1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. Grown Up Brown him he had such a 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: sweetheart and everything. Jake Wagner, he originally pleaded not guilty 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: to the murder of eight Rodent family members, say that 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: he was guilty. I am guilt. It just gives you 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: a complete chills. Jake admitted to personally killing five of 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: the eight into trying to burn and get rid of Avid, 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: and he'll now avoid the death penalty and spend the 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: rest of his life in print. If I've done something 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: to making that outrageously mad, he could have killed me too. 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: Wagners showed a little to no emotion in cour today, 12 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: just answering yes or no to the judge. But his 13 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: life was controlled all the time. Special Prosecutor said the 14 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: Wagners were a cult like family. I think it was 15 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: Jill Angelo behind the scene, control and everything, like a 16 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: little puppet master. This is the piked To Massacre. Returned 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: to Pike County season two, Episode two. Cinnamon and Hay 18 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: Lydecker and Jeff Shane. On April twenty second twenty twenty one, 20 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to twenty three counts, including eight 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: aggravated murder charges, in the Rodin murder case. The motive 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: behind the killings back in twenty sixteen, according to prosecutors, 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: was a custody dispute between Jake and victim hannahme Roden 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: over their young daughter. As it stands, the other three 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: Wagners accused in the murders, Jake's father Billy, mother Angela, 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: and brother George, have all pled not guilty. The day 27 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: that Jake appeared in court for his plea deal, we 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: caught up with Christina Howard. Her sister Tabby had a 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: relationship with the accused eldest son, George Wagner. The two 30 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: were married and had a son together, but eventually divorced. 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: When you found out for a fact that Jake was guilty, 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: what was your reaction? My reaction was like wow and away, 33 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: kind of speechless, because me and him were friends when 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: we were younger. You never really think about somebody who 35 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: is or once was a friend being able to take 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: so many lives like that. Last season, Christina told us 37 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: a little bit about a custody dispute that ensued between 38 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: Tabby and George Wagner after the couple split up. It 39 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: piqued our interest when we heard about it, since it 40 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: foreshadowed what was to come for hannahme Roden. Christina was 41 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: a little hesitant to divulge too much last time we spoke, 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: but in light of Jakes Please, she chose to delve 43 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: into Tabby's story a little more, and what we found 44 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: is far darker and much more disturbing than we could 45 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: have ever imagined. What follows is Christina's recollection of the events. 46 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: Christina's relationship with the Wagner family goes back to her childhood. 47 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: Her mother began working for grandmother of the accused, Frederica Wagner, 48 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: whom Christina affectionately refers to as Freddie. When she was 49 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: a kid. She was a grandmother to in a way. 50 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: I would go to work with my mother and I 51 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: would hang around Freddie a lot, and she traded my 52 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: family pretty kindly. On holidays, she would always get me 53 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: and my sister's presents, and I have Christmas dinners and 54 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: Easter dinners, and it was like, you know, us being 55 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: part of her family, and it was pretty nice. Eventually, 56 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: Christina and her sister Tabby, met Frederica's grandsons, George and 57 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. Christina told Jeff that George and Tabby hit 58 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: it off and soon became a couple. They got together 59 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: when they were young teens. I think my sister was 60 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: like thirteen fourteen, you know, and they ended up liking 61 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: each other. Did you think that George was badness? He 62 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: was a little bit of a travelmaker. Christina would often 63 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: tag along when Tabby went to visit George at the 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: Wagner's home. They had like this pretty little like house 65 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: up on the hill, and they had like their own 66 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: little pond up there. It was pretty isolated. They had 67 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: a privacy gate at the bottom that in order to 68 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: get in, somebody up at the top of the house 69 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: would have to come down and unlock it. Me, George, Jake, 70 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: and Tabby we would like go outside and you know, 71 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: do young dumb teenager kid type stuff and play tag, 72 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: jump on the trampoline and the treehouse and all that. 73 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: It was really fun and we could be as rowdy 74 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: as and noisy as we wanted because they didn't have 75 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: no neighbors whatsoever. While George and Tabby were hanging out, 76 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: Christina struck up a friendship with Jake Wagner. Jake was 77 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: actually a really nice kid. Me and him were kind 78 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: of friends. It was pretty cool. He was really nice, 79 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: kind of shy, who played video games and all that 80 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: good stuff as a kid. Jake struck Christina as kind 81 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: and almost unusually empathetic. I remember in Jake's bedroom, you know, 82 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: he had his own little TV and video game system 83 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,119 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and he had just one stuff duck, 84 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: and it was like hanging on the wall or something, 85 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: and it kind of gave me the creeps whenever I'm 86 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: a little kid. And he was sweet enough to take 87 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: it off his wall and hide it in his closet 88 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: or something, because the game of the creeps. The more 89 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: time Christina spent at the home, the more familiar she 90 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: became with the boy's mother, accused murderer, Angela Wagner, she's 91 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: sometimes referred to as Angie. Christina told Stephanie that on 92 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: the surface, everything about Angela Wagner seemed to personify the 93 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: typical all American mom. Out front was like this nice 94 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: little walk away with flowers and you know, the white 95 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: picket fence. Except in the country kind of deal. And 96 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: then like you go inside the house or the kitchen, 97 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: and then right beside the kitchen of the living room 98 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: and it's pretty big. They got like this huge section 99 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: ale and a nice big TV. And the house smelled 100 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: like it kind of smelled like cinnamon mixed with hay. 101 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: I don't know she could really imagine that, but like, 102 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,679 Speaker 1: take some may start around everywhere and sprinkle some cinnamon 103 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: in it, and that's what it smelled. Watched Angela would 104 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: make us some snacks or some lunch or whatever. I 105 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: think even like maybe twice she made us dinner. It 106 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: was pretty good. She sounds like a homemaker, which is 107 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: again what makes it so shocking to imagine that she 108 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: had the ability to do something so horrific. Yeah, but 109 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: the more time Christina spent at the Wagner home, the 110 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: relationship between the Wagner boys and their mother came into focus. 111 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: They were always around their mom, no matter what their 112 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: mom said. When always they wanted to play outside longer 113 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: if Angie said no, it was no. I yeah, they 114 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: wanted to play the video games longer if Andy said no, 115 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: it was no. Even if like they slightly disobeyed her, 116 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: she put her foot down meaning like, you better listen 117 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: to me or I'm gonna book your butt. And they're 118 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: just like, all right, Mama, It didn't matter what Angie said. 119 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: That's what went. As the kids got older, Angela Wagner 120 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: seemed to take more control over her boys lives, especially Jake. 121 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: We had a job somewhere and his mom like actually 122 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: made him quit the job because she said that the 123 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: job wasn't good enough for him, meaning Angela Wagner. Jake 124 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: Wagner's mom said, this job's over, it's not good enough 125 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: for you. Yeah. It's like, you know, your mom controls 126 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: your whole entire life. And it wasn't long before Angela 127 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: turned her controlling ways towards Christina's family. Angie made George 128 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: break up with Tabby because Angie didn't like my sister 129 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: because you know, George and Jake were Mama's boys and 130 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: ain't nothing in the world gonna be able to steal 131 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: her boys from her. She was just so controlling. Soon, 132 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner's true colors began to shine through her all 133 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: American facade. In some photos that I've seen ev Angela, 134 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: she looks smiley, and she's pretty and just looks like 135 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: an all American mom. But then in other pictures, like 136 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: her mugshot for example, she's sort of grimacing and has 137 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: a scary vibe. What was she like in prison? In person? 138 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: She was the tide, you know, to talk about every 139 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: day stuff like how you do, and how's your family 140 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: and everything else like that. But it felt like whenever 141 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: she would talk to you, it felt like an act 142 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: because that she was putting on, like you know, she 143 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: would looking down on the kind of thing is. At 144 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: least that's what I always picked up. She seemed like 145 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: she was put on a map. Makes people think so 146 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: she's all right, so whatever. But I never really did 147 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: like her. She's just books me. After the Wagner family 148 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: was arrested in twenty eighteen, the family's unusual dynamic became 149 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: a key building block in the States case against Angela, 150 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: Billy Jake, and George Wagner. On August thirty first of 151 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: last year, George Wagner appeared in court for a pre 152 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: trial hearing. Special Agent Ryan Scheiterer of the Ohio Bureau 153 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: of Criminal Investigation testified that day. He provided details of 154 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: what authorities had uncovered about the Wagners over two years 155 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: of investigating here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Scheiterer. How 156 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: would you describe the Wagner family. The Wagner family from 157 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: what we found through the investigation as well as their 158 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: own admittances, they're very close. When I say they lived together, 159 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: they've always lived together. There's not been a period of 160 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: time where George Wagner has not lived with his brother 161 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: or his mother. But their finances are intermingled. They worked together, 162 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: They've always worked together. They homeschool together, they raised their 163 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: kids together. Everything is done together. So from birth until 164 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: the day they were arrested, they lived together. Yes. Do 165 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: you have an opinion as whether or not one of 166 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: them might strike out and go commit some haynes tiding 167 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: with you out and the others knowing about it or 168 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: participating in it. No, we have an informant who says 169 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: that every decision within that family is made as a 170 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: family decision. Years after Angelo Wagner force George Wagner and 171 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: Tabby Howard's relationship to end, the couple rekindled their romance. 172 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: Soon after, victim Hanname Rodin started going out with Jake 173 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: Wagner and the Rodens. Wagner's and Howard's became very close. 174 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: Hannah's brother, Victim Frankie Rodin even joined the Phray. Hannah 175 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: and Tabby were best friends, and Hannah and Jake were together, 176 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: and Tabby and George were together, and Frankie would hang 177 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: out with him a lot because they were like best 178 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 1: friends with Frankie ussos, so they were always like going 179 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: out hunting and fishing and stuff. Then one day, Tabby 180 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: Howard came to her family with some surprising news. She 181 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: and George Wagner were getting married. We didn't know anything 182 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: about it until shortly before it, so Karen something like us, like, wow, 183 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: that's crazy. Instead of excitement, Christina felt something much different 184 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: based on her time spent around the family and accused 185 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: mother Angela Wagner in particular. It just didn't feel right 186 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: to me, and I thought I'd speak my mind about it. 187 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: I told her, I said, listen, you don't want to 188 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: marry him, and she said, well why not? I said, 189 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: because his mom is very controlling. I said, you want 190 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: to wait a few years and see how things go 191 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: before you, you know, jump into getting married to him 192 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: and stuff. And she said, well, you're just full of it. 193 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: You don't know what you're talking about we love each 194 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: other and everything, and Angie's just trying to look out 195 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: for me. So towards that part, I feel like Angie, 196 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, like kind of turned her against her family 197 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: a bit more of like a I don't need you 198 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna spend my time with my new family. 199 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: I didn't want her to get married because of the 200 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: way I felt, but I felt like it wasn't my place, 201 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: because you know, intervene. If she's happy, let her be. 202 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: If not, she'll figure it out. On July first, twenty twelve, 203 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: all three families gathered for Tabby Howard and George Wagner's wedding. 204 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: That was a normal, pretty wedding. It was kind of 205 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: country because you know type. She had a camouflage dress 206 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: and George she had a camo tugs. Everybody's camouflage crazy 207 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: around here. They love it. Hanging up, you have somebody 208 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: what their favorite colors and they're like, oh, it's camouflage. 209 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: Me and two of my sisters and Hannah were her bridesmaids. 210 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: The bridesmaids we wore black dresses, and Jake was George's 211 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: best man. Obviously, the Wagoners were there. There was Freddy, 212 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: George and Angela and Billy and then some of the 213 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: other Rodents were there and I was walking down the 214 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: aisle with Frankie. They had a smash cake, I guess 215 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: you'd call it, you know, where you smashing into each 216 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: other's faces. It was a really good wedding. We talked 217 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: last episode about the photo of the Rodents and Wagner's 218 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: from Tabby and George's wedding, and we can't stop looking 219 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: at it because it's just so chilling. The happiness on 220 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: everyone's face is palpable. But Christina now sees details in 221 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: the pictures she never saw before. In my mind, I 222 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: feel like the people in the picture should be sorted 223 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: out differently, you know, like in this placement, it's like 224 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: Tabby and George just sent off to Spike because even 225 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: though they're getting married, they're not the like the main attraction. 226 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: And Angie is just like top center wearing that white dress, 227 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: like laughing in their face, like ha ha, y'all are 228 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: beneath me. Yeah. I was gonna ask you because people 229 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: have different views. But some people think you don't wear 230 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: white to anyone else's wedding. You know, why would Andrew 231 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: wear white? To another person's wedding. I mean, you're not 232 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: supposed to do that, because that is like supposed to 233 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: be like bad juju the married couple, like saying that 234 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: I hope that your wedding don't wind a long kind 235 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: of thing. It's clear that George Wagner and Tabby Howard's 236 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: wedding marked an inflection point in the lives of all 237 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: three families. After that day, nothing would ever be the same. 238 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: Shortly after the wedding, we stopped hearing from her. The 239 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: last thing that we heard from Tabby was that she 240 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: was pregnant was my nephew, and she was given birth 241 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: to him, and that was it. We didn't get no 242 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: pictures of him, no nothing. We didn't hear anything from Tabby, 243 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: nothing from Angela or George or anybody. They just like 244 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: straight up disappeared. We're going to take a quick break here, 245 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: we'll be back in a moment. Nobody knew where they were, 246 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: nobody would knew what they were doing or anything. And 247 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: it weren't like that for a couple of years. Everybody 248 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: was just so concerned about my sister because we're like, 249 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, we literally have not heard a thing from her. 250 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: Then one night, Tabby suddenly resurfaced. It was a call, 251 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: like a random call in the middle of the night 252 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: from a gas station, from a number we didn't know, 253 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: and she's calling us, telling us, hey, can you come 254 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: get me. I'm here at this gas station, and you know, 255 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: we're freaking out, like, what's going on. We ain't heard 256 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: nothing from you in a few years. She said, I 257 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: don't really have time to explain, can come get me 258 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: and all that. So we packed up in the cars, me, 259 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: my mom and dad to go get my sister. And 260 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: then we get there and she's bawling her eyes out. 261 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: She rode there in the middle of the night. It 262 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: was raining cats and dogs outside. She's all wet and cold. 263 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: She rode there on a bike, and the police showed 264 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: up and put my sister in a car in the 265 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: cop car, asking her what was going on and everything, 266 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: and apparently her and George got into a fight. Angie 267 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: called the cops on her and said that she was 268 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: beating George and hitting was her two boy four and 269 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: everything else, and tried to stab him with scissors and 270 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: all this, And Tabby said that that wasn't how it happened. 271 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: She said she was you know, I guess you got 272 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: into a fight with George and Angie and George wouldn't 273 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: like let her go and get his hands off of her. 274 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: George didn't have any marks on him to prove that 275 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: Tabby had beaten him. Tabby didn't have any marks on 276 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: her to prove that he was putting his hands on her. 277 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: So nobody got arrested, and just Tabby just got questioned 278 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: and all that, and then you know, she comes home 279 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: with us, and you know, we're sitting there trying to 280 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: catch up on everything. What Tabby Howard told her family 281 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: that night was deeply disturbing. Here's Christina's recollection of her 282 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: sister's story. According to Tabby, Angie wouldn't let her like 283 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: have a phone nan. She always said that Tabby was crazy, 284 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: and she was telling us all about how she was controlling, 285 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: and Tabby said that she wasn't allowed to, you know, 286 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: do anything with her kid, and Angie always said, no, 287 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: you're not, you're crazy, You're an unfit mother. She said 288 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: that she would all the time tell George about what's 289 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: going on and everything, and George was like, Oh, it's okay, 290 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: you're just being dramatic. Mom, want to do that? To you, 291 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: and it's all for your own good blah blah blah, 292 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: We're just looking out for you. But why would they 293 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: do that? What would they have to gain from, you know, 294 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: sitting there keeping my sister is basically a prisoner, and 295 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: you know, sitting there like mentally abusing her and everything else. 296 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: What would they have to gain from it other than 297 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: you know, my nephew. Christina's story about Tabby's escape from 298 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: the Wagner household may sound outrageous. However, it was convincing 299 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: enough for Agent Scheiterer to testify about it in court 300 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: during George Wagner's hearing last year. Was George Wager married? Yes? 301 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: Who is he married? And did he still live with 302 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: family at the time? During the time he was married 303 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: to Tabitha? Yes, okay, So Tabitha lived with them? Yes okay? 304 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: And are you aware of what happened that ended that relationship? Yes? 305 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: What happened? She fled the relationship. There was an incident 306 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: on one particular day, her and George had gotten into 307 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: an argument. Schiderer included a few frightening details that Christina 308 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: hadn't told us. Eventually, there was a comment by Angelo 309 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: that she was going to kill Tabitha, So she fled 310 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: to a gas station and ultimately never returned. And actually specifically, 311 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: she first hit on the property until nightfall and then 312 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: got out bike and drove to a gas station, and 313 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: Mabor escaped that way and never went back after that. Correct. 314 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: Soon after Tabby Howard fled the Wagner's household, the family 315 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: became too much for victim Hanname Roden to bear as well. Hannah, 316 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: I guess she told my sister that that was really 317 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: courageous of her. She's proud of her. She was saying 318 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: that she was tired of it, tired of always being 319 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: controlled and told what to do and everything. So Hannah decided, 320 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: you know, that she was going to leave too. It 321 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: seems that Hannahme Rodin left Jake Wagner due to the 322 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: same reasons Tabby Howard left George. Some of these details 323 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: were illuminated at that same hearing for George Wagner last year. 324 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: Here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Ryan Scheiderer about some 325 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: messages hannahme had written. They were two other Roden family members, 326 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: and where about Jake, their breakup and her relationship with 327 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 1: new boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Were you aware why Canna may 328 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: laughed Ja domestic violence issues between Jacob solving her okay? 329 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: And you observe specific communications about that, Yes, she made 330 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: it aware, She made people aware of it, okay. Did 331 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: she also make comments about the Wagner family as a 332 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: whole being controlling? Yes. After she had left Jake, she 333 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: started seeing another individual and ultimately conceived a second child 334 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: with that individual, correct, yes, okay. And that was who 335 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: Charlie Gilly okay? And are you aware as to whether 336 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: or not Hannah told Jake that she was pregnant and 337 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: that she also told him who the father of the 338 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: child was. She told Jake as well as Angela, that 339 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: she was pregnant and it was Charlie Gilly's child, Okay. 340 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: During that time after she was pregnant Charlie Gilly's child. 341 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: In the months leading up to the homicides, did she 342 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: make it clear to Jake that they were not getting 343 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:02,479 Speaker 1: back together? Very clear? Okay? And had he asked her 344 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: to engage in dialogue with an attorney in order to 345 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: try to work out custody between them, Yes, she made 346 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: attempts to get that done. Yes, okay. And what was 347 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: she interested in doing that. By the time Hannahme road 348 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: and left, Tabby Howard was in the middle of her 349 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: own custody battle with Jake's brother, George Wagner. Well, we 350 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: don't know all the details of George Wagner and Tabby's 351 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: custody case, there is evidence to support Christina's account of it. 352 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: It was a preview of what would come to bear 353 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: for Hannahme and the following months. My sister was gonna 354 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: do joint custody. My mom tried to help my sister 355 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: go through court and all that, with all that, you know, 356 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: trying to help her, and my sister told my mom 357 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: she said, no, it's okay, Angie will help me out 358 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: with it. And why she trusted Angie with it is 359 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: beyond me, and why she's still wanted to trust her. 360 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: Was court, I don't know. I don't know what it 361 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,959 Speaker 1: was running through tabbith head, But somehow she got Tabby 362 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: to sign some paperwork saying that George would get full 363 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: custody of my nephew and that Tabby would only get 364 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: visitation rights like on their terms. She wasn't allowed to 365 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: leave the property. Was my nephew. Tabby Howard's custody story 366 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: was also highlighted by Agent Scheiderer. Last year, there was 367 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: a divorce with some child custody issues where ultimately she 368 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: was forced to give up all control of her son 369 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: to George. So she gave up all of her parental rights. Okay, 370 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: and when you see she was forced to did someone 371 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: who would have gone into her head. No, okay, but 372 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: in fact what she prosed in the custody proceeds in 373 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: not representing it correct and George Yes. Despite the Wagner's 374 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: repeated attempts to keep Tabby away from her son, she 375 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: tried to visit him as much as she could. Whenever 376 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: she would try to reach out to George like hey, 377 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: can I come visit my son, Angela would get on 378 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: there and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore. 379 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: You might have gave Martel him, but I'm his real 380 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 1: mother because I take care of em and all these 381 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: just nasty things. We're going to take a quick break here. 382 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. Tabby Howard made one 383 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: last valiant effort to see her son. It was an 384 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: Easter because I remember my sister made her son an 385 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: Easter basket, you know, wanting to give it to him 386 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: for Easter and everything. I went there with her. It 387 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: was me, her and my mom, and my mom stayed 388 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: in the car and I got out of the car 389 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: with Tabby and we walked up there, you know, knocker 390 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: on the door, because she had previously called George j 391 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: askin if she could come see her son and give 392 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: him an Easter basket. He said, yeah, that's fine, come 393 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: on over and you can see your son and give 394 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: him his Easter basket. And she said all right. So 395 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: we went there, and then once we got there, Angie 396 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: answered the door, and you know, Tabby said, oh, I'm 397 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: here to see my son. Can I have a few minutes, 398 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, spend a few minutes with him for Easter? 399 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: She said, let me go get George, and then she 400 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: slammed the door, and my sister's faith and we're sitting 401 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: out there waiting a good ten fifteen minutes, and then 402 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: George comes out. She asked George, she said, what was 403 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: that about? Why was your mom, you know, being hateful. 404 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. And he was like, oh, she's 405 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: just not in a good mood today. And she said, 406 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: where's our son. You know, I'd like to see him? 407 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: You said I could come see him. He said, oh, 408 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: he's in there with a fever right now. He's sick 409 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: from staying up all night and day, throwing a fit 410 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: and everything else, you know, just coming up with another excuse. 411 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: And then my sister started crying. She said, well, I 412 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: just wanted to see my son. You said I could. 413 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: What's the problem? Man. He was telling her like, oh, 414 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: don't cry, Everything's all right, And then he like tried 415 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: to hugger, and she said, no, I don't want to 416 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: hug you know. She said, don't touch me, and he's like, 417 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: all right, I won't touch you, you know. She was 418 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 1: like wiping away her tears and stuff. She said, well, 419 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: can you at least give this to our son, and 420 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: if you have time, whenever he gets it, can you 421 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: send me a picture of him with it, even if 422 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: it's just a picture. I'm happy to see my son. 423 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if he ever got the Eastern Basket 424 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: or not, or if they threw it away. I don't know. 425 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: Like Tabby Howard victim, Hannime Rodin kept up the fight 426 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,959 Speaker 1: for her child after she and Jike Wagner had broken up. 427 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: But the Rodents had one advantage Tabby didn't We didn't 428 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: have money like the Roden's got money, because they had 429 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: money too, maybe not as much as the Wagner's, but 430 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: they still they still, you know, lived pretty damn comfortably. 431 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: If they wanted you to, you know, take Angie to 432 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: court and all that, then Angie would have a real 433 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: pride monor hands, especially since they had money too, and 434 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: Hannah was the mom and here in ohiyas, the mom 435 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: has the right, and they weren't married, You're a sister, 436 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: and George were married, which immediately changes the custody discussion 437 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: from the start. So unlike with the two of you, 438 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: Hannah and Jake were unmarried, so he legally had no rights. 439 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: So that became an added trigger potentially right. And it 440 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: seems that the Wagners knew that. We talked last season 441 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: about forged custody documents the Wagners had drawn up in 442 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: order to get soul custody of hannahme Rodin and Jake 443 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: Wagner's young daughter. Agent Schuiderer discussed the genesis of these 444 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: custody documents, also called declaration documents, in great detail at 445 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: George Wagner's hearing last year. Here's an excerpt from that testimony, 446 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: you seize the computer from the Wagner's Is that correct, 447 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: trut okay, and that computer was analyzed for evidence correct. 448 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: During that review of the content of the computer, you 449 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: discovered that there had been documents Googled searched for on 450 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: April thirty, twenty sixteen. Correct, declaration documents correct, okay. And 451 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: then do you also see that those documents were printed 452 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: out of the computer on the same day. Yes, And 453 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: the bottom corner of the pages that says April third, 454 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: twenty sixteenth. Okay. So like computers sometimes do when you 455 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: print something and it says what day you're printing. React. 456 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: Did you ultimately recover those documents, the actual physical documents, yes, okay. 457 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: And it's your testimony that one of them was a 458 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: declaration reportedly made were apparently made by Hannah May where 459 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: it bore what was intended to be her signature. Correct. 460 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: Did you submit all of these documents to be examined 461 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: by a handwriting expert within DCI, Yes, okay. Did you 462 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: find out if in fact that was her signature? We did, 463 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: It was not her signature, okay. Additionally, you talked about 464 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: the fact that they were dated at a prior time, 465 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: and so I clear, are you saying that they were 466 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: in fact backdated? Yes, that is backdated as if it 467 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: were signed in twenty fourteen by Hannah a correct. Okay. 468 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: So they print out a piece of paper on the 469 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: April thirty, twenty sixteen. You see evidence of that in 470 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: the computer that it is also printed out that same day. 471 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: You later also recovered the original documents with a raised 472 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: stamp on it. Correct, And that piece of paper didn't 473 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: exist in two thousand and fourteen, correct, so it could 474 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: not have been signed on those dates. Correct. Okay. Prosecutor 475 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: Angie Kaneppa noted the unusual settlement on the Wagner's forged 476 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: custody documents. This paper says, if Hannah is to meet 477 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: her demise, then Sophia should go to Jake. Correct, Okay. 478 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: But if Jake meets his demise, then his child goes 479 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: to his mom correct, not to Hannah. Correct. Last season, 480 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: we highlighted an ominous Facebook message that hannahme Rodin had 481 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: written during her protracted custody battle with Jake. It was 482 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: discovered on a laptop owned by the Wagner family. Agent. 483 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: Scheider spoke about that message and the warning she received 484 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: from someone who was intimately familiar with the Wagner's nefarious ways. 485 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: At the hearing, you talked about the fact that this 486 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: relationship between Jake and Hannah was not going well, that 487 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: he was bugging her to sign stuff giving him custody. 488 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: Obviously they forged documents that if she were to die, 489 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: Jake would get custody. Was there a specific communication that 490 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: sticks out in your mind that Hannah may made to 491 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: another person that the Wagoners became aware of? Yes, a 492 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: Facebook message? Okay, messenger message? Okay, so a Messenger message? 493 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: Then who was that message too, Patricia? But it would 494 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: be Tabitha's mother, Okay, Tabitha, Georgie's wife. You said it 495 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: was a private messenger, correct, Yes, And so, if I'm 496 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: understanding correctly, private messenger is not something that anyone else 497 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: would be able to see except for the two people 498 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: that are messaging each other. Correct. Are you aware whether 499 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: or not the Wagoners became aware of that conversation? Absolutely, 500 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: we're aware of it. And how do you know that 501 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: there is a screenshot of this conversation found on the 502 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: laptop that belonged to the Wagner family. Okay, the device 503 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: was registered to Jake, but there's strong evidence that Angela 504 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: seemed to be the primary user of that laptop. Can 505 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: you tell us what were they discussing at the time 506 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: that she made this statement. The theme of the conversation was, basically, 507 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: Patricia was telling Hannah, you know, don't let what happened 508 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: to Tabitha happen to you. You know, don't you know, 509 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: keep fighting for your kid, don't give up your kid, 510 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: you know, basically saying, don't don't become another Tabitha. Okay. 511 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: And what does Hannah say get in the response to that? 512 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: This is the copy of the body of their text 513 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: their conversation, and her reply is, I won't sign papers. Ever, 514 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: it won't happen. They will have to kill me first. 515 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: So not only did was that Hannah Ma's sentiments at 516 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: the time that she would not sign papers ever, that 517 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: they would have to kill her first. This was her 518 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: sentiments on December tenth, twenty fifteen. And you know for 519 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: a fact that the Wagner saw it, in fact, the 520 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: same date as she said that. Correct. Yeah, okay, and 521 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: just over four months later, Panna and all of her 522 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: family are dead. Correct? And nonother question after the Rodent 523 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: family was murdered. Christina Howard and her family were panicked. 524 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: Pretty much, a whole bloodline gets marched off over the 525 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: custody of one kid. And you know, my sister is 526 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: she's got a kid with them too, And you know, 527 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 1: after we heard about it, we was like, oh shit, 528 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: better up on security because we ain't we ain't about 529 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 1: to get crossed out. But when the Wagoners were arrested 530 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, Tabby Howard's nightmare finally came to an end. 531 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: Once they were arrested. Um. He was in like a 532 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: child protect the services for a while, and after a 533 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: few months she was finally granted full custody of her son. 534 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: Following Jake Wagner's admission in court just weeks ago. Christina 535 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: had to come to terms with her feelings about the 536 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 1: one Wagner. She thought she could always trust grandmother, the accused, Frederica, 537 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: I love, but she's very gollible. They probably told her 538 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: some crazy stuff like all these people are after us, 539 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: they're trying to frame us for these murders. Blah blah blah. Well, 540 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: of course, if I'm gollible, I'm gonna hide them. Not 541 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: saying she did or anything, but like and in that 542 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,439 Speaker 1: kind of situation, Yeah, so what does the Wagner's sort 543 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: did history mean? If Angela, Billy, and George decide to 544 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: stand trial, they all maintained their please of not guilty, 545 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: it may force Jake Wagner to go to court and 546 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: sit in front of his mother, father, and brother of 547 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: a jury and Spiller's guts and a lot of things 548 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: we haven't known in the last five years are going 549 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: to be known. Then you know who went into what home, 550 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: who died first, why they died. You've got to believe 551 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: we are going to learn things we never knew before 552 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: and hear things you would have never believed. And if 553 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: the trials move forward, the stakes for Pike County prosecutors 554 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,760 Speaker 1: couldn't be higher. The case that the prosecution is building 555 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: against the Wagner family. It's not a single story ranch. 556 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: It's a freaking mansion. And they're investing a lot of time, 557 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: a lot of hours, a lot of capital in this thing, 558 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: and they don't want to see it fail because if 559 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: this thing fails, can you imagine what a nightmare this is. 560 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: If one little thing goes wrong with it, the whole 561 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: case can be destroyed. But on April twenty eight, twenty 562 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: twenty one, less than one week after Jake Wagner's pleadale 563 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,800 Speaker 1: took place, his brother George appeared in a Pike County courtroom. 564 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: Reporter Angeanette Levy was on the scene. George just found 565 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: out and the weak prior that his brother had confessed 566 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: and implicated his whole family. His attorney had been so 567 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: steadfast in court documents and saying, you know, my guy 568 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: didn't do this, he wasn't involved. Well, clearly now his 569 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: brother was saying that's not the case. That George the 570 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: fourth was very much involved. I think we were all wondering, 571 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: what is this emotions hearing going of you? Like, was 572 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: George Wagner going to change his plea More on that 573 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: next time. The Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County 574 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. 575 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional 576 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: producing by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker, Chris Graves, Tim Hamilton, 577 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: and Haley Nielsen. Engineering by Jason Freeman. The Piketon Massacre 578 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: Returned to Pike County is a production of iHeartRadio and 579 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 580 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.