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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and this is Next Question,

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Speaker 1: and this is an incredibly exciting week for me. My

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Speaker 1: memoir Going There is finally out. People can read what's

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Speaker 1: actually in it. I can't believe it. And now that

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Speaker 1: it's out, I wanted to pull back the curtain for

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Speaker 1: my next question listeners and talk about how this project

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Speaker 1: really came together. It was a big endeavor. It's been

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Speaker 1: three years in the making, hundreds of files and memorabilia

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Speaker 1: boxes to sort through, and thousands of pages written and refine,

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Speaker 1: not to mention a hell of a lot of googling. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: I needed some help doing all of this, and I

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Speaker 1: got the best of it. Two incredibly thoughtful people I've

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Speaker 1: grown to love, so perfectly suited to this project. It's

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Speaker 1: almost weird. Not so long ago, the three of us

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Speaker 1: settled into my living room and talked about how we

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Speaker 1: all met, the writing process and how some of the

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Speaker 1: juicier and more personal moments from the book came to be.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado from roll, please, here's me and

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Speaker 1: my Going their team, Lucy Kalin and Adriana Fassio. Enjoy

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to my home. I feel like

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Speaker 1: a PBS host or MPR host and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: talk about sweaty balls pretty soon, but I won't because

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Speaker 1: I'm here with two of my favorite people who you

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Speaker 1: know are a little sensitive kidding. This is Lucy Kalin

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Speaker 1: and Atrana Fasio. We are the Troyka behind going there,

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Speaker 1: and so we thought it would be fun to give

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Speaker 1: you guys a little behind the scenes sense of what

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Speaker 1: it took to put together this five page blass memoir

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Speaker 1: that hopefully that you all are reading and enjoying or

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Speaker 1: getting ready to read. You can go to Amazon and

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Speaker 1: any other place that can you go to AMA. You

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Speaker 1: can Amazon or anywhere where you prefer to buy. Yes, exactly,

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Speaker 1: support your local bookstore by the way, just f y I. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna basically introduce ourselves. I'm Katie Curic. You probably

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Speaker 1: knew that by now. Lucy, why don't you introduce yourself

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Speaker 1: and how you got involved. We'll first introduce yourself and

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Speaker 1: then we'll talk about how you got involved in this project.

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Speaker 1: I'm Lucy Calin. Give us a little more, um sure,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I am thrilled to be here.

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Speaker 1: This is one of the best things I've ever been

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Speaker 1: engaged in. We'll get into that more, I'm sure. But UM,

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Speaker 1: long time magazine person, writer, editor, most recently the editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of Oprah Magazine and I'm currently VP of

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Speaker 1: Print Content at Hurst, been at gCube and at Vogue

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Speaker 1: and at Mary Claire. Um. Love words, love great stories,

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Speaker 1: and that's what finds me here. And miss Fossio, would

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Speaker 1: you like to introduce yourself? Yes, my name is Adriana Fossio.

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Speaker 1: I'm twenty four and this is my first job, twenty

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Speaker 1: four going on forty two. Um, Adriana is a an

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Speaker 1: old soul. Why don't you talk, Adriana real quickly about

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Speaker 1: how you and I met because it's such a funny story.

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Speaker 1: So I went to Notre Dame and I was a

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Speaker 1: double major in American Studies and film, and for one

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Speaker 1: of my film classes, we had to write about the

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Speaker 1: most impactful media experience we ever had, and I wrote

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Speaker 1: about the Today Show and then it turned into a

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Speaker 1: senior thesis about Katie, and through a friend of a friend,

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Speaker 1: someone connected me to Katie and then I interviewed her

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Speaker 1: from my thesis, which was called Katie Kerrik's Career and

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Speaker 1: Shifting Perceptions of Femininity and broadcast journalism, and why don't

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Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about why you were

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Speaker 1: so captivated when you were a young lass watching the

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Speaker 1: Today That's a very good question. Um So in my thesis,

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Speaker 1: I detail every single day with out fail the Today

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Speaker 1: Show was on in my household, and I would have

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Speaker 1: my little Catholic school jumper on and I would sit

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Speaker 1: eating my ego buffles watching Katie on the Today Show.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, and a little more than twenty four hours,

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Speaker 1: the United States will witness its forty second peaceful transfer

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Speaker 1: of power. Recently, I had the rare opportunities to sit

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Speaker 1: down with Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Earlier this morning,

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Speaker 1: I spoke with Queen Ronne of Jordan's and asked her

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Speaker 1: if she believed those potential problems had been underestimated. And

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be Katie. I wanted to be host

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Speaker 1: the Today Show. I wanted to go to broadcast journalism.

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Speaker 1: And I realized at a very young age that that

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Speaker 1: that was just what I wanted to do. You ended up, Adrian, I,

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Speaker 1: just to finish the story of the thesis, you ended

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Speaker 1: up getting in touch with me through that friend of

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Speaker 1: a friend. You came over to my apartment. You interviewed me.

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Speaker 1: You were so funny. She was nervous and you're or

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Speaker 1: I didn't notice you were ready, and uh, but you

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Speaker 1: asked me all these questions, and that's when I said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about writing a book. Maybe you'd like to

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Speaker 1: help me research it, because you know more about me

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Speaker 1: than I know about me, because she had done this

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Speaker 1: exhausted research. So that's how you ended up sitting on

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Speaker 1: my sofa, living with me through the pandemic and basically

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Speaker 1: tying my shoes every morning. We called Atrian and my companion,

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Speaker 1: which we think is funny as if I'm ninety five,

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Speaker 1: where you know I'm getting there? And sometimes I'll say

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Speaker 1: we're in there, and you're going there. I'll say where

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Speaker 1: are we, Adriana, and she'll say, we're in East Hampton, Katie. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: all right, so Lucy, let's talk about how we became

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Speaker 1: thick as thieves. Um. We were put together to work

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Speaker 1: on this book because I needed someone to help me

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Speaker 1: shape it and make sense of this crazy life of mine.

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Speaker 1: And one of the best things that has ever happened

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Speaker 1: to me is someone said, why don't you work with

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Speaker 1: Lucy Kalin and you had never really you'd written books yourself,

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Speaker 1: but you had never really been in this kind of situation.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about the books you wrote first. Sure, Um,

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Speaker 1: I wrote a book about um American nuns, and I

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Speaker 1: grew up without any religion at all. And I was very,

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Speaker 1: very deeply curious about the women who still did this

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Speaker 1: work because or responded to this call, because I knew

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Speaker 1: that the numbers were declining rapidly, So I thought it

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Speaker 1: was an interesting story for women, about women and subcultures

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Speaker 1: and all the rest. And funnily enough, I got the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to plug my book on the Today Show and

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Speaker 1: you interviewed me, and um and Lucy, that was you

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Speaker 1: were funny telling me about it, because you said you

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Speaker 1: were super nervous, right, and you were so good You

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Speaker 1: had never in a million years guess that you were nervous. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's that's great. But I will say, Um, and this

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Speaker 1: is you know, this is comletely true. I was. I

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Speaker 1: was bowled over by your skill as an interviewer and

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Speaker 1: as a person who for for whom you know, would

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Speaker 1: benefits the show if obviously, if the interviewee is not

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Speaker 1: a nervous wreck, and you were just so masterful at

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Speaker 1: like just just calming me down and making sure we'd

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Speaker 1: get the best we could for me. And and I

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Speaker 1: remember that feeling, and it was you know, it was

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Speaker 1: live and the whole thing television is terrifying, the biggest

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Speaker 1: and the cameras everywhere, and you know, biggest show on television.

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Speaker 1: And I just remember this feeling of like being in

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Speaker 1: your hands and um, and just feeling so like comfortable

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Speaker 1: and and relieved. And then you interviewed me years later

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Speaker 1: on the occasion of Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston breaking

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Speaker 1: up in a movie that he was doing, written a

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Speaker 1: piece about it exactly for g Q, and UM, that

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Speaker 1: was another wonderful opportunity to be in your strong and

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Speaker 1: safe hands. Um. And But but back to what got

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Speaker 1: me to the position and with perhaps doing work like

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Speaker 1: this was as I anticipated whatever my next chapters would be.

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Speaker 1: I it just sort of occurred to me that it

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Speaker 1: might be sort of interesting to collaborate with people of

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Speaker 1: an interesting story to tell, because it's a lot of

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Speaker 1: what I did. Um, certainly through long stretch of my

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Speaker 1: career at GQ Magazine, where I did a ton of

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Speaker 1: the cover stories, a lot of profiles a lot of interviews,

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Speaker 1: and there was always a sense in which, you know,

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Speaker 1: my job was to find a story, like make a

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Speaker 1: story out of something, and then of course write it

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Speaker 1: well and all of that, but you know, lots of

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Speaker 1: interviewing and lots of like finding the themes of people's

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Speaker 1: lives and helping them connect the dots and have things

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Speaker 1: make a certain kind of sense. So it's not just

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Speaker 1: a sort of a road sort of Q and A

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Speaker 1: about your life. UM. And I think I was talking

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Speaker 1: to a friend at um, you know, at at your agency,

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Speaker 1: wm E, and we were just kind of actually it was,

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Speaker 1: and we were talking about, you know, what we might

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Speaker 1: like to do someday when this chapter of our careers is,

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Speaker 1: you know, winding down, and I kind of mentioned that

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Speaker 1: in complete small talk fashion and UM. Strangely enough, then,

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Speaker 1: of course, Susan Gluck, your agent, was talking to her

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Speaker 1: colleague Jennifer and who were going to get for the

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Speaker 1: Katie project? And I think Jennifer was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: why not Lucy Kylen And Susanne said, well, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Lucy's got a very busy day job. She's editor of

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Speaker 1: Oprah magazine. She's like, I think you should you know,

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Speaker 1: reach out And that's how it That's how it began.

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Speaker 1: And I think there are a lot of reasons why

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Speaker 1: Lucy was such a perfect partner for me in this endeavor.

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Speaker 1: And Lucy, one of the reasons, I think is I'm

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Speaker 1: a little older than you are, but not too much older,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and you and I both came of age

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Speaker 1: in media really about the same time. And I also

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Speaker 1: think we have weirdly similar love affairs with our father

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Speaker 1: will not really love affairs, but you know, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: an in sutuous situation. Don't worry every one, but we

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Speaker 1: really deeply admired our fathers and and they were really

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Speaker 1: kind of behind us in terms are of our professional

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Speaker 1: um accomplishments. Yeah, they I mean they were both um

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Speaker 1: lovers of words and lovers of news and story and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff, and they were crazy about their little girls.

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Speaker 1: Were both younger as I'm a younger, you're a young guest,

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Speaker 1: And we spent a lot of time with those guys,

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Speaker 1: and they had a lot of um interest in what

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Speaker 1: we would do and become, and we both badly wanted

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Speaker 1: to make them proud. But another thing that I would

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Speaker 1: say about, you know, to your point about when women

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Speaker 1: like like us were coming along in male dominated fields

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Speaker 1: in the eighties. Um, you know, it's just unbelievably vivid

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Speaker 1: to me. When I was fairly junior at g Q

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Speaker 1: magazine and I had a tiny little studio and I would, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, couldn't There was no such thing as an espress,

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Speaker 1: so I couldn't afford a coffee press, whatever those things

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Speaker 1: were called. And I would have a cup of Sanka

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Speaker 1: in the morning. You are really dating and instant coffee. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: instant coffee. I had a Bhuton on Nineteenth Street, and

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Speaker 1: I had a TV with rab of ears and every

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Speaker 1: weekday morning, of course, it was tuned to the Today Show.

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Speaker 1: And I'd already been noticing you as Pentagon correspondent, and

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Speaker 1: you know, you were kind of getting you were you

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Speaker 1: were appearing more on the show. Good morning, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Today on this Monday morning, and this Monday the first

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Speaker 1: of several days, so we're gonna be welcoming. Katie kirk

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Speaker 1: Our National corresponded, good to be here. Busy day, busy week,

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Speaker 1: busy month. It's a busy one, right. I did not,

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Speaker 1: as a rule, relate to the women who typically were

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Speaker 1: in that sort of like sidekick to the alpha male

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Speaker 1: role on those shows. I just wasn't and I I

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Speaker 1: spied you, as millions of young women did, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: well that interests me. And I'll never forget that Sanco

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Speaker 1: Morning where when you were like on the couch because

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Speaker 1: you were truly like filling in as co anchor and

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Speaker 1: they were. Of course you learn in the book that

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Speaker 1: you know it's it's just a wonderful rise to the top.

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Speaker 1: But that was such a big moment from NBC News.

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Speaker 1: This is Today with Brian Gumbel, Katherine and Joel Garagiola.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to Today on a Friday morning,

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Speaker 1: into a new chapter of Today. How did its own?

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Speaker 1: Sounded good? And I still can't decide whether I'm Katherine

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Speaker 1: or Katie. Alex Ree Rackett for us one more time,

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Speaker 1: Alex Catherine, thank you very much. In case you haven't

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Speaker 1: gotten the message. Katie is now a permanent fixture up here,

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Speaker 1: a member of our family. And I was like, good

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Speaker 1: on NBC, they're doing it. They're making the right move

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Speaker 1: with that one that I like. And it's just incredibly

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Speaker 1: important to me and personally professionally, you know, and to

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Speaker 1: so many women of you know, our vintage just couldn't

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Speaker 1: be more formative. Such a huge thing to to have

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Speaker 1: you model for us what it could be. What's interesting

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Speaker 1: because I was probably more relatable than most of the

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Speaker 1: people who had been in that role. I had, you know,

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Speaker 1: this short kind of you know, Dorothy Hamiley, dark haircut,

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Speaker 1: which I don't understand how my hair turned blonde as

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Speaker 1: I got older, but you know, and I think that

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Speaker 1: I was I was just cut from a different cloth.

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Speaker 1: And and I remember when I got that job, I

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Speaker 1: thought about looking at tapes of Jane Paully, and then

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Speaker 1: I realized to myself, just instinctively, I think, to be

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Speaker 1: successful in this job, you can't put on airs. You

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Speaker 1: have to be yourself. You have to be authentic. And

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Speaker 1: this was before the word authentic kind of had had

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Speaker 1: crept into the lexicon. And so as a result, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, people like you who were, you know, stumbling

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Speaker 1: out of bed and drinking your sanka, like Adriana who

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Speaker 1: was eating her corn checks so oh her eggo waffles. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think there it made for a very

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Speaker 1: sort of almost intangible connection with viewers. And and it

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Speaker 1: was also I mean just definitely your your look was

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Speaker 1: relatable for a lot of us, which was great. It

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Speaker 1: didn't have to be that Barbie thing, which was very

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Speaker 1: alienating for a lot of us women, We women who

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Speaker 1: wanted to be taken seriously in these male dominated offices. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing was you lead with your personality,

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Speaker 1: and you lead with your intelligence and your emotional intelligence

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Speaker 1: and your wit and all of that stuff. And that

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Speaker 1: felt new, you know, because a lot of times it

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Speaker 1: seemed to me the women that were relegated to the

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Speaker 1: Barbie roll weren't really supposed to do that right, and

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Speaker 1: they were also quite um subservient to their male counterparts.

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Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things we talked about

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Speaker 1: when I got that job, which was pretty ballsy for

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Speaker 1: thirty four year old woman, was I insisted on an

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Speaker 1: equal partnership with Bryant Gumbel because I thought it was

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Speaker 1: so important, you know. I realized, I think, from from

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Speaker 1: my own childhood and how my perspectives were shaped by

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Speaker 1: good housekeeping and ladies own journals and these magazines that

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Speaker 1: I'd go to my next door neighbor, Mrs Geidals, and

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Speaker 1: I'd read them in her sunroom because she got them

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Speaker 1: all really weird right that I did that, but um,

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Speaker 1: you know how much popular culture and the images you're

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Speaker 1: surrounded by. I was very cognizant that they really shaped

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Speaker 1: your view of the world and your role in it.

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Speaker 1: And I thought there were very subtle, almost nuanced things

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Speaker 1: that people could watch on a show like that and

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Speaker 1: pick up on that would make them appreciate the fact

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Speaker 1: that women were as capable as men and that they

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Speaker 1: should have equal opportunities as men. And I wondered if

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Speaker 1: you picked up on that at all. Adrian is a

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Speaker 1: little girl watching it, because honestly, when I asked for that,

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Speaker 1: I asked for it for little girls like Adrian at

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Speaker 1: at the time. First of all, time wise, Lucy and

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Speaker 1: I are two generations of Katie fans, and she remembers

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Speaker 1: when you had your first day on the sofa, and

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Speaker 1: I remember crying, being nine years old, standing in my

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Speaker 1: kitchen when you said you were going to leave the show.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to tell all of you out there who

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Speaker 1: have watched the show for the past fifteen years that

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Speaker 1: after listening to my heart and my gut, two things

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Speaker 1: that have served me pretty well in the past, I've

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Speaker 1: decided I'll be leaving today. At the end of May.

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Speaker 1: It was really a very difficult decision. But also I

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Speaker 1: feel like Lucy's experience being your contemporary is being like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, we don't have to be this way,

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Speaker 1: And my experience of you being my role model is

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Speaker 1: assuming it always was that way, and so reliving this

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Speaker 1: with both of you makes me so grateful that you

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Speaker 1: did do it that way so that I don't have

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Speaker 1: to do it the old way. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I realized it at the time, but I wonder

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Speaker 1: if your mom did, because it sounds like she was

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Speaker 1: very keyed in on on making sure that you reached

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Speaker 1: your potential and that you satisfy kind of this intellectual

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Speaker 1: curiosity you exhibited at a very early age. It's fun.

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Speaker 1: My mom is very independent, very headstrong, very lots of things.

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Speaker 1: I adore her, But she is the same age as

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Speaker 1: you two, and she had a very different experience. She

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Speaker 1: never really had a career. She worked until she had kids,

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Speaker 1: and then she became a stay at home mom, and

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Speaker 1: then she um I went back to school and became

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Speaker 1: a teacher, which is great, and she's great at what

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Speaker 1: she does. But it's just to generate. There is a

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Speaker 1: generational divide among your generation. And I think, I know,

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Speaker 1: if she could do it again, she would have had

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Speaker 1: the career that I am having at twenty four. And

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, whether subconsciously or intentionally, she made sure that

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Speaker 1: I was exposed to things that made me realize that

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Speaker 1: the sky is the limit. And you made me realize that.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that, of course your daughters are really sort

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Speaker 1: of the same age as my daughter, just a couple

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Speaker 1: of years older, and the same age as Adriana. And

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Speaker 1: I know that it's very alive in us, um seeing

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Speaker 1: this generation of women who are like, no freaking joke,

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Speaker 1: They're so talented and small art and ambitious and just capable,

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Speaker 1: and and I feel not sort of struggling with some

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Speaker 1: of the things we simply had to because of, you know,

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Speaker 1: the time that it was. It's it does feel like

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Speaker 1: a victory, you know, it feels like such a victory

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Speaker 1: to see you guys being you. It's like, yeah, some

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Speaker 1: things do change for the better. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: with more behind the scenes moments from my memoir that's

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Speaker 1: right after this. One of the reasons why I really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed writing this book. And I think from the get go,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to use the backdrop of history and the

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Speaker 1: backdrop of really four decades, primarily for for my story

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Speaker 1: to illustrate some of the huge societal changes that have

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Speaker 1: taken place during the last four decades. And I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes we forget, Lucy that our generation was really the

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Speaker 1: first to be full throttle into the workforce. My mom

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Speaker 1: never worked, and I talked about that pretty poignantly, I

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Speaker 1: think um in the part of her book after she

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Speaker 1: she dies. But you know, I think we I think

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Speaker 1: it was like almost fifty fifty. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: statistically if that's absolutely correct, but a lot of women

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Speaker 1: are generation or some were choosing to get married and

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Speaker 1: raised their families and drop out of the workforce if

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Speaker 1: they entered it at all. And then there were people

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Speaker 1: like us who didn't watch us a job. As we

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Speaker 1: talk about in the book, we wanted careers. And I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that motivated me is I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to be financially independent. I did not. I

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Speaker 1: could not tolerate the feeling of relying on someone else.

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Speaker 1: And maybe that's because of my fear, our rejection to

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Speaker 1: can I lie down I'm kidding, but you know, because

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be married, have have a man

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Speaker 1: be the primary breadwinner, and have him like dump me

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Speaker 1: for a younger model and be left out in the

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Speaker 1: cole thinking, holy ship, what am I going to do?

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Speaker 1: I have these kids and you know, and um, so

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Speaker 1: it was really important to me, plus with the encouragement

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Speaker 1: of both my mom and dad to get out there

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Speaker 1: and work. But I just think it's so interesting because

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Speaker 1: I think we forget how we were kind of the

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Speaker 1: first wave of career women. Of course, there were people

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Speaker 1: before us, and you hear about, you know, Lyddy Dole

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Speaker 1: and Ruth Vader Ginsburg and people from my mom's generation.

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Speaker 1: And as we talk about my friend Christine Hughes's mom

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Speaker 1: who was a doctor, but all my friends, I think

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Speaker 1: almost you know, all of them had stay at home moms,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And by the time we were doing our thing.

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Speaker 1: I think the thing that that you know, we obviously

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Speaker 1: talked about it in the in the book, is you know,

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Speaker 1: we were like, you know, soldiers in the Mommy Wars,

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Speaker 1: right and Mommy Wars. I don't even think you hear

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Speaker 1: that term so much anymore. Yeah, I think you don't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was there, really was. I think we

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Speaker 1: remember it vividly that sense of you know, there were

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Speaker 1: at least two camps, and there was definitely that sense

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Speaker 1: in which the choices that you made might be some

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Speaker 1: sort of indictment or perceived as an indictment of the

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Speaker 1: choice of somebody else made. And you know, it was

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Speaker 1: so vivid to me when I was you know, I

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Speaker 1: had my first kid at and my second in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and I remember so vividly going to you know,

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Speaker 1: the preschool, and you know, I'm in my like my

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Speaker 1: hard shoes and my jacket and mothers and by that

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Speaker 1: because I'm going to go at drop off, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go to the office. And then there were those

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Speaker 1: women who had a yoga mat, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: back of their in their thing and you know, not

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Speaker 1: the briefcase or what have you. And it was all

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Speaker 1: very symbolic. It's like the ways that we were, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing our lives, where it was even just the optics

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Speaker 1: of it were sort of dramatic and and you wrestled

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Speaker 1: with it. And I totally didn't get to do the

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Speaker 1: cupcake thing a lot of times, and I didn't get

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Speaker 1: to do the pick important because you were on assignment

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Speaker 1: in a in another state. I mean I remember when

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Speaker 1: you know, my son Owen, you know, taking him to

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Speaker 1: school and you know you're supposed to wear something that

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Speaker 1: you know brings something that was your assigned letter of

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Speaker 1: the day. He was a little kid, and he it

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Speaker 1: was G Day for him, and I'm like, you know, shit,

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Speaker 1: I mean like I completely forgot to get him a

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Speaker 1: thing for G Day. And then I saw that he

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Speaker 1: was wearing a gap shirt and I'm like, honey, you've

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Speaker 1: got a gaptured on. There's your G for G Day.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was like that. It was very catch

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Speaker 1: as catch can, and you know, we just did the

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Speaker 1: best we could. And I was always missing the memo

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Speaker 1: on those those kinds of fun, sweet little things. But

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Speaker 1: I also was defiant as you certainly were um about,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to have a career, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do this thing. And we were you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a group of women and a certain

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Speaker 1: socioeconomic level who were really privileged enough to be able

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Speaker 1: to make that choice, you know, which is something that

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Speaker 1: I'm always mindful of as well. You know that when

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Speaker 1: it came to the mommy Wars and any kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, criticism of working mothers. You know, there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of women who didn't have the choice. I

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Speaker 1: do think it's really interesting in the book how incredibly

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Speaker 1: intentional you were about, you know, your career, but also

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be married, I'm gonna have kids. You know that.

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Speaker 1: You really like that Cassie mac in moment like, I

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Speaker 1: am totally going to do this. It's not going to

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Speaker 1: be easy, but you know, very very intentional about the

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Speaker 1: kind of life you wanted to live in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: I just read an article this morning that said single,

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Speaker 1: unmarried women are the happiest, which I thought was interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's me, you're twenty so, but yes, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think while I was hyper focused on my career, Um,

428
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: Cassie mack and who you mentioned, who was the Capitol

429
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: health correspondent for ABC News when I was a desk

430
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: assistant who had come from the Baltimore Sun. This you know,

431
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: beautiful tall, you know, statuesque blonde who almost glided into

432
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: the newsroom. I think we described her that way. Um

433
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: died of cancer in her early forties, and I remember

434
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: her unmarried, yeah, unmarried, and all her Paul bears, while

435
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: they were really impressive, I think Teddy Kennedy was one

436
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: of them. Ralph Tessam I remember as a cameraman went

437
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: on a date with him, got a lobster and didn't

438
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: kiss some good night, and he was pissed. But that's

439
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: another story. Um. But but I remember seeing that and thinking,

440
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to just be focused on

441
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: my career. I want to have a family, I want

442
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: to be married, I want to have children. Um, And

443
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: so I did kind of want it all. Yeah, you

444
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: became like a very prominent sort of emblem of all that,

445
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: and we all followed along very carefully. More from the

446
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: three of us right after this, Well, let's let's talk

447
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: a little bit about the process of writing this book,

448
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: because I think people might be interested on how we

449
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: work together and kind of how we were able to

450
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: take sixty four years and condense them into a single book. Um.

451
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because when we first started writing, uh,

452
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: the book was way way, way way over and in length,

453
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: in length and in deadlines. Yes, And I remember John saying,

454
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: who do you think you are? Winston? Sure, chill, what

455
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: do you want like several volumes? And I was like, yeah,

456
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: what's wrong with that? But we realized maybe maybe no

457
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: one else was interested in me as much as I was,

458
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: so we had to cut down a lot of the book.

459
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: But um, you know, do you want to kind of

460
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: just help people understand because I think they might see

461
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: the three of us and think, well, wait, how did

462
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 1: this work? And I would say that we really had

463
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:30,239
Speaker 1: very few rough patches, if any. I think it just

464
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: took us a little bit of time to um. I

465
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: think it's actually just an incredible story that we all

466
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: like and care about each other as much as we do.

467
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: I would even go so far to say love, but

468
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: I think it did. There was a bit of an

469
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: adjustment period, but not much. Can you talk about that,

470
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: Lucy and kind of what you experienced, because we haven't

471
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: really even talked about that. Sure, Well, I mean I

472
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: was very you know, I didn't exactly know what I

473
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: was getting myself into, but because it was Katie, because

474
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: it was you and your story, I was I was

475
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: all in, like, whatever this is, I'm doing it because

476
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: I want to help tell this story. It matters that

477
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: much to me. So, you know, again, kind of calling

478
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: on the work I've done um throughout other parts of

479
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: my career, certainly at g Q, but also the books

480
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: that I wrote. We did do some interviewing and we

481
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, you talked into a tape recorder, which was

482
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: useful to me. I had some transcript to kind of

483
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: play with when we sort of zeroed in on a section.

484
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 1: But also, of course there's a lot of great material

485
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: that I could find myself. I could look up a

486
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: lot of your interviews, and I could, you know, look

487
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: up a lot of articles about stuff that was going on,

488
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: so like I I could kind of piece together some

489
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: stuff that was an attempt at, you know, telling the

490
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: story of a certain chapter of your life. And then

491
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: we started a process of like kicking things back and forth,

492
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: which was really great. And then there were times when

493
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: you know, you would do some stuff out of whole cloth,

494
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: just like, take a look at this. I don't know

495
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: if it's good, but this is what was happening when

496
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: I was making this documentary and this crazy thing happened.

497
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: And then I would and then I would help you

498
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: bang it into shape, and I would try something out

499
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: of whole cloth and give it to you, and then

500
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: that kind of and then I would sort of play

501
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: with it and say no, or you know, it doesn't

502
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: sound like sometimes yeah, exactly, or it didn't really as

503
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: you said, happened that way or you know, and and

504
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: and a lot of times, you know, I really wanted

505
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: to make sure this was my voice and from my perspective,

506
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: and I think where Lucy was most helpful was kind

507
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: of putting giving a sort of a more macro cosmic

508
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: perspective of kind of what was going on in the culture.

509
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: And you know, we wrote extensively about Anita Hill, and

510
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: we ended up not being able to use it and

511
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: what it was like with my first experience really covering

512
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: sexual harassment, you know, and interestingly enough, how I mean,

513
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: we do talk about it in short form, but we

514
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: had something really long about it and and what that

515
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: was like. And I think because we are contemporaries and

516
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: you remembered those hearing so well, we could kind of

517
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: share what impact that was having on society and how

518
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: Anita Hill represented something that women knew and understood but

519
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: really hadn't put a name to it exactly. You know,

520
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: it's started crazy when you think sexual harassment. Even though

521
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: I experienced it and you experienced it early in our career,

522
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: that was the first time that someone had really put

523
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: a name and a face and actions to the term.

524
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: I think another thing that was really interesting for us is, um,

525
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: you know, there were times when you you would say, like, oh,

526
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: go look at this interview. We should probably do something

527
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: on this, you know. Of course, I you know, did

528
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: these interviews with the you know, Reginald Denny from the

529
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: horrific Rodney King Aftermath and you know, um, you know,

530
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: Matt Matthew Shepard and things like that, and these really

531
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: important interviews that you did, and I would look at

532
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: them and realize, you know, that a lot of time

533
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: had gone by, and for instance, there was a way

534
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 1: that you know, discovering that your child was gay was

535
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: talked about back then that would never be talked about,

536
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: you know now. And the same thing with Reginald Denny, who,

537
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: of course terrible things happened to him as he was,

538
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: you know, beaten at the intersection of Florence and Normandy.

539
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: But it was a very like, very much about the

540
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: white victim and all of the stuff that would get

541
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: surfaced in the Black Lives Matter summer Black Lives Matter.

542
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: It was just like nobody even thought about even know

543
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: how to talk about it. And you so interestingly when

544
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: I kind of prodded you to take a look let's

545
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: take another look at these interviews that you did, and

546
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: you were like, wow, I would never say that. I

547
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: would never you know, your heart was all in it

548
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: and you did a beautiful job on them. But it

549
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: was a different time and that became part of the book.

550
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: So I think it would be very awesome to talk

551
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: about where we were at when we realized we needed

552
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: help with this book. We were writing away, we were

553
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: having a great time. We were passing stuff back and forth,

554
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: we were interviewing also had had had given the proposal.

555
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: We were kind of rolling along, um, but you know,

556
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: it was it became clear that this was going to

557
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: be a massive undertaking and it was going to be

558
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds upon hundreds of pages, and it was

559
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of research. Is it's gonna be

560
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: a lot of everything. And let's just say, neither you

561
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: nor I are like super super genius with tech. We're

562
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: not super te not not super techy. So like a

563
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: vision in the night, like an angel coming down from

564
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: the sky, Adriana comes into our lives, and what was

565
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: the it was really, I mean, we had we had

566
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: been working on the book for how long, Probably no

567
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: need to work on the proposal, which took me month.

568
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: I know exactly when it was, about a month before

569
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: I interviewed Katie because I have since found an emails

570
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: Katie emailing Lucy saying, Lucy, this young woman just came

571
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: to my apartment and interviewed me. I'm going to ask

572
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: her to help. I think she could go to her Yeah,

573
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: so so what what did you find? So? Um? It's

574
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: June nineteen. I had just graduated from college, just moved

575
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: to New York, and well, first of all, I was

576
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: really nervous to meet Lucy because I really liked Katie

577
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: and Katie and I seemed to get along from like

578
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: the hour and a half I had spent with her.

579
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: But I thought, oh god, Lucy could be and I

580
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: could have no part in this and be cast to

581
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: the shadows. But no, Lucy is amazing and could not

582
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: be more inclusive and not only willing but eager to

583
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: hear my perspective and my take on things, which I

584
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: very very much appreciated as a twenty two year old.

585
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: The time, She's crazy, isn't it. But I mean, I think, honestly, um,

586
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: and I think Lucy, you would agree with this. It

587
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: was super helpful as I alluded to earlier, to have

588
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 1: someone of Adriana's generation, uh, kind of wane in on

589
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: some of the things that we were discussing, you know,

590
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: these big serious media issues. And you know, more than

591
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: once Adriana would say we'll wait a second, um or hey, uh,

592
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: you know you all sound like your ancient You wouldn't

593
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: say that, but but you know you would, you would

594
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: pipe in. And Adriana is extremely um. You know, I

595
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: appreciated how vocal she was. You know, I think a

596
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: lot of people would be intimidated honestly working with two

597
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: old broads like us and uh. And I think Adriana

598
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: her her willingness to speak up and give her opinion

599
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: and kind of say, I don't know if you want

600
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: to frame it this way, was was super helpful. Not

601
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: only uh sort of on on on in a bigger way,

602
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 1: but also just Adriana did so much research and we'd

603
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: have to find articles or I'd say, gosh, I know

604
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: someone wrote about my Bob Dole interview when he got

605
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: mad at me, and we couldn't even include that in

606
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: the book, by the way. Um, and uh, you know,

607
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: finding so many old pieces and all I have to

608
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: say is thank God for the Internet. I mean, I

609
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: curse it on a daily basis when I read a

610
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: mean tweet. But everything was so available to us, and

611
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: we have to kind of give a shout out to

612
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: the archivist, especially at NBC, who were unbelievably helpful. ABC

613
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: in my Homeboy. Yeah also ABC was CBS not quite

614
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: as much, but you can say that, yeah so, but

615
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: but it was an incredibly time consuming and thank God that,

616
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: you know, we were able to find stuff online and

617
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: then they were able to dig through their libraries and

618
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: send us stuff, even CNN and and and the local stations,

619
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: which were hilarious. One of our favorite pieces that I

620
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: did back in the day was when I was at

621
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: w t v J and I did it a story

622
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: about homeless people in in the Miami area, and um,

623
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: it was in the era of reporter involvement journalism, and

624
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: I dressed up like a homeless woman and it's it's

625
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: absolutely it's the opposite of woke. Yeah, it is so

626
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: mortifying and so horrendously bad that, um, I'm just going

627
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: to let people read the book and god forbid google

628
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: the story. Well the well, the other really important part

629
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: of how we put this thing together is Katie is

630
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: a pack rat and she has basically her own archive

631
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: of sorts in her basements of this house, and she

632
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: saved everything which thank god, she did, speeches, articles, magazines,

633
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: huge research notebooks full of stuff like if I was

634
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: going to Cuba, or if I was doing a piece

635
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: on remember teens and sex that I did with my

636
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: friends Sophia Fescionis, who was a great producer at NBC. Um.

637
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: You know, I still have these huge notebooks or from

638
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: election letter file cars and letters and speeches, um, which

639
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: proved invaluable. And you know the letters that there. I

640
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: treasured them. Not only do I have letters from really

641
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: famous people congratulating me when I got different jobs, but

642
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: also letters from people who wrote to the girls when

643
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: Jay died. So these letters that I have, uh, you know,

644
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: I've always said if I if this house caught on fire,

645
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: those would be the first thing I would grab if

646
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: I could find them, because who knows where they are?

647
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: Because I'm a I'm a hot mess that tornado is.

648
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: John would say, um, but but I think that's true.

649
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: Like just having those even I saved the worst tabloid

650
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: stories about me. I remember when you and I started

651
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: and the banker's boxes would be everywhere, and I'm like, oh,

652
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,479
Speaker 1: I don't realize this is gonna be part of the job.

653
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: And I'm like going through these like just just so

654
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: much paper, so many stories in the basement here in

655
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: your house with the scrap books and always and I'm like, scrap.

656
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is not going to get done. Like

657
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen here, because we

658
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: gotta pile up some pages. We've gonna do some writing

659
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: and among many, many many things. When Adriana came into

660
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: our lives and started making sense of all of that

661
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: and started finding everything, and it was, you know, just

662
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: a godsend And I think it was just the you know,

663
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 1: you wish I wish for anybody watching this um when

664
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: when you're doing a project you can just have a

665
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: team like this, where not only did we have our

666
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: respective you know, gifts and strengths and weaknesses and all

667
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: of that stuff, but we had so much fun and

668
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, we were just supporting each other all the time.

669
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: And you know, you really, as we always say, the

670
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: third leg of our stool. It was amazing when you

671
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: came along, and so much fun to be with. I

672
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: think we all really enjoyed each other's company, which is

673
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: I mean, just amazing, because we spent a lot of

674
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: time together around a dining room table here and in

675
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: the city, and um, you know, it was a very

676
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: intense experience. But the fact that you know, we we

677
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: not only survived, but we thrived and and really enjoyed

678
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: each other, I think is actually a miracle. And I

679
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: want to give props to my parents because my mom

680
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: and dad kept these scrap books during the course of

681
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: my career. Interestingly, sort of kept stop keeping them when

682
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: I went to CBS because I think maybe the articles

683
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: were all too mean to say, but you know, we

684
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: always made fun of my mom and dad. It was

685
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,919
Speaker 1: so so sweet and so tender that they would cut

686
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 1: out these articles and put them in a scrap book

687
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: for me. And I think by the time you know,

688
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: I've done at the Today Show, I had four or

689
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: five scrap books. We started calling them, we started calling them,

690
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 1: we started calling them son of scrap Book and son

691
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: of scrap book too. And so, I mean, I'm so

692
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: grateful to my parents, and in many ways, this this

693
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: book is a love letter to my mom and dad

694
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 1: and to my family. Next week, on next Question More

695
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 1: with Lucy and Adriana and behind the scenes moments from

696
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,399
Speaker 1: the making of my new memoir Going There. We get

697
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 1: into the hard stuff like processing the downfall of Matt Lower,

698
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: what the hell was going on, and the death of

699
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: my husband Jay. It was so close to the bone

700
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: and to my very being not to mention writing all

701
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: this during a pandemic. We were going to come out

702
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: for a weekend to quote unquote ride this thing out. Also,

703
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: my husband John Muhlner makes a surprise appearance. That's all

704
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: happening next Thursday on Next Question. And I'm embarking on

705
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: a nine city book tour. I'm super excited. I have

706
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: an incredible roster of guests, So please come in. Let's

707
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: get together. Yeah yeah, yeah, Let's be in community, feel inspired,

708
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: hopefully and connect. It's been a while, hasn't it. All

709
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: you have to do is go to ticketmaster dot com

710
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: slash Going There. Next Question with Katie Kurik is a

711
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: production of My Heart Media and Katie Kurik Media. The

712
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: executive producers Army, Katie Couric, and Courtney Litz. The supervising

713
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Dary Clements Adriana Fasio

714
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: and Emily Pinto. The show is edited and mixed by

715
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: Derrick Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to

716
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go

717
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: to Katie currect dot com. You can also find me

718
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: at Katie Currect on Instagram and all my social media channels.

719
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I

720
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to

721
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,