1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psycopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: Aim Marion Ralston in two thousand and three got trapped 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 2: by a boulder, was the bottom of a canyon for 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 2: six days alone, and to amputate my arm with a 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: dull multitool pocket knife in order to escape. Ever since 7 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: that time, I've been sharing about my experience that not 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: just that I was the guy that cut his arm off, 9 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 2: but that I'm the guy who is smiling when he 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: cut his arm off, and how that perspective can help 11 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 2: us no matter what sort of adversity we come up 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: against in our lives. 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people his lives were 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: forever altered after having all my died. These are first 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: hand accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: with death. Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: these stories to remind us all of our shared human condition. 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: Please keep in mind these stories are true and maybe 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: triggering for some listener, and discretion is advised. 21 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,919 Speaker 2: Going back into my backgrounds, I was a very intelligent 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: child growing up that I was accelerated in school gifted 23 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: and talented programs, skipped first grade. Also, then, what that 24 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,279 Speaker 2: meant was I was a year even two years younger 25 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: than a lot of my peers my cohort through elementary school. 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: My family moved to Colorado from the Midwest in nineteen 27 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: eighty seven. I was eleven years old and starting middle 28 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: school again, as a new kid from out of state 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 2: and being in a family that was decidedly on the 30 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: aspiring end of middle class. I wore a lot of 31 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: clothes that my mom had helped me get at garage sales. So, 32 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: just to paint the picture I was, I was a 33 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: different kind of a kid, very easily made. Other was 34 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: the target of bullying, being ostracized, excluded, and thereby, over 35 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: time even taking on some of these sensibilities that I 36 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: was not cool enough. I decided, over the course of 37 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: those formative years my adolescence then as well, that I 38 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 2: was going to become the best academic that I could 39 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: be and use that as both my source of self 40 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: esteem and eventually to create a career and maybe even 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: a life for myself. That I would show those bullies 42 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: who was really the best. You're getting the idea too 43 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: that there was. There was some metal health struggles along 44 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: the way for me, dealing with anxiety depression, especially around 45 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: the ideas that I belonged, that I deserved, that I 46 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: was worthy and enough. And after college it came clear 47 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: to me that mountaineering, in the books that I was reading, 48 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: the adventures and misadventures that I was immersing myself in, 49 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: that was my proving ground. I was out of college 50 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: and I was suggesting to myself that, oh, I want 51 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: to continue to climb these mountains we have in Colorado. 52 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: They're called the fourteen Ors fourteen thousand feet high that many, 53 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: many thousands of people have climbed them all in the summertime. 54 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: There's a list of varying lists between fifty five I 55 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: count fifty nine ranked or named summits above fourteen thousand 56 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: feet here in Colorado, so we have the most of 57 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: any state in in the country, even more than in Alaska. 58 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: And I wanted to do them, though in a way 59 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: as the ego would have it, to one up anybody 60 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: else that had ever done all of this. There have 61 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: been a couple people who as partners, had climbed all 62 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 2: of the fourteen Ers in the winter time calendar Winner 63 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 2: between the Solstice and Meet Knox, but no one had 64 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: ever climbed them all solo in the Winner. There's my project. 65 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 2: This is the way I'm going to prove that I'm 66 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: better than everybody else. I am a hardcore, that I'm cooler, 67 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: that I have shown those bullies what's up. That winter 68 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: I started, and the adventures built, the misadventures built, The 69 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: risks that I took increased. They start fretted with the 70 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: ones that were moderate, then got to more advanced, extreme 71 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: and even orderlying suicidal in time that over these years 72 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: I also got to a place where I realized I 73 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: need to be living in and amongst the heart of 74 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: and like living in the soul place of these mountains. 75 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: I quit my career. I was a mechanical engineer working 76 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 2: for Intel Corporation for these years, and left that all behind. 77 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: Moved to Aspen, Colorado, where I took a job at 78 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: a mountaineering shop. It's pretty much, you know, way overqualified, 79 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: but at the entry level, to just make my minimum wage, 80 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 2: live in the place that I wanted to live all 81 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 2: my dreams and climb these mountains to the extent that 82 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: when I came back from several of these climbs. It 83 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: was front page news and the local newspapers that world 84 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: class mountaineers were saying that I was accomplishing, you know, 85 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 2: world class mountaineering achievements, and so the accolades were there, 86 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: The proof was there that I was doing something worthy, 87 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: that I must be worthy. And it was also a 88 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 2: time where I was truly discovering what I was capable of. 89 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 2: Reading these books like John Cracker's Story Into an Air 90 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: that wondering who would you be if you were out 91 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 2: there in that storm? Would you be, you know, the 92 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: guide that goes back into the storm to help rescue others. 93 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 2: Would you be one of the guides who huddles down 94 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 2: with a group that lost in the storm to survive 95 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: and not bring as many of them back to camp 96 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: as you could. Would you be the guide that fits 97 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: with his client until the client dies, and then the 98 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: guide dies too, so weakened by having spent his life 99 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: force there in companionship. I was having experiences that revealed 100 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: these same kinds of answers to these questions about what 101 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: would you do if you were out there and your 102 00:06:52,720 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: life were online. I was encountering avalanches, rock fall, blizzard, conditions, 103 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: hypothermia of prostbite, even encounters with wild animals along the way, 104 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: and all of this building my sense of capacity, and 105 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: for somebody in their mid twenties, I think you can 106 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: also imagine that the more you overcome, the more you're 107 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: somewhat proven to yourself that, oh, I really am invincible, 108 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: I can do anything. I also recognized that I was 109 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: taking incredible risks and that that required a hardness to me. 110 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: I had friends, but I didn't have romantic relationships that 111 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: because I felt like in a way that it would 112 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: be a distraction that I couldn't take the risk that 113 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: I needed to take in my mountaineering project and put 114 00:07:54,040 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 2: a relationship at risk like that. This leads us up 115 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: to the spring of two thousand and three, when I 116 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: was done with my winter climbs for the season that 117 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: I still had fourteen of the fifty nine mountains left 118 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: living in Aspen, and I went out to the desert 119 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: for some vacation time at a five day break from 120 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: working in the shop and taking all these crazy risks 121 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: out in the mountains, And by day three of this vacation, 122 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: I embarked on what would have been probably a twelve 123 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 2: hour outing a fifteen mile mountain bike ride along the 124 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: mesa top dirt road systems that are out on the 125 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: west side of Canyon Lands National Park to the head 126 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 2: of Blue John Canyon, and I was then going to 127 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: hike fifteen miles down through the canyon system to get 128 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: back to my vehicle. By the end of the day 129 00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: it was about noon. Then in the middle of the afternoon, 130 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: I was on my own in the canyon six seven 131 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: miles a long. By two thirty I get to a 132 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: low slot in the in the canyon system, and that's 133 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: where I would eventually, in short short order, meet my 134 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: destiny with a particular boulder. My state of mind on 135 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 2: that Saturday morning, it was April twenty sixth two thousand 136 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: and three. I was alone. But two days prior, I 137 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: had climbed and skied almost thirteen thousand foot high mountain 138 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: outside of Carbondale, Colorado, called Mount Sopras with a friend. 139 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: We'd had a great time together. I had done a 140 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 2: canyon hike and a significant bike ride on a slick 141 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 2: rock trail, which is very popular. I was around a 142 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 2: lot of people. On the Friday before Saturday, I was out. 143 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 2: I was on my own. I did encounter too young 144 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 2: whenmen who were also out in Sant Canyon in the 145 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: first half of the day, for those first couple of hours, 146 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 2: we descended the upper slot of the canyon together. But 147 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: then being on my own, I was in a very 148 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: happy place. I was listening to a favorite band, Fish Wow, 149 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 2: live recording of their concerts, and I would record or 150 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: trade recordings with others, so I had CDs of a 151 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: concert i'd been out just a few months before playing 152 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: in my headphones as I'm walking through the desert with 153 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: my walkman that I just was out in a very 154 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 2: remote area, but completely at peace and at eades and 155 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 2: moving efficiently through the canyon, so without any sounds of forefloating. 156 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 2: I just ended some very challenging sections of canyon up 157 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: above with Megan and Christy, these two new friends who 158 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 2: then they left to get back to their shuttle. I 159 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: wanted to do the big drop repel, this big sixty 160 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: five foot repel. Boulders fall into the canon, get moved 161 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 2: by flash floods, wedge between walls, debrief piles up behind them, 162 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: and then they'll have a drop off the dry fall 163 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 2: or would be a waterfall, when then there's a flash 164 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: flood event. Downstream of this drop, there were other rocks 165 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: that it tumbled and beyond wedge, so there's a cascade 166 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: of boulders blocking the immediate descent there. But those those 167 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: rocks wedged between the walls down lower are kind of 168 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: an intermediate staircase. You can sort of imagine that I'm 169 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: standing almost on the roof low roof of a house, 170 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: dangling from the gutter and having to get down to 171 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 2: the ground. I get to where I'm now lowered, and 172 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: I'm hanging onto the rock that's at the highest point 173 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: I'd been standing on it, And just as I'm about 174 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: to be able to reach out to the next boulder 175 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: with my feet to then climb down the last few steps, 176 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: there the very large rock, this three and a half 177 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 2: foot diameter boulder that I was dangling from, pulls loose. 178 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: I dropped to the bottom of the canyon. The boulder's 179 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: falling from my head. I put my hands up to 180 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 2: try to protect myself, and in that moment, the boulder 181 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: smashes into my hands and it snares my right arm. 182 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: This gap between the boulder and the wall. Just before 183 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: then the walls of the canyon taper down to the 184 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: constriction right in front of my chest. The boulders wedged 185 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 2: between the walls once more, but about seven feet lower down, 186 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: right in front of my torso, and with my hand 187 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: crushed from the wrist down to the fingertips, and this 188 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: impossibly small shadow between the boulder and the canyon wall. 189 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 2: I was standing in the bottom of the canyon. My 190 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: feet had hit the ground before I became trapped, so 191 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: I was standing in a very narrow part of the spot. 192 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 2: It was barely more than the width of both of 193 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: my feet, fourteen sixteen inches across there where my shoulders were. 194 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 2: The canyon widened just a little bit that it was 195 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: less than three feet, though across it was really just 196 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 2: a few inches more broad than my shoulders. There's debris 197 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: rocks above me. There's some smaller rocks down below, no 198 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 2: standing water. As I'm standing there and the rock has 199 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: falling on me, there's first a panic. I'm enraged, the pain. 200 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: They are drownale. I spend almost an hour trying to 201 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 2: brute force my way through and rick my arm for 202 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: your yeah, push the rock, lift it, punch it, trace, 203 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: added all of it, just try to get it to 204 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: let me go. But I understand immediately that I am 205 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 2: in a terribly profoundly difficult situation, that no one's coming 206 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: for help, and that this will kill me over time 207 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: if I can't get free. As I process and I'm 208 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 2: finally able to get myself calmed down, start thinking, taking 209 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 2: deep breaths, doing what I didn't really know but was 210 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 2: kind of a meditative practice here to clear the adrenaline, 211 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: to clear the emotions and the unhelpful thoughts, and to 212 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: really start looking at this as an engineer, as a 213 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: problem solver. I'm using brainstorming techniques practice that very much 214 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: at my wheelhouse, applying those kinds of more structured and 215 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: rational higher brain functioning to this situation. I had knowledge 216 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 2: to stop and stop as an accronate I even use 217 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: in this general kind of crisis management protocol where you stop, 218 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 2: you take those deep breasts and then t think that 219 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 2: you start engaging your higher brain and going through yes 220 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: like a ration system, oh, making observations, coming up with 221 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: the options, and p deciding on a plant. It's a 222 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: very rudimentary rubric there, but yeah, to stop and start 223 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: applying this process, which I was able to do, and 224 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: coming up with, okay, the observations of how I was trapped, 225 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 2: the observations of what do I have with me, the 226 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: contents of my backpack, the time, day, the weekend, the setting, 227 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: the likelihoods of like somebody coming across me or an 228 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: intentional rescue finding me. I'm processing all of this, and 229 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: I'm also simultaneously thinking of like, oh, could I signal 230 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: passing aircraft? Could I use my my belongings to start 231 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 2: of fire and send smoke signals? Did I try to 232 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: use a mirror to reflect light, shouting for help? That 233 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: just anything and everything? Using the rocks down by my 234 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: feet to try to smash into the bigger boulder to 235 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 2: get me free, using of course, very short order, coming 236 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: to the idea I was going to have to use 237 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 2: the pocket knife that I had, Oh, maybe to carve 238 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: through the rock and excavate my aunt, but also I 239 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 2: might have to cut my arm off. I think I 240 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 2: was simultaneously both trying to come from a place of 241 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: calm as opposed to panic and addressing the anxiety by 242 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: being creative that I was trying to come up with options. 243 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: I'm absorbing the information that's around me, and I don't 244 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: I don't think you can very do that very well. 245 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: When you are hyper aroused, when you're in a state 246 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: perhaps you know, a fight or flight kind of level 247 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: panic that nor can you do it when you're under aroused. 248 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 2: Like the one of the fight or flight mechanisms we 249 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 2: also have is that you go to sleep. It's just 250 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: it's all too much. You shut down. You have to 251 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: be in a somewhat optimized place, so to compartmentalize for 252 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: me in the moment, to set aside the pain and 253 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: the trigger that that was releasing in my body, my brain, 254 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 2: these neuro kind of flos of course, that are just 255 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: like agitating me more. I liken it to an alarm 256 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: that's going off. If we've ever been at a gate 257 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 2: the airport and somebody triggers the door and it's like 258 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 2: making just this horrendous noise that after enough minutes go by, 259 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: like you kind of stop hearing it as much and 260 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: you go back to what you're doing. And then finally 261 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: when it stops five minutes later, they get the security 262 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 2: person that you turn it off, and everybody's like, oh, 263 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 2: but I almost forgot it was there. And so the 264 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 2: same sort of system, you know, we adapt very very quickly. 265 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 2: I was trying to adapt to Okay, yes, the pain, 266 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: I recognize its information. It means I'm in trouble and 267 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: nothing's changing in the immediate moment. Right now. There's nothing 268 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 2: I can do or don't do that changes the level 269 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 2: of pain that I'm experiencing. And it's not that I'm 270 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 2: going to be in more danger if I don't do something. 271 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 2: It's just that's what is accept it, and now I 272 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 2: can focus on something else, which is how I'm getting 273 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 2: get out of here. I know that I'm not going 274 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: to be able to do this easily, and at the 275 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 2: same time having that idea that I'm going to have 276 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 2: to cut my arm off, and I wasn't ready to 277 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 2: just jump upon that immediately either, So that goes at 278 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 2: the bottom of the list and I start working through 279 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 2: the other options first. But like trying to carve through 280 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 2: the rock that first afternoon night to the second morning, 281 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 2: fifteen hours of effort, chipping and prying and trying to 282 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 2: carve with but I don't have I don't have the 283 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: proper kind of tools. And this rock is a metamorphosed sandstone, 284 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 2: so it is very durable. It's not just like the walls. 285 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: It was a section a bowler that it had dropped 286 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: in from another part of the canyon where there was 287 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 2: some fult activity, and so it had been compressed and 288 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: therefore I was not going to carve my way through it. 289 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 2: I removed half of like a golf ball. That fifteen hours. 290 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: That was going to take me a month to try 291 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 2: to carve through enough to remove my hand. So that's out. 292 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: I work through setting up a pulley system. My engineering background, 293 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: my search and rescue training, in my mountaineering experience. I 294 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 2: bring all of that to bear. I have some equipment. 295 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: I don't have exact kind of equipment that I would need, 296 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: so I am improvising and that's what also that creativity, 297 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 2: the resourcefulness, innovation, all of this in a moment of crisis, 298 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 2: and I get a system in place. It takes me 299 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: five hours, every kind of ridiculous effort, but from below 300 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: with one hand to build an anchor, and I get 301 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 2: a three to one and then that doesn't work well. 302 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: Five to one, the six to one mechanical advantage system, 303 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: but there's problems with that. I don't have a static cable. 304 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: I'm using a stretchable climbing prog and so a lot 305 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 2: of forces being dissipated in the friction over the not pulleys. 306 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: I am using cara beeners, the little snaplinks that do 307 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: not roll with it. So there's sliding friction. It's supposed 308 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 2: to rolling friction with much higher level friction wellness, the 309 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 2: stretching rope, it's trying to lift a bowling ball with 310 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 2: a rubber band. It's just none of this has gone well. 311 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 2: But I did have an anchor, so I could clip 312 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 2: in a short line from the anchor down to my 313 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 2: climbing harness, which I was able to put on, and 314 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: I could rest my legs a little bit. I could 315 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: sit back. I couldn't move too far because otherwise the 316 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 2: bend in my arm as my shoulders drop caused the 317 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 2: angle to change where it was pinched, and the pain 318 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 2: would spike tremendously, So like, okay, I don't do that. 319 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 2: So just a few inches, a few inches being able 320 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 2: to it was the equivalent of kind of holding a 321 00:20:55,119 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: supported chair pose better than just It gave me an option, 322 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 2: but it wasn't comfortable. I'm rationing my food, I'm rationing 323 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 2: my water, very little water that I had. I know, 324 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: that's the important thing here. It's what's going to keep 325 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: me alive or not for the coming hours or day, 326 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,719 Speaker 2: and I'm starting to run out of options. So no 327 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: one's coming. Megan and Christy aren't coming back to look 328 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 2: for me. Other canyoneers aren't getting this far into the 329 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 2: canyon system Sunday. Now it's noon. Now it's afternoon, It's 330 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: going to be dark in a few hours. We're now 331 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 2: twenty four hours into my entrapment, at which point I 332 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 2: know that, yeah, I can't get myself free. I can't 333 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: carve through the rock, I can't lift the rock, I 334 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 2: can't rip my arm out of there, that no one's 335 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: coming to help me, even by happenstance or intention, And 336 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 2: because I wasn't even due back for several more days 337 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 2: at the end of my five day vacation, and at 338 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 2: that point they would start to rescue. But I hadn't 339 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 2: left word about where I was going. It was the 340 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: end of the week, it was Sunday, so if anybody's 341 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 2: going to show up, it's going to be a week 342 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: from now. I had not left word. And I want 343 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: to stress this because this was a choice I had made. 344 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 2: I went out on this adventure and had not told 345 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 2: anyone where I was going. No one even knew what 346 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 2: state I was in, and you can't really expect the 347 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: rescue to show up in a timely manner when you've 348 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 2: gone out and tried to hide in the desert that far. 349 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 2: It was an accountability process I had to go through, 350 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 2: so I wasn't blaming myself and getting down on myself 351 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 2: more criticizing myself. It's very easily get doing, but to say, Okay, 352 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,719 Speaker 2: I made the choices that got me into this, now 353 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 2: I'm going to make choices to get me out of there. 354 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: That was what I think empowered me to continue to 355 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 2: work to dig into myself about what's motivating me to 356 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: find Eventually they answered that, Okay, now I'm gonna have 357 00:22:53,119 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 2: to try to cut my arm on it. This is 358 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 2: twenty four hours in, so like still very early on. 359 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 2: I'd already had the idea in the first hour. Now 360 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 2: I'm actually trying to problem solve how do I do it? 361 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: I had some medical training exposure, but I was not 362 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: an empt or anything, and I'm just like doing the 363 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 2: best that I can. Yeah, I've watched some television shows 364 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: in my time, so I improvise a tourniquit out of 365 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: some of the camelback backpack system that mine had some 366 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: neoprene insulation on the hose that comes over your shoulders, 367 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: I wouldn't freeze as easily and cold temperatures. I stripped 368 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: that mioprene off. It's the end stretchy. Wrap it around 369 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 2: my forearm, tie it off my teeth, clip a carabiner 370 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 2: through it again, snap links that I can twist and 371 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: it bites into my arm and say, yeah, keep the 372 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 2: carabiner out so I can tie it. I clip it 373 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: to some other webbing around my bicep so it doesn't 374 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 2: want twist. There's a lot of planning and mitigation of 375 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: anticipated issues. So that's that's really what I was trying 376 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: to do to give myself the best chances. Which way 377 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: do I go back to my bike and then try 378 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: to ride fifty like no that I'll easily die before 379 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 2: I probably even get to the bike, let alone trying 380 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: to get all the way. I need to head straight 381 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 2: for the truck. It's still eight miles away. The big 382 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 2: drop ropel is down there, but maybe I get to 383 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: some water along the way, try to climb out of 384 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: this eight hundred foot escarpment that leads to my vehicle, 385 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 2: and then sixty miles of driving out of this washboard 386 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 2: of winding dirt portol drive road, and my mind jumps ahead. 387 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 2: It's like, why did I have to buy a stick shift? 388 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 2: I mean, man, you don't transmission in this thing, and 389 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: I'm gonna die trying to shift gears driving out this 390 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: winding road. I knew, though, as I held a knife 391 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 2: to my arm, that it was just a slow act 392 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: of suicide. I'll bleed the depth before I even get 393 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 2: to my truck. Like trying to hike out of that 394 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: canyon all those miles, I bought myself an hour something 395 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 2: but probably not eight to ten hours before I can 396 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 2: get to definitive medical care. And so I set the 397 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 2: knife down and I'm out of options. And now I'm 398 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: not just standing in the bottom of the canyon. I'm 399 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 2: actually the way I saw it scanning in my green 400 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 2: I reached for my video camera that I had with 401 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 2: me I carried on my adventures, my fourteen er clients 402 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: all this, and I got this cam quorder out, held 403 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 2: it in front of me and I looked into that lens. 404 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 2: And after I get through sort of an intro where 405 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 2: I ask, whoever finds this get it to my parents, 406 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 2: I give my names an address, and then looking at 407 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: them through this lens, I start to talk to my 408 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: mom and dad and say I'm sorry, and I love 409 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 2: you and I'll always be with you. And to express 410 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 2: my accountability, I go out looking for adventure, trying to 411 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: throw something about myself. So dumb. Taking all these risks 412 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: is so dumb. For what I talk to my sister. 413 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: I tell her how much I love her. I'm saying 414 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: I love you, I'm sorry. She was getting buried that summer, 415 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 2: it's going to ruin her wedding. But connecting through that 416 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: lens was also connecting with love, and that is what 417 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 2: switched for me. Now I knew what was so important 418 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 2: that I was going to give this everything that I had, 419 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 2: knowing I'm in my grave, I'm going to die here, 420 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: but I am going to hold on and survive as 421 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 2: long as possible for them, you know. I would talk 422 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: into that camera periodically, multiple times a day, talking to 423 00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 2: my grandparents, talking to my best friends from childhood, from 424 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 2: high school, college. It was this process that I went 425 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 2: through to support myself. I did not have the sustenance 426 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 2: in the more typical forms like food and water sheltered, 427 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: but I had love and it was keeping me going 428 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 2: perceived the experience of love that I was there, the 429 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 2: source that I was tapping into when I would talk 430 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 2: into the camera lens and I would feel that it 431 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: was the feeling of perspective, of being supported, of knowing 432 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 2: what was important and that I would do anything for that, 433 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 2: of having a source of motivation. So it was. It 434 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 2: was a very clear and almost tangible effect of talking 435 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 2: to my loved ones, envisioning them in a place where 436 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: they were watching this tape being played, maybe at my wake, 437 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: but to feel their love coming back through that lens 438 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 2: into me, and that this is where I now have. 439 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 2: I have the strength to do what I need to do. 440 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 2: I have the courage to do it. I have the 441 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: perseverance to see this through to the end. I have 442 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: the resilience to take what comes and to keep going. 443 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 2: That I have the grit, the determination. Just everything that 444 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 2: I could possibly need is coming to me from that 445 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 2: source of the relationships in my life, from love and 446 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 2: understanding it's not just what you do in life that's 447 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 2: important here, and it's about who you are, how you 448 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 2: love and knowing I'm fallible, I'm imperfect, and I can repair, 449 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 2: I can try again, I can do better tomorrow. That 450 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: I have this understanding what's important and that I can 451 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 2: draw from that, and that I can give back into that, 452 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: and that's what would pick me up. So I went 453 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 2: through times I tried to cut my arm. The knife 454 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 2: is so dull it can't even cut the hair off 455 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: the skin. Having you cut your arm up, the knife 456 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 2: is so dull you can't cut through the skin, let 457 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: alone get you know, through the rest of the arm. 458 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: You can't. I'm hitting bottom, but I get the camera 459 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: out and I'm lifted up. I'm booi. There's this elevating 460 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 2: effect and it's not woo at all. It's about the 461 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: power of our minds and our emotions that interact with 462 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 2: one another, that provide us either stimulation or depression. And 463 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: to know that I'm loved, to know that I love, 464 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: and those things in concert with one another is what 465 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 2: gives us the possibility for everything else. It's how I 466 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: move through those times to where I'm smiling on that videotape. 467 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 2: I'm looking into that lens and remembering things, you know, 468 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: positive memories from my childhood, going to national parks with 469 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: my family on vacation, learning how to ski together, going 470 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: to concerts with my friends, climbing mountains with them, all 471 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: these things, and it's about the memories of togetherness, bonds 472 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 2: and connections. That is what is putting a smile on 473 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 2: my face looking into that lens in this situation where 474 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: I'm alone in the middle of the desert, dying in 475 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: a hole, and yet I'm smiling. That's this power of mindset. 476 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 2: That's what I get. What I work to get across 477 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: to people is that when we perceive something a bolder 478 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 2: in our lives, yes, it's there. It's a darkness, it's 479 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: a burden, it's a there's a heaviness to it. There's 480 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: a maybe a negative life force around it, but nothing 481 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: exists in shadow. It also always has light. There's there's 482 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: always this duality around it. But that means that even 483 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: in the darkest place as I was in then there 484 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: was still light coming through me and with my family 485 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: and my friends through the love that we share. That 486 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: that's still how I was existing, how I was holding on. 487 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 2: You can't hit a deeper bottom than knowing that your 488 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 2: death is imminent and it's over and there's nothing you 489 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: can do, but what I can still smile. That was 490 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: so powerful There's an interesting connection there between the motivations 491 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 2: I had and climbing fourteen ers in the wintertime solo 492 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 2: and needing to prove something about myself that I was enough, 493 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 2: that I was deserving, and then realizing while I was 494 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: trapped in the canyon and talking into my camp order, 495 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 2: that I had it, that I have relationships, that it 496 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 2: wasn't about what you do to prove something, that it's 497 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: about who you are that's already there, that you are light, 498 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 2: that you are love, that you are deserving and worthy 499 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 2: of all of it, and that you have it. Then 500 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 2: there was also a sense of apology, like I'm sorry 501 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 2: that I didn't recognize that. I'm sorry that I didn't 502 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: give up my presence as deeply as I could, that 503 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: I didn't share my affection as often or as profoundly 504 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 2: as I could have. I was learning a lot. I'm 505 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 2: getting all of this, guys, I don't know enlightenment maybe even. 506 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 2: And I am also dying. My external circumstances. Not only 507 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 2: have they not improved, they are rapidly deteriorating as time goes. 508 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 2: I don't think I'm gonna make it to the fourth day, 509 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 2: but I'm still there. Then I have this idea, a 510 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: little light bulb moment. You don't just have to hold 511 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 2: a knife like a star. You can take up like 512 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 2: a dagger. And I stab myself and all of a sudden, 513 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: I've gotten through the skin. Now this is like, ah, 514 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 2: I did it. Maybe I can get myself out of here. 515 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: The excitement bounds. I have to call myself a breathe. Okay, 516 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: one am I up against observations options going through this 517 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 2: with a plan. Probing around inside the hole in my 518 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 2: arm that I now you get still to some extent. 519 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: See there's a little bit of a scar or it 520 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 2: in here between my fingers there that that's that's where 521 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 2: I stab myself. And then now I'm like, okay, one 522 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 2: of my up against there's muscle. There's like a lot 523 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 2: of it's blood okay, but not too much. It's not 524 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 2: it's not oozing out too fast. But then the knife 525 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 2: touches something hard and I understand, oh, i'd sooner be 526 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 2: able to slice through the boulder, then cut through the bone. 527 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 2: So here again, Now I've found like a sub basement 528 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 2: to my my rock bottom. I'm very clearly not going 529 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 2: to be able to cut my my arm off. I 530 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 2: I can't cut through the bone. Knife is just too dope. 531 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 2: So once more I get the camera out, and once 532 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 2: more I'm smiling. I'm elevated. There's this powerful uh yeah 533 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 2: again thing up of my spirit, of my capacity, and 534 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,959 Speaker 2: there's nothing more to do. Really, I mean, I have 535 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 2: to have to make some decisions, like I've decided by 536 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 2: noon on the fourth day I've been out there. Now 537 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 2: it's going on to eighty hours since I first left 538 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 2: my truck. I'm confronted with this, you know, dilemma of survival, like, well, 539 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 2: do I drank my own urine or not? And even 540 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 2: more above that, I had this one little mummified bite 541 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 2: of burrito left, and it was like the dunk or 542 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 2: not to dunk, And that is the question. I dunked, 543 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: you know, stopping it up and put it down the hat, 544 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: chase it down with some more urine, Like all right, 545 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 2: well that's the worst picnic lunch in human history. I 546 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 2: think I did take gifts from this though along the way. 547 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 2: Part of it is like, yeah, the ability to like 548 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 2: what you focus on, what you put your energy towards, 549 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 2: what you attend to with your attention, that is, that 550 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 2: is what you feed, That's what you received. There's a 551 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 2: whole thing about like the power of suggestion or of manifesting, 552 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 2: you know, And it's about this power of attention, and 553 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 2: that I was putting my attention on what I needed 554 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 2: to do, on what I had, on the relationships in 555 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 2: my life, with the news videos, the little clips that 556 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 2: I was recording, and that's what was keeping me going. 557 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 2: I did my best to compartmentalize and set aside the 558 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 2: rest of it I had understome to understand what was 559 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: important to me love and relationship, about what was possible 560 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 2: for me. I'm now into the fourth day, the fourth night, 561 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 2: eventually the fifth day, I'm still alive, doubling the amount 562 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 2: of timeline I might survive without adequate food and water 563 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 2: and shelter in the desert, proving I'm more than I 564 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 2: possibly could have imagined. And that's something I think is 565 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 2: universally true too. We're so much more capable of what 566 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 2: we think of ourselves as weak. I was discovering like, Okay, well, 567 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 2: there's a gift in a way from this boulder of 568 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 2: like what really constitutes a bad day pretty much any 569 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 2: day in my life today, that I didn't have to 570 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 2: drink my own urine I'm like, yep, thumbs up. You 571 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 2: cannot hold despair and gratitude in your heart at the 572 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 2: same time. That there's a lot of things that you 573 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 2: can like both and in your life and your emotional 574 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,720 Speaker 2: but would really profound despair and really profound gratitude displace 575 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 2: one another. They are opposites. And the more gratitude you curate, 576 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: you cultivate, you practice, you express, as I was able 577 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 2: to do into that camera, that that's what caused the 578 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 2: rock bottom despair to be replaced with this brilliant elevation 579 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 2: of love. So as I'm there four days, five days 580 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 2: and I'm smiling, I'm appreciating that I'm still alive. I'm 581 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 2: finding gratitude for all the gifts I've received in in 582 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 2: my life that I'm finding peace an acceptance with Like 583 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: this is what is this aligning yourself with the will 584 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 2: of the universe that that gives you such a deep 585 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 2: sense of peace. It's really the struggle when we try 586 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 2: to have what we don't have, or that we don't 587 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 2: want what we have. That's what creates tension, that's what 588 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,240 Speaker 2: creates dissonance, that's what creates struggle, and that's what creates 589 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 2: the anxiety or at most extreme level, the depression disconnects. 590 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 2: It was about by the fifth day, surrendering this is 591 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,919 Speaker 2: what's happening. I'm drinking my own urine. It doesn't matter 592 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,919 Speaker 2: if I do or don't, doesn't matter if I cut 593 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: my arm, I don't. Letting go of the type a 594 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 2: personality like I have to control this, I have to 595 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 2: do everything I like. I don't. It's not up to me. 596 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 2: And letting that go was a process of another gift 597 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 2: that I received from the Boulder, from this experience, to 598 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 2: say that I found peace in a very difficult situation 599 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 2: and it was okay. I knew by the time the 600 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 2: night came on that fifth day, I was going to die, 601 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 2: and it was it was okay. I kept saying that 602 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 2: out loud as I shivered into that night, that it's okay, 603 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 2: it's okay, you can go, you can go. I had 604 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 2: expressed all the love, of the regret, of the gratitude 605 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,879 Speaker 2: that I could under that camera, and I understood very 606 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 2: clearly this is how people die of exposure. That there's 607 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 2: eventually I'd read enough to know there's a warmth, a 608 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 2: false warmth that comes over you that people in blizzards 609 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 2: are found with their jackets undone and toss the side 610 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 2: of their hats and gloves up that there's this like 611 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 2: overheating that happens in the moment before you actually go, 612 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 2: and so I waited for it. What came instead was 613 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 2: a vision. And this is the point. This is the 614 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 2: out of body experience. This is the near death experience 615 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 2: that I had. The middle of that fifth and final night, 616 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 2: I saw myself leave the canyon. My body was still 617 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,280 Speaker 2: trapped by the rock, and I walked through the wall, 618 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 2: the left wall of the canyon where I'd etched my appitaph. 619 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 2: I was that certain that I was going to die, 620 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 2: I'd put them my name, my birth month and year, 621 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 2: my death month and year as APR three and then 622 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 2: rip at the top of it, carving into the softer 623 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 2: sandstone wall there with my knife. That whole wall moved 624 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 2: and there was a hallway. And I step into this hallway. 625 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 2: I take eight steps down to a doorway. I'm in 626 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 2: a dark space. It's light coming from a living room. 627 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,479 Speaker 2: I walk into the living room and there's sunlight coming 628 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 2: in through sliding glass doors, and a little boy three 629 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 2: and a half years old playing with a truck on 630 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 2: this hardwood floor, making a little noise with the truck, 631 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 2: and I watched myself with eyes floating behind my head, 632 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,280 Speaker 2: crouched down, open my arms up. A little boy drops 633 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 2: the truck, comes running over to me, and it bowls 634 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 2: into my chest as I scoop him up, and I 635 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 2: see like I see him, but I'm also seeing behind 636 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 2: him as I hold him. I'm holding him with my 637 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 2: left hand and a handless right arm. And then I 638 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 2: lean back and his eyes, these beautiful, brilliant blue eyes 639 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:08,280 Speaker 2: are just exploding it. This blond hair little boy did. 640 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 2: I dance around with him and this will last I 641 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 2: mean fifteen seconds maybe at most, and then it's gone, 642 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 2: and I'm back at the boulder and I'm shivering worse 643 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 2: than ever. The hypothermia is there, like I still haven't died, 644 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 2: but I crossed over. I know, maybe in a sense, 645 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 2: I died and I came back because that little boy 646 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 2: filled me with so much love, I knew it was 647 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 2: not over. That was premonition. It was the first half 648 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 2: of a deja vous. I would someday seat o little 649 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 2: boy in my life. That meant I was going to 650 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 2: get out of here. I was going to have the 651 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 2: sun and then we were going to play. We're going 652 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 2: to play toach other some day hours we by the darkness, 653 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 2: the deepest darkness of the experience of my life. And 654 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 2: then the sun came up. I saw the dawn that 655 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 2: that little boy had led me to the sixth day 656 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 2: of being out there in the desert alone, it's about 657 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty four hours, and and then I 658 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 2: have this ultimate epiphany. T got light bulbs, this is 659 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 2: stadium lights. This is megawatts going on. How do you 660 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 2: cut your arm up the knights? It's too dolle to 661 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 2: cut through the bone. You're don't have to cut through 662 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 2: the bone, aaron, use the use the boulder, break the bone. 663 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 2: How sudden this smile comes over from my face as 664 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 2: I understand that this is what it was all leading 665 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 2: up to. Is this moment of realizing that the torque 666 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 2: that I could exert on my arm as like two 667 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 2: by four a table dice. And I snapped the bone, 668 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 2: and I'm taking out of here. I'm gonna get home. 669 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 2: I'm beaming. I'm smiling, the biggest smile of my life. 670 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 2: I realized, oh wait, there's a second bone. Okay, of 671 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 2: course they're It's like you gotta do it again, like 672 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 2: we just reverse the course and snap the second bone. 673 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 2: Now it's even like I'm, you know, ear to ear 674 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 2: Guinness Book of Old Records, kind of smile as I 675 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 2: undertake the rest of the amputation broke the bones booth 676 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 2: in the same spot. I have access to it. This 677 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 2: little blade that's still sharp, only an inch and a 678 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 2: half long, and maybe only an inch long really, as 679 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 2: was the three inch flong like larger blade to the 680 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 2: multi tool. And I'm using this tidy blade to cut, cut, cut, 681 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 2: and I'm smiling bigger and bigger and bigger as I 682 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 2: worked through. Now I felt it all like and there 683 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 2: was a moment when I touched something like a spaghetti 684 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 2: strand in there and WHOA, Okay, I'm not smiling the nerve. Yeah, 685 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 2: but what am I going to do to stop now? Now, 686 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 2: I take the knife and flip it upside down. I 687 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,800 Speaker 2: sliced through that. It's just like more snapping it than anything. 688 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 2: And that felt like I had just thrust my entire 689 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 2: arm up to my shoulder into magma. It's vaporizing thiscineration 690 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 2: sensation that crests in a wave and then recedes over 691 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 2: the course of a few more breaths in seconds, deep breathing, 692 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:38,240 Speaker 2: eyes closed, regulating myself, coming back from this insane sense 693 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 2: of pain. And when I opened my eyes, now I'm 694 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 2: through the crux that this is all happening. It's the 695 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 2: last few pieces of skin. I stretched my arm, cut cut, 696 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 2: the tension releases. I stepped back. My feet are free, 697 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,879 Speaker 2: like I'm I step out of my grave and into 698 00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 2: my life. And that it is when I almost passed out, 699 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 2: but not from the pain, but from the infinite possibility 700 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 2: of having a life again after having died. There, after 701 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 2: having gone through the entire process of breathing my life, 702 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 2: eulogizing my relationships, thing, thank you, all of it. I 703 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 2: had come to accept and even embrace my death. And 704 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:29,280 Speaker 2: now all the joy and happiness and delight and pleasure 705 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 2: and possibility, it's all there for an entire life. And 706 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 2: when you know what that's like, like, that's not what 707 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 2: it is for us more born. We still have that 708 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 2: infinite possible, but we don't have a sense of it. 709 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 2: And I had the sense of it. So yeah, that's 710 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 2: my knees buckled. You just you can't handle our brains 711 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 2: can't process all of that. Had to tourniquet on stuff 712 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 2: my arm and my empty camel back kicked the straps 713 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 2: over mine. Like I kind of rehearsed all of this, 714 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,359 Speaker 2: practiced that thought it out. I've done the basic first 715 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 2: aid of stopping the blood flow as best I can, 716 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 2: slinging and cradling my arm so it's guarded and that 717 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,919 Speaker 2: I'm able to gather my rope. But before I left 718 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 2: the spot, I take my nlging bottle urine in and 719 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 2: flip it to my arnt. But I get my camera 720 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 2: out and I still photography camera. I take a photograph 721 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 2: of the boulder with yeah, the bloodied hand and the 722 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 2: blood going down the wall. The bone ends visible like 723 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 2: good ridds. But as I take the photo, I say 724 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 2: thank you out loud to the boulder for everything that 725 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 2: had given me. And that's the message that I have 726 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 2: out of this, that we can greet the adversity in 727 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 2: our life when we can greet that adversity with gratitude. 728 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:53,920 Speaker 2: Say hello enemy, bolder diversity, I welcome you because you 729 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 2: are here to bring me gifts, to help me grow, 730 00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 2: to a vault, to learn lessons, to finding more gratitude. 731 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 2: That is the choice that we get to make that 732 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,839 Speaker 2: is the choice of taking the possibility over the pain, 733 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 2: of seeing a boulder as a potential blessing, of taking 734 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 2: a trauma and seeing it as our path for transformation. 735 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,520 Speaker 2: If that's true in that moment, at the most extreme levels, 736 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 2: then that can be true every time, whether it's financial hardship, 737 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 2: it's a relationship hardship, whether it's and it doesn't mean 738 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,759 Speaker 2: that it's always going to be like, oh, now it's easy. No, 739 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,279 Speaker 2: that's where the hard work begins, because says for me 740 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 2: and the canyon, this is now like, Okay, the clock 741 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:45,840 Speaker 2: is ticking, you're dying. You got you gotta go. Dragging 742 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 2: my rope out of the bottom of that slot canyon 743 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:54,880 Speaker 2: and moving through down climbs, other boulders, chokes twists. It's 744 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,919 Speaker 2: dark at midday because the sun is blotted out from 745 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:03,319 Speaker 2: the curves of the wall overhead during my head lamp on. 746 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 2: But in one hundred yards of struggle of fifteen minutes 747 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 2: to move down through that space, I get to the 748 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 2: drop off of the big drop repel sixty five feet 749 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:19,960 Speaker 2: down to the continuing canyon floor. There's the Indiana Jones 750 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 2: and the temple with you. When when he comes out 751 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 2: of the railroadroad tunnel at the edge of the cliff, 752 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 2: and the crocodiles are down below. It's a spot like 753 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 2: that where you're just like, I'm in the middle of 754 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 2: a wall and ye, but I have my rope. I 755 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 2: rig it up, I repel down. There's a pool of 756 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 2: water down there, which I'm so blessed. It's like not 757 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,560 Speaker 2: my own urine, but there were dead things floating in it. 758 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:46,840 Speaker 2: It's just like this desert soup of decay and like 759 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 2: a black tea. But it tasted so sweet. I think 760 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 2: from all the like the leaves and the others decomposing 761 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 2: that there was like almost a sugary taste, like a 762 00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 2: port wine. Yeah. I drank almost a gallon before I 763 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,520 Speaker 2: fill up three leaders more to carry with me. I 764 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,399 Speaker 2: take a selfie there to just prove that I'm still here. 765 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 2: It's a very basic existential statement. And then I put 766 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 2: my cameras in my backpack. It's just the cameras in 767 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,399 Speaker 2: the water, and dump everything else out and I start 768 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 2: hiking mile after mile after mile after mile after mile. 769 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 2: Five hours of hiking with the tournique drip drip, drip, 770 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,720 Speaker 2: I lose a leader. Two leaders of blood. Haven't slept 771 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 2: in six days and I'm not going to make it. 772 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 2: I know, I'm having a heart attack on the way out. 773 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,280 Speaker 2: But there's a family I've come across and they're helping 774 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,360 Speaker 2: me along. The dad is walking with me. He's taken 775 00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 2: my backpack. I'm just stumbling, and I looked tell him 776 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,000 Speaker 2: that I'm going to die this this roar in my 777 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,000 Speaker 2: chest and then it's like echoing in my ears, but 778 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,760 Speaker 2: it's like seeming outside of me, and just I feel 779 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 2: like I'm about to dissolve to the other side. And 780 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:23,719 Speaker 2: I also then realize he's waving in the air and 781 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 2: it's and it's not just this racket from my heart, 782 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,920 Speaker 2: but it's actually a helicopter is echoing between the canyon walls, 783 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,439 Speaker 2: and a helicopter lands in front of me. Yeah, and 784 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,440 Speaker 2: I bound over to it. I mean, this is like 785 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:46,799 Speaker 2: chariots of fire, like no, no, no. There was a 786 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,319 Speaker 2: whole search and rescue operation that had been spearheaded by 787 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,080 Speaker 2: my mom. Like I know as much as the black 788 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,440 Speaker 2: helicopter that stays the day, what it really was was 789 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,399 Speaker 2: my mom who had gotten word from my manager. By 790 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 2: the Wednesday, the fifth day, he had realized like, oh, 791 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 2: Aaron's supposed to be back for work yesterday on Tuesday, 792 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,719 Speaker 2: he didn't show up. Gave him some extra time. He's 793 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,440 Speaker 2: not the kind of guy who just like ditches out 794 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,640 Speaker 2: and doesn't call. Maybe he got it wrong, but now 795 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,719 Speaker 2: it's then two days he's in trouble, calls mom. Mom 796 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,480 Speaker 2: picks up. He's in trouble, like he didn't call, he 797 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,440 Speaker 2: needs our help. They start and break into my own 798 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,120 Speaker 2: line email. There's a whole another story that goes into 799 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:32,319 Speaker 2: like this rescue enlisting my roommates, the cataloging, like what 800 00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,319 Speaker 2: gear I had taken, trying to guess, like based on that, 801 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,360 Speaker 2: where I might have gone with my email access. My 802 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 2: mom blasts out every contact that I had. You know, 803 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 2: does anybody know where Aaron is? One of my friends 804 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,799 Speaker 2: had a list of slot canyons that I had suggested 805 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,520 Speaker 2: that we might go explore that spring. I wasn't in 806 00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 2: any of those places, but it got them looking in 807 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,560 Speaker 2: the in the area. They traced my credit card that 808 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 2: I'd used at a at a grocery store six days 809 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,840 Speaker 2: before on the friday as I had arrived so like 810 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:08,359 Speaker 2: the last known location was the Moab Safeway and from 811 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,760 Speaker 2: there listing the assistance of multiple different public agencies, including 812 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,960 Speaker 2: a couple of shriff's departments. Of one of those sheriff's 813 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,160 Speaker 2: deputies had a contact in the Park Service who was 814 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,359 Speaker 2: out on a radio and was near enough to his 815 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 2: ranger station where his radio picked up and like, oh, 816 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,759 Speaker 2: that truck, Yeah, I've seen it. It's been parked out 817 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,600 Speaker 2: at the horse Who Canyon trail that for the last 818 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:38,799 Speaker 2: five days. I'll go check that it's still there. The 819 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 2: moments of the synchronicity as this plays out is that 820 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:46,320 Speaker 2: I realized that I can use the bowler and break 821 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 2: the bones at the same moment that they've confirmed that 822 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,759 Speaker 2: my truck is still at that trailhead, that I've been 823 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,960 Speaker 2: out there for all this time, that therefore, like it's 824 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:55,920 Speaker 2: just at the level where I might still be alive. 825 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,680 Speaker 2: Deploy the helicopters. They start sending helicopters in different areas. 826 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,799 Speaker 2: The first one that gets there is the one from 827 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,760 Speaker 2: up in Salt Lake City. It flies several hundred miles 828 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,920 Speaker 2: down and is starting to search the Horseshoe Canyon system 829 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,120 Speaker 2: up towards Blue Jawn from the mouth to the head. 830 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,480 Speaker 2: And I'm hiking from the head to the mouth. As 831 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 2: I get down far enough where I'm within a mile 832 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 2: and a half of the trailhead. But the helicopter's running 833 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,080 Speaker 2: out of fuel because it's come all that way, It's 834 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,360 Speaker 2: burned all its fuel. It's got to drop off the 835 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 2: people in the back seat at the trailhead where my 836 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,359 Speaker 2: truck is. Did you go fly back to Moab and 837 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,760 Speaker 2: get more fuel to come back and resume the search. 838 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,080 Speaker 2: If I hadn't made it with the help of that 839 00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,959 Speaker 2: family around that last bend to where we were within 840 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,239 Speaker 2: sight of the trail that goes to the where the 841 00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,680 Speaker 2: parking area is, and the helicopter was only coming that far, 842 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,759 Speaker 2: and that those two things happened within a matter of 843 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,720 Speaker 2: minutes of each other. If it had been five minutes, 844 00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 2: ten minutes later that I get there, the helicopter's gone. 845 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,960 Speaker 2: I bleed to death before it gets back. When when 846 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 2: they got me off the helicopter, fifteen minutes after it 847 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,400 Speaker 2: picked me up, I had minutes left a whip, but 848 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,719 Speaker 2: I still managed to walk into the er room in 849 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 2: the Ellen Memorial Hospital in Moab. They put me on 850 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,520 Speaker 2: the you know, the gurney, laid me down, Give me 851 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:22,320 Speaker 2: some give me some morphine, and I kind of faded 852 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:30,760 Speaker 2: black but my mom had brought that tire operation together. 853 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:37,600 Speaker 2: She is the miracle of all of this, and I 854 00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,160 Speaker 2: wouldn't be here without her, any of us wouldn't. But 855 00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,120 Speaker 2: she said, well she she gave me the gift of 856 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:50,640 Speaker 2: life a second time. Yeah, I'll pick up with the 857 00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,279 Speaker 2: vision of the child that I had, because for many 858 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,440 Speaker 2: years afterwards they I didn't. I didn't, I didn't have 859 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 2: full clarity. There was some speculation, like when I would 860 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,920 Speaker 2: share about that, that people had like, was that you was? 861 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:07,920 Speaker 2: Was that baby Jesus? 862 00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:08,040 Speaker 3: Like? 863 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,759 Speaker 2: Was that a future sun that you might? And I 864 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,080 Speaker 2: felt like it was a sun that it and also 865 00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:23,200 Speaker 2: like but who rarely knows. Five years after the amputation 866 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,960 Speaker 2: and the escape, rescue and everything, I met a woman 867 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:33,399 Speaker 2: who I was off and on with a little bit 868 00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 2: for those that first year until I had the chance 869 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,479 Speaker 2: to go on a rafting expedition down the Green River, 870 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:49,120 Speaker 2: which goes right by the mouth of Horsebory Canyon, and 871 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:54,279 Speaker 2: I'm probably within twenty air miles of the spot where 872 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,840 Speaker 2: I was trapped on a night when I had the 873 00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 2: only other kind of similar vision that I've ever had 874 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,160 Speaker 2: in my wife, where I just had this immediate like 875 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:12,840 Speaker 2: thunderclap understanding that, oh, she's the mother of that little boy. 876 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:17,319 Speaker 2: Six months later we're engaged, married. A few months after that, 877 00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:23,200 Speaker 2: we conceive a child. She's pregnant at our wedding, and 878 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,480 Speaker 2: we get our ultrasound at the twenty week point. You 879 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,640 Speaker 2: know where you get the chance to like learn, Oh 880 00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,560 Speaker 2: you want to know what sex the child is, Well, 881 00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,480 Speaker 2: you can tell her. I know it's going to be 882 00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:41,239 Speaker 2: a boy. I actually said that to the technician, and 883 00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,840 Speaker 2: sure enough it was, And sure enough as he was born. 884 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,640 Speaker 2: And now he's upstairs here in my house doing his 885 00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,799 Speaker 2: online school work this morning. That he's about to turn 886 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,719 Speaker 2: fifteen in a few weeks. Blonde hair, two eyes. He 887 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:09,480 Speaker 2: is that little boy. All of it. It absolutely came true. 888 00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,919 Speaker 2: Nothing is good or bad but what we make of it. 889 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,439 Speaker 2: So we have to put that work in to keep 890 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:22,680 Speaker 2: striving to maybe renew ourselves, to adapt, to change, to 891 00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,520 Speaker 2: go through something that's very, very difficult in order to 892 00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,640 Speaker 2: come through on the other side and then be able 893 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,560 Speaker 2: to look back and say that was the exact thing 894 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:31,720 Speaker 2: that I needed in my life. 895 00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 4: Everybody with me in the studio today we have learned 896 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 4: Vogel Bomb, Brent Dye and Nick Tukaski. 897 00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:10,120 Speaker 2: That ship was crazy. 898 00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,960 Speaker 5: But seriously listening to the stuff, like I have never 899 00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,480 Speaker 5: really watched I've never watched the movie. I was aware 900 00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,240 Speaker 5: of the movie, but I'm not a movie I'm not 901 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:20,160 Speaker 5: that movie person. 902 00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,120 Speaker 3: No, I will not have a good time watching that. 903 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,760 Speaker 5: I like the horror that I enjoy is like supernatural. 904 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,200 Speaker 5: It's like human human horror. 905 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:28,280 Speaker 2: I just can't. 906 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,600 Speaker 3: Buy it because fucking dragon. 907 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:30,840 Speaker 2: And this because I. 908 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,280 Speaker 5: Watch it on the news every exact day, because like 909 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:34,680 Speaker 5: I get hit with it constantly. 910 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,480 Speaker 3: But at least the star Wars the fast well dressed 911 00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:37,840 Speaker 3: I was. 912 00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:45,440 Speaker 5: He got so like explicit about the physical aspect of it, 913 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,440 Speaker 5: like the spiritual mental stuff was amazing. It was great, 914 00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 5: But it was like also that the actually I was 915 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,080 Speaker 5: listening to it and while I'm driving and I'm listening 916 00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:58,600 Speaker 5: to it, and he's talking about like. 917 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,960 Speaker 6: Breaking the bones of his with armile. 918 00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,160 Speaker 5: With a smile, and he's talking and he's like very 919 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,960 Speaker 5: explicitly explaining how the bones break. And as I'm driving 920 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,440 Speaker 5: the car, I'm just like my I'm just like shaping 921 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:11,760 Speaker 5: my arm just like. 922 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:14,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. And he's a. 923 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,680 Speaker 5: Very good storyteller in like, and he was telling a 924 00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,080 Speaker 5: story that I just I just was having a hard time. 925 00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,240 Speaker 2: Here, and you haven't seen the movie, so. 926 00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,320 Speaker 5: I have no because I don't like watching like people 927 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,400 Speaker 5: like I don't like watching people go through these horrifying 928 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:28,720 Speaker 5: physical things. 929 00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,280 Speaker 2: Because Grant said he fainted during the movie. 930 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:33,680 Speaker 7: Yeah, we went to the movie when my wife was 931 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,080 Speaker 7: pregnant with our first child, and we had made a 932 00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:37,520 Speaker 7: deal with my wife, and I thought I was not 933 00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,200 Speaker 7: going to be in the delivery room because I cannot 934 00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:39,720 Speaker 7: handle the. 935 00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,800 Speaker 2: Sight of blood. But I did go the delivery It 936 00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:42,280 Speaker 2: was wonderful. 937 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,440 Speaker 7: But so I was like, this will be good preparation 938 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,959 Speaker 7: for me to watch this horrific scene. So we watched 939 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,320 Speaker 7: him hack his arm off, and I'm like watching him 940 00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,720 Speaker 7: like that wasn't so bad. Then it shows him come 941 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,480 Speaker 7: out with his stub, the bits of blood dripping, and 942 00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,560 Speaker 7: he goes his canteen and there's no water left, and like, oh, 943 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,920 Speaker 7: now he's got a hike with these this blood loss 944 01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:04,920 Speaker 7: and no water, And I'm like I got to get up, 945 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,760 Speaker 7: and I start walking out of the theater and I faint. 946 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:09,480 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 947 01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,760 Speaker 7: But what struck me about this story was there was 948 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,200 Speaker 7: so much more to it than the movie. Like, if 949 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,160 Speaker 7: you're a fan of the movie. If you saw the movie, 950 01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,840 Speaker 7: this is not the whole story, like it's been years 951 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,040 Speaker 7: since I saw the movie, but but just to be 952 01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,920 Speaker 7: able to kind of dig down into the spiritual things 953 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,560 Speaker 7: that you talk about. The relationship with the Boulder is 954 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,439 Speaker 7: not in the movie from what I remember. 955 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,760 Speaker 4: Well, he's told the story a lot. But there's one 956 01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,760 Speaker 4: thing that was really cool, which was everything he was 957 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,560 Speaker 4: doing was trying to prove himself, and then when it 958 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,200 Speaker 4: finally came time for him to actually really have to 959 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,240 Speaker 4: dig in deep as deep as he did, which is miraculous. 960 01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,720 Speaker 4: Nothing short of that, it was because of gratitude and love, 961 01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,760 Speaker 4: not out of some need to sort of prove himself. 962 01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,840 Speaker 4: And I was like, that's that's so interesting that you 963 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,800 Speaker 4: know that what in the end, what pushed you to 964 01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,480 Speaker 4: really become the most heroic had nothing to do with 965 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:00,560 Speaker 4: proving yourself at all. 966 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:01,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 967 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, although I would say the show has like a 968 01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,760 Speaker 5: lovely sub genre of dudes trying to like prove ship 969 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:12,920 Speaker 5: for themselves. It was like I think in this particular, 970 01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,560 Speaker 5: especially Outdoor, Oh yeah, yeah, it's like I have because 971 01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,880 Speaker 5: because society made me feel like an other, I had 972 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 5: to just go and strike out and prove that I 973 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,160 Speaker 5: was better than society. Yeah, or prove that I was 974 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:30,760 Speaker 5: worthy of of this stuff. And I I totally get that, man. 975 01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,560 Speaker 5: I mean, how much of my life has just been like. 976 01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:39,520 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you. 977 01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:39,960 Speaker 2: Don't like me. 978 01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,280 Speaker 3: I could be funny, I could be sonny. 979 01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm likable with a joke. 980 01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I do. 981 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,040 Speaker 4: Well, there's this cool thing that that came out when 982 01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,160 Speaker 4: he's at the end. He starts to talk about how 983 01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,480 Speaker 4: you can't hold despair and gratitude in your heart at 984 01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,240 Speaker 4: the same time. So when you are stressed and you're 985 01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,800 Speaker 4: freaking out, and when you're in fight or flight, the amigdala. 986 01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,200 Speaker 2: Is super activated. Right, it's the fear center and brain. 987 01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, the other party, Your brain shuts off the part 988 01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,200 Speaker 4: that has to the prefrontal cortex shuts off, and that's 989 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,400 Speaker 4: the part that has to do with gratitude and has 990 01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:13,840 Speaker 4: to do with feelings of love, and it has to 991 01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:17,480 Speaker 4: do with feelings of belonging. And the two are sort 992 01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,040 Speaker 4: of diametrically opposed, so you can't have one while you're 993 01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,600 Speaker 4: having the other. So in that sense, it occurred to 994 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:30,120 Speaker 4: me like, oh, the ultimate antidote for fear panic any 995 01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:34,520 Speaker 4: of that is gratitude and. 996 01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,560 Speaker 3: Physically, not just psychologically. We're not just talking about now. 997 01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,840 Speaker 4: We're talking about neurologogic like WU stuff. But yeah, yeah, 998 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:42,240 Speaker 4: there's nothing WU about it. 999 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1000 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,800 Speaker 4: The limbic system, the amigola, and then the restoration mode 1001 01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,920 Speaker 4: is the loving graceful is rooted in the prefrontal cortex 1002 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,680 Speaker 4: and the higher order networks, which is just fascinating. And 1003 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,440 Speaker 4: I was like, okay, so if we can all figure 1004 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,840 Speaker 4: out how to override fear, you know, it really is 1005 01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,160 Speaker 4: with love. Yeah, and he and he found that in 1006 01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,640 Speaker 4: the in the most dire of consequences or situations. But 1007 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:10,480 Speaker 4: I beyond that, I can't even think of like six days, 1008 01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,040 Speaker 4: not three without food and water, six days or sleep, 1009 01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:19,080 Speaker 4: right and in excruciating pain. Yeah, and if he had 1010 01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:22,160 Speaker 4: and if he had stayed in that that first state, 1011 01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,360 Speaker 4: he probably I would put my two cents and then 1012 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:26,520 Speaker 4: he probably wouldn't. 1013 01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:26,760 Speaker 2: Have made it. 1014 01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:28,360 Speaker 3: We wouldn't have heard that story, right right. 1015 01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,800 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And that I mean, for lack of a 1016 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,880 Speaker 4: better word, that's miraculous to me, or it's or it's 1017 01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:35,840 Speaker 4: just at least pointing at something we've forgotten about the 1018 01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:36,520 Speaker 4: human you. 1019 01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,800 Speaker 3: Know, sir seems it feels impossible to access, you know, 1020 01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,200 Speaker 3: like especially, I mean, we all get stressed out over 1021 01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,600 Speaker 3: our daily lives, over small things. I mean I go 1022 01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:48,880 Speaker 3: four hours and I'm like, I'm really cranky, and I 1023 01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,640 Speaker 3: need a snack right now. And but but of course 1024 01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:57,439 Speaker 3: we are capable of overcoming those those immediate physical situations 1025 01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,040 Speaker 3: and being a better version of ourselves, being the version 1026 01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:05,240 Speaker 3: of ourselves that does want to connect and does want 1027 01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,400 Speaker 3: to experience love and keep doing that. 1028 01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,440 Speaker 7: Well, I'm sure the fight or flight instinct comes from 1029 01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:18,480 Speaker 7: when we were scavenging animals, fleeing predators, So your best 1030 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,479 Speaker 7: thing is either to play dead or to fight back. 1031 01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:25,480 Speaker 7: But in his situation, he wasn't fighting an immediate threat. 1032 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,160 Speaker 7: He was fighting a long term threat. So he had 1033 01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,600 Speaker 7: to think this through. The fight and flight instinct didn't 1034 01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,200 Speaker 7: really serve him well. And it's almost like a story 1035 01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,000 Speaker 7: for society, you know, as we as a species now 1036 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:42,120 Speaker 7: have to confront climate change, AI job disruption, nuclear proliferation, 1037 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,840 Speaker 7: maybe we need to move away from this idea, this 1038 01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,320 Speaker 7: good or bad, this enemy friend, this fight or flight, 1039 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,880 Speaker 7: and moved back to almost enlightenment. 1040 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,040 Speaker 2: It's not even a new idea. 1041 01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:55,920 Speaker 7: It was an idea from the Enlightenment, which is that 1042 01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,320 Speaker 7: you use reason and logic to work your way out 1043 01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,480 Speaker 7: of a problem. Like we've backsli on that, and his 1044 01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,200 Speaker 7: story shows like if you really just stop to think 1045 01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:07,200 Speaker 7: things through, you can find a solution. I wonder if 1046 01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,720 Speaker 7: we can as a culture cultivate this idea of love 1047 01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:14,800 Speaker 7: and gratitude more generally as a survival mechanism, you know 1048 01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:15,160 Speaker 7: what I mean? 1049 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:17,520 Speaker 2: I yes, And I. 1050 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:23,640 Speaker 5: Think that like a third of the population is capable 1051 01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,800 Speaker 5: of that. A third of the population. So the third 1052 01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:30,160 Speaker 5: of the population is like thinks that that is a weakness, 1053 01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:32,760 Speaker 5: that empathy is a weakness, and then a third of 1054 01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,000 Speaker 5: the population just doesn't pay attention enough. 1055 01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,880 Speaker 4: I interviewed Rick Doblin for the Maps the Multi Disciplinary 1056 01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,800 Speaker 4: Associations for Psychedelic Studies right right right, and he's got 1057 01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:44,000 Speaker 4: this cool thing that he's pursuing in his lifetime called 1058 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,400 Speaker 4: net zero trauma, where if enough people have these whether 1059 01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,360 Speaker 4: it's whether you use psychedelics to get there or whatever, 1060 01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:55,480 Speaker 4: the pathway is, if enough people start to have these 1061 01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,240 Speaker 4: experiences and these sort of epiphanies out of this sense 1062 01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,640 Speaker 4: of gratitude of this, you know, activating this other part 1063 01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,840 Speaker 4: of their brain. Then over time you can start to 1064 01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,000 Speaker 4: heal the trauma that we've all sort of carried with us. 1065 01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:12,680 Speaker 4: Zero trauma by twenty seventy. And that doesn't mean there's 1066 01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,320 Speaker 4: no no more trauma happening. It's just that we've caught 1067 01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,160 Speaker 4: up with with the abuse and with the neglect and 1068 01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,120 Speaker 4: with the you know, the self deprecation. 1069 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,520 Speaker 5: Well, and the more people who are able to come 1070 01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,240 Speaker 5: to grips with the trauma begets trauma. And if you 1071 01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:33,120 Speaker 5: are fixing yourself, you are less likely to commit trauma 1072 01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,240 Speaker 5: on your on your children, right or the people around you. 1073 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:40,080 Speaker 5: So I mean, like, I think that that just just 1074 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,840 Speaker 5: basic logic that makes sense. The more people that are 1075 01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,400 Speaker 5: sort of open to healing. 1076 01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:48,800 Speaker 3: Able to actively work on themselves. 1077 01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, and people who are able to fix themselves are 1078 01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:55,880 Speaker 5: able to help not commit you know, crime or not reinflict. 1079 01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:56,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1080 01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,440 Speaker 4: It's there are several stories in the Live Again that 1081 01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:04,840 Speaker 4: we've listen to people talk about whether they experienced homelessness, 1082 01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,840 Speaker 4: or whether they experienced abuse, sexual abuse as a child, 1083 01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:13,040 Speaker 4: or what have you, and how much that just steals 1084 01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,439 Speaker 4: their sense of self worth to the point where I'm 1085 01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,040 Speaker 4: driving around now differently than maybe when I was young 1086 01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,680 Speaker 4: and I see homeless people, or I see people acting out, 1087 01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,120 Speaker 4: or I see people acting violently, And my first thought 1088 01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:27,440 Speaker 4: these days, from having recorded all these interviews is I 1089 01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:32,080 Speaker 4: bet that person is suffered so horribly in their childhood. 1090 01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,240 Speaker 4: They're not just you know, not that I ever thought, Oh, 1091 01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,400 Speaker 4: they're just lazy, and so therefore they're homeless. But now 1092 01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:43,360 Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, that person's probably shouldering massive, massive amounts 1093 01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:44,200 Speaker 4: of trauma. 1094 01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,640 Speaker 3: Yeah it's not it's not like, oh fuck that guy. 1095 01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:48,720 Speaker 3: It's like, oh fuck, what happened to that guy? Yeah 1096 01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:49,520 Speaker 3: kind of situation. 1097 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's and it's not just the And then 1098 01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,560 Speaker 4: there's there's other folks who who who maybe had a 1099 01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:00,240 Speaker 4: different route, like you know, maybe Aaron Ralston who or 1100 01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,480 Speaker 4: Eric Larson who were like, Okay, you know, I'm going 1101 01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:06,320 Speaker 4: to go prove myself in nature or I'm going to 1102 01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,000 Speaker 4: go find some some other way to prove my sense 1103 01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:11,920 Speaker 4: of self worth. I think I did that for a 1104 01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,760 Speaker 4: long time. I think I was like, Okay, come hell 1105 01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:16,839 Speaker 4: or high water, I'm gonna make movies and that's gonna. 1106 01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:17,040 Speaker 2: Be my thing. 1107 01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,040 Speaker 4: And and all those people who doubted me when I 1108 01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,840 Speaker 4: was young, like, fuck those guys, I'm you know I can, 1109 01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,240 Speaker 4: and I think a certain degree of that is healthy. 1110 01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,679 Speaker 7: I think a certain degree of like I look back 1111 01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:29,880 Speaker 7: to the people who bullied me or challenged me as 1112 01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,760 Speaker 7: a kid, and it just drew me more into art 1113 01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,519 Speaker 7: and drew me more into who I am, and I'm 1114 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:38,960 Speaker 7: thankful for that. I was never gratuitously successful like I 1115 01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:40,800 Speaker 7: wish I would have been, But but. 1116 01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:42,719 Speaker 2: I couldn't go back and go fuck. 1117 01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,719 Speaker 6: Y oh Man, look into my Blockbluster movie. 1118 01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,760 Speaker 7: But but you know, the the journey, the friends I've 1119 01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,600 Speaker 7: made from that, the person I've become is worth. It 1120 01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,000 Speaker 7: shaped me as a person. I think, of course, I 1121 01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,800 Speaker 7: was never sexually abused. I was never physically abused, so 1122 01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:58,840 Speaker 7: that's a different kind of trauma. But I think that 1123 01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,160 Speaker 7: there's a certain amount of just from this podcast, what 1124 01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,000 Speaker 7: I think I've kind of learned is like the first 1125 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,280 Speaker 7: part of your life is trying to identify who you 1126 01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:09,599 Speaker 7: are and find and it's very important up until you're 1127 01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,400 Speaker 7: like in your mid thirties to fifties. That's it. It's 1128 01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:14,600 Speaker 7: putting a stake in the ground. This is what I've accomplished, 1129 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,880 Speaker 7: this is who I am. And then about the time 1130 01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,840 Speaker 7: he turned fifty, you're like, Wow, none of that's really 1131 01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:23,439 Speaker 7: that important. I mean, there's a reason Kirk Colebin shot himself. 1132 01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:26,599 Speaker 7: There's a reason George Harrison hated being in the Beatles. 1133 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,760 Speaker 7: You know, it's not all it's cracked up to be, necessarily, 1134 01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:30,280 Speaker 7: you know. 1135 01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:34,200 Speaker 4: But there's this lovely kind of tool that makes me 1136 01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:38,000 Speaker 4: think of you know, if we can consciously evoke gratitude, 1137 01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,040 Speaker 4: even when it's something small, it begins to neurologically deactivate 1138 01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:42,880 Speaker 4: the brain's. 1139 01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:43,960 Speaker 2: Panic or fear circuitry. 1140 01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:48,880 Speaker 4: Right, And so that's not just philosophical, that's not meta, 1141 01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,080 Speaker 4: that's like, that's real physiological. 1142 01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,720 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's the foundation of all of our religions too, 1143 01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:56,120 Speaker 7: the good ones at least. 1144 01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:04,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a mad Yeah, I'm a mad Maxia, and 1145 01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:10,280 Speaker 5: I only believe in in chrome and violence. 1146 01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:11,439 Speaker 3: Witness me. 1147 01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,000 Speaker 7: There's a there's another part of that too. It's not 1148 01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:19,200 Speaker 7: just his his. By the way, the way he found 1149 01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:23,040 Speaker 7: that love connection through a video camera is right stunning. 1150 01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,439 Speaker 3: I love that part. As a as a media theorist, 1151 01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,559 Speaker 3: I adore that part, you know, like I it really 1152 01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:33,360 Speaker 3: got me thinking about technology and connection and disconnection because 1153 01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,880 Speaker 3: you know, like there's a lot written about how communication 1154 01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:41,120 Speaker 3: technology these days actually really distances us because you know, 1155 01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,000 Speaker 3: like like a phone call can connect to you over 1156 01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,559 Speaker 3: great distances, or a text message or a blue sky 1157 01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:48,840 Speaker 3: skeet or whatever the kids are calling it these days. 1158 01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,800 Speaker 3: But but how visceral is that connection? Does it give 1159 01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:55,240 Speaker 3: us what we really want or need from human connection? 1160 01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:58,200 Speaker 3: And you know, like what if the line isn't clear, 1161 01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,160 Speaker 3: what if there's static? So like a lot online forums 1162 01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:04,519 Speaker 3: or whatever platform can can connect people who feel alone 1163 01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:06,479 Speaker 3: in their life in a lot of ways. But we've 1164 01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:11,040 Speaker 3: all seen how discourse can break down so quickly. 1165 01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,360 Speaker 4: When when people feel shielded by the when lack of 1166 01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:17,480 Speaker 4: extual intimacy. 1167 01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:21,599 Speaker 3: When the distance of acting through that medium makes people 1168 01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,640 Speaker 3: mean or or at the very least like unforgiving. 1169 01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:28,880 Speaker 8: Well, because you're you're you're not you're not shouting at 1170 01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:31,719 Speaker 8: a person, You're shouting at the idea of a person, right, 1171 01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,040 Speaker 8: And that's a lot it's a lot easier to dehumanize 1172 01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,800 Speaker 8: someone when you're when they're oh, just a moving image 1173 01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:40,479 Speaker 8: and some words that piss you off. 1174 01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:42,760 Speaker 3: Right, both of us have been on the end of 1175 01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:44,160 Speaker 3: angry YouTube. 1176 01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:47,000 Speaker 5: Cod death threats for yelling at my cat. I didn't 1177 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,240 Speaker 5: even yell at my cat. I meowed at my cat. 1178 01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,160 Speaker 5: I woke my cat up with the me. 1179 01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:53,400 Speaker 6: Never wake up a cat or a sleeping baby. 1180 01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,120 Speaker 5: I got, I got, I got comments that made me 1181 01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:58,960 Speaker 5: question my like worth as a human being. 1182 01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:01,120 Speaker 6: Can you give us some background on this? 1183 01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,800 Speaker 5: Okay, so sorry, what are you talking about? I had 1184 01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:10,479 Speaker 5: a cat right italics? He was a real asshole. He was, 1185 01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:16,360 Speaker 5: I mean, he liked he hated everybody but me and uh. 1186 01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:18,280 Speaker 5: He would wake us up in the middle of the night, 1187 01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:21,559 Speaker 5: me and and my my partner at the time, and 1188 01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,360 Speaker 5: it just it happened so often that we were losing sleep, 1189 01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,240 Speaker 5: and occasionally, to make us feel better after a long night, 1190 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,120 Speaker 5: if somebody was at work, somebody was at home, we 1191 01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,680 Speaker 5: would just see him sleeping and we would just videotape 1192 01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,599 Speaker 5: us waking him up, going like, pre you sleeping, are 1193 01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:39,040 Speaker 5: you sleeping? 1194 01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,880 Speaker 2: Pre sleeping? And how's a feel? How's it feel, how's 1195 01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:42,600 Speaker 2: it feel? You like this? 1196 01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:45,559 Speaker 5: And it was just to make the just to make 1197 01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:49,320 Speaker 5: the other person laugh. But there was one day where 1198 01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,920 Speaker 5: I caught him sleeping and I managed to frame it 1199 01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,639 Speaker 5: perfectly so that he's on one side of the frame 1200 01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,400 Speaker 5: and my head. I moved my head into the other 1201 01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:02,080 Speaker 5: side of the frame and meowed at him loudly, and 1202 01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,439 Speaker 5: he wears startled. He sees it's me, and he just 1203 01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:06,280 Speaker 5: like flops down. 1204 01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:07,040 Speaker 2: He's like whatever. 1205 01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:13,840 Speaker 5: That video has gotten death threats, hundreds of millions of 1206 01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:19,200 Speaker 5: views over over different platforms, right, and so I have 1207 01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:25,679 Speaker 5: gotten tens of thousands, possibly more, of hateful comments, people 1208 01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:27,639 Speaker 5: just going like you were a huge piece of shit. 1209 01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,760 Speaker 5: There was one woman that was like, you should never 1210 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,080 Speaker 5: have a child because you are incapable of empathy. You 1211 01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:37,160 Speaker 5: are a piece of shit. The fact that you're able 1212 01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,320 Speaker 5: to do this to a cat shows that you are 1213 01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:43,080 Speaker 5: a monster, and you were irredeemable and the best thing 1214 01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:44,200 Speaker 5: you can do is die. 1215 01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:49,000 Speaker 7: Off of a four second video clip of very completely. 1216 01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:50,000 Speaker 5: Thirty one seconds. 1217 01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,000 Speaker 4: But like, but like, and I could just picture this 1218 01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:56,599 Speaker 4: woman while she's typing this hate mail, just like away. 1219 01:13:57,280 --> 01:13:58,479 Speaker 2: Got important thing to do. 1220 01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:02,679 Speaker 5: And and I literally I never responded to these things. 1221 01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:06,000 Speaker 5: If I did, it was always some jokey like, hey, real, 1222 01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,920 Speaker 5: please to see you. We love talking to our fans. 1223 01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:09,439 Speaker 2: Have a great. 1224 01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,120 Speaker 5: And I wrote some nasty stuff back to it. 1225 01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:19,040 Speaker 7: I was like, she could use some of that zero trauma. 1226 01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:23,240 Speaker 5: And you know, Lauren, having gotten lots of hate mail 1227 01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:24,920 Speaker 5: for being a woman. 1228 01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:28,000 Speaker 3: Who talked about science, talked about science on YouTube. 1229 01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:29,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, you talk about science. 1230 01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:30,840 Speaker 6: I'm off the podcast. 1231 01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking there. 1232 01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,639 Speaker 5: But politics and history are the only things you're allowed 1233 01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:39,240 Speaker 5: to talk about. 1234 01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:41,519 Speaker 6: And sewing did you choose made? 1235 01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:42,519 Speaker 2: Whoa whoa? Whoa whoa whoa. 1236 01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:43,880 Speaker 5: Let's not get regressive. 1237 01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:48,120 Speaker 3: What about the science of shoes? No, but just so 1238 01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:50,960 Speaker 3: you know, like it's it's that kind of instinct can 1239 01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,680 Speaker 3: very much be out there. And I think that's a 1240 01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,080 Speaker 3: lot of what we think of when we think of 1241 01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:58,439 Speaker 3: technology these days. But there's at least like two edges 1242 01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:01,920 Speaker 3: to this blade. And I love that in Aaron's telling 1243 01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,479 Speaker 3: of this, the concept of like the mere presence of 1244 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,439 Speaker 3: having a communication technology with you, meaning that you're not alone. 1245 01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,240 Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think his experience with the technology is 1246 01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,840 Speaker 7: more like letter writing, because he's not getting the kind 1247 01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:20,200 Speaker 7: of feedback you're describing where you know he has to 1248 01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:25,000 Speaker 7: then he's not being performative. He's not trying to frame 1249 01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,639 Speaker 7: what he's got to say to please a certain audience, 1250 01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,280 Speaker 7: and he's talking directly to people he loves. But what 1251 01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:36,120 Speaker 7: amazed me about it was that even though he wasn't 1252 01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:36,559 Speaker 7: getting a. 1253 01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:39,559 Speaker 6: Direct response from them. He was feeling the love from 1254 01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:40,880 Speaker 6: these people coming. 1255 01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:41,479 Speaker 2: Out of this device. 1256 01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:44,439 Speaker 7: Like that's how he described it, Like he could feel 1257 01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:48,879 Speaker 7: them loving him through this device, just by him sharing 1258 01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,840 Speaker 7: the position that he was in, you know, like it's remarkable. 1259 01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:53,960 Speaker 2: And it shifted his brain. 1260 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:56,080 Speaker 7: He shifted his brain. And you also think about the 1261 01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:58,800 Speaker 7: technology itself as kind of bulky, you know, like the 1262 01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,040 Speaker 7: battery could run out. It's like you've got to balance 1263 01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:03,240 Speaker 7: it somewhere, you know. It's not like an iPhone that 1264 01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:04,880 Speaker 7: you can just flip out and take a selfie and 1265 01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,479 Speaker 7: record it. Like it was work back then to get 1266 01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:09,400 Speaker 7: your camera out and say something. 1267 01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:11,519 Speaker 4: And two other things that really struck me. One is, 1268 01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:15,400 Speaker 4: like you were saying earlier, Lauren, about his ability to 1269 01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:19,040 Speaker 4: think the boulder or to like the boulder is what 1270 01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:23,400 Speaker 4: provided this entire transformation for him. You know, how hard 1271 01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:26,640 Speaker 4: is it for people to look at their adversity and 1272 01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:30,200 Speaker 4: thank it to go, well, you know what, I'm glad 1273 01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,200 Speaker 4: that happened to me. I'm glad that, you know, thank 1274 01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:33,840 Speaker 4: you for that experience, because without it I would not 1275 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,080 Speaker 4: have become what I am now or what have you. 1276 01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:45,000 Speaker 5: That's just I need to call my stepfather to kill me, 1277 01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:50,519 Speaker 5: and he doesn't kill you, only makes you a basketcase. 1278 01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:52,160 Speaker 3: Makes it very funny. 1279 01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,080 Speaker 4: And the other thing is just the other thing that 1280 01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,599 Speaker 4: I thought was crazy was that was the actual NDE 1281 01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:00,439 Speaker 4: part of it. It wasn't about a life review. It 1282 01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:02,840 Speaker 4: was about a future life, which I thought was something 1283 01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:05,040 Speaker 4: we've never heard before. We've heard lots of people with 1284 01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,000 Speaker 4: true indiees that talk about a life review or they 1285 01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,240 Speaker 4: talk about finding this loving grace that's eternal. But he 1286 01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,880 Speaker 4: saw this vision of his kid and then later he 1287 01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:15,920 Speaker 4: was so confident in that. 1288 01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,920 Speaker 5: I had a similar I had a similar experience without 1289 01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,200 Speaker 5: the near death when I was at twenty two in 1290 01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:25,080 Speaker 5: college and I was like close to suicidal at that point, 1291 01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:26,920 Speaker 5: and I was getting ready to drop out of school. 1292 01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:30,559 Speaker 5: And there was one just really rough night. I fell 1293 01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:34,040 Speaker 5: asleep and I had a dream about ten years in 1294 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,240 Speaker 5: the future, and I was in a large park in 1295 01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,840 Speaker 5: the middle of a city I always think like Central Park, 1296 01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:44,839 Speaker 5: but it's at a family barbecue type thing. I remember 1297 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:48,040 Speaker 5: walking across the street away from it and running into 1298 01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:52,320 Speaker 5: my best friend McClain across the street and. 1299 01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:56,080 Speaker 1: John McClean Ian McLean Shelton. 1300 01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:58,160 Speaker 5: I had just I called him, called him McLain since 1301 01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:00,640 Speaker 5: we were like ten, Sorry, but but yes, it was 1302 01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:05,200 Speaker 5: John McClean. I was like, come to New York some laughs. 1303 01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:12,920 Speaker 5: But like, I go across the street and he's sitting 1304 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:15,040 Speaker 5: there at the bar and I sit down next to him, 1305 01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,559 Speaker 5: and he's like, hey, hey me, how you doing man? 1306 01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:21,800 Speaker 5: And I said, I've never been happier. And he's said 1307 01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:23,120 Speaker 5: that's great. And I was like, are you coming back? 1308 01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:24,439 Speaker 5: And he goes, yea, I'll be back in a minute. 1309 01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:27,000 Speaker 5: So I walked back across the street and as I'm 1310 01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:30,160 Speaker 5: coming back into the park, I hear daddy and this 1311 01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:34,719 Speaker 5: little kid with just like this short blonde hair runs 1312 01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:38,240 Speaker 5: at me, this little boy, and and he runs to 1313 01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:40,880 Speaker 5: me and I pick him up and I cling to him, 1314 01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:44,599 Speaker 5: and I wake up with this feeling of love like 1315 01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:48,479 Speaker 5: I'd never felt before. And then when I realized it 1316 01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:54,120 Speaker 5: was a dream, this deep devastation, and I carried that 1317 01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:56,479 Speaker 5: with me for years. I just this dream like haunted me. 1318 01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:01,120 Speaker 5: I wrote about it a lot. What's really funny is 1319 01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:09,320 Speaker 5: that my daughter, like last year, I was going to 1320 01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:15,920 Speaker 5: meet she and her mom at a playground and I 1321 01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:20,000 Speaker 5: show up and she'd she'd cut her hair at the 1322 01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:23,080 Speaker 5: time because her mom's hair was short, so she wanted 1323 01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:26,519 Speaker 5: her short. And I remember getting out of the car 1324 01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,759 Speaker 5: and I'm having a rough day, just like in my head, 1325 01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:32,439 Speaker 5: and she sees me before I see her, and I 1326 01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:37,360 Speaker 5: hear dada, and she runs directly at me, and I 1327 01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:40,400 Speaker 5: pick her up and I'm holding her, and this intense 1328 01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:47,559 Speaker 5: deja vu hits me that like it's taken twenty plus 1329 01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:51,960 Speaker 5: years to get to that point, but that's that's my kid, 1330 01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:56,240 Speaker 5: and like that dream came rushing back to me and 1331 01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,640 Speaker 5: I felt that just this really intense, weird like just 1332 01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,880 Speaker 5: like I was connected like something like a shadow, like 1333 01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:07,160 Speaker 5: an echo of my future and like hit this kid 1334 01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,880 Speaker 5: in the past and like kept me alive for another day. 1335 01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:11,240 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah. 1336 01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,679 Speaker 5: And it's just like hearing that that was the part 1337 01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:18,519 Speaker 5: of this particular story that just like hit me like 1338 01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:22,280 Speaker 5: a freight train in a really lovely way. 1339 01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1340 01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:26,960 Speaker 5: So yeah, this story was very affecting in a lot 1341 01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,200 Speaker 5: of different ways. But I think that really on a 1342 01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:33,360 Speaker 5: personal level, just was like a like a love like 1343 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:35,000 Speaker 5: a loving tap to the heart. 1344 01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:37,880 Speaker 7: I just love when there's a fold in space and 1345 01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:41,840 Speaker 7: time in these stories because we don't know what the 1346 01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,200 Speaker 7: threat of our life is for we don't know where 1347 01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:47,120 Speaker 7: we came from, where we go. I mean, I very 1348 01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:49,519 Speaker 7: well believe you could go on to an afterlife or 1349 01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:51,680 Speaker 7: you could fall into the ground and rot. Both of 1350 01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:54,800 Speaker 7: those are plausible pibility. 1351 01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,920 Speaker 5: And I'll be honest with you, either one fine by me. 1352 01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:04,880 Speaker 7: It's the same, the idea that somehow there's this reality 1353 01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:10,360 Speaker 7: where this thing happens. There's there's even I've never clicked 1354 01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:11,760 Speaker 7: on these videos on YouTube. I watched a lot of 1355 01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:14,080 Speaker 7: science videos, but there's always one there's time even real, 1356 01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,040 Speaker 7: and it's like, well maybe even Einstein kind of said, 1357 01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:19,519 Speaker 7: I don't know. I'm not going to get into it. 1358 01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,800 Speaker 7: I'm not a scientists, but my science is as bad 1359 01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:26,320 Speaker 7: as my theology. So but yeah, is it is it? 1360 01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,160 Speaker 7: Did it already happen somehow? Can you see it? Is 1361 01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,520 Speaker 7: it preordained? Or is it a possibility? 1362 01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:31,640 Speaker 2: Like? 1363 01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:34,080 Speaker 7: Is this a I don't know, but I thought that 1364 01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:36,559 Speaker 7: of all r Andy's Eat stories, I thought this one 1365 01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:41,040 Speaker 7: was the most amazing because it wasn't like maybe these 1366 01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:43,400 Speaker 7: things that people talk about seeing the light, meeting a 1367 01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,800 Speaker 7: spirit guide and all that happened, but it was so 1368 01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:48,640 Speaker 7: unique and so original and so moving for what for 1369 01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,240 Speaker 7: the reasons you just said, Nick, Yeah, like this is 1370 01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:52,919 Speaker 7: your possibility. 1371 01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:54,120 Speaker 2: In front of you, the reason to live. 1372 01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:57,519 Speaker 5: You know, I think that sometimes we get to like 1373 01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:03,040 Speaker 5: just barely rush up against the divine, and I think that, 1374 01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:07,559 Speaker 5: especially in times of our lives that are more difficult, 1375 01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:11,240 Speaker 5: it can hit you the wrong way. You know, you 1376 01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:15,439 Speaker 5: get sad right that that you can't embrace this thing 1377 01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:16,560 Speaker 5: more fully. 1378 01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,000 Speaker 2: Or a feeling of loss, because it's like. 1379 01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, feeling of loss. And I think that it takes 1380 01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:22,760 Speaker 5: it takes a lot of study and a lot of 1381 01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:27,360 Speaker 5: practice to really be able to embrace that. And having 1382 01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:34,280 Speaker 5: that dream when you're twenty two and and suicidal, it 1383 01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:36,800 Speaker 5: it can kind of it can feel almost traumatic. 1384 01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,080 Speaker 3: It feels like a joke. It feels like you're playing 1385 01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:39,720 Speaker 3: a joke on it. 1386 01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:43,439 Speaker 5: It feels like something being pulled away from h But yeah, 1387 01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:46,959 Speaker 5: I think that Aaron shows that you can really embrace 1388 01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:50,479 Speaker 5: that in the moment and you know, let that move 1389 01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:53,439 Speaker 5: you forward. And I wish I'd been more open to 1390 01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:55,639 Speaker 5: it when I was twenty two, because maybe my life 1391 01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:58,120 Speaker 5: would be different if I was able to at least 1392 01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:00,400 Speaker 5: take things as teachable moment as a. 1393 01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:02,080 Speaker 3: Positive sign not a negative. 1394 01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:05,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, this this dream it was. It was a dream. 1395 01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:07,960 Speaker 5: You know, it didn't need to break my heart, but 1396 01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:11,040 Speaker 5: you know my brain wasn't ready to accept that. 1397 01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and we all have to make those choices, right, 1398 01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,719 Speaker 3: You have to choose to want. I mean, there's also 1399 01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:19,360 Speaker 3: a lot of brain chemistry involved. And I don't know 1400 01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:21,000 Speaker 3: what was going on with your brain chemistry when you 1401 01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:22,400 Speaker 3: were twenty two. Mine was crap. 1402 01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:26,360 Speaker 5: Oh but mine mine was like mine was. Mine was 1403 01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:29,599 Speaker 5: held together with like dorrito dust, chewing gum and like 1404 01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:31,120 Speaker 5: Bacardi one fifty one. 1405 01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:32,439 Speaker 2: You know, but it's true. 1406 01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,160 Speaker 4: I wonder if it'd be I would love to cultivate 1407 01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:39,360 Speaker 4: a tool set or a skill set so that when 1408 01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:43,440 Speaker 4: I'm in adversity, I can stop and reframe the adversity 1409 01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:47,439 Speaker 4: not as punishment but as a lesson or as something 1410 01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:49,200 Speaker 4: that I can that I will at some point be 1411 01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,719 Speaker 4: grateful for, and to know that while it's happening might. 1412 01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:53,800 Speaker 2: Be interesting way to live. 1413 01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:55,559 Speaker 6: I don't know, it's sounds nice. 1414 01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:57,960 Speaker 5: I have that nice work if you can get it right. 1415 01:23:58,040 --> 01:23:58,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1416 01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,080 Speaker 7: Right to go through what he went through though and 1417 01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:05,400 Speaker 7: to have this vision of reason to live and then 1418 01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:09,000 Speaker 7: to have to again make his way out of the park, 1419 01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:11,080 Speaker 7: you know, like, how is he going to ride his bike? 1420 01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:12,880 Speaker 7: How's he going to hike down? How's he And then 1421 01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,679 Speaker 7: he meets that family and he's like, I am bleeding 1422 01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:18,760 Speaker 7: to death. And if that helicopter hadn't come right when 1423 01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,080 Speaker 7: it came, I would have bled out in front of 1424 01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:25,120 Speaker 7: this family, Like to have seen this tantalizing vision of 1425 01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,000 Speaker 7: what could lie in the future for you and still 1426 01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:32,519 Speaker 7: not be through it. You know, it's just heartbreaking to 1427 01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:34,400 Speaker 7: think he could. He could have gone through all of 1428 01:24:34,439 --> 01:24:35,320 Speaker 7: that and still die. 1429 01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,000 Speaker 4: It's kind of interesting during the interview, looking back when 1430 01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,479 Speaker 4: I was cutting it, I thought, I wish he had 1431 01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:42,600 Speaker 4: told me more about that moment of knowing that he 1432 01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:46,439 Speaker 4: was safe, that moment of knowing that, like the helicopter came. 1433 01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:47,120 Speaker 2: He kind of. 1434 01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:49,599 Speaker 4: Breezed over the rescue a little bit, Like he got 1435 01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:51,320 Speaker 4: all the way up to the point where the helicopter 1436 01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,200 Speaker 4: got him, and then it was like and that was that, 1437 01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:57,000 Speaker 4: and he, you know, he was about finally that point, 1438 01:24:57,520 --> 01:24:59,760 Speaker 4: was just about to lose consciousness and he wouldn't have 1439 01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,519 Speaker 4: made it another ten minutes or something. It's pretty miraculous, 1440 01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:04,400 Speaker 4: but he kind of moved past it quickly and didn't 1441 01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,519 Speaker 4: get into it. Maybe it was because you know, he 1442 01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,240 Speaker 4: had already had the epiphany, He had already had this, 1443 01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:13,640 Speaker 4: He already knew he was gonna make it. Like but 1444 01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:16,559 Speaker 4: his life was saved, not in that moment with the helicopter, 1445 01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:18,360 Speaker 4: but back in but the way he described it, where 1446 01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:20,519 Speaker 4: he's like, I'm hearing this boom boom, you know, and 1447 01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:21,839 Speaker 4: I'm dying and it turns. 1448 01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,680 Speaker 2: Out it's the helicopter blades. I just thought that was 1449 01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:24,840 Speaker 2: such again, not as hard. 1450 01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:31,320 Speaker 6: A nice as crossfade. 1451 01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:33,559 Speaker 2: Dan. 1452 01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:36,439 Speaker 7: You make a good point about the need to embrace love, 1453 01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:39,400 Speaker 7: and I think what happens when he's doing that is 1454 01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:43,240 Speaker 7: he's taken himself outside of himself, and that becomes the 1455 01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:45,320 Speaker 7: value that he brings out. It becomes his motivation. But 1456 01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:47,759 Speaker 7: a huge part of the story is also his intellect 1457 01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,120 Speaker 7: and his ability to stop and think through a moment, 1458 01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:51,519 Speaker 7: you know. 1459 01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:54,160 Speaker 6: And I think that's a lesson observe, stop, observe. 1460 01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:56,800 Speaker 7: And yeah, I mean I think as a society, we're 1461 01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:01,040 Speaker 7: so reactive you know, on on YouTube, comments, on Facebook, 1462 01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:05,720 Speaker 7: We're so reactive. Our foreign policy, our national policy is 1463 01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,479 Speaker 7: so reactive. Where if we could go back to that 1464 01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:15,200 Speaker 7: enlightenment idea of stop, get calm, think this through, you know, 1465 01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:19,400 Speaker 7: like I think, to me, that's a huge lesson story 1466 01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:19,800 Speaker 7: as well. 1467 01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:23,960 Speaker 4: Yes, if you're talking about like culturally, we're all running 1468 01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:26,800 Speaker 4: around reacting to the shit that's going on politically, and 1469 01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:29,800 Speaker 4: if we could stop and instead of just reacting to 1470 01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:34,120 Speaker 4: everything like there's you know, constant fires all around us, 1471 01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:35,400 Speaker 4: if we could all just stop. 1472 01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,320 Speaker 6: And the problem I do like Bruce Lee and enter 1473 01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:39,479 Speaker 6: the dragon and just sit down. 1474 01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:43,320 Speaker 5: The problem, the problem with our soy, I mean to 1475 01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:45,680 Speaker 5: go back to the technology. Well, the problems is that 1476 01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:55,680 Speaker 5: the technology benefits from us being reactionary. The technology benefits 1477 01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,000 Speaker 5: from it. We engage more, we see more of their ads. 1478 01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:02,360 Speaker 5: This is it's designs to make us reaction there. 1479 01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:05,280 Speaker 4: I bet that because of our iPhones and because of 1480 01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:08,519 Speaker 4: our social media, are amigdalas are like ten times bigger 1481 01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:11,720 Speaker 4: than they normally would be. I mean bigger than like 1482 01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:16,479 Speaker 4: lions chasing us and you know and being hunted by wolves. 1483 01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,360 Speaker 4: I mean, like the real threat that fight or flight 1484 01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:22,120 Speaker 4: is built for in our brains of you know, surviving 1485 01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:25,360 Speaker 4: predators or horrible situations. I bet our amigdalas are bigger 1486 01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:27,840 Speaker 4: than our primal ancestors. 1487 01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,160 Speaker 3: I mean that the litany of terror that is available 1488 01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:33,559 Speaker 3: at your fingertips every second of every day. 1489 01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:38,840 Speaker 1: Next time on Alive again, we meet Eric Larson, a 1490 01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:40,320 Speaker 1: renowned polar explorer. 1491 01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:44,599 Speaker 9: I could have been killed multiple times. You know where? 1492 01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:46,840 Speaker 9: What's the direction we're all going? None of us are 1493 01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:47,439 Speaker 9: getting out of it. 1494 01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:50,200 Speaker 1: Alive a story not about how a brush with death 1495 01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:53,280 Speaker 1: informed his life, but about how it has experiences in 1496 01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:57,439 Speaker 1: extreme life threatening conditions informed his battle with cancer age four. 1497 01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,680 Speaker 9: Cancer is the worst thing you could hear, but it's 1498 01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:04,520 Speaker 9: also the nature of the world. But that little gesture 1499 01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,879 Speaker 9: of just like, hey man, I get it. It's fucking scary. 1500 01:28:08,479 --> 01:28:14,880 Speaker 9: That kindness has really informed my life and like to 1501 01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:18,560 Speaker 9: take that away would mean that I wouldn't have had cancer. 1502 01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:24,240 Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die, 1503 01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:29,120 Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakoski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, additional 1504 01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:33,240 Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick 1505 01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:36,479 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional 1506 01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:41,320 Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima Lkali and Numes Griffin. 1507 01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:45,880 Speaker 1: Today's episode was edited by Mike w Anderson, mixing by 1508 01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:50,040 Speaker 1: Ben Lovitt and Alexander Rodriguansen. I'm your host, Dan Bush. 1509 01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:53,360 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Aaron Ralston for sharing his incredible story 1510 01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:56,120 Speaker 1: with us. To learn more about Aaron and his journey, 1511 01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:00,519 Speaker 1: go to Aaron Ralston speaker dot com, so check our 1512 01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:02,200 Speaker 1: show notes for links where you can follow him on 1513 01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:05,200 Speaker 1: social media. You can also dive deeper into his heroin 1514 01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:10,160 Speaker 1: experience and extraordinary resilience by reading his memoir Between a 1515 01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:13,640 Speaker 1: Rock and Heard Place. Alive Again is a production of 1516 01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:17,800 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a transformative near 1517 01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:20,360 Speaker 1: death experience to share, we'd love to hear your story. 1518 01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:25,640 Speaker 1: Please email us at Alive Again Project at gmail dot com. 1519 01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:28,960 Speaker 1: That's a l I V E A g A I 1520 01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:33,160 Speaker 1: N P R O j E C t at gmail 1521 01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:51,960 Speaker 1: dot com.