WEBVTT - Cinnamon and Hay 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.640 Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:08.440 Katie Studios. Grown Up Brown him he had such a 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:12.160 sweetheart and everything. Jake Wagner, he originally pleaded not guilty 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.800 to the murder of eight Rodent family members, say that 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.680 he was guilty. I am guilt. It just gives you 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:24.000 a complete chills. Jake admitted to personally killing five of 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.400 the eight into trying to burn and get rid of Avid, 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.200 and he'll now avoid the death penalty and spend the 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:30.080 rest of his life in print. If I've done something 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.960 to making that outrageously mad, he could have killed me too. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.480 Wagners showed a little to no emotion in cour today, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.320 just answering yes or no to the judge. But his 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.560 life was controlled all the time. Special Prosecutor said the 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.760 Wagners were a cult like family. I think it was 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.640 Jill Angelo behind the scene, control and everything, like a 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:57.600 little puppet master. This is the piked To Massacre. Returned 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:03.120 to Pike County season two, Episode two. Cinnamon and Hay 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.920 Courtney Armstrong a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.240 Lydecker and Jeff Shane. On April twenty second twenty twenty one, 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.800 Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to twenty three counts, including eight 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.840 aggravated murder charges, in the Rodin murder case. The motive 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.240 behind the killings back in twenty sixteen, according to prosecutors, 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.880 was a custody dispute between Jake and victim hannahme Roden 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.520 over their young daughter. As it stands, the other three 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.280 Wagners accused in the murders, Jake's father Billy, mother Angela, 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.480 and brother George, have all pled not guilty. The day 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.600 that Jake appeared in court for his plea deal, we 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.640 caught up with Christina Howard. Her sister Tabby had a 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.320 relationship with the accused eldest son, George Wagner. The two 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.960 were married and had a son together, but eventually divorced. 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.920 When you found out for a fact that Jake was guilty, 0:01:55.000 --> 0:02:02.200 what was your reaction? My reaction was like wow and away, 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.400 kind of speechless, because me and him were friends when 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:11.680 we were younger. You never really think about somebody who 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:16.919 is or once was a friend being able to take 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:22.600 so many lives like that. Last season, Christina told us 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.160 a little bit about a custody dispute that ensued between 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.200 Tabby and George Wagner after the couple split up. It 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.280 piqued our interest when we heard about it, since it 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.160 foreshadowed what was to come for hannahme Roden. Christina was 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.120 a little hesitant to divulge too much last time we spoke, 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.680 but in light of Jakes Please, she chose to delve 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.079 into Tabby's story a little more, and what we found 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.880 is far darker and much more disturbing than we could 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:51.040 have ever imagined. What follows is Christina's recollection of the events. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.800 Christina's relationship with the Wagner family goes back to her childhood. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.959 Her mother began working for grandmother of the accused, Frederica Wagner, 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.359 whom Christina affectionately refers to as Freddie. When she was 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.080 a kid. She was a grandmother to in a way. 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.720 I would go to work with my mother and I 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.120 would hang around Freddie a lot, and she traded my 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:19.360 family pretty kindly. On holidays, she would always get me 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.600 and my sister's presents, and I have Christmas dinners and 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:28.280 Easter dinners, and it was like, you know, us being 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.920 part of her family, and it was pretty nice. Eventually, 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.400 Christina and her sister Tabby, met Frederica's grandsons, George and 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.880 Jake Wagner. Christina told Jeff that George and Tabby hit 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.640 it off and soon became a couple. They got together 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.360 when they were young teens. I think my sister was 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.960 like thirteen fourteen, you know, and they ended up liking 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.520 each other. Did you think that George was badness? He 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:57.080 was a little bit of a travelmaker. Christina would often 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.400 tag along when Tabby went to visit George at the 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.760 Wagner's home. They had like this pretty little like house 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.200 up on the hill, and they had like their own 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:10.080 little pond up there. It was pretty isolated. They had 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.920 a privacy gate at the bottom that in order to 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.440 get in, somebody up at the top of the house 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:21.360 would have to come down and unlock it. Me, George, Jake, 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:25.440 and Tabby we would like go outside and you know, 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:30.520 do young dumb teenager kid type stuff and play tag, 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.440 jump on the trampoline and the treehouse and all that. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.400 It was really fun and we could be as rowdy 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.040 as and noisy as we wanted because they didn't have 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:45.440 no neighbors whatsoever. While George and Tabby were hanging out, 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.600 Christina struck up a friendship with Jake Wagner. Jake was 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.240 actually a really nice kid. Me and him were kind 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.880 of friends. It was pretty cool. He was really nice, 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.080 kind of shy, who played video games and all that 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:01.120 good stuff as a kid. Jake struck Christina as kind 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.719 and almost unusually empathetic. I remember in Jake's bedroom, you know, 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:10.080 he had his own little TV and video game system 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.119 and all that stuff, and he had just one stuff duck, 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.440 and it was like hanging on the wall or something, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:18.960 and it kind of gave me the creeps whenever I'm 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.120 a little kid. And he was sweet enough to take 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.200 it off his wall and hide it in his closet 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.520 or something, because the game of the creeps. The more 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.000 time Christina spent at the home, the more familiar she 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.960 became with the boy's mother, accused murderer, Angela Wagner, she's 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.680 sometimes referred to as Angie. Christina told Stephanie that on 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.800 the surface, everything about Angela Wagner seemed to personify the 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.039 typical all American mom. Out front was like this nice 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:51.239 little walk away with flowers and you know, the white 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:55.480 picket fence. Except in the country kind of deal. And 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.080 then like you go inside the house or the kitchen, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.679 and then right beside the kitchen of the living room 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.279 and it's pretty big. They got like this huge section 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:11.479 ale and a nice big TV. And the house smelled 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:16.000 like it kind of smelled like cinnamon mixed with hay. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.760 I don't know she could really imagine that, but like, 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.679 take some may start around everywhere and sprinkle some cinnamon 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.760 in it, and that's what it smelled. Watched Angela would 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:30.240 make us some snacks or some lunch or whatever. I 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.359 think even like maybe twice she made us dinner. It 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.400 was pretty good. She sounds like a homemaker, which is 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.760 again what makes it so shocking to imagine that she 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:46.479 had the ability to do something so horrific. Yeah, but 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.120 the more time Christina spent at the Wagner home, the 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.839 relationship between the Wagner boys and their mother came into focus. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.080 They were always around their mom, no matter what their 0:06:56.160 --> 0:07:02.560 mom said. When always they wanted to play outside longer 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:07.040 if Angie said no, it was no. I yeah, they 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.680 wanted to play the video games longer if Andy said no, 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.080 it was no. Even if like they slightly disobeyed her, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.160 she put her foot down meaning like, you better listen 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.760 to me or I'm gonna book your butt. And they're 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.960 just like, all right, Mama, It didn't matter what Angie said. 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:30.360 That's what went. As the kids got older, Angela Wagner 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.840 seemed to take more control over her boys lives, especially Jake. 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.840 We had a job somewhere and his mom like actually 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.480 made him quit the job because she said that the 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.920 job wasn't good enough for him, meaning Angela Wagner. Jake 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.960 Wagner's mom said, this job's over, it's not good enough 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.000 for you. Yeah. It's like, you know, your mom controls 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:58.720 your whole entire life. And it wasn't long before Angela 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:03.280 turned her controlling ways towards Christina's family. Angie made George 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.120 break up with Tabby because Angie didn't like my sister 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.440 because you know, George and Jake were Mama's boys and 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.880 ain't nothing in the world gonna be able to steal 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:18.040 her boys from her. She was just so controlling. Soon, 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.400 Angela Wagner's true colors began to shine through her all 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.920 American facade. In some photos that I've seen ev Angela, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:30.080 she looks smiley, and she's pretty and just looks like 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.040 an all American mom. But then in other pictures, like 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.840 her mugshot for example, she's sort of grimacing and has 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:41.600 a scary vibe. What was she like in prison? In person? 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:48.120 She was the tide, you know, to talk about every 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.480 day stuff like how you do, and how's your family 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.199 and everything else like that. But it felt like whenever 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.000 she would talk to you, it felt like an act 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.640 because that she was putting on, like you know, she 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.880 would looking down on the kind of thing is. At 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.199 least that's what I always picked up. She seemed like 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.439 she was put on a map. Makes people think so 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.080 she's all right, so whatever. But I never really did 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:21.760 like her. She's just books me. After the Wagner family 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.040 was arrested in twenty eighteen, the family's unusual dynamic became 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.880 a key building block in the States case against Angela, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.559 Billy Jake, and George Wagner. On August thirty first of 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.160 last year, George Wagner appeared in court for a pre 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.880 trial hearing. Special Agent Ryan Scheiterer of the Ohio Bureau 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:42.320 of Criminal Investigation testified that day. He provided details of 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.160 what authorities had uncovered about the Wagners over two years 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:50.319 of investigating here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Scheiterer. How 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.480 would you describe the Wagner family. The Wagner family from 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.520 what we found through the investigation as well as their 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.920 own admittances, they're very close. When I say they lived together, 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.679 they've always lived together. There's not been a period of 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.240 time where George Wagner has not lived with his brother 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:11.959 or his mother. But their finances are intermingled. They worked together, 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.960 They've always worked together. They homeschool together, they raised their 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:21.040 kids together. Everything is done together. So from birth until 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.679 the day they were arrested, they lived together. Yes. Do 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.080 you have an opinion as whether or not one of 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:30.040 them might strike out and go commit some haynes tiding 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.360 with you out and the others knowing about it or 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.680 participating in it. No, we have an informant who says 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.880 that every decision within that family is made as a 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:45.560 family decision. Years after Angelo Wagner force George Wagner and 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.199 Tabby Howard's relationship to end, the couple rekindled their romance. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.920 Soon after, victim Hanname Rodin started going out with Jake 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:57.520 Wagner and the Rodens. Wagner's and Howard's became very close. 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:02.199 Hannah's brother, Victim Frankie Rodin even joined the Phray. Hannah 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.280 and Tabby were best friends, and Hannah and Jake were together, 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.199 and Tabby and George were together, and Frankie would hang 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.840 out with him a lot because they were like best 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.839 friends with Frankie ussos, so they were always like going 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:21.160 out hunting and fishing and stuff. Then one day, Tabby 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.280 Howard came to her family with some surprising news. She 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.760 and George Wagner were getting married. We didn't know anything 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:34.760 about it until shortly before it, so Karen something like us, like, wow, 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:39.360 that's crazy. Instead of excitement, Christina felt something much different 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.040 based on her time spent around the family and accused 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.280 mother Angela Wagner in particular. It just didn't feel right 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.760 to me, and I thought I'd speak my mind about it. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.600 I told her, I said, listen, you don't want to 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:57.000 marry him, and she said, well why not? I said, 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:02.440 because his mom is very controlling. I said, you want 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.000 to wait a few years and see how things go 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.280 before you, you know, jump into getting married to him 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.480 and stuff. And she said, well, you're just full of it. 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.000 You don't know what you're talking about we love each 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.520 other and everything, and Angie's just trying to look out 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:24.480 for me. So towards that part, I feel like Angie, 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.200 you know, like kind of turned her against her family 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:34.240 a bit more of like a I don't need you 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:40.199 and I'm gonna spend my time with my new family. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.520 I didn't want her to get married because of the 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.559 way I felt, but I felt like it wasn't my place, 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.080 because you know, intervene. If she's happy, let her be. 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:58.680 If not, she'll figure it out. On July first, twenty twelve, 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.360 all three families gathered for Tabby Howard and George Wagner's wedding. 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.120 That was a normal, pretty wedding. It was kind of 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:13.760 country because you know type. She had a camouflage dress 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:18.200 and George she had a camo tugs. Everybody's camouflage crazy 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.520 around here. They love it. Hanging up, you have somebody 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.520 what their favorite colors and they're like, oh, it's camouflage. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.600 Me and two of my sisters and Hannah were her bridesmaids. 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:34.120 The bridesmaids we wore black dresses, and Jake was George's 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:39.000 best man. Obviously, the Wagoners were there. There was Freddy, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:44.800 George and Angela and Billy and then some of the 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:49.160 other Rodents were there and I was walking down the 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.760 aisle with Frankie. They had a smash cake, I guess 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.920 you'd call it, you know, where you smashing into each 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.920 other's faces. It was a really good wedding. We talked 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.720 last episode about the photo of the Rodents and Wagner's 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.640 from Tabby and George's wedding, and we can't stop looking 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:09.319 at it because it's just so chilling. The happiness on 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.680 everyone's face is palpable. But Christina now sees details in 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.320 the pictures she never saw before. In my mind, I 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.480 feel like the people in the picture should be sorted 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:25.360 out differently, you know, like in this placement, it's like 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.160 Tabby and George just sent off to Spike because even 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.120 though they're getting married, they're not the like the main attraction. 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:39.760 And Angie is just like top center wearing that white dress, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.880 like laughing in their face, like ha ha, y'all are 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.840 beneath me. Yeah. I was gonna ask you because people 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.280 have different views. But some people think you don't wear 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.520 white to anyone else's wedding. You know, why would Andrew 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.760 wear white? To another person's wedding. I mean, you're not 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.240 supposed to do that, because that is like supposed to 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:02.840 be like bad juju the married couple, like saying that 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.000 I hope that your wedding don't wind a long kind 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:10.840 of thing. It's clear that George Wagner and Tabby Howard's 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.280 wedding marked an inflection point in the lives of all 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.680 three families. After that day, nothing would ever be the same. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:24.320 Shortly after the wedding, we stopped hearing from her. The 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.200 last thing that we heard from Tabby was that she 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.680 was pregnant was my nephew, and she was given birth 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.120 to him, and that was it. We didn't get no 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:40.680 pictures of him, no nothing. We didn't hear anything from Tabby, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.280 nothing from Angela or George or anybody. They just like 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:55.920 straight up disappeared. We're going to take a quick break here, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:09.200 we'll be back in a moment. Nobody knew where they were, 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.600 nobody would knew what they were doing or anything. And 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.400 it weren't like that for a couple of years. Everybody 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.120 was just so concerned about my sister because we're like, 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.760 you know, we literally have not heard a thing from her. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:30.040 Then one night, Tabby suddenly resurfaced. It was a call, 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.480 like a random call in the middle of the night 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.040 from a gas station, from a number we didn't know, 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.480 and she's calling us, telling us, hey, can you come 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.280 get me. I'm here at this gas station, and you know, 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.280 we're freaking out, like, what's going on. We ain't heard 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.160 nothing from you in a few years. She said, I 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.920 don't really have time to explain, can come get me 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.280 and all that. So we packed up in the cars, me, 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.920 my mom and dad to go get my sister. And 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:03.800 then we get there and she's bawling her eyes out. 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.720 She rode there in the middle of the night. It 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:10.800 was raining cats and dogs outside. She's all wet and cold. 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.840 She rode there on a bike, and the police showed 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:20.800 up and put my sister in a car in the 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.880 cop car, asking her what was going on and everything, 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:30.040 and apparently her and George got into a fight. Angie 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.600 called the cops on her and said that she was 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:37.159 beating George and hitting was her two boy four and 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:42.680 everything else, and tried to stab him with scissors and 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:48.480 all this, And Tabby said that that wasn't how it happened. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.160 She said she was you know, I guess you got 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.560 into a fight with George and Angie and George wouldn't 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.760 like let her go and get his hands off of her. 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.720 George didn't have any marks on him to prove that 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.639 Tabby had beaten him. Tabby didn't have any marks on 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.160 her to prove that he was putting his hands on her. 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.720 So nobody got arrested, and just Tabby just got questioned 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.280 and all that, and then you know, she comes home 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.919 with us, and you know, we're sitting there trying to 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:25.840 catch up on everything. What Tabby Howard told her family 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.800 that night was deeply disturbing. Here's Christina's recollection of her 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:34.919 sister's story. According to Tabby, Angie wouldn't let her like 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:40.679 have a phone nan. She always said that Tabby was crazy, 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.920 and she was telling us all about how she was controlling, 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:49.560 and Tabby said that she wasn't allowed to, you know, 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.520 do anything with her kid, and Angie always said, no, 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:59.680 you're not, you're crazy, You're an unfit mother. She said 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.720 that she would all the time tell George about what's 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:06.920 going on and everything, and George was like, Oh, it's okay, 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.160 you're just being dramatic. Mom, want to do that? To you, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.760 and it's all for your own good blah blah blah, 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.760 We're just looking out for you. But why would they 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.000 do that? What would they have to gain from, you know, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:29.000 sitting there keeping my sister is basically a prisoner, and 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.800 you know, sitting there like mentally abusing her and everything else. 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.080 What would they have to gain from it other than 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:43.119 you know, my nephew. Christina's story about Tabby's escape from 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.760 the Wagner household may sound outrageous. However, it was convincing 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.600 enough for Agent Scheiterer to testify about it in court 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.840 during George Wagner's hearing last year. Was George Wager married? Yes? 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.800 Who is he married? And did he still live with 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.520 family at the time? During the time he was married 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:07.119 to Tabitha? Yes, okay, So Tabitha lived with them? Yes okay? 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:15.800 And are you aware of what happened that ended that relationship? Yes? 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:21.680 What happened? She fled the relationship. There was an incident 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.240 on one particular day, her and George had gotten into 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.680 an argument. Schiderer included a few frightening details that Christina 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.320 hadn't told us. Eventually, there was a comment by Angelo 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.359 that she was going to kill Tabitha, So she fled 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:39.640 to a gas station and ultimately never returned. And actually specifically, 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.560 she first hit on the property until nightfall and then 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.199 got out bike and drove to a gas station, and 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.320 Mabor escaped that way and never went back after that. Correct. 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.600 Soon after Tabby Howard fled the Wagner's household, the family 0:20:55.640 --> 0:21:00.240 became too much for victim Hanname Roden to bear as well. Hannah, 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.639 I guess she told my sister that that was really 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.080 courageous of her. She's proud of her. She was saying 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.040 that she was tired of it, tired of always being 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:14.760 controlled and told what to do and everything. So Hannah decided, 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.240 you know, that she was going to leave too. It 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.800 seems that Hannahme Rodin left Jake Wagner due to the 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:24.480 same reasons Tabby Howard left George. Some of these details 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.800 were illuminated at that same hearing for George Wagner last year. 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:32.359 Here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Ryan Scheiderer about some 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.360 messages hannahme had written. They were two other Roden family members, 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.240 and where about Jake, their breakup and her relationship with 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:44.719 new boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Were you aware why Canna may 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:51.879 laughed Ja domestic violence issues between Jacob solving her okay? 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:58.200 And you observe specific communications about that, Yes, she made 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.800 it aware, She made people aware of it, okay. Did 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.840 she also make comments about the Wagner family as a 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:12.600 whole being controlling? Yes. After she had left Jake, she 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:17.480 started seeing another individual and ultimately conceived a second child 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:22.840 with that individual, correct, yes, okay. And that was who 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:27.960 Charlie Gilly okay? And are you aware as to whether 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:33.080 or not Hannah told Jake that she was pregnant and 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:35.840 that she also told him who the father of the 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.399 child was. She told Jake as well as Angela, that 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.480 she was pregnant and it was Charlie Gilly's child, Okay. 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.399 During that time after she was pregnant Charlie Gilly's child. 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.800 In the months leading up to the homicides, did she 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:57.280 make it clear to Jake that they were not getting 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:02.479 back together? Very clear? Okay? And had he asked her 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:08.359 to engage in dialogue with an attorney in order to 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:12.400 try to work out custody between them, Yes, she made 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:15.800 attempts to get that done. Yes, okay. And what was 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:21.800 she interested in doing that. By the time Hannahme road 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:23.719 and left, Tabby Howard was in the middle of her 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:27.359 own custody battle with Jake's brother, George Wagner. Well, we 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.000 don't know all the details of George Wagner and Tabby's 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:33.359 custody case, there is evidence to support Christina's account of it. 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:35.920 It was a preview of what would come to bear 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:39.320 for Hannahme and the following months. My sister was gonna 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:44.280 do joint custody. My mom tried to help my sister 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:47.240 go through court and all that, with all that, you know, 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:50.320 trying to help her, and my sister told my mom 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:53.360 she said, no, it's okay, Angie will help me out 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.720 with it. And why she trusted Angie with it is 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:01.840 beyond me, and why she's still wanted to trust her. 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.399 Was court, I don't know. I don't know what it 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:07.959 was running through tabbith head, But somehow she got Tabby 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:13.960 to sign some paperwork saying that George would get full 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:19.400 custody of my nephew and that Tabby would only get 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:25.320 visitation rights like on their terms. She wasn't allowed to 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:32.800 leave the property. Was my nephew. Tabby Howard's custody story 0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.080 was also highlighted by Agent Scheiderer. Last year, there was 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:40.440 a divorce with some child custody issues where ultimately she 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:42.920 was forced to give up all control of her son 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:47.679 to George. So she gave up all of her parental rights. Okay, 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:50.760 and when you see she was forced to did someone 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:54.200 who would have gone into her head. No, okay, but 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:58.359 in fact what she prosed in the custody proceeds in 0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:08.240 not representing it correct and George Yes. Despite the Wagner's 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:10.920 repeated attempts to keep Tabby away from her son, she 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:13.600 tried to visit him as much as she could. Whenever 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:15.679 she would try to reach out to George like hey, 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:19.560 can I come visit my son, Angela would get on 0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:23.320 there and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore. 0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:26.160 You might have gave Martel him, but I'm his real 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:30.360 mother because I take care of em and all these 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:39.640 just nasty things. We're going to take a quick break here. 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:53.160 We'll be back in a moment. Tabby Howard made one 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:56.200 last valiant effort to see her son. It was an 0:25:56.400 --> 0:26:02.520 Easter because I remember my sister made her son an 0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:04.920 Easter basket, you know, wanting to give it to him 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:10.159 for Easter and everything. I went there with her. It 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:14.480 was me, her and my mom, and my mom stayed 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:17.240 in the car and I got out of the car 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:21.159 with Tabby and we walked up there, you know, knocker 0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:27.639 on the door, because she had previously called George j 0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:32.440 askin if she could come see her son and give 0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:36.560 him an Easter basket. He said, yeah, that's fine, come 0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:41.920 on over and you can see your son and give 0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:44.399 him his Easter basket. And she said all right. So 0:26:44.760 --> 0:26:48.440 we went there, and then once we got there, Angie 0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:53.680 answered the door, and you know, Tabby said, oh, I'm 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:56.960 here to see my son. Can I have a few minutes, 0:26:57.040 --> 0:26:59.200 you know, spend a few minutes with him for Easter? 0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:02.560 She said, let me go get George, and then she 0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:08.080 slammed the door, and my sister's faith and we're sitting 0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:10.840