1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: We've got a lot to discuss. 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 3: President Trump extending trade talks with China for another sixty 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 3: days so as both countries continue to wine out key differences. 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 3: Joining us now to discuss that and a whole lot more. 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 3: The seventy nine Secretary of the Treasury sculp Lesson, miss 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 3: the Secretary, good morning, good to see it. 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 2: Warning Johan, you're a cover model. Now you're famous. 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 3: Can we get that front cover up for Business Week 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 3: this month? Mister Secretary? I remember when you were just 11 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 3: scult beston and we could go for breakfast together, the 12 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 3: three of us, and no. 13 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: One would bother you. What happened? 14 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 4: I don't know, but I hope it's not the curse 15 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 4: of the cover. 16 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: There the top. Historically the being on the cover is 17 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: a curse. 18 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 3: Well, this secreity market is not curse that keeps grinding 19 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 3: out all time highs. There is some confidence that we're 20 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 3: setlling some issues on the trade front. There's one issue 21 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 3: that came up this week that we'd love to hear 22 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 3: from you about, and that's in video. Where did this 23 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 3: agreement come from? You've been quite innovative industriction on tray issues. 24 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: Where did this come from? Who came up with it? 25 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 4: The president? 26 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: The president, as I tell everyone, the President is one 27 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: of the most open minded people I know. He does 28 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: everything at first principles. Why do we do things this way? 29 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: Why shouldn't we do it the other way? And you know, 30 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: I think that this is a very unique solution allows 31 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: Nvidia to expand into China. It can make in Nvidia 32 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: chips the bellweather for Chinese technology, and then the US 33 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: taxpayer gets a share of that. 34 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 3: Key words unique, Is it unique to Invidia, an empty 35 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 3: or is this a model for other companies? 36 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: I think we could see it in other industries over time. 37 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: I think, you know, right now this is unique. But 38 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: now that we have the model and the beta test, 39 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: why not expand it. 40 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 5: What do you say to people who think we're putting 41 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 5: a price on national security concerns by basically selling export licenses. 42 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: There are no national security concerns here. We would not 43 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: sell any of the advanced chips, so the H twenties. 44 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: I don't know whether you'd say there are four or 45 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: five six levels down the chip stack. What we do 46 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: not want here, Ane Marie, is for Huawei to have 47 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: a digital Belton Road so we do not want the 48 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: standard to become Chinese across the world or even in China. 49 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 5: We have exclusive reporting that Beijing is now sending out 50 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 5: letters to firms saying, actually, shrug off those H twenty 51 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 5: and use our domestic champions. Is this something you might 52 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 5: discuss with your counterpart. 53 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: Sure, we can discuss that, But it also tells me 54 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: that they are worried about the Nvidia chips becoming the 55 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: standard in China. Look, Nvidia is an incredible product. A 56 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: lot of the technology in China is they're piggybacking. And 57 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: I'll use piggybacking as a kind word for acquiring our technology. 58 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 4: Do you mean stealing your words? And yes, that's what 59 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 4: I mean. 60 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: And the in Vidio Jensen Wong just days years. 61 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 4: Ahead of them. 62 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 5: Criticism came from the Wall Street Journal editorial board though 63 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 5: about this new unique policy. They say it's a step 64 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 5: toward government control of private business. 65 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 4: Are you concerned some of these. 66 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 5: Polies are starting to look like the country you're actually 67 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 5: trying to de risk from central planning basically out of 68 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 5: the old No, no. 69 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: No, not not at all, because where we got was 70 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: with this unfettered trade. We did not have secure trade 71 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: or fair trade, and so now we are trying to 72 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: make it secure, so you don't want to We're not 73 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: sending out the highest level chips, and you know, we 74 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,839 Speaker 1: don't want to sell everything to everybody, so that there 75 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: is a need for intervention. And you know, the Wall 76 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: Street Journal just let let her rip. Kind of a 77 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: bunch of grumpy old men over there. I was with 78 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: them yesterday. 79 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: This is going to raise some revenue. What do you 80 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: plan to do with it? 81 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 4: Paid on the debt. 82 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: It's all going to go to play down the debt. 83 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 3: Because we have heard some stories about the money going 84 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 3: back to consumers, going back to citizens of the United 85 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 3: States taxpayers. 86 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: Well, President Trump's talked about that, and look at the 87 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: bottom fifty percent of wage journers in the One Big 88 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: Beautiful Bill are getting a lot of money back. No 89 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: tax on tips, no tax over time, no tax on 90 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: Social Security. Auto loans are going to be tax deductible. 91 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: So I think if we could make a substantial debt 92 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: in the debt repayment, then we could talk about a 93 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: program like that. 94 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: Could you share with us the kind of numbers you're 95 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 3: thinking about at the moment, just in terms of revenue 96 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: raising and not just the Nvidia deal. I'm talking about 97 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 3: the tarifs on top of that. What are we raising 98 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 3: at the moment month on months, Well, Johnson. 99 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: I've been saying that we could hit three hundred billion 100 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: this year, and I think that number is going to 101 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: be low. I think I'm gonna I always like to 102 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: come in low and then surprise on the upside. But 103 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: I think in the next days or weeks I may 104 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: have to move that number up substantially. 105 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 3: You've heard the debate playing out on Wall Street now 106 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 3: for a number of months. Who's going to pay the teriffs? 107 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 3: By definition, the important will pay the tariff. The more 108 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 3: important question here is who absorbs the costs, whether it's 109 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: the foreign supplier, whether it's the domestic company here in 110 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 3: the United States, or the end consumer. We've got some 111 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 3: data yesterday. You've seen it. We've all looked at it. 112 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: Limited tariff pass through relative to what was expected. Because 113 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 3: of that, a lot of people are suggesting that maybe 114 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 3: companies are absorbing costs in a way we didn't anticipate. 115 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 3: Perhaps the pass through will be more muted in the future. 116 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 3: Are you comfortable with where things are now or do 117 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 3: you think things might rebalance in the months to come. 118 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: Jonathan, I think your framing there is exactly right, exactly right, 119 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: because that obviously the tariff itself is paid at the port, 120 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: but what if the producer in the other country has 121 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: lowered their price, they're ten fifteen to twenty percent, so 122 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: that there is no race change with the tariff. And 123 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: obviously our largest trade deficit is with China, and China 124 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: does not have the same profit objective that other Western 125 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: democracies do, so that is an employment agency, and my 126 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: view has been that they would continue to eat the teriffs. 127 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: They are doing that, so I think what we've seen 128 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: is likely to continue happening. I also think there are 129 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: probably a lot of corporate margins that got very fat 130 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: during COVID and now we're seeing a return to normal 131 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: pre COVID margins. 132 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 3: You see this as some kind of redistribution between corporate America, 133 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 3: maybe the consumer main Street and Wall Street. 134 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: I think disadministration is all about Main Street, but Wall 135 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: Street's at a new high, so it's its false equivalency. 136 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: It's not either or I tell everyone, I call it 137 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: parallel prosperity. Wall Street's done great, Main Street can now 138 00:06:58,960 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: do great Wall Street. 139 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 3: I do even better if the Federal serve cuts interest rates. 140 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: The President was pretty clear yesterday put out this comment 141 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: Jerome too late, Pale must now lower the interest rate. 142 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: Is it reasonable to give them a bit more time 143 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: to draw conclusions about what's happening care Well. 144 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: I think what we could see is that, let's first 145 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: of all, what if the BLS data had been the 146 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: higher quality and we'd had those numbers, Jonathan, So if 147 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: we'd seen those numbers in May in June, I suspect 148 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: we could have had rate cuts in June and July. 149 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 4: So that tells me that there's a very. 150 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: Good chance of a fifty basis point rate cut. And 151 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: I think President Trump is very good at giving these nicknames. 152 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: And I think the reason that the Jay Powell gets 153 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: a nickname too late is because he wants to go 154 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: into a series of rate hikes. He's not willing. He's 155 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: not Alan Greenspan, who was very forward thinking. 156 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 4: They try to be more data driven. 157 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: Which I think a mistake because I think we are 158 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: going back into an economy like we had in the nineties, 159 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: so you know, it's just very old fashioned thinking. But 160 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: I do think we could go into a series of 161 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: rate cuts here starting with a fifty basis point rate 162 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: cut in September. 163 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 5: A fifty basis rate cut in September, does that signal 164 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 5: that the economy, though, is not doing well. 165 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: That signals that there's an adjustment and that the rates 166 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: are too constrictive. 167 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 4: If you look at any model that the you. 168 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: We should probably be one hundred and fifty one hundred 169 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: and seventy five basis points lower. So I think the 170 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: committee needs to step back. I think probably one of 171 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: the most politicized governors just went off the board and 172 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: that she was very, very political, I believe, and I. 173 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 3: Think that that what does she do that gave you 174 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 3: that impression? I'd love to know? Sorry, I mentioned you're 175 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 3: referring to Governor Coogler. What does she do that gave me? 176 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of insight baseball, and look, 177 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: Governor Couglor, you read what she was saying with Kamala 178 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: Harris was running that we needed rape cuts, we needed this, 179 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: we got to phone the runway. And then all of 180 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: a sudden it was hard to know whether we know TDS. 181 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 4: Was it Trump that the. 182 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: Dimension syndrome or Trump derangement syndrome or tariff derangement syndrome. 183 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 3: You get the opportunity to remake the Federal Reserve. The 184 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 3: president gets the opportunity to remodel reshape the Federal Reserve. 185 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 3: And I'm not talking about the remodeling that maybe the 186 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 3: current chairman's going through. We'll talk about that another time. 187 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 3: I want to talk about the complexion and character of 188 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 3: the committee, the changes that you're making at the moment. 189 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 3: Stephen Maron, let's start with Stephen. How quickly can you 190 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 3: get more and confirmed? 191 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: We'll see. The President has great sway with Leader thim. 192 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: Leader has been a great partner during the tax deal, 193 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: and I I think that he would like to see Steven, 194 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: who I've known for a long time, get on there 195 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: as soon as possible. So I'm hopeful about the September meeting. 196 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: And Jonathan, the President's concerned about the building and those 197 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: massive costs overrun, which just tell you that there is 198 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: no accountability at that organization. There's no oversight in terms 199 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: of the spending. But the President and I are both 200 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: concerned about the foundations of the FED, the foundations of 201 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: the FED, and how did this happen and why did 202 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: it happen, and how did the leadership let it happen. 203 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 5: When it comes to Director Myron, do you expect him 204 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 5: to stay on past the January term that expires from 205 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 5: Coogler seat. 206 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 4: I wouldn't expect that. 207 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 5: So, who are some names you're thinking of the Cooglar seat? 208 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 5: Because everyone has been focused on who is going to 209 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 5: fill the chairmanship role? Who are you thinking to fill 210 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 5: that extra seat? 211 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: Well, e Marie, I'm going to We're working on the 212 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: big list right now. I think they're going to be 213 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: a couple more names revealed today. 214 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 4: They're going to be private sector names. 215 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: So we had a series or a list of. 216 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 4: Current FED members. 217 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: We're going to have some private sector, very well respected, 218 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: very well respected people, and then we will get to 219 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: the second seat. 220 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 5: Can you give us some names, a little bit of 221 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 5: a tease, maybe people that have been on this program. 222 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: Well, I just did tease telling you there'll be some 223 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: private sector names. 224 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 4: Okay. 225 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 5: When it comes to the FED chair though, can you 226 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 5: give us a sense of how many names you're actually 227 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 5: thinking about. 228 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to interview I'm going to cast a 229 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: wide net ten to eleven people, and then there'll be 230 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: a group of us who are meeting with them and 231 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: we want to talk about monetary policy. We want to 232 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: talk about regulatory policy, which is very very important because 233 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: the FED step I think bigfoot of the other regulators. 234 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: The Fed's one of three regulators, Federal Reserve, OCC and FDIC, 235 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: and I think that they need to understand that they 236 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: are one of three, and then the third is the 237 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: institution itself, which I think is what President Trump has 238 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: been focused on quite a bit too. 239 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 5: After you do this process, how many names are going 240 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 5: to give to the President and when does he start 241 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 5: those in person interviews? 242 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 4: We don't have a timeline. 243 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: By putting Stephen Myern in that gives us more time, 244 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: and again, I want to cast a wide net. The 245 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: President's very open minded. Before he chose j Powell, Janet 246 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: Yellen was interviewed, John Taylor was interviewed. Two of them 247 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: couldn't have been more different, so they were under consideration. 248 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 3: I give you credit for coming up with a really 249 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 3: credible list to replace the Federal Reserve Chair Jake pab 250 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 3: without it down. I think most people that come on 251 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 3: this program agree with that. What I want to talk 252 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: about is the BLS NOW because there's some controversy around 253 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 3: this pick. I'm sure you've heard some of the concerns each. 254 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 3: Anthony had said the following early this week before getting 255 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 3: the pick from the President. Until this issue with ros 256 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 3: is corrected, he said, quote, the bil I should suspend 257 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 3: issuing the monthly jobs report. They keep publishing the more accurate, 258 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 3: though less timely, quarterly data. 259 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: We'd love your thoughts on this. Is that something you support, 260 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: not at all? 261 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 4: And look what somebody says when. 262 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: There are are private citizens is very very different. You know, 263 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: I called for a shadow fedshair and you know now 264 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: that I'm in the seat, I don't think we need 265 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: to do that. And I was there when EJ was interviewed, 266 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: and he is incredibly qualified. And I think the most 267 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: important thing here is that we get back to the 268 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: integrity of the numbers, because it just became okay, just 269 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: like so many things in our government, for it to 270 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: get sloppy. 271 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 4: And EJ is precise. 272 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: He has a doctorate in economics. I think President Trump 273 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: put a lot of thought into this. He was very 274 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: thorough in his questioning of him. What we want is 275 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 1: good data, because you can't make good decisions without good data. 276 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: As I just said, is very likely that the FED 277 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: would have been doing something else. In June in July 278 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: if they had had this data. 279 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about the data we've got and the 280 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 3: process we have and how we might improve that process. 281 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 3: As you know that data is prone to big revisions 282 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 3: in your career on Wall Street, we've all been dealing 283 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 3: with this for a long long time because of the 284 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: process and the lack of time, and the response is 285 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 3: it is constantly reviewed month and month. As you get 286 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: more responses from Corporate America. How can we improve that 287 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 3: process so this data is less prone to these big revisions. 288 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: Well, I've been in government now for seven months and 289 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: I can tell you that if we take the irs, 290 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: which I'm now the head of, they've been working on 291 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: a tech upgrade since nineteen ninety. Nineteen ninety we brought 292 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: in a young person to fix that. The tech upgrade 293 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: has been underway for longer than he is old. So 294 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: he wasn't born when the tech upgrade started. So you know, 295 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: I just think like this idea that we're accepting this 296 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: mediocrity and government, Why don't we bring things into the 297 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: twenty first century? 298 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 4: Why don't we bring it into the digital age. 299 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: Because I don't know about political bias one way or 300 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: the other, but what I can tell you is that 301 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: the sample response size kept getting smaller and smaller, and 302 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: then they filled in the cells. And anytime you get 303 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: judgment versus data, then things become qualitative and not quantitative. 304 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: And I think EJ is going to do a great 305 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: job of bringing back quantitative standards. I think he like 306 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: these attacks in the press. I think they're all wrong 307 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: with him. 308 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 5: It's not in the press, it's even within conservative economic 309 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 5: circles that don't think that he is credible to run 310 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 5: the commission. Is the Trump administration open to putting more 311 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,359 Speaker 5: resources than to BLS, maybe lifting. 312 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: Hiring free, you know, and Marie, that's more of a 313 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: democratic idea that you know, we need more. It's always money. 314 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: It's always money. It's where it's New York City schools, 315 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: Chicago schools, DC schools, you get terrible outcomes. I think 316 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,359 Speaker 1: that he's going to sit back, look at the process 317 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: and how can we use technology to do this better? 318 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: You know, I got the Treasury and it was shocking. 319 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: We processed one point five billion payments a year, and 320 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: five hundred million of them, one third of them did 321 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: not have what's known as a task Treasury accounting symbol 322 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: on them. And people were just hitting sin sin sin, 323 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: and it wasn't a gigantic leap, just to try to 324 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: get people to do their jobs. 325 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 3: This has big implications for how people view credible economic data, 326 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 3: but also the markets as well. So let's talk about 327 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: financial markets. In the bomb market, you've always been a 328 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: ten year man. The spread between the two year and 329 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 3: the ten year, I think has been really stable over 330 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 3: the last several months, where we start to see some 331 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: leakages between tens out to thirty. That thirty year bond 332 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 3: as a tracy second chary, I remember you refering to 333 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: yourself as the nation's top bond salesman. What's the usefulness 334 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 3: of issuing a thirty year bond when it feels like 335 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 3: at the moment we're outsourcing borrowing cost to what happens 336 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 3: in Japan, what might happen in the UK, what happens 337 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 3: in Europe. What's the value of issuing that. 338 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: That's a great question, Jonathan, And look, we are committed 339 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: to keeping inflation expectations low, and this is a global phenomenon, 340 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: whether it's the ten or the thirty that the US 341 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: tenure is one of the few ten years where the 342 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: yield is down on the year. 343 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 4: So that tells me. 344 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: That there's credibility from Treasury, credibility from FED, that the 345 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: inflation expectations are well anchored. But there's definitely leakage from 346 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: the Japanese have an inflation problem that I've spoken to 347 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: Governor u Wada. 348 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 4: My opinion not his. 349 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: They're behind the curve, so they're going to be hiking 350 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: and they need to get there problem under control. In Germany, 351 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: we saw a substantial spike in German rates in the past. 352 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 4: Week also, so you know our thirty year. 353 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: Is getting dragged along with that, we've been refilling the 354 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: treasury general account, which during the debt ceiling standoff got 355 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: run down, and we're doing that with short term bills. 356 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 3: Do you see more reason then to pair back on 357 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 3: thirty ier issuants? With all this in mind, and this 358 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 3: is a change again for you now and to see 359 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 3: as you look at these developments and rethink things, how 360 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 3: are your thoughts on that matter evolving? 361 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, they are evolving, and we'll see where things go. 362 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: I do think as we bring down this big deficit 363 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: that we inherited, I think that the US, that the 364 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: entire US curve can have a parallel shift down relative 365 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: to the rest of the world. 366 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 3: Do you think you can work with the Federal Reserve 367 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 3: on this matter? So if we take the weighted average 368 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 3: maturity of FED hooldings at the moment, I believe that's 369 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 3: right at about nine years. The issuance of the average 370 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 3: maturity about standing bills notes baws that's closer to six. 371 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: Do you need to narrow that gap a little bit? 372 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, I don't think. 373 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: The FED needs to get back into the large scale 374 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: asset purchase business, and they know we've had very good demand, 375 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: especially in the belly of the curb, which is where 376 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: asset managers seem most interested. 377 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 5: Now when it comes to other things you're working on 378 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 5: in Washington, DC, there's still this stock band legislation that 379 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 5: has been circulating around Congress. Is a president prepared to 380 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 5: sign that bill? 381 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: I don't think we have the perfect bill yet, but 382 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: I am going to start pushing for it's single stock 383 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: trading ban because it is the credibility of the House 384 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: and the Senate that you look at some of these 385 00:19:53,240 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: eye popping returns, whether it's Representative Pelosi, Senator Widen, every 386 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: hedge fund would be jealous of them, and the American 387 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: people deserve better than this. People shouldn't come to Washington 388 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: to get rich, they should come to serve the American people. 389 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: And it brings down trust in the system because I 390 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: can tell you that if any private citizen traded this way, 391 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: the sec would be knocking. 392 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 4: On their door. 393 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 5: Do you think it needs to extend they'll beyond single stocks. 394 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 5: These individuals can still have ets and other products. 395 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: Well, what I used to do my old firm was 396 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: you could buy ETFs. They had to be widely held ETFs, 397 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: so they couldn't be of a small size and there 398 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: was a long holding period. The House and the Senate, 399 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: they're supposed to be working for the American people, their constituents. 400 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 4: They're supposed to be. 401 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: Making law, and they shouldn't be trading every day. I'm 402 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: not going to name names, but there was one person 403 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: in Congress who had twelve or thirteen hundred trays two 404 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: years ago and my hedge and didn't have that many 405 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: trade Do you think it. 406 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 5: Needs to also extend to the executive branch and include 407 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 5: the president and the vice president. 408 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: I think that they would be fine on the single 409 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: stock and the holding period. 410 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 3: Maybe titus with the secretary. Do you not think they're 411 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 3: just great tritus. 412 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 4: It is a statistical anomaly, you know. 413 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: Warren Warren Buffett wrote an essay once and he talked 414 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 1: about the zoo and Graham and Doddville, and if all 415 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: the orangutangs in that zoo kept typing the Bible, then 416 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: there's something going on in that zoo. There is something 417 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: going on on Capitol Hill in terms of information leakage 418 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: that is statistically, they are not not sound. 419 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 3: Do you think those restrictions should extend to the executive branch? Sorry, 420 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 3: do you think those restrictions should extend to the White House? 421 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 4: Well, I mean they already, they already extend the Treasury. 422 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 2: Is the President about this? Is he comfortable? 423 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: Well, the President's come out and favor of this, and 424 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: King Jefferies is in favor of too. And I can 425 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: tell you if I were Congress and I were looking 426 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: at my ratings with the American people, I would be 427 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: pushing this because again, it's an extractive class. You should 428 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: not come to DC expecting to line your pocket. 429 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 4: You should come to d C to do the people's business. 430 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 2: We couldn't agree more. 431 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 3: And it's been greatly disappointing to see that there's tighter 432 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 3: restrictions on how journalists trade than over some members of 433 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 3: Congress in Washington. 434 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean again. 435 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: Is one of the things that I think we can 436 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: do to get trust back into the system. 437 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 3: Just wanted to finish on the President's visits to Alaska 438 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 3: going into the weekend. Emory is going to be that 439 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 3: what do you think we can accomplish this weekend? 440 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: I think the President has been thinking about this a 441 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: long time. He believes, as do I that this war 442 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: never would have started if he had been president, and 443 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: he is committed to ending the bloodshed, but not in 444 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: any calls, not in any I think everyone has been 445 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: frustrated with President Putin. We expected that he would come 446 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: to the table in a more fulsome way. It looks 447 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: like he may be ready to negotiate. And we put 448 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: secondary tariffs on an Indian on the Indians for buying 449 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: Russian oil, and I could see if things don't go well, 450 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: then sanctions or secondary tariffs could go up. 451 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 5: What about China, They're the main purchasers of Russian crude. 452 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: Again, I'm not going to get ahead of the president, 453 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: but the president is the best at creating leverage for 454 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: himself and he will make it clear to President Putin 455 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: that all options are on the table. 456 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 5: So sanctions can go up, or they can also be loosened. 457 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 4: Sanctions can go up, they can be loosened. 458 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: They can have a definitive life, they can go on indefinitely. Know, 459 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: there's this rush shadow fleet of ships around the world 460 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: that I think we could crack down in them. But 461 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: the a Marie and Jonathan is the one message I 462 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: would leave you with. It's the President Trump is meeting 463 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: with President Putin, and the Europeans are in the wings, 464 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: carping about how he should do it, what he should 465 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: do it. But the Europeans need to join us in 466 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: these sanctions. They need to the Europeans need to be 467 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: willing to put on these secondary sanctions. I was at 468 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: the G seven meeting in Canada with President Trump, and 469 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: the Europeans kept talking about Senator Graham's bill to do 470 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: the secondary tariffs. And I looked at all the leaders 471 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: around the table and I said, is everyone at this 472 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: table willing to put a two h secondary tariff on China? 473 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 4: And you know what, everybody wanted to see what kind 474 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 4: of shoes they were wearing. 475 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: I imagine the Germans went very quiet and that's been 476 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 3: a problem for a long time. 477 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's put up her show enough time. The president 478 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: is creating his own leverage. We need the Europeans to 479 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: come in and help create more leverage. 480 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 3: Mister secretary, I appreciate your time. Good to see if 481 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 3: you're enjoying this. I get the fill that you're enjoying this. 482 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 3: It's good to see you. You seem happy. 483 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 4: I think things are going well. 484 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 3: The Treasury Secretary scope beston, mister Benson. 485 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 2: Thank you. We appreciate it so