1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Today on the bright side, I hope you're ready to 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: get fired up, because today on the bright side, Shannon 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: Watts is here after founding one of the most influential 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: grassroots movements in the country. She's letting us in on 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: our biggest secret that purpose doesn't have to come all 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: at once, and that it's never too late to do 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: something that matters. She's got the match, the message, and 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: the momentum to help us all light that spark and 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: go after everything we want in life. 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: Middle aged women in my mom's generation were expected to 11 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: just sort of fade away and be invisible in their 12 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: forties and beyond. I just don't want any woman to 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: get to the end of their life and feel like 14 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: they didn't burn. 15 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: I'm simone voice, and this is the bright side from 16 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. There can be a lot of pressure to 17 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: figure out your life early. We celebrate the overnight successes. 18 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: The thirty under thirty lists the youngest to ever do 19 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: such and such. It just seems like the world is 20 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 1: obsessed with the world who's figured it all out by 21 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: this imaginary expiration date. Right, Well, let me tell you 22 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: a little bit about Shannon Watts, our guest today. She 23 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: found the love of her life. At thirty seven, She 24 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: started her massively influential grassroots movement, Mom's Demand Action. At 25 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: forty one, She climbed Mount Kilimanjaro at forty five, She 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: started grad school at fifty, and she wrote her second book, 27 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: Fired Up, at fifty four. This new book, Fired Up, 28 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come 29 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: Alive at Any Age, is part memoir and part invitation 30 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: to rethink what your prime really looks like. You probably 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: already know Shannon as the founder of Mom's Demand Action. 32 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: It's one of the largest grassroots movement on gun safety 33 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: in the history of this country. And yes, this conversation 34 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: comes during Gun Safety Awareness Month. But today's episode isn't 35 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: about partisan politics. It's about passion. It is about deciding 36 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: to show up in your life even when it's absolutely terrifying. 37 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: It's about listening to that little internal spark and trusting 38 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: that it's not too late. I've always been a go getter. 39 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: I talk about ambition a lot on this show, and 40 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: I have felt fire in my life, but I admit 41 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: that I do have moments sometimes even very recently, where 42 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: I feel like it has been hard for me to 43 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: find my spark. That's why I was so relieved to 44 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: come across this book and talk with Shannon. And let 45 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: me tell you, after this conversation, I certainly do not 46 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: have it all figured out, but I definitely feel that 47 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: spark coming alive again, and at the very least I 48 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: feel the drive to go out there and find it. 49 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: So get ready to get fired Up, y'all. Here's my 50 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: conversation with Shannon Watts. Shannon Watts, Welcome to the bright Side. 51 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I'm so thrilled 52 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 2: to be here. 53 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: I am so thrilled to have you because I absolutely 54 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: love your book, Fired Up. This is your third book, 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: because you've already written extensively about your work leading the 56 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: largest women led nonprofit in the nation, Mom's Demand Action. 57 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: So with this book, what's the message that you had 58 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: to get down on the page and why? 59 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: Now you know, I stepped back from Mom's Demand Action 60 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three after eleven years of being a 61 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: full time volunteer, and I thought I'll take a break, 62 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 2: and instead what happened was I was on my treadmill 63 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: one night and my phone starts ringing. I look down 64 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: and it says Maria Shreiver, and so of course I 65 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 2: jumped off the treadmill and answered that call, and she said, look, 66 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: I have a book imprint. I want you to write 67 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: something for me. And I asked her, you know what about? 68 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: And she said, what you have learned about working with 69 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: women in your career and in activism. I really wanted 70 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: to boil it down to what I had seen hold 71 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: women back, whether it was in their personal lives, their 72 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: professional lives, their political lives. Over and over again, it 73 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: was that women are taught to fulfill their obligations and 74 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: men are taught to fulfill their desires. And so I 75 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: want women to think differently. I want them to have 76 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: always at the top of their mind this question of 77 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: what do I want? And that's really the crux of 78 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: this book. 79 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: I love the topic of desire because it's honestly not 80 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: something that I had really taken the time to think 81 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: about until I reached my thirties. I want to get 82 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: to desire later, and I want to start with your 83 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: personal story, because in the first chapter of this book, 84 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: you're candidate about the fact that you were so unhappy 85 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: in your first marriage that it actually manifested in physical, 86 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: physiological symptoms that you actually broke out into a full 87 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: body Eggsamma rash. Is that kind of where this story 88 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: started for you, this story of becoming fired up? 89 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: It? Did you know? I found myself in my late thirties. 90 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: I was in a marriage that didn't fulfill me. I 91 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: was in a career that didn't fulfill me. I was 92 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 2: a very young mom of three kids at the time, 93 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: and I was sort of an autopilot. I just had 94 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 2: so many obligations and so many shoulds in my life 95 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: that I wasn't able to think about what it would 96 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: be that would light me up. And I think even 97 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 2: when we hear those things, they can trigger feelings of 98 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: guilt or shame inside us, like who are we to 99 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 2: ask ourselves those things? It seems selfish? And it is 100 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: what society has taught us, right, it is the way 101 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: the system is set up. You know what would happen 102 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 2: if women thought more about their desires. Institutions would topple, 103 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: governments would fail, family systems would fall apart. Right, it 104 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: all is set up in this way for us to 105 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: maybe even believe that our obligations are in fact our desires. 106 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: And so for me, it was the realization that I 107 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 2: needed to get out of my marriage, I needed to 108 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 2: get out of my career, and not really knowing what 109 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: to do, and that is how I ended up in 110 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: the emergency room. You know, exema doesn't sound that serious, 111 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: but when I say I was covered head to toe 112 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: and exema that I could not get to go away, 113 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: I mean it prevents you from focusing during the day 114 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 2: and being a good parent. It keeps you from sleeping 115 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: at night. And this doctor just sort of, you know, 116 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: did a mind meld with me. He was talking to 117 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: me about the stressors in my life, and the more 118 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: I spoke, the more I realized I was at a crossroads, 119 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,799 Speaker 2: and I just began to journal my way out of 120 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: these feelings that I was experiencing. That journal ended up 121 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 2: being a roadmap to help me figure out what I 122 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: call the Fire formula, and fire is very much the 123 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 2: metaphor of this book, because living on fire is living 124 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: in a way that you're constantly looking at two different things. 125 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: What is holding me back and what is calling me? 126 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 2: And this formula that I have learned and I have 127 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,679 Speaker 2: seen play out with thousands and thousands of other women 128 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 2: through Moms to Men action is being able to identify 129 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: your abilities, your values, and your desires, and when those 130 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: things are married, it's like alchemy. That's how I felt 131 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 2: when I started Mom's to Man Action and when I 132 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 2: was leading it. And I really want women to realize 133 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: that we can prioritize our desires over our obligations. 134 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: Were you thinking of someone in your life in particular 135 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: when you wrote this book? Who? Did you write it for? 136 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: The middle aged women that I had worked with who 137 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: would come into Mom's to Men Action, And often it 138 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: was because their child had had to endure a lockdown drill. 139 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: You know, middle aged women in my mom's generation were 140 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,679 Speaker 2: expected to just sort of fade away in their forties 141 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: and beyond, and they were so shaken by that experience 142 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: that there could be a shooting in their child's school 143 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: that they decided they had to get off the sidelines. 144 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: And these were women from all walks of life, with 145 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: a whole different variety of backgrounds and skills. And you know, 146 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: I'll just give you an example. It could be a 147 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: woman who was an accountant and she became a Mom's 148 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: Man Action data lead and when she was surrounded and 149 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: uplifted and supported by hundreds of other women who saw 150 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 2: her values her abilities, her desires. Then she could really 151 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 2: become fully who she was. And sometimes that meant running 152 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: for office. Sometimes that meant asking for promotion, getting out 153 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: of a difficult, problematic relationship. That was the woman that 154 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: I was talking to to say, you don't have to 155 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: cross all the tea's and all the eyes before you 156 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: try to start a fire in your life. But what 157 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: I've learned, and you know, I teach a lot of 158 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: college classes, I will have young women come up to 159 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: me and say, I'm on this path and I don't 160 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: know if it's right for me. Or I will have 161 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: young moms say to me, I want to do something different, 162 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: but I don't know what to do because I'm so overwhelmed. 163 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: Even if I was thinking of a woman like me 164 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 2: who found herself feeling like she was sort of I 165 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 2: met in her life, you know, in my mid thirties 166 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: and forties, I think it's for everyone. 167 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you mentioned that idea that young 168 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: women are kind of questioning the path that they're on, 169 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: because I was just talking to a friend of mine 170 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: who's a therapist in New York and she's been working 171 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: with a lot of young women in their twenties even 172 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: and maybe early thirties who were saying, you know, I'm 173 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: on this path and I'm just realizing life isn't what 174 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be. Or I'm in 175 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: this marriage and I I have the kids, and I 176 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: have the house, and gosh, life isn't what I thought 177 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: it was going to be. What are the circumstances or 178 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: the beliefs that you think we buy into that get 179 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: us to that point again? 180 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: The system is set up for us to have these 181 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 2: expectations of ourselves. And we don't fear our fire because 182 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: we're weak. It's because we're wise. You know, we know 183 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: that it is going to be difficult, that we will 184 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: experience blowback when we live differently. I give this example 185 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: in the book because I doubt anyone will experience the 186 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: same kind of blowback that I did when I started 187 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: Mom's de man action. You know, I immediately started receiving threats 188 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: of death and sexual violence to me and to my kids. 189 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: And I tell the story of seeing that there were 190 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 2: people driving slowly by my home and I called the 191 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: local police department because I wanted them just to keep 192 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: an eye on the neighborhood. And the officer said to me, well, ma'am, 193 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: that's what you get when you mess with the Second Amendment. 194 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: And I knew in that moment that I was either 195 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: going to back down or double down. And what I 196 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: realized is if I lose my children, I have nothing 197 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: left to lose. And so I decided I would double down. 198 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: And I think that we have such a fear again, 199 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 2: the guilt and shame that can get triggered when we 200 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: decide to live differently. I call these in the book extinguishers. 201 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: All the behaviors that go along with that. Whether it's 202 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: the desire to disappear, or becoming a perfectionist, or a 203 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 2: fear of failure. They're all these standards that we hold 204 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: ourselves too, and it gets in the way of again 205 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: asking ourselves constantly, what is it that I want. 206 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: I really liked that part in your book where you 207 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: talk about falling into the trap of purpose anxiety, this 208 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: idea that we are supposed to be chasing a specific purpose, 209 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: perhaps one that was laid out for us, that we 210 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: don't even want, instead of actually living on purpose. What 211 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: is the difference there? 212 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 2: They're what I call false fires. We have bought into 213 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 2: this idea that somehow if we pursue happiness or busyness. 214 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: I'm incredibly guilty of this. I spent a lot of 215 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: my life really busy and producing nothing. Or if we 216 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: find a purpose that we will ultimately feel fulfilled. I mean, 217 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: those are lifelong journeys that may be fruitless. You know, 218 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: all of those things are somewhat ephemeral. And this idea 219 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 2: we were born and we have this one purpose, and 220 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 2: if we don't figure it out and we don't bring 221 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 2: it to completion, that we have failed somehow. I mean, 222 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 2: that's an incredible amount of pressure. As you said, quoting 223 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: me from the book, Are we living for a purpose 224 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 2: or on purpose? I think it is better if we 225 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 2: look at this as fulfillment. And that's what I consider 226 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 2: a fire. Yes, I led Mom's Demand Action for eleven years, 227 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: but I don't want that to be my whole life. 228 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 2: There's so much more that I want to do, and 229 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: so that is why I step back after eleven years. 230 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: And this book is the fire after that, and there'll 231 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: be something after that. So I think looking at it 232 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: as fulfillment and not feeling like it's this huge, amorphous 233 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: thing that we have to achieve takes a lot of pressure. 234 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: Off well. 235 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: I also love how freeing it was to read that 236 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: your fire, your passion, even your desires can shift over 237 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: time time I've often had a hard time allowing myself 238 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: to do that. How do we give ourselves permission to 239 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: create space for evolving desires. 240 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 2: It was really in twenty twenty two when I was 241 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: in the Rose Garden and President Biden signed the first 242 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: bipartisan federal gun safety legislation and a generation to pass 243 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 2: that I felt. You can call it an inner knowing 244 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: or a voice, but I just knew that it was 245 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: the bookend to my activism and that I needed to 246 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 2: hand the torch over so to speak to the next 247 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: leader and move on to something else. And what I 248 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: really liked about the way the book turned out is 249 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 2: that it is full of exercises, and it is full 250 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: of journal prompts, and it is also part of I 251 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: have something called Buyer Starter University, where in a community 252 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: of hundreds of other women, we can practice these things. 253 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 2: Because when you don't have a lot of power, you 254 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: do want to hold on to it and it can 255 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: become your idea identity, but it restricts you from doing 256 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 2: and trying other things. 257 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: More from Shannon watts after this shortbreak. So in order 258 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: to allow ourselves to try other things, you have created 259 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: this roadmap called the Fire formula, and I want to 260 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: break that down. So fire is this metaphor that courses 261 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: through this book, and I really had never thought about 262 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: feminine power through that lens before. So I love the 263 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: way that you present it because you talk about the purification, 264 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: the rebirth, the renewal that fire brings and how we 265 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: can have a taste of that in our own lives 266 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: through these various exercises. And this formula that you've created 267 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: is broken down into three distinct layers. Let's start with desires. 268 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,119 Speaker 1: I didn't even realize there are different types of desires, 269 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: but you actually say there are different ways that we 270 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: can paint desire. What does that look like? 271 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 2: Often when we're talking about desire and women, it has 272 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: a sexual kind of If you look at the fire triangle, right, 273 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: we all learned in eighth grade, like what does it 274 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: take to create a fire? And it takes fuel, oxygen 275 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: and heat, And so if you substitute that for you know, values, 276 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: abilities and desires, then it's the same thing. Right, they 277 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: come together and it creates a fire and the desire 278 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: piece of it, I think is the most important piece. 279 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: You know, we all have dormant desires, wants, needs, and 280 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: those can be personal, they can be political, they can 281 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: be professional. But I think that women have to get 282 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: more comfortable with this idea of desire and the fact 283 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 2: that we are allowed to have them and we are 284 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: allowed to act on them. And it is kind of incremental, 285 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: like taking baby steps, and the book really walks people 286 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: through how do I figure out what I want, what 287 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: my desires are, how do I act on them, and 288 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: how do I understand that it will be a difficult, 289 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: maybe even arduous process and keep going until I get 290 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: through the other side. Again, the obligations, the shoulds in 291 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: our lives often override the feelings of desire, and it 292 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: really does take paying attention to it and writing about 293 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: it and discussing it and thinking about it and always 294 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: keeping it front of mind. And I think that's the 295 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: important part of this book, right. You could read it 296 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: every year and maybe your desire would be different. People 297 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 2: so often say to me, oh, it must be so 298 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: wonderful to know what your life's work is, thinking that 299 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: it was gun violence prevention, and what I realized during 300 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: my time as an activism wasn't that, you know, I 301 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 2: was desirous of being an activist, although it certainly lit 302 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: me up for a long time. But I'm really passionate 303 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: about summoning the audacity of other women and that can 304 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: come in many forms, and that can last through my 305 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 2: whole lifetime. It doesn't have to just be as the 306 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: leader of mom's demand action. So who I was in 307 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: twenty twelve when I had young kids and I started 308 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 2: an organization as much different than who I am as 309 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: a fifty four year old woman who has written this book. 310 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 2: And it's much different than who I will be, you know, 311 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 2: after this book comes out and whatever comes next, And 312 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 2: it is really about at the end of the day, 313 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: living from the inside out and not the outside in. 314 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: Next up in this fire formula is values. Is it 315 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: fair to say that while desires change, values stay the same. 316 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: The values are really about what you hold dear. What 317 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 2: is your north star when you are deciding to engage 318 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: in a project or maybe to volunteer, or the job 319 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 2: that you're choosing, or the partner the friends that you're choosing. 320 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: It is an important part of the triangle because when 321 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: they all come together, that's how you start a fire, 322 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 2: and so to know where you are in your life 323 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: right now, what is important to you, What things do 324 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 2: you hold dear that will guide you toward whatever your 325 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: fire should be. But also, just as importantly your people. 326 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 2: You know, that is a big part of building a fire, 327 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 2: which is creating a community that will support you. And 328 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: it is important to have like minded values to share 329 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 2: those values. When we had Moms to Men Action volunteers, 330 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: we would ask them, you know, what were the things 331 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 2: that made them stay. It's not that hard to get 332 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 2: volunteers to come into organization, it's very hard to get 333 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: them to stay. And they would say two things. They 334 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: felt like they were winning, and they felt like they 335 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: found their people. And because even in you know, the 336 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 2: reddest of states, working on an issue that can be 337 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: very polarizing, they found and shared like minded values with 338 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 2: other people and those are lifelong friends even when they 339 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 2: left the organization. As I said, when I started Moms 340 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 2: to Man Action, my values were very much about protecting 341 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: my family and my community. Now that I'm an empty nester, 342 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: sure those things are important to me and they don't 343 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: go away, but I really value wisdom and mentorship and 344 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: being able to create community. I'm just in sort of 345 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 2: a different place. So I think all of these things 346 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: will evolve during your lifetime. 347 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: So completing the fire formula triangle is abilities. What are 348 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: some of the abilities that we tend to downplay or 349 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: dismiss that are actually worth celebrating on this journey. 350 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 2: I think this is also something that women really struggle with, 351 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: is knowing and celebrating their abilities, being proud of them, 352 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 2: because we downplay our abilities so often we've had to, 353 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 2: and we forget first of all, that being a mom, 354 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: being a partner, being an employee, all of these things 355 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 2: require specific skill sets that make us capable of doing 356 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 2: a lot of things. You know, I have spent a 357 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: lot of time in state houses, and I will just 358 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 2: tell you know, if you are carrying, compassionate, concerned you 359 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: would make an amazing state lawmaker. These are not rocket scientists. 360 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 2: They're average, everyday people. And yet I think that we 361 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: forget that the things that we're doing in our daily 362 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 2: lives actually qualify us for a whole host of things. 363 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: That is the beauty of coming together in community. You 364 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: realize that you have abilities. Maybe they're innate, maybe they're acquired, 365 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 2: but these abilities make you stand out, And I think, 366 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 2: what's great about doing an audit of your abilities? And 367 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: I suggest in the book asking other people what they 368 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,479 Speaker 2: think your abilities are so that you can see yourself 369 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: more clearly. Is that if you don't have the abilities 370 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 2: you want, you can go get them. 371 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: You know. 372 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,239 Speaker 2: I talk about in the book how I was not 373 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 2: the person really anyone would have pointed to and said, oh, 374 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: that person she should lead Moms to Men Action. I 375 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 2: have severe untreated ADHD that I had my whole life 376 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: that prevented me almost from graduating from middle, high school, 377 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: and college. I had a debilitating fear of public speaking. 378 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: In fact, if I had known Moms to Men Action 379 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 2: would require public speaking, I probably wouldn't have started it. 380 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: I didn't know much about gun violence prevention, organizing or 381 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 2: the legislative process right. And yet it turns out this 382 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 2: neurodivergent Mamma five from the Midwest was exactly the right 383 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 2: person for the job. And it was only because I 384 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 2: decided to take the leap. And I talk about this 385 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 2: metaphor of flying the plane as you build it. If 386 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 2: I had waited to cross all my teas and do 387 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: all my eyes when I knew everything, there was to know, 388 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: and I felt fully prepared. I still wouldn't started moms 389 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: to my action this many years later. And there is 390 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 2: that fear of failure that we have to get over. 391 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 2: That we look at men in the society, everyone from 392 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: I would say Beto or Rourke to Elon Musk, you 393 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 2: know they have a lot of public failures and that 394 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: they continue to rise within society, they continue to get 395 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 2: more opportunities. And so the best way for women to 396 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: not feel like they have to disappear when they fail 397 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 2: is just to keep trying and to get comfortable with 398 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 2: those fears lengths of failure. 399 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: As you were speaking, I was thinking about this question 400 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: that I wanted to ask you, which is like, what 401 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: gave you the courage to become this woman, become this 402 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: founder of Mom's Demand action, even though on paper you 403 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: weren't that woman at all. But then as you were speaking, 404 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: I realized that maybe it's not about summoning this impossible 405 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 1: level of courage, it's about developing it over time incrementally. 406 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, In fact, I believe incrementalism leads to revolutions. 407 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 2: I have seen it in activism, that it is a 408 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: practice and a discipline, just like hope right. You wake 409 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 2: up every day as an activist and you decide to 410 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 2: be hopeful. And I think what this book is about 411 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: is that you wake up every day and you decide 412 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 2: to ask yourself what do I want? And the women 413 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 2: I interview in the book are such amazing examples of this, 414 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 2: you know, everyone from a woman who had been rejected 415 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 2: from law schools twenty times. After she graduated from college 416 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, she decided to go back and not 417 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 2: only did she get in, but she became the first 418 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 2: black woman president of her law school. And now that 419 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 2: is her fulfillment, that is her fire, and she gets 420 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 2: other women of color into law schools across the country. 421 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: I interviewed a woman who her whole life wanted to 422 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: be an author, but in order to pay the bills, 423 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 2: she became a teacher. She loved that career, but when 424 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: she retired, she taught herself how to write a book, 425 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 2: how to create dialogue, how to write chapters. She decided 426 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 2: that she did not want to self publish. She deserved 427 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: to be published by a company. She was rejected two 428 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: hundred and eighteen times. On the two hundred and nineteenth application, 429 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 2: she got a book deal and she became a published 430 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 2: author in her seventies. Right, So there's all these stories 431 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 2: of women at all ages who kept trying over and 432 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 2: over again. It's this practice. 433 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: As I was reading her book and as I'm hearing 434 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: you talk about these women, it seems like they all 435 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: believe that it's never too late. 436 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: That's right here. I am at fifty four with my 437 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 2: new book, and so so I just don't think it's 438 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: ever too late. I feel like I could achieve anything. 439 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 2: I have the wisdom, I have the energy, and now 440 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: I'm grateful to live in a society that allows me 441 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,719 Speaker 2: to do that. And so I think we just need 442 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 2: more examples of how we need to read about how 443 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 2: that happens. The fact that when you live differently you 444 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: will get blowback. Here's how you survive that. And you're 445 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: not going to necessarily get threats of death and sexual violence, 446 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: but you may have someone make a snarky comment in 447 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 2: the pickup line at school, like why did you miss 448 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 2: that soccer game? 449 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: Right? 450 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 2: How to get through the messy middle to the other side. 451 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 2: How to build a bonfire of your people that will 452 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: sustain you and provide community, and then how do you 453 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: wind that fire down? And start another one in your life. 454 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: How do you make this a practice that you do 455 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: again and again so that you don't have any deathbed regrets? 456 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: And this is an interesting topic of conversation. When I 457 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 2: interviewed all of these women, I asked them all, what 458 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 2: are you afraid your deathbed regret will be? Almost all 459 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 2: of them who were mothers, said that spending so much 460 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 2: time figuring out what I want will have a detrimental 461 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 2: effect on my kids. Right, it's all about am I 462 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: a bad mom for going after what I want? 463 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: That's their biggest fear on their deathbed. 464 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 2: Yes, that's what they are afraid their biggest fear will be. 465 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: And I'm on the other side of that chasm. Right, 466 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: My youngest is a grown adult. They're all adults now, 467 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: and they don't say to me, now, you know, mom, 468 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 2: you were so busy with mom's man action. I can't 469 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: believe you didn't go to that soccer game in two 470 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: thousand and six, or I can't believe you didn't watch 471 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 2: the third showing of my play at school. What they 472 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: all say is two things. Thank you for having other 473 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 2: things to focus on them besides just me, because that 474 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 2: was a lot of pressure and also thank you for 475 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 2: giving me an example of how I can go after 476 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: what I want as an adult. It's really important that 477 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 2: they have that example. 478 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: That is so heartbreaking to me to hear that for 479 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: a lot of moms and women and their number one 480 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: fear is how their passions and pursuits would negatively impact 481 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: their kids. I think that just goes to show how 482 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: deep the conditioning is for us as women. We are 483 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: so trained to think about everyone else's needs at the 484 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: expense of our own. Like, I love my kids, Shannon, 485 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: They're literally my world. But I do feel proud of 486 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: myself that I feel like I'm at a place in 487 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: my later thirties where I'm able to let go of 488 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: a lot of that mom guilt and embrace my desires 489 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: and embrace my ambition in new and exciting ways. 490 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, mom guilt is part of that external 491 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: pressure that we feel, and we can internalize that so much. 492 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: And I also interview doctor Eliza Pressman, who's an amazing 493 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 2: child psychologist, who says it's so important that moms have 494 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 2: other things to focus on besides their kids. It makes 495 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: them happier and better moms. It makes happier kids who 496 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 2: are learning by their example. It's just a really important exercise. 497 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 2: And look, no one should feel guilt or shame if 498 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 2: they're not doing that too right. It's not to add 499 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: on to that, it's just to give them permission to say, 500 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 2: why don't. 501 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: You explore this? More from Shannon Watts after this short break, 502 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: and we're back with Shannon Watts. This book really impacted 503 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: me in a profound way, Shannon and I it's the 504 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: kind of book that I'm going to recommend to all 505 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: the women in my life. I think the reason why 506 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: it impacted me is because I kind of feel like 507 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: I've lost my spark, because I can remember feeling that 508 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: fire when I found my calling as a journalist in 509 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: college and feeling that like sense of yes purpose. But 510 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: then I got into that job, at the highest levels 511 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: of that job, and just realized that I was hamstrung 512 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways that I could never have anticipated, 513 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: and unfortunately realized that the kind of impact I wanted 514 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: to have was just not possible in today's media landscape. 515 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: And I think this is just something that happens as 516 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: you get older in life. Life's events can tend to 517 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: humble you right and send you on that journey of 518 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: rediscovering what that spark is. So while I know this 519 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,719 Speaker 1: book can be really instrumental for someone who is finding 520 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: that fire for the first time, what would you say 521 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: to readers like me who are looking to find a 522 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: spark again? 523 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 2: Well, it is there, right, and it is about figuring 524 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 2: out what are my abilities, values, and desires that fire formula. 525 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 2: And I would love to hear what happens when you 526 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: go through the exercises. I'm so excited to know where 527 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 2: you come out on that because that spark that you're 528 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 2: talking about, and I'm guessing that spark comes through in 529 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: this work that you do now because it isn't super dissimilar, right, 530 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: I mean you are still changing and minds and you 531 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 2: were still having a profound impact by having these conversations. 532 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: So I would wonder what more is it? Is there too? 533 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: What you want to do when you go through the exercises, 534 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: when you do some of these prompts, Because if you're 535 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: a young mom and you're busy with all of the 536 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 2: shoulds and the obligations, that may be what is tamping 537 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 2: your spark right, and you are there abilities that you 538 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: want to acquire that you don't have. Are there values 539 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 2: that you're not living. Is there a dormant desire inside 540 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: you that you haven't pursued, And I think this book 541 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: will help you find that way, and I really do 542 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 2: want you to tell me what that is. I'll report back. 543 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: I think another aspect of it is just the hopelessness 544 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: that I feel right now. And that's kind of hard 545 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: to admit because I host a show called The bright 546 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: Side and were we want to provide a sense of 547 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 1: hope for our listeners and want to provide an escape. 548 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: But just being completely honest, there are days where the 549 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: hope is really hard to conjure. And I'm sure you 550 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: experienced that leading mom's demand action. What did you do 551 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: on those days to feel a sense of hope? 552 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 2: This is such a profound question. Look, I believe, as 553 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 2: we talked about earlier, that hope is a discipline, that 554 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: it is a practice that you wake up every day 555 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 2: and you almost have to decide to be hopeful, even 556 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: in the midst of feeling hopeless or helpless. And the 557 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 2: reason is because what I have seen, particularly in gun 558 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: violence prevention activism, is that cynicism can become an excuse 559 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: for an action, for staying on the sidelines right, and 560 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 2: Alice Walker says, activism is the rent I pay to 561 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 2: live on the planet. None of us can afford to 562 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 2: live on the sidelines. In this country and in this world, 563 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: especially right now, we are all called to bring our values, 564 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 2: our abilities, and desires to the table. And I don't 565 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 2: mean that you have to become an activist. I'm just 566 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 2: saying that what the world needs right now are more 567 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: women who have come alive in all aspects of their life. 568 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: And I do think that that is part of the solution. 569 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: But also, when you live this way, you find your people, 570 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 2: and your people will make sure that you don't feel 571 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: that way either. Right. It is community that can engender 572 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: hope and make you feel like you can keep going. 573 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: To bring this conversation both to a close and full circle, Shannon, 574 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: journaling is that path to a liveness, and in this 575 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: book you provide several journaling prompts to help in that process. 576 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: One of my favorites says to write down a list 577 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: of twenty things that you wish that you could do 578 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: with your life. Another says to write down a list 579 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: of all your accomplishments. What's one prompt that you'd like 580 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: to leave our listeners with today. 581 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 2: I think that everyone should write down their abilities. You 582 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 2: brought up that prompt, But when you write this whole 583 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 2: list of all the things you've accomplished, and I give 584 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 2: parameters for it, you will see that you are such 585 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 2: a capable person, that you have so many skills that 586 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 2: could be used in different ways, probably other than the 587 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 2: ways that you're using them. 588 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: I mean. 589 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 2: And so I just think when we start to write 590 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: down all of our capabilities, all of our abilities, and 591 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: it becomes this laundry list, it is there to remind 592 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: us every time we start to doubt ourselves, we can 593 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 2: go back to it. We can realize that we are 594 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 2: much more capable than we think. And the other prompt 595 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,959 Speaker 2: I love is asking people to tell us what our 596 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: abilities are. It is not only eye opening to realize 597 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 2: what other people think our skills are. It's such a 598 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 2: compliment to see what other people think about who we are. 599 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: Shannon Watts, thank you so much. 600 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 2: Thank you. 601 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: Shannon Watts is an activist, author, public speaker, and firestarter. 602 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: Her book Fired Up, How to Turn your sparkan to 603 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: a flame and come Alive at any age, is out now. 604 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: The bright Side is a production of Hello Sunshine and 605 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and 606 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: me Simone Boyce. Production is by ACAST Creative Studios. Our 607 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: producers are Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, and Darby Masters. Our 608 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: production assistant is Joya Putnoy. Acast executive producers are Jenny 609 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are 610 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry is the 611 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. Tim Palazzola is our showrunner. 612 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser.