1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: it just means the absolute world to have your support. 8 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: But enough with that, Let's get to the show. All right, 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Counterpoints. I'm Ryan Graham here with Emily Jashinski. 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: Good morning, Emily, Good morning, Ryan. How are you. I'm good. 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: We've got some job numbers out. So the economy added 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty six thousand jobs, which is less 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: than people were hoping for, And so CNBC and the 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: Fed and all these people are celebrating. But to put 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: that in context, if they were expecting four hundred thousand jobs, 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: then about one hundred and fifty thousand people that were 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: that applied for job and we're hoping to get it 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: didn't get it. Or or companies who felt like they 19 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: were growing at a particular pace now have realized that 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: they're not growing as much as they were, so they 21 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: actually pulled that job opening, So lots of misery spreading 22 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: throughout the economy. So congratulations to the fed into Wall Street. 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: I was going to say, there are human beings behind 24 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: those metrics, and in this case, tens of thousands of 25 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: them affected by it. There's also new Title nine regulations, 26 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: a proposed new rule in Title nine that we'll get 27 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: to actually next week. It's like one hundred and fifty 28 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: pages long, and this is around transgender transgender competition sports. Right. 29 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with the kind of kangaroo 30 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: court question of how sexual assault claims are adjudicated, but 31 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: around transgender sport participation. It's really long, and we wanted 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: to make sure that we had the best take on 33 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: it possible and not Russian to judgment. So we'll certainly 34 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: cover that next week. I hope. Meanwhile, we've got a 35 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: war breaking out. You had, so if you've been following 36 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: the conflict in Israel, you had Israeli forces raided the 37 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: Aloxa Mosque several times, might have seen the visuals of 38 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: the beatings of people during Ramadan prayers there. You've had 39 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: so far, I think Summer League, Corey Bush and Rashida 40 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: Talib have denounced it, but that's kind of it out 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: of the United States Congress. Since then, Lebanon launched a 42 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: couple of strikes towards Israel. Seems like they were all intercepted. 43 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: Israel responded not just by striking Lebanon, but I also 44 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: bombing Gaza, which is like, wait, how does that work? 45 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: Lebanon sends missiles your way and you are going to 46 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: bomb Gaza as a result. So that's where we are now. 47 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: We're probably going to see some retaliation now from Gaza, 48 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: if I can imagine. We've also seen more Palestinians killed 49 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: in the occupied territories in the first four months than 50 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: we've seen in decades. Big escalation this week. And on 51 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: that note, we have big news out of Ukraine as well. 52 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: We're going to get to that in just a bit. 53 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: We're going to really dive into some breaking news that 54 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: transpired yesterday. But before we do that, we wanted to 55 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: take a look at feud that's brewing between Meddi Hassen 56 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: and Matt Taibi Ran. Did you get a chance to 57 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: sort of pick through this? Yeah, and so my rule 58 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: for life is always do not debate Meddi, and that 59 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: rule remains undefeated. But we can get into some of 60 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: the nuances of it. Let's so basically Matt ty So 61 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, Meddi went after Matt Tayibi saying, look, 62 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: look what Elon Musk's Twitter is doing to critics of 63 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: Modi in India. Why won't you speak out on that? 64 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: Tayebe responded, why don't you have me on the show 65 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: and we'll hash this out. So it was a couple 66 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: of weeks ago. So now Tayibi went on Meddi's show. 67 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: So let's play a couple of clips from from that exchange. 68 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: You said the EP was founded in response to the 69 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: government dropping its proposal for disinformation governments with there you are, 70 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: were quoting you on screen. It wasn't It was formed 71 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: two years earlier. You suggested it was government funded, even 72 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: though during the twenty election twenty twenty election that you're covering, 73 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't you say they labeled twenty two million tweets 74 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: as misinformation in the run up to the twenty twenty vote. 75 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: They didn't. They got They flagged three thousand election misinformation 76 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: tweets for labeling. So you were only twenty one million, 77 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: nine hundred and ninety seven thousand off You also claim 78 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: the ep was partnered with the government Cybersecurity and Infrastructure 79 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: Agency SISSA to sensor Twitter, But you mix up SISSA, CISA, 80 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: a homeland security agency with the Center for Internet Security, 81 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: the CIS, which is a nonprofit And it's just error 82 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: after error map on just this one hundred, but the 83 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: other the other ones aren't. No, No, twenty two million 84 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: from their own report. Yeah, it came from a report 85 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: in March. Twitter. Do you know what twenty two million 86 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: number is? Mat Can you tell me? Because we checked. 87 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: Twenty two million is the number of tweets about election 88 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: misinformation that were just that they just mapped. How many 89 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: tweets were they the ones they actually flagged to Twitter 90 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: before the election? Twenty two million came after the election. 91 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: It wasn't in the runoup They flagged three thousand, So 92 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: you were off by twenty one million, nine hundred and 93 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: ninety seven a lot of things. I stand by my story, 94 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: you stand by what's do you stand by? Twenty two 95 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: million were flagged in the run up to the election, 96 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: even though that number came in March twenty twenty one, 97 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: which was after the election. No, that's this came in 98 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: there report after the election. Okay, so Matt responded on Twitter, 99 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: I think we have some of that that we can 100 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: put up on the screen here. But someone told him 101 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: to take the L. And this is a different quote. 102 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: He said, you know, part of the job is facing critics, 103 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: and I went on medi's show today and basically I 104 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: was open to the criticism. I made corrections where they 105 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: were warranted. He also said, no, I will not take 106 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: the L. A misplaced acronym and a wrong date don't 107 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: invalidate the months of important work. Nearly doesnen journalists, including 108 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: Michael Schellenberger, Bery Wiss myself put in so that the 109 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: public could see the breadth of state censorship, of the 110 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: state censorship program. Reaction to that exchange, Yes, the whole 111 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: thing's kind of disappointing on so many different levels because 112 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: they don't end up having a conversation about the substance. 113 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: Like it's people just moving into their camps and they're 114 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: still kind of fighting about this twenty two million. Matt 115 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: has said, no, my reading of this is that there 116 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: was twenty two that were flagged before the election. The 117 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: folks who did the report have said no, that you're 118 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: misreading it. It was the twenty two million, we flagged 119 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: after the election. But even if that, even if that's true, 120 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: three thousand is also a lot. Yes, it's a little. 121 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: Thousand is a ton, and flagging twenty two million after 122 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: the election shows you what they want to do in 123 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: the next election, right, right, So it would be nice 124 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: if they would kind of debate the substance, like is 125 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: this how we want various government agencies interacting with social 126 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: media organizations or not? And to Matt's credit, on the 127 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 1: other two pieces where Mehdi caught him with errors, he said, 128 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to correct those errors. Those are errors, but 129 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: they don't they kind of even change the fundamental thrust 130 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: of the story. The other disappointing thing was that Matt 131 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: actually hadn't read up on the Modi thing. I thought 132 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: that was interesting, which was like that was the reason 133 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: that he said, invite me on the show and I'll 134 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: talk about it, right, And he had two weeks to 135 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: talk about to brush up on it. It looked like, 136 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: and I do this all the time. You go on 137 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: a show, You're like, oh God, I'm supposed to be 138 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: on this show thirty seconds like that is that's the 139 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: only way I appear on shows, including this one. I'm kidding. 140 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: I know ahead of time when I'm supposed to be 141 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: on this one, It's like Maddy'll be like, Hey, can 142 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: you come on and talk about this thing? Sure? And 143 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: then I'm always asking the producers what are we talking about? 144 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: So and it felt that way. It's like, oh, but 145 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: it's like, because Matt had said, I'll come on the 146 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: show to talk about this, right, then at least check 147 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: into what Musk is doing in India. And it would 148 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: be so easy to be like, you know what, yeah, 149 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: I'm I do. Musk is not my employee. I am 150 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: not Musk's employee. I disagree with Musk's decision on this 151 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: particular issue, or I agree with Musk's decision on this 152 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: particular issue, It's fine, Like it's not going to hurt 153 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: him one way or the other. And so you know, 154 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: we could We'll reach out to him and see what 155 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: his take is when he gets a chance to actually 156 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: look into the and my read my read on this 157 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: was a little different in that I think what Matt 158 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: was trying to do is make a point that I'm 159 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: not playing this game. That's my assumption of what he 160 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: was doing. Because what Matti's doing is nitpicking errors. A 161 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: couple of them were actual errors. I think one of 162 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: them is definitely more questionable, and Matt was happy to 163 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: correct them. The breadth of what he's been doing with 164 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: the Twitter files, I mean it is it's a lot 165 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: of reporting and a lot of writing, so it's you know, 166 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: of course there are mistakes in there. As much as 167 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: he may try to mitigate them, and I'm sure he does, 168 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: nobody wants to be corrected, knowing the whole world is 169 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: out there and every you know, established center of power 170 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: is out there looking to discredit you. So I mean 171 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: it's in his own interest to mitigate the errors. That said, 172 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: Matti is nitpicking instead of really dealing with the central 173 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: question of state censorship. To your point, like, why are 174 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: we debating threeenty twenty two million the date? You know 175 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely worth a correction, but why are we 176 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: getting hung up and yelling at each other over that 177 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: when Matt has exposed rightfully, is this huge operation to 178 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: censor and target heterodox American thought. That's a real problem. 179 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: And the way I read him was, I'm not getting 180 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: into this. I don't know. Maybe this is a charitable 181 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: read on the situation, but I'm not getting into this 182 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: because I'm not going to play the game where you 183 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: deflect from this much larger question. Even if that wasn't 184 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: his intention, I think that was the most disappointing part 185 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,599 Speaker 1: of this is the deflection from the larger question. I 186 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: don't think that's there's a journalistic high ground or a 187 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: moral high ground in deflecting on that point. I wish 188 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: matt had an answer to the Modi question, and maybe 189 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: you will. I'm sure you'll check in with him on that. 190 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: But this is the bigger question here is obvious, right, 191 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: and it gives the kind of anti Musk and anti 192 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: Twitter files although I'm kind I'm kind of like Twitter 193 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: files and anti Musk weird kind of Uh, there's no 194 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: overlap other than me in that in that category. But 195 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: it gives people who want to dismiss it. They now 196 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: they're going to say, oh, that was debunked by Mattie. Yes. 197 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: Reporting to Metti would say, May would say no, no no, no, 198 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: I didn't debunk the entire thing. What I did is 199 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: I identified some errors. It brought them to his attention, 200 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: and he has agreed to correct those errors. But he's 201 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: not going to say that the entire thing was as 202 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: a result debunked. But the viewers are going to take 203 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: that away. The viewer. You'll watch watch Matt's mentions and 204 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: replies on Twitter over the next couple of weeks, It'll 205 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: just be people throwing like the medi interview Adam saying, 206 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: is the whole, the whole Twitter the whole Twitter file 207 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: thing is completely discredited now, which is just a way 208 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: for people to not kind of grapple with these these 209 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: issues and instead do the easier thing, which is retreat 210 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: into tribes. Yeah. I agree, And my big takeaway from it, 211 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: honestly was how hard it is to have good faith 212 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: conversations in the cable format. It's interesting because you're looking 213 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: at the screen and you see Matt with his podcast 214 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: Mike because he's got his SM seven B, and you 215 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: see Mehdi in the Tony MSNBC studio, and it's just 216 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: like such a perfect juxtaposition of Matt, who I think 217 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: is more used to these days the podcast format because MSNBC, 218 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: as he explained on his substat last night, stopped having 219 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: him after he threw some cold water on like Malcolm 220 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: Nance's weird rantings and ratings about Russia collusion. But it's 221 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: just really hard to have a good faith exchange and 222 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: not retreat into camps and to really get to the substance. 223 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: It's very difficult to do that in the cable news setting, 224 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: and I think that's why people, especially younger people, are 225 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: pulling away from it. Yeah. Right, there's so much more 226 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: time to breathe than to think. Right, Although if I 227 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: wonder if if Matt had strategically gone in and been like, look, 228 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: I'm with you on MODI, if that would have opened 229 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: up space for that conversation to breathe more. It's interesting 230 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: maybe not like Meddi is a knife fighter's like I 231 00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: interviewed him for my podcast a couple of weeks ago, 232 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: his career in debating. He's just an absolutely extraordinary debater, 233 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: even if he's wrong. Like I've said, I wouldn't debate 234 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: him about whether the world is round. It's too dangerous. Yeah, 235 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: forget it. I'd come out and be like, maybe it's flat. 236 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: It's hard to say. Who can say. Well, big news 237 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: out of Ukraine Yesterday The New York Times revealed that 238 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: classified war documents. This is per their report detailing secret 239 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: American and NATO plans for building up the Ukrainian military 240 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: ahead of a planned offensive against Russia, were posted on 241 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: social media channels. According to senior Biden administration officials, the 242 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: Pentagon doesn't know who's behind the leak of this document. 243 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: The New York Times was reporting that military analysts look 244 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: at it. They say the documents seem to have been 245 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: modified in certain parts, overstating American estimates of how many 246 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: Ukrainians have died, and then understating our estimates of how 247 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: many Russian troops have been killed. Now that they say 248 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: could point to this being a disinformation effort on behalf 249 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: of Russia. Ryan, what do you make of this? Ukraine 250 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: was already hesitant to share intelligence with the United States, 251 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: to the point where some of our military officials were 252 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: saying we would know more about Russia's battle plans than 253 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: Ukraine's at certain points in this war. This has to 254 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: almost totally disrupt that once again. Yeah, and so even 255 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: though there are some figures that they're saying are inaccurate 256 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: in here, the US intelligence is also clearly basically authenticating 257 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: what's out there circulating mostly on telegram at this point. 258 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: And what's important for Russia in there is that it's 259 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: given a lot of details about American and Ukrainian capacity 260 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: that they didn't have before. For instance, it lists, according 261 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: to the Times, how long it takes basically a Hymar's 262 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: unit to get worn down. That these are those missiles 263 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: that you see that are quite mobile and good at 264 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: hitting those AMMO depots or other locations, and then they 265 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: could quickly move around. Russia didn't know how long, how 266 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: long they would last, how quickly they could be replenished. 267 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: Now they have that kind of information, They have information 268 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: on the size of the trained battalions that are going 269 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: to be coming. It looks like something like sixty thousand, 270 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: mostly US trained Ukrainian troops will be ready, half of 271 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: them roughly by March first, the other half by like 272 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: April towards the end of April, sorry April first or 273 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: the end of April, which also then gives a signal 274 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: that this offensive that they've been talking about launching is 275 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: coming that or at least certainly the equipment, material and 276 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: the manpower is going to be delivered there. So it 277 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: does give Russia some advantage, and it gives, like you said, 278 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: some psychological advantage because it'll end up disrupting intelligence sharing 279 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: further between Ukraine Russia, Ukraine and the United States. But 280 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: it does seem like we are looking for another expansion 281 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: acceleration of the war over the next coming weeks and months. Absolutely, yeah, 282 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: And to your point, timetables for the delivery of weapons 283 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: and troops according to the Times Ukrainian troop build up numbers. 284 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: And to be fair, this is a snapshot of intelligence 285 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: from a few weeks ago in March first, so things 286 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: obviously could have changed. But military analysts and military officials 287 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: are obviously nervous about this. That's the implication of their 288 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: reaction is authenticating. Essentially, they've essentially authenticated it by their reaction, 289 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: and they've also telegraphed I think some real concerns about 290 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: the potential here. I wanted to ask you, in this 291 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: broader context of how we've been expecting an offensive this spring, 292 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: what does this look like in terms of how that 293 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: now might play out. Does this, you know, is this 294 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: really like severely hampering what the United States and NATO 295 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: was expecting to be an offensive that could put putin 296 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: on his heels and change the trajectory of the war. 297 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: I don't think so, because this has been a war 298 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: where much much has been out in the open. Now 299 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: there's also been a lot of deflection. Like with the 300 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: last offensive that Ukraine successfully pulled off, they had been 301 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: signaling that they were headed toward a particular spot down south. 302 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: Instead they went up Hire and caught Russia off guard there. So, 303 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: but everybody knew there was an offensive that was brewing. 304 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: So that's still own. That's still all that. You basically 305 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: know that there is a there is a very well equipped, 306 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: well trained offensive that's going to be on its way. 307 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: But anybody reading the New York Times, you know, could 308 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: have told you that or just following what's going on 309 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: in Congress, like those billions of dollars are going somewhere, 310 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: like the all the weapons that were shipping over there 311 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: are for a purpose. And you could also look at 312 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: the United States reactions to like China floating a peace 313 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: plan like like absolutely not. And so if if there 314 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: wasn't some type offensive planned, which were publicly saying there is, 315 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: they would have embraced peace plans. So yeah, I the 316 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,959 Speaker 1: I think the best hope that people can have at 317 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: this point is that this offensive will be the last one. 318 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: What's the so it says this is from the Times. 319 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: The modifications could point to an effort of disinformation by Moscow, 320 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: the analyst said, But the disclosures in the original documents, 321 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: which appear as photographs of charts of anticipated weapons deliveries, 322 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: troop and battalion strengths, and other plans, represents a significant 323 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: breach of American intelligence in the effort to aid Ukraine 324 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: when these get posted online with those alleged Russian modifications, 325 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: other than some of the obvious things we've already listed, 326 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, psychological disruption of the intelligence relationship between the 327 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: United States and Ukraine. What is if it's Russia, what 328 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: is the benefit of posting this to telegram and other 329 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: social media channels. But that's a that's a that's a 330 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: good question. I would I would say that it is 331 00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: kind of morale at this point. They they presumably real 332 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: knew that the United States was aware of the breach. 333 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's March first, it happened, so it's you know, 334 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: by now people have figured that out, and so the 335 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: intel had been so one sided on this war that 336 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: I think Russia was kind of embarrassed and felt like 337 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: a JV power. And they've been called the JV power repeatedly, 338 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: and the United States calling their shot like saying like, look, 339 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: you're going to remember there were The US was like, 340 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: you're going to invade on February twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, 341 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: and they're saying this in Lake January or something or December, 342 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: and they're like, no, we're not. These are just training exercises. 343 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: And then they moved there like invasion date by like 344 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: twelve hours, so that the US wouldn't have like nailed 345 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: the exact date that they invaded. Plus they keep locating 346 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: these generals that then get blown up along with all 347 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: sorts of other intelligence coups that the United States then 348 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: very kind of subtly sort of takes credit for, but 349 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: not really. And so I would guess that after they 350 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: had kind of sopped up as much of the intelligence 351 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: as they could, the goal was then to kind of 352 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: embarrass the United States and show that Russia is actually 353 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: still in the game. They're still able to purloin some 354 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: some classified information out of this. And also you want 355 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: Ukraine and this may be the best reason. You want 356 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: Ukraine United States to know publicly that you had somebody 357 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: in there, so that it creates the animosity and the suspicion, 358 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: like that's you know, the benefit of a mole inside 359 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: an organization is almost you know, the benefit is blowing 360 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: the organization up and getting everybody pointing fingers at each 361 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: other almost more than it is getting the information out. 362 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: And so this will lead to a lot of finger 363 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: pointing and probably yeah, it probably already did before we realized. 364 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, over in France. Yeah, another 365 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: part of Europe. Yeah, black Rock getting its headquarters. Sack, 366 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: I should be laughing at the barricade. It's let's put 367 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: this u V one up here. Yeah, that's Blackrock headquarters. 368 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: I can I so I'm telling me if this is 369 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: this is correct. But I'm imagining the right pack in 370 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: the United States being like, see the French are with 371 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: us on woke capitalism and ESG. They're furious about whatever 372 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: the French Blackrock is doing when it comes to like 373 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: it's it's like DEI programming and they're burning it down 374 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: just like we would. Was that the reaction among the 375 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: right here when they saw Blackrock. Blackrock is not going 376 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: up in flames. It's kind of some deceptive reporting there 377 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: because you see the flames, you see black Rock headquarters. 378 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: But actually it was a couple hundred Union people were 379 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: able to get into the building and led some chance 380 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: and then basically left. So they did not burn down 381 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: black Rocks. No, they actually yeah, they didn't actually even 382 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: not yet. Right, they didn't even get to Blackrock're lobby 383 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: or whatever. Right. And it's funny because in the Reuters report, 384 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: Reuters had to disclose the like we have an office, 385 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: same building. That's how we broke this news. Yeah, really 386 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: looked down in the lobby, like, oh, well, to your 387 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: point though, about black Rock becoming this absolute lightning rod 388 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: in the realignment that's happening in the West. I think, 389 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 1: you know, the the kind of new right looks at 390 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: this and says, it's not just about de I and ESG, 391 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: it's about austerity combined with DEI and ESG. And that's 392 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: actually you know, when you have JD. Vance and Donald 393 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: Trump saying we're not touching entitlements, we're not touching Medica, 394 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: we're not touching Medicaid, we're not touching you know, social 395 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: security in the near future, that's that actually goes kind 396 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: of perfectly with what they're seeing unfold in France right now. 397 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: Two year retirement age bump very very unpopular and polling 398 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: I saw one that was like fifty eight percent of 399 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: people disapproved of I think it was mccrone's move to 400 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: sort of jam it through. That's also bypassed the legislature 401 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: because he didn't have the votes. Yeah, that's part of 402 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: what's extremely contentious in this entire question is that, yeah, 403 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: didn't have the votes. He bypassed the legislator legislature. We're 404 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: expecting a decision from the courts in France next week, 405 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: I think on the fourteenth. Who will say whether or 406 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: not what Macron did was what constitutional? Is that the 407 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: right word in They have like one hundred constitutions, right, 408 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: they do a new constitution every couple of years. And 409 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: this is so yesterday it was like the eleventh day 410 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: of the protests. This is all about Macron's proposal to 411 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,239 Speaker 1: go from sixty two to sixty four. He lost his 412 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: majority in parliament last year, so as part of the 413 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: reason he did campaign on all of this. It's not 414 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: like this was a secret plan of his, but wasn't 415 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: able to get it through the legislature. And so I 416 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: think when you combine the potential for Blackrock and it's 417 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: been going on for years. You can go and read 418 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: reports for years the suspicion that Blackrock is going to 419 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: capitalize on something like and actually in one second, we'll 420 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: play the clip, but that Blackrock is going to capitalize 421 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: on privaization of pensions, that you have this American company 422 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: that's going to implement that American austerity and not the 423 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: robust protection system that France hasn't really proud of. Yeah, 424 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: in America. When you combine it with the fact that 425 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: you know, this is a company that is led by elites, 426 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: cultural leftist elites, it's a recipe for getting the right 427 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: on board with leaving pensions alone. There you go, all right, 428 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: let's leave alone. Yeah, let's play this, uh, this clip 429 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: that we've got from more Perfect Union. So my favorite 430 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: sign in the protests so far explaining why they were 431 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: protesting the increase in the retirement age was we're French 432 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: for a reason, which to me, actually that's perfect, that 433 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. Like you're fighting for a way of life. 434 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: You are French for a reason, and so why why 435 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: give that up? If you if you want to be German, 436 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: be German. If you want to be something else, be 437 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: something else. But they're French and they're fighting for their 438 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: identity and it's weird also to see the push towards 439 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: austerity and towards working longer hours and working longer in 440 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: your life at the same time that we have all 441 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: this talk about UBI and the productivity gains that are 442 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: going to come from AI, and they're going to just 443 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: lead to this apocaly job apocalypse that's going to put 444 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: everybody out of work. So which is it, like we are, 445 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: do we have too few jobs or do we not 446 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: have old people working long enough like we need to. 447 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: We need to line up which way we're headed. And 448 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: to me, if we're going to have fewer jobs in 449 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: the future because the robots are going to take them all, 450 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: then what do we need these old frenchmen and French women, 451 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: you know, working until their sixty three years old. Let 452 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: them have their French retirement. That sounds like a Wes 453 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: Anderson movie. But the French retirement. Yeah, let somebody enjoy 454 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: this life, you know. That's the thing also Occurren said, 455 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: you know the proposal. I think at some point he 456 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: wants to be able to have carve outs for people 457 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: who can't work until they're sixty four something like that. 458 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: And again, it's just this idea that you have firms 459 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: like Blackrock, that have an obscene amount of capital and 460 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: that are exploiting it by the way, that are exploiting people, 461 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: and all of these myriad fashions around the world, not 462 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: just in America, not just in France, that you would 463 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: not be able to have a sixty two year old 464 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: retirement when you're in a country that prides itself on 465 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: having that net and working towards that net. It's very different, 466 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: I think than in the United States, where we have 467 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: a different culture, and the question of whether that's moral 468 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: or not is different, but the culture is a different place, 469 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: and that's part of what they're Part of why black 470 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: Rock is a lightning rod in France is because of that, 471 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: is because they see it as this exportation of American 472 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: values on individualism, and it's definitely different. And good for them, 473 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you are French for a reason. Not good 474 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: for them storming the headquarters, good for them, Good for 475 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: them doing that, I met. I'm good for them for 476 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: saying we're French for a reason, because I think that's 477 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: a really healthy way to have consensus on what your 478 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: country stands for and what your laws should reflect. And 479 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: if you don't have that's one of the biggest problems 480 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: we have in America right now, as we don't have 481 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: consensus on the values our laws should reflect, and that's 482 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: a huge problem for any country. So over in Tennessee, meanwhile, 483 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: just a wild night last night in the legislature. We 484 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: could put up C one here, so for people who 485 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: haven't been following along here. Basically, three Democrats in the 486 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: Tennessee House participated in a protest inside the capital for 487 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: gun legislation. The Democratic lawmakers kind of chanted along with 488 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: the protesters who had come in. Some of them were leading. 489 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: They have megaphones and we're leading the clients and so right, 490 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: and the charge that they're getting hit with is speaking 491 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: from the floor without recognition basically. And so the Republicans 492 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: said that they're going to go ahead and expel these 493 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: three Democrats. They held the votes, they expelled two of them. 494 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: They did not have the votes to expel the third one. 495 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: I will let the viewers guess which ones of those 496 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: are black, which ones of those are white. She hung 497 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: on by one vote is I think they had sixty 498 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: six and she gets sixty five. Yeah, And so that 499 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: was Gloria Johnson who survived. I think we have a 500 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: clip of her. Here's Gloria, who's still representative Johnson right here? Actually, yes, 501 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: and we're going to fight hard to get him back. 502 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 1: I will answer your question. I might have to do 503 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: with the color of our skin. And so let's roll 504 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: one more clip too. Here. This is from Phil Lewis, 505 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: my old colleague at huff posts on from his Twitter feed, 506 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: Role C three here after that vote was held, but 507 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: before the Johnson and Pearson votes. So what's your reaction 508 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: to this? Yeah, it's interesting because I think on the 509 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: right there's a lot of conversation now about whether to 510 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: fight fire with fire, and then you get into this 511 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: hole like who started it checking her egg, conversation about 512 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: who actually ratched it up, who broke the norm first? 513 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: And I don't know that there's really any satisfying answer 514 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: to that question in different cases. But the right has 515 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: I think, been cheering this expulsion, saying you would do 516 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: it to us. We all know how the media would 517 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: react if a bunch of conservatives, you know, in opposition 518 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: to abortion did that. We all know how the media 519 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: would depict it. So get them the heck out of here. 520 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: And I mean, sixty five people voted to expel Gloria 521 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: Johnson too. I mean, that's not a small number. That's 522 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: a lot of votes for expulsion of three people, and 523 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: they actually all had different final tallies of how many 524 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: people voted to expel them. The argument is that the 525 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: two gentlemen were using megaphones, they're part of the people. 526 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: I've seen that argument circulated by Tennessee Republicans, that they 527 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: were the people that were actually leading chance with megaphones 528 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: and extra disruptive. That said, I never liked the idea 529 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: of finding fire with fire. It's never don't. I don't 530 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: love it constitutionally, and you know I don't love it 531 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: legally in the system. I'm not a huge fan of it. Yeah, 532 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: and my objection is that it's not the same fire. 533 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: So I've seen a lot of people saying like these 534 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: are insurrectionists and therefore you know they need to be 535 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: expelled clearly making January sixth references. But no members of 536 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: Congress were expelled as a result of January sixth. No 537 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: members of Congress faced even a center vote. Although members 538 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: of Congress weren't leading January six I mean, like the 539 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: picture of Josh Hawley even is completely misleading. It was 540 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: they weren't they weren't like out there with megaphones, And 541 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: there's a complete argument that it was ginned up by 542 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: reckless statements by members of Congress. I'm not disputing that, 543 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: but I think it's different. Granted, I agree with you 544 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: it's not apples to apples, but it is different when 545 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: you're leading what is a disruptive protest. I don't think 546 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: what happened in the Tennessee State House was an insurrection, 547 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: right because so, and to back up a little bit, 548 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: I remember when January sixth happened, thinking that this was 549 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: going to change the way that protest was going to 550 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: be either done or responded to around the US Capitol 551 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: and other state capitals. Because you know, you and I 552 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: covered the response to the Kavanaugh hearings. You had the 553 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: Heart Building, which is one of the Senate office buildings 554 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: right down the street from here, just completely filled with 555 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: protesters every single day. And those protesters would go into 556 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: the hallways and they would kind of buttonhole members of 557 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: Congress and sometimes yell at them it's civil disobedience. Yes, 558 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: And there was that viral moment with Jeff Flake where 559 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: he's like they're basically blocking his elevator from leaving and 560 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: pouring their hearts out about these sexual assaults that they 561 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: had gone through the two women, and you can see 562 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: Flake listening to them. It was this really this moment 563 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: where civil disobedience had kind of transformed itself into civil society, 564 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: into an actual conversation. And then Flake goes to the 565 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: hearing and says, I'm not actually ready to vote for Kavanaugh. 566 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: I want a one week delay so that the FBI 567 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: can investigate this. This really really historic moment of people 568 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: pressuring the Senate. And I remember thinking, I don't think 569 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: there's any sincerity behind that decision, but yes, no, but 570 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: like he felt pressure, definitely does. And so after January sixth, 571 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: I was I started thinking, like that type of thing 572 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: is going to be treated much differently because nobody, none 573 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: of the Capitol police I spoke to, none of the senators, 574 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: thought that any of the people that were protesting Kavanaugh 575 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: were going to hurt anybody, or we're going to kind 576 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: of disobey the Capitol police like they would often get arrested, 577 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: but it would be that be that kind of ceremonial 578 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: arrest where it's like, all right, everybody line up and 579 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: do your civil disobedience arrest now, and they would all 580 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: put their hands behind their back or they would get 581 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: carried out. But you didn't have people swinging giant American flags. 582 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: You didn't have people who had bare spray. You didn't 583 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: have people you know, poke, you know, poking with ba 584 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, you know, the bats were not flying, and 585 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: and you know, the January sixth protesters were not like 586 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: there to commit civil disobedience to make a point. Oh 587 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: yeah it was a riot. Yes, yeah it was a riot. 588 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: But I assume that I think Tennessee shows that they're 589 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: going to respond to even civil disobedience protests as if 590 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: they're insurrections. Well that's a really interesting point because one 591 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: of the arguments here is that they had censure available, 592 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: they could have shared all of these lawmakers, and they 593 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: broke the rules, broke the korum, shouldn't have done this. 594 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: You have a center vote like that, they're exactly and 595 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: you even kick them off committees, like there are things 596 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: you can do short of telling this these voters that 597 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: your person can no longer represent you, you know. And 598 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: the thing that with civil disobedience is that it is 599 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: always this idea that you're going to get punished, you 600 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: expect to get punished when the laws are broken, because 601 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: we do have the rule of law, and when people 602 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: break laws even in pursuit of a righteous cause. It's 603 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: not as though people are in every case of civil disipate. 604 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: There's some cases where people don't deserve to be arrested, 605 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: so they're not actually breaking laws. But in cases where 606 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: you do actually break laws, even in pursuit of a 607 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: noble cause, you expect the rule of law to be 608 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: applied to. That's why you you a letter from the 609 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: Birmingham jail and not letter from the hotel room I 610 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: went to after the protest was over, and that's what 611 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: you use, that particular mechanism of protest, and that's one thing. 612 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: So the pundament. Then there's this question of whether the 613 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 1: punishment fits the crime. The expulsion pundament punishment fits the 614 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: breach of deporum when there's a censure option available. I 615 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: just think right now we're at a time when we're 616 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 1: all like people. I mean, I'm on the right, people 617 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: are right now absolutely furious by the way that they 618 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: are treated. There was a really interesting exchange between one 619 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: of the guys that got expelled and one of the 620 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: Republican members of the House who said you called me 621 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: a brown face to one of the guys that ended 622 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: up getting expelled, and he said, well, I said you 623 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: put a brown face, a brown mask or something on 624 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: white supremacy. This is really nasty. I mean, that's a 625 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: level of that is an accusation that I think you 626 00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: can understand why it is pushing so deep and pushing 627 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: on people so deeply. And that is a really vitriolic 628 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: and nasty thing to say. And I'm not saying it 629 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: doesn't come from both sides. I am those saying that 630 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: the I think sympathy for people who are also behaving 631 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: in really I think abhorrent ways in certain cases that 632 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: I don't like. And that's the double standard is exactly 633 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: what has pushed Republicans to the point where they're like, script, 634 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: we're expelling them. And the tit for that, tit for 635 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: tat then raises the question of well, what else should 636 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: people be expelled for? And you've got Representative Jones here 637 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: making this speech, which stick around for the end of 638 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: this one. You're going to be shocked where it goes 639 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: for years. One of your colleagues, who with an admitted 640 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: child molestor sat in this chamber No expulsion. One member 641 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: sits in this chamber was bound guilty of domestic violence, 642 00:35:52,560 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: no expulsion. We had a former speaker sit in this 643 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: chamber who is now under federal investigation, no expulsion. We 644 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: have a member still under federal investigation, no expulsion. We 645 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: had a member pee in another member's chair in this chamber, 646 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: no expulsion. In fact, they're in leadership. Yeah, so if 647 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: you've got to talk about decorum and the rules of 648 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 1: the House floor, maybe they never bothered to write down 649 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: you cannot pee in another member's chair. It's not enumerated, 650 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: but I think that it is understood. It's common a 651 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: common rule you shouldn't do. But you shouldn't do that. 652 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: And this was Republican on Republican violence, it turned out 653 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 1: I researched this incident. You shouldn't be expelled for doing that. 654 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: I mean kind of yes, But his point is they weren't, 655 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: and you you have because Republicans control the House right now, 656 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: or control the legislature right now, right And then he 657 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: also mentions domestic violence, the pedophilia, et cetera, and those 658 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: You know, you could go to the House of Representatives. 659 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: You've got a guy who's just completely made up everything 660 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: about himself not expelled. So that raises a question who 661 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: gets expelled, why and when? And I still think though 662 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: that the question, Yeah, I don't I don't obviously disagree 663 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: with any of that. If you pee in someone's chair, 664 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: you should be expelled. That's so obvious. And that rule 665 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: applies to both of us, Ryan, and to you Sager. 666 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 1: Warning you first, you first, you get a warn, you 667 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: get three strikes. I was gonna just finish the I say. 668 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: The double standard thing is a real problem, not just 669 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: for the right but also for the left, because it's 670 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: what creates more. And this is a serious point, it's 671 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: what creates more January six is people feel like they're 672 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: just getting trampled on over and over again. They're going 673 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: to start justifying their protes of bad behavior. They're going 674 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: to start justifying bad behavior as a protest of bad behavior. 675 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: And you can go all the way down, and you 676 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,919 Speaker 1: can always pull back more layers and do the chicken 677 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: and egg thing. This person started it, Well, it goes 678 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: back to New Gingrich. No, it goes back to Barry Goldwater. No, 679 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: it goes back to FDR. Like you can keep saying, 680 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: who broke the first norm? It goes back to Abraham Lincoln. 681 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: You know, they might keep going, but at the end 682 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: of the day, you're just going to get more bad 683 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: behavior the more that we're incapable of controlling ourselves. So 684 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: I think that applies in both cases here, and this 685 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: is an over now. In order to fill these seats, 686 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: the people who are responsible for filling them have reportedly 687 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: are going to send back Representatives Pearson and Jones as 688 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: the yes special election. Well, I think the first there'll 689 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: be appointments. We'll see exactly what the details are. But 690 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: certain like you haven't heard the last of these guys, 691 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: Like you can kick them out, but the voters and 692 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: the local officials can send them back. And Republicans just 693 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: elevated their profile to the next level. I mean, these 694 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: are now national political figures because of all of those right, 695 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: and they elevated him to hero status. People will remember 696 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 1: that legendary and horrifying story where Preston Brooks, the South 697 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: Carolina congressman, almost beat Charles Sumner abolitionist, to death, broke 698 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: his cane. A bunch of people mailed him canes. He 699 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: gets they were about to boot him out of Congress. 700 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: He quit. They held a special election. He ran for 701 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: that special election, and he won. Voters sent him back 702 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: to Congress. There you go. It doesn't end. No, speaking 703 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: of people lashing out at the establishment with increasingly questionable 704 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: means that are nevertheless somewhat understandable. Robert F. Kennedy Junior 705 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: has announced that he is a candidate. He actually filed 706 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 1: papers to run for the Democratic nomination for presidency in 707 00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. He joins Maryan Williamson and President Joe 708 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: Biden in that race. So three declared candidates now, two 709 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: of whom are RFK Junior and Marianne Williamson. Now, RFK 710 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: Junior has really always been a figure of the kind 711 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,399 Speaker 1: of fringe left, I would say, And by the way, 712 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: if what happened to my if what happened to him 713 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: happened to my family, I'd probably be on the fringes 714 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,240 Speaker 1: of politics. You would have zero, zero trust of anybody 715 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 1: or anything. That said, he's really always been a figure 716 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: of the left. He's made a lot of relationships with 717 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: more people on the right, and I guess the right 718 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: and maybe sort of the establishment center to the extent 719 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: that exists over vaccines, over COVID, over all of that. 720 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: But he's sort of new to those circles. I imagine 721 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: you followed him for a while because he is he 722 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: has been a figure of the left. What do you 723 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: make of this? And he kind of represents the evolution 724 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,240 Speaker 1: of the left to the right or a giant segment 725 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: of the left that has gone the hippie to Q pipeline. Yeah, 726 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: the hippie to Q pipeline. Absolutely, he is kind of 727 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,919 Speaker 1: the personification of the hippie to Q pipeline. Uh. Yeah, 728 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,919 Speaker 1: Like you said, he in the in the two thousands 729 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 1: he became kind of a leading kind of anti vaxxer 730 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 1: but also environmentalist. Oh you know that. That's the thing 731 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: with with rfk Jr. You were always going to get 732 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:32,359 Speaker 1: a ton of a ton of great positions and then 733 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: a ton of ones where you're just like, whoa, Yeah, 734 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: that's what. He's not cute? Where'd he come up? Where 735 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: did he come up with that one? No, he's not 736 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 1: c Although although his brother is not his brother, his 737 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: cousin jfk Jr. Is right, isn't Isn't he the guy 738 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: at the center, like he's going to come back to 739 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,240 Speaker 1: life or something. They believe. There are still Q theories 740 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: that he is still alive. Yeah, well then Q is 741 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: going to be there. I'm sure they're going to be 742 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: all over the fact that he's running for president, that 743 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: his cousin's running for president. I don't know, maybe they're like, oh, wait, 744 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: maybe we were wrong. It wasn't JFK Jr. Was R 745 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: that's going to come back and save the country. But yeah, 746 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 1: like there was that there was that left wing anti 747 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: vaccine movement back in the two thousands. Yeah, that, uh, 748 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: and you know he like you said, his father assassinated. 749 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: You know, he doesn't believe sarahin and did it. And 750 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: there's plenty of people, you know who who agree with 751 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 1: him and think that this was that there was a 752 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: conspiracy around that. Obviously there was some type of conspiracy 753 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: around his uncle getting killed. And so to watch that, 754 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: to live to live with that, and also all of 755 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 1: the trauma that that a Kennedy goes through, Like there's 756 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: so many his cousin died in the plan, so many 757 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: Kennedy's you know, dying before his own wife. The time, brutal, 758 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: But he kind of gone around the bend at this 759 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: point to the point where when he's right, you're like, 760 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: that's awesome. He's right, but then you're like, is he 761 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: right because he got lucky this time because the other 762 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 1: Because in order to embrace him when he's right, you 763 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: have to really work hard to ignore a lot of 764 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: the things where he's so obviously wrong that stuff. I 765 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,359 Speaker 1: wonder if this actually really gets establishment democrats nervous now 766 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: that you have both Mary Williamson and RFK Junior, people 767 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: who are charismatic and interesting who staked out populist positions. 768 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,719 Speaker 1: I think in really it's sometimes very interesting ways. That's 769 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: to your point about RFK Junior, sometimes just so horribly 770 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: off base, other times really on target, and like with 771 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: research that you aren't going to read anywhere else, and 772 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: eventually some people will cover it, but you really have 773 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: a hard time finding a lot of that information. And 774 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: that's not to say it's always right, but sometimes it's 775 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,879 Speaker 1: definitely worth taking a look at. And I wonder then 776 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 1: if Joe Biden, when instead of Careine Jean Pierre, you know, 777 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: laughing off Mary and Williamson with her condescending crystal ball thing, 778 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: I wonder if they start to say, hey, these people 779 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: are going to be traveling around South Carolina and New Hampshire, 780 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,359 Speaker 1: does that make our life easier, or does that make 781 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: the president really have to start answering some some tougher 782 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: questions than he'd like. I don't know the answer to that. 783 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: I think it is still early, because he just filed 784 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: papers yesterday. I was really surprised that he filed papers. 785 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 1: I don't know where he's I was actually a surprised 786 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 1: he filed as a Democrat. Were you like when I mean, 787 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: even though the Counties are obviously the most democratic family 788 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: in the country. When I heard he was running, I 789 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: was like, which party it would have made? It would 790 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: have made a lot more sense to me if he 791 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: was going if he did the Tulsi where he came over. 792 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: And he's like, I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The 793 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: Democratic Party left me kind of thing. He might be 794 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 1: less of a Democrat than Tulsi at this point he 795 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: probably is, Yet he's running the Democratic prime And and 796 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: I actually think that that hurts Maryanne Williamson because she 797 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: she's going to get lumped in with him. That's true, 798 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: as these like two loopy people. What he's kind of 799 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 1: a loopy dude. She's not right, Like she gets mocked 800 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: like that by the White House and buy a lot 801 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: of them a lot of the corporate media, But if 802 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: you actually listen to what she's saying, it's the kind 803 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,160 Speaker 1: of thing that appeals to like eighty percent of the 804 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,320 Speaker 1: country and it is not actually the kind of orbs 805 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,800 Speaker 1: and crystal stuff that is her caricature. But having RFK 806 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: in the race is going to further allow the media 807 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: to paint like the opponents of Biden as these as 808 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: these circus people, anti vac crazy people, right, but mean, 809 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 1: which she isn't though, but right, although I think she 810 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,480 Speaker 1: was skeptical in the two thousands, right, like I we'll 811 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 1: look that up, but that will be the Biden line 812 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: no matter what that'll be that you're absolutely right, they'll 813 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 1: just try to But again, like I don't know if 814 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: that's entirely helpful for them to just because RFK Jr. 815 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: Is going to get media, Mary Anne is getting media, Like, 816 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,799 Speaker 1: it's not going to be entirely helpful for them to 817 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 1: just brush it all aside. And the other question is 818 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: is it is it good for for Mary and Williamson 819 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,399 Speaker 1: and for RFK Junior that they're both in the race, 820 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,879 Speaker 1: because does that force Biden to debate now that there's 821 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: two of them and one of them, by the way, 822 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: is a Kennedy. I don't know it, Like, if they 823 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: can get to the debate stage, they're not. I mean there, 824 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: Joe Biden is going to be the nominee unless he 825 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: drops out. But if they get he'll skip the debates 826 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: unless he's under a lot of pressure. And exactly Williamson 827 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,839 Speaker 1: is if you if you look at poles among when 828 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 1: I was talking to Crystal about this the other day, 829 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,319 Speaker 1: if you look at poles among young people, she's doing 830 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: extraordinarily well. And is it insanely popular on TikTok? Actually, yeah, 831 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: she really is. Yeah, Like if the election were held 832 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 1: on TikTok, should beat Biden two to one. That's why 833 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: I think it, Like, yeah, if I were Biden, I 834 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to be on a debate stage if I 835 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,280 Speaker 1: don't have to run the sitting president, and I wouldn't 836 00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: want to put up with us. From a tactical perspective, 837 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,360 Speaker 1: it's not it's always going to be more helpful to 838 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:07,360 Speaker 1: not confront criticism publicly. Just from a strictly strategic perspective. 839 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 1: That said, at a certain point, if people start really 840 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,800 Speaker 1: catching traction, because nobody is into Joe Biden and that's true. 841 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 1: It's not like people are like, oh, I can't wait 842 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: for Joe Biden's second term. Like Democratic voters are just 843 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: super stoked about Joe Biden's second term. Then there's energy 844 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 1: out there that can be captured by people who are 845 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: putting in the time and going to different states, talking 846 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 1: to different voters and talking about issues that Joe Biden 847 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,720 Speaker 1: doesn't want to talk about. Yeah, and so I just googled, 848 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: and you know, so she was not at all a 849 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 1: kind of anti vax campaign or back in the two thousands, 850 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,200 Speaker 1: but CNN had found in twenty twelve she had said 851 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,000 Speaker 1: she could see both sides of the issue and agonized 852 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 1: as a mother over the decision to vaccinate her children. 853 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: Her guests said she knew a lot of people who 854 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: had vaccinated and then gotten all, which she said, yes, absolutely, 855 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: that was a big debate back in the two thousands 856 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: among and you read so much about it, You heard 857 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 1: so much about it that there were a lot of 858 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,440 Speaker 1: parents who were like, who were genuinely concerned, like is 859 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: this something I should worry about? So much so that 860 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:22,920 Speaker 1: the Pediatric Association actually created this kind of timetable instead 861 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: of giving people, you know, giving kids back all the 862 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: vaccines like at these certain times they would stretch them out, 863 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: And the Pediatric Association was basically, we don't have any 864 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: evidence that this is necessary, but there's so much skepticism 865 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: among parents that we're doing this to make them feel 866 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: better about it. See that is a great place to 867 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,880 Speaker 1: camp out on in this point, because nobody would do 868 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 1: that today. It is today they would just be dug in. 869 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 1: If you're you're crazy, right nuts, get all your jabs 870 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,880 Speaker 1: right now. And there's less trust and media now, and 871 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,880 Speaker 1: there's less trust in institutions now. And so I like, 872 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,759 Speaker 1: both of us are vaccinated, and I've always said I 873 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,240 Speaker 1: hope my family gets vaccinated too, But people may disagree 874 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,200 Speaker 1: with that. The point is if you live in a 875 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: low trust environment and you just lump everybody in and 876 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,160 Speaker 1: say I'm not dealing with you because you're a conspiracy theorist, 877 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,839 Speaker 1: you're a crazy person. When they have good faith questions 878 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,759 Speaker 1: that they just want answers to, and instead of meeting 879 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,359 Speaker 1: them where they are and saying we're going to work 880 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: this out, how can we make you feel more comfortable, 881 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: it's just you're an idiot. You should be ostracized from 882 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 1: society and that has really pushed us to dangerous places, 883 00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: and I think now we're more likely to see that 884 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:41,439 Speaker 1: dynamic play out in the Democratic primer. Well, let's check 885 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,960 Speaker 1: in on speaker Kevin McCarthy. That's right on his way in. 886 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 1: He was saying he was going to do just like 887 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi did. He's going to parachute into Taiwan if 888 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 1: he had to, and he's going to meet with the 889 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: Taiwanese leader. China freaked out and said, you better not. 890 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:00,719 Speaker 1: So what do we what do you do? So? What 891 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,959 Speaker 1: do we have instead? Yeah, So he ended up doing 892 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,360 Speaker 1: a meeting one at the Reagan Library with the Taiwanese 893 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,120 Speaker 1: president instead of actually going to Taiwan. Now there's an 894 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,839 Speaker 1: argument that that's actually a really smart move because the 895 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,240 Speaker 1: threat of escalation has mounted since Pelosi took her visit 896 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,279 Speaker 1: to Taiwan, which was already quite risky. You know, I'm, 897 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:25,839 Speaker 1: of course somebody who thinks we need to be much 898 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: tougher in China that the threat to Taiwan is greater 899 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,800 Speaker 1: and more immediate than most of the media is telling 900 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,840 Speaker 1: us or is willing to admit, even though the media 901 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,840 Speaker 1: is generally in favor of military intervention in this case, 902 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,640 Speaker 1: the China connections I think are a complicating factor. But 903 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi then comes out and says she supports Kevin 904 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,840 Speaker 1: McCarthy's meeting at the Reagan Library with the Taiwanese president, 905 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 1: who's made some different stops in the United States on 906 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,400 Speaker 1: this trip. I think it was at the Hudson Institute 907 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,960 Speaker 1: here in the district and then went out to the 908 00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,080 Speaker 1: Reagan Library and had this meeting with Kevin McCarthy. It 909 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,640 Speaker 1: pretty much proceeded as you would expect it to, but 910 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,160 Speaker 1: there's an interesting note by partisanship when you have Nancy 911 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:09,719 Speaker 1: Pelosi actually offering active support to Kevin McCarthy. And we 912 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: saw a similar measure by partisanship when it came to 913 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:18,719 Speaker 1: the TikTok hearings against China. By partisanship against China, we're 914 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:25,720 Speaker 1: starting to see this coalescing of bipartisan anger directed at China, 915 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,320 Speaker 1: and that could be channeled in some really bad ways. 916 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,960 Speaker 1: That could be channeled in some potentially important ways, but 917 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,400 Speaker 1: it could definitely be channeled in bad ways. We've already 918 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: seen an example of this with the restrict Act that 919 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,439 Speaker 1: we covered here last week, a bill with support from 920 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,759 Speaker 1: Mark Warner and ten other Democrats along with eleven Republicans, 921 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: including John Thune. That is just an incredible Patriot Act 922 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:53,799 Speaker 1: style power grab in the interest of curtailing TikTok's influence, 923 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,759 Speaker 1: but doesn't actually mention TikTok once in the bill, and 924 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,439 Speaker 1: that was proposed and started gaining traction just the fact 925 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,800 Speaker 1: that there were a couple of clean TikTok band bills 926 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,839 Speaker 1: actually on the floor. And so we see where some 927 00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,279 Speaker 1: of that bipartisan stuff can start to snowball. As this 928 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,160 Speaker 1: starts to as people start to coalesce in their opposition 929 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:18,120 Speaker 1: to China for different reasons, you can start going in 930 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:23,439 Speaker 1: some really counterproductive directions. Now, this is one layer of 931 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,920 Speaker 1: a dynamic that's playing out on Capitol Hill right now 932 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,880 Speaker 1: that is really really interesting. This is one layer of 933 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,800 Speaker 1: sort of establishment by partisanship. Let's turn to the anti 934 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:37,160 Speaker 1: establishment bipartisanship that's coalescing right now as well. Politico has 935 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,919 Speaker 1: a super interesting article out this week. He too here. Yeah, 936 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,040 Speaker 1: this is a this is a good article about how 937 00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 1: the Freedom Caucus and Justice Dems are starting to talk 938 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,759 Speaker 1: more about the war power, curtailing war powers, get rid 939 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:56,160 Speaker 1: of getting rid of the AMF. But it doesn't stop there. 940 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,520 Speaker 1: I think that's what's really important about this political article. 941 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: It's really framed as the right left. It says it 942 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,480 Speaker 1: right there on the screen, the right left alliance on 943 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,080 Speaker 1: a rock war powers. And then they go on to say, 944 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,680 Speaker 1: but House liberals and conservatives are linking up on other 945 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,760 Speaker 1: issues too. That's an important point. It's not just war powers. 946 00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,880 Speaker 1: You're seeing this anti establishment by partisanship coalesce in opposition 947 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,720 Speaker 1: to things like the restrict Act, like these heavy handed 948 00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,680 Speaker 1: efforts to delegate tons of power over the Commerce and 949 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,560 Speaker 1: the Secretary of Commerce in an effort allegedly to ban TikTok, 950 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,799 Speaker 1: which is about so much more than banning TikTok. And 951 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,120 Speaker 1: also it gets super interesting, I believe you should. Talib 952 00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:40,400 Speaker 1: is working with some Republicans on surveillance and that is 953 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,840 Speaker 1: we've covered that here a couple of times. There's a 954 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,839 Speaker 1: reauthorization that will be coming up. It's later this year, 955 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,719 Speaker 1: right Ryan, It's like December September or something like that. 956 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:55,480 Speaker 1: Reauthorization of surveillance powers that absolutely demands from the perspective 957 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 1: of a conservative attention from republicans. It's a very easy 958 00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:03,480 Speaker 1: case from progressives. And so when you see that happening. 959 00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,280 Speaker 1: If you're Kevin McCarthy, you're going to be really nervous 960 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,799 Speaker 1: about that slim, slim majority that you have and the 961 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,120 Speaker 1: slim majority of support that you were able to get 962 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:20,400 Speaker 1: among your Republican colleagues, precisely because if they have the 963 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,200 Speaker 1: numbers to stick together with Justice Democrats and with progressives 964 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,880 Speaker 1: in the House, they can throw their weight around in 965 00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 1: a way that makes Kevin McCarthy, for instance, change his 966 00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,400 Speaker 1: position and give way in the establishment position on war powers, 967 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,160 Speaker 1: to give way in the establishment position on surveillance. There 968 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,920 Speaker 1: are some really big issues, and this is the democracy 969 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,120 Speaker 1: and action that so many people claim to champion. They 970 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:50,279 Speaker 1: love democracy, Well, this is it, this is actual. This 971 00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,840 Speaker 1: is the beauty of our design. Is that when you 972 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,759 Speaker 1: have divide a government like this, you are finding reasons 973 00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 1: to collaborate. And that's going to put a lot of 974 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,720 Speaker 1: pressure on Kevin McCarthy. And I don't think he's blind 975 00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,000 Speaker 1: to that. I think he understands completely that he now 976 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,800 Speaker 1: has a lot of pressure. I'm sure this Politico article 977 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,920 Speaker 1: circulated in McCarthy's office because it makes a really serious 978 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:18,280 Speaker 1: point that in the months ahead, he could find himself 979 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:23,279 Speaker 1: really negotiating playing hardball with people who don't have much 980 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,520 Speaker 1: incentive to get along with him after a certain point 981 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: and have more incentive, for instance, on an issue like 982 00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,680 Speaker 1: there are rock war powers that are still in the books, 983 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,799 Speaker 1: and an issue like surveillance that's extremely easy to take 984 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:41,400 Speaker 1: to Republican voters and talk a populist narrative to and 985 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,880 Speaker 1: rightfully so, because these are bad policies, they have a 986 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,040 Speaker 1: lot of insight, they've no incentive to just settle down 987 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,000 Speaker 1: and cooperate and collaborate. Now, Kevin McCarthy is very skilled 988 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,480 Speaker 1: at negotiating with people that he may sort of ideologically 989 00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,759 Speaker 1: be on the other side of in his own party. 990 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,200 Speaker 1: This makes life, I think, really difficult for him. Ran 991 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,680 Speaker 1: you may know more about what's happening or what could 992 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,359 Speaker 1: happen on the left in this issue, and I know 993 00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,080 Speaker 1: just we sort of swerved from the point on Taiwan. 994 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,120 Speaker 1: But I think it's an interesting sort of combination here 995 00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:20,480 Speaker 1: we have the establishment bipartisanship and the anti establishment bi 996 00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,040 Speaker 1: partisanship crossing each other kind of at the same time. 997 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,279 Speaker 1: I was really surprised in the political article that some 998 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,240 Speaker 1: justice stems were saying, hey, we can agree on things, 999 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,879 Speaker 1: because for a while, both on the left and the right, 1000 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,600 Speaker 1: it was toxic to even acknowledge that you might have 1001 00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,359 Speaker 1: things to work together on. And it represents a thaw 1002 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,759 Speaker 1: that's set in on January sixth, that they were the 1003 00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:45,640 Speaker 1: kind left, the activists who had been trying to create 1004 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,000 Speaker 1: some of these coalitions over the last several years, and 1005 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,399 Speaker 1: had successfully created them on, like you said, some civil 1006 00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:56,160 Speaker 1: liberties issues, some surveillance stuff, some more powers issues, were 1007 00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,520 Speaker 1: deeply nervous that in the wake of January sixth, most 1008 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,200 Speaker 1: of their interlocertors that they've been effectively able to work 1009 00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,000 Speaker 1: with on say war powers or civil liberties also were 1010 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,080 Speaker 1: the ones who are the most vocal or among the 1011 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:13,239 Speaker 1: most vocal that stopped the steal and voting or at 1012 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 1: least not certifying right vote and voting not to certify 1013 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,440 Speaker 1: the election, and which, by the way, is something that 1014 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,040 Speaker 1: sort of fringe people have. It's always it's kind of 1015 00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:23,960 Speaker 1: like a tradition in the last twenty years, like you 1016 00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,360 Speaker 1: have Jamie Raskin doing it in twenty sixteen, and so 1017 00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,520 Speaker 1: I think Republicans didn't realize how serious what they were doing, 1018 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,480 Speaker 1: that's true, But the vote was held after the riot. 1019 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,520 Speaker 1: At that point they can be like, Okay, we're stepping 1020 00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,320 Speaker 1: over blood and glass to get to the chamber. We 1021 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,280 Speaker 1: could not cast this vote. But politics were what they were, 1022 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,840 Speaker 1: and they did what they did, and that made it 1023 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,160 Speaker 1: so that it was very difficult to get any Democrats 1024 00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,920 Speaker 1: to say, Okay, yes, I'll co sponsor a bill with 1025 00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,840 Speaker 1: this guy. But the fact that they're able to do 1026 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,480 Speaker 1: it now, I think represents the distance that we've come 1027 00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,520 Speaker 1: since January sixth, and that people are now able to say, 1028 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,960 Speaker 1: you know what, I disagreed with that strongly, as strongly 1029 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,080 Speaker 1: as you could possibly disagree with anything, but we agree 1030 00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,160 Speaker 1: on this particular issue and sore that's more important and 1031 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,080 Speaker 1: we're going to push ahead on it. And Roy put 1032 00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: it well in this political article. He says, this is 1033 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,720 Speaker 1: Chip Roy from a Texas Freedom Caucus member. He says, 1034 00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,160 Speaker 1: sometimes the political spectrum is more of a circle than 1035 00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,280 Speaker 1: a line. At some point, you might have sometimes differing 1036 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,120 Speaker 1: motives or different ranges, but you end up at the 1037 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,040 Speaker 1: same conclusion and that's okay. That's kind of how our 1038 00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,160 Speaker 1: system works. And if you can get back to that, 1039 00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,240 Speaker 1: then yes, that can create headaches for McCarthy, especially when 1040 00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,320 Speaker 1: he has just a couple vote margin, these headaches would 1041 00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,200 Speaker 1: be good for the American people. So that's the positive news. 1042 00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:48,200 Speaker 1: This is a good headaches. All right, Ryan, you're gonna 1043 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,120 Speaker 1: be talking about China and Saudi Arabia. What have you got? Yes, 1044 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,880 Speaker 1: and we've got we actually have some breaking news out 1045 00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:59,680 Speaker 1: of out of this entire so yes. So yesterday China 1046 00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:04,000 Speaker 1: and nowounced that they had reached a further deal with 1047 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:08,400 Speaker 1: Saudi and Iran embassies are opening up. Uh. There there 1048 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,000 Speaker 1: was a press conference with the kind of Saudi foreign 1049 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,920 Speaker 1: minister and the Iranian foreign minister in China where they 1050 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,840 Speaker 1: invited each other. They're opening up direct flights now between 1051 00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,800 Speaker 1: ryod And and Tehran. It's a real step forward. And 1052 00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,360 Speaker 1: at the same time that they were making these announcement, 1053 00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:29,480 Speaker 1: you started hearing word that there that there was going 1054 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,560 Speaker 1: to be a ceasefire extended in the in the Yemen War. 1055 00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,840 Speaker 1: And this is all tied in because the Houthis are 1056 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,800 Speaker 1: talked about in the US media as basically a cat's 1057 00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:44,000 Speaker 1: paw for Iran, but they're not. They're they're an independent actor, 1058 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: but they're only independent in the sense that they could 1059 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,720 Speaker 1: continue to get you weapons and supplies mostly from Iran. 1060 00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:54,240 Speaker 1: And so if Iran were to cut that off, that 1061 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,640 Speaker 1: has an influence over the Houthis. So Iran can influence 1062 00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:02,160 Speaker 1: the Hoothis even though they can't basically order them around. 1063 01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,960 Speaker 1: At the same time, the Saudi's Uh and the and 1064 01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,840 Speaker 1: the Amoradies are basically running the war on on the 1065 01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,080 Speaker 1: other side of that. Now there has been there a 1066 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:17,200 Speaker 1: cease fire kind of collapsed or expired in October of 1067 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,240 Speaker 1: last year, but hostilities hadn't hadn't picked up again. The 1068 01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,600 Speaker 1: reporting that we were getting yesterday and now now breaking 1069 01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,160 Speaker 1: news is that the war may actually be coming to 1070 01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:32,080 Speaker 1: an end, which would uh be, would just be a 1071 01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: huge kind of gift to humanity. Uh next would be 1072 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,040 Speaker 1: the rebuilding of Yemen. But you know, the people of 1073 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:43,400 Speaker 1: Yemen have faced just unspeakable horrors over the over the 1074 01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:48,200 Speaker 1: last seven years or so since Saudi Uh Saudi Rabi 1075 01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,440 Speaker 1: launched launched this war after the Houthis took over Sana. 1076 01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:57,160 Speaker 1: But so this is this is from the u Or 1077 01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,200 Speaker 1: news organization Al al Maya Dean, which is basically a 1078 01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:06,240 Speaker 1: kind of Lebanese pro Hothy organization. Yesterday, the Wall Street Journal, 1079 01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,560 Speaker 1: and we can put this Wall Street Journal clip up here. 1080 01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:13,000 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal was reporting that there was that Saudi 1081 01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,120 Speaker 1: officials were saying that they were going to extend the 1082 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,240 Speaker 1: cease fire to the end of twenty twenty three. Hoo. 1083 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,960 Speaker 1: The officials in this article were denying that that was 1084 01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:25,640 Speaker 1: the case, but you could see that things were moving 1085 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,800 Speaker 1: in the right direction. So to have a pro hoy 1086 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 1: organization putting this news up now is extraordinarily hopeful. And 1087 01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,320 Speaker 1: so at the same time that you're you're having the 1088 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,600 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal report that you're there there, the blockade 1089 01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:43,920 Speaker 1: is going to be lifted, You're going to be able 1090 01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:50,080 Speaker 1: to get they simply said, batteries, fertilizer, like the basics 1091 01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:55,240 Speaker 1: of life, like light, life in Sanaw, life across the 1092 01:01:55,320 --> 01:02:02,200 Speaker 1: controlled Yemut has just been mad style because of the 1093 01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:07,200 Speaker 1: inability to import basic goods, just just a horrifying existence. 1094 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,880 Speaker 1: And so like to see this lifted and then to 1095 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,320 Speaker 1: see kind of a pro Hoothy news outlet to say 1096 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:17,120 Speaker 1: that yes, there actually is almost an agreement UH to 1097 01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,400 Speaker 1: end the war UH represents a huge step forward. And 1098 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:26,160 Speaker 1: it is truly remarkable that the United States is only 1099 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,520 Speaker 1: involved in this in the sense that it's been supporting 1100 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,760 Speaker 1: Saudia's war effort like China comes out of this as 1101 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,919 Speaker 1: as the peacemaker, as as the one who is who 1102 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,640 Speaker 1: is responsible for finally finishing this off. And the United 1103 01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,760 Speaker 1: States couldn't because they were such a part as in 1104 01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,000 Speaker 1: belligerent in the war. They can't. How are they going 1105 01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,400 Speaker 1: to take a role in kind of in kind of 1106 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:55,560 Speaker 1: mediating this situation, And so great news if it holds, 1107 01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,760 Speaker 1: that's that's great news, but also a real kind of 1108 01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,480 Speaker 1: chink in the in the US imperial armor. If China 1109 01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,040 Speaker 1: is starting to be seen around the world as somebody 1110 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,200 Speaker 1: that can end conflicts and and end conflicts that are 1111 01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,520 Speaker 1: fueled by the United States, this is huge. Yeah, I 1112 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,919 Speaker 1: mean it is absolutely huge in that question of the 1113 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,080 Speaker 1: geopolitical positioning of the United States. Obviously the first and 1114 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,800 Speaker 1: foremost concerns for the people of Yemen, as you say, 1115 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:29,360 Speaker 1: have suffered immensely, But second to that the geopolitical positioning 1116 01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,160 Speaker 1: of the United States is China knows exactly what If 1117 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,440 Speaker 1: you listen to the way Hi Jinping talks about his 1118 01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:38,320 Speaker 1: ambitions for China's role in the world stage, this is 1119 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,120 Speaker 1: exactly it. This is exactly what they want to do 1120 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,680 Speaker 1: is replace the United States as the global leader, as 1121 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:52,240 Speaker 1: the one nation that everybody is looking to for leadership 1122 01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,920 Speaker 1: and guidance on the world stage because of our obviously 1123 01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,640 Speaker 1: our military and our money and our economy and all 1124 01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,640 Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, I mean, that's when you have them 1125 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,400 Speaker 1: stepping into the vacuum that we are now leaving in 1126 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,320 Speaker 1: the way that I mean Afghanistan was huge news in 1127 01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,600 Speaker 1: the White House briefing room yesterday. What happened in Afghanistan 1128 01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:15,280 Speaker 1: is because we no longer can do basic tasks of governing, 1129 01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,760 Speaker 1: whether it's in the military, whether it's in social services. 1130 01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,560 Speaker 1: We can't do it because we are hampered. And this 1131 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,120 Speaker 1: is an argument by the way that China makes We 1132 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:30,200 Speaker 1: are hampered by our divisions. Our divisions and our sort 1133 01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,600 Speaker 1: of corporate capture to your point about support for Saudi 1134 01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:37,320 Speaker 1: Arabia make it really difficult for us to come in. Now. 1135 01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,920 Speaker 1: It's much easier for China to come in because they 1136 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:44,880 Speaker 1: don't have some of these pre existing deals, relationships, et cetera, 1137 01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,520 Speaker 1: which is both a I think a blessing and a curse, 1138 01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:49,880 Speaker 1: but in some way makes it easier to just sort 1139 01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,960 Speaker 1: of step into that vacuum. That said, our differences are surmountable. 1140 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,800 Speaker 1: We don't have to be this divided. We can come 1141 01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,120 Speaker 1: out of it. Think our divisions are much better than 1142 01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,080 Speaker 1: unity brought about by censorship in the countries that are 1143 01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,240 Speaker 1: purporting to have the moral high ground here, and I'm 1144 01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,160 Speaker 1: talking of course about China. I'd rather have our division 1145 01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:19,720 Speaker 1: than their censorship and ostensible unity behind that censorship regime. 1146 01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:26,200 Speaker 1: But I think if they start becoming they've also tried 1147 01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,280 Speaker 1: to negotiate peace deals in Ukraine. The more that this 1148 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,440 Speaker 1: is successful, I mean, the more that this is successful, 1149 01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,920 Speaker 1: the more that the exact sort of plans of Shi 1150 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:39,680 Speaker 1: Jinping are starting to really be set in motion. And 1151 01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:44,840 Speaker 1: so and we're still digesting exactly what this news means 1152 01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,000 Speaker 1: and will mean for Yemen. But just to read from 1153 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,640 Speaker 1: a little bit of al ma Yudin and this is 1154 01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,880 Speaker 1: their this is their English versions. It's not perfect, but 1155 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:56,000 Speaker 1: the sources pointed The sources pointed out that the Saudi 1156 01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,880 Speaker 1: vision for the solution welcomes extending the Truth in Yemen 1157 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,880 Speaker 1: for another year in agreement with Sana, adding that the 1158 01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,280 Speaker 1: vision provides for extending the truce in exchange for handing 1159 01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,760 Speaker 1: over employee salaries, unifying the currency, and opening the port 1160 01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,440 Speaker 1: of alhu data completely. And those were the big sticking 1161 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,680 Speaker 1: points that the who these wanted like they want their 1162 01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:17,840 Speaker 1: government officials to be able to be paid. The teachers 1163 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:22,840 Speaker 1: have been going for years without without getting paid. The 1164 01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,440 Speaker 1: Saudi was saying, okay, fine, we'll do that, but we're 1165 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,200 Speaker 1: not paying kind of your military and your police because 1166 01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,920 Speaker 1: we're at war with you. But our military and our 1167 01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,400 Speaker 1: police are are part of our government and this is 1168 01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,160 Speaker 1: our money. And so this seems to be a complete 1169 01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,360 Speaker 1: capitulation from Saudi Arabia, saying because I've seen elsewhere reported 1170 01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:43,720 Speaker 1: that military and police salaries would be included in this. Also, 1171 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,440 Speaker 1: opening up this port completely is crucial. It's the it's 1172 01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:51,000 Speaker 1: the main port of entry into Yemen, and like with 1173 01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,800 Speaker 1: our baggage, we would not have been able to Oh no, 1174 01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:55,720 Speaker 1: no way, and it says the sources explained that an 1175 01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,400 Speaker 1: extension of the truce with these new conditions will be 1176 01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,640 Speaker 1: followed by an official Saudi announce of the end of 1177 01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,800 Speaker 1: the war and the cessation of its interference in Yemen, 1178 01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:08,880 Speaker 1: which means though that there will still be kind of 1179 01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:13,200 Speaker 1: some forces that Saudi Arabia had been supporting in Yemen 1180 01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:17,680 Speaker 1: that will likely continue to fight, what you know, where 1181 01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:19,680 Speaker 1: they're going to get the arms of the ammunition remains 1182 01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:23,240 Speaker 1: to be seen. How long that fight lasts also remains 1183 01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:25,160 Speaker 1: to be seen. There will have to be negotiations there 1184 01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,720 Speaker 1: to work that out. We'll see if the Amaradis want 1185 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,000 Speaker 1: to get involved in that. So it's not completely over. 1186 01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,960 Speaker 1: But if Saudi Arabia gets out, that's like that's it, 1187 01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,720 Speaker 1: Like there's there isn't there is no path for this 1188 01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:41,680 Speaker 1: kind of rump faction that that Saudi was supporting without 1189 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:45,720 Speaker 1: just Saudi Arabia constantly funneling money their way that there's 1190 01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:50,680 Speaker 1: like the official Yemeni government as recognized by Saudi Arabia. 1191 01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,320 Speaker 1: It's basically like in a hotel in Riad and so, 1192 01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,080 Speaker 1: and what Saudi Arabia is saying is like, yeah, you 1193 01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:57,880 Speaker 1: guys are no longer the government. We're done with this. 1194 01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:05,280 Speaker 1: I mean China, Iran, Russia. That is an alliance that 1195 01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,120 Speaker 1: I think is we're seeing in real time start to 1196 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:11,560 Speaker 1: tighten and grow. And peace is great. There's just no 1197 01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:16,280 Speaker 1: If you're upset about this peace, that's a think well, 1198 01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,759 Speaker 1: you know, have a supper conversation about that. But peace 1199 01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,880 Speaker 1: is should be the ultimate goal of is the goal 1200 01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:25,519 Speaker 1: of international relations is peace. But you know behind this 1201 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,280 Speaker 1: peace I think is a dark growing alliance that's not 1202 01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:33,120 Speaker 1: good for the world at large, right, which you know, 1203 01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,360 Speaker 1: if we didn't want the world turning against us, maybe 1204 01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,840 Speaker 1: we could have not been so you know, hostile and 1205 01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:40,920 Speaker 1: cynical towards the rest of the world. There's one one 1206 01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:42,720 Speaker 1: other line in this story I want to read because 1207 01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,720 Speaker 1: it's it shows just the fundamental lack of legitimacy of 1208 01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,599 Speaker 1: the quote unquote Many government that Saudi Arabia was supporting. 1209 01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:53,880 Speaker 1: They RTE. The sources stated that Saudi Arabia informed the 1210 01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,559 Speaker 1: Presidential Leadership Council. That's the fake kind of you Many 1211 01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,559 Speaker 1: government in Riod of its decision to end the war 1212 01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:04,400 Speaker 1: and and conclude the Many file permanently. So they walked 1213 01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:07,680 Speaker 1: over to the hotel. Yeah, the war's over and your 1214 01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:16,360 Speaker 1: files closed. Yeah. Check out to ten Ryan. We have 1215 01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:21,360 Speaker 1: a really good guest in this week, and you'll you'll 1216 01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,120 Speaker 1: be introducing the listeners to her and the viewers to 1217 01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,040 Speaker 1: her in just a little bit too. But maybe tell 1218 01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:28,840 Speaker 1: us a bit about what we're going to talk about. Yeah, 1219 01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:33,439 Speaker 1: this is exciting. Eliza Orleans will be joining us. She 1220 01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:37,200 Speaker 1: ran against Alvin Bragg as an aggressive man of the 1221 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,719 Speaker 1: Week and as man of the week in the election, 1222 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,639 Speaker 1: in which, you know, the big kind of campaign issue. 1223 01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,120 Speaker 1: One of the campaign issues was are you going to 1224 01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:48,320 Speaker 1: get Trump? How are you going to get Trump? Now? 1225 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,839 Speaker 1: Because it was for the people who actually live in Manhattan. 1226 01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,880 Speaker 1: A lot of it was about crime and criminal justice reform, 1227 01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:59,040 Speaker 1: and you know who who is better on criminal justice reform. 1228 01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,920 Speaker 1: But so you know, Eliza's a public defender. She's still 1229 01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,040 Speaker 1: a public defender. She's you know, known Brag for a 1230 01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,240 Speaker 1: long time. Obviously, you know, got to know him pretty 1231 01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,280 Speaker 1: well during the campaigns. We're gonna ask her for her 1232 01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,080 Speaker 1: take on the charges. It's for her take on Brag 1233 01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:21,760 Speaker 1: and the As a side note, her previous career was 1234 01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:26,040 Speaker 1: as a reality TV star. People who were like my 1235 01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,639 Speaker 1: age would remember her from the early two thousands because 1236 01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:30,679 Speaker 1: she was like on the cover of all the magazines 1237 01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:32,880 Speaker 1: because she was like winning Survivor or like the Top 1238 01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,559 Speaker 1: and Survivor, and then she got brought back for like 1239 01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,160 Speaker 1: the Survivor Reunion or whatever. So if you're in if 1240 01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:41,519 Speaker 1: you were in that two thousands kind of reality world, 1241 01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,559 Speaker 1: you'll be like, do I recognize her? Like, yes, you do, 1242 01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:50,000 Speaker 1: you do recognize her. But so after her reality TV 1243 01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:53,360 Speaker 1: star turn, she went to become a public defender would 1244 01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:56,000 Speaker 1: have been quite wild if you had a former if 1245 01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:58,360 Speaker 1: she'd have won and you had a former reality TV 1246 01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:02,839 Speaker 1: star prosecuting a former reality TV star I was president, 1247 01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,920 Speaker 1: that would have been something. So stick around for Eliza next, Eliza, 1248 01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:10,080 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. You're joining us from Italy? Is 1249 01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:14,760 Speaker 1: that right? Get taking a rare vacation? It is? What 1250 01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:19,120 Speaker 1: are week to be away? Huh? For sure? So what's 1251 01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:22,320 Speaker 1: it been like for you to follow to follow this case? 1252 01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:28,599 Speaker 1: As there's the anticipation. Let's start with the anticipation. What 1253 01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:33,880 Speaker 1: was your guess that the prosecutor Bragg was going to 1254 01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:37,080 Speaker 1: bring forward? And did what he actually brought forward kind 1255 01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:42,120 Speaker 1: of match with what you expected? Well, I mean, if 1256 01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:46,880 Speaker 1: you think back to when he took office and palmerance 1257 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:52,120 Speaker 1: and done very loudly quit that office because Alvin wasn't 1258 01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:55,320 Speaker 1: pursuing the Trump prosecution, I think if we're rewinding that 1259 01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,200 Speaker 1: far back, our anticipation a lot of us and myself included, 1260 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,439 Speaker 1: was that Trump might not be prosecuting Donald Trump at all. 1261 01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,360 Speaker 1: So that was that was interesting. And then when it 1262 01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:07,600 Speaker 1: seemed as though he was starting to bring in witnesses, 1263 01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,200 Speaker 1: it really did seem as though this was all going 1264 01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:14,639 Speaker 1: to stem from the Stormy Daniels hush money payments by 1265 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,800 Speaker 1: Michael Cohen, and so was surprising to see the Karen 1266 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:23,400 Speaker 1: McDougall and Doorman incidents included within the falsefying business records 1267 01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,559 Speaker 1: in the first degree indictment. Remind us about that because 1268 01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,200 Speaker 1: that was that's sort of been memory hold a little bit. 1269 01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,559 Speaker 1: But I remember that incident that you know, some of 1270 01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,719 Speaker 1: the top prosecutors said, this guy is just not serious 1271 01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,599 Speaker 1: about going after Trump, so we're out of here. So 1272 01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:40,759 Speaker 1: were they wrong or did did he change his mind 1273 01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:44,000 Speaker 1: or did their quitting kind of pressure him? What's what's 1274 01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,599 Speaker 1: what's the sense among kind of the lawyer legal community 1275 01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,600 Speaker 1: in Manhattan about how you went from that moment to 1276 01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:55,479 Speaker 1: the moment that we saw this week. Well, I think 1277 01:12:55,800 --> 01:13:00,240 Speaker 1: people who know Mark Pomerance and what he did, it 1278 01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:04,679 Speaker 1: was pretty clear how sanctemonious and obnoxious and frankly racist 1279 01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,679 Speaker 1: he was being in his criticisms of Alvin, and he 1280 01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,200 Speaker 1: decided that if he didn't get to run the show, 1281 01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:15,320 Speaker 1: if anyone was going to have any oversight into what 1282 01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:18,600 Speaker 1: he was doing, especially a black man, he was not 1283 01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,240 Speaker 1: going to stand by and take that and then he 1284 01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:25,040 Speaker 1: basically decided to do this self promotional book tour, jeopardizing 1285 01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,600 Speaker 1: the investigation and now facing the repercussions of that in 1286 01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:32,120 Speaker 1: that he was just I believe and is going to 1287 01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:34,719 Speaker 1: have to deal with that. But I think that Alvin 1288 01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:37,920 Speaker 1: was always very serious about this. But he took the 1289 01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,920 Speaker 1: case very seriously and he wasn't going to rush into it. 1290 01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:44,360 Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, we may never know 1291 01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:48,559 Speaker 1: what the exactly had gone on prior to his taking 1292 01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,680 Speaker 1: office in terms of when Sybance was in charge, but 1293 01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:55,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem as though the prosecution was seriously going 1294 01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,600 Speaker 1: to go forward until Alvin book office. And so I 1295 01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:02,240 Speaker 1: think Alvin took his time, was measured and careful and 1296 01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,519 Speaker 1: really considered which charges he would be able to bring 1297 01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,880 Speaker 1: and prove the unreasonable doubt, And that is why we're 1298 01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,280 Speaker 1: seeing the indictment that we see. What do you make 1299 01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:15,680 Speaker 1: of how Bragg has sort of led all of this 1300 01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:17,479 Speaker 1: or like, as the leader of his office and as 1301 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:20,120 Speaker 1: somebody who was looking into this office, who ran for 1302 01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,040 Speaker 1: this office. What do you make of how he's conducted 1303 01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,360 Speaker 1: himself as a leader over the course of the last 1304 01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:27,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, not just several days, but 1305 01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,960 Speaker 1: several weeks, several months. You know, do you think he's 1306 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,600 Speaker 1: handled all of this well? Do you think you know 1307 01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:35,760 Speaker 1: there were unnecessarily do you think there were any blunders 1308 01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,360 Speaker 1: along the way, Like if you had to grade him 1309 01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:44,360 Speaker 1: in terms of the Trump indictment, where would you land. Well, 1310 01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:46,680 Speaker 1: if we're only talking about the Trump indictment, you know 1311 01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:48,920 Speaker 1: that I think remains to be seen. But I think 1312 01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:52,160 Speaker 1: he made some massive blunders in taking office and certainly 1313 01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:54,040 Speaker 1: has not run that office in the way that I 1314 01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:57,720 Speaker 1: would have. I think that the fact that he did 1315 01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:00,160 Speaker 1: not clean house at all, that the only people who 1316 01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:02,679 Speaker 1: have left that office are people who up and quit, 1317 01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:05,920 Speaker 1: and he did not fire a single person, means that 1318 01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,200 Speaker 1: if he even was serious about making real changes, he's 1319 01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:12,920 Speaker 1: had a really uphill battle in doing so, given that 1320 01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:17,760 Speaker 1: the entire administration has basically remained the same as it 1321 01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,879 Speaker 1: was under Sybans. So I have a lot of gripes 1322 01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:25,080 Speaker 1: with how Alvin is running that office, but not necessarily 1323 01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,600 Speaker 1: with regards to the Trump administration, and I mean the 1324 01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:33,000 Speaker 1: Trump prosecution. The Trump and Diamond has gotten come in 1325 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:35,559 Speaker 1: for a lot of criticism from people who say that 1326 01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:40,360 Speaker 1: the attempt to raise it from a misdemeanor into a 1327 01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:44,160 Speaker 1: felony by saying that it's you know, in furtherance of 1328 01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,880 Speaker 1: an additional crime runs into all sorts of problems, one 1329 01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,439 Speaker 1: of them being that one of the crimes is you know, 1330 01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:53,600 Speaker 1: an FEC violation which wasn't actually charged. The other that 1331 01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:56,840 Speaker 1: it might not be even in the federal jurisdiction. And 1332 01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,640 Speaker 1: for people who really wanted to see Trump, you know, 1333 01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:02,600 Speaker 1: hit was something that was a slam dunk? Is this 1334 01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:05,519 Speaker 1: really the best that could have been done? Was you know, 1335 01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,600 Speaker 1: was there more criminal behavior from that that could have 1336 01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,880 Speaker 1: been charged? As you were running for office and you 1337 01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,920 Speaker 1: were contemplating like, Okay, how would I set up a prosecution? 1338 01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,320 Speaker 1: What kind of holes do you think you would have 1339 01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:25,040 Speaker 1: dug that might have been left here? Well, the interesting 1340 01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:28,360 Speaker 1: thing about bringing forward to prosecution is that you're the 1341 01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:31,360 Speaker 1: person who has all of the evidence. So even when 1342 01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:33,960 Speaker 1: being asked about it, will campaigning, I could say, listen, 1343 01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,200 Speaker 1: if I believe Trump committed crimes in Manhattan, I will 1344 01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:38,599 Speaker 1: prosecute him. I will not be afraid to go after him, 1345 01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,559 Speaker 1: to cite his power and everything else. But I don't 1346 01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:45,799 Speaker 1: think that anyone aside from the people within that office, 1347 01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:49,000 Speaker 1: know what the exact evidence is at this point, So 1348 01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:51,880 Speaker 1: I think that are there other crimes that were committed. 1349 01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe, but these are clearly the ones 1350 01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:57,680 Speaker 1: that Alvin feels are the strongest to go forward on. 1351 01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:01,000 Speaker 1: And I don't think that he would have gone forward 1352 01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,000 Speaker 1: on these charges if he didn't feel he had a 1353 01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,960 Speaker 1: very strong case because of how thoughtful and measured and 1354 01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:10,160 Speaker 1: cautious he is as a person. I think that in 1355 01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:13,920 Speaker 1: terms of whether or not there are some of these 1356 01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:17,000 Speaker 1: legal arguments that are being made by attorneys who've never 1357 01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:20,400 Speaker 1: practiced in New York State or who feel like weighing 1358 01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:22,519 Speaker 1: in on this, saying that, oh, well, some of the 1359 01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:27,080 Speaker 1: underlying crimes might be federal, he might have the preemption 1360 01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,360 Speaker 1: doctrine might apply. That is not at all fired me. 1361 01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,360 Speaker 1: I think that, first of all, Alvin hasn't had to 1362 01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:39,040 Speaker 1: nor has he said, exactly what those underlying crimes are. 1363 01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,000 Speaker 1: Could they be New York state tax offenses, yes. Could 1364 01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:45,000 Speaker 1: they be state election law violations yes? Could they be 1365 01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:49,840 Speaker 1: federal campaign finance violation also yes? And I don't think 1366 01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,680 Speaker 1: that there will be any issue having heard some of 1367 01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,400 Speaker 1: the arguments on the other side that those are valid 1368 01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:00,640 Speaker 1: underlying crimes to go forward on again. This will be 1369 01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:02,320 Speaker 1: up to a jury. This will be a question of 1370 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,679 Speaker 1: fact for a jury to determine. And if the jurors 1371 01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:10,080 Speaker 1: feel that the misdemeanor conduct was proven but the underlying 1372 01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:13,160 Speaker 1: crime wasn't, they could still convict on what's called a 1373 01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:16,439 Speaker 1: lesser included offense, And so they could convict on the 1374 01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:19,720 Speaker 1: misdemeanor even though the top charges are felonies. The big 1375 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:21,320 Speaker 1: thing that we've heard from the right and Emily might 1376 01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:26,360 Speaker 1: have more thoughts on this, has been around George Soros 1377 01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:30,400 Speaker 1: backed prosecutor. But I want to unpack that a little 1378 01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,000 Speaker 1: bit from the because as you remember, I covered this 1379 01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:37,000 Speaker 1: campaign as well, and I do remember when the Color 1380 01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:39,760 Speaker 1: of Change Pack was the that's the organization. I think 1381 01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,160 Speaker 1: it's spent about four million dollars in the entire year, 1382 01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:46,240 Speaker 1: and about a million of that was from Soros. They 1383 01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:50,839 Speaker 1: did eventually endorse Alvin brag they did spend on his behalf. 1384 01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:54,599 Speaker 1: So as as an opponent of him, what was your 1385 01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:58,200 Speaker 1: sense of a kind of how important was the Color 1386 01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:02,280 Speaker 1: of Change pack? And b did people understand that as oh, 1387 01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,840 Speaker 1: this is the Soros kind of world getting behind him, 1388 01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:09,000 Speaker 1: or was this Color of Change which had Soros some 1389 01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:15,519 Speaker 1: Sorows money. So if I remember correctly, all of that 1390 01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:18,880 Speaker 1: kind of happened at once. It was the New York 1391 01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,040 Speaker 1: Times endorsement, the Color of Change endorsement, which was going 1392 01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:25,240 Speaker 1: to include that pack spending, and a couple of other 1393 01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,200 Speaker 1: things that fell into Alvan's favor, and it felt like 1394 01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:30,840 Speaker 1: a domino effect. So it's hard to say that there 1395 01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:34,840 Speaker 1: was any one thing that really determined the course of 1396 01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,800 Speaker 1: the election. But I think that in that moment, when 1397 01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:42,880 Speaker 1: all of that perfect storm of endorsements raining down and 1398 01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:46,439 Speaker 1: therefore a ton of spending along with it, that it 1399 01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:50,799 Speaker 1: certainly helped Alvin get elected. But I don't really remember 1400 01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:53,240 Speaker 1: people saying, oh, this is Soros money. I think it 1401 01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:56,200 Speaker 1: was more okay, he got the Color of Change endorsement 1402 01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:58,000 Speaker 1: in the New York Times endorsement, and all these other 1403 01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:01,840 Speaker 1: things simultaneously. And I think that most of the attacks 1404 01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:07,520 Speaker 1: calling him this Sorows backed prosecutor are frankly anti Semitism, 1405 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:11,920 Speaker 1: and we should disregard them as just completely disingenuous. So 1406 01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:13,599 Speaker 1: you have an op ed out in the Daily Beast 1407 01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,400 Speaker 1: this week called stopping Trump from running for office again 1408 01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:18,760 Speaker 1: is bad for democracy? Could you just sort of flesh 1409 01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,000 Speaker 1: out the argument you make. We've actually already touched on 1410 01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:23,200 Speaker 1: some of the points, but could you flesh out some 1411 01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:25,160 Speaker 1: of the points that you make in this this really 1412 01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:29,080 Speaker 1: interesting piece. Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I 1413 01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:32,600 Speaker 1: did not choose the headline, although it is something that 1414 01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:36,040 Speaker 1: I said in the piece. Basically I heard, i think, 1415 01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:40,200 Speaker 1: on MSNBC this week people saying, oh, well, if he's 1416 01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:44,719 Speaker 1: convicted of a felony, we should bar him from running 1417 01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:47,160 Speaker 1: for president. It should be a bar. You know, this 1418 01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:49,960 Speaker 1: is a bar on voting in many states, it should 1419 01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,960 Speaker 1: be a bar on running for office. And that led 1420 01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,320 Speaker 1: me to kind of just shooting off a tweet saying 1421 01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,680 Speaker 1: that this would be bad for democracy because of the 1422 01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:01,760 Speaker 1: way the criminal legal system operates, the way that it 1423 01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:05,799 Speaker 1: disenfranchises and marginalizes, you know, people of color, low income folks, 1424 01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:09,559 Speaker 1: you know, other marginalized groups. If we are to bar 1425 01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:14,720 Speaker 1: those people from running for office, preventing people with felony convictions, 1426 01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:19,479 Speaker 1: it would be very bad for democracy. It would be 1427 01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:21,559 Speaker 1: something that would be problematic. It would be you know, 1428 01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:28,400 Speaker 1: weaponizing something that is not that. It's not good. And so, yes, 1429 01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:31,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people are salivating at this over you know, 1430 01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,640 Speaker 1: the idea that it would apply to Trump, But the 1431 01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:38,200 Speaker 1: reality is we should be evaluating candidates based on their bios, 1432 01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:41,280 Speaker 1: their backgrounds, their histories, and individual voters should do that. 1433 01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:44,240 Speaker 1: And if they're convicted of a felony and that makes 1434 01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,400 Speaker 1: someone not want to vote for them, then that's fine. 1435 01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,800 Speaker 1: But due to the way our criminal legal system disproportionately 1436 01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:54,200 Speaker 1: disenfranchises and stigmatizes people of color and poor, vulnerable people, 1437 01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:58,840 Speaker 1: we should not be pushing for this as a overarching thing. 1438 01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,640 Speaker 1: If you had to put a number on it, what 1439 01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:05,599 Speaker 1: would you say? What portion of the campaign was about 1440 01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:09,320 Speaker 1: Trump and holding Trump accountable? And what portion of it 1441 01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:17,600 Speaker 1: was about local issues local to Manhattan voters. Oh gosh, 1442 01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:21,840 Speaker 1: I would say Trump came up in most of our 1443 01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:25,840 Speaker 1: forums or debates. It was certainly an issue that was 1444 01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:28,639 Speaker 1: brought up time and time again. There were pieces about 1445 01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:32,040 Speaker 1: what each of us had said with regards to a 1446 01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:37,160 Speaker 1: Trump prosecution, and so maybe I would say it encompassed 1447 01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,719 Speaker 1: twenty percent or less. I mean, I think the majority 1448 01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:44,800 Speaker 1: of the campaign was still about local issues, about bail, 1449 01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:48,760 Speaker 1: about criminal justice, about public safety, about other things that 1450 01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:51,639 Speaker 1: the DA's office would do. But I do think Trump 1451 01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,519 Speaker 1: was a huge a huge factor. How do you feel 1452 01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:58,080 Speaker 1: watching this unfolded? What's your portion of fomo and what's 1453 01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:01,200 Speaker 1: your portion of like, Man, I'm glad I'm not in 1454 01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,439 Speaker 1: the middle of this. It's funny. I've had a lot 1455 01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:10,080 Speaker 1: of people reach out to me saying, Hey, selfishly, I 1456 01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:12,920 Speaker 1: am glad that you are not the person doing this, 1457 01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:15,599 Speaker 1: because you would be the one getting these death threats. 1458 01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:17,880 Speaker 1: You would be the one whose family would be being 1459 01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:20,639 Speaker 1: put on blast, whose life would potentially be in danger 1460 01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,280 Speaker 1: from all of these people who are so angry about 1461 01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:28,040 Speaker 1: this prosecution. But that's not all how I feel. I 1462 01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:32,000 Speaker 1: certainly still very much wish that I were the person 1463 01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:36,720 Speaker 1: running the Manhattan DA's office, And yes, with regards to 1464 01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:40,240 Speaker 1: this one prosecution, but mostly with regards to how that 1465 01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:45,879 Speaker 1: office is still you know, destroying families, ruining lives, especially 1466 01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:47,760 Speaker 1: the lives of my clients. And so I see on 1467 01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,439 Speaker 1: a daily basis the ways in which my clients are 1468 01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:54,360 Speaker 1: hurt by that office, the way their prosecutions are still 1469 01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:58,000 Speaker 1: more of the same, and in many ways. Alvin is 1470 01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:01,160 Speaker 1: Cybance two point zero, and so I I very much 1471 01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:05,080 Speaker 1: regret not having won that election, right Sivan's two point zero, 1472 01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:08,800 Speaker 1: But prosecuted Trump like that seems to be kind of 1473 01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:12,000 Speaker 1: the distinction that we're exactly working with here. Uh well, 1474 01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,080 Speaker 1: Elizah Orleans, thank you so much for joining us. Really 1475 01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:21,360 Speaker 1: appreciate it, of course anytime. That was really interesting. Yeah, 1476 01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,320 Speaker 1: I actually thought your last question was one of the 1477 01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:26,680 Speaker 1: more interesting ones, just in that it was a It 1478 01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:28,680 Speaker 1: was a great interview. But when you at the end 1479 01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:32,280 Speaker 1: asked the question about whether she was more whether she 1480 01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:36,800 Speaker 1: had FOMO, that was a great answer just saying yes, 1481 01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:39,160 Speaker 1: because I think the office could be run better. Yeah, 1482 01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:41,559 Speaker 1: And I love people who want to be in the ring. Yeah, 1483 01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:43,280 Speaker 1: because if you're going to try to throw your hat 1484 01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:44,960 Speaker 1: in the ring, you've got to be you gotta want it. 1485 01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:49,800 Speaker 1: And the amount of misogyny that a former reality TV 1486 01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:54,360 Speaker 1: star like her would be dealing with, yeah, would be 1487 01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:59,080 Speaker 1: just absolutely extraordinary. Would it would? The country is having 1488 01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:01,679 Speaker 1: a difficult enough with the racism getting you know, thrown 1489 01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:05,400 Speaker 1: at Alvin Bragg as a result of this, It would. 1490 01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:07,680 Speaker 1: It would be such a spectacle, and it is such 1491 01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:10,559 Speaker 1: a spectacle. If we were destined for a spectacle, no 1492 01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,759 Speaker 1: matter what, that's the story of the United States of America. 1493 01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,040 Speaker 1: We're always destined for a spectacle. I hope she runs 1494 01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:21,479 Speaker 1: again for dad be interesting to follow him. And you know, 1495 01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:24,400 Speaker 1: if if this falls apart and Brag's hands, then certainly 1496 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,080 Speaker 1: that makes it much more difficult for Brag to run 1497 01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:31,799 Speaker 1: for reelection. Yeah, and he's gotten a lot of criticism 1498 01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:34,800 Speaker 1: even just since we were on the air. At at 1499 01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:36,760 Speaker 1: the Federals, we published a list of twelve I think 1500 01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:40,880 Speaker 1: it was like liberals and anti Trump pundits who have 1501 01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,840 Speaker 1: questioned Bragg's indictment. And it goes from like Andy McCabe, 1502 01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:50,040 Speaker 1: Like Andy McCabe. A few people are like hungrier for 1503 01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, Trump to be in prison than him. Has 1504 01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:57,599 Speaker 1: anybody gotten Comy on the record? Comy tweeted, I think 1505 01:25:57,600 --> 01:25:59,719 Speaker 1: he tweeted like today is a good day, something stupid 1506 01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:04,679 Speaker 1: like that. I know, right, but yeah, Brag is really 1507 01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:07,320 Speaker 1: you know, there have been New York Times, New Yorker 1508 01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:08,920 Speaker 1: op eds and support of what he did, but then 1509 01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:12,960 Speaker 1: there's also been a chorus of establishment voices questioning it, 1510 01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:17,600 Speaker 1: which is when you're anti Trump, you're not used to that. No, 1511 01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:21,320 Speaker 1: the Great Brag Drag. Anyway, thanks everybody for joining us, 1512 01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:22,840 Speaker 1: and we'll see you next week.