1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: On this episode of the News World. When modern medicine 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: issues recommendations based on good scientific studies, it shines. Conversely, 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 1: when modern medicine is interpreted through the harsh lens of 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: opinion and edict, it can mold beliefs that harm patience 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: and stunt research for decades. In his new book Blind Spots, 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: When Medicine Gets It Wrong and What It Means for 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: Our Health, Doctor Marty McCarey explores the latest research on 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: critical topics ranging from the microbiome to childbirth, to nutrition, longevity, 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: and more, revealing the biggest blind spots of modern medicine 10 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: and tackling the most urgent yet unsung issues in our 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: four point five trillion dollar health care system. Here to 12 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: discuss this new book, I am really pleased to welcome 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: my guests. Doctor Marty McCarry is a JOHNS. Hopkins Professor, 14 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: member of the National Academy of Medicine, author of two 15 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: New York Times best selling books on Accountable and The 16 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: Price We Pay. He has written for The Wall Street Journal, 17 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: The Washington Post, the New York Times, and published more 18 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: than two hundred and fifty scientific research articles. Marty, welcome 19 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me again on Newts World. 20 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: Good to see Edni, Thanks for having me. 21 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: You know what, when I look at your productivity, you 22 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: must really like working. 23 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: I do you know when you have a sense of purpose, 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: it's not a job and you know that better than anyone. 25 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: But still, two hundred and fifty scientific publications is a 26 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: remarkable achievement as well as best selling books. 27 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: It hit me after two hundred scientific publications that nobody's 28 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: reading them, but I get to summarize them in my presentations. 29 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: There you go. You know, when we last talked with another, 30 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: we discussed your last book, The Price We Pay, What 31 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 1: broke American Healthcare and how to fix It, which did 32 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: become a New York Times bestseller, and you really called 33 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: out the healthcare systems a whole and how it needs 34 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: to be overhauled. Before we get to your new book, 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: talk to us a couple minutes ago. What you were 36 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: trying to accomplish with the Price We Pay? 37 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: Well, really, we have a tremendous amount of waste in healthcare. 38 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: We have really a decision that we have to make 39 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 2: as a country. Are we going to increase spending on 40 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: healthcare throwing good money after bad into this broken system? 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: Or are we going to cut the waste? And so 42 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: the fundamental problem in healthcare is we have non competitive markets, 43 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: and you can either try to create rules around bad 44 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 2: behavior or you can enable them to be competitive with 45 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: price transparency and quality transparency. So thanks to President Trump, 46 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: that book was really converted into the executive order from 47 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 2: the White House require hospitals to post cash prices on 48 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 2: common shoppable services, and that is taking effect this year. 49 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: At third party companies are scraping that data and pretty 50 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: soon you'll be able to access it on an app. 51 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: We do a fair amount of work on transparency and 52 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: the country gets it. But the systems, of course, that 53 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: are supposed to be transparent, all do everything they can 54 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: to oppose it, which includes the hospitals, the pharmaceuticals, the 55 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical management systems, the insurance companies. Don't you find that 56 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: same experience that each of them has their own sense 57 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: of how they can game the system, and they're not 58 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: prickly excited about letting you know the details. 59 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: That's right, Like, this healthcare system is making a lot 60 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: of people rich or generating thousands of new millionaires every year, 61 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: and it's working for a lot of people who are 62 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: using the system to get wealthy, but when it comes 63 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: to actually making the population healthier, we have failed. For 64 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: fifty years, we have failed. When it comes to increasing 65 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: the efficiency of our system, we have failed. So everyone's 66 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: getting rich in healthcare except for one stakeholder that does 67 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: not have a big lobby in DC, and that is 68 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: the everyday American worker who pays for this giant mess 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: through their paycheck, deduction for health insurance, and their Medicare 70 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: excise tax, which all go up each year. 71 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: When I left the speakership, I decided I would focus 72 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: on national security and on healthcare as the two biggest 73 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: life threatening and economically powerful sectors of our economy. And 74 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: I was really surprised after about five years to realize 75 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: the huge elements of the health system are entirely self 76 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: serving and redefine the rules around their own pocketbook. I mean, 77 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: is that sort of part of what you've also encountered. 78 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: Yes, it's like you can make changes to healthcare as 79 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: long as you really don't affect these giant revenue streams 80 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: that are going to these giant corporate stakeholders. And then 81 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: we get a lot shiny objects thrown at us. Medicare 82 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: can now negotiate the prices of ten generic drugs. Well, 83 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: according to their own numbers, that's a six billion dollar 84 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: savings in a healthcare system that is four point five 85 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: trillion dollars expanding in the commercial market by eight percent 86 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: each year. That's a two hundred billion dollar expansion. You 87 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 2: saved six of those two hundred billion dollars. Congratulations. We 88 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: are not dealing with the root causes, what is causing 89 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 2: all of these chronic diseases, and we just get these 90 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: shiny objects thrown at us that may have merits of 91 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 2: their own, but they're in the periphery. They are not 92 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: the core issue. 93 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: In your new book, you're coming at those from sort 94 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: of the patient care standpoint and the notion that the 95 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: medical profession can have blind spots. You're practicing, you're in 96 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: a major institution. When did it suddenly hit you that 97 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: there were blind spots? 98 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: Well, it's always hit me because I took time out 99 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: of medical school to do a public health degree and 100 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: look at the macro We have actually created and ignited 101 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: health crises as a medical profession. But during COVID is 102 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: when I felt like I didn't want to write about COVID. 103 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: It was too tribal and people are sick of it. 104 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: But I wanted to write about this culture of our 105 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: medical establishment. They said opioids were not addictive for twenty 106 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 2: years the igniting the opioid epidemic. They said pen analogies 107 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: were caused by early peanut butter exposure. They got that 108 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: backwards for most of the last quarter century, igniting the 109 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 2: modern day pen analogy epidemic doesn't exist in Africa. The 110 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: overuse of antibiotics, the food pyramid misinformation, all of this 111 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: was propagated as we demonized natural saturated fats. We developed 112 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: these massive blind spots of our ultra processed foods, refined carbohydrates, pesticides, 113 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: seed oils, and we ignored all of these main drivers 114 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: of our chronic disease epidemic. As all of these chronic 115 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 2: diseases searched right in front of our eyes, what did 116 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: we do? We just doubled down on the old dog. 117 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: So I wanted people to know the truth. 118 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: Walk me through what we have been doing wrong and 119 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: why none of that applies. Say in Africa. 120 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: Well, in a prior generation, peanut analogies were rare and 121 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: most were mild. But then in the year two thousand 122 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: the American Academy of Pediatrics ignited the modern day peanutalgae 123 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: epidemic with a bad recommendation for all mothers to make 124 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: sure kids avoid peanut butter until they turned three, thinking 125 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: that peanut butter abstinence in the first few years of 126 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: life would prevent peanutalgaies later. But they got it perfectly backwards. 127 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: They did not incorporate the basic concept of immune tolerance 128 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: or the old dirt theory, which means when you expose 129 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: when you're around things as an nfigure, bodies more likely 130 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: to accept them later in life. And so as peanut 131 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: allergies skyrocketed with this bad recommendation from the American Academy 132 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: of Pediatrics, kids developed penatalergies, including severe peanutalergies just having 133 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: trouble breathing being near a peanut, without even touching a peanut, 134 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: and that meant more peanut abstinence. They got rid of 135 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: peanuts in schools and daycare centers and homes. They said, well, 136 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: you know what, we're going to make sure there's no 137 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: peanut butter in the home, and so it became this vicious, 138 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 2: perpetual cycle. Finally, the study got done eight years ago 139 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: that showed you want to introduce peanut butter early in 140 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: infancy and not avoid it, and that we had it 141 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: perfectly backwards. 142 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: I mean, aren't there a whole series of places where 143 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: what we're currently doing in the name of good sciences 144 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: in fact bad science. 145 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we see it all the time. Dogma. It is 146 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 2: the world of medical dogma. And sometimes it's rooted in 147 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: good intentions. But the most dangerous thing you can do 148 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: in all of science is to put something out there, 149 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 2: put a health recommendation out there in the public with 150 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: such absolutism as if it's backed by science, when it's not. 151 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: It's just an opinion or a haunch or a gut feeling. 152 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: There's a sociological component, and there's an economic component. So 153 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: the big powerful groups are making tons of money, they 154 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: have good reason for sustaining their approaches. But at the 155 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: same time there are also just cultural patterns and habits 156 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: and things that people have decided they collectively agree, and 157 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: they punish. So the one group punishes you for having 158 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: broken sort of the cultural group think. The other group 159 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: punishes you for threatening their income, and the two are 160 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: often mutually reinforcing. I mean, does that make any sense? 161 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 2: It does. And here's the thing. When we get something wrong, 162 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 2: when the group think in medicine, including with industry fanning 163 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: the flame, when we get something so wrong and then 164 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: we realize we get it wrong, you don't see a reckoning. 165 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 2: You don't see humility, You don't see an apology. You 166 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: don't see clarification to tell people the correct recommendation with 167 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: the same vigor by which the misinformation recommendation was put 168 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: out prior by the medical establishment. And as a result, 169 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 2: people lose trust to the medical establishment. You saw it 170 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 2: during COVID. I have not heard a single apology from 171 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 2: any public health official during the prolonged school shutdowns and 172 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: the masking of toddlers and not allowing people to visit 173 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: their dying loved ones in a hospital for two years, 174 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,239 Speaker 2: a cruel human rights violation, all of it, vaccine mandates, 175 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: all of it. You have not seen a single apology. 176 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: And I think that's why trust in doctors and hospitals 177 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: is way down. It's down from seventy one percent to 178 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: forty percent of the public in a recent study that 179 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 2: was just published in our top journal. That's a thirty 180 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: one point drop in trust in doctors and hospitals. People 181 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: are hungry for honesty. 182 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: I was very struck with the sort of rigidity which 183 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: started to say, with medical decisions, but then went over to, 184 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: for example, the social media. So if you tried to 185 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: say the wrong thing, you couldn't say it on Facebook 186 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: because it just literally would block you. I mean, it's 187 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: probably as much suppression of dissident thought as we've seen 188 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: American history. 189 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 2: And it's interesting, it's not new. It's a sneak peak 190 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: into how the broader medical establishment works, and it's I 191 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: think worse now than ever before. The censorship is so overt. 192 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: But when people started saying, hey, there's nothing wrong with 193 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 2: natural fat, it's refined carbohydrates and added sugar that's creating 194 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: this inflammation in these diseases, they were railroaded, sidelined, and 195 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: censored in their own day. The people who said no, 196 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: opioids are addictive, they were sidelined by the industry and 197 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: the medical establishment. And so what we learned from all 198 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 2: of these medical mishaps, some of which are still active 199 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: to this day, is that we need civil discourse more 200 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: than ever, and in medicine, the purpose of medicine and 201 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: science is to challenge deeply held assumptions, and that's what 202 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 2: we need to encourage not to censor. 203 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: Rome. We also faced with reality that many of the 204 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: supposedly professional groups and thinking for example about the American 205 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: Medical Association, has such a huge compelling interest in not 206 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: being in a fight with the government that if the 207 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: government doctors try to say at the Center for Disease 208 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: Control take a certain position, for the AMA to take 209 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: that position head on could potentially lose them an enormous 210 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: leverage that they currently have in making money off of 211 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: being able to cite the description of the diagnosis of 212 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: medicines which the government has granted them in effect as 213 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: a monopoly. So you have this mixing that's partly government, 214 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 1: partly large private corporations, and partly associations that you would 215 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: think would be oriented towards trying to find the truth, 216 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: but in fact they have significant leverage against them breaking 217 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: out yes. 218 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: And what some of us have learned is that in 219 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: addressing this government corruption, we discovered that many of our 220 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 2: health agencies, some of which are supposed to be regulatory agencies, 221 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 2: have created little foundations on the side where they accept 222 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 2: millions from the pharmaceutical industry. Same things happening in the 223 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 2: private sector, with the American Medical Association accepting millions from 224 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 2: industry and all of these organizations, and you wonder, how 225 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: do these stakeholders have such enormous capture of both government dodgors, 226 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 2: government agencies, government policy, and in the private sector with 227 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: our established medical organizations. I spoke at the annual Nutrition 228 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 2: Conference for the nation's nutritionists and dietitians, and I find 229 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: out after I gave my keynote that the milk lobby 230 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: was there nitpicking my speech when I was questioning, do 231 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: we really need three glasses of cow's milk a day 232 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 2: for every healthy adult? That's the current recommendation. And as 233 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: I challenge these deeply he assumptions, I find out they're 234 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: one of the two big sponsors of the Nutrition conference. 235 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: The other sponsor was Coca Cola. Now I'm not saying 236 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: they're bad companies, but should we really be having them 237 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: have such a heavy hand in academic medicine and in 238 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: our policy making. So we need people to stand up, 239 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: challenge these deeply helled assumptions in the field, take a 240 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: stand and talk about the big issues we're not talking about, 241 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: like the best way to lower drug prices in America, 242 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: is to stop taking drugs we don't need. 243 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: But how would you know that? 244 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: There's a pendulum where you see it. For example, with childbirth, 245 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 2: there's the over medicalization of childbirth, and then people swing 246 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: the other way to say, well, I'm just going to 247 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: deliver my baby in the woods with no one around me. 248 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: That's dangerous too. So there's a balance, right, And with medicine, 249 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: a bunch of us, now casey means myself, Peter or Tier, 250 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: we're going directly to the public to try to educate 251 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: people about what the best tests are to look for 252 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: your heart disease risk, what foods you should be eating, 253 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 2: which drugs are commonly overused, and all of these decisions 254 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: are really should be made with a physician. But the 255 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: more antidepressants we prescribe, the more depression there is, the 256 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: more ADHD meds we prescribe, the more ADHD there is, 257 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 2: The more pain meds we prescribe, the more pain there is. 258 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: Diabetes medas, more diabetes, obesity meds, more diabetes. What is 259 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: going on? It's not that the meds have a cause 260 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: effect in inducing these diseases. It's that we're missing the boat. 261 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: In some cases, we're engaging the medicalization of ordinary life. 262 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: But we're not dealing with the root issues. Was a 263 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 2: child really made to have their circadian rhythm destroyed by 264 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 2: waking up at some early hour, not because it's good 265 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 2: for their health, but because it's convenient for adults. Put 266 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 2: them in a classroom. After a dogma that breakfast is 267 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: the most important meal of the day, we load them 268 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: with these sugary cereals. Turns out that's not a medical 269 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: principle that breakfast the most important meal to day. It 270 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: is an advertising campaign from Kellogg's in the nineteen fifties 271 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: that's taken on its own folklore legend status. And then 272 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 2: we give them a food coma after launch, and we 273 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: tell them to sit sedentary at a desk, and if 274 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: they can't do it, we medicate them. We have a 275 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: diagnosis and we medicate them. We've got to deal with 276 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: these root causes and not just medicate and play whack 277 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: a mole. That's why healthcare is so expensive. We are 278 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 2: not addressing these root causes, these issues that have been 279 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: in our blind spots. 280 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: One of my favorite recent podcasts was on Fat Bear Week. 281 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I love the natural world. Well, if you 282 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: go out and you look in the natural world. It 283 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: turns out that from an evolutionary basis, we're really remarkably tough. 284 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 1: We've survived a long time now as a species, and 285 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: we are pretty resilient, and a lot of the time 286 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: if you just let us alone, we gradually come back 287 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: to being in pretty good shape. And if you suppress 288 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: different things, that has all sorts of second and third 289 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: order implications. That then becomes sort of a downward spiral. 290 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: So when you take the first three drugs, then you 291 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: have to take the next three drugs because the first 292 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: three had side effects, and then you have to take 293 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: the next three drugs, and so you become sort of 294 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: a country that wanders around on pills when a lot 295 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: of the time, you know, it's fine, You're okay. 296 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're saying something so important here, And I'd love 297 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 2: being a doctor. I prescribe medications. I need patients to 298 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: be compared and take them. I've seen antibiotics safe lives, 299 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: but they're also massively overused. Antibiotics in particular, sixty percent 300 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 2: of them are unnecessary. According to this big study. We've 301 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 2: created this consumerist culture, and what's happening is we're altering 302 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 2: the gut microbiome of a generation of people. These antibiotics 303 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 2: carpet bomb the microbiome. So we're not talking about a 304 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: lot of these big issues that we need to be 305 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 2: talking about. And part of it is sometimes this sort 306 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 2: of churning when we're so busy billing and prescribing, so 307 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: busy seeing patients and operating, we're on the treadmill as 308 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 2: doctors in this healthcare system. We don't stop and ask 309 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 2: what is going on? The public is getting sicker, and 310 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 2: we have now the sickest population in the history of 311 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 2: the world and the most medicated all of these diseases. 312 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 2: I'm a pancreatic cancer surgeon. I deal with all kinds 313 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 2: of pancreatic diseases. At Johns Hopkins. No one has stopped 314 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: and asked, hey, why have pancreatic cancer cases doubled in 315 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 2: the last two decades, Like, no one's working on that. 316 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 2: These are the root issues. We've got to stop. 317 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: What's your guess? 318 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 2: I think it's because of all the things. Well, first 319 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,959 Speaker 2: of all, the trend is the cancers that line the 320 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 2: GI tractor, the ones on the rise, liver cancer, colon cancer, 321 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: rectal cancer, gullbladder, biliary cancer, pancreas cancer. So what tell 322 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: us It tells us it's the interface between what we're ingesting, 323 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 2: what we're eating, and the proximity of these tumors. So 324 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: I think it tells us. It suggests that it's what 325 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 2: we're putting down our system. You know, there was a 326 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 2: study that found a bacteria was identified in fifty percent 327 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 2: of colon cancers and young people. The bacteria normally lives 328 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 2: in the mouth, not in the colon. So what's happening 329 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 2: is with the microbiome. The millions of different bacteria that 330 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 2: normally live in a balance have translocated. We've altered it. 331 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 2: We mess it up with millions of things in the 332 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: modern world, namely our poison food supply. If these pesticides 333 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 2: kill insects, what do you think they're doing to the 334 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: lining of our the eye tract that's lined with millions 335 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 2: of different healthy bacteria. 336 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: How much of the resistance to an open pursuit of 337 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: scientific information and scientific data is cultural and how much 338 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: of its economic. 339 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 2: We saw during COVID how much of it is cultural? 340 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: Within the medical field, this blind allegiance to the idea 341 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: that there's no such thing as natural immunity to COVID. 342 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 2: You saw like a third of doctors clinging to that 343 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 2: almost like some bladened political allegiance. Oh, actually, it probably 344 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 2: was a blind political allegiance, and you saw this sort 345 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 2: of very damaging group. Think. It's different in different situations. 346 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: One of things I thought was truly fascinating in your 347 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: work was when you deal with hormone replacement therapy for 348 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: women in menopause, and it turned out the initial studies 349 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: that got us to back off of it was that 350 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: we thought it caused breast cancer. Later on turned out 351 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: that wasn't true. But then there are positive side effects that, 352 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: apparently in terms of Alzheimer's and fractures and heart disease, 353 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: are actually positive. Can you just want to walk us 354 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: through what's the current state of play in terms of 355 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,719 Speaker 1: hormone replacement therapy and how should women think about it. 356 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 2: There is so much misinformation around hormone replacement therapy because 357 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: a doctor at the NIH twenty two years ago announced 358 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 2: that it causes breast cancer. We're talking about if you 359 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: take estrogen once your body is not producing it, or 360 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 2: estrogen plus progesterone, what we call hormone replacement therapy, when 361 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 2: your body begins perimenopause, typically between the ages of forty 362 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 2: five and fifty seven. Somewhere in that ballpark, a woman 363 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: will start to have those hormonal changes well, replacing estrogen. 364 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 2: That is, the hormone replacement therapy not only alleviates the 365 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: symptoms of metopause the hot flashes, night sweats, mood swings, 366 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 2: weight gain, and fifty plus other different symptoms that can occur, 367 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 2: but it also has these long term health benefits that 368 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: you touched on, and that is, women live three and 369 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 2: a half years longer. The rate of heart attacks is 370 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 2: cut in half, the risk of Alzheimer's goes down by 371 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 2: thirty five percent, their bones are stronger, cognitive decline is 372 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: fifty to sixty percent decreased. These are tremendous long term 373 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 2: health benefits, but tragically, many women are never offered it 374 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 2: because most doctors today still believe the dogma from that 375 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 2: original announcement where a guy said, I just did a 376 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 2: study and found that it causes breast cancer. Turns out 377 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: that study was released two weeks later and in the 378 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 2: data it did not increase the risk of breast cancer. 379 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: The media ran with the headlines in those two weeks 380 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: and had convinced the public and doctors alike. We're still 381 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 2: digging out, and it's because that doctor created a tremendous 382 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: amount of fear around hormone therapy around one of the 383 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: most sensitive issues for women, and that is the risk 384 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: of getting breast cancer. 385 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: Are there any medical schools that have sort of gotten 386 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: this message and are trying to reshape how they teach medicine. 387 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: The problem with medical school new is that every medical 388 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 2: school curricula and big exams are controlled by one private 389 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 2: company called the Double AMC. And so it's not like college, 390 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: where colleges can innovate and try new models and teach 391 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 2: what they think is important and adapt to the times. 392 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 2: There's some crusty board over there at the Double AMC 393 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 2: that's deciding that every kid needs to memorize the names 394 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 2: of the molecules in the CREB cycle. You don't need 395 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 2: to be memorized and regurgitate that five different times in 396 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 2: your education need to understand it. But we've created this memorized, 397 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: regurgitate culture and they come out memorizing all these medications 398 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: with a reflex prescribed and we've lost a sense of compassion, 399 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 2: holistic care, the appropriateness of medicine and so it's a 400 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 2: terrible system. And that's why nutrition has gotten no time 401 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 2: in medical schools, and we don't talk about end of 402 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: life and other important listing skills and non technical skills. 403 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: These are the issues we need to be talking about. 404 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: I think we spent two minutes on menopause and medical school. 405 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: A woman today is more likely to be prescribed an 406 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 2: antidepressant for menopause than they are basic hormone replacement. 407 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: When you think about it, you have really sort of 408 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: obsolete medical schools training people to be obsolete, so they 409 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: then go out to work with people already out there 410 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: who are obsolete, who reinforce the correctness of being obsolete. 411 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you're climbing a really big mountain. 412 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 2: Well, there's a bunch of us. It's Casey means, Peter Ta, 413 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: and I persaw many of us now in the medical profession, 414 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: Mark HIMT. We're getting off the hamster wheel and we're 415 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: talking about how do we tell the truth about health, 416 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 2: how do we cut through the misinformation, how do we 417 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 2: address these big issues that have been in our blind spots, 418 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 2: and how do we stop focusing on sickness and start 419 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 2: focusing on health. So I think there's a tribe. Now 420 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 2: there's a group of us now that are pushing hard. 421 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 2: And what we find is that doctors are hungry for 422 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 2: this because we've done a terrible thing to doctors in 423 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: this country. We've told them, put your head down, focus 424 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 2: on billing and coding. We're going to measure you by 425 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 2: your throughput. And we haven't given doctors the time or 426 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 2: resources to address these root causes. And they see all 427 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: these chronic diseases skyrocket. I mean, autisms now one in 428 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 2: twenty two kids born in California. Half of our nation's 429 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 2: children are obese, are overweight, to have pre diabetes. We've 430 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 2: got autoimmune diseases are surging. They now affect one in 431 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: five women. Doctors see that we are missing. I'm seeing 432 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: the mark. And why do you think doctor burnout rates 433 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: are now at thirty five percent and we have the 434 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 2: highest suicide rate in the country. We need to change 435 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 2: this system, get off the hamster wheel and finally talk 436 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 2: about health, not just sickness. 437 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: Can I ask you about one thing which I candidly 438 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: don't know much about, and that is tell me a 439 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: little bit about golp one drugs. 440 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the ozebic medications GOLP one's are ideal 441 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 2: for somebody who needs help transitioning to better foods, a 442 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 2: healthier lifestyle, and more activity. When people go on glp ones, 443 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: it's important that they get their protein with a high 444 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: protein diet, that they're active or they're going to be 445 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 2: on it for life. And you don't want to be 446 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 2: on these medications for life and tragically because it's the 447 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 2: easy button. I think a lot of people see their 448 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 2: health as their figure and not as their physiology. We're 449 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 2: seeing people now with accelerated frailty, reduced muscle mass, nutritional deficiencies, 450 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 2: so as they're thin, they perceive that they are healthy. 451 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: It's important to get your protein, and it's important to 452 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: stay active. They may be a miracle in the short term, 453 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 2: that is what we see as people lose a tremendous 454 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 2: amount of weight and we see some of these short 455 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: term health benefits go away. But they are also reducing 456 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 2: muscle mass. They're not just reducing your excess body fat, 457 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 2: they're reducing muscle mass, and that could be dangerous because 458 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 2: the number one predictor of how long you live is 459 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: how much muscle mass one has, and so are we 460 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: advancing frailty are we accelerating aging Are we shortening lifespan 461 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 2: in the long term by reducing one's muscle mass. That 462 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 2: verdict is still out. We don't know the answer. 463 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: Let me ask you one last sort of gigantic question. 464 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: If you're an average, relatively healthy American, but you want 465 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: to maintain that balance, you want to know what you 466 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: should be doing. What is it you need to know, 467 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: and what is it you should focus on to be 468 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: able to optimize your health and minimize the need for intervention. 469 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: So a couple highlights from the book. People should eat 470 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: whole foods, things that grow out of good soil, Avoid 471 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 2: seed oils, avoid ultra processed foods, try to eat organic. 472 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 2: Anytime you're eating something where you're actually consuming the surface 473 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 2: of that fruit or vegetable. The average strawberry has been 474 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 2: sprayed over a dozen times. You don't want that in 475 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 2: your microbiome. And then when you go to your doctor, 476 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 2: try to make sure that you get at some point 477 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 2: a blood test called a lipoprotein A and an APO B. 478 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 2: These are the best predictors of early heart disease. They're 479 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 2: much more predictive than HDL and LDL, and it's something 480 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 2: that can help a doctor be more precise in prescribing 481 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 2: how to prevent heart disease, more aggressively in some people 482 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 2: than others. 483 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: But we're beginning to see a movement, particularly now the 484 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: you live an age of social media, where people can 485 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: talk to each other and communicate with each other, could 486 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: acquire a critical mass. 487 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: That's right, you know. It's like in your world of politics, 488 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: there was the corporate media. You had a couple giant 489 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 2: corporations that controlled what everybody would hear. Now you've got 490 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 2: independent people, and you've got podcasts and people can read 491 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: independent journalists well. Same thing in medicine. It used to 492 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: be that a small group of people at the top 493 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 2: were the priesthood and controlled all the recommendations, and they 494 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: would put out the food pyramid and they would silence 495 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: the dissent. Now you've got podcasts and books. We've also 496 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: got this tremendous new enthusiasm to finally address chronic diseases 497 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: in children in America, something that should be nonpartisan, addressing 498 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: our poison food supply, and so there are plans. I 499 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: don't know if it's finalized yet. I think by the 500 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: time this airs it will be. But next week RFK 501 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 2: Junior President Trump, Tulsa Gabbard, myself and three other doctors 502 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 2: will be doing at town hall virtually and people can 503 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 2: hear about these issues and hear about this new enthusias 504 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: as in this new interest to finally address the chronic 505 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: disease epidemic affecting our nation's children, causing tremendous suffering. Half 506 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 2: of our nation's children are sick. We can't just keep medicating. 507 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 2: We've got to talk about our food supply. 508 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: I have to ask you one question that I'm a 509 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: little timid about asking. When I was Speaker, we balance 510 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: the budget for the only four times in your lifetime. 511 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: But in the process of that, we were convinced that 512 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: the work NIH does is so extraordinarily important that we 513 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: actually doubled the NIH budget while we were cutting lots 514 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: of other things. Now, look, and I wonder to what 515 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: degree it has become so bureaucratic that it actually inhibits 516 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: real breakthroughs because it overfunds marginal small grants. And the 517 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: politics that are normal with human beings has unfortunately also 518 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: infected NIH, and it showed up a lot of the 519 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: COVID case. One balance, is NIH a useful thing or 520 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: is it a diversion. 521 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 2: We need fresh leadership there what you have seen where 522 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 2: the NIH has spent their money, and it's not on food, 523 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 2: as medicine and the general root causes of many of 524 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 2: our chronic diseases. It's on some old legacy ideas of 525 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: an old guard medical establishment trying to figure out chemical 526 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 2: pathways so we can give more drugs. There's a role 527 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 2: for that, but we've got to have a balanced approach. 528 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 2: And we got a little peak in twenty twenty where 529 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 2: the NIH was spending their money. It wasn't on studying 530 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 2: school lunch programs. It was on studying bat coronaviruses in China, 531 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 2: retrieved from caves two hundred miles away. What are we doing? 532 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: What are we spending our money on? There's so much waste. 533 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: We could be directing that money to good causes, to 534 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: good research on root causes, and that's what they're supposed 535 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 2: to be doing. There's a lot of important stuff out 536 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 2: there that needs to be funded. I think we need fresh, 537 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 2: new leadership. They have one microbiome unit. I talked to 538 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,479 Speaker 2: the person running it. Gut health is central to all health. 539 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 2: That should be a bigger part and these indirects are 540 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: you familiar with the indirects that the NIH gives out, 541 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 2: So they give a grant to a university like my university, 542 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 2: Johns Hopkins. Let's say I win a three million dollar 543 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: grant for my research team. I get the three million 544 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 2: dollars for the research, but then the dean gets a 545 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 2: two million dollar gift for a slush fund to use 546 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 2: for any indirect expenses potentially related to the research. Well, 547 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 2: that's what's funding all the DEI do we need five 548 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: deans of diversity in our medical school as we have had? 549 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: Can we get by on one? I mean, this is 550 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 2: where NIH dollars are going. They should be going to science. 551 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: It should be kept but pretty dramatically overhauled. 552 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: It's supposed to compliment what the pharma industry is not funding. 553 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: That's helpful, Marty. I want to thank you for joining 554 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: me again. I can't wait for whatever book you're going 555 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: to do next so we can have another great conversation. 556 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: But your new book, Blind Spots When Medicine gets it 557 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: wrong and what it means for our health is available 558 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: now in Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. We're going to 559 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: feature a link to buy it from our show page. 560 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: I think it's a critically important book, and I want 561 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: to encourage you to continue to link out and find 562 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: more and more people, and maybe at some point down 563 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: the road we could do some interesting things about putting together, 564 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: whether in the my newsletter or some articles that there 565 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: is a growing movement that actually wants to understand health 566 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: as health and not health as drugs. 567 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 2: That's right. The H and NIH stands for health and 568 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 2: the and FDA stands for food. 569 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: Right. So I appreciate very much your being with me. 570 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 2: Thanks new really good to see again. 571 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest doctor Marty McCarey. You can 572 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: get a link to buy his new book Blind Spots 573 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: on our show page at Newtsworld dot com. News World 574 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: is produced by Youngers three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive 575 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: producer is Guernsey Slow. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 576 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special 577 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Gingrich three sixty. If you've 578 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast 579 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us 580 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about. 581 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld. Consign up for my three 582 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: free weekly columns at gingrastree sixty dot com slash newsletter. 583 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.