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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.

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Speaker 2: Lin McTaggart, back with us as author of a number

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Speaker 2: of books and as the architect of the Intention experiment,

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Speaker 2: having conducted them for many years with scientists and groups

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Speaker 2: small and large, orchestrating group intention to heal people's lives

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Speaker 2: and make things better. Lenn always a pleasure, welcome back.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much, George, It's great to be here with you.

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Speaker 2: Happy New Year, and to you, may.

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Speaker 3: It be filled with joy and abundance.

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Speaker 2: Likewise, have you been.

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Speaker 3: I've been just great, very busy working on a new book.

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Speaker 3: Can't talk about that yet, but it's going to be

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Speaker 3: a new field like my book The Field, and I've

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Speaker 3: been working on the biggest Intention experiment I'm ever going

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Speaker 3: to do. So I've been very excited about that and

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Speaker 3: working with a number of scientists to really do some thing,

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Speaker 3: you know, to push the boundaries even more.

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Speaker 2: We'll get into this experiment. When's the new book.

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Speaker 3: Out February twenty six.

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Speaker 2: All right, so let's make sure we get you back

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Speaker 2: on to talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, great, Thank you, how did.

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Speaker 2: You get interested in this entire field.

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Speaker 3: I segued into this by accident. I am an investigative

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Speaker 3: reporter by background, and I, you know, spent the first

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Speaker 3: couple of years of my professional life trying to put

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Speaker 3: bad guys in jail, and you know, tried to do

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Speaker 3: a lot of that, broke some baby selling rings, and

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Speaker 3: was very involved in, you know, in very fact based,

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Speaker 3: deep investigations, and that never left me. So I wanted

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Speaker 3: to find out back in the nineties, why things like

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Speaker 3: spiritual healing work. How can you have a thought and

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Speaker 3: send it to somebody else make them better? And I

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Speaker 3: thought it would be a very simple task to find out.

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Speaker 3: So I started talking to a lot of scientists involved

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Speaker 3: in consciousness research, and you know, people at prestigious universities

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Speaker 3: like Princeton and so forth. And what I discovered, to

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Speaker 3: my amazement, was a completely new science in the making.

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Speaker 3: Each of these scientists had discovered something really important, like

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Speaker 3: people like Professor Robert John at Princeton, the Pair Research Center,

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Speaker 3: and loads of scientists like that who discovered things that

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Speaker 3: just didn't fit into our current paradigm. So I wrote

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Speaker 3: that up as a book, The Field, and after that

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Speaker 3: In my mind, there was unfinished business because a number

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Speaker 3: of the scientists had done studies showing that thoughts are

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Speaker 3: an actual something that can affect matter and with the

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Speaker 3: capacity to change people and things, and so the investigative

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Speaker 3: reporter in me wanted to find out, well, how far

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Speaker 3: can we take this, you know, and what are we

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Speaker 3: really talking about here? Are we talking about tiny subtle

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Speaker 3: shifts in quantum particles or are we talking about, you know,

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Speaker 3: cure and cancer with our thoughts. So that's when I

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Speaker 3: got the idea to do the Intention Experiment. I thought, well,

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of these scientists working in this area,

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Speaker 3: and I have a lot of readers out there because

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Speaker 3: the field was in I think thirty languages by then,

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Speaker 3: and so I thought, if I just put them together,

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Speaker 3: I'll have the biggest global lavatory in the world. And

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Speaker 3: that's when I started. In two thousand and seven, when

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Speaker 3: I launched my book The Intention Experiment, it was also

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Speaker 3: an invitation to take part in these experiments, which I

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Speaker 3: would hold periodically on my website or some other platform.

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Speaker 3: So it just started from there.

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Speaker 2: George, You've done at least forty intention experiments, now, haven't you?

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Speaker 3: Forty one? And yeah, soon to do forty two. And

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Speaker 3: those are the actual intention experiments where we've measured the results.

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Speaker 3: We've also done others where they were just good things

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Speaker 3: to do, but we weren't measuring what was going on,

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Speaker 3: like with Gaza in Israel not long ago.

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Speaker 2: How did you key in on the scientists you selected

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Speaker 2: to work with you?

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Speaker 3: Well, I started out thinking about First of all, I

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Speaker 3: had to get somebody who was willing to do what

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Speaker 3: sounded like a really weird thing, you know, to get

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Speaker 3: involved in. So I started thinking about scientists who weren't

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Speaker 3: afraid of pursuing what sounded like an impossible thing. So

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Speaker 3: I started thinking about people like doctor Gary Schwartz, the

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Speaker 3: noted psychologist and teacher of medicine at University of Arizona. Now.

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Speaker 3: Gary has a very classic background. He studied at Harvard

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Speaker 3: and Yale. He taught both places. Came to Arizona because

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Speaker 3: he loved he loved the area. But Gary is up

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Speaker 3: for any kind of study as long as it can

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Speaker 3: be scientifically measured. He is a true explorer, you know.

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Speaker 3: He he doesn't mind getting into all kinds of things,

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Speaker 3: including things like afterlife experiments. So I thought he would

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Speaker 3: be a really good person to start because we had

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Speaker 3: no idea what we was doing. We were doing, and

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Speaker 3: he was also somebody who would I could count on

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Speaker 3: to really measure this properly. And he had all kinds

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Speaker 3: of equipment. He had a laboratory for advance is in

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Speaker 3: consciousness and health, so we had a lot of equipment

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Speaker 3: at his disposal. So when I approached him, I thought

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Speaker 3: he was going to say no. I thought he was

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Speaker 3: going to say you're crazy. But he loved the idea

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Speaker 3: and so we you know, we stepped out into the

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Speaker 3: dark with that first experiment.

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Speaker 2: You may have been the one to get him into

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Speaker 2: all of this.

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Speaker 3: I probably pushed him to do some other things. But Gary,

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Speaker 3: by that time, I think, was also doing or in

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Speaker 3: the process of doing afterlife experiments, so he had pushed

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Speaker 3: his own boundaries. But we certainly pushed each others as

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Speaker 3: we as we went along.

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Speaker 2: Lin, When you started seeing results of the intention experiments,

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Speaker 2: were you in awe?

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Speaker 3: I didn't believe it was going to work, George. Honestly,

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Speaker 3: I didn't believe it was going to work. I had

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Speaker 3: convinced my publishers to publish this book which was inviting

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Speaker 3: people to do this, and I was very far from

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Speaker 3: certain we were going to get any results. So and

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Speaker 3: I wanted to do something big and splashy. So I

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Speaker 3: remember telling Gary, you know, let's do something BIG's you know,

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Speaker 3: let's cure cancer. And he'd say, let's start with a leaf, Lynn,

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Speaker 3: and when we've really learned something, we'll move on to seeds.

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Speaker 3: And what he was basically saying is, let's take baby steps,

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Speaker 3: because you've never tried this before. People haven't tried this

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Speaker 3: before getting loads of people spread out around the world

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Speaker 3: to send an intention at the same time, which is

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Speaker 3: what we were doing to some selected target. So we

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Speaker 3: don't know what we're doing. We have to do it

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Speaker 3: one baby step at a time. We didn't know, for instance,

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Speaker 3: how long we should do it, do we need a

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Speaker 3: live target, all of those things. So he kept quoting

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Speaker 3: me that line from the movie Contact when Jodie Foster

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Speaker 3: wants to get out there and contact aliens and her

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Speaker 3: dad always says to her small moves, Ellie's small moves.

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Speaker 3: And that's what he kept saying to me. We had

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Speaker 3: to take really small moves. So we truly did start

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Speaker 3: with a leaf to see if we could change the

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Speaker 3: light emissions of the leaf, and we were pretty you know,

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Speaker 3: uncertain what we should do. So we decided to have

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Speaker 3: two live leaves, leafs with a live feed, and I

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Speaker 3: would do it in front of an audience of about

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Speaker 3: seven or eight hundred we had at a conference of

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Speaker 3: ours in London. And so when we ran this, we

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Speaker 3: chose one of the leaves. The other one was going

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Speaker 3: to be the control. And I didn't know how long

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Speaker 3: we should do this for, and so Gary and I

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Speaker 3: were kicking it around and we said, well, let's do

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Speaker 3: it for ten minutes. Because if somebody has never meditated before,

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Speaker 3: that's about the limit of attention span they probably have.

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Speaker 3: So we just had everyone hold the same thought for

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Speaker 3: the same leaf that we were going to make it

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Speaker 3: glow more, you know, have more light emissions. So we

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Speaker 3: just gave them glow instructions, you know, make this leaf

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Speaker 3: glow more. And then afterward Gary put it through special

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Speaker 3: equipment that could measure every bit of light emissions photon

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Speaker 3: by photon and count them up. Plus he had he

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Speaker 3: had you know, photographs of it. He actually had images

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Speaker 3: of it, and it was so shocking afterward, the two

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Speaker 3: of them were so different. The one that had the

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Speaker 3: glow instructions was so much brighter with sending out so

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Speaker 3: much more light than the other one. The other one

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Speaker 3: almost looked like it was you know, it had a

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Speaker 3: neglect effect that Gary kept saying, it looks, you know,

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Speaker 3: darker than usual. So it was an esoteric type of experiment,

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Speaker 3: you know, it didn't have any application to real life,

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Speaker 3: but it showed us we were onto something.

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Speaker 2: Was it telekinesis, Was it psychokinesis? What was it?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing it was, you know, it was

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Speaker 3: the power of our thoughts, and yes, that is psychokinesis,

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Speaker 3: the idea of you know, mind over matter. Matter can

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Speaker 3: be changed by mind, and it's been called lots of things.

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Speaker 3: We use the term intention because it's nice and neutral,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, it's about our mind and our thoughts being

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Speaker 3: able to be trespassed, going out into the world and

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Speaker 3: affect other things. And this is what we wanted to

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Speaker 3: demonstrate and prove. And it's why I wanted to use

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Speaker 3: lots of different scientists so I couldn't be too accused

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Speaker 3: of bias, and lots of scientists using different types of

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Speaker 3: equipment so we could look at it from different angles.

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Speaker 2: Of the forty one Intention experiments. Then that you've done

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Speaker 2: to date, Has anything ever gone wrong?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we had four that haven't worked. We've had

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Speaker 3: thirty seven of the forty one have shown measurable positive

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Speaker 3: mostly significant effects, and of the ones that haven't worked,

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Speaker 3: there were technical things that went wrong. So a few

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Speaker 3: of the initial ones, there were so many people coming

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Speaker 3: onto my web site. I think the first two ones

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Speaker 3: that the website crashed. You know, we didn't have enough

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Speaker 3: server power. So I remember with one of the early

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Speaker 3: ones we had to hire the server power. This is

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Speaker 3: way back when before you had things so simply on

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Speaker 3: the Internet, where you know, there's a lot of server

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Speaker 3: power and you don't have to worry about this. But

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Speaker 3: way back then we had to hire the server power

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Speaker 3: for I think it was the American equivalent of the

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Speaker 3: X factor, where you know, we had this super I

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Speaker 3: think it was pop Idol or something way back then

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and seven, but we had to have

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Speaker 3: super server power just to take care of all of

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Speaker 3: the thousands of people coming on all at the same time,

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Speaker 3: which can easily crash a website if you don't have

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Speaker 3: enough server power. So that went wrong, and we also

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Speaker 3: had one time a lab assistant put some water. We

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Speaker 3: had sent intention to So we had done a really

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Speaker 3: interesting experiment where we sent intention to water to make

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Speaker 3: certain seeds grow faster. And they had the jars of

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Speaker 3: water and they were the lab assistant put them erroneously.

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Speaker 3: He made a mistake and he put them right near

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Speaker 3: on an electromagnetic field, and so that seemed to mess

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Speaker 3: it up. And I think there were one or two

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Speaker 3: things like that. But in the main the scientists were

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Speaker 3: really brilliant and people could get on and the things worked.

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Speaker 3: But we had to use all kinds of help in

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Speaker 3: the beginning, with webmasters, etc. To make sure that everything

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Speaker 3: was working technically.

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Speaker 2: Remember the work of the late doctor Imoto with his

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Speaker 2: water experiments. For people who may not know who he was.

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Speaker 2: What he did is he played music next to water

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Speaker 2: and froze it and then looked under her microscope. And

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Speaker 2: he played two different types of music, one what we

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Speaker 2: would call easy listening. The other would be called harsh music.

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Speaker 2: And the music that was harsh, he would look under

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Speaker 2: the microscope in the crystal of the water would be discombobulated.

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Speaker 2: On the music that was pleasant, it would be gorgeous.

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Speaker 2: That's basically what you're talking about, Lenn, isn't.

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Speaker 3: It absolutely, And interestingly enough, doctor Emoto he's passed now,

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Speaker 3: but he invited me back in twenty ten to do

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Speaker 3: an experiment on Lake Biwa, which is like the mother

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Speaker 3: lake of Japan. It has it supplies a lot of

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Speaker 3: the country with water, but it's very, very polluted. So

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Speaker 3: he wanted to do a special ceremony there. You know,

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Speaker 3: too considered himself a messenger of water who talked about

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Speaker 3: water and the importance of water, and as you said,

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Speaker 3: did so many experiments showing that our thoughts can affect water.

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Speaker 3: And that's a really important idea because we're about I

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Speaker 3: guess about seventy percent water. Plants are about eighty percent

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Speaker 3: to ninety percent water. So just think about it. If

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Speaker 3: we are sending negative thoughts out to people, we are

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Speaker 3: potentially affecting the very water that they're made of. So

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Speaker 3: with this experiment, he wanted to see if we could

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Speaker 3: purify water. So we flew to Japan. We had a

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Speaker 3: special situation where we took we actually got out on

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Speaker 3: the rocks and took samples of water. And this time

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Speaker 3: I was working with doctor Constantine Karotkov, who is the

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Speaker 3: famous Russian physicist who has developed equipment that can measure

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Speaker 3: changes in water and measure all kinds of things the

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Speaker 3: state of people's health through complicated equipment that that essentially

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Speaker 3: is hugely accurate in predicting, for instance, the health of

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Speaker 3: Olympic athletes and so forth. So he was there too.

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Speaker 3: We took various samples of water. We had one that

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Speaker 3: was control and one that would be the one we

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Speaker 3: sent Intention to. And so I had an audience there

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Speaker 3: again of about eight hundred nine hundred, and we also

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Speaker 3: had hooked it up to my audience around the globe,

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Speaker 3: so they could also send Intention to this one little

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Speaker 3: jar of water, and we tried to move it one

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Speaker 3: pH more at least to alkalinity, which means it's more

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Speaker 3: or it's pure. You know, water should be alkaline, that's

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Speaker 3: the purest kind of water. So we did. He measured

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Speaker 3: it immediately afterward, compared it to the control, and we

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Speaker 3: did it. So it was a really exciting experiment because

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Speaker 3: it was out of the laboratory and into real life.

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Speaker 2: Grabbing the line from Spock is the one as important

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Speaker 2: as the many in these intention experiments.

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Speaker 3: You mean the one person or experiment itself.

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Speaker 2: Can you have one person as powerful as a thousand?

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Speaker 3: No, I think a group amplifies the effect, and I've

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Speaker 3: seen that both with the big intention experiments George and

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Speaker 3: with the power of eight groups when I shrunk this

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Speaker 3: down for people to do in little groups of eight

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Speaker 3: or more, you need a group. Something about a group

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Speaker 3: amplifies the effect. But more isn't necessarily better. And we

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Speaker 3: know that because we did one big experiment where we

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Speaker 3: were trying to make seeds grow faster. And we ran

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Speaker 3: this experiment six different times, and we had three controls

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Speaker 3: and one set of target seeds. The scientists never knew

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Speaker 3: which seeds we were sending attention to, but we had

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Speaker 3: different sized audiences. So sometimes there were seven hundred, sometimes

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Speaker 3: it was thousands from my followers around the globe. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: it was just one hundred. So we ran it, as

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Speaker 3: I say, in total, six times, and every single time

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Speaker 3: the target seeds grew significantly higher than all of the controls.

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