1 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one. 2 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Two children days from death who looked as if they 3 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: had just quote walked out of a concentration camp. You 4 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: know when I start reading the news this morning, I 5 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: started reading the news at five a m. Actually ten 6 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: till five. I hate it. That's the H word we're 7 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: not allowed to say in our house, but because the 8 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: children aren't here, I'll say it. I hate it when 9 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm reading the news, and then suddenly I come upon 10 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: a sight that shows me the photos of the concentration camps. 11 00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Because it is so hurtful and painful to see what 12 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: humans due to each other. The bones nearly protruding through 13 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: the skin, people literally looking like walking skeletons. I cannot 14 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: imagine the pain they endured. And now I hear about 15 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: little children that looked like that in our country. Why 16 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: I Mancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for 17 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: being with us. I want the truth. Joining me juvenile judge, 18 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: child advocate and lawyer Ashley Wilcott also with me, forensic 19 00:01:55,040 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: expert Professor of FORENSICSIC Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan 20 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,279 Speaker 1: and joining me investigative reporter with Radar Online dot Com, 21 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: Alexis Terres Chuck. Alexis explained to me how three little 22 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: children are found looking as if they had quote walked 23 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: out of a concentration camp in our country, right under 24 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: our noses. Alice have said that they found three children 25 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: locked in the bedroom and they found them they were 26 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: so skinny, so malnourished and starving. These kids were actually 27 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: eating paint off the wall. The children were eating paint 28 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: off the wall to live. Ashley Willcott, I have prosecuted 29 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: and investigated so many child ab cases, not just child 30 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: molestation but child abuse as well, where children were burned 31 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: with cigarettes and beaten into an irreversible coma. This is 32 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: hurting my heart so much. The children, Ashley, were eating 33 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: the paint off the walls. They were tortured, they were 34 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: allowed to literally starve to death and the trauma and 35 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: the physical consequences. And I know Joe Scott Morgan can 36 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: speak better to that, but this is a horrific, sadistic 37 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: starving children to death, and these kids are doing all 38 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: they can to survive. Remember they were four years old, 39 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: five year old and six years old, so they are 40 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: very young children. And what's also disturbing to Alexis to 41 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: restaurant with writer online dot Com. The parents look healthy. 42 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: In fact, you know what mommy hasn't is the meal. No, 43 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: not at all. The parents were fine. They absolutely looked 44 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: like they were eating every meal. And you know another 45 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: thing that the police had about the kids. There were 46 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: no beds for these kids. There were no toys for 47 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: these children. They were just locked in an empty room, 48 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: eating the paint off the walls. Oh, this is just hurtful. 49 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan first of all, explained to me how 50 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: the moment the police found them and unlocked that bedroom door, 51 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: they knew the children instinctively knew the children were days 52 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: from death. The children, Nancy, when they were initially found, 53 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: would have had almost I don't know how to describe 54 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: it other than ghosts like features. They're locked in a room, uh, 55 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: wasted in appearance. That means their eyes are gonna be sunken. There, 56 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: probably begging for water at this point in time, because 57 00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: you know, even even if you're even in starvation cases, 58 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: you've got people that are absent water that just the 59 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: basics that are containing food. Uh, they would have been 60 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: unable to speak very well. Uh my suspicion is they're 61 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: just kind of laying about on the floor in total lethargy, 62 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: and that goes to absence of food. But it also 63 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: goes to something else, uh, Nancy, And that's that's toxicity 64 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: from other things in this room they could have been ingesting. 65 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: Thinking about them scraping the paint off the wall to eat, 66 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: it explained to me what paint, particularly lead paint, will 67 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: do to the human body, Joe Scott, Nancy. There's you know, 68 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: there's a variety of paints out there. This is an 69 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: older home. I was taking a look at the pictures 70 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: of this place, and if a lead paint is there, Lead, 71 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: as many people in your audience know, is a heavy 72 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: metal and this is uh gonna fit effect the the 73 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: central nervous system. It's uh, it can lead to seizures. Uh. 74 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: It's it's highly toxic and carcinogenic. So this could lead 75 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: to cancers. They'll have muscle stiffness, joint stiffness. At what 76 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: it does, it's it's kind of kind of it's really 77 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: really horrific because you can see an old a young 78 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: young person that has been ingesting lead or lead uh 79 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: diet that has lead in it um, and they will 80 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: give a manifestation Nancy, almost like they're they're well into 81 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: their eighties. Uh, you know, very stumped over and and 82 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: hard to move there. The hands will present almost in 83 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: claw like features. Uh. This is you know, lead obviously 84 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: is something that uh you know, I've worked cases where 85 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: people have have been poisoned by lead um and it's 86 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: a horrible set of circumstances. Not to mention the other 87 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: cocktail in the paint that binds his paint together where 88 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: it's made at the factory. Investigative reporter with Radar online 89 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: dot Com alexas the reason I wanted so badly to 90 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: do this story. As much as I hate even reading 91 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: the words in my investigation, I want the world to 92 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: know that this is happening. And the house next to you, 93 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: down the street from you, the house that's caddy cornered 94 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: to you in your neighborhood. This is a lovely rural area. 95 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: It's beautiful. It's there in Pennsylvania. When you look around 96 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: the home, there lust trees and a lawn that looks 97 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: like it's just been mode. You would never imagine that 98 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: that's what's happening inside this home. And alexis there were 99 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: ten people living there. They all let the children starve. 100 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: It's very difficult for me to believe that the mother 101 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: and father, we're the only ones it knew the children 102 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: were locked in a room starving, Alexis. And that's the 103 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: thing is that you're right. There were ten people living there, 104 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: So it took somebody else outside the home to call 105 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: and report these children, to ask the police to go 106 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: check on them, and and they but they were locked 107 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: in there. They were not allowed out. And one thing 108 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: that the police learned in their investigation that they revealed, 109 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: they said the reason that these parents were starving these 110 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: kids was because they didn't want them anymore. And that 111 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: was that they just decided, we don't want you, so 112 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: we're just going to starve you today. Well, when they 113 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: were found, deputies questioned the mother and father Ashley, will 114 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: cut joining me, juven I'll judge and child welfare law 115 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: expert Ashley Again. When deputies arrived, they said that they 116 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: could see the children's bones through their skin. I just 117 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: want you to hold that mental image for a moment, Ashley. Now, 118 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: the mom and dad gave conflicting statements that they were 119 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: not the children's parents, but that neighbors insist, Oh, yes 120 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: they are. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it. So are they 121 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: or are they not? The biological parents is something that 122 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: the state needs to be looking into because these children 123 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: are in foster care. To determine whether or not they 124 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: are one thing that always is interesting to note if 125 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: they let's assume and I know that we don't know this, 126 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: Let's assume they're adoptive parents. They would be receiving an 127 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: adoption subsidy for each of these children if they were 128 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: adopted from foster care. So there are a whole lot 129 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: of questions because some argue, what if they were receiving 130 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: a subsidy, earning money and didn't want the kids so 131 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: they just locked them in a closet. These are things 132 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: that have to be investigated. Well, the other issue is 133 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: I feel confident and I'm waiting for the investigation to 134 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: unfold that whether they are the adopted parents or the 135 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: biological parents, that they are receiving some sort of government 136 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: paycheck for these children, and with each child you get 137 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: another paycheck. So the neighbors and others insists that these 138 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: are the biological parents. But your suggestion adds a whole 139 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: another layer of deceit that they had the children to 140 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: get money and then we're slowly starving them. Joe Scott Morgan, 141 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: forensic expert, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, 142 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: the children each weighed under thirty pounds. What does that mean? Well, 143 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: as we've discussed in previous cases, Nancy, you were painting 144 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: this picture of the police officers being able to see 145 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: the skeleton of of the children as they walked in. 146 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: This gives us an indication that now any kind of 147 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: fat reserves that the children had on their bodies, and 148 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: we all have fat on our bodies and some level 149 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: had already been consumed. That's that's based energy. Now you're 150 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: into a point and get this where their bodies are 151 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: literally ingesting themselves, where they're eating away at muscle. That's 152 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: how you get to the point when you see these 153 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: pictures of people that have been um in these horrible 154 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: captive situations in prison camps and things like that, where 155 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: they look like walking skeletons. That's what these children look 156 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: like because their body was seating, was seeking nutrition, and 157 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: so the body then begins to eat the muscle tissue. 158 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: You've gone beyond the fat into the muscle, and these 159 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: kids are wasted in appearance. Something else that they probably 160 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: saw as well is uh lack of nutrition means that 161 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: these kids teeth are beginning to fall out. More than 162 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: likely they're losing hair. Uh, they've got horrible there's a 163 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: horrible rash that comes about on the skin as well 164 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: as a result of maud nutrition. It's it's a pure, 165 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: total and living hell uh that these kids would have 166 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: been in. Yeah, what's amazing are online dot com. I'm 167 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: looking at the home right now, and the yard is mode. 168 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: There are islands of shrubs and ornamental trees in the yard. 169 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: They're everything is neat and it looks freshly painted on 170 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: the outside. The roof looks like it maybe knew. There 171 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: are clearly to fireplaces in the home. There was an 172 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: attached garage. I see a blue and a red a 173 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: very shiny red pickup truck out front that looks like 174 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: it may have just been waxed because it's so shiny. 175 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: They took care of the home, Alexis and the cars, 176 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: but not the children, it looks like and that's why 177 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: it took a neighbor who probably had seen the kids 178 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: for a while, and then all of a sudden they disappeared, 179 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: and so they got concerned about them, which is wonderful 180 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: that people are finally take notice in and calling and 181 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: not just assuming that they have no business getting involved 182 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: because it's the little children had nobody else to help them, 183 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: but they were locked in this house and with all 184 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: the other people coming and going, nobody said anything. It 185 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: took somebody that lived there and had seen those kids 186 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: and knew they were there and had seen them before 187 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: to call the police and say, something is going on 188 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: because we haven't seen these kids in a while. How 189 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: does that happen with me? Juvenile judge, child welfare law 190 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: expert Ashley Wilcott Ashley, how do you They can't possibly 191 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: be going to school in this condition? So how does 192 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: that happen? How do you just not show up for 193 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: school and nobody notices? Well, I know the ages are 194 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: four or five and six, and so let's assume as 195 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: six year old is in school, it doesn't shouldn't happen. 196 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: Somebody should notice. They have to take attendance. They have 197 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: to note if the child's in school or not. If 198 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: it's not mandatory. For instance, in the state of Georgia, 199 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: it's not mandatory to go to kindergarten. So if they're 200 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: not in something that's not mandatory, it may not be 201 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: reported the same. But otherwise attendance is report it. It's 202 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: called truancy. It should be reported so that someone can 203 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: investigate us to where the children are. The three little children, 204 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: a six year old boy and two girls just five 205 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: and four, were discovered by deputies underweight, their skin caked 206 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: with animal hair, dirt, feces, and urine. According to the 207 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: arrest affidavit to Joseph Scott Morgan, their core body temperatures 208 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: were just ninety four degrees For I was spending so 209 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: much time locked in an unheeded bedroom shared by all three. 210 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: What does it mean when your body temperature is down 211 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: four points? Oh, it's it's you're you're getting into arrange 212 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: their nancy where the body is in an unsustainable uh posture. Again, 213 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: just goes back to the malnourishment the kids. I mean, 214 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: it's very simple science that these kids have no installation 215 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: in dwelling in their body. That's one of the reasons 216 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: we have a fat layer on our body, so their 217 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: core body temperature is easily going to drop. Let's think 218 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: about like if any of us have aged aged family 219 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: or friends around. One of the things that many of 220 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: the agent always complain about is talking about they're constantly 221 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: feeling cold. Well. One of the reasons is is that 222 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: they've lost body mass at that point in time in 223 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: their life and they've got poor circulation. That's what I'm 224 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: talking about with these kids. These kids have been almost 225 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: in an accelerated posture going forward where the aging process 226 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: is taken in my bed, is this Nancy moving down 227 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: the road years and years from now. There is a 228 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: possibility that these kids could have a shortened life as 229 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: a result of this taking place during their developmental process. 230 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: There was even a guy in his fiancee that rented 231 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,119 Speaker 1: one I told you there wasn't a two attached garages 232 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: to the home. It turns out that one of them 233 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: was being rented out as an apartment. Believe it or not, 234 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: they were making money off a renter, like in a 235 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: guest area of the home. He says he and his 236 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: fiance lived there and they had no idea how many 237 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: children lived there. He never even knew about the inhabitants 238 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: of the locked room. When he was asked, he replied 239 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: he thought the wooden structure behind the home was a playhouse, 240 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: although he never saw any children in it. How can 241 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: that be? How can that be, Ashley, that you got 242 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: somebody renting and they are in shock they didn't even 243 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: know the children were there. Well, keep in mind, these 244 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: two parents are criminals, and they are going to hide 245 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: what they have done or are doing. And my question 246 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: is if you have three children who have been starved 247 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: to the point of malnutrition and almost death, which means 248 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: a long period of time, these children maybe not make 249 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: able to make any noise, to not cry out, to 250 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: not be heard. And if the renters are renting and 251 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: ignoring what's what's going on or going into the big house, 252 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: I see that criminals could hide this activity. Sadly, you know. 253 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: According to the state police affidavit, which I have read 254 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: in detail, the children told deputies they were locked in 255 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: their room and could not leave. Investigators found hook and 256 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: eye locks on the outside of the children's bedroom door. 257 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: They stated they would pound on the wall to be 258 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: let out to use the bathroom, and no one would come, 259 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: so they would just urinate on themselves or the floor. 260 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: The affidavit states that the room quote reeked of a 261 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: strong odor similar to that of caged animals. The two 262 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: older of five and six year old were so emaciated 263 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: that their ribs, spines, and other bones were actually visible 264 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: through their skin. And this just breaks my heart, Alexis. 265 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: The children say the last thing they remembered eating was 266 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: an apple, and they they told the police that the 267 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: reason they were locked in the room was because they 268 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: got caught trying to They used the word steal food. 269 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: When your child lives in your house, they're not stealing 270 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: your food, and that's what they said. And these kids 271 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: are so little, four, five and six to tell to understand, 272 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: to tell the police that the reason that they were 273 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: locked in was because they tried to steal food. It's 274 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: so sad. And also, you know the woman their parents 275 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: rented this home, this this they didn't even own this house, 276 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: they rented it. And their landlady said that originally they 277 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: had always been very responsible tenants, that they paid the 278 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: rent on time, they always called and said if something 279 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: had happened, they were they were respectful, and she said 280 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: with them when she when they went the police found 281 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: the house, there were lice in the house, there were 282 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: bed bugs in the house, and there was mold everywhere. 283 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: And that's how these kids were living. And here's the dichotomy. 284 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: Listen to this. Ash The mom, Brandy Wyant thirty eight, 285 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: clipped cupons and eat it for food and actually sent 286 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: extra bushels of apples and frozen food to her neighbors. 287 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: Joshua the husband would clear away trash and rake the lawn. 288 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: And they even had recently hosted a birthday party with 289 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: the bonfire in the backyard. Now what do you think 290 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: about that, Ashid? The children could smell, for instance, hot 291 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: dogs and hamburgers cooking at the party in the backyard 292 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: while they're locked in the dark at ninety four degrees 293 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: body chump eating paint off the wall. Nancy, this is crap. 294 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: This It devastates me. It breaks my heart. But more 295 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: than that, it makes me angry. I am telling you 296 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: right now, in my expert opinion, they were getting a 297 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: paycheck for each of these children. They locked them away, 298 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: they ignored them, they discarded him. These children are going 299 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: to be traumatized forever. Their physical and mental health is 300 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: going to be an issue forever. They are going to 301 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: require treatment forever. In these pieces, you know what, parents 302 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: sat around living high off the hog. This case discuss me, 303 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, I know defense attorneys and shrinks won't disagree 304 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: with me, but I just wish people that treated children 305 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: this way could just be sent away to an island 306 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: and they can all enjoy each other's company and never 307 00:20:53,240 --> 00:21:00,719 Speaker 1: be here to scare or mistreat or abuse children ever. Again. 308 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: Take a listen to what the chief Deputy District Attorney, 309 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: Jennifer Gettle says. I think that perhaps the most horrifying 310 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: pictures of are of the three children. Of course, Uh, 311 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: they look like they walked out of a concentration camp. Um, 312 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,719 Speaker 1: just as we would have had the testimony about two 313 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: weeks for two of them, two weeks away from death. 314 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: Um is what the doctors had told us. Um. Of course, 315 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: the conditions of what they were sleeping in. I know 316 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: that there have been pictures out in the media that 317 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: show a room with lots of things in it. Um, 318 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: excuse me, but the reality was the room, as the 319 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: police founded on that day, was completely empty. Uh. There 320 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: were no beds in that room. There were no toys 321 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: in that room. Uh. The only thing that there was 322 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: was the paint peeling off of the wall. Um. Did 323 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: you talk about the kids, I don't. Uh did the 324 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: defendants the defendants did not make any statements today. How 325 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: are the kids doing. They're doing much better. All three 326 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: of them are now out of the hospital and they're 327 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: they're thriving. They have upled their weight since since the 328 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: police became involved. Are they in foster care at this 329 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: point there in care? It's not with their family obviously. 330 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: I want to pause right now and thank our partner 331 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: making our investigation into the Halifax, Pennsylvania case possible. It's 332 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: Legal Zoom and I value them as my partner here 333 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: at sirius x two. You know, small business big hot 334 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: topic this year National Small Business Month. At legal Zoom 335 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: perfect timing whether you're just starting out or already have 336 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: a business. Two thousand eight team presents incredible opportunities because 337 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: new tax laws, which include the biggest changes in tax 338 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: laws for business owners in the last thirty years, have happened. 339 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: Legal Zoom helps you understand what it all means to you. 340 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: Legal Zoom not a law firm, instead a nationwide network 341 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: of independent lawyers and tax professionals to help steer you 342 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: into the right resources to run your successful business. They 343 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: use sixteen years of experience to give business owners all 344 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: the tools they need to start and run their business 345 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: the right way every day now over the next week's 346 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: find out how legal zoom can help you during National 347 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: Small Business Month. Don't miss us check out legal zoom 348 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: dot com today special savings when you enter code Nancy 349 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: at the referral box at check out legal Zoom where 350 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: life meets legal legal zoom dot com thank you for 351 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: being our partner. Seventeen sets of parents laying their children 352 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: to rest. We are live in Florida with the latest 353 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: on the Florida school shooter, one of the worst shootings 354 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: in a school in US history, and of course this 355 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: morning it's WOULDA, COULDA, shoulda? What should we have done? 356 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 1: Why didn't this happen? Or that happen? That is cold 357 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: comfort for the families of these dead children. This shooter, 358 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: Nicholas Cruz, showing quite a bit of cunning and purchasing weapons, 359 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: sneaking back to the school where he had already been expelled, 360 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: gunning down classmates, then intentionally blending into the crowd, even 361 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: callously going to a sandwich shop at McDonald's to kick 362 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: back after murdering seventeen and injuring others. Straight out to 363 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter John what is the latest. 364 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: I know that Cruise was just in court. I know 365 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: that a judge has ordered the release of social services 366 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: records on Nicholas Cruise. We're learning about the gun cabinet 367 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: that should have been locked, and we're learning about how 368 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: many guns Nicholas Cruise purchased. What do you know, John Lemley? 369 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: So many details Nancy coming our way in just shy 370 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: of a week now since the shooting. Funerals continue on 371 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: a daily, grim pace, several a day for the victims. 372 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: As you mentioned, the suspect Nicholas Cruise appeared in court 373 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: for a procedural hearing on Monday. He had nothing to 374 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: say in that Broward County Circuit court. This time. He 375 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: actually attended in person, not by way of video. He 376 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: kept his head down, did not appear to make eye 377 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: contact with the judge or others in the court room. 378 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: Maybe for a moment, he responded briefly to somebody on 379 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: his defense team. The hearing was all about the rules 380 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: going forward, about how documents are going to be sealed. 381 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: The circuit Judge, Elizabeth Sherri said that she was in 382 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: favor of openness whenever possible, and the lawyers for crews 383 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: have said that he will plead guilty if prosecutors agree 384 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: not to pursue the death penalty. No decision yet has 385 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: been made on that. Meanwhile, in Fort Lauderdale, UH judge 386 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: has ordered the release of a state investigation into allegations 387 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: of abuse and neglect in the home of Nicholas Cruz. 388 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: The records were released on Monday and detail how in 389 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: the late part of social workers mental health investigators evaluated 390 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: and diagnosed Crews with autism, depression, and a d h D. 391 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: All right there, why wh wha wait? Who diagnosed him 392 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: with autism? These were mental health investigators well hired by him. 393 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: They were part of the social worker case that had 394 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: been opened to look into possible abuse in his home. 395 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: Abuse because at the thirty nine times that I know 396 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: the police were called, it was all him abusing his 397 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: mother and others neighbors as well. I don't recall learning 398 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: about any police reports regarding his abuse. Correct me if 399 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, John Limley, that that is correct. But there 400 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: were rumors that it might be the flip side, that 401 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: he might be the one experiencing the abuse. How could 402 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: thirty nine police reports all be wrong? John? That's that's 403 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: the head scratcher. Right, I'm trying to make sense of this, Um, 404 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: John Lemley, how many guns do you think do we 405 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: think at this juncture Cruise purchased. We think it could 406 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: be in the teens of firearms. A law enforcement source 407 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: briefed on the investigation, UH said that crews had obtained 408 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: at least ten all of them rifles, one of them 409 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: uh and a K fourteen just in the past month alone. 410 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: You know, I know that the family that took him 411 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: in owns up to him having five or six weapons 412 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: and claims he had a right to own an a 413 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: R fifteen. I'm I'm confused about something. Maybe I don't 414 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: understand the facts correctly, John Lemley. You said that police 415 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: forces are saying he had up in the teens of weapons, right. 416 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: Add in all of the accessories that go with these guns. Uh. 417 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: He purchased different guns at different stores. Uh. And then 418 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: on top of that, any sort of accessories to make 419 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: the gun more powerful. Uh. Those were purchased at yet 420 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: other stores could be online. Uh. There are still some 421 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: questions about that. I'm trying to understand. To Dr Tiffany Sanders, 422 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: Chicago psychologists joining us here on serious sex in two, 423 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany. Those that know him do not believe that 424 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: he is autistic. He had a job at the local 425 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: dollar tree and was performing normally, if not well. He 426 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: had gotten to all the way up through high school 427 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: m you know, functioning gray to great great. He had 428 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: been held back twice. I know at least that much. 429 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: He managed to go and purchase on his own all 430 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: of these weapons, filling out forms showing I D saving 431 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: the money to go by the weapons, going on social media, 432 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: posting about himself and photos, and his interests including his 433 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: intent to become a quote professional school shooter. I don't 434 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: see how he falls under the autistic spectrum, right, Nancy, 435 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: and I've worked with tons of children and adolescents who 436 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: fall in the autism spectrums UH disorder, and typically you 437 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: will see those kids identified as youngest age two and three. 438 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: These individuals will have developmental delays, difficulty with language, difficulty 439 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: with nonverbal skills UM. They also can suffer from other 440 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: mental health difficulties such as UH seizures, anxiety, a d 441 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: H d UM and and what you often truly see 442 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: as many of these kids have. With their poor language 443 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: skills difficulty communicating, they're not likely to hold down a job. 444 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: These individuals are often enrolled in high school pro rooms 445 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: that are life skill based, teaching them basic skills such 446 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: as math, reading, just so that they can function within life. 447 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: So I'm highly doubtful that he had autism UM, but 448 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: I'm more likely to assume that he had conduct disorder 449 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: because reports have mentioned that he tortured or abused animals. UM. 450 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: He had a history of posting uh ominous messages on 451 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: social media, threatening um and intimidating others. UH. He has 452 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: had access to all these sorts of weapons and and 453 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: truly has been a sort of a bully to others. 454 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: So that behavior is more in line with conduct disorder, 455 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: which leads to some of these actions that he later 456 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: took involving killing seventeen people. Take a listen to what 457 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: his new parents that have taken him in since his 458 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: mom passed away with the flu just recently have to say. 459 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: This is James and Kimberly Snead talking on our friend 460 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: ABC's Good Morning America. Listen, it's a roller coaster of emotions. UM, 461 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's still tough. It's still we're still 462 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: already still grieving, um. The families, it's effected, and and 463 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: and you open your home to cruise for nearly three months, 464 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: and you tried to get him counseling. And what was 465 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: he like in your home? Nothing that they portrayed on 466 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: television or in the media. Everything everybody seems to know. 467 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: We didn't know. Um. We had rules and he followed 468 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: every rule to the team. And before he moved into 469 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: your home, how well did you know him? I had 470 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: met him a couple of times before, he had spent 471 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: the night at the house, and he was very polite. Um, 472 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: he didn't. He seemed normal. And Kimberly, can you take 473 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: us back to that day? Were there anything unusual out 474 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: of the normal with his behavior before that day? No? No, no. 475 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: The only thing that was maybe different was that he 476 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: didn't go to school. He usually drives him to school 477 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: and with him in the morning, he didn't go and 478 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: that particular morning, which sometimes happens anything. He said he 479 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: didn't go to school on Valentine's Day? But when did 480 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: you realize what he had done? Um? After the SWAT 481 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: team called me and asked where if I knew where 482 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: my son Nicholas was, and I said, he's not my son, 483 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: but I don't know where he's at. And at that 484 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: point I got in touch with my son, who was 485 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: fleeing the scene at that point, and m Description came 486 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: out and we put two and two together, me and 487 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: my son, and we figured out what was happening and 488 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: what was going through your mind when this happened. Did 489 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: you did you both find out at the same time. No, 490 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,479 Speaker 1: she was home sleeping and um. At that point, I 491 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: was panic stricken for her safety. So I called the 492 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: SWAT officer back to get the police back to my 493 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: home to check on her. And and after all this happened, 494 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: at one point, you did get a chance to see 495 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: Nicholas And what did you say to him? Did he 496 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: and did he speak back to you? It's anything back. 497 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: It was at the police station when they were going 498 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: past us, and I basically I went after him. I 499 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: really wanted to strugg neus, to strangle inbu more than anything, 500 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: and I just everything I wanted to say, I just didn't. 501 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 1: I tried to reserve myself. I was is really nick 502 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: really you know, yelled at him and he mumbled something 503 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: but I didn't hear. And he said he said he 504 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 1: was sorry. I said he was sorry. I didn't hear 505 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: that I was just furious and heartbroken, absolutely just heartbroken 506 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: and devastated. And I still can't process it what he's 507 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: done because this wasn't the person that we knew, not 508 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: at all, and he was friends with your son. How's 509 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: your son holding up? He's he's angry, he's angry, he's betrayed, 510 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: he's you know, um, he's upset, furious. Um. He was 511 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 1: at that school too, and he had friends at that school. 512 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: Joining me right now, special guest in addition to Ashley Wilcott, 513 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: Joseph's Got, Morgan Dodger, Tiffany Sanders, and John Limley joining 514 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: me now. A lawyer who specializes in school law, Andrea Titil. Andrea, 515 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I'd like to hear 516 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: your thoughts. This poor child fell through the cracks. And 517 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: the school district is the pay or and identify or 518 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: of first resort and a child spends most of their 519 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: time in school. He was identified, should have been identified 520 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: under the I d e A, under a mandate called 521 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: Child Find and he fell through the cracks. Oh, my 522 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: thoughts are are so focused on the school district and 523 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: what could have and should have been done in school 524 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: districts Nancy have an affirmative duty to identify these children. 525 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:54,959 Speaker 1: They received federal block grant money from Congress every year, 526 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: and in exchange for that money, they promised to implement 527 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: and provide special education law. Special education law, under a 528 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 1: mandate called child find requires the school districts to identify, evaluate, 529 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: and remediate problems. This boy's problems did not start before 530 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: he was expelled. These this boy's problems started long ago, 531 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: and they had a duty to identify him, to assess him, 532 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: to hold a meeting, and to make sure he was 533 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:36,439 Speaker 1: offered the programming and services necessary to help remediate him. 534 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: School districts have an array of services that they can offer, 535 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: including counseling in school and all the way up through 536 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: hospitalization and residential treatment programs at no cost. Question to you, Andrea, 537 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: Andrea Titel, why do you think none of this was 538 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: done the things you're saying should have been done. It 539 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: seems to me that we've got a a cadre of 540 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: social workers and mental health counselors and school administrators who 541 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,720 Speaker 1: are the on the front lines documenting everything they've learned. 542 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: They are meeting with him, they are counseling him, they 543 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: are trying to help him because they've had multiple countless 544 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: meetings and sessions with the workers. Unfortunately, there is so 545 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: little continuity of care, and that's what happens. This was 546 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: an accident waiting to happen long before. But you were 547 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: saying he should have gotten all that. But apparently he 548 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: did get all that based on and paid for by 549 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: you and me and everybody listening right now. We paid 550 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: for that, and I'm happy to and he got those services. 551 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: Those services were rendered to him. The services that that 552 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: he needed required a residential more likely mill you with 553 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: education and therapy and whatever else he needed. It doesn't 554 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: sound to me like this young man was given the 555 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: extent and the level of service that he deserved and required. 556 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: So now, Andrea, you're saying, first it was he didn't 557 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: get the services. Then when I point out he did 558 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: get the services, you are now saying he got the 559 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: wrong services, and you are deciding that he should have 560 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: been you said residential treatment. I mean, I don't know 561 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: if that ever did or didn't happen, but I do 562 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: know that family and neighbors say his parents, mother and 563 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: father that took him and his brother in when they 564 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: were infants, when they were little little boys worked so 565 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: hard to give them a quote beautiful home, and outwardly 566 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: the home is beautiful. The mother and father both worked 567 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: full time and really strove to give them all the 568 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: love they thought they needed after they were abandoned by 569 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: their first parents. And I'm just trying to figure out 570 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: what you know that I don't know, because I know 571 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: he met met with mental health workers at the school. 572 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: Social workers, school counselors repeatedly, Now, why do you think 573 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: he should have gone into a residential treatment. I don't 574 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: believe that this young man had an I e P. 575 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: I don't know that to be the truth, but I 576 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: would be very curious to ascertain that. And I e 577 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: P is an individualized educational program that does cover mental 578 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: health issues. I believe that he was and should have 579 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: been found eligible for special education under the criteria of 580 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: severely emotionally disturbed. I don't believe that to be the case. 581 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: And the fact that DCF identified him through mental health workers, 582 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: they are not the ones that provide the services. It 583 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: is the school. The school is the identifier and pay 584 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: or of first resort for these services. But I've also 585 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: done some investigation, and I've learned that DCF said he 586 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: was in good shape, he was with his mom, and 587 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 1: he was going to school, and that was the last 588 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: report that they did and posed no threat whatsoever to society. 589 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 1: Joining me also as child welfare law expert Ashley Wilcott 590 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:35,240 Speaker 1: Ashley Um investigators noted his health diagnosis and it seemed 591 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: to manifest in hatred, Nazi symbols on his book back 592 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: his backpack, next to a declaration written I hate and 593 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: a racial slur which I'm not even going to state 594 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:06,439 Speaker 1: and Sully serious sex that's on his backpack. Um. Yes, 595 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: all the signs were there and he was expelled. Ashley, 596 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: I mean you hear what Andrew ty Tail is saying. 597 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: She specializes in school law. I'm sure she's right in 598 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: that he should have been dealing with a counselor at 599 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: school and someone to help him. But it sounds like 600 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,760 Speaker 1: that did happen, Ashley. What am I missing? Well, even 601 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: if that happened, that's not the only person or agency 602 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 1: responsible when you have a child who has so many 603 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 1: signs of red flags of help, help, help, help, keeping 604 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: mind Nancy. From my perspective of child welfare, he was adopted. 605 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: We don't know if he was adopted from the system 606 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: or a private individual. We don't know what happened to 607 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: him before he was adopted, but if it caused trauma, 608 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: repeated trauma, Brian brain science now shows that could change 609 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,879 Speaker 1: the way his brain functions. Was that ever treated by 610 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: the adoptive family, Was that ever treated by anyone who 611 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,279 Speaker 1: was caretaking for him in his life? So they're a 612 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: whole host of people responsible for seeking the help for him. 613 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,439 Speaker 1: Bottom line, he was messed up. He did not get 614 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: whether services were provided or not, it was not sufficient. 615 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: Well I know this. Uh. Cruiz finally declined to talk 616 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: to Department Child and Family Services, an investigator who comes 617 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: to his home to try to help him, and said 618 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: he had quote talked about the situation enough. I want 619 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: to speak also to the FBI, and I agree heads 620 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: should roll a. I believe it was a parole officer, 621 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 1: Is that right? Joseph Scott Morgan partnered parole in Mississippi 622 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: contacted the FBI about Cruise posting I'm going to be 623 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: a professional school shooter online. And also I'm looking right 624 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: now at an Instagram post by Cruise allegedly showing I 625 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: don't know even know how many weapons lying out on 626 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: his bed on display, including you know, semi automatic weapons. Yeah. 627 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: The uh, the the image they're based on what we're hearing, 628 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: Nancy is only scratching the surface relative to the weapons 629 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: that he had. Uh. The if you in that image, 630 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 1: you can actually see the the a R platform weapon 631 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: that he had that's based upon. For people at home 632 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: that don't understand this is this is based upon the 633 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,879 Speaker 1: same platform that our troops use in Afghanistan. Um, it's 634 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: them four and uh it was just mentioned by John 635 00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: a little while ago. There are a lot of a 636 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: attachments that go onto this weapon. This weapon gets to 637 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,319 Speaker 1: can get to be very very expensive. And that's one 638 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: of the curious things about this. He's working at Dollar 639 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: Tree and he can afford these weapons. He's also got 640 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: scoped high powered rifles there. I think I saw what 641 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: appeared to be uh maybe like a three or eight 642 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: dear rifle with a scope. There's a handgun there, a 643 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 1: couple of shotguns. And then John had also mentioned that 644 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: he got an a k uh platform weapon. And again 645 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: for folks that don't know, that's the variant on what 646 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: the Russian Army carries. And so he's got a lot 647 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:41,399 Speaker 1: of firepower here. And for me, from the perspective of, say, 648 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: looking at this as an investigator and talking about the FBI, 649 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: how in the world, how in the world can you 650 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,839 Speaker 1: take all of these reports and not make something out 651 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,600 Speaker 1: of this and move forward? Uh? This this kid is 652 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: a threat. Uh. And people can accuse me of mon 653 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: d morning quarterback. I don't care because at this point 654 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: they're seventeen dead people. And not to mention people that 655 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: have been scarred and maimed for the rest of your life. 656 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,240 Speaker 1: And let's don't forget about the victims families, um, and 657 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: and for what it costs you a gallon of gasoline 658 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: to go and and and use old fashioned shoe leather 659 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: as an investigator and route these things out, I think 660 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 1: their focus needs to be on cases like this, keeping 661 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: as we say, the homeland secured. I'm just looking at 662 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: these photos and I'm thinking of how I dropped my 663 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: children at school every day, and what these parents must 664 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: have gone through when they learned there's been a school shooting. 665 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: They raced to the school, leaving home, leaving work, trying 666 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: to get there in time, and they find out their 667 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: child is the one found dead in a pool of 668 00:45:55,160 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: blood at school. I mean, we can Monday Morning quarterback. 669 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 1: All we want to, as you put it, Joe Scott 670 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: Morgan Andrew Titail brings up with the school should have 671 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: been doing Did they? I don't know. Dr Tiffany Sanders 672 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: has an opinion well founded Joe Scott Morgan, Ashley Willcott, 673 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:22,360 Speaker 1: John Limley. But I know for one clear direction is 674 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: the FBI. John Limley. I'm stunned at the FBI ignoring this, 675 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 1: doing nothing, even saying they couldn't verify the posters I 676 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,279 Speaker 1: d I mean even I know how to identify an 677 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: I P address, John Limley, That investigation has just begun, 678 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 1: if you could even consider it underway. We mentioned from 679 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:52,480 Speaker 1: the outset that Florida Department of Children and Families investigation 680 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: of Nicholas Cruz possibly being mistreated at home. It's interesting 681 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 1: to note the ultimate findings in the report. The DCF 682 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 1: noted that Cruise had admitted to cutting himself, felt depressed, 683 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: and planned to purchase a gun, but investigators determined that 684 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,720 Speaker 1: Cruz's mother did not mistreat him. That was the ultimate 685 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: goal of the investigation, was to determine if he was 686 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 1: being mistreated. They did site earlier decisions by counselors that 687 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:30,840 Speaker 1: he was not a threat to himself or others. Ultimately, 688 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: Cruz was not hospitalized and DCF closed the file. Take 689 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 1: a listen to what the family that took Cruise in 690 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,919 Speaker 1: had to say on ABC's g m A. We knew 691 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: he had one Instagram account that my son had, and 692 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 1: I guess that would be the normal one. Um these 693 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: other Instagram accounts that he had, we had no idea about. 694 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: My son had no idea about. Um. As far as 695 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,480 Speaker 1: the animal killings, he never did anything like that at 696 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,720 Speaker 1: our house. We have animals, and he loved our animals. 697 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,920 Speaker 1: Our animals loved him. And you were aware that he 698 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,279 Speaker 1: had weapons when he moved into your home. Absolutely, and 699 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,360 Speaker 1: where were they kept? Um? We before he moved in. 700 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: One of the stipulations is that he had to get 701 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: a gun safe. And we got a gun safe on 702 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,680 Speaker 1: the way back from Lantana from moving his stuff to 703 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: our house. And did he have he didn't have free 704 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,880 Speaker 1: access to this gun? No? No, um I thought I 705 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,359 Speaker 1: had the only key to the gun safe. And and 706 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,880 Speaker 1: had he ever asked you beforehand to to you the 707 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: gun to take it out of the safe? He asked twice? 708 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,759 Speaker 1: Um once um I said yes, because he wanted to 709 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,120 Speaker 1: clean it. And I don't know which gun he wanted 710 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 1: to clean, but he said, you want to clean the gun? 711 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,239 Speaker 1: I said, okay. And another time he asked, and I 712 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: told him no, it wasn't a good time. And why 713 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: did you tell him no? There? I don't know what 714 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: the situation was in the house. It was just it 715 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 1: wasn't a good time. I don't know we were getting 716 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 1: ready to leave, or getting ready to sit down for 717 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,239 Speaker 1: dinner or something, but it wasn't a good time. And 718 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,359 Speaker 1: and judging from any path interaction with him, and seemed 719 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 1: that you had no problem with him having a weapon, No, 720 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,880 Speaker 1: not at all. He followed the rules. He followed the rules, 721 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,759 Speaker 1: followed the rules. They weren't allowed to be out if 722 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: we weren't home or one of us wasn't home. Um, 723 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 1: and he knew that, and to our knowledge, he never 724 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: had them out as far as the animals goes, if 725 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: he I am very much an animal person. Anybody who 726 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,760 Speaker 1: knows me knows that there's no way I'd let anybody 727 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,840 Speaker 1: in my house if I thought they was torturing animals 728 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: at all. And if we'd known anything about the Instagram 729 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: accounts or I don't, I don't even know how to 730 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: use Instagram a little old school. But if we had 731 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: known anything about that, he wouldn't even been in our home. 732 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,360 Speaker 1: That wouldn't even been an option. And do you have 733 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 1: any do you have a message for the family that 734 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,759 Speaker 1: there who've lost children, an or of lot of loved 735 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: one didness trappy? Nothing I can say, well, we'll heal them. Um, 736 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: we hurt for them deeply, very much. So we're devastated 737 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: and I can't imagine um the pain they must be feeling. 738 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,600 Speaker 1: And like he said, nothing that we can say is 739 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:58,080 Speaker 1: going to be any kind of help. But I'm very sorry. 740 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:03,360 Speaker 1: You know, they had this experience and never should have happened. 741 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: And again, if we had known any of the things 742 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,960 Speaker 1: that we're hearing, we're learning a lot about all of us, 743 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 1: just the same as everybody else, you know, and we 744 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: feel a trade as well and just shocked. You know. 745 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,640 Speaker 1: I may sound like I'm disagreeing with various guests today. 746 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,799 Speaker 1: I'm looking for answers. They may be right, they may 747 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: be wrong, because we're sifting through the rubble of a 748 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: horrific crime, a crime that will reverberate in that community 749 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:44,600 Speaker 1: and in those families and at those cemeteries from now on. 750 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,360 Speaker 1: You know, so often when I investigate a report on crimes, 751 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,920 Speaker 1: I don't let myself think about the actuality of the crime. 752 00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,040 Speaker 1: I was forced to do it as a prosecutor. And 753 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 1: it's hanful to think of a child gunned down dead 754 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: at school when you are forced to think about them 755 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,719 Speaker 1: lying in the floor as their life force drains out 756 00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:20,960 Speaker 1: of them, alone, with people running away, jumping over them, 757 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:30,359 Speaker 1: away from their parents, dying alone on the floor. That 758 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:35,600 Speaker 1: is what has happened to these children. The only thing 759 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,720 Speaker 1: we can do now is search for the truth, whatever 760 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:47,040 Speaker 1: it may be, and seek change. Nancy Grace Crime Story, 761 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,640 Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,