1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Amy Robock and TJ. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. Hey, everybody, 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 2: Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. Joining me 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: today is the incredible Emmy nominated actor Richard Maser. Richard's 5 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: remarkable career has spanned more than five decades across film, television, 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: and Broadway, but one of his most unforgettable roles came 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 2: in the groundbreaking nineteen eighty four television movie The Burning Bed, 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 2: where he portrayed defense attorney Arian Gray. Danis, the lawyer 9 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 2: who defended Francine Hughes, who killed her abusive, alcoholic husband 10 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: following years of horrific domestic violence. At the time, the 11 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: case forced America to confront difficult questions many people had 12 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: never seriously considered. When in an in doors years of abuse, 13 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 2: why don't they just leave? What does prolonged trauma actually 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: do to the mind? And when the legal system fails 15 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: to protect someone, where do we draw the line between 16 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: justice and survival. Francine Hughes was ultimately acquitted due to 17 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: temporary insanity, and burning bed syndrome, also called battered woman syndrome, 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: became something studied by academics and used as a defense 19 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 2: in other cases of women killing their abusers. So this 20 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: was a groundbreaking case that has had a massive impact 21 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: on actual policy and is considered to be a major 22 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: part of laying the foundation for a modern awareness of 23 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: domestic violence. 24 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: Richard, Welcome to Killer Thriller. Thank you so much for 25 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: speaking with me today. 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,199 Speaker 3: Hay to be here. 27 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: I'm truly honored to meet you. You've had an incredible 28 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: career that spans more than five decades, with memorable roles 29 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: in everything. I feel like you've been in every movie 30 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: and TV show ever made. But there is one project 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about today, the Burning Bed, 32 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: which wasn't just successful, it helped change the national conversation 33 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: about domestic violence. And I was blown away by this 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 2: movie when it came out. I was thirteen and I 35 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: didn't see it then, but I remember this that I 36 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: remember it happening and feeling like, oh my god, this 37 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: is there's something really important happening. And so for people 38 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: who aren't familiar with Francin and Hughes in this case, 39 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: just walk us through what happened and what it's about. 40 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, it's a really long time regard 41 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 3: for me you probably are more up on this than 42 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 3: I am. But essentially what it's about is Barafacet played 43 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 3: this woman who was married to a man who was 44 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 3: very abusive, drunk. His whole family was kind of an 45 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: abusive family, and that he came from. Paul um Out, 46 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 3: who played the the husband, was just wonderful and I'll 47 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: tell you a little story about that later. But and 48 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 3: then what happened was she she had two young children, 49 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 3: and she was tired of being abused and didn't know 50 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 3: how to get out of it, and ended up one 51 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: night he beat her up, and then he got drunk. 52 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: He was really drunk, and he fell asleep in his bed, 53 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: and she came into his room and she poured gastling 54 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: around and she set it on fire and burned the 55 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 3: house down with him in it, and he was passed out. 56 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 3: He probably was unconscious through the whole thing anyway, and 57 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: then she right everything. She tried going to the police 58 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 3: for help, and so this was a murder obviously on 59 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: the one hand. On the other hand, she it was 60 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 3: self defense, was the was the claim. And I played 61 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 3: her lawyer who came up with that defense. And it 62 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 3: was a really it was a really extraordinary experience for 63 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 3: all of us. Farah, who had done some really good 64 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 3: work just prior to that. She she'd done a few 65 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 3: dramatic roles that had really, you know, lifted her out 66 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 3: of the Yeah, well Charlie's Angels, then all kinds of 67 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: things that all the all the all the posters that 68 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 3: cheesecakes stuff. I mean, she's a beautiful woman, and and 69 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 3: and it really it furthered her career. But this was 70 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: not about any of that. And and she really just 71 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: I believe I'm not positive. I think I don't know 72 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: that she got to produce this credit, but I think 73 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: she was instrumental in getting the project going. I think 74 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 3: she was very near and dear to her heart. 75 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 76 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 3: Bobby Greenwald, who directed it, was just a wonderful kind 77 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: of visionary guy. Also, we were very lucky Grace of Risky, 78 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 3: who played Paul's mother. I can't believe. I'm just tollling 79 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 3: you all these names out of my mind. She was unbelievable. 80 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: She's always unbelievable, great, great, great, great actress. And it 81 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 3: was a real honor and a privilege to work with her. 82 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 3: I'll tell you a moment that happened later on after 83 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: we get into the show or whatever you want. 84 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: The whole cast is really pretty spectacular. And I'm always 85 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: whenever I speak about movies that you know, came out 86 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 2: in the past, I always I'm just so sort of 87 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 2: blown away by how it's a really powerful movie. Like 88 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: it is a very very well crafted and well put 89 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: together directed acted movie, and everybody is so good, including 90 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: the children when they're on the stand, like everybody. 91 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: It's just it's not exploitative, you know. 92 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: It really walks that line of being incredibly impactful but 93 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 2: not being exploitative, and I think that's very difficult, especially 94 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: with subject matter like this. 95 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: Well, I'm just going to do a little aside. I 96 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: was very very fortunate to have participated in three different 97 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 3: event movies like The Burning Bed. One was The Burning Bed. 98 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: One was a picture called Fallen Angel where I played 99 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 3: a paedophile who who groomed the little kids for child pornography. 100 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: It was a really disturbing film and it completely changed 101 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 3: that conversation. Also uh highest rated television movie of that season, 102 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 3: which The Burning Bed also was in it season. And 103 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 3: then another film called Adam, which was about Adam Walsh, 104 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 3: John and Reve Walsh's son who was kidnapped and murdered, 105 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 3: and I was fortunate enough to be in that and 106 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 3: the sequel we did to that. 107 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 2: I interviewed Joebeth Williams about that movie. Yeah, that was 108 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: really something. 109 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 3: She was unbelievable and and as I mean, as was 110 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: Dan Travante, and it was again it was a great 111 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 3: and we were meeting we met all the people we 112 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: were playing, which was spooky. You don't always get to 113 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 3: do that. Yes, yeah, yeah. 114 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: Did you get to do that with this movie? 115 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 3: No? No, I never met Gridanis he was. I don't know. 116 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 3: I mean, it just wasn't something we were doing at 117 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: that time. John and Revey were so integral to the 118 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 3: making of Adam and and of course Fallen Angel. There 119 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 3: it was. It was completely It was not based on 120 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 3: I mean, it was based on reality, but not on 121 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 3: a particular truth one. 122 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: Specific case, right, I remember that one too. 123 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was Yeah, that one must have really 124 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 3: flipped you out for a long time. Yes, I knew. 125 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,119 Speaker 3: I knew. I knew women of a certain age because 126 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 3: they would look at me strangely when they would see me, 127 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 3: and I would know that they had seen Fallen Angel 128 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 3: as young girls. Let me ask you something about Fallen 129 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 3: Angel If I came, yes, it had this amazing rollout. 130 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this. It was one 131 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 3: of the great marketing rolottes for And first of all, 132 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: there were all of the promos for the show were 133 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 3: just a black screen with white letters. There were no pictures, 134 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: no nothing. It was just blah blah, blah blah blah. 135 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 3: And then what Jim Green did, who was one of 136 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: the producers who had been in marketing uh prior to that, 137 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: and with one of the networks, he sent h three 138 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 3: quarter inch videotapes to to to the affiliates all over 139 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: the country about a month before the picture was gonna 140 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 3: come out, and and asked them to invite religious leaders 141 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 3: and teachers and people in the community to come in 142 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 3: and watch a screening of this. And it created this 143 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: amazing buzz one. But also it created this atmosphere of 144 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 3: don't be afraid of this film, show this film to 145 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 3: your children, don't you know when everybody was very nervous. 146 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: It was, I mean, when no one had ever done 147 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: anything like this. It was It's not that it was 148 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 3: so graphic, but it was very emotionally disturbing and anyway, 149 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 3: so so it ran the first time, and it was 150 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: the highest rated movie of the season, and then two 151 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 3: months later they ran it again in prime time, which 152 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: had never been done with a TV movie before, because 153 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: the response from people who had who had not allowed 154 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: their children to see the film was so intense, saying, 155 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 3: when are you going to run this again? I need 156 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 3: to see this with my children so we can have 157 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 3: this conversation. And they did it, and it was the 158 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: second highest rated TV movie of the season. Went around 159 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: the second time, it was Oh my gosh. 160 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: That is that is genius. Also though, that's a really 161 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: smart way to do it. 162 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just I The only reason I told that 163 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 3: story was because I think with all all three of 164 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 3: these they were they were kind of seismic. They had 165 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 3: a kind of seismic effect throughout the population. And and 166 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 3: and I had done Phllen Angel before I did Adam, Oh. 167 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: That was before. That's what I was wondering. What year 168 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: was that it was? 169 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 3: I was released in eighty nineteen eighty and and and 170 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 3: Fallen Angel. The guy that I played, who was the 171 00:11:53,679 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 3: man named Jay Howl, who was who was the what's 172 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 3: the word? Uh, he was the chief assistant. I'm not 173 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 3: thinking of the word uh to Paula losing her last name. 174 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 3: She was a senator from Florida, and she had had 175 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 3: been abused as a child and was very into this 176 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 3: kind of thing and and she wanted to do legislation 177 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 3: about it but wasn't sure what to do. And and 178 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: Jay and he's he's the guy who played in in 179 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 3: Adam Okay J Powell. Uhh. I saw a screening of 180 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: this and he went Paula, oh, with someone of the 181 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 3: w I can't remember. Anyway, he went into the senator's 182 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 3: office and he said, I have to show you this film. 183 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 3: And she watched the whole film. And then when and 184 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 3: they were really like completely flipped out by this. And 185 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 3: when when I met Jay, he came to the set 186 00:12:59,440 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 3: while we were. 187 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: Uh. 188 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 3: And when I met him, he said, I can't believe 189 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 3: I mean we this changed the entire conversation, uh in 190 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: our office about what needed to be done, how it 191 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 3: should be done, everything else anyway, So, I mean, this 192 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 3: is these connections. 193 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: Paula Hawkins, Paula Hockens, and. 194 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 3: Snaky Good Research. Let's go back to the burning bed. 195 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, no, no, these are all I mean, this 196 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: is something that you know it's incredibly meaningful to do 197 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: work like this, you know, and we don't always get 198 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: to do things that are you know, have such a 199 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: strong and important impact. 200 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: But I do believe like that is the reason that 201 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: many of us get involved in this business. 202 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: I mean to sort of, you know, so I feel 203 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 2: like it can be a very noble business at moments, 204 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 2: and things like this, like these projects are certainly those 205 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: those moments. 206 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: And because so the with. 207 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 2: The Burning bed and your character you whose name is 208 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: Arian graydness, I'm saying. 209 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 3: Great, then we pronounced its. 210 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: Great, Danis said, yeah, Marian graddanis. 211 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: So he had the difficult job of helping a jury 212 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 2: understand years of abuse rather than just judging a single night, 213 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: so that the legal question wasn't simply did she do it, 214 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: because she actually admitted that she did, but it was 215 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: what happened to her over thirteen years. So how unusual 216 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: was that argument at the time? 217 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 3: Well, I I one of the reasons that the film 218 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 3: got made is it was a very unusual argument that 219 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: that that, you know, this kind of vamptive self defense 220 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: from this kind of abuse could be used as a defense. 221 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 3: Number one. Number two, I think the circumstances and also 222 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 3: the which came across beautifully because of the way Barah 223 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 3: played it. But but her her persona was such that 224 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: she was not a violent person. She was not a 225 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 3: you know, she was a very sweet and uh you know, 226 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 3: a great mom and everything else. Yeah, let me for 227 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 3: you a story about we We got to rehearse for 228 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 3: a day, which was very unusual in a TV movie. 229 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 3: You didn't have enough time and and and you really 230 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: had to move pretty quickly. It wasn't like shooting a 231 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 3: feature film. But but everyone wanted this to be really great, 232 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: especially faris so and what we focused on primarily in 233 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: the rehearsal was the courtroom. So we were we went 234 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: into the set that we were going to shoot in 235 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 3: before we ever started working, and we rehearsed through the 236 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: courtroom scenes. And the first scene that I was doing 237 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: with Farah on the stand, I you know, and we 238 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 3: didn't know each other, but she was really open and nice, 239 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 3: and I'd been around she knew who I was, you know. 240 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: So I went over. I went over to her and 241 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 3: I said, listen, when we do this, don't worry about 242 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: anything except me. Stay focused on me. I'm going to 243 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: take you where you need to be looking. And I 244 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 3: don't know why I thought that was the right thing 245 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 3: to do. It was just my idea of what I 246 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 3: would do if I were a defense counsel and my 247 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 3: client was on the stand, and how I wanted the 248 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 3: jury to be seeing her, and so I stayed away. 249 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 3: I came in and out with her, but she focused. 250 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 3: She told me the story the entire time, and then 251 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: I would lead her over to the jury box and 252 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 3: I would stand right by the jury box, and she'd 253 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 3: still be talking to me, but she'd be facing them, 254 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: you know, and wouldn't have to deal with the discomfort 255 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 3: of talking to people she didn't know about some of 256 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 3: this very very intimate and disturbing stuff. And that turned 257 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 3: out to be a very useful tactic, which when her 258 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 3: elder daughter was on the stand and she had a 259 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 3: really tough job, and she was a very sweet I 260 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 3: don't know, she was eleven maybe or twelve when we 261 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 3: did it. She was really I mean she, I mean, 262 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 3: she was fair of us. It's daughter. She had to 263 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 3: look kind of beautiful, you know, and she was really 264 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 3: a sweet looking girl, and she hadn't done much of anything. 265 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 3: So I had the same conversation with her. She was 266 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 3: really nervous in the rehearsal, and I said, you're just 267 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 3: talking to me, don't worry about anybody else. There's nothing 268 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 3: else to think. And we didn't have jury members when 269 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 3: we were doing the rehearsal, and we were just a 270 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: jury bus. I said, but just stay with me, and 271 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 3: and we did that, and then when we shot, she 272 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 3: was like just laser folks. Then, you know, And and 273 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 3: I did the same thing with her and Bobby and 274 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 3: I figured out, you know, when you know, I would say, 275 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 3: when do you want to see the jury? When do 276 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 3: you want me to bring her over there? But I 277 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 3: also knew when in what she was saying, it would 278 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 3: be good to have the jury thing her full up. 279 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: Those scenes are incredible. 280 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: I'm so happy that you told this story because they're 281 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 2: so powerful, the courtroom scenes. And I've got emotional when 282 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: you were just telling me that because I remembered the 283 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 2: feeling of watching it where it's incredibly intimate, like that's 284 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 2: what you feel and there is this connection with the 285 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: two of you, in particular with you and Parah where 286 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: it feels like I'm getting chills. She is like I 287 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 2: am going to trust this person, like I feel safe 288 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 2: with this person telling him this information. You know, it's 289 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 2: so good, it's so powerful. And that young actress who 290 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 2: I mean, just like I'm. 291 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 3: Going to tell you it's a spooky cruss connected story here. Okay. 292 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 3: So I told you Abrat Fallen a Angel, and Dana 293 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 3: who was the girl in that she was sixteen, but 294 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 3: she was very little and she was playing like eleven 295 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 3: twelve year old. I think she was eleven, uh in 296 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 3: the in the show, and and and I you know, 297 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 3: and and what what I did in Fallen Angel, which 298 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 3: creep people out so much, was I was. All I 299 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 3: did was I tried to be the best person she 300 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 3: had ever met in order to get her confidence. And Okay, 301 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 3: so when after we shot the Burning Bed, it was 302 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 3: almost all done. It was I think the last day 303 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: we were shooting, I had I was waiting around to 304 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 3: do a some wildlnes and and in the courtroom, but 305 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 3: Pharah was off. They were off at Fara shooting something 306 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 3: in the jail set in the same studio, the same 307 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 3: sound stage. So I'm sitting in the in the courtroom 308 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 3: all by myself, and in walks the older daughter. I'm sorry, 309 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 3: I can't remember her name. She was so wonderful. Anyway, 310 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 3: So she walks in and says, oh, hi. She came over. 311 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 3: She gave me a big hug, say hi, And I said, so, 312 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 3: how you doing, because she did a lot of stuff 313 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 3: that I never saw, you know, I said, how did 314 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 3: the rest go? And how was that? And it she said, oh, 315 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 3: it's great and she and she looked at me and 316 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 3: she said, you know something, no one everybody talked to me, 317 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 3: and everybody treated me like I was a little kid, 318 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 3: except you. I never felt that way with you. You 319 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 3: always just talked to me like we were on the 320 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 3: same level. And it really, it really made a big 321 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 3: difference to me. I really felt like you saw me 322 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 3: and you heard me and blah blah blah. And and I said, 323 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 3: well that's great because you were wonderful and you really responded. 324 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 3: And while I was sitting there listening to this, this 325 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 3: was this was almost verbadeim a line that Dana says 326 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 3: to me in Fallen Angel about how I am in 327 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 3: that I had, you know, and I got really weird, 328 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 3: and a chill thing happened. And I thought, because when 329 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 3: I was doing Fallen Angel and playing this really despicable guy, 330 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: you can't play a guy you can't play a character 331 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 3: that you don't have some compassion for, even as horrible 332 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 3: as they are. And and I, you know, I read 333 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 3: a lot of material about, you know, transcripts of these 334 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 3: people being interviewed, and they always thought they were doing 335 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: the right thing. They were they loved the kids so much. 336 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 3: You know, it's really odd. And while I'm sitting there 337 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 3: with with the I keep calling her the older daughter. 338 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 3: I feel terrible about that. Yeah, Okay, while I'm sitting 339 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 3: there with her and she's saying this to me, I thought, 340 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: you know, if I were that guy, I could go 341 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 3: anywhere I wanted with her. I could have her do 342 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 3: anything I wanted her to do. And the difference between 343 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: him and me is that is that little switch that 344 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 3: that I don't flip, and that he flipped, you know. 345 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 3: And I thought I knew that when I was doing 346 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 3: the other role. But this was the most graphic example 347 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 3: of that. You know. She was this lovely little about 348 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 3: to be really blossoming little girl, and and and if 349 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 3: I were bent that way, it was you know, it 350 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 3: was so weird. Yeah, but it's also but it's also 351 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 3: it's also true that I. 352 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: Did Kris her name. 353 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I don't know if I never knew, 354 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 3: if she I know. I ran into her a couple 355 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 3: of years after that, I think, and she she was working, 356 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 3: so I hopefully she does did a bunch of work. 357 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 3: But anyway, she thank you for that. Yeah, so that's 358 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 3: the cross connection. I want to go back to the 359 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 3: Burning Bed because I want to tell you a couple 360 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: of other things. Really greatly. I got nominated for an 361 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 3: Emmy for this, okay, And when I got when I 362 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 3: got the nomination, I was just sitting there, going, what Now, 363 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 3: I did a really I did a completely good job 364 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 3: in this in this, in this film, I delivered exactly 365 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: what and I added to it. I know all of that. 366 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 3: But PAULA. Matt killed in the movie. He killed in 367 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 3: this movie. And well, I am one hundred percent convinced 368 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 3: I'm saying this in public for the first time, that 369 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 3: Paul was the person that a lot of people thought 370 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 3: they were voting for. They knew my name, they knew 371 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,479 Speaker 3: my name, and they knew it was a guy in 372 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 3: the Burning Bed, and they just went, oh, that must 373 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 3: have been him, because they knew my name. Paul had 374 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 3: done American graffiti and a couple of other things. I 375 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 3: don't know how much else he done at that point, 376 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 3: but he was not as well known in TV circles 377 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 3: as I was, and I was one hundred percent convinced 378 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 3: that it was a mistake. But you know, I still 379 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 3: I'm not. I don't need to belittle myself. I was 380 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 3: very proud of that performance, and you know, and I 381 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 3: knew I wasn't going to win, but it was It 382 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 3: was okay because it wasn't that kind of role. 383 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, he I mean, you're you're very humble to say that, 384 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 2: but about yourself. His his performance is phenomenal because it's 385 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 2: also you know, there are so many things that are 386 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: heartbreaking about this, but they you know, he wasn't Mickey 387 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 2: Hughes is not portrayed as angry every minute of the 388 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: day right that he is this and the abuse it 389 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 2: wasn't constant violence. There were apologies and promises and moments 390 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 2: of kindness and you know which all those things are 391 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 2: very typical and abusive dynamics. So do you think that 392 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: people underestimate how difficult it is to escape an abusive relationship? 393 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, I think. I mean it's been demonstrated in 394 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 3: in fiction many or you know, and in document and 395 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 3: documentaries also so many times how I you know that 396 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 3: first of all, the the fear of trying and not succeeding, 397 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 3: very big fear. And and most people, as I understand it, 398 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 3: who have who are in abusive relationships, make an attempt 399 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 3: and then regret it afterward because they they they suffer 400 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 3: tremendously afterwards. But also there's this, as you said, this 401 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 3: character was he was charming, which is why they got together. 402 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 3: And they didn't get together because he was abusive. They 403 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 3: got together because it was charming, you know. And but 404 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 3: and I'm just going to go back to one more 405 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 3: little thing I want to give you from the courtroom 406 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 3: in the when I when I'm cross examining Gray Subiski, okay, 407 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 3: which is my favorite moment. 408 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: She plays Mickey Hughes, the character of Mickey's mom. 409 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: And and she is she is a tough, you know, countrywoman. 410 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 3: She's played a lot of those. She's really really good 411 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 3: at that. And I and I was trying to think, 412 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 3: how do I, as the lawyer, how do I show 413 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 3: them who she really is? And we never talked about it. 414 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 3: I just I went up to her. I had a 415 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 3: pet in my hand, I believe, and I'm talking to her. 416 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 3: I'm asking her questions and I got really close to 417 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 3: her and I said something that I knew would trigger her. 418 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 3: And then as soon as I said I started to 419 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 3: walk away, and she went like this. She swiped at me. 420 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 3: She tried to grab me, like she was really angry, 421 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 3: and she tried to grab me. And that was the 422 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 3: whole This is what this boy grew up with. This 423 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 3: is what this is what Paul's character grew up with. 424 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: I think he grew up with and that's how he is. 425 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 3: But it also said, that's that's who was in that 426 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 3: bed and when it was burned, was that the product 427 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 3: of that woman? 428 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 2: That is such a great say, I remember that moment, 429 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 2: I remember that part of the sea, and she she 430 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: does it's like you have she for a second gets 431 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 2: like you can see the violence in her. 432 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: You know, she's. 433 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 3: Trying to keep it together. She's trying to bullshit her 434 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 3: way through and she's trying to keep it together. But 435 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 3: but I just I and I wanted to figure out 436 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 3: a way to trigger her. Yep. And when the first 437 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 3: time we did it, I had, you know, Grace just 438 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 3: went like that and it was so great. And then 439 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 3: we did it so good yeah, you know it was. 440 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 2: She was great to work, I mean, is another reason 441 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 2: why this film is so powerful, because it really it 442 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 2: tells the nuanced bits of these people's lives as best 443 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: it can, so you understart can start to understand how 444 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: abused people abuse people, or how someone could turn a 445 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 2: blind eye. 446 00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: Or you know. 447 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: One of the things that it's so heartbreaking is that 448 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: Francine repeatedly asked for help she but she couldn't get it. 449 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 2: I mean, she talked to her own family, to her mother, 450 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 2: to his mother. She was told things like you have 451 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: to take the bitter with the suite and all these 452 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 2: things that are just and the final act, before she 453 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: lights things on fire, the police actually came to the 454 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 2: home because he had been beating her, but because they 455 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: didn't witness it, they weren't able to arrest him. 456 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 3: Right, which is crazy, right, crazy? And a lot changed. 457 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 3: You know, you can't credit the film with all this, 458 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 3: but a lot changed after that film in terms of 459 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 3: how these things are dealt with. And also there are 460 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: a lot more resources available, even if even if the 461 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 3: the law enforcement isn't in a position to to take action. 462 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 3: But also I think a lot of there's been a 463 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 3: lot of training that's gone on also of law enforcement 464 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 3: people to. 465 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 4: To to remove people, at least temporarily if they're not 466 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 4: even if they're not being arrested, when there's actual signs 467 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 4: of abuse. 468 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 3: And and stuff. And again it's also how do they 469 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 3: do people go to the hospital? Do they get it documented? 470 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 3: Is it you know? Or and if it isn't and 471 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 3: it's like two days later, it's it's the you know, 472 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: they don't have the information that the the contemporaneous information 473 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 3: in right, right. 474 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 2: Right, So the the real Francine who's She watched the 475 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 2: movie with her children when it premiered, and then some 476 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 2: members of Mickey Hughes's family publicly said they believed that 477 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 2: it wasn't an accurate portrayal, which is not a surprise 478 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 2: considering well. 479 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 3: Also there was a book prior to the film, if 480 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 3: I'm remembering, Yes, there was, and you know, and that's 481 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 3: one of the things filmed and especially TV movies at 482 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 3: the time, they were very very very sensitive about, uh, 483 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 3: you know, slant you know, libel suits and slander suits 484 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And consequently, once you have something 485 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 3: come out in one format, let's say a book, and 486 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 3: there's no legal action taken or if there is legal action, 487 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 3: it's unsuccessful, and you're basing what you're doing almost entirely 488 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 3: on the other work. 489 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: You're you're in the clear, then you're safe, right. 490 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, And a lot I think everything we said in 491 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 3: the courtroom was straight off the transcripts. 492 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 2: The book was written by Faith McNulty. 493 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 3: And I'm ninety nine percent sure that everything no, not 494 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 3: not even straight off out of the book, but straight 495 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 3: off the actual port transcripts. Okay, because a lot of 496 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 3: times when you're depicting, I've done this more than once, 497 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 3: and it's a it's a bitch to do transcribe material 498 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 3: because people don't speak the way. 499 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 4: I do. 500 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 3: That don't speak the way you think they will. And 501 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 3: uh and and uh, there are a lot of you 502 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 3: know that, I mean your brain as or my brain. 503 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 3: He was always correcting the grammar or or something, you know. 504 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 3: And and sometimes and I've had like I did this 505 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 3: other film, another true crime thing called The Demon Murder 506 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 3: Case that I did with Kevin Bacon. 507 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 2: I'm your one degree now, yeah, I think I'm three 508 00:33:58,840 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: degrees of Kevin. 509 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 3: No three no, no, your two degrees because. 510 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: Me yes, Oh so now I'm closer that's right. I 511 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: was three before. You just brought me a step closer, right. 512 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 3: So anyway, so yeah, it was crazy, weird case. But anyway, 513 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 3: I played also, I played his attorney. I don't remember 514 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 3: if I was his attorney, and the press secure I 515 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 3: don't know. I think I was Jesus, I can't remember. 516 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 3: I think I was his attorney, but I'm not sure anyway, 517 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 3: And my closing argument I if I if I missed 518 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 3: the or an and we had to go back and 519 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 3: do it again. They were paranoid about doing anything that 520 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 3: was paraphrasing. It was a little and also a grey 521 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 3: Danis had a real the guy who I was doing 522 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 3: the demon murder case, he his grammar was all over 523 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 3: the world. Man, I could not I could not retain 524 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 3: my brain just kept trying to fix it. But the 525 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 3: great Danas I was much easier to do much anyway. 526 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, I. 527 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 2: Mean that was I was going to ask the question of, 528 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: you know, how how to film aker's balance telling the 529 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,919 Speaker 2: victim story while knowing and recognizing that there are real 530 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 2: families on every side, and how do you you know, 531 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 2: do you think do you approach these characters differently than 532 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 2: someone who is purely fictional. 533 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 3: I know, I don't. I don't think so. I mean, basically, 534 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 3: you're doing you know, my whole deal And people have 535 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 3: said this to me over the years, but my whole 536 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 3: deal is always I want to I want to be 537 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 3: the guy who is supposed to be there doing what 538 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 3: he's doing. You know. That's that's my Yeah, that's my 539 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 3: whole orientation to it and my heroes growing up, the 540 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 3: guys I grew up like, hoping that I would be like, well, 541 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 3: my my main guy was Spencer Tracy, but but who 542 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 3: I'm nothing like by the way, but but uh, but 543 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 3: my but my later guy was was Gene Hackman, who 544 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 3: I'm also nothing like. But the thing that both of 545 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 3: them did that I was so taken by, uh was 546 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 3: they they were both able to do what I just described, 547 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 3: which is be the guy that they said they were 548 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 3: and nothing else, you know. I mean, Tracy was Tracy 549 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 3: could be so simple and just kill you, and and 550 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 3: Hackman was the same. You Never, I never doubted anything 551 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 3: that Gene Hackman did, including playing you know, oh god, 552 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 3: what's his name the villain and Superman Lex Luthor. You know, 553 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 3: I never doubted it. I never doubted that he was 554 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 3: Lex Luthor, even though she was nothing like my image 555 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 3: of Lex Luthor from reading comic books. 556 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: Right, it is like nothing inflated. 557 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 2: It's like a very authentic because now as you're talking, 558 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 2: I have this just to go back to Fallen Angel 559 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: again for a second. 560 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: If that came out in eighty one. 561 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 2: I think I was ten, so I did not see 562 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 2: this movie, but I remember your image, your face, being 563 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 2: on the screen and having this feeling like or maybe 564 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 2: seeing some other something and where I knew that it 565 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 2: was negative, right, Like I knew that this character was 566 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 2: not a good man. But I was so confused because 567 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 2: I remember seeing your face and feeling like. 568 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: Wait, this looks like such a nice man, you know, 569 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 1: like I And it was really confusing. 570 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 2: So even from the standpoint of somebody who wasn't you know, 571 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 2: I didn't watch the movie. I was too young, it 572 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 2: was like it was real, like you were you were 573 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 2: doing the job, like I have an image of my 574 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 2: mind of that in my mind. 575 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 3: Well that's I mean, that's the plan, you know. Jeff Bridges, 576 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 3: who also I mean I can't think of him that 577 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 3: way because we kind of came up together. But uh, Jeff, 578 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 3: Jeff said, I'm going to misquote him. There's something like 579 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 3: acting is about the accidents that happened and taking advantage 580 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 3: of them. And that's that's true. That's the thing that 581 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 3: happened with Grace, with the when Jeff snatched at me. 582 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 2: It's such a powerful I'm so glad you brought that 583 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 2: up because that's such a strong. 584 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 3: Moment and and and it also it's I think that's 585 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 3: back to what you just said about humanizing the bad guys, 586 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 3: as it were. That's one of the things along with 587 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 3: Paul's performance, which as you said, was very textured and 588 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 3: a lot of things going on in it. But but 589 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 3: knowing from that one moment how she treated her son, 590 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 3: because she was willing to reach out to smack me 591 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 3: way bigger than she was, and you know, she just 592 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 3: knowing that that kind of violence that she instilled. 593 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 2: That. 594 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: That's the reaction, right. 595 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 3: And also that she instilled that method of dealing with 596 00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 3: frustration or anger or or or any motion. That she 597 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 3: instilled that in him, I think humanized him in retrospect, 598 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 3: you know, even though it's it's kind of the nail 599 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,399 Speaker 3: in the coffin that in my opinion, that helps her 600 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:19,839 Speaker 3: get acquitted. I think it's also it also humanized him 601 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 3: because it was like this kid didn't have a chance, 602 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 3: he didn't have a chance. 603 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 2: She ultimately, I think, did says something like her son 604 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 2: wasn't right or something like that. 605 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: But the dad. 606 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 2: Just never you know, he just never succumbed to any 607 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 2: of that and just never admitted there was anything wrong. 608 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 2: And I just I don't even know what the question is. 609 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 2: I feel like that sort of ability to shut something off, 610 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 2: I don't do you think that that kind of behavior 611 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 2: has changed that because we've become like a therapized society 612 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 2: or something that is changed, Like, I don't know what 613 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 2: the answer to that is. 614 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 3: Oh, no, no, no, I mean because when you say 615 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 3: we've become a therapized society, that's still a very small 616 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 3: slice of the American populace that's a therapized society. I mean, 617 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of people who just 618 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 3: who you know, that's not how they grew up. It's 619 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 3: considered weakness. You don't you don't get introspective, you know, 620 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 3: you know, And I mean and actors, you know, actors 621 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 3: are by nature you have to be a empathetic and 622 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 3: you have to be also I think you have to 623 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 3: be introspective, even though between us, I mean, I'm as 624 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 3: as close as I may be to some of the 625 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 3: characters that I've played, none of them is me. And 626 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,879 Speaker 3: I only get to do what I what what they 627 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 3: do because that's what they do. Yeah, you know, I 628 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 3: don't get to do that because that's what I want 629 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 3: to do. I get to do that because that's what 630 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 3: they do. Because if left to my own devices, I mean, 631 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 3: I am not by nature particularly outgoing, and I'm not 632 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 3: I'm not I'm certainly not violent. I've played a bunch 633 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 3: of violent people. I'm not violent. I'm not you know, 634 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 3: I'm not. I played. There was a whole period of 635 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 3: time from the like mid eighties through the end of 636 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 3: the nineties where everybody's dad and I was. People have 637 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 3: come up to me and said, oh my god, you're 638 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 3: you're the dad that I grew up with, you know, 639 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,799 Speaker 3: you know, always you know, And I said, but I'm 640 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 3: not that, that's not me. I mean, their elements of 641 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 3: me in there, but that's you know. Uh so that's 642 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 3: you know. And Paul, by the way, perfect example, wouldn't 643 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 3: I mean, he literally wouldn't step on an ant if 644 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 3: he could avoided. He was so he's such a sweet, 645 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 3: sweet man. 646 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 2: And and and he really does look, uh, you know, 647 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 2: like that kind of when a psychopath is taken over, 648 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,360 Speaker 2: you know, when you're it's like you become a different person. 649 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,399 Speaker 2: You really see that in his performance of the two, 650 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 2: you know, like the kind of sweet charming side and 651 00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 2: the other like it's pretty, he's diabolically good. 652 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 3: It's it's really true. And and and I think, you know, 653 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 3: when I think back on it now, I said this 654 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 3: out loud to you for the first time in public, 655 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 3: about the feeling like I'd somehow gotten nominated by mistake. 656 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 3: I was nominated for a supporting actor all and I 657 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 3: bet that Paul was considered by people and probably voted 658 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 3: for by nominated by people for best Actor. And that's 659 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 3: that's a tough category to break through. And you know, 660 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,720 Speaker 3: you have movie stars, even then, you had movie stars 661 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 3: coming in and doing things, and you had people who 662 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 3: you know, are the whole movie and the subject of 663 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 3: the movie not And even though in you know, as 664 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 3: far as the lead, yeah, he's not quite the co 665 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,439 Speaker 3: lead in it. You know, it's really because he's dead 666 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 3: for a big chunk of the. 667 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,760 Speaker 1: Mo did you did you know anything about the case, 668 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: before you read the script and before you knew you 669 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 1: did not you were unaware. 670 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,359 Speaker 3: No, And I was offered this role. Also, I didn't 671 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 3: know audition for this. I don't remember. I was offered 672 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 3: a lot of stuff back then in TV movies, but 673 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 3: I don't remember. There must have been something something about 674 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,719 Speaker 3: Great Danus that Bobby was reminded of or the producers 675 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 3: were reminded of. I don't know. Yeah, no, I knew 676 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,919 Speaker 3: nothing about it. And and as I said, I think, yeah, 677 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,680 Speaker 3: because when did this come out? I don't remember eighty. 678 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: This came eighty four four. 679 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so so yeah, and Fallen Angel, I'm pretty sure 680 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,360 Speaker 3: it was released in eighty. 681 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 1: I think they said nineteen eighty one and they looked up. 682 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 3: Oh, maybe you know what it might be. We shot 683 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 3: it in eighty and it might have No, it's you 684 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 3: know what was eighty was eighty? Was Fallen Angel? That 685 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,799 Speaker 3: was it? Yeah? So it was the year before, And 686 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 3: that also could have been why I was offered the role, 687 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,399 Speaker 3: because not that they were at all the people were 688 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 3: at all alike, but. 689 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,359 Speaker 2: That was but it was so successful and they were like, 690 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 2: we want this guy and everything we do because he 691 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 2: seems to have the magic touch, not exactly. But if 692 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,439 Speaker 2: somebody watches The Burning Bed today for the first time, 693 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 2: what do you hope they take away from it? 694 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 3: It's a great question. Well, I hope that they understand 695 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 3: that it's true and or as true as we could 696 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:56,840 Speaker 3: make it. And I hope also they they're rooting for 697 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:06,399 Speaker 3: her and uh, and that they also understand that it's 698 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:12,799 Speaker 3: that the defense was righteous and legitimate because I that 699 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 3: I I had an absolute belief just from reading the script, 700 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 3: but let alone from and again, I didn't see I 701 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,279 Speaker 3: didn't see much of anything for her dead outside the court. 702 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 3: I mean we had a little bit of stuff other 703 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,879 Speaker 3: than that, right, Yeah, I mean I didn't see all 704 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 3: the stuff that went on with Paul and with her 705 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,279 Speaker 3: and all of that that was and not until I 706 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 3: saw the film, and I was not that But I 707 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 3: just me too, me too and her. I think did 708 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 3: she win? 709 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,279 Speaker 1: She was nominated? 710 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 2: And did we look up she was? I know she 711 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,920 Speaker 2: was nominated for the Emmy for the Golden Globe. I 712 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 2: don't think that she won, right, do we have that info? 713 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? 714 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,920 Speaker 2: I don't think she did, which I I find. I 715 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 2: just she's incredible in this movie, Like I just she's 716 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 2: so good. 717 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 3: And the thing is, you don't know, you don't know 718 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:19,880 Speaker 3: what else. 719 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,320 Speaker 1: Right, there was probably Yeah, it's always a question. 720 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 2: Well, this has been amazing. I really, I'm truly honored 721 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,920 Speaker 2: to speak with you. I'm I'm not kidding when I 722 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 2: say I've been a very big fan for so long, 723 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,640 Speaker 2: and when we started doing this podcast, I wasn't thinking 724 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,239 Speaker 2: about like, oh gosh, I'm going to get to talk 725 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:41,800 Speaker 2: to people that I really admire. 726 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't sort of considering that part of it. So 727 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,320 Speaker 1: it's a real pleasure and an honor. 728 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,759 Speaker 3: And what is the what is the basic theme of 729 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 3: the show? I mean killer Shriller? You could be a horror. 730 00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 2: Thing, right, No, So it's we cover true crime uh cases, 731 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,919 Speaker 2: but through the narrative films and TV shows that they're 732 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:09,439 Speaker 2: based on. So I've spoken with people from who did 733 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,520 Speaker 2: Murdoch Death in the Family, Mandy Matteney who created it, 734 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,640 Speaker 2: and I spoke to spoke to Jay Smith, Cameron talked 735 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,960 Speaker 2: with Skeet Ulrich about the Elizabeth Smart film that he 736 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,560 Speaker 2: did based on her life. So it's you know, I 737 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 2: talked to actors and producers and directors and all people, 738 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,600 Speaker 2: but but based on the narrative stories and how that 739 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 2: is to like bring a real person's life to life 740 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 2: and the responsibility of that. 741 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,320 Speaker 3: And you should take a look at the Demon murder Case. 742 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:43,279 Speaker 3: I'll come back and talk. 743 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's a great title. 744 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 3: It's crazy. No, it was. It was what it was 745 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,000 Speaker 3: called in the press. H it was a true story 746 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,399 Speaker 3: of thing that happened in Connecticut. And Kevin was the lead. 747 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 3: Andy Griffith was in it, who is such amazing man. 748 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,320 Speaker 3: He was so such a wonderful guy. Really, oh wow. 749 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:09,920 Speaker 1: And and. 750 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,920 Speaker 3: You know, for someone who was as famous as he 751 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,399 Speaker 3: was for as long as he was, he was so 752 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 3: accessible and I mean, humble doesn't even get to it, 753 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,920 Speaker 3: you know, he was. He just did. There was no 754 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:33,120 Speaker 3: bullshit about him at all, which was so great. And 755 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,680 Speaker 3: I forget who else was in the film. There are 756 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,439 Speaker 3: a lot of really good people, it does. 757 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,080 Speaker 1: They're telling me here, it's already on our list. 758 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 3: Oh cool. Well, let me know. I'll do a shorter 759 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 3: one for you on that one. No. 760 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 2: Never, I love the stories. This has been so lovely. 761 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Richard. 762 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, okay, and good luck with all of this. 763 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,480 Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah. So well, let's maybe we'll have you 764 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 1: back for that one? Okay, and you should watch this. 765 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: You should watch The Burning Bed if you haven't watched 766 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:02,240 Speaker 1: it recently. 767 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 3: Happen? Where where? Where did you find it? 768 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,839 Speaker 1: Where did you find it? Is it on Prime? Amazon Prime? 769 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:08,400 Speaker 1: It's streaming? 770 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,080 Speaker 3: Oh? Really? Huh? 771 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,800 Speaker 1: Oh for sure? Yeah, it wasn't hard to locate. Yeah. YouTube. 772 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,040 Speaker 1: Oh sorry, it's on YouTube. 773 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,280 Speaker 3: She's saying, I have watched very little of what I've done, 774 00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,759 Speaker 3: very few. I mean back in the day when I 775 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,080 Speaker 3: I guessed it on a lot of things, I never 776 00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 3: watched them. I don't know why. I just because I 777 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 3: was busy, I was doing others. Yeah. 778 00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 2: I think it's usually, especially back then, we couldn't just watch. 779 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:38,080 Speaker 1: You couldn't. 780 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:38,480 Speaker 3: It's like. 781 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:44,120 Speaker 1: Record it on a VCR maybe you know. 782 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 3: Well I'm pre VCR also. I mean they came in 783 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,839 Speaker 3: well after I had started working. But a thank you, 784 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 3: thank you, thank you. 785 00:51:53,000 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: This has been great.