1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: If you're going to talk about the intersection between restrictive 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: gender norms and climate obstruction in the Year of Our 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Lord twenty twenty five, you have to also look at 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: the crossover between anti trans groups and anti climate groups, 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: because folks, that ven diagram is a circle. Welcome back 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: to carbon Bros. A collaboration between drilled and non toxic. 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: I'm Amy Westervelt. 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: I'm Daniel Penny. 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 3: Today we're bringing you a conversation with Vivian Taylor, one 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 3: of the key researchers behind a story you might have 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 3: seen earlier this year in at Most and Heated about 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 3: the fossil billionaires funding anti trans campaigns. Vivian has been 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 3: working on both trans rates and climate issues for a 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 3: very long time, so we figured she was the perfect 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 3: person to talk to about all of it. 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: So Hi, my name is Vivian Taylor. I am a 17 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: climate policy and environmental health policy expert. I am a 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: former researcher who worked at the climate tank Climateexus before 19 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 2: it went away in twenty twenty four. I am also 20 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: a long time transgender rights activist. I have in various 21 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 2: ways been working on trans rights issue since I got 22 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: out of the Army in twenty ten. From twenty thirteen 23 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: to twenty fifteen, I was the executive director of the 24 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: Episcopal Churches International LGBT Rights Ministry. I also have been 25 00:01:54,760 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: working in North Carolina against discrimination focused on transgender people 26 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: and specifically working against the promotion of laws to criminalize 27 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: homosexuality and transgender stuff. While I was the executive director 28 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: of the Episcopal Churches International LGBT Ministry. This was back 29 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen when You've Gonda passed an anti homosexuality 30 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: law lobbied heavily by white American Christians. So I did 31 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: a lot of work with people when You've Gonda there 32 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: pushing back against the criminalization of homosexuality in that country, 33 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 2: which led to just terrible suffering. A lot of people 34 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: were killed, a lot of sexual violence, a lot of 35 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: people imprisoned for no reason, terrible, terrible stuff. And so 36 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: since then I have had, even in my environmental work, 37 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 2: a very strong focus on trying to understand the criminalization 38 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 2: of homo sensuality and the criminalization of transgender people and 39 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 2: how that ties into all of this. So in my 40 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: climate work, I'm also always done environmental health work. I 41 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: cannot tell you how much I believe that people should 42 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: have access to clean drinking water, and that if they 43 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: don't have clean drinking water, it's going to hurt and 44 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: kill them, especially poor people, especially kids, especially people with 45 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: disabilities and ill message like, look, we just got to 46 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: get people clean water. I don't care on God you 47 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: believe in or don't believe in. What moral code do 48 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: you have? What wonderful exciting velocophy you have one way 49 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: or another. We got to give people water to do it. 50 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: His job. So I've worked on this lot. 51 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 4: In twenty twenty one, I came to work at you 52 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 4: think tank Climate Nexus, and I was working on our 53 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 4: climate finance team and also our Climate U health team, 54 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 4: and there was a huge amount of cross over because 55 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 4: climate change is just extraordinarily expensive, not just that it 56 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 4: destroys our infrastructure, which it does, but also like hotter 57 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 4: weather is dangerous, wetter weather spreads more disease. So I 58 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 4: did a lot of research enough how this was being 59 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 4: communicated about, And starting in twenty twenty one, I was 60 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 4: working every day on a climate finance newsletter that was 61 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 4: going out to a couple of thousand reporters and policy 62 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 4: makers and so on. Just following all this and every 63 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 4: day I would have to go through and collate and 64 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 4: ride up summaries. 65 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 2: And one of the things I noticed very quickly was 66 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 2: that this inti woke narrative that was typically focused to 67 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: feel mongering around transgender people, this is all getting used 68 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: to hammer the idea that we should like invest in 69 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: soulwar and we should add batteries to the electrical grid 70 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 2: to make it more reliable and more efficient lands it 71 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: is hard to make direct or given that we should 72 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 2: ignore climate change and just keep pumping money into fossil 73 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: fuels forever, Like it is getting hotter every single year. 74 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 2: We are having high tide blooding in places that we 75 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 2: have never had high time flooding before. And it's happening 76 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: regularly because the c levels are already rising. You know, 77 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: it's not an Emperors new clothes thing, like we're all 78 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: wearing the impers new clothes when it comes to climate change, 79 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: and kind of the only way you can get people 80 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: to do that is if you keep them distracted. And 81 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: so with all of this really in Kent's anti trans 82 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: rhetoric and specifically rhetoric around criminalizing trans people and beginning 83 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: to really push back on gay people's right to marry 84 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: gay people's right to have jobs like teachers or other 85 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: roles that come with a high level of trust and responsibility. 86 00:06:53,800 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: I begin to wonder, is this just something I'm noticing 87 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 2: while you listen the blue car rule? Like you had 88 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: a blue car, you see blue cars everywhere? Am I 89 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: just a gay person? And so I see anti gay 90 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: stuff everywhere? So we started looking into it. And so 91 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: what we did was we just identified forty of the 92 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: most prominent groups that have been leading the charge all 93 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: anti transgender rhetoric and activism and pushing anti trans lulls 94 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: that are leading into anti homosexuality walls. And what we 95 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: found is there was a huge amount of funding from 96 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:38,119 Speaker 2: the fossil fuel industry. Eighty percent of these groups we're 97 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: receiving fossil fuel industry money. Wow. What we have seen 98 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: is the fossil fuel industry trying to protect itself from, 99 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: you know, people being upset with there being more flooding, 100 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: word extream weather, more heat ways. Possil fuel industry doesn't 101 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: want to deal with people upset about that stuff. So instead, 102 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: fossil fuel industry has been funding this massive societal upset 103 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: about transgender people, and that has heard everybody. 104 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 3: It's interesting because I feel like there was this moment 105 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 3: where people started really freaking out about Project twenty twenty five, 106 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 3: and for a lot of people, it was like the 107 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 3: first time they heard of the Heritage Foundation and all that, Right, 108 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: So there was this whole focus on Heritage Foundation and 109 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 3: Product twenty twenty five and whatever. We did this jumbo 110 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 3: spreadsheet of like all the different organizations involved and where 111 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: they're funding was coming from, what other issues they advocated for, 112 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 3: and you know who worked for them, where else those 113 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 3: people worked and all that stuff. And there too, it 114 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: was just very clear that it's like, oh, a lot 115 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 3: of the same funders that are funding anti climate stuff 116 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: for funding in entire work, and a lot of the 117 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 3: organizations are working on both those issues. And a lot 118 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 3: of the organizations that had been anti abortion organizations almost 119 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: exclusively for a long time, you could totally see there 120 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 3: they kind of won their battle, right, and they've like 121 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: built up all this infrastructure and have all this funding 122 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 3: coming in and they're not just going to dismantle that, 123 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 3: And they a lot of them had just pivoted to 124 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 3: anti trans and anti climate. It was like those two 125 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 3: things were seen as this like the next battle front 126 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 3: or whatever. 127 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: It's very disturbing. It is, yeah, but I mean I 128 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: think one of the good thing was to remember what 129 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: it was just transfeedble cithing, fossil duel industry. Your reality 130 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: is that trans people are probably just general works. 131 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 5: But if we all to gander to work for a 132 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 5: world where we both have a survivable environment. 133 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: And a lack of think a treat towards all minority group, 134 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: we all come together that we have the ability to 135 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: just choose a world. And look, we all we all 136 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: know that we have to choose a world. There's room 137 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 2: for everybody. Like, look, I'm not trying to push my religion. 138 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: I have a master's of divinity too. Two thousand years ago, 139 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 2: two thousand years ago, Saint Paul, in the earliest Christian 140 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 2: text that we still have a copy of, written the 141 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 2: Book of Galatians, said, in Jesus Christ there is no 142 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: Jew or Greek slaver free, no male or female. Two 143 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 2: thousand years ago found coundation of the religion. And so 144 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: many people today still believing we were saying, well, we 145 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 2: gotta do something where Richard Poor, no matter your don't 146 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 2: you know your ethnicity or race whatever, No matter of 147 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 2: your gender. Well people whoa, whoa, And that's together role 148 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: in the hammership. Why God, you know. And I don't 149 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 2: mean to get religious, but I'm just saying, we have 150 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: thousands of years of being like, No, the most important 151 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: thing is you take care of the poor, You take 152 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: care of the sick. When there are people who've been 153 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: in prison, you have to think about their needs and 154 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: be good to them, even if they've done something you 155 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: don't like. We gotta like not have racism and sexism 156 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: and classism. We just gotta work together and like not 157 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 2: hurt for sick people. 158 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:56,239 Speaker 6: Yeah. 159 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, we have the answers and much like the 160 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 7: answers to do something meaningful about climate change that will 161 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 7: result to a high quality outcome for every human being 162 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 7: on the planet. 163 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: We have the ability, and we can't butt these wealthy 164 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: fossil fuel companies use their billions of dollars to split 165 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 2: us up and turn us against one another and keep 166 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 2: us all in the place where we're being hurt. 167 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm. 168 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 3: I find that every time I look at this, I'm 169 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 3: kind of shocked at the fact that really a lot 170 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 3: of these right wing organizations in their way are more 171 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 3: intersectional than climate organizations. Like they're working on anti climate, 172 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: anti trans anti women, anti reproductive rights, anti everything all 173 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 3: at once. Right, you've worked in climate spaces for a 174 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 3: long time. Why is this so hard for climate organizations 175 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 3: to wrap their head around? Because I don't think actually, 176 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 3: if it's just the people who can care about climate change, 177 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 3: you win not either. I mean, I think people are scared. 178 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 3: I think that there's a really intense campaign right now too. 179 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 3: They hate you should not be. 180 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 2: Talking about climate change. You should not admit that climate 181 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: change is real. You should not be trying to do 182 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 2: anything about climate change. Yeah, and when people are under 183 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 2: that much pushback, Yeah, I think people get scared that 184 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: of we talk about racism, we talk about sexism, and 185 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: we talk about homophobia. Well, that's going to be a 186 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: step too far. Then no one's going to listen to 187 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: the climate stars. And then oh well we just need 188 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: to Yeah, why can't we just talk about. 189 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: Micro micro granted batteries exactly? 190 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: And it's like, well, because like, don't talk about everything. 191 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 2: Yeah wait, wait, sorry, guys, we're talking about the environment 192 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: of the planet. And to talk about the environment of 193 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: the planet, you have to deal with the people who 194 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: live on planet. We're animals, too in this little ecosystem. 195 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: Yeah sounds and yet yeah. 196 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: Any way, I'd hit it too, I get. I mean 197 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 2: what trying to have a consistent positional justice is very hard. 198 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: There's things going on in the world where there are 199 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: more positions. If you take them, there's a chance that 200 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 2: you will lose your job, will not be we get 201 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: another job immediately. You are gonna be bad trouble if 202 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: you act like a basically moral turse. But you know, 203 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: I have short and you can say, well, i'm short, 204 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: I better take care of myself now. Or you can say, 205 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 2: well i'm short, may as well just studying the price 206 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 2: and try to move the world forward to a better place. 207 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: But I mean, it's easy for me to say yeah. 208 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, I think we gotta we gotta 209 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: just keep working. We gotta keep remembering what the consequences 210 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: of this stuff are. When I was in the Army, 211 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 2: I had a number of buddies who are firefighters, who 212 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 2: was in an aviation unit, and so we had to 213 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: have our own like firefighting squad, and I got to 214 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: know a number of these guys. I about to hear 215 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: a fair amount about firefighting, and like, let me tell you, 216 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: I have never met a firefighter who's like, you know, 217 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: I don't care about who are fairmblings in a burn? Goldings? 218 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: Why here an apartments Goldings alten fire. I just don't 219 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: care about these people in there. You know, Oh, there's 220 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: a kid hiding in the calls that because she's too 221 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: afraid of the fire. And if she hasn't found in 222 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: the next forty five second, she's gonna roast light and shaken. No, 223 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: that's not how firefighters are. They are so focused on 224 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: those people. They're so focused on those families. They are 225 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: so focused on like, well, no, you have just putting 226 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: the water like this, because if you're spreading the water 227 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: like that, it'll totally destroy the house. But if you 228 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: spread out like a gift. 229 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 8: Then they can rebuild and say, oh you'll you ought 230 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 8: to think about not just a family right now, you know, 231 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 8: the family's economic outcomes over the next ten years. 232 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: When I hear a man talk not protecting a family's 233 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 2: economic out comes over the next ten years, I didn't think. 234 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 6: Well, whatever's man's religions, whatever's politics, are these guys seem 235 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 6: to be on track for what I'm looking for. 236 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 2: Out of a firefighter. And I think that's kind of 237 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: what we're doing when we're thinking about environmental health, Like, look, 238 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: I love batteries, but guess what, if you just talk 239 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: about the technology, you just sound like a cell phone man. 240 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 2: And if you can just focus on the effects on people, 241 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 2: I think that's what the difference. We gotta love one another. 242 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: You got to stop attacking minority groups, and we move 243 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 2: to a direction that protects the health and happiness of 244 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: all people. We're gonna be okay. 245 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 9: Carbon Brose is an original series from Drilled and Non 246 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 9: Toxic written by me Amy. 247 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 2: Westerveldt and by me Daniel Penny. 248 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 9: Our senior producer and sound designer is Martin Zoldzastwick. He 249 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 9: also composed our theme song Check his Stuff out. Our 250 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 9: engineer is Peter Duff. Fact checking by Shilpa Jindia. 251 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: Original artwork by Matthew Fleming. 252 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 3: Our First Amendment attorney is James Wheaton with the First 253 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 3: Amendment Project. 254 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 9: Marketing by Maggie Taylor. Check out the Non Toxic podcast. 255 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: For more on the manosphere, and good to Drill 256 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 9: Media for more climate reporting and to support our work.