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Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism?

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Speaker 1: It's the patriarchy.

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Speaker 2: Ef and Beast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Hey Jamie, Hey Caitlin. Do you remember when we did

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Speaker 3: Pagentiary on the Patreon aka Matreon.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's one of our themes, one of our one

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Speaker 2: of our worst theme names of all time.

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Speaker 1: I would say, I don't think I ever said it correctly.

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Speaker 1: It's a mouthful.

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Speaker 2: Well, we made the word up, so I say it

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Speaker 2: like I say Owen McGregor like Pagentuary.

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Speaker 3: Sure, for sure. I think it was a good theme,

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Speaker 3: but poorly named. And it just got me thinking that

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Speaker 3: we've done several pageant movies on the show, including today's episode,

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Speaker 3: which we'll get to in a moment. It's true, but well,

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Speaker 3: I get a lot of pageant narratives.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was all leading up to some really

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Speaker 2: elaborate pun No. I've also okay, I've also noticed we've

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Speaker 2: covered a lot of pageant movies. We've done Dropped Dead Gorgeous,

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Speaker 2: We've done Miss Congeniality, We've done oh what was the one.

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Speaker 1: What was the other one we did during Pagentuary.

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Speaker 3: Dumplin Dumplin and Little Miss Sunshine.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah. Wow.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of pageant movies, a lot of which

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Speaker 2: I love, including Ooh, Transition.

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Speaker 1: Wow. The movie we're talking about today. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: Miss June teenth today on the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: But first, who are we? What is the Bechdel Cast? Well, Kaitlyn,

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Speaker 2: why don't you tell us?

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I'm Caitlin Dorante and.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 3: This is our show where we examine movies through an

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Speaker 3: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as a

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Speaker 3: jumping off point. And that, of course, is a media

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Speaker 3: metric sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It first appeared

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Speaker 3: in Alison Bechdel's comic Dix to Watch Out For as.

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Speaker 4: A as a bit.

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Speaker 3: It was a joke, it was a goof, and it

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Speaker 3: now exists as a commonly cited media metric. There are

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Speaker 3: many versions of it. Ours is this, two characters of

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Speaker 3: a marginalized gender have to have names, they have to

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Speaker 3: speak to each other, and that conversation has to be

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Speaker 3: about something other than a man. And we especially like

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Speaker 3: it when it's a nice and meaty conversation, a.

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Speaker 1: Good beefy conva, a big.

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Speaker 3: Beefy burgher of a conversation.

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Speaker 2: No waiters with a name tag saying would you like

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Speaker 2: fries with that yes doesn't count. We've grown past it. Also,

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Speaker 2: the show's about a lot more than that, as we're

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Speaker 2: about to get into. I still love all these years

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Speaker 2: later when people are lying to our faces about listening

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Speaker 2: to the show, which is fine, you don't have to

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Speaker 2: listen to a show, but they're like, oh, yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: the show where you go through every line of dialogue

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Speaker 2: in a movie and try to figure out if it

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Speaker 2: passes that.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, who would listen to that?

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Speaker 2: Look, we named the show seven years ago and we

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Speaker 2: have to live with it, and here we are. Life

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Speaker 2: goes on, and today we have an incredible episode. I

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Speaker 2: feel like this really this brings our pageant movies we've

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Speaker 2: covered over the years.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there's others. Are we missing any?

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Speaker 1: At this point? Have we done every pageant movie?

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Speaker 3: I think there are others that are maybe a bit

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Speaker 3: more like off the beaten path, but as far as

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Speaker 3: like quite mainstream ones because there's a there's one called

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Speaker 3: I think it's called Beautiful that Oh my gosh, what

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Speaker 3: is her name? She is in Goodwill hunting. She's British.

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Speaker 3: Any driver, yes, mini driver. All right, we have to

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Speaker 3: start the show. We can't get into mini driver discourse

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Speaker 3: at this time. But there's that movie about a pageant,

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Speaker 3: and then there's there's there's gotta be others. Anyway, let's

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Speaker 3: get our guests in here.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: She is a TV and film critic for New York

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Speaker 3: Magazine's site Vulture. She lives in Chicago with her boyfriend

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Speaker 3: and four cats, which means thirty two nipples because cats

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Speaker 3: have eight nipple. Well, I'm a genius.

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Speaker 1: And reaction to thirty two nipples.

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Speaker 3: And one of the best compliments she's ever received is

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Speaker 3: from a close friend who called her deliciously vulgar, incredible.

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Speaker 3: It's Angelica Jade Bastion.

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Speaker 4: Hello, I'm so happy to be here. You're a great movie.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be fine. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We cite your work quite frequently on the show, so

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Speaker 3: it's an honor to actually have you here in the flesh.

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Speaker 4: Oh, an honor that is that's kind of lofty. I

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Speaker 4: will try to live up to how I come across

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Speaker 4: up the pace.

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Speaker 1: Well, you are deliciously vulgar. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I do curse a lot more in person than

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Speaker 4: I do on the page, for obvious reasons. But I'm

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Speaker 4: just like more vulgar in general in person. So when

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Speaker 4: my good friend, who is a contributing writer at The

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Speaker 4: New Yorker and the teacher in the English department at Northwestern,

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Speaker 4: Laura Michelle Jackson, told me that on a friend trip

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Speaker 4: in Sagatuck, Michigan, over a board game, I was so touched.

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Speaker 4: I was like, that is such an amazing compliment. And

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I got to use this in

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Speaker 4: my bio. I need motherfuckers to know I'm deliciously vulgar.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear more.

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Speaker 2: And they are indeed motherfuckers. It's part of the deliciously vulgar.

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Speaker 4: Experience, exactly when you get it.

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Speaker 1: So well, we're so stuck to have you here.

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Speaker 3: Truly tell us your relationship with Miss Juneteenth.

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Speaker 4: Well, I ended up, you know, seeing the trailer and

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Speaker 4: hearing about it, and I asked to review it at

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Speaker 4: work when it came out in twenty twenty, and I

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Speaker 4: ended up really loving the movie. I loving its cultural

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Speaker 4: specificity and really having a great time talking to Nicole

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Speaker 4: Bihari for an interview about the film for Vulture as well.

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Speaker 4: But I hadn't seen it since I reviewed it, which

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Speaker 4: isn't out of the norm. A lot of times I'll

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Speaker 4: review something and then just kind of move on because

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Speaker 4: there's so much I want to watch, so much I

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Speaker 4: want to see an experience. So it was really nice

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Speaker 4: revisiting the film for this podcast, you know, a few

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Speaker 4: years later, and I was like, yeah, this is still

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Speaker 4: a really great, touching, moving film. That's a simple story

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Speaker 4: well told, is how i'd put it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you're, of course referring to the piece you

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Speaker 3: wrote for Vulture entitled Miss Juneteenth is a gently beautiful

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Speaker 3: film worth celebrating, which is a really wonderful piece. We

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Speaker 3: recommend our listeners check it out nice as a companion

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Speaker 3: piece to this episode.

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Speaker 1: Wow, companion piece deliciously vulgar. Actually, I wouldn't say that

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Speaker 1: that one is vulgar. It's a gentle, lovely piece.

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Speaker 4: It's very gently lovely piece. But if you want something

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Speaker 4: on the more vulgar side, please I did write about

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Speaker 4: Dead Ringers through the lens of Rachel Weiss's performance and

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Speaker 4: I use the word cunt twice in my lead.

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Speaker 1: So wow, truly, I haven't read that yet. That's exciting.

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Speaker 4: I hope you have a fun time with it. I

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Speaker 4: had a really fun time writing nice.

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Speaker 2: I read visit your Kuella essay oft I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: think of like my anyways, big fan.

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Speaker 4: No, that's funny you mentioned Kruella. My boyfriend and I

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Speaker 4: were talking about it the other day and I was like, man,

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Speaker 4: the headline for that was like, really good. It was

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Speaker 4: Kruella is the girl bossification of the mad Woman. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: because that whole movie is just a joke to me.

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Speaker 4: It's also like, are we doing a backstory on a

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Speaker 4: villain who wanted to kill puppies? How are you? What

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Speaker 4: are we doing?

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Speaker 1: Puppies killed her parents? It was is that the tech story?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 3: So true?

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, to.

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Speaker 4: Push her mom over, Like at least that's what you

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Speaker 4: she thinks and what you as an audience think till

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Speaker 4: a reveal later on. Yeah, that's why she's like engineered.

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Speaker 4: Woa oh god, yeah that show she's complicated.

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Speaker 2: Ladies, Like, it's absolutely it was like I didn't need

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Speaker 2: more than Glenn Close.

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Speaker 1: Cruella that we should have just stopped. Yeah, train, let's stop.

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Speaker 4: How about that, Let's stop doing the same thing again

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Speaker 4: and again. Let's have more films like Miss June Teeth

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Speaker 4: that are original and at a quiet tenor that's always

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Speaker 4: really nice. Like more quiet, sweet, welcoming movies that are

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Speaker 4: like a warm bath. You know, that's what I.

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Speaker 3: Want, absolutely, Jamie. What's your history relationship with Miss Juneteenth.

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Speaker 2: I had seen the movie once before. I remember hearing

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Speaker 2: about it when it came out, possibly from your work Angelica,

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Speaker 2: and being like, I'm going to see that in theaters.

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Speaker 2: But it was twenty twenty, so I did not indeed

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Speaker 2: see it in theaters. No, I do think that this

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Speaker 2: movie had a long tenure on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: I want to say I.

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Speaker 2: Watched it on streaming in twenty twenty when it was

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Speaker 2: released and thought it was really lovely. Again, it felt

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Speaker 2: we were talking about this a little bit off, Mike,

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Speaker 2: but just I remember the first time I watched it

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Speaker 2: because of sort of what we're conditioned to think about

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Speaker 2: pageant movies, that it's going to be the coming of

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Speaker 2: age story for the person competing in the pageant and

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Speaker 2: not their parent, and I was I remember being like

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Speaker 2: pleasantly taken off guard by Turquoise being the protagonist of

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Speaker 2: this movie.

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Speaker 1: And I just I really.

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Speaker 2: Enjoyed it, and I didn't really have my analysis goggles on.

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Speaker 2: I just liked it, and it was really fun to

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Speaker 2: go back and to experience it again. It's such a good,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't know, this movie just feels so effortless

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Speaker 2: in everything it's doing, and I feel like that's really

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Speaker 2: really really hard to do in a coming of age movie.

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Speaker 2: Even in ones I like, you get these like really

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Speaker 2: overwritten speeches about like and now I have come of age,

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Speaker 2: and which can also be great, but it's just like

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Speaker 2: this movie. Yeah, it just feels so lovely and effortless

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Speaker 2: and I'm excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Kitlyn. What was your history of this movie.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see it until beginning to prep for this episode,

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Speaker 3: so my history with it is very short. But I

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Speaker 3: really like the movie. I tend not to seek out

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Speaker 3: more like character driven stories because I like big, bombastic romps,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: Me, explosions, no Dalmatians killing parents, that's the points exactly.

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Speaker 3: So character study type movies are they can be a

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Speaker 3: little hit or miss for me, but this one's really

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Speaker 3: tender and moving, and I really liked it, and all

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Speaker 3: of the performances are really wonderful, and yeah, it's just

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Speaker 3: a very lovely movie.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, because I mean, so much of the

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty is like a confusing blur to me. I

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Speaker 2: was surprised in rewatching Nicole Bahari's performance that she wasn't

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Speaker 2: nominated for.

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Speaker 1: More like I saw she got like a lot, like

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Speaker 1: she got.

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Speaker 2: Nominated for an Independent Spirit Award. She got nominated for

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Speaker 2: I think, uh or she won a Gotham Award.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, I feel like it shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: stopped there.

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Speaker 2: It's such a beautiful performance, Like I just really and

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Speaker 2: then reading about her process and like researching and going

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Speaker 2: down to Texas and just like meeting people. I just

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Speaker 2: was really, I really fell in love with her in

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Speaker 2: reading about her process and actually like rewatching your performance

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Speaker 2: a couple times.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a shame she wasn't nominated for More, But

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Speaker 4: I think the reason why she wasn't is because it's

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Speaker 4: a great performance whose greatness isn't legible to what award

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Speaker 4: bodies expect from.

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Speaker 1: A great performance, for sure, right, you know.

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Speaker 4: Like I think a lot of times the performances that

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Speaker 4: are praised when it comes to award bodies, especially when

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Speaker 4: you're getting to like the Oscars and stuff like that

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Speaker 4: is often work that makes the quote unquote labor of

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Speaker 4: acting very visible for audiences, so they can see the effort,

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Speaker 4: they can see the choices made, and a lot of

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Speaker 4: times I'm not really a big fan of those kind

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Speaker 4: of performances, Like I think like Kate Blanchett and Tar

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Speaker 4: is an interesting example of that, where it's a culmination

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Speaker 4: of a lot of work she's done, and it's an

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Speaker 4: effort full performance in a lot of ways, which can

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Speaker 4: be really fascinating. I am partially fascinated by that movie

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Speaker 4: and performance, partially frustrated by it. But I think she's

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Speaker 4: an interesting example for what it takes for female actors

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Speaker 4: to gain credibility and award bodies. Also, like they expect

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Speaker 4: a certain kind of performance from black women to gain

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Speaker 4: traction with awards.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's a lot of like pain and tears and

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Speaker 3: like yelling speeches while tears are flowing down the face

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Speaker 3: kind of thing I think is what tends to garner

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Speaker 3: attention for like Oscar nominations, especially when it comes to

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Speaker 3: performances from black women.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it has the Oscars ever nominated a black female

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Speaker 4: performer for a performance that is not rooted in pain?

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Speaker 1: Ooh, not that I can remember. I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: No. I mean because even if you're thinking about Angela

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Speaker 2: Bassett's nomination this last year, like that performed, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it was an incredible performance, but so rooted in grief

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Speaker 2: and pain, and yeah, yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 4: I've legit never thought about it like that, but now

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Speaker 4: I'm like, hmm, that's a little interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, suspect, let's keep our eye on that.

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Speaker 1: I was like, something is not quite right with that, Academy.

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Speaker 4: I wonder what the problem is.

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Speaker 2: But I think that, I mean, part of what makes

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Speaker 2: Nicole bo Harry's performance so amazing. You say in your

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Speaker 2: piece Angelica, of like it's a performance that is just

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Speaker 2: so rooted in like existence and like she's so at

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Speaker 2: home in this character and it's so effortless versus yeah,

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Speaker 2: the effort full. Like I feel like when I think

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Speaker 2: of Academy Award effort, I think of like DiCaprio in

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Speaker 2: The Bear, and you're.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh my god, how bad do you want that

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Speaker 1: damn trophy?

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Speaker 4: Like oh he is, like I will take it all off.

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Speaker 4: I will literally have sex with someone for this trophy.

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Speaker 4: Let me do anything everything, you can have all of

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Speaker 4: me for an oscar, which is fine, you know, if

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Speaker 4: that's what you want to do. But I always find

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Speaker 4: it really interesting the neediness of certain actors with the oscars,

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Speaker 4: Like it's kind of fascinating watching, Like, sometimes it's expected

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Speaker 4: you expect Leonardo DiCaprio to like go like extreme, like

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Speaker 4: put his body through stuff, put his mind through stuff,

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Speaker 4: like be an effortful performer, like I said, But then

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Speaker 4: sometimes you're like looking at like the campaign trail and

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Speaker 4: you're like, for example, I was kind of surprised by

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Speaker 4: how much Colin Ferrell was campaigning, Like I don't think

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Speaker 4: he was being like so needy that is on a

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Speaker 4: DiCaprio level. But he's an actor whose career is interesting

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Speaker 4: because there was a moment, a long moment where he

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Speaker 4: was really trying to be a mainstream almost action y

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Speaker 4: but not quite action y, like you know that didn't

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Speaker 4: they have that total recall remake? Am I like making

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Speaker 4: it up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Would you include his Phone Booth movie to be in

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Speaker 2: that like action part?

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, I was actually thinking of that that movie.

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Speaker 4: But to see him after like all this time where

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Speaker 4: it's like, oh, he's like focusing on character work. He's

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Speaker 4: just in it for the work and the love of

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Speaker 4: the work. To see him like really out there campaigning

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Speaker 4: and I was like, man, y'all are everybody is thirsty?

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Speaker 3: People need validation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I was like, I can relate with that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, when you say it like that, it is like

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Speaker 4: them getting recognized by a body of their peers, and

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Speaker 4: like when you think of it like that, yeah, of

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Speaker 4: course they want to be like they're fucking actor like that.

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Speaker 4: It has like part of the thing.

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Speaker 2: But you do think I feel like Colin Ferrell is

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Speaker 2: like curated. I thought, I think pretty like the cool

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Speaker 2: guy persona much that you're like, oh, he doesn't care

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Speaker 2: about trophies.

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Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, he does does care.

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Speaker 4: He does really care. And it's like, I mean, okay,

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Speaker 4: you had he had a really good year last year.

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Speaker 4: Good for Colin Ferrell.

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Speaker 1: He did good for.

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Speaker 4: Anyway.

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Speaker 2: No, I was like, I've already this is gonna be

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Speaker 2: a great episode of Yeah, I put like that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I guess it does make some unfair sense that Nicole

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Speaker 2: Bahari wasn't more recognized by larger bodies of work.

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Speaker 1: But it's just like I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Now that I've seen this movie twice in the last week,

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Speaker 2: I just am like so blown.

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Speaker 1: Away by her. I want to see her in more stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I read that she was blacklisted for a while after

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Speaker 3: requesting accommodations for an autoimmune disease that she developed during

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Speaker 3: the production of Sleepy Hollow, which is a show I

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Speaker 3: did watch a substantial amount of. But after learning about that,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my gosh, I've learned two things. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like horrifying that she developed an illness during production needed

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Speaker 3: accommodations for that illness. And then mister Hollywood was like, no.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, we're ablest, Like yes, I didn't know that. Wow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because she came out talking about that like

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Speaker 4: after the show was done. And if you watch the show,

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Speaker 4: I thought the first season was really fun and I'm like, Oh,

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Speaker 4: they're gonna build on a relationship, this interracial, cross time,

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Speaker 4: weird relationship between these two characters, and then they don't,

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Speaker 4: and then her character is like, like they really stop

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Speaker 4: giving a fuck about her character in that show, And

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Speaker 4: I was just that was at a like moment in

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Speaker 4: Hollywood history, like right before our conversations about diversity started

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Speaker 4: to like be reawakened, and we're seeing like the studios

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Speaker 4: put more effort into that. Although I think it's craven,

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Speaker 4: it's never altruistic with these studios. These are companies, you know.

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Speaker 4: So it's like really interesting to kind of like look

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Speaker 4: at how her career was affected by that, because I

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Speaker 4: still don't think it's like bounced back despite you know,

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Speaker 4: a great performance in Miss Juneteenth. And it's a shame

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Speaker 4: because I think in a lot of ways audiences, critics

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Speaker 4: people in the industry. Then the industry has really gone

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Speaker 4: dramatically forward in terms of diversity, Like it's been a

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Speaker 4: noticeable difference. And I'm like, look at the like you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna speak from a black perspective, but like look,

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Speaker 4: for example, at the black actors who were kind of

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Speaker 4: slipping through the crack despite being super talented, despite sometimes

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Speaker 4: having like one high profile thing. You would think, oh,

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Speaker 4: like the industry's doing better. Of course, this great performer

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Speaker 4: is gonna have like other opportunities, and that's like not happening.

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Speaker 4: I especially see that with like elder black actors. I'm like,

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Speaker 4: why aren't we seeing like I kind of thought about

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Speaker 4: it with Keith David and Nope, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm glad he showed up in it, but like his

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00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 4: character is important for dying, not for doing anything. And

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Speaker 4: I'm like, I would like to see these older actors

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Speaker 4: get actual work that really lives up to their talents

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Speaker 4: and offers them the kind of work that they wanted

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Speaker 4: for so long. And they've demonstrated their talented but they

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Speaker 4: haven't gotten the consistent work. And I think that's what's

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Speaker 4: really frustrating. We're still seeing there's only a few like

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Speaker 4: directors and actors of color, of marginalized genders, of different

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Speaker 4: presentations and like sexualities and all that stuff, Like they're

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Speaker 4: not getting the consistent work. It's a very small group

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Speaker 4: of people who are getting the consistent work. And because

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Speaker 4: like Hollywood history is so jagged with progress for people

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Speaker 4: of color, you know, it seems like there's more happening

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Speaker 4: than there actually is, and it's easy to forget. Like

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Speaker 4: an actress like Bahari, despite being incredibly talented, and obviously

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Speaker 4: she has an autoimmune disorder, so that can affect you know,

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Speaker 4: what kind of work she's willing to take on, and

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Speaker 4: like what she wants to do but she's still like

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Speaker 4: she can still do like fun character work like.

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Speaker 1: This, and we're just not seeing it. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: speaking to that point.

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Speaker 2: It does feel like, especially with award systems and just

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Speaker 2: larger institutions, and I think areas of the media as well,

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Speaker 2: like there's a tendency to celebrate a moment but not

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Speaker 2: sustain it, or like celebrate a performance and be like

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Speaker 2: this person is back and then they're gone again because

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Speaker 2: there's not the consistent and I feel like that that

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Speaker 2: goes to obviously who's behind the camera as well.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if either of you know.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't able to find anything of the writer director

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Speaker 2: of this movie, Channing Godfrey Peoples.

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Speaker 1: They have, They've released a short film the year.

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Speaker 2: After this, but I don't know that there's been I

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Speaker 2: haven't heard anything from this amazing director.

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Speaker 1: And you're like, it's been three years, why are we

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Speaker 1: giving her stuff?

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Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, yeah, it's a damn shame.

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Speaker 1: It is a damn shame. But let's talk about the movie.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Let's let us take a quick break and then

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Speaker 3: we will come back for the recap. Okay, So here

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Speaker 3: is the synopsis for Miss Juneteenth. The story takes place

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Speaker 3: in Fort Worth, Texas. We meet Turquoise Jones played by

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Speaker 3: Nicole Bahari.

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Speaker 1: She is a.

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Speaker 3: Former winner of her community's Miss Juneteenth pageant. We meet

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Speaker 3: her while she's like taking a trip down memory lane.

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Speaker 3: She's looking at her dress and her tiara. But that

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Speaker 3: was fifteen years ago. Turquoise is now a single mother.

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Speaker 3: She works at a bar. We meet her colleagues at

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Speaker 3: the bar, Betty Ray and the owner, this guy named Wayman.

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Speaker 3: She stops by an autobody shop to get her truck

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Speaker 3: fixed by Ronnie played by Kendrick Sampson.

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Speaker 2: I love Kendrick Sampson. He's very good, Yeah, in everything.

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Speaker 2: He's got such range, and he's so good in this movie. Anyways,

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Speaker 2: all right, that's all I have to stay at this time.

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Speaker 3: So Turquoise is in this like on again, off again

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Speaker 3: relationship with Ronnie, who is also the father of her

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Speaker 3: teenage daughter Kai. Turquoise takes Kai played by Alexis to

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Speaker 3: Keys I'm not sure exactly how to pronounce her last name,

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00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 3: takes her to register for this year's Miss Juneteenth pageant.

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00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 3: We also learn about Juneteenth, which is, of course, the

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Speaker 3: holiday that celebrates the date that slaves in Texas learned

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Speaker 3: they were free on June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five, which

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Speaker 3: was two and a half years after the Emancipation Proclamation.

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Speaker 3: The winner of Miss June teenth receives a scholarship to

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Speaker 3: any historically black college of her choosing. And for this reason,

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Speaker 3: Turquoise is like really pushing for Kai to participate in

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Speaker 3: the pageant, and she really wants this victory for her

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Speaker 3: to have access to this scholarship. But you can tell

437
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: that Kai is not really interested in competing in the pageant.

438
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: She's just doing it to appease her mom, and Kai

439
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 3: would rather join the dance team.

440
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: That's something that really stuck out to me about this

441
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: movie right away, where I feel like the other pageant

442
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 2: movies we've covered.

443
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: Like they make it a joke.

444
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: I know, in Miss Congeniality, it's a consistent joke throughout

445
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 2: the movie that like it's a scholarship, when it's like, no, actually,

446
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 2: we are here to be competitive and to be pretty

447
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah blah blah. And I like that

448
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 2: this movie is like, no, it is for the scholarship.

449
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 1: That's why.

450
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 2: I mean, it's for a lot of reasons, but that

451
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: is a big component of it. I feel like that's

452
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: usually kind of pushed by the wayside or made to

453
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: seem disingenuous in a way. That kind of, yeah, that

454
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 2: I think is sort of meant to illustrate people who

455
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: participate in pageants as frivolous and unimportant.

456
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: So I liked that this movie hit that really clearly, definitely.

457
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: And then so Kai participating in the pageant means that

458
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 3: she needs to keep her grades up and represent herself

459
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 3: well in the community, and it also means a lot

460
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: of costs. There's like buying the gown, there's registration fees,

461
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 3: There's all these expenses. But Turquoise doesn't make a lot

462
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: of money at the bar nor at her second job

463
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 3: at a funeral home. We also meet the owner of

464
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: the funeral home. He's this guy named Bacon played by

465
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 3: Akron Watson, who is openly in love with Turquoise, talks

466
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: about it.

467
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: All the time, has been for a very long time,

468
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: but she.

469
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 3: Is not interested in him at this time. Kai gets

470
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 3: accepted into the pageant, which Turquoise is more excited about

471
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: than Kai is. Turquoise wants her to perform Maya Angelou's

472
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 3: poem Phenomenal Woman as her talent because that's what Turquoise

473
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: did when she was competing in the pageant. However, Kai

474
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 3: wants to dance for her talent, but Turquoise isn't having it. Meanwhile,

475
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: the pageant expenses are starting to pile up. Also, Turquoise's

476
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 3: electricity bill is overdue, so she picks up extra shifts

477
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 3: at work and tries to get her mother, Charlotte played

478
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 3: by Lori Hayes, to watch Kai, but Charlotte refuses. She

479
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: is super religious and wants to like save Turquoise and Kai. Meanwhile,

480
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 3: Ronnie gets arrested for I think shooting an alligator that

481
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 3: attacked him while he was fishing. Yep, yes, I was like,

482
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: is that what happened?

483
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: And that was at that point in the movie. I'm like,

484
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about Texas.

485
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 3: I know, I was like gators I associate with Florida,

486
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 3: but it just goes to show how little I know

487
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 3: about US geography. So anyway, so he gets arrested and

488
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 3: now Turquoise has to bail him out, which is another expense.

489
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 3: Turquoise and Chai celebrate Kai's fifteenth birthday together, though they

490
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 3: have to do so in the dark because the power

491
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 3: has been shut off. Then we see Kai continuing to

492
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 3: prep for the pageant. Turquoise continues to work a bunch

493
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 3: at the bar, although one of her shifts gets cut

494
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 3: short when she discovers her mother. Charlotte is blackout drunk

495
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 3: at the bar, and Turquoise has to take her home

496
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 3: and care for her. Meanwhile, Kai is hanging out with

497
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: her boyfriend. I don't know if we even ever learn

498
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 3: his name. I don't think we do, but some boy

499
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 3: from school. And then Turquoise comes home and catches her

500
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: and reprimands her for sneaking around and having boys over,

501
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 3: and Kai is like, I'm not a kid anymore. Classic

502
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: mother daughter.

503
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 4: Classic thing. A teenager will say, yeah, and it's like yeah, no,

504
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 4: in my mind, you're going to be a kid for

505
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 4: a while. It's okay, okay to be a kid.

506
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so fun to watch.

507
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: Like I just think of like movies I watched when

508
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: I was a teenager, being like yeah, she's right, and

509
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: then like watching it when I'm thirty and being like, no,

510
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: she's no, Yeah she should be home by eleven.

511
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm the latest. I can't or pray for my

512
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 4: kids and whatever. Strictness I won't be moving with.

513
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: Oops you No, I feel I'm like full team mom.

514
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: Oh as long as like, because Turk is.

515
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: An amazing mom, I'm full. Like I'm like, yeah, you

516
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: do have to come home by eleven? Sorry?

517
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, like you're fifteen, Come on now, come on, what

518
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 4: are you even doing? You can't even drink, you can't

519
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 4: even like, what are you doing out there.

520
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: Hanging out learning dance moves? Yeah, and her boyfriend does

521
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: seem very sweet.

522
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: He's supportive, he's writing mixes for her dance choreography.

523
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: It's a very teenager.

524
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, babe, I made you this tape anyway. So

525
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: Turquoise keeps working very hard to pay for all of

526
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: these expenses. She has a conversation with her boss Woymen

527
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: about taking pride and being able to run your own

528
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: thing that no one can take away from you, even

529
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: if it is something like a hole in the wall

530
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: dive bar. Meanwhile, Bacon, the funeral home guy, tells Turquoise

531
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: that he can provide for her and her daughter, and

532
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: he's like really trying to convince her to be with him,

533
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 3: and she's like pass. Then there's a scene where Turquoise

534
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: Mom tries to save her and Kai.

535
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: It's very uncomfortable, like throwing holy water. They're like the

536
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 4: part of the congregation is like in a circle around

537
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 4: Turquoise and Kai and like crying over. It's so uncomfortable,

538
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 4: and it's like, oh, wow, this mother sucks. Yeah.

539
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: Especially, I thought it was so brilliant the way that

540
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: we learn about Turquoise's mom over the course of the movie,

541
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: where we're like, it almost seems like she's presented kind

542
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: of as like a stock character of like very really

543
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 2: just parent, but then you learn that she's struggling with

544
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: addiction and that it's clearly affected the direction of Turquoise's life,

545
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: and then we go back to the religious stuff and

546
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: then you're like, no, like.

547
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 3: Charlotte, it's it's really interesting.

548
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. Yeah, because that like,

549
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: it's so that scene is so claustrophobic.

550
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

551
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And all this to say that things are kind

552
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 3: of falling apart for Turquoise and Kai can see how

553
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 3: difficult her mother has it. Also, the dress rehearsal for

554
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 3: the pageant is coming up, and Ronnie owes Turquoise money

555
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 3: which she needs to pay for the dress, but he

556
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: kind of disappears, so Kai has to do the dress

557
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: rehearsal in her regular clothes, and it's you know, humiliating

558
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 3: for them. Then Wayman, the owner of the bar, has

559
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: a heart attack and is hospitalized. Bake asks Turquoise to

560
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 3: go to a fundraiser party to help with his medical bills,

561
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: and they go and they have a nice time. But

562
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: Ronnie finds out that she went with Bacon, and he

563
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: gets jealous and aggressive and then he storms off, and

564
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: Bacon is like, all right, do you want to be

565
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: with me or not? And Turquoise is like, I thought

566
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: I already made this clear, but no, I just want

567
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 3: something for myself.

568
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: Another great moment, because I feel like a movie that

569
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: came out twenty years ago, that scene probably would have

570
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: gone differently.

571
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

572
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, she probably would have been like, yeah, let's smooch Bacon.

573
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 2: You've worn me down after all these years, right, isn't

574
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: it romantic?

575
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 4: Exactly?

576
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

577
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: But no, She's like, I don't really know what I

578
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 3: want right now, but it's not you, and I need

579
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: to figure out what I want for myself. Then it's

580
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 3: the day of the Miss Juneteenth pageant. Kai wears her

581
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,239
Speaker 3: mother's dress with some alterations. Because they couldn't end up

582
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: affording the eight hundred dollars dress that Turquoise was trying

583
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: to buy. Kai does perform the poem, but she does

584
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 3: it to dance choreography that she's been practicing to music

585
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 3: that her boyfriend mixed for her, and Turquoise isn't sure

586
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: about this at first, but the performance goes well and

587
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: then she's really proud of her daughter. The runners up

588
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 3: and the winner are announced and Kai, in another like

589
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 3: interesting movie subversion, Kai does not win anything, and she's

590
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: upset because she thinks she disappointed her mother. Turquoise is

591
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 3: upset on Kay's behalf for not getting the opportunities that

592
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 3: come with winning, like the scholarship. Then Turquoise apologizes to Kai, saying, oh,

593
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: you know, I've been trying to make you miss June teenth,

594
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: but you're Miss Kai Marie Jones, and I'm.

595
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: Like, oh, then we're crying. We're crying. Great.

596
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: And then the story wraps up with Turquoise putting a

597
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 3: small down payment to buy Wayman's bar because he can't

598
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 3: afford to keep running it with his medical bills, and

599
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: this gives her a chance to have something of her own,

600
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 3: something that she can run, so it's a win win

601
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 3: for both of them. And then the movie ends with

602
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 3: Turquoise and Kai having a nice moment, and then Turquoise

603
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 3: is like, hey, when are those dance team tryouts? And

604
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 3: we're like, yay, she's learning.

605
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: The and.

606
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 3: So let's take another quick break and we'll come back

607
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 3: to discuss, and we're back.

608
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: Where do we want to start and delicate? Is there

609
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: anything that jumps out to you right away?

610
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 4: Yeah? One thing I wanted to call out, and I

611
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 4: mentioned a little earlier, was just the cultural specificity of

612
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 4: miss Juneteenth. I think it's very easy for mainstream media,

613
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 4: film and television in particular, to kind of act like

614
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 4: black people are a monolith and there aren't like some

615
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 4: dramatic cultural differences even amongst people in the South. And

616
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 4: I think a lot about Juneteenth because that is specifically

617
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 4: a Black Texan thing that is not that wasn't like

618
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 4: a popular talking point amongst all black people. It was

619
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 4: very specific to Black Texans, not just Black Southerners, but

620
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 4: Black Texans. And I just love the work the film

621
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 4: puts in to really show the specificity, the importance, the

622
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 4: care that these black folks put into Juneteenth celebrations and

623
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 4: what it means to them. And while I am very

624
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 4: happy to have juamteenth off because white people figure doubt

625
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 4: it was a thing, I do think it's really interesting

626
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 4: how it's become like sort of flatten into oh, yeah,

627
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 4: this is like for all black people, And I'm like,

628
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 4: we can't forget the specific cultural forces at play that

629
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 4: led to Juneteenth existing as a celebration, in Juneteenth becoming

630
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 4: a holiday.

631
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: I don't know.

632
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 4: I have a lot of feelings about how the South

633
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 4: is portrayed and discussed in film and television. Yeah, as

634
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 4: a Southern gal, I'm from born and primarily raised in Miami,

635
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 4: but my family and my maternal family is from rural Louisiana,

636
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 4: and also I have a lot of family in Texas

637
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 4: as well, but Louisiana is kind of like my second home.

638
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 4: Specifically this very small town that if I were to

639
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 4: say the name and you knew it, it would be

640
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 4: weird to me because it's like very, very very small.

641
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 4: But I think what's interesting right now, and like rewatching

642
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 4: misju Teeth, I was thinking about a lot of the

643
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 4: conversations happening about another Southern state, Florida, and everything going

644
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 4: on with its anti gay, anti trans bills, and I

645
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 4: was thinking about the ways that people kind of discount

646
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 4: how many black people are in the South, and it's

647
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 4: just like, oh, yeah, we should just saw off that

648
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 4: part of the country and like move on from it.

649
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 4: And I'm just like, so, we're just gonna leave black

650
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 4: queer people to just kind of what languish, like what?

651
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 4: And it really breaks my heart because there's a lot

652
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 4: of cultural beauty to these places and a lot of

653
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 4: black joy in these places that is being discounted because

654
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 4: of terrible, racist, homophobic monsters. And I just I don't know.

655
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 4: I just want people to, you know, watch movies like

656
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 4: Miss Juneteenth and see the beauty and cultural grips roofs

657
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 4: of the South and understand that the South is worth

658
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 4: fighting for in my mind, but I have family in

659
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 4: the South, so I'm looking at it differently than I

660
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 4: think some people do. But yeah, mister and tenth kind

661
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 4: of brought up a lot of ideas about just the

662
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 4: South where it's at right now, who lives there, who

663
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 4: deserves our care, and sort of the people who slip

664
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 4: through the cracks, because a woman like Turquoise is not

665
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 4: really the lead you get in a lot of films like,

666
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 4: she's working class, she's struggling, she's a single mom, and

667
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 4: the film really recognizes her humanity, and I think it's

668
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 4: our responsibility to recognize the humanity of people struggling in

669
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 4: the South in general.

670
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 3: Definitely, absolutely, And like you point out in your piece,

671
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 3: and I think we've kind of touched on this already,

672
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 3: but the story is quite small scale. You know, it's

673
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 3: about this like pretty specific microcosm of this pageant, and

674
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 3: it's happening over the course of it seems like only

675
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 3: maybe a couple months at most, But it's like it's

676
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 3: such a beautiful story that taps into so much of

677
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: what Turquoise's life is like and what she's dealing with.

678
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 3: And you know, she's a single mom, she's poor, she's

679
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 3: dealing with the attention of a few different men, none

680
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: of them seem like great romantic options for her. She

681
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 3: had to kind of relinquish the opportunity that she did

682
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 3: get by winning Miss June teenth, you know, a decade

683
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 3: and a half prior. I don't think it's ever said

684
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 3: outright in the movie, and maybe this is just my

685
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 3: head canon, but it seemed like she wasn't able to

686
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 3: quote unquote cash in on like the scholarship or the

687
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 3: you know, the opportunities that she uh received by winning,

688
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 3: because she got pregnant with Kai, and so she wasn't

689
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: able to either go to or finish her schooling. You know,

690
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 3: she had to raise her daughter.

691
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 2: And it felt like she implied, and again maybe I'm misreading,

692
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 2: but like she implied that her relationship with her mom

693
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: also made it all the more difficult and kind of

694
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: passion on that and like caring a lot for her

695
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: mom while she was struggling with addiction.

696
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: Definitely, right, So there's you know, all these variables that

697
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 3: kind of prevented her from reaching a certain potential, and

698
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 3: now she's so focused on making sure the same thing

699
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: doesn't happen for her daughter. But it manifests this like

700
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 3: really wonderful relatable story where like she knows what she

701
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 3: wants for her daughter, but she has to learn to

702
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 3: accept what her daughter actually wants for herself, and she

703
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 3: has to figure out what she wants for herself. So

704
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 3: she's like kind of projecting all this stuff onto Kai,

705
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 3: kind of ignoring what Kai clearly wants for Kai, and

706
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 3: also sort of ignoring what Turquoise wants or like what

707
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 3: she should maybe pursue and it's just like this story

708
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 3: of self discovery and like letting go to some extent,

709
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 3: but also like doing your best.

710
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. I think one thing I was thinking about

711
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 4: is the way this country works.

712
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: The way this world works.

713
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 4: If you're struggling in poverty, you do not have the time,

714
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 4: the chance, and the opportunity to really dream, let alone

715
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 4: realize those dreams, which is what makes the ending of

716
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 4: Miss juneteen so beautiful. And while Turquoise is definitely struggling,

717
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 4: I think there are these really beautiful moments of communion

718
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 4: amongst black people, these really moving moments of joy and

719
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 4: just connection. And I would describe Miss June Teeth as

720
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 4: like a lo fi gem. I love, bombastic, gargantuan, monstrous,

721
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 4: you know, money dumped into them kind of movies. I love,

722
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 4: you know, the small movies as well. I love I

723
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 4: just love movies. But you know, watching a lo fi

724
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 4: gem like this is it's really refreshing because it's like

725
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 4: you're kind of stepping into the lives of other people

726
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 4: for a brief period of time. And what makes I

727
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 4: think Miss June Teeth so strong as you get this

728
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 4: feeling of history, you can feel the history that preceded

729
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 4: the movie, and you have a vision of how their

730
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 4: lives will continue afterwards and how different it will be.

731
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 4: And I really like that hopefulness and also that sense

732
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 4: of time, and like you really do feel like you're

733
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 4: just kind of, oh, I'm just stepping into the lives

734
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 4: of these people in this moment of their life, and

735
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 4: they're just living their life. And it's just really nice

736
00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 4: to watch black people just being just like living, no

737
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 4: matter like the circumstances of that life. But like, you know,

738
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 4: I think it's important, and I hate using that word,

739
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 4: but I do think it is important to witness people

740
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 4: of color, queer folks just kind of living and not

741
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 4: having their lives be completely defined by their marginalization. It

742
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 4: can infuse the story, of course it will, but having

743
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 4: so many of these so called diverse stories that we're

744
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 4: getting be so obsessed with the struggle is really.

745
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: Frustrating, absolutely sure.

746
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,720
Speaker 2: And I feel like that goes back to the Oscar

747
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: discussion we were having earlier, where it's like the performances

748
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: that pain is so central to are the ones that

749
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: are uplifted, and it seems like the ones that get

750
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: the institutional backing. I wanted to share a quote from

751
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 2: Channing Godfree People's that sort of speaks to that point.

752
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: This is from when the movie was released. She says,

753
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: I believe the kind of work I want to do

754
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 2: is tell stories about humanity, and especially the humanity of

755
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 2: black folks. When you talk about Charles Burnett's Killer of

756
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: Sheep and My Brother's Wedding, Julie Dash's Daughters of the Dust,

757
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: you get to see black folks in these really natural

758
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: environments with all their subtleties. These are the films where

759
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: you see black folks just be I talked a little

760
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: bit earlier about this authentic community I grew up in.

761
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: It gave me this sense and I could just sit

762
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: in this community and just watch and take it in.

763
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 2: I believe in authentic dialogue. I'm a stickler to stain

764
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: close to the script because I'm showing a community on

765
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: screen that hasn't been seen before. Growing up in this community,

766
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: there's so much that you feel. I love subtlety and

767
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: nuance and finding those tiny human moments. Those are so

768
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 2: important to a character's journey, and those are the moments

769
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: that feel the most real to me, and that comes

770
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: across in every single frame of this movie, and I think, like, yeah,

771
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 2: also connects to what you're talking about Indelica about the

772
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,439
Speaker 2: extreme specificity of this movie. And part of what makes

773
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: it feel so effortless is because this is chanting Godfree

774
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: People's like lived experience and something that she had a

775
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: vested interest in wanting to share with the world as

776
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,959
Speaker 2: a filmmaker. And it just feels, I don't know, every

777
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 2: element of this community feels like you're saying like real,

778
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: like almost like a documentary, like you're just stepping into

779
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 2: this world that doesn't explain itself to you, you just

780
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 2: explore exactly.

781
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

782
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 4: And one thing I want to really call out is

783
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 4: Channing godfre People's like amazing direction. This is like, you know,

784
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 4: witnessing someone's first feature, and it's just like so realized

785
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 4: like this, and you can get across like, oh, this

786
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 4: is their voice. And there's such warmth to both the

787
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 4: direction and the cinematography and such detailing that's really beautiful.

788
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 4: And it's the kind of direction that doesn't call attention

789
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 4: to itself, but it is making very smart choices about

790
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 4: framing and where bodies are in the space that they're inhabiting.

791
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 4: I was really, really taken in by her direction when

792
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 4: I first watched it and rewatching it.

793
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: It's so beautiful and and like there's so many I

794
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 2: don't know on the rewatch of this movie just seeing

795
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: all these because she so fully understands and knows how

796
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: she wants to present the Fort Worth community and this

797
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 2: black community in particular. You get all of these subtleties

798
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 2: of like different kinds of communities within this community. Like

799
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 2: you see the church community and how that affects Turquoise

800
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 2: and Kai. You see the pageant community, which can be

801
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 2: really exclusive and can be extremely judgmental, and you know,

802
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 2: Turquoise is obviously feeling judged by a community that at

803
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 2: one point was really important to her. And then I think,

804
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: like the best of it is you see the community

805
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 2: at the bar, which is like so loving and supportive.

806
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 2: And I always get like emotional when when Woymen has

807
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 2: a heart attack and everyone's like, we have to fix this,

808
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: and we have to fix it by like coming together

809
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: and having a party, and that's how we're going to

810
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: support him through this, and it works, And like, I

811
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 2: just I love that there's so many different worlds within

812
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 2: the world and and it's not you're not like told

813
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: by the movie, like this community is good, this community

814
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: not good. Like you're you just start following Turquoise as

815
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: she navigates it.

816
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 3: It's also interesting to see how she upholds certain standards

817
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 3: that the pageant has, which you know, it can be

818
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 3: pretty rigid. They're pretty what's the word for, when I

819
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: don't know, it's almost like a bourgeois kind of Oh,

820
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 3: you have to like pick up your little It was

821
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 3: a very like Titanic, start from the outside and work

822
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 3: your way in kind of where it's like pick up

823
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 3: your wine glass, pick up your dinner fork, all this

824
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: stuff and not that like Turquoise is like practicing anything

825
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: like that at home. But she again understands how this

826
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 3: opportunity is one of very few, if not the only

827
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 3: opportunity she's going to be able to like provide for

828
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 3: her daughter to get out of this kind of cycle

829
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 3: of poverty. So she's kind of monitoring her daughter's behavior,

830
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 3: who she hangs out with, what she wears, how she speaks.

831
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 3: She's like often correcting her grammar because she kind of

832
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: has to like align with the expectations of the pageant

833
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 3: and the propriety and the femininity and the beauty because

834
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: even though again it's like we've talked about this a

835
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: lot on various Pageant episodes. It's like, yes, this is

836
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 3: a contest to grant a scholarship, But if that is

837
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 3: like the most important part of it, why are the

838
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 3: girls like walking around in these expensive gowns and like

839
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 3: in full make hair and makeup and stuff like that

840
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 3: if it really is about a scholastic thing, Like why

841
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 3: is appearance a factor at all? Kind of thing? But

842
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 3: like Turquoise kind of has no choice but to sort

843
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 3: of uphold those standards. And it's interesting because it's like

844
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 3: some of these movies, like Dumplin was sort of like

845
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 3: about trying to dismantle the pageant industrial complex, yeah, which

846
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 3: is like, you know, that's not what this movie is about.

847
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 3: And it's just like, yeah, Kai is just like trying

848
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 3: to be a regular teenager pursuing her own interests. Her

849
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 3: mother is like trying to open up this door for

850
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 3: this scholarship opportunity. I don't know, It's just like a

851
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 3: lot of interesting things that you're watching the characters navigate

852
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 3: and balance, and like, you know, Kai is doing this

853
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 3: to please her mom even though she clearly doesn't want to.

854
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 3: It's just it's a lot of like interesting again, very

855
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: relatable things to watch unfold, especially front like in a

856
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 3: mother daughter relationship dynamic.

857
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's just so refreshing to watch mother daughter

858
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 4: stories in film because like everything is so obsessed with

859
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 4: father sons.

860
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: We talk about this all the time, or.

861
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 4: Even just father and child slight rant, Like I'm dragging

862
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 4: my feet to watch Picard's season three, which I've heard

863
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 4: is actually good and justifies the show existing. Finally, but

864
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 4: spoiler alert for people they decide to get like that

865
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 4: doctor Beverly Crusher and John Luke Bokard actually have a

866
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 4: kid together, which he didn't know about, right, and of

867
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 4: course it's a son. And I'm like, how many more

868
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 4: father sons do we need in Star Trek.

869
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,919
Speaker 2: Especially because Picard and has mother like there's like there's

870
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 2: a bud. Yes, you don't get a lot of mother

871
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 2: son's stories either, like.

872
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: No, you don't.

873
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 4: You would think that mothers don't have sons or something,

874
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 4: or they do. Mothers die. It's just really frustrating, and

875
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 4: I think miss Jiunteenth is like really good at teasing

876
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 4: out the complications that come between a single mother and

877
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 4: her like only daughter, whether there's other siblings or not,

878
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And I think a lot,

879
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 4: at least speaking personally, a lot of the growth and

880
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 4: work that comes with that relationship, especially if there's like

881
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 4: imbalances for whatever reason, is like the mother coming to

882
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 4: terms with the fact that you can't make your daughter

883
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 4: into the woman you wish you were. You have to

884
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 4: nurture the woman she's becoming. Damn. That was a banger line.

885
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: That is the truth. Cut it printed there.

886
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 2: It's true, And I feel like that is like something

887
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 2: that any daughter of any mother can relate to to

888
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 2: some extent.

889
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: But I don't know, I'm trying to think of an

890
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: example of this.

891
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: It's just done so well and just again like effortlessly

892
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: in this movie where you know that what Turquoise like,

893
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: you understand why Turkose is doing what she's doing, but

894
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 2: you can also clearly see that it's miss guided and

895
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: it's not what her daughter wants or needs right now.

896
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 2: And then you can also see the movie, you know,

897
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: grants Turquoise the grace while like making it not like

898
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 2: you know, tiptoeing around like clearly Kai doesn't want this,

899
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: but you can also see how Turquoise's treatment from her

900
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: own mother informs that, and like, I think that there's

901
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean I can relate with this

902
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 2: in my relationship with my own mom of like my

903
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 2: mom was, you know, deprived of a lot of love

904
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 2: and Adam mother who was struggling with addiction her entire life,

905
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 2: and the relationship was strained, and you know, it's like

906
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: people respond to that experience differently and how it comes out.

907
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: And Turquoise is like a little bit of just like,

908
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 2: I know what's right, this is the opportunity.

909
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: Just trust me.

910
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: Let's get just get through this and you can do

911
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 2: what you want later, which is like a very I

912
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 2: think common thing. And it's not it's not it doesn't

913
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 2: make you a bad parent, but it was interesting watching

914
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: them navigate that kind of together.

915
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just like so thoughtful.

916
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 3: I love it definitely. Some of the most like endearing

917
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 3: and tender moments of the movie is Turquoise and Kai bonding.

918
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 3: For example, the like the cake scene when and a

919
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 3: lot of these moments are like kind of sprinkled with

920
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 3: like the tension that exists between them, the way that

921
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 3: tension is bound to exist between any like teenage kid

922
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 3: and their parent but it's like the cake scene starts

923
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 3: out with Kai is like, I don't know, sitting in

924
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 3: a dark closet on her phone, like probably texting her

925
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 3: boyfriend and clearly like, you know, feeling a certain way

926
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 3: about the power being shut off. And she says something

927
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 3: like it's you know, it's my birthday.

928
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: Can we go out?

929
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 3: And Turquoise can't afford that, but she's already bought this

930
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: cake and she's like, you know, we're gonna celebrate here.

931
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 3: And then they have this fun little like smearing cake

932
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 3: on each other's faces, and it's again like both of

933
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: them trying to like alleviate the tension of this like

934
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 3: situation and these circumstances. And then there's another sweet scene

935
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 3: where Kai is teaching her dad some of her choreography,

936
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 3: and then her mom comes home and she's just like, oh,

937
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: what are you guys even doing? But then she joins

938
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 3: in and like learns some of the dance moves too,

939
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 3: and it's just like these sweet moments that show, yes,

940
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 3: there is tension in this relationship and yes they don't

941
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: always get along, and Kai probably feels a bit suffocated

942
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 3: by all this pressure that Turquoise is projecting onto her,

943
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 3: but they still find these like beautiful moments of levity,

944
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 3: which was just like so wonderful to see.

945
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's a very intimate film. Is a film

946
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 4: that really prizes intimacy between and it's characters, and those

947
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 4: tender moments you're highlighting, I think are really good examples

948
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 4: of that.

949
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 2: I wanted to, Yeah, go over to We've talked about

950
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: it a little bit, but just kind of a comforull

951
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 2: circle on it Turquis's relationship with her mom, Yeah, and

952
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 2: how that is sort of unspooled throughout the course of

953
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:23,240
Speaker 2: the movie.

954
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: I just thought it was so well done. And again,

955
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: just like.

956
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 2: This movie allows its characters to have shades of gray

957
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 2: in this way that feels really unusual, where it's like

958
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 2: Charlotte clearly was not the parent that Turquoise needed, Like

959
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 2: she seems to be kind of, i mean struggling with

960
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 2: addiction in a way that she still seems, you know,

961
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:51,479
Speaker 2: at grandma age, not ready to acknowledge. And that's really

962
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that the performance by Lorie Hayes

963
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 2: is so beautiful and painful because it's you know, you

964
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 2: can be you can hold some anger for Charlotte for

965
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: not being the parent that Turquoise needed, and also see

966
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: that she's been suffering for so much of her life

967
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: and is doing I mean, everyone's doing the best they can,

968
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 2: and she's not able to be there for Turquoise or

969
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 2: Kai in the way they need, and that's just presented

970
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 2: as something that is unfair and sad, which is often

971
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: how having someone in your life struggling with addiction can feel.

972
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 2: And Turquoise is so gentle with her, and it just like,

973
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, that scene got me really emotional. It

974
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: is really hard to watch someone have to navigate that

975
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: situation and also be like, that's my mom, you know,

976
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: like I want the best for this person and they

977
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: cannot show up for me, but I can show up

978
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 2: for them right now.

979
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: And still I like that.

980
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 2: After that, it's not that's not the conclusion of that relationship.

981
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 2: Charlotte doesn't change overnight. She's been this way towards Turquoise

982
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 2: for a long time and is still you know, essentially

983
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,919
Speaker 2: ambushes her and Kai and Turquoise is like this, this

984
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 2: is the line we've found, the line congratulations, which is

985
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 2: sad in some ways because she's severing the relationship with

986
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 2: her mom, at least for now, but I thought it

987
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 2: was really I mean, that's like a really great moment

988
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 2: for her, and you see the kind of spectrum of

989
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 2: what this mother daughter relationship has looked like over the

990
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 2: years in without a lot of time, and it's so

991
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 2: beautifully written. And again just like Nicole Bihar is unbelievable

992
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 2: in the way she performs those scenes. And yeah, I

993
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 2: don't know, it's like a relatively small part of the movie,

994
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 2: but like Turquoise growing up with a parent who was

995
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 2: both suffocating in a different way and struggling with addiction.

996
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 2: I just thought it was like so good. I haven't

997
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 2: seen that relationship done like that many times.

998
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, truly, and it's I mean, Turquoise, the patience she

999
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 3: shows her mom is I don't have that kind of

1000
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 3: patience like It's also it's just it was such an

1001
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 3: interesting We were touching on this as well already, but

1002
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 3: the way that information about the Charlotte character is woven

1003
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 3: into the narrative, where at first it seems like, you know,

1004
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 3: you kind of have a sort of a stock character

1005
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 3: of like the overbearing religious mother. And it came as

1006
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 3: such a surprise to me when she shows up at

1007
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 3: the bar and she's like blackout drunk, and you're like, wait,

1008
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 3: is this the same woman who had just been like

1009
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 3: talking about needing to save her daughter and like wanting

1010
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 3: to bring Turquoise and Kai to church to you.

1011
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: Know, pray.

1012
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 2: And it's such a little detail, but the fact that

1013
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: like there's like a little line from Charlotte saying that

1014
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 2: she didn't think that Turquoise was working tonight, and so

1015
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 2: also that she's still it's an ongoing quest to hide

1016
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 2: her addiction from her daughter and from her family, which

1017
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, so simple and so quick, but definitely hits.

1018
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 3: And prior to that, because I think there are three

1019
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 3: main beats where the Charlotte character is involved. The first

1020
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 3: one is the scene where Turquoise takes Kai to the

1021
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 3: church to meet up with her mom and say, I

1022
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 3: have to work tonight. Can you watch my daughter? And

1023
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 3: Charlotte is like no. She basically says like kind of

1024
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 3: gives an ultimatum like I'll be more involved in both

1025
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 3: of your lives if you accept Jesus into your heart,

1026
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 3: and Turquoise is like, well pass, so never mind. And

1027
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 3: then and then Charlotte says something like really her full

1028
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 3: She's like, well, she's not my daughter, so you know, like, yeah,

1029
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 3: why should I bother in.

1030
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: Front of Kai too? Yeah, it's like, gee horrible.

1031
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 4: Yeah that was a really cuol. It really stuck out

1032
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 4: to me.

1033
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, damn yeah, which, you know, shows the hypocrisy that

1034
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 3: a lot of religious fundamentalist type people tend to display.

1035
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 3: And the hypocrisy keeps going because in the second beat,

1036
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 3: she previously Charlotte was like, oh, you're working at the bar,

1037
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 3: you know, you're doing the devil's work, and then she

1038
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 3: is at this same bar where this quote unquote devil's

1039
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 3: work happens, and she's drinking heavily. And to be clear,

1040
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 3: I'm not casting judgment on alcoholism, but again it's.

1041
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: The hypocrisy element.

1042
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's the hypocrisy for Charlotte to judge Turquoise

1043
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 3: for working at a bar, and then for Charlotte to

1044
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 3: turn around and get drunk at that same bar to

1045
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 3: the point where like her daughter has to bring her

1046
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 3: home and take care of her. And then the third beat,

1047
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 3: Charlotte pretends that never happened and she's in church again,

1048
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 3: and this is the scene where she's trying to you know,

1049
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 3: save Turquoise and Ki and she's continuing to judge Turquoise, Well, what.

1050
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 2: Would really help her is like helping out with Kai,

1051
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 2: like the simple things that Turquoise is.

1052
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: Asking for, right that.

1053
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 3: And then the final beat of all this is Charlotte

1054
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 3: becoming physically abusive to Turquoise, which is like the last

1055
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 3: straw for Turquoise. So yeah, it was just like I

1056
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 3: was fascinated to see it play out the way it does,

1057
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 3: because again, it feels very authentic and realistic in a

1058
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 3: way that relationships like that are not often characterized in

1059
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 3: a way that feels so authentic.

1060
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the things we haven't touched

1061
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 2: on yet is Turquoise's relationship with the men in the story.

1062
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, who wants to start.

1063
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 4: I'm glad she chose herself. We need more stories of

1064
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 4: women being like you know these you know, not to

1065
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 4: say I don't want romance, but these guys aren't right

1066
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 4: for me. I'm just going to live my life. We

1067
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 4: do not have enough stories like that. So many stories

1068
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 4: about women would like end this one very differently. It

1069
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 4: would revolve around her making a choice between Kendrick Sampson's

1070
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 4: character Ronnie and her boss at the funeral home, Bacon.

1071
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 4: But that's not the story that you know, Channing Godfrey

1072
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 4: People's is smart enough to understand, like that's not really

1073
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 4: authentic to Turquoise's story or what this character needs, which

1074
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 4: is to figure out things on her own, like to

1075
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 4: really figure out, like what do I want for myself

1076
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 4: and for my daughter in a way that is holistic

1077
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 4: and recognizes her own desires and the desires.

1078
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: Of her daughter.

1079
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 4: I think neither of them are bad guys, which I like.

1080
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 4: I like that, you know, they have their faults obviously. Ronnie,

1081
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 4: I think specifically decided to use the money for the

1082
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 4: dress for something else because there's that moment in the bedroom,

1083
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 4: right and they're having a conversation or like they're having

1084
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 4: a conversation. At some point he's like, oh, but someone

1085
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 4: is like selling their like whatever, and like, you know,

1086
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 4: this could lead to me opening up my own kind

1087
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 4: of car shop business or whatever, and like Turquoise is like, uh,

1088
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 4: you gotta be And it's just like they're not. Neither

1089
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 4: of them are bad people, even though I feel like

1090
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 4: Ronnie doesn't. I mean, doing something like that with the

1091
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 4: money shows, in my opinion, a little bit of a

1092
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 4: lack of respect and understanding, right, Yeah, And then Bacon

1093
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 4: is so obsessed with whatever image in his head he

1094
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 4: has of turquoise. He refuses to acknowledge that she's not

1095
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 4: interested in him, and like she does not need him

1096
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 4: to solve her problems, like she didn't do that on

1097
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 4: her own. Yeah, come on, Bacon, Like dude.

1098
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 2: There are times it's just yeah, it feels it's so

1099
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 2: funny because I feel like Bacon in some ways presents

1100
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 2: himself is like I'm the mature option, but he's acting

1101
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 2: like a teenager in the way that he talks to her,

1102
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 2: where he's like someday, it's like it just feels very like,

1103
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's a little bit of an entitlement there,

1104
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 2: but it's just like also emotionally immature, the way that

1105
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 2: he's like, well, sure you're not interested now, and you were,

1106
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 2: you haven't been interested for fifteen years, but one of

1107
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 2: these days.

1108
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 3: They just open your eyes and see me. And it's like, no,

1109
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 3: if it hasn't happened yet, Uh sorry Bacon, but uh.

1110
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 2: And it doesn't make him a bad guy, like like

1111
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: you're saying in dacol Like in the same way, it's

1112
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 2: like Ronnie again is like one of the one of

1113
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: the people who cannot show up for Turquoise and Kai

1114
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 2: in the way that they need. But you can also

1115
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: tell that he very like he loves his daughter, and

1116
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 2: he's not made out to be a bad person or

1117
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 2: anything like that. He's made out to be someone who

1118
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,919
Speaker 2: is who. I think that like the main I guess

1119
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 2: flaw of his that stood out to me. She kind

1120
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 2: of just said in Talco was like that he sort

1121
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 2: of undercut the amount of work that Turquoise had done

1122
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 2: in raising their daughter. It doesn't mean he doesn't love

1123
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 2: his daughter, but he like there's a few different times

1124
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 2: where he sort of just says.

1125
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: Like, well, you'll figure it out.

1126
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 2: You always do, and it's like, well, she shouldn't have to,

1127
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 2: like if you did what you said you were gonna do.

1128
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 2: And but again, it just feel it feels like a

1129
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: person that you've met before in all the like messiness

1130
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 2: that people can be. And also that like Turquoise, I

1131
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 2: don't know, I felt for her in the way that

1132
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 2: it's like she's still clearly attracted to Ronnie and like

1133
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: has love for him, and it seems like to me,

1134
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 2: again I'm like probably projecting all over the movie, but

1135
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 2: like that like she always is like holding out hope

1136
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 2: that he's gonna show up in the way that she

1137
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 2: needs him to, but like nose deep down, he probably

1138
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 2: won't because she is usually prepared for Ronnie to not

1139
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 2: show up in the way that she needs him to,

1140
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 2: but still has love for him, and like that's a

1141
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 2: that's a you know, also very different, painful dynamic to

1142
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 2: be in that I feel like you don't see presented

1143
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 2: in that way of like they're not a bad person,

1144
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,439
Speaker 2: but they can't do what I need, and so it's

1145
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 2: like I have to walk away. And yeah, she chooses herself.

1146
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 2: There's so few examples of that. Yeah, and that we

1147
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 2: get her happy ending, and it makes sense, Like I

1148
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 2: feel like sometimes you'll get like if a character chooses themselves,

1149
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 2: it requires this like disx machina writing to be like

1150
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 2: and then this amazing coincidence happened, so they'll be fine.

1151
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 2: But it's like no Turquoise had, you know, was able

1152
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 2: to make it happen for herself, and her buying the

1153
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 2: bar was her idea, and it was an idea that

1154
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 2: was like supported by her community at the bar and

1155
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 2: like worked out in a way that felt very very

1156
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 2: real and still optimistic and happy ending.

1157
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 3: I just hope she gets better tips than a quarter.

1158
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: Moving forward.

1159
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 3: That one guy is like a little something for you,

1160
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 3: and his tip is twenty five cents, right, yeah.

1161
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, what am I supposed to do with that? I

1162
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 4: can even buy bubble gum with that?

1163
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: Like what in this economy? What?

1164
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 4: Yeah? This twenty five cents? Even, Like what is that?

1165
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: What is it?

1166
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 4: You might as well give me a penny?

1167
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: Thanks?

1168
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the men. It's like what she wants from Ronnie

1169
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 3: is to be more reliable, and with that probably comes

1170
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 3: from like financial stability, which is what Bacon has and

1171
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,439
Speaker 3: is offering. But she has no romantic feelings for him,

1172
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 3: it seems, and Ronnie she does. But again, he's not reliable.

1173
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 3: He might have a gambling problem. It's kind of suggested.

1174
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 3: He also brings Ki into that situation where like, oh,

1175
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 3: some people start like brawling in front and she's like

1176
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 3: visibly getting frightened and he's like, no, it's all good.

1177
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 3: And it's like you shouldn't be bringing a teenager into

1178
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 3: a scenario like that. That's potentially very dangerous. So like,

1179
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 3: you know, he's making some choices, but again, like this

1180
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 3: is a movie where people are making mistakes constantly and

1181
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 3: it's just a matter of who is going to learn

1182
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 3: from their mistakes, who is going to grow, And I'm

1183
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 3: glad that we're focusing on a character who demonstrates so

1184
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 3: much growth by the end, Like Turquoise is like you

1185
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 3: see it with her finally acknowledging that her daughter wants

1186
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 3: to dance and saying like when are the dance tryouts?

1187
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 3: She realizes that to be able to kind of have

1188
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 3: any autonomy over her finances and job is to like

1189
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 3: just take it. And it's a huge step and it's

1190
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,719
Speaker 3: a gamble, but it feels right, and so she buys

1191
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 3: the bar. And I like that scene where Wayman is

1192
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 3: Turquoise is talking about the American dream and he's like,

1193
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 3: there is no American dream for black folks. Like whatever

1194
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 3: you have, that's yours, like cling to for dear life,

1195
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 3: and people are going to try to take it away

1196
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 3: from you. But like for so many of us, that's

1197
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 3: the best we can hope for. And now she does

1198
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 3: have that, she has like her own things. She's gonna

1199
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 3: and she's gonna fix that. Damn the stall in the bathroom,

1200
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 3: the door on the cooler, and I'm just like, I

1201
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 3: almost wish we got like a scene a few months

1202
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 3: down the road where she had like made some slight

1203
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 3: adjustments to the bar to like make it a little

1204
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 3: more pleasant.

1205
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 4: To work out.

1206
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 3: But yeah, sorry, I'm just like rambling, but it's just

1207
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 3: such a nice story with such wonderful character characters is

1208
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:01,520
Speaker 3: individuals and then like character dynamics.

1209
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:06,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, we explore. Is there anything else anyone else wanted

1210
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: to touch on?

1211
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 4: I hope Channing Godfrey People's announces another Reilson that is

1212
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 4: like my main thing right now.

1213
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 2: So I did a little bit of googling while we've

1214
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 2: been talking, and it seems as if in twenty twenty one,

1215
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 2: but again, that's over two years ago she started work

1216
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 2: on a TV adaptation of Miss Juneteenth. But I haven't

1217
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 2: been able to find much outside of that announcement that would.

1218
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 1: Be really cool.

1219
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 2: I was like, I mean, that would possibly give Caitlin

1220
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 2: what you were just talking about, like a more a

1221
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 2: deeper look at this world or a longer timeline or

1222
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 2: whatever that looks like to her. I mean, I hope

1223
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 2: that that happens. But it was announced, you know, two

1224
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 2: and a half years ago now, and I haven't seen

1225
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 2: an update. Fingers across, I don't know. I mean, yeah,

1226
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 2: I just I would I would watch anything that she

1227
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 2: releases really like, yeah, and I really love I mean,

1228
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 2: I love just in general, when directors and writers.

1229
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 1: Have a vested interest in a location. I just love that.

1230
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 2: And it seems like she wants to continue to set

1231
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 2: a lot of her work in Fort Worth and in

1232
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 2: the South and in like small communities, and it's like

1233
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 2: some of my favorite stuff.

1234
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 1: I really I hope we see more from her sand same. Yeah.

1235
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:26,919
Speaker 3: And then the last thing I wanted to just briefly

1236
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 3: touch on was that there are a few allusions to

1237
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 3: the fact that Turquois used to be a stripper. Oh yes,

1238
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 3: it doesn't seem like she's ashamed about it. She is

1239
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 3: somewhat secretive about it, But to me, it felt like

1240
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 3: she was kind of like keeping it on the down

1241
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 3: low to like keep up appearances because of the the

1242
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 3: propriety and the etiquette that the pageant is so concerned with, like,

1243
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 3: you know, Kai and her family have to be you know,

1244
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 3: quote unquote model citizens sort of. But when Ky learns

1245
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 3: about this and she confronts her mother, Turquoise is just like,

1246
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 3: I'm not sorry for being able to put food on

1247
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 3: the table, and she kind of implies that she did

1248
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 3: this out of desperation, which, like you could argue, is

1249
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 3: like sort of shamy of sex work. But also again

1250
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 3: it's just like she's not This isn't some like dark

1251
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 3: secret that she's holding on to. It's more like, I

1252
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 3: did what I had to do. It wasn't ideal for me.

1253
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 3: I wish I didn't have to do that, but I'm

1254
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 3: trying to make sure that you if that's not something

1255
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 3: you want to do in your future, like I'm trying

1256
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 3: to provide other paths for you.

1257
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it.

1258
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 2: Didn't strike me as shamey towards sex work. I think

1259
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 2: that it was like it felt like in the moments

1260
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,839
Speaker 2: it came out, it felt to me more like Turquoise

1261
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 2: was trying to navigate the stigma she's aware it has,

1262
01:12:56,160 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 2: and also just like acknowledging that that was not what

1263
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 2: she wanted her end game job to be in a

1264
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:07,680
Speaker 2: way that didn't seem like it was cruel or dismissive

1265
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 2: of people who do want to be strippers for a

1266
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 2: long time and like really loved that job, it wasn't

1267
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 2: a job that she loved.

1268
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: And also I.

1269
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 2: Think I don't know, it didn't really ping for me

1270
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 2: as a shaming moment.

1271
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, same, Yeah, same. I thought that was a very

1272
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 4: revealing moment about like the boundaries and dynamics between Turquoise

1273
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 4: and Kai, and like how Kai looks at her mother,

1274
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 4: and like there were moments watching it where I like

1275
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,479
Speaker 4: so felt for Kai because I've like been in her

1276
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 4: place where you're just like dealing with such tension with

1277
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 4: your mother. But then I think, like, you know, the

1278
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 4: parent child relationship, often it takes a very long time

1279
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 4: for children to recognize like, oh, my parent is just

1280
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 4: a person. They lived this whole life before me and

1281
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 4: even since they've had me that I'm not going to

1282
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 4: know everything about. And I think that's like what that

1283
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 4: moment is kind of touching on, like the parts of

1284
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,640
Speaker 4: your parents you don't really know. And I think for

1285
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 4: Kai it was like, oh wait, there's a lot about

1286
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:16,719
Speaker 4: my mom I don't realize, and how much she works

1287
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 4: and tries to figure things out for me. And I

1288
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 4: think the way Channing Godfrey People's Rights and directs that

1289
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,680
Speaker 4: moment is really sharp in its understanding of the characters,

1290
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:31,639
Speaker 4: and it's like a closer shot of both of them

1291
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,680
Speaker 4: and like you can kind of it's really just smart

1292
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 4: character work in terms of framing and like giving these

1293
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 4: performances room to breathe in a way that can reveal

1294
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 4: further layers about such a moment. I really, yeah, I

1295
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:46,919
Speaker 4: thought that moment was really interesting.

1296
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 1: That's right. I also felt something.

1297
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't exactly I mean, it thankfully doesn't

1298
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 2: exactly mirror the scene between Turquoise and Charlotte when Charlotte

1299
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 2: needs to be taken care of and needs to be

1300
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 2: taken out at the bar, But I feel like that

1301
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:03,719
Speaker 2: is the moment where Turquis is very much the child

1302
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 2: and is like, my mom needs me to be this

1303
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 2: person for her right now, this is what I'm going

1304
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 2: to do. You sort of see that in the moment

1305
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 2: with Kai and the birthday cake, where she's frustrated that

1306
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 2: the power has been turned off, like this is not

1307
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 2: the birthday she wants. She's we know she's disappointed about it,

1308
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 2: but you can sort of see her make the decision

1309
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 2: of like I'm going to go with this because my

1310
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 2: mom needs me to do this right now for her,

1311
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 2: of like, you know, Turquis just needed her to take

1312
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 2: the cake and be happy and like even perform like

1313
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 2: happiness in this really difficult moment for both of them,

1314
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,599
Speaker 2: and it's so I feel like that's such a such

1315
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 2: a part of like becoming an adult, of like recognizing

1316
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 2: those moments and even when it's painful, like Kai true,

1317
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 2: I mean, and not so much of why she's doing

1318
01:15:56,320 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 2: the pageant in the first place. And then over the

1319
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 2: course of the movie, even though Kai is not the

1320
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 2: main character of the movie, like learns to draw her

1321
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 2: boundaries with her mother of like this is what I'm

1322
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 2: able to give you, and you need to meet me

1323
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 2: where I'm at too. But I really liked that just

1324
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 2: like really subtle performance moment between them where they just

1325
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 2: both have to they both decide like the power isn't

1326
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 2: on and that has to be okay, and it's still

1327
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:25,759
Speaker 2: a birthday, and it's.

1328
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: Just like such a yeah.

1329
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 2: Again, it's like the combination of the writing and how

1330
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:35,639
Speaker 2: subtle and great both performances are that makes me cry.

1331
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 1: It's really nice, beautiful. This movie obviously passes the Bechdel test.

1332
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:41,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think we really need to talk

1333
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 1: on you. Most of it does.

1334
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, so onto our nipple scale.

1335
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 1: Where other ill fated title No, it's perfect.

1336
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 3: Where we rate the movie on a scale of zero

1337
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:05,720
Speaker 3: to five nipples based on examining the movie through an

1338
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 3: intersectional feminist lens. This is a rare moment on the

1339
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast because we're usually dolling out one nipple for

1340
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 3: a movie. I'm going to give five nipples yea to Missjuneteenth.

1341
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:25,920
Speaker 3: I really can't think of anything to criticize about it

1342
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 3: from an intersectional lens. I think it's just really beautiful

1343
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:36,680
Speaker 3: in the way that it handles the story, the characters,

1344
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 3: their relationships, the balance between showing the things that they're

1345
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 3: dealing with the things that they're struggling with in kind

1346
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 3: of balancing that with moments of love and levity and joy.

1347
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 3: And I love the realism of it all, the fact

1348
01:17:56,160 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 3: that the movie had the guts to not award Kai

1349
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 3: with like one of the runners up or the Queen,

1350
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 3: like because every other movie would have been like and

1351
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 3: she won because she pulled out all the stops and

1352
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 3: did this.

1353
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:15,720
Speaker 2: It possesses the bravery of School of Rock in that way. Yeah,

1354
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 2: I love I love when the main character doesn't get

1355
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 2: the prize. It's always like a more rewarding viewing experience.

1356
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, because what's more important is like the lessons they

1357
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 3: learned along the way, and sure would it have been

1358
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 3: nice if she did get the scholarship. Yes, But also,

1359
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 3: as Kai points out, like if I join the dance team,

1360
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 3: I can get a scholarship through that, and that's actually

1361
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 3: what I want to pursue. And even though there's not

1362
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 3: like that big victory at the end, things definitely are

1363
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 3: looking up for them with like this new ownership of

1364
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 3: the bar and Kai is going to join the dance team.

1365
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:57,240
Speaker 3: So there's again just moments of like levity, there's an

1366
01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:01,880
Speaker 3: understanding that this family stealing with a lot, but it's

1367
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 3: all just like handled very beautifully. And this comes as

1368
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 3: at no surprise because of who directed the film. We're

1369
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:14,719
Speaker 3: always talking about, okay, like who's handling this subject matter,

1370
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 3: and because the writer director is a black woman.

1371
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 2: From for her worth for like this is her youth

1372
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 2: that she's like showing.

1373
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 1: In this movie.

1374
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:29,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so goes to show why it's so important

1375
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 3: for people of marginalized communities to have the chance to

1376
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 3: tell their own stories and tell whatever stories they want

1377
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 3: to tell. Ye and Channing Godfrey Peoples did an incredible job.

1378
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 3: And yeah, like we said, I hope there's a lot

1379
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 3: more on the horizon for her. So five nipples, I'll

1380
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 3: spread them.

1381
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 1: Among Channing love a spread.

1382
01:19:57,439 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, and it's a delicious spread. Nicole Bahari, the

1383
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 3: actor who plays Kai Alexis to quays again, still clear

1384
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 3: on her pronunciation. So sorry Alexis those that's who gets

1385
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:15,759
Speaker 3: my nipples.

1386
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm gonna go five as well. Yeah.

1387
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 2: This movie is it just it fucking rips. It is

1388
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 2: like just spending time in a very specific world. I

1389
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 2: love like you're saying, Angelica. I mean, there's not a

1390
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,880
Speaker 2: lot of movies about black people in the South, and

1391
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 2: the fact that this seems to be, based on the

1392
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 2: interviews she was giving the exact movie that Channing Godfrey

1393
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 2: Peoples wanted to make, and she got to make it,

1394
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 2: and she got to make it on her own terms,

1395
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 2: and it's fucking awesome, And I just like, I really

1396
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 2: love this movie. And I feel like of it's also

1397
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 2: in the like pageant movie genre, completely.

1398
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 1: Unlike anything else totally.

1399
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 2: There's so many I feel like, I mean, I guess

1400
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 2: you could make the argument for a little Miss Sunshine,

1401
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 2: but I think like especially the Miss Juneteenth pageant and

1402
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 2: the way that that information is introduced to the audience

1403
01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 2: I feel like very often you're almost as an audience member,

1404
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 2: like over explained to and it almost feels like an

1405
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 2: Adam McKay movie for a second of like, hey, let

1406
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 2: me tell you about June teenth, and it's like it's

1407
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,840
Speaker 2: not chanting Godfrey people's job to tell me what June

1408
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 2: teenth is. And it like you find out about this

1409
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 2: community and what's important to them and their history very

1410
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 2: organically through the world, and it's I love, I don't know.

1411
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 2: I just love everything about this movie. The Mother Daughter Dynamics.

1412
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:41,719
Speaker 2: I feel like there's so many movies about generational trauma

1413
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 2: right now that there's like generational trauma tropes that this

1414
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 2: movie evades completely. You get little tastes of so many

1415
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 2: different parts of this world. There's so much about Turquis

1416
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:56,200
Speaker 2: and Ronnie's relationship that we don't know, but you get

1417
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 2: a feeling for it just on the performances and the writing.

1418
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 2: There's so much ab out Turquoise and Charlotte. We don't know,

1419
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 2: but you get a taste of it, and I just like,

1420
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think in the past couple of years,

1421
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 2: I've really grown to appreciate movies that don't feel the

1422
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 2: need to explain themselves to you like you're there, and

1423
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 2: you can sort of get a feel for what the

1424
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,680
Speaker 2: world does when it's shown to you the way that

1425
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,600
Speaker 2: this movie shows you fort Worth and shows you Turquoise's

1426
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 2: community and life.

1427
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,839
Speaker 1: And I just love it. Yeah, I'm gonna go five nipples.

1428
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:30,840
Speaker 1: How am I gonna spread my nipples? Let's see, let's see.

1429
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 3: Oh, you know what. I want to give part of

1430
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 3: my spread to shout Out opal Lee and her cameo

1431
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 3: in the Yeah movie she gets She's included in my

1432
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 3: spread as well.

1433
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,040
Speaker 1: I'm giving all of mine to Chanting Godfree People.

1434
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:49,519
Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep it simple and I really look forward

1435
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 2: to seeing what she makes next and hope.

1436
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 1: That it will get the support that it deserves.

1437
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 3: Definitely. Yeah, and Jelika, how about you?

1438
01:22:57,160 --> 01:23:01,679
Speaker 4: Five nipples all the way? Yeah, And I'm ann echo

1439
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 4: Jamie and give them all to Channing Godfree Peoples. I find,

1440
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 4: how you know, culturally realize and warm and striking and

1441
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:16,280
Speaker 4: aesthetically astute. The film is to be really inspiring. I

1442
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:20,639
Speaker 4: think there's this belief that all stories have already been told,

1443
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 4: but watching something like Miss Juneteenth as a reminder that

1444
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 4: because of how barred black people have been from telling

1445
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 4: their own stories. That's not true. There's so many stories

1446
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:34,400
Speaker 4: that have yet to be told. And I think, you know,

1447
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:38,000
Speaker 4: Channing Godfrey Peoples is really inspiring for being able to

1448
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 4: create a film she's really proud of and didn't have

1449
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 4: to compromise on and offered audiences something they hadn't seen before,

1450
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:50,600
Speaker 4: whose importance lies in the artistry of it and the

1451
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:53,599
Speaker 4: care put into it, not just because it's you know,

1452
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:58,439
Speaker 4: showing this side of black identity. Yeah, I'm just you know,

1453
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 4: just really taken by the film and I really love

1454
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:04,719
Speaker 4: it and hope people continue to discover it over the years.

1455
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:09,839
Speaker 3: For sure, I would say all stories about the straight

1456
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:14,160
Speaker 3: white male experience has been told, Yeah, but there are

1457
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:15,200
Speaker 3: so many others.

1458
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't mean they'll stop trying.

1459
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:20,799
Speaker 4: They will not stop, never gonna stop.

1460
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,679
Speaker 1: But so frustrating. And I can't wait to see Nicole

1461
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:25,599
Speaker 1: Bahari lead another movie.

1462
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, damn it. She's such a good artist. She's

1463
01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 4: put so much care into her craft. I feel like

1464
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:36,680
Speaker 4: we've only like scratched the.

1465
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 1: Surface of what she can do as a performer.

1466
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 4: So for sure, I really hope for the best for

1467
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:42,719
Speaker 4: her career.

1468
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 1: Same.

1469
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:47,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Angelica Thank you so much for joining us.

1470
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 3: This has been a delight. Come back anytime, truly.

1471
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would love to come back on Thank you

1472
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:56,440
Speaker 4: for inviting me. This was a really fun conversation.

1473
01:24:57,160 --> 01:24:59,320
Speaker 1: First. Yeah, any movie you want, you can.

1474
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 2: I mean, it's also fun to shit on a movie

1475
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 2: for two hours if you've got one.

1476
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny. I've become like known for some reason

1477
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 4: as a contrarian, like I hate everything, but ha ha

1478
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 4: see I talked about how I loved a movie for

1479
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,560
Speaker 4: like almost two hours, So fuck off haters.

1480
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 3: And that's that beautiful vulgarity. Wait, what's the deliciously vulgar.

1481
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 1: Aspect of that you all came for?

1482
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 3: But truly, thank you again. And where can people check

1483
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:33,840
Speaker 3: out your work? Follow you online, et cetera.

1484
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:38,880
Speaker 4: Most of my work you can find at New York

1485
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:41,519
Speaker 4: Magazine site Vulture or in the pages of New York

1486
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:42,800
Speaker 4: Magazine because that's my job.

1487
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 1: That's my main girl.

1488
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 4: That's where most like ninety seven percent of my work

1489
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:51,320
Speaker 4: is just Vulture because it's my job. But I do

1490
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 4: freelance occasionally. And you know, if you follow me on

1491
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 4: Instagram at Angelica Jade Bastian, you can keep up with

1492
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:03,480
Speaker 4: my work, or you know, subscribe to my lovely newsletter,

1493
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 4: which is updated every four months, because that's just how

1494
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:07,400
Speaker 4: I roll.

1495
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:10,960
Speaker 1: Sorry, y'all, but I love a jump scare newsletter.

1496
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:13,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, hey, hey, y'all, it's been six months.

1497
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 4: I'm back.

1498
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:17,080
Speaker 3: I'd rather that than like a weekly news I'm like,

1499
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:19,320
Speaker 3: get out of here, quit bugging me.

1500
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:21,680
Speaker 4: Yes, I leave me alone. What are you doing? What

1501
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 4: do you have to say? Yeah, but my newsletter is

1502
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:29,719
Speaker 4: on substack and it's called Mad Women and Muses, and yeah,

1503
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:31,799
Speaker 4: you can find me there. You can find me at Vulture.

1504
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 4: You can find me shooting the shit on Instagram lives

1505
01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 4: occasionally to talk shit about whatever movie I want to.

1506
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:42,040
Speaker 4: But yeah, you know, google me, you'll find me. I'm

1507
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:43,400
Speaker 4: around wonderful.

1508
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 3: We're around two and you can follow us on Twitter

1509
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 3: and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can go to our

1510
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 3: Patreon aka Matreon, where we famously did a whole month

1511
01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:02,679
Speaker 3: dedicated to Pageant movies, which we famous called Pagentuary, and

1512
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 3: that plus many many other episodes. It's five dollars a month.

1513
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 3: You get two bonus episodes every month, plus the back

1514
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:15,479
Speaker 3: catalog of what I Think one hundred and I don't know,

1515
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 3: thirty fifty something like that bonus episodes. And that is

1516
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 3: all at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast.

1517
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:26,799
Speaker 2: And you can get merch over at tipa dot com

1518
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 2: slash the Bechtel Cast.

1519
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, with that, how do we how do we?

1520
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:36,000
Speaker 3: Okay? The runner up of this episode? No, I'm kidding,

1521
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 3: it's not us.

1522
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:39,599
Speaker 1: You know who won?

1523
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 3: All three of us? Well, we won Miss Spectyl Cast.

1524
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:49,160
Speaker 1: We're all. We did it again, five hundred episodes running.

1525
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,720
Speaker 3: We did it, yes, okay, bye by