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Speaker 1: Warning, we're gonna be talking about Eternals today. This movie

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Speaker 1: just came out. Have you seen Eternals? If the answer

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Speaker 1: is no, stop right now, what are you doing? You

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Speaker 1: cannot listen to this because we're gonna spoil the entire movie,

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Speaker 1: the first credit scene and the second credit scene, and

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Speaker 1: lots of other shit I wanna do. Hello, my name

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Speaker 1: is Jason Concepcion. Welcome to episode eleven of X Ray Vision.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna count them all the way up and see

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Speaker 1: how far we get. This is the Crooked Podcast where

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Speaker 1: we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and

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Speaker 1: pop culture in general. On today's Previously on we will

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Speaker 1: talk about the Marvel film each Journals, out now in

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Speaker 1: theaters near you. We'll dive into the film with the

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Speaker 1: help of co host Rosie Knight. I will explore the

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Speaker 1: worlds and work of the celebrated comics creator Jack Kirby.

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Speaker 1: And then we will talk to Abraham Riasman, great comics journalist,

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Speaker 1: and talk about Jack Kirby and a creator writes with

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Speaker 1: regards to the comics industry in general. But first, let's

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Speaker 1: recap Marvel's Eternals, which is a film.

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Speaker 2: We're Tournals we came here seven thousand years ago.

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Speaker 3: To protect humans from the Deviants.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I saw the movie for a second time

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Speaker 1: last night, and I took notes on my phone as

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Speaker 1: best I could, trying to do so surreptitiously in a

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Speaker 1: way that would not get me kicked out of the

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Speaker 1: theater for, you know, being suspected of videotaping the movie.

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Speaker 1: So bear with me, and I hope that these are right.

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Speaker 1: And also, if you haven't seen the movie yet, obviously

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Speaker 1: probably wait on this because I'm gonna spoil a bunch

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Speaker 1: of stuff that happens. Okay, So we open with a

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Speaker 1: title card that tells us about the Eternals and tells

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Speaker 1: us about the Deviants, and tells us of how those

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Speaker 1: two creatures, two species, were created by the Celestials, the

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Speaker 1: giant space gods which you have learned about in movies

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Speaker 1: such as Guardians of the Galaxy and others. The Celestials

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Speaker 1: created the Deviants to hunt intelligent life, but something went wrong,

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Speaker 1: and so they needed to create the Eternals, who are

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Speaker 1: these immortal superheroes to basically kill off the Deviants. We

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Speaker 1: opened five thousand years ago in Mesopotamia, and there is

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Speaker 1: there are some villagers. They're fishing by the shore, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, deviant comes out of the

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Speaker 1: water and eats this kid's dad and he's like, son,

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Speaker 1: get the fuck out of here. And just as the

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Speaker 1: devian is about to eat the boy, the Eternal show

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Speaker 1: up and they just start whooping major ass. Present day,

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Speaker 1: we meet Circe played by Jemma Chan and Dane Whitman

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Speaker 1: played by Kit Harrington. Kit Harrington has to say the

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Speaker 1: name Circe lovingly multiple times in this movie, and it's

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Speaker 1: pretty funny, but maybe not consciously funny. Maybe they didn't

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Speaker 1: know that it was actually funny. Anyway. They're teachers, they're dating.

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Speaker 1: Circe teaches some kind of art class, and there's like

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Speaker 1: this major earthquake across the globe, across the globe, like

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Speaker 1: a five point something or to six I would estimate

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Speaker 1: from just like seeing it, And we see that Circe

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Speaker 1: has the power to change matter into other matters. She

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Speaker 1: turns like a large piece of art stone art into

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Speaker 1: just sand and saves a child's life. Later on, while

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Speaker 1: Circe and Dane Whitman are just kind of like walking

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Speaker 1: around enjoying the town, a deviant shows up and comes

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Speaker 1: out of the would I would guess is the River Thames,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not sure and attacks. We meet another eternal

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Speaker 1: named Sprite, who who is played by Leah mq. Sprite

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Speaker 1: can apparently create illusions and with the help of Icarus

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Speaker 1: played by Richard Madden. Yes, that's right. This movie has

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Speaker 1: both two heirs to the Stark throne and both of

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Speaker 1: them have to say circe numerous times. Icarus shows up

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Speaker 1: and he is very powerful, basically like an eternal superman,

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Speaker 1: and with his help they fight off the deviant. They

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Speaker 1: then decide, gosh, something is going on here. What with

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Speaker 1: the earthquake that shook the entire globe. That's a clue.

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Speaker 1: Plus the deviants. We thought we had taken care of that,

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Speaker 1: but guess what, they're back. We need to contact the

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Speaker 1: other eternals because apparently, after thousands of years of fighting deviants,

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Speaker 1: once that was accomplished, all these turnals had gone their

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Speaker 1: separate ways separate ways, so they go to find Ajak,

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Speaker 1: who is their leader played by us the wonderful Somahayak.

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Speaker 1: They arrive at Ajax like Dorothy farmhouse in the middle

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Speaker 1: of nowhere, and the unfortunately Ajack has been killed. They think, right,

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Speaker 1: it's gotta be because the Devians are back.

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Speaker 3: The Devians killed Ajak.

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Speaker 1: That's what everybody thinks, and everybody's very sad about it.

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Speaker 1: They go around and find other eternals. Where are the

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Speaker 1: rest of the eternals? We meet Kingo played by Kumille Nanjohnny,

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Speaker 1: the Eternal King Goo. He can shoot beams of energy

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Speaker 1: from his fingers and hands, and he is a Bollywood actor,

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Speaker 1: and he has been undercover as a Bollywood actor, playing

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Speaker 1: basically like four generations of a Bollywood actor, pretending to

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Speaker 1: be his own great grandfather, grandfather father. Let's go to

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Speaker 1: you know, somewhere in the outback and there they find

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Speaker 1: Theena and Gilgamesh played by Angelina Julie and Don Lee respectively.

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Speaker 1: They are in some kind of relationship that's a little

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Speaker 1: hard to discern, clearly a warm and loving one, a

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Speaker 1: romantic relationship, a very close platonic relationship, unclear, whatever the case.

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Speaker 1: Theena is experiencing some kind of like memory problems and

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Speaker 1: she will go in and out of funks.

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Speaker 3: And then we meet.

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Speaker 1: Druid played by Barry Kyogan.

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Speaker 3: He is like a professor X.

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Speaker 1: He can take over people's minds, implant implant thoughts, make

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Speaker 1: people do as he wishes. He's living in the rainforest

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Speaker 1: in you know what I would describe as the kind

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Speaker 1: of place that like Nazis probably went to go hide

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Speaker 1: after World War Two, and Druig is running this utopian

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Speaker 1: kind of like farm in the middle of the rainforest.

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Speaker 1: And it's a little troubling the way Druig is just

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Speaker 1: extremely comfortable with taking over people's minds. Later we find

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Speaker 1: Fastos played by Brian Tyree Henry, and he's wonderful and

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Speaker 1: his husband. They live with their child somewhere in the US,

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Speaker 1: I think outside of Chicago, and Fastos has the power

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Speaker 1: to create technology, but he doesn't want to do anything anymore.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't want to help anymore because he's got his

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Speaker 1: kid and he's got his husband and they're very much

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Speaker 1: in love and they don't want to do shit anymore.

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Speaker 1: Also spoiler, Fastos also was instrumental apparently in creating the

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Speaker 1: atomic bomb that was then detonated over Hiroshima and Nick Nagasaki.

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Speaker 3: And so he's just kind of like.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I don't want to do technology stuff anymore.

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Speaker 1: They go back to the Eternals, go back to their ship,

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Speaker 1: and there they find the speedster McCary played by Lauren Ridloff,

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Speaker 1: who is our first deaf superhero in the MCU. So

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Speaker 1: maccary's just been living on the ship all these years

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Speaker 1: and like stealing art and stuff because she can run

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Speaker 1: extremely fast.

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Speaker 3: She's just been chilling out, I should add.

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Speaker 1: In a scene that has haunted me ever since I

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Speaker 1: saw this movie earlier, in Bagdad, like around I want

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Speaker 1: to say, like five hundred BC, McCary again, who is deaf,

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Speaker 1: is communicating using sign language, and she makes the sign

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Speaker 1: for time, which is which she signs by tapping her

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Speaker 1: wrist like a wristwatch. Wristwatches would not be invented for

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Speaker 1: another two thousand years or something that has haunted me.

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Speaker 1: Around about the time that McCary makes the extremely anachronistic

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Speaker 1: sign for time, we get the very very first sex

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Speaker 1: scene on camera in an MCU movie. Of course, we

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Speaker 1: understand that Steve Rogers and Natalia Romanov fucked many, many

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Speaker 1: many times off off screen, at least in my head canon.

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Speaker 1: In Captain American Winter Soldier, the vibes are very clear

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Speaker 1: they fucked a lot. But in Baghdad around five hundred BC,

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Speaker 1: the first on camera sex scene happens in which Icarus

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Speaker 1: and Circe just pounded out on the sands in Mesopotamia

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Speaker 1: blows that back out. Circe played by Gemma Chan not

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Speaker 1: feeling at all. No orgasm has been had, so we're

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Speaker 1: still waiting for that pivotal moment in MCU history.

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Speaker 3: Just sex, very very tame.

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Speaker 1: Later, Circe learns that the celestials have been keeping a

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Speaker 1: secret from them over They've been over the years communicating

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Speaker 1: with a celestial who's been giving them their missions.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't happened for some time.

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Speaker 1: Ajac usually was the one who would take care of that,

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Speaker 1: but now Circe is able to do it, and she

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Speaker 1: learns that actually Earth, planet Earth, is like an egg

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Speaker 1: for a baby celestial, and that intelligent life feeds the

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Speaker 1: celestial in the egg and allows it to grow, and

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Speaker 1: then eventually the celestial hatches from the egg being planet Earth,

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Speaker 1: killing everything on the planet, and then the celestial goes

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Speaker 1: off and lives its life. Circe is like, we can't

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Speaker 1: let this happen because for various reasons, namely that it

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Speaker 1: would kill the billions of people that live on this planet,

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Speaker 1: and we should probably not do that. So they go

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Speaker 1: off and they try to figure out a way to

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Speaker 1: stop it, but they find out that Icarus actually wants

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Speaker 1: it to happen.

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Speaker 3: In fact, he was the.

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Speaker 1: One that killed the Ajac, and now they have to

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Speaker 1: fight him while also fighting the deviants who are evolving

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Speaker 1: into higher forms of deviants, while also stopping the celestial

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Speaker 1: from hatching out of the earth egg. They do manage

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Speaker 1: to stop this by joining together in something called a unimnd,

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Speaker 1: which Fastos figures out that they can do if they

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Speaker 1: all kind of like bond together with their energies, they

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Speaker 1: can create this uni mind that does something and then circe.

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Speaker 1: Because of earlier fight with the deviants over in Druig's village,

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Speaker 1: she had managed to turn a deviant like into a tree.

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Speaker 1: She's not sure how, but she thinks, maybe if I

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Speaker 1: do something similar with the celestial, I can stop the

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Speaker 1: celestial hatching by like touching it and turning it into something.

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Speaker 3: She does this, and she turns it into like.

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Speaker 1: A huge rock, like a big there's just like a

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Speaker 1: celestial popping part way out of the ocean. Now, readers

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Speaker 1: of Marvel comics will probably think of the Avengers headquarters

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Speaker 1: the most recent Avengers headquarters, which is the kind of

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Speaker 1: like corpse of a celestial that is half frozen. Icarus,

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Speaker 1: in what can only be described as the most on

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Speaker 1: the nose scene in movie history, flies into the sun

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Speaker 1: because he has failed to stop the his colleagues, his friends,

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Speaker 1: the Eternals, from stopping from stopping the celestial from hatching.

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Speaker 1: Disgusted with all of this, he goes and flies.

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Speaker 3: Into the sun.

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Speaker 1: His name is Icarus, and he goes into the sun.

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Speaker 1: Circe is able to make Sprite, who is in the

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Speaker 1: form of a child, into a regular person that will

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Speaker 1: now age and is no longer immortal like the rest

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Speaker 1: of the Eternals, and then we get our credit scenes.

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Speaker 1: Credit scene number one, Dane Whitman is hearing a voice.

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Speaker 1: He goes to a very very old looking case which

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Speaker 1: has very like old inscriptions on it, and he opens

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Speaker 1: it and he pulls out a sword which is the

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Speaker 1: Emony Blade, which was introduced earlier in the film when

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Speaker 1: we meet McCary on the Eternal Ship and being bamboom,

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Speaker 1: we realize this is Dane Whitman, the Black Knight from

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Speaker 1: Marvel Comics, a member of the Avengers and other teams,

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Speaker 1: just as he is gazing upon this sword. We hear

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Speaker 1: the voice of maherschel Ali, who plays Blade. We're back

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Speaker 1: on the eternal ship. There is a flash of light.

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Speaker 1: Some figures have teleported onto the ship. It is Pit

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Speaker 1: Patrol voiced by the very funny Patton Oswald and Eros

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Speaker 1: aka Starfox, the brother of Thanos from Titan played by

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Speaker 1: Harry Styles.

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Speaker 3: And that was a thing that happened.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this kind of, I guess confirms that

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Speaker 1: Thanos is an eternal. In the comics, Thanos is like

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Speaker 1: an eternal with like deviant mutations. Eros slash star Fox

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Speaker 1: also is an eternal, and I guess this kind of

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Speaker 1: proves that Thanos is a eternal Slash TV And that's

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Speaker 1: our movie, folks. Currently Rotten Tomatoes score forty nine percent

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Speaker 1: critics score and seeming to be trending down. The audience

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Speaker 1: score is just in as that the movie has just

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Speaker 1: opened eighty six percent initial audience score. This is the

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Speaker 1: at this point lowest rated Marvel movie on Rotten Tomatoes.

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Speaker 1: Let's get a overview of some representative reviews Mick Leasal

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Speaker 1: and the SF Chronicle. It takes a special kind of

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Speaker 1: movie anti magic to make an entire audience in different

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Speaker 1: to the potential destruction of Earth and every living thing

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Speaker 1: on it, Eternal manages it, Dana Stevens and Slat Eternals

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Speaker 1: is as sociologically inconclusive and as picturely beautiful as any

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Speaker 1: movie in the franchise. Was Seen after Seen, bathed in

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Speaker 1: the warm light of Jao's favorite time of day, the

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Speaker 1: pre dust Golden Hour. But it is also one of

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Speaker 1: the weakest Marvel movies I've seen meandering and Wan shots.

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Speaker 1: Using Wan in a review, I would add that Icarus

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Speaker 1: and Icarus and Circe's love scene also takes place in

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Speaker 1: that pre dust Golden Hour. Shirley Lee in the Atlantic

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Speaker 1: in shot after shot show Mind's a quiet and poignant

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Speaker 1: humanity from her characters.

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Speaker 3: I think this is.

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Speaker 1: A bottom tier Marvel movie, not a bad movie at

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Speaker 1: like graded, not on the scale of Marvel movies. It's

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Speaker 1: just like a normal boring movie with some cinematography. Is beautiful,

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Speaker 1: the fights are pretty good, and Kumail Nan Johnny is

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Speaker 1: hilarious and really the best part of the movie for me.

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Speaker 3: As Kingo.

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Speaker 1: The movie depends a lot on emotional space and emotional plot.

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Speaker 1: Some really interesting decisions made here to like finally have

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Speaker 1: true romance and you know, physical longing. We get love triangles,

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Speaker 1: we get jealous see. But unfortunately with that is a

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Speaker 1: really strangely.

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Speaker 3: Like cold depiction.

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Speaker 1: Jemmy shann and Richard Madden just kind of like have

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Speaker 1: no chemistry and they are former lovers. It's it's better

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Speaker 1: with with Kit Harrington's Dane Whitman, but he's like barely

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Speaker 1: in the movie Sprite and Icarus, kind of Sprite has

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Speaker 1: a crush on Icarus, I guess you could say.

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Speaker 3: And that is probably.

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Speaker 1: The most like true like emotion and longing that is

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Speaker 1: conveyed on the screen in a real way. Unfortunately, like

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Speaker 1: Sprite is like a child character, which is super weird

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Speaker 1: although like obviously thousands of years old, but in the

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Speaker 1: physical form of a child, and it could have just

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Speaker 1: used more plot.

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Speaker 3: It's fine.

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Speaker 1: Too many characters is part of the problem too, I think.

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Speaker 1: Really for me, the sad part of this movie is

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Speaker 1: you get the first real on screen representation of a

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Speaker 1: gay character in Fastos who's married with a wonderful child.

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Speaker 1: You get the first representation of a hearing disabled character,

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Speaker 1: of a deaf character in Macary, And really part of

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Speaker 1: the problem is you just have too many of these characters,

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Speaker 1: like really interesting moments like with Druig in the rainforest

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Speaker 1: and King Goo living his life as like a celebrity,

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Speaker 1: but in the end the movie can't focus on any

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Speaker 1: of them. And the reason why I think I would

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Speaker 1: probably put this below say thor The Dark World or

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Speaker 1: even Iron Man two is those movies like understood who

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Speaker 1: the hero of the movie was. It's unclear, like who

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Speaker 1: the central character of this movie is. Theoretically it is Circe,

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Speaker 1: but she's like super weirdly inactive throughout the film, doesn't

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Speaker 1: know how she turns the Deviant into a tree, never

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Speaker 1: really figures it out, at least in a way that

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Speaker 1: is conveyed to the audience, and then when she beats

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Speaker 1: the Celestial is similarly as like doesn't really know what

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Speaker 1: she did and spends the whole movie basically having like

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Speaker 1: imposter syndrome and not knowing why she was picked to

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Speaker 1: lead the team by Ajax. So disappointing in that regard.

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Speaker 1: Post credit scenes were fun. I could have used more

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Speaker 1: Dane Whitman, and I think we'll see it and I'm

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Speaker 1: interested to see where this goes. That said, the strength

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Speaker 1: of the MCU like as a structure, is that you

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Speaker 1: can brick Thor the first Thor movie not great really,

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Speaker 1: but and then Thor The Dark World, arguably up until now,

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Speaker 1: the worst movie in the entire MCU, and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you get the third movie Thor Ragnarok,

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Speaker 1: which is for my money, a top three Marvel movie,

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Speaker 1: maybe the best, depending on what mood I'm in. So

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Speaker 1: is this like devastating? Is this the end of the

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Speaker 1: m c U. No, they'll bounce back from this, but

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Speaker 1: it's still disappointing. Onto the airlock, the Turtles assemble, bomb

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Speaker 1: bomb bom bom. On my left, who is that?

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Speaker 3: It's Rosy Night, the number one in Turtles.

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Speaker 4: Lover the.

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Speaker 1: Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Rosie uh Eternals is out.

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Speaker 5: It's out.

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Speaker 1: We've seen it several times. It is getting panned. Let's

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Speaker 1: just be honest about it's hit thee ever worst reviewed

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Speaker 1: mc movie MCU movie ever, I would have truthfully, I

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Speaker 1: would have it near the bottom of my list of

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Speaker 1: MCU movies. If not at the bottom, I would need

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Speaker 1: to process it.

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Speaker 3: A little more.

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Speaker 1: Not a terrible movie by any means, because I would

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Speaker 1: argue MCU the mc has really not made any like

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Speaker 1: truly awful movies.

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Speaker 6: But you love this movie, yeah that so.

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Speaker 1: Bring bring me like Druig, like take with your powers.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so then make.

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Speaker 1: Me and everyone else love it. Tell us why this.

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Speaker 6: Is a movie that truly understands the weirdness of Jack Kirby.

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Speaker 3: This is it is.

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Speaker 6: Ruling strange, experimental, ambitious movie that mixes the humanity of

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Speaker 6: Jack Kirby with the absolute sci fi wildness that he's

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Speaker 6: known for. To me, it has a character in Fastos

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Speaker 6: who I think is like a love letter to Jack Kirby,

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Speaker 6: an inventor who's all about the machinery and the mechanics,

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Speaker 6: which is so much about what we love about Jack Kirby.

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Speaker 6: I love Chloe Jaw the writer is such an incredible

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Speaker 6: film and this brings Obviously, it is not Chloe Jao

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Speaker 6: getting to make her own incredible art house vision because

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Speaker 6: it's an MCU movie, but there is so much humanity.

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Speaker 6: I feel like one of the biggest things that work

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Speaker 6: for me about this movie is every there's ten Eternals

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Speaker 6: and eleven new characters if you count Dane, and every

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Speaker 6: single one has a nuanced, interesting relationship with the others

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Speaker 6: which I've never felt in The Avengers.

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Speaker 5: There's no like Cirsa again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no you know.

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Speaker 1: This is here is there are a lot of really

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Speaker 1: really interesting and good choices that and I would argue that,

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Speaker 1: you know, all together it didn't make okay heese so.

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Speaker 3: Whole that said.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the kind of like a emotional spaces that this

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Speaker 1: movie went to, I think are super interesting. The fact

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Speaker 1: that we get love triangles, that we get romantic relationships,

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Speaker 1: we get breakups within a team is a thing that

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Speaker 1: we haven't really seen before. Yes, like Vision and Scarlet,

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Speaker 1: which that's.

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Speaker 6: The closest I think if you get, if you like

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Speaker 6: that aspect of wonder Vision, the grief, the forever romance

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Speaker 6: that kind of can go from zombies in what If

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Speaker 6: to kind of the past and the future in one

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Speaker 6: division that aspect of this. This is definitely the most

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Speaker 6: romantic MCU movie. And as someone who grew up as

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Speaker 6: in avowed romance hater but has as an adult realized

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Speaker 6: I actually love romance, that.

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Speaker 5: Was a big thing for me.

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Speaker 6: I wrote a piece that was like ranking all the

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Speaker 6: ships in Eternal because every Eternal ship is good, Like

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Speaker 6: there are some I'm a Dane Whitman, Circe OTP Like

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Speaker 6: I love that Avengers run where Black Knight and Circe

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Speaker 6: are together and they're in the Avengers, the Jacket Avengers

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Speaker 6: as we as we like to call.

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Speaker 1: Me, the Monica Ramboau Avengers. That was my introduction to

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Speaker 1: the event. That was my era of the event. Roger Stern, Roger.

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Speaker 5: Sterne, Monica rambo Is Sellous era.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Actually, just on a tangential MC, you think Nia DaCosta

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Speaker 6: has been talking a lot about how that is like

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Speaker 6: an era she's really been looking at for Marvels, So

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Speaker 6: I'm very excited about that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think.

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Speaker 5: Eternals is worth it. I think it's weird.

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Speaker 6: The thing is, I don't the one thing, the one

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Speaker 6: criticism I don't agree with this. I don't agree that

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Speaker 6: it's a badly made film. I think that the pacing,

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Speaker 6: the way that it works, it works for me. I

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Speaker 6: objectively disagree with the idea that Chloe made a bad film,

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Speaker 6: But I do understand the critiques that people have about

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Speaker 6: it being kind of too weird for them, or too

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Speaker 6: dense or too esoteric, and in that way, I just think,

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Speaker 6: you know, there's movies for everyone in the MCU, and

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Speaker 6: this for me is definitely a my rotating top five.

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Speaker 6: I don't know where it is, but I think this

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Speaker 6: is for me. This is the kind of after twenty

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Speaker 6: six movies, I want to see someone doing something really

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Speaker 6: weird and shooting for something different, whether it's tone, also like,

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Speaker 6: there are things in here. This is the big thing

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Speaker 6: I think if I was trying to sell someone to

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Speaker 6: go and see it, because this is what maps to

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Speaker 6: tell me, you know, Jason, because you're going to see

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Speaker 6: this movie anyway, if you like the MCU and you

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Speaker 6: want to know what's going to happen next, and you

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Speaker 6: want to learn about all the cool weird stuff that's

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Speaker 6: probably going to impact us in Multiverse of Madness. How

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Speaker 6: mutants are going to be involved, Yes, how you know

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Speaker 6: Thanos might come back. This is the movie to see

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Speaker 6: because it sees so much cool, weird comic book stuff,

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Speaker 6: and it takes very heavily from the comics, maybe more

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Speaker 6: heavily than any other MCU movie.

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Speaker 5: Not that anyone has read the Eternal's comics.

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Speaker 1: So barely anyone will know. But if you do like it,

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Speaker 1: a lot of Volume one and Volume two Eternals.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and also as well like if you you know

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Speaker 6: there was there's only been like four Well there's a

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Speaker 6: fifth volume of Eternals now, but there's only four volumes

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Speaker 6: of Eternals.

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Speaker 5: So something else that's cool about this is.

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Speaker 6: If you do like it, you can easily pick up

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Speaker 6: some eternals and be like, oh, this is where, this

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Speaker 6: is where this comes from, or this is where the

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Speaker 6: emerging celestial, the dreaming celestial, this is you know, all.

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Speaker 5: This kind of weird stuff.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and the cast as well, I think is just

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Speaker 6: really good, Like they blew me up Barry Kona, who

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Speaker 6: I love anyway. Actually, this is something I wanted to

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Speaker 6: say to you because I was thinking about the biggest

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Speaker 6: takeaway I had from this movie, aside from loving it,

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Speaker 6: was they never should have recast Barry Kon in Why

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Speaker 6: the Last Man. He would have been so perfect because

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Speaker 6: Druig is like that perfect mix of like is he terrible?

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Speaker 5: Is he good? But I care about him? And then

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Speaker 5: you get to go on that journey, which is what

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Speaker 5: he should have been with you.

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Speaker 1: But you know, on the topic of interesting choices and

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Speaker 1: interesting kind of like spaces and energies to explore Druig.

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Speaker 1: You know, his power is essentially you know he can.

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Speaker 1: He's a mentalist. He can project his will into other people.

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Speaker 1: He can make them do what he wants, essentially like

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Speaker 1: a Charles Xavier gen grep.

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Speaker 3: And it is unclear.

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Speaker 1: First of all, he has a code which makes him

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Speaker 1: something of a great card. He carres deeply about about

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Speaker 1: violence and about suffering, and unfortunately his answers to those

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Speaker 1: problems is I will just control people's minds and make

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Speaker 1: them not do that.

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Speaker 5: Which is actually quite a Charles Xavier move. Actually, if

434
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 5: you think Charles treats it, but that those that's I

435
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 5: think something. But it's interesting.

436
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to just I found myself, you know, when

437
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: we first go to the jungle and meet him, and

438
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: I find I found myself just wanting to know more

439
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: about what he's been up to. That was a very

440
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: interesting thing. That was a very interesting moment of the film.

441
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 6: Yeah. I think that's another thing I can understand where

442
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 6: people might not have been digging it so much. Is

443
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 6: there's so many characters that there's probably a couple that

444
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 6: you really want to know more about. And this movie

445
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 6: is very much like I feel like it's peppering them

446
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 6: in and they will be in the like at the

447
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 6: end of the movie, it says you know Eternals will return.

448
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 6: That doesn't to me signal and Eternals too, that signals

449
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 6: that you will see these characters in the wider MCU

450
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 6: playing a part in whatever comes next, which is kind

451
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 6: of teased in the post credit scenes.

452
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: Let me so, I gave some of my larger critiques

453
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: in the previous segment.

454
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: But I'll give you.

455
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: One of my small.

456
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 3: Critiques that I think is.

457
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: I think it's a thing that Marvel has done well

458
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: in the past, and that is like quietly very important.

459
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: That is, especially when introducing new characters. And you saw

460
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: this in Marvel's The Avengers. Any team up movie where

461
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're seeing characters together in combinations

462
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: that maybe you haven't seen before. In the past, Marvel

463
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: has been really good at using fights two show how

464
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: powers worked and how powerful the characters are in relations

465
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: to each other. And I would argue that they didn't

466
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: do a great job of that this time. And because

467
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: of that, I have no idea how tough it was

468
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: or wasn't to beat Icarist at the end, Like how

469
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: tough really was he? He seemed like he is, you know,

470
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: in terms of strength it's like maybe on par with Gilgamesh,

471
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: maybe Gilgamesh could have taken him, could thena have taken

472
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: him like one on one, And that for me was

473
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: was a quiet detail that is often overlooked in earlier

474
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: Marvel films. That is kind of like part of the

475
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: secret sauce about like why it's so good all of

476
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: their fights are beyond just being like spectacle and cool

477
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: displays of choreography and fantastic destruction of entire building, But

478
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: it also conveys information about like how strong the Hulk is,

479
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: how strong the Hulk is in relation to Iron Man.

480
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: You know, that kind of information is is actually kind

481
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: of important, and I feel.

482
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 3: Like they didn't do it great this time.

483
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 5: I think that you adds a nitpick.

484
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 6: No, no, no, I think you actually tap into one

485
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 6: of the hardest things about adapting the Eternals, which is

486
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 6: in the original Eternal's comics by Jack Kirby, they all

487
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 6: have the same power set and it just changes whoever

488
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 6: you so somebody like everyone can shoot like laser beams

489
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 6: out of their eyes, everybody's super strong, everybody's super fast,

490
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 6: and it just depends on who's using the different skills

491
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 6: at a different time.

492
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 5: So I think that.

493
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 6: In that way, the movie is like at a place

494
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 6: that's harder than necessarily something like Captain America, where you

495
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 6: know really clearly what his power set is, because they

496
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 6: basically have to redefine that when you have ten characters,

497
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 6: like you say, that can become kind of hard. Like

498
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 6: the characters who stand out the most power wise is mccari,

499
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 6: speed stuff, overpowered, always good. Druid can control people's minds,

500
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 6: you know, Donley basically, I mean Gilgamesh basically one punch

501
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 6: man candy with both hairs exactly. And like, the thing

502
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 6: that I found really interesting, which I guess we can

503
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 6: get into later when we talk.

504
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 5: About theories, is give it.

505
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 6: They gave Circe this very specific set of transmuting matter,

506
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 6: which occasionally pops up in the comics. She loves to

507
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 6: turn people into pigs. That's like a regular thing. There's

508
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 6: like five times she did that throughout the comics. But

509
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 6: I feel like that is really and this I agree

510
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 6: with you here that this is if you can't sit

511
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 6: here and say this, this, this, and this is the

512
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 6: powers and here's how they work, then that is definitely

513
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 6: something that differs and is less established than say your

514
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 6: Avengers famous, you know the round shot where you get

515
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 6: to know what everyone can do.

516
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: But I I.

517
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 6: Do think I think that the Circy powers are I

518
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 6: think the reason those are the most specific is because

519
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 6: I think they are essentially replacing. They are going to

520
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 6: use her as their molecule man when they move into

521
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 6: Secret Wars, is my guess, because I think it's very

522
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 6: specific to make her powers. I know that when we

523
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 6: talked before, you were saying, you know, you felt like

524
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 6: that's a character who didn't have like motivations and was

525
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 6: kind of in this space of imposter syndrome for most movie.

526
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, basically like why did you know? Why was I

527
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: chosen the lead? And I don't know if I can

528
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: do it? How did I turn this dev into intrigue?

529
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: I actually have no idea.

530
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 3: Et cetera.

531
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, So I think that in that space, if I

532
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 6: was looking at this as a the MCU as a whole.

533
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,719
Speaker 5: What's an easter egg? What's important going forwards?

534
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 6: I think the most important takeaway with Circe is her power,

535
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 6: which maybe is why to some people she feels like

536
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 6: a less defined character, because I think the powers are

537
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 6: the most important, and her amount of power that she

538
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 6: could turn this you know, emerging celestial into stone by

539
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 6: herself or whatever. That I think is that actually the

540
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 6: meant to be the biggest takeaway if we're talking about

541
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 6: what the MCU is doing going forward.

542
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about theories I think. So

543
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of attention on the post

544
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: credit scenes we get as you mentioned, the reveal of

545
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: Dane Whitman Black Knight from the comics, one of my favorites. Yeah,

546
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: the most really really fun character that gets you into

547
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of Marvel's British character lore is

548
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: just simply the weirdest shit.

549
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, Arthurian weird, Mulin weird.

550
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 6: And they had a little in the other post credit scene,

551
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 6: you know, at some point in the movie, some you know,

552
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 6: Theena mentions that Arthur always thought she was really attractive.

553
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 6: So they're definitely leaning into the bringing that Arthurian law.

554
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 6: Because in the comics the Ebony Blade was like created

555
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 6: by Merlin, and the Ebony Blade is what we see

556
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 6: Dane Whitman opening and kind of deciding whether or not

557
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 6: he's going to use it at the end.

558
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: I love, I just love that this sets the stage

559
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: for a possible like Captain Britaincore like all the super

560
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: weird shit. So that's that's a credit scene number one.

561
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: Credits scene number two, of course, is the reveal of

562
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: Harry Styles as Eros. And well, now before we get

563
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: into the the particular history of star Fox.

564
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: Interesting choice there.

565
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: So star Fox is the brother of Thanos, and this

566
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: seems like it confirms that Thanos is an eternal, right,

567
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: so in the comics.

568
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 5: An eternal and a deviant and.

569
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: A deviant, right like a mutated eternal and so it

570
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: and that was not clear that that was the case

571
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: in the MC. Now it seems like that is definitely

572
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: the case.

573
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 6: I'm guessing they're gonna say he's an eternal rather than

574
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 6: a deviant because they weren't allowed to help anything that

575
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 6: wasn't to do with deviance, and if Thanos was a deviant,

576
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 6: surely they could have helped with the Danas thing. But anyway, Yeah,

577
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 6: that is some I didn't see that coming at all.

578
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 6: Aros is Danas's brother Aeros slash star Fox. We will

579
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 6: probably hear him called Aeros in this because of Nintendo.

580
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, wonderful y starfucks and a video game

581
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 7: series of My favorite thing about this is like Eros

582
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 7: and Thanos were both introducing the first issue the same issue,

583
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 7: which was Iman fifty five from nineteen seventy three.

584
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 6: Jim Stalin, Mike Friedrich, ma Quesposito, John Castanerza, and I

585
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 6: just love that because it has nothing to do with

586
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 6: anything cosmic. And that's just Jim Stalin. He just used

587
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 6: to be He'd be like, I'm doing Iron Man. Now

588
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,479
Speaker 6: here's two cosmic brothers. So they appear in the same

589
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 6: first issue. So if you have that first issue, you're

590
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 6: a collector well done because that's a key issue. That's

591
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 6: a very very key issue. And yeah, Thanos's brother, he's

592
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 6: like very what's the polite way to say.

593
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 5: He begins he's a Latharia.

594
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 4: I mean ifore plightly, okay, so beg He begins as

595
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 4: Althario and ends as like a sexual assaulter, which is

596
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 4: the fact that they introduced him.

597
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 6: I still can't believe it when I when I heard

598
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 6: this rumor, I was like, this is made up.

599
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 5: I was like, who wants to get.

600
00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: In to the world? So fuck spent a lot of years,

601
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, flying around space having adventures. He's got like this.

602
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: They kind of did it with Harry Styles with this

603
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: kind of like foxy ear hair, and he's you know,

604
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: kind of like this dashing, charming guy. Now his powers,

605
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 1: you say, what are his powers? Like, okay, he can fly,

606
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: he can kind of right, he has some level of

607
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: super strengths. And crucially, he can essentially like target the

608
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: parts of the person's brain where arousal lives and he

609
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: can so he can basically make.

610
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 3: Is that is.

611
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: And so we should add that this is obviously a

612
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: very troubling power to use on people. And one and

613
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:56,479
Speaker 1: two the che Hulk, Yeah, five or six actually put

614
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: him on trial sexual assault.

615
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 6: But the funniest thing is, like, so in that series

616
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 6: that was one of those good reconsiderations where everyone was like,

617
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 6: wait a minute, this is like creepy, like why a

618
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 6: manipulating and seducing people?

619
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 5: So they put him on trial and then Jennifer Sheehock.

620
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 6: Is actually defending him, but then she realizes he's being

621
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 6: using the powers on her to make her like and

622
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 6: she's like, what the heck?

623
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 5: And then I think at the end he wasn't.

624
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 6: But yeah, basically this guy has so badly behaved that

625
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 6: they literally put him on trial for sexual assault.

626
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: So oh yeah, baby, do I have your consent exactly.

627
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 6: I'm assuming we're not gonna see that element here. I

628
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 6: think they've introduced.

629
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 5: I think they've.

630
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 6: Introduced like a hot young actor who people find attractive,

631
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 6: who has like a certain amount of kind of like

632
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 6: gender present gender fluidity in the way they present themselves

633
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 6: as a pop star, in the way that they kind

634
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 6: of behave, And I think that they'll just you know,

635
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 6: he started, he got introduced by basically saying how hot

636
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 6: Angelina Joli's Tina was so, which is true, she looks

637
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 6: incredible in that movie. But like, I think that that

638
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 6: it's gonna he's going to be more of like a

639
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 6: safely flirtatious guy who probably has a lot of connections

640
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 6: with important women throughout the universe who he's had consensual

641
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 6: relationships with.

642
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, And you know, the one thing.

643
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 6: That we forgot from the first post credits scene is

644
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 6: that so at the end, Dame Whitman's going to pick

645
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 6: up this spooky sword that basically like possesses you, And

646
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 6: the idea of the sword is it's cursed, so the

647
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 6: only people who can wield it properly are people who

648
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 6: lose themselves to the sword and they become like murderous berserkers.

649
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 5: So he's looking at the spooky.

650
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 6: Sword and then Blade a voice comes and he says, like,

651
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 6: are you sure you're ready for that, mister Whitman? And

652
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 6: we thought maybe it was Blade, and then Chloe Jao

653
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 6: in an interview with Fandom confirmed it was than you, Chloe,

654
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 6: Thank you Chloe. It was Mahershler Ali as Blade, which

655
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 6: is super cool. And I love that they introduced him

656
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 6: in London because in the comics, Blade is a character

657
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 6: who comes from London.

658
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 5: He was born in Soho.

659
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 6: He was raised in a brothel and then he was

660
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 6: trained to fight vampires by a cool trumpets a called

661
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 6: Jamal Afari.

662
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: I will say, we forget this is doesn't really get

663
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: mentioned enough.

664
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 3: Blade is like one hundred and twenty.

665
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: Thirty or something like that, Like he was hanging around

666
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: we have logan.

667
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 5: He's like the jazz.

668
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 6: He was born in like nineteen hundred or something, and

669
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,439
Speaker 6: like in early.

670
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: Twentieth century London, British guy turned into a vampire, which

671
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: is super cool.

672
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 3: I so.

673
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: I think that you're right in the kind of in

674
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: the hypothesis you laid out about how Blade connects will

675
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: be the kind of like connecting.

676
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 3: Darkneck fury, dark adventage person.

677
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: The thing that I initially thought of when I was like,

678
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: is that Blade? And then if that's Blade, it felt

679
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: like a reference to the Heroes Reborn storyline, which is

680
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: which is you know, very recent storyline, which is about

681
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: a world in which reality has been altered, so the

682
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: Avengers never formed, it never took place, they don't exist,

683
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: and in their place is the Squadron Supreme.

684
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: But crucially, as always.

685
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: Happens with stories like this, as with House of m

686
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: there's always one person.

687
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 3: Who remembers what the real world is supposed to.

688
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: Be like, and in this reality it is Blade then

689
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: goes around contacting like getting Steve Rogers out of the

690
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: ice and being like, hey, do you remember what the

691
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 1: world was like before? And assembling a team to try

692
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: and put the world back the way it was. Well,

693
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: that's initially what I thought, And with the multiverse stuff,

694
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: maybe there's I think, maybe there's something like that.

695
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 5: I am a true believer law in.

696
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 6: That in the absolute corporate synergy that Marvel loves to do,

697
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 6: and I read a lot of the comics and one

698
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 6: of the things that I truly believe in.

699
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 5: This has helped me a lot of theories that I've

700
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 5: got right, a lot of theories I've got wrong.

701
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 6: But like, they love to see stuff, so it makes

702
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 6: sense to me, even if this is not necessarily going

703
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 6: to be a exact Heroes Reborn story, because we know

704
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 6: they like to pick and choose from what they take,

705
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 6: it is unlikely that it's a coincidence that they had

706
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 6: a story that saw Blade going around and helping heroes

707
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 6: come together in the time that they really needed him,

708
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 6: when there was some kind of multiversal threat. That to

709
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 6: me is you're setting up an idea so that people

710
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 6: can watch that movie and go, oh, is this like

711
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 6: Heroes Reborn? Not the nineties Heroes Reborn, by the way, guys,

712
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 6: just not the sexy Captain America boob Heroes Reborn?

713
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 5: Now, this is the.

714
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: New re the Dark Avengers. I think that I think

715
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 1: that you're onto something. I think that we're gonna see

716
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: in a post Avengers world's post Tony Stark, you know,

717
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: where heroes may or may not have the actual backing

718
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: of the US government as the Avengers kind of did

719
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: in this Tony Stark era. I think we're gonna see

720
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: two teams. We're gonna see the Blade team, which is

721
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: either Dark Avengers or Midnight can bend this era New Avengers,

722
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, like a new heroes that take up the

723
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: mantle but don't necessarily have the resources that like Tony Starging,

724
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: you know, living like closer to the ground. And then

725
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: we're going to see the Contessa's team, which is the

726
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: US Agent USA Alena, and they're gonna be like the

727
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: Thunderbolts kind of gray slash bad guy Avengers that are

728
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: more closely hued to the US government, which is probably

729
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: going to be more overtly the bad guys as we

730
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: go forward.

731
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think you're totally right.

732
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 6: And I think that they'll do the same thing that

733
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 6: Thunderbolts Comics did originally, where they basically just introduce analogs

734
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 6: for each characters. So there will be the government saying,

735
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 6: here's our Captain America, which we also how people reacted

736
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 6: to with in Falcon Instldiers, Here's our Black Widow, Here's

737
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 6: our you know, whoever else they're going to introduce in

738
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 6: maybe an apt Man or something, and and then the

739
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 6: reality will be that the Dark Avengers, the New Avengers,

740
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 6: the Midnight Sunds, whoever this there's gonna be another team

741
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 6: of kind of Blade and Wang are probably putting them together,

742
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 6: you know, this team.

743
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 5: We might even see multiple teams.

744
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 6: I do think that is kind of where we're headed

745
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 6: with the Multiverse, that you're gonna need these kind of

746
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 6: different heroes for different universes and different spaces. So yeah,

747
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 6: I think that that's we're definitely going to get to see.

748
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 6: And obviously we have like young Avengers forming already.

749
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: I legitimately can because and then we're almost there.

750
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 5: We're so close. We're so close.

751
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: I know.

752
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 6: The one thing I love. I actually they did a

753
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 6: Babysitters Club reboot on Netflix.

754
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 5: It was amazing.

755
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 6: The girl who played Dawn social Gomez. She ended up

756
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 6: being cast as America Chavez. She's amazing. But that did

757
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 6: tip me to the idea that I think they're gonna

758
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 6: at least have some of them be a lot younger,

759
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 6: because to me, America is like always twenty twenty one.

760
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 6: But you know, we have Kate Bishop, who is like

761
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 6: more adult age, so I think you can have We're

762
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 6: gonna have Patriot on that team. I think you can.

763
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 6: We hopefully gonna get see some of that romance, some

764
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 6: of that fun. Uh, And I just I can't wait

765
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 6: for them.

766
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: And obviously you.

767
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 6: Know, uh Wonder's kids. They can kind of be aged

768
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 6: up throughout the.

769
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: Right because you know, they come back from whatever dimension

770
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: they do. They have a demon dimension, you know what,

771
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: other part of Mephisto that you know, realm they were

772
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: in and they come back older up next to the omnibus.

773
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: Welcome to another chapter in the Oonymous where lore, analysis

774
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: an understanding come together. Today, let's talk about the career

775
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: of Jack Kirby, who created much of the mythology on

776
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: display on the screen in Eternals. The Eternals made their

777
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: common debut in Eternals number one, cover Day of July

778
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six.

779
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: Small aside here.

780
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: A later retcon places McCary of the Eternals in the

781
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: story Mercury in the twentieth Century, which is written and

782
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: drawn by Jack Kirby, which appears in nineteen forty's Red

783
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: Raven number one. So technically speaking, that retcon, if you

784
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: choose to read it in a certain way, that retcon

785
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: makes it so the first appearance of the Eternals is

786
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: actually nineteen forty, but let's leave that aside for now.

787
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: Eternals number one tells the story of the origin of

788
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: the Eternals, a race of alien warrior gods, and their

789
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: endless struggle against their twisted cousins, the Deviants. The issue

790
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: was written and penciled by the creator of the Eternals,

791
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,240
Speaker 1: Jack Kirby, and it marked his return to Marvel Comics

792
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: after a half decade run at the company's chief competitor,

793
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: DC Comics. Marvel's nickname for itself is the House of Ideas,

794
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: and Jack Kirby has provided more of that grand mansions

795
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: for then probably anyone besides stan Lee himself, certainly when

796
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: it comes to Marvel's look and feel, the art style,

797
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: the costuming, everything about the aesthetic appearance of many of

798
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: the characters that have now become iconic. There's Kirby, Steve Ditko,

799
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: co creative Spider Man and Doctor Strange, and Joe Simon

800
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: who co created Captain America with Jack.

801
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 3: And that's it.

802
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: And of those three, Jack Kirby absolutely stands alone. Beginning

803
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty one, when the Marvel Comics era started

804
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: in proper fashion, up to about nineteen sixty four five,

805
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: Kirby in a burst of creativity that is essentially unmatched

806
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 1: in American popular culture. Created or co created the Fantastic Four, Galactus,

807
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 1: the original X Men. That's Cyclops, gene Iceman, Angel Beast

808
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 1: plus Professor X Menneto and the rest of the Brotherhood.

809
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 3: Of Evil Mutants Thor Loki as Guard.

810
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 1: All the characters within Asgard, the Rainbow Bridge, Hulk, Doctor Doom,

811
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: Black Panther, were Katta, and many, many, many, many many more.

812
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: On top of that, Kirby helped create the visual language

813
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: of superhero comics, with effects like the Kirby Crackle, which

814
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: are masses of dark circles contrasted with lighter shaded spaces

815
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: used to convey surges of energy. But by the end

816
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: of the sixties, the long creative partnership with Stanley Head

817
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: frayed beyond repair, and the issue was credit. It's an

818
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: issue that in any collaborative endeavor, be it a school

819
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: project or a song or a movie or improv team

820
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: or a comic book creative team, is it's emotionally fraught,

821
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: and of course it is financially crucial. It's a Gordian

822
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: knot that is almost impossible to unwind with any kind

823
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 1: of accuracy because of the subjective nature of individual recollections.

824
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: It's simply impossible to with any kind of accuracy unwind

825
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: who is responsible for what, even in projects with defined

826
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: roles like the like the content created by Marvel Comics,

827
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: in which Stanley was the writer, editor and Jack was

828
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: the artist, and creative work is inherently frustrating anyway, ideas

829
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: come from intimate, personal, psychological, and emotional spaces. Rejecting ideas

830
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: is a necessary part of ideating, but that doesn't make

831
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: the rejection hurt any less for the person whose idea.

832
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 3: Was pitched and then rejected.

833
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: To make things even stickier, the famous Marvel method, the

834
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: loose improvisational system by which Marvel generated story over the first.

835
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 3: Several decades of its.

836
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: Existence, gave artists wide latitude to unleash their imaginations, and

837
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: this ironically made the apportioning of credit a kind of

838
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: rashamonic exercise in the nature of truth. The method worked

839
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: like this, the writer and the artist, in this case

840
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 1: Stanley and Jack Kirby, we get together and hammer out

841
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: a plot, loose plot, which was usually based on an

842
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: initial notion of stands, but not necessarily. Jack would then

843
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: go off and draw the book based not on a

844
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: script or even an outline, but on his own innate

845
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: sense of pacing and story. The panels then would go

846
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: back to Stan, who would fill in the dialogue balloons

847
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: and the narration boxes is needed. This method worked extremely

848
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: well during Marvel's early years. It allowed the maximum of

849
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: creative freedom for the writer and artist and allowed each

850
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: party to work quickly and efficiently. And that's really what

851
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: it was about, you know, this system such that it was.

852
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 3: Was really one of necessity.

853
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: How do we Marvel Comics pump out enough product at

854
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: scale with the limited creative resources that we have. And

855
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: it's a great system right up until the point that

856
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: creators begin to want to benefit from the success that

857
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 1: they helped achieve by taking credit for what was created.

858
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: As the sixties slouch toward the seventies, Stand increasingly became

859
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: the Carnival Barker like face of the company. As the

860
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: editor and writer of the stories, he naturally was the

861
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: point person for interviews, and in those interviews, when naturally

862
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: he was asked about Marvel's magic formula, Lee invariably started

863
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: with heaping helpings of it was mostly me. Stan the Manly,

864
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 1: a nineteen sixty six piece in the New York Herold Tribune,

865
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: is often seen as the Fork in the Road of

866
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: the relationship between Stan and Jack. Writer Nat Friedland opens

867
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: with a scene Lea giving artist Saul Brodsky directions. It

868
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: then compares Stan to the actor Rex Harrison, who, by

869
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: the way, was once nicknamed Sexy Rexi by the Hollywood

870
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: press because he was so handsome, mentions that director Fredriko

871
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 1: Felini is a fan. He's my buddy now, Stan says

872
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,760
Speaker 1: in the piece, and notes that Stan's appearance at Bardie

873
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 1: University drew a larger audience at President Eisenhower, also known

874
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: as the guy who beat Adolf Hitler in real life.

875
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 3: And it goes on like that.

876
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: For about a dozen paragraphs before ever mentioning another artist

877
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: at length. I don't plot spider An anymore, Lee is

878
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: quoted saying in the piece, Steve Ditko, the artist, has

879
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: been doing the stories. I guess I'll leave him alone

880
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 1: until sales start to slip since Spidey got so popular.

881
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: Ditko thinks he's the genius of the world. And this

882
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: is the kind of passive, aggressive shots that Stanley would

883
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: often take it interviews now. To be fair to him,

884
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: he was often also very generous and saying, oh, Jack

885
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 1: and Steve are so creative, and they're amazing artists.

886
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 3: But these kind of digs certainly didn't go unnoticed.

887
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: The article then goes on to describe Jack King Kirby

888
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: as quote a man who created many of the visions

889
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 1: of your childhood in mind.

890
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 3: Okay, good, so far.

891
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: He is sucking on a huge green cigar, and if

892
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,399
Speaker 1: you stood next him on the subway, you would peg

893
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: him for the assistant foreman in a girdle factory. Quite

894
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 1: a contrast from from the comparison of Stanley to one

895
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: of the most handsome actors of the age.

896
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 3: Anyway. Mark Evigner, a.

897
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: Former assistant of Kirby's, recalls, quote Jack's wife Roz read

898
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: the article early this Sunday morning. It came out, woke

899
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: Jack up to read it. Jack phones stand at home

900
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 1: to wake him up and complain. Both men later recalled

901
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: that the collaboration was never the same after that day.

902
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: End quote, along with these kind of petty or not

903
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: so petty. If you're Jack Kirby injustices, Jack surely must

904
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: have noticed how the industry treated his contemporaries when they

905
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: tried to get paid. In nineteen sixty six, DC Comics

906
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: froze out Superman co creator Jerry Siegel after learning the

907
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:15,919
Speaker 1: artists plan to contest for the Kryptonians copyrights. Quote. DC

908
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: writing veterans such as Gardner, Fox, John Broom, Bill Finger,

909
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: co creator Batman, Arnold Drake, and Otto Binder had seen

910
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: their assignments dry up in what some believed was retaliation

911
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: for their lobbying for things like better pay and health insurance,

912
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: writes Jason Sachson. The nineteen seventy seventy nine volume of

913
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: American Comic Book Chronicles, Fingers example certainly must have raised

914
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: Kirby's alarm. Quote Finger had co created Batman with Bob Kane,

915
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: but he was always Kane's employee, reads American Comic Book Chronicles.

916
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: While Caine made millions from Batman, Finger scrape by financially,

917
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: Kirby naturally wanted to escape that fate. He wanted a

918
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: profit from the success that he helped build. Quite naturally,

919
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: quite fairly. Quote Jack's plots and designs were on TV shows,

920
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: his art was on toys, and he wasn't seeing a

921
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 1: nickel from any of it, writes Mark Evianner in his

922
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: biography of his former boss, Kirby, King of Comics in

923
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, after negotiations over a new contract with Marvel stalled,

924
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: and after two years of secretly preparing to do so,

925
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: Kirby made the fateful call informing Saneley that he was leaving.

926
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: Kirby's next stop was Marvel's main competitor, DC Comics. DC

927
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: trumpeted Kirby's arrival from the mountain top the word from

928
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: high is the great One is coming blaired DC's house ads.

929
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: A longtime fan of science fiction, Kirby followed his creative

930
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: moves to the farthest fringes of outer space. Quote you

931
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: would occasionally reach back and pick a science fiction paperback

932
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: up and riff through it to get an idea, Evianner

933
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: says in the two thousand and seven documentary Jack Kirby's

934
00:55:55,600 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: Storyteller that would generate an entire new concept somehow and quote.

935
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: Kirby's vision, which found its full expression by nineteen seventy one,

936
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: was collectively known as Kirby's Fourth World at DC Comics.

937
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: His most impactful creation for DC is truly the archvillain

938
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: New God dark Side. Dark Side, hailing from the planet Apocalypse,

939
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: is one of the most powerful beings in existence, and

940
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: he's driven by a fanatical obsession with the anti life equation,

941
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: with which dark Side hopes to enslave the entire universe.

942
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: Since twenty eleven's linewide reboot, The New fifty two, DC

943
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: has positioned dark Side as its universe's primary antagonist, and

944
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: the character recently made its DC cinematic universe debut in

945
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: Zack Snyder's Justice League aka The Snyder Cut. He is

946
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 1: DC's answer to the MCU's Thanos, which is an ironic twist,

947
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: as comics fans surely are yelling at me right now,

948
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: considering that Thanos was conspicuously modeled after some MTE say

949
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: shamelessly from dark Side. IGN has dark Side sixth on

950
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: its Top one hundred Comic book Villains countdown.

951
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 3: Jack Kirby Done it again.

952
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: Kirby's psychedelic Explosion was in perfect harmony with the pop

953
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: culture zeitgeist of the late sixties early seventies. In nineteen

954
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: sixty eight, Eric von Danikin's book Chariot of the Gods,

955
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: which posited that human technological development was influenced by visitors

956
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: from alien worlds, was a surprise bestseller. In spring of

957
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: that same year, Sanley Kubrick's adaptation of Arthur C. Clarke's

958
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey melted brains in

959
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: movie theaters throughout the world. One of my friend's moms

960
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 1: used to talk about how she tripped acid watching two

961
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: thousand and one A Space Odyssey and that she was

962
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: never the same, which is not a thing that she

963
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: should have been telling us anyway. In nineteen sixty nine,

964
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: Kurt Vonagets break through time travel anti war novelist slaughter

965
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: House five was published, as was Frank Herbert's sequel to Dune,

966
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: Dune Massage. Kirby's work at DC expanded on the visual

967
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: language of science fiction. It is incredible, it is powerful,

968
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: it is intricate, and it was met with a thunderous shrug.

969
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: Kirby's Fourth World had only slim connections to DC's ongoing continuity,

970
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: which was a point of criticism from fans at the time.

971
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: It met middling sales and very respectfully negative reviews, and

972
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: it was canceled after three years. Fast forward to nineteen

973
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: seventy five. At New York's Hotel Commodore, Stanley announces to

974
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: a rapturous Marvel con crowd during the Fantastic four panel

975
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: that Kirby was returning home. Back at Marvel, Jack had

976
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: complete creative freedom. He wrote his own stories, he edited them,

977
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: and of course he did his own pencil work. He

978
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: also had the leeway to select who inked his artwork,

979
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: who lettered it. Kirby can speak aqueously, steered clear of

980
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: the books and the characters that he collaborated on with Lee.

981
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: He took over Captain America, the character he co created

982
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: with Joe Simon. He did a ten issue adaptation to

983
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: two thousand and one Space Odyssey, He did Black Panther,

984
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: and he launched The Eternals. The Eternals ran for nineteen

985
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: issues from nineteen seventy six to nineteen seventy eight. In

986
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: the series kind of sums up this period of Kirby's career,

987
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: this kind of second act, this middle act. It is

988
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: bursting with unbelievable artwork and sci fi imagery. It contains

989
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: visionary panels that conveyed heady concepts much better than the

990
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: pedestrian story and forest of Wooden dialogue. Does Kirby seemingly eager,

991
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: not such as to throw off any kind of link

992
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: to Lee, but to prove in fact that he was

993
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: better than stan Lee.

994
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 3: Just lays in the words like fu and bricks.

995
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: Icarus posing as Ike Harris in Eternals number one and

996
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: apparently a human tourist who somehow just ends up tagging

997
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 1: along with an archaeologist and his daughter who are exploring

998
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: the Nascal lines in Peru. You know, just kind of

999
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 1: like by chance, is like, hey, I'm going to tagle

1000
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: on with you, and the archaeologist is like, yeah, sure,

1001
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 1: that's not weird at all.

1002
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 3: Come.

1003
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 1: Ike seemingly by accident, leads the archaeologist and his daughter

1004
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: to a chamber filled with a bunch of alien shit

1005
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: and staring at a display screen showing some area of

1006
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: outer space, Ike exclaims, quote.

1007
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 3: There they roam.

1008
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: There they live in this great reflector, which the gods

1009
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: left when they last departed. The devoted Inca people kept

1010
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: watch for their next arrival, but the gods never returned,

1011
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: and the Inca's vanished from history. Keep going, Ike, says

1012
01:00:58,520 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: the archaeologist.

1013
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 3: Tell us more, but first tell.

1014
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: Us who you really are.

1015
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 3: You're not really one.

1016
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: Of us, are you, says the archaeologist's daughter, and the

1017
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: narration box reads Ike Harris seems to project the silent

1018
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: power of the god chamber itself. Both Margo and her

1019
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: father realize that he's somehow part of the awesome truths

1020
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: unfolding here, smeare is nothing, says the archaeologist. We've got

1021
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 1: to know begin with your name. It's not Ike Harris,

1022
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: is it not? Exactly? This is the kind of writing

1023
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,479
Speaker 1: that is everywhere in the Eternals, and it's not good.

1024
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: And that's even judging on the scale of comic writing

1025
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: at the time. It's very stilted, awkward and not great.

1026
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: The cover of Eternals number two, which introduces the Celestials,

1027
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: reads quote more fantastic than Chariots of the Gods. Now,

1028
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: we don't know whether Kirby actually read Danakin's very, very

1029
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: weird book or whether he watched the nineteen seventy pseudo

1030
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: doctor Mentory film adaptation of Chariot of the Gods, but

1031
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 1: it's clear the book had a profound impact on the Eternals.

1032
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: As one would expect, Jack's art in Eternals is a

1033
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: tour de force. All of the kind of trademark Kirby's

1034
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: stuff is there. The dark light contrasts the power bomb

1035
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: splash pages, the characters and the vehicles that seem to

1036
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: burst out of the page. The story those, as we

1037
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: mentioned above, is just basically a massive exposition dump and

1038
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: so high concept that you basically need an oxygen tank

1039
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 1: to kind of like make any sense out of it.

1040
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: And the characters display none of the kind of grounded

1041
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: feet of clay traits that are invariably part of the

1042
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: best Marvel stories. This is this is the thing that

1043
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: made Marvel such a revolutionary pop culture force in comics

1044
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 1: at the time.

1045
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: You know, DC. It's it's an old critique, but it's

1046
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 3: one that holds true.

1047
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,919
Speaker 1: DC's characters are all gods you know, and aliens, where

1048
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 1: where as Marvel's characters.

1049
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 3: Are you know, human beings with human problems.

1050
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: Even the gods like Thor has to turn into a

1051
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 1: human being and he ends up having human problems and

1052
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: dating issues and things of the like. And that's all

1053
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: the best Marvel stories are like that. None of that

1054
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: is here in the internals, and the critical response was

1055
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: poor and the sales were poor. Within Marvel. Shockingly, Kirby's

1056
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: peers even mocked him. You know, here they are following

1057
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: in the path that he laid out, and this kind

1058
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: of like new generation of comics creator was you know,

1059
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 1: snickering that Kirby lost it.

1060
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 3: He was out of step with what was going on.

1061
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: Quote. The editorial staff up at Marvel had no respect

1062
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: for what Kirby was doing, Jim Starlin says in an

1063
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: interview in Comic Book Artists Collection, all these editors had

1064
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: things on the walls making fun of Jack's books. They'd

1065
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: cut out things saying stupidest comic of the year as

1066
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: brutal stuff. Additionally, Kirby's work on Captain America and Black

1067
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: Panther ignored the canon that had been established by the

1068
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: creators that preceded Kirby, which was a thing that annoyed

1069
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: comics fans and is still a critique that you'll read

1070
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: from comics fans today if they feel that once a

1071
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: new creative team takes over a book, there are invariably

1072
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: fans that go, this isn't what the character was previously,

1073
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: this is not what we established as a character. It's

1074
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: always a critique, and it was a particularly trenchant one

1075
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: for Kirby. By nineteen seventy seven, Archie Goodwin, Marvel's then

1076
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: editor intrief, tried to convince Kirby that he needed a

1077
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: dialogue punch up writer, you know, someone to help him

1078
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: make this stuff sing a little more, and Kirby said no.

1079
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: Captain America two fourteen cover data October seventy seven is

1080
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: usually mentioned as the last Captain America that Kirby did

1081
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: a few months later in January, the Eternals was canceled,

1082
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: and in nineteen seventy eight, fed up once again with

1083
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: life at Marvel Comics, Kirby decamped for the fatter paychecks

1084
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: and lighter workload in animation, accepting a position at Hannah Barbera.

1085
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: Though the nineteen seventies were a tough decade for Jack

1086
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: Kin Kirby, he ended the era with one of the

1087
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: more interesting footnotes in comics history. Forty two years ago

1088
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 1: this month, Iridian revolutionaries stormed the United States Embassy in Tehran,

1089
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: seizing diplomats and various US citizens who were inside the buildings.

1090
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 3: Unbeknownst to the.

1091
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: Burseoning revolutionary movement and other group of Americans were hiding

1092
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: nearby in the Canadian Embassy. May have seen the film Argo,

1093
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: which dramaticizes these events. A CIA team, using the cover

1094
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: of a film crew working on a movie adaptation of

1095
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 1: the Hugo Award winning science fiction novel Lord of Light

1096
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: managed to enter Iran and exfiltrate the Americans from the

1097
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: Canadian embassy using the cover of scouting locations for said film.

1098
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: The artist contracted by film producer Barry Geller to create

1099
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: the costumes and designs for A Lord of Light one.

1100
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: Jack Kirby up next, The Hive Mind. Welcome to the

1101
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 1: Hive Mind, where we dive deeper into a specific topic

1102
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: with the help of a guest panelist. Today, x ray

1103
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 1: Vision is pleased to welcome journalist and author Abraham Reaesman,

1104
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: whose book True Believer, The Rise and Fall of Stan

1105
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: Lee chronicles the life of the iconic Stan Lee, the

1106
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: spokesman essentially for Marvel Comics for many years. Released in

1107
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: February twenty twenty one, this book is available wherever you

1108
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: get books.

1109
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 3: Abraham, Welcome to the show.

1110
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 2: It's great to be here, Thank you so much.

1111
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: So. The eternals were created by Jack Kirby. The comic

1112
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 1: was drawn, written edited by Jack Kirby. Jack Kirby was

1113
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 1: able to pick the letter, the colorists, the inkor on

1114
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: the on this and this was you know, part of

1115
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: the deal that he forged after coming back from from

1116
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 1: leaving Marvel for DC Comics. The Marvel's main competitor. What

1117
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: were the issues that that that Jack was dealing with

1118
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: at the time.

1119
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 2: The career issues or his weird political.

1120
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 8: Beliefs, both of which played into what was going on

1121
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 8: with the eternals.

1122
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 1: Let's talk about let's talk about his his career issues

1123
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: as a creator in comics.

1124
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 3: You know, it's.

1125
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 2: Happy to do that.

1126
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 8: So the thumbmail version of a very complicated, fractal story

1127
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 8: is in the superhero comic book industry, there has never

1128
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 8: been a culture of creator ownership, or of creator unionization

1129
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 8: and collective bargaining. Creators as in the writers and artists

1130
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 8: and you know inker as all. That's kind of a

1131
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 8: dying industry because of digitization and colorists. All of these

1132
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 8: people they work as independent contractors. They're not staffers. They

1133
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 8: don't get insurance, they don't have any job security. They're

1134
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 8: paid to pittance. And this has been true throughout pretty

1135
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 8: much the entire history of comics. It was built on

1136
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 8: a very bad foundation. So flash forward to the sixties.

1137
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 8: You have Jack Kirby, this writer artist, operating at Marvel,

1138
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 8: and he's already famous in the comics industry. The nascent

1139
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 8: still somewhat like teenage comics industry. I guess was invented

1140
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 8: in the thirties, he'd already had a great deal of success.

1141
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 8: He was a writer, like I say, a writer and

1142
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:35,599
Speaker 8: an artist, which is crucial because Stan was just a writer.

1143
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 8: Stan did not not a draw I mean, you could

1144
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 8: draw a little doodle a little bit. But Jack therefore

1145
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 8: was sort of the by really, by any reasonable estimation,

1146
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 8: this shouldn't be a controversial point.

1147
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 2: Jack was the main creative engine of early Marvel.

1148
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 8: I just I want to emphasize that, Like, these were

1149
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 8: weird guys with weird ideas, and none got weirder than Jack,

1150
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 8: and that really produced some great work. But also it

1151
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 8: produced the Eternals, which is not a good comic. It's beautiful,

1152
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 8: but like as a comic, it's.

1153
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 2: Not an interesting story. I don't know, I think.

1154
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: So let's be fair to Jack. It's pretty impenetrable and

1155
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: with stilted, super weird dialogue. You know, for whatever the

1156
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: relationship between Jack and Stan was, it's clear that what

1157
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: Stan added to it was a certain kind of textual dialogues,

1158
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: script writing polish that Jack.

1159
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:35,640
Speaker 3: Just didn't have.

1160
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the issue of credit and the issue

1161
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: of the creators creators trying to benefit from the success

1162
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 1: creations within comics. Now, this is a this is a

1163
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: fraught space in any kind of creative space, whether you're

1164
01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 1: writing whatever, but in comics it's particularly as a fringe

1165
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 1: industry for most of its life, in which the big

1166
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 1: money only came in very recently, at a time when

1167
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: creators basically had no leverage. It's a space where union

1168
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: is we're only just now seeing the unionization, uh kind

1169
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,560
Speaker 1: of momentum that is sweeping a lot of other industries

1170
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 1: happening comics with the recent unionization. It was it was

1171
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:31,879
Speaker 1: it was last week, which is in a way ironic

1172
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: because the image itself was you know, created by disaffected

1173
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: creators who were looking to more adequately.

1174
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 3: Better from the things.

1175
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:43,600
Speaker 1: And so tell me, tell me a little bit about

1176
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: these kind of like frustrated efforts over the years for

1177
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 1: creators within this industry trying to somehow, you know, make

1178
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: money off the things that they had created.

1179
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's it's an eternal struggle. You go back in

1180
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 8: the history of comics. Jeremy Douber is just putting out

1181
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 8: a book called American Comics, a History, which most of

1182
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 8: its stuff I already know, but it's an excellent like

1183
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 8: introductory text for people who don't know the history of

1184
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 8: American comics. And you should know the history of comics

1185
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 8: because it ended up being very consequential and you get

1186
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 8: all these little granular stories about people being again from

1187
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 8: the very beginning, from dawn of comics and dawn of

1188
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 8: superhero comics.

1189
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,440
Speaker 2: With Superman, you have creators getting exploited.

1190
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 1: Well, I think you've hit on something that's important, which

1191
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: is whether it's songwriting, you know, like the film industry,

1192
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 1: popular music, is writing for magazines, whatever, any creative space.

1193
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:45,839
Speaker 1: There is a lot of exploitation of creators that was happening,

1194
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: and in that sense, comics was really no different.

1195
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 2: It was no different.

1196
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 1: But it's just that there's billions of dollars in.

1197
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 8: Yes, yes, and also but it's not just that it's

1198
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 8: no different, it's worse in some ways.

1199
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 2: The number one reason being work for hire.

1200
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 6: Like.

1201
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 2: It's insane they work for hire. And lack of unionization.

1202
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:07,679
Speaker 2: Those are the two things.

1203
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 8: You know, you talk about screenwriting, and lord knows, screenwriters

1204
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 8: are very much an abused class in a lot of ways.

1205
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 2: I am not please, I'm not diminishing that at least.

1206
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:20,680
Speaker 8: There's a WGA comics, comics doesn't have you have no

1207
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:22,799
Speaker 8: shot at getting unionized in comics.

1208
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 2: Now there is this.

1209
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 8: Previously you had no shot in getting unionized in comics.

1210
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 8: Now we have just in the past few days, this

1211
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 8: initial effort on the behalf of staffers, which means not creators.

1212
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 2: These are people who work at on staff at you.

1213
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 1: Not the pencilers, not the right Yes, that would be right.

1214
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 8: Hopefully you know, that might be something that we see

1215
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 8: in the future, but right now it's but it's a

1216
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 8: very important start because the comics industry is basically no

1217
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 8: experience with any kind of union, whether it's for you know,

1218
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 8: editorial staffers or the.

1219
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 2: People creating the stuff.

1220
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 8: And I don't know where it's gonna go, but I'm

1221
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 8: watching it with great interest because, yeah, there have been

1222
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 8: these attempts in the past, I mean, most notably Neil Adams,

1223
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 8: this legendary right a ACBA. Yes he started ABA, which

1224
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 8: was the well he he didn't dig. Giardano and Stan

1225
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 8: Lee created the Academy of Comic Book Arts and Sciences

1226
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 8: in nineteen sixty nine, and Stan's original idea, it was

1227
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 8: a classic stand take on it was.

1228
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 2: This is a hard to have an awards show. We

1229
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 2: want to have an awards show.

1230
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 3: That was it.

1231
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 8: He wanted to have a society so they could have

1232
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 8: the Oscars for comics every year. And he wanted to

1233
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:35,839
Speaker 8: be the president of the organization, which is crazy because

1234
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 8: as it was getting formulated, like it became clear that

1235
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,520
Speaker 8: like if the bosses are the head of the organization,

1236
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 8: then like, well the point was. Neil Adams decided he

1237
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 8: wanted to run as well, and Stan was like, we

1238
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 8: should run together, and Neil said, but you're not like

1239
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 8: a workwriter, you know, like the point here is supposed

1240
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 8: to be her management. What I would like this to

1241
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 8: be is an actual like coalition of people, which was

1242
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 8: how it was getting pitched. It's just that Stan in

1243
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 8: his head knew all he wanted was was the org

1244
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 8: show ceremony. So at one of the first meetings, not

1245
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 8: an ords show, but one of the first meetings of

1246
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:13,719
Speaker 8: the ACBA, according to Stan, Neil gets up and starts

1247
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 8: or and stands telling of it. Neil gets up and

1248
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,600
Speaker 8: starts talking about how creators are being abused and we

1249
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 8: should form a union. And Stan was furious and was like,

1250
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 8: that's not what this is for, Like, that's not why

1251
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 8: we're doing this, and sure enough, there are a bunch

1252
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 8: of other instances. I mean, just a few years later,

1253
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 8: you have when work for hires starts to be formalized

1254
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:37,759
Speaker 8: in national law with this Copyright Act of nineteen seventy

1255
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 8: six that comes into fact in nineteen seventy eight, You

1256
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 8: all of a sudden have all these companies scrambling to

1257
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 8: come up with paperwork where people are retroactively signing away

1258
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 8: all of their rights and then you know, signing away

1259
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 8: any future rights. And Neil Adams writes, this takes the

1260
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 8: contract that you were supposed to sign, paints on it.

1261
01:14:57,920 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 2: I can't rear the exact phrase. It was just a

1262
01:14:59,320 --> 01:14:59,719
Speaker 2: few words.

1263
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:01,679
Speaker 8: It was like, do not sign this, You'll be signing

1264
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 8: your life away, meeting address, you know time.

1265
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:07,639
Speaker 2: And it was all at Adams's studio.

1266
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 8: All these comics creators meet at the studio and they're

1267
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 8: like fired up, and it's a lot of like.

1268
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 2: We're gonna go all the way on this one. We're

1269
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 2: taking these screw you know, these screw jobs down.

1270
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 8: And then all that had to happen was, well, Stan

1271
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 8: did nothing for one thing. He just stood off on

1272
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 8: the sidelines. And then Jim Shooter the e C informed

1273
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 8: everyone that if you were to.

1274
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 1: A Titanic, Titanic figure who is also extremely divisive, was

1275
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 1: once burned an effigy by his own workers.

1276
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1277
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 1: No, I loved character who is also very important in

1278
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 1: the evolution of the comic, the.

1279
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 8: Comic and a lot of other things. But I don't

1280
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 8: remember where I was going with all of this. But

1281
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 8: it's I feel like I can go down any tangent

1282
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 8: when I talk about all this, But.

1283
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 3: Well, I we should.

1284
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 1: I should say that the thing that was really interesting

1285
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:57,400
Speaker 1: to me about the ACBA and why why it failed

1286
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 1: clearly as a unionization effort, is that there was no

1287
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:05,920
Speaker 1: even amongst you know, like a militant guy like Adams,

1288
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:06,759
Speaker 1: who was who.

1289
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 3: Really wanted to push for this these kind of protections.

1290
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: There was not a broad agreement on who would be

1291
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 1: covered by this, who would be allowed do we let

1292
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 1: the colorist in? Who was in on this? And there

1293
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: was there was no agreement on that. And where I

1294
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:26,280
Speaker 1: hope we go with, you know, with this current movement

1295
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 1: now is if we start drawing lines, it feels like

1296
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 1: we lose, right.

1297
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, I'm not a union expert.

1298
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: Same here, but it feels like, you know, the way

1299
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 1: it failed in the past was they tried to draw

1300
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 1: a line and said, Okay, these people are not creators

1301
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: and these.

1302
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 8: People are each other, and then all of a sudden,

1303
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 8: it's nothing.

1304
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, my hope is that it would be

1305
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 2: a broad ten.

1306
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 8: I mean, I was part of the unionization drive at

1307
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 8: New York Magazine when I was still on staff there.

1308
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 2: I didn't lead it.

1309
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 8: I'm not going to take more credit than I deserve,

1310
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 8: but I did the secret networking to go talk to

1311
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,719
Speaker 8: people and get them on board and get them in touch.

1312
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 2: With the reps.

1313
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 8: Went to a bunch of meetings, and you know, it's

1314
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 8: a real problem trying to figure out who gets covered

1315
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 8: in the bargaining unit. And the companies that you're trying

1316
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 8: to unionize will do everything they can to try to

1317
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 8: confuse people about who can count for the bargaining unit,

1318
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 8: just to keep some people from thinking, oh, well, you know,

1319
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 8: keep them thinking this doesn't apply to me. But yeah,

1320
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:25,879
Speaker 8: with comics it's really hard for a lot of reasons,

1321
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,640
Speaker 8: As is true of any industry that is built on

1322
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 8: freelance labor that is not conducted in a centralized place.

1323
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 8: It's extremely difficult to get these people comments creators to

1324
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 8: stop fighting with each other for these few slots, and

1325
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 8: I don't I don't have a good solution to that.

1326
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:46,719
Speaker 8: I'm just glad to see that somebody's even bothering to try,

1327
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,439
Speaker 8: and I would be following it very closely. I'm I'm,

1328
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:53,479
Speaker 8: I'm working on trying to get some reporting done on it,

1329
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 8: but I'm like swamped with my Vince McMahon book. You

1330
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 8: want to talk about labor rights problems, wrestling makes commic

1331
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 8: look like a socialist utopia.

1332
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 1: Abe, thank you so much for joining us. I you

1333
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 1: know I've read your stuff for years, big fan. Where

1334
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:12,599
Speaker 1: can we Where can we get more of of where

1335
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 1: you're writing, whatever you're working on.

1336
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 8: Next, go to Abraham Reisman dot com. Your one stop

1337
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 8: shop for all things Abraham Reesman. It's I before E.

1338
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:22,640
Speaker 8: But if you misspell it with EI, I have that

1339
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 8: domain registered too, and it'll redirect you. If you want

1340
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,200
Speaker 8: to follow me on Twitter, That's where I spend most

1341
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 8: of my day, and that.

1342
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 2: Is at Abraham Joseph.

1343
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 3: Abe, thank you so much.

1344
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1345
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 3: Up Next, Endgame.

1346
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: We're in the endgame now, baby, it is inevitable, and

1347
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 1: today we're playing another round of assembly required, in which

1348
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 1: Rosie and I will be randomly assigned a mission uh

1349
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: and then we have to assemble our character, our team

1350
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 1: to accomplish that mission. Today we are going to be

1351
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 1: picking characters from the eternals, and our producers have prepared

1352
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 1: the mission for us.

1353
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:07,600
Speaker 3: What is the mission, Christopher?

1354
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 2: The mission this week is pick your favorite eternal for

1355
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:12,760
Speaker 2: the best possible Hinge match A.

1356
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 3: Match on Hinge. A match on Hinge.

1357
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 1: Hinge the dating platform that uses your Facebook network to

1358
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 1: match you with people who they hope can can foster

1359
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 1: a love match. This has been a free promotion for Hinge.

1360
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 1: You're not a sponsor of this podcast.

1361
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,320
Speaker 5: I don't have Facebook, which is why I don't know.

1362
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 1: What hin I don't have. I don't have it either.

1363
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 1: Well I know who I would, I know people. I

1364
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 1: know people who have had some success on Hinge.

1365
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 3: And so we're going to use it now. Rosie, would

1366
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 3: you like to go first?

1367
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 1: Who would like is your is the ideal eternal to

1368
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: Hinge match with is Gilgamesh?

1369
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:58,679
Speaker 6: Not only Isnley Donley is handsome, strong, iconic, one hundred

1370
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 6: plus movie Korean star icon, but Gilgamesh he cooks pies,

1371
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:06,880
Speaker 6: He has a cute, delightful has a cute, delightful little

1372
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 6: apron that he wears. I want to see the fanat

1373
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 6: of that so much, with like the blushing cheeks and

1374
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 6: the apron and the pie. He makes delicious food. He

1375
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 6: makes his own meat. He makes it out of his spit.

1376
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 6: But sure, maybe you an. I think Gilgamesh is the one.

1377
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:21,720
Speaker 6: I love him.

1378
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 1: Rip Gilgamesh, man, I gotta say so.

1379
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 3: That's a great pick.

1380
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: And obviously the eternals are not equally quality. Hinge matches

1381
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:45,719
Speaker 1: for various reasons. Gilgamesh is great. You know, Kingo is good, funny,

1382
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 1: Drewig scary, Like, I don't know that I would want

1383
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: to go on a date with him. If you're Marcary McCary,

1384
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 1: great sprite obvious problems there.

1385
01:20:57,320 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 5: She's a child, don't.

1386
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:01,799
Speaker 1: She's a child. She's a yes, I know, and anybody

1387
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:03,679
Speaker 1: out there is like, yeah, but she's actually like seven

1388
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 1: thousand you just stop it, stop it right now.

1389
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,680
Speaker 5: I don't her in my shipping lineup because she is

1390
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 5: a child.

1391
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: Sina is working through some mental health issues and I

1392
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: want to make and so I think it could be rocky.

1393
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:17,640
Speaker 6: I like it.

1394
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 5: You're going for consent there, You're like, I want to make.

1395
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,160
Speaker 1: Sure that we're all on the up and up. Circe

1396
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:26,720
Speaker 1: would be fine. Ajac deceased and was keeping a lot

1397
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:28,840
Speaker 1: of secrets from everybody, So I don't know if we

1398
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 1: want to go there. I am going to say, gosh, Now,

1399
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 1: let me ask you this. If I pick Fastos, does

1400
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 1: that mean I've broken up a marriage?

1401
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 5: No?

1402
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 6: No, this is this is a hypothetical because I would

1403
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 6: not break up yoga mash and tena, So this is

1404
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 6: a hypothetical if the Atitos were single.

1405
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 5: I think Fastos is a good choice.

1406
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna pick Fastos because number one monogamy, Like,

1407
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 1: if you're on Hinge, you're looking You're not looking for

1408
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: something quick, You're looking for something lasting. Fasts I think

1409
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,639
Speaker 1: showed us through his through his actions in this movie

1410
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,599
Speaker 1: that he's looking for something real. He's got a beautiful

1411
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 1: family and and a beautiful relationship with his husband.

1412
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 3: He did build the the atom bomb.

1413
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:15,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, did he or did he just seemed I

1414
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 1: seemed pretty broken. I feel like he just I feel

1415
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:20,200
Speaker 1: like he just like this.

1416
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 6: He helped humans with technology and knew that humans was dumb.

1417
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 5: So if he didn't help them.

1418
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:26,280
Speaker 6: It would have been they wouldn't.

1419
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 5: Have been able to create.

1420
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 3: I would argue it this way one.

1421
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:33,120
Speaker 9: He seemed very broken up about it, upset. He was

1422
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 9: actually like at ground zero, like he was there. He

1423
01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 9: was in the ruins of Erosia.

1424
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 6: Okay, so you on hinds, you want to match with

1425
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:45,679
Speaker 6: the guy who split the arm, that's your open arms.

1426
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 1: He feels bad about it again a long time ago.

1427
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 3: He does different.

1428
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 6: He's a high a healthy relationship in the MCU that

1429
01:22:58,080 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 6: we've seen so far.

1430
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:02,040
Speaker 5: So you know what say, even with the full crime,

1431
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:03,599
Speaker 5: So yeah.

1432
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 10: Mass murderer arguably, but but you know, like again, Tony

1433
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 10: Stark traffic weapons for years, gave nature, was friends, was

1434
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 10: very close friends with Ulysses Claw for reasons that are

1435
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:21,639
Speaker 10: probably best not explored.

1436
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:24,360
Speaker 3: And child who is a wonderful guy.

1437
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 5: Love fast, fast, Well done, Tim.

1438
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:28,720
Speaker 1: That's it for the endgame. Let us know who you

1439
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:32,679
Speaker 1: think won this week's game. Hit us at hashtag XRVN game.

1440
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 1: Well listen Rosie as the number one Eternal's lover in

1441
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:42,799
Speaker 1: the world. It was delightful to bathe in the warmth

1442
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:44,639
Speaker 1: of your love for this movie.

1443
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:45,599
Speaker 6: Wow.

1444
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: Thank you for letting us into your perspective on the movie.

1445
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 1: Whether people agree with it or not, it was useful

1446
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 1: and it was always a pleasure.

1447
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:56,480
Speaker 3: Where can we find you next?

1448
01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.

1449
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:00,200
Speaker 6: If you want to read more about my eternal I

1450
01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 6: reviewed Journal's fanatists. I've written many, many Internals theories. A

1451
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 6: lot of what we touched on here, hit upnourdice dot com.

1452
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it.

1453
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 6: If you want to read a spooky comic, I know

1454
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 6: it's kind of where over Spooky season Now. I wrote

1455
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 6: a graphic novel called The Hornted High Tops with this

1456
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:15,280
Speaker 6: amazing artist called Frambueno.

1457
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:18,760
Speaker 5: That's out now. So they're just a ton of cool stuff.

1458
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 6: But yeah, if you if you like this conversation you

1459
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 6: want to know more about these theories, definitely check out

1460
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 6: Notice because that's where all my pieces are maybe and

1461
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 6: there's like ten of them already and the movie just

1462
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:27,799
Speaker 6: came out.

1463
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 1: Bump bump, bump, bump, bump bump. Dun Dun Dun, Dun,

1464
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:34,120
Speaker 1: Dun Dun.

1465
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 3: Rosie Knight.

1466
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: Big thanks to Rosie Knight and Abriesman for joining us

1467
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 1: on another episode of X ray Vision. Please join us

1468
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,839
Speaker 1: again every Wednesday for your weekly dose of the deepest dives.

1469
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:47,880
Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about the stuff that

1470
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 1: we talk about in each episode. To find out the

1471
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 1: particular comics that we talked about, references, et cetera, check

1472
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 1: out the show notes on our website. You can find

1473
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: a full list of last week's comics corner picks on

1474
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 1: the x ray page of Crooked Media's website. And don't forget,

1475
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 1: Please please don't make me use my Druig powers on you.

1476
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: Five stars only. If it's not five stars, if it's

1477
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:13,880
Speaker 1: no stars, five star reviews only, Thank you very much.

1478
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show

1479
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 1: is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show

1480
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 1: is executive produced by myself and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Ruston

1481
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 1: and Carlton Gillespie are our consulting producers that are editing

1482
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:29,600
Speaker 1: and sound design is by Facili's Photopoulos. Thank you to

1483
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:31,000
Speaker 1: Brian Vasquez for our theme.

1484
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:32,559
Speaker 3: See you next time.