1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: I wanted her love so bad, and she couldn't love 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: me enough to tell me the truth even before she died. 3 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, A show about 4 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 5 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: change everything. Carmen Rita Wong grew up in New York 6 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: in the seventies. Her earliest memories are of her mom, Lupe. 7 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: Lupe was glamorous. 8 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: She was always dressed to the nines and the red lipstick. She, 9 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: along with my grandmother Maya Boela, both from the Dominican Republic, 10 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: were seamstresses for Oscar de la Rena, who was Dominican 11 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: and employed a lot of the Dominican women immigrants to 12 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: New York City. 13 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: Oscar de la Renta was one of the most expensive 14 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,919 Speaker 2: and exclusive designers in the world. First ladies and movie 15 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: stars wore his designs. 16 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: And they dressed up to be seamstress's. Maya Boila as well, 17 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: always in an Oscar suit that she had probably made 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: with her own hands. 19 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: Carmen was raised in Harlem, and she's proud of where 20 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: she came from. 21 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: The neighborhood we lived in was mostly Dominican immigrants. Puerto 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,839 Speaker 1: Rican basically of all colors. So for me going to 23 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: day care, being around my cousins lived across the street, 24 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: My grandfather's cleaners was on the corner, and we all 25 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: just coexisted in a very great supportive way. Colorful, texture, smells, 26 00:01:51,600 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: just the richness of it all, not money but life, 27 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: thing that even now I look back on with nostalgia. 28 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: Carmen's parents were separated. She lived with her mom and 29 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: spent the weekends with her dad in Chinatown. 30 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: We call him Poppy Poppy Wong. 31 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: She thought he was the epitome of Kool. 32 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: He was like a Chinese Johnny Cash, That's what he 33 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: looked like to me, with a black leather jacket and 34 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: slick black pants. Senec pompadour. 35 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: Carmen and her older brother Alex cherished these weekends with 36 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: Poppy in his neighborhood. 37 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: He loved to take us to these very fancy Chinese 38 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: restaurants where his boss would be like sitting on a 39 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: tire level in the restaurant for more important people, for 40 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: the VIPs. 41 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: She didn't know what her father did for work, but 42 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 2: whatever it was, it was important. 43 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: We'd be snaking through the restaurant and he'd be saying 44 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: hi to everybody and bring us up and introduce us 45 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: to his boss and the people and show us off. 46 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: But in Chinatown, Carmen stood out. She and Alex looked 47 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: more Dominican than Chinese. 48 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: We got stared at a little bit, but we very 49 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: much felt like we were walks. This is where we belonged. 50 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: Even though Poppy wasn't around every day, he supported Carmen 51 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: and Alex financially. 52 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: He would show up with a wad of bills and 53 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: he would love to tease my brother and I and say, 54 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, do you want one hundred dollars? You want 55 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: two hundred dollars? You know how many dollars you want. 56 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 2: When the weekend was over, Poppy would bring the kids 57 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: back up town. 58 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: My mother and Poppy were cordial. I think what I 59 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: saw was my mother smiling and being cordial because she 60 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: wanted him to support us and help support his children. 61 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: Their parents. Separation forged a strong bond between Carmen and 62 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: her brother Alex. 63 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: Because my mother was working, because Poppy wasn't living with us, 64 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: and we were shuttled in between people during the day. 65 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: My big brother was my protector. He was the only 66 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: constant in my life. 67 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: They hung out after school watching Godzilla and Kung Fu 68 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: movies on the floor of their aunts, cousins and friends 69 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: living rooms. But then one day Carmen and Alex found 70 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: themselves in an apartment they didn't recognize. 71 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: I remember one day my mother bringing us to a 72 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: man's apartment. He was a white man. He had a 73 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: mustache and this big seventies kind of curly hair, in 74 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: glasses and smoked a pipe and you seemed very educated. 75 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: The two of us were thinking at the same time, 76 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: something's happening, What is happening. 77 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: She and her brother started sleeping over at this man's apartment. 78 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: I remember the first time this man call him Marty. 79 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 1: In the morning, woke up and made us breakfast, which 80 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: we'd never seen a man in a kitchen before. Woke 81 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: up and made us eggs, soggy eggs, and then offered 82 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: ketchup with the egg and my brother was horrified and 83 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: refused to eat anything. And I remember just looking at 84 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: this guy and looking at the way my mother looked 85 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: at him, and I realized I needed him to like me. 86 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: So I was like, okay to the ketchup on the eggs. 87 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 2: Marty and Loupe's relationship moved very quickly. They started dating 88 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: and then marriage. 89 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: It was that sudden. It was boom, boom boom. It 90 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: almost felt as if there was no time in between. 91 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: It could have been in the matter of a couple 92 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: of months. 93 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: Without warning, Lupe and Marty decided to move the family 94 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 2: to New Hampshire. 95 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: Away from all of our family, away from Egg, everybody 96 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: and everything we knew, to a place that was completely 97 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: might as well have been Mars. 98 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: The marriage and the move to New Hampshire was a 99 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: big adjustment. Even just getting around town was a new experience. 100 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: Carmen's mom lived in New York City for her entire 101 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: adult life and didn't know how to drive a car. 102 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: So my stepfather, Marty, had to teach her how to drive. 103 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: And the only time he could do that was after work, 104 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: and it was dark and we were in our little 105 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: neighborhood and we get pulled over on our street, my 106 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: brother and I in the back seat, and I don't 107 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: know what's happening. This is terrifying, And a police officer 108 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: says to my stepfather, we got a report of some 109 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: Puerto Ricans in the neighborhood. And thankfully my stepfather, of 110 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: course you know, as a white man was just like 111 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: no officer. We lived right you know, and his driver's 112 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: license had our eye dress. We lived right down the street. 113 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 2: This was the first time she realized that she could 114 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 2: be judged by the color of her skin. 115 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: So to all of a sudden be told that we 116 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: looked bad therefore were bad, bad enough to call the 117 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:25,239 Speaker 1: police on our own street. That message stuck with me forever, 118 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: and the culture shock didn't end there. When I started 119 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: grade school there, my brother and I were just in 120 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: for the shock of our lives. We were the only 121 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: brown black nation people around. 122 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 3: Her. 123 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: Mother taught her that being a good student was a 124 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: way to blend in, to assimilate. 125 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: My mother was constantly drilling into my head education was 126 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: the way to make it in this country. She was 127 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: a very smart woman who had to leave her country 128 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: and leave school at the age of fifteen, so she 129 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: channeled all of her ambition into me. And I wanted 130 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: my mother's love, so I had to get those a's 131 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: because she loved me. When I got a's, I just 132 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: became the model student. 133 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,239 Speaker 2: Loupe enrolled Carmen in Catholic school for her teachers were nuns. 134 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 2: One night at a parent teacher conference. 135 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: Sister Rita, I'll never forget, says to my mother, Carmen's 136 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: so smart and she's doing so great. It's because she's Chinese. 137 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: It's the Chinese in her. I was proud for a 138 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: split second because I was a Wong, so I'm you know, 139 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: I was proud of being a Wong so her split second. 140 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: But then I looked at my mother's face and I 141 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: realized she was not the Wong. In the car ride home, 142 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to assess my mother because I felt like 143 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: she might have been hurt by that comment, and so 144 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: I said, you know, mommy, sister Rita said I was 145 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: smart because I was Chinese, and my mother just did 146 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: a Mona Lisa smile and that was it. But I 147 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: knew she was not only okay, but she somehow had 148 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: something one up on this nun. 149 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: Not only did Carmen feel like an outsider at school, 150 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: but she began feeling that way in her own family, 151 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: especially as her mom and Marty started having children of 152 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: their own. 153 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: By the time I was eleven years old, there were 154 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: four children under the age of six in the house 155 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: my sisters. They had a different last name and having 156 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: a white father. They were treated differently, so I felt 157 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: like an orbiting moon, like I didn't belong. I begged 158 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: my stepfather to adopt me, for me to change my name. 159 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: I so wanted to be part of this new family, 160 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: but they kept telling me no. 161 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 2: Lubey reminded Carmen and Alex that they already had a 162 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: father back in New York and that he was the 163 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: one supporting them financially. 164 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: She explained to me from very young age that anything 165 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: that was mine and my brother's, whether it was tuition, 166 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: clothing expenses, anything was paid for by Poppy, and that 167 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: my stepfather, besides the roof over our head and the 168 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: food at the dinner table, was not contributing to my 169 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: brother and I at all. 170 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: She missed Poppy and their weekends together in Chinatown. 171 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: I went from seeing him a lot to barely seeing 172 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: him only a few times a year. So I was 173 00:10:58,840 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: looking for her Dad. 174 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: Marty, even though he was distant, was the closest thing 175 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: she had, so she started to call him dad. 176 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: It was another plea to just be a part of 177 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: this family, and I had four little sisters who called 178 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: him dad. 179 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: She and Marty developed their own kind of bond. 180 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: My way of getting close to Marty was involving myself 181 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: in whatever he was doing, whether it was changing attire 182 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: or fixing the car, chopping wood, or grilling a burger 183 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: or reading the Wall Street Journal. I became this surrogate 184 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: boy of his. 185 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: It went on this way well into her teenage years, 186 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: especially when Alex graduated from high school. 187 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: My brother left for college, which broke my heart. I 188 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: missed him so much. 189 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 2: He'd been the only person Carmen felt like was truly hers, 190 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: the only one who really under stood her. Poppy was 191 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 2: financing Alex's education at an elite college, and in the 192 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: summers he. 193 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: Would go work with Poppy to earn basically extra money 194 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: for college. 195 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: One summer, Alex was helping Poppy at his job delivering 196 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: boxes of costume jewelry around New York. 197 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 1: And then one night, my mother comes to my room. 198 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: I'm studying, and she does that thing when the parents 199 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: want to talk to you about something serious. They sit 200 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: next to you in the bed. I'm like, what's up, mom, 201 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: and she says, Poppy and your brother have been arrested. 202 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: It turned out those deliveries Poppy was making well, underneath 203 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: the jewelry in the boxes. 204 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: Was heroin. 205 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: While she was in high school, Carmen Rita Wong's father 206 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 2: was arrested for trafficking heroine. Poppy had always been mysterious 207 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 2: and constantly had lots of cash, but she had no 208 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: idea what he really did for work, and it turned 209 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: out neither did her older brother, Alex, who'd been making 210 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: deliveries with their dad. 211 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: I'm in shock. I can't even fathom what's happening. My 212 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: brother was the most straight and narrow straight a never 213 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: got in trouble. Was not like a party or drink 214 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: or nothing, full on nerd. I was stunned. 215 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,599 Speaker 2: The cops figured out pretty quickly that Alex was oblivious 216 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: to poppy scheme. 217 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: And my mother told me, thank God, gracias adios. She 218 00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: would say, my brother lost it so badly. He was 219 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: crying and begging, absolutely having a mental breakdown. The cops 220 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: were like, there is no way that you knew what 221 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 1: was going on. 222 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 2: She was relieved for Alex, but also furious at Poppy 223 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: for putting him in that situation. Ultimately, Poppy was sentenced 224 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 2: to ten years in prison. 225 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: My mother, because she was so strident about making it 226 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: in this country, doing something that would get you arrested. 227 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: You know you're dead. To me, he was undeserving of mention. 228 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: But my mother said, here's the big news for you. 229 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: There's no more money. There's nobody paying for your college 230 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: because Marty is not going to contribute. 231 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: Around the same time, Marty lost his. 232 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: Job and he was not able to find work for years. 233 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, my mother and my four 234 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: sisters were living on of his savings. 235 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: When she graduated high school, Carmen was on her own. 236 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: My mother her basic mantras, you're old enough, go work. 237 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: And that's what Carmen did. She moved back to New 238 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: York City, where she worked and put herself through college. 239 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: And I was just all full steam ahead. I had 240 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: to succeed. 241 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: In her twenties, Carmen began her career. She'd always wanted 242 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: to be a writer. 243 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: And she was offered a job and they said, okay, 244 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: well there's an opening and the Time Life building, which 245 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: is legendary. I was excited. I wanted to work at 246 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: Time or People, and they said, oh, it's Money magazine. 247 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: And I said, well, even in my twenties, I knew 248 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: get your foot in the door, sister, get your foot 249 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: in the door. And I ended up a money magazine. 250 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: Carmen was finding her independence, solidifying her sense of self. Meanwhile, 251 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: things back in New Hampshire were falling apart. Marty never 252 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: recovered financially after he lost his job. 253 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: My mother's white Knight had fallen off his horse and 254 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: wasn't getting back on it, and she was wildly disappointed. 255 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: She felt like she had gave birth to all these 256 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: kids and given them this fantasy, and he was disappointing 257 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: her and their marriage did not survive. 258 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: She wasn't surprised to hear the news about Loupe and 259 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: Marty's divorce, but for Carmen, life in New Hampshire was 260 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: in the rear view mirror. She and her brother Alex 261 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: had both settled in New York, and as adults it 262 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: became closer than ever. 263 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: I have my midtown job and I had my own 264 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: apartment back up town with my Dominican people up in 265 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: Washington Heights, and I get a call from my brother 266 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: and we talked a lot. But this call was later 267 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: than usual, and his tone was different, and I was like, 268 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: what's up and he said, oh, I talked to mom. Okay. 269 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: After her divorce, Lupe threw herself into religion. Part of 270 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 2: that process for her meant reconciling decisions she'd made in 271 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: the past. So she called Alex make a kind of confession. 272 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 2: Lupey told Alex she had terminated pregnancies both before Carmen 273 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: and after, and. 274 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: We both kind of just stood there on the line 275 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: in silence. That just seems odd, right, Like why would you? 276 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: Why was I? 277 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 2: Why had Lupe chosen to keep Carmen. The confession brought 278 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 2: up those same feelings Carmen had for a long time, 279 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 2: the sense that she was missing something that she didn't 280 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: have all the information. 281 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: I couldn't put my finger on it, and I just 282 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: could not shake this nagging feeling that something was wrong. 283 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 2: Carmen was well into adulthood. Now she wondered how much 284 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: did she really know about her own story? Was there 285 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 2: something her mother wasn't telling her? 286 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: There was a story about me, the story that she 287 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: was not telling any of us, and it didn't jibe 288 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: with who I was. I was getting close to thirty, 289 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: and it was a big mystery. 290 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: But just as she began to ask those questions. 291 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: I get a call from my sister from the hospital 292 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: saying I'm in the hospital. With mom. She has calling 293 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: cancer stage four, stage four. I said, how do they 294 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: know it's stage four? You just got to the emergency room. 295 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: They had just tried to change her into a gown 296 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: and they could see all the tumors everywhere, all over 297 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: her body. 298 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: Loupe was dying and if Carmen wanted the truth, she 299 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,239 Speaker 2: was running out of time. That's when she got an 300 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 2: unexpected call from Marty. By this point, he was divorced 301 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 2: from Lupe and living in Rhode Island. 302 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: So when he called me, I was pretty shocked. I 303 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: automatically was like, something's wrong. I was like, what's going on? 304 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: Are you okay? And he said, I need you to 305 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: come visit me. He wouldn't tell me, but I knew 306 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: it was serious. 307 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: So she made the trip to see him. 308 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: And we're at the kitchen table and he says to me, 309 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Poppy's not your father. Every cell 310 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: in my body was just angry. I said, okay, who is? 311 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: And I knew what he was going to say, but 312 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to hear him say it, and he said 313 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: I am. I burst into tears, burning angry tears, could 314 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: not stop crying. 315 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: Marty had known all along. 316 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: So I'm thirty years old and I'm hearing for the 317 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: first time that my parents, the first people you're supposed 318 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: to trust in the world, the first people that you're 319 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: supposed to learn what trust is, lied to me. I 320 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: was so angry, especially since I had begged so hard 321 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: to be a part of this family. And then there 322 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: was this this whole idea of how Marty was not 323 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: allowed to financially support me. 324 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 2: Carmen had been explicitly told for decades that Marty wasn't 325 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 2: her dad, and because of that, Poppy Wong supported them financially. 326 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 2: The lie was like a wall that had been built 327 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: in her family, and Carmen was left on the outside. 328 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 1: My sisters didn't have to struggle so much. They were 329 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: taken care of financially, but I was left to flail. 330 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: What was that all about? So you're saying, now I'm yours, 331 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: but you didn't take care of me. You didn't you know? 332 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: I have no safety net? Where were you? 333 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: Carmen left Marty's house enraged and in shock. 334 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: When I got back to New York, my apartment was 335 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: decorated with this wonderful framed Chinese silk screen print that 336 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: had gotten in Chinatown. 337 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 2: It was in that moment that she asked herself a 338 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: bigger question, was I Chinese anymore? She felt like she 339 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 2: was being stripped of her identity as a Chinese Dominican woman. 340 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 2: It was an identity she loved and had proudly carried 341 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: for thirty years. 342 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: How do I feel authentic as a human being? Like 343 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: if your whole story is a lie, how do you 344 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: feel authentic as a person. 345 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: As angry as she was at Marty, she knew who 346 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 2: was actually behind this story. 347 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: I just saw in all of this the machinations of 348 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: my mother, who ruled the roost in the sense of 349 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: what gets told and what doesn't get told. 350 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 2: She needed to talk to her mom directly. 351 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: She had only been given months to live, and I 352 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: had to know if it was true. 353 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 2: So Carmen went to visit her mom in person. 354 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: I saw her and her emaciated frame and hugged her 355 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: and we cried. But I still was strident inside because 356 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: I knew that I was there to confront her about something. 357 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 2: It was a horrible position to be in, confronting her 358 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,959 Speaker 2: mother about a lie at the very end of her life. 359 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: What made me very, very sad was that this had 360 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: to come out right before she was dying. And what 361 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: made me triply sad was that she was going to 362 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: die without telling me. 363 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 2: This was Carmen's last chance to get the truth from 364 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 2: her mom. 365 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: And I told her what Marty told me. 366 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 2: At first, Lupey was defensive. 367 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: She did her typical Loupe thing, Wow, dare he tell 368 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: you something that did? That was mine? It was my secret, 369 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: it was my truth. And I reminded her, no, it 370 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: was mine. Okay, what happened? 371 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 2: And so lou Bay broke down and told Carmen the 372 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 2: full story. It started well before Alex and Carmen were born. 373 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: She explained that her marriage to Poppy was never a 374 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 2: love marriage. It was arranged by Lupey's father. 375 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: He married off my mother and her sister to essentially 376 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: Chinese gangsters for money. They had their paperwork and my 377 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: mother and her sister didn't, so my grandfather arranged their 378 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: marriages ages of like nineteen and eighteen. 379 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 2: Marrying Poppy Wong had been Lupe's pathway to American citizenship. 380 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 2: That's why she cared so much about assimilation, about Carmen 381 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 2: making it in this country. But Lupey was never in 382 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 2: love with Poppy. He was a means to an end, 383 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 2: and Marty, in his own way, was too. 384 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: She was like, I need to get us the best odds. 385 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: That's the reason why she married an Anglo American. 386 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 2: Marrying Marty might have been opportunistic, but Lupe had actually 387 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: loved him. She'd been seeing him on the side while 388 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: in her arranged marriage to Poppy, and even gotten pregnant 389 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 2: with Marty multiple times. She and Marty weren't going to 390 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 2: have children of their own while Lubay was still legally 391 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: married to another man. When Lupe found out she was 392 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 2: pregnant with Carmen. 393 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: Her story was she was in the car with her sister, 394 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: was driving, pulling up into the clinic and Poppy Wong 395 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: showed up. Poppy showed up and said, no, don't do it. 396 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 2: Poppy was certain this baby was his. Poppy val to 397 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 2: take care of the baby, to support her, and that 398 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: was enough for Lube. 399 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: She said that because Marty didn't want me, that he 400 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: had no right to me. But because Poppy wanted me, 401 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: I was his child, that was my father. He had 402 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: the right to me. And she was going to live 403 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: the rest of her life and go to her grave 404 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: with this truth of hers and sitting in my own 405 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: anger and pain. I also looked at her with nothing 406 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: but eyes of a skeptical detective. 407 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 2: Carmen felt like she finally had the full story. 408 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: The truth. It was my mother's truth. I tell you. 409 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 2: Lupe's deathbed confession was the last time Carmen talked to 410 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,479 Speaker 2: her mother about her origin story. 411 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: I never brought up that confrontation again. I knew I 412 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: guess what I needed to know, and I knew that 413 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: I probably wasn't gonna be able to find out anything else, 414 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: and so we just focused on keeping her comfortable until 415 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: she passed away. 416 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: After Lupa passed, Carmen began processing all this new information. 417 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: It meant that she and Alex were technically half siblings. 418 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 2: It was heartbreaking, but it only brought them closer. She 419 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 2: leaned and Alex to help her make a big decision 420 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: if she should tell Poppy, because all of these years, 421 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 2: Poppy believed both Alex and Carmen were his. 422 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: I called my brother and I mentioned Poppy, and I 423 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: was like, well, I gotta tell him, and I gottad 424 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: and he just said, in his very quiet way, because 425 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: he was always very quiet, please don't tell Poppy. Don't 426 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: tell Moppy. I said, why, because I was this big, 427 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: like the truth must be known. And he said to me, look, 428 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: Poppy doesn't have anybody. How much more did we need 429 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: him to feel alone? Would it have just been a punishment? 430 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 1: What would have done besides make me feel better? And 431 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: would it have made me feel better? 432 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 2: After all, Poppy had been there for her for her 433 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 2: entire childhood in ways Marty hadn't. 434 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: So she decided Poppy was the father I had. 435 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 2: She made a promise to Alex that she wouldn't tell Poppy. 436 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: I remained acting as Poppy's child, including taking care of 437 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: him as he grew increasingly sick, until he died. The 438 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: day Poppy passed away, I took care of his cremation 439 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: and everything, and I never said a word. 440 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 2: Life moved on. For Carmen, she'd been a magazine editor, 441 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 2: an advice columnist, and had hosted a national TV news show. 442 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: She had made it. Loupe would have been proud. 443 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: I was in New York. I now was, you know, 444 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: an editor at a national magazine and paying all my bills. 445 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: And I got married, divorce, had a wonderful daughter of 446 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: my own. My brother ended up in a house full 447 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: of girls, and I had my own, and one Christmas, 448 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: we decided to get genetic tests. 449 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: They saw the tests as a novel. Carmen, Alex, and 450 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 2: one sister all took the test. They wanted to know 451 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 2: more about their heritage. 452 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: And we found it to be this more kind of 453 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: like how fun, how cool, how crazy. 454 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: It had been over a decade since Loupe passed away. 455 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 2: Carmen already knew who her biological father was, so she 456 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: was prepared to see that she was half Italian from 457 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: Marty's side. 458 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: So I was expecting to see that very disappointingly, I 459 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: was not Chinese, but that I was going to be 460 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: full siblings with my sisters, and that I was somehow 461 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: half Italian. Well, the results come and I'm on my phone, 462 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm at the gym, and I had to sit down 463 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: because that's not what it said. 464 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 2: The first result to come in was the heritage portion. 465 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 2: It revealed she wasn't half Italian like Marty, she was 466 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 2: half Spanish. 467 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much your physical body reacts 468 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: to news. Breath knocked out of it. I had to sit, 469 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: head spinning, called my brother what the hell. 470 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 2: The familial DNA was still processing, so she couldn't see 471 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 2: the family trait, and he was like. 472 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: Well, you know Europe. You know Italy is close to 473 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: Spain and they're close to each other, and you ever 474 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: know my sister. I talked to her and she was 475 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: like the same thing, like don'torry about it, Like, well, 476 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: let's wait until my results come in. We all match up. 477 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: When the DNA came in, she and Alex's family got 478 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 2: on a FaceTime call to check the results together. 479 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: Let's check. Let's check the results. Nina says her tests 480 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: are in. Right, we click and we're all seeing the 481 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: same screen. And all you hear is us going on. 482 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: It says, I'm half siblings to all of them. 483 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: Neither Poppy nor Marty were Carmen's biological father. Her mother 484 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 2: had lied on her deathbed. The whole story she gave 485 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 2: Carmen was not true. She'd lied to Carmen, to Marty 486 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: and to Poppy. 487 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: I couldn't help but marvel at the life she led 488 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: to put me in that moment. 489 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 2: Her mother was gone, and she'd taken the full story 490 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: with her. Even when Carmen demanded the truth, her mother 491 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 2: hadn't given it to her. And now Carmen was nowhere 492 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 2: close to finding the real answer. The test told her 493 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 2: who her father wasn't, but it didn't reveal who her 494 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: biological father could be. 495 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: I didn't have anything beyond third and fourth cousins on 496 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: this genetic test, so that started my quest. Wow, I 497 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: had to find out who this guy was my father, 498 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: my real biological father. 499 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 2: Her brother Alex wasn't going to let Carmen go it alone, 500 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 2: so he became her right hand on this journey. 501 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,959 Speaker 1: He felt very much that it was his responsibility as 502 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: an older sibling, to make sure that I found this 503 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: other family. 504 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 2: They got to work their first up Miami to visit 505 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 2: their mother's lifelong best friend. 506 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: She was aging and ill, but he was like, you've 507 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: got to ask her. She may have answers. Nothing, So 508 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: I asked my godmother in the Dominican. Nothing. Everyone said. 509 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: Loupe was always quiet and protective. You know, she held 510 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: things very tightly. She didn't share much. We don't know. 511 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: I hired a genealogist, Steven no Look. 512 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 2: Carmen and Alex spent months researching and investigating to get answers, 513 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: but they kept coming up short. It was frustrating. A 514 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 2: few months into this process, I. 515 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: Got that dreaded phone call like I got about my mother, 516 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: this time for my sister in law about my brother. 517 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,959 Speaker 1: He had had a cough that was lingering and wouldn't 518 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: go away. He had stage four non smoking lung cancer. 519 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: It only furthered his resolve to help his sister. I 520 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: think as he got this diagnosis, he realized that I 521 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: would be very much alone. 522 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 2: He stayed committed to helping Carmen find answers right up 523 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: until the end. 524 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: And I said to him on those last few days, 525 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: as I was holding his hand in the hospital, I 526 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: was just like, man, you've got to go up there. 527 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: You've got to talk to mom. You gotta find the answers. 528 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, my brother passed away a year to the 529 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: day of his diagnosis. The biggest devastation in my life 530 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: is the loss of him. 531 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 2: In the wake of this loss, Carmen was left asking 532 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: herself so many questions. 533 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: I just wanted to get at the bottom of it, 534 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: and frankly, though it was very important for me to 535 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: find who my biological father was, more importantly in some 536 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: ways was figuring out why my mother kept the secret. 537 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: Why didn't she tell me? 538 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 2: She had so much pain, confusion and anger. At this point, 539 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 2: Carmen was thriving in her career as a professional writer, 540 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 2: so she decided to use her writing skills to process 541 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 2: these big questions, questions that might go unanswered forever. She 542 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 2: got a book deal at Penguin Random House. It would 543 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: be a memoir called why Didn't You Tell Me? 544 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: So I write the book. I hand in my first edits. 545 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: I hadn't checked my genetic sites in a while because 546 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,879 Speaker 1: I felt very just discouraged. I mean, there's only so much. 547 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: You can only wait until the right person takes a test, 548 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: and maybe that never would happen. I couldn't pin my 549 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: hopes on it anymore. Shortly after she turned in the 550 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: first draft of the book, I just hit refresh, and 551 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: it happened. The right person took the test. My niece, 552 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: my paternal niece, took the test right away. She sent 553 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: her a message, and I sent just a nice, kind 554 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: of basic note saying here's who I am, and I 555 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: understand if you don't want to know me, or you 556 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: don't know who I am, or I understand if you 557 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,919 Speaker 1: don't have anything to do with me. I just want 558 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: to know who he was. I got a response within hours. 559 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: I got an email from my real biological past sister 560 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: the next day. 561 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 2: And just like that, Carmen got the answer she'd been 562 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 2: waiting for who her biological father was, And to her surprise, 563 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 2: it was a man she'd never heard of. He was 564 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 2: from the Canary Islands, and this whole time, he'd been 565 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 2: much closer than she imagined. 566 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: He lived right up the street, right up the street 567 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: from when I was a kid in Manhattan. 568 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 2: She racked her brain for any memory of this man, 569 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,760 Speaker 2: but she didn't have one, so she asked her newfound 570 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 2: half sister if there was any way she could meet him. 571 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 2: That's when she. 572 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,399 Speaker 1: Learned, Unfortunately, my biological father passed away many years ago. 573 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: I cried as if my father died. That's what it 574 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: felt like in that moment, like I got the news 575 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: my father was dead, another father, a father I never knew, 576 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: but it still was my father died. 577 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: If she couldn't meet him, she wanted to find out 578 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 2: anything she could about his family. She learned her father 579 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 2: was one of eleven and the youngest. 580 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: Her name is Carmen. Even though my mother said that 581 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: I was named after my godmother, whose name is Carmen, 582 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: I highly suspect I was named after this youngest sibling. 583 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: My middle name is the same middle name as my stepfather, 584 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: Marty's sister, and my last name is Wong. My three 585 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: names are literally three names from the three different fathers. 586 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 2: At this point, Carmen didn't know if Lupe ever knew 587 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 2: who her father was, let alone if the biological father 588 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 2: ever knew. But then her half sister told her something interesting. 589 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: So my biological sister knew I existed. From the time 590 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: that she was in her twenties. 591 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 2: Carmen's biological father had known she was out there. That's 592 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 2: the most proof she'll ever get about what Lupe really knew. 593 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 2: It was the end of a roller coaster. Carmen's identity 594 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 2: had been shifting for nearly her entire adult life. 595 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: Every decade brought a new father along thirty finding out 596 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: that it wasn't Dad number two, forty, then it's Dad 597 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,959 Speaker 1: number three, then fifty. We know who he is now, 598 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:41,359 Speaker 1: and it was a wild revelation. Then I needed to 599 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: process and write about what this all meant to me, 600 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 1: to have these three fathers. 601 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 2: She called the editor of her book, the one she'd 602 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 2: just finished, and said, we're. 603 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: Going to need an epilogue. It wasn't the ending that 604 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: I thought I was going to get. But sometimes the 605 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: universe just gives you little gifts. 606 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 2: It's a unique position to have your fundamental identity shift 607 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 2: multiple times in your adult life. This is what she's 608 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 2: learned from that experience. 609 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: How your genes express themselves is only one part of 610 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: your identity. How you were raised and who were your 611 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,399 Speaker 1: parents is another part of your identity. I think what's 612 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: important is your self identity, the truth of your life. 613 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: So for example, now do I say I'm Dominican Chinese, 614 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: which I said all my life? No, what I say 615 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: is I was raised Dominican Chinese. I also can say 616 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: I'm Latina, but I'm a Wong, because that's what's important, 617 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: because that was my experience. I am a Wong, I 618 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: remain along, I always will be a waw. 619 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 2: Carmen believes Lupe had a reason for keeping the secret. 620 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 2: She thought back to moments in her childhood, like her 621 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 2: mom's mona Lisa smile when a nun said Carmen must 622 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 2: be smart because she was half Chinese. After all these years, 623 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 2: Carmen has come to an understanding about her mom's choices. 624 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,240 Speaker 1: When you are from a community, that's you know, looked 625 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: down on or seen as lesser than. Any mistake is 626 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: magnified greatly, greatly. Everything has to be perfect and clean, 627 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: and you know, my gosh, I mean, my socks were ironed, 628 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: and I wore a slip under my uniform, and you 629 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: know my hair was perfectly ironed. And everything has to 630 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: be perfect so no one can say a word against you. 631 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: It's about understanding, especially if it's a parent. When you 632 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: understand and you see them as a separate human being, 633 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: so much of the pain stops. 634 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 2: Now in her fifties, she's oriented at herself to who 635 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 2: she is and what family means to her. 636 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 1: Through all of this, I've learned to in many ways 637 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: redefine what family is. And for me, family is who 638 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: shows up, and that was my brother. He showed up 639 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 1: for me. I'm still a solo moon kind of floating around, 640 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: but I don't feel so untethered, and I'm hoping my 641 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: daughter has the gift of not feeling untethered and instead 642 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: feeling much more belonging than I had. 643 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 2: We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question, 644 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 2: why did you want to tell your story? 645 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: Breaking cycles? A big part of it isn't just telling 646 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: the truth. A big part of it is there's no 647 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: shame in my mother's story. All these things I should 648 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: be ashamed of my mother, you know, sleeping around and 649 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff. No, oh, this is life, 650 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: and the shame ends here with me. Because in shame 651 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: you only find isolation and pain, and it keeps us, 652 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: especially as women, very quiet. It's very oppressive. I was 653 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: not going to let that continue. And if my story 654 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: can help other people who feel shame about how they 655 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: came into this world because their parent, you know, their 656 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: mother had an affair, or they didn't tell them this, 657 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: or they didn't tell them that. If my story can 658 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: make them feel less shame, that is so powerful, because 659 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: then they will not cause pain to the people they 660 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: love around them. 661 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 2: On the next episode of Betrayal. 662 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,280 Speaker 4: She was the best option. She was the only option. 663 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 4: She was the only person I had to trust. I 664 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 4: said okay, and I signed it. 665 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 2: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal 666 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 2: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email 667 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 2: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod 668 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. We're grateful for your support. 669 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 3: One way to show support is by subscribing to our 670 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 3: show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and 671 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,839 Speaker 3: review Betrayal five star reviews go a long way, A 672 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 3: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is 673 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 3: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment 674 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 3: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive 675 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,800 Speaker 3: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced 676 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 3: by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard, 677 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 3: also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Melcuriy 678 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 3: and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and 679 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 3: Jessica Krintech. Audio editing and mixing by Matt. 680 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 2: Del Vecchio, additional editing support from Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme 681 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,800 Speaker 2: composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by Mob Music. 682 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 2: And For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, 683 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.