1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to blow your mind. My name 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. It is Saturday once more, so we 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: have a vault episode for you. This one is going 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: to be the episode The Colossus of Rhodes with Michael 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: Dennis Higgins. Michael Dennis Higgins wrote an excellent book titled 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: The Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, Science, Engineering, and Technology. 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: This is a lot of fun we get into, specifically 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: talking about the Colossus of Rhods, what it was, you know, 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: how we understand it, and indeed how it might be rebuilt. So, 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: without further ado, let's jump right in this one originally 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: published July twenty seventh, twenty twenty three. Everyone knows the 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: renowned Seven Wonders of the World, but few have set 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: eyes on them. For in order to do so, you 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: have to arrange a long journey to the land of 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: the Persians on the far side of the Euphrates to 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: visit Egypt. You must then change direction and go to 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: Ilia in Greece. Then you must see Halakarnassis, a city 18 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: state in Karia, and Ephesus in Ionia, and you have 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: to sail to Rhodes, so that, being exhausted by lengthy 20 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: wanderings over the Earth's surface, and growing tired from the 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: effort of these journeys, you finally fulfill your heart's desire 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: only when life is ebbing away, leaving you weak through 23 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: the weight of years. 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 25 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. Those are the words of Philo of Byzantium, 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: promoting the idea of the Seven Wonders of the World. 28 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: On today's episode, I'm going to be chatting with Professor 29 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: Michael Dinni Higgins, author of the new book The Seven 30 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: Wonders of the Ancient World, Science, Engineering, and Technology, out 31 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: now from Oxford University Press in both physical and digital formats. 32 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: It's an absolutely wonderful book, and we've actually used it 33 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: already as a source on the show in our series 34 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: on mud, specifically in our section on mud bricks, so 35 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: I'm delighted to have the author on the show. When 36 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: we set this up a couple of weeks ago, we 37 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: decided to just focus on a single wonder as opposed 38 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: to all seven of the wonders of the world, So 39 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about the Colossus of Rhodes. 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: Let's get right to the interview. Hi Michael, thanks for 41 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: coming on the show. 42 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 3: It's my pleasure to be alone. 43 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: The book is The Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, Science, 44 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: Engineering and Technology. It's a terrific read. Tell us how 45 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: did this project come together? 46 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 3: Well, the project was actually inspired many years ago by 47 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 3: my father. My father was a curator the British Museum. 48 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 3: After he died, I started thinking about what he had done, 49 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 3: and he had written on a chapter on the Colossus 50 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 3: of Roads for a book on the Seven Wonders of 51 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 3: the Ancient World, and so I thought, well, why not 52 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 3: update it a bit, because there'd been nothing really done 53 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 3: seriously on the Seven Wonders in almost forty years, So 54 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 3: hence my book. 55 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: Now we're only going to be focusing on the one 56 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: particular wonder for today's conversation, the Colossus of Rhodes. But 57 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: I thought you might remind our listeners where and when 58 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: this whole concept of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient 59 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: World comes from. 60 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 3: Well, the idea broadly comes from the third century BCE. 61 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: It's a sort of a kind of modern like a 62 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: modern bucket list of things to see before you die, 63 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 3: and it may seem rather surprising that these kind of 64 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: lists existed at that time. Now, it's true that there 65 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: wasn't very much tourism in ancient Greece, and that was 66 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 3: part because travel was by sea and there was a 67 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: lot of problems with pirates. But into Roman times there 68 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 3: was a well established a tourist industry in Greece and 69 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 3: Egypt and Roman and all the rest of it. But 70 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 3: we actually have a tourist guide from the second century 71 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 3: BCE where he describes all the places he went to. 72 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 3: There were many lists, but the most popular and the 73 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 3: one that's come down to us now. It starts, of course, 74 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: with the Pyramids. You can't avoid them, the gardens of Babylon, 75 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 3: the walls of Babylon as well, although that was subsequently 76 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 3: are replaced by the pharos, the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, 77 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: the tomb of King Marsolis, the Temple of Artemis, and 78 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 3: of course the colossos of Rhodes. And the question always 79 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 3: is why were these things chosen? And they were probably 80 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 3: chosen for their size, their beauty, and their engineering challenges. 81 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 3: Also there's another aspect that almost all of them have 82 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 3: some kind of indirect or direct link with Alexander the 83 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 3: third of Macedon. He was the great conqueror who was 84 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 3: known as the Great by those who were not unfortunate 85 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 3: enough to have been conquered by him. 86 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: Now narrowing in on the island of Roads where the 87 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: Classus of Rhodes is his or wise position. Now, unfortunately, 88 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: the island of Rhodes is currently in the news due 89 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: to destructive wildfires, so a refresher might not be as 90 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: essential for listeners as as it normally would be. But 91 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: could you go ahead and position roads for us geographically? 92 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: And I guess geologically, Well, it's a Biggish Greek island 93 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 3: in the southeast GNC. It's near the Turkish Turkish coast. 94 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 3: In antiquity it was known as a warm sunny island, 95 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 3: and in fact it was sacred to the sun god Helios. 96 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 3: And the story is that Zeus had divided up the 97 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 3: world between his brothers, but Helios was away, and when 98 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 3: he came back he found that that he hadn't been 99 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 3: allocated anything. I guess that perhaps held the meeting during 100 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 3: the night, so he wasn't there. But serious offered to 101 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 3: redivide up the world, but Helius saw an island appearing 102 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 3: in the south and asked for it, and that was Rhodes, 103 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 3: and so in a sense that people still worship the 104 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 3: sun there. Of course, it's a major holiday destination. Unfortunately, 105 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 3: it is hot, it's sunny, it's dry for a huge 106 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 3: amount of a very large amount of time every year, 107 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: and so it's very susceptible to fires, which we're seeing 108 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 3: now with the hot weather and that throughout Greece. It's 109 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 3: also susceptible to earthquakes, which come into the story of 110 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 3: the Colossos quite a bit. 111 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: Now. Yeah, turning to the colossus itself, I think many 112 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: of us have seen illustrations of it, but really, what 113 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: was this colossus? What do we think it looked like? 114 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 3: Okay, it was a huge statue, probably thirty three meters high, 115 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: because we have some descriptions which say how big it 116 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 3: was at one hundred feet and it was made of bronze. 117 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 3: Now we don't have any really detailed description. Most people 118 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 3: seem to say, well, everybody knows what it looks like, 119 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: so there's no point in talking about it, and we 120 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 3: don't have any images of it. Although the Rodians actually 121 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: put on their coins the head of Helios now Roman 122 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: in ancient coins were obviously they were used for money, 123 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 3: but there was also essentially made souvenirs, and so they 124 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 3: often had on their coins things that would encourage tourism, 125 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: and one of them was this image of Helios with 126 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 3: curly hair and sun rays coming out of a kind 127 00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 3: of diadem. Now many people have suggested that the image 128 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 3: of the head and perhaps of parts of the body 129 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: was actually inspired by the statues of Alexander, because the 130 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: sculptor who created the colossos was a pupil of the 131 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: official sculptor of Alexander. And as for the rest of 132 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 3: the statue, well, most people think that he probably the 133 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 3: god probably stood upright. He was holding a spear in 134 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: one hand. This was partly of course, to stabilize the statue, 135 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 3: and he may have held a torch above his head. 136 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 3: So if you want to think of what it looked like, well, 137 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 3: clearly the statue of Liberty was inspired by this idea 138 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: of what the statue looked like, and it was created 139 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: to commemorate a very important event in three hundred and 140 00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: five BCE. Now this time Rhodes was and quasi independent 141 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 3: kingdom and it was caught between two major powers which 142 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 3: were ruled by the successors of Alexander. So Alexander had 143 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 3: died some time before, and he just his empire had 144 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 3: been divided up, and two of the big chunks were 145 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 3: Egypt to the south and Macedonia to the north, and 146 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 3: Roads was kind of caught in a proxy war between 147 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 3: these two major states, and Macedonia attacked Roads with a 148 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 3: fleet of ships. The Egyptians came to the rescue and 149 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 3: defeated the Macedonians. And when the Macedonians left, they basically 150 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 3: just ran as fast as they could, and they left 151 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 3: behind most of their military equipment, including some huge siege towers. 152 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 3: And these were towers that were built of wood and 153 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 3: iron and bronze. Some of them maybe are up one 154 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty feet high fifty meters high, and that 155 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: perhaps come back into the story a bit later. So 156 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 3: these towers had rams at the base of them. They 157 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 3: were covered in iron plates to prevent fire arrows setting 158 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 3: fire to the whole wooden structure. And the story goes 159 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 3: that when the Rhodians finally are defeated the Macedonians, that 160 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 3: they sold off a lot of the siege towers. But 161 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 3: I think actually they probably were wise enough to recycle 162 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 3: a lot of the material into the statue that makes sense, 163 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 3: and perhaps sell off other materials they didn't need. So 164 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 3: that was it. 165 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: Now you discussed that of the three surviving descriptions of 166 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: the statue, the longest description, like the most detailed description, 167 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: also seems to present a detailed but implausible construction method. 168 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: What are we to make of. 169 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: This, Yes, it's a bit curious. The description you're talking 170 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 3: about is by Philo of by Xantium, who was a 171 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 3: third century BCE engineer, and he was the one who 172 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 3: may have written the original description of the Seven Wonders, 173 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: although that's somewhat debatable. Now. He talks about how the 174 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: statue had a framework of iron and stone, which is 175 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: okay so far it would have had to have been 176 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 3: built on a framework. But then he goes on and 177 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 3: talks in great detail about how the bronze was poured 178 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 3: on layer after layer, a bit like casting concrete, you know, 179 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 3: putting one layer on, waiting a for it to solidify, 180 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: and then putting another layer on. But it's a very 181 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 3: brutal way of making a statue, and it would have 182 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 3: required a gigantic amount of metal, and it would have 183 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: produced an incredibly heavy statue that would have probably had 184 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 3: problems standing up. It's much more likely that the colossus 185 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: was actually made like smaller statues because they had They 186 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: hadn't made one this high one hundred feet high before, 187 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: but they'd made statues that were thirty forty feet high, 188 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 3: so I mean they knew how to make big statues. 189 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 3: This one was just even bigger. Now. The first stage 190 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 3: in all of these, making any of these statues was 191 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 3: to build a full sized model. So this would have 192 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 3: had a frame of wood or iron. We don't know 193 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 3: whether it's the final frame or not, or whether it 194 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 3: was some kind of temporary affair. So they would have 195 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 3: built a frame of wood and put struts and other 196 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 3: bits on it, and finally smaller and smaller pieces of 197 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 3: wood until they could cover the whole thing with plaster 198 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 3: and make an exact model of what they wanted in 199 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 3: the final structure. So they must have needed cranes and 200 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 3: a shelter to produce this huge structure because it would 201 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 3: have taken years to do. And one possibility is that 202 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 3: they used the old Siege tower or one of the 203 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 3: old siege towers, or at least its framework. Now we 204 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 3: know these siege towers were maybe thirty or forty feet 205 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 3: wide and one hundred feet high. They were made of 206 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 3: wooden frames like I mentioned, covered with metal. So what 207 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: they could have done is dismantled a siege tower, moved 208 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 3: it and re erected it on the base for the statue. 209 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 3: And then they would have used that frame for hauling 210 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 3: things up, and also they could put a roof on 211 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 3: it so they would be sheltered while they were doing 212 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: the construction because they're building the statue probably took about 213 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 3: ten or twelve years, so it's kind of nice to 214 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 3: think that they were recycled. And perhaps the size of 215 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 3: the original siege tower, which would have been large enough 216 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: to reach out over the walls so that they could 217 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: attack the city. Perhaps this is what inspired the size 218 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 3: of the actual statue itself. So the next stage after 219 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: they'd produced that that model was casting the bronze first 220 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 3: light say, you know what is bronze? As people are 221 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 3: often get confused with all these different alloys, it's it's 222 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 3: an alloy of copper and tin and usually lead. Now, 223 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 3: the reason why they mixed up these metals was that 224 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 3: all alloys melt at lower temperatures than pure metals, so 225 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 3: it's less energy, it's easier to pour and bronze. This 226 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: mixture of mostly copper like ninety copper ten and two 227 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 3: few percent lead that also flows more readily than pure copper, 228 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 3: so it was a much better material. It was harder. 229 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 3: Now copper was available from Cypress. Cypress, in fact, even 230 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 3: takes its name from from the ancient Roman name for copper, 231 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: and there are huge deposits there which were exploited until 232 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 3: quite recently. Still they may still be exploited because Cypress 233 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 3: is actually a section of the seafloor that many many 234 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 3: years ago was thrust up above sea level or to 235 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 3: make new land. But I'm sure that many people have 236 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 3: seen pictures of black smokers. There's hot springs on the 237 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 3: ocean floor. The smoke that comes out is actually contains 238 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 3: copper sulfide, And so that's how those deposits on Cypress formed. 239 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 3: And so copper from Cypress was no problem. It had 240 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 3: been exploited for thousands of years before then, and it 241 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 3: was exploited for many years afterwards. Now tin is a 242 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 3: much more of a mystery. We don't know when people 243 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 3: discovered that tin. Addition of tin to copper would make 244 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 3: it melted at a lower temperature, make a harder material. 245 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 3: But it was certainly something extremely important. The problem is 246 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 3: where the tin came from, because there isn't a single 247 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 3: source like Cyprus. Heroditis, who was writing in the fifth 248 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 3: century BCE, talked about the Casierites islands far off in 249 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: the Atlantic, and that may have been England, Southwest England 250 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 3: or Brittany. But it's also possible that the tein actually 251 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 3: came from the far East, because we know that the 252 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: gem material lap is lazuli, was actually imported from Afghanistan 253 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 3: to Europe for a very long period of time. It's 254 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: present in ancient Egypt, so we know there were long 255 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: distance trade routes all the way as far as the 256 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 3: as far as Afghanistan, and it's possible that the tin 257 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 3: came from there, but there may have been just many, many, 258 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 3: many different sources. It was obtained by washing river sediments 259 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 3: a bit like gold place of gold, and it may 260 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: have been essentially a byproduct of gold expotation in some places. Now, 261 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 3: the third component was lead that was added to further 262 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 3: reduce the temperature, but it was also to stretch the 263 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 3: metal because it was incredibly cheap and the reason was 264 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 3: that it was a waste product from the silver mines 265 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 3: near Athens, near near Lavrion, which was the source of 266 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: the of the wealth that built the Parthenon and the 267 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 3: other monuments of classical grease. It was silver, so there 268 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: was pars of lead there. So they would import these 269 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 3: these materials and perhaps recycle a bit, and then they 270 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: had to cast it. So the way that is most 271 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 3: likely that they cast it was that they would have 272 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 3: taken a section of the of the full size model, 273 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 3: maybe up to two or three meters wide to three 274 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 3: meters deep, and they would have covered it with wax. 275 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 3: This would have been bees wax, maybe a quarter inch 276 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 3: thick five milimeters. Then they would have carefully removed the 277 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 3: wax model, covered it in clay and baked it to 278 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 3: make a mold, so the wax would have drained out. 279 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 3: It would have been recycled because it had a lot 280 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 3: of value, and they would vended up with a clay 281 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 3: mold with a hole in it very very narrow width, 282 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 3: just like I said, a quarter of an inch. So 283 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 3: then melt metal and pour it into the mold, and 284 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 3: then once it was cool, you would break up the 285 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 3: mold and clean up the casting because of course it 286 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 3: would probably have holes in it and other little bits 287 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 3: and pieces that need fixing, and then you'd fix those 288 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 3: metal sheets onto the framework, the framework of iron, and 289 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 3: would probably mostly iron. And the total amount of metal 290 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 3: in the statue was probably the order of like one 291 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 3: hundred and thirty one hundred and fifty tons something like that. 292 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 3: So it was it was a significant amount, but it 293 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 3: wasn't It wasn't gigantic. They probably would have produced that 294 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 3: much copper in Cyprus every year, or or perhaps every 295 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 3: six months, So it was it was not. It's not 296 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 3: an impossibly large amount of material. 297 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: How would it have looked from afar? Would it? 298 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 3: Do? 299 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: You do? We think it would have like gleamed in 300 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: the sun. Would it have been like really splendid to behold? 301 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 3: I think initially it would have gleamed in the sun, 302 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 3: but of course it would have. It would have had 303 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 3: a green pattern that developed quite fast. I don't think 304 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: anybody has ever suggested that it was covered in gold. 305 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 3: You could have put a thin coating of gold on it. 306 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: It was sometimes done, but it probably wouldn't last that long. 307 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 3: I mean, remember that it was put up beside the sea, 308 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 3: and so there was a certain amount of sea spray 309 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 3: which would have corroded it, so I think, you know, 310 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 3: it would have looked green, and it would have been 311 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: seen from some distance out to sea, So it was 312 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 3: a kind of it was a kind of beacon to 313 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 3: welcome boats into the hear but as well as a 314 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 3: symbol of yes, look we can stand up to ourselves 315 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 3: against the against the Macedonians, even if it was our 316 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 3: friends the Egyptians who helped us on this one. 317 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: Now, one of the big mysteries with the Colossus of Roads, 318 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: as you discuss and this is there's similar mysteries with 319 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 1: with other of the ancient wonders concerns that the location. 320 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: So we don't know exactly where the Colossus of Roads 321 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: stood right right exactly. 322 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 3: We don't. We don't have any fragments of it. We 323 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 3: don't we haven't actually found where the metal was cast, 324 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 3: which would actually probably be something easier to find than 325 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 3: the than the fragments of the statue itself, because you know, 326 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 3: an old factory is something that nobody particularly wants, so 327 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 3: you should be left remains of it. And it's a 328 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 3: bit of a mystery as to why we've never actually 329 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 3: found anything of where it was. But there's something that 330 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 3: is clear is that there's an image which is endlessly 331 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 3: recycled of the Colossos straddling the harbor as this giant 332 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 3: statue with his legs apart and ships sailing happily between 333 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 3: his legs. Well, there is absolutely no suggestion that that 334 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 3: was correct. It's completely the fantasy of a sixteenth century illustrator. 335 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 3: But I think because of the power of the illustration, 336 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 3: it's a bad idea that you just can't get rid of. 337 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 3: It would have been technically impossible to actually build a 338 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 3: statue with the legs apart like that. And also if 339 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 3: the statue was thirty three meters high, it's one hundred 340 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 3: feet high including this spear and torch, then the crotch 341 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 3: would have only been at about thirty five feet And 342 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 3: it's supposed to straddle the military harbor, and none of 343 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 3: the military boats of navy boats could have got in 344 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: because it would have been too small. So there is 345 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 3: no way it stood like that. It's much more likely 346 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 3: that it stood on a low mound near the edge 347 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: of the harbor, that's to say, between the current harbor 348 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 3: which still exists and the city itself. In fact, the 349 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 3: place where we think it stood is actually covered by 350 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 3: the Palace of the Crusader Knights, which was erected essentially 351 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 3: in medieval times, although what you see now is essentially 352 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 3: a modern reconstruction because when Roads was part of the 353 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 3: part of Italy, briefly during Missolini's time, it was reconstructed 354 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 3: as a palace for Mussolini, so unfortunately that's what happened now. 355 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: So there are certain advantages being near the harbor like this. 356 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 3: First of all, it was on a low hill, so 357 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 3: so it was more it was visible from further out. 358 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 3: It was also useful for shipments of metal coming in 359 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 3: because they had a lot of weight of metal, and 360 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 3: being naturally harbor, they could store it there. They could 361 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 3: have put workshops very easily around the harbor itself, and 362 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 3: perhaps the old seage engine was nearby, so they had 363 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 3: plenty of space for construction. And also it was far 364 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 3: from the corrosive effects of sea spray, because sea spray 365 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: obviously creates bronze very readily. 366 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: Now you mentioned the of course, you mentioned that the 367 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: stance of the statue and how we think that it 368 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: was likely legs together as opposed to the legs apart. 369 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: That is a fantasy of illustration. One thing I kept 370 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: wondering about reading the chapter is that a lot of 371 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,479 Speaker 1: us still have that vision stuck in our minds when 372 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: we just think of the Colossus of Rhodes, this huge 373 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: metal colosses, you know, straddling the bay right up there, 374 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: you know, next to the water, and we think of that, 375 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: and we think, well, that just sounds audacious. Of course 376 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: it fell down because we don't have I don't see 377 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: statues like that in the world today. You know, why 378 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: would they be able to get away with it back then? 379 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: And I was just wondering, if do you think that 380 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: these sorts of images in this line of thinking, does 381 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: it make us sort of take for granted the skill 382 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: that they would have had in constructing it, Like how 383 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: you mentioned that this was basically a larger version of 384 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: statues that they were already building. So was it truly 385 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: on an audacious project or was it maybe not as 386 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: audacious as we might think? 387 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 3: Oh? I think it was definitely audacious. I mean it 388 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: really was considerably bigger, probably two or three times bigger 389 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 3: than anything they'd constructed before. And remember that it was 390 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 3: a very impressive construction and it was much imitated afterwards. 391 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 3: There were other statues of this size that were built. 392 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 3: One of them will come into the story a little 393 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: bit later, but it was the Colossos of Nera that 394 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 3: was built at Rome, and it was constructed next to 395 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 3: the Flavian Amphitheater, which most people, of course know as 396 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 3: the Colosseum, and the Colisseum was not named because it 397 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 3: was colossal. It was named for the colossal statue of 398 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 3: Nero that stood nearby. But the problem always with large 399 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 3: constructions in an area like roads, which is particularly susceptible 400 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 3: to earthquakes, is that it collapsed. It collapsed, in fact, 401 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 3: only sixty years after it was finished, in two twenty six. 402 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 3: So the problem was that there was an earthquake that 403 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 3: was not perhaps by a Roodian stands a very big earthquake, 404 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 3: but the land went down by one meter. And the 405 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: problem was that the wealth of Roads essentially was derived 406 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 3: from its trading activity, and the harbor went down one meter. 407 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 3: So all the key our underwater, the military ship sheds 408 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 3: where they stored the boats. Because boats were the military 409 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 3: boats were always hauled out of the water except when 410 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 3: they were needed. They were all submerged, and this international 411 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 3: trading hub just simply collapsed to that point. And there 412 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 3: were many cities which needed that trade, including Egypt, and 413 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 3: so there was a kind of international effort to try 414 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 3: and help roads and re establish the trade. So it 415 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 3: was not entirely altruistic that they were doing it. For instance, Egypt, 416 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 3: we know they offered ninety tons of bronze works, workmen 417 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 3: and money to restore the harbor and the statue. Now 418 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 3: we don't know if it was accepted immediately or accepted 419 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 3: at all. What we do know is that the Rhodians 420 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 3: consulted the Oracle of Delphi, who said, do not rebuild. Now. 421 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 3: I probably think that the Oracle of Delphi was a 422 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 3: bit like modern management consulting companies consult them to consolidate 423 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 3: the idea that they've already had in their mind. But 424 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 3: whether they did or did not accept the Obgyptian offer 425 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 3: is unclear. But the story that has followed on from 426 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 3: that was that the remains of the statue lay on 427 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 3: the ground for nine hundred years. Nobody stole any of 428 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 3: it until the Arabs invaded and sold off the money 429 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 3: to a Jewish trader who hauled it away on one 430 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five camels. This story seems extremely unlikely. 431 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 3: I can't imagine anywhere in the ancient world where you 432 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 3: could have that amount of metal, the amount of wealth 433 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 3: in a big pile sitting around for nine hundred years 434 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 3: without anybody stealing it. But that's become again, it's the 435 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 3: story that's off to repeat it. But there's another possibility. 436 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 3: There was a Roman historian called Eusebius writing in three 437 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: hundred and eleven CE, and he it's it's a kind 438 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 3: of chronicle year by year that he describes, and for 439 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 3: about four times he describes in this kind of year 440 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 3: by year listing that the Colossos was rebuilt. The problem 441 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 3: is that we don't know whether he's talking about the 442 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 3: Colossus of Rhodes or the Colossus of Nero, because he 443 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 3: was actually based in Rome, so hence the problem. But 444 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 3: of course, if you could have restored the Colossos of Nero, 445 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 3: which was almost exact copy of the Colossos of Roads, 446 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 3: except of course with Near's head on the top, if 447 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 3: you could restore that one, then you could restore the 448 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 3: Colossos of Roads too. So it seems quite likely that 449 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 3: many of the Roman emperors did in fact restore the 450 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 3: colossos and in fact, it may have been rebuilt two 451 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 3: or three times. Whether it was built in exactly the 452 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 3: same form rebuilt, we don't know, and we don't know 453 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 3: how much of the damage was. But I imagine that 454 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 3: the corrosion, probably of the statue with an iron core 455 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 3: and a bronze exterior, would have corroded quite readily, and 456 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 3: so even relatively small earthquakes would have certainly damaged it 457 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 3: partly brought it down. So I like to think that 458 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 3: that Ucbius was probably right and that it was actually restored, 459 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 3: because it certainly was something that was incredibly important in 460 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 3: people's consciousness, and Roman emperors did sometimes do these kind 461 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 3: of altruistic moves just to re establish their power too. 462 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 3: So which case, when did it finally fall and was 463 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 3: not restored, Well, probably one forty two CE, so this 464 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 3: is like four hundred years after it was built. There 465 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 3: was a huge earthquake in Rhods. Now we know about 466 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: this earthquake because the land was uplift did by four 467 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 3: point eight meters that's what fourteen feet, And imagine that 468 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 3: the size of an earthquake needed to push the land 469 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 3: up fourteen feet, and we know how much the land 470 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 3: went up and when that happened from looking at sea 471 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: level notches along the northeast coast of Roads. Now, the Mediterranean, 472 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 3: as most people know, has very little tide, so when 473 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 3: the waves hit on cliffs, they create a notch, they 474 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 3: rode away the cliff at a level, and they create 475 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 3: a platform because there's century no tide, so the waves 476 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 3: are always attacking the same level. So during an earthquake, 477 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 3: the land will move up or down. In this case, 478 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 3: it moved up, and we have the old kind of notch. 479 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 3: The old sea level is still visible and those that 480 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 3: visit Roads City, Northern Roads can still see these things 481 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 3: along all the beaches. This this old notch up on 482 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 3: it so and it gives you the whole history of it. 483 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 3: And it certainly was a gigantic earthquake. The trade must 484 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 3: have completely been eliminated. The harbor was just kind of 485 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 3: wiped out. It was. It would have taken a tremendous it. 486 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 3: It did take a tremendous amount of effort to re 487 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 3: establish trade. But if the colossus fell at that point, 488 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 3: it probably was not restored simply because there were so 489 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 3: many other things to do well after such a huge earthquake. 490 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 3: The distraction of the city would have been almost total, 491 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 3: as well as all all the buildings and the rest 492 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 3: of it. 493 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: Now, in the last chapter of the book, you discuss 494 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: the idea of reconstructing modern replicas of the Seven Wonders, 495 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: which which I thought was a wonderful way to round 496 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: out the book, especially given you know, the book has 497 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: this has this great focus of lie on geology, often 498 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: bringing up the aspects of the local geology and the 499 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: sourcing of materials for the different Wonders that I'd never 500 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: really considered before. I guess i'd, you know, and often 501 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: focus more on just sort of the historical tidbits. I 502 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: loved all of that, and I love the focus on 503 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: the engineering. So with the Colossus of Roads in particular, 504 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: how colossal of an undertaking, if you will, would it 505 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: be to rebuild it today, and to do it right? 506 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 3: I don't think it would have actually been particularly difficult 507 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 3: to do to rebuild now. I mean, we do have 508 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 3: the Statue of Liberty, which is a little smaller, but 509 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 3: not that much smaller. The Statute of Liberty is built 510 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 3: again on a metal frame. It's made of copper. It's 511 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 3: not bronze. But of course the Statue of Liberty is 512 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 3: not in an earthquake, So whereas Roads, we definitely know 513 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 3: it is. There is a plate tectonic boundary, probably about 514 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 3: ten kilometers south of Roads, where the floor of the 515 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 3: Mediterranean drops down from the kind of platform which Roads 516 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 3: is on right down into the deep ocean. So it's 517 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 3: a place where we regularly get big earthquakes, and like 518 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 3: I said, we can have ones with fourteen feet of displacement, 519 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 3: which is a huge earthquake. So you need to build 520 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 3: an earthquake resistant structure. There certainly are. There's a lot 521 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 3: of expertise in building such structures, especially in places like 522 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 3: Chili where they regularly have very large earthquakes. And I 523 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 3: think the way to do it would be to build 524 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 3: a platform, a metal platform, and isolate it seismically from 525 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 3: the underlying rock. So you would have a slab of concrete, 526 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 3: you'd have rubber blocks, and then on top of that 527 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 3: there would have been a metal frame, and the metal 528 00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 3: frame could be relatively rigid. Then the statue would have 529 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 3: a framework which would be built onto that base. Again, 530 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 3: it would have to have a certain amount of flexibility 531 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 3: so that the amount of vibration that did get transmitted 532 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 3: through there would not make the plates of bronze come 533 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 3: off the framework. They'd have to be carefully to sign 534 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 3: in that way, but I don't think it would be 535 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 3: a particularly big challenge to do. The big challenge would 536 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 3: be that everybody would expect to rebuild it as a 537 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 3: statue straddling the harbor. And so when I've seen pictures 538 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 3: of reconstructions that they're going to do, it's been announced 539 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 3: several times that they're building a reconstruction. It's you know, 540 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 3: often portrayed as straddling the harbor. Now it is actually 541 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 3: a harbor that's used now. So the choice is you 542 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 3: then have to build a much bigger colossos, which I 543 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,439 Speaker 3: think is what they're thinking of doing, one that would 544 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 3: be not one hundred feet high but three hundred feet high. 545 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 3: Then of course it gets to be a little bit 546 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 3: more complicated. But you know, the question is do they 547 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 3: want to rebuild it as something that is somewhat resembles 548 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 3: what it was in antiquity, or do you want it 549 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 3: as a model symbol of roads, in which case it 550 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 3: doesn't have to resemble anything that it did. Did it 551 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 3: look like an antiquity? But it's an interesting problem. It's 552 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 3: more of a political problem than anything else. I mean, 553 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 3: I rather hope that none of it is ever reconstructed, 554 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 3: because I rather like visiting roads, and Roads is a 555 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 3: rather nice place on its own, with that very large 556 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 3: statue in it. 557 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: But the fact that it was there was ever it 558 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: was ever built at all. You know, what what do 559 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: you what does this reveal about like the nature and 560 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: the scope of the original construction and about the place 561 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: of roads in the ancient world. 562 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 3: I think it was it's celebrated. Their worship of Helios, 563 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 3: and Helios is as a Greek odd is somewhat neglected. 564 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 3: I mean, nowhere else in Greece do you find statues 565 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 3: or worship of Helios in any significant So it was 566 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 3: essentially their own kind of personal island god. I mean, 567 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 3: his place of Helios is usually taken by Apollo, who 568 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 3: had a similar kind of responsibilities. Now Helios we always 569 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 3: talk about the sun god. Actually he is not quite that. 570 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,919 Speaker 3: He was the guy in charge of transporting the sun, 571 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 3: so he dragged it on a chariot across the sky 572 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 3: and then kind of pushed it through hades and pulled 573 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 3: it up on the other side. So it was more 574 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 3: of a kind of wagoneer than than a God. But 575 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,919 Speaker 3: you know, every city, every community wants to have its 576 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 3: kind of what was it starchitect a building now and 577 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 3: this was their starchitect building from the third century BC, 578 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 3: and perhaps nothing really has changed. People want to have 579 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 3: a symbol of their town, something they can put on 580 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 3: their coins, something they can use to attract tourists. And 581 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 3: that's what it was at those times, I say, and 582 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 3: not unusual when you look at the other Wonders they 583 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 3: were essentially perhaps partly there to attract tourists too, but 584 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 3: also for worship as well. I mean, the Zeus Statue 585 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 3: of Zeus was certainly a very very important destination for 586 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 3: people to view. The Mausoleum was a similar in that 587 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 3: kind of way, and of course the pyramids still are 588 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 3: the greatest symbol of Egypt. 589 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: Well, Michael, thanks again for coming on the show to 590 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 1: discuss the book again. The title is The Seven Wonders 591 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: of the Ancient World, Science, Engineering, and Technology. I encourage 592 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 1: listeners to check this book out because it has the history, 593 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: it has the mythology, it has the engineering and the geology. 594 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,439 Speaker 3: It's just a treat Well, thank you very much. 595 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: Thanks again to Professor Michael Dennis Higgins for chatting with 596 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: us today. The book again is The Seven Wonders of 597 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: the Ancient World, Science, Engineering, and Technology from Oxford University Press. 598 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: It's available now in hardback and as an ebook. I 599 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: highly recommend it. I think you can love it. If 600 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: you want to listen to other episodes of Stuff to 601 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,720 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind, well just find us in the Stuff 602 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts. 603 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: We have core episodes of the show on Tuesdays and Thursdays, 604 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: listener mails on Mondays, short form artifactural monster fact episodes 605 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,760 Speaker 1: on Wednesdays, and on Fridays. 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