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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal.

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Speaker 2: Hell for me, I'm a man, I'm.

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Speaker 1: For I've heard so many players say, well, I want

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Speaker 1: to be happy. You want to be happy for Dake,

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Speaker 1: Edith Steak, is that woo woo? And Dan and Tie? Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the solid verbal. I am doing this

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Speaker 1: introduction me Dan, not Tye, Tye because Tie is busy

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Speaker 1: at the moment dealing with some family stuff. Thankfully, everybody's okay,

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Speaker 1: but just you know, Tie's a human, he has to

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Speaker 1: deal with some stuff and look after some stuff. So

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Speaker 1: I am joined today by a list Hall of Fame

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Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore solid verbal guest from the Athletics, Slash, New

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Speaker 1: York Times, Slash, Fox Sports, Slash, UH, The Audible Podcast

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Speaker 1: with Stu Mandel, Bruce Feldman. How you doing, I'm doing good.

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping, UH, I'm hoping everything's good on Tie's end,

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Speaker 3: it is, it is, Yeah, and so it's awesome to

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Speaker 3: deal with you in the UH. I feel like a

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Speaker 3: special connection now that I've actually had the food you serve.

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Speaker 2: M Yes, I appreciate that yeah, much better than I

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Speaker 2: thought it was going to be.

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Speaker 1: You went into that dinner with mediocre expectations.

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Speaker 3: I went into the thinking would be good, but like,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not just you know, blowing smoke at you,

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Speaker 3: but like the best crew tons I've ever had in

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Speaker 3: my life?

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Speaker 2: Are you the best piece I've ever had in my life?

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Speaker 3: Just like I could not get over how a skinny

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Speaker 3: guy can make such good food.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that. It's it's come a long ways. It's

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Speaker 1: a good meal, and I'm glad you enjoyed it. Here's

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Speaker 1: my question for you. Is it slow off season wise?

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Speaker 1: Is it different in that you're both covering games and

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Speaker 1: covering you know, news items and coaching hires, just because

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Speaker 1: you've been in the mix with so many big coaching

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Speaker 1: hires and changes behind the scenes, and this year it

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Speaker 1: was like Purdue North Carolina UCF, It wasn't didn't feel

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Speaker 1: as major.

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Speaker 2: Those were the big Those are the bigger ones.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but everything else feels chaotic and exploding around it,

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Speaker 1: just not the hires, if that makes sense right.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's an interesting shift. The beat is

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Speaker 3: certainly not like the NFL. And what I mean by

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Speaker 3: that is there's there's some transactional news, but ultimately it's

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Speaker 3: like and I'm not to diminish it, but you know,

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Speaker 3: at least from the fox side of my job, like

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Speaker 3: eighty percent of that stuff is not rising up to

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Speaker 3: the level that my bosses are going to care that

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Speaker 3: much about, you know, and whereas and even at the

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Speaker 3: Athletic now, I think there's times where I'll say, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm hearing such and such, and there are stories that

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Speaker 3: there are stories that they wouldn't want stories on. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I could tweet out the news of those things, but

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Speaker 3: I don't think that there are things that would end up, Hey,

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Speaker 3: we're going to go to the trouble to have an

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Speaker 3: editor work this story up and posted.

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Speaker 2: They just that's not I think part of it. Now.

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Speaker 3: There's certain things like I we're taking this Monday morning

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Speaker 3: and yesterday early afternoon, I'm about to take my son

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Speaker 3: to his basketball game, and I got a tip about

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Speaker 3: Notre Dame who they were targeting to their defensive coordinator,

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Speaker 3: Chris ash and so I started making calls and I

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Speaker 3: because that's it's Notre Dame, it's it's obviously a big job,

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Speaker 3: it's a recognizable name. And so reached out to my

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Speaker 3: colleague on the Notre name be for the Athletic. Pete

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Speaker 3: Sampster does a terrific job, and he was able to

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Speaker 3: go further on that and then I'm like literally on

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Speaker 3: the bleachers of the game, and he he was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I said, hey, whatever you can. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you feel like where it's buttoned up or where

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Speaker 3: you know, beyond that, then just let me know. I'll

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Speaker 3: just retweet whatever you tweeted out kind of thing. But

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Speaker 3: so you're trying to have, as you know, as as

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Speaker 3: a father with two kids, young kids, you're trying to

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Speaker 3: have like some sense of a real work life balance,

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Speaker 3: especially now because to be honest, there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: stuff down the rabbit hole of you know, we were

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Speaker 3: a bunch of us were at the National title game

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Speaker 3: in Atlanta last week, and you know, I have really

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Speaker 3: good colleagues at the Athletic Ralph Russeau has been a

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Speaker 3: tremendous addition for us, and he's done a really good

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Speaker 3: job covering the sport. But we had Ralph, we had

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Speaker 3: Chris Finy, Like, we don't need to have four people

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Speaker 3: at a meeting where we know going in there's probably

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Speaker 3: very little chance anything is going to happen about like

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Speaker 3: the CFP getting tweaked this year as opposed to next year.

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Speaker 3: So I think what you have to do for your

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Speaker 3: own sanity sake is pick your spots. I mean, if

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Speaker 3: you chase every cat and every you know, rabbit that's

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Speaker 3: out there and every squirrel, I think you're just going

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Speaker 3: to be like a zombie. And some of the stuff

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Speaker 3: that I would pursue before, I probably won't now, just

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Speaker 3: because my kids are ten years old, and I want

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Speaker 3: to know, I don't want to have a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of regrets about that.

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Speaker 3: But the stuff I mean to get to not to

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Speaker 3: get too long run, but the stuff that me is

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Speaker 3: the most important. Things I can do as to serve

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Speaker 3: the reader or the consumer of the audiences that I

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Speaker 3: work for is to talk to coaches and know what's

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Speaker 3: going on, why things have happened in different things for

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Speaker 3: you know, for me, the best story I could do

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Speaker 3: for the athletic around the National Title game was to

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Speaker 3: try to get the story of Ryan Day's family what

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Speaker 3: the last you know, fifty days had been like from

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Speaker 3: the Michigan game to the National Title game. That was

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Speaker 3: what I was really trying to get at, and I

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Speaker 3: was happy with, you know, thankful that they opened up

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Speaker 3: to me the way, you know, Ryan Day's wife and

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Speaker 3: Ryan DA's son r J. Did, But like I feel like,

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Speaker 3: you just have to pick your spots and.

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Speaker 2: You have to know what you know what best serves

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Speaker 2: the audience.

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Speaker 1: Let's go for there, because that was obviously a story

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Speaker 1: that got a lot of conversation going about what it's

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Speaker 1: like to be Ryan Day, what it has been like

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Speaker 1: to be Ryan Day, not just in the past fifteen days,

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Speaker 1: but overall in his time in Columbus. Obviously the unique

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Speaker 1: circumstance of both losing to Michigan for four years in

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Speaker 1: a row and winning the national championship and having his

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Speaker 1: job and his life come under scrutiny. Even more so,

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Speaker 1: you followed coaches, You've covered coaches for a long time

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Speaker 1: in various fish bowls around the country. Did the depths

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Speaker 1: of what they went through surprise you? Was it just

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Speaker 1: a more pronounced version of what other coaches and families

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Speaker 1: have gone through? To what degree was that unique? That

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Speaker 1: sort of experience?

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Speaker 2: I thought this was unique.

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Speaker 3: You know, going back certain parts of it, I can

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Speaker 3: remember Bill Curry, you know, just such a decent man

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Speaker 3: who had been the Alabama coach around nineteen ninety, was

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Speaker 3: a really good college coach. Then you know, he's a

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Speaker 3: Georgia tech guy I played had seen everything played for,

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Speaker 3: you know, Vince Lombardi and the NFL the heyday, and

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Speaker 3: so he told me some stories about, you know, getting

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Speaker 3: a brick thrown through his window because they couldn't beat Auburn.

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Speaker 3: They couldn't beat Auburn, and it was crazy. But that

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Speaker 3: was a different time in terms of like people are

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Speaker 3: way more connected and way more exposed in terms of

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Speaker 3: social media. It's not hard to get somebody's cell phone.

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Speaker 3: We know that happened with Nina Deay, Ryan's wife. It's

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Speaker 3: not hard to know where people live. And I think

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Speaker 3: because we've seen so much crazy stuff happen in our society,

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Speaker 3: I could see like when she told me about it,

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Speaker 3: and I know from you know, being having some people

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Speaker 3: really close to them, I knew some of the stuff

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Speaker 3: they were dealing with.

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Speaker 2: It escalated a lot.

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Speaker 3: It seems like after the loss, this particular loss to Michigan,

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Speaker 3: it was the fourth one in the row. This was

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Speaker 3: not a great Sighan team by any stretch. It happened

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Speaker 3: at home, and so, you know, knowing some of that

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Speaker 3: going in, I think there's like Kirk Krbstreet, you know,

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Speaker 3: who knows you know, he's the voice of the sport,

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Speaker 3: right he's been learning it for thirty thirty plus years

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Speaker 3: and has amazing access. And he's also from you remember,

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Speaker 3: like Kirk moved from Columbus where he was you know,

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Speaker 3: his dad coached at Ohio State. Kirk played there, you

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Speaker 3: know obviously you know the whole story. But then they

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Speaker 3: moved to Nashville, and I remember Kirk has been pretty

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Speaker 3: outspoken about like certain things, and he was in the

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Speaker 3: you know, Ohio State, I think blew out Tennessee. And

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Speaker 3: then he's, you know, late in the game, he's starting

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Speaker 3: to kind of talk about some of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 3: When I after they win the national like right after

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Speaker 3: the one of the first people I see on the

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Speaker 3: field is a guy named Stanley Spiro. And Stanley is

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Speaker 3: Ryan Day's father in law, and he's known Ryan since

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Speaker 3: he was like nine. But he's also like a legendary

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Speaker 3: Division two basketball coach. He was at a school in

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Speaker 3: New Hampshire and he was up for the Basketball Hall

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Speaker 3: of Fame a year ago. So like he's had over

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Speaker 3: six hundred wins. That's the like Ryan Day's wife grew

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Speaker 3: up in that household of the college basketball coach where

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Speaker 3: they were great, but that stuff, like as he was

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Speaker 3: telling me, was like, you know, the challenges that becoming

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Speaker 3: a coach's family often is like the mom raises everything,

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Speaker 3: the mom runs does all of it because the dad

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Speaker 3: is either on the road recruiting or doing especially it's

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Speaker 3: different to be a college football coach. And it probably

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Speaker 3: was a Division two basketball coach in that part of

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Speaker 3: the country, sure, but this is times a thousand because

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Speaker 3: now you got a hated rival. And you know, look,

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Speaker 3: I work with Urban Meyer on the Big Noon Show.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's almost every week he'll reference seven

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Speaker 3: and zero.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like it is such.

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Speaker 3: A big part of Ohio State's identity tied to Michigan

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Speaker 3: that that got ramped up in a way. I know

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Speaker 3: it was bad for John Cooper, you know where twenty

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Speaker 3: five years ago, but it was way worse now, right,

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Speaker 3: And so, I mean Ryan Day's record now he's seventy

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Speaker 3: and ten. There's like one coach in major foot college

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Speaker 3: football history who has a better winning perception persons as

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Speaker 3: new Rockney. I mean Larry caraz is a lower divisions

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Speaker 3: coach who hadn't even you know, legend too, but like

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Speaker 3: just in terms of the major college football right now.

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Speaker 3: That's insane, and there were a lot of people thinking

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Speaker 3: he should be fired if he doesn't win the playoffs.

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Speaker 2: Right now, from my perspective.

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Speaker 3: Knowing him, knowing his family and knowing that, you know,

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Speaker 3: mental health has been a big important issue to him

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Speaker 3: because his father died by suicide when he was like

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Speaker 3: eight or nine years old, and so they've been very

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Speaker 3: vocal and very proactive.

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Speaker 2: On that issue.

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Speaker 3: I'm sitting there after the Notre Dame, after I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: after the Michigan game, thinking I'm still in Columbus, like,

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Speaker 3: if they don't win the win the national title, and

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Speaker 3: they're talented enough to certainly do it, but if they don't,

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Speaker 3: I wonder if he's going to say, you know, if

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Speaker 3: this isn't worth it for my family and me. I

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Speaker 3: was going to say, you know, and I wrote something

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Speaker 3: about that because just knowing how hard it was on them,

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Speaker 3: Like RJ.

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Speaker 2: His son told me, school was really rough.

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Speaker 3: He had grown men basically you know, coming after him.

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Speaker 3: They hired their own, you know, security firm round the clock.

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Speaker 3: His grandfather, the grandfather stayed with them an extra ten days.

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Speaker 2: The grandfather, by the way, has been battling cancer.

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Speaker 3: You know, he put off a procedure for prostate just

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Speaker 3: so he could make sure he would be at the

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Speaker 3: national title game.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's just it's it's.

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Speaker 3: A pretty remarkable story behind the scenes of what's been

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Speaker 3: going on. But to answer your question, this was way

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Speaker 3: different than anything I've ever heard.

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Speaker 1: And it's already that job. A number of these jobs

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Speaker 1: are already all in encompassing, right that you're recruiting all

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Speaker 1: year long. You're monitoring portal stuff, you are dealing with

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Speaker 1: your own roster, you're figuring out coaches coming in and out,

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Speaker 1: you're expanding your whatever, your recruiting department. There's a million

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Speaker 1: different things that keep these guys up at nights. So

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Speaker 1: this is a unique situation for Ryan Day in terms

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Speaker 1: of the blowback that he and his family received after

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Speaker 1: losing to Michigan. There's almost no winning if you don't

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Speaker 1: win a national championship every year. How long does a

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Speaker 1: human have the stomach to coach at Ohio State? If

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Speaker 1: that is the reality, that is a great question. You know,

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Speaker 1: like I can never say if I was Ryan Day.

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Speaker 1: I just can't get my head to go there.

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Speaker 3: But you know, you have a guy who now he

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Speaker 3: needs coach, unlike you know, his predecessor, Urban Meyer, unlike

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Speaker 3: Lou Holtz, unlike Steus Sprayer, Like he'd been in the NFL,

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Speaker 3: Like he knows what that world is like, right and

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Speaker 3: better or worse. I think as a as a national

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Speaker 3: CHAMPI lemanship winning coach. And he's a good offensive coach.

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Speaker 3: Remember like he was running it until e Iron Chip

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Speaker 3: to take over. But I think and they were really

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Speaker 3: good on offense. I think, you know, he's different than

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying he's Harbaugh because Harbaugh was with the

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Speaker 3: Niners and took a mediocre team and got him to

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Speaker 3: the super Bowl, like pretty fast. Right, Say what you

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Speaker 3: want about that guy. That guy knows what he's doing

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Speaker 3: as a coach. But for I think the NFL teams

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Speaker 3: are gonna be really skittish on taking just a college guy.

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Speaker 3: But this is not like this is a guy now

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Speaker 3: is woner national title. This is a guy who's coached

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Speaker 3: in the NFL. This is a guy who has a

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Speaker 3: good understanding of offense. I think he has a really

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Speaker 3: good we saw this. He has a great connection with

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Speaker 3: his players. I mean a lot of guys stayed because

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Speaker 3: they wanted to play there, play together and play for him.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how long you can sustain that, you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how long you want Like and I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying he's like, Okay, I won my national title.

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Speaker 3: I've proven it to myself. You know, this is a

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Speaker 3: special team. Like right now, it's not like there's you know,

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Speaker 3: we're going into a different NFL hiring cycle. We obviously

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Speaker 3: know that the Cowboys just made their hire and and

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Speaker 3: there's you know, most of the I think the Saints

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Speaker 3: is like, as we're taking us the only thing that's opened, right, So,

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Speaker 3: but I don't know how long If you're him, do

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Speaker 3: you want to do you want to do this? And

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Speaker 3: and what's the next thing though? Is it it's if

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Speaker 3: you're going to be a head coach, does it go

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Speaker 3: to the NFL? I mean, I would think it is,

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Speaker 3: because it's like it'd be hard to get a better job.

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Speaker 3: If you're a college coach in Ohio State, you're the

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Speaker 3: most resource program basically there. You recruit like you're an

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Speaker 3: SEC school, but you're not in the SEC.

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Speaker 2: You know, and you have.

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Speaker 3: You know, you do have a lot of support, and

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Speaker 3: I think that will be an interesting thing.

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Speaker 2: How long?

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Speaker 3: How long does he want to stay in this situation.

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Speaker 1: What do you hear around the country, especially at those

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Speaker 1: higher profile places, that like, all of these guys are

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Speaker 1: burning the candle both ends. Dan Lanning, Steve Sarkisian, whoever,

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Speaker 1: Billy Napier or anywhere in the country. The sport broke

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Speaker 1: Nick Saban, who is unbreakable. The sport broke him because

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Speaker 1: of the you know, the challenges of the portal and

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Speaker 1: nil and he had just reached a breaking point. What

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Speaker 1: do you hear about, like the sustainability of being a

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Speaker 1: major college football coach. The money's nice, That's why the

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Speaker 1: money's there, But like, can you if you're and here's

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Speaker 1: an example, like if you're Dan Lanning, can you spend

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Speaker 1: the next fifteen years of your life doing this and

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Speaker 1: maintain sanity?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think you can spend the

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Speaker 3: next five And I think they have to really think

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Speaker 3: in terms of that window. Like I've gotten close to

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Speaker 3: Chris Peterson. He's a brilliant guy. You know, work with

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Speaker 3: him at Fox. He has become a huge resource for

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Speaker 3: coaches and coaches some of them who aren't that old,

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Speaker 3: who are like they're they're like boiling inside about it,

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Speaker 3: not just coaches in the in college, also in the NFL.

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Speaker 3: I think burnout is a real thing, and I don't

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Speaker 3: I think the guys who sit there and go, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna do this for twenty years are kidding themselves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, maybe five years.

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Speaker 3: Dan Lanning is a good is a good one to

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Speaker 3: bring up because Dan Lning's still very young, right, He's like,

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Speaker 3: I feel like he's in his sweet spot right now,

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Speaker 3: you know, does that change five or six years from now?

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Speaker 3: Like I feel like this coaching is going to become

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Speaker 3: like dog years now, like like the North Carolina folks

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Speaker 3: and Bill Belichick can talk about like yeah, it's going

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Speaker 3: to be like an NFL model and everything. It's like

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Speaker 3: you can say that now because you've been on the

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Speaker 3: job for like three weeks, right, But like enough people

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Speaker 3: I know who are actually been doing a job for

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Speaker 3: a while, Like, yeah, he's going it's going to drive

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Speaker 3: him what mad when.

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Speaker 1: He Wait until he's in seven high schools in New

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Speaker 1: Jersey in like a twenty hour period.

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Speaker 3: Wait till he's just you know, like hounded by some

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Speaker 3: players at who's turned into the agent? Right, And that

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Speaker 3: happens a lot, And it's just like you know, you're

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Speaker 3: not dealing with CIA and and.

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Speaker 2: These agents all the time.

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Speaker 3: You're dealing with like guys who popped up out of

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Speaker 3: nowhere who are now you know, trying to rep the

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Speaker 3: players and everything else.

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Speaker 2: And that can be exhausting. No matter what.

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Speaker 3: You can have a personnel department all you want. I

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Speaker 3: think like Nick Saban had all those things, and I

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Speaker 3: think dealing with you know, I don't want to call

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Speaker 3: it necessarily entitlement, which the change to how the athlete

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Speaker 3: is wired now in this day and age, I think

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Speaker 3: that became way way different for him. And so he

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Speaker 3: you know, he bailed out to go into TV. Now,

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Speaker 3: look he's in his early seventies. Yeah, you know, Dan

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Speaker 3: Lanning is not. John Sumral is not. You know, Lane

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Speaker 3: Kiffen is not. I think it's different when you're that age.

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Speaker 3: Once you I think, get over fifty five, I think

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Speaker 3: things start to get get a lot heavier, right, And

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't know what that range is because look,

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Speaker 3: there's plenty of coaches. Kurt Signetti is whatever he is,

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Speaker 3: sixty three, Lance Lightehold is around that. There's really good

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Speaker 3: coaches who are in their prime in their early mid

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Speaker 3: sixties and It's not to say that the places they're at,

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Speaker 3: you know, in Lisos two example, Kansas and Indiana, they're

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Speaker 3: both obviously great basketball schools. I don't think the level

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Speaker 3: the pressure to win is at the same level. Certainly

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Speaker 3: it is at Ohio State where it's like unforgiving, you know,

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Speaker 3: like that level.

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Speaker 2: You better you know where eleven and three is a

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Speaker 2: bad year, right, So I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think it's I think we're talking about five year

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Speaker 3: windows now. We're not talking about, oh yeah, this guy's

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Speaker 3: going to be one of the you know, one of

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Speaker 3: the all time grades twenty years from now.

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Speaker 1: One name we haven't mentioned, haven't brought up somebody who

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Speaker 1: is that same level of expectation. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: how much I saw this like around, but I had

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Speaker 1: John Talty and Armin Katayn's book I think it's called

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Speaker 1: The Price recently, and they mentioned Kirby Smart was positive

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Speaker 1: he was retiring three years ago, I think the summer

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Speaker 1: three summers ago three or four something like that, in

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Speaker 1: the midst of Georgia building up this monster. Does he

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Speaker 1: have five years left in him? I mean, running Georgia

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Speaker 1: seems like twenty four to seven nothing but stresses nothing

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Speaker 1: but again burning the candle at both ends. He's not old,

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Speaker 1: but he's definitely somebody who strikes me as somebody who

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Speaker 1: could be like, you know what, I was this close before.

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Speaker 1: I'm just fried. My kids aren't super old, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just opting for a you know, a part two of

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Speaker 1: my coaching life or my life in general.

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Speaker 3: I know, Dan, I go to the NFL Combine every

381
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Speaker 3: year and I run into so many coaches I know

382
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Speaker 3: who are former college coaches, and a lot of them

383
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Speaker 3: made the move actually, you know, like more than three

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Speaker 3: years ago.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking maybe they moved five years ago.

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Speaker 3: It was still kind of nutty in terms of the calendar,

387
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Speaker 3: but it wasn't like this where you have agents who

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Speaker 3: are you know, we're basically coming up to coaches like

389
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Speaker 3: seemingly like every couple of weeks to be like to

390
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Speaker 3: try to get a better deal or to try to

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Speaker 3: you know, get somebody.

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Speaker 2: Poached off their roster.

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Speaker 3: Right, those things are different, and there is no right now,

394
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Speaker 3: there is no off season for college coaches. You can say, oh, yeah,

395
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Speaker 3: we have a big person all department. It's not you know,

396
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Speaker 3: like the coaches are still involved in that and the

397
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Speaker 3: guys I know who went to the NFL. Very few

398
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Speaker 3: do I know look back and be like, yeah, I'd

399
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Speaker 3: want I want to be involved in that right now.

400
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Speaker 3: The circumstance may have dictated that they ended up bouncing

401
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Speaker 3: back because they were looking for a you know, a job.

402
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Speaker 3: But I think the money is good. The money can

403
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Speaker 3: be very good in college obviously.

404
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Speaker 2: I mean, look what you know.

405
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Speaker 3: Jim Knowles is getting over three million dollars year to

406
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Speaker 3: be a coordinator, and I think there's certainly a lot

407
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Speaker 3: of coordinators who are now making seven figures. But in

408
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Speaker 3: the NFL, and again their the NFL is like it's

409
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 3: hard to stay up there too, right because they have

410
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Speaker 3: guys get fired after one year. You can go from

411
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Speaker 3: hot to cold in a hurry, but the quality of

412
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Speaker 3: life is way different, I think for them, and that's

413
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Speaker 3: a much more attractive destination. I think for Kirby Smart,

414
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Speaker 3: you have a guy who won two national titles. Felt

415
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Speaker 3: like he should be close to, you know, in the

416
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Speaker 3: mid middle of it for a little bit. But I

417
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Speaker 3: would be surprised if he's there for ten more years.

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Speaker 3: It's just like just seems like it's so much he's

419
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Speaker 3: a grinder and it's so much of a grind, Like

420
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Speaker 3: when does he sit there and think, you know, like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I want to try to you know, maybe I'm better

422
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Speaker 3: served to be an NFL coach. I mean again, everything

423
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Speaker 3: I've heard is, you know, Athens is a great place,

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Speaker 3: you know, to raise a family, and he's got relatively

425
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Speaker 3: young family, as you said, So I don't know, you know.

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Speaker 2: That there's probably consideration to that.

427
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Speaker 3: If I moved to become pick the team, if I

428
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Speaker 3: moved to become the Green Bay Packers head coach or

429
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 3: the you know, or the Denver Broncos head coach, I'm

430
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Speaker 3: uprooting my family.

431
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Speaker 2: You know.

432
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Speaker 3: It's like that was a really successful high school coach

433
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Speaker 3: in Georgia. I'm sure they're very comfortable in that part

434
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Speaker 3: of the country. So there's only I think there's a

435
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 3: balance there too to that.

436
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,959
Speaker 1: How has this sort of a MorphOS blob of like

437
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: the money behind the scenes evolved in this new era.

438
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: I just wonder because we have not seen boosters programs

439
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: willing to pay huge buyouts recently. I think, aside from

440
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: Jimbo that like we've seen these deals and maybe these

441
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 1: types of deals with your forty fifty sixty seventy million

442
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 1: dollars guaranteed are going to dry up. But it seems

443
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 1: like we're seeing less coaches fired and maybe boosters are

444
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: saying like, I'd rather spend money on Dylan Gabriel Caleb

445
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: Downs then put it into like firing this coach and

446
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: we don't even trust you to hire a new guy.

447
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: Have the wins shifted behind the scenes in terms of

448
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: how money is viewed with coaches as it relates to

449
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: portal andile whatever.

450
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: That's a good question.

451
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 3: So in November Ish, myself and a colleague of mine

452
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 3: from Athletic Matt Baker, did a story about what the

453
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 3: hell went wrong at Florida State this year? Yeah, and

454
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: you know, so we had interviewed a ton of people

455
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 3: and it wasn't like a bash Mike norvel session or

456
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 3: anything like that. It was just like what.

457
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,360
Speaker 2: Actually happened there.

458
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: He's dramatic change.

459
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, and he did a terrific job. I think

460
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 3: he's a really really good coach. And he did a

461
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: terrific job getting them to thirteen and zero before they

462
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 3: got snunked from the playoff and then obviously it fell

463
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 3: apart this year. But our editor said you should try

464
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 3: to talk to an ad or two to see.

465
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: Like which is what you just said?

466
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,959
Speaker 3: You know, we just saw the year before Texas and

467
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,479
Speaker 3: M ate a massive amount of money to get rid

468
00:23:59,480 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: of Jimbo.

469
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: Sure.

470
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 3: And so I talked to an ad at a big,

471
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 3: big school and this person was like, I think Texas,

472
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 3: A and.

473
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: M is really a one off.

474
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: I think there's really only like one maybe, And he said,

475
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 3: I think Texas could probably eat this contract, like in

476
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 3: theory a bunch of us could. Yeah, we could eat

477
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 3: seventy million dollars. But it's like after you get through it,

478
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 3: you're like whoa, Like that's not something that you know,

479
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 3: Like it's too much damage on the back end.

480
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 2: It's almost like maybe this is the wrong analogy. It

481
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 2: probably is.

482
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: But when I worked at CBS Sports Network, we had

483
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 3: this is like fifteen twelve years ago, there was Hurricane

484
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 3: Sandy came through and just we had a big, fancy

485
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 3: news studio by Chelsea Piers and it just was like

486
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: literally under like twelve feet of water. And so I

487
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: remember I asked somebody there, I'm like, are they going

488
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: to rebuild it? And the person was like, they'll have

489
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 3: the insurance will pay for it.

490
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: But insurance, like you won't get the that insured again.

491
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 3: Like it's like you can get the money back, but

492
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 3: don't You're not going to be like you can't do

493
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: that again kind of thing.

494
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: You won't be able to get that insured or whatever

495
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 2: it was.

496
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: And like the point of this is like right now,

497
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 3: there's two examples of guys who I think are on

498
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 3: a hot seat going into twenty twenty five.

499
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 2: One is Brian Kelly.

500
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 3: You know, he's got a place where the last three

501
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,479
Speaker 3: head coaches won national titles. They you know, they had

502
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: a Heisman winner and two high level receivers and they

503
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 3: you know, they weren't great. They were good, but in

504
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: this year they were not, you know, they really struggled.

505
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 2: Now they've loaded up in the portal.

506
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 3: He's been vocal about them not you know, losing bidding

507
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 3: wars or whatever you want to say. They should have

508
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 3: a really loaded team. I mean, this is a team

509
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 3: that is released should make the playoff. It's a twelve

510
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 3: team playoff. Sure it's not like Alabama's there. Georgia's feel

511
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 3: clearly taken a little bit of a step back. So

512
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: you know, they don't I don't know how that fan

513
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 3: base and that that leadership, you know, handles it. An

514
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 3: example more close to what you know, what you go

515
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 3: up around is USC, like they made a splash hire

516
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 3: to get Lincoln Riley here, and the old regime pre

517
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: gen Cohen, you know, really stuck, you know, like got

518
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 3: a really lopsided contract.

519
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know if.

520
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 3: It's you know, if it would have cost ninety two

521
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 3: million dollars to try to part ways with Lincoln Riley

522
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 3: this winter, like the USC didn't have that. I don't know,

523
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 3: what does you know if they go six and six

524
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 3: or seven and five do money people who have not

525
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: been as far from the best I can tell, been

526
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: very engaged to all of a sudden they.

527
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: Go, Okay, this is enough.

528
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 3: We're going to get seventy eight or whatever it is

529
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: to move on from Lincoln Riley. I don't know, but

530
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: like that's a program which I mean, credit to them

531
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,239
Speaker 3: they were able to keep Dant and Lynn because I

532
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 3: think he's excellent. I think it was really important for them.

533
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 3: You know, if they had lost him too, that would

534
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 3: have been a gut punch. But I just don't feel

535
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 3: like like that's a program where you're like, at least LSU,

536
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 3: you know, you can sit there and go like I

537
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 3: think that, you know, I think Garrettnsmeyer's a legit Heisman

538
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 3: candidate going into this year. And they have added a

539
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 3: ton of speed in the portal and added some really

540
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: good players, Like Okay, I think they're you know, the

541
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: expectations should be there. If I'm watching USC right now,

542
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 3: I'm a USC fan, I'm like, I don't know, it's

543
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 3: hard for me to see better than eight and four

544
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: this year.

545
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's also right if you gave Jen Cohen

546
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: truth Saram and you said, do you want to coach?

547
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: That's half the cost of Lincoln Riley and take the

548
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: five million dollars and add it to the nil pool

549
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: every year, it actually seems like ads might have more

550
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: leverage than ever before. It seems like it's never been

551
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: more difficult to take on a huge, a new, huge job,

552
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: because the roster you're inheriting is going to be immediately

553
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: picked apart that all the kids are going to leave

554
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: for the portal and see what you're going to get,

555
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: and that in stacked major conferences. As you know, the

556
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: Big ten sec, Big twelve has expanded, It's never been

557
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: muddier at the top to come into a huge job,

558
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: and you know, within a year or two be incredible.

559
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: And so I wonder if this is like we talk

560
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: about like, oh, the players have so much more power now,

561
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: it almost seems like ads have perhaps more power than

562
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: they did in the in the modern era.

563
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 3: If you if you followed competence like right now exactly,

564
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, like they walked in in this

565
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: specific example of like you know, a very largely incompetent

566
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 3: regime that just wanted to make a splash and then

567
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: didn't and then just wasn't going to be around for

568
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 3: for when you threw the cinder block and the kiddie pool,

569
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: right you know after that.

570
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: So yeah, no, that's fair enough. I yeah, I just

571
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if the era of those types of buyouts

572
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: that like Jimmy Sexton had it good for a long time,

573
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: but it might be a little bit different now.

574
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: Don't kid yourself, gimmy seconds all you're gonna have a

575
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 3: kid this is around. It'll like there's enough tentacles of

576
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 3: things and everything where you know, I think that group

577
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: of high level agents are always going to still figure

578
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 3: a way to be to be very very engaged.

579
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: I think it's the parts where because also.

580
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: There's always going to be either desperation or incompetence in

581
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: the leadership part of these college programs.

582
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 2: And I'm talking usually about like administrative wise.

583
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 3: Whether it's a president who's clueless about college athletics or

584
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 3: an ad who's in over their skis.

585
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: Did anything surprise you outside of the coaching carousel this

586
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: off season? Anything in the way of the portal. Did

587
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: you hear any transfer stories that even for you who

588
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: has heard it that like, oh they tampered, how oh

589
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: they contacted this person? How was there anything you don't

590
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: have to name names, whatever you're comfortable with, but anything

591
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: where you're just like, man, this is a different world.

592
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: One of the things that surprised me was the number, Like,

593
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: and again, Chip Brown, who's been on the Texas beat

594
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 3: for a long time and does a really good job,

595
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: he he'd reported that.

596
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: Quen you were as a turned down.

597
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 3: I think eight million dollars, right, that number is staggering

598
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 3: from this standpoint.

599
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: A year of eight million dollars.

600
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's he's a good quarterback, but he's also

601
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: a quarterback who had been injured. Like, he's never had

602
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: a whole season when he was at Texas. It was

603
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: always a couple of games he missed, and I'm just

604
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: sitting there going like, would Texas Tech be the school

605
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: that would would make that kind of like big you know,

606
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: it just it's an it's it's an incredible amount of money.

607
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 2: If that's what it was.

608
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: Now, I think we have to keep And I say

609
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: this again, this is a reflection on Chip at all,

610
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: because I got a terrific reporter. But I think there's

611
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: what I've learned over the last few years is you

612
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: got to take these numbers with a grain of salt.

613
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 3: Like about a year ago, we did a story at

614
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 3: the Athletic where it was like it was like a

615
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: three part series, and I remember one of the best

616
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: resources I had for this was when I talked to

617
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: a quarterback who had been and who had transfer multiple times.

618
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: But also and it's a guy I knew, so I

619
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: had already had like a rapport with him for years,

620
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 3: and he had been at at you know, he'd been

621
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: at a combined training center where there was other like,

622
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 3: you know, ten other athletes there that after three months,

623
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: you know, they're pretty close. And so he had a

624
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: lot of information. And I'm not saying that somebody couldn't

625
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: Abestim or Bella or whatever. But he was explained a

626
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: lot of things to me about how some of these

627
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 3: things actually work that I don't think i've you know,

628
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: I it was he brought a lot of stuff to light.

629
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: And then you started like kind of referencing it with

630
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 3: the coaches, and I'm like, WHOA, this is way different.

631
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 2: Than the perception because I feel like a lot of.

632
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 3: Times it's very surfacey, Like if you look on social media,

633
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,479
Speaker 3: you know this winner, you'll see a lot of Johnny

634
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: Smith is intentsical in the portal says agents so and so,

635
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: And it's usually an agent who is like nobody had

636
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: ever heard of till you know, ten minutes ago, right,

637
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 3: And so it's people who are starting the starting their

638
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 3: business and trying to build leverage the business. They're also

639
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: trying to set a market, you know. And so I

640
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: think you take that stuff with a grain of salt.

641
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: And so it's just very interesting.

642
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 3: Like I had a conversation with a coach over Christmas

643
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: and then it eventually got into, yeah, we had one

644
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 3: of our players who like and this coach was like

645
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: almost incredulous that this guy became a real hot commodity

646
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 3: in the portal and so as we're talking. I googled

647
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: his name and I was like, whoa, this guy is

648
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 3: way higher ranked than this guy is talking about like

649
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: and he was like just kind of you know, he

650
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 3: know him better than probably the coaches who are going

651
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 3: to recruited him, you know, like this winner because he

652
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 3: coached him.

653
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: And he was just like, you know, it's it's just

654
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: a really interesting.

655
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: That he's just a guy, right, that there was.

656
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: A guy who has traits.

657
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: He's a guy who has traits but really couldn't be

658
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: counted on in the field because there's a lot of

659
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: stuff because there's just so many mental mistakes and different things,

660
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: and these were the shortcomings are that you probably wouldn't

661
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: know unless.

662
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: You work with the person every day.

663
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: And the point of it is like it's very murky

664
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 3: in the portal space, right, So I it's interesting, but

665
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 3: like you know, you were asking me in the beginning

666
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 3: about like you know, and I felt I was like,

667
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: how are you chasing all these things left and right?

668
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: Because there's so much stuffs the portal. I feel like

669
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: it's like you got to be I get why it's news.

670
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 3: And I mean, like I one of the guys who's

671
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 3: you know, neck deep in it is our friend Max

672
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 3: Olson's who's a great guy, you good reporter and very smart,

673
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 3: and it's just like, man, this is this could be

674
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 3: dizzying when you get into it. Maxim I used to

675
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 3: have when I work with him at the Athletic last

676
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 3: last year, we'd have some interesting conversations not arguments, but

677
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: just interesting conversations about the stuff we'd heard from different

678
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 3: sources about certain players. And you know, and certainly guys

679
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: can flourish in different spots.

680
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the school that you went to.

681
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how many people outside of

682
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 3: maybe maybe three would have been like, oh yeah, Bonix

683
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: is going to be tear it up in on the

684
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 3: other side of the country and then go be a

685
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 3: terrific young NFL quarterback.

686
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: Right, I mean that can happen in the right system.

687
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 3: Like I saw firsthand how amazing Joe Burrow was, you know,

688
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 3: like he's the one guy I've seen in the last

689
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: ten years was a quarterback. I'm like, oh yeah, I

690
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 3: bet my money on him being an NFL star because

691
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: I know what he was like and I know what

692
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 3: the coaches thought of him. Yet and again, this is

693
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: no fault on Joe Burrow. I mean he didn't. You know,

694
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 3: they picked Dwayne Haskins, who was a huge recreui. We

695
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 3: ended up throwing for like fifty times. It was you know,

696
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 3: the guy they picked couldn't throw. But it's just it's

697
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: that thing that's that's it's like a it's the new

698
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 3: version of recruiting. Like you and I both, I know

699
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 3: you like recruiting more than you probably you know more.

700
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 3: It's more trouble than it's worth. But it's a fascination,

701
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: right And I definitely had that too. That's why I

702
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: did meet market and I think there's a lot of

703
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 3: us like that. I just think with the portal because

704
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: there's another layer of it, because it's the money part

705
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 3: of it that takes it into like ooh, this is

706
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 3: this is.

707
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: Like this is murky, this is a little sleazy, but

708
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: this is definitely interesting.

709
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: What changed at Michigan. I mean, obviously the loser changes

710
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: people and gets people riled up. And you know the

711
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: stories about Larry Ellison's girlfriend or wife going to Michigan

712
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: and him putting money into the program, and obviously Bryce

713
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: Underwood was a huge thing, Like how often does that

714
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: happen where just like oh, the right person has a

715
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: fire lit under them. And now you know, the sort

716
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: of calculus behind the scenes has changed immensely. And what

717
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: do you know about Michigan.

718
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 3: Desperation changes things look like desperation and alignment are a

719
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 3: dangerous combination. And so Oregon has it because Phil Knight,

720
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,959
Speaker 3: you know, I feel I once sor in a national

721
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 3: title before he's not with us anymore.

722
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you have that, I mean same, what's

723
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: that same?

724
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 2: Same for me?

725
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: I'd like to organ to win a national title. I

726
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: just don't have, you know, the capital.

727
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, But like ole Miss, super ambitious, super aggressive. They've

728
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: ramped up their portal in a big way. Walker Jones,

729
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 3: who was a or a player back in the nineties.

730
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: You know, they're really good at that, you know. And

731
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 3: I think they've given Lane Kiffin more resources than Ole

732
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: Miss's probably ever had, certainly ever had, you know. But

733
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 3: when it comes to Michigan, it was a rough year,

734
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 3: and I think there's a there's some unique pieces of this,

735
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 3: right Like I think the way Jim Harbaugh operated and

736
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: every year for the last three years Jim Harbaugh danced

737
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: with the NFL. It was not a surprise that Jim

738
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 3: Harball was going to leave after he won a national title. Fact,

739
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: it would have been a real surprise if we stayed.

740
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 3: But so because of that, I think a few things happened.

741
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 3: I think the collective was kind of like, how much

742
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 3: has it factored in? From what I was told from

743
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 3: people inside the Michigan program, Jim Harball was not aggressively

744
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 3: going after Rice Underwad, who's obviously a local quarterback and

745
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 3: super talented.

746
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 2: It was like, hey, let the SEC fight over him, right.

747
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 3: And then after Harbaugh to come out here to the

748
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 3: West Coast to be an NFL coach, Michigan brought back

749
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 3: Sean McGee, who is a Naval Academy guy and very smart,

750
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 3: and he'd been in the NFL in the front office

751
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: with the Bears.

752
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: He came back.

753
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 3: He's the GM and I think from what I've heard,

754
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 3: it was a big priority for him. And for sure

755
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 3: own more. This guy's in our back. You already grow

756
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 3: up a Michigan fan. What are we doing here? And

757
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 3: I think the alignment they had and Michigan has real

758
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 3: money people, Yeah, it's just like Larry whatever, Like if

759
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 3: it's Larry Ellison's wife.

760
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 2: That's what I initially heard.

761
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 3: It was yeah, like you know, obviously that's you know,

762
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 3: an insane amount of money they have access.

763
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: To, but it's not like Michigan has. You know, you

764
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: go into the Michigans.

765
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 3: There are certain Big Ten schools that the pool is

766
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 3: way deeper than you get at a lot of SEC schools,

767
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 3: where it may be you know, three big boosters who

768
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 3: have money burning a hole in their pocket, but then

769
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: if it doesn't work out, he gets sideways with them.

770
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 3: The roster on those people is not as deep now

771
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 3: Texas and m I know, it's an Mesagy school. Different story,

772
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 3: same thing with Texas because you have a lot of

773
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 3: energy money, but Michigan has that, and I think in

774
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 3: this version of it talking to people at Michigan, they're

775
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 3: more confident about it in this model than they were

776
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 3: in the back in the day of under the table

777
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 3: money because this is something that they feel like they're

778
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 3: way better resource than most of the SEC is to

779
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 3: win a lot of these battles.

780
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: In that conference. In the Big Ten, there's a school

781
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: that is kind of the most confusing to me, But

782
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: I also feel like might be sort of a victim

783
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: of the modern era, and that's Wisconsin. Wisconsin was the

784
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: homegrown guys in Wisconsin, Minnesota and nearby states. You're building

785
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: up great lines. They've got NFL players all over the place.

786
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: They hire a guy fresh off of the playoff in

787
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: Cincinnati and Luke Fickle and it just seems to have

788
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: gone sideways. I mean they've dealt with injuries obviously, notably

789
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: a quarterback, but even like Tyler Van Dyke never I

790
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: don't think really struck the fear of God into the

791
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: Wisconsin schedule. Is this sort of just like we know

792
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: kind of know how this is going to end, but

793
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: it hasn't yet, Like has this been a shock to

794
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: you that Wisconsin is like the most solid ground program

795
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: in the country. You could, you know, write them in

796
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: for eight nine wins a year minimum is like you know,

797
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: grasping at Australia. They lose a cornerback to Miami and

798
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: there's this big like to do back and forth and

799
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: Xavier Lucas like are they just not built for these times?

800
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 3: I think a couple of things happened, like remember they

801
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 3: were there used to be east and West in the

802
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 3: Big ten pre the four you know for old pac

803
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 3: twelve schools come in, so you were you were better

804
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 3: positions scheduling wise. I'm not saying that were beating nobody's

805
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 3: but like they were as resourced as anybody on that

806
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: side of it.

807
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: It was like them and Iowa. You know, Nebraska was

808
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: spinning its wheels.

809
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 3: You had Purdue Illinois went through, you know, like Beeluma's

810
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 3: god in Illinois to be good. I mean, he's actually

811
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: kind of done in some degree what it used to be,

812
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 3: you know, and.

813
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: You know, Northwestern, just.

814
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 3: Like in Minnesota, it's like they're all kind of in

815
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 3: the same boatly, and I think in the first year

816
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 3: it sounded like Wisconsin had real, like some not great

817
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 3: staff chemistry on the offensive side of the ball.

818
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: Then you mentioned they get Tyler van Dyke.

819
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 3: Tyler Van Dyke got hurt in the game we were

820
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 3: at early in the season against Alabama, a game I

821
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 3: don't think they were gonna win anyway, because they're just

822
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: not They're just not as talented, and it just felt

823
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 3: like they were struggling to find their identity. They had

824
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 3: a stretch in mid season where they won three in

825
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 3: a row or four in a row, and they you're

826
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 3: talking to somebody on the staff there, they were like,

827
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 3: you know, Luke's very confident and it started to reflect

828
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 3: his temperament. Let's just kind of let's just be good

829
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 3: at what we're good at. And and I think, you know,

830
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 3: it felt like they were a low ceiling team, right

831
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: and I think they can still be like an eight

832
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: win team, but that's not like where they were before.

833
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 3: It was like they were winning ten. They were winning

834
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: double digits very consistently. And I don't I'm not saying

835
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 3: they can't get back to that because that guy got

836
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 3: Cincinnati to a playoff, Like he has a formula, he

837
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 3: knows what it takes. Obviously, you know, you know, overturned

838
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 3: his offensive staff. I don't know, like I thought this

839
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 3: would have gone better than it has, but I can

840
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: see why they are struggling. You know, I can see

841
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 3: why right now they're just in the pack and Iowa

842
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 3: feels like they're a step ahead of them. You know,

843
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 3: you have Minnesota, Like you know, I know PJ. Fleck,

844
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 3: there's some people who don't like him. He's a good coach. Like, yes,

845
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: I think we'll see what happens with like you know,

846
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 3: some of those mid tier schools like a Chigan State.

847
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 3: Obviously they weren't a West team, but like you know,

848
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 3: Jonathan Smith. He did a really good job at a

849
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 3: place it's even tougher to win. I think we'll see

850
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 3: what happens with Matt Ruhle. They I was expecting them.

851
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 3: They took certainly a step forward in his second year.

852
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 3: I thought they would have taken a bigger step forward.

853
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 3: But they've They've been aggressive in the portal and they've

854
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 3: really taken some big swings. And you know, I wouldn't

855
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: write them off, you know, like if you asked me

856
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 3: and you didn't, But like if I ask you this,

857
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 3: like two years from now, who do you think is

858
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 3: better Nebraska Wisconsin?

859
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 2: My gut is going to be Nebraska, right.

860
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: That makes sense. They seem to even with the offensive

861
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: struggles this year, the momentum is there, the defense is there,

862
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: The hiring has been there. Like the Tony White hires

863
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: seem to have been very good, even though he has

864
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: now moved on to Florida State. I think maybe the

865
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 1: higher of the last couple of years, I mean, basically

866
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: has been Kurt Signetti in Indiana with what he did immediately,

867
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: but even closer to you, and I'm more familiar with

868
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 1: him as well, Kenny Dillon him at Arizona State has

869
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: surpassed my expectations given where that program was, given how

870
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: much he needed to hit the portal, given you know,

871
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: changing conferences, just the number of challenges. He gave an

872
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: interview where he like had to thank he didn't have to,

873
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: he felt compelled to thank an individual booster because if

874
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: it weren't for him, Arizona State wouldn't exist. Essentially, what

875
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: have you heard behind the scenes about the job he's done,

876
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: and do you expect is there a ceiling for Arizona

877
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 1: State or do you expect this program to keep climbing.

878
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 2: I don't think there is a ceiling.

879
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 3: Like you know, you talk to enough old people and

880
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 3: they're like, yeah, that was always a sleeping giant, right.

881
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 3: There's a lot of talent. It's not Southern California, but

882
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 3: there's still a lot of talent around there. And I

883
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 3: think Kenny Dillingham obviously.

884
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: Grew up there. You know, he was a student there.

885
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 3: He's been around good programs, he's smart, he has a

886
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 3: ton of energy.

887
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 2: I mean.

888
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 3: Our old colleague Ari Wasserman, who will say some outlandish

889
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 3: stuff from time to time. Yeah, Ari, you know, beating

890
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 3: his chest about they got to hire Kenny Dillingham and

891
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 3: wrote a.

892
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: Column about it. I'm not saying ri he was the

893
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: only one who said they should have done that.

894
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: Like just like the first year when they were held

895
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: together with glue and Scattaboo was doing everything, like everything

896
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 3: playing quarterback, he was punting whatever. They beat UCLA because

897
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 3: Kenny went in and we're going to run basically swinging gate. Yeah,

898
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 3: all this funky stuff that Dan Casey would spend hours

899
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 3: probably like laughing about. Yeah, and it showed his ingenuity

900
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 3: and creativity and like his effort, you know, kind of

901
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 3: quality and it's good and like, so they're in the

902
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 3: what you said, asked me was there.

903
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: They're in the Big twelve and there is no powerhouse there.

904
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 3: There's no Ohio State there, there's no you know, Alabama there,

905
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 3: there's it's just different and it's the most up for

906
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: grabs conference. You're in an area where you should be

907
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 3: able to get a lot of players. We'll see if

908
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 3: they like really ramp up facilities and everything, because remember

909
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 3: it was a freaking mess when herm was there.

910
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: It was like.

911
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 3: Just total chaos of the stuff was going on. And

912
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 3: they had still sounds of good players. Jon had a

913
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: ton of players yeah, they've always had some players around there.

914
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 3: It was just a you know, incredible amount of dysfunction

915
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: and can't get out of your own way. And now

916
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: they have something they can build off of. And then

917
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 3: the league there where like if you ask me, and

918
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 3: there's other really good coaches. I mean, Case State's always

919
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 3: going to be a problem as long as climbing there

920
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: is there. And I think, you know, Matt Campbell's really

921
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: good coach at Iowa State and it was around BYU

922
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 3: and Klane kind of has that thing going. And we'll

923
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 3: see what happens with Colorado in terms of staying power

924
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: and you know TCUs resources and whatnot. And we know

925
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 3: Texas Tech spending a ton of money, but like there

926
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 3: is nothing in that league that would be like, oh,

927
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 3: like ASU is gonna have our time competing with that

928
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 3: because like nobody has history like that, so.

929
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 2: Got a ton of momentum. I mean, shoot, they should

930
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: have probably beat Texas.

931
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 3: In that yeah, right, So, I mean I know Scataboo's gone,

932
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 3: but like Skataboo, I feel like left behind, like a

933
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 3: legacy and that like I always felt like like towards

934
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 3: the end of the year they that program was taking

935
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 3: on his personality, but you're seeing them go play all out,

936
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 3: running their face into walls.

937
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 2: I mean, just like that.

938
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 3: I think that can stay the quarterbacks really talented. I

939
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 3: think he's a guy who was like, if you told

940
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 3: me two years from now that he's a top ten pick,

941
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 3: I'd be like, Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me.

942
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: You know, So in today's modern era, which direction are

943
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: you going in terms of hiring because Kenny Dillingham, you know,

944
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: has had been a coordinator at major place as an

945
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: assistant at major places in Auburn and Florida State and Oregon,

946
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: and it's seems like the coaches, especially the younger coaches

947
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: who are succeeding, have that major program experience as assistants

948
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: and are not necessarily coming over from a G five

949
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: job or a power job to a power job with

950
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned two of those guys, and Brian

951
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: Kelly and Lincoln Riley struggling to find footing going from

952
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: major job to major job. Is there a specific direction

953
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: you would go in that is more advantaged in this,

954
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: you know, in twenty twenty five.

955
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 3: I would lean towards the guy who is the established

956
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 3: lower divisions coach who's kept on winning. Now that's actually

957
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 3: Brian Kelly too, That's true. He was at Grand Valley

958
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 3: State and he was at Central Michigan and he's definitely

959
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 3: a CEO.

960
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 2: Lance Leipold is exactly that.

961
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: Certainly, Klen de Borr is that I would be more

962
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 3: inclined to bet on that if I was in that position.

963
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know how it's going to Like,

964
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 3: it hasn't always work, Like Paul Wolfe was the guy

965
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: before Leech at Washington successful.

966
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: It did not work there, but.

967
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: Kurt Signetti right in smaller schools, I.

968
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 2: Won Yeacnetti right, absolutely, Signetti.

969
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 3: I mean there's there's so many examples of guys like that,

970
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 3: whereas the ones which is like it's tough and I

971
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 3: think is the hot coordinator guy, Like there really wasn't

972
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 3: that guy in this cycle, No clost The thing I

973
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 3: could think of was Shannon Dawson, the OC at Miami.

974
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 3: Like there was jobs that I was like, oh, I

975
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 3: could see Shannon play for it. You know, he went

976
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: to college in North Carolina. There was a job at

977
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 3: app State that I know he was. They were interested

978
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 3: in him. I don't think he was getting North Carolina,

979
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 3: but like I could you know like he was. He's

980
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 3: a really good offensive coach. He's got presence to him,

981
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,479
Speaker 3: and I could see but beyond that, if you looked

982
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 3: at like just the in the final four coordinators, Chip

983
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 3: Kelly's sixty or sixty one, Al Golden's mid fifties, Jim

984
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 3: Knowles is about sixty, and who's the other one I'm

985
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 3: thinking of, Oh, Mike denbro is around sixty. So and

986
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 3: those guys are all guys who had outstanding years. So

987
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 3: it's not like there was a lot of you know,

988
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 3: he had Will Stein at.

989
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: Your alma mater.

990
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 3: I think will has done some really good stuff. There's

991
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 3: certainly some young coaches who are like, yeah, keep an

992
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 3: eye on that guy. It wasn't like the cycle of

993
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: a like five years ago, or oh, here comes Joe

994
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,959
Speaker 3: Brady as the passing coordinator at LSU on the national title,

995
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 3: or here comes.

996
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: Like some of those guys got jobs and I think

997
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: that's changed things a little.

998
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 3: Or some of the coaches are so young, like I

999
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 3: could see Danton Lynn as a head coach somewhere.

1000
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 2: Danton's still really young. But there's you know, like Kenny Dillingham,

1001
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 2: super young.

1002
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 3: He got a job where they were desperate and it's

1003
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 3: a great fit and he's crushing it, so could get

1004
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 3: on the Arizona State people for giving him a shot.

1005
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: Final question. You do a series I don't know if

1006
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: it has a name, but it's really good where you

1007
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: talk to a lot of coaches ahead of big games,

1008
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: either during the regular season or in the postseason. I'm

1009
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: just curious to know what that process is. Are you

1010
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,959
Speaker 1: just spamming everybody you know who's played them? Have people

1011
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: solved riddles in the comments? I'm like, Oh, that's that?

1012
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 1: That quote? Is this guy for sure? I mean I

1013
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: tried to do that when I read it, and I'm

1014
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: almost probably almost always wrong. How much is unprintable? So

1015
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: here's what I want. I want to behind the scenes

1016
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: on your behind the scenes series.

1017
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 2: Okay, so the best one I did of those this year?

1018
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: Tell people what it is more more, you know, clearly

1019
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: than I just did.

1020
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, the best The best one of those for me

1021
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 3: was actually the one on Notre Dame going into the

1022
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 3: into the national title game. Okay, Like I had two

1023
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 3: strong groups of coaches who played both teams, Indiana guys,

1024
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: Penn State guys. But then thereose other guys who I

1025
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 3: had who had played played Notre Dame as well. They

1026
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 3: were really candidate the I wasn't even sure I was

1027
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 3: going to do one of those. And then I have

1028
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 3: a coach who I talked to all the time who's

1029
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 3: a great quote and he's very ended about stuff. And

1030
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 3: I didn't go in saying, hey, I'm doing this story.

1031
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 3: I just asked him, like, tell me about them. And

1032
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 3: because I know I have a podcast or you know

1033
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 3: two at the time, you know, because I was I

1034
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 3: still do the Bare Beets one and see LKA and

1035
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: you know there's other stuff that. So I wasn't planning

1036
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 3: to do a story until I talked to this guy

1037
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 3: for an hour and five minutes, and then I got

1038
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 3: some amazing stuff that was just kind of like, Okay,

1039
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 3: this is great and sight a lot of it I

1040
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 3: honestly couldn't use because it was too specific. Like that's

1041
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 3: where you run into like the behind the scenes of

1042
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 3: it is is like, oh, this is a dead giveaway

1043
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 3: who this is right because it's so specific. There's an

1044
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 3: example like this might not have been for this story.

1045
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 3: But like I remember, I asked somebody, why did man

1046
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 3: so and so ate you guys up? This was like

1047
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 3: the third receiver on their team, and I was like,

1048
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 3: how good is he? And he was like thought about it.

1049
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 3: He's like oh wait, wait, wait wait, and then he

1050
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 3: was like what and was we had a third string

1051
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 3: cornerback in that game?

1052
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: Right?

1053
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 3: Like you know, it was like that probably doesn't happen

1054
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 3: even if our backups in you know. So it's like, yeah,

1055
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 3: the guy had like four catches for one hundred and

1056
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 3: thirteen yards, but like seventy of them came on a

1057
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 3: complete bust where the kid, you know, the kids should

1058
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 3: be playing probably FCS football, right, So it's like, okay,

1059
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 3: that's where the stats are kind of like when you

1060
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 3: hear what happened, you kind of take it like better context, right,

1061
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 3: And so those things are great for me because I

1062
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 3: just feel like I learned so much and you know,

1063
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 3: it's just really interesting to go through it. Like we

1064
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 3: did something during the national title game where I had

1065
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 3: a coach who's a head coach, and I said, we

1066
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 3: talked about this at a time, and I was like,

1067
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 3: do you want to be on the record off the record.

1068
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 2: He was like, oh, let's be off the record. It's okay.

1069
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 3: So during the game, like I was like, give me

1070
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 3: your observations and some of the stuff he had was great.

1071
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 3: You know, it was just like, you know, it's just

1072
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 3: very interesting to get because they see the game way

1073
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 3: differently than you know, I don't care who it is who,

1074
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 3: Like there's some really you know, good people to follow,

1075
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 3: whether it's on whatever social media who either do all

1076
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 3: twenty two stuff or whatever.

1077
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 2: But they didn't play against the team, they didn't coach

1078
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 2: against the team.

1079
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 3: They don't you know, they may know some stuff because

1080
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 3: they heard somebody, you know, give a clinic talk, but

1081
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 3: then when you get some of this other perspective on things,

1082
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll share this part.

1083
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 2: Like I asked.

1084
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 3: If I asked Chip Kelly about the orbit return play

1085
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: that Jeremiah Smith scores on in the National.

1086
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: Title game at Alabama had run?

1087
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, And I was like, were you guys saving that?

1088
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 3: And he was like, well, you know, and then you

1089
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 3: talk about it, he's like, well, we didn't want to

1090
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 3: run it against you know, against sark in Texas because

1091
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 3: the systems are fairly similar, and so you figure like, oh,

1092
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 3: they're gonna they're going to be able to pick up

1093
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 3: on that easier, you know, And it's just kind of

1094
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:59,240
Speaker 3: interesting to get the actual background of why somebody did something.

1095
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 2: So so I go into all this stuff. Dan, I

1096
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: was like, I want to learn stuff like and.

1097
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 3: The only tricky part is when the fingerprints are so

1098
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,919
Speaker 3: easy to see, where I'm like, ah, I gotta beat Yeah,

1099
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 3: like Stu once asked me.

1100
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 2: He was like, oh, that was so and so right,

1101
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: and I was like, no. The reason why and the

1102
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 2: reason why I.

1103
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 3: Thought that was because it like it was like a

1104
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 3: former like I think I referenced that this was not

1105
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 3: for like in the last couple of months, but it

1106
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 3: was like it's a former PAC twelve head coach, and

1107
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 3: so he's like, oh, that has to be Chip Kelly

1108
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 3: or that has to be whatever. Like almost everybody there

1109
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 3: was like eleven guys who are former Pack twelve head

1110
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 3: coaches now right, Like he was like Lincoln Riley is

1111
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 3: a former PAC twelve head coach. You go through the list,

1112
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 3: like Kenny Dellayham is a former PAC twelve head coach.

1113
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 3: Dan Lanning is So I was like, it's just the

1114
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 3: way you identify somebody in a story. Or I'd be like, yeah,

1115
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 3: they saw they played him in the second half of

1116
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 3: the seat. You know, you're just like you're trying to

1117
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 3: be careful on not you know, and sometimes sometimes the

1118
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 3: readers to get it right, you know, for sure, but

1119
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 3: like but more times than not, they're just assuming, oh,

1120
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 3: it's this guy, and I'm like a man, that's not

1121
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 3: who it is?

1122
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 2: Or what is?

1123
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 3: What?

1124
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: What else is unprintable? Is there like an unbelievable amount

1125
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 1: of confidence that you're just like a I don't know

1126
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: if that's I guess that's probably the most printable, right

1127
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: if a coach saying like they're going to murder them,

1128
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: it would shock me if they don't murder them. Is

1129
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: there anything that's unprintable besides you know, being too obvious

1130
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: in terms of decoding.

1131
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 3: The part that I get, I get cautious of on

1132
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 3: and this is a this is like a good discussion

1133
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 3: point is there's still college players. Yes, they are getting paid,

1134
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 3: some of them are getting paid seven figures, but just

1135
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 3: how critical, right you let somebody be Yeah, and yours

1136
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 3: is a good example here, Like he's like somebody was

1137
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: not shy about letting it float out that he is

1138
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 3: making seven figures at a really early age as a

1139
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 3: you know, as a college player. But he's still a

1140
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 3: college player, and he's still a teenager at the time,

1141
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 3: and so the comments are like of him, and I think,

1142
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 3: what's what's delicate is this guy was, as you know,

1143
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 3: like the highest ranked quarterback recruit in the history of

1144
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 3: like two four, seven and Rivals and that whole you

1145
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 3: know group.

1146
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 2: Right, Well, he had a really good career.

1147
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 3: Now, if you told me, like to be the highest

1148
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 3: five star ever, you know, like who does that, Like

1149
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 3: what kind of career do you have to have? Right?

1150
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 3: You Like, you would expect him to be a top

1151
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 3: ten pick at least, right, and that very rarely happens,

1152
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 3: Like like Joe Burrow was like a low four high

1153
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 3: three star.

1154
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 2: I'm a two Sisters two services and he you know,

1155
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: obviously exceeded. But it's usually like you know, it's tricky

1156
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 2: on that. So it's like people are are like.

1157
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 3: Blunt about it, and coaches, especially when it comes to quarterbacks,

1158
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 3: will tell you will be very critical and you want

1159
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 3: to like I remembered not this past year, but in

1160
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three going into the Alabama Michigan game, like

1161
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 3: I had a lot of really good stuff and as

1162
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 3: you remember, I think like a lot of people thought

1163
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 3: Alabama was going to win that game. And if you

1164
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 3: read my story a lot of the coaches, and I

1165
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 3: remember one coach in particular was like it was almost

1166
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 3: like we were arguing.

1167
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: We weren't.

1168
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 3: But I was like, like, this guy was flat wrong

1169
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 3: on how good Michigan was and he didn't give them

1170
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 3: that much credit. And the Michigan fans were like, thought,

1171
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 3: I was like urban Meyer for putting that out. I'd

1172
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 3: written more about Michigan. I predicted Michigan to win the

1173
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 3: national title in the preseason and in the spring.

1174
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 2: You know about it.

1175
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 3: But like that was at least one of the people

1176
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 3: I talked to, And it wasn't selective, like, oh, let

1177
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 3: me find the people who think Alabama is going to

1178
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 3: maul Michigan. But like that there's something that that definitely

1179
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 3: goes into that you know where you're sitting there, going okay,

1180
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 3: how does this read like in terms of that, You know,

1181
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 3: I wasn't shocked that Michigan would beat Alabama. It was

1182
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 3: like and it didn't feel like it was that fluky.

1183
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I think a lot of

1184
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 3: people looked at them. They had beaten Georgia and you know,

1185
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 3: like Michigan stubbed their toe the year before against TCU,

1186
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 3: they didn't look very good against Georgia two years earlier.

1187
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 2: Right, So you know, Michigan was one of those schools

1188
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 2: where it's like they would win.

1189
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 3: And they certainly have talent, especially on defense, and JJ

1190
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 3: McCarthy's more talented than I think a lot of college

1191
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 3: media wanted to give them credit for at the time.

1192
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 3: But you you know, some of the things they're really

1193
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 3: good at, they they get glossed over. Really really physical,

1194
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 3: really good offensive line. Those are hard things to like

1195
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 3: kind of you know, it's different if you have justin

1196
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 3: Jefferson or see your Stroud or like really shiny objects.

1197
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: Right, No, that's and look and coach gives you a

1198
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: quote of Jalen Milroe is an Edgresher playing quarterback. You're

1199
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: just like, thank you very much. We have a pull quote,

1200
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: we have a headline. Thank you so much for.

1201
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 2: Your Oh, I got like one of the guys.

1202
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 3: This is like I have some great stuff in my

1203
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 3: head about my coaches, about like a couple of guys

1204
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 3: and it's like it's rough, but it's like you can

1205
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 3: tell it's coaches who really would love to have a

1206
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 3: couple of these guys on their team. It's like a

1207
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 3: coach who used to have used to used to work

1208
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 3: for one of these schools and knows what these guys are.

1209
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 3: Some of these guys are like and I was like, Okay,

1210
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 3: these are guys I can talk about in context, but

1211
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: I can I can never use some.

1212
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 2: Of this stuff because it's right right, it's identifiable.

1213
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was almost it's more fun almost in reading

1214
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: those pieces where there's a coach who's just so effusive

1215
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: that they're just like, oh, number fifty two is something else,

1216
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,439
Speaker 1: like that kind of guy never around. That's the cool

1217
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: stuff when because you just assume coaches are going to

1218
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: be jaded and be like, yeah, he's fine, or that's

1219
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: a guy like yes, they're they're better there. But when

1220
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: a coach is like, yeah, number eighty one is a

1221
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: problem that nobody's going to be able to solve. I

1222
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: kind of like that kind of honesty to it.

1223
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's definitely some of those, some of

1224
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 3: those where it's like like JJ Smith was the guy that,

1225
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 3: like I would tell Stu all season because we had

1226
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 3: won Ohio State like seven times. If you have to

1227
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 3: see him in person, you don't realize how big he is, right,

1228
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 3: Like Ulston it's two fifteen. Chip was like, yeah, he's

1229
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 3: like two twenty eight. You know, he's like a huge

1230
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 3: man who can really run, you know, who's really skilled

1231
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 3: and everything else. And it's like I think some of

1232
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 3: those things is like, you know, I have the advantage

1233
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 3: of being at the games and seeing people up close.

1234
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: You can kind of see things, and he gives.

1235
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 3: You just a different perspective on Like my kid is

1236
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 3: really into Madden and everything, and we're talking about pen

1237
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 3: A school and I was like, let me show you

1238
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 3: something because like we did a gain, you'd probably remember this.

1239
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 3: This is my when I was doing sideline where it

1240
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 3: was one of the rare it might be the only

1241
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,919
Speaker 3: time I've ever interviewed all offensive lineman after the game.

1242
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 3: So Chris the head coach, I'm like, yeah, this is

1243
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 3: this is me. This is another guy who's like two

1244
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty pounds who's the head coach, And this

1245
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 3: is this like huge land mass of an individual. Right

1246
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 3: just to see him move like that, it's not normal,

1247
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 3: you know, it's just not you know, it's like Vita Vea.

1248
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 3: Vitaveo was like the like the only guy almost got

1249
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 3: me to curse on camera just because I was like

1250
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 3: this is this is ridiculous, how big and ferocious this

1251
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,439
Speaker 3: guy is. You know, he's just throwing three indred pound

1252
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 3: people around like they're like they're ottomans.

1253
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: I remember so our friend Jeff Schwartz got a text

1254
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: from Mario Crystabal about pane Seoul in fall camp and

1255
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: it was cut ups of Panae in one on ones

1256
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: or Oklahoma drill or something like that, and the quote

1257
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: this is true freshman Pine Sool was Mario Crystabal was

1258
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: like day one left tackle, day one draft pick, before

1259
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: he had played a game. He was like, this is

1260
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: a complete unicorn. You don't see this ever, and Panae

1261
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 1: Sool is like is on a clear path, like he's

1262
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: already ready to be an All American left tackle. He

1263
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 1: only played two years in college. But I just remember

1264
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: seeing that and hearing that and saw some of the cutups,

1265
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: was like, oh, okay, this is different.

1266
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 2: We have a situation people didn't say they want about

1267
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 2: about Mario as a coach.

1268
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 3: Mario has a really good eye for talent, and he

1269
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 3: has especially good eye for alignment. You know, I think

1270
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 3: of so many examples of guys that, you know, I

1271
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 3: want to say, maybe Deron Payne who was at Alabama

1272
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 3: early as a young player, maybe when he was even

1273
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 3: a recruit before.

1274
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 2: He left, but there was guys where he was he

1275
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 2: could see it.

1276
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 3: And look, I mean he he saw more like ridiculous

1277
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 3: talent at Miami as a player than probably anybody.

1278
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 2: So I think that probably shaped it.

1279
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 3: And then he was at Alama, but he definitely knows,

1280
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 3: you know, knows what it knows what it looks like at.

1281
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 2: That at that level. And so I just remember that

1282
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 2: particular guy.

1283
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 3: And then also it's like, Okay, now Thibodeau has to

1284
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 3: go up against him every day and practice.

1285
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 2: What does that look like? Right? Right?

1286
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: No, all makes sense. Bruce Feldman taking up way too

1287
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: much of your time Fox Sports. The athletic bear bets

1288
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: the audible anywhere where there's college football, Bruce is somewhere.

1289
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: So Bruce, thank you very much for your time. And

1290
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: I owe you a lot of crutons. I guess next

1291
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: time you're are you in Chicago at all in the

1292
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:36,439
Speaker 1: next year.

1293
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 3: So hopefully, I mean honestly, like, I am one who

1294
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 3: loves deep dish pizza and you're the only I'm not

1295
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 3: shitting you know, the only one who's like competitive with that, because.

1296
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: Oh I am, and I actually, like, I know a

1297
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: mal natty at this point, so I don't know what

1298
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: that actually means. But uh, I'm not intimidated, is what

1299
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm saying.

1300
01:04:58,640 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 2: I'm ready to you shouldn't be.

1301
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 3: Shouldn't be like I just can't get over you should

1302
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 3: basically put up a shingle and open up.

1303
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 2: Don't laugh. I think you would probably.

1304
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: Oh no, I appreciate it. I'll say this. Anybody who

1305
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: I am friends with in college football, if you're listening

1306
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: to this, come by. I will make you pizza. I

1307
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: don't want to deal with the public at all. I

1308
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever worked in a restaurant. I have.

1309
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: It's the public is terrible to work with with food.

1310
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: But I like cooking for friends and family, and so

1311
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: you get included in that.

1312
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 2: I'm grateful.

1313
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: All right, thank you so much for your time, and

1314
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll talk soon. You got it.