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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of

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Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This

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Speaker 1: is Rob Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're kicking

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Speaker 1: off the new year on Weird House Cinema with two

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Speaker 1: different firsts. This is our first full length animated film,

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Speaker 1: and this is our first Hungarian film. You know, we've

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Speaker 1: done movies on Weird House Cinema before that. I almost

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Speaker 1: just purely enjoyed that, you know, I had almost pretty

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Speaker 1: much nothing bad to say about. But this is probably

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Speaker 1: the first movie we've done that is just purely beautiful

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Speaker 1: in in Uh. I don't know, Maybe maybe I'm forgetting

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Speaker 1: a case. So if we've done anything else really of

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Speaker 1: this caliber, man, I'm not sure that we have. You know.

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Speaker 1: One of the sort of frequent tropes that I find

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Speaker 1: myself saying about movies that I think are really beautiful

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Speaker 1: is that, well, you could take one still from the

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Speaker 1: film and you could put it on your wall. Um.

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Speaker 1: And on one hand, that definitely applies to this movie,

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Speaker 1: the movie we're talking about here today, Son of the

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Speaker 1: White Man, But it it's also a little unfair to

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Speaker 1: the film because it is a film as well discussed

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Speaker 1: that is that has such movement, and it's such pulsation,

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Speaker 1: such transformation that to make this moving picture stands still

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Speaker 1: is to rob some of its vital essence. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know that I've ever felt that about a movie before.

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Speaker 1: I completely agree, Yeah, that you cannot really capture the

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Speaker 1: art style of this film with stills from the movie.

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Speaker 1: You have to see it in movement. Yeah, because it

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Speaker 1: is constantly moving. It is constantly pulsating and changing colors

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Speaker 1: and changing forms and in just a way that I

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Speaker 1: have never seen before in uh, certainly an animated film,

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Speaker 1: but you know, in any motion picture. It this one

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Speaker 1: really stands apart. And yeah, I have I have trouble

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Speaker 1: comparing it to verse really anything else, and certainly to

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Speaker 1: to anything else that we've we've covered on the show.

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Speaker 1: I think I will be able to make some comparisons,

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Speaker 1: but they're all going to be pretty superficial. Uh. This

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Speaker 1: is one of the most unique movies I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are superficial links to other things, but

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Speaker 1: as a whole package, I can't think of anything like it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This so again, this is Marcel the Gyankovich is son

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Speaker 1: of the White mayor from one. I was not familiar

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Speaker 1: with this artist or his work at all before last month,

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Speaker 1: but then a few different things sort of happened. So,

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Speaker 1: first of all, credit where credits due. Listener by the

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Speaker 1: name of A. V wrote in and recommended the film,

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Speaker 1: calling it quote a strange and strangely beautiful film. But

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Speaker 1: then I have to admit I kind of forgot about

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Speaker 1: this recommendation, the strong recommendation, during the sort of December

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Speaker 1: madness that we always experience here on the show. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I later found myself needing some you know, hallucinogenic

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Speaker 1: but nondisturbing vision will stimuli to put on in the house.

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Speaker 1: And I noticed this film on a few different lists,

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Speaker 1: and um, and I think I even mentioned it to

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Speaker 1: you and possibly to Seth. And then I think you

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Speaker 1: were the one who remembered A. V. Bringing it up,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, it's been recommended there as well.

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Speaker 1: And so I what I did is I then went

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Speaker 1: to see if I could rent it at the local

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Speaker 1: video Drome rental store here in Atlanta. And while this

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Speaker 1: first attempt proved fruitless, owner Matt Booth told me that

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Speaker 1: it was in fact an incredible film and that it

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Speaker 1: was in high demand of late at the store, in

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Speaker 1: part because the The U S. Blu ray had just

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Speaker 1: come out earlier that year, and it also was during

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Speaker 1: the summer that the director passed away. Uh. So you

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Speaker 1: know a few different things sort of lining up that

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Speaker 1: really kind of pushed this film in front of more eyes,

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Speaker 1: and so I wasn't able to rent it initially. I

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Speaker 1: wound up watching the film on the Criterion channel, but

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Speaker 1: then I went back and rented it from Video Drome

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Speaker 1: just this last week and watched it again. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: my under standing that this film really got almost no

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Speaker 1: international audience at all upon its initial release, that that

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Speaker 1: this year now is the renaissance of this movie, uh,

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Speaker 1: and that far more people had seen an earlier film

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Speaker 1: by the same director, by Marcella Yankovich called Johnny Corn Cobb.

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Speaker 1: That's the English translation. It's a phil It's an animated

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Speaker 1: film adaptation of a Hungarian epic poem from the nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century that may have been based on some some older

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Speaker 1: Hungarian folk tales like this movie was. But the the

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Speaker 1: I think the Hungarian title is yeah, no Hvi tesh.

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Speaker 1: But in English that's Johnny Corn Cob. And I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen that one yet, but I I love the name. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that one is I believe included as an extra on

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Speaker 1: this That is recent Blu ray release, um which I'll

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Speaker 1: reference again. But it's um uh it's comes from our

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Speaker 1: bloss and it it's a it's a restored four K

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Speaker 1: version of the film uh by original camera negative from

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Speaker 1: the Hungarian National Film Institute Film Archives. So um, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a really beautiful package and it has a number

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Speaker 1: of extras which will touch on as we proceed. Now.

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Speaker 1: I don't know know about you, Joe, but one of

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Speaker 1: the things you know that I I was thinking about. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about this in terms of just animation experiences

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Speaker 1: of the past. Um. I've certainly been wowed by animated

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Speaker 1: films before, especially when I'm I've been introduced to sort

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Speaker 1: of a new genre or a new body of work,

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Speaker 1: or a new sort of you know, national or regional

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Speaker 1: style of animation. UM. I remember Miyazaki's NAUSICAA had that effect.

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Speaker 1: I mean when I when I first watched it, and

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Speaker 1: and I still that hold that up as one of

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Speaker 1: my just absolute favorite films. And I had a similar

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Speaker 1: experience with the nineteen seventy three film Fantastic Planet Um

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Speaker 1: as well as nineteen eight one is Heavy Metal. Both

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Speaker 1: of these were films that sort of at the time anyway,

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Speaker 1: sort of made me rethink what animation could do, you know,

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Speaker 1: because you you know, if you're exposed to Disney growing up,

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Speaker 1: you're exposed to the cartoons that are on television, you

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Speaker 1: have a certain idea about what animation is, what a

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Speaker 1: cartoon is. Oh yeah, well, so one of the extras

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Speaker 1: on the Blu ray of this that we watched is

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Speaker 1: a long interview with Marcel Yankovich and he he talks

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Speaker 1: a lot about his history with like the Pannonia Animation

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Speaker 1: studio in Hungary where uh he got his start and

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Speaker 1: and there's one part in the interview where he he

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Speaker 1: talks about this problem that he experienced early in his career.

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Speaker 1: He had been working at this place called Pannonia. Will

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Speaker 1: probably get into more detail about that later on, but uh,

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Speaker 1: he'd been doing some sort of animation. Uh he wasn't

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Speaker 1: like leading projects at the time. He'd just been sort

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Speaker 1: of a you know, an illustrator for hire at the studio.

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Speaker 1: And uh he said that one of the pitfalls of animation,

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Speaker 1: quote was that we always had to make the story

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Speaker 1: either infantile or it had to be humorous. And he says,

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Speaker 1: aren't there other angles to this world? My greatest film experiences,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not talking about animations, My greatest film experience

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Speaker 1: has always happened after I left the cinema, and for

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Speaker 1: many hours I was still under the influence of the film.

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Speaker 1: And in the case of a comedy, this never happens.

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Speaker 1: And so he uses that as a as a point

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Speaker 1: of inspiration, like that he he wanted to create something

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Speaker 1: that was a little more, a little more subtle, and

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Speaker 1: a little more dangerous and a little uh you know,

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Speaker 1: not just a cartoon for babies or something for adults

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Speaker 1: that was supposed to be funny, something that could have

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Speaker 1: have a kind of mythic power or or or touch

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Speaker 1: on deeper themes, something that might make you cry. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I feel like that still seems to be kind

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Speaker 1: of a struggle, at least in the public consciousness concerning animation,

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Speaker 1: even only by virtue of of looking at at what

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Speaker 1: some of the main uh you know, fonts of animated

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Speaker 1: material are, you know, and like some of the networks

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Speaker 1: and all where it does aam that by and large,

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Speaker 1: you still have a whole bunch of animation for that's

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Speaker 1: aimed at children, and then you have this this other

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Speaker 1: subset of animation that is, you know, it's aimed at

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Speaker 1: at grown ups and intends to have kind of like

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Speaker 1: a you know, a bad boy style to it, like it's, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's animation, but it's dirty. Oh, it's animation, but

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Speaker 1: it has cuss words in it. Um, which we mature

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Speaker 1: thirty minute comedies for TV, you know, based on the

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Speaker 1: Simpsons model. They turned that into a million other shows. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and generally, you know, drift towards I feel like the

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Speaker 1: you know, the the baser into the spectrum there, you know. Um.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, this, where's this, uh, the mythic rail here?

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Speaker 1: Where's this this other line of thought in the public

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Speaker 1: conception and consumption of animation? And I think that's what

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Speaker 1: Yankovic eventually ended up pursuing with first Johnny corncob Or

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Speaker 1: Yano shvitish uh and Uh, which again was an adaptation

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Speaker 1: of a of a classic Hungarian poem, and then later

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Speaker 1: with with the movie we're talking about today, Son of

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Speaker 1: the White Mare, which is a is a gorgeous moving

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Speaker 1: and which I don't want to suggest that it's overly

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Speaker 1: serious because there are plenty of comedic elements in it um,

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Speaker 1: but that it is something that is is not just

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Speaker 1: a throwaway comedy. It's not like these early things that

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Speaker 1: that he talks about working on, like the Gustav cartoons.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you looked any of those up,

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Speaker 1: but I did not look at this. Well. The Goostav

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Speaker 1: cartoons appear to me to be about a man who

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Speaker 1: like gets very angry at a at a rascally boy

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Speaker 1: who's shooting a slingshot at him. I would say, not

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Speaker 1: on the same elevated level as Son of the White Mare.

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Speaker 1: But wait where did I get to? Oh? Yeah, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: so so here what we end up with is is

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Speaker 1: a is a very moving and powerful animated film that

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Speaker 1: that approaches this genre that could have been called cartoons

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Speaker 1: before as as a real project of art. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and it is Again any description, even a screenshot, doesn't

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Speaker 1: really do it justice, because it is this just hypnotic

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Speaker 1: affair that just resonates with mythic symbolism like you just

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Speaker 1: and I feel like sometimes I say things similar to

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Speaker 1: that about other other pictures, but but this one really

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Speaker 1: does it Like this this picture seems to have like

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Speaker 1: a visual language all its own, where um, in which

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Speaker 1: I feel like you could turn the subtitles off, you

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Speaker 1: could just uh and being a non Hungarian speaker, you

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Speaker 1: could you could just let this film wash over you

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Speaker 1: and you would still get most of it. It would

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Speaker 1: still speak a language that you understood, but but not

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Speaker 1: just a simplistic one of sort of like archaic myth

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Speaker 1: you know, formats and sort of you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: heroes journey type of thing, but like it's speaking in

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Speaker 1: some very rich symbols that are sometimes sometimes more obvious

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Speaker 1: and sometimes seem a little bit more esoteric. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I love I think I understand the juxtaposition you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. I mean, one aspect of this movie is

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Speaker 1: it's like about as classic of a narrative as you

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Speaker 1: could get. It's about like a it's about a strong

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Speaker 1: young hero who must go into the underworld to rescue princesses.

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Speaker 1: M But but on the other hand, it's got like

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Speaker 1: the the gnome with a beard as long as a

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Speaker 1: hoe whose beard turns into a sword, and just much

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Speaker 1: weirder stuff like that. Yeah, and has he has one eye?

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Speaker 1: And um, yeah, it's oh it's it's wonderful. Yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: get to that creature here in a bit. Uh, they're

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Speaker 1: not a ton of creatures and entities in this this film,

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Speaker 1: but every one of the things that pops up, every

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Speaker 1: one of the entities that pops up in the film

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Speaker 1: is very memorable. Now, speaking of which, I guess so

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Speaker 1: we should get to the elevator pitch here. Basically, we

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Speaker 1: follow Hungarian hero fan Juvo or tree Shaker as he

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Speaker 1: teams up with his two brothers and tries to defeat

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Speaker 1: the three dragons of the underworld and save the three

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Speaker 1: captive princesses. Now, if you think, well, I've seen a

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Speaker 1: hero fight dragons before, hold on a minute. These are

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Speaker 1: different than the dragons, you know, this is this is

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Speaker 1: not so conventional as as scales, wings, the smell garchetype, right,

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Speaker 1: they are all each one is drastically different from the other.

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Speaker 1: They're uh, they're shifting symbolic entities that also have a

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Speaker 1: certain certain comic nature to them as well, without like

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Speaker 1: overdoing it. Oh yeah, there was one thing I laughed

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Speaker 1: at in the movie, which is the second dragon, which

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Speaker 1: is sort of a an armored vehicle or a tank

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Speaker 1: with many guns attached to it. Uh, it just arrives

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Speaker 1: already shooting at everything, like before it even understands what

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Speaker 1: the situation is. And I thought that was very funny. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're I mean, they're they're they're they're monsters in the

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Speaker 1: you know, the sort of classic and tropics sense. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're all consuming and they're angry and they're um, they're

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Speaker 1: they're ready to fight. Oh that's another thing we should mention.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of wrestling in this movie. This is

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Speaker 1: essentially a wrestling movie even Oh yeah, this this is

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Speaker 1: six Degrees from El Santo. Yeah, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of competitions in this movie where uh, two characters are

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Speaker 1: in a or in a contest of strength, and what

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Speaker 1: they do to fight one another is grab the other

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Speaker 1: one and throw them into the ground. And how far

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Speaker 1: into the ground you can plant them when you throw

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Speaker 1: them is a sign of how strong you are. So when,

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Speaker 1: for example, tree Shaker, our our main hero, first meets

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Speaker 1: up with one of his brothers, the stone Crumbler, they

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Speaker 1: have a wrestling match, and stone Crumbler, I think he

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Speaker 1: kind of throws tree Shaker down to his ankles in

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Speaker 1: the ground. But tree Shaker, you know, pulls his legs

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Speaker 1: out of the mud and then grab stone Crumbler and

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Speaker 1: just buries him up to the chin. Yeah. And the

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Speaker 1: maneuver here is uh, it's great. I'm not criticizing it

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Speaker 1: at all, but it is. It is unlike any wrestling

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Speaker 1: hold you've seen. It is grabbing the other individual by

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Speaker 1: the waist from the front, picking them up as if

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Speaker 1: you might pick up a child. Yeah, and then and

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Speaker 1: then just shoving them down feet first into the earth,

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Speaker 1: often like literally into the earth, embedding them like a steak.

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Speaker 1: So good, I never wanted to to end. I want

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Speaker 1: a whole wrestling league where they just operate on that basis. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who needs all of of El Santo's moves when you've

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Speaker 1: got this one? I mean it works for for tree Shaker.

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Speaker 1: All right. Well, let's go ahead and hear a little

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Speaker 1: trailer audio from the film. Um, I'm not again, this

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Speaker 1: is not going to really give you a full taste

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Speaker 1: of what's coming, but I think you will get a

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Speaker 1: taste of some of the audio, some of the music

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Speaker 1: and sound design, which which is also noteworthy in this picture.

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Speaker 1: Hold on wanting to get the magic atm odd lad

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Speaker 1: editors editional heading now regarding the sound design in this movie.

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Speaker 1: Of course it has wonderful music, but beyond that, I

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Speaker 1: was also very impressed by the quality of the vocal performances,

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Speaker 1: which are again in Hungarian so uh so I couldn't understand,

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Speaker 1: you know, what they were saying. Of course it's subtitled,

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Speaker 1: but but the voices they use it like, the cast

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Speaker 1: has this very soothing tambre. Uh that that I noticed

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Speaker 1: while I was watching the movie, and then afterwards when

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Speaker 1: I watched the interview with mar Hel Yankovic, he actually

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Speaker 1: talked about how the soothing quality of the vocal performances

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Speaker 1: was absolutely on purpose because he was trying to recreate

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Speaker 1: the quality of a parent telling a fairy tale to

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Speaker 1: a child who's about to go to bed, and that

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Speaker 1: ties into his broader vision of what this movie is

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Speaker 1: supposed to represent. Uh I guess to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: say it. A lot of people have called this movie psychedelic,

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Speaker 1: and that is I can understand why people say that,

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Speaker 1: but he sort of gently pushes back against that by saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, people assume when they see all the all

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Speaker 1: the protean animations and the way that the forms of

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Speaker 1: the characters and and everything in the world is constantly changing,

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Speaker 1: that this must assume that people assume he must have

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Speaker 1: taken I think at one point he calls it a

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Speaker 1: quote a magic substance. Uh that you know, he must

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Speaker 1: have been on LSD or something like that. But he

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Speaker 1: says no, He says he's never taken any psychedelic drugs,

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Speaker 1: that his vision for the art style of the movie

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Speaker 1: was based on dreams. Well, yeah, I mean that, you know,

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Speaker 1: dreams and psychedelic experience are not are not unrelated phenomena. Um,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess that's that's why I'm trying more

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Speaker 1: to say hallucinogenic and describing it than than psychedelic, because

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Speaker 1: I know that I had also seen an interview where

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Speaker 1: he kind of push back against that terminology. However, if

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Speaker 1: you are looking for a psychedelic film, uh, this will

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Speaker 1: not disappoint. Well, I mean, I think you can understand

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Speaker 1: it in the broader sense of psychedelic if you you

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Speaker 1: go beyond you know, the pharmacogenic psychedelics and just say

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Speaker 1: psychedelic means manifestations of the mind. You know that, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you're not just getting a pure read on a realistic

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Speaker 1: looking scene, but allowing your perceptions to be transformed constantly,

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Speaker 1: something that would be a byproduct of a lot of

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Speaker 1: pharmacogenic psychedelic experiences, but could also just be yeah, a

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Speaker 1: dream or you know, your your consciousness is altered in

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Speaker 1: some way for some reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I often

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Speaker 1: use the term and describing something that feels psychedelic uh

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Speaker 1: in its final form. Uh, not so much about like

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Speaker 1: what may or may not have been uh going around

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Speaker 1: in the you know, the brain or the blood vessels

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Speaker 1: of the individuals that created the film, because certainly, just

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Speaker 1: because you're using psychedelics does not mean that you're going to, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, produce something of quality. Um. I mean we've

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Speaker 1: I think we've we've covered a film or two on

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Speaker 1: weird House Cinema where there were at least some stories

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Speaker 1: about how the the director or the writer had had

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Speaker 1: been using psychedelics and and the results are not always

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Speaker 1: um uh top shelf. Let's just say at any rate,

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Speaker 1: I will say that in um, you know, in psychedelic

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Speaker 1: cinema and psychedelic literature and so forth, and and then

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Speaker 1: the arts. Yeah, there's often in a you know, this

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Speaker 1: tapping into this kind of protean energy, like you said,

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Speaker 1: tapping into the mythic and uh and uh. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it does seem that our so Yankovic uh was tapping

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Speaker 1: into two similar currents of consciousness and storytelling, but again

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Speaker 1: via dreams and via just a knowledge of mythology and folklore.

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Speaker 1: He he was, you know, deeply involved in the study

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Speaker 1: of mythology and folklore throughout his life. Well, I guess

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Speaker 1: should be transitioned to talking a bit about his life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's let's do so. Um. He was the director, the

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Speaker 1: co writer, and also has animator and layout artist credits

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Speaker 1: on this though to be clear, there was there were

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Speaker 1: a number of animators that worked on the film. I've

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Speaker 1: seen him describe to foreign audiences as both the Hungarian

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Speaker 1: Walt Disney and the Hungarian Miyazaki. I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure what he thought of those two labels. It's like

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Speaker 1: the Hungarian animation director that I know. Yeah, um so Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He was an acclaimed and award winning animator. He was

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Speaker 1: a longtime figure at Hungary's Pennonia Film Studio, creating such

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Speaker 1: feature length films as Any Corn Cob which we already mentioned, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the Tragedy of Man, which I think was his last

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Speaker 1: full length work, as well as such a claim shorts

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Speaker 1: as ninety four's Sisyphus and nine seventy seven's The Struggle.

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Speaker 1: Both of these are included as extras on the Blu

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Speaker 1: Ray for A Son of the White Mayor. And they're

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Speaker 1: both excellent. They're very different. They're they're black and white. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, they lack that kind of pulsiting color we

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Speaker 1: find in this film. But they're they're also both very clever,

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Speaker 1: and they also take certain mythological ideas and kind of

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Speaker 1: twist them, uh though into interesting forms. Did you watch

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Speaker 1: both of these rob I did, Yes, Yeah, they're very good.

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Speaker 1: So Sisyphus is I believe done with grease pencil, and

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Speaker 1: I think that Yankovic did that almost entirely by himself.

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Speaker 1: I think he had help of um, maybe one or

359
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Speaker 1: two other animators, but that one wash was almost entirely

360
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Speaker 1: his project. UM. And it depicts the you know, just

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Speaker 1: a figure pushing a boulder up a hill, but in

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Speaker 1: a very evocative way. And then of course it has

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Speaker 1: the it has a sort of reveal at the end,

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Speaker 1: you know, not to spoil anything. It's two minutes long,

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Speaker 1: but that you know, he's pushing a boulder up a mountain.

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Speaker 1: That is at the end revealed to be made of boulders.

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Speaker 1: So the idea is like, you know, the mountain is

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Speaker 1: made by this, by this tireless labor um. But then

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Speaker 1: the other one, the Struggle, I thought was very interesting

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Speaker 1: because the premise of that is that it's about a

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Speaker 1: sculptor who is chiseling away at a hunk of stone

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Speaker 1: to make it into a sculpture. But once the sculpture

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Speaker 1: begins to take on human form, it lashes out and

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Speaker 1: begins to sculpt the sculpture. So it gets a chisel

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Speaker 1: and starts hammering away like his hair line and stuff.

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Speaker 1: And by the end, the sculptor himself has been chiseled

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Speaker 1: down to a withered old man by the art that

378
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: he's been working on. Yeah, it's such a simple concept,

379
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Speaker 1: especially when you you know, just sort of describe it.

380
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Speaker 1: But it was, it's it's it's just brought to life

381
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: so wonderfully and you're watching it like, yes, that's this,

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00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 1: he's captured it. This is this is what what art

383
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Speaker 1: does to you. This is what work in life due

384
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Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, you're you're crafting the the thing and

385
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: the thing is also um taking his chisel to you.

386
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,439
Speaker 1: Now sisiphus was was apparently also used or part of

387
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: it was used in a two thousand eight Super Bowl

388
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Speaker 1: ad for GMC. Um. Yeah, does that make people want

389
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Speaker 1: to buy cars? I don't know, Um, I mean I

390
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: guess GMC was making like the statement is like we're

391
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: doing it, we're putting Maybe they didn't really understand the

392
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: stand the underlying this all that well, um, and they

393
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: just wanted something that would grab football fans attention. Well,

394
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: I want to be fair, I haven't seen how it's

395
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: used in that ad, or if I have, I don't

396
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 1: recall it. So maybe maybe I don't know, maybe it

397
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: makes sense in context, maybe it does, yes, um. But

398
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: but he was no stranger to advertisements as well, because

399
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 1: he also made a promotionary animation for Air India UM,

400
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: which is also included as an extra on this Blue

401
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: ray and is also very fascinating because you watch this

402
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: eight or nine minute long UM Air India commercial. It's

403
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: sort of a commercial, but there's no there's no voiceover.

404
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: Uh that's included in this kind of it anyway. It

405
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: only occasionally do things resemble airplanes or spell out Air

406
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: India and the rest of the times just kind of

407
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: this free forming animation of about sort of like travel

408
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Speaker 1: in India and a little bit about flight. So there's

409
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: a really interesting part of that, that thirty minute interview

410
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: on on the ray where I think the interview there's

411
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: you can actually find it online if you want to

412
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 1: look it up. It's called uh, it's called something like

413
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: brighter Colors or the colors or brighter or something like that.

414
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Speaker 1: Um and uh and and so it's worth a look.

415
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: But he tells the story of how actually working on

416
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: that Air India commercial sort of inspired what I would

417
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: say is the most defining artistic feature of Son of

418
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: the White Mare, which is the transforming quality that none

419
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: of the four ms in the movie are fixed. That like,

420
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: the forms of the characters are always kind of changing,

421
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: the forms of the landscape and the props within it

422
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 1: are always changing. Um. That in a way grows out

423
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: of his experience working on this commercial for an airline.

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Speaker 1: So he says that you know, he was when he

425
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: was younger, before he had had much success. He I

426
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: think he had just been working on stuff like you know, uh,

427
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: the the gustav cartoons and stuff. At this point he

428
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: was at Pennonia Studios and a man representing Air India,

429
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: which had recently opened an office in Hungary, came in

430
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: looking for a specific director or specific animator who worked

431
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: at that studio and said, uh, you know, I want

432
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: this guy to make a to make a commercial for

433
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: for our airline. And the way yank I it, she

434
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: tells the story, I'm not quite clear whether how much

435
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: deception was involved, but sounds like maybe what happened is

436
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: they came and got him and they were like, hey,

437
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: this the guy that uh, the guy that they want

438
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: doesn't want to do this. Can you pretend to be him?

439
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: And uh so Yankovic is like, sure, I'll do that.

440
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: Or maybe maybe it wasn't quite that deceptive, but there

441
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: was some kind of switcheroo involved and he ended up

442
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: working on this commercial when this other guy had been requested.

443
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: But he said, uh, he got a number of directions

444
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: from this representative from Air India about what he wanted

445
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: in the animation, and the first thing the guy said

446
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: that what he wanted more than anything else was that

447
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: there should be constant transformation. And he says this was

448
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: a turning point for me. I mean, I would say

449
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: constant transformation is the Yankovic style. Yeah, yeah, but He

450
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: also said that his work for This Air India ad

451
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: inspired him in a way to pursue projects that were

452
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: beautiful and full of emotions. Yeah, and so throughout his

453
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: career he seems to have stuck mostly to his own

454
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: projects and was again deeply involved in the study of

455
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: mythology and folklore. Um. His his one real foray into

456
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: American cinema comes from a perhaps unexpected play ice Uh.

457
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: He has an art department credit on Walt Disney's two

458
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: thousand film The Emperor's New Groove. Now have you seen

459
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: The Emperor's New Groove? I don't think I have. Um,

460
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: it's one I don't think I've ever seen it in

461
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: its entirety. I've seen parts of it. It's like a

462
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: farcical uh inc in silly adventure kind of a thing.

463
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: I think that's, Oh, this is something the inc and in.

464
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: But it's got a Llama. I think there's a Llama

465
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: and there's David Spade. Uh Yeah, it's got some got

466
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: some good talent involved. I know that this is a

467
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: film that many people grew up with and still find

468
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. And I don't doubt that for

469
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: a second. Uh. You know that it's it's uh, you know,

470
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: it's worthy of your fun. But it does sound like

471
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: this was a much different film. Earlier in its production,

472
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: it was going to be called Kingdom of the Sun,

473
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: and it was apparently going to be more steeped in

474
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: Incan mythology. Uh. And then apparently this shifted when the

475
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: co director left, and that was when Yankovic also left

476
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: the picture. But he still retains that credit. I was

477
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: looking around for more information invation on this to see

478
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: if there were like any surviving sketches that he had

479
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: done or um, you know. I it almost makes me

480
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: want to sit down and watch The Emperor's New Groove

481
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: to try and pinpoint things in it that feel like

482
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: at least an echo of his ideas in his work.

483
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: You know. So I already mentioned that that his work

484
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: on that Air India commercial being influential in in what

485
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: would come later, But in the interview he also talks

486
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: about an interesting but I don't know whether he would

487
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: say this as an influence on him, but a lot

488
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: of people have pointed out the similarities between his earlier

489
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: movie Corn Cob Johnny or Yanoshvitish and Yellow Submarine, and

490
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: he talks about how there was a point where he

491
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 1: was trying to secure funding for Corn Cob Johnny. This

492
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: was I guess he hadn't made a feature by himself yet,

493
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: and he had to do some storyboard presentations for a

494
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: bunch of big wigs. I don't know who they were.

495
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: I guess the you know, money people. And he thinks

496
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: that the success of Yellow Submarine really helped him break

497
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: through on that because he says, you know, before Yellow Submarine,

498
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is fair, and you know,

499
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: animation historians would think of it this way, but at

500
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: least in his impression, there were basically two sides. He

501
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: says there was the Hollywood style and that was by Disney,

502
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: and there was the New York based up a style

503
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: which he says was closer to European animation. And then

504
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: he says, I needed a third side, and Yellow Submarine

505
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: emerged and that was sort of a good starting point

506
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: for an alternative, a third side with which to approach

507
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: animated features. Ah, that's that's interesting. I wish I could

508
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: say more on it, because I have to. Then, I've

509
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: never actually watched Yellow Submarine already. I've only seen like,

510
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: you know clips, I know what the Blue Man he

511
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: looks like that sort of thing. But I watched it.

512
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: You would love Yellow sub You would, Yeah, I probably would.

513
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: I know it was my uh my father in law

514
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: is one of his favorite films, so I should definitely

515
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: give it a viewing sometime. I'll let you borrow my copy. Okay. Oh,

516
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: but there's one thing I wanted to come back to, uh,

517
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: which is he starts explaining this whole schema he has

518
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: in mind for what Son of the White Mayor is

519
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: and what its relationship is to dreams, to fairy tales

520
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: and to childhood bedtime. And so I just want to

521
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: read a longish quote from his interview that I think

522
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: helps illuminate some of the things we're going to talk

523
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: about when we get into the contents of the movie. Um. So,

524
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: he starts off again by saying, you know that the

525
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: movie was called psychedelic by people in the press, and again,

526
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: he never tried psychedelic drugs, so he couldn't exactly speak

527
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: to that. But he said that what he was going

528
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: for was to recreate the feeling of dreams. So he says, quote,

529
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,239
Speaker 1: dreams play a crucial role. The dreamlike quality of the

530
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: score and the dreaminess of the voice acting is also important.

531
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: Why was that important? It was important because based on

532
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: what I know, my interpretation, and based on their prevailing roots,

533
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: I say that hales should be told at bedtime, so

534
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: when a child is going to bed and approaches the

535
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: nighttime darkness. Even as an adult, I know that every

536
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: bad night keeps haunting me. Even when I can't sleep,

537
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: I only have bad thoughts. That's what dreams try to ease.

538
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: So at night, children are normally asleep, not awake, and

539
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: dreams help them through the difficult parts of the night.

540
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: That's what we have to feed with a positive story

541
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: and a happy ending. What is the happy ending? I

542
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: wake up and the sun is shining. And so from there,

543
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: he goes on to explain how it was important to

544
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: him that the voice acting in the movie have the

545
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: soothing quality of a mom or a grandma, or a

546
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: dad or a grandpa telling a tale to a child

547
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: at bedtime. I think that that absolutely comes across, and

548
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: especially the voice of sort of the godlike figure in

549
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: the movie. When it speaks, it is deep and soft

550
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: and reassuring, even when it's delivering bad news. And then

551
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: he later goes on to talk about how there there

552
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: was an interview he did in the nineties two I

553
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: believe Hungarian newspaper and um, when he was talking to

554
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: the photographer who came along for the interview, he said

555
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: that the photographer says, my son told me. Well he

556
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: first of all, he says, you know, my son, he

557
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: loves son of the White Mayor. But then he said,

558
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: my son says his dreams are like this. Oh wow.

559
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that means that the movie

560
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: captured what his dreams were already like, or if the

561
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: movie had influenced the way that he's dreamed, like what

562
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: his vision for dreams was. But I don't know. And anyway, Um.

563
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: Yankovic goes on to say that it's a it's a

564
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: true acknowledgment of an artist's intentions, uh, to to have

565
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: a child say that this is what my dreams are. Yeah,

566
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: I can imagine. So um. Oh man, it's so much

567
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: to unpack their Like he kind of has his own,

568
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: uh theory of of why we dream and what purpose

569
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: dreams lay in our lives, um, as well as advice

570
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: and what kind of what sort of stories should be

571
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: you should be reading to your child at night. I

572
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: feel like maybe maybe I'm doing it slightly wrong right

573
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: now because we're reading Japanese ghost stories and I don't

574
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: worry about it. But no, no, no, I I do

575
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: very much like his his take on this and UH.

576
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: And in terms of dreams being like this film, I mean,

577
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: I'm tempting. My gut reaction is I don't feel like

578
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: my dreams are ever this beautiful uh and the you know,

579
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: and in this visual But on the other hand, I

580
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: do feel like the logic of dreams is very much

581
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: in the narrative such as it is of dreams, UH,

582
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: is very much like the visual representation of this film,

583
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: that things shift, take on different forms, merge together in

584
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: ways that seem novel and symbolic, and then can easily

585
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: disengage and become something else again, and we don't question

586
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: why that's happening. That's a very good point. I see

587
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: that parallel entirely. One last funny tidbit from this interview

588
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to share. He says that when his mother

589
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: saw a Son of the White Mayor, she said to him, son,

590
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: you'll never make another film that's as good as this one. Wow,

591
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: this is combining the compliment with pure discouragement. You've done it.

592
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: You've made the best film you can possibly make. It's

593
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: over for you. Well, it is a great film. And

594
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: I haven't I haven't seen any of his work than

595
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: that he did after this, but I've heard good things.

596
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: The guys at Video Drome were encouraging me to try

597
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: these other films of his, But I already had my

598
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: heart set on The White Mare, and I knew from

599
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: the you know, from some of the visuals that it

600
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: had to be The White Mare, had to be Son

601
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: of the White Mayor. Uh, these other films were not

602
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: going to be the appropriate first viewing experience. Oh yeah,

603
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: I mean whatever good qualities his other works might have,

604
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: I think, at least in terms of features, if you

605
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: exclude the shorts, it is agreed by probably both him

606
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: and by his audiences that Son of the White Mayor

607
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: is is the masterpiece. That's the one. Don't start with

608
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: Gustav which while we were talking, a glanced at it,

609
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: and it it has kind of a Mr. Magoo kind

610
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 1: of look. If you're curious what it is like, it's

611
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: that style of animation. Gustav is the Misadventures of a

612
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 1: grump with a peanut head. All right, just a few

613
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: other people I wanna credit here for being involved in

614
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: the film, and I also want to go ahead and

615
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: apologize for any uh in fact, all butchering of the

616
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: Hungarian language and Hungarian names here. But I'm going to

617
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,919
Speaker 1: do my best. Um. First of all, the co writer

618
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: on this was Louslow Georgy who lived eighty six, primarily

619
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: an actor. This is their only writing credit, at least

620
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: according to IMDb. Now, as far as the cast goes, again,

621
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: we have to to drive home that the vocal performances

622
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: in this, all in Hungarian, are beautiful and everyone does

623
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: a great job, but most of these names are not

624
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: going to really be that familiar to anyone outside of

625
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: Hungarian cinema or you know, outside of that was apart

626
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: from anyone who's familiar with Hungarian cinema. But one of

627
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: the individuals credited is Georgi Shami, who was born in

628
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: Uh does a few of the different voices in this,

629
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: including tree Shaker, our our primary character, our hero. This

630
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: guy seems to be a pretty big name in Hungarian

631
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: cinema based on just some of the credits I was seeing.

632
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 1: He was in the nine eight one German film Mephisto

633
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: by East von Zabo and this film won the Best

634
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: Foreign Language Oscar So uh, you know, uh, that sounds

635
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: like like he's somebody of note, and I'd be interested

636
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: to hear from anyone who has certainly more experienced with

637
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: Hungarian cinema than I do. Uh. Now, in terms of music, uh,

638
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: there's not a credit on this picture for for music score,

639
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: but there there are two credits for sound engineer, and

640
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: I'm assuming these are the two individuals that we we

641
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 1: should thank for this film's otherworldly sonic landscape, which again,

642
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: is this wonderful combination of kind of I mean, it's

643
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: almost hard to describe because it's not very um, you know,

644
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: it's it's not a tune you're gonna find yourself humming,

645
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: but it is has this kind of electronic pulsation, but

646
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: without at times feeling very electronic, but other times just

647
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: feeling very ethereal. Actually, one of the things he talks

648
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: about in that interview is the difficulty of synchronizing music

649
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: with animation, which I'm sure is uh is a nightmare probably,

650
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: I I can't even begin to imagine. There's like one

651
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: part where he's talking about having to divide the film

652
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: into into half second blocks that you would try to

653
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: match with the like the number of frames that would

654
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: be on the screen and how much time would elapse

655
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: in the musical composition. I don't know, it's hard to like.

656
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: When you watch the final product, it's it's so ethereal

657
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: and artistic and beautiful, but so much brute crunching, grinding work,

658
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: tedious work of that kind had to go into it

659
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: to make it make the beautiful product we got in

660
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: the end. These are the real stone crumblers right here. Yes,

661
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: and the two credit individuals are and again, apologies for

662
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: butchering these names at all, but Maches Scally and Bella Sendner. Okay, Well,

663
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: here's the part of the episode where in a lot

664
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: of cases we would sort of break down the plot

665
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: in more detail. You know, I can kind of go

666
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: through sequentially and talk about things that caught our interest. Um,

667
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: this movie, you can't really break down the plot and

668
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: a lot of detail because the plot is very high level.

669
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's sort of at the level of a

670
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: fairy tale, and a lot of the moment to moment

671
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: happenings on screen or sort of abstract artistic changes and

672
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: uh and and just visual representations of emotions flowing out

673
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: of the characters or out of the scene. Uh. Doesn't

674
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: make for a very good verbal summary on a podcast,

675
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: but I think we can at least talk some about

676
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: the characters and the players in the film and and

677
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: what struck us about them. Yeah. So, first of all,

678
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 1: the film is titled Son of the White Mayor. Uh. Well,

679
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: the amazing main character we should mention first is the

680
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: White Mayor. This is the main character's mother. She is

681
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: this um, this sort of cosmic horse, this beautiful white Mayor,

682
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: and UM. I did some brief reading about, you know,

683
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: some of the mythologies and belief systems of um. You

684
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: know that's kind of like the of the of this

685
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: part of European culture. And apparently you do see bits

686
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: of this and various customs that you know, this idea

687
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: of some sort of of of of a primeval horse

688
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: that has some sort of relationship with heroic figures and gods. Yeah.

689
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: So you see this horse giving birth to this little

690
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: creature that is at first sort of shaped like a horse,

691
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: but then there is the quality of humanity in the

692
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: little horse, in the like the what do you call

693
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: a baby horse? A full is in the full I think,

694
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: and something like like a human form somehow kind of

695
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: erupts out of the full like it it pulses out

696
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: and then eventually just seizes the form entirely. I'm not

697
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: sure what that was supposed to represent, but but it's

698
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: it's a wonderful sequence. Yeah. Yeah. And this this hero

699
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: we're we're told is the third offspring of the White Mare.

700
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: And this is our hero tree Shaker, who as a

701
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: child is just this kind of adorable little blonde haired

702
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: boy that has this kind of loincloth or diaper that

703
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: I think she gives him made from her own main uh,

704
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: But he will grow up in time to become this,

705
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: this flameheaded hero who is all summer in daylight, all

706
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: passion and courage, tremendously strong, and a great wrestler of

707
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: men and monsters. He seems to represent again, both summer

708
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: and just just bright daylight. He is. He is the

709
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: culmination of those ideas. He has a yellow golden color scheme,

710
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: and as an in his adult form, he's got this

711
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 1: big uh like what would you call it is almost

712
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: a flame shaped hair do, kind of like the ThunderCats

713
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: or like a troll doll. I had, you know, I

714
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: didn't think about ThunderCats until you mentioned it, but yes,

715
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: it is very ThunderCats. It makes me wonder if they

716
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: were inspired by you know, because I forget which who

717
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: always involved in ThunderCats, if those were those set of

718
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: Japanese animation studio or not. But I wonder if within

719
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: the animation world like these influences. You know, we're we're

720
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 1: already in place at that point. Yeah, I don't really

721
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: know anything about ThunderCats. Um, but but hey, we should

722
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: mention the other two brothers. Yes, they neither are as

723
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: impressive as True Shaker. Like True Shaker is the main

724
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: show here. Uh, he has all the gifts. Meanwhile, Stone

725
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: Crumbler is mostly this bumbling brother who represents I think

726
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: the morning. Uh he can crumble Stone, but he isn't

727
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: really good at anything else. He's mostly there for kind

728
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 1: of comedic fodder. Yeah, he's the comic relief, I would

729
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: say he And he's got a funny voice in a mustache.

730
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: He looks a little bit like Mario. Yeah. Yeah, and

731
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: he has big like he has big shaggy pants right,

732
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: like they're made out of a wool or something. Yeah,

733
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: he's got big pants and thick legs. And that actually

734
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: reminds me of one of the things that's interesting about

735
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: Corn Cop Johnny. I don't know if you saw depictions

736
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: of the main character in that, but he has a

737
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: small head and big legs, and uh, Yankovic said, you know,

738
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: some people kind of criticize that, like, oh, why is

739
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 1: his head so small here? Why are his legs so big?

740
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: Why are his feet so big? But he had to

741
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: go to explanation for that. He's like, well, you know,

742
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: it's it's almost like perspective, like this character is larger

743
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: than life. So when you look at him, it's like

744
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: he's even though he's sort of scale to the other characters,

745
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: the fact that his legs are huge and his upper

746
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: body is smaller, it's like you're looking up at a

747
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: figure that is vanishing into the clouds, as you know,

748
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: Like the perspective is taking the upper parts of his

749
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: body uh to a vanishing point. Uh. And it's it's

750
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: very good, you know, the big the big cuffs on

751
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: the ankles. That kind of works makes them look like

752
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: a giant, that's true. Yeah. And then the third brother

753
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: is Iron Temperer. This is our kind of winter iron

754
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: worker brother, who I think has elements of like nighttime

755
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: to him. He's he has this uh this colder uh spirit. Yeah,

756
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: he's blue, he's he's he's far more serious, but also

757
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: gets criticized by tree Shaker for not doing a good

758
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 1: job on things. Uh. There are there are sequential scenes

759
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: where both Stone Crumbler and Iron Temperer get brutally spanked

760
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: by their other brothers when they failed to cook a

761
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: porridge and weave a rope correctly during the daytime. And

762
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: to protect that porridge from the next actor. We should

763
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: mention um who we alluded to earlier. This is the

764
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: gnome the I believe they refer to him in the

765
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: translation as the seven colored Gnome. Yes, he appears when

766
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: the brothers or so they're looking for a hole that

767
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: will provide an entrance to the underworld because they've been

768
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: given a quest where they know that there are three

769
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: princesses who are imprisoned in the underworld where they're they're

770
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: kept prisoner by these three horrible dragons, and so they're

771
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: looking for a hole where they can get down into

772
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: the underworld. And while they're looking for a hole, each

773
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: day two brothers go out and the other one stays

774
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: home to cook a porridge and weave a rope and uh,

775
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: every day this gnome shows up and he's like, hey,

776
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: that looks like some pretty good porridge. Can I eat

777
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: it all? And when the brother says no, the gnome

778
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: overpowers them with his With his he has a tentacle

779
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: like beard. It's like a beard that can sort of

780
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: grab you and change into anything. And so he'll overpower

781
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: them with his tentacle magic beard and then put the

782
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,439
Speaker 1: burning hot pot of porridge on their belly and then

783
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: eat it and then force the brother to eat a

784
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: bunch more porridge and give them a belly ache. Yes,

785
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: so it's a little strange, but yeah, yeah. The the

786
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: other strange thing about this gnome and this is technically

787
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: a spoiler, but nothing I can really say can spoil

788
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: this movie for you. Um if we later on find

789
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: out that the gnome, who is the depicted as having

790
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: one eye, uh is seems to be like a shard

791
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: of or the remnants of the Forefather, the the primordial

792
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: sort of deity that is alluded to earlier, and it

793
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: is ultimately restored at the end of the picture. Yeah. Oh,

794
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: but so the gnome gets the better of the other

795
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 1: two brothers. But when tree Shaker finally encounters him. Uh,

796
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: tree shaker, of course, you know, he can't be beaten.

797
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: So he gets the GNOME's beard, he cuts it off,

798
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: and he turns the beard into a sword. Yes, yes,

799
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: the sword that the then comes in play and the

800
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: battles to come. All right, So let's so we have

801
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: the three princesses and the three dragons. I wonder if

802
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: we should talk about the three princesses first, or or

803
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: talk about the pairings like the princess and the dragon. Oh, yeah,

804
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: we can talk about the pairings, okay, okay. So the again,

805
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: like all three brothers seemed like they seem to be

806
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: tied with the difference with a certain season in a

807
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: different time of day, and the same goes for the princesses. Uh.

808
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: You know, we have our night princess, we have our

809
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: morning princess, and we have our day in summer princess um.

810
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: And then the dragons themselves have sort of different themes

811
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: going on. We'll we'll discuss here. But the first princess

812
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: that he attempts to say, and he meets her before

813
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 1: he encounters the dragon, is this night princess, who is

814
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: certainly the most seductive of the three, like very very

815
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: sensual depiction. Um. She has often picked a topless or

816
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: and or nude or nearly nude um. And she's also

817
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: has kind of a sneakiness to her, a kind of

818
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 1: selfishness to her. Yeah, she seems tricky in a way

819
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: that the other two princesses are not. And then the

820
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: dragon that is guarding her, that has kidnapped her, that

821
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: that is protecting her, and that that the tree Shaker

822
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: must defeat is the three headed dragon, which uh again,

823
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: Buddha side any any like vision in your head of

824
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: what this dragon should look like, because what we're talking

825
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: about here is kind of this rock and jewel eating monolith,

826
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: this kind of golem with three heads and prominent testicles

827
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: dangling uh between its legs. It's like a stone broute

828
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: with vaguely Mesoamerican design elements. In the way it's depicted,

829
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: it seems to represent kind of like mining and consumption

830
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: of natural resources. Like it's very hungry. It just wants

831
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: to eat a bunch of gems and rock. Yes, there

832
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: is a There was some interview I came across where

833
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: Yank Fitch described the idea he had for the three

834
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: different dragons, in that the three dragons sort of represented

835
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: the darker elements of human industry in three different stages.

836
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: So the first dragon, the three headed dragon is is

837
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: somehow like mining and uh and the dark parts of

838
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: human industry going back to the Stone Age. And then

839
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: the next dragon we're going to talk about is more

840
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: the present, and then the third dragon is the future. Yes,

841
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: so obviously he's going to defeat all these dragons. So

842
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: then we don't really have to describe the battles all

843
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: that much. I guess we can a little bit as

844
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: as it comes up, but basically, you know what's gonna happen.

845
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: They're gonna wrestle. Tree Shaker is going to win, and

846
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: then he's gonna move on to the next saving the

847
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: next princess defeating the next dragon. The next princess is

848
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: the Morning Princess, and she's she's good mannered, she's she's

849
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 1: not like her her sneaky sister, but she also seems

850
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: very anxious. Um and the dragon that is guarding her

851
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: is this seven headed dragon. And and this guy is

852
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: just a tank like juggernaut of just cannons and warfare.

853
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: He is like a battle ship but with treads. A

854
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: tank a land battleship. Yeah, and it's you know, watching

855
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: this this film, it's it's enough of a of a headshaker.

856
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: When you encounter that first dragon, it's like, oh, there's

857
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: nothing like a dragon. This is not what I expected.

858
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: But it's a marvelous and it's it's so inventive and creative.

859
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: And then the yeah, the the dragon. The next dragon

860
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: to come along, the seven Headed Dragon, is just a

861
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: completely different beast. But I think the third dragon is

862
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,439
Speaker 1: maybe even the most interesting of the three. I don't

863
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: know about visually because they all look beautiful, but it's

864
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: the most conceptually interesting because it doesn't even have the

865
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 1: form of something you you normally think of as able

866
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: to attack you. So the first has like legs and arms.

867
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: It's like a three headed monster, but made of stone.

868
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: The second one is at least to vehicle. It's a

869
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, an armored vehicle attacking you with guns and

870
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: rolling ahead on treads. The third dragon, known as the

871
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: twelve Headed Dragon, is a city. It's like a city

872
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: skyline made out of skyscrapers. Yeah, and there's this wonderful

873
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: when it's shifting forms, because again, everything in this this

874
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: film kind of shifts forms and is constantly transforming and pulsating.

875
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: It has this pixelized quality to it, which feels like, yeah,

876
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's the it's modernity in the future.

877
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: It is not only the idea of the city, but

878
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 1: it's also uh like digital technology, you know, it's it's pixelization. Yeah.

879
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: At some point, the lights in the skyscrapers that formed

880
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: the heads of the dragon starts sort of like beeping

881
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: in patterns that look more like when you watch sci

882
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: fi movies from the mid twentieth century you'll see like

883
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: button panels where all the buttons are lighting up in

884
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: different ways. I think it was trying to evoke that. Yeah. So,

885
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: so each dragon more underous than the last um and

886
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: I guess to a certain extent, the princesses as well. Uh,

887
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: because the third princess is the summertime Princess, and she's

888
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: clearly the one. Like the second that tree Shaker sees her,

889
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: there's this marvelous scene where they clearly fall in love

890
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: with this. It's like their eyeballs have each other's heads

891
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: in them and it's marvelous and hypnotic. Yeah, totally, She's depicted.

892
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: I think as Um as like a brave and true

893
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: like she she actually helps Tree Shaker defeat the dragon,

894
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: like she helps him swing his sword. Yeah, whereas the

895
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: first one is kind of conniving and kind of like, well,

896
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: I guess i'll let you, I'll help you, or you know,

897
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: if we'll see what happens. The second one is too anxious,

898
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: and this one is actually brave and will help. But

899
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: in any case, yeah, each each of these challenges Tree

900
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: Shaker is up for. He's gonna bury each of them

901
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: up to their neck in the in the in the

902
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: dirt via wrestling, and then he's going to cut their

903
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: many heads off with his magical sword. Oh and then

904
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: one thing I love about it is this is true

905
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: of a lot of great old myths. It doesn't end

906
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: with the battle with the like the last Boss, you know,

907
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: the last Enemy. There's an epilogue where you've got to

908
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: find a way to return to the mundane world to

909
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: get out of the underworld. And he does this by

910
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: by conferring with a griffin who needs him to get

911
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: some stuff before you take him to the up world.

912
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: And I think it was twelve oxen and twelve barrels

913
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: of wine. Yes, yeah, that was the bribe and he

914
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: has to constantly feed the Griffin these things as they

915
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: ascend out of the underworld, and towards the end, I

916
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: believe he accidentally eats one of tree Shaker's legs and

917
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, if I knew you tasted so good,

918
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: I was just eating you outright, but uh, and instead,

919
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to repair your leg and then he does so.

920
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: He uses like griffin magic to stitch his leg pieces

921
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: back together after puking them up. Yeah. Yeah, the Griffin

922
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: is tremendous, and it has this kind of Star Drake

923
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 1: quality to it, you know, it's a very cosmic looking

924
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: entity that uh that I actually feel it's more like

925
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: a you know what, the popular conception of a dragon. Uh,

926
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,959
Speaker 1: you know, it looks more like that than than any

927
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: of the villainous dragons in the film. One thing I

928
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: thought was interesting about the Griffin was that it in

929
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: a way kind of lacks a texture that most of

930
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: the other characters had and looks more like the simple,

931
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: two dimensional way that Griffins or other creatures would be

932
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: depicted on Heraldry. And I wanted that was that purpose.

933
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 1: I feel like there's there's nothing in this film visually

934
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: and symbolically that isn't on purpose. You know. This is

935
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: one of those films where where every everything that happens,

936
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: you're you're you feel like there's there's a reason here,

937
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: there's a there's a message here, and maybe I can

938
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: understand it, maybe I can't. You know, I have to

939
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: say there there's a lot of what I guess you

940
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 1: might call sort of psycho sexual imagery in the picture. Um,

941
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: not in a way that that generally feels obnoxious or anything,

942
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 1: but but it's it's certainly there, you know, well in

943
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: the way that it's there in a lot of myths. Yeah, yeah,

944
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: I mean it's like, how do you tease the two apart?

945
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: How do you know, present mythology that is accurate to

946
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: the myth without having these themes? And so those themes

947
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 1: are very very apparent in this film as well. Though

948
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: I want to stress like it's not the kind of

949
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: film that I would I would hesitate to show to

950
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: my my nine year old. In fact, I invited him

951
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: to watch part of this with me, and he I

952
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: think he ended up going and doing something else. He

953
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: was like, this doesn't make any sense. Okay, Um, maybe

954
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 1: I'll try it a get on him. Another time when

955
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 1: he's he's you know, ready to sit down and watch something.

956
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: But but you know, I guess with with all films

957
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: like this, you know, check it out, go to IMDb

958
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: and uh and look at the the parental advice, uh

959
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: to see if it is what you're comfortable to showing

960
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: your your your young ones. Um. But but I I

961
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: feel like like everything is is pretty well managed in

962
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: this film as long as you're okay with you know,

963
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: nude cartoons at times and repeated hilarious spanking scenes. Yes,

964
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: I guess it's mainly for concerned parents. It would be

965
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: the spank kings, the breasts, and the pendulous testicles of

966
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: the first dragon. Um. Though there is a lot of

967
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 1: phallic imagery with the sword of of tree Shaker that again,

968
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: like any kind of symbolism, and this seems very intentional.

969
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: While I'm at it, I will go ahead and just

970
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: mentioned that the parental advice that is user generated on

971
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: IMDb is one of my favorite things these days, and

972
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: first of all, because it's useful. Anytime we're about to

973
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: cover a film and weird house, I go and see

974
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: what's there because generally, if unless it's a film that's

975
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 1: super obscure, I can get a heads up on any

976
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: problematic material that's going to be in the film. But

977
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 1: also I just I love the user generated comments because

978
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 1: sometimes it's very much you know, it's it's very straightforward, like, well,

979
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: there's a certain amount of nudity in this there's this

980
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: kind of violence, and there's this kind of other stuff.

981
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: Other Times it's something like there is implied nudity in

982
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: this scene, which which I'm not even sure needed to

983
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: be called out, you know. But but but I love

984
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: reading that stuff. I like the ones where it's like,

985
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: there is picture of a tobacco pipe, Yeah, it is

986
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 1: implied that someone smokes it. Yes, Uh, it is implied

987
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: that this character went toilet at something. Yeah, that sort

988
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: of thing. There's a lot of good you tc out there. Yeah. Well, anyway,

989
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: I loved Son of the White Mare. I did. Is

990
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:27,479
Speaker 1: we already recommending it to friends of mine? I wonder, though,

991
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts on this. What were to

992
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: make of the film's final image, that of tree Shaker

993
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: Gigantic walking through a landscape of modern buildings, you know,

994
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: like like it's a forest. Because I'm again reminded of

995
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: the themes of time and myth and modernity in this film,

996
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering is is this is this the filmmaker

997
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, create a sense of balance of

998
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: like the modern world in the mythic world sort of coexisting. Yeah. Maybe,

999
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think I had an opinion

1000
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: on that. It just sort of washed over me. But yeah, yeah,

1001
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: it's it's stuck with me. I mean a lot of

1002
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: with this film is stuck with me. It certainly reminds

1003
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: me of that quote from him about you know about

1004
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: the idea of of the the important films are the

1005
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: ones that you think about the next day, you're thinking

1006
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 1: about later that they're they're resonating in your mind. And

1007
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,720
Speaker 1: I feel like this one, this one resonates. I highly

1008
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: recommend this to our our listeners. Yeah. Yeah, coming back

1009
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: to that quote, I mean, that is something that I

1010
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,240
Speaker 1: don't think I'd ever put into words like that before.

1011
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: But there is clearly a distinction in different types of

1012
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: movie experiences, Like I can go see a movie and

1013
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: I walk out of the theater and well, that was cool,

1014
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: and then I don't really think about it again. And

1015
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: there and then there are the ones that put you

1016
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,399
Speaker 1: in a different state of mind, and you are, like

1017
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: the words he uses are you are under the influence

1018
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: of the film after you're walking around outside the theater um.

1019
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: And yeah, they're definitely movies like that. This is one

1020
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: of them, and I do love that quality. Yeah, I mean,

1021
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: just thinking about weird how cinema selections like Spooky's is

1022
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: not a film that I think about a lot, you know,

1023
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: it didn't. It doesn't really inspire a lot of deep contemplation.

1024
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: But then other films like Psychomania. I probably think about

1025
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: Psychomania every every couple of days. How can you not? Yeah, alright, well,

1026
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: some of you out there may may be saying, well, okay,

1027
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: I'm I'm on board. I want to see Son of

1028
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: the White Mayor. How can I see it? Well, speaking

1029
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: at least to us audiences here, Uh, the Blu ray

1030
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: again is tremendous. It's a new four K restoration. Uh.

1031
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: This comes from original camera negatives that were supplied by

1032
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: the Hungarian National Film Institute Film Archive in collaboration with

1033
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: our bloss highly recommend picking that up. We rented it

1034
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: from Atlanta's own Video Drome, So if you are in Atlanta,

1035
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: you can go to Video Drome and rent it. We

1036
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: recommend that, but also you have a streaming option. Uh,

1037
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: you can stream it on the Criterion channel, which is

1038
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: is pretty great and of itself. I mean, it's the

1039
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: Criterion Collection, so you know what caliber film you're gonna

1040
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: encounter there. But if you want to, if you want

1041
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: to be a little cheap, uh, you can do what

1042
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: I initially did. You can you can sign up. You

1043
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: can get that free trial of your Criterion channel. Watch

1044
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: Son of the White Mayor, and then you can decide

1045
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: if you want to stick around for the rest of

1046
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: what they have to offer, which of course is a lot.

1047
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it's a good movie to watch

1048
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: if you're trying to convince yourself not to shave your beard. Yeah,

1049
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: you don't want to be this weakling gnome who just

1050
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: stuck in the underworld. All right, we're gonna go and

1051
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: close it out then. But if you want to listen

1052
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: to other episodes of Weird House Cinema, it publishes every

1053
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: Friday in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed.

1054
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: We are primarily a science and culture podcast with core

1055
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Fridays that's our

1056
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: time to set aside most serious matters and just discuss

1057
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: a weird film. We also have listener mail on Monday

1058
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Speaker 1: in a short form episode on Wednesdays, which thanks as

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Speaker 1: always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If

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Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us with

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Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest topic

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Speaker 1: for the future, or just to say hello, you can

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Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

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Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff to Blow your Mind is production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit

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Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.