WEBVTT - All Ball - Nets Analyst Sarah Kustok on Broadcast Craft, Analyst Breakthrough, KD/Kyrie Nets 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:09.840 Hey, what welcome in. I'm gug gotli you. Well, you 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.720 downloaded all ball and if you missed the Joe Golden 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.000 Parts one to parts two, um, they're still there. You 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.520 gotta go find them. They're really, really good. I love that. 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:25.160 I almost wish we could call this pod. Uh two 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.600 tens of stuff, one red bull and a candy bar. Right, yeah, 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:32.640 to listen to part one of Joe Golden in order 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:37.880 to to get that. But um, look, I want to 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.000 wish you all a happy New Year. Um, if I 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.120 didn't wish she had married Christmas related Mary Christmas, we 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:45.440 can still do that, right, It's only a couple of 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.000 days afterwards. But we wanted to think this one in 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:53.279 before the New Year because one, I really like sarahcu 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.720 Stock the person. I like her the talent, and she 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.840 has an interesting story and oh yeah, by the way, 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:02.880 she covers a really really interesting team in the NBA, 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.200 Like we gotta have her back on Talk College Hoops 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.200 as well. She's she's good at all of it. Um, 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:12.040 but she's she does both sideline and she's an analyst 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:17.160 for the Brooklyn Nets. And she went from being a 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.960 a very good player with DePaul Blue Demons too now 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:26.119 to im breaking through barriers right. Um, there have been 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:31.400 other women, most notably Doris Burke, but there are others 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.720 who have broken through. But I don't know if people 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.560 have a healthy respect for not just that she's a 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.720 woman calling games in the NBA as analysts, but also 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.560 like look before before the wave of a couple of 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:52.080 different women, no one who didn't play or coach in 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:57.000 the NBA was an analyst in the NBA. That's said 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.600 glass ceiling for all of us who never played a 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.040 second in the n B A. UM. So that's a 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:07.880 hard breakthrough and it's an interesting dynamic when she's at 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.399 her place of business. UM, it should be pointing out 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.120 that most people are starting to come around to what 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.639 I think about Kevin Durant. He's an incredibly elite all 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:23.720 time player, and I find it, I find it almost 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.480 comically embarrassing. Can I put those two words together? I 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:33.560 just did that because he played for Golden State. Well, 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:38.000 that somehow takes away from what he's done, Like I 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.720 don't know, he was on really good teams in Oklahoma 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.240 City that had some fundamental flaws. They got to one 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.360 NBA finals. They obviously had a three one lead and 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.919 loss to the Warriors. Katie was not good in Game six, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:56.680 But dudes of stud he's the greatest score of this generation. Um, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.360 and I think he's an lead all time great. And 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:02.960 then you kind of got a factor in that his 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:07.919 career more mirrors most careers, like Lebron having forty seven 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.080 on his birthday, like Lebron's that he could not be 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.720 a human being, right. But but the point is, like 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.639 Lebron his career, and he's had some injuries here recently, 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:22.520 but most guys, most guys that that play ten fifteen 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.640 years in the NBA have years where they get injured, 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.120 they have wonky exits from teams they have you know, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.920 it's like Larry Bird's top five all time player in 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.240 the modern Arab basketball. I'll fight anybody who says otherwise 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.480 because we're just completely misremembering him and Magic running the league. 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.520 But like you know, Bird's career was cut short by injuries, 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.760 and then there was the bone spurs one year, get 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:51.839 bad back, a little bit of everything, right, Magic got hurt, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.560 you know, had been hurt one year. Um, Jordan's obviously 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.040 early in his career, had the broken foot. So you know, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.760 KB had the broken foot one year and he had 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.800 the Achilles tenant tear, and yet here he is in 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.920 the conversation as the best player in the league, in 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.800 the conversation's best player in the league, And UM, I 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.200 don't know Sarah gets the chance to cover it. Um, 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.400 I don't think I need to do NBA thoughts or 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:22.919 college hoops thoughts. Um as we we we bridged the 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:26.920 gap from twenty two to twenty three. There is absolutely 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.080 greatness in basketball and great stories in basketball. We'll cover 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.240 them all here. So, UM, I just I don't need 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.800 to do like a daily update with you guys. What 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.000 I do love is bringing people's stories to life. And 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:44.520 this is Sarah cu Stock who works for Fox Sports, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:49.599 who works for Yes and covers college hoops, covers the NBA, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:54.520 and do does it both with incredible grace class and 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.400 she's very very good at what she does. Here's my 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:06.840 conversation with um, how good a player were you? Oh? 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.520 You're coming with the hot the hot questions early I will, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.000 I mean it's just like just an open question like now, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:14.920 I mean, look, you do this for a living, now 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.040 right where you're I know how I would describe myself 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.760 to answer that question. I was a winning player. My 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.159 teams want when that that's it. I don't know how 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:29.240 individually good or how you you look at breaking down 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.279 different players in terms of skill set, stats all that stuff, 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.919 But um, I felt like I contributed to winning and 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.640 to me, that's the number one key. Okay, I love that. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.640 That's I mean, I I just I have this thing 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.160 where first somebody says they're a winning player. That's the 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.880 ultimate compliment, right, I mean, that's why the heck do 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:49.839 we keep school? Well, I said about myself. So I 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.799 don't know if no, it's okay, like I I would say, honestly, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:55.880 if I was I was being candid, that would say 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:57.440 the same thing. Everybody's a while, you're a great past. 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:02.719 Like I mean, yes, that that that my my skill expertise. 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.520 But the point was that I felt like I did 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:08.880 whatever it took to give my team a chance to win. 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.640 And the greatest pride I have in my time, at 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.280 least at Okal in the state is it was they 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.560 were struggling with seventeen and fifteen two years in a row, 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.599 and you look at the records of three years I 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.640 was there. I felt like I changed, helped change the 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:27.159 program back into a winning program. And I see that's okay. 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.839 So were you, like again, give me a give me 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.880 a style of player that that you were. I think 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.960 I to that point of what a team needed. I 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.840 think it was different. You asked what I was when 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.800 I was a freshman starting on my you know, first 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:44.719 the high school team, when I was a junior senior 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:46.400 in high school, when I was a freshman coming in 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.760 at DePaul, and you know, started as opposed to I 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.240 think it always varies, it's changed, it's fluid. Um, I 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:57.280 was always a very good three point shooter. Um, I 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.520 probably attacked a lot more, handled the ball more in 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.080 a way of creating and scoring more when and uh, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.080 when I was in high school. We like to Paul, 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.480 I don't know how familiar you are with h I mean, 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.280 give shouts Doug Bruno as I'm wearing my topol T shirt. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.880 But even back that he understood, given the personnel we play, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.160 we played fat like. We very much played the way 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.680 the NBA now has transformed into. We shot a ton 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.680 of threes, played super fast. We had a big that 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.120 could run and was essentially four of us that were 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.560 five ten guards and get it and go, And that's 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.560 what it was. About like always tops in the country, 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.920 you know, one to three, four, five and assist, um. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.200 And that was the style of play. So I was 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.320 a one or of two. But I also you know, 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.320 given who we were, a lot of our we did 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.480 a switching scheme on defense, so I'd guard bigs, I'd 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.960 guard point guards. Um. But with all of that being said, 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:51.960 that's why I just I think just the ability to 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:53.880 be versatile. A lot of what I part of myself 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.320 was on the defense. Ven though, Like that's where even 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.720 when I that's why I played when I came in 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.640 high school. UM, because I could always guard the best 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.400 opposing player, and I understood that at an early age. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.240 I also think to just like growing up playing with 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.400 my brother, playing with boys, Um there was no girls 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.520 teams at the time when I was in middle school, 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.240 and then play with the boys teams through you know, 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.400 junior high and um, just always getting in run. Like 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.240 a lot of what I did was not predicated on 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.080 me having size or being stronger or being more physical, 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.240 Like I had to figure those things out, and I 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.720 think that carried with me then what my game looked 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.640 like and what what it is that I took to 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:36.480 how I played as I got older and got got better. Um, 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:41.840 you finish up, and there's the there's there's the now. 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:46.440 What right? Um, when you're playing, did you have any 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:51.199 I mean some women go overseas and play obviously, Um 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:53.720 what was it? What was your plan in your brain? 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.440 I don't know if I have any If I had 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.840 a plan, like, that's the wild thing when you are 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:05.679 so focused on something on basketball, Like growing up, I 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.080 was always so focused on sports, improving its sports. And 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.760 I knew the value of education. School good great. I 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.360 cared a lot about getting good grades. I cared about 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:17.959 being at the top of my class, but I didn't 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.760 necessarily think about that in terms of, oh what what 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.280 would I like then to turn this into as a profession. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.480 And so I thought, as long as I hit the books, 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.480 kept my head down, like, kept getting good great, I'd 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.480 figure that part out. And going into college, I initially 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.640 was I was a huge when I was in you know, 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:39.920 junior high high school. I love math, so any any math, calculus, uh, 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:44.199 geometry whatever. I can't even algebra, Like. I was all 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.960 in on numbers, all in on math. So going into college, 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:48.640 I was like, oh, of course I'll go to business school. 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.400 I'll go to be finance counting whatever crunch numbers. UH. 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:54.400 Didn't think much about that. And then I took a 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.480 and like the Jenied classes I was taking my freshman year, 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.000 it took a public speaking class and it both terrified 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.000 me but also like gave give me an adrenaline rush 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:05.640 and was exhilarating in a way that I was like, oh, 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.160 wait a second, this is I like this and I 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.600 always love to to write. UM. Writing was a big 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.920 component of what I'd like to do since I was 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.000 a kid, the research part of it, and so that 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.240 changed into me getting into communications. But it wasn't necessarily 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.480 broadcast Like I thought nothing of being on TV, nothing 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.800 about I don't even think I fully understood broadcast journalism. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:31.840 So fast forward within communications, I was double majoring in sociology. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:33.320 I thought it was going to be a social worker. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.760 UM mindored a juvenile justice. When I tell you, I 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.080 was all across the board. I was all across the board. 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.520 But I appreciated trying different thing like I appreciated things 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.440 I was learning in college. I end up being at 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.000 a point and I'm very thankful for this, UH for 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.600 Nepaul finishing up undergrad my fourth year and I was 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.280 able to start grad school classes while I was still 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.040 in my fourth year, so I was able to finish 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.360 grad school and five of years that allowed me to 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.400 keep my scholarship. Worked in our sports information department that 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.600 fifth year, and I was getting my master's in Corporate 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:12.839 and Multicultural Communication. But during that time, I then had 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.280 the opportunity and ms some individuals to be a runner 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.840 and for ESPNS Big Ten football games because all in 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.800 that area. My brother played in Northwestern. Like, come check 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:24.280 it out, see what it is, See what it's about. 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.560 Is to be just good learning experience for you. Easy 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.640 drives to Michigan, Wisconsin. Where So where are you living 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.040 at the time? Chicago, So I'm still going. I'm finishing. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:36.280 I'm in Lincoln Park, in Lincoln Park address since I 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.679 don't live there anymore. I was on Seminary Seminary and 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:43.760 Webster a campus right on by local Shack and Sweet 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.640 Mandy Bees. Shouts to Chicago and Lincoln Park into Paul 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.000 people that know those spots. But but I was. I 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.960 was right there, and so I would go to work 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.240 in our sports information department Monday through Thursday, eight to 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.720 five or whatever the hours, working to night school classes 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:03.680 Monday through Thursday to nine thirty, and then every Thursday 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.040 night I would leave to go to Wisconsin or go 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.720 to Michigan or Michigan wherever, the wherever the noon game 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.080 was on Saturday, set day, be it beyond set on 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.640 five am on Friday, do that all day Friday game, Saturday, 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.760 drive home Saturday, and then Sunday was like all my 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.160 all my school work. Um, I did not sleep for 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:25.800 in a time, an entire year. But what I learned 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:27.760 in that year, and I also got to do some 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.480 high school like high school broadcasts of same thing, Illinois 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.000 high school state championships and some football stuff I did 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.040 not fully understand. Despite playing and despite watching and seeing 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.960 that the way a production truck work, the way TV work, 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.800 the way live TV. I got blown away the first 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.560 time I sat in a TV truck. Whatever. I always 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.640 tell the story, and I need to actually look back 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.199 what the game was, but I think it was a Wisconsin, Wisconsin, 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:58.199 Michigan UH football game. When I saw like red light 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.560 goes on, saw what happens, producer, the director, see what 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.280 happens with all of that, I was blown away and 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.080 I was like, how can I figure out doing this 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.640 for a living. Are you kidding me? Um? And so 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.360 that was it and there was a billion you know, 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.319 twist turns path obviously, uh, getting to the point where 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.000 I'm at today. But but that that's what triggered me 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.400 to say, Wow, this is something that I didn't fully 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.480 understand what it was, what it meant, how to do it. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.040 But I could be around sports and I could be 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:31.680 around something that seems extremely challenging, um, but gives me 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.160 that same adrenaline rush that I always felt as a player. 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.400 Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.400 the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.600 Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.160 search f s R to listen live. You know it's 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.360 interesting is because you know you're in the truck and 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.440 your runner for the for the Big Ten games. But 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:57.800 even as you're as you're like, I want to do 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.600 this right, like I wanted. That's what I want to do. 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.360 I want to do something around right like that. That's 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.160 actually my basketball story a little bit like my dad 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.600 was a basketball coach, college basketball coach, and then you 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.280 know they get fired Lovvy State, but I'm still a 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.200 love around basketball and I went to I remember the 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:14.920 game I've been in state terming games. I've been to 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.400 Final Fource. But when I went to an LM, you 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.720 played Mission, Went played New Mexico State. It was the 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.680 game after Hank Gathers died. I just it was. It 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.360 was at the Long Beach Arena, and I was I 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.000 had met Hank Gathers the summer before at the Pump 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:37.200 Brothers basketball camp. They played at cal State Northridge. They 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.000 played pickup ball at night, and like the camp was, 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:45.080 it was not yet like a full where they really 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.320 knew what they were doing after hours. Camp was more 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.320 like a day camp and they had a staying The 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.240 camp was at Campbell Hall, which is a private school. 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.880 It's for the holidays. Boy, it went like through holiday. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.080 Just the camp was at Campbell Hall. But then somehow 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:00.960 he left. They gotten like rooms to stay at it 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.920 at cal State Northridge, so we had like free time. 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.360 We like walk over and watch these guys play and 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.280 and they had a couple of Orange County guys where 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.520 I grew up, and so I became an LMU fan. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:12.760 And then I was actually watching the game when he died. 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.120 So I go to the game first gaming n a 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:22.040 tournament and um, you know it was the most emotional 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.240 sporting event I've ever been to, especially because I had 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.800 been to the Long Beach Arena a hundred times because 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:30.560 when my dad was an assistant of Long which State, 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.400 that's where they played, And so it's not a huge arena. 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.080 It's like an old convention center, like on a thirteen 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.600 thousand and fourteen thousand seats, like they'd never get into 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.840 a tournament now, and yet the whole places maroon and 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.120 there's forty four is everywhere, And it was it was 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.800 when went when bow Kimball shot the free throw with 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.360 his left hand and made it, and people grown, people 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:56.120 who had no connectional real knowledge of hand. Gallager just bawling. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.200 I was like, I want to do this right, so 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.160 but doing it and seeing somebody who enough guys that 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.840 look like you, that's reasonable. You're watching the Big Ten, 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:12.480 You're watching ESPN. But outside of Cilent reporters, there isn't 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.880 There aren't women right like I could you? I don't 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.240 know what when was the point where you can conceptualize 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.360 I can't just don't have to do this some sideline 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.000 or do this with a microphone, like I can call 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.000 the games. Now you're calling one of the elite NBA 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:29.200 teams games like it's it's really you endorsed, like incredible 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.000 breakthrough in that you're doing two things that people couldn't 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.480 do before. One obviously I have to be a man, 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.320 and two you had to play in the league. Right. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.880 I mean, I don't think that people truly understand how 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.080 the breakthrough that that you've had specifically. Um, but again, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.280 let's let's go back. So all right, so you're watching 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.000 and you're a runner, and you're not sleeping, and you're like, 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.000 I want to do this, okay, and so what was 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.880 what was the next step in trying to execute some 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.720 sort of plan that, as you said, didn't really exist. Yeah, 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.560 to keep it brief. The next step so still doing 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:10.600 the being here for hours, given the way this trajectory went. 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.359 But um, but I think during that time, so the 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.720 grad school stuff, that there was still thoughts about okay, 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.520 what other what other career paths, the different things that 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.040 I was thinking about trying to do. But while I 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.760 was a runner and you know this, and and especially 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.840 in a college football setting or whatever happened, you gain 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.200 a familiarity your week to week doing this. The crew 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.840 was was Mark Jones, Bob Davies, Holly row Um. But 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.719 when you're there more often, so I'd sit in, you know, 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:39.800 back with with the tape guys and they'd show me 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.600 how they run highlight like they The more I was there, 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.800 I was understanding all the different parties with the TD. Okay, 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.320 this is how we're pushing buttons obviously watching the producer, 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.720 the director. Hey, we need you before the game. Timing 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.440 is paramount, so we need you to hold out the team. 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.760 We need you to go down at perdue and hold 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.080 out the team before it's the exact moment we need 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.280 them to run out for you know, just all of 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.640 those different stats guys not here, can you do stats today? 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:06.840 We don't have a spot or can you go be 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.520 a spotter today? So every there was different aspects of 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.679 it that I was learning so much about the entirety 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:14.320 of the truck and because of it, and again I 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.040 say it like just the kindness of the bunch of 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.320 the photo camera guys sitting around. You know, it's long days. Hey, 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.800 you know what, I think this would be helpful. Let's 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.040 go do a fake interview. Let's grab these this this 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.159 player sitting over here, Let's do a fake interview. Get 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.239 you some demo reel. Let's do a fake stand up. 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.399 Let's so with that being said, more of that, I 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.680 was starting to compile a little bit of a demo reel. 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.520 I was starting to call a couple of college basketball 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.200 games as an analysts, a couple you know, college high 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.320 school games than the Illinois high school state football games. 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.399 Come on, hey, can you do the sideline reporting for 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.719 there's eight there's eight classes in Illinois. So it's right 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.200 after Thanksgiving. You've got four games on Friday, four games 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.479 on Saturday. All of a sudden, I got all the 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.320 reels of all the stuff, but probably terrible work at 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.359 the time, but that that built that up. Um, trying 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.679 to get into it, made some some in roads with 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.800 those in Chicago having played there and knowing some people 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.800 with those at ESPN and you know, the ESPN plus 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.480 regional all that stuff started to get into it a 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.880 little bit more. And then a year or after not 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.840 you know, barely being able to make ends meet, pay 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.240 my bills, eating a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Um. 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.919 You probably are familiar with the story. Maggie Dixon, sister 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.400 of Jamie Dixon. She was the head of Uh. The 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.280 um the assistant coach at to Paul with Doug Bruno 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.399 and she ends up getting the offer to take the 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:40.680 Army job. It's around let's say September. So I just 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.200 finished grad school. I was working on my thesis, trying 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.400 to put together TV stuff. She's taking the job. Doug 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.920 calls and he's like, look, we're gonna be very good. 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.520 I think this year. I know someone who know I 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.320 need someone who knows how I recruit, knows all our stuff, 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.679 knows these players. Um. I understand you're trying to get 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.119 into TV, but would you consider coaching, comming and coaching 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:06.240 for at least a season? Uh. And at the time, again, 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.280 I really was trying to put things together, make ends meet. 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:11.920 I obviously have all the love for to Paul, those players, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.600 everything about it. Um. So I did that for a 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.400 season and it was amazing, amazing, and I loved every 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:21.360 bit of it. It was all over the country recruiting. 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.280 I love that aspect of it. Um. I still see 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:31.200 a girl three. Um. But the scouting aspect, all of it, 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.960 and UM, I think all of those saying I called 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.600 some of the individuals that I had been connected with 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.639 with the TV side of things, and I was like, 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:39.960 what do you think about me? And They're like, to 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:41.600 be honest, if if this is a lot of what 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.800 you want to do, this this will benefit you, but 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.639 just do it for a year and be done. So 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:48.639 I did it. We end up going to the Sweet 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:53.400 sixteen UM lost l s u uh in. You know 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.960 in the Sweet sixteen game, Sylvia Fowls was playing playing 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.760 back then and um and so I was like, man, 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:01.679 I I love this. I want to do this is 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.439 I may want to do this forever. And there was 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.160 there was a talk Doug and he's like, didn't stay like, 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.240 just keep rolling with us. You're already you know, starting 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:12.880 to figure things out now. And but there was a tug. 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.240 There was the TV thing. I wanted to see. There 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.560 was enough of a challenge and enough of a um 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.119 just attraction to what that was to see if I 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.119 could figure that out and piece that together. And so 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:26.040 end up going back to the TV stuff and that's 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:29.679 where you know, fast forward a little bit. It was 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.600 doing some you know, some work on high school games 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:37.160