1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 3: And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 3: a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 3: two working parents who love our careers and our families. 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 9 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 10 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: out long term career goals. We want you to get 11 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: the most out of life. 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 4: This is going to be an episode on things to 14 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 4: consider if you are pondering having a third kid. We 15 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 4: thought about calling it should you have a Third Kid? 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 4: I guess that would be a little bit more straightforward 17 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 4: of a title. But Sarah, I mean we get this 18 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 4: question all the time, right, I mean this one even 19 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 4: even just now. As we were coming up with notes 20 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 4: for this one. 21 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 3: I was absolutely delighted to receive in my email inbox 22 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 3: a very detailed question from a listener. I'm not going 23 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 3: to share the name or anything, but I swear it 24 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 3: was almost as if she had read this outline and 25 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 3: was asking us to do this exact episode. She wanted 26 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 3: to hear all about the pros and cons of having 27 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: a third kid in terms of logistics and costs and positives. 28 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh my god, that's coming out very soon. 29 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: So it was a very timely request and it's a 30 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 3: very common request. And I will add that I feel 31 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 3: like most people who are asking people with at least 32 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 3: three kids whether they should have a third probably have 33 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 3: an answer they want to hear. And maybe if you're 34 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 3: asking someone with one child, are you happy with one kid, 35 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: then maybe you're like hoping to be like happy with 36 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 3: a smaller family. Like like, I feel like there's a 37 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: little bit of like leading the witness or something like. 38 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 5: That, But that's okay. 39 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot to talk about, and 40 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 3: I feel like we identified some things for this episode 41 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 3: that aren't necessarily obvious things you might think about when 42 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 3: it comes to having a third kid, but that we've 43 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: learned by doing. 44 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you said. 45 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 4: That having a third was possibly a little bit out 46 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 4: of character for anyone who's just tuning in, like if 47 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 4: a friend sent you this episode. 48 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: Sarah has three. 49 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 4: Children who are eleven, nine, and five. 50 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: I have five. 51 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 4: Children who are sixteen, thirteen, eleven, eight and three. So 52 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 4: you said that, you know, and our littlest ones both 53 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 4: came out in the course that we had this podcast. 54 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 4: So we've in fact talked a little bit about this 55 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 4: in the past. But Sarah, you said having a third 56 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 4: may have been a little bit out of character for you. 57 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I tend to like want things 58 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: to be efficient and easier, Like I refuse to get 59 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 3: a dog, for example, because I'm just like I can't 60 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 3: even wrap my head around like all the things that 61 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: that might entail work wise, and I'm like happy, you know, 62 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 3: happy in my current situation, and like some might have 63 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 3: applied that to a third child, right, Like I already 64 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 3: had a decent sized family, and logistically and cost wise 65 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 3: and all these other ways, having more children makes things 66 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: harder than what might be seen as like this quote 67 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: unquote standard or average number of kids. And yet I 68 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,399 Speaker 3: in like twenty sixteen, when Cameron was like he would 69 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 3: have been like two and a half, I was just 70 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 3: like overwhelmed with the desire for another child, and I 71 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: just couldn't stop thinking about it, like the idea of 72 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,839 Speaker 3: like having this one more and I just didn't feel 73 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 3: complete and I wanted a bigger family, and my feelings 74 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 3: absolutely outweighed the kind of logical side of me. And 75 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 3: I was reflecting on the fact that like I am 76 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 3: an ees FJ in the Myers Briggs framework, and you 77 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 3: might think I'm more of a TJ. I think my 78 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: whole family identifies as something something TJ. But I'm an 79 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 3: FDA And I listened to my heart and I'm so 80 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: happy I did, and I'm glad my heart hasn't told 81 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: me to have a fourth but it absolutely. 82 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 4: The heart keeps going like next thing, you know, it's 83 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 4: like again again. 84 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I don't know. 85 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 4: I mean, I guess I always wanted at least three, 86 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 4: so the third one wasn't the big question. 87 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: And then you know, you wound up with we wound 88 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: up with five and the dogs. So here we go. 89 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: It's just all chaotic over here. 90 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 4: But there are definitely some things to consider. I mean, first, 91 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 4: the cost. We do definitely live in a society where 92 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 4: having children comes with certain costs. There is certain things 93 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 4: that are the marginal costs. I guess, as they say, 94 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 4: can decline on certain things. You know, once you get 95 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 4: the Zoo family membership, you do not have to usually 96 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 4: pay more for the second child or the third child 97 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 4: versus the first. Many people do get the family car 98 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 4: at some point, so if you already got the minivan 99 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 4: when you had two kids, like putting the third in 100 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 4: it isn't going to change that. But on the other hand, 101 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 4: there's a lot of stuff that is set up for 102 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 4: families that are roughly the size of for people, like 103 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 4: most cars, because you put all three in car. 104 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: Seats across the back of your Prius for a while, right. 105 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 3: Yes, I'd like everyone to know that that is theoretically possible. 106 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: The Diona Irradian car seats are narrow and you can 107 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 3: fit three actual car seats in the back of the Preus, 108 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 3: but at some point you will not want to because 109 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: even if they physically fit, they're just too close to 110 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 3: each other. And as they grow, it's like the annoyance 111 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 3: factor is beyond and now they complain. Unfortunately, we tell 112 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 3: them to like just deal with it when they have 113 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: to go in My husband's like now he's kind of 114 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: taken the Prius and I drive the bigger car, which 115 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: is a Highlander, which they definitely fit comfortably in the 116 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: fighting and the chaos is less when they are not 117 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 3: literally on top of each other. 118 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 5: So just because you can doesn't mean you will want 119 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 5: to in the future. 120 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, a lot of people. 121 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 4: Again, this is just a question of when do you 122 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 4: decide to get the suburban family house. You know, if 123 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 4: you have done that once you had two kids, then 124 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 4: it's not usually a big deal to put a third 125 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 4: in it. On the other hand, if you wanted this 126 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 4: sort of urban lifestyle, two kids, particularly two kids of 127 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 4: the same gender, could stay in a shared bedroom forever, 128 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 4: meaning you could live in a two bedroom condo somewhere, 129 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 4: which is just a living format that there is a 130 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 4: lot more option if you, you know, want to be 131 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 4: in an apartment or a condo somewhere in a city, 132 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 4: you could certainly find that in a way that it 133 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 4: is much more challenging to find, say a three bedroom 134 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 4: or a four bedroom. So then you definitely do wind 135 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 4: up out in a place where there is more space, 136 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 4: such as the verbs, which is where we both have 137 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 4: wound up living. Travel So it turns out that a 138 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 4: lot of hotel rooms will only take four people, you know, 139 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: and maybe you can get around that with like a 140 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 4: baby in a crib for a while, but once they're 141 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 4: needing a bed. The hotels will at most have the 142 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 4: two queen beds, and so then if there are more 143 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 4: of four of you, you've got to find certain places. 144 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 4: So you know, we wind up going to embassy suites, right, 145 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 4: do a lot of verbo and home away rentals when 146 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 4: you go to places even yeah, cruises like yeah, and yeah, 147 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 4: especially wind up doing this that you have to say 148 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 4: a complaint like this would be such a gross complaint. 149 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: But like just FYI, cruising as a family of five 150 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 3: is like weirdly more expensive than a family of four. 151 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 3: I mean, we've only done the Disney cruise line. But 152 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: you either have to get like two rooms or you 153 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 3: get a suite, and either way it's not it's not 154 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: twenty five percent more as it shall be. It's close 155 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: to double. So yeah, not a marginal cost in that situation, 156 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: although I guess it would be going from three to 157 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 3: four marginal cost, but not four to five people in 158 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 3: your family. 159 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then there's childcare, which on some of us like, well, 160 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 4: if you you know, hire a nanny for two kids 161 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 4: versus three kids, it's not you know, going to be 162 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 4: that different of a thing. But the question is how 163 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 4: many years you need that? And you know, in our 164 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 4: case where we wind up, you know, we have our 165 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 4: last child as five years younger than the kid before 166 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 4: it wound up, adding many years to the situation of 167 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 4: needing full time childcare. Us what we'd have if our 168 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 4: youngest child was currently eight. I don't think we would 169 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 4: need an extensive amount of help at this point. We'd 170 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 4: need some driving help after school, but we wouldn't need 171 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 4: full time care during the day because you know, Alex, 172 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 4: even if he was homesick, could probably watch himself as 173 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 4: long as another adult was here, like you could watch 174 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 4: videos or whatever. It's like, we didn't need somebody with him. 175 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 4: But you know, you need more years of care for sure, 176 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 4: And so that's something to consider, particularly if they are 177 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 4: stretched out a long way. 178 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good point. The stretching out can 179 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 3: actually add to the cost, probably in more ways than one. 180 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 3: If you think about a more years of needing a babysitter. 181 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: We're going to get to logistics, but it makes logistics 182 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 3: a little bit more difficult as well, compared to maybe 183 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 3: having three kids within a four year span, which is 184 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 3: not that uncommon to have like a zero, two and 185 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: four year old or something like that. 186 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, and obviously if you plan to pay for college, 187 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 4: that will add you know, that's not a marginal cost. 188 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 4: I think that's a full another cost. 189 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: That there's no two for one discount, no two for 190 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: one discount usually. I don't know. Maybe you could find 191 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: someplace that would do that. I'm not sure. 192 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 4: I don't know it could happen, but yes, generally the 193 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 4: third will add a full third cost. So logistics the 194 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 4: more challenges that, you know, you want to think about 195 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 4: one thing we've found. You know, if you have two kids, 196 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 4: you can do a carpool with like neighbors. Right with three, 197 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 4: it's you just can't, like, you can't add three people 198 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 4: to anything. Like even if you're a house guest somewhere, 199 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 4: coming in with three children and the two of you 200 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 4: is like a lot of people to descend on anyone's house. 201 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 4: And some people have houses that can you know, take 202 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 4: it and you can put kids up in you know, 203 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 4: mattresses in a basement or in a playroom or whatever 204 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 4: if people have that. But it's just a lot of 205 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 4: you to go anywhere or to ask anyone else to 206 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 4: incorporate into their routine. So that does make it a 207 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 4: little bit more challenging. 208 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you have older family members that watch the kids, 209 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 3: there may be a certain number of kids where it 210 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 3: just gets past what they're able to comfortably handle. One 211 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 3: kid probably fine. Four kids if you're in your mid seventies, 212 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 3: that's that's a lot. 213 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: That's a lot. 214 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, you're going to have fewer relatives offering to babysit 215 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 4: when you have a bigger. 216 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: Family versus if you have one. 217 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 4: There's also just the logistics like of you know, we 218 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 4: have this under the category of logistics that we're thinking 219 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 4: of the different categories, but just logistics in general. Like 220 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 4: I can tell you that every week I am like 221 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 4: coordinating where five children are going at any given point 222 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 4: and who is driving them where, like what activities they have, 223 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 4: if somebody has days off. I mean, if you have 224 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 4: three or more kids who are spread out over a 225 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 4: certain number of years, they're going to be in different 226 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 4: schools for a certain number of that time. 227 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 1: Nless you're in one of those places that's a K 228 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: twelve school, in which case that's totally different. You don't 229 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: have this issue. 230 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 4: But the odds that at least at some point you're 231 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 4: going to have kids in at least two different schools 232 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 4: are very high once you have three or more kids, so. 233 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: They're different schedules. 234 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 4: Obviously, three kids, it's very difficult for all three to 235 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 4: be into the exact same thing. I'm not saying that 236 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 4: two would be either, but it might be at least 237 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 4: slightly easier to take one kid along to somebody else's 238 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 4: thing versus two, or coordinating where everybody is at they turn. 239 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 4: So you know, I wind up sending these weekly emails 240 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 4: with where everybody needs to be, all the rides, when 241 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 4: things move around, when lessons have to be shifted. You know, 242 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 4: it's just there's so many moving parts. And if this 243 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 4: is going to drive you crazy, that's something to consider. 244 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 4: Then maybe you you know, can have three kids, but 245 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 4: don't put. 246 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: Them in anything. 247 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 4: I guess that's you have to have more of a 248 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 4: minimalist family lifestyle. 249 00:11:58,160 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 5: Yeah. 250 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's a cost and a logistics issue. If 251 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 3: each kid is doing two paid activities and you have 252 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 3: four kids, that's a lot of monthly to like, you know, 253 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 3: I don't know, credit card charges that are just kind 254 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 3: of going through. It can really really add up. And 255 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: I have seen that, like our activities budget seems to 256 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 3: only be growing because the kids are getting older. So 257 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: I probably haven't even like gotten to the tip of 258 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 3: the iceberg. I'll mention summer camp. So in this area, 259 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 3: in South Florida, it's really common to send kids to 260 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 3: Sleepway Camp. You guys we talked about I sent Annabel 261 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 3: and Cameron went last year, and they're. 262 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: Doing something a little bit different this year. 263 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 3: But I have a lot of friends who like really 264 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 3: enjoy like a two or three week period perhaps where 265 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 3: their kids are entirely gone and out of the house 266 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 3: and they can go on a big trip with just 267 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: adults and you know, not worry about childcare. If your 268 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 3: kids have a decent sized age span, that will probably 269 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 3: never happen. Like, I don't see that in my future 270 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 3: because by the time Genevieve might be old enough to 271 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 3: consider Sleepwaycamp, I doubt that both the older kids are 272 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 3: going to want to go. And that's totally fine, Like, 273 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: I actually don't mind that, and I'm happy with how 274 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 3: our summer is turning out and the way that it's 275 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 3: going to be. But if that was like part of 276 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 3: your dream or what you imagined, having more kids, especially 277 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 3: the part that they are spaced out, is going to 278 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 3: make that less of a realistic proposition. 279 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's also harder to find activities where everyone's going 280 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 4: to be happy. There are very few things that all 281 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 4: five of my children enjoy. You know, There's been a 282 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 4: few that everyone seems to enjoy, but even just like 283 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 4: you know, going to an amusement park, like, let alone 284 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 4: corralling seven people through an amusement park, or the cost 285 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 4: of bringing seven people to an amusement park, like, they 286 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 4: can't go on the same rides, And so that's always 287 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 4: a question of who's going where and who wants to 288 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 4: do what, and you know, there's just a lot of 289 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 4: sort of give and take with that. 290 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm always on the lookout for. 291 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 4: Things that are allegedly fun for the whole family, but 292 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 4: there are not a whole lot of things that are 293 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 4: fun for the whole family. 294 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: So you know, you just kind of have to make 295 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: your peace with that. 296 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 3: When your kids are little, you think, oh, we're going 297 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: to like go to the playground forever, but like tweens 298 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 3: aren't going to be that excited about going to theody. 299 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: Sitting in the car on their. 300 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: Phone, Okay, but it just means it's one family outing 301 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: that doesn't work as well. 302 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's more challenging to get one on one time. 303 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 4: I think I've been doing a fairly good job of it. 304 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 4: But and I even do it every day. But you 305 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 4: can consider that my bedtime routine, you know, when I'm 306 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 4: putting kids to bed at you know, I'm turning out 307 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: the lights of ten o'clock. I'm going to four different 308 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 4: rooms at that point and talking with four different people, 309 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 4: you know, about their days and all that stuff. And 310 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 4: as an introverted person, that's occasionally a little bit challenging 311 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 4: because at that point, I'm like, I don't want to 312 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 4: talk to anyone. But I'm like, well, this is when 313 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 4: my kids want to talk to me. So I'm going 314 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 4: to dig deep and be be good about it and 315 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 4: be grateful that they are willing to chat with me. 316 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: But it's a lot, it's a lot of people, totally. 317 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: Just keep saying that. 318 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 4: It's a lot of people, you know, not even when 319 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 4: they're just the babies, but they're there for years and 320 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 4: years and years. But I tend to think that's a 321 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 4: good thing, which is what we will get to after 322 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 4: the break, all right, we are back talking about things 323 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 4: to consider if you're going to have a third child, 324 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 4: or if you're going to you know, if you have 325 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 4: a third KAD and you're thinking of having a fourth. 326 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: Or fifth, or heck a six. We've got listeners with. 327 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 4: All of those I know for sure. Maybe even more 328 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 4: part of this. I sign up for this Facebook group 329 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 4: called Large Family Tricks of the Trade, and it's really fascinating. 330 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 4: I think if anyone is in a big Family category, 331 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 4: so you'd qualify for that list. 332 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: It's interesting to. 333 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 4: See the different challenges and things people come up with. 334 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 4: So I'll put that one out there. 335 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: But so things that might be more neutral. 336 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 4: We've been talking in the beginning about some of the 337 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 4: challenges and things to consider, the sheer logistics and cost 338 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 4: of having a lot of kids. Things that might be 339 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 4: more neutral. So career considerations. I'm going to throw out 340 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 4: that this might be more neutral. Now to be sure, 341 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 4: if you have three children versus two, and you are 342 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 4: the one giving birth to them. But even if you're 343 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 4: adopting or whatever, you're going to have some sort of 344 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 4: leave out as you're adjusting with a child being part 345 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 4: of your home, So there's more leaves, so time out 346 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 4: of the workforce. Three children get sick more than two 347 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 4: children get sick, although they tend get sick roughly the 348 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 4: same time. I mean, so it's just that it extends 349 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 4: a little bit for each bout of illness. So there's 350 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 4: more years with interrupted sleep and all that, and all 351 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 4: those things can be challenging, and so there is some 352 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 4: data that women with three or more kids are less 353 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 4: likely to be in the workforce, But I think that 354 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 4: is a lot of preference driving that versus actual causal effect. 355 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 4: Like I think many people who want larger families were 356 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 4: more oriented toward that as their life goal, I guess maybe, 357 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 4: and so they weren't necessarily deeply into the workforce anyway, right, 358 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 4: Like that, they were looking more to exit for a 359 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 4: while and be the mother of this large brood. Whereas 360 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 4: if you have gotten to two and your career is 361 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 4: going great with two, I don't think the third is 362 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 4: necessarily going to be a thing that would make a 363 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 4: high powered, love working mom decide to leave. 364 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 3: Right Sarah, Yes, I mean, and there's so many examples 365 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 3: of this, not just be but I think of so 366 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 3: many of our listeners and Patreon members, former guests. Rebecca 367 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 3: Fike of lag Live. I mean, she's got three kids 368 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 3: and now she's working a really really big law type 369 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 3: of a job, and she's really thriving doing that. So 370 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 3: there's absolutely nothing out there that says that you cannot 371 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 3: have three plus children and a very significant career path. 372 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 3: I also wonder, if you know, if you have a 373 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 3: career that you really like, and particularly one that provides 374 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 3: decent compensation, having more than two kids might actually kind 375 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 3: of prevent you from cheaping out on childcare, Like you know, 376 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 3: especially if you have a younger kid for longer, you're 377 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 3: more likely to go the nanny route, which might actually 378 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 3: lead to more worktime flexibility than perhaps if you had 379 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 3: two kids who are a little bit older, and you're 380 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: kind of like, Okay, I think they're fine in the aftercare, 381 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 3: but then I have to get there by six pm. 382 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 5: Because I have definitely. 383 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 3: Enjoyed having increased flexibility by keeping the more full time 384 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 3: childcare as the kids are older, because it means that 385 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 3: in the evenings, if I need to go to a 386 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 3: work event that's late or a fun event that's late, 387 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 3: then I'm able to do that. So yeah, it's kind 388 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 3: of like a backwards way of thinking about it. And personally, 389 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 3: I mean, I've taken three maternity leaves. None of them 390 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 3: are that long because they're just not that long. In 391 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 3: the industry where I work. I mean, they're like ten 392 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 3: to twelve weeks each and it's just such a blip 393 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 3: on the radar when you consider how many weeks I 394 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 3: have not taken maternity leave for and so I just 395 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 3: feel like it goes fast and the work is still 396 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 3: there when you're finished. Generally, I've never felt like I 397 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 3: missed anything those years right after the years like right 398 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 3: after babies are tough. They're absolutely tough, but at the 399 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 3: same time, like they're still not comprising the chunk of 400 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 3: my working years. 401 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's a small blip in the grand scheme 402 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 4: of things. And even the baby years are pretty short. 403 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 4: I mean they're they're rough. But you know, if you 404 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 4: had three children and they were more than two years apart, 405 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 4: and you know, then you'd have six years where you 406 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 4: had a kid under the age of two, right, I mean, 407 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 4: this is just math. And if they were less than 408 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 4: two years apart, then you have less than six years 409 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 4: with kids under the age of two. 410 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: So it it. 411 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 4: Just doesn't you know, versus the entirety of your life, 412 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 4: like the eighty years your career you might be and 413 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 4: even your career life like let's say you finish all 414 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 4: of your training and graduate school whatever by thirty and 415 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 4: you work until least sixty that's thirty years. 416 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 3: Okay, six of them were really rough and you took 417 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 3: thirty six total weeks of leave. I mean well, in 418 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 3: other countries you would take more, but in the US 419 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 3: it's like it's like nothing compared to the overall arc 420 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 3: of things. 421 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, So if you are pondering that, like, well, a 422 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 4: third maternity leave tank your career, we would say no. 423 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 4: And if you think it will let your company, you 424 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 4: should go find a different company to work for that 425 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 4: would value you much more. There are some awesome things 426 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 4: about having lots of kids. I mean, I know, like 427 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 4: having a big brood has just been fun, like all 428 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 4: because they're all cool people, like I mean, I enjoy 429 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 4: getting to know them. And so it's like, you know, 430 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 4: you're thinking about having a third like this third kid 431 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 4: will be an awesome person in your life, like for 432 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 4: the rest of your life, and I mean most likely, 433 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 4: I mean, I guess you know, things could go horribly right, 434 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 4: but it just most likely this will be a person 435 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 4: that is as awesome as your other two kids that 436 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 4: you will then get to experience and that you know 437 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 4: will be in the world and doing whatever cool things 438 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 4: they are doing in the world. There's just I mean, 439 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 4: even when they're little, there are cool things like the 440 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 4: fact that I'm seeing my older children help with my 441 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 4: younger ones and even just playing together. It's been really 442 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 4: cool to see sort of Alex take on a leadership 443 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 4: role with Henry, you know, teaching him stuff or trying 444 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 4: to get him to do stuff. And of course, you know, 445 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 4: Henry idolizes Alex, which is good to have that because 446 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 4: when you're the littlest of the sort of big four, 447 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 4: the older three may not be treating you with that 448 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 4: kind of deference that the three year old is then 449 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 4: giving you. So there's just allows for so many different 450 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 4: dynamics and interpersonal relationships, and people can take on different 451 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 4: roles kind of in a bigger family in a way 452 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 4: that you might not have as much if there are 453 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 4: only two children. So yeah, that's something I've enjoyed seeing. 454 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and there is that like helpful factor. And I 455 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 3: don't necessarily even mean like, you know, putting your older 456 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 3: ones to work babysitting, but like I was just thinking, 457 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 3: like I was dropping off Cameron today and I'm like 458 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 3: kind of left Genevieve and Annabelle like waiting for me, 459 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 3: and I wouldn't have felt comfortable just leaving Genevieve, but 460 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 3: because it was for like one minute, because it was 461 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 3: both of them, I'm like, Okay, they're fine. Like there's 462 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 3: something about having two or like taking both of them 463 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 3: to treader Joe's a lot of times is easier than 464 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 3: taking just Genevieve, because like, I just have that extra 465 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 3: set of hands, the extra pair of eyes, and so 466 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 3: even when you're not again putting them quote unquote in charge, 467 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 3: sometimes just a kind of mid sized person helping you 468 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 3: with your kindergartener can be can be really really helpful 469 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 3: and really heartwarming to see. Yesterday I was forget what 470 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 3: I was doing. I had just gotten home from work 471 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 3: and kind of will actually help Genevieve like practice piano. 472 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 5: It was the cutest thing. 473 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so no, that is really cute. 474 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 4: You tend to have as you have a larger family, 475 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 4: put various processes in place that make any individual thing, 476 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 4: for any individual kid slightly less of a big deal. 477 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: And the first one it. 478 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 4: Still is like so we are now currently figuring out 479 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 4: the driving thing, right, Like that's not you know, we 480 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 4: have to figure out how do you get your permit 481 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 4: and how do. 482 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: You teach a kid how to drive? 483 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 4: But we've been through toilet training four times already, and 484 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 4: you know, so the fifth kid, it's he's taking his time, 485 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 4: but I'm pretty sure it will happen, you know, or 486 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 4: transitioning from a crib to a big kid bad or 487 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 4: registering them for public school kindergarten. I've now done it 488 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 4: four times, and I'll have to do it a fifth 489 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 4: time in another year or so. But it's it's like 490 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 4: I've done it, like all of these things, and I 491 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 4: like it too. 492 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: A lot of stuff with kids, Like when you're doing it. 493 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 4: With one kid, it's almost like buying property or something 494 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 4: like if you've never bought a house before, it seems 495 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 4: like this whole huge deal like when you're doing it, 496 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 4: But people who are then like real estate investors, do 497 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 4: it again and again and again, and they're sort of 498 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 4: used to it, right, so it's just not that big 499 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 4: a deal each individual time for them, and I get it. 500 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 4: That's sometimes what I feel like with some of our processes, 501 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 4: Like you know, if a kid wants to do this activity, 502 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 4: I'm like, well, I already know that there are two 503 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 4: places in town that can do it, so I could 504 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,479 Speaker 4: go sign them up for one of them, or you know, 505 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 4: various different things, or here's where I'm going to keep 506 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 4: all the medical forms so I can sign this kid 507 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 4: up for camp, and I know that this camp requires this, 508 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 4: so I've already got it ready to go. And you know, 509 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 4: you just develop certain efficiencies. The more kids you do, 510 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 4: you become more of an expert on all of it. 511 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 3: And you also probably judge yourself less that things go 512 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 3: differently because you have more of that perspective that we 513 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 3: mentioned many times, like, well, that kid didn't read the manual. 514 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 3: Like if you have one child and toilet training goes 515 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 3: very poorly or it takes a really long time, you 516 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 3: might beat yourself up. But if you have five kids 517 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 3: and one kid went really fast and one kid went 518 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 3: really so, then you're like you have that perspective. You're like, oh, 519 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 3: it's nothing that I did, it's just the kid. They're 520 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 3: different and I know the process and I'm okay, and 521 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 3: the whole thing yet just becomes less of a thing, just. 522 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: Less of a big deal, less of a big deal. 523 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 4: We love that big family, crowded table feeling. The Brandon 524 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 4: Carlisle song. 525 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 5: I love that song. 526 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 4: Well, just you know, considering with things, like you know, 527 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 4: it's not just how hard are the baby years, it's 528 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 4: how many people do you want to have around your 529 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 4: table when they're older? Like when you know, how many 530 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 4: kids would you like to be you have a table, 531 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 4: you know, a kitchen full of teenagers coming back from 532 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 4: something and talking with you about things. 533 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. 534 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 4: It's just a very different feeling than when they were little. 535 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 4: But it's nice to have more of them, I guess 536 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 4: in my sense, I love having that big, full house feeling. 537 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 4: I guess at some point it has to staff Like Sarah, 538 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 4: you decided not to do number four. 539 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've had no like I mean, I guess 540 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 3: if you're thinking about whether to have a third and 541 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 3: you're worried that you're just gonna always always have an 542 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 3: impulse for more children, I guess I can tell you 543 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 3: that like for me, that wasn't the case. But I 544 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 3: feel like we have just enough chaos, and I really 545 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 3: do enjoy I enjoy going to a restaurant and like 546 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 3: having having like to get the bigger table, and like 547 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 3: just having a little bit more going on. So I 548 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 3: do enjoy that and yeah, yeah, no, no deserve for 549 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 3: further expansion. 550 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, well we're not having a sixth in case 551 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 4: anyone was wondering at some point you do, in fact 552 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 4: stop and five feels big enough for us. But even sorry, 553 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm looking forward to what that'll mean in 554 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 4: future generations too. I was, I don't know if anyone's 555 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 4: seen this, because it got shared around a fair amount, 556 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 4: so regardless what if you think of as postics. But 557 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 4: Senator Mitt Romney is, you know, has five children, and 558 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 4: his sons have all had many children themselves, and they 559 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 4: sent around a Christmas card last year, like with the 560 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 4: whole clan, and it's really quite a shot. And I 561 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 4: was like, oh, well, you know, maybe that could be 562 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 4: my family. I don't think my children will have quite 563 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 4: as many children as the Romney sons have turned. 564 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: Out to have, but they could. 565 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,959 Speaker 4: And but even if they even have you know, two 566 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 4: or three apiece, that's still you know, ten to fifteen 567 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 4: grandkids or whatever that you know, we'd all be around 568 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 4: and have that large family dynamic. 569 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: Which I just think would be really cool. 570 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 4: Like I'd love to have huge gatherings of you know, 571 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 4: your people in the future. 572 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: So I don't know. 573 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 4: If that appeals to you, then we would tell you 574 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 4: that the tough part is early and then you start 575 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 4: getting a lot of the payoff of having these cool 576 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 4: people in your life. And of course that's what you 577 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 4: when people are who probably want to have a third 578 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 4: kid are asking Sarah and me this question, like, obviously, 579 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 4: neither of us is going to be like, well, yeah, 580 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 4: that was a huge mistake. Life would have been so 581 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 4: much better if I hadn't had that third kid. Like, 582 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 4: we love it, right, We love having these big families, 583 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 4: and we have not in whatever the cultural narrative is 584 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 4: out there, we have not in any way found that 585 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 4: it has limited our other ambitions, you know, and part 586 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 4: of that is choosing careers that you know. We'd also 587 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 4: encourage women, you know that you want to go for 588 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 4: bigger jobs as well, because then that gives you more 589 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 4: resources to get the help you need. But if you 590 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 4: do want a bigger family, it might be better to 591 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 4: go for both of those, right then, maybe something that's 592 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 4: you know, more challenging to combine work in life because 593 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 4: you have less authority and seniority over your career and 594 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 4: things like that. 595 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just thinking about the math problem of 596 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 3: like if each of your kids had five kids, because 597 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 3: that's what they were used to, So you'd have five 598 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 3: grandchildren and I'd only have nine, and that's just such 599 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 3: a huge difference. But I guess the truth is, like 600 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 3: that's how it works, right, It's like three K five cubes, 601 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 3: six cubes, seven cubes pours does work, Sarah, So I 602 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 3: think that's what that's why the Mitt Romney photo looks 603 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 3: the way it does. 604 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does. It does. 605 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 3: Sorry, I was like lost in this like multiplication, multiplication 606 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 3: of it. 607 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 4: But yes, if if five children have five children apiece, 608 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 4: then that's twenty five. And if you know, at that 609 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 4: point they're older, I mean because he's you know, seventies, 610 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 4: so some of them their children are getting married, and. 611 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: Right like it's completely each having their five, so they 612 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: like we wind up with one hundred and twenty five 613 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: and the next generation. It just keeps going. It just 614 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: keeps going. So should we sorry, we wrap this up, Yeah, 615 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: we should wrap it up. 616 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 3: I guess we're not going to actually like answer this 617 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 3: question specifically because we think this is a question to 618 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 3: think about maybe in private or with your partner. But 619 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 3: one thing that might be an interesting thought experiment was 620 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 3: to just ask yourself, like, how would you feel if 621 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 3: you were accidentally pregnant right now? Like that could be 622 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 3: an interesting litmus test. And Laura came up with us. 623 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 3: By the way, she should get all the credit, but 624 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 3: I'm reading it and I think it's like a nice 625 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 3: way to just like put yourself in that position and 626 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 3: think through all the possibilities. 627 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, because if you are pondering having a third and 628 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 4: so this is a potential for the future. So if 629 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 4: you woke up tomorrow and I was like, whoa, I 630 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 4: recognize those symptoms and it turned out that you were 631 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 4: in fact expecting a third tomorrow, what would be your 632 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 4: thoughts about that. Would you be like very very excited, 633 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 4: like well, I didn't make an active decision, but like woohoo, 634 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 4: like yes, this is what I totally wanted. Or would 635 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 4: you be more feeling trepidation, like how am I going 636 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 4: to be able to go through with this? And this 637 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 4: is just you know, I'm not sure I can deal 638 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 4: with this. This is, you know, not something I'm very 639 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 4: excited about. If you're feeling that way, then that's something 640 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 4: to definitely consider as you are looking forward to making 641 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 4: this decis because Obviously, you don't have to have a 642 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 4: third either, even if you come from a larger family. 643 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 4: You know, even if you're one of five and all 644 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 4: your siblings have five, you absolutely do not have to 645 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 4: do that. 646 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 2: You know. 647 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 4: It's perfectly wonderful to have two kids, to have one kid, 648 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 4: to have no kids. Right, there are many ways to 649 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 4: have a happy life. So considering how you might feel 650 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 4: in that situation could be a good way to test 651 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 4: this out on a gut level of whether you'd like 652 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 4: to go for a third or not, or fourth or 653 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 4: a fifth. I'm glad I am not expecting a sixth 654 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 4: thorough so could throw that out there all right, So 655 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 4: question the listener question this week. This listener says, I 656 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 4: am headed away on summer vacation. Can you share your 657 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 4: favorite family packing hacks. 658 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 3: Well, I will say that the biggest thing that has 659 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 3: made the difference for us is having the kids have 660 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 3: luggage that they can handle themselves, because it is such 661 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 3: a game changer lugging your kids stuff around the airport 662 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 3: versus them doing it. Jenevie's five, and she now has 663 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 3: like a small backpack that we usually put all the 664 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 3: kids I've hads in and she can carry it just 665 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 3: fine and a small rolling bag, and watching her walk 666 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 3: through the airport like with her stuff and everybody just 667 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 3: having their own stuff. 668 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, it was like the best. I just 669 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 5: loved it so much. 670 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 3: So I would say working on trying to get your kids, 671 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 3: you know. Obviously, if they're one and two, that's that's 672 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 3: a different story. But if they're kind of preschool asian up, 673 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 3: if you try, you can often find luggage kind of 674 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 3: scaled to them that will help them help you, and 675 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 3: that makes things a lot easier. 676 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm currently packing at the moment when we're recording 677 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 4: this episode, which we have a couple things like, I 678 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 4: firmly believe that you should not check bags if it 679 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 4: is all possible not to. We may need to because 680 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 4: I think Michael's got to bring his diving stuff, so 681 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 4: that's a different matter. But you can just get through 682 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 4: airports quicker and you are less likely to lose your stuff, 683 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 4: right because you can pack the best packing in the world, 684 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 4: and the airline loses your luggage for forty eight hours, 685 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 4: you don't have any of it, right, So do not overpack, 686 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 4: like unless you are going to a total wilderness area, 687 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 4: and if you are going to a total wilderness area, 688 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 4: I guess is like you're backpacking or something anyway, in 689 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 4: which case you don't want much stuff regardless. Right, So 690 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 4: if you are going to a place with civilization, right, 691 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 4: you will be able to buy more diapers, You will 692 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 4: be able to buy an extra bottle if you decide 693 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 4: you need an extra bottle, if you need an extra 694 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 4: sweatshirt because it was colder than when you thought, you 695 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 4: know you were going, Like I mean, I always bring sweatshirts, 696 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 4: even if we're going somewhere like tropical and hot and 697 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 4: everything like that, because I feel like, you know, you'll 698 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 4: be in the air conditioning somewhere and it'll be cold. 699 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 4: But if you need an extra sweatshirt, like my guess is, 700 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 4: there's going to be a store that will sell them 701 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 4: to you. Right, and then you get a soven air 702 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 4: of your trip with you know the name of that 703 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 4: place that you went on your sweatshirt. So not overpacking 704 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 4: because you will be able to get almost all of 705 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 4: this stuff. I think is just been very important for 706 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 4: us because then we can just go through the airport 707 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 4: with our things, get off the plane, and go where 708 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 4: we're going. 709 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: We don't worry. 710 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 4: About having so much stuff, Like we just have what 711 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 4: we need for the day. So as part of that, 712 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 4: you really got to think through the outfits who are 713 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 4: actually going to wear. I think some people who overpack 714 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 4: sort of assume they'll need everything so they can make 715 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 4: their choices from their normal wardrobe. 716 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: Don't do that. 717 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 4: Actually think through what you will wear on every day 718 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 4: and pack those things right, Like, don't have it be like, well, 719 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 4: well I feel like wearing on Thursday, Like this is 720 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 4: what you're going to feel like wearing on Thursday, which 721 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 4: is what you've decided to bring for Thursday. Though even then, 722 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 4: like if you're renting a house, it'll have laundry, like 723 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 4: it'll have you know, so you can do a load 724 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 4: of laundry on vacation if you needed to. So yeah, 725 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 4: I would just say less stuff is. 726 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: Generally the way to go. 727 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 4: And you know, but if you have young kids, make 728 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 4: sure you have an ex stra a pair of clothes 729 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 4: for everybody, like relatively accessible. 730 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 5: Just put that out there. 731 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 3: I agree with everything, especially Yeah, we've become such a 732 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 3: carry on family. Really avoid checking unless there's some very 733 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 3: specific reason. It's just so much easier to just be 734 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 3: able to just get up and go when you bland 735 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 3: it and not have to like everyone's at their crankiest 736 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 3: after a fight and it's not when I want to 737 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 3: be standing next day around my stuff will actually make 738 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 3: it all right. 739 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 4: So love of the Week, Sarah, Mine is going to 740 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 4: be one on one trips with my kids. So you know, 741 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 4: we've talked about it can be harder to spend individual 742 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 4: time with your kids, but we've both kind of made 743 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,439 Speaker 4: it a priority to do so. And I actually took 744 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 4: Sam on a trip to Acadia and Maine Bar Harbor, 745 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 4: Maine for a couple of days in June, and it 746 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 4: was a lot of fun. This was his Christmas present, 747 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 4: and I guess combo mommy Day, which some of the 748 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 4: older children may have said that I've really like up 749 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 4: the game on it now. I think they're expecting stuff 750 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 4: like this to im, like, well, you ask for it 751 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 4: for Christmas, then like, ask for it for Christmas and 752 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 4: then you know we can we can work something out. 753 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 4: But yeah, it was a lot of fun. 754 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: We had a great. 755 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 4: Time, and it's good to get to spend someone on 756 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 4: one time with one child and you talk to them 757 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 4: more than you would otherwise. 758 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: So big fan of that. 759 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 3: How about you Sarah, I love that, and yeah, I 760 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 3: like the Okay, if you want a trip for your 761 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 3: one on one day, that better be like a Christmas 762 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 3: present because that's not just like a freebee that you 763 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 3: get automatically. 764 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 5: Totally makes sense. 765 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to go with my inkwoll Press Disbound planner 766 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 3: that I'm using these days that I had from twenty 767 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 3: twenty and actually like bought new inserts for and haven't 768 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 3: really played with Disbound for a long time. It's kind 769 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 3: of fun to be able to take things out for 770 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 3: your planner and move them around. So if you want 771 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 3: to hear more about that, I think there would have 772 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 3: already been about laid plans episode released. 773 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 5: On that, but I am loving it right now, so 774 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 5: it's my love of the week. 775 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, this has been best of both worlds. 776 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 4: We've been talking about things to consider if you were 777 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 4: pondering having a third kid or I guess a fourth 778 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 4: or a fifth and so on. We will be back 779 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 4: next week with more on making work and life fit together. 780 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. 781 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 782 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram. 783 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 2: And you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 784 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 2: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 785 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 2: join us next time for more on making work and 786 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 2: life work together.