1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, or 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: wherever you are in the world, it is so great 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: to have you here, back for another episode where we 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: break down this Psychology of your twenties. Something that I 9 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: think a lot of us struggle with, deal with, have 10 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: on our minds is feeling kind of stagnant in the 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: moment that we're in and in our current life chapter 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: or life season, I guess, and that is something I've 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: personally been thinking about a lot. The further I get 14 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: into my twenties, the more I'm kind of hungering for 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: a life change, And I thought, why not bring on 16 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: one of my favorite podcasts. Is one of my favorite 17 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: people actually who has helped me and given me advice 18 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: even if she doesn't know it through her show, Love, 19 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: Happiness and Success, to share some of her wisdom with us. 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: So welcome Doctor Lisa, Marie Bobby, thank you for coming 21 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: on the show. 22 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: You are too kind and I'm flattered and honored that 23 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: you listen to the podcast, and it's so wonderful to 24 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: know that it's been helpful for you. I mean, that's fantastic. 25 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: That's why I make them so mission accomplished. 26 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's so interesting. I was saying to this 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: to you before. People always ask me, like, what do 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: you listen to, And I'm like, I listen to this show. 29 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: I listened to your show. I feel like it's so 30 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: interesting because I'm sure a lot of people listen to 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: this as their source of wisdom and their source of advice. 32 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: But I think also like the advice giver also needs, 33 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, the advice of others, and also needs like 34 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: the note about this as well. So thank you so 35 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: much for the work you do. You want to explain 36 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: a little bit more about who you are, your approach, 37 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: your maybe journey to where you are now. 38 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, happy too, so so yeah, Lisa, Marie Bobby Gosh, 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: my journey starting in my twenties trying to figure out 40 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 2: what the heck I was going to do in the world. 41 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: And I went through a period in my twenties where 42 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: I felt very lost and unclear as well. And actually 43 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: we could talk more about this. So my pivotal moment 44 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: in my twenties was nine to eleven, so the terrible 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: you know, terrorist attacks. My cousin actually was killed in 46 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: he worked at one of the World Traits enter buildings. 47 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: It was awful, But it was this crisis where I 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: was like, what am I doing with my life? And 49 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: it really led me to do a lot of personal 50 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 2: soul searching. And it was right after that that I 51 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: decided to go back to school to become a therapist, 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: which I began in my twenties. I since became a 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 2: marriage and family therapist and then did a doctoral degree, 54 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: became a licensed psychologist, pursued coaching as a career path, 55 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: which has been really exciting for me, and so I 56 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: founded a private practice it's called Growing Self Counseling and Coaching, 57 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: and we have you know, fifty plus therapists running around 58 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 2: here these days. And also started the Love, Happiness and 59 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 2: Success podcast kind of as a hobby because I love, 60 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: you know, talking about personal growth and self development and 61 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: one of the values that I connected with when I 62 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: was in my twenties related, you know, with everything that 63 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: I went through, realized how important it was for me 64 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: personally to be of service to other people. And so 65 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: that's why I started doing my podcast. It is to 66 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: like share things and advice and knowledge and put it 67 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: out into the world. And that I mean, so when 68 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: you were talking about the fact that you enjoy the 69 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: show and that you've benefited from it, like, that's why 70 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: I do this. And I can't tell you how happy 71 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: that just made me. 72 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: Here. Oh my goodness, well, I'm so glad that I could. 73 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know encouragement, but just to 74 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: share the love. I guess it's so nice when people 75 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: say that to me, so I'm sure that, yeah, it's 76 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: good to pass that on to everybody who you also 77 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: benefit from. I want to go back to that kind 78 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 1: of pivotal moment because I feel like that is firstly 79 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: so tragic. I'm so sorry that that happened, But I 80 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: think it's also something that a lot of people in 81 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: their twenties might relate to, having some major life change, 82 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: some maybe not a tragedy, but a major life event 83 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: that kind of puts them onto a completely different path. 84 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: And in other senses, it can also be so gradual, 85 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: right like this gradual loss of self, this gradual loss 86 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: of belonging this gradual sense of like, I just feel 87 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: really stuck in my life. So why do you think that? 88 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: Why do you think we get to those points where 89 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: we realize that we need to change. Is it just 90 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: because of those things, those kind of existential moments that 91 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: make us question a purpose or is there something deeper 92 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: or something more gradual that happens there? 93 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I'll tell you a secret actually that I 94 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: don't think has talked about enough in our culture, is 95 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: that the reason we all grow is not despite the 96 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: challenges and the hard times that we go through, it's 97 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 2: really because of them. I'm a big believer in that 98 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: we really kind of need to make contact with our 99 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: dark emotions and because that's like where a lot of 100 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: our inner wisdom really is. And it's only when you 101 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 2: go through something challenging. If it's a crisis like a 102 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: building blowing up in a terrorist attack, that would be 103 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 2: one example, but also there it really is a crisis. 104 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 2: When you get to this place in your life and 105 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 2: you're like, I don't know who I am or what 106 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: I want or what I'm doing. Like to really like 107 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: recognize that and sit with those feelings, it brings up 108 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 2: a lot of pain, and that too can be its 109 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 2: own kind of crisis that can catalyze a lot of 110 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: really important growth work and personal development. I think people 111 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 2: that are just kind of happy to be here and 112 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: bopping along and feeling good, they don't they don't get 113 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: to do that, they don't have a reason to do that. 114 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: And so I think the shift comes and really like 115 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 2: appreciating the hard times for what they are, which are 116 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 2: these fantastic opportunities that often go unrecognized. You know, we 117 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: try to make it go away rather than understanding them 118 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: for the guests they are. Does that make sense? 119 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: It makes so much sense. It reminds me of this 120 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: quote my mum always says to me, which is you 121 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: can either choose to be comfortable, you can choose to grow. 122 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: And so it's in those moments of yeah, in those 123 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: moments of the greatest discomfort, that we find ourselves changing 124 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: the most for the beta. But I still think that 125 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: it's really difficult when when you get to that point 126 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: and you're like, it's in interesting what you said. There 127 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: are some people who are happy to just kind of 128 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: go with the flow and happy to go along with 129 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: the status quo. I'm sure that the people listening to 130 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: this and perhaps not those people, and perhaps facing a 131 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: lot of confusion. How do you navigate that? How do 132 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: you navigate feeling simultaneously quite stuck and also wanting more 133 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: for yourself? Like, what are some of the steps to 134 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: move into that next chapter of your life when you 135 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: realize that perhaps you are unhappy. 136 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good question, and it's a multi 137 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: layered answer, because I want to be honest with you 138 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: and your listeners, and so to not give some trait 139 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: like thing that I mean, the truth really is that, 140 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: first of all, it requires a period of exploration in 141 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: order to understand what is at the core of the 142 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: happiness and dissatisfaction, and that in itself can be difficult 143 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: to wrap your arms around sometimes, you know, like the 144 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: sort of nebulous dissatisfaction that being able to get clarity 145 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: and articulate what it's attached to, and so like that's 146 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: one of the reasons why it can be helpful either 147 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: to talk to a therapist or also like just to 148 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: do some journaling is to get under your own hood 149 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: and like what is going on? Is it something that 150 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: I'm doing that I actually don't like that much? Is 151 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: it something that I'm not doing like I am. I 152 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: missing something that I wish was here. But that's really 153 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: the first chapter is just beginning to get clarity around 154 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: who you are, what you want, and like naming the 155 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 2: pain points. Once that's clear, then you can begin to 156 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: develop a vision of a life that had the changes 157 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: that we're in alignment with how you imagine you know 158 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: things would be for you to feel happier. But that 159 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: growth can also go in a different direction too, that 160 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 2: I'm happy to share more about if it would be helpful. 161 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: The other thing there are two pieces of this. One 162 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: piece is that sometimes the reason we feel dissatisfied is 163 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: that we're living a life that is not really in 164 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 2: alignment with who we are, what our values are, what 165 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 2: we want, and it's important to understand that so that 166 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 2: you can make a plan to change your life circumstances 167 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: so that it's more congruent with who you are and 168 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: what you really want. That's kind of door number one. 169 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 2: The other thing that is also true is that many 170 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: times it's not our life circumstances at all that are 171 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: leading to our feeling unhappy or dissatisfied. It's more about 172 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 2: how we are functioning on the inside. So that if 173 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: we don't do that internal work, it doesn't matter how 174 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 2: differently your life changes in terms of the day to day, 175 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: because you're still going to feel the same way you 176 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: do right now. 177 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: I honestly really relate to that. I feel like I've 178 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: had points where I've felt that if I just changed 179 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: something about my circumstances, everything else will fall into place. 180 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: I moved to Sydney with that belief where I was like, 181 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: all Right, the source of all my problems is this 182 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: town that I'm living in, and if I just change 183 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: my environment, I'm going to change everything else that comes 184 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: with it. And you realize that your problems do change, 185 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: do not leave you if you think that you're leaving 186 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: them behind, like they are so much more internal than 187 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: they are external. Can you explain that a little bit 188 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: more in terms of like how to manage that? Because 189 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: I feel like the first option there to realize that 190 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: you're dissatisfied because it doesn't match the vision of your life, 191 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: engage in some of that exploration and find something perhaps 192 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: more purposeful that, although it is still difficult, feels like 193 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: the simpler path. Yeah, But that second path of being like, 194 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: actually there is something internally that is making you realize 195 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: that you are dissatisfied and unfulfilled and creating all of 196 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: these other, like secondary mental consequences. That sounds like such amaze. 197 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it absolutely is. And it's so easy for all 198 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: of us to get tricked into believing that, you know, 199 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: I'll be happy when I have a different career, I 200 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: live in a different place, or I'll be it a relationship, 201 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: or you know, meet some health goal. Right, And this 202 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: was actually researched pretty extensively Martin Seligman. He was a 203 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: past president of APA and he's the one of the 204 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 2: thought leaders around the school of psychology called positive psychology, 205 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 2: and he identified this a long time ago, and he 206 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 2: called it the hedonic treadmill. And so what it is 207 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: is this belief that you know, we all pursue these 208 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: goals or these changes or these circumstances, getting the career 209 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: or the house or a new car or whatever, and 210 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 2: then arrive at whatever, you know, the top of that 211 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: mountain was, and discover that we feel pretty much the 212 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 2: same way that we did before we achieved whatever those 213 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: goals were. And now it's absolutely valuable to design a 214 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 2: life that you want to live in, right, And pursue 215 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 2: circumstances and life experiences that you feel good about. Nobody's 216 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: mad at that. But the work that we're talking about 217 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: now is really getting under the hood to understand why 218 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: your sort of emotional thermostat is set at this kind 219 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: of constant level. No matter what. That work requires understanding 220 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,119 Speaker 2: a number of different things. How you're talking to yourself 221 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 2: has a lot to do with it, Like the kind 222 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 2: of relationship that you're having with yourself, your inner dialogue 223 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: can be a big piece of that. Also, I think 224 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 2: managing your expectations for who you are and like what 225 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: life is supposed to feel like is a big piece 226 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 2: of that. And I think, you know, especially on the 227 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: theme of your podcast, I mean the psychology of your twenties. 228 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: I think that a lot of us and I certainly 229 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 2: had this when I was in my twenties, have these 230 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: ideas about the way things are supposed to be or 231 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: like how other people feel like happier better than I do. 232 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 2: And I think it takes a while to arrive at 233 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 2: the fact that a lot of life is pretty you know, 234 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: we have ups and downs, and to feel kind of 235 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: average or neutral a lot of the time is actually 236 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: normal and when people are thinking that they should be 237 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: feeling differently than life is. Actually life can make them 238 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: worry that something is wrong. You see this with people 239 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: in long term relationships or dating, or you know, in 240 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 2: a career. And I think there's a lot of actually 241 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 2: long term satisfaction and inner piece that comes from embracing 242 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: the fact that all of life is kind of a 243 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: mixed bag, and that peak experiences can happen and we 244 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 2: can have moments of joy, but a lot of life 245 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: is just fairly neutral. So then the work becomes how 246 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 2: to find gratitude and meeting and appreciation and satisfaction in 247 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,359 Speaker 2: the things that are really pretty ordinary, because the anxiety 248 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: that like something is wrong is one of the things 249 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 2: that will reliably make you feel dissatisfied no matter what. 250 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And that social comparison as well, I guess 251 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: like I think that is the biggest thefe of joy 252 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: of people in our twenties, and I hear it all 253 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: the time. We have this constant source of comparison being 254 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: social media, where I can look online and see someone's 255 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: impeccable highlight reel of all of the best moments of 256 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: their life and the blanks those days that they don't 257 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: feel great and not filled in, and sometimes I know 258 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: that I'm guilty of doing this as well. Like I 259 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: was telling you, I've been quite ill these last few weeks. 260 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: There's nothing really going on in my camera role or 261 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: my life right now. Like I'm not going to big events. 262 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm not celebrating career milestones. I'm not partying or anything 263 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: like that. I'm just in like a bit of a 264 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: rut stage, like a bit of a flag stage, and 265 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: I'm not posting about that online. I'm not giving people 266 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: the candid side of things. And I think that that 267 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: is so spot on what you just said, of looking 268 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: of that false belief that everyone else is happier than us, 269 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: that something should be a certain way is really rubbing 270 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: us avout ability to be deeply satisfied in what we have. 271 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree, because you know, there's so 272 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: much image management and the things that go out into 273 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: the world versus the reality of what day to day 274 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: life is actually like and how you know, just maddening 275 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: and frustrating. It could be some example, right if you 276 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: look at my social media stuff, there's reels and like 277 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: the business and the podcast giving people advice, like I 278 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: know what I'm doing, and just this morning trying to 279 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: order pizzas online. I have people coming over later today 280 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: for Halloween. Couldn't find my bank card anywhere. And then 281 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: when I did try to use the bank card, it's like, 282 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: you know, I had to move money to the debit account. 283 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: It's like just all these tiny little frustrations. And then 284 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 2: like I hadn't put the laundry away, so I couldn't 285 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: find the sweater that I wanted to wear. It's just 286 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: one thing after another, right, and these are all like 287 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 2: little minor irritations. But I was like that, and none 288 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: of that goes out into the world. And so even 289 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: for me, like I've been working on this stuff for 290 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: twenty years, and I'm thinking, why am I getting so 291 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: stressed out about all this stuff? And like my house 292 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 2: is a wreck, I can't find anything, and just blah 293 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah, and really like feeling so annoyed, 294 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: and then had to like talk myself down, use all 295 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 2: these skills, like shift my thoughts to a better feeling 296 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: place so that I could go into work, you know, 297 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: and have a reasonably nice day. But it's so easy 298 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 2: to go down that rabbit hole of like what is 299 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: wrong with me? And especially when it comes to relationships. 300 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Like I can't tell you how many 301 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: clients I've worked with that you know, they've they've been single, 302 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 2: they want to partner, They get into a relationship, you know, 303 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: they meet a nice person who is annoying and disappointing 304 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 2: in their own ways, and just like this, You know, 305 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 2: everybody's a mixed bag like this is. You're gonna have 306 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: some of these experiences in every relationship, but there's some 307 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: you know, perfectionistic ideal in their mind that makes them 308 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: feel so badly about the relationship or the life that 309 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: they have. It's hard. 310 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: Oh I can imagine that so hard. It's something I've 311 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: actually encountered where I've I'm in a long term relationship now, 312 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: but when we first started dating, I was like, why 313 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: does this feel boring? Like this? And it felt so 314 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: safe that I was like, this feels boring. Everyone's told 315 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: me that there needs to be this like insane intimacy 316 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: and passion and chemistry chemistry, and I was like yeah, 317 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: And I was like, there is chemistry and there's compatibility, 318 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: but this person is not like making me run on 319 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: a treadmill for their affection. That's what I feel like 320 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: is exciting. I feel like I've gone off on a 321 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: tangent because I'm just like lapping up your words here. 322 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: But it's probably my fault. 323 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: I know. 324 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 2: I love for going off on random tangents. So welcome 325 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: to my world. 326 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: So am I. I feel like that we're matchma in heaven. 327 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: But I feel like to bring it back to that 328 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: idea of starting that next chapter in your life, perhaps 329 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: that first the first way to do that is to 330 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: appreciate or to gain a more realistic view of what 331 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: life actually is. And that's not to say that life 332 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: isn't going to be full of surprises and full of 333 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: excitement and full of amazing moments, but that that is 334 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 1: not going to be happening all of the time. Like 335 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: changing something external about your life isn't going to suddenly 336 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: remove what is the deepest satisfaction from self comparison or 337 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: social comparison, or from unrealistic expectations about how you should 338 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: be feeling on a day to day. So I feel 339 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 1: like that's our first collective tip on moving toward the 340 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: next chapter. 341 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: Well, and even to add to that is to end 342 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: that work of wanting a new chapter to get under 343 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 2: our hood of doing some journaling, talking to a counselor 344 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: or a coach around what are my themes? What have 345 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 2: been the patterns and the repeating experiences that I've had 346 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 2: in all of these different chapters that I've had so far, 347 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: because that can give you insight into some of those 348 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: inner changes that we need to make in order to 349 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: have an actually different experience in the next chapter that 350 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 2: we want to create. 351 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: What are some of those themes, because I'm trying to 352 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: think of some in my own life that I'm getting stuck. 353 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well, I mean themes could include feeling persistently 354 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: dissatisfied in relationships and having this grass is Greener thing 355 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 2: going on, you know, no matter who you're with, And 356 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 2: so the patterns would be ending relationships with perfectly nice 357 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: people because you don't feel the chemistry or you're not 358 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 2: having like this next level experience that you think that 359 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: you're going to have, changing jobs or moving like I 360 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 2: think when you've cycled through what you were talking about, 361 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: like moving to Sydney, and like, I've made all these 362 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 2: changes and why do I still feel the same way? 363 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: You know? 364 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 2: That can help give insight into what's really going on. 365 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 2: Let's see what would be examples of other themes, you know, 366 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 2: the day to day things that stress you out, like 367 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 2: your kind of how do I usually feel on the inside. 368 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: If you can quantify those and articulate them, that helps 369 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 2: you understand what the next chapter could really involve. That 370 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 2: would be a substantial change. So, like an example in 371 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 2: my own life, as you may have inferred from the 372 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 2: previous story about not being able to find the debit 373 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: card and the laundry still isn't put away. 374 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: But I. 375 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 2: Am a lifelong individual of who has an ADHD. I 376 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 2: didn't know that when I was younger, in my twenties. 377 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 2: I had no idea that that's part of what was 378 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: going on for me. And being able was in my 379 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: thirties actually like finally connecting those dots. But I had 380 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: to go through a period of time where all of 381 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 2: these different chapters of my life, the common theme was 382 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 2: feeling disorganized, feeling kind of chaotic, feeling like, you know, 383 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 2: not really showing up in the way that I wanted to. 384 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 2: And so it was really funny, Okay, what's the common 385 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 2: theme here? Wasn't It wasn't the environment. What's happening in 386 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: terms of my practices and ways of being that's contributing 387 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 2: to me having these experiences over and over and over again, 388 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 2: and obviously still a work in progress, but like being 389 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 2: able to identify the kinds of systems or practices that 390 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 2: can help us be more of what we want to 391 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: be and how feel more of how we want to 392 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 2: feel is really the long term solution when it comes 393 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: to designing that new chapter that's based on the outcomes 394 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 2: you want to have. 395 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: That makes so much sense. I also feel like i've 396 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: I'm really sitting here being like, oh, I need to 397 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: probably identify my themes because that one of moving is 398 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: incredibly relevant to me. Like any yeah, I always get this. 399 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: I feel like it's interesting. I came into this really 400 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: wanting to talk to you about this, you know, starting 401 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: this new chapter in life, because I was like, ah, 402 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: I'm considering moving, and then you said what are the themes? 403 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, ah, every time I start to 404 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: feel a little bit stagnant or bored, I immediately am like, 405 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: you know what's gonna make me feel better? Move a move. 406 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, because nothing is more exciting in life, more 407 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: of a challenge than a move. It's like, how can 408 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: life be boring when you have to, when you try 409 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: to make new friends, when you're discovering a completely novel environment, 410 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: when you're you know, building a new life, decorating a 411 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: new home, like all of those things. And so I've 412 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: really had I'm sitting back and thinking about it. In 413 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: some cases though, I do think that we do need 414 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: to take risks like that. Yeah, Like there are moments 415 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: where it's like, it might actually be that there is 416 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: something in your external life that is not right for 417 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: you right It might it might be that you are 418 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: working a job or in a career that is deeply unfulfilling, 419 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: and you've always had this sense of I want to 420 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: do something more, I want to do something different. Maybe 421 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: I want to do something more creative. How do we 422 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: approach that to know that that is actually what we 423 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: want to do versus what we feel like will make 424 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,959 Speaker 1: us happier. I think that our approach to risks in 425 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: that sense, I always promote risk taking, not like jumping 426 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: off a bridge or whatever, but like risk taking in 427 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: the sense that, like, it's better to do the thing 428 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: than to not do the thing, You'll minimize regret in 429 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: the future. Is that always the case when we're thinking 430 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: about big life changes. 431 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 2: Say this like a true therapist. It depends, I absolutely, 432 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 2: I mean to have the confidence and the courage to 433 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 2: take risks in service of you know, your goals, your values, 434 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 2: the life you want. I completely agree with that, and 435 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 2: I think there, for me, from my perspective, no bigger 436 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 2: regret than not doing something that you wanted to do. 437 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 2: And especially you know, talking with people sometimes at the 438 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 2: end of their lives, that's what they talk about. Aren't 439 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: the things they did, It was the things that they 440 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 2: didn't do. So I think there's a lot of wisdom 441 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 2: in that. I also think that you really touched on 442 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: something important though, which is this theme, this pattern of 443 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 2: how do I know if I'm taking a risk that 444 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: is going to get me to a different place where 445 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: I will feel differently and I'll finally feel more satisfied, 446 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: or whether or not I'm you know, putting myself into 447 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: a new situation with these false expectations that it's the 448 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 2: circumstances that are going to change the way I feel. 449 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: And so obviously I don't want to start unpacking your 450 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 2: stuff here on your podcast in front of all of 451 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 2: your listeners, but well, questions, I would you know encourage 452 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 2: everybody to be think about, thinking about, or doing some 453 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: journaling about is what do I imagine would be different 454 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: for me if I lived in a different town or 455 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 2: a different career, for example, and be specific, you know, 456 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 2: like how would I be feeling and why? And as 457 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 2: you're asking yourself those questions, be thinking about is this 458 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 2: connected to my values or my meaning? And why am 459 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 2: I attaching it to this specific career or relationship or 460 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 2: location that I might be moving to. And the real 461 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: power question is what would need to be different about 462 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 2: the way I was showing up here and now if 463 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 2: I wanted to feel this way right this very second 464 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 2: to begin to differentiate? Like am I chasing a false 465 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 2: idea and missing the opportunity for growing in place? I 466 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 2: see this oftentimes in people who change careers. Right they've 467 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 2: decided that there's something about their job or their employer 468 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 2: or whatever that doesn't feel good for them anymore. And 469 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: sometimes legitimately that's true. They have better opportunities elsewhere, so godspeed, 470 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: go do that. But when people just get out of 471 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 2: one job and into another without really growing in place 472 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 2: and thinking about what is actually going on with me 473 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: that I'm feeling so stressed out about my job. They 474 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 2: don't get to uncover the fact that maybe it's difficult 475 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 2: for them to manage their time effectively or set boundaries 476 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 2: or organize their work in a way to be effective. 477 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 2: But they don't look at how they're operating in their job. 478 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 2: They attach it to the job itself, and in doing so, 479 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: lose a really great opportunity for personal growth. 480 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: I also feel like it's this fear of a sense 481 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: of stagnation as well, fear of a sense of am 482 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: I going to waste my life doing this thing? Am 483 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: I going to waste my life in this job? Am 484 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: I going to waste my life in this relationship? Am 485 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: I going to waste my life in this city around 486 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: these people? And it's that fear of I think it's 487 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: almost like existential dread of being like I understand, and 488 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: I'm I guess we as a collective understand that we 489 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: really only get one life based on your beliefs, That's 490 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: what I've If you get one life, you have to 491 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: live it as best as you can. And I think 492 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: sometimes being so fearful that we're not living it as 493 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: best as we can actually creates patterns of behavior. As 494 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: you were saying that maybe a form of self sabotage, right, 495 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: actually undermining our true sense of purpose, our true vision, 496 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: our true dedication to our actual selves because we're pursuing 497 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: a different version of us that has been created by fear, 498 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: like a fear of not doing enough, a fear of 499 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: missing out. How do we how do we approach that 500 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: with balance? The balance of Like, yes, taking risks is 501 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: part of how I see my life, for example, like 502 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: going and doing a bunch of solo travel is something 503 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: that I see is integral to my life. Hiking Everest 504 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: is one of my biggest life goals. Or yes, I 505 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: do want to, you know, move to a new city 506 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: where I know no body. How can we manage both 507 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: of those needs? The need to firstly have a stable 508 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: sense of self and do that self work of Like 509 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: maybe this is internal versus the need to also push 510 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: beyond our comfort zone in ways that might leave us 511 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: feeling perhaps more lost, or might make us feel more content. 512 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Like do you understand this balance 513 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: that I'm trying to really get to? 514 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 2: I do I do? How to? I think what you're 515 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: saying it's like almost how to know what to trust? 516 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: And like, what is the path that would help you, 517 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: you know, And so I guess what I would be 518 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 2: thinking about is drilling down into the values that are 519 00:30:54,640 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: defining your sense of what is important. Like you taught 520 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 2: you use this phrase like I don't want to waste 521 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: my life, and so what would be happening if your 522 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 2: life were wasted? And like, to use your example, there 523 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: was a value around experiencing new things like having adventures, novelty, right, 524 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: like pushing your limits. Those are values. And so it's like, 525 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 2: what you're saying is that if I'm not expressing these values, 526 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: that would mean that my life wasn't worth living, that 527 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 2: I had wasted my life somehow. And so I think 528 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,959 Speaker 2: there's a lot of valuable exploration that comes from getting 529 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 2: into what is valuable and meaningful to each of us 530 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: as individuals. So, like going back to the story that 531 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: I started with when I was in my twenties and 532 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 2: this huge new chapter of opened up for me. I 533 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 2: had been working in jobs where I was just kind 534 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 2: of there. It wasn't really attached to any personal meaning 535 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: or any of my own life values, and I wasn't 536 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 2: clear at that time about what those things were. And 537 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 2: it was only after you know, going through that crisis 538 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 2: right and thinking about I could die at any second. 539 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 2: My cousin Jimmy was in his office on the top 540 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: of the World Trade Center, mining his own business, drinking 541 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 2: a cup of coffeet nine o'clock in the morning, and 542 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: an airplane came through the window and it just like 543 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: took away the certainty that your life is just going 544 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 2: to go on forever. And so it pushed me into 545 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 2: contact with this idea of you know, at the end 546 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 2: of my life, looking back, what would have been made 547 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 2: my life worth living? And part of that really was 548 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,719 Speaker 2: I want to be of service to other people, Like 549 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: if I could figure out a way to help other 550 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 2: people grow or be helpful to them in some ways, 551 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 2: and that could go in a lot of different directions 552 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 2: in terms of a career path. But in order for 553 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: me to feel like my life had been worth something, 554 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 2: it would have been making a positive impact in the 555 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 2: lives of other people. But that's the kind of value 556 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: exploration I'm talking about, because when we can understand that, 557 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 2: that's where you begin to feel confident about I'm making 558 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 2: the right decision, because you're comparing your life choices to 559 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 2: the values that you've clarified for yourself. 560 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: Rather than someone else's values. 561 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Yes. 562 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely, that makes so much sense to me. And I 563 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,239 Speaker 1: think it's so interesting because we're talking about, you know, 564 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: starting the next chapter in your life, right, and maybe 565 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: like the next chapter is not that big life change 566 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: that you feel you need to make, it's actually sitting 567 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: down in that self appraisal and that real deep dive 568 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: into what do I actually want from my life? What 569 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: are my values here? What is my vision? And I 570 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: think what is genuinely going to make me happy and 571 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: satisfied in the long term, rather than just as an 572 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: instantaneous kind of blip on the radar, like a little 573 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: bit of an outlier, you know, Like I think back 574 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: to that example of people who leave relationships with people 575 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: that they might deeply love just because they don't meet 576 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: some vision for what they for a fairy tale romance. 577 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: Obviously that's totally your call, but I think it's interesting 578 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: that that actually might leave us in a place where 579 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: we are alone, even though our struggle has been to 580 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: not be alone. So's it's kind of counter to what 581 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: we actually expected it to be the outcome, and also 582 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: counter to perhaps our vision and our value to find 583 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: someone we love and settle down and have them in 584 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: our life. So I think that was excellent advice and 585 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: I feel like perhaps different than what people expected. 586 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 2: But I know. But that's the thing. I think. When 587 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 2: you get clear about your values, it then becomes easy 588 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 2: to make decisions on a day to day basis, because 589 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 2: all you have to do is compare to a course 590 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 2: of action. Is this in alignment with my values or not? 591 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 2: Another piece of this to try to get that clarity 592 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 2: around going into a next chapter, taking a risk and 593 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 2: being reasonably confident that it's the right risk. So, for example, 594 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 2: me going back to counseling school, tons of money, tons 595 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 2: of time. I didn't know if I was going to 596 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 2: like it as a career, but having that values clarity 597 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 2: helped me be like, I'm going to try this. I'm 598 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 2: going to try this. I'm glad I did. But the 599 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 2: other thing to be aware of is that it's not 600 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 2: just that we hold values. And so it could be adventure, 601 00:35:54,239 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 2: being of service, family, unconditional love, financial security, spirituality, all 602 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 2: of these, but it's also organizing these values in terms 603 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 2: of importance. Because somebody whose value of financial security is 604 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 2: a higher priority value than being generous or having adventures, 605 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 2: their life is going to look very different because they're 606 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 2: going to be making choices that prioritizes one value over another. 607 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 2: So that's where, you know, a lot of introspection and 608 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 2: self clarity becomes very important when you're thinking about designing 609 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 2: a new chapter. 610 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, understanding what you're actually motivated by as well. 611 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 2: I think correct, that's exactly it. 612 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: So I feel like you've created a lot of self 613 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: introspection for me and things for me to go away with. 614 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: I hope that there are others who are listening to 615 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: this who are perhaps contemplating ending a relationship, starting in 616 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: your career, quitting a job that they once thought was 617 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: their dream job, who were better able to sit back 618 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: and be like, is this new life chapter really what 619 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: I think it is? Or is it kind of a 620 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: proxy for not wanting to change something internally that's going 621 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: to lead me disatisfy no matter where I am. So 622 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for coming on 623 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: to the show and for joining us. 624 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you again for inviting me. This is 625 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 2: a great conversation, and I do hope that this conversation 626 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 2: was helpful for your listeners and starting to get clarity 627 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 2: and confidence to know what the what the next chapter involves, 628 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 2: is it changing circumstances, doing some personal growth work that 629 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 2: changes their own inner landscape. But the real value is 630 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 2: getting clear on our meaning, our values, our purpose and 631 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 2: then making decisions that are based on that. 632 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I feel like that is such a value insight, 633 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: such valuable advice. So thank you so much for sharing 634 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: it like it was. Yeah, it was. It was a 635 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: beautiful episode, So thank you for coming on. Where can 636 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: people find you? Obviously we've spoken about your own podcast 637 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: if they want to listen to more Love, Happiness and Success. 638 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: Do you have an Instagram? Do you have anywhere they 639 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: can follow along with your journey and what you're working on? 640 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for asking. Yes, the Love, Happiness and 641 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 2: Success Podcast. Welcome to listen. I recently started doing this 642 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: video version so they can come hang out in my 643 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 2: office on YouTube for the Love, Happiness and Success Podcast. Also, yes, 644 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 2: certainly do Instagram at doctor Lisa Marie Bobbie, but really 645 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 2: on my website growingself dot com. So there Another value 646 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 2: and source of meaning for me is being able to 647 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 2: write and put information out to the world, and so 648 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 2: there is an extensive blog with all kinds of articles 649 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,919 Speaker 2: and podcasts, playlists that I put together for people and 650 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 2: for your listeners if they come to the blog and 651 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 2: podcast page. I have everything organized into like content collections, 652 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 2: so to come into the Happiness collection, and then there's 653 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 2: a little cluster of articles and podcasts around holistic life 654 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 2: design that I think would be really helpful for people 655 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 2: who are in this space of what where do I go? 656 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 2: What decision do I make in terms of relationship or career? 657 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 2: That would be more information for them on this topic 658 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 2: and all completely free. I just put it out into 659 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 2: the world because one of my values is being of service. 660 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 2: So there we are. 661 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, so generous. I'm actually gonna go look at that 662 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: holistic life design. I'll give you, yes, please do. I 663 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: feel like so many of us now twenties need that, Like, 664 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are so many people listening to this 665 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: being like I am so terribly absolutely lost. Some life 666 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: design probably would really benefit me. So thank you for 667 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: doing all of that for us, for people like you, 668 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: for people like me. I just want to say again, 669 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming on board. If you enjoyed this episode, 670 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: please feel free to leave a five star review on 671 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now and 672 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: make sure that you are following for future episodes. If 673 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: you also have a future episode suggestion, or you just 674 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: want to reach out, you just want to chat, you 675 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: want to see what's going on behind the scenes. You 676 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: can follow along at that Psychology podcast on Instagram and 677 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: as always, we will be back next week with another episode.