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Speaker 1: Folks to Night's classic episode is about one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest musical acts in human history. No, we're not talking

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Speaker 1: about Wham. No, we're not talking about Gregorian Chant. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about the Beatles, but not the bug. Read it.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a pun. It's like beat less.

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Speaker 2: I know that escapes me for a long time. Guys.

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Speaker 2: Turns out there would be no Wham or Gregorian Chant,

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Speaker 2: or dancing or magazines that weren't for the Beatles. Those

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Speaker 2: things are entirely true. But they did have a huge

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Speaker 2: influence on music and pop culture and film. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you name it. They really caught the imagination of America

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Speaker 2: in the form of the British invasion. Yeah, the Beatles.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I really like this band or this topic.

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Speaker 3: Maybe No, it's the band. I think I really liked

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Speaker 3: the band. And it's cool to know that there's there

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Speaker 3: are so many conspiracies surrounding them. It's like they live

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Speaker 3: in a Kospira cloud.

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Speaker 4: And with that, we're off to the races from UFOs

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Speaker 4: to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with

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Speaker 4: unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff.

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Speaker 4: They don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Well, hey everybody, and welcome to the show. You know

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Speaker 2: by hearing my voice first that our compatriot and the

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Speaker 2: loved friend, Matt is not here.

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Speaker 1: Matt, it's true, is on a top secret adventure which

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Speaker 1: we cannot disclose details about at this point. However, he

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Speaker 1: will return and as far as we know, he is

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Speaker 1: safe and sound, so stay tuned for the return of

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Speaker 1: Matt Frederick.

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Speaker 2: We had to sign some ironclad NDAs about this whole affair.

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Speaker 1: I didn't sign it, but they call me Ben. We

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Speaker 1: are joined, of course, with our super producer Paul Decant.

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Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. With

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Speaker 1: an episode that's been a long time in coming in,

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Speaker 1: I'm a little sad Matt's not here.

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Speaker 2: I am super sad. But I will say something I'm

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Speaker 2: not sad about is that I have the perfect nickname

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Speaker 2: for Paul for this episode. It's Paul the Walrus decand

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Speaker 2: I'll take it. Yeah, Oh come on, dude, that's perfect.

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Speaker 1: Hey yeah, well let's see. Yeah, I'll go with it.

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Speaker 1: Because Paul was the uh let's see, Paul was the

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Speaker 1: Walrus and the Beatles, and who is the Eggman.

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Speaker 2: Well in the in the Magical Mystery Tour film, I

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Speaker 2: believe John was the Eggman, but the Walrus was. Paul

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Speaker 2: is a lyric from a song off the White Album

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Speaker 2: called glass Onion. And that's another reference to the ubiquitous,

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Speaker 2: probably most well known Beatles conspiracy theory that there is

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Speaker 2: that Paul McCartney died before his time and living life

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Speaker 2: as a double, some sort of doppele that was hired

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Speaker 2: to replace him. But we will get into that later.

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Speaker 1: Which I appreciate the foreshadowing there, Noel, because that is

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons that I wish Matt we're here today.

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Speaker 1: Way back in the early days of stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know, we did a video wherein we

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Speaker 1: portrayed my trusty longtime friend Matt Frederick as a Beatles

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theorist obsessed with the Paul McCartney concept. But let's

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Speaker 1: take a step back and start with the introduction some facts. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: clearly you've heard of the Beatles. We don't make too

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Speaker 1: many assumptions on this show. But if you are listening

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Speaker 1: now and you are thinking, this is a show about

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Speaker 1: insects that we have given names.

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Speaker 2: To and misspelled in the title.

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Speaker 1: Right and misspelled in the title. We promise you there

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Speaker 1: is a method to the madness. The Beatles, you see,

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Speaker 1: b E A t l e s are or one of,

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Speaker 1: if not the most famous bands in human history, not

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Speaker 1: in modern history, not in recent history alone, all of

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Speaker 1: it human history.

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Speaker 2: And hey, no ding on you, anyone out there if

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Speaker 2: you never notice until this moment that Beatles is spelled

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Speaker 2: funny because we actually had a conversation in the break

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Speaker 2: room with Paul the Walrace and he mentioned that he

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Speaker 2: and only just noticed the fact that it was spelled

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Speaker 2: b E A t l e s as opposed to

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Speaker 2: the traditional spelling of the insect b E E t

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Speaker 2: l e S.

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Speaker 1: Well, not just noticed, he said in college.

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Speaker 2: Well that's you know, ay man. We're about a spec

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Speaker 2: right now in the in the grand scheme of funds.

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Speaker 2: College was like last week.

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Speaker 1: So let's put some numbers behind that claim of being

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Speaker 1: the most famous band in human history. According to UK

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Speaker 1: newspaper note The Guardian, the Beatles have sold over one

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy eight million units or albums. That's not

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Speaker 1: counting the over one point six billion singles they've sold.

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Speaker 1: Closer to two billion nons, and that's not counting the

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Speaker 1: innumerable movies, documentaries, covers, tributes, action figures, branded toys, the

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Speaker 1: Hobo teeth, other merchandise, board games and so on associated

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Speaker 1: with the band, board games and so on associated with

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Speaker 1: the band.

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Speaker 2: Of course, yes, they were definitely merch rich, those Beatles,

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Speaker 2: and I bet you know what else about it doesn't

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Speaker 2: include what's that streams because they only just pretty recently,

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Speaker 2: I mean not college recently, No more recently than college.

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Speaker 1: Just a few years back.

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Speaker 2: A few years back got added to Spotify, and that

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Speaker 2: was a really big deal because they, you know, because

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Speaker 2: the Apple Records and Parlophone and whatnot retained all the

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Speaker 2: rights to that stuff with an iron fist. It was

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Speaker 2: not on any streaming services until they obviously struck up

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Speaker 2: some kind of pretty lucrative deal with Spotify.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a huge deal with Apple Music a

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Speaker 1: few years earlier.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's right, Ben, And it was certainly part of

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Speaker 2: a big old ad push. You know, Hey, the Beatles

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Speaker 2: are on streaming, so I'd be interested to see because

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Speaker 2: now streaming numbers do factor into units moved in some

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Speaker 2: odd kind of formulation arcanes.

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Speaker 1: It's a little weird are some arcane incantation for measuring

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Speaker 1: success and also for any hardcore Beatles fans in the audience. Today,

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Speaker 1: we do have to point out that it can be

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Speaker 1: surprisingly difficult to get reliable, up to date statistics for

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Speaker 1: a lot of numbers. You will see other claims that say, no,

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Speaker 1: the Eagles of all bands are the most most lucrative

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Speaker 1: or popular best selling bands.

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Speaker 2: Did you know what, though, the Eagles suck? You're one

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Speaker 2: of those Huh yeah, I'm a bit of a Lebowski,

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Speaker 2: you know what, Now, I'm just being a curmudge and

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Speaker 2: the Eagles do not suck. I will tell you though,

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Speaker 2: this is apropos of short thing.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: I went through with a friend of mine. I said

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Speaker 2: something like, what do the Eagles have like five hits?

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Speaker 2: The guy's like, no, dude, it's like twenty. And it

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Speaker 2: is almost exactly twenty giant, giant hits that the Eagles had. So,

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Speaker 2: whether you dig their music or not, they were highly influential,

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Speaker 2: at least in terms of the mainstream.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the ubiquity of the Eagles that turns

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Speaker 1: a lot of people off, because you know, they're famous

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Speaker 1: in elevators across the planet. You'll hear some sort of

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Speaker 1: version of I'll tell you what. Nothing is quite the

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Speaker 1: same level of depressing as being alone in a grocery

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Speaker 1: store at three am and hearing an instrumental music version

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Speaker 1: of Desperado playing while you're walking by the frozen Food aisle.

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Speaker 2: I will say, I really do like the Los Lobos

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Speaker 2: version of Hotel California that's on the Big Lebowski soundtrack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the covers are great, but you could say,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You could say the same thing about

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Speaker 1: the Beatles. There are so many Beatles covers that have

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Speaker 1: been done through so many iterations that they're eventually just

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Speaker 1: becoming this sort of musical cannon that everybody knows how

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Speaker 1: to play a variation of I Mean. It's no surprise

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Speaker 1: then that even in twenty eighteen, with spoiler alert half

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Speaker 1: of the Beatles Dead, Fans and Friends theories the like

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Speaker 1: insists that the world has yet to hear the true

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Speaker 1: story of what are also known as the Fab Four.

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Speaker 1: That's fab short for fabulous. So this whole crazy tale

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Speaker 1: of the Beatles begins way back in the mid fifties

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Speaker 1: with the kid who was kind of a popular cool guy,

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Speaker 1: a hot head.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was really down with this whole skiffle scene.

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Speaker 1: You know, the skiffle scene is the skiffle CRAZEY.

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Speaker 2: Give it, give it to me. I always have a

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Speaker 2: hard time remembering how it one would because I think

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Speaker 2: it's sort of a folk thing. We've talked about it before, sure, skiffle.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's sort of like a blues based folk hybrid

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Speaker 5: that sort of takes American traditional music and turned it

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Speaker 5: a little bit into more of a I don't know,

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Speaker 5: a rock and roll kind of jug band.

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Speaker 1: It's a pastiche of folk music American music that was

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Speaker 1: popular at the times, and John Lenin and co. Were

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Speaker 1: particularly enamored of American prison songs from the South. So

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Speaker 1: when John Lennon took some of his buddies and formed

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Speaker 1: a group called the quarry Men, they would play these

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Speaker 1: prison songs from the American South during what was known

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Speaker 1: as the skiffle Craze. Lennon was around seventeen at this time,

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Speaker 1: but he already knew another kid who was a couple

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Speaker 1: of years younger than him, who really wanted to be cool,

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of a straight laced kid with

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Speaker 1: stricter parents. He was fifteen years old, his name was

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Speaker 1: Paul McCartney, and cool guy John Lennon came to Paul

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Speaker 1: and said, hey, do you want to play music with

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Speaker 1: me even though you're only fifteen. So soon they began

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Speaker 1: composing songs and playing music together. We'll fast forward. You

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Speaker 1: can hear entire volumes of this story. It's a tale

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Speaker 1: as old as time.

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Speaker 2: And I think most Beatles fans have some inkling of

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Speaker 2: the Hamburg days and like the young lads from Liverpool

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Speaker 2: kind of like getting together informing themselves a rock and

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Speaker 2: roll band. So then the next thing that happened was

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Speaker 2: in February of nineteen fifty eight, Paul invited a buddy

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Speaker 2: of his guy from around town, George Harrison used to

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Speaker 2: come and check out the band, and then he actually auditioned.

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Speaker 2: And Lennon, who you know, the hot head bad boy

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Speaker 2: of the crew, who probably you know, was a bit

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Speaker 2: of the ringleader. It seems like it wasn't so sure

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Speaker 2: about George because he was a little too young, even

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Speaker 2: though he was only the same age as as Paul.

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Speaker 2: But George could shred.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So the first audition that Harrison had, Lennon says.

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Speaker 1: Lennon says, well too, he's too young. He's pretty good,

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Speaker 1: but he's too young. So George comes back young. George

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Speaker 1: comes back a second time, and according to the story,

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Speaker 1: he played a lead guitar part from a song they

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Speaker 1: all knew on the top level of a double decker

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Speaker 1: bus and John Lennon essentially went, okay, yeah, fine, forget it.

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Speaker 1: He's fifteen. He's fifteen. He's also our lead guitarist.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: And then eventually other members of the quarry Man set left,

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Speaker 1: so they were in a weird situation. Was just John,

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Speaker 1: Paul and George and they were playing guitar pretty much

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Speaker 1: when they could find a drummer, and they said, we

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Speaker 1: need we need some more people. And that's when they

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Speaker 1: started picking up some names that are going to be

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Speaker 1: familiar to more hardcore Beatles fans, but maybe not familiar

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Speaker 1: to people who only know the Fab four.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they picked up a guy named Stu or Stuart Sutcliffe,

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Speaker 2: who played a little bass. You know, you always think

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Speaker 2: of Paul as playing the bass, So what was what

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Speaker 2: was Paul playing if Stu was sitting on the bass.

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Speaker 2: Were they three guitars strong plus bass?

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Speaker 1: I believe so? So yeah, And at the time, here's

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Speaker 1: Stuart's big contribution to the band. He is the one

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Speaker 1: who suggested changing the group's name to the Beatles or

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Speaker 1: the beat All and you'll hear a couple of different spellings,

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Speaker 1: and he said this as a tribute to Buddy Holly

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Speaker 1: and the Crickets, a group that both John Lennon and

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Speaker 1: Paul McCartney had idolized for some time, and clearly Stu

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Speaker 1: felt the same. Over the nineteen sixties, their name would

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Speaker 1: change a few more times, first to the.

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Speaker 2: Silver Beatles, always retaining that beat spelling though, which is

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Speaker 2: important because that's sort of like the little bit of

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Speaker 2: a play on words.

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Speaker 1: It's Gold Jerry Gold.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder too if it was a reference to

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Speaker 2: There was a zine I guess for lack of a

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Speaker 2: vetume called Mercy beat that one of John Lennon's high

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Speaker 2: school buddies started, and that's Mercy me Er s Y

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Speaker 2: b E A T. And that was actually the publication

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Speaker 2: that kind of covered a lot of the early Beatles

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Speaker 2: exploits in that skiffle movement or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah could be. You know a lot of times. Well,

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Speaker 1: at least Stuart Sutcliffe himself will attribute that inspiration for

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Speaker 1: the name to himself. It's probably true in some way,

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Speaker 1: but also you know, people are fond of that kind

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Speaker 1: of attribution. They while they were going through this name change,

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Speaker 1: they said, okay, look we just need a drummer, and

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Speaker 1: so they hired a guy named Pete Best and for

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Speaker 1: a time they were playing as a five piece band.

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Speaker 1: Their first British performance as the Beatles happens on December seventeenth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty to a place called the Cosbak Coffee Club

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Speaker 1: in Liverpool, CoSbAs and Rock and Thee And while they

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Speaker 1: were recording for the first time in the studio in

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Speaker 1: August of nineteen sixty two, during their first session together,

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Speaker 1: Pete Best was apparently just not cutting the mustard and

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Speaker 1: they got their manager to let go of Pete Best.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was right after. I think it was even

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Speaker 2: the manager, George Martin who said the drummers gotta go.

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Speaker 1: They all all agreed.

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Speaker 2: I've heard one story where that was definitely a thing.

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Speaker 2: But apparently they had a problem with his haircut because

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Speaker 2: he had kind of much more of the traditional kind

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Speaker 2: of greaser pompadoor haircut, whereas by this point the dudes

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Speaker 2: were rocking that British mod mop top that we know

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Speaker 2: and love so well. That became the hallmark of their look.

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Speaker 2: And it just goes to show that even early on

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Speaker 2: in their career, they were very conscious of this image,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and their manager had famously told them that if

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Speaker 1: they wanted to be big, it's like, look, you have

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Speaker 1: to do better. Image wise. You can't because they were

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Speaker 1: just showing up and smoking or eating and drinking on

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Speaker 1: stage and wearing whatever they have been wearing that day.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you need to get some proper trousers. There's

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Speaker 1: some great quotes about it, especially because I guess that's

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Speaker 1: back when people said trousers more often.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 2: And it's crazy because this is George Martin's career before

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Speaker 2: he wrote those awesome Game of Thrones books. You know,

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Speaker 2: who knew he actually had a story career as a

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Speaker 2: record producer and manager.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was really just doing the Beatles, I

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Speaker 1: think to support his love of.

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Speaker 2: And his love of frappuccinos.

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Speaker 1: He's he's pretty candid about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They so they got rid of Pete Best and that's

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Speaker 1: when Ringo Starr comes into the picture. Also, Stuart Sutcliffe

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Speaker 1: had earlier left of his own accord to pursue a

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Speaker 1: career in art. That had to be a real kick

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Speaker 1: in the pants later for the guy. You know you're

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Speaker 1: familiar with a lot of the discography. In October nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty two, their first single, As the Beatles comes out.

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Speaker 1: It's called Love Me Do Do It, enters the British

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Speaker 1: charts reaches number seventeen, pretty good for a first time out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is like their earliest, earliest days and sound,

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Speaker 2: which is much more akin to like the Phil Specter

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Speaker 2: kind of traditional rock and roll, I mean really just

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Speaker 2: kind of a lot more straightforward but very catchy melodies

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Speaker 2: that they would continue to incorporate into their future stuff.

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Speaker 2: But it obviously got a little weirder and cooler in

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Speaker 2: my opinion thankfully.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because this is a little bit poppy boy bandy stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know, a simple kind of three chord Buddy Holly

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Speaker 1: esque for lack of a better word. In nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 1: February eleventh, they record their first album, Please Please Meet,

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Speaker 1: and they do it all in one day. In November

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, same year, With the Beatles becomes the

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Speaker 1: first million selling album in Britain, and then they begin

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Speaker 1: their crazy evolution. Their domination of the world, as well

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Speaker 1: as their internal change as a band. In February of

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, they tour the US for the first time.

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Speaker 1: People lose their minds, they're out of their gourds, the

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Speaker 1: barn doors wide open, whatever idiom you want to use,

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Speaker 1: their nuts. This is where you see a lot of

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Speaker 1: that archival footage of people just screaming and screeching as

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Speaker 1: the guys get off the plane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, in particular young ladies. They were quite

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Speaker 2: fond of these, these lads from these Liverpoodlian lads. Did

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Speaker 2: you know that's the word for it, Liverpool. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: a weird inexplicable dal. Yeah. There's one story about how

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Speaker 2: a woman came up behind Ringo and like snipped a

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Speaker 2: lock of his hair. So this was during their first

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Speaker 2: trip to the United States. I believe they did the

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Speaker 2: At Sullivan Show and then broke TV.

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Speaker 1: Record numbers blew up. And I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: us listening today will say, well, yeah, of course somebody's

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Speaker 1: gonna sneak up behind you and snip a lock your hair.

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Speaker 1: That happens, you know, that happens on a semi regular basis.

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Speaker 1: But this was a different time, So things begin to

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Speaker 1: are you kidding?

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Speaker 2: What are you kidding about? The lock of your hair? Snippery?

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Speaker 1: No, that doesn't happen to you.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've reached those heights yet.

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Speaker 1: We hang out, maybe just at different circles.

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Speaker 2: I guess. So we hang out together a lot, though.

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Speaker 2: But are people doing this to you? Are you okay?

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Speaker 1: Are you dude? Do you want me to point it

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Speaker 1: out when someone does it to you?

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Speaker 2: Please?

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Speaker 1: Okay? You have my word.

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Speaker 2: Do you think they're just being really stealthy about it?

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Speaker 2: I'm just not noticing.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen it happen, but you acted

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Speaker 1: like it was normal.

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Speaker 2: The wiser my friend.

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Speaker 1: Well that is, you know what, as a team, we

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Speaker 1: can all we can all do better. Also, typically it

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Speaker 1: is Matt who is sneaking up behind you. I just

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Speaker 1: want to put that out there.

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Speaker 2: Oh I've caught him doing that before. It's in the hall.

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Speaker 2: But listen, I wanted to point one thing out. Sure,

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Speaker 2: move on. In sixty five, the Beatles play say Stadium

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Speaker 2: and it's just like Bonker Nanza's and it's like that

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Speaker 2: was literally the creation of the arena rock genre. Even

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Speaker 2: though it's funny because the Beatles. You don't picture that

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Speaker 2: as being a mega rock show because they're even even

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Speaker 2: like their early stuff, it's a little more traditionally rock

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Speaker 2: and roll.

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Speaker 1: Again, it was a very different time. Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things that really pushed them

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Speaker 1: to that arena status is the year earlier. On July

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Speaker 1: sixth of nineteen sixty four, they had debuted the film

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Speaker 1: A Hard Days Night, and they had released a soundtrack

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Speaker 1: with that on August tenth that reached number one. It

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Speaker 1: also that soundtrack included additional songs, so they were doing

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Speaker 1: some thing very intelligent. They were releasing albums concurrently or

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00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:09,400
Speaker 1: roughly concurrently with films, so if you are a super fan,

360
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: you can embrace multiple avenues of fandom. This way, they

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Speaker 1: meet the Queen, they play the arena. As you said, Noel,

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Speaker 1: they release another film, Help, and the group internally and

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Speaker 1: content wise begins to change. On December third of nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty five, they release Rubber Soul. This is often cited

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Speaker 1: as a turning point for the band. They begin to

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Speaker 1: depart from those very straightforward rock and roll roots we

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. They released Revolver. In sixty six, they released

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band in sixty seven, it

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Speaker 1: becomes the highest selling British album of all time, and

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Speaker 1: I think it still holds up. I really like that album,

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Speaker 1: which one Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart's called.

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Speaker 6: Oh Ye's okay, Yeah it's okay.

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Speaker 2: You know what they call it? Stone cold class my friend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. They released Magical Mystery Tour in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty seven.

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Speaker 2: That's actually my favorite.

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Speaker 1: November twenty seventh.

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Speaker 2: That's just super psyche stuff by that is.

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Speaker 1: More so than the the just the Beatles album in sixty.

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Speaker 2: Eight, you know, the Wild album. Yeah, that to me,

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Speaker 2: that's a different Beatles though. Like I really like like

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Speaker 2: the Magical Mystery Tour and Sergeant Pepper are like the

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Speaker 2: most kind of candy dripping psychedelic records that they have

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Speaker 2: in their catalog. Then the White Album has some weird

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Speaker 2: stuff on it, but it's much more of a songwriter,

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Speaker 2: a straightforward kind of And they also say that was

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Speaker 2: when they had their breakup. Was emine because a lot

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Speaker 2: of people refer to that album as a series of

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Speaker 2: solo songs.

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Speaker 1: We's just referred to it as a he says, not

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Speaker 1: a Beatles record. He said, it's a series of solo songs,

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Speaker 1: and we all this is something where the fans perhaps

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Speaker 1: one out over the creators, because the creators just released

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Speaker 1: this white album cover and they called it the Beatles

395
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Speaker 1: an eponymous record, but everyone else has called it the

396
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Speaker 1: Wide Album, and that's what it goes down in history.

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Speaker 1: As they've also been really films. But yes, their internal

398
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: organization is beginning to stagnate and decay. In January of

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, a documentary is filmed. It's called Let

400
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Speaker 1: It Be, and it's intended as an account of the Beatles' rebirth,

401
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 1: but instead it ends up chronicling their demise and they

402
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Speaker 1: are headed for an inevitable breakup. Speaking of breakups, let's

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Speaker 1: take a break for a word from our sponsors. So

404
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,159
Speaker 1: as they're retaining this massive fame, the band members are

405
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Speaker 1: growing increasingly distant. In nineteen sixty nine, John Lennon privately

406
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Speaker 1: tells the rest of the band that he plans to

407
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Speaker 1: leave the part Skid Daddle. They ask him to keep

408
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: it under wraps, so they keep this statement private. In

409
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Speaker 1: April of nineteen seventy, Ringo Starr is the only one

410
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Speaker 1: to show up for a final studio session for a

411
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Speaker 1: Beatles record. There's no real formal announcement. They had intended

412
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Speaker 1: to let it peter out, but on April tenth, Paul

413
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: publicly announces his own departure, and news spreads that The

414
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Speaker 1: Beatles are no more. Their thirteenth and final album, Let

415
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Speaker 1: It Be, is released on May eighth. In the aftermath,

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Speaker 1: without delving into all the legal issues they had and

417
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Speaker 1: all the personal acrimony that occurred, we should just say

418
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 1: that the band's breakup did not end well. It was

419
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Speaker 1: not amicable, and for a time several members, particularly Paul McCartney,

420
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Speaker 1: felt really constrained and tied down by the various agreements

421
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Speaker 1: they have made in as the Beatles. In December of

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, John Lennon fatally shot. November of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one, George Harrison succumbs to lung cancer. As we

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Speaker 1: record this, Ringo Starr and Paul McCartney are still alive,

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Speaker 1: still with us, the last living members of the world's

426
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Speaker 1: best selling band, and oddly enough, many of their fans

427
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: suspect these two men may hold secrets their bandmates took

428
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Speaker 1: to the grave. So here's where it gets crazy.

429
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's hard to be a band that

430
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Speaker 2: rises to such meteoric fames so quickly and sustains that fame,

431
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: not only sustains it as a popular phenomenon, but actually

432
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Speaker 2: as a critical darling, you know, and just considered to

433
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Speaker 2: be incredible artists and songwriters and influencers of the zeitgeist

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Speaker 2: and like recording techniques and everything you could possibly imagine

435
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,959
Speaker 2: pop culture wise, these guys had their hands in. You know,

436
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: it's very difficult to be that influential and not have

437
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 2: people coming up with some interesting theories about stuff that

438
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 2: went on, especially considering that they were a little clandestine

439
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: about certain aspects of their lives and their careers. Early on,

440
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 2: they had this image of like this squeaky clean kind

441
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 2: of boy band, almost like almost like a manufacturer thing

442
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 2: with the screaming girls at Shay Stadium and whatnot. But

443
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: then over time they evolved into much more guru like,

444
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: you know, kings of psychedelia, and then even beyond them,

445
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: became much more involved in activism and use their platform,

446
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 2: especially Lenin to influence world events, which we'll get into.

447
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: So when when you have those kind of conditions colliding,

448
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it brews up some pretty interesting conspiracy theories,

449
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: and we're gonna talk about some of the most popular

450
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 2: ones or the most Maybe some of them you may

451
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: have heard of, and some of them are a little

452
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: under the radar I have not heard of. But uh,

453
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 2: they're the most They're the ones that interested us the most.

454
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we have to. In honor of our compatriot, Matt,

455
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: we want to start with one of your favorite ones. Matt.

456
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: We know he's listening. Hey, Matt, it's that Paul McCartney

457
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: is dead. This is, as you said, Noel, one of

458
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: the most well known, perhaps strangest Beatles conspiracy theories. The

459
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: idea is the following, the real Paul McCartney, the one

460
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: that you see in various interviews or appearances or the

461
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: occasional cameo. Isn't Paul McCartney at all. That man is

462
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: an impostor the genuine Paul McCartney, the little uh what's

463
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: the word, Noel Liverpudlian, Liverpoodlian, Liverpoodlian, the little Liver Poodlian,

464
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: Little Liver Poodlian actually died in the early hours of

465
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: November ninth, nineteen sixty six. After his car skidded off

466
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: an icy road and crashed into a pole. According to

467
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: the story, when John Lennon and George and Ringo found

468
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: out about this death, they thought that they would not

469
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: be able to come back from it because we just

470
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: walked through their earlier timeline. This is sixty six. A

471
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: lot of great things are happening, they're reaching heights, but

472
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: they think they have further to go. So, according to

473
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: this legend, they covered up his death, replacing him with

474
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: a look alike, a guy named Billy Shears who already looked,

475
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: acted and even sounded like the actual Paul McCartney.

476
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: You mean Billy Shears from a little help from my

477
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 2: friends on you know when they go.

478
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 6: Bely She's and that's the that's the guy, that's Ringo's

479
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 6: character in a little help for my friends.

480
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: What would you think if I was saying, yeah, that's

481
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: Billy Shears, So that's is that that's That's that a clue?

482
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: Maybe it is, And I'm glad you mentioned clues here

483
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: because they the question is are you hearing Billy Shears

484
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: or Billy's here? You know this this is one of

485
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: the one of the primary pieces of proof for people

486
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: who believe this theory. They are these ideas that various

487
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: audio artifacts have been hidden in inside Beatles recordings. They

488
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: give you clues to the story, right, And that's that's

489
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: one of them. But there's another one that might be

490
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: even more more familiar to our fellow conspiracy realist.

491
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 2: Well, there's there's a lot of them, and a lot

492
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: of them. A lot of this one revolves around hidden images,

493
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of most of these do

494
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: revolve around things hidden in plain sight or plain audio.

495
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, because it said audio artifacts earlier. But it's

496
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: important to notice a lot of the album artwork itself

497
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: is pointed to as proof of this.

498
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, album art and even press photos and things like that.

499
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 2: But yeah, So one of the lyrics on Sergeant Pepper's

500
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: Lonely Hearts Club Band of one of the most gorgeous

501
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: and probably most popular songs on that record, A Day

502
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: in the Life, has the lyric he blew his mind

503
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: out in a car he didn't notice that the lights

504
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: had changed, and also that, you know, people point to

505
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 2: that as being a reference to Paul his death. And

506
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: then in Strawberry Fields Forever, there is a what's known

507
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: as a backwards mask, which we've talked about quite a

508
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 2: bit on the show. In that most recent episode we

509
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 2: did about satanic panics in Italy. I think we talked

510
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: about a led Zeppelin back mask. But in the song

511
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: Strawberry Fields, there's a part where when you flip it backwards,

512
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 2: it sounds like John Lennon saying I buried Paul. He

513
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: actually would would correct the record on this and say

514
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: I was saying Cranberry sauce. I'll let you be the judge.

515
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's play this. We can't play too many Beatles

516
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: clips without getting into a crazy lawsuit, but we can

517
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: get away with this one.

518
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: Surely we can. Sure sounds like that to me. I

519
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: don't hear Cranberry sauce. What do you hear? Ben?

520
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is doesn't It's very much an audio roarshack.

521
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean by? And yeah, like

522
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: Gershak painting but.

523
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: For your ears or what do they call it? Baiter Mainhoff,

524
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: where like you expect to see something and then you'll

525
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: see it everywhere, or you think about a thing and

526
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: then you start to see it everywhere.

527
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: They're confirmation biaseds directly. Yeah, but you can see how

528
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: if someone already believes this they would they would see

529
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: more of these things as proof. And there are several

530
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: other details in there, including, for example, on the White album,

531
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: there's the claim that if you play the track Revolution

532
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: nine backwards, you'll hear the message turn me on dead Man,

533
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: turn me on dead Man, tear me on dead Man.

534
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: And in nineteen sixty nine, on October twelfth, a student

535
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: at Michigan University, a kid named Tom Zarski called a

536
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: Detroit radio host named Russ Gibb, and he wanted to

537
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: talk to us about the stories regarding Paul being dead.

538
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: GiB was dismissive of the rumors, but Zarski talked him

539
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: into playing Revolution nine backwards on air at w k

540
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: N R FM, and everyone who tuned in thought they

541
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: heard turn me on dead Man, turned me on dead Man,

542
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: and the phones rang off the hooks, and this brought

543
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: the conspiracy to national levels.

544
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: Isn't this the kid that had a bunch of other

545
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: theories about how?

546
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: Like?

547
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: What was this guy's story? I feel like there was

548
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: a part where in the research where he mentioned not

549
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: having the resources to play every Beatles record backwards to

550
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: find more hidden messages.

551
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: You'll also hear people say that it was just a

552
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: hoax that Zarski knowingly participated.

553
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: It, and Ben I misspoke. There's actually a different kid

554
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: that did that in the nineties who had some pretty

555
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: interesting theories about backwards masking in Beatles songs relating to

556
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: another conspiracy that we'll get into short ah.

557
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: Okay, I see. And then so this also goes into

558
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: the idea that you mentioned. Nola All l amend I think,

559
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: I do think the nickname for super producer Paul is

560
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: probably the best one we can have for today's episode

561
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: because in the glass Onion song, John says, well, here's

562
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: another clue for you all. The Walrus was Paul, and

563
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: the people who believe this started thinking, Okay, get this,

564
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: you have to walk with us here. So people who

565
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: believe this one started spreading rumors that walrus was actually

566
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: a Scandinavian word that meant death. That is factually inaccurate.

567
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: Is the nicest way for me to say it. The

568
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: word is actually derived from the old Norse rumshalver, which

569
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: means walrus, not death. So while there are all these

570
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: clues or purported clues about Paul McCartney secret death, the

571
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: biggest question would be how could someone get away with this.

572
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: How could they keep a secret if there is a

573
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: look alike? How could he live his entire life as

574
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: someone else without slipping up once?

575
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and make all the Sick Wings records too, you know,

576
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 2: I mean, come on.

577
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean they're records.

578
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? Have you heard Ram? That's

579
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: not considered Wings? But that record is fantastic. That is

580
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: a really really great record. I don't really care much

581
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: about the Wings stuff after that, but Ram is a classic,

582
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: my friend.

583
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: So this guy who was rumored to have replaced Paul McCartney,

584
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: where'd he come from? Billy Shears? We called him. His

585
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: full name's William Shears Campbell. He was the winner of

586
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty five Paul McCartney look alike competition.

587
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: That's right. He apparently was an orphan who hailed from

588
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: Edinburgh and it just so happened to my previous point, Ram.

589
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 2: He was also a pretty good good mimic in terms

590
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: of the type of songs that he could actually right himself,

591
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: and the way he sang and his mannerisms. So, yeah,

592
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: this is interesting detail here.

593
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, But the issue with it is that for people

594
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: who believe there is a body double, they believe there

595
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: are minuscule discrepancies differences between the actual Paul's face and

596
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: the impersonator or impostor's face. And you can find plenty

597
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: of plenty of blogs and forums wherein they describe what

598
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: they see is the multiple provable differences between the real

599
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney and the man they call fall Faul fake Paul.

600
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: That's great. And there's another interesting detail here too. It

601
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: was right around this time November of nineteen sixty six

602
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: when supposedly this impost stepped in. That's when the Beatles stopped.

603
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: They were never really much of a touring band. They

604
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: played these handful of big, giant stadium shows around the world,

605
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: but not in the sense that we know today in

606
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: terms of bands that just grind it out on the

607
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: road for a month at a time. They were not

608
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: that kind of band, and they just stopped entirely to

609
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 2: focus on their recorded output. And you know, some conspiracy

610
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: minded types. My point to the idea that it's a

611
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: lot easier to hide these kinds of things if you're

612
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 2: not constantly out in the public eye and you can

613
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: control your image and the output of photographs and liner

614
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 2: notes and what have you.

615
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: Right, that's a valid point for sure. And this this theory,

616
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: of course, is also one of the oldest ones about

617
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: the Beatles. You can trace it back to nineteen sixty

618
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: nine when a guy named Tim Harper, who was the

619
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: editor of a student newspaper Drake University, published an article

620
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: called is Beatle Paul McCartney Dead? And then you know,

621
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: later in that year it gets the Nash coverage because

622
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: it's on the radio. It takes off like gangbusters, and

623
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: people still believe it to some degree today, as you

624
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: might imagine, as you might imagine the Paul McCartney or

625
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: fake Paul McCartney, whichever you choose. Folks was asked about

626
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: this before and he said that.

627
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: He met He said something jovial and delightful, didn't.

628
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: He He was pretty he was. He was surprisingly diplomatic.

629
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: He said, well, you know, I haven't been in the

630
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 1: public eye. I took some time off, so maybe that's

631
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: why people thought I was dead. And then you know,

632
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: there's that question of like, when you're at that level

633
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: of fame and prominence, do people treat it like you're

634
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: dead when you decide not to be on the front

635
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: of magazines and these covers. If anything, you know, hopefully

636
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: he looks at it as a flattering thing. I'm not sure.

637
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how to take it. What would you

638
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: do if you were accused of being your own body double.

639
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be tough man. I haven't accused of this though. Actually,

640
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: someone on one of the forums mentioned that on this

641
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: show I sound really serious, and on our other show,

642
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 2: Ridiculous History, I sound much more upbeat. And is it

643
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: possible that I have some sort of clones or double

644
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 2: action going on?

645
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: Saw that I imagined you'd be pretty delighted by it. I

646
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: thought your answer was diplomatic.

647
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: It was, you know, I try. I can't claim to

648
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: be as a diplomatic as Sir Paul McCartney. But speaking of,

649
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: let's talk about a couple of more image related clues

650
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: to this particular one on the cover of Sergeant Peper's

651
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: Lonely Hearts Club Band, which is just chock full of

652
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 2: references and things and different characters from history, like I

653
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: believe Karl Marx is on there. Also, all four Beatles

654
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: are shown wearing band uniforms and gathered around this giant

655
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: bass drum, and Paul has his right hand over his head,

656
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: and this has been interpreted to represent an Eastern symbol

657
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: that means death. And he also has a black clarinet

658
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: while the other guys in the band have golden brass

659
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: type instruments.

660
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: And there's something with his dominant hand as it's pictured

661
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: in the art right in.

662
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 2: Terms of which one he's using to hold the clarinet. Right, Yeah, interesting, Okay,

663
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: So there's there's actually a website called turn me on

664
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 2: deadman dot com and has a whole page devoted to

665
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: some of these Paula's Dead theories, and one of them

666
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: involves taking a mirror and holding it up to the

667
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: center of that Sergeant Pepper bass drum, at which point

668
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: it says I ONYX he die, which would be I

669
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: one nine he die, which also has an embedded reference

670
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: to eleven nine November ninth, nineteen sixty six, which is

671
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: when supposedly he had this fatal car crash.

672
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: So is this a is this surreptitious communication? And if so,

673
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: why and how if they want to keep it a secret,

674
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: that's the question. This going back to what Paul McCartney

675
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: said himself or his double said, he seems to have

676
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: been kind of a sport about it. In nineteen ninety three,

677
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: he gave a nod to this conspiracy theory in his

678
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: album do you Know the Name of It?

679
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: It was Paul is Live.

680
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 1: Yes, it is Paul is Live. And despite that, the

681
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: fury continues today as recently as just two thousand and nine,

682
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: even in Wired magazine, in the Italian version of the publication,

683
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: there was a study done by two forensic scientists who

684
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: used computer technology to compare the measurements of McCartney's skull

685
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: before and after the car accident. They took on the

686
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: project because they wanted to prove that the Paul is

687
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: Dead thing at no basis. But what they claim to

688
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: discover is that the point where the nose detaches from

689
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 1: the face is different in both skulls, and the position

690
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: of the years is different in a way that cannot

691
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: be explained by surgery, and the shape of the palette

692
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: is also different. So their story is that they went

693
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: in to disprove it and they came out going, oh

694
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: but an Italian.

695
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 2: And I think at this point we can even move

696
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: on to a slightly related one, that a very strange

697
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 2: one that implies that every single beetle was in fact

698
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: a double.

699
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: A double or fixtional.

700
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: Well, there's two there's one that says they were a

701
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 2: series of humans that were actors that were hired to

702
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: play them so they could like maximize their you know,

703
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 2: grind time with all the different you know, responsibilities they

704
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: would have being a giant band like that. So that's one,

705
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 2: and I don't know, we don't have to even go

706
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: into that one too dp, but that is one that's

707
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: floating out there, the idea of a boy band sort

708
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: of manufactured, like the Monkeys and things like that. The

709
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 2: Beatles would have been the ones that kind of set

710
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 2: that trend off. But this is the idea that they were,

711
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: in fact all played by different actors.

712
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: Is this the one that says the Beatles were created

713
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: by the Illuminati.

714
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 2: Well, it's a different one, but it's related. This is it.

715
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: That's all I've got for that one. It's just I mean,

716
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 2: it's really there's really not much to it. Yeah, here

717
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: we go. So there's a guy named Chris Fischell, this

718
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: is coming from a great Huffington Post article, who was

719
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 2: looking into the idea McCartney had died, and in his

720
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: research decided that in fact, every other Beatle had died

721
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: except possibly Paul, and that there were tons of clues

722
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: hidden in all of these record covers dating far back

723
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: as nineteen sixty three, where Ringo's face on their sixty

724
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: three record is not in line with the rest of them.

725
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: And then in sixty four you've got a Hard Day's

726
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: Night where George has his back to the camera and

727
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: is holding a cigarette. This is all super stretchy to me.

728
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: And then on Revolver we've got supposedly the second John

729
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 2: Lennon singing the line I'm only sleeping sleep being a

730
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: metaphor for death. And then we've got the Buried Paul

731
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: thing in sixty seven. And you know, this guy goes

732
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 2: into about two dozen or so pieces of evidence and

733
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: decides that this is the one I was talking about earlier.

734
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 2: He says he just didn't have the resources necessary to

735
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 2: listen to every single song backwards. I guess he didn't

736
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: have a computer yet, right, But that's it, Yeah, that's

737
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 2: it. And then it goes on because there's another one saying

738
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 2: that the Beatles had been played by different actors, every

739
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 2: single one of them. And there's a list just like

740
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: you said with Paul, for every Beatle, showing that there

741
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 2: are different facial dissimilarities through various periods in their career.

742
00:41:54,640 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting because that is not as implausible principle

743
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: a theory as we might initially think. It's not. I

744
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: don't think it's particularly a secret, but it's probably an

745
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: open secret. We can go ahead and say this something

746
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: similar has occurred in the past and entertainment culture, and

747
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: I have one example of something that's going on. Now.

748
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: Have you heard this story about Morgan Freeman and voiceover?

749
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: I think we talked about this off air. Morgan Freeman

750
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 1: has an iconic voice and it'll lend it to anything

751
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: you hear him. Often, even when he's in any film,

752
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: he's just the narrator because he's that well known for this.

753
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: So you got an AMEX card commercial, Morgan'll do it right.

754
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: You got to break up with your girlfriend, Get Morgan

755
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: Freeman on the phone, soften the blow, schwalk away, giving

756
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: that voicemail message ten stars. Also, don't break up with

757
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: your significant other over the phone. You know what I mean?

758
00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: Not nice be an adult. But uh. But the strange

759
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 1: thing about Morrian Freeman, and that a lot of people

760
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: don't know, is that he has been getting so much

761
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: voice acting work and he is so well known and

762
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: so popular in the industry that his prices go up.

763
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: And if he doesn't have the time or the inclination,

764
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 1: or if you don't have the money to afford him,

765
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: he will recommend his secret voice. Double what there's a

766
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: guy who just does Morgan Freeman esque voices. So if

767
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: a mex can of Ford, he doesn't want to do it,

768
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: but he still wants a piece of the action. He'll say,

769
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: you know, well, you can't get me, but you can

770
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: get this guy who sounds like me.

771
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 2: And do you think that guy has to pay him

772
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: like a finder's fee or some sort give him a cut?

773
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: I bet he does. Surely he does.

774
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure he gets a cut. I don't know the

775
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: nature of the relationships.

776
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 2: Had to license that voice. And that's a very weird arrangement, bet,

777
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 2: And what.

778
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: An interesting interesting thing. So and then dictators often use

779
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: body doubles. Saddam right, Saddam, Stalin, Goaddaffi. The list goes on.

780
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: But Saddam in particular. I believe there was some forensic

781
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: expert that went through dozens and dozens of photographs of

782
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 2: Saddam Hussein and determined that they were at least I

783
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 2: want to say six in play.

784
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: Well there were several. Yeah, I think a couple of

785
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: them died too. But we say all that to say

786
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility

787
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: that someone could have a body double in the entertainment industry.

788
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: What differentiates this theory is the idea that it would

789
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: be so prolific and so successful. I mean, I wonder, frankly,

790
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: I wonder if it happens with K pop, which is

791
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: another huge industry. But not every Beatle as we know,

792
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: ended up being one of the Fab four. Pete Best

793
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: got kicked out. There's also this conspiracy theory that says

794
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 1: the Beatles tried themselves to kill Pete Best. And these

795
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: are just these are just some of the beginnings. We

796
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 1: have some more to explore, but maybe let's give that

797
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: some room to breathe. We'll be back after a word

798
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's one of the darker ones, the

799
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: John Lenning cover up. We mentioned earlier that he was

800
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: shot on December eighth, nineteen eighty in Manhattan by a

801
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: fellow named Mark David Chapman.

802
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: And it's weird because he was simultaneously a crazed fan.

803
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: He's been described that way many times. But he also

804
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: had some real problems with Lenin, specifically with his atheism,

805
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: because Chapman himself was a Christian and he did not

806
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: appreciate John Lennin kind of spreading this notion that you

807
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: know that Christianity, you know, it would never go so

808
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: far as to say that it's stupid, but he just

809
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 2: did not think it was important.

810
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: That you the notion that you do not need a

811
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: God or the threat of divine punishment to be a

812
00:45:54,560 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: decent person. Atheism essentially absolutely somewhere between spiritualism and atheism. Yeah,

813
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: So he he shot Lenin four times in the back.

814
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: I think he fired the gun five times, and then

815
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: he just sat down on a curb and started reading

816
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: The Catcher in the Rye, which he had brought with him.

817
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: When he was arrested, he asked for a statement. He

818
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: told police that the book The Catcher in the Rye

819
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: was his statement. This has got to be a real

820
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: terrible occurrence for JD. Salinger.

821
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: Well, this is a recurring thing, this idea that Catcher

822
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 2: in the Rye is somehow some sort of assassination trigger.

823
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: Because the gentleman who made an attempt on Ronald Reagan's life,

824
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: I believe was carrying a copy of it as well,

825
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 2: And it's been talked about as an interesting you know,

826
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: if anybody hasn't read it. It's told from the perspective

827
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: of a young dude who was very kind of antisocial

828
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 2: and telling the story from the confines of a psychiatric institution,

829
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: and it of normalizes that kind of outsider mentality, you know,

830
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 2: the kind of lone wolf no one. He doesn't kill

831
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 2: anybody in the book spoiler alert, but he talks about

832
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: things along those lines.

833
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: And there's a there's a huge, a huge thematic thread

834
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: going through this story in which Holden Callfield, the protagonist,

835
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: or at least the main character, wrestles with the concept

836
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: of what is real and what is fake, who is phony,

837
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: who is sincere? And yes, it has been alleged in

838
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: various conspiracy theories that Kettrin the Rye was used as

839
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: a psychological trigger by intelligence agencies. So in this theory,

840
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: John Lennon was not killed so much by Chapman himself.

841
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: He was more killed by remote control. The ideas that

842
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 1: Chapman was programmed by US government agents to kill Lenin,

843
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: and they use the novel as a signal to go

844
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 1: ahead with the operations. So either it was a subtle

845
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: signal to Chapman that other people wouldn't understand, or it

846
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: was a trigger that he was programmed, brainwashed essentially into following,

847
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: you know, like he sees this or here's a passage

848
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: read aloud and it triggers a certain set of actions.

849
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: This sounds just this sounds like if it were a

850
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: breakfast dish, it would be nuts and bananas. But it

851
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: is true that John Lennon, like other celebrities and musicians

852
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: and political activists, John Lennon was being monitored by US

853
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: intelligence agencies to some degree. All this theory does is

854
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 1: go further. We should also mention that Mark David Chapman,

855
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: at the time of this recording is alive and well.

856
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: He just had a parole hearing earlier this year. He

857
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: was denied parole because the prole board wrote back to

858
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: him and said, you admittedly carefully planned and executed the

859
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: murder of a world famous person for no reason other

860
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: than to gain notoriety. While no person's life is any

861
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: more valuable than another's life, the fact that you chose

862
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: someone who is not only a world renowned person and

863
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: beloved by millions, regardless of pain and suffering you would

864
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: cause to his family, friends, and many others. You demonstrated

865
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: a callous disregard for the sanctity of human life and

866
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: the pain and suffering of others. Not the most well

867
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: written sentence, but you get what they're saying. You know

868
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: what I mean.

869
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: It has a bit of a run on, wasn't it was?

870
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: It was they were trying to squeeze in a lot

871
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: of stuff there.

872
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: But does it mayby sound like too that they're really

873
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 2: pushing the onus of this act really hard on him,

874
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: saying for no reason, considering that this mk ultra esque

875
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 2: type conditioning was perhaps in play. And then you know,

876
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: and knowing what we know, maybe Ben talk a little

877
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: bit more about why Lenin was being monitored. Lenin himself

878
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 2: was being monitored by the government the same way that

879
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: they would keep tabs on someone like Martin Luther King.

880
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, so the concern here we have to look back.

881
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: It's nineteen eighty, the Cold Wars in full swing. Domino

882
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 1: theory of ideology is also it's not something that got

883
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: left behind in Vietnam. You know. The idea here is

884
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: that leftist activists who have a public platform could sway

885
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: the US voter or the world stage that it was

886
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 1: a big concern of the powers that be at the time.

887
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: But the question then becomes one of technology involved. Has

888
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: the US ever successfully managed to make an individual do

889
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: something they would not normally do unconsciously, you know what

890
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: I mean? Like sir Han Sirhan claims that he was

891
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: a mentoring candidate as well. But then the second question

892
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: goes to.

893
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: Motivation.

894
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: Had had John Lennon done something specific that would have

895
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: been the straw on the proverbial camel's back. Had he

896
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: done something that made someone in a shadowy room in

897
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: DC or in Langley go, he's gone too far? Send

898
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 1: the book, you know what I mean?

899
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know, like when you asked this

900
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: question about like have we really seen evidence that that

901
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: this is even possible? And this might sound utterly ridiculous,

902
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 2: but I'm going to put it out there. I have seen,

903
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 2: you know, and you may have two successful hypnosis you know,

904
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: And I know a lot of times it's like people

905
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: certain people are more susceptible to it. But you know,

906
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 2: I went to like a Renaissance fair here in Atlanta,

907
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: and I don't know, I'm pretty skeptical about this stuff,

908
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: but I saw some people who I saw walking around

909
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: earlier at the festival and who were called up or

910
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: volunteered to go up on stage and were hypnotized super

911
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 2: quickly and made to do things that they wouldn't normally do,

912
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: like cluck like a chicken, or you know, walk around.

913
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 2: Who's to say you couldn't take that to the next

914
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 2: level and trigger somebody with a word to make them,

915
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 2: you know, really do something they wouldn't do, like kill

916
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 2: a Man's interesting.

917
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: Well, it goes into not just severity of action or

918
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: extremity of action, but also a severity of time or

919
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: distance from suggestion to action. It's something I would I've

920
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: often called this the chloroform question. So you know how

921
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 1: chloroform We all know this. Chloroform in fiction is depicted

922
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 1: as something that you it's put dows on a rag

923
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: and then you put it over someone's face, right their

924
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: mouth and their nose, and they pass out for some

925
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 1: amount of time. Real chloroform application, or the real usage

926
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: of it, is much different. You have to hold it

927
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: there longer, and it keeps people under only as long

928
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: really as it's on them. They'll wake up shortly thereafter

929
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: and real hypnosis. We know it can have these short

930
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: term effects. People cluck like a chicken. They will do

931
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: acts that they might not normally do, but we don't

932
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: know if it can force them to do things that

933
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 1: we would considered depraved, like murder or you know, cannibalism.

934
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: Maybe you could get somebody to light a fire if

935
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: they were if they disassociated it from human harm. But

936
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: the big question is can we make some sort of

937
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: suggestion that will stay for months or years. That's the

938
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: big question, right, Can the Renaissance fair hypnotist make someone

939
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: cluck like a chicken in twenty twenty.

940
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 2: And then recall it with yes, now I understand, I understand,

941
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 2: but it's still it's interesting to see that happen in

942
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 2: real time. The potentials there, The potential seems to be there,

943
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: but you know, like we say, the human mind is

944
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: even less understood than you know, what we understand about space.

945
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 2: So he did.

946
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 1: Chapman did apologize for being such an idiot and choosing

947
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: the wrong way for glory to Yoko Ono after he

948
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: shot her husband, and then choosing the what choosing the

949
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: wrong way for glory, So.

950
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: He almost admitted that he did it for like a

951
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: notoriety in some way.

952
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: Right, he is eligible for parole in twenty twenty. Unlike

953
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: Sirhan Sirhan he has not made ardent, consistent claims that

954
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: he was brainwashed by any intelligence agency. But that that's

955
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,720
Speaker 1: where we leave it. And it's the thing that makes

956
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: this one so tantalizing is that we know, we know,

957
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: years and decades later, that the intelligence agencies of the US,

958
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: at the very least did actively monitor people they considered

959
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: to be dangerous political activists, and they also actively harassed them.

960
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: Like you said earlier with doctor King, they really did that,

961
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: right Cohen, telpro was a real thing. The question is

962
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: just how far it went. And if you want to

963
00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: read more about this, check out John Potash's book Drugs

964
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: Is Weapons against Us, which says that these agencies did

965
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: not just target John Lennon, but they also targeted Tupac

966
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: Shakur and Kirk Cobain and many other celebrities. But here's

967
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: here's a question of what if there's something bigger than

968
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: intelligence agencies at work. What if it's bigger than the CIA,

969
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: What if it's bigger than the FBI, What if it's

970
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 1: the Illuminati?

971
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 2: The illuminati the very same. Oh wow, okay, and within

972
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 2: that we have some subsets, don't we sure this idea

973
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 2: of the illuminati. We have two in particular that we're

974
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: talking about. One that's a research wing of the UK

975
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 2: that supposedly receives government funding from the United States, and

976
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 2: that was very particularly tied to MK Ultra we talked

977
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: about a little while ago, which is something called the

978
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 2: Tavistock Institute for Human Relations.

979
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: Yes, the Tavistike is.

980
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 2: In addition to the Committee of three hundred. First off,

981
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 2: let's talk a little bit about the Tavistock Institute. They

982
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 2: are essentially a nonprofit, at least on the surface that

983
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 2: a British based nonprofit that has done kind of a

984
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 2: think tank, I guess you could call it, that has

985
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 2: done research on how to solve societal problems.

986
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: Quote, helping organizations, groups and individuals to learn, change, innovate

987
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: and develop. How much more vague could you be. They

988
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 1: were started back in forty seven, right.

989
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 2: That's right, and they have since their inception been intimately

990
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 2: tied to the field of psychiatry. And again they were

991
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 2: connected to the mk ulture experiment as we talked about earlier,

992
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: which if we didn't go too deep into it. Surely

993
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: you guys know what this is. We've done episodes on

994
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 2: in the past. But it is that Manchurian candidate kind

995
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: of research that was ruled to be not cool, you know,

996
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 2: by the US government, the idea of turning people into

997
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,240
Speaker 2: secret sleeper soldiers, among other things.

998
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they are commonly associated with the Beatles and

999
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones. You can find a couple of books

1000
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: focusing on this, one by Daniel Eastland called Tavistock Institute,

1001
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: Social Engineering and the Masses. That's the more recent one.

1002
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: It came out in twenty fifteen. But the concept here

1003
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: is that there's a totalitarian agenda which ultimately will result

1004
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: in the Illuminati taking over America with the intent of

1005
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: utterly destroying it through rock music and drugs to rebel

1006
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: against the status quo, undermine the family unit, dogs and

1007
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: cats sleeping together, people barefoot in the streets and wearing

1008
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: shoes in their houses.

1009
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: Well, it reminds me of that episode we did a

1010
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 2: while back about did the CIA manufacture of the counterculture?

1011
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 2: A very similar end, you know, in theory would be

1012
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 2: to cause the breakdown of civilized society in some way

1013
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: or to demonize a particular group, which is I think

1014
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 2: more of what the CIA theory was about, but this

1015
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 2: one is much more watched the world burn type stuff,

1016
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: hasn't it been?

1017
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. No, there's the idea is that the

1018
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: Beatles were created purposefully with intent by the Illuminati or

1019
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: these various subsidiaries to introduce counterculture, to introduce drugs. And

1020
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: this part is something larger, called the Aquarium conspiracy by

1021
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: its opponent. So it was started by a guy named

1022
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: John Coleman as recently as the nineteen nineties. He used

1023
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: to work for MI six and that gave him some

1024
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 1: street crad with people. He said that the Tavistock Institute

1025
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: for Human Relations was instrumental in creating this band, and

1026
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: they do. Some of his claims rest on the similar

1027
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: idea of subtle visual or audible clues, like he says

1028
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: there's a promo picture from the Yellow Submarine that shows

1029
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: John Lennon flash the Devil's Horn sign associated with this

1030
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 1: mysterious group, and that Paul is making the six six

1031
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: six or I of Horace hand signed or as I

1032
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: like to refer.

1033
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: To it, the a ok emoji hand.

1034
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: Is that what it is?

1035
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of I mean, it's just like putting your

1036
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 2: finger and your thumb together in a circle and holding

1037
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 2: out your other three fingers. But you know, if you

1038
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 2: if you draw a line through that that oh that

1039
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 2: you're making, and then the remaining three fingers, you get

1040
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 2: three sixes. But it's also it's literally you know, that's.

1041
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: What the six six.

1042
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: But it's also literally you know, an emoji for and

1043
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 2: it just means cool. Everything is a ok.

1044
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: You know, well in some places it means butthole.

1045
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 2: That's fair.

1046
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: That's that's I think that's unfair to tourists who don't

1047
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: know that way the traveling.

1048
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 2: There was another conspiracy theory or you know, kind of

1049
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 2: an alarmist thing that was making the round power. Well

1050
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 2: wasn't why power. I think it was like the teenagers

1051
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 2: were using that symbol in pictures and it showed that

1052
00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 2: they were what the kids called DTF down to.

1053
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, there's also one of the one of the

1054
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: pieces of evidence for the Illuminati idea is that the

1055
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: cover of Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band also includes

1056
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: a host of quote Illuminati stooges such as Alvis Huxley,

1057
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: Karl Marx, HG. Wells and playwright George Bernard Shaw.

1058
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: That's right, Shaw was in it too.

1059
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, a known Illuminati stooge. I just love it

1060
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 1: when people are called stooges or tycoons. We do have

1061
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: something else, and one more tad on the pile here,

1062
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: and that's the idea that the Beatles did not release

1063
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: all their songs. Did you ever hear this?

1064
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? This one's pretty pretty debunkable, but it's one of

1065
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: those ones that I think rabid fans were so jazzed

1066
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 2: about the idea of they just wanted to let it ride.

1067
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 2: But what's the backstory?

1068
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it goes back to nineteen seventy one. There's a

1069
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: British teenager named Martin Lewis and he sends bootleg Beatles

1070
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: recording to a magazine and he includes extra track names

1071
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: on the bootleg songs like Colliding Circles, left is Right

1072
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: and Right is Wrong, deck Chair and pink Litmus paper

1073
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: Shirt and claim they have been hidden away in the

1074
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: Apple Records vault. The thing is, of course people thought

1075
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: this is amazing. They wanted to hear these new songs.

1076
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: But the thing is that later Lewis confesses and says

1077
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,439
Speaker 1: the whole thing is a hoax, and like you said, Noel,

1078
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 1: people don't believe him. He even explained it in an

1079
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 1: interview with USA Today when he said, to my shock

1080
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: and horror, many Beatles fans refused to believe me. People

1081
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: told me your confession is a hoax. I know someone

1082
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 1: who's got those songs. And so he says, I'm letting

1083
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: the cat out of the bag again. There are no

1084
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: hidden songs, which is where we begin to wrap up

1085
01:01:55,480 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: the show today, folks, because for some of these theories

1086
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: that we've described, some more plausible than others. There are

1087
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: always going to be people who say, if you are

1088
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 1: attempting to disprove what I believe, then that means you

1089
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: are part of the vast Beatles conspiracy. But what do

1090
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: you think? No, what do you think? Do you think

1091
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: any of these could have some sand or a grain

1092
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: of truth? Do you think Paul McCartney died in the sixties.

1093
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I hope not. He seems like

1094
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 2: the same old Paul, you know.

1095
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: And also it's on balance we have to think of

1096
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: the ratio to be fair, if there's a body double,

1097
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: he spent more time now being Paul McCartney than Paul

1098
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: McCartney did when he was alive. Well, so you know,

1099
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: in terms of just time spent as Paul, who is

1100
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: more genuine. I know that makes me sound like a

1101
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: horrible person.

1102
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 2: Not at all, not at all.

1103
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: But we also want to hear from you, folks, fellow

1104
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: conspiracy realists, skeptics alike. Do you think that any of

1105
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: these claims have an amount of an amount of sand.

1106
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: One thing we did not talk about, which is a

1107
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: provable improven conspiracy, be corruption in the music industry and

1108
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: the ways in which artists back then and today were

1109
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 1: chosen sometimes to be successful through practices like payola, through

1110
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: practices like you know, suppressing one record label's output to

1111
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: play the records of another label. Hopefully that's something that

1112
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 1: we can we can explore in a future episode, but

1113
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: in the meantime, let us know what you think. You

1114
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram, you can find us on Twitter,

1115
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: you can find us on Facebook. On our various community pages,

1116
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: the one for this one is Here's where it gets crazy.

1117
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: Longtime listeners, you probably you hopefully heard Nol and Matt

1118
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: do an episode recently that was entirely composed of fascinating

1119
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: stuff from our community page right, nol.

1120
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a fun one. Those are always fun

1121
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 2: to do. And Ben, there was a very disc concerting

1122
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 2: Ben shaped abyss in the room with us at that time,

1123
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 2: but you yourself were not corporeally present, but we did

1124
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: commune with the abyss a couple of times.

1125
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:13,479
Speaker 1: Very kind. I am often described as a bend shaped abyss.

1126
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 2: Uh.

1127
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 3: So you can and that's the end of this classic episode.

1128
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 3: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

1129
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 3: you can get into contact with us in a number

1130
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 3: of different ways. One of the best is to give

1131
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 3: us a call. Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK.

1132
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 3: If you don't want to do that, you can send

1133
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 3: us a good old fashioned email.

1134
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:38,439
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1135
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

1136
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1137
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.