Speaker 1: Hey, what welcome in. I'm gug gotli you. Well, you
Speaker 1: downloaded all ball and if you missed the Joe Golden
Speaker 1: Parts one to parts two, um, they're still there. You
Speaker 1: gotta go find them. They're really, really good. I love that.
Speaker 1: I almost wish we could call this pod. Uh two
Speaker 1: tens of stuff, one red bull and a candy bar. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: to listen to part one of Joe Golden in order
Speaker 1: to to get that. But um, look, I want to
Speaker 1: wish you all a happy New Year. Um, if I
Speaker 1: didn't wish she had married Christmas related Mary Christmas, we
Speaker 1: can still do that, right, It's only a couple of
Speaker 1: days afterwards. But we wanted to think this one in
Speaker 1: before the New Year because one, I really like sarahcu
Speaker 1: Stock the person. I like her the talent, and she
Speaker 1: has an interesting story and oh yeah, by the way,
Speaker 1: she covers a really really interesting team in the NBA,
Speaker 1: Like we gotta have her back on Talk College Hoops
Speaker 1: as well. She's she's good at all of it. Um,
Speaker 1: but she's she does both sideline and she's an analyst
Speaker 1: for the Brooklyn Nets. And she went from being a
Speaker 1: a very good player with DePaul Blue Demons too now
Speaker 1: to im breaking through barriers right. Um, there have been
Speaker 1: other women, most notably Doris Burke, but there are others
Speaker 1: who have broken through. But I don't know if people
Speaker 1: have a healthy respect for not just that she's a
Speaker 1: woman calling games in the NBA as analysts, but also
Speaker 1: like look before before the wave of a couple of
Speaker 1: different women, no one who didn't play or coach in
Speaker 1: the NBA was an analyst in the NBA. That's said
Speaker 1: glass ceiling for all of us who never played a
Speaker 1: second in the n B A. UM. So that's a
Speaker 1: hard breakthrough and it's an interesting dynamic when she's at
Speaker 1: her place of business. UM, it should be pointing out
Speaker 1: that most people are starting to come around to what
Speaker 1: I think about Kevin Durant. He's an incredibly elite all
Speaker 1: time player, and I find it, I find it almost
Speaker 1: comically embarrassing. Can I put those two words together? I
Speaker 1: just did that because he played for Golden State. Well,
Speaker 1: that somehow takes away from what he's done, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know, he was on really good teams in Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City that had some fundamental flaws. They got to one
Speaker 1: NBA finals. They obviously had a three one lead and
Speaker 1: loss to the Warriors. Katie was not good in Game six,
Speaker 1: But dudes of stud he's the greatest score of this generation. Um,
Speaker 1: and I think he's an lead all time great. And
Speaker 1: then you kind of got a factor in that his
Speaker 1: career more mirrors most careers, like Lebron having forty seven
Speaker 1: on his birthday, like Lebron's that he could not be
Speaker 1: a human being, right. But but the point is, like
Speaker 1: Lebron his career, and he's had some injuries here recently,
Speaker 1: but most guys, most guys that that play ten fifteen
Speaker 1: years in the NBA have years where they get injured,
Speaker 1: they have wonky exits from teams they have you know,
Speaker 1: it's like Larry Bird's top five all time player in
Speaker 1: the modern Arab basketball. I'll fight anybody who says otherwise
Speaker 1: because we're just completely misremembering him and Magic running the league.
Speaker 1: But like you know, Bird's career was cut short by injuries,
Speaker 1: and then there was the bone spurs one year, get
Speaker 1: bad back, a little bit of everything, right, Magic got hurt,
Speaker 1: you know, had been hurt one year. Um, Jordan's obviously
Speaker 1: early in his career, had the broken foot. So you know,
Speaker 1: KB had the broken foot one year and he had
Speaker 1: the Achilles tenant tear, and yet here he is in
Speaker 1: the conversation as the best player in the league, in
Speaker 1: the conversation's best player in the league, And UM, I
Speaker 1: don't know Sarah gets the chance to cover it. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think I need to do NBA thoughts or
Speaker 1: college hoops thoughts. Um as we we we bridged the
Speaker 1: gap from twenty two to twenty three. There is absolutely
Speaker 1: greatness in basketball and great stories in basketball. We'll cover
Speaker 1: them all here. So, UM, I just I don't need
Speaker 1: to do like a daily update with you guys. What
Speaker 1: I do love is bringing people's stories to life. And
Speaker 1: this is Sarah cu Stock who works for Fox Sports,
Speaker 1: who works for Yes and covers college hoops, covers the NBA,
Speaker 1: and do does it both with incredible grace class and
Speaker 1: she's very very good at what she does. Here's my
Speaker 1: conversation with um, how good a player were you? Oh?
Speaker 1: You're coming with the hot the hot questions early I will,
Speaker 1: I mean it's just like just an open question like now,
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you do this for a living, now
Speaker 1: right where you're I know how I would describe myself
Speaker 1: to answer that question. I was a winning player. My
Speaker 1: teams want when that that's it. I don't know how
Speaker 1: individually good or how you you look at breaking down
Speaker 1: different players in terms of skill set, stats all that stuff,
Speaker 1: But um, I felt like I contributed to winning and
Speaker 1: to me, that's the number one key. Okay, I love that.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, I I just I have this thing
Speaker 1: where first somebody says they're a winning player. That's the
Speaker 1: ultimate compliment, right, I mean, that's why the heck do
Speaker 1: we keep school? Well, I said about myself. So I
Speaker 1: don't know if no, it's okay, like I I would say, honestly,
Speaker 1: if I was I was being candid, that would say
Speaker 1: the same thing. Everybody's a while, you're a great past.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, yes, that that that my my skill expertise.
Speaker 1: But the point was that I felt like I did
Speaker 1: whatever it took to give my team a chance to win.
Speaker 1: And the greatest pride I have in my time, at
Speaker 1: least at Okal in the state is it was they
Speaker 1: were struggling with seventeen and fifteen two years in a row,
Speaker 1: and you look at the records of three years I
Speaker 1: was there. I felt like I changed, helped change the
Speaker 1: program back into a winning program. And I see that's okay.
Speaker 1: So were you, like again, give me a give me
Speaker 1: a style of player that that you were. I think
Speaker 1: I to that point of what a team needed. I
Speaker 1: think it was different. You asked what I was when
Speaker 1: I was a freshman starting on my you know, first
Speaker 1: the high school team, when I was a junior senior
Speaker 1: in high school, when I was a freshman coming in
Speaker 1: at DePaul, and you know, started as opposed to I
Speaker 1: think it always varies, it's changed, it's fluid. Um, I
Speaker 1: was always a very good three point shooter. Um, I
Speaker 1: probably attacked a lot more, handled the ball more in
Speaker 1: a way of creating and scoring more when and uh,
Speaker 1: when I was in high school. We like to Paul,
Speaker 1: I don't know how familiar you are with h I mean,
Speaker 1: give shouts Doug Bruno as I'm wearing my topol T shirt.
Speaker 1: But even back that he understood, given the personnel we play,
Speaker 1: we played fat like. We very much played the way
Speaker 1: the NBA now has transformed into. We shot a ton
Speaker 1: of threes, played super fast. We had a big that
Speaker 1: could run and was essentially four of us that were
Speaker 1: five ten guards and get it and go, And that's
Speaker 1: what it was. About like always tops in the country,
Speaker 1: you know, one to three, four, five and assist, um.
Speaker 1: And that was the style of play. So I was
Speaker 1: a one or of two. But I also you know,
Speaker 1: given who we were, a lot of our we did
Speaker 1: a switching scheme on defense, so I'd guard bigs, I'd
Speaker 1: guard point guards. Um. But with all of that being said,
Speaker 1: that's why I just I think just the ability to
Speaker 1: be versatile. A lot of what I part of myself
Speaker 1: was on the defense. Ven though, Like that's where even
Speaker 1: when I that's why I played when I came in
Speaker 1: high school. UM, because I could always guard the best
Speaker 1: opposing player, and I understood that at an early age.
Speaker 1: I also think to just like growing up playing with
Speaker 1: my brother, playing with boys, Um there was no girls
Speaker 1: teams at the time when I was in middle school,
Speaker 1: and then play with the boys teams through you know,
Speaker 1: junior high and um, just always getting in run. Like
Speaker 1: a lot of what I did was not predicated on
Speaker 1: me having size or being stronger or being more physical,
Speaker 1: Like I had to figure those things out, and I
Speaker 1: think that carried with me then what my game looked
Speaker 1: like and what what it is that I took to
Speaker 1: how I played as I got older and got got better. Um,
Speaker 1: you finish up, and there's the there's there's the now.
Speaker 1: What right? Um, when you're playing, did you have any
Speaker 1: I mean some women go overseas and play obviously, Um
Speaker 1: what was it? What was your plan in your brain?
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have any If I had
Speaker 1: a plan, like, that's the wild thing when you are
Speaker 1: so focused on something on basketball, Like growing up, I
Speaker 1: was always so focused on sports, improving its sports. And
Speaker 1: I knew the value of education. School good great. I
Speaker 1: cared a lot about getting good grades. I cared about
Speaker 1: being at the top of my class, but I didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily think about that in terms of, oh what what
Speaker 1: would I like then to turn this into as a profession.
Speaker 1: And so I thought, as long as I hit the books,
Speaker 1: kept my head down, like, kept getting good great, I'd
Speaker 1: figure that part out. And going into college, I initially
Speaker 1: was I was a huge when I was in you know,
Speaker 1: junior high high school. I love math, so any any math, calculus, uh,
Speaker 1: geometry whatever. I can't even algebra, Like. I was all
Speaker 1: in on numbers, all in on math. So going into college,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, of course I'll go to business school.
Speaker 1: I'll go to be finance counting whatever crunch numbers. UH.
Speaker 1: Didn't think much about that. And then I took a
Speaker 1: and like the Jenied classes I was taking my freshman year,
Speaker 1: it took a public speaking class and it both terrified
Speaker 1: me but also like gave give me an adrenaline rush
Speaker 1: and was exhilarating in a way that I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: wait a second, this is I like this and I
Speaker 1: always love to to write. UM. Writing was a big
Speaker 1: component of what I'd like to do since I was
Speaker 1: a kid, the research part of it, and so that
Speaker 1: changed into me getting into communications. But it wasn't necessarily
Speaker 1: broadcast Like I thought nothing of being on TV, nothing
Speaker 1: about I don't even think I fully understood broadcast journalism.
Speaker 1: So fast forward within communications, I was double majoring in sociology.
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be a social worker.
Speaker 1: UM mindored a juvenile justice. When I tell you, I
Speaker 1: was all across the board. I was all across the board.
Speaker 1: But I appreciated trying different thing like I appreciated things
Speaker 1: I was learning in college. I end up being at
Speaker 1: a point and I'm very thankful for this, UH for
Speaker 1: Nepaul finishing up undergrad my fourth year and I was
Speaker 1: able to start grad school classes while I was still
Speaker 1: in my fourth year, so I was able to finish
Speaker 1: grad school and five of years that allowed me to
Speaker 1: keep my scholarship. Worked in our sports information department that
Speaker 1: fifth year, and I was getting my master's in Corporate
Speaker 1: and Multicultural Communication. But during that time, I then had
Speaker 1: the opportunity and ms some individuals to be a runner
Speaker 1: and for ESPNS Big Ten football games because all in
Speaker 1: that area. My brother played in Northwestern. Like, come check
Speaker 1: it out, see what it is, See what it's about.
Speaker 1: Is to be just good learning experience for you. Easy
Speaker 1: drives to Michigan, Wisconsin. Where So where are you living
Speaker 1: at the time? Chicago, So I'm still going. I'm finishing.
Speaker 1: I'm in Lincoln Park, in Lincoln Park address since I
Speaker 1: don't live there anymore. I was on Seminary Seminary and
Speaker 1: Webster a campus right on by local Shack and Sweet
Speaker 1: Mandy Bees. Shouts to Chicago and Lincoln Park into Paul
Speaker 1: people that know those spots. But but I was. I
Speaker 1: was right there, and so I would go to work
Speaker 1: in our sports information department Monday through Thursday, eight to
Speaker 1: five or whatever the hours, working to night school classes
Speaker 1: Monday through Thursday to nine thirty, and then every Thursday
Speaker 1: night I would leave to go to Wisconsin or go
Speaker 1: to Michigan or Michigan wherever, the wherever the noon game
Speaker 1: was on Saturday, set day, be it beyond set on
Speaker 1: five am on Friday, do that all day Friday game, Saturday,
Speaker 1: drive home Saturday, and then Sunday was like all my
Speaker 1: all my school work. Um, I did not sleep for
Speaker 1: in a time, an entire year. But what I learned
Speaker 1: in that year, and I also got to do some
Speaker 1: high school like high school broadcasts of same thing, Illinois
Speaker 1: high school state championships and some football stuff I did
Speaker 1: not fully understand. Despite playing and despite watching and seeing
Speaker 1: that the way a production truck work, the way TV work,
Speaker 1: the way live TV. I got blown away the first
Speaker 1: time I sat in a TV truck. Whatever. I always
Speaker 1: tell the story, and I need to actually look back
Speaker 1: what the game was, but I think it was a Wisconsin, Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: Michigan UH football game. When I saw like red light
Speaker 1: goes on, saw what happens, producer, the director, see what
Speaker 1: happens with all of that, I was blown away and
Speaker 1: I was like, how can I figure out doing this
Speaker 1: for a living. Are you kidding me? Um? And so
Speaker 1: that was it and there was a billion you know,
Speaker 1: twist turns path obviously, uh, getting to the point where
Speaker 1: I'm at today. But but that that's what triggered me
Speaker 1: to say, Wow, this is something that I didn't fully
Speaker 1: understand what it was, what it meant, how to do it.
Speaker 1: But I could be around sports and I could be
Speaker 1: around something that seems extremely challenging, um, but gives me
Speaker 1: that same adrenaline rush that I always felt as a player.
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports
Speaker 1: Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app
Speaker 1: search f s R to listen live. You know it's
Speaker 1: interesting is because you know you're in the truck and
Speaker 1: your runner for the for the Big Ten games. But
Speaker 1: even as you're as you're like, I want to do
Speaker 1: this right, like I wanted. That's what I want to do.
Speaker 1: I want to do something around right like that. That's
Speaker 1: actually my basketball story a little bit like my dad
Speaker 1: was a basketball coach, college basketball coach, and then you
Speaker 1: know they get fired Lovvy State, but I'm still a
Speaker 1: love around basketball and I went to I remember the
Speaker 1: game I've been in state terming games. I've been to
Speaker 1: Final Fource. But when I went to an LM, you
Speaker 1: played Mission, Went played New Mexico State. It was the
Speaker 1: game after Hank Gathers died. I just it was. It
Speaker 1: was at the Long Beach Arena, and I was I
Speaker 1: had met Hank Gathers the summer before at the Pump
Speaker 1: Brothers basketball camp. They played at cal State Northridge. They
Speaker 1: played pickup ball at night, and like the camp was,
Speaker 1: it was not yet like a full where they really
Speaker 1: knew what they were doing after hours. Camp was more
Speaker 1: like a day camp and they had a staying The
Speaker 1: camp was at Campbell Hall, which is a private school.
Speaker 1: It's for the holidays. Boy, it went like through holiday.
Speaker 1: Just the camp was at Campbell Hall. But then somehow
Speaker 1: he left. They gotten like rooms to stay at it
Speaker 1: at cal State Northridge, so we had like free time.
Speaker 1: We like walk over and watch these guys play and
Speaker 1: and they had a couple of Orange County guys where
Speaker 1: I grew up, and so I became an LMU fan.
Speaker 1: And then I was actually watching the game when he died.
Speaker 1: So I go to the game first gaming n a
Speaker 1: tournament and um, you know it was the most emotional
Speaker 1: sporting event I've ever been to, especially because I had
Speaker 1: been to the Long Beach Arena a hundred times because
Speaker 1: when my dad was an assistant of Long which State,
Speaker 1: that's where they played, And so it's not a huge arena.
Speaker 1: It's like an old convention center, like on a thirteen
Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen thousand seats, like they'd never get into
Speaker 1: a tournament now, and yet the whole places maroon and
Speaker 1: there's forty four is everywhere, And it was it was
Speaker 1: when went when bow Kimball shot the free throw with
Speaker 1: his left hand and made it, and people grown, people
Speaker 1: who had no connectional real knowledge of hand. Gallager just bawling.
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to do this right, so
Speaker 1: but doing it and seeing somebody who enough guys that
Speaker 1: look like you, that's reasonable. You're watching the Big Ten,
Speaker 1: You're watching ESPN. But outside of Cilent reporters, there isn't
Speaker 1: There aren't women right like I could you? I don't
Speaker 1: know what when was the point where you can conceptualize
Speaker 1: I can't just don't have to do this some sideline
Speaker 1: or do this with a microphone, like I can call
Speaker 1: the games. Now you're calling one of the elite NBA
Speaker 1: teams games like it's it's really you endorsed, like incredible
Speaker 1: breakthrough in that you're doing two things that people couldn't
Speaker 1: do before. One obviously I have to be a man,
Speaker 1: and two you had to play in the league. Right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that people truly understand how
Speaker 1: the breakthrough that that you've had specifically. Um, but again,
Speaker 1: let's let's go back. So all right, so you're watching
Speaker 1: and you're a runner, and you're not sleeping, and you're like,
Speaker 1: I want to do this, okay, and so what was
Speaker 1: what was the next step in trying to execute some
Speaker 1: sort of plan that, as you said, didn't really exist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to keep it brief. The next step so still doing
Speaker 1: the being here for hours, given the way this trajectory went.
Speaker 1: But um, but I think during that time, so the
Speaker 1: grad school stuff, that there was still thoughts about okay,
Speaker 1: what other what other career paths, the different things that
Speaker 1: I was thinking about trying to do. But while I
Speaker 1: was a runner and you know this, and and especially
Speaker 1: in a college football setting or whatever happened, you gain
Speaker 1: a familiarity your week to week doing this. The crew
Speaker 1: was was Mark Jones, Bob Davies, Holly row Um. But
Speaker 1: when you're there more often, so I'd sit in, you know,
Speaker 1: back with with the tape guys and they'd show me
Speaker 1: how they run highlight like they The more I was there,
Speaker 1: I was understanding all the different parties with the TD. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is how we're pushing buttons obviously watching the producer,
Speaker 1: the director. Hey, we need you before the game. Timing
Speaker 1: is paramount, so we need you to hold out the team.
Speaker 1: We need you to go down at perdue and hold
Speaker 1: out the team before it's the exact moment we need
Speaker 1: them to run out for you know, just all of
Speaker 1: those different stats guys not here, can you do stats today?
Speaker 1: We don't have a spot or can you go be
Speaker 1: a spotter today? So every there was different aspects of
Speaker 1: it that I was learning so much about the entirety
Speaker 1: of the truck and because of it, and again I
Speaker 1: say it like just the kindness of the bunch of
Speaker 1: the photo camera guys sitting around. You know, it's long days. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, I think this would be helpful. Let's
Speaker 1: go do a fake interview. Let's grab these this this
Speaker 1: player sitting over here, Let's do a fake interview. Get
Speaker 1: you some demo reel. Let's do a fake stand up.
Speaker 1: Let's so with that being said, more of that, I
Speaker 1: was starting to compile a little bit of a demo reel.
Speaker 1: I was starting to call a couple of college basketball
Speaker 1: games as an analysts, a couple you know, college high
Speaker 1: school games than the Illinois high school state football games.
Speaker 1: Come on, hey, can you do the sideline reporting for
Speaker 1: there's eight there's eight classes in Illinois. So it's right
Speaker 1: after Thanksgiving. You've got four games on Friday, four games
Speaker 1: on Saturday. All of a sudden, I got all the
Speaker 1: reels of all the stuff, but probably terrible work at
Speaker 1: the time, but that that built that up. Um, trying
Speaker 1: to get into it, made some some in roads with
Speaker 1: those in Chicago having played there and knowing some people
Speaker 1: with those at ESPN and you know, the ESPN plus
Speaker 1: regional all that stuff started to get into it a
Speaker 1: little bit more. And then a year or after not
Speaker 1: you know, barely being able to make ends meet, pay
Speaker 1: my bills, eating a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Um.
Speaker 1: You probably are familiar with the story. Maggie Dixon, sister
Speaker 1: of Jamie Dixon. She was the head of Uh. The
Speaker 1: um the assistant coach at to Paul with Doug Bruno
Speaker 1: and she ends up getting the offer to take the
Speaker 1: Army job. It's around let's say September. So I just
Speaker 1: finished grad school. I was working on my thesis, trying
Speaker 1: to put together TV stuff. She's taking the job. Doug
Speaker 1: calls and he's like, look, we're gonna be very good.
Speaker 1: I think this year. I know someone who know I
Speaker 1: need someone who knows how I recruit, knows all our stuff,
Speaker 1: knows these players. Um. I understand you're trying to get
Speaker 1: into TV, but would you consider coaching, comming and coaching
Speaker 1: for at least a season? Uh. And at the time, again,
Speaker 1: I really was trying to put things together, make ends meet.
Speaker 1: I obviously have all the love for to Paul, those players,
Speaker 1: everything about it. Um. So I did that for a
Speaker 1: season and it was amazing, amazing, and I loved every
Speaker 1: bit of it. It was all over the country recruiting.
Speaker 1: I love that aspect of it. Um. I still see
Speaker 1: a girl three. Um. But the scouting aspect, all of it,
Speaker 1: and UM, I think all of those saying I called
Speaker 1: some of the individuals that I had been connected with
Speaker 1: with the TV side of things, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what do you think about me? And They're like, to
Speaker 1: be honest, if if this is a lot of what
Speaker 1: you want to do, this this will benefit you, but
Speaker 1: just do it for a year and be done. So
Speaker 1: I did it. We end up going to the Sweet
Speaker 1: sixteen UM lost l s u uh in. You know
Speaker 1: in the Sweet sixteen game, Sylvia Fowls was playing playing
Speaker 1: back then and um and so I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I I love this. I want to do this is
Speaker 1: I may want to do this forever. And there was
Speaker 1: there was a talk Doug and he's like, didn't stay like,
Speaker 1: just keep rolling with us. You're already you know, starting
Speaker 1: to figure things out now. And but there was a tug.
Speaker 1: There was the TV thing. I wanted to see. There
Speaker 1: was enough of a challenge and enough of a um
Speaker 1: just attraction to what that was to see if I
Speaker 1: could figure that out and piece that together. And so
Speaker 1: end up going back to the TV stuff and that's
Speaker 1: where you know, fast forward a little bit. It was
Speaker 1: doing some you know, some work on high school games
Speaker 1: and then the local Fox station wf D Fox News
Speaker 1: director saw and said, hey, we may need you to
Speaker 1: come do some They ended up having this you know
Speaker 1: this project you call it called Live news Cameras. That
Speaker 1: was the chopper shots of all the affiliates of Fox
Speaker 1: across the country. So I would sit there and show
Speaker 1: five in the morning. I go from like five to
Speaker 1: noon and just talk into it. And this is when
Speaker 1: things were just getting going with different the digital space,
Speaker 1: what people wanted to watch. And I would literally just
Speaker 1: go and click on these different things. And you look
Speaker 1: at car chases, You look at like it was wild.
Speaker 1: But it allowed me one to be there and just
Speaker 1: continue to get used to talking and to then that
Speaker 1: progressed into oh, we got the Bears, so hey, can
Speaker 1: we send you out? You're here, can we send you
Speaker 1: out to do a feature with the Bears? You know
Speaker 1: what we we could use a backup sports anchor for
Speaker 1: for the weekends. Um, let's try you out, try and
Speaker 1: do this. And so then I started filling in there
Speaker 1: Comcast Sports Net. So so okay, when you did, I know,
Speaker 1: I'm really this is this is what I don't like
Speaker 1: telling the story because it goes it's true, true, true
Speaker 1: all over the place. It's it's it's okay. But um,
Speaker 1: your first let's let's start with this. Your first college
Speaker 1: basketball game you did. Do you remember which one? It
Speaker 1: was South Florida to Paul Women's Basketball on Fox Sports
Speaker 1: something Yes, yes, okay? Um? And who do you remember
Speaker 1: the play person? Yes, it was Dave Kaplan. It was
Speaker 1: Dave Kaplan. I also called some. It's funny we UM
Speaker 1: did some. I did some high school games as well
Speaker 1: with Eric Collins, who is the play by play voice
Speaker 1: UM play by play voice of the Charlotte Hornets. And
Speaker 1: he always jokes about that because he used to call
Speaker 1: some of my high school and college games. And then
Speaker 1: one of my first high school games I did was
Speaker 1: also with him. My first two UR I was still playing.
Speaker 1: I did a guy named Pete Jerseys who used to
Speaker 1: run ESPN Regional. Uh. He and Sean Murphy gave me
Speaker 1: to TCU games. My first game was TCU Butler at Hinkle.
Speaker 1: That's a good games. Sad was the coach of Yes,
Speaker 1: his dad's your but in his first run Yeah, and uh,
Speaker 1: Hinkle had not been redone. It was before the kind
Speaker 1: of Butler thing really took off. Um. Scott Robisch, who
Speaker 1: had been my teammate and close friend of Oaklham State,
Speaker 1: was playing it. But like that's the weird one. Was
Speaker 1: calling the game of a guy who you played with
Speaker 1: right at Oaklahoma State. Like You're like, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: my friend. I could tell you a lot of little
Speaker 1: details about him that no one would ever want to
Speaker 1: share on television, right, Um, so I did. I did
Speaker 1: the Paul Butler and then I did I mean see
Speaker 1: me at TCU Butler and then I did TCU Texas
Speaker 1: Tech in Port Worth and um Estri was my my
Speaker 1: host both times. He's a huge he's the TCU guy.
Speaker 1: And then I was having beer a beer with Peters
Speaker 1: invite me up to his hotel room with a couple
Speaker 1: other guys. It was like a suite and Fort Worth
Speaker 1: was an event, and you know, he was like, you
Speaker 1: know you should do this, blah blah blah. I mean
Speaker 1: when I got back to my hotel room and the
Speaker 1: red light in my phone was blinking and I got
Speaker 1: offered to play with the Salina Rattlers and the I
Speaker 1: B A and but I had to leave the next
Speaker 1: morning and then play two nights in Des Moines and
Speaker 1: then travel and so I did that. So I I
Speaker 1: left the chance to do games, then came back. My
Speaker 1: first ESPN game was with I know, you know him
Speaker 1: what you know him as Dave reston the Big Ten Network.
Speaker 1: And this is the part that I'm interested in for you.
Speaker 1: We did our first game. We did a little tournament deal.
Speaker 1: It was Colorado and u n C Charlotte back when
Speaker 1: you UNC Charlotte was very good, and we did we
Speaker 1: did a double header. We get in the car and
Speaker 1: are the guy who hired me is getting Dan Steer
Speaker 1: And Dan was really good with feedback. But it was
Speaker 1: really honest with feedback. And you know, I've done like
Speaker 1: two games before, and I've done an audition for ESPN.
Speaker 1: I've gotten off for these games. And Rever is the
Speaker 1: most prepared human being I've ever been around. But it
Speaker 1: was his first ESPN games as well. And I never
Speaker 1: forget this. We're driving around, were in Charlotte. We're going
Speaker 1: to have a bite to eat after which we did.
Speaker 1: The games were like I feel like conquering heroes and
Speaker 1: he's like, what do you think? So Steer calls us
Speaker 1: and put him on speaker. He's like, what do you think? Right? Man?
Speaker 1: We be killed it. It It was great. He's like, now
Speaker 1: you guys are fucking terrible. You know, Doug, You Doug,
Speaker 1: you talked too much. You talk at the wrong times
Speaker 1: and never like too much information lessons more. Anyway, when
Speaker 1: you did your games, did you get feedback? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got honest feedback. I also think to doing it. So
Speaker 1: the things that I did or one it was the
Speaker 1: very very first thing I did was in that analyst
Speaker 1: role because you just played, Hey, you're gonna call a game.
Speaker 1: You're gonna call women's basketball game. But then as I
Speaker 1: started to do more and try and piece things together,
Speaker 1: it was, oh, we think you could be a sideline
Speaker 1: reporter on you know, I do college football games, which
Speaker 1: that I knew real well or you know, different than
Speaker 1: it became the MLS games, and it became indoor lacrosse,
Speaker 1: and it became NHL stuff, And it always different processes
Speaker 1: of where I was at in terms of understanding won
Speaker 1: the game, the sport, and to the actual TV mechanics
Speaker 1: behind it. And so I feel like I but I
Speaker 1: say that to say I was also in the Chicago
Speaker 1: market and like, in some ways it was amazing because
Speaker 1: I was in a place where people had known me.
Speaker 1: So I got some opportunities, um, which I'm super grateful
Speaker 1: and thankful for. But it's also I would get crushed
Speaker 1: on the radio or people would say, you know, when
Speaker 1: I started to do more things that were of of
Speaker 1: higher attention or bigger you know, bigger type games or
Speaker 1: or events. Um But I also think the people I
Speaker 1: work for were always which I'm thankful for. I would
Speaker 1: always be the first to say, I'm like, I played
Speaker 1: like I I had coaches that would cuss me out
Speaker 1: and yell at me. I'm like, I need you to
Speaker 1: be honest because I want to get better and I
Speaker 1: want to improve. Um So I do think that throughout
Speaker 1: the course of my and I could drop many names
Speaker 1: but career at all different junctures people like yeah that
Speaker 1: was that wasn't good or and then begin to point
Speaker 1: out specifics of things I also think, and I'm is
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this? I mean, the first thing someone
Speaker 1: told me is like, you gotta you gotta watch yourself,
Speaker 1: like you gotta watch back. And there's nothing I hate
Speaker 1: more to this day, there's nothing I date more. And
Speaker 1: but that was something I um early on was it
Speaker 1: was for ESPN regional. Um so it would be on
Speaker 1: different different parts of ESPN, whether it was plus you
Speaker 1: you know sometimes we're in ESPN two. But it was
Speaker 1: a big East college football pack and I was doing
Speaker 1: sideline reporting, and so I struggled so much. And this
Speaker 1: was early on watching myself that I think I went
Speaker 1: three weekends, let's say three weekends and games and hadn't
Speaker 1: watched anything back um, and my producer was asking something.
Speaker 1: And then I finally went back and I was whatever,
Speaker 1: I whatever the the things I was saying or doing
Speaker 1: what I was like, man, girl, if you would have
Speaker 1: just watched this after the first weekend, this is correct.
Speaker 1: This is all correctable things. And it's one thing I
Speaker 1: want to have someone tell you or pointed out, but
Speaker 1: two it's the same as playing, like watching film. You
Speaker 1: could have a coach tell you something till he's blue
Speaker 1: in the face. But if you sit down I watched
Speaker 1: the film, you're like, oh, I, oh, I get it now.
Speaker 1: I thought I did this and um, so that was
Speaker 1: really important. But I do think that, um throughout the
Speaker 1: course of my career and still just like a lot
Speaker 1: of people with tough love or honest critique, and I
Speaker 1: love that that. That's that's the area in all in
Speaker 1: in life that I oh, I want the feedback. I
Speaker 1: want the feedback because I want to improve. I want
Speaker 1: to be better at whether it's professionally personally you name it. Um,
Speaker 1: so I eat that stuff up. And and so I
Speaker 1: thankfully have had a lot of people that that were
Speaker 1: good about that. I think that's the difference in the
Speaker 1: former athletes and non former athletes, right is that? And
Speaker 1: and like some former athletes are super sensitive towards they
Speaker 1: don't really want feedback. They want out of boys, right,
Speaker 1: but most most really we've you've been coached, you want
Speaker 1: to be coached. And what's interesting is that. And maybe
Speaker 1: as you've climbed to now where you're at an elite
Speaker 1: level in the broadcasting space, I would guess that people
Speaker 1: you know, there's lots of executives if they would never
Speaker 1: give you feedback now, like I need it more than everyone,
Speaker 1: right because because now it's just like everybody just thinks, well,
Speaker 1: she's star, she knows what she's doing, which you do,
Speaker 1: but you, yeah, you can use it like, hey, did
Speaker 1: you know you had like a little crutch word like
Speaker 1: really like yeah, you always say such and such like
Speaker 1: well it's really helpful, But nobody says that when you
Speaker 1: actually get a couple of jobs, because they think that
Speaker 1: you're either your ego or that's not their place. It's
Speaker 1: a weird thing. I also think it's such a fascinating
Speaker 1: as you continue to you know, being this business longer. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's such a subjective business. So that's where I find
Speaker 1: it interesting. Of it's one, it's it's great and especially
Speaker 1: to you think about individual so are younger getting into this.
Speaker 1: It's great to get feedback, it's great to get criticism.
Speaker 1: It's it's great to want that. But also being um,
Speaker 1: I don't know if if smart enough for intelligence, but
Speaker 1: figuring out, okay, how do I make sure I'm picking
Speaker 1: and choosing, Like I appreciate this, but I actually don't
Speaker 1: agree with you, and I'm still the face doing this.
Speaker 1: I'm still the one saying this. So your opinion on
Speaker 1: this and especially too, and like that's where there's a
Speaker 1: balance of it. Um. I think that's where as I
Speaker 1: got I had individuals say, oh you should I think
Speaker 1: if you do it this way or these you know,
Speaker 1: how you frame these questions. And then at some point
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a second, I actually I don't
Speaker 1: think I agree with that, and I'd rather I'd rather
Speaker 1: go down with with what I think or what I
Speaker 1: think is um the approach in perspective, I want to
Speaker 1: take as opposed to another. So that's why I think this, um,
Speaker 1: this really is an interesting business in that in that regard,
Speaker 1: because there are parts of it that it's not just
Speaker 1: cut and dry of what's this is good, this is bad?
Speaker 1: And so that's where I think there's a balance of
Speaker 1: how you continue to prove figure that out, but also
Speaker 1: do your style or what's best for you. What was
Speaker 1: your what was your big break right because you had
Speaker 1: done a lot of regional games, You've done sideline, you know,
Speaker 1: but what was your big break in in in broadcasting?
Speaker 1: I would say getting hired full time um by it's
Speaker 1: now NBC Sports but Comcast Sports Net, and I had
Speaker 1: been doing a ton of freelance work for them, a
Speaker 1: lot of it. I did a show called high School Lights,
Speaker 1: and so I'd go out. It was you know, high
Speaker 1: school sports really big in Chicago, Chicago area football, basketball,
Speaker 1: So go out do a story. It's it was a
Speaker 1: show every Friday. Um I'd fill in and do some
Speaker 1: freelance stuff, bulls games, um some bare stuff. As I
Speaker 1: told you, I was doing some things for five But
Speaker 1: that was where it was a compilation of doing some
Speaker 1: work here for ESPN and doing some games, doing some
Speaker 1: stuff for Fox, doing this or that, and got hired
Speaker 1: full time to be there, you know, one of one
Speaker 1: of their anchor reporter whatever it is. We got feature reporter. Uh.
Speaker 1: It was everything. And so I'll say for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1: One the consistency of it, as you know, and I
Speaker 1: ended up wanting to give me the double shifts, uh,
Speaker 1: you know on the weekends. This is where life life.
Speaker 1: When you talk to people of the compromises you make,
Speaker 1: you know, working every every weekend, every night, um, but
Speaker 1: getting a chance to anchor getting a chance to host,
Speaker 1: getting chances sideline report, um do all these different figure
Speaker 1: out how to write an actual feature and put together
Speaker 1: a story and go through clips and um, every aspect
Speaker 1: of TV. I one had amazing people that helped helped
Speaker 1: me grow and learn there. But too, you're on the
Speaker 1: stage of I was covering the Bulls of Bears, the Cubs,
Speaker 1: the black Hawks, and the White Sox, and I got
Speaker 1: put on early which I knew nothing about hockey, and
Speaker 1: it was it was rough early on. And that's where
Speaker 1: I talk of getting crushed in some of the you know,
Speaker 1: in some of the Chicago m Chicago media critique because
Speaker 1: I was covering this black Hawks team that it was.
Speaker 1: It was up and coming, so as in taves And
Speaker 1: and Caine were young, seabrook Keith like they were, they
Speaker 1: were just getting going. Is when Derrick Rose my first
Speaker 1: year was Derek Rose's rookie year, um, so covering the
Speaker 1: Bulls team as well, cover them through the playoffs. So
Speaker 1: it was a very big stage when I one was
Speaker 1: learning hockey, um new basketball, but still learning the mechanics
Speaker 1: of TV. But I had to have a quick learning curve.
Speaker 1: And when I was able to do those things and
Speaker 1: excel at some of those, I think that's what then.
Speaker 1: You know, that's where I felt like, Okay, I've established
Speaker 1: myself enough that I'm just gonna do everything I can
Speaker 1: to soak up all of this knowledge, keep getting better
Speaker 1: and um that that was it and that was the place.
Speaker 1: And while I was there, I was still able then
Speaker 1: still called some um some women's college games as an
Speaker 1: analyst for ESPN. Still was able to do some other
Speaker 1: a few other different things, uh staying in terms of
Speaker 1: actually calling games. But the rest of it that that
Speaker 1: to me is what what made me in many ways
Speaker 1: is what I am in the TV business. How did
Speaker 1: you get the yes job. Um, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: I did my my agent. It's sent in. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was excited about the Nets move into Brooklyn. Um.
Speaker 1: I think my agents sent in a real I was
Speaker 1: covering the bulls at the time, obviously, but also some
Speaker 1: of those who who's your agent? Who was my agent
Speaker 1: was Mark lep Selter. Um. Okay, so does he tell you?
Speaker 1: Did he tell you hey the Nets? Nets? Uh? Net's
Speaker 1: got a gig? Or do you just do it? You know?
Speaker 1: Like I don't remember. To be honest, I don't really
Speaker 1: I don't really remember. But I remember go out there
Speaker 1: for an interview in the the idea of um, the
Speaker 1: idea of fully entrenching myself after covering which I looked,
Speaker 1: you know, covering the NFL, the NBA, uh, the NHL, MLB,
Speaker 1: all that stuff in a team that was making the
Speaker 1: move to Brooklyn. Like that, that's the year it was
Speaker 1: making a move to Brooklyn. I would go as a
Speaker 1: sideline reporter, UM, travel with the team, be entirely immersed
Speaker 1: and entirely immersed in the NBA. UM, And to me,
Speaker 1: that was you know, I was always uh born and
Speaker 1: raised in Chicago. Love Chicago, Chicago's home but always love
Speaker 1: New York. I traveled out there a bunch for work
Speaker 1: and I'm a city I'm a city girl and I
Speaker 1: love city, and so the idea of being there and
Speaker 1: then I met, you know, a phone call with our
Speaker 1: producer and still coordinating producer now game producer now Frank
Speaker 1: to Grace and he was amazing, John Philippelli. Uh, just
Speaker 1: every everyone in you know in the network. Uh. I
Speaker 1: was just so impressed by And so it was. It
Speaker 1: was challenging too, because there was there was opportunities in Chicago,
Speaker 1: and I think just having you know, grew up there
Speaker 1: been there work there. Um. But yeah, it was the
Speaker 1: right timing and the timing of the team and the
Speaker 1: excitement around that. I think it's something I'll never forget
Speaker 1: just how special that felt opening up Barkley Center. Um,
Speaker 1: I just moved out there. You know, jay Z is
Speaker 1: having his whatever eight days of concerts, and it just
Speaker 1: the the idea around, as I said, like my love
Speaker 1: for the game, I love for the NBA. Being able
Speaker 1: to to really just pour myself into that with something
Speaker 1: that that I thought it was so cool and I'm
Speaker 1: so so grateful for the hardest thing. And this is
Speaker 1: again this is my commentary, not yours? Do you tell
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong? The hardest thing when you're doing sideline,
Speaker 1: for you is you actually really know the game right,
Speaker 1: played coach, cover it, really know it again? And and
Speaker 1: I'm not here to disparage any silent reporters that didn't
Speaker 1: play or coach, but there's a difference, right like you,
Speaker 1: as you've shown, you can very easily slide into analysts
Speaker 1: here do that job. Most sideline reporters cannot. But with
Speaker 1: that comes the it's powerful but the challenge of asking
Speaker 1: questions but not trying to prove yourself, right. The hardest
Speaker 1: thing in being a side on reporter is when you
Speaker 1: want to you want the person to kind of respect
Speaker 1: you and understand that you know, you understand what's going
Speaker 1: on in the game, But really it's about their answer,
Speaker 1: not about your question. So there's these competing things, right,
Speaker 1: and people get themselves and how did you do that?
Speaker 1: How did it? Because you're very very good at being
Speaker 1: concise and asking quick questions and not trying to prove yourself.
Speaker 1: How did you? How did you do that? Especially in
Speaker 1: the world in the NBA where you hadn't like these
Speaker 1: dudes didn't know you and uh, I think I think
Speaker 1: I'm someone if you know me as a person, Uh,
Speaker 1: two fold on that, I come on I'm easy and
Speaker 1: I come on slow. So I always I always hope
Speaker 1: and assume, and especially it's the team year around a
Speaker 1: lot or whoever, that at some point eventually you're gonna
Speaker 1: you're gonna get to know me. And I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: come on strong at first, but you're gonna eventually get
Speaker 1: to know that I know the game, where I played
Speaker 1: the game, and it takes a while. Sometimes people don't
Speaker 1: realize that, but I think that was a a process
Speaker 1: of even when I was in Chicago or covering, like
Speaker 1: at some point it'll hopefully, hopefully about the questions I asked,
Speaker 1: the way I present myself, the conversations we have um
Speaker 1: that will come across, and what you'll respect me for
Speaker 1: those reasons. And too, I think from the time I
Speaker 1: was a kid, like, my personality is not ever to
Speaker 1: make anyone think that you know, I'm the smartest person
Speaker 1: in the room, and so it didn't matter to me.
Speaker 1: I was always very much of a UM. I even
Speaker 1: think about this is that when you're asking what type
Speaker 1: of player was I like, what what type of teammate,
Speaker 1: am I, I know that what matters is we want
Speaker 1: to get an amazing bite from this guy who just
Speaker 1: had a killer game or a really tough game, or
Speaker 1: in the locker room. And I think you know, understanding
Speaker 1: what it feels like to be the highest of highs
Speaker 1: or lowest of lows as a player, um is something
Speaker 1: that I valued and I thought was important with how
Speaker 1: you hopefully resonate with guys after those moments. And so
Speaker 1: you know, to me and I even think to me
Speaker 1: to like, at the end of the day, that's what
Speaker 1: it's about. But it's also about just your preparation. You
Speaker 1: can be at your best when you are so prepared
Speaker 1: that you have that one percent of information that you wasted.
Speaker 1: You know, I even think about that my boards now
Speaker 1: or how you prepare. There's of stuff on here that
Speaker 1: I will never look at, I will never use. That
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, but there is something on here that does matter.
Speaker 1: And I think that was just all of that. And
Speaker 1: so getting to the point of you knows how I
Speaker 1: even got the opportunity that my producers and boss it
Speaker 1: felt comfortable enough to give me the opportunity to call
Speaker 1: a game because of a scheduling quirk with our analysts
Speaker 1: is because I prepared every game like I would call
Speaker 1: the game. That was just my approach to it because
Speaker 1: I wanted to have that information. I wanted to know everything.
Speaker 1: I never knew what was going to come up in
Speaker 1: a game to be like, oh man, this is this
Speaker 1: is very useful. And for those reasons, I was always
Speaker 1: comfortable with that. And that's not to say like that.
Speaker 1: I think it's also the understanding of you're gonna have
Speaker 1: bad games, You're gonna have bad interviews, You're gonna mess
Speaker 1: up like that. There's gonna be things that happened that
Speaker 1: are whatever you say it was either wrong or how
Speaker 1: you phrased it, or you you know, it was way
Speaker 1: too long and you you did say too much. And
Speaker 1: I think it's just how can you, okay, learn from
Speaker 1: this experience, learn from this and continue then moving on?
Speaker 1: Uh how did they tell you you got your first
Speaker 1: chance to do the color of the analyst role? And
Speaker 1: they my um John Philippelli, who I brought up, Flip
Speaker 1: Um and Frank to Grace. I can't remember who called
Speaker 1: first that they called, but they quite frankly they asked
Speaker 1: if I would want I still at the time had
Speaker 1: been calling a good amount of um with Fox Sports
Speaker 1: women's college games, and so they would steal when I'd
Speaker 1: have a free, free day or free time was steal.
Speaker 1: So I was still in some ways in that analysts
Speaker 1: chair of that mindset, but doing it on the women's
Speaker 1: side of things. And I, um, I can't even remember
Speaker 1: how they call or what called, but they it was.
Speaker 1: You know, during March, our guys were all doing some
Speaker 1: n C double A stuff, had some you know, turner obligations,
Speaker 1: and they said, we don't not not one of our
Speaker 1: three can can call it. But we think that you
Speaker 1: know the game and know the team well enough to
Speaker 1: do it. And and now the thing I love is
Speaker 1: now that doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
Speaker 1: That happens now and in a lot of cases, but um,
Speaker 1: I was doing interviews for NBA TV. I was doing
Speaker 1: it was the first time that a female was as
Speaker 1: an analyst for the NETS, you know, for the NETS broadcast,
Speaker 1: and I think just across the league that was such
Speaker 1: a big deal. And you brought up I mean, I
Speaker 1: think about Doris Burke, I think about Ann Myers, Drysdale,
Speaker 1: like the individuals doing that and doing that with such
Speaker 1: a consistency, and it felt like such a novelty for
Speaker 1: me to call one game, and I was excited about it.
Speaker 1: I appreciated they gave me that opportunity, but it was
Speaker 1: wild that once I didn't once got to set sit
Speaker 1: next to the great the greatest, greatest there is, Iron Eagle.
Speaker 1: UM made it so easy. We were at Philadelphia, which, um,
Speaker 1: their broadcast position is not a great one, but it's
Speaker 1: it's like it's up and it's off to the side
Speaker 1: and your high and uh. But but it was amazing
Speaker 1: and I did that and I was like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: It was the same type of thing as when I
Speaker 1: sat in a production truck of like, whoa like doing
Speaker 1: this on a daily basis, This is a drain. But
Speaker 1: but circling back to your you know, original original statement.
Speaker 1: Early on, it didn't even cross my mind that I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe you know in what had happened?
Speaker 1: It was it was one year, I think it was.
Speaker 1: They're like that that went pretty well. Maybe next year.
Speaker 1: And the next year I got a couple of couple
Speaker 1: of games, we did a couple more three man booth um,
Speaker 1: but that that was my hope. I was like, man
Speaker 1: if I could do a couple of games a season.
Speaker 1: This is awesome, and then still supplement it with you know,
Speaker 1: calling calling the w NBA games in college college games, um,
Speaker 1: and then it just it progressed from there. You call
Speaker 1: a game off the monitor or you callee, just stop
Speaker 1: your eyes off my eye. I mean I would say,
Speaker 1: off my eyes. I'll check a monitor for a replay,
Speaker 1: like if you're obviously looking at But no, I I
Speaker 1: can't say that's why it was. It was really wild
Speaker 1: during you think about the pandemic or COVID or when
Speaker 1: we're doing games remotely calling off a monitor just because No,
Speaker 1: I would say, I barely. The only time I really
Speaker 1: look at a monitor is if I'm looking at a replay. Now,
Speaker 1: how loquacious are you with your producer when you're calling
Speaker 1: a game? In terms of like like i'd say, one
Speaker 1: of my things is I talk all the time, but
Speaker 1: I usually have to talk back button going. Sometimes I don't.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm just laying out, checking out. But you know
Speaker 1: I'm clipped that. But I've been told I talk a
Speaker 1: lot to the producer. Well, I'll say that my more
Speaker 1: so for Brooklyn Nets games. UM, Frank to Grace, I
Speaker 1: brought him up a lot. He's our game producer, he's
Speaker 1: our coordinating producer. He's been doing it for ever along
Speaker 1: with Eyn Eagle. Um, we're like, we're all best of friends,
Speaker 1: and so our conversation. I mean, I think he is
Speaker 1: the best of the best. Um, he's extraordinary at what
Speaker 1: he does. He's an amazing human being. But we will
Speaker 1: we will talk all game and in many cases, hey
Speaker 1: did you see this? Whatever? You're talking about games stuff
Speaker 1: that we're also like ragging on each other. We're making jokes,
Speaker 1: we're cracking on this, we're talking about It's a constant dialogue.
Speaker 1: That's why I think we too have so much fun.
Speaker 1: It's it's as though you're watching a game with your
Speaker 1: best friends and calling the game. And it's the communication,
Speaker 1: even the communication. I mean, our truck is amazing and
Speaker 1: so we're you know, I'm saying stuff to our director
Speaker 1: and uh, you know just is to our tape like everyone.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's the fun of it for us.
Speaker 1: It's amazing when a team is winning and doing well. Um,
Speaker 1: But regardless, our job is to be the best we
Speaker 1: can be, and I think when we do it, it's
Speaker 1: obviously very professional it's we're approaching it in we take
Speaker 1: every game. It doesn't matter if it's a second of
Speaker 1: a back to back and the team is good or
Speaker 1: bad or whatever. But we take it with the same
Speaker 1: seriousness and the same preparation. But we also have fun
Speaker 1: because we're like, we we enjoy one another and this
Speaker 1: is what we get to do, So we're gonna have
Speaker 1: fun while we're doing it. Um so yeah, But but
Speaker 1: I do think it's different. I don't think it's the same.
Speaker 1: Me and you were not the same before. If I'm
Speaker 1: doing a college with a producer, I only work with
Speaker 1: you know, a handful of times a year, a little
Speaker 1: more off and on. I think that's where, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll definitely be hidden and talk back about things I
Speaker 1: see or hey, if we could, that'd be a good
Speaker 1: good thing to run again, let's see replay of that.
Speaker 1: But but otherwise I try not to be uh too chatty.
Speaker 1: I know they got a lot of coming on in
Speaker 1: the truck. Yeah, you have spend spend one one quarter
Speaker 1: in the truck and be like, oh my god. Um
Speaker 1: when you got to the nets and they were in
Speaker 1: rebuild mode and they had Kenny Atkinson, Um, that was
Speaker 1: a team that I had only been told by people
Speaker 1: in the NBA, like, man, they've got great chemistry, like
Speaker 1: they those dudes, they have figured it out right, No
Speaker 1: name guys. They played analytics basketball, you know, getting to
Speaker 1: the rim, shooting threes. They cheered for each other like
Speaker 1: that was and it was like aam but it was.
Speaker 1: It seemed really fun to be around UM. And then
Speaker 1: they add these two stars. But you know k D
Speaker 1: was hurt, like, what what has that been like in
Speaker 1: terms of the temperature around the team? To go ahead,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, No, I was going to take you back
Speaker 1: and not to UM. Like when I came, as I said,
Speaker 1: the NIXT had just moved to Brooklyn, so Avery Johnson
Speaker 1: was still the head coach, and that's when they had
Speaker 1: signed Joe Johnson, signed Darren Darren Williams. Um ends up
Speaker 1: every ends up getting letting go. PJ takes over as
Speaker 1: the interim head coach. That second gear was when they
Speaker 1: hired Jason Kidd as the head coach, made the big
Speaker 1: trade with Boston guard it and Pierce come. The team
Speaker 1: has expectations to win a championship. UM and then everything,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to go through the entire Uh,
Speaker 1: because but when people even when you know you go
Speaker 1: through the would work. Yeah, I I didn't know, Like
Speaker 1: I was just excited, like there was a ton of
Speaker 1: buzz attention. I was interested to see, you know, how
Speaker 1: these guys would come together. But all the different I
Speaker 1: guess my point is all the different iteration there is
Speaker 1: to me, I had such an appreciation, enjoy and fun
Speaker 1: of all the different iterations of the team because you're
Speaker 1: seeing some all time grades. And then to your point,
Speaker 1: the the years of Kenny watching the development, You've got
Speaker 1: guys that were either cut or waived or didn't know
Speaker 1: if they were going to make it in the league.
Speaker 1: Those who were dealt with injuries, so that's maybe why
Speaker 1: they dropped in terms of their their draft status or
Speaker 1: where they were with their career. And so the beauty
Speaker 1: of watching so just again so many different iterations of
Speaker 1: what guys were and at their careers, and that's where
Speaker 1: I think they're you know, I just have so much
Speaker 1: appreciation respect for you look at different teams and how
Speaker 1: they jelled together, the chemistry they had, um how much
Speaker 1: fun even the timeline and then not having any picks
Speaker 1: in the first time when they made it back to
Speaker 1: the playoffs, we were at Indiana, the D'Angelo Russell, you know,
Speaker 1: Spencer Dinwittie Carreris LeVert, those group with Joe Harris, you
Speaker 1: know all of that. There There was um every single
Speaker 1: season and within the course of the season, there was
Speaker 1: so much joy for me because of how much I
Speaker 1: love the game and just seeing how things played out
Speaker 1: and even if it didn't work out. And then um,
Speaker 1: the signing of you know, Kevin and Kyrie, that was
Speaker 1: equally as just thrilling and exciting because you're like, wow,
Speaker 1: all the foundation laid about what this organization had gotten
Speaker 1: itself back to drew in these super super elite talents
Speaker 1: UM and it obviously, you know that's why you just
Speaker 1: you roll with it. And no one anticipated the pandemic.
Speaker 1: No one anticipated all the challenges of COVID, No one
Speaker 1: anticipates different injuries, UM, the way lineup shake out, And
Speaker 1: that's where I think you ebb and flow with it,
Speaker 1: you know. To me, that's why I'm like, there's nothing
Speaker 1: I could see that could surprise me anymore in the league.
Speaker 1: But that's why like now this cur Win Street, watching
Speaker 1: the vibe of this group right now and how they're
Speaker 1: coming together the way Kevin has been playing, Like his
Speaker 1: ability not only to perform at this level but do
Speaker 1: it in a way that um is something to me
Speaker 1: that I find so much joy in every night of
Speaker 1: not just getting to call his games, but watching how
Speaker 1: he is and connected with his teammates and saying goes
Speaker 1: for Kyrie Saint all of the stuff across the board,
Speaker 1: and you never know how long things will last. And
Speaker 1: to me, that's that's the fun of what we get
Speaker 1: to do, Like it's this is all live, live games.
Speaker 1: Ball gets tipped and you never know you know what
Speaker 1: things are going to pan out like and things can
Speaker 1: look away in November and be entirely different in January
Speaker 1: and saying goes for April, um, And that's the that's
Speaker 1: the fun of basketball seasons. Do you know things? And
Speaker 1: I'm sure I like when when Steve let go or
Speaker 1: quit or however went down, like Avery, Like, do you
Speaker 1: know those things before they happen? Everything depends. I'm there's
Speaker 1: obviously being around a team, traveling with a team, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things you know or don't know. There's
Speaker 1: fields you get. I mean to be honest, most times
Speaker 1: I don't know things, but there's stuff that you, um,
Speaker 1: that will surprise you, and then there's things that maybe
Speaker 1: don't surprise you as much. And I also think sometimes
Speaker 1: it's just the timing of things or how um how
Speaker 1: it all works out. But that's why you know, I
Speaker 1: think even to just with this business or even all
Speaker 1: coaches or those that make decisions, like I think everyone
Speaker 1: understands what they're signing up for and what they're getting into. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, sometimes sometimes we do sometimes. And that's the
Speaker 1: same as there's things that you may know or those
Speaker 1: who are you know, on the phone all the time.
Speaker 1: Their job is to break news, and you know, there
Speaker 1: are a head of things about you know, the nets
Speaker 1: or whatever teams, um. You know that I'm I'm not
Speaker 1: as locked into because it's not my responsibility, uh to
Speaker 1: be breaking news. So sometimes there's things, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: there's things that like I'd rather I'd rather not you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go about and I don't need to
Speaker 1: try and dig into things. Um if it's stuff that's
Speaker 1: not gonna matter, you know, not gonna matter on my end.
Speaker 1: I thought, listen, I've I grew up and I don't
Speaker 1: know if if you I'm sure you're pretty aware like
Speaker 1: Jock when he was a kid, when he was in
Speaker 1: high school, he was revered in southern California. Like he
Speaker 1: was the consummate point guard. He was the guy everybody
Speaker 1: wanted to play a you like, he was the dude
Speaker 1: and he had the personality for it and everything. Obviously
Speaker 1: this is his I guess you'd say third time around, right,
Speaker 1: he's a head coach that didn't work out. Then he
Speaker 1: was the interim coach with the nets in the bubble,
Speaker 1: and then now he's the head coach. But like to
Speaker 1: mid season to have this flip where they'll play for him.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of other aspects to it. What
Speaker 1: what is different about Jock from what they were doing previously?
Speaker 1: What has what has is it just Kevin and Kyrie
Speaker 1: figuring out how to play with other guys? Like what
Speaker 1: what has changed? There's a lot of things. And then
Speaker 1: I'll get to Jock because I couldn't agree more. Um,
Speaker 1: he's a special, special individual. I'll say one, the team
Speaker 1: is finally healthy, and that did not exist in the
Speaker 1: early part. They're finally getting the full compliments of the
Speaker 1: roster um back, which makes a major difference. Uh, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of players that just had not spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time playing together, so want it's help. But
Speaker 1: to you even look at you know, Ben finally being healthy,
Speaker 1: t J. Warren being back, Joe Harrison Seth hadn't been healthy.
Speaker 1: Like there there's a ton of players, um that even
Speaker 1: like the contributions of you to wat A Nabi was
Speaker 1: a guy that you know who would have even known
Speaker 1: if he would be in the rotation. And now he
Speaker 1: has been consistent. How Kevin and Kyrie have gotten used
Speaker 1: to how they're playing with one another, um, how they're
Speaker 1: playing with Ben Nick Klaxton has been a revelation of
Speaker 1: just his growth and his improvement. But all of those things,
Speaker 1: with those pieces of everyone playing together, I think naturally
Speaker 1: takes time. And this is a group that I think,
Speaker 1: you know, there was so much scrutiny early on and
Speaker 1: I think they had more of a patience. Um. But
Speaker 1: the biggest change with and Kevin is playing at a
Speaker 1: otherworldly level. UM. The biggest change with Jock has got
Speaker 1: you know, he's got an infectious energy. He shows up
Speaker 1: with this attitude, let's get it every single day, every
Speaker 1: moment of the day. But his communication with players in
Speaker 1: game adjustments preparation organization. You watch him during a game time,
Speaker 1: what he's demanding out of them, um and doing on
Speaker 1: the defensive side, how they're communicating rebounding aspects, pushing the
Speaker 1: right buttons with the lineup, lineup combinations, when he's calling timeouts. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's somewhat like you could see the amount of
Speaker 1: time that he spent he got that job in Orlando.
Speaker 1: He was very young. Uh that when he was an
Speaker 1: interim when you mentioned in the babble, did a tremendous job.
Speaker 1: But he just continued to show. Even his decision to
Speaker 1: stay on, Uh, his associate head coach with Steve Nash,
Speaker 1: he's been when that's like you know they let him go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and even like through the course of him you know
Speaker 1: he was he was then interim head coach before they
Speaker 1: named him the head coach, when there was a lot
Speaker 1: of discussion and rumors going around about the hiring of you,
Speaker 1: and he told the team, he said, I don't I
Speaker 1: was asked to coach today. I was asked to show
Speaker 1: up and coach you. That's what I'm gonna do. If
Speaker 1: they asked me to come back tomorrow, That's what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do. And that's his attitude, Like it's real, it's genuine,
Speaker 1: it's who he is, and it's how he um has
Speaker 1: been able I think just to get a ultimate buying
Speaker 1: and now I think too it comes from, you know,
Speaker 1: it's him, but also comes from how the leadership of
Speaker 1: Kevin comes from, how Kyrie has been playing, comes from
Speaker 1: guys are just having fun and winning. You like, you
Speaker 1: know this winning is fun. So all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you get a taste of that. And it's not just winning,
Speaker 1: but it's the style they're playing. Everyone's getting touches, the
Speaker 1: assist numbers are through the roof. Um, guys all feel
Speaker 1: like they're a part of it. It's not just you know,
Speaker 1: it's not just the superstar players. And so I think
Speaker 1: for all of those reasons, Um, it's just been a
Speaker 1: good fit in chemistry. Chemistry matters in the league, and
Speaker 1: they've they've right now built a really nice chemistry. But
Speaker 1: I think Jock is, Uh, you can't give enough credit
Speaker 1: to him just for for being who he is, and
Speaker 1: this is who he is and this is what he's
Speaker 1: prepared for. You know, literally through the course of his
Speaker 1: entire career, you get to see Kevin every night and
Speaker 1: we are in a society where we have and I
Speaker 1: and you and I have been on these shows together.
Speaker 1: Right where you're on these shows, you're commenting on guys.
Speaker 1: But the the idea that you're gonna watch these guys
Speaker 1: play every night like you just don't nobody you know
Speaker 1: it too. Honestly, it took up until this year that
Speaker 1: people figured out Russell Wilson Russell Westbrook wasn't a good
Speaker 1: defensive player like y. I'men a good deal other player
Speaker 1: for half a decade, but people didn't pay attention. Right
Speaker 1: now they pay attention. Um what what? What impresses you
Speaker 1: about k D? Watching him every night? I don't even
Speaker 1: know where to begin, because he it. I think the
Speaker 1: thing you start with first is the skill, and the
Speaker 1: skill comes from his true love and adoration of the
Speaker 1: game and how much he's poured into it. Because I
Speaker 1: don't care that he's you know, seven foot and you
Speaker 1: know six like obviously that that makes it different. But
Speaker 1: his his handles, his decision making, his actual the pureeness
Speaker 1: of his shot and his jumper he's making shots with
Speaker 1: guys cloaked around, is a quickness of his first step
Speaker 1: in understanding angles of how to get to his spots. UM.
Speaker 1: Now watching what he's doing diving on the floor defensively
Speaker 1: his coverage, Like he's now so locked in on the
Speaker 1: defensive end. And that's what's changed with the whole group
Speaker 1: because he's doing it, so everyone's doing it. His passing
Speaker 1: ability starting to like make pinpot, but the refinement of
Speaker 1: his actual skills. But the more you watch, he's he's
Speaker 1: fun because he loves he trash talks and he does
Speaker 1: it in a way that he just loves it and
Speaker 1: he enjoys it. And he's chattering the whole game about
Speaker 1: you know, different things with different players. Um, because he
Speaker 1: just he lives he lives the game in a way
Speaker 1: that UM, I think I just think it's it's absolutely
Speaker 1: beautiful and he Um, he's an elite, elite level player.
Speaker 1: But I think just understanding you know, watching him in warmups,
Speaker 1: watching him and shoot arounds and practices like this is
Speaker 1: not a nowhere um. And you know he right now,
Speaker 1: the way that he's been playing and how he's figured out, um,
Speaker 1: how to bust up defensive coverage is how every every
Speaker 1: defense you know is game planned about how to stop him. Uh.
Speaker 1: And he continues only get his numbers, but get guys involved.
Speaker 1: I think that's the special stuff of just the brilliant
Speaker 1: studies shown and how he understands the game and then
Speaker 1: doing so it's such a a just crazy level of
Speaker 1: efficient see um all right, And then covering Kyrie, which
Speaker 1: is is hard because he's an unbelievable talent, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: he is incredible with the basketball, but then he just
Speaker 1: all of the other stuff he just I don't know
Speaker 1: if he struggles with or he wants to make everything harder,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's media commentary or how his interaction
Speaker 1: with teammates when he first got there before Kevin was
Speaker 1: or coaches or whatever. But then again, you get to
Speaker 1: watch it every night, how is that it feels like
Speaker 1: that's changed and that's gotten better, whether it's buying how Yeah,
Speaker 1: because he similarly like he loves the game. He wouldn't
Speaker 1: be that talent and that skilled if it wasn't about
Speaker 1: how much time he poured into the game. And for me,
Speaker 1: he's he's wonderful to be around. He's always been great
Speaker 1: to all of us. UM. He appreciates and cares about
Speaker 1: his teammates, He cares about the game, he cares about winning.
Speaker 1: UM and the way he's been playing has been at
Speaker 1: an extraordinarily high level. His shot making, his handle like
Speaker 1: there's things you see that he does it so quickly
Speaker 1: and so smoothly and with such ease that you need
Speaker 1: to watch it in slow motion to even realize, UM,
Speaker 1: just how incredible it is of of the moves he's
Speaker 1: making and what he's doing. And so again it's like
Speaker 1: I in all every night of different things that happen,
Speaker 1: and that's throughout the course of every quarter, every game,
Speaker 1: every night. And that's something that I will never take
Speaker 1: for granted, UM, because not a lot of people get
Speaker 1: to do that and see that on a nightly basis
Speaker 1: for work. UM. Is this sustainable for the playoffs? I?
Speaker 1: I think so for a couple of reasons. I want
Speaker 1: to think health always matters, UM, But no one's doing
Speaker 1: things outside the realm of how they can play. And
Speaker 1: I think the contributions you're getting from other players UM
Speaker 1: are very much within the horse of their roles and
Speaker 1: how they play and what their strengths are. Uh. And defensively,
Speaker 1: they've continued to show that they could play like this
Speaker 1: in a sustained period of time, and the type of
Speaker 1: players they have the type of style is is styles
Speaker 1: that translate into the playoffs, possession, game shot makers, those
Speaker 1: that could close out, uh, switchability, versatility in the lineup
Speaker 1: of of who they're playing, and you know, so for
Speaker 1: those reasons, like I do think so, um, but it's
Speaker 1: still a very very long season. But I think they're
Speaker 1: wins and the way they want against Milwaukee, against Cleveland, um,
Speaker 1: some of these other teams when they're playing more um
Speaker 1: of the high level teams and doing it against those
Speaker 1: type of groups. Uh, that's I think what has continued
Speaker 1: to open up eyes a little bit more. I got
Speaker 1: one minute. In ten years, Zara cru Stock will be
Speaker 1: doing what happy and challenged, let's hope. So that's all
Speaker 1: I want. I want to I want to be filled
Speaker 1: with the same joy in peace I have today, um,
Speaker 1: and in appreciation for whatever it is I'm doing and challenged.
Speaker 1: Are you ever? Are you ever not happy? I've never
Speaker 1: come upon you when you're live. I'm here, I'm alive.
Speaker 1: I get to I get to be around some great people.
Speaker 1: So no, what what what I got? I got no complaints?
Speaker 1: I got no complaints. Well, you've been more than gracious
Speaker 1: with your time, and this was fine. This is fine.
Speaker 1: I'm around any time you're in hotel rooms exactly. We'll
Speaker 1: do it again. We'll do it again next time. What
Speaker 1: I need is, I need a list of the best
Speaker 1: hotels you stay at in the NBA, because I've heard
Speaker 1: their unbelievable. I could, I've got, I've got all the
Speaker 1: travel I've heard. The Peninsula, I've heard the Peninsula in
Speaker 1: Chicago is the king it is. That's that's what That's
Speaker 1: what I've heard. So we'll do that next time. You
Speaker 1: gotta go. I appreciate you. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year,
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for joining to you as well.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Doug. I hope you enjoyed that, and I
Speaker 1: hope you love this podcast. We've Got Great Things Upcoming
Speaker 1: is a booked a good amount in the future of players,
Speaker 1: current former coaches, current former storytellers, who are who are
Speaker 1: going to make your drives from game to game, from
Speaker 1: practice to practice or anyway in your life better that.
Speaker 1: That's the idea, right, So this thing on, I got
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Speaker 1: If you have a suggestion at Gottlieb Show and Twitter,
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Speaker 1: you guys do, you know. Um and uh, it's been
Speaker 1: a it's been a really really good two two more
Speaker 1: to come from an exciting announcement to come in from
Speaker 1: All Ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb. Thanks for listening.