WEBVTT - CDC Relaxes Mask Guidance for Vaccinated People 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all parnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.160 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.760 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Just about an hour ago, 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:35.040 at crossed about the CDC to say, vaccinated people can 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:39.879 often dish, ditch, ditch, yeah, masks indoors. That is a 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.120 big deal and listen. This could potentially be a game 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.600 changer in terms of maybe how people think about getting 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:50.000 the vaccine because it does potentially significantly change your world, 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:51.639 and how do you go about it. Say that, hey, 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:53.199 there's a big point in getting the vaccine. I don't 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.279 have to wear this mask anymore. Well, let's get right 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.440 to it with a Dr Bill Moss, Professor Epidemiology at 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.200 the Johns Hopkins at Bloomberg School Public Health, also executive 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.160 director of the International Vaccine Access Center, joining us now 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:06.440 on the phone from Baltimore. The Bloomberg School of Public 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.080 Health is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.280 LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Moss, it's great to have 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.160 you with us, especially on a day when we learned 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.480 this striking news from the CDC. Uh, I'm I'm wondering 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.600 what your reaction was when you saw it. Yes, thanks 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.040 to him for thanks him for having me and uh, 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.760 you know, I think this is really big news. And uh, 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.200 Rochette Lonski, the director of the CDC, was talking updated 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:38.600 guidance ently, this is it. I think this is really important. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:43.160 As Carol said, you can really help motivate people to 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.240 get back to it. It's not going to motivate everyone, um, 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:48.360 and we still have a ways to go in improving 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:53.160 access and addressing other causes of concerns for getting vaccines, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.480 but being able to shed your mask indoors is a 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.280 real motivator. Hey Bill, Dr males Is, does it make 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.440 you though a little apprehensive that maybe we're doing it 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:11.240 a little early. Well, it's a tough balance. You know, 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.120 I would say, you know, there are still some communities 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.679 in the United States where there's a lot of virus transmission, 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.799 and so the risk maybe higher. It will be higher 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.280 in those communities, But the fact that we're seeing cases 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.240 come down, Uh, we still want to see them come 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.880 down much further. Um as vaccination levels going up, although 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:36.240 the pace has slowed. UM that combination really makes us safer. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.200 And I think people needed a motivating factor. They needed 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:44.160 to see some of the real tangible benefits of getting 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.880 back to So does this get us President Biden's goal 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:51.640 by the fourth of July American adults getting a shot. 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.120 I hope. I think it will contribute him, But I 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.880 think there's still more to do. We know that there 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.000 are some Americans who want to get back to native 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.359 and they're just having trouble doing it for for a 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:04.880 variety of reasons. And so we need to do have 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:10.160 greater efforts to bring vaccines to people um. And we 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.080 also need to do more to try to address the 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.640 various concerns, whether it's about you know, the safety of 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.120 the vaccine, or or people just underestimating the risk of 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.440 COVID nineteen to themselves, to their family we still have 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.240 more work to do, but I think this, this will help. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.679 So how does this play out? Because here's what Dr 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.960 Rochelle Willinsky just said. The CDC is updating our guidance 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.680 for fully vaccinated people. Anyone who is fully vaccinated can 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.480 participate in indoor air act or activities large or small 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.200 without wearing a mask or physical distancing. If you are 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.040 fully vaccinated, you can start doing the things that you 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.080 would stop doing because of the pandemic. Once you're fully 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.640 vaccinated two weeks after your last DOST, you can shed 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.320 your masks. So does that mean we should just be 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.680 going to the grocery store and taking our masks off 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.400 in the grocery store. I think this is this will 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.880 still be a personal decision. I mean that they're Uh. 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:07.960 Dr Willens is really trying to normalize the lives of 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.240 people who are fully vaccinated, bring us back really to 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:16.440 pre pandemic situation. Uh. Again for those who are fully vaccinated. 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.919 But we we know the vaccines are protective at least 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.880 the instant section of mild. Least, we still have to 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:28.160 monitor for variants that may tape some of some of 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.120 the immunity conferred by the vaccine. That's still a concern. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.560 We haven't seen real solid evidence that that's happening yet. Um, 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.279 but I think I think people will make of a 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.320 personal decision about their risk. You know. One other, one 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.359 other thing that we should talk about is, you know, 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:48.000 this past year we've seen the lowest levels of influenza 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:52.920 virus infection storys insitial virus infections, and that's because of 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.800 the masking and and public health precautions that we've taken. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.640 So I think we as a society can look hardest 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:01.840 to w that we want to continue some of the 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:06.200 particularly different influenza season or other restiry disease seasons, which 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.960 are largely in the winter time. Yeah. No, it's it's 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.000 interesting that you say that, and I thought about it, 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.440 uh as I am, you know, walking a little bit 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.440 more around the city and just thinking about this past 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:18.800 year and thinking about how none of us really in 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.159 our family got any kind of serious colds or or 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.640 or flu that that's true. Um. Having said that, you 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.120 made the point that the vaccines are not a hundred 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:32.240 percent effective, and we're figuring it out when to the 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.240 immunity goes away. So I don't know whether it's in 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.520 a few months we're gonna have to think about boosters. Correct, 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.200 just got about forty seconds. Then we'll come back and 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.719 talk some more. Yes, Uh, we still don't know yet, 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.719 Uh the duration of the protection exactly as you said, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.640 but we are going to start having to think about boosters, 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.640 either because of waning immunity or because of the emergence 0:05:54.720 --> 0:06:01.479 and widespread transmission of variant. So yesterday we got some 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.880 more on twelve to fifteen year olds that a group 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.680 of medical experts saying children in that age group can 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.120 safely take the COVED nineteen vaccine made by Fiser and 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:16.120 by in Tech. How important is it, though, Bill, to 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:20.480 getting kids vaccinated, to us getting to her immunity, or 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:26.120 at least closer to it, or more her immunity than less. Yes, 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.279 but it's certainly Carol gets us closer to her immunity. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.279 There are approximate seventeen million children in that age group 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.240 in the United States, and you're exactly right. Food and 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.480 Drug Administration issued an emergency Youth authorization and then we 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:43.760 got the CDC approval and pushman to go Sason. Why 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.159 it's important for children to be vaccinated first, it's to 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.760 protect the child. We we know children have our lower 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.200 risk of severe disease, but sillions of children have been 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.160 effective the United States, thousands hospitalized, even hundreds died, and 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.680 some children are at risk for an inflammatory or syndrome 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.680 even if they've had very mild covide. The second reason 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.159 is just to help our children get back to normal lots, 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.600 summer camp, get to school, um and then lastly, really 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.840 protect our families and friends and communities, because really anyone 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:20.200 susceptible to infection as a potential transmitter of infection. Dr Moss, 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.760 what's a realistic way for us to think about how 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.840 even younger age groups can get access to the vaccine? 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.440 Is it pretty typical that if something is safe for 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.400 twelve to fifteen year olds, it can be safe for 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.440 eight to eleven year olds and safe for two to 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.240 seven year old Is that a realistic way to think 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:40.360 about it. That's that's the reasonable assumption to him. But 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.440 it still needs to be studied, and so the vaccine 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.520 manufacturers fies them with Derna, Dunson, and Johnson are all 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.640 studying the safety and efficacy of these vacts in the 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.680 younger and younger children. This is a typical way that 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.000 vaccines are studied. You start in uh in adults, and 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.960 you kind of work your way down in in groups 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.280 of children. So we're seeing studies in children five to 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.960 eleven years of age and then uh, you know, younger 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.080 ages two years to uh to four years of age 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.360 and even under two six months two years of age. So, UM, 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.600 what we have to what has to be looked at 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.120 you very carefully though, is we get to younger children. 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.480 Is the dosing, and so all the vaccine manufacturers look 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:26.240 to see whether a smaller dose of the vaccine will 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.920 will also be safe and effective. Vaccinating the world is 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.800 proving to be a lot more difficult, and maybe not 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.640 as a surprise. Um, why is it important, Bill that 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.200 the US turn its attention to vaccinating the world and 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:46.480 what does the US need to be doing? Yes, girl, 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.200 I think this is the most important question facing the 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.400 United States right now. Uh. It's understandable that we're focused 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.960 on our own population. We had a terrible pandemic uh 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.560 in the United States, but I think we're reaching a 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.440 point we really need to focus on the world. You know. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.439 The bottom line, it's simple, We're not safe here in 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:09.240 the United States until this pandemic is controlled, and it's 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:14.040 a global pandemic. The more the virus is transmitted UH, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.240 particularly at the levels like we're seeing in countries like 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.480 India or Brazil, the more chances it has to mutate. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.160 And this is the time for the United States to 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.960 step up really be a leader in the global fight 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:30.160 against the pandemic. And that includes you know, donating excess 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:34.600 vaccine doses UM, allowing you know, materials to go to 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:39.840 other countries to manufacture vaccines, supporting the Kovacs facility, which 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.640 is the the UH the basically the mechanism to get 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.800 vaccines to low and middle income countries. I'm I'm wondering 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.680 about variants and vaccines because the narrative has has been 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.040 for for months now. One way to think about the 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.839 us is responsibility in getting vaccine or control around the 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.480 world is to think about it from a selfish perspective 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.240 and make sure that variance and variants that can't penetrate 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.520 vaccines don't come here. Is there any evidence that that 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:10.240 could or will happen. Well, what we've seen so far, 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.440 Tim is you know, basically the studies are supporting the 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:18.000 fact that our currents of vaccines authorized for u C 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:23.040 United States are effective against the kind of current panel 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:29.400 of of their there is some reduced UH protection um 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.040 or or you know, they require higher levels of our 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.920 protective bodies for some of the variants, for example, the 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.079 variant that was first identified in South Africa, the B 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.120 one three five one variant. But in general, all the 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.839 all the current vaccines are UH effective, particularly against the 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.320 here disease, against these variants. So we don't have to 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:57.240 panic yet, we need to be very diligent in the situation. Alright, 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.200 We're gonna leave it on that note. Thank you so 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.000 much for your time. Really appreciated. Dr Bill Moss, Professor 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.960 of Epidemiology at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.120 Executive director of the International Vaccine Access Center, and of 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.880 course the Bloomberg School of Public Health supporting my Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.120 founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Are you gonna 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.000 wear your mask now? I'm kind of comfortable with it. 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:19.959 I will say that when I was walking the streets 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:21.320 and I had a bag of potato chips, I was 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:22.760 kind of munching on it, kind of had the mask 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:27.600 back outside. It's a different story. But my daughter, who 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.360 they teach like put the mask back on Okay, it's 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:36.320 like rough, okay not this is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:42.240 Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.320 the Bloomberg Big Take also happens to be the cover 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.559 story of this week's magazine. The cover image is pretty incredible. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.600 Um My producer Paul Brennan talking about it earlier, I mean, 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.520 it was just it's amazing. You gotta check it out. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.880 It's also the most read story on the Bloomberg Today. 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.439 And Tim, it's about the former immigrant kid who is 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.559 now worth billions, the so called pie piper of the 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.800 recent link check Craze. We're talking about Chamath Polyopatia. Yeah, 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.920 if you're on Twitter and you you know, follow Chamath much. 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.840 He doesn't need any introduction. As we talked about earlier, 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.160 he's kind of like a one named person at this point. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.679 Joe Weber's editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.760 live here, and Zeke Fox is finance reporter for Bloomberg News, 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.800 joins us on the phone, but he is right here 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.360 at our New York City bureau. Joel, this is just 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.160 a fantastic read and and and my big takeaway is 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:32.240 that even though Chamath's UH spacks have really struggled this year, 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.760 Chamath is going to be totally fine. Yeah. I mean 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.960 that's sort of been the real kind of the kernel 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.040 of the story that UM uh that Zeke I think 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.240 hit on UM. You know, banks for a lot of people, 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.440 UM came out of nowhere and have become just a 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.720 theme of the past year one for just years of 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.120 our lives, and acts were one of the things that 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:00.680 UM at least became watching. And Chamath obviously and a 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:02.760 huge proponent of them. He says he wants to do 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.200 as many as UM. And you know, I think that 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.720 there's a thing that I'm going to ask you about here, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.480 which is looked like spacts can be really lucrative for 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.360 the sponsors, but Zeke, how do they how does it 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.000 look like they end up working up for for the 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.400 rest of us. So I looked into one spect that 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:27.520 Tremas promoted this year called Clover, and when he was 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.839 taking it public, he was pitching it sort of to 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.040 the everyday investor as I can't miss I'm gonna ten 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.840 ext your money kind of thing. And since then if 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:40.400 you bought it on the day that he pitched it. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:44.640 Since then it's dropped by about a quarter. Of course, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:46.480 you have to wait and see how it works out 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.000 in the long run. But the real thing that with 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:54.080 SPACs is that as a sponsor, Tamas gets of the 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.880 spack as a kind of fee called the promote um. 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.199 So he's out there saying, I've kind of discovered the 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.040 secret to being rich. I'm gonna let the little guy 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.200 into these private deals that have gotten me with where 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.760 I am um and my interests are aligned with yours. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:15.400 But meanwhile, really he's making his money off these fees, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.240 and the stock would really have to crash very low 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.760 before he would be in the red. Well, Zeke, what 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:23.920 did you find out about Clover Health when you were 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.680 doing this recording? So the pitch for Clover Health is 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.640 that it was a tech company that was going to 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.840 revolutionize healthcare, and if you weren't listening that closely, you 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.840 might not even really pick up that it was really 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.880 a health insurance company. And of course you can find 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.000 this all out from its securities filings if you're the 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.360 kind of person who reads those. But really, it's a 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.440 Medicare advantage plan that almost exclusively operates in New Jersey. 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.120 Not really a very big company, and from talking to 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.640 former employees, one that's had a lot of trouble hitting 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.320 its growth targets in the past expanding the way it 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.640 wanted to. Now, of course, they have this pitch now 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.760 that they've invented uh tech tool that's sort of the 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.240 culmination of you know, a decade of their existence that's 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.720 really going to bring together all their machine learning technology 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:18.080 to analyze patient data and recommend treatments, and that this 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.520 is what's really going to make the company take off. Um. 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.160 But I hope that the investors that are buying it 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:28.320 understand that, you know, this is a pretty risky new 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:33.720 business rather than something that is you know, guaranteed to 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:38.360 go up and you say, decade in business still losing money. 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.040 So that if it was being taken public, you know, 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.520 and it was going on a road show, you would 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.760 certainly see zeke it become under a lot of scrutiny. Yeah, 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.640 that's sort of the appeal of SPACs for a lot 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.600 of companies is when you go public, the underwriters are 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.600 worried about getting sued if they make projections that are wrong. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:05.560 So you're almost forced to dwell on your recent results. 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.120 So if you're a company with like Clover that's losing 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.440 huge amounts of money every year, but you're on the 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.440 verge of a turnaround. You say, Um, when you do 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.920 a SPAC, you can talk more about your great future 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:25.200 prospects and you can hopefully investors won't dwell on your 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.200 recent losses. And there's been just like a huge wave 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:34.280 of these unprofitable UH companies with big dreams going public 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.440 through spacts this year, and for a while, it just 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.000 seems like all of them went up. I mean almost 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:40.680 people were talking about it like it was almost a 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.320 new asset class. You could just invest in spacts and 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.600 get great returns well. And then um, gravity kind of 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.960 came in and and things have changed a little bit. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:54.240 Um and hence the spacticost flat cover. Um zeke though, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.280 I wanted to ask because despite what what we'll publish 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.040 in the magazine, and um, despite maybe that data, it 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.680 doesn't seem like it might stop Jams, right, And even 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:06.720 as you were working on this story, he announced that 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.880 there was another one coming with a certain gym chain. 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.920 So how do you how do you make sense of 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.920 of of where Jamas could go with his vision of SPACs. 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.840 So he has turned himself into kind of a brand 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.080 name like Goldman Sachs. And if you're a company that 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.560 wants to go public, maybe you hire a bank to 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.600 do an I p O. And now people are aware 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.480 that there's another option that you could merge with one 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:39.639 of Polhopatia's SPACs. And my big question is whether the 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:45.040 brand name can survive one or two bad deals. Um, 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.280 if it was it was built on just sort of 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.800 this to the moon idea, Um, is he gonna lose 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:55.000 his appeal if he has a mixed track record like 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.280 anyone who's bringing companies public is likely to have. In 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.560 the long run, you can't all be winners. But you're right, 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.960 he's just the other day Bloomberg News broke that he 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:10.840 is planning to bring the Jim Chain Equinox public um. 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.680 But well, he hasn't raised any new blank check companies 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.760 for a while, so that's something to keep an eye 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:20.119 on if he's uh raises more gets closer to his 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.840 goal of six. Like he said, it's kind of like, 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.720 you know, SPACs, are they a venture capital pool where 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.600 you're playing around? You know what you mean? Like that 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.159 maybe a lot of them will ultimately play out, But 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.800 do investors kind of totally get that versus if you 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.600 go through the I P O traditional route, you're vetted 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.240 a lot differently. One point like how many people get 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.080 hurt along the way, and what does that do for 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.280 future interest in the same things? Right, Yeah, exactly. It's 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.040 a great read and it is a great cover. We've 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.159 been talking about in the news room. Joel. Well, it 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.520 started with me saying, SPACs go splat, and then I 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.240 think we proceeded to look at as many possible versions 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.520 of the same idea as possible until we got it right. 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.800 So the one you settled on is awesome. It's really 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:01.680 really wonderful, all right. Joe Weber, of course, editor of 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:03.760 Bloomberg Business Week. That is the cover story. It's also 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.560 the Bloomberg Big Take. Seek Fox wrote it Finance reporter 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.399 at Bloomberg News. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:14.920 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes, Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.680 Hey in the magazine this week and the new issue, 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.639 as we mentioned, it is online on the Bloomberg and 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.720 on newstands. It includes Business Week Economics editor Peter Koy 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.719 writing about how to make sense of the surprising inflation signals. 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.679 And I gotta say, Tim, this is kind of just 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.000 what the doctor ordered after this week's inflation data and 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.359 market reaction. Yesterday, markets were freaked out. Today, maybe not 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:35.760 someone not so much. Yeah. I think those numbers that 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.960 we got about employment continuing employment claims actually throwing some 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.399 throwing some water on that idea. Let's get right into 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.680 it with Peter Koy, economics editor at Bloomberg business Week. 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:46.640 He joins us on the phone from New Jersey. So, Peter, 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:52.480 what's real what's transitory? Yeah, this is a debate, and 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.960 we tried to go right down the middle on this 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.440 one and give both sides and will let people judge 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:01.199 for themselves. But it's the Fed, of course, is on 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.360 the transitory side of the argument. And uh, Steve Matthews, 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.440 my Bloomberg colleague, is a good story about that today. 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.760 In six reasons that the Fed is um still fairly calm, 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:13.920 I would say the number one reason the Fed is 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.600 calm is that it looks at expectations of inflation, which 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.800 have been anchored for up until really just about now. 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:26.320 The Fed was worried that people would expect too low inflation. 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.280 That's why it's constantly laboring to get inflation higher. Now 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.359 that it's finally succeeding, instead of being patted on the back, 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.879 it's getting criticized for letting inflation get out of control. 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:38.800 So you can imagine be a little frustrating j polo 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:44.920 these days. Well wait, so because we're expecting more and 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.120 you know, help me out here, I expect you, Peter Coy, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.399 to set it straight and make some sense out of it. 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.240 So right, I mean some things are transitory. You and 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.720 I have talked a million times about folks were bouncing 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.600 back from the economy being shut down a year ago, 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.080 and so right, like some of this is normal, when 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.639 does it become abnormal? Help us make sense of the 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:10.880 data points that we're seeing there? There are some there's 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.919 some inflation that's caused by just pent up demand pouring 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.080 onto the market. So uh Richard Clara To, the Vice 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.720 chair of the Fed, made the point yesterday this is 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:27.040 one data point to April uh CPI number, and that 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:31.520 you you're gonna expect volatility in the important data series 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:33.960 at times like this, when the economy is recovering from 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.320 a major, major dislocation. And just because the price goes 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.160 up in one month doesn't mean it's going to keep 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.720 going up. After that, it could either stabilize as this 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:45.840 new higher level, or it could go back down, which 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:50.359 means it's subtracting from the CPI in future months. And 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:55.000 I guess um, I tend to lean against the new 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.639 conventional wisdom, which seems to me that inflation is really 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:03.119 totally fearsome and scary as heck uh, lean more in 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.920 the direction of saying, come on, calm down a little bit, 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:07.600 this is not such a dissaster. And I see that's 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:10.280 the way the markets are reacting today, right, Hey, folks, 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.120 I've seen a few cycles before. Um No, But Peter, 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.280 what's interesting is though here you have a day McDonald's 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.440 boosting average US wages to over thirteen an hour. They're 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.960 hiring ten thousand workers to Potle also raised its average 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:27.040 hourly waged to fifteen dollars an hour. Amazon hiring and 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.320 they're also paying more workers wage. Inflation is something we 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.479 watch very closely, and we've had folks on air our 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:36.439 own I think Carl Rickadonna, maybe Mike McKee saying that 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:41.000