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Speaker 1: Hello there, Welcome to the Thursday edition of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you a quick rundown of where we're going first.

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Speaker 1: I've got a few stories that I feel like me,

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Speaker 1: some framing, reframing, a few ways that I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: him that I think you ought to be thinking about him.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to are we about to go to

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Speaker 1: war with Iran? All things Texas, Senate, we are inside

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Speaker 1: of two weeks. This is There are a lot of

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Speaker 1: moving parts here. I also want to spend a few

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Speaker 1: minutes on the h on the back and forth about

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Speaker 1: the FCC equal time and all of that business with Colbert,

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Speaker 1: and then I want to get to two stories that

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Speaker 1: are way under the radar but epitomize I think what's

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Speaker 1: wrong with our politics at the moment. Collectively. One has

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Speaker 1: to do with crypto and a warning from Chuck Schumer

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Speaker 1: to Democratic senators on you know, basically he's basically admitting

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Speaker 1: principles are for sale, and I'll get to where he's

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Speaker 1: going there. It all has to do with fear of

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Speaker 1: crypto money. And then finally, you know what happens when

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Speaker 1: local news dies in darkness. It's a little tribute to

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post and the fact that we have a

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Speaker 1: messed up situation involving a burs sewer pipe where there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of finger pointing, but what we don't have

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Speaker 1: is a reliable news organization to focus and cover this thing.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Jeff Bezos. My guest today mister George Conway.

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Speaker 1: You may know him from the resistance wing of first

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party. Now he is a registered Democrat and

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Speaker 1: running as a Democrat for Congress on the island of Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: He is running in the twelfth Congressional district there essentially

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Speaker 1: the Jerry Nadler seat, which is now both the Upper

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Speaker 1: West and the Upper East. It used to be the

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Speaker 1: Upper West side ed Stone Upper East Side had its own,

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Speaker 1: but they reconfigured it Upper West and Upper Easter together.

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Speaker 1: And he's running on a very explicit platform of I'm

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Speaker 1: running to get there and impeach him, and then to

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Speaker 1: essentially once he's once Trump is out of office, codify

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Speaker 1: important aspects of the rule of law, essentially try to

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Speaker 1: jump start Congress to accepting the premise that they are

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Speaker 1: the first article of the US Constitution. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: do not put down your phone, do not hit pause.

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Speaker 1: The Conway conversation is everything you might expect it to

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Speaker 1: be and more. I might have to put an explicit

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Speaker 1: rating on it. You know, there is one F word

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Speaker 1: that he was more afraid to say than the other

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Speaker 1: F word, and I'll let you decide what that is. Then,

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Speaker 1: of course we'll do a few questions, and I want

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Speaker 1: to get at the issue of unregulated sports gambling in

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Speaker 1: this country and how we're devolving even quicker thanks to

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Speaker 1: an aggressively las a fair effects possib to be federal government.

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Speaker 1: But let me begin with a question frankly, that I

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Speaker 1: woke up to from a variety of just friends. These

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Speaker 1: are not your normal. This wasn't just sort of the

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Speaker 1: cable booker question of the day or the podcast question

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Speaker 1: of the day. Was in response to watching what we've

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Speaker 1: seen overnight, this massive moving of military personnel, artillery, fighter jets,

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Speaker 1: aircraft carriers to the Middle East. Are we about to

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Speaker 1: go to war with Iran? Well, I don't think any

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Speaker 1: of us have an answer to that question, other than

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Speaker 1: I think, to quote Donald Trump, our current president, I

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Speaker 1: guess we have to stay tuned. I think the better

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Speaker 1: way to frame this is that it I expect that

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Speaker 1: we are drifting into something without fully admitting it, which,

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Speaker 1: of course, you know should should be a lot more

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Speaker 1: concerned about unintended consequences here than we are, because we

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Speaker 1: may end up essentially launching some sort of military campaign

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Speaker 1: against Iran without any conversation with Congress. And I actually

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Speaker 1: think Congress would probably give him some authority if he

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Speaker 1: asked for it. Iran is not unpopular in Congress. I

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Speaker 1: think you might even get some bipartisan votes for it.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that that isn't happening, that there isn't

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Speaker 1: and this is this is some military adventurism. Perhaps, So

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Speaker 1: let me explain why I think why people are nervous

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Speaker 1: about this, and it feels like it feels like sometime

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Speaker 1: this weekend I may come back on and we may

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Speaker 1: talk about what are the consequences there, because there're Because

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Speaker 1: here's the situation. We have moved so much of our

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Speaker 1: military assets to the Middle East. It doesn't appear we're

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Speaker 1: looking at something that's quick. We're looking at something that

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Speaker 1: could be not so quick. So some of the details here.

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Speaker 1: We have two carrier strike groups there.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The USS Abraham Lincoln has been in the Arabian Sea

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Speaker 1: for some time. We've now had the USS Gerald R. Ford,

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Speaker 1: which is the largest worship in the world, been redirected

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Speaker 1: to also join the Lincoln in the region. We've moved

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Speaker 1: over one hundred military aircraft in recent days. Sixteens have

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Speaker 1: thirty five F twenty two's, We've moved tankers, surveillance aircraft. Look,

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Speaker 1: these are things that you're doing if you're prepared, preparing

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Speaker 1: for sustained operations. Again, this is not a quick strike.

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Speaker 1: This is not supporting Israel getting rid of Iran's nuclear

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Speaker 1: weapons or attempting to get rid of their nuclear laboratories

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Speaker 1: and things like that. So something there seems to be

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Speaker 1: a bigger plane here than you know. I'm like, hey, Congress,

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Speaker 1: are you going to ask for a briefing? Hello, are

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Speaker 1: you going to try to get some information here? Because

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Speaker 1: we're all lacking a lot of information. But it is

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Speaker 1: worth noting that you've had some blind quotes that said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'd think twice about flying in the region this weekend.

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Speaker 1: I know some people have been warned about that that

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Speaker 1: live in Israel. You know, be careful of your flight

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Speaker 1: plans this weekend. You could see some airspace get shut down.

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Speaker 1: So it's something afoot, and if so, what is it. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Iran has been conducting live fire navy drills. They partially

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Speaker 1: closed the straight o or moves for these exercises, and

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Leader has been threatening American carriers. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is all posturing, right, maybe this is gunboat diplomacy,

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Speaker 1: because we do have these indirect talks right now in

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Speaker 1: Geneva on some sort of nuclear deal. The Vice President

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Speaker 1: went out there and publicly claimed that progress incremental, but

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Speaker 1: progress was made, even even though he admitted that Iran

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Speaker 1: has not accepted what the US redlines are in their

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Speaker 1: nuclear program. But you have Iran's foreign minister calling the

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Speaker 1: toxic constructive and that both sides are agreed unquote guiding principles,

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Speaker 1: and apparently we are in a two week This is

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Speaker 1: where it's confusing, because if you just follow the Geneva talks,

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Speaker 1: we're in a two week window for Tyran to offer

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Speaker 1: some detailed proposals, and yet we have moved all of

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Speaker 1: these military assets into the region for something that appears

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Speaker 1: to be more imminent than in the next two weeks. Now,

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Speaker 1: you throw two weeks out there. For those of you

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Speaker 1: Trumpologists out there, two weeks is a is a code

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Speaker 1: word because it's it's a presidential crutch. When Trump says

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Speaker 1: two weeks, you know that it's meaningless, that it's a punt,

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Speaker 1: that it's you know, he wants two weeks before he

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Speaker 1: has to deal with this issue again. That's really what

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Speaker 1: he's saying. The question is whether what do these two

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Speaker 1: weeks mean he is There have been head fakes in

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Speaker 1: the past of no, we're still talking, and then the

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Speaker 1: bombs were dropping, and we know the President enjoys sort

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Speaker 1: of trying to do head fakes because they're so they're

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Speaker 1: more obst sessed about media leaks than they are about

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Speaker 1: what's in the best interest of America's national security. But

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Speaker 1: I digress. So that's the question. Now, if this is

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Speaker 1: what it looks like and what we would say it

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Speaker 1: looks like under a normal administration, then this would we

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Speaker 1: would probably call this coercive diplomacy. Right, move the carrier,

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Speaker 1: squeeze the regimes, see if you can get a deal.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you could argue that Trump they might

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Speaker 1: fear a threat from Trump since Trump has dropped bombs

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Speaker 1: on Iran, since Trump did order the killing of Solimany,

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Speaker 1: so you can't refer to him as taco man when

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Speaker 1: it comes to Iran. He didn't always chicken out when

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Speaker 1: it came to quote threats to Iran, which means, though,

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Speaker 1: does that mean he has room to back down here

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Speaker 1: or does that mean we are likely about to escalating

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Speaker 1: even further? And what is the rationale? Are we putting

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Speaker 1: these folks in the region to make sure they don't

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Speaker 1: attack their own people again, and if they do, we're coming,

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Speaker 1: then we're going to do that. You know, the President

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Speaker 1: rhetorically said that he had the protesters back at this point,

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Speaker 1: that he has not had their back now as far

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Speaker 1: as America's national interests are concerned, perhaps that was the

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Speaker 1: right call, that maybe that wasn't the right time. If

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Speaker 1: you're if the goal is regime changed, but that is

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Speaker 1: the goal here. I don't think anybody thinks keeping the

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Speaker 1: regime in place is the goal. I don't think if

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Speaker 1: the Iranians, I'm sure, and they'd be idiots if they

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Speaker 1: believe that they somehow so are the Iranians simply trying

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Speaker 1: to buy time to see if they can fortify themselves

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Speaker 1: against an attack. I'm skeptical that they can do that.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe they look at what happened in Venezuela and

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Speaker 1: see that Donald Trump is not serious about a democracy

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Speaker 1: and that if you capitulate enough and you give him

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Speaker 1: control of an important asset, you know, maybe they think

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Speaker 1: give him control of some of the Iranian oil business

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Speaker 1: and that Trump will back off. I know that sounds absurd,

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Speaker 1: but is it right? Is that totally out of the

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Speaker 1: realm of possibility, And yet at the same time, when

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Speaker 1: you've moved this many assets, it's hard to believe you're

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Speaker 1: not going to do something, and in fact, this is

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Speaker 1: where history. He is on the side of some sort

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Speaker 1: of military hot military intervention is coming. The question is

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Speaker 1: what does it look like? And and I guess I

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Speaker 1: would say, yeah, it's not miss right, But let's we've

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Speaker 1: been here before, right. Iraq began as inspectors and pressure,

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Speaker 1: and then we went in when when we wanted to

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Speaker 1: make the point that no, we were going to you

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Speaker 1: didn't accept these terms, there would be consequences. Libya, of course,

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Speaker 1: was a limited intervention, that's how it started. Afghanistan began

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Speaker 1: as targeted conter terrorism. So you know, this is why

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Speaker 1: I think there's going to be plenty of skeptical people

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Speaker 1: and write about what's happening here in Iran, because America

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Speaker 1: has a history of incremental escalation that feels tactical in

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Speaker 1: the moment, like maybe we're just trying to squeeze for

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Speaker 1: a deal or maybe we're trying to help the protesters,

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Speaker 1: and then in hindsight it's not so strategic, and then

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Speaker 1: we're caught up in something and the minute and if

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Speaker 1: we get involved in regime change, then we own it, right,

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Speaker 1: and we've got to help Iran build what a new

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Speaker 1: government is going to look like. That's what we're in

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Speaker 1: the middle of here with Venezuela, which I think is

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Speaker 1: kind of a potential disaster when you're dealing with you know,

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Speaker 1: just because the authoritarian is agreeing to all your terms

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Speaker 1: in the moment doesn't mean they're an ally. But I

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Speaker 1: fear we're starting to treat the Venezuela viceroy there as

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Speaker 1: some sort of of coerced ally because she's doing everything

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Speaker 1: he wants her to do in the moment. Is that

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Speaker 1: the situation that we're willing to take over in Iran

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Speaker 1: and if we strike, what if we don't get rid

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Speaker 1: of the regime, then what and then do you cut

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Speaker 1: a deal? I mean? So my point is is that

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Speaker 1: I I will be surprised if we back down. It

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Speaker 1: feels as if we're we've almost gone too far to

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Speaker 1: back down now without it being perhaps weakening our influence

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Speaker 1: and position within the region. Right now, we have in

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Speaker 1: some ways a very you know, we're extraordinarily influential with

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Speaker 1: our with the coercive measures that he's been using of late,

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Speaker 1: as well as the financial deals he's cut with the

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Speaker 1: Gulf States. So there's no doubt there is a there

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Speaker 1: is a part I think of Trump that loves sort

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Speaker 1: of how this region more than any other in the world,

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Speaker 1: is willing to be transactional, which of course is where

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Speaker 1: Trump wants to be in general, with sort of any

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Speaker 1: situation he's in. But I am so to go back

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Speaker 1: to end on this topic where I started. Are we

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Speaker 1: about to go to war with Iran? I see more

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Speaker 1: scenarios that indicate military escalation is more likely than I

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Speaker 1: see scenarios where we're not going to do anything at all?

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Speaker 1: Are we really? Is Donald Trump going to be the

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Speaker 1: guy to cut now? Is this really we're supposed to

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Speaker 1: assume this is a Nixon to China moment. Donald Trump's

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Speaker 1: going to cut a nuclear deal with the Iranian Supreme Leader,

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Speaker 1: And is the Iranian Supreme Leader going to suddenly be

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Speaker 1: his best friend? The way this thug is in Venezuela

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Speaker 1: now that he put into office, So it is I

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Speaker 1: think we have a lot more on the line here

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Speaker 1: than then we fully appreciate. But it does feel like

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Speaker 1: we've that's the point of no return, So we're going

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Speaker 1: to intervene again militarily in Iran. The unintended consequences of this.

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Speaker 1: If you've been a listener of this podcast. Over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of months, I've gone through them a lot.

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Speaker 1: Our interventions in Iran have all gone horribly long term. Right.

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Speaker 1: The reason arguably that there is an ayatola there in

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Speaker 1: the first place is because of how supportive we were

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Speaker 1: of a of an authoritarian regime that certainly was pro West,

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Speaker 1: but the way they treated their people wasn't necessarily synonymous

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Speaker 1: with the values of the West. So it's it's troubling.

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Speaker 1: And look, I can't wait for a small, d democratic Iran.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be an amazing there's an amazing opportunity here.

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Speaker 1: We should do whatever we can to support democracy in

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Speaker 1: Iran and to support those people that want democracy. But

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Speaker 1: we better be careful and how well we think we

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Speaker 1: can dictate outcomes. Every time we've tried to dictate an

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Speaker 1: let me move domestically here to the You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: a political junkie at heart, and there is this Texas

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Speaker 1: Senate race is quickly becoming an all timer to me.

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Speaker 1: When you've got you know, let's see what happens in November.

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Speaker 1: But my goodness, you've got to incredibly contentious primaries that

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Speaker 1: have developed on the Republican side and the Democratic side.

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Speaker 1: You have a ton of money, you have all sorts

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Speaker 1: of great sort of soap opera type plot twists, everything

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Speaker 1: that you've wanted if you're just a consumer of a

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Speaker 1: great political story and fascinating political tactics, campaigns, all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. Texas has everything. And guess what, We're going

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Speaker 1: to have a runoff at least in one of these primaries.

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Speaker 1: So you know, we're going to get more cow bell

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Speaker 1: going at least a Memorial Day. And as a consumer

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Speaker 1: of campaign politics, that's a lot more popcorn. We're going

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Speaker 1: to have to pot pop to enjoy this one. But

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Speaker 1: let's get into some things, because look, I want to

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Speaker 1: get into the FCC issue in Colbert in a minute.

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Speaker 1: But there's a bigger story developing in Texas that I

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Speaker 1: think is part of a larger trend that I think

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Speaker 1: is about to develop. The two candidates that are spending

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Speaker 1: the most money are currently not leading in the polls,

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Speaker 1: John Cornyn and James Tollerico. Now the polling on the

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Speaker 1: Democratic side, there's you know, what we've seen publicly, you

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Speaker 1: know has been, but there's been. You know, it seems

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Speaker 1: like Jasmine. It's very close, but I've seen more. I know,

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Speaker 1: I've seen more polls with crock A ahead lately than

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Speaker 1: i've seen with Tallarico ahead. But the financial gap between

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Speaker 1: the two is very lopsided, not as lopsided as Corny Paxton.

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Speaker 1: My goodness, Right Paxton has withstood sixty million dollars dropped

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Speaker 1: on his head. Right this Senate John with John Thune

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Speaker 1: controls the Senate. Republican essentially, Campaign Kitty has done everything

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Speaker 1: they can to stop Ken Paxton because they view Ken

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Speaker 1: Paxton as unelectable, and they've said so many things. It

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Speaker 1: may be sort of they may have. They've made the

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Speaker 1: case so well that Paxton is ethically and morally unfit

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Speaker 1: to serve an office, let alone in the United States Senate.

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Speaker 1: That I don't know how the party comes back to

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Speaker 1: trying to help support him. They will, because we know

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Speaker 1: how power is the most important currency in Washington, not

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Speaker 1: your morals or your ethics, and they will close their

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Speaker 1: eyes and support him if Paxton ends up the Republican nominee.

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Speaker 1: But they have spent sixty million dollars right They have

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Speaker 1: hit him with ads on the fact that he was

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Speaker 1: impeached in the Texas House but then acquitted in the

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Speaker 1: Texas Senate, which also included his wife. Then there was

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Speaker 1: the high profile divorce where his wife publicly said she

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Speaker 1: was divorcing on biblical grounds, essentially saying he committed adultery,

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Speaker 1: he cheated, and all sorts of financial scandals that actually

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Speaker 1: fed into the impeachment. They these attack ads. They've hit

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Speaker 1: Paxton all over the place, and he's still leading. He

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Speaker 1: barely has aired any ads, And in fact, the first

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Speaker 1: ad that I saw was him just putting the other

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Speaker 1: cuts of Donald Trump praising him over the years, so

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Speaker 1: implying that he has Trump's endorsement. We know that Trump

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Speaker 1: right now has said he's for all of the three candidates,

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Speaker 1: including the Congressman Wesley Hunt, but a few observations here

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Speaker 1: on this money issue and the fact that you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a point, there's a point where look, money matters,

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Speaker 1: but there's diminishing returns the more money you drop on something,

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Speaker 1: especially if you especially if the propose, if the side

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Speaker 1: you're trying to help isn't very popular, right, And John

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Speaker 1: Cornyn's not very popular, right. He's not popular at the

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Speaker 1: base of the Republican Party, and he's certainly not popular

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Speaker 1: with swing voters in the middle. They sort of they

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Speaker 1: certainly like him better than they like Paxton, but he

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Speaker 1: himself is not popular. So I think that's I think

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Speaker 1: that explains why Paxton. What these ads have done is

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Speaker 1: Paxton has not been able to grow any support. His

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Speaker 1: negatives continue to rise, but it is not accrue to

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Speaker 1: the benefit of Cornan. If anything, what we've seen is

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Speaker 1: Paxton's numbers have gotten worse in general election matchups. So

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Speaker 1: the irony to this is that the Senate Republicans have

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Speaker 1: essentially made Paxton even more unelectable in the general election.

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Speaker 1: But it is not persuaded Republican primary voters that he's

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Speaker 1: so unelectable they should abandon him. But they've made him

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Speaker 1: more unelectable. They have both Crockett and Talla Erico regularly

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Speaker 1: now lead Paxton in matchups across the board. That is

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Speaker 1: less to do with their candidacies and more to do

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Speaker 1: with how much negative ads have been dropped on Paxton already.

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Speaker 1: I mean, normally, this is what makes this Texas Senate

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Speaker 1: seat so appetizing for Democrats as a pickup. Normally, when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to pick off a seat, if you were,

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Speaker 1: you know, the National Party or the Senate Committee is

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Speaker 1: going to spend a bunch of money to try to

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Speaker 1: soften up the you know, especially during these primary phases.

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Speaker 1: But you actually are getting the Senate Democrats are getting

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Speaker 1: help from Senate Republicans and essentially softening up the likely

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Speaker 1: Republican nominee going forward. And I think that that's what

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Speaker 1: this money has done. It. You know, we saw sort

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Speaker 1: of a lesser extent of this, but like you know,

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Speaker 1: APAC spent a bunch of money to trying to defeat

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Speaker 1: a specific candidate in New Jersey. They successfully made sure

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Speaker 1: that candidate didn't win that special election den primary. But

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Speaker 1: the candidate that ended up benefiting was not the candidate

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Speaker 1: that Apak preferred. It was another candidate who actually was

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Speaker 1: arguably further further away from apax position than Tom mon Alawski,

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Speaker 1: the former member of Congress that they were that they

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Speaker 1: were trying to stop in the primary. So when you

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Speaker 1: you know, you never know the unintended consequences on negative

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Speaker 1: ads sometimes and who it benefits definitely hurts the candidate

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Speaker 1: you're going after. Doesn't always accrue to the benefit of

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Speaker 1: the candidate you're hoping to help. And what has happened

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Speaker 1: is Cornyn has just not you know, there's been more

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Speaker 1: negatives on Paxton than trying to reassure Republicans that Cornyn

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Speaker 1: is one of them. I guess it's basically the issue.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's welcome to the vice

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Speaker 1: grip of the Trump Republican controlled Republican Party. Right. John

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Speaker 1: Cornyn is a Bush Republican. John corn is a Romney Republican.

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Speaker 1: John Corner is a McConnell Republican. John Cornyn is not

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Speaker 1: a Trump Republican. And you know who knows it, Republican

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Speaker 1: primary voters. And I think that's what we've seen here.

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Speaker 1: Let's see if he gets into the runof I suspect

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Speaker 1: he will. I assume Wesley Hunt does not have the

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Speaker 1: infrastructure to drive turn out to early vote. Corn's been

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Speaker 1: on the ballot so many times, Paxton's been on the

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Speaker 1: ballot a number of times. Both of them know how

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Speaker 1: the early vote works, both of them know how to

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Speaker 1: bank votes. So I suspect that you'll actually see Hunt

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Speaker 1: underperform his poll numbers. You know, if he's polling right

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Speaker 1: now in the mid to low twenties, if you told

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Speaker 1: me he ended up at seventeen or eighteen, it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: surprise me. What's the path for cornan and fifty percent

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Speaker 1: plus one? Especially, you know, we remember a Republican primary

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Speaker 1: about a decade ago with that featured Thad Cochrane against

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Speaker 1: somebody on the right. Well, Thad Cochrane had the benefit

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Speaker 1: of some Democrats willing to go into the Republican Party

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Speaker 1: to prop him up, and he was able to survive

428
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: in a runoff in a primary because you know, the

429
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: part of it was Democrats didn't expect to, you know,

430
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: have a competitive candidate. This is a different situation, and

431
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: it's I think it's pretty clear that all of this

432
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: money on Paxton has certainly heard Paxton, but it has

433
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: been it is it has had a bigger impact on

434
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: him as a job or election candidate, and it's had

435
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: a very limited impact on him as a primary candidate.

436
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: And in defense of the NRSC and the and the

437
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: Senate Republican packs that have been trying to stop Paxton,

438
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's funny, you know, they it's easy

439
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: to say now they've they've got the wrong messaging. Obviously

440
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: they got the wrong messaging because it's not work.

441
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: It.

442
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: Paxton has some sort of Trumpian tefla. And it may

443
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: be that it for Republican primary voters to understand how

444
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: awful Paxton could be for them, they probably have to

445
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: lose the election before they sober up on this. But

446
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 1: we'll see. Now let's go to the Democratic side and

447
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: the and the interview that everybody has heard about. Now,

448
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: if you were a political jung of you listen to

449
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 1: this podcast, I know you know the story. James tollerco

450
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: goes on Colbert, we're about two weeks for the primary.

451
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: In the scheduled interview, so I want to get to

452
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: that in a minute. The interview somehow gets pulled and

453
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: there's in and what's interesting here, by the way, and

454
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: also a reminder of our changing media landscape in another

455
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: era if showing up on Colbert and Tallerico's hope was

456
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: to go there on the first day of early voting

457
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: to sort of, you know, maximize attention for his campaign.

458
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: Having that interview polled would have been devastating. But instead, right,

459
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: they turned it into a controversy and then you could

460
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: get a bootleg version of it on YouTube, and then

461
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: suddenly it gets more views on YouTube than it ever

462
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: would have gotten on legacy television in the first place.

463
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: Oh and he got to race two an ff million

464
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: dollars by claiming that this is the interview Donald Trump

465
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: didn't want you to see. But I'm going to get

466
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: to that in a minute. Boyd reminder that just grievance

467
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: is a great fundraising tool left or right, obviously, and

468
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: we also are living in a political ecosystem that we're

469
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: perceived censorship is actually more powerful than the airtime itself.

470
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: Right without the with out the victimhood of the censorship,

471
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: this would have actually gone. It would have been a

472
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: nothing burger. But it does lead me to this next

473
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle. And I want to be very

474
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: careful here. Let's talk about the equal time rule. I'm

475
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: very familiar with it. I've had to deal with it

476
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: when I was at NBC, and it is all about

477
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: whether your show is considered on the news side or

478
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: the entertainment side. So let me get it to it.

479
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: So let's start with this. Here's the equal time room,

480
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: section three fifteen A of the Communications Act of nineteen

481
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: thirty four. And by the way, yes, all of these

482
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: rules are out outdated. I know this. Okay, that's a

483
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: summary judgment. As my friend George Conway will say, those

484
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: are accepted facts. We got it. But at the moment,

485
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: this is the policy, and Section three fifteen A of

486
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four says that if

487
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: a broadcast station gives airtime to a legally call candidate,

488
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: it must afford equal opportunities to other candidates for that office.

489
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: Here are the caveats. It applies to broadcast licenses only,

490
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: so not to anything on anything that's called cable or

491
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: any digital platforms like YouTube. It applies to candidates, not packs.

492
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: And there are exemptions for bonafide newscasts, bona fide news interviews, documentaries,

493
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: and on the spot coverage. It's why a show like

494
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: The View, which sits under the News division at ABC,

495
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: can qualify for those exemptions. Late night entertainment shows don't

496
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: automatically qualify for that protection because they're not under the

497
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: news umbrella. At most of these news stations, they are

498
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: under the entertainment umbrella. And usually, and this matters, equal

499
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: Time issues are triggered by a candidate complaint, not by

500
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: the regulators proactively nudging a network. So this is where

501
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just be honest here. I don't I don't

502
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: know if I'm getting the full story out of Colbert

503
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: or out of CBS. I feel like the both sides

504
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: are cherry picking rather than getting at the core issue here,

505
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: So let me get there. So when this tallar Rico

506
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: segment gets pulled and the explanation is legal caution around

507
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: equal time, I get how immediately grievance filled the vacuum

508
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: and it became an opportunity. So was it censorship? Was

509
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: it lawyers being cautious? Was it someone gaining the narrative? Well, sadly,

510
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: in this era it doesn't matter because grievance is the

511
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: currency and both parties know how to spend it. But

512
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: do keep in mind that here's what I don't understand

513
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: and why I'm not jumping on anything here, But I'll

514
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: tell you who the real loser is here, and it's

515
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: Jasmine Crockett. And let me explain. So, like I said,

516
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: normally this equal time provisions are triggered when a candidate complains,

517
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: the FCC looks into it, lawyers end up. So I've

518
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: been on this side Saturday Night Live. And by the way,

519
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: timing of win an election and some of this is

520
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: has to do with that. Had Jazz had the Talla

521
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: Rico interview aired, and Jasmine Crockett and or her and

522
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: there's another candidate on the Democratic ballot went to CBS

523
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: and said, hey, we won equal time. I know what

524
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: the CBS lawyers, the smart lawyers would have said, Okay,

525
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: we will give you the length of the segment was this,

526
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: we will give you airtime after eleven thirty at night

527
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: or I guess Central time after ten thirty at night,

528
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: And maybe it would have been a you know, they

529
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: could count up the minutes of the interview itself, you know,

530
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: eight minutes, ten minutes, and you get ten minutes on

531
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: the CBS affiliates in the state of Texas. So for instance,

532
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: I believe sometime between Iowa and South Carolina, memory served

533
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: Saturdaynight Live had some I can't remember which candidate was,

534
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: had a major candidate do a pop in. I think

535
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: it was on the Republican side. Somebody filed for equal

536
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: time provisions, and essentially to comply with the FCC, NBC

537
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: agreed to give five minutes on its network affiliates in.

538
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: I think it was the state of South Carolina because

539
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: that was the next primary up. It was not you

540
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: were not given equal time across the country itself, just

541
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: in the areas where their voters were going to go

542
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: to the polls. This is why it would have just

543
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: applied to the state of Texas. So here are the

544
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: questions I have that we don't have good answers for,

545
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: because it does feel as if Here's what we don't know.

546
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: Was Barry Wise instructed CBS lawyers trying to essentially spook

547
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: Colbert from even putting on Tylerrico and they just wanted

548
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: to keep out of this. Did Colbert only here they're

549
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: trying to stop me from putting on Tolerrico? Screw them,

550
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: God damn it. You know this equal times I've had

551
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: Jasmin Krockett on and he didn't listen to the details, right,

552
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know the answer to these things,

553
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: and I'd like more clarity here. It feels like there

554
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: were a lot of people interested in hurrying up and

555
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 1: pointing fingers than getting at to okay, did anybody file

556
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: a grievance here? Did any candidate ask for equal time?

557
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: You know? Did Colbert and tal Rico? Were they just

558
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: simply looking to for a moment. Did they stumble into something?

559
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: Because now Colbert has done more to help taal Rico's

560
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: primary campaign than simply airing the interview themselves. So, like

561
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: I said, the loser here is Jasmine Crockett because taal

562
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: Rico has been trailing in the polls. Tall Rico has

563
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: been not been as good of a candidate since Crockett

564
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: got into the race. We've seen multiple polls show that

565
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: Crockett is no, you know, more or less of a

566
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: threat to winning that Senate seat in a general election. Right.

567
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: The perception is she can't she's going to do worse

568
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: than tall Rico in a general election, but there's no

569
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: polling evidence to back that up. And she's leading the

570
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: primers and I'm running tw different races, right, and there's

571
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: been this fumble that Taller Rico got himself into where

572
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: he seemed to trap bad mouth, you know, sort of

573
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: knock the candidacy of Colin all Red. But he used

574
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: you know, he used Colin all Redd's identity in his

575
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: way of sort of putting down his candidacy. And he

576
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: seemed to imply that if Jasmin Crockett had already been

577
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: in the race, he wouldn't have run that race. Now

578
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: you've heard me say a million times, I'm convinced tall

579
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: Rico was never thinking about running for Senate, but a

580
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: bunch of consultants out of Washington in New York talked

581
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: him into it and begged him to do it, saying,

582
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: this is a race you can win. You can't win

583
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: the governor's race. What would have been in the best

584
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: interest of the party probably would have been tall Rico

585
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: running for governor and letting either all Read or Crockett

586
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: run for Senate because ultimately it you know, well, it

587
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: all depends on what your focus is. Do you really

588
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: think you can win that Senate seat or do you

589
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: really want to rebuild the Democratic Party in Texas. Maybe

590
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: you could have done both at the same time. But

591
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 1: I will tell you this, the sum total of this

592
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: controversy has been it is a bigger boon, and in

593
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: some ways Colbert overreaction perhaps or aggressive reaction. That was

594
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: the biggest in kind contribution he could have made to

595
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: James Tollerico's primary campaign. So I wouldn't be shocked if

596
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: a lot of Crockett folks are quietly fuming at this,

597
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: fuming at Colbert, upset about the timing. After all, Colbert

598
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: was willing to put him on at a critical moment

599
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: in his campaign, at the start of early voting. So

600
00:36:54,640 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: it's let's just say, like I said, I'd like I'd

601
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: like more on this story. I'm very aware of how

602
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: and again, and the other thing this is exposed is

603
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: these equal time rules are just outdated, silly and frankly

604
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: need to go away. This episode of the Chuck Podcast

605
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Speaker 1: that came across in deal Book, the Andrew Russorkin newsletter

642
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 1: from The New York Times today. I was an item

643
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: on Wednesday that talked about how very quietly Chuck Schumer's

644
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: been begging Senate Democrats to find a way to get

645
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: to crypto's, to the crypto industry's side on these on this,

646
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: you know, in the stable coin bill. And he basically said, Hey,

647
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: you're the folks around a super packed network called fair Shake,

648
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: a pro crypto network of donors and its affiliates have

649
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety three million, and you better just

650
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: get in line or they're going to financially destroy you.

651
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: And it was like, Wow, this isn't lobbying anymore. This

652
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: is financial coercion, is this is mob This is a

653
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: mob sort of a TV mobster like tactic. Let me explain.

654
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: So fair Shake has one hundred has this war chest

655
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: of one hundred and ninety three million dollars. Right, that's

656
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: not just influence money, right, that's electoral air superiority money.

657
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: And here's the thing Chuck Schumer has concluded, and some

658
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: Democratic strategists have concluded that be and Shared Brown is

659
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: the one who I think is told said that if

660
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't for the crypto pro crypto money that Bernie

661
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: Moreno got in Ohio, that Shared Brown would have could

662
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: have won that center race. But Crypto decided that Shared

663
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: Brown was an enemy of crypto and they were going

664
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: to do whatever it took, and that in some ways

665
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: Crypto wanted to use Shared Brown as an example to

666
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: anybody else that wanted to get in their way about regulation.

667
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: So Shared Brown, who is one of the most vocal

668
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: skeptics of the crypto industry when he was in the

669
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: US Senate, loses after tens of millions of dollars flood

670
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: that race. So the lesson that Chuck Schumer took away

671
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 1: was the following if you cross the industry, you may

672
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: not survive politically. So here we are in twenty twenty

673
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: six and a fair Shake affiliate announces right now, they've

674
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 1: put out they have a one point five million dollar

675
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: effort against a Democratic and coom congressman named Al Green,

676
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: and it's explicitly tied because he voted against crypto legislation

677
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: that the super pac wanted to see pass. So they're

678
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: going to make sure they primary anybody that votes against them,

679
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: because they want to prove to Washington that they, you know,

680
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: their money isn't just about thanking people that help them.

681
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: Their money will punish the those that don't. In a

682
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: healthy system, a party leader whips for votes. But in

683
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: this system, at the moment, party leaders are essentially been

684
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: coerced by a super pack to then tell their own members, hey,

685
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: we can't protect you from these guys. If you've got

686
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: principles and you want to stand up to them, good luck.

687
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: They're going to beat the living daylight out of you.

688
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: So they're basically saying, just find a way to support this.

689
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: It's deterrence. And what's scary is that this is now,

690
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what Silicon Valley has figured out

691
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: and there's so much money. This is why we're going

692
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: to have to figure out a better way to deal

693
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: with money in politics, because if you can make dissent

694
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: too expensive, you don't have to win a policy argument anymore.

695
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: All you have to do is raise enough money to

696
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: threaten those that may get in your way. And if

697
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: people care more about staying in office than doing something

698
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: about then you know they shouldn't be there in the

699
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: first place. So when Chuck Schumer flips on this and

700
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: says Crypto is here to stay, we need to get

701
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: it right, some people wouldn't say that was a corruption,

702
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: that that's just reaction. He's been persuaded. Has he been

703
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: persuaded because he now is convinced that this is a

704
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: good financial instrument, or has he been persuaded because there's

705
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: so much goddamn money got dropped on Shared Brown's head

706
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: that and all Chuck Schumer cares. You know that hey

707
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: ends justifies the means, and Crypto's not the fight worth

708
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: having in the moment, So screw it. I'll take their

709
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: money and we'll worry about it later. Wow, we have

710
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: a broken this again. And look, I am a cryptoskeptic.

711
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: I've made that clear. I think we you know, it's

712
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: just like anything. I know, you let something go without

713
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: any regulation, and then it gets too big, and then

714
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: you're trying to put regulation in. And then suddenly the

715
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: industry that grew out of nowhere without any guard rails

716
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: is going, well, we don't want any guard rails, and

717
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: so they and they already have accumulated. And all they're

718
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: trying to do is get the government essentially to legalize

719
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: their wealth a you know, a valuation that not everybody

720
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: agrees is worth a thing. But they have now lobbied

721
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: the government to essentially invent this regulatory structure in order

722
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: to give credence to said system. And there are people

723
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: who are skeptics of this. And the Senate Democratic leader

724
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: is saying that when an opponent has enough money, do

725
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: not oppose them anymore, find a way to appease them.

726
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: Is that what you want in your elected leadership. It

727
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: is talk about a reminder that money has too much

728
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: influence and how weak the leadership of the Democratic Party

729
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 1: has become. Finally, just a little grace note I sort

730
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: of set it up top, but before we get to

731
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: George Conway, and it's you know, it's an outrage filled interview.

732
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: But this entire there's two things that sort of chat

733
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: my ass about this. If you've read anything about what's

734
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: happening locally here with this burst sewer situation with the Potomac,

735
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: and when you drive over the American Legion Bridge and

736
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: four five you can now smell thanks because now you

737
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: know the ice is melting, so you know it's been

738
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: there a while. And trust me, it's gross to pick

739
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: up the the dog poop in my own backyard with

740
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: the melting ice. Imagine a burst sewer pipe, right, and

741
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: the smell and all of that. But there's two things

742
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: that really sort of show what's wrong, you know that

743
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: we've got we've got some problems to fix. One is

744
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: we've gotten a president who's who never wants to help first,

745
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: and he wants to blame somebody else. Look, this is

746
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: one of those situations where there may be an entity

747
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: to blame. How about fix the fucking problem first. How

748
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: about everybody pick up a shovel, mister president, how about

749
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: you get your EPA and you get Look, just offer

750
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,720
Speaker 1: a hand and help your fellow Americans. Don't instead say

751
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,760
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna help. I'm not gonna do shit until

752
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: you come begging for my help and admit it's your fault.

753
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: It just this is a continuation. This administration, more than

754
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: any other in my lifetime, has wanted a condition helping

755
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: Americans based on political blame. Whether you know FEMA has

756
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: been weaponized this way. I've seen. I saw it happen

757
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: in Florida when when Governor DeSantis refused to go deal

758
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: with flooding issues Broward County because it was a blue area.

759
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: We cannot deal with disasters based on politics. And you

760
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: know you'll reap what you sew. You wouldn't want the

761
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 1: other party to do this to your community. And you've

762
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: seen the anger where people thought, and there was some

763
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: evidence that a few people didn't help people in that

764
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: north in North Carolina because they thought, Oh, they're magot people.

765
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: They're not gonna want they're gonna be afraid of FEMA,

766
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 1: they're not going to like me. That's just as bad

767
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: not offering potential help there. Then you, mister President, and others,

768
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: trying to point fingers for a situation that may have

769
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: a lot of fingerprints and who's to blame here? But

770
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 1: can we not worry about the blame game in the moment,

771
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 1: and can we just fix the problem. There's a federal issue,

772
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: there's state issues, there's city issues, there's EPA issues, there's infrastructure,

773
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of issues. There's certainly plenty of bureaucratic

774
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: finger pointing, but stop the finger pointing, get off your ass,

775
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: and just fix the goddamn thing. Rant two has to

776
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: do with the impossibility to find out what the hell

777
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: is going on with this situation. We used to have

778
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: a very powerful local regional paper here called The Washington Post.

779
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: They have decided to no longer be a major news

780
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: organization and they've decided to just be a sort of

781
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: trade publication covering Congress in national politics. God bless him,

782
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,439
Speaker 1: good luck with that business strategy. But it has really

783
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: been difficult to piece together, as as just a simple resident,

784
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: to try to figure out what's the hold up, what's

785
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: the break here, you know, And it's because we don't

786
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: have a devoted news organization trying to, you know, help

787
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: all of us in this community live our lives. So

788
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: this is a case where local news dies in darkness.

789
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: Thank you Jeff Bezos and Will Lewis for very early

790
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: on showing us how valuable local news can be and

791
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: what happens when you don't have an outlet anymore to

792
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 1: figure out what's going on. All I literally, we're all

793
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: just trading, whether it's on next door Arlington now Montgomery County. Look,

794
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people trying to piece things together,

795
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: and we're trying to figure out what's happening. But it's

796
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: a shame we don't have a local news organization like

797
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 1: the Washington Post focused on a story like this anymore.

798
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: All right, with that, let's sneak in a break. Let's

799
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: get to get to George Conway on the other side.

800
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,359
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00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: com slash chuck. Location. Times may vary and the rates

854
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: themselves may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance

855
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: is something you should really think about, especially if you've

856
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: got a growing family. So joining me now. As everybody knows,

857
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: I enjoy putting on people that are running for office.

858
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: This is no just ordinary candidates. Somebody I've known a

859
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 1: long time George Conway. I first got to know him

860
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: as a conservative attorney, sort of a political attorney's probably

861
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: the best way to do it. Involved in sort of

862
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 1: legal debates from a conservative side. His prominence rose with

863
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: he and his former wife, Kelly and Conway. And of course,

864
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: if you've followed, if you've not lived in a coma

865
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: or stuck your head in the sand, you know very

866
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: well about George's journey away from the conservative movement and

867
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: the Republican Party, and the journey has moved all the

868
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 1: way into registering as a Democrat and running for as

869
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 1: Democratic of a congressional seat as I could think of

870
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: that includes both the Upper West and Upper East side

871
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: of Manhattan, Georgia. A you okay with that introduction, what

872
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: would you add? What would you I would.

873
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 2: Add is I think the Republican Party moved away from

874
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: planet Earth and moved away from me and all that

875
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 2: is right and decent and just and things like. You know,

876
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we have a Republican Party today that believes

877
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 2: in tariffing the shit out of every country in the

878
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: world for no apparent reason, and and you know, depriving

879
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 2: people of their civil liberties by taking them off from

880
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: the into dungeons. And it's not it's not it's not

881
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 2: the Republican Party I joined in nineteen eighty and I,

882
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 2: you know, it's just a completely I don't think it's conservative,

883
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: all right.

884
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: And I you know, I take you as somebody because

885
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 1: I it's funny. I think we all go on these journeys.

886
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: You you sort of figure out your own politics when

887
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 1: you watch the two parties sort of carve things up differently. Yes,

888
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: And I realized I was more libertarian than I thought

889
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 1: I was. I had no idea right until you used

890
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: to to see and it sounds you know, I always said,

891
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: the Republican Party was made up of sort of you know,

892
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: various coalitions. There was your your evangelicals, your Christian conservatives,

893
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: you had your sort of Chamber of Commerce types, but

894
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: then there were also the libertarian conservatives sort of you know,

895
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: get government off my back. Am I wrong to assume

896
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: that that's probably what drew you to the party? Is

897
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:23,240
Speaker 1: that what drew you to the party?

898
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? I look, I mean I was more I was

899
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 2: more like an I mean what drove why the reason

900
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 2: why I became a Republican in nineteen eighty I mean

901
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 2: I became a Republican after the election of Reagan.

902
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: I was that was a year. Is not to get

903
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: religious here, but a lot of people sort of sort

904
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: of embraced being a Republican nineteen eight. My father was

905
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: one of those people. He was from this Reagan Democrat

906
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:47,479
Speaker 1: that never voted Democrat again.

907
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 2: You know, I in high school, if he would ask

908
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 2: me what I was in nineteen seventy seven, when I

909
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 2: was in ninth grade, which is in the Lake of Watergate,

910
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 2: I consider myself a Scoop Jackson Democrat. And in nineteen eighty,

911
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 2: which was my first my freshman year in college, that

912
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 2: fall when the election happened, and I was kind of

913
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: done with Jimmy Carter and I actually, if I had

914
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 2: been old enough to vote, I was only seventeen, I

915
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 2: would have voted for John Anderson. And then when Reagan won,

916
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 2: it was like, well, I don't really disagree much with

917
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: what he says. He wants a strong national defense, and

918
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 2: I have been you know, I my education on economics

919
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 2: was listening to Teddy Kennedy talk about wage and price

920
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 2: controls and reading about wage and price controls how historically

921
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,720
Speaker 2: they didn't work, and then watching the documentary Free to Choose,

922
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: remember that on PBS with Milton and Rose Friedman, and

923
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 2: it was like, I don't think the government needs to

924
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 2: run everything. And that was that was the source of

925
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 2: my conservatism. And as a you know, legal conservatism, you know,

926
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 2: that was an era where legal the law was kind

927
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: of turmoil. Constitutional is turmoil because the question was how

928
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 2: far could judges take vague or not even just principles

929
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 2: in the Constitution that they just create on their own,

930
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 2: because I think they want to make the world a

931
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 2: better place. And I, you know, it's like, no, no, no,

932
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 2: I read the document. What does the document say and

933
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 2: what do you know, we don't like the document, there's

934
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 2: a whole thing you do to change it. And so

935
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 2: I became a legal conservative as well. I was never

936
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: evangelical or religious conservative. I was more I was kind

937
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,919
Speaker 2: of a you know, a legal conservative in the sense

938
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: that I read texts and I try to be objective

939
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 2: about what they say. I was a economic conservative of

940
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: the sense that I didn't believe in, you know, Teddy

941
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: Kennedy's price price controls, and remembered the only person who

942
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 2: did price controls in our life. I was Richard out

943
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: a side figure.

944
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: And there's always a Richard Nixon. Well, now they'll be

945
00:57:58,360 --> 00:57:58,959
Speaker 1: the Donald Trump.

946
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: Nixon was one of the most liberal presidents of our lifetime.

947
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: Not even close exactly.

948
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you can't explain the kids. And

949
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,919
Speaker 3: what's funny about it is that, you know who would

950
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 3: have agreed with that was Nixon himself, because Nixon would

951
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 3: have argued he was simply responding to what was clearly popular.

952
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 3: It was popular to get the government more involved in things.

953
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 3: Medicare was popular, the civil rights you know, we were

954
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 3: through Itay started.

955
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: I mean, he did all that shit, and he had

956
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 2: you know, and and and you know, you ever, I'm sure,

957
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 2: of course you've watched.

958
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, he would have signed off on

959
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: some form of the version of Obamacare today was essentially

960
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: what Nixon would have agreed to if Kennedy would have

961
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: signed off on it.

962
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and remember remember when he got back from China.

963
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 2: There's there's this opening scene to all the presidents met,

964
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 2: which begins his State of the Union address in nineteen

965
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 2: seventy two, or not none of me. It was a

966
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 2: joined addressed to Congress after coming back from China, and

967
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 2: it's democratic Congress, like overwhelmingly a democratic Congress, like democratic

968
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: has ever been in our lifetimes, and he's getting a

969
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 2: standing ovation. Of course, they deep down hated him because

970
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: he was stealing their thunder and and co opting them

971
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: and all sorts of stuff, but they got all. You know,

972
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 2: he was he was actually a very liberal president. He

973
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: was corrupt as hell and and and did all sorts

974
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 2: of illegal ship and covered it up, but you know,

975
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 2: he was. He was a little president. But anyway, you know,

976
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 2: it's the point is that the party. You know, when

977
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 2: I try to explain to people younger people today, like

978
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 2: they say conservative Republican, they think conservative Republicanism was always

979
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 2: trump Ism. I know, it wasn't the case. They were

980
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: different means of conservatives. They were, you know, Reagan somehow

981
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: managed to bring the evangelical conservatives with the more libertarian

982
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 2: conservatives and the military hawks all together, and it was

983
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 2: That's what political parties are, their coalitions today. You know,

984
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 2: the Republican Party isn't a coalition, It's a cult.

985
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: What's interesting about that is, I think the question that

986
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: I have is sort of I now call myself a

987
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: political anthropologist more than anything else these days.

988
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 2: But this is the perfect conversation for you.

989
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: That's because you know, it's sit there, and what I

990
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: struggle with is can the Democratic Party handle this many

991
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: coalitions under its tent? I said, you know, you know,

992
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: if you think about the twenty twenty coalition for Biden,

993
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 1: you had everybody from AOC to John Kasek and Liz Cheney.

994
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: And when you try to stretch a tent, eventually it

995
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: might split in the middle. Yeah, and that is a concern.

996
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: At what point can can the Democratic Party successfully take

997
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: all of you refugees right and still have a coherent,

998
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: a coherent, proactive view of governance. I think it's very difficult.

999
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 2: Oh, look, I mean, we don't get to that question

1000
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 2: until the current crisis is over.

1001
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: No, it's I find this is what I thought so

1002
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,479
Speaker 1: interesting to me because of how honest you are about

1003
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 1: why you're running.

1004
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 2: Right, and we don't get to have those policy debates,

1005
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 2: And frankly, I'm not I don't think I'm much different

1006
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 2: on policy than your Abigail Spanberger or your Nikey Sheryl

1007
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 2: or you're who's the guy in Kentucky. I don't think

1008
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 2: you know, And I you know, okay, I'm not a

1009
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 2: Mam Donnie Democrat, but I you know, I get you know,

1010
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 2: we're an AOC Democrat. But I get what they're trying

1011
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 2: to do, and I you know, I I kind I

1012
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 2: admire that they have this, you know, object of helping people,

1013
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 2: and I have no problem with that is a question

1014
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: of what the means are and how much it costs.

1015
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 2: We don't get to have those debates now because explain yeah.

1016
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: Right, explain your rationale. It's very unique. I think it's

1017
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: I like that how straightforward you are about your running.

1018
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: And it's two terms.

1019
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 2: And here's my mission, right, tell it to the tell

1020
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 2: it to my here is there it is, Okay, I'm

1021
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 2: sixty two years old, which is why I remember, you know,

1022
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 2: Nixon going to China. And I never've always been kind

1023
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 2: of a political junkie, right I was. I grew up

1024
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 2: on Watergate and it was fascinating.

1025
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: I think that's really why we hit it off so well,

1026
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: right right on Watergate.

1027
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 2: And I developed two things. A fascination with politics, with

1028
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: our constitutione no free things, our constitutional system. And I

1029
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 2: also developed this hatred of corrupt politicians of any party,

1030
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 2: of any strike, and of people abusing their offices, which

1031
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 2: is why, you know, I mean, I'm the guy who

1032
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 2: helped Paula Jones, and I'm the guy who helped Egene Carroll,

1033
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 2: and I'm the guy, you know, I'm the guy who

1034
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: hated Nixon, and I'm hey, Trump hated Trump, and it's

1035
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 2: it's it's just sort of my through line makes sense

1036
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 2: to me, but you you know, it doesn't make sense

1037
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 2: to somebody necessarily who's just saying, well, he was a

1038
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 2: conservative republic. Look at what these conservative publicans.

1039
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: How could you have ever done?

1040
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 2: And if you're politically sophisticated and you're older, you get it,

1041
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 2: and if you're listening to me, you get it. But anyway,

1042
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 2: my whole point about running now, I kind of went

1043
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 2: off the question here. Okay, at age sixty two, the

1044
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 2: reason why I'm doing this, I should be retired. I

1045
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 2: am retired. I'm a retired Laura. I worked a few

1046
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: blocks away from here. I've got twenty blocks away from here,

1047
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 2: and I you know, I did well for myself. I

1048
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 2: should be skiing in Park City right now. Okay, I

1049
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 2: should be doing something or going on a world cruise.

1050
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 2: I should be doing all this. I can't because this

1051
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 2: is just this is just the last few years have

1052
01:03:54,720 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 2: been so absolutely appalling to me. And at this point,

1053
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 2: I don't think a lot. I don't think enough people get,

1054
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 2: even democrats, what we have to do here. There's a

1055
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 2: lot of it. I went to something last night at

1056
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 2: the City Bar, which is this great panel with my

1057
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 2: friend Judge Looting, and basically the lawyers are talking about, oh,

1058
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 2: how can what can the courts do? And Looting is

1059
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 2: saying the Supreme Court sucks and and and it's it's

1060
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 2: a disaster, and other people saying, what about nationwide in junctions?

1061
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 2: All this technical stuff about the law and how district

1062
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: judges are doing their best and the Supreme Court's kind

1063
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 2: of screwing them up, and then the administration is attacking

1064
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 2: the judges. It's like the Framers did not he I'm

1065
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 2: gonna put my federalist society or religious original on which

1066
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 2: you know, I shouldn't say that.

1067
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: The campaign people, Yeah, don't ever say don't say the

1068
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: word thefort some.

1069
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 2: Worst you could say the other f wort. You can't

1070
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 2: say this, okay, the originalist view of how you deal

1071
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: with a fucker like Trump, that's the F word.

1072
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: I can the other that's the word you're allowed to use. Yeah, okay.

1073
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 2: Impeachment and removal the joke they didn't intend. The courts

1074
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 2: cannot play. The courts don't have barneys, they don't have

1075
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 2: police officers. At the end of the day, to enforce

1076
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 2: their orders, it requires the Justice Department to bring contempt

1077
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 2: proceedings or the Justice Department to put people in jail.

1078
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 2: They won't do that, And they can disobey orders anytime

1079
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 2: they like. And what they do, and they're kind of

1080
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 2: doing it in kind of a half assed way. What

1081
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 2: they do is they basically, oh, they kind of comply

1082
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 2: slowly with one order, like you know when you're kind

1083
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 2: of you know, your kid is grudgingly doing something, and

1084
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 2: they kind of take a long.

1085
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 1: Time, so they always you're absolutely right, They comply just

1086
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: enough to say they're complying with something, right, and then

1087
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 1: and then.

1088
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 2: The courts can't hold them in the contempt. And then

1089
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 2: they do the same thing to the next person, like

1090
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 2: they've done it like thousands of times. It's a total

1091
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 2: it's a strategy, right, it's a total strategy. And then

1092
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 2: meanwhile they're attacking the courts. The courts cannot they cannot

1093
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 2: fix this problem. Okay, the problem, you're right, the framers

1094
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 2: fixed by Congress. That's what they intended. That's why they

1095
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 2: put the impeachment clauses in there.

1096
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 1: No, they understood, you couldn't that a president was not

1097
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: going to get a fair trip in our system. You

1098
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: couldn't create a system to make it fair right in

1099
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: either in any direction, which is why it had to

1100
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: be done the separate way. My only concern about a

1101
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: third impeachment is, I don't I don't want to presume

1102
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: why you're you're focused on this, but I which is

1103
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: I assume you want to say, look, we've got to

1104
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: send that. This is this is how you do it,

1105
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: This is how the system is supposed to work, and look,

1106
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: we'll do it again if we have to do it.

1107
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: Do you worry that it's simply just weakens the weakens

1108
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: it so much it just stops being a useful deterrent.

1109
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: What what weakens? Impeachment?

1110
01:06:59,040 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: Impeachment?

1111
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 2: You know, it's never been weaker. That's the problem. Yeah, Okay,

1112
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 2: the problem is we've.

1113
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: Well the problems Mitch McConnell and that vote. I mean,

1114
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 1: I go back. I mean, everything was done exactly how

1115
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: the founders intended. And Mitch McConnell didn't hold a real trial.

1116
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: But let's set that aside. Okay, Well, yeah, it's tough

1117
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: whatever a real tril's supposed to look like when it

1118
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 1: comes to this. In fairness, right, you have to act.

1119
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 2: That's what they did with Andrew Johnson.

1120
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: Well, and it's actually what was done with Clinton.

1121
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 2: Right.

1122
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: We had a few witnesses, Yeah they didn't actually one yeah, yeah,

1123
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: on video, But so we've I take your point on that,

1124
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: but ultimately we were there and Mitch McConnell choked, and

1125
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: you know.

1126
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 2: He deserves to burn. I mean, I'm not gonna use

1127
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 2: that language. He deserves, he deserves, he deserves.

1128
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: I always say this, I hope he regrets the rest

1129
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: of his life reprobation for that. I hope he loses

1130
01:07:59,040 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: ship every night of his life.

1131
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, he you know, he he he was, he was

1132
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 2: scared and he had he had the moment, he could

1133
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 2: have he could have could he have gotten the requisite

1134
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 2: number of what was? I think? So?

1135
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I know he gets Rob Portman, I know

1136
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: he gets you know, probably Tillius. You know, there were

1137
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: a handful that we're waiting for the signal, and we

1138
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: know they would have come. I mean if Cassidy and

1139
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: Burr were there, imagine who else would have come if

1140
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: McConnell had.

1141
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 2: Voted absolutely And what he thought was, which is the

1142
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:34,560
Speaker 2: thing you cannot a mistake you cannot make with malignantly

1143
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 2: narcissistic leaders like a Trump or a Putin or whatever.

1144
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 2: You can't assume they're just gonna go away. They don't.

1145
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: He thought shame would push push them away.

1146
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 2: You know, he's not gonna go away. They always like,

1147
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 2: they always come back for more, and they always seek retribution.

1148
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 2: They never stop. They can't stop. They're not capable of stopping.

1149
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:56,719
Speaker 2: Which is why this guy is going to get worse

1150
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 2: and worse and worse now in terms of whether we

1151
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 2: impeach the power. If the power isn't is the most

1152
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 2: is as weak as it's ever been, precisely because people say, oh,

1153
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:11,639
Speaker 2: we tried it twice, we can't do it. And if

1154
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 2: that's true, and we're not going to try this president

1155
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 2: in the Senate, if we're not going to try to

1156
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 2: impeach this president and have a trial in the Senate

1157
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 2: of this guy for doing every fucking illegal thing in

1158
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 2: the book he could think of, and grifting off the presidency,

1159
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 2: and indicting of political enemies on bullshit, and and and disobeying,

1160
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 2: you know, hutting government programs without acts of Congress and

1161
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 2: U surpacing usurping Congress's power, and trying and trying to

1162
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 2: rename everything, holding holding out. This is the Gateway project,

1163
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,600
Speaker 2: right right that that's the Gateway project. They're going to

1164
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:52,759
Speaker 2: build an Amtrak tunnel there, and he wants he's holding

1165
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 2: that fastage, even though the money has been appropriated and

1166
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 2: even though the government has legal contracts obligating it to

1167
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 2: fund this program, he's holding it hostage because he wants

1168
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,720
Speaker 2: Penn Station named after him in Dallas airportner. This is

1169
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 2: this guy. This is insane and he's he's basically violates

1170
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 2: his oath of office every minute of every hour of

1171
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 2: every day, and except when he's tweeting in the middle

1172
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 2: of the night.

1173
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 1: And but you know, but.

1174
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 2: If we can't impeach and remove this guy, then there

1175
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 2: is no impeachment clause in the Constitution. There is no

1176
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 2: impeachment provision in the country. There is no Article one

1177
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 2: anymore because Congress is basically seating its authority to a

1178
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:34,600
Speaker 2: guy who's basically saying I can make the law. So

1179
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 2: it's really an all or nothing thing here. Do we

1180
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 2: want a constitutional government? Do we want the rule of law?

1181
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 2: Or are we just gonna say, oh, we tried impeachment

1182
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 2: twice and I don't We don't we want to. We

1183
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 2: want to keep it in our back pocket and keep

1184
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 2: it for the next time. What's that?

1185
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: And that's look, I sit here and I will put

1186
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: my political anthropologist slash observer hat on and say, boy,

1187
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is good politics, right, I

1188
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 1: don't know if this is good for twenty twenty eight.

1189
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:05,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if people are what do you do

1190
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: about the exhausted middle But here's the thing. I can't

1191
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: push back on you on you're not wrong about any

1192
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 1: of this. And ultimately again and no, you're not wrong

1193
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: about any of this. So it is it is sort

1194
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: of and the decision. You know, I'm thinking out loud here,

1195
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: but the number of times that collectively political figures and

1196
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: political parties make these compromises because of what we'll play

1197
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: in the next election versus what is right versus wrong

1198
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 1: right is probably why most Americans don't trust politicians, because

1199
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: most politicians always take the easy path, the easier path,

1200
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 1: the non conflicting path, because they think that's actually what

1201
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: voters want, and no, they.

1202
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 2: Want to Look, it's this isn't a political calculus, Okay,

1203
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 2: I get it. In twenty nineteen, there was a lot

1204
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 2: of you know, between Nadler and Pelosi and all the

1205
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 2: you know, all the dynamics and the Democratic Caucus about

1206
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 2: whether to impeach the guy, how much to impeach him on,

1207
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 2: and how quick the trial should be. You know, Look,

1208
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 2: I get politics. Places, these are political branches. But at

1209
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 2: the end of the day, with what's going on here

1210
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 2: and now, it's no longer a question of political calculus.

1211
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:29,839
Speaker 2: It's a moral and legal and constitutional obligation of Congress

1212
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,640
Speaker 2: to do this West the other I think it's a

1213
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 2: I would be a violation of of the oath of

1214
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 2: office for a member of Congress not to push for

1215
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 2: impeachment when it is possible.

1216
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:54,720
Speaker 1: What are the consequences of not doing this?

1217
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 2: The consequences of not doing this is basically, look, psychologically,

1218
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 2: he's deteriorating, he's getting worse, he's getting more uncontrollable. He's dangerous,

1219
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:10,680
Speaker 2: he has you know, he's a nut job, and he's

1220
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 2: a criminal, and he's a malicious and human being. Will

1221
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 2: Care has no conscience, no morals, no remorse, no empathy,

1222
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 2: And he controls five thousand nuclear weapons in the entire

1223
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 2: armed forces of the United States of America. And he's

1224
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 2: deshoing our alliances and he's justssuring our relationships with foreign countries.

1225
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 2: He's basically holding projects for or infrastructure and healthcare spending

1226
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 2: hostage because of his whim. He wants things named after him,

1227
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 2: and he wants to control people's He's creating his own

1228
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 2: private basically his own army, domestic domestic army, with fifty

1229
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 2: billion dollars that he wants to spend on ice to

1230
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 2: control the cities. And you know, this is not separate

1231
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 2: from the elections in twenty twenty six. Know, he was saying,

1232
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 2: maybe you know, Bondie was saying, maybe we could Uh,

1233
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 2: he's up on ice if you give us your voter roles.

1234
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 2: I mean, this is he is trying to establish all powerfulness.

1235
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 2: He's taking away Article one powers of Congress. He's defying

1236
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 2: the courts. He's threatening to to to fuck with the elections,

1237
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 2: and he will do that. This is not this isn't

1238
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 2: even close to normal. This is this is the republic.

1239
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 2: The rule of law, the constitution are all on the line,

1240
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,240
Speaker 2: and they are on the line now. And and if

1241
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 2: you know, the only way we stopped this is a

1242
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 2: combination of people being out in the streets and voting

1243
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 2: for members of Congress who will have the calhonis to

1244
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 2: stand up to the guy and say that's enough. We're

1245
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 2: not going to fund this. We are going to impeach

1246
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,600
Speaker 2: you and remove you. We're going to impeach and removed. No,

1247
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 2: we're going to peach and remove Bondie. We're going to

1248
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,560
Speaker 2: peach and remove of Robert Kennedy for for for his

1249
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 2: crazy shit. Okay, and we have to do all that

1250
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 2: or else, you know, we're not going to last three

1251
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 2: more years of this. We we aren't. I just don't.

1252
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 2: I just don't think. I don't think there's enough alarm

1253
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 2: and enough I think people are just thinking because we

1254
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 2: we we have a country where, yes, a lot of

1255
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 2: people are feeling the squeeze of of higher prices and

1256
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 2: of unaffordable housing and healthcare. But we have a lot

1257
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 2: of people who just it's like, Okay, well, I'm living

1258
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 2: my life. It's nice. It's I get to I watch

1259
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 2: my favorite shows on Netflix, and I get to watch

1260
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 2: the watch the sports on TV, and I live in

1261
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 2: a nice, warm house, and I just can't deal with

1262
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:45,400
Speaker 2: all that stuff that's going on there. Well, that's how

1263
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 2: democracies die. That's how, how how how the rule of

1264
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 2: law dies. That's how self government dies. And it is

1265
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 2: dying before our very eyes unless we exercise the power

1266
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 2: that Congress and the duty that the framers in the

1267
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,639
Speaker 2: Congress of the United States to impeach and remove corrupt

1268
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:16,639
Speaker 2: executive officials. And we have never seen, never, in two

1269
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:21,679
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years, we have never seen a government

1270
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 2: in the United States as corrupt as this one. And

1271
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:28,599
Speaker 2: if we can't get rid of this, this one wor

1272
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 2: screwed it's done. I still go my still just quit.

1273
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:36,639
Speaker 1: Harting was close. Harting was close. It's it was closer

1274
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 1: than Watergate. I don't you know, I mean handed over

1275
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 1: like just parts of the government. I mean people don't prosecute.

1276
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 2: Did he prosecute political enemies that.

1277
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: I don't think. I'm just saying on the financial corruption,

1278
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 1: it was, it's not worse than Trump. Trump is the

1279
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 1: worst since Parting.

1280
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just talking about I'm not so talking about

1281
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 2: financial corruption, talking about moral corruption. I'm talking about corruption

1282
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,599
Speaker 2: of the political problems, the corruption of office corruption.

1283
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 1: And and I think this is actually probably is what

1284
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:15,679
Speaker 1: made it so hard to stop Trump, is that where

1285
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: do you start, right, It's such a target rich environment

1286
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 1: when it comes to him that I you know, I've

1287
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 1: always thought that that it's it's not a strategy, but

1288
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:32,720
Speaker 1: it happens to help him, that he so sprays the

1289
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 1: entire sort of area with corruption that you're like, well,

1290
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:38,839
Speaker 1: am I focused on the pay for play on pardons

1291
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 1: or the personal enrichment on crypto or what he's doing

1292
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 1: over here when it comes to I, you know, it

1293
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:49,600
Speaker 1: is in some ways, and I don't know whether this

1294
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:54,639
Speaker 1: is an indictment of our media ecosystem. But I feel

1295
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,000
Speaker 1: like that's also part of the challenge of trying to

1296
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 1: concentrate the American mind on how this corruption is sort

1297
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:03,759
Speaker 1: of upending the entire system.

1298
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:08,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I I mean, look, I mean, the internet

1299
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 2: only has so much much bandwidth, the media has only

1300
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 2: so much bandwidth, and our brains have only so much bandwidth.

1301
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 2: And yes, by basically giving everyone the green light to

1302
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 2: do the worst things in the world, Okay, by by

1303
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 2: setting off.

1304
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 1: The we could do an entire five hours and just

1305
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: how rfk JR is destroying an entire generation of kids. Yes,

1306
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: we can do.

1307
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 2: We could talk about you know, I mean, if you

1308
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 2: wanted to, if we wanted to make a list of

1309
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:40,679
Speaker 2: impeachable offenses and start kind of tallying up, we could.

1310
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 2: We could We could you know, do this for several hours,

1311
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 2: and then we'd have to have we'd have to break

1312
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 2: and and and and we'll figure out all the things

1313
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,600
Speaker 2: we've missed as I find throw darts, pick something, I

1314
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 2: don't care. But the whole thing in totality is there

1315
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 2: is no question we have a government that does not

1316
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 2: give a shit about what the law is and thinks

1317
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 2: that it's making up the law and thinks that its

1318
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 2: purpose is to serve one man, even though that man

1319
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 2: has taken a oath of office to to to to

1320
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 2: execute faithfully the laws and constitution of the United States,

1321
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 2: and he doesn't do that. He doesn't give a fuck

1322
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:21,600
Speaker 2: about that. He couldn't tell you what the laws and

1323
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 2: the constitution of the United States. He still thinks, as

1324
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 2: he said in his first term, that Article two allows

1325
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:31,120
Speaker 2: me to do whatever I want. Okay, that's that's the

1326
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 2: case for impeachment right there. Okay, you you just you

1327
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:37,680
Speaker 2: could you just find fifty five examples of what he's done.

1328
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 2: You could just you could, you know, it's like, there's

1329
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 2: no It's like in law, we have this thing called

1330
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 2: summary judgment, where basically the facts are not disputed.

1331
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 1: The facts these are not dista.

1332
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:51,600
Speaker 2: There are not disputed facts anymore. And and and and

1333
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 2: that's if we and again, if we cannot do this

1334
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,640
Speaker 2: now here and now throw out and we have to

1335
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 2: throw out the impeachment clauses, be throwing out the patrult,

1336
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:03,680
Speaker 2: which is effectively throwing out the one last check that

1337
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 2: the Congress has to guard its own legislative power on

1338
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 2: an Article woman, which means we're throwing out Article one,

1339
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 2: which means we're throwing out the entire structure of the

1340
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 2: Constitution and throwing out the rule of law and democracy

1341
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 2: all at once if we do not do this, So

1342
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 2: I'm race for impeachment and I don't. I think it's irrefutable,

1343
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 2: and you know I don't. And again it's like, let

1344
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:27,879
Speaker 2: me rant.

1345
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: From just go ahead on more.

1346
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, it's not a political game, it's not

1347
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 2: political calculus anymore. It is a matter of survival. It's

1348
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 2: a moral it's the moral obligation that people commit to

1349
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,759
Speaker 2: when they swear an oath to the Constitution as members

1350
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 2: of Congress.

1351
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 1: Do you think your toughest, look do you? If you win,

1352
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: you obviously are going to believe voters gave you this mandate.

1353
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:56,200
Speaker 1: The person you're going to have to convince of this

1354
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 1: first is a tem Jeffries. Have you had this conversation

1355
01:20:59,520 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: with him?

1356
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 2: No? I haven't. I haven't spoken with with hopefully Speaker Jeffery's.

1357
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: Right, Do you have what's your mind is the best

1358
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:10,680
Speaker 1: strategy to get him to accede to this, because he's

1359
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of donors that tell him one thing.

1360
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,560
Speaker 1: He's gonna have a lot of I mean, here, here's

1361
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: my calculus.

1362
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 2: Here, I get why politically somebody would be not taking

1363
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:27,639
Speaker 2: this position. Now, okay, because it's a it's a big tent.

1364
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,599
Speaker 2: There's a lot going on in the tent, a lot

1365
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 2: in flux. But the two things will change. One is

1366
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,719
Speaker 2: I firmly believe that there will be a democratic House

1367
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 2: of Representatives come January third, twenty seven. Two is in

1368
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 2: the next eleven months, Trump is going to do stuffed

1369
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 2: it will make We haven't even foreseen that's worse than

1370
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 2: what he did during his first thirteen months, because it's

1371
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,320
Speaker 2: just it. Just know what the trend line is.

1372
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 1: As I like to quote Haley Barber, good gets better

1373
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:05,800
Speaker 1: and bad gets worse.

1374
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 2: Bad gets worse, and he only gets worse. He's a

1375
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:11,200
Speaker 2: He's a malignant narcissist, the narcisistic sociopath.

1376
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 1: At any shrink that's not gonna change.

1377
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:16,959
Speaker 2: Only they never change, and they only get worse, particularly

1378
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 2: when they get older and more.

1379
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 1: You know, Oh, the filter is definitely whatever filter existed

1380
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: in There.

1381
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 2: Are no checks because he surrounded himself, you know, the

1382
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 2: first term, he surrounded himself with some fairly smart people

1383
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 2: here and there.

1384
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:36,720
Speaker 1: Okay, well, he did, and Mike Penn sort of, uh

1385
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: did a lot more to protect us than we fully

1386
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:39,600
Speaker 1: appreciated it.

1387
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:45,839
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and and and and and General Kelly and you know, these.

1388
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 1: Those were you know, they were they were patriots, they

1389
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: were they were you know they they you.

1390
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 2: Know, it's you can't work for Donald Trump without compromising

1391
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 2: yourself somehow. But at the same time, if they weren't there,

1392
01:22:57,160 --> 01:22:58,559
Speaker 2: we would have had what we have today.

1393
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: I always say this about people that work for tru

1394
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:03,640
Speaker 1: bar even bar right. No, no, no, no, but this

1395
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 1: is every and this has been true. I've studied, I've

1396
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:09,080
Speaker 1: gone back, and I've gone deep unto Trump on. You know,

1397
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 1: he never keeps an inner circle more than about five

1398
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: or six years. It always rotates because he always throws

1399
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 1: these people away. He always throws everybody away.

1400
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 2: And why people don't think that they're going to be

1401
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:21,760
Speaker 2: the next on the.

1402
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:23,599
Speaker 1: BA They won't be next. I always want to tell

1403
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 1: Marco Rubio Heylo, Marco, when when the when the public

1404
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 1: goes south on one of these international adventures. Maybe it's Iron,

1405
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:33,719
Speaker 1: maybe it's Venezuela, maybe it's Cuba. You're getting the blame

1406
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:35,800
Speaker 1: for this. You're the magabus is going.

1407
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 2: To go Hungarian citizen has been worked for orbon.

1408
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 1: I don't know, I want to go to something bigger

1409
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:48,560
Speaker 1: because you're you're at your you're I'm obsessed with the

1410
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 1: fact that the reason our politics deteriorated over the last

1411
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 1: forty years, arguably since the fall of the Berlin Wall,

1412
01:23:56,320 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: basically since the Cold War, has because it is because

1413
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 1: of the weakness of Congress. That Congress, right, they continue

1414
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 1: to sort of not do their job. And what it

1415
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: did was I find it interesting, why did you join

1416
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 1: the conservative legal movement? You really joined because Congress didn't

1417
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:16,800
Speaker 1: know what the hell it was doing.

1418
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 2: I joined it.

1419
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 1: And so well, no, let me let me just finish

1420
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:22,960
Speaker 1: here in my framing because and so what it did

1421
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:26,719
Speaker 1: was it made the courts. Because the article, the guys

1422
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 1: in charge of Article one failed to sort of respond

1423
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:31,560
Speaker 1: to the public. People felt they had no choice but

1424
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 1: go to the courts, go to the courts for reproductive rights,

1425
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 1: go to the courts to open up to desegregate schools.

1426
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:40,479
Speaker 1: The fact that Congress wouldn't do its job to desegregate schools,

1427
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: to protect people's voting rights, to protect women's reproductive rights,

1428
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 1: people had to go to the courts. So everything became

1429
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:47,559
Speaker 1: about the courts and the.

1430
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 2: Only way Congress courts, and then and then the question

1431
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 2: who put all of this ship in the court's hands?

1432
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:58,639
Speaker 1: Okay, Congress failing to be definitive on its.

1433
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 2: Right, but we have represent No, this is the point

1434
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 2: that So the point is is that.

1435
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 1: What you're identifying and circling and it gets it a

1436
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 1: bigger question that I'm obsessed with. How do we strength?

1437
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 1: There's are two things I think we need to do right.

1438
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I gave a lot of credit to

1439
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 1: Don Bacon for co sponsoring the pardon constitutional amendment that's

1440
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 1: been introduced. I don't know do you know about this?

1441
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 1: So Oluski Johnny o'luski is a Democratic Member of Congress

1442
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:31,559
Speaker 1: from Maryland, fairly new member. He introduced a bill basically

1443
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:34,680
Speaker 1: a pardon Nullification Act kind of, and he wants to

1444
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 1: introduce it as a constitutional amendment that if twenty members

1445
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:39,640
Speaker 1: of the House five members of the Senate object to

1446
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 1: a presidential pardon and then then they can be brought

1447
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 1: to the floor. Two thirds of Congress basically can overturn

1448
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: the same way you'd overturn a veto. But it's a

1449
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:52,559
Speaker 1: constitutional amendment and Don Bacon became the first. You know, look,

1450
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:54,760
Speaker 1: I have a lot of other ideas and how for that.

1451
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 2: That's fine, I would frankly make it less than two

1452
01:25:57,479 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 2: thirds a.

1453
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:00,680
Speaker 1: I agree, and I think I I could make a

1454
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 1: case of just repealing the entire presidential pardon for individual

1455
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 1: I might come up with a party board.

1456
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:11,800
Speaker 2: Chris put the power power of pardon in Congress to

1457
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 2: designate a pardon board like.

1458
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:15,920
Speaker 1: They had a pardon board. Exactly. You could do two

1459
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 1: most senior members of the court, attorney general, president, vice president, speaker,

1460
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 1: pro tem, et cetera.

1461
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:21,600
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1462
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,880
Speaker 1: And it made me think that maybe, just like during

1463
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 1: the turn of the twentieth century, that we might be

1464
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 1: in an era where people are focused on Okay, we

1465
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,439
Speaker 1: need to remodel our democracy a little bit.

1466
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 2: Right.

1467
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:38,040
Speaker 1: One hundred years ago, we realized we had to tax

1468
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 1: these robber barons, so we did the income tax. We

1469
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 1: had to make sure we had a democracy for everybody,

1470
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:46,679
Speaker 1: so we got rid of we We we let women,

1471
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 1: we gave women the right to vote, and then we

1472
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 1: uh uh, and then we decided we we better directly

1473
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 1: elect senators because state politicians were so corrupt. It was

1474
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 1: all being so, what do we need to do in

1475
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 1: our constitution today to sort of deep to sort of

1476
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:09,560
Speaker 1: trump proof going forward, like because that's a conversation I

1477
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:11,200
Speaker 1: think we also need to have, is how do we

1478
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:12,760
Speaker 1: proof our constitution?

1479
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 2: I mean, that's something I talked about when I first announced,

1480
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:21,719
Speaker 2: which was I want to be in Congress for two reasons.

1481
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:26,679
Speaker 2: One is accountability, which includes investigating and impeaching and removing.

1482
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:30,479
Speaker 2: And I'm really talking more about that these days because

1483
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 2: of how bad things have gotten. But the second is,

1484
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 2: and hopefully this will be a second of my two

1485
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:40,960
Speaker 2: terms in Congress, as you mentioned, would be a reconstruction,

1486
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:45,479
Speaker 2: a kind of modern American reconstruction. And I think all

1487
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 2: of these things, you know, I mean, you know how

1488
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:50,639
Speaker 2: hard it is to amend the Constitution, so a lot

1489
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 2: of things will have to be done from a statutory standpoint.

1490
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:56,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I would love to see this pardon constitutional

1491
01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:01,720
Speaker 2: amendment pass. It's going to be hard because again it's

1492
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:03,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's a process that is got to be

1493
01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 2: two thirds. There isn't three quarters of the states. But

1494
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 2: you know, I'm all for that, And but we also

1495
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 2: have to focus on statutory things that can be done,

1496
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 2: for example with pardons. You know, Congress could pass a

1497
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 2: law requiring disclosure of and this requiring and creating a

1498
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 2: body that investigates the circumstances that uh that let lead

1499
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 2: to a partner and so that we have a full

1500
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 2: disclosure of how a pardon came about. If it's not

1501
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:39,840
Speaker 2: through the regular process, then has been adhere to for

1502
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:42,680
Speaker 2: years in the Justice Department, from the Pardon Office, and

1503
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 2: it's some you know, somebody contacts correctly.

1504
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:48,360
Speaker 1: As we all learn, what Trump has gotten all of

1505
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 1: us to realize is, don't assume norms can come back.

1506
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:53,480
Speaker 1: You're going to have to legislate norms correct.

1507
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:59,679
Speaker 2: And legislating norms. The unwritten rules about interring Justice Department,

1508
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,600
Speaker 2: they have to be codified, and they have to and

1509
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:05,760
Speaker 2: there have to be penalties for people who violate them.

1510
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 2: Maybe not the president because the president, you know, it's

1511
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 2: a problem of powers and this fucking immunity decision went

1512
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 2: too far. But everybody else, you know, if if you're

1513
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 2: if you're participants, everybody else can be regulated. Congress is

1514
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:25,559
Speaker 2: the man, I mean, Congress has the power to do this. Okay,

1515
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:29,639
Speaker 2: The duty ultimately, in fact, the executive is to enforce

1516
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:33,720
Speaker 2: an execution laws enacted by Congress. Congress gets to set

1517
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,559
Speaker 2: the rules, which goes back to your point about how

1518
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:39,760
Speaker 2: Congress has been basically defaulting on its obligation to set

1519
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:41,679
Speaker 2: the rules for a very very long time on many

1520
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:47,240
Speaker 2: many things. So again there has to be like, once

1521
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 2: we get rid of the current circumstance, mm hmm, we

1522
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:58,920
Speaker 2: have to really focus on reconstructing and and and reconstructing

1523
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 2: our legal and political system at the federal level by

1524
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:08,559
Speaker 2: codifying these norms that involve the Justice Department and everything else.

1525
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:14,080
Speaker 2: And so that's hard, but job one has to be

1526
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:18,760
Speaker 2: we have to get to a position where we don't

1527
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 2: have these these people, these corrupt and evil people running

1528
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:28,640
Speaker 2: the government for their own personal satisfaction and for the

1529
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:34,559
Speaker 2: satisfaction and grift and profit and ego of one evil,

1530
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:35,840
Speaker 2: stupid man.

1531
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 1: One of the pushbacks you're going to get is this

1532
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:53,519
Speaker 1: idea of like, Okay, if you succeed, don't we just

1533
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 1: embed you know that everything is just going to be,

1534
01:30:57,120 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 1: that this is basically a cold civil war that will continue,

1535
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:02,680
Speaker 1: that that there's going to be no detent, There's not

1536
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, And look, I don't know the answer to

1537
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 1: this question other than I always say the American voters

1538
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:11,679
Speaker 1: figure this out over time, and they're going to figure

1539
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:13,679
Speaker 1: this out. I'm going to trust them. I just don't

1540
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:16,120
Speaker 1: know how many people have to die or voters figure

1541
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:16,360
Speaker 1: it out.

1542
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 2: Here's the metaphor that just popped into my head. Okay,

1543
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 2: what was the name of that pocket in Southeast Korea? When?

1544
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 2: When when the Allies got pushed all the way back before?

1545
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:30,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1546
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:35,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's where we are. Okay, and we're all

1547
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:38,400
Speaker 2: we're almost done here. We're running. Our backs are to

1548
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:43,000
Speaker 2: the Sea of Japan or whatever body of water is there.

1549
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 2: We don't have much more time, and we have to do.

1550
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 1: You know, we have to.

1551
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:53,599
Speaker 2: Engage in politics in a way that has not been

1552
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,479
Speaker 2: engaged in because we've ever had to engage in it

1553
01:31:57,200 --> 01:31:59,240
Speaker 2: in order to get back to at least the DM

1554
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:03,600
Speaker 2: what the demolishorized. We can't. You know, we're going to

1555
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:06,679
Speaker 2: lose the war to save our democracy if we don't fight.

1556
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:12,360
Speaker 2: And is it gonna Is this all going to resolve

1557
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 2: itself in the next two or four years, I don't know.

1558
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:18,800
Speaker 2: I think there's gonna be a lot of damage to

1559
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:22,599
Speaker 2: the require decades to repair.

1560
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell.

1561
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 2: You we're on that, but we're on the precipice. Now,

1562
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:29,800
Speaker 2: we can't worry about where we're going to be five

1563
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 2: or ten years from now if we don't fight back now.

1564
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:36,960
Speaker 1: No, and I and and I understand that mindset. Here's

1565
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:40,439
Speaker 1: where I struggle. And I'll just use the example of

1566
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:48,720
Speaker 1: the redistricting fight, which is, you know, the Democrats spent

1567
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:51,120
Speaker 1: fifteen years making the case that no, no, no, no,

1568
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 1: we've got to take politics out of this. And obviously

1569
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:59,719
Speaker 1: there's no doubt right that that the Republicans trump abbit

1570
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 1: we're trying a little power game of politics, and it

1571
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:05,960
Speaker 1: was finally all right, if you're going to do that,

1572
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:11,960
Speaker 1: then the Democrats are gonna fight back. And I get it.

1573
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 1: And yet at the same time, I'm uncomfortable with the

1574
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:19,600
Speaker 1: idea that the disenfranchising of voters in Texas, that the

1575
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 1: best way to fight back is to disenfranchise voters in

1576
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:26,799
Speaker 1: California or disenfranchised you know, you get where I'm coming from.

1577
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:29,080
Speaker 2: On this, And it's like, basically, we're doing things that

1578
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:30,720
Speaker 2: we didn't ever want to do.

1579
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 1: Correct, It's like and then of course it just feeds

1580
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 1: into the what about ism and then it actually that

1581
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:39,360
Speaker 1: the the other side will say, well, see they're willing

1582
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:41,599
Speaker 1: to break the rules too, so there are no rules.

1583
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 1: Fuck them.

1584
01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:45,240
Speaker 2: Okay, but this is why you know you have to

1585
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 2: you have to win the war to enforce the peace.

1586
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 1: Okay, Well you just tapped into something. Not all Democrats

1587
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:56,120
Speaker 1: believe this is a war, right, is that the problem.

1588
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:00,760
Speaker 2: They need They're gonna they're gonna have to learn. And

1589
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:02,680
Speaker 2: that's and I think this is I mean, I think

1590
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:04,920
Speaker 2: you see people who understand. There are a lot of

1591
01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 2: people who do understand in the Democratic Party that this

1592
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:12,080
Speaker 2: is I don't like the word war because it's it

1593
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 2: cannotes violence.

1594
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:16,880
Speaker 1: No, but I'm worried about but we've already had two

1595
01:34:16,920 --> 01:34:21,480
Speaker 1: people get killed essentially for political protest.

1596
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:25,200
Speaker 2: Correct, I absolutely, I mean, but you know, it's not

1597
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 2: a civil war.

1598
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:27,120
Speaker 1: It's not that.

1599
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:29,200
Speaker 2: I hope it doesn't become.

1600
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:31,599
Speaker 1: What if Tim Wallas had called in the National Guard.

1601
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 2: No, we are, but again, this is you're absolutely right,

1602
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:34,840
Speaker 2: we are.

1603
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:37,280
Speaker 1: On the mean, we're a lot closer than people want

1604
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:38,000
Speaker 1: to realize.

1605
01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 2: Correct, And that's why we can't get fussy about the

1606
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:46,880
Speaker 2: political tactics and the land. You know, I would never

1607
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 2: call them the president, a president of the United States

1608
01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 2: of any party, a fucking piece of ship on a

1609
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:58,320
Speaker 2: podcast until today he is a fucking piece of ship. Okay,

1610
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:01,320
Speaker 2: because and this is where we are, aw all right,

1611
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:04,200
Speaker 2: someday I would you know, I want to go back

1612
01:35:04,280 --> 01:35:06,880
Speaker 2: to in America where I can't make the case that

1613
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:09,519
Speaker 2: the president is a fucking piece of shit, all right,

1614
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:12,400
Speaker 2: where I would never think of using that language, even

1615
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:15,519
Speaker 2: when he did something bad or she whoever. It is,

1616
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 2: all right, there are moments we have to we are

1617
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:24,080
Speaker 2: to use language. We have to use political legal legal devices,

1618
01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:27,519
Speaker 2: including this business. Nothing illegal about what's what? They didn't

1619
01:35:27,560 --> 01:35:29,639
Speaker 2: countifford to the courts of upheld and the Supreme Court

1620
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 2: is upheld it.

1621
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 1: Now. They went to the voters. I mean, I will

1622
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:33,720
Speaker 1: give him that. They went to the voters in national

1623
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 1: the voters.

1624
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:36,439
Speaker 2: They did it. And you know, frankly, it's not really

1625
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:39,439
Speaker 2: disenfranchising people. Just you know, it's not dis ef You

1626
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:42,000
Speaker 2: get to vote. You're not being denied the right to

1627
01:35:42,120 --> 01:35:45,800
Speaker 2: vote just because you are. You know, your neighbors vote

1628
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:47,519
Speaker 2: the other way, Okay, and.

1629
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:51,200
Speaker 1: No you were not. Look I look at what the Virginia.

1630
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:55,800
Speaker 2: You want to have a portional representation system. Amend the

1631
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:59,160
Speaker 2: freaking constitution. I wouldn't be terrible of course they have

1632
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:02,920
Speaker 2: the problem a crazy multi mull you know, we will know.

1633
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm for part I get you to hear something else

1634
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:08,920
Speaker 1: we have Israel and no, no, no, no, we got

1635
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:12,280
Speaker 1: a better. There's a simpler way to solve our congressional map,

1636
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:16,479
Speaker 1: and all it takes is an act of Congress uncap

1637
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:19,680
Speaker 1: the House. The House is too damn small. I know.

1638
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:22,120
Speaker 1: The last thing people think we need or more politicians,

1639
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 1: but congressional districts shouldn't be eight hundred thousand people that

1640
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 1: there's points at that they and I actually believe if

1641
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:34,559
Speaker 1: you essentially and you could put this as a constitutional

1642
01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 1: amendment right, which is no congressional district could be more

1643
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:39,400
Speaker 1: than zero point zh three percent of the population, which

1644
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 1: right now would put you in about three hundred and

1645
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:45,120
Speaker 1: fifty four hundred thousand, you'd actually solve the electoral college

1646
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 1: disparity problem immediately, and then you probably minimize the power

1647
01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:55,160
Speaker 1: of gerrymandering simply because it's a lot easier to draw

1648
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:56,920
Speaker 1: a community of interest more districts.

1649
01:36:57,000 --> 01:37:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, districts, and you can't you know, there's.

1650
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 1: Only so many ways you could jerry mander when you

1651
01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:02,639
Speaker 1: have more.

1652
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:04,720
Speaker 2: Districts, well, you need AI to do it, but you know,

1653
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:08,960
Speaker 2: to cherry mandering that many districts and they would be

1654
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:11,120
Speaker 2: ridiculous of the dish.

1655
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:14,360
Speaker 1: But but anyway, that's it. Look, that's a that's one

1656
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:16,880
Speaker 1: of my pet issues. I think that if we double

1657
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:20,479
Speaker 1: the size of Congress, we'd also get we'd lower the

1658
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 1: bar of entry, barrier to entry in a financial way,

1659
01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:24,040
Speaker 1: and all sorts of things.

1660
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 2: That's an interesting thought. And and and and I see

1661
01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:31,000
Speaker 2: your point. The question is can a legislative body function

1662
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:33,479
Speaker 2: with that many people. That's that's the question. I don't

1663
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 2: know the answer to that.

1664
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:36,800
Speaker 1: Does it function now? I mean, you know, and and

1665
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:39,080
Speaker 1: in fact, I'd argue the problem with it is that

1666
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:41,880
Speaker 1: they don't let the body function that only four people

1667
01:37:41,960 --> 01:37:42,719
Speaker 1: control Congress.

1668
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not arguing with you on this. I'm just

1669
01:37:45,080 --> 01:37:47,680
Speaker 2: I thought it through. I just that's the that's the no.

1670
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:50,080
Speaker 1: I look, and that's the reason why they cap it. Well,

1671
01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:52,639
Speaker 1: we don't have enough office space. You know. It's it's

1672
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:55,920
Speaker 1: sort of like almost like you know, like we can

1673
01:37:56,000 --> 01:38:00,120
Speaker 1: all you know exactly downtown d C is empty, right you.

1674
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:02,439
Speaker 2: Could you could you could have your laptop and in

1675
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:05,000
Speaker 2: your apartment and be a That means that as your office.

1676
01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:07,040
Speaker 2: But anyway, they probably the SaaS will be smaller so

1677
01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:07,800
Speaker 2: you wouldn't need it.

1678
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:10,439
Speaker 1: But let me go, let me go at another issue,

1679
01:38:10,600 --> 01:38:12,800
Speaker 1: another way to tackle this issue of of sort of

1680
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 1: what do you say to the the Trump voter who's

1681
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:22,600
Speaker 1: not a fan of Trump's character but keeps voting for

1682
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:25,519
Speaker 1: him because they just, you know, they've got this policy

1683
01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 1: reason here, policy reason there, and and and I want

1684
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 1: to take I'm going to assume the best that that's

1685
01:38:31,439 --> 01:38:33,719
Speaker 1: the reason, that there isn't some hidden thing that they're hiding,

1686
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 1: you know whatever. You know, I think there's some people

1687
01:38:36,120 --> 01:38:38,840
Speaker 1: that are there for racist reasons when they're not going

1688
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:41,320
Speaker 1: to say it, but I'm going to set those people aside.

1689
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:43,160
Speaker 1: There are plenty of people just looked at it and said,

1690
01:38:43,160 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 1: you know what, politics has been terrible. We needed a

1691
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:48,479
Speaker 1: disruptor like Trump. And I'm no fan of him, but

1692
01:38:48,520 --> 01:38:51,680
Speaker 1: I'm glad it's making everybody squirm. How do you get

1693
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:52,880
Speaker 1: that voter back in the fold?

1694
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:57,200
Speaker 2: I think that voter is going to get back in

1695
01:38:57,280 --> 01:39:02,360
Speaker 2: the fold when the prices or prices of everything go

1696
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:06,160
Speaker 2: up even more than they already have, when they see

1697
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:08,880
Speaker 2: chaos and disorder on the streets which they are seeing

1698
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:11,640
Speaker 2: and they will see more of. I think they're going

1699
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:15,919
Speaker 2: to realize that they're not really you know, for example, immigration,

1700
01:39:16,040 --> 01:39:18,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like this isn't you know if you

1701
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:24,200
Speaker 2: if you're a restrictionist, an immigration restrictionist relatively speaking of

1702
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 2: the sort that you know you had. I mean, I'm

1703
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:29,040
Speaker 2: old enough to remember in the nineties when Bill Clinton

1704
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:33,040
Speaker 2: created a Commission on Immigration where they were basically it

1705
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:37,400
Speaker 2: was restrictionists and the Chamber, the Republican leading Chamber of

1706
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:40,680
Speaker 2: Commerce opposed the restrictions on immigration. I'm old enough to

1707
01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 2: remember that. But you know, no one has, no one

1708
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 2: has done more damage in the long term, For example,

1709
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:55,880
Speaker 2: two restrictionists immigration policies than Donald Trump, because he's associated

1710
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:59,960
Speaker 2: them with this tyranny to the point where even republic

1711
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 2: pilkins who voted for him because they wanted immigration to

1712
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:07,880
Speaker 2: be more restrictive and they wanted more immigration enforcement, are

1713
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:11,240
Speaker 2: repulsed by what they're seeing on their TVs and on

1714
01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:18,160
Speaker 2: their phones. So I think that I think that the

1715
01:40:18,280 --> 01:40:23,479
Speaker 2: people who are actually thoughtful about policy issues, okay, what

1716
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:27,599
Speaker 2: they are going to come back over and you're going

1717
01:40:27,680 --> 01:40:31,920
Speaker 2: to have left the core of the people who have

1718
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:35,800
Speaker 2: the malicious motives, of which there are unfortunately many, but

1719
01:40:35,960 --> 01:40:37,360
Speaker 2: not enough to elect a president.

1720
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:43,639
Speaker 1: How did the Republican Party you joined in nineteen eighty

1721
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:48,439
Speaker 1: end up Trump acolytes. Give me some not just a

1722
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:52,840
Speaker 1: broad brush, but give me sort of like I you know,

1723
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:56,240
Speaker 1: when it going now looking backwards, right, you were there,

1724
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:57,679
Speaker 1: you were on the inside.

1725
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that wasn't I but I was practicing law here

1726
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:00,760
Speaker 2: in New York.

1727
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:03,200
Speaker 1: But when I say that, you were at least invited

1728
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:05,320
Speaker 1: to the parties, Okay, and you might have been able

1729
01:41:05,400 --> 01:41:06,639
Speaker 1: to get inside the velopt rope.

1730
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:07,839
Speaker 2: But I think.

1731
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:11,679
Speaker 1: Was it always ends justifies the means.

1732
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:18,960
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. But I do think there

1733
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:25,640
Speaker 2: was this insolarity that was created in the conservative movement.

1734
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 1: Where they.

1735
01:41:30,479 --> 01:41:36,640
Speaker 2: Made themselves. I mean, they felt persecuted. They didn't get invited.

1736
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:39,080
Speaker 1: To the victimhood is the is clearly the currency of

1737
01:41:39,120 --> 01:41:39,400
Speaker 1: the right.

1738
01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:42,559
Speaker 2: Well that's what That's what led us there. I mean,

1739
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,760
Speaker 2: you know the feeling. I mean you look at a

1740
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:51,440
Speaker 2: guy like Sam Alito, Okay, he is the most aggrieved

1741
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:54,679
Speaker 2: victim ever to will ever see.

1742
01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:57,679
Speaker 1: I mean, by god, I think we'd all trade, we'd

1743
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:01,000
Speaker 1: all love to have the professional career right.

1744
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:03,600
Speaker 2: But he you know, you can just see it in

1745
01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:07,519
Speaker 2: his writing and his personality and his and that when

1746
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:10,720
Speaker 2: he does make public comments. You know, these people are

1747
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 2: all deeply, deeply aggrieved and resentful, and they spent years

1748
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:21,720
Speaker 2: kind of resenting people who had different views from them,

1749
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:24,160
Speaker 2: who treated them. I didn't always treat them with respect.

1750
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:28,599
Speaker 2: I'll give them that, But it's not about you. It's

1751
01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:32,480
Speaker 2: not about me, it's not about them, it's not about individuals.

1752
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 2: It's about the country. And I think these people, I

1753
01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:38,759
Speaker 2: think there's it's a what happened to the Republican Party?

1754
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:45,000
Speaker 2: Was this? And again I might change this is I'm

1755
01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:48,120
Speaker 2: just spinning this off here just because it's what's coming

1756
01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:50,240
Speaker 2: to my head. And I you know, I would love

1757
01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:52,400
Speaker 2: to spend I would love to be in a position

1758
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:56,080
Speaker 2: not running for public office and would this all over,

1759
01:42:56,479 --> 01:42:58,160
Speaker 2: be able to think about it and maybe write a

1760
01:42:58,160 --> 01:43:02,120
Speaker 2: book about it. But I think it's just a crazy

1761
01:43:02,360 --> 01:43:08,760
Speaker 2: form of narcissism where people put their own resentment and

1762
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:13,400
Speaker 2: feelings about how they are not part of this liberal elite,

1763
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:17,479
Speaker 2: and they made that they define themselves that way to

1764
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:22,479
Speaker 2: the point where they oppose everything that the people they

1765
01:43:22,560 --> 01:43:27,640
Speaker 2: oppose are for. Right, it's this, it's the freedom of

1766
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:29,760
Speaker 2: speech and democracy and allay, Well.

1767
01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:34,200
Speaker 1: We saw it with the Second Amendment. Suddenly where they

1768
01:43:34,360 --> 01:43:37,280
Speaker 1: where they alex gun on his hand?

1769
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:39,799
Speaker 2: Where does it say in the Second Amendment that liberal

1770
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:42,880
Speaker 2: protesters get to carry guns? Doesn't say that? I mean,

1771
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 2: come on, I mean, but they're right.

1772
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:47,760
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny to me that your that should be

1773
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:52,400
Speaker 1: the caution cautionary tale for the left, meaning be careful,

1774
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:55,760
Speaker 1: don't get the same virue. My biggest concern about Trump

1775
01:43:55,880 --> 01:43:58,360
Speaker 1: coming back for a second term and the real damage

1776
01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:00,840
Speaker 1: is that it was going to change the psiche of

1777
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:05,240
Speaker 1: the political opponents of Trump, which is where suddenly where

1778
01:44:05,320 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 1: you just well, we got to oppose everything the guy's

1779
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:09,559
Speaker 1: doing because he can't be seen as doing anything right.

1780
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:14,000
Speaker 1: And I worry about that.

1781
01:44:14,439 --> 01:44:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean, I I don't. I guess maybe

1782
01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:21,439
Speaker 2: because I'm a little more process oriented in some ways

1783
01:44:21,479 --> 01:44:22,479
Speaker 2: than a lot of other people.

1784
01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:26,840
Speaker 1: Well, I always say I'm an incrementalist and a bit

1785
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:31,439
Speaker 1: still wanting. I still don't trust institutions, but I trust

1786
01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:34,720
Speaker 1: that a good institution with better incentives is better than

1787
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 1: any And that's.

1788
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:39,639
Speaker 2: The reason why sort of like as I mean, I'm

1789
01:44:39,680 --> 01:44:42,840
Speaker 2: an incrementalist too, which is why I was a conservative

1790
01:44:43,439 --> 01:44:46,680
Speaker 2: and okay, because I thought that was.

1791
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:49,519
Speaker 1: My father's definition of conservatism. Hey, I'm for He used

1792
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:51,400
Speaker 1: to say, I want the Democrats to come up with

1793
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:54,240
Speaker 1: the ideas and the Republicans to manage them. His theory

1794
01:44:54,400 --> 01:44:57,800
Speaker 1: was I'd rather have the empathy of the left and

1795
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:00,720
Speaker 1: the you know, managerial of the That was sort of

1796
01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:03,240
Speaker 1: his mindset. Yeah, something to that.

1797
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:06,680
Speaker 2: There's something to that, and that's that's actually the way

1798
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:10,599
Speaker 2: a healthy political system should function. Some people are pushing

1799
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:12,000
Speaker 2: for something and other people say.

1800
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:14,519
Speaker 1: Wow, not so fast, slow down, let's slow down, let's

1801
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:15,240
Speaker 1: think about.

1802
01:45:15,080 --> 01:45:19,040
Speaker 2: This, right, because democracy is a dialogue. It's a dialogue

1803
01:45:19,640 --> 01:45:23,439
Speaker 2: between the people and their elected leaders. It's a dialogue

1804
01:45:23,479 --> 01:45:26,519
Speaker 2: among the people. It's a dialogue between the elected leaders.

1805
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:31,040
Speaker 2: And that's how we you know, people are pushing for

1806
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:34,800
Speaker 2: change and other people saying, well, let's slow this down

1807
01:45:35,080 --> 01:45:39,000
Speaker 2: or maybe where the change should be different? And you can't.

1808
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 2: But what we have now is basically a nihilistic effort

1809
01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:50,160
Speaker 2: to destroy everything. And that's what Trump. You know, there's

1810
01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 2: just this nihilistic, narcissistic animus among what is now, you know,

1811
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:04,559
Speaker 2: the the the what's the name of the Ombu given.

1812
01:46:04,680 --> 01:46:07,880
Speaker 2: He's an example of that advance. And all these people there,

1813
01:46:07,960 --> 01:46:13,679
Speaker 2: there's just a nihilistic disc right and and and Miller.

1814
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:16,760
Speaker 2: They want to destroy everything because they hate it so much.

1815
01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:21,280
Speaker 2: They developed this sort of irrational hatred of everything that

1816
01:46:21,479 --> 01:46:27,120
Speaker 2: exists because you know, it represents the enemy, which is liberalism.

1817
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:33,480
Speaker 2: And it's not about that, it's it's it. That's not conservatism,

1818
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:38,640
Speaker 2: that's that's that's nihilism. And you know, these institutions that

1819
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:41,479
Speaker 2: took generations to create, whether or not you would have

1820
01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:45,759
Speaker 2: created them in the first place. Right, there's a reason

1821
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 2: why they're there. Okay, there's a there are purposes that

1822
01:46:49,160 --> 01:46:51,840
Speaker 2: they serve. Yes, maybe they can be reformed, maybe at

1823
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:55,640
Speaker 2: some point they can be replaced or modified as they

1824
01:46:55,680 --> 01:46:58,800
Speaker 2: should be over time. But to take a sledgehammer to

1825
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:03,680
Speaker 2: everything that's not conservative, it's insane. And you know, the

1826
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:05,800
Speaker 2: truth of the matter is today it's like, you know,

1827
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:10,320
Speaker 2: my kind of the Democrats are the conservatives today, which

1828
01:47:10,360 --> 01:47:14,000
Speaker 2: is why incrementalists today in a lot of ways, and

1829
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:17,000
Speaker 2: and and and they they they're the people who are

1830
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:19,880
Speaker 2: saying we can't do that. Hold on, what about what

1831
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:21,960
Speaker 2: about the people that it's going to affect, what about

1832
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:25,160
Speaker 2: the what about the you know? And and that's basically

1833
01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:27,479
Speaker 2: what you know. I mean, that's a way of looking

1834
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:32,519
Speaker 2: at what I'm doing today. That's why I'm a Democrat today.

1835
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:33,920
Speaker 2: I couldn't be anything else.

1836
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:45,280
Speaker 1: I want to get you out of here on something

1837
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:50,160
Speaker 1: that I've been and it gets it to how to speak,

1838
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:55,200
Speaker 1: how to convince some Trump voters that that there's a

1839
01:47:55,240 --> 01:48:01,519
Speaker 1: better way. The George W. Bush essay about George Washington,

1840
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:05,560
Speaker 1: yea that I loved it. I thought it was a

1841
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:11,679
Speaker 1: very clever subtweet of the current occupant in the White House.

1842
01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:14,680
Speaker 1: I saw some of our friends and I'm going to

1843
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:20,519
Speaker 1: say that on including including uh at where you've previously

1844
01:48:20,600 --> 01:48:23,000
Speaker 1: were hung your hat every now and then at the bulwark,

1845
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:27,680
Speaker 1: you know. And they're not alone of people that vacillate. Well,

1846
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:30,160
Speaker 1: George W. Bush doesn't speak out enough. He should have

1847
01:48:30,280 --> 01:48:34,040
Speaker 1: more directly taken on Trump. And I look at Bush

1848
01:48:34,120 --> 01:48:37,080
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, the guy realizes it becomes

1849
01:48:37,120 --> 01:48:39,840
Speaker 1: at Trump the wrong way. He could weirdly strengthen Trump

1850
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:43,000
Speaker 1: and it doesn't help. And I think he thinks about

1851
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:45,680
Speaker 1: those things. And I think about that essay and go,

1852
01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:48,240
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who voted Trump voted

1853
01:48:48,280 --> 01:48:51,719
Speaker 1: for Trump will read the essay because it doesn't mention Trump,

1854
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:55,040
Speaker 1: and maybe a few people it will break through. The

1855
01:48:55,240 --> 01:48:59,720
Speaker 1: entire essay was about Trump and the fact that its so.

1856
01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 1: I loved it, and I thought, what do you make

1857
01:49:01,920 --> 01:49:04,400
Speaker 1: of the criticism that it wasn't more than he didn't

1858
01:49:04,439 --> 01:49:05,320
Speaker 1: take a sledgehammer?

1859
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:08,600
Speaker 2: Es said, I'm okay with not taking a sledgeham. I

1860
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:11,040
Speaker 2: just think he should have written that a few years ago.

1861
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:15,200
Speaker 2: That's fair, Okay, that's the problem I have. He should

1862
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:16,160
Speaker 2: have written it in twenty.

1863
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:17,599
Speaker 1: But you understand where they come down.

1864
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:21,120
Speaker 2: I understand understand it. Not everybody can take the Conway

1865
01:49:21,200 --> 01:49:22,120
Speaker 2: sledgehammer approach.

1866
01:49:22,520 --> 01:49:25,479
Speaker 1: We don't well, and with Bush it could boomerang and

1867
01:49:25,560 --> 01:49:27,400
Speaker 1: help Trump weirdly, and he didn't want to do that.

1868
01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:31,599
Speaker 2: No, that's absolutely right. But you know there are things

1869
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:34,000
Speaker 2: that he could have said that, don't you know. I

1870
01:49:34,160 --> 01:49:38,439
Speaker 2: have no problem with people. Look, I started out when

1871
01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:42,400
Speaker 2: I went off the reservation in twenty eighteen, or the

1872
01:49:42,479 --> 01:49:43,439
Speaker 2: reservation left me.

1873
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:45,320
Speaker 1: I was going to say, yeah, I don't know what

1874
01:49:45,680 --> 01:49:46,400
Speaker 1: which came first.

1875
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:48,720
Speaker 2: I can't left the camp in the camp, the camp

1876
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:49,720
Speaker 2: left me, or whatever it is.

1877
01:49:49,760 --> 01:49:52,400
Speaker 1: You shut Yeah, they took away your pass and whatever.

1878
01:49:52,320 --> 01:49:56,320
Speaker 2: Whatever metaphor you want to use. I started out by subtweeting, remember, yeah,

1879
01:49:57,080 --> 01:49:59,320
Speaker 2: like I would just like, you know, here I am,

1880
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:02,200
Speaker 2: I got my phone. Oh here's a nice op ed

1881
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:05,400
Speaker 2: saying that Trump is, uh, you know, destroying.

1882
01:50:05,040 --> 01:50:06,519
Speaker 1: The justice for interesting read.

1883
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:10,439
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, what what is what is Kelly and Conway's

1884
01:50:10,479 --> 01:50:13,519
Speaker 2: husband doing retweeting this liberal who.

1885
01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:14,760
Speaker 1: Is writing this? You know?

1886
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:17,400
Speaker 2: And it was like that was my way of doing it,

1887
01:50:17,880 --> 01:50:22,040
Speaker 2: you know, And and I have no problem with people

1888
01:50:22,720 --> 01:50:26,320
Speaker 2: taking different approaches. I think the criticism that I would

1889
01:50:26,320 --> 01:50:31,320
Speaker 2: still have of George Herban Walker Bush now George Walker

1890
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:36,759
Speaker 2: Bush is he could have done a little more earlier, Okay,

1891
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:41,320
Speaker 2: and I wish he had done that. But I completely

1892
01:50:41,400 --> 01:50:46,120
Speaker 2: respect and what he did with this essay, and he

1893
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:49,720
Speaker 2: does more of it, and maybe maybe he's sort of,

1894
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:52,160
Speaker 2: you know, doing the path that I did, where you

1895
01:50:52,280 --> 01:50:53,960
Speaker 2: just sort of like, don't you know?

1896
01:50:54,520 --> 01:50:56,840
Speaker 1: Well, as I tell my wife this, I remember early

1897
01:50:56,920 --> 01:50:59,400
Speaker 1: on in trump Er, you'll you'll like, I think you'll

1898
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:04,599
Speaker 1: appreciate this story. I said, be careful, assuming they're all bad.

1899
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:06,800
Speaker 1: I said, somebody you don't like might be the hero

1900
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:09,680
Speaker 1: of this story. And you know, and of course, and

1901
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:11,760
Speaker 1: then I joked three years later, she's giving money to

1902
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:16,639
Speaker 1: Liz Cheney. And and so I've always said that everybody

1903
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:19,320
Speaker 1: has a line that Trump eventually crosses. It's just that

1904
01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:21,000
Speaker 1: everybody's line is in a different place.

1905
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:24,160
Speaker 2: And that's right. I mean, and Liz Cheney's example, even

1906
01:51:24,320 --> 01:51:25,439
Speaker 2: Marjorie Taylor Green.

1907
01:51:26,920 --> 01:51:29,479
Speaker 1: Well, that's my point. I think it's it actually proves

1908
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:35,120
Speaker 1: the point your line was crossed sooner Liz Cheney. It

1909
01:51:35,200 --> 01:51:38,800
Speaker 1: took to January sixth. That's no, I don't, I'm not.

1910
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:41,000
Speaker 1: I don't think she should be criticized for not getting

1911
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:43,400
Speaker 1: there sooner, is my point. Like, I think the only

1912
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:46,360
Speaker 1: way you're going to win converts is to welcome them,

1913
01:51:46,680 --> 01:51:47,600
Speaker 1: don't you resolute?

1914
01:51:48,960 --> 01:51:50,160
Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with that.

1915
01:51:50,200 --> 01:51:51,920
Speaker 1: And you know, don't say, oh, what took you so long?

1916
01:51:52,200 --> 01:51:54,719
Speaker 2: That's why I don't. I would never criticize Liz Cheney

1917
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:59,719
Speaker 2: for for for for voting for Trump twice, okay, because

1918
01:52:00,439 --> 01:52:03,439
Speaker 2: you know, she thought wrongly that we could kind of

1919
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:06,679
Speaker 2: get by with him, and then she their line was crossed,

1920
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:10,400
Speaker 2: and thank god it was crossed because she did, you know,

1921
01:52:10,520 --> 01:52:14,519
Speaker 2: I mean, she what she did in after twenty after

1922
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:17,639
Speaker 2: January sixth, was just and nobody else could.

1923
01:52:17,439 --> 01:52:20,559
Speaker 1: Have done that, right, And that's right. She gave up,

1924
01:52:20,640 --> 01:52:24,280
Speaker 1: she gave she gave backbone to the Democrats. It doesn't

1925
01:52:24,320 --> 01:52:25,000
Speaker 1: happen without her.

1926
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:29,200
Speaker 2: And I've been critical somewhat of my Pence right because

1927
01:52:29,720 --> 01:52:33,240
Speaker 2: my view of Mike Pence is, yes, he deserves enormous

1928
01:52:33,439 --> 01:52:37,760
Speaker 2: credit for what he did in January of twenty twenty one.

1929
01:52:38,479 --> 01:52:43,000
Speaker 2: But actually I think she had a moral obligation to

1930
01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:48,120
Speaker 2: concede the election in November or December at the very

1931
01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:52,280
Speaker 2: latest when the Electoral College voted in mid December, because

1932
01:52:52,280 --> 01:52:55,240
Speaker 2: he knew it was over, and he should have said so.

1933
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:57,479
Speaker 2: And you shouldn't have been afraid of.

1934
01:52:57,840 --> 01:53:00,679
Speaker 1: Donald, you know, and you know who I was calculation.

1935
01:53:00,880 --> 01:53:05,200
Speaker 2: I'm saying, I can't be your friend anymore, right, like, okay,

1936
01:53:05,439 --> 01:53:10,360
Speaker 2: but again I wouldn't. I don't. That's the I don't.

1937
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:14,400
Speaker 2: I welcome you welcome the things that he's saying right now.

1938
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:18,840
Speaker 2: And and I think absolutely, you're right. We have to,

1939
01:53:19,320 --> 01:53:20,640
Speaker 2: you know, And there are people, there are people on

1940
01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:25,120
Speaker 2: the Democratic side who basically say, oh, you you voted

1941
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:26,360
Speaker 2: for Trump in twenty sixteen.

1942
01:53:26,360 --> 01:53:28,200
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, you're part of the problem. You should

1943
01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:29,040
Speaker 1: have the problem I.

1944
01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:31,519
Speaker 2: Shouldn't be heard from. It's like, okay, well you know

1945
01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:33,960
Speaker 2: you're not going to fix the problem. If you, if you,

1946
01:53:34,200 --> 01:53:38,559
Speaker 2: if you know you when somebody toms over to your

1947
01:53:38,720 --> 01:53:39,720
Speaker 2: side and tells.

1948
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:44,200
Speaker 1: You you were right. Yes, hate the wind, take the wind. No,

1949
01:53:44,439 --> 01:53:47,280
Speaker 1: it drives me nuts where where people want to like,

1950
01:53:47,680 --> 01:53:50,560
Speaker 1: I can't believe I have to say, look, just accept that.

1951
01:53:50,680 --> 01:53:54,240
Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green Now you know, I actually think she's

1952
01:53:54,280 --> 01:53:55,679
Speaker 1: a fascinating.

1953
01:53:55,600 --> 01:53:58,080
Speaker 2: Oh, totally Robert Draper piece.

1954
01:53:58,160 --> 01:54:01,160
Speaker 1: It's why No, I mean, here's the thing we all

1955
01:54:01,320 --> 01:54:04,720
Speaker 1: dream of a citizen legislature. She was a woman who

1956
01:54:04,760 --> 01:54:08,240
Speaker 1: owned a gym. She didn't know much about politics, saw

1957
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:10,640
Speaker 1: how Trump did it, and thought, oh this is I

1958
01:54:10,720 --> 01:54:13,760
Speaker 1: guess it works this way. I'll try it. And then

1959
01:54:13,880 --> 01:54:16,759
Speaker 1: eventually Trump, like I always tell people troub, will eventually

1960
01:54:16,840 --> 01:54:19,760
Speaker 1: let you down because he lets everybody down if you

1961
01:54:19,960 --> 01:54:22,960
Speaker 1: name it, including his father and mother. He lets every

1962
01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:25,920
Speaker 1: single person in his life down. This is what he does.

1963
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:30,040
Speaker 1: And she gets there and I've seen some people say yeah,

1964
01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:33,240
Speaker 1: but with her, and it's just like, why don't you

1965
01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:36,720
Speaker 1: respect her journey? Because guess what she did? Disagree with

1966
01:54:36,920 --> 01:54:39,800
Speaker 1: you on some ideological concerns, and yeah, she is a

1967
01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:43,080
Speaker 1: bit more of an isolationist and probably a bit more

1968
01:54:43,280 --> 01:54:47,120
Speaker 1: of a nationalist, but she also appears to be a constitutionalist.

1969
01:54:47,480 --> 01:54:51,680
Speaker 1: I will take anybody who's a constitutionalist, regardless of where

1970
01:54:51,720 --> 01:54:55,200
Speaker 1: they stand on me on a variety of issues.

1971
01:54:55,520 --> 01:54:57,720
Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean you can't be critical of her

1972
01:54:57,800 --> 01:54:59,920
Speaker 2: for the crazy some of the crazy things she said

1973
01:55:00,280 --> 01:55:04,200
Speaker 2: corrects and stuff like that, but you can say, thank God,

1974
01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:07,760
Speaker 2: she's doing the right thing now and and you know

1975
01:55:08,320 --> 01:55:11,760
Speaker 2: you can't and you shouldn't reject the fact that she

1976
01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:15,040
Speaker 2: wants to basically make things better in much the same

1977
01:55:15,120 --> 01:55:18,240
Speaker 2: way that we do. And that's like I welcome that.

1978
01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:20,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like you don't win, you know, I mean,

1979
01:55:21,080 --> 01:55:23,360
Speaker 2: what if the Allies, I mean the Allies, were they

1980
01:55:23,400 --> 01:55:25,000
Speaker 2: going to say, Italy.

1981
01:55:25,320 --> 01:55:26,840
Speaker 1: Joseph Stalin, we got it.

1982
01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:30,400
Speaker 2: Let's let's you know, we're not going to let you

1983
01:55:30,480 --> 01:55:31,120
Speaker 2: switch sides.

1984
01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, I mean, right right, we could

1985
01:55:33,240 --> 01:55:35,520
Speaker 1: have easily said screw you. You guys weren't with us

1986
01:55:35,560 --> 01:55:38,840
Speaker 1: at the beginning. Half you Stalin, that's not that we'd

1987
01:55:38,880 --> 01:55:40,680
Speaker 1: still be fighting the war and you're.

1988
01:55:41,280 --> 01:55:45,080
Speaker 2: That's not how that's that's Look, the human part of

1989
01:55:45,280 --> 01:55:49,240
Speaker 2: the human condition, and part is that we we fuck up,

1990
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:53,760
Speaker 2: We make mistakes, we make judgments, don't see the truth

1991
01:55:53,920 --> 01:55:57,560
Speaker 2: as it really is. Sometimes we deny, we convince ourselves.

1992
01:55:58,280 --> 01:56:04,320
Speaker 2: But part of you know, maturity and character, and frankly

1993
01:56:04,520 --> 01:56:08,960
Speaker 2: of the kind of spirit that should animate a democracy

1994
01:56:10,120 --> 01:56:14,000
Speaker 2: is the humility of knowing that you're not always right

1995
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:17,040
Speaker 2: and that there are times where you have to admit

1996
01:56:17,400 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 2: that you are wrong. And that is what we need

1997
01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:25,480
Speaker 2: to foster among many people who voted for Trump once,

1998
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 2: twice or thrice today and that you know, it's like

1999
01:56:29,800 --> 01:56:32,160
Speaker 2: that Saturday Nights Live skit that we saw a couple

2000
01:56:32,240 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 2: of weeks ago with the mom. See that one where

2001
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:39,480
Speaker 2: the mom is saying, I have something to say. I

2002
01:56:39,640 --> 01:56:42,320
Speaker 2: want you not to say anything in response, and she's

2003
01:56:42,480 --> 01:56:45,440
Speaker 2: like kind of trying to force out that I may

2004
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:49,400
Speaker 2: have been wrong in thinking that Donald Trump was, you know,

2005
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:51,920
Speaker 2: good for the country. And the kids go, well, Mom,

2006
01:56:52,240 --> 01:56:56,240
Speaker 2: don't shut up. Don't we have to be those kids,

2007
01:56:57,040 --> 01:57:00,160
Speaker 2: We have to be those kids. And the kids are like, no,

2008
01:57:00,240 --> 01:57:04,600
Speaker 2: they said, we talked, no, no, stop, I told you none.

2009
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:06,200
Speaker 1: Nobody likes to be told I told you.

2010
01:57:06,280 --> 01:57:08,360
Speaker 2: Nobody likes to be told that they're wrong. Nobody likes

2011
01:57:08,400 --> 01:57:10,840
Speaker 2: to be admitted, to admit that they're wrong. But we

2012
01:57:11,040 --> 01:57:14,360
Speaker 2: need to make it easier for people because it really

2013
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:18,840
Speaker 2: is a lot of why trump Ism has persisted is

2014
01:57:18,960 --> 01:57:23,880
Speaker 2: that people he led people so far astray that in

2015
01:57:24,120 --> 01:57:29,040
Speaker 2: order for them to recognize how far morally they strayed,

2016
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:33,879
Speaker 2: they have to look themselves in a mirror and admit

2017
01:57:34,160 --> 01:57:38,160
Speaker 2: how bad he is, which makes them feel bad about themselves.

2018
01:57:38,240 --> 01:57:40,840
Speaker 2: So they do and everything, and so they believe them.

2019
01:57:41,080 --> 01:57:44,360
Speaker 2: They leave News maxon and Fox News on so they

2020
01:57:44,480 --> 01:57:47,320
Speaker 2: don't have to hear the bad things that are happening.

2021
01:57:48,040 --> 01:57:51,120
Speaker 2: And you know, sooner or later at the grocery store,

2022
01:57:51,160 --> 01:57:53,040
Speaker 2: they're going to figure out, oh, this isn't marting on.

2023
01:57:53,240 --> 01:57:59,080
Speaker 1: So well, well, I'm tempted to give you the dumb

2024
01:57:59,120 --> 01:58:01,840
Speaker 1: New York City question and saying like your favorite bagel joint,

2025
01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:06,560
Speaker 1: Metzer Yankees and all that nonsense. But you know, in

2026
01:58:06,640 --> 01:58:10,640
Speaker 1: all seriousness, when you're out there, what are the you know,

2027
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:11,840
Speaker 1: and I'm going to get you out here on this,

2028
01:58:12,440 --> 01:58:14,640
Speaker 1: what are the questions voters ask of you that are

2029
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:15,880
Speaker 1: not about Donald Trump?

2030
01:58:18,800 --> 01:58:20,680
Speaker 2: You know, the ones who come up to me talk

2031
01:58:20,720 --> 01:58:21,280
Speaker 2: about Trump.

2032
01:58:21,960 --> 01:58:26,040
Speaker 1: I think, well, that would bet you know.

2033
01:58:26,160 --> 01:58:31,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I can tell you you know, there absolutely is.

2034
01:58:31,840 --> 01:58:35,120
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a reason why Zorim Mumdani is the

2035
01:58:35,280 --> 01:58:37,520
Speaker 2: Mayor of New York. There are a lot and there's

2036
01:58:37,560 --> 01:58:40,920
Speaker 2: a reason. You know, it's not just in there are

2037
01:58:41,000 --> 01:58:44,600
Speaker 2: problems with how you know, I mean, we're living in

2038
01:58:44,680 --> 01:58:47,400
Speaker 2: an era where healthcare is becoming this the rap most

2039
01:58:47,480 --> 01:58:49,440
Speaker 2: rapidly growing industry in New York.

2040
01:58:51,160 --> 01:58:53,800
Speaker 1: You know, it's our job, growth engine, the only job.

2041
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:56,720
Speaker 2: Because we're all getting older and because we're getting older,

2042
01:58:56,760 --> 01:59:02,040
Speaker 2: we're getting sicker, and there's higher demand for you know,

2043
01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:08,000
Speaker 2: medical services and medicines. And you know, when you have

2044
01:59:08,240 --> 01:59:13,080
Speaker 2: increased demand and supply isn't necessarily you know, it's it's

2045
01:59:13,200 --> 01:59:15,960
Speaker 2: creating costs that people can't afford them. We need to

2046
01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:20,520
Speaker 2: figure out a way to make the necessary care affordable. Absolutely,

2047
01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:25,320
Speaker 2: and obviously that's something that greatly confer the the the

2048
01:59:25,600 --> 01:59:30,680
Speaker 2: the refusal to fund the subsidies, and and and that

2049
01:59:30,960 --> 01:59:35,320
Speaker 2: and and so on. You know, people are concerned about that.

2050
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:38,280
Speaker 2: They're concerned about the cost of housing in New York City. Absolutely,

2051
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:40,720
Speaker 2: it's crazy. It's always been crazy expensive. But it's you know,

2052
01:59:40,840 --> 01:59:44,440
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's not it's you know, you need

2053
01:59:44,520 --> 01:59:48,720
Speaker 2: more supply. But you know, a lot of these problems,

2054
01:59:48,760 --> 01:59:51,760
Speaker 2: at least from the standpoint of someone from from a

2055
01:59:51,920 --> 01:59:57,920
Speaker 2: federal legislative level position, can't be dealt with until he's gone.

2056
01:59:58,080 --> 01:59:59,760
Speaker 2: And and you know, and there are things like, for example,

2057
01:59:59,800 --> 02:00:03,000
Speaker 2: who who who who? Who took out the salt deduction?

2058
02:00:04,080 --> 02:00:04,240
Speaker 1: Right?

2059
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:05,400
Speaker 2: Who is Donald Trump?

2060
02:00:06,200 --> 02:00:06,440
Speaker 1: There was?

2061
02:00:06,560 --> 02:00:12,360
Speaker 2: That was like his first effort to punish blue states, Okay,

2062
02:00:12,800 --> 02:00:15,360
Speaker 2: and and and New York, New York City, New York State,

2063
02:00:15,440 --> 02:00:19,200
Speaker 2: New Jersey. They have been paying the price ever since.

2064
02:00:19,960 --> 02:00:22,600
Speaker 2: But we can't you know, restoring the salt deduction. How

2065
02:00:22,640 --> 02:00:24,680
Speaker 2: are you gonna do that? With Donald Trump being president?

2066
02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:29,800
Speaker 2: Can't do it? So my answer to everything is I

2067
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:34,000
Speaker 2: feel your pain, I understand your issue. I agree we

2068
02:00:34,120 --> 02:00:36,760
Speaker 2: have to do something about it. I may not agree,

2069
02:00:36,880 --> 02:00:39,520
Speaker 2: for example, with Medicare for all, I may support a

2070
02:00:39,640 --> 02:00:44,040
Speaker 2: different approach than Medicare for all or whatever, but I'm

2071
02:00:44,120 --> 02:00:47,200
Speaker 2: with you that that's what that's what we need to do,

2072
02:00:47,440 --> 02:00:51,440
Speaker 2: because you know, we are in we we it's become

2073
02:00:51,840 --> 02:00:55,520
Speaker 2: an expectation and duty of government throughout the Western world

2074
02:00:56,080 --> 02:00:59,600
Speaker 2: to make sure that healthcare is affordable. But we can't

2075
02:00:59,720 --> 02:01:01,920
Speaker 2: do it until he's gone, and we have a government

2076
02:01:01,960 --> 02:01:07,640
Speaker 2: that actually is rational and is not a criminal enterprise

2077
02:01:07,680 --> 02:01:13,280
Speaker 2: designed to fall to support and the financial and egotistical

2078
02:01:13,760 --> 02:01:19,320
Speaker 2: impulses of one deranged to prave human being.

2079
02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:23,920
Speaker 1: I'm tending to keep going. We've gone along. I usually

2080
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:25,760
Speaker 1: don't go over an hour on interviews because I always

2081
02:01:25,800 --> 02:01:28,680
Speaker 1: worry about whether people fade away. But I don't think

2082
02:01:28,720 --> 02:01:30,360
Speaker 1: anybody fades away from you my front.

2083
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:32,280
Speaker 2: I mean, this was an amazing conversation.

2084
02:01:33,160 --> 02:01:36,040
Speaker 1: I look, I wanted. I love to do it again.

2085
02:01:36,320 --> 02:01:38,800
Speaker 2: Chance to talk to a political anthropologist at this length.

2086
02:01:39,240 --> 02:01:42,320
Speaker 1: Ah, you're very you're you're you're you're amusing to me

2087
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:45,320
Speaker 1: that you're using my words. Uh, either it getst me

2088
02:01:45,440 --> 02:01:48,640
Speaker 1: or with me. But uh, I want to do this

2089
02:01:48,800 --> 02:01:51,000
Speaker 1: again because.

2090
02:01:50,920 --> 02:01:53,360
Speaker 2: Every week I think, I just every week.

2091
02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:56,760
Speaker 1: You're a process guy. I love process, and we're all

2092
02:01:56,840 --> 02:01:59,920
Speaker 1: trying to ultimately the country is better when there's a

2093
02:02:00,080 --> 02:02:05,839
Speaker 1: process to follow, and what want to do? The grifters

2094
02:02:05,880 --> 02:02:09,080
Speaker 1: don't want process because they get caught when there's When

2095
02:02:09,160 --> 02:02:11,640
Speaker 1: when there's a process, All right, my friend, be safe

2096
02:02:11,680 --> 02:02:14,280
Speaker 1: on the trail. I do I do. I assume you

2097
02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:15,320
Speaker 1: worry about those things.

2098
02:02:15,800 --> 02:02:16,880
Speaker 2: I do worry about these things.

2099
02:02:18,280 --> 02:02:22,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all unfortunately, as my friend Paul Rycoff says,

2100
02:02:22,440 --> 02:02:25,160
Speaker 1: stay vigilant. I think it's true, we all need to

2101
02:02:25,680 --> 02:02:37,120
Speaker 1: a right sir, be safe. So what is your favorite

2102
02:02:37,240 --> 02:02:38,880
Speaker 1: F word? And what do you think I should bleep?

2103
02:02:38,960 --> 02:02:41,160
Speaker 1: Do I have to bleep every time someone says federalist

2104
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:44,760
Speaker 1: society or or or or what say you? I'd love

2105
02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:48,120
Speaker 1: to hear from you. Look, in all seriousness, I find

2106
02:02:48,160 --> 02:02:54,960
Speaker 1: the you know, George Conway's argument is incredibly persuasive when

2107
02:02:55,000 --> 02:02:56,880
Speaker 1: I look at it through the lens of the Constitution,

2108
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:02,160
Speaker 1: the durability of the republic right.

2109
02:03:03,520 --> 02:03:03,640
Speaker 2: Uh.

2110
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:07,080
Speaker 1: And I will admit that I'll be equally persuaded by

2111
02:03:07,120 --> 02:03:11,160
Speaker 1: the political argument that says you got to get power

2112
02:03:11,240 --> 02:03:13,080
Speaker 1: before you can start to do these things. And it

2113
02:03:13,200 --> 02:03:14,960
Speaker 1: may be that the best way to get powers to

2114
02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:17,800
Speaker 1: talk more about affordability than in talking about a third impeachment.

2115
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:18,840
Speaker 2: Uh.

2116
02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:22,120
Speaker 1: And Yet, if there's ever a congressional district where I

2117
02:03:22,120 --> 02:03:25,000
Speaker 1: think George Conway can have the conversation going, no, this

2118
02:03:25,160 --> 02:03:27,760
Speaker 1: is what we're going to focus on. First, it's probably

2119
02:03:29,920 --> 02:03:33,000
Speaker 1: it's probably a district. It's probably a congressional district in Manhattan.

2120
02:03:34,120 --> 02:03:37,440
Speaker 1: Or I would argue, what used to be the the

2121
02:03:38,120 --> 02:03:41,560
Speaker 1: the Arlington, Alexandria congressional district of you know, the Don

2122
02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:46,360
Speaker 1: Bayer district in northern Virginia. Though now it's all getting

2123
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:48,800
Speaker 1: scrambled up, so we got we're going to have some

2124
02:03:48,920 --> 02:03:54,800
Speaker 1: weird congressional districts now in Virginia. That Yeah, you want

2125
02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:58,000
Speaker 1: to talk about misleading ad campaigns, woo the yes I

2126
02:03:58,640 --> 02:04:00,920
Speaker 1: am I'm not sure where to be impressed with the

2127
02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:05,720
Speaker 1: messaging of the yes ads on the Virginia Constitutional Amendment,

2128
02:04:06,240 --> 02:04:10,080
Speaker 1: because literally, it makes you, it makes you think that

2129
02:04:10,200 --> 02:04:12,400
Speaker 1: the only way to create fairness is to have these

2130
02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:15,720
Speaker 1: new maps and it's it's and yet then they emphasize

2131
02:04:15,720 --> 02:04:19,480
Speaker 1: temporarily it's they do a good job of confusing the issue,

2132
02:04:21,440 --> 02:04:25,000
Speaker 1: and they're going to have more money on this because

2133
02:04:25,040 --> 02:04:27,960
Speaker 1: I it's the rights had a tough time figuring out

2134
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:31,760
Speaker 1: how to oppose these efforts in other states because you

2135
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:34,360
Speaker 1: know who started it, right, This is a case where

2136
02:04:34,480 --> 02:04:39,120
Speaker 1: Democrats brought a gun to a knife fight. Normally it's

2137
02:04:39,160 --> 02:04:41,920
Speaker 1: the it's the Republicans that bring the guns to the

2138
02:04:42,040 --> 02:04:45,920
Speaker 1: knife fight. This time the Democrats brought the guns, and

2139
02:04:46,080 --> 02:04:51,080
Speaker 1: Republicans have been surprisingly caught flat footed on this that's

2140
02:04:51,120 --> 02:04:52,920
Speaker 1: on the politics side of things, And it goes back

2141
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:55,160
Speaker 1: to that's why I know I went down there, But

2142
02:04:55,320 --> 02:05:03,360
Speaker 1: it goes back to I. I don't know if it

2143
02:05:04,000 --> 02:05:10,760
Speaker 1: is history will be kinder to us if the constitution

2144
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:14,560
Speaker 1: is used to throw him out of office. But I

2145
02:05:14,640 --> 02:05:16,680
Speaker 1: don't know if you can get there, if our country

2146
02:05:16,760 --> 02:05:20,600
Speaker 1: is ready to get there politically yet. But he makes

2147
02:05:20,640 --> 02:05:23,120
Speaker 1: a very persuasive case. And what I admire about his

2148
02:05:23,240 --> 02:05:26,280
Speaker 1: candidacy is he is telling the voters this is what

2149
02:05:26,360 --> 02:05:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to do. So if you want this done,

2150
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:33,400
Speaker 1: I'm your candidate. It's all we can ask for from

2151
02:05:33,440 --> 02:05:36,680
Speaker 1: people running for office. Tell us what mandate you plan

2152
02:05:36,800 --> 02:05:39,440
Speaker 1: to take away from your if you win this primary

2153
02:05:39,520 --> 02:05:44,640
Speaker 1: and if you win this election, there you go. All right,

2154
02:05:44,720 --> 02:05:51,520
Speaker 1: let's get to some ass. Chuck ass chuck. All right,

2155
02:05:51,640 --> 02:05:54,040
Speaker 1: Ryan asked, I'm probably getting ahead of things here, but

2156
02:05:54,120 --> 02:05:55,960
Speaker 1: what if and hear me out, we just gave Trump

2157
02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:58,720
Speaker 1: what he wants. Legacy and treasure seem to be his goal,

2158
02:05:58,840 --> 02:06:01,320
Speaker 1: So maybe we use that to as real policy. Want

2159
02:06:01,360 --> 02:06:03,800
Speaker 1: to keep your katar jet great? Just sign a public

2160
02:06:03,840 --> 02:06:06,360
Speaker 1: health care option into law. Don't want another Epstein here

2161
02:06:06,400 --> 02:06:09,120
Speaker 1: in cool reform, the war powers Act. I'm mostly kidding,

2162
02:06:09,160 --> 02:06:13,280
Speaker 1: but it's nice to dream about turning chaos into actual progress. Well, Ryan,

2163
02:06:13,360 --> 02:06:16,480
Speaker 1: I mean Chuck Schumer tried this strategy arguably when he

2164
02:06:17,200 --> 02:06:22,120
Speaker 1: was willing to get codify DAKA for the Wall, and

2165
02:06:22,680 --> 02:06:25,200
Speaker 1: Trump almost took it, took the deal. In fact, the

2166
02:06:25,280 --> 02:06:28,280
Speaker 1: greatest fear that many Republicans in Congress have had is

2167
02:06:28,360 --> 02:06:32,200
Speaker 1: that Democrats might start being willing to cut deals directly

2168
02:06:32,280 --> 02:06:36,640
Speaker 1: with Trump if they do things like this, All right,

2169
02:06:36,960 --> 02:06:42,360
Speaker 1: you want your name on this. Double the amount of money, right,

2170
02:06:42,600 --> 02:06:45,880
Speaker 1: double the appropriation so that we can build this high

2171
02:06:45,920 --> 02:06:48,480
Speaker 1: speed rail here, and we'll call it all the Trump

2172
02:06:48,880 --> 02:06:58,520
Speaker 1: high Speed Rail System. I think we see that that

2173
02:06:58,680 --> 02:07:03,080
Speaker 1: Trump is if his base won't go along. I think

2174
02:07:03,160 --> 02:07:06,280
Speaker 1: it goes back to and I vacillate on this whether

2175
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:10,200
Speaker 1: who controls Does Trump have more influence on the mega

2176
02:07:10,240 --> 02:07:12,400
Speaker 1: base or does the magabase have more influence on Trump?

2177
02:07:15,240 --> 02:07:18,400
Speaker 1: And I think when you see how the Epstein files went,

2178
02:07:19,080 --> 02:07:22,680
Speaker 1: I think, oh, sometimes the megabase has more influence than Trump.

2179
02:07:24,400 --> 02:07:27,120
Speaker 1: Trump's had a hard time turning his base against the

2180
02:07:27,200 --> 02:07:36,080
Speaker 1: Epstein file release, so right, And I think there are

2181
02:07:36,160 --> 02:07:38,640
Speaker 1: some in the MAGA world who just don't ever want

2182
02:07:38,680 --> 02:07:40,960
Speaker 1: to cut deals with any Democrats own the Libs matters

2183
02:07:41,040 --> 02:07:46,160
Speaker 1: more than doing what's best for the country. And you know,

2184
02:07:46,240 --> 02:07:49,440
Speaker 1: with Trump, his narcissism is so strong that he can be,

2185
02:07:50,520 --> 02:07:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, persuaded in ways that even the maga right

2186
02:07:54,080 --> 02:08:00,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't like. But ultimately I get what you know, and

2187
02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:04,240
Speaker 1: I know your sort of tongue in cheek. Ultimately, welcome

2188
02:08:04,320 --> 02:08:09,480
Speaker 1: to akliptocracy because that's I think what you describe is

2189
02:08:09,560 --> 02:08:12,880
Speaker 1: exactly how Trump would like to run the government. All right.

2190
02:08:12,920 --> 02:08:17,400
Speaker 1: Next question comes from John asked, Glendale, Wisconsin. Damn, damn

2191
02:08:17,440 --> 02:08:19,520
Speaker 1: good guests the last few weeks. Thank you. When I

2192
02:08:19,600 --> 02:08:22,160
Speaker 1: was younger, I kept up on all the Senators and

2193
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:24,640
Speaker 1: most representatives, a bit of a political nerd back then.

2194
02:08:24,680 --> 02:08:26,480
Speaker 1: I've got it, I've gotten a bit lazy. Really appreciate

2195
02:08:26,480 --> 02:08:29,640
Speaker 1: you having candidates on. It brings my pessimism back to normal.

2196
02:08:29,760 --> 02:08:32,520
Speaker 1: Oh good, and gives me refreshing optimism about future leaders. Also,

2197
02:08:32,600 --> 02:08:35,040
Speaker 1: you can have such good listener questions. I hear them

2198
02:08:35,080 --> 02:08:36,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of times think I was just thinking

2199
02:08:36,720 --> 02:08:38,640
Speaker 1: about that. Keep up the good work makes my morning

2200
02:08:38,760 --> 02:08:40,880
Speaker 1: walks fly by, nice go back, go by the way.

2201
02:08:41,000 --> 02:08:43,120
Speaker 1: I agree that Lafleur should have been fired. Wow. John

2202
02:08:43,120 --> 02:08:46,200
Speaker 1: Aske from Glendale, Wisconsin. Look, I appreciate you saying that,

2203
02:08:46,920 --> 02:08:48,560
Speaker 1: and I'm going to continue to have more candidates on.

2204
02:08:48,640 --> 02:08:51,240
Speaker 1: We're gonna have I know we're working on Molly McMorrow

2205
02:08:51,400 --> 02:08:54,040
Speaker 1: in Michigan. I've had abdulasa ed. So we want to

2206
02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:56,080
Speaker 1: get Molly McMorrow, and I want Hanley Stevens, and I

2207
02:08:56,160 --> 02:08:58,040
Speaker 1: want Mike Rogers. We're going to try to get them all.

2208
02:08:59,440 --> 02:09:02,000
Speaker 1: Matt Mayhem, I think we're working on him, the mayor

2209
02:09:02,000 --> 02:09:04,280
Speaker 1: of San Jose, he'll be coming soon. So we keep

2210
02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:06,600
Speaker 1: them up. We're going to keep doing it. We keep

2211
02:09:06,680 --> 02:09:08,760
Speaker 1: working on James Talerico. Maybe if we tell them that

2212
02:09:08,800 --> 02:09:11,640
Speaker 1: the FCC tail doesn't want him on here, he'll show up.

2213
02:09:14,080 --> 02:09:20,160
Speaker 1: One quick bit of Packer news, Rich Pissaci has finally gone. Sorry.

2214
02:09:20,320 --> 02:09:23,160
Speaker 1: Like us, Packer fans are sort of like, okay, if

2215
02:09:23,200 --> 02:09:26,080
Speaker 1: we're going to keep la floor. The worst special team's

2216
02:09:27,400 --> 02:09:30,000
Speaker 1: performance of the last three years belongs to the Green

2217
02:09:30,160 --> 02:09:34,000
Speaker 1: Bay Packers. Extraordinarily terrible when you think about the fact

2218
02:09:34,040 --> 02:09:35,760
Speaker 1: that they've been a playoff team and have had this

2219
02:09:36,040 --> 02:09:40,240
Speaker 1: piss poor special teams efforts. It has been fascinating to

2220
02:09:40,320 --> 02:09:45,800
Speaker 1: me watching the Packer beat rioters and the Packer gms

2221
02:09:45,800 --> 02:09:49,480
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, the apologists for Bisacia. Here's what

2222
02:09:49,600 --> 02:09:52,960
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, John, if you're wondering, I've been obsessed

2223
02:09:53,000 --> 02:09:55,520
Speaker 1: with this. I think rich Pisacia is the best source

2224
02:09:55,600 --> 02:09:58,120
Speaker 1: for every Packers beat reporter because not all one of

2225
02:09:58,200 --> 02:10:00,920
Speaker 1: them wanted to say a negative thing about him, talk

2226
02:10:00,960 --> 02:10:03,000
Speaker 1: about how important he was for culture and this and that.

2227
02:10:04,760 --> 02:10:07,440
Speaker 1: It is a reminder just like in politics, you know,

2228
02:10:08,240 --> 02:10:13,400
Speaker 1: beat reporters don't want to screw their sources, and sometimes

2229
02:10:13,640 --> 02:10:18,520
Speaker 1: the bad actors are good sources. And I think Basachia

2230
02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:21,280
Speaker 1: is an exactly I mean, what was amazing is I mean,

2231
02:10:21,360 --> 02:10:24,280
Speaker 1: you got to give the packers what of course he

2232
02:10:24,480 --> 02:10:27,000
Speaker 1: was fired, but they were not yet I guess I

2233
02:10:27,040 --> 02:10:29,000
Speaker 1: got to give the packers credit. No, no, no, no,

2234
02:10:29,200 --> 02:10:31,800
Speaker 1: he's chosen to move on and resign and all this stuff.

2235
02:10:32,120 --> 02:10:35,600
Speaker 1: But my goodness, we didn't do anything right in special teams.

2236
02:10:35,640 --> 02:10:41,720
Speaker 1: And when you look, the biggest, you know, hidden advantage

2237
02:10:41,760 --> 02:10:43,440
Speaker 1: of the Seahawks had over the rest of the league

2238
02:10:44,360 --> 02:10:47,640
Speaker 1: was their special teams. They had a terrific punter, a

2239
02:10:47,880 --> 02:10:53,200
Speaker 1: terrific field goalkicker, and an amazing thought returner that is

2240
02:10:53,320 --> 02:10:58,520
Speaker 1: worth a lot, all right, mark for mann arbor rights.

2241
02:10:58,560 --> 02:11:00,480
Speaker 1: And did the Biden administration tried to include in the

2242
02:11:00,520 --> 02:11:04,240
Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act really an environmental bill some even really

2243
02:11:04,280 --> 02:11:06,880
Speaker 1: call it an energy bill. Mark the authority for the

2244
02:11:06,960 --> 02:11:09,560
Speaker 1: EPA to regulate greenhouse gases and classify the gases pollutant.

2245
02:11:09,560 --> 02:11:11,480
Speaker 1: Seems like that would have prevented the situation with the

2246
02:11:11,520 --> 02:11:15,240
Speaker 1: recent executive order and likely court cases on eps's environmental

2247
02:11:15,320 --> 02:11:18,040
Speaker 1: and endangement finding it is odd at the bill including

2248
02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:23,320
Speaker 1: on the incentives to combat GHG without creating legislation acknowledging

2249
02:11:23,360 --> 02:11:26,080
Speaker 1: the problem. Well, this gets it to the larger issue

2250
02:11:26,400 --> 02:11:33,400
Speaker 1: of I'm not going to get into the details of

2251
02:11:33,400 --> 02:11:35,360
Speaker 1: the bill. I want to get into the larger issue

2252
02:11:35,400 --> 02:11:37,520
Speaker 1: that actually George Conway and I got into, which is

2253
02:11:38,040 --> 02:11:41,440
Speaker 1: Congress is afraid to do its job right. And there

2254
02:11:41,480 --> 02:11:47,040
Speaker 1: had been this, there's been this accepted mindset among congressional

2255
02:11:47,280 --> 02:11:51,200
Speaker 1: leaders in both parties that they're better off keeping language

2256
02:11:51,280 --> 02:11:54,840
Speaker 1: vague because then the executive Branch and the administration and

2257
02:11:54,880 --> 02:11:59,880
Speaker 1: the agencies that then implement can you know, they basically

2258
02:12:00,040 --> 02:12:03,360
Speaker 1: get a second bite to then interpret how the policy

2259
02:12:03,400 --> 02:12:07,080
Speaker 1: gets implemented. Well, that always leads to court cases, which

2260
02:12:07,160 --> 02:12:09,520
Speaker 1: then leads to ambiguous language, which then leads to the

2261
02:12:09,600 --> 02:12:14,000
Speaker 1: court saying no, Congress needs to expressly say what it wants. Ultimately,

2262
02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:18,000
Speaker 1: Congress is the problem on just about every issue. You

2263
02:12:18,080 --> 02:12:24,880
Speaker 1: may be frustrated. And I think this was the problem

2264
02:12:24,960 --> 02:12:28,040
Speaker 1: is that Congress has not been explicit enough in what

2265
02:12:28,240 --> 02:12:33,280
Speaker 1: the authority is. Congress wasn't explicit enough in what in

2266
02:12:33,400 --> 02:12:36,480
Speaker 1: what the h in what exactly they wanted the EPA

2267
02:12:36,720 --> 02:12:41,760
Speaker 1: to regulate. They were essentially, you know, they in so

2268
02:12:41,920 --> 02:12:44,400
Speaker 1: many of these bills, it's sort of up to eight

2269
02:12:44,520 --> 02:12:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, up to the interpretation of the agency experts

2270
02:12:48,240 --> 02:12:51,680
Speaker 1: or you know, and I you know, it's this idea

2271
02:12:51,680 --> 02:12:54,800
Speaker 1: of well, you know, and I think in fairness, right,

2272
02:12:54,880 --> 02:12:57,880
Speaker 1: Congress doesn't know the specific Sometimes you've got to let

2273
02:12:58,040 --> 02:13:02,840
Speaker 1: experts sort of determine the best parts of implementation. But

2274
02:13:02,960 --> 02:13:05,080
Speaker 1: a lot of times Congress is just hiding so that

2275
02:13:05,200 --> 02:13:07,880
Speaker 1: they can they don't have to be declarative on what

2276
02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:14,640
Speaker 1: they've agreed upon in their bill. So I think that's

2277
02:13:14,720 --> 02:13:17,880
Speaker 1: the issue. And it is a lot harder to get

2278
02:13:17,960 --> 02:13:20,160
Speaker 1: certain members of Congress, like it was going to be

2279
02:13:20,200 --> 02:13:22,320
Speaker 1: easier to get Mansion to agree to something if you

2280
02:13:22,520 --> 02:13:28,320
Speaker 1: kept in ambiguous what exactly what exactly the authority of

2281
02:13:28,320 --> 02:13:31,440
Speaker 1: the APA would be, that implying that there was always

2282
02:13:31,480 --> 02:13:34,560
Speaker 1: going to be a second negotiation on the implementation process.

2283
02:13:34,600 --> 02:13:37,000
Speaker 1: The point is, gave the executive branch too much leeway.

2284
02:13:37,040 --> 02:13:39,040
Speaker 1: And when you gave that too much leeway, and then

2285
02:13:39,120 --> 02:13:40,840
Speaker 1: you change the party in the White House who has

2286
02:13:41,320 --> 02:13:44,360
Speaker 1: no interest in implementing the bill based on the way

2287
02:13:44,360 --> 02:13:49,680
Speaker 1: it was it was interpreted when it was passed. So ultimately,

2288
02:13:49,840 --> 02:13:55,960
Speaker 1: the fear that members of Congress have for expressly saying

2289
02:13:56,040 --> 02:13:58,839
Speaker 1: what they hope the legislation does in the legislation itself

2290
02:13:59,400 --> 02:14:02,960
Speaker 1: creates a situations that just invites lawsuits and makes it

2291
02:14:03,040 --> 02:14:05,920
Speaker 1: easier for courts to intervene. And this is you know, look,

2292
02:14:06,000 --> 02:14:07,760
Speaker 1: I can go back. I think Congress has not been

2293
02:14:07,800 --> 02:14:13,240
Speaker 1: doing it. You know, job arguablieve. You know, we keep

2294
02:14:13,280 --> 02:14:15,120
Speaker 1: we had to go to the courts to desegregate the schools.

2295
02:14:15,160 --> 02:14:17,120
Speaker 1: We get a you know, it's always you always had

2296
02:14:17,120 --> 02:14:20,120
Speaker 1: to go to the courts because of the ambiguous nature

2297
02:14:20,560 --> 02:14:24,640
Speaker 1: or the fear that Congress has of stepping out on

2298
02:14:24,760 --> 02:14:27,760
Speaker 1: certain things and trying to codify things in the law.

2299
02:14:28,920 --> 02:14:32,600
Speaker 1: So I know there's some specific she wanted me to

2300
02:14:32,680 --> 02:14:35,280
Speaker 1: dive into on that, and there's a part of me

2301
02:14:35,400 --> 02:14:37,840
Speaker 1: that I got to I almost want to give this

2302
02:14:37,960 --> 02:14:39,320
Speaker 1: to my daughter and make her do it as a

2303
02:14:39,360 --> 02:14:43,720
Speaker 1: homework assignment, since she's my marine biology major on that front,

2304
02:14:43,760 --> 02:14:48,360
Speaker 1: and she's been studying this and and sort of all

2305
02:14:48,400 --> 02:14:50,680
Speaker 1: of this stuff, and it's a lot more conversant than

2306
02:14:50,680 --> 02:14:53,040
Speaker 1: I am on some of the stuff. Mark, So thank you.

2307
02:14:54,640 --> 02:14:57,480
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Jason Any writes, Hey, I've heard

2308
02:14:57,520 --> 02:15:00,200
Speaker 1: you mentioned a few times that we do not each

2309
02:15:00,280 --> 02:15:02,320
Speaker 1: the collapse of the Ottoman Empire enough in classes to

2310
02:15:02,360 --> 02:15:04,760
Speaker 1: contextualize the Middle East today. You have articles, books to

2311
02:15:04,800 --> 02:15:06,800
Speaker 1: recommend to help and teach you better understand the situation

2312
02:15:06,880 --> 02:15:09,640
Speaker 1: and how the artificial borders led to the ethnic nationalism

2313
02:15:09,720 --> 02:15:11,560
Speaker 1: and tensions we see in the region today. PS. Thanks

2314
02:15:11,600 --> 02:15:14,440
Speaker 1: for talking to my class at SJC in September October.

2315
02:15:14,520 --> 02:15:19,200
Speaker 1: Fun and turbulence certainly for y'all. A season for both

2316
02:15:19,240 --> 02:15:23,240
Speaker 1: of our football teams all miss for me. Hey, Jason,

2317
02:15:23,320 --> 02:15:27,600
Speaker 1: thanks for saying that, and I look, man, I enjoy anytime,

2318
02:15:27,960 --> 02:15:30,880
Speaker 1: bite me anytime, I will be there. Like I said,

2319
02:15:31,120 --> 02:15:34,200
Speaker 1: I actually you're not the first person ask me for

2320
02:15:34,280 --> 02:15:36,920
Speaker 1: a few recommendations So here are the two recommendations I gave.

2321
02:15:38,240 --> 02:15:40,160
Speaker 1: Both have been written in the twenty first century, which

2322
02:15:40,200 --> 02:15:42,640
Speaker 1: I think means you'll get the context you need. One

2323
02:15:43,200 --> 02:15:46,280
Speaker 1: is by Eugene Rogan. He's a prominent American historian, director

2324
02:15:46,280 --> 02:15:48,839
Speaker 1: of the Middle East Center at Saint Antony's College in Oxford.

2325
02:15:49,680 --> 02:15:51,920
Speaker 1: So Oxford to Oxford for you there, Jason. It's called

2326
02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:55,160
Speaker 1: Fall of the Ottomans. Rogan's central argument is that the

2327
02:15:55,200 --> 02:15:59,160
Speaker 1: Ottomans weren't merely passive victims or minor players, but fought

2328
02:15:59,200 --> 02:16:04,320
Speaker 1: a genuinely sick, magnificant war across multiple fronts, and the

2329
02:16:04,360 --> 02:16:08,240
Speaker 1: book draws heavily on Ottoman, Arabic and Turkish sources alongside

2330
02:16:08,280 --> 02:16:11,360
Speaker 1: British and other Allied documents. Point is that the reason

2331
02:16:11,440 --> 02:16:13,360
Speaker 1: this book is good is because it uses more Arab

2332
02:16:13,440 --> 02:16:17,000
Speaker 1: sources and Turkish sources, so much of how we've taught

2333
02:16:17,080 --> 02:16:19,000
Speaker 1: World War One and even the fall of the Ottoman

2334
02:16:19,040 --> 02:16:21,560
Speaker 1: Empires through the prism of the Brits right and the

2335
02:16:21,600 --> 02:16:24,200
Speaker 1: French and the European side of things, rather than from

2336
02:16:24,240 --> 02:16:26,600
Speaker 1: the essentially the Arab side of things to get a

2337
02:16:26,640 --> 02:16:30,000
Speaker 1: more complete picture. The second book worth reading is another

2338
02:16:30,080 --> 02:16:33,400
Speaker 1: terrific one. The Ottoman Road to War in nineteen fourteen

2339
02:16:33,440 --> 02:16:38,520
Speaker 1: by Mustafa Oxakil. He's a respected Ottoman historian. He teaches

2340
02:16:38,560 --> 02:16:40,480
Speaker 1: it Georgetown, so here in my neck of the woods.

2341
02:16:40,480 --> 02:16:42,320
Speaker 1: His core argument is the Ottoman entry into the war

2342
02:16:42,760 --> 02:16:47,200
Speaker 1: was a calculated decision, driven by Ottoman leaders, particularly who

2343
02:16:47,280 --> 02:16:50,800
Speaker 1: saw the war as an opportunity to restore prestige to

2344
02:16:50,840 --> 02:16:55,120
Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire after the devastating Balkan War losses. So

2345
02:16:57,360 --> 02:16:59,680
Speaker 1: what's good about that one again is that it is

2346
02:16:59,760 --> 02:17:01,760
Speaker 1: more from the perspective of the Ottoman side rather than

2347
02:17:01,800 --> 02:17:05,160
Speaker 1: always writing from the perspective of the German side. But

2348
02:17:05,360 --> 02:17:07,879
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of you know, trying to understand sort

2349
02:17:07,879 --> 02:17:11,360
Speaker 1: of the post war of that. And like I said,

2350
02:17:11,760 --> 02:17:14,160
Speaker 1: a couple of drunk Brits and Frenchmen decided to draw

2351
02:17:14,200 --> 02:17:16,360
Speaker 1: these straight lines in the Middle East. YadA, YadA, YadA.

2352
02:17:16,400 --> 02:17:19,760
Speaker 1: We've had nothing but outbreaks of war ever since. But

2353
02:17:19,920 --> 02:17:22,360
Speaker 1: those are my two recommendations there for you, and I

2354
02:17:22,600 --> 02:17:25,240
Speaker 1: just wanted to stay consistent. It's also a pretty good

2355
02:17:25,879 --> 02:17:28,720
Speaker 1: hardcore history on this, Dan Carlin, He's done it. There's

2356
02:17:28,720 --> 02:17:32,480
Speaker 1: a few others. A good history podcast is sometimes better

2357
02:17:32,879 --> 02:17:37,240
Speaker 1: than some of the books, all right, I got two

2358
02:17:37,280 --> 02:17:42,920
Speaker 1: more questions here. I'm gonna go three more questions. Well,

2359
02:17:42,959 --> 02:17:44,280
Speaker 1: we'll see. I got I gotta get out of here.

2360
02:17:44,800 --> 02:17:47,520
Speaker 1: I got a heart out on this recording moment here.

2361
02:17:48,680 --> 02:17:50,920
Speaker 1: But you don't need to do know all of that stuff,

2362
02:17:51,440 --> 02:17:54,119
Speaker 1: Jay and New York Rights. You've done multiple top five

2363
02:17:54,160 --> 02:17:55,879
Speaker 1: lists on Senate and governor's races. But I was wondering

2364
02:17:55,920 --> 02:17:57,400
Speaker 1: if you had a handful of house races that you

2365
02:17:57,440 --> 02:17:59,160
Speaker 1: were keeping an eye on. Even if it's just two

2366
02:17:59,240 --> 02:18:01,240
Speaker 1: or three house races, which ones are you watching closely?

2367
02:18:01,280 --> 02:18:01,560
Speaker 2: And why?

2368
02:18:01,640 --> 02:18:03,960
Speaker 1: Beyond the more well known toss up seats, I'm curious

2369
02:18:03,959 --> 02:18:06,080
Speaker 1: about races like North Carolina eleven, Tennessee five, and the

2370
02:18:06,160 --> 02:18:11,560
Speaker 1: safer red Colorado districts. I will tell you that my

2371
02:18:11,680 --> 02:18:15,000
Speaker 1: obsession is are the Iowa congressional districts one, two, and three.

2372
02:18:15,720 --> 02:18:20,040
Speaker 1: Iowa in general is, to me, is the Petri dish

2373
02:18:20,120 --> 02:18:22,960
Speaker 1: of whether the Democrats can be a full on national

2374
02:18:23,040 --> 02:18:27,360
Speaker 1: party again and whether they can get congressional majorities and

2375
02:18:27,480 --> 02:18:30,440
Speaker 1: they can get a Senate majority. Iowa sort of holds

2376
02:18:30,480 --> 02:18:34,720
Speaker 1: the key. Those three seats are swingy seats. You can't drum.

2377
02:18:35,879 --> 02:18:40,240
Speaker 1: You couldn't Jerry Manderum if you wanted to, but I

2378
02:18:40,320 --> 02:18:43,120
Speaker 1: think even you just couldn't figure out how to do

2379
02:18:43,240 --> 02:18:46,320
Speaker 1: it because all the population are in the bluer areas

2380
02:18:46,440 --> 02:18:52,160
Speaker 1: and stuff. So it is I think that those three

2381
02:18:53,840 --> 02:18:59,760
Speaker 1: are the best bell weathers because they're so closely contested

2382
02:18:59,800 --> 02:19:06,080
Speaker 1: by party, because they also include some rural parts. So

2383
02:19:06,520 --> 02:19:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, if Republican turnout is under under is sort

2384
02:19:13,760 --> 02:19:19,000
Speaker 1: of underwhelming in rural areas, democratic turnout is up. I

2385
02:19:19,080 --> 02:19:21,480
Speaker 1: always a place you should see it come to life.

2386
02:19:21,640 --> 02:19:24,880
Speaker 1: And then that's the difference between Democrats winning those congressionals

2387
02:19:24,959 --> 02:19:27,640
Speaker 1: and districts and losing them. They when they've lost them,

2388
02:19:27,640 --> 02:19:29,480
Speaker 1: they narrowly lose them. When they win them, they narrowly

2389
02:19:29,520 --> 02:19:33,640
Speaker 1: win them. Right, So you know, look, we can I

2390
02:19:33,720 --> 02:19:37,000
Speaker 1: can cherry pick interesting races. I you know, I get

2391
02:19:37,080 --> 02:19:39,880
Speaker 1: why you're interested in Tennessee five. You know, maybe right

2392
02:19:39,959 --> 02:19:42,560
Speaker 1: there's if you're going to find one competitive seat in Tennessee,

2393
02:19:42,600 --> 02:19:45,440
Speaker 1: it might be that one. I'm very curious to see

2394
02:19:45,440 --> 02:19:48,920
Speaker 1: what happens along the h on the other side of

2395
02:19:48,920 --> 02:19:53,119
Speaker 1: the Rockies. That's a seat that in really bad Republican

2396
02:19:53,200 --> 02:19:55,520
Speaker 1: years has flipped to the Democrats. So I get your

2397
02:19:55,560 --> 02:20:01,080
Speaker 1: interested in some of the Redder, Colifornia, Colorado districts. I

2398
02:20:01,160 --> 02:20:03,480
Speaker 1: think those If you're asking me for what are the

2399
02:20:03,760 --> 02:20:05,560
Speaker 1: and I will get to that. I will give you

2400
02:20:05,920 --> 02:20:08,320
Speaker 1: when we get closer, the five seats that will tell

2401
02:20:08,440 --> 02:20:11,400
Speaker 1: me that can help me directionally know which way the

2402
02:20:11,440 --> 02:20:15,360
Speaker 1: winds are blowing and how you know? Will the Democrats

2403
02:20:15,400 --> 02:20:17,640
Speaker 1: have a good night, great night, or an incredible night

2404
02:20:18,879 --> 02:20:21,360
Speaker 1: or a bad night? You know, not winning the House

2405
02:20:21,400 --> 02:20:23,920
Speaker 1: at this point would be considered a bad night. All right.

2406
02:20:24,000 --> 02:20:28,960
Speaker 1: Next question comes from email from Lenexa, Kansas. Anyway, Hey,

2407
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:30,840
Speaker 1: in today's podcast, you are more optimistic than I am

2408
02:20:30,840 --> 02:20:33,640
Speaker 1: about Congress passing a pardon reform bill. Given Trump's veto

2409
02:20:33,640 --> 02:20:36,200
Speaker 1: power and the Republican Party's unwillingness to challenge him, I

2410
02:20:36,280 --> 02:20:39,119
Speaker 1: see little chance of it passing even if Democrats control

2411
02:20:39,160 --> 02:20:40,800
Speaker 1: both chambers in twenty twenty six. I stand by my

2412
02:20:40,840 --> 02:20:43,360
Speaker 1: earlier point. The only realistic path is fully eliminating the

2413
02:20:43,400 --> 02:20:46,640
Speaker 1: president's pardon powers I outlined in my prior email. I look,

2414
02:20:46,920 --> 02:20:48,920
Speaker 1: that's where I'm at. I think it's I think we

2415
02:20:48,959 --> 02:20:50,240
Speaker 1: had to get rid of I think we had to

2416
02:20:50,280 --> 02:20:53,280
Speaker 1: create a pardon board. But if you're asking me, what's

2417
02:20:53,320 --> 02:20:55,720
Speaker 1: a constitutional amendment that I think could get two thirds

2418
02:20:56,120 --> 02:20:59,000
Speaker 1: a support in Congress. It's the one that's been outlined

2419
02:20:59,520 --> 02:21:03,920
Speaker 1: because it is a nullification. It is asking for a

2420
02:21:04,040 --> 02:21:07,600
Speaker 1: super majority in order to even trigger the nullification of

2421
02:21:07,640 --> 02:21:15,280
Speaker 1: the pardon. It it feels like and it and you

2422
02:21:15,400 --> 02:21:20,199
Speaker 1: know it's look, president can't veto a constitutional amendment because

2423
02:21:20,200 --> 02:21:22,120
Speaker 1: it would in order for it to get out of

2424
02:21:22,240 --> 02:21:24,120
Speaker 1: Congress and has to get two third support, So it's

2425
02:21:24,440 --> 02:21:27,440
Speaker 1: essentially veto proof. So there's no there's no role there

2426
02:21:27,520 --> 02:21:30,840
Speaker 1: for the president for what it's worth on that. So

2427
02:21:31,120 --> 02:21:34,600
Speaker 1: that isn't the issue. If you're worried about that. The

2428
02:21:34,720 --> 02:21:37,000
Speaker 1: question is whether Trump turns it into a litmus test

2429
02:21:37,000 --> 02:21:40,000
Speaker 1: against himself or if is it something that you let

2430
02:21:40,280 --> 02:21:44,320
Speaker 1: sit there, slowly gain support and the second there's a

2431
02:21:44,360 --> 02:21:47,480
Speaker 1: new president, you pass it and you send it to

2432
02:21:47,520 --> 02:21:55,640
Speaker 1: the States. This is where don't let the enemy of

2433
02:21:55,680 --> 02:21:59,880
Speaker 1: the enemy of the perfect? What is it? What's that for?

2434
02:22:00,560 --> 02:22:03,240
Speaker 1: Don't let the uh don't let the perfect be the

2435
02:22:03,360 --> 02:22:07,560
Speaker 1: enemy of the good. And that is why I might

2436
02:22:08,360 --> 02:22:13,720
Speaker 1: like that's I creating a check on the president's pardon

2437
02:22:13,800 --> 02:22:18,359
Speaker 1: power is better than nothing. And what what I admire

2438
02:22:18,440 --> 02:22:23,840
Speaker 1: about that this pardon reform bill is that it's clearly

2439
02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:28,240
Speaker 1: written in a way to try to get as bipartisan

2440
02:22:28,879 --> 02:22:30,920
Speaker 1: of a group of people behind this as you possibly can.

2441
02:22:33,160 --> 02:22:36,800
Speaker 1: All right, final question, Uh Jim from Saint Paul, Minnesota. Hey, check,

2442
02:22:36,800 --> 02:22:38,920
Speaker 1: I love the podcast. I'm a full episode kind of guy.

2443
02:22:39,120 --> 02:22:41,240
Speaker 1: Like to hear that. I know which you know who

2444
02:22:41,280 --> 02:22:43,640
Speaker 1: you are? In your segment about one term president, you

2445
02:22:43,640 --> 02:22:45,960
Speaker 1: said that several loss because they were not politically astute,

2446
02:22:45,959 --> 02:22:47,959
Speaker 1: if they were not politically adept, how do they win

2447
02:22:48,040 --> 02:22:52,280
Speaker 1: in the first place? Because they won by being you

2448
02:22:52,360 --> 02:22:55,600
Speaker 1: know who, they weren't right, or you know, George H. W.

2449
02:22:55,760 --> 02:22:58,360
Speaker 1: Bush won because he wasn't Michael Ducacas. He made Michael

2450
02:22:58,400 --> 02:23:02,400
Speaker 1: Ducacca's unacceptable car one because the country was just going

2451
02:23:02,480 --> 02:23:05,400
Speaker 1: to fire. Any Democrat was going to win in seventy six, right,

2452
02:23:05,520 --> 02:23:08,680
Speaker 1: And you know, we like the idea of electing a

2453
02:23:08,720 --> 02:23:12,480
Speaker 1: guy who promised he'd never you know, he'd never lie,

2454
02:23:12,760 --> 02:23:15,440
Speaker 1: and he'd always tell us the truth. So I think

2455
02:23:15,520 --> 02:23:18,720
Speaker 1: that you're not wrong. I mean, look, I think when

2456
02:23:18,760 --> 02:23:20,680
Speaker 1: you you know, if you're asking me, if we ever

2457
02:23:20,680 --> 02:23:23,000
Speaker 1: had a political Hall of Fame, anybody who won the

2458
02:23:23,040 --> 02:23:25,480
Speaker 1: presidency to me would automatically get entry.

2459
02:23:25,640 --> 02:23:25,760
Speaker 2: Right.

2460
02:23:25,840 --> 02:23:28,640
Speaker 1: It's like it's like hitting it's like hitting six hundred

2461
02:23:28,680 --> 02:23:30,840
Speaker 1: home runs. You know, I'm gonna put you in no

2462
02:23:30,959 --> 02:23:36,160
Speaker 1: matter what, unless you really prove you cheated. And but

2463
02:23:37,040 --> 02:23:39,760
Speaker 1: a lot of times these one term presidents they won

2464
02:23:39,920 --> 02:23:44,680
Speaker 1: because of who they weren't, and that's usually why it's

2465
02:23:44,840 --> 02:23:48,240
Speaker 1: much harder for them to keep traction and stay in office.

2466
02:23:48,600 --> 02:23:52,920
Speaker 1: All right, with that, let's take a what are we

2467
02:23:52,959 --> 02:23:57,520
Speaker 1: looking at here? Seventy two hour break and barring war

2468
02:23:57,560 --> 02:24:00,320
Speaker 1: with Iran before Monday, I'll see about it.

2469
02:24:02,959 --> 02:24:03,000
Speaker 2: Y