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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, trust me, Trust me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 1: I've never lived.

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Speaker 3: To you, I never a live.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that one person has all the answers?

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Speaker 2: Don't welcome to trust Me? The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two Greeks who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 2: I'm l lablanc I am actually half Greek, I can

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Speaker 2: say that.

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Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth. I am not Greek at all.

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Speaker 2: Alrighty, And today our guest is Madison McGee, former member

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Speaker 2: of a sorority and host of the podcast Ice Cold Case. Today,

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Speaker 2: Madison is going to tell us about how she always

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Speaker 2: dreamed of joining a sorority, how she decided which one

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Speaker 2: she was going to join after growing up Christian and

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Speaker 2: wanting to be a past and what the process of

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Speaker 2: joining was like.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about how she was the only black woman

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Speaker 1: in the sorority and was punished for not straightening her

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Speaker 1: curly hair, how she was prevented from holding a leadership

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Speaker 1: position and ostracized to the point where her her mental health,

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Speaker 1: and why it's so tricky to create a healthy group

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Speaker 1: culture in Greek life.

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Speaker 2: Plus, she has a podcast called Ice Cold Case where

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Speaker 2: she tries to solve the unsolved murder of her father.

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Speaker 1: It's so good, everybody listen.

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Speaker 2: Just quick disclaimer here, you guys. We are not saying

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Speaker 2: sororities are all cults. That's not a thing. We just

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Speaker 2: wanted to get some perspective on how the social dynamics

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Speaker 2: can go awry in a very common and beloved group setting.

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Speaker 2: This is, you know, her individual experience. We're not saying

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Speaker 2: any broad thing about sororities or fraternities as a whole, right.

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Speaker 1: Megan, completely, It's kind of like the CrossFit episode, you know,

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Speaker 1: like some people are in when some people aren't. An

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Speaker 1: individual experience exactly.

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Speaker 2: So that's that's before we dive in to her story. Megan,

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Speaker 2: what is your culty think of this week?

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Speaker 1: So Leslie van Houghton from The Manson Killings is going

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Speaker 1: to be released from prison.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe that that's happening. She was denied parole

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Speaker 2: for so many years. We've talked about it a bit

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Speaker 2: on here. I mean, I am very curious to see

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Speaker 2: what the decision making process was like. But she did

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Speaker 2: commit it very young, very on drugs, and very brainwashed.

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Speaker 1: Yep, she was nineteen years old. She's now seventy three.

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Speaker 1: So a big part of her being released is just

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Speaker 1: introducing her to the modern world. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: her lawyer is saying that she's going to have to

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Speaker 1: learn how to use a debit card and just do

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Speaker 1: modern things that she's never really done before. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, God, I wonder. I wonder if she'll do any interviews.

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Speaker 2: I'm so curious to hear her perspective on life.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: Imagine being in jail for that amount of time for

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Speaker 2: something so crazy.

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Speaker 1: I think the fear is that the others will now

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Speaker 1: possibly be released as well.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so, though, because some of the others

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Speaker 2: were like more involved and more egregious in their beliefs

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Speaker 2: and more like over the top and violent. And I

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Speaker 2: hope so yeah, from my understanding, but I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'll have to read up on it and make sure

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Speaker 2: I'm remembering things correctly. Don't want to say anything in correct,

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Speaker 2: but there were definitely members who were like full on,

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Speaker 2: like fully still down from Manson like years later. I

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Speaker 2: do not think that was the case for her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds like she said she was on a lot

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Speaker 1: of acid.

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Speaker 2: Well TV see, I guess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: What about you?

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Speaker 1: What's the cultiest thing that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 2: This Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg fight situation, do you

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about?

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Speaker 1: Of course?

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Speaker 2: I mean I can't. I just like it feels like

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Speaker 2: we are in a fake timeline. This is a cartoon

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Speaker 2: of what would be happening in history at the in

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Speaker 2: the age of social media. The fucking two heads of

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Speaker 2: the biggest social media companies in the world are so

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Speaker 2: toxically masculine, yeah, and so obsessed with their own like

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Speaker 2: cults of themselves, cults of personality, that they are literally

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Speaker 2: going to physically fight each What is happening? I just

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Speaker 2: get it's so funny to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But do I.

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Speaker 2: Want to watch it? One hundred percent? I want to

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Speaker 2: watch it, of course, I want to watch it.

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Speaker 1: Who do you think will win?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk is out of shape, but he is bigger.

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Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg at least has been training in jiu jitsu

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Speaker 2: for some time. I do really like to watch UFC

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Speaker 2: with Jack, so these are discussions that we've been having.

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Speaker 1: Who does Jack think is going to win? I guess

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Speaker 1: is the better question.

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Speaker 2: I think it depends on how much Elon Musk has

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Speaker 2: actually been training and how much he's actually going to

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Speaker 2: get in shape, because like, he does have the size advantage,

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Speaker 2: but Mark Zuckerberg has the skill advantage. I can't believe

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Speaker 2: I'm even saying this.

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Speaker 1: Listen, what world do we live in? Welcome to our

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Speaker 1: quantum leap into Hell.

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Speaker 2: It's so stupid, just like, be your fucking nerd selves,

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Speaker 2: and why why do you have to air any of

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Speaker 2: this out in public to the extent of actually physically fighting?

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Speaker 2: It is the craziest shit I've ever heard anyway, That's all.

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, I'm fascinated with the cults of both

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Speaker 2: their personalities. We all know I fucking hate Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: and think that he should go up into space. But

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Speaker 2: so I'm I'm rooting for a remark, I'm rooting for.

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Speaker 1: Zuck That means a lot to root for, remark Zuckerberg.

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Speaker 1: That truly is like I never thought i'd hear a

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Speaker 1: person say I'm gonna I'm gonna be on musks team

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Speaker 1: on the song.

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Speaker 2: But I know, but the trash You're gonna be on

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Speaker 2: the trash fire that Twitter has become.

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Speaker 1: Also, he just tweeted retweeted my friends video and didn't

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Speaker 1: tag her in.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like the worst thing Elon Musk has done

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Speaker 2: so far. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: I mean, really, let's get into the episode.

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Speaker 1: You hear that sound, It's the sound of a sale

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Speaker 1: you're missing out on because you're not selling on Shopify.

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Speaker 2: And what does it sound like with Shopify?

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Speaker 1: Ah?

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Speaker 2: Much better.

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Speaker 1: Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide.

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Speaker 2: They put you in control of every sales channel. So

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Speaker 2: whether you're selling woven bags from Shopify's in person POS

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Speaker 2: one e commerce platform, you are covered.

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Speaker 1: What I love about Shopify is no matter how big

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Speaker 1: you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need

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Speaker 1: to take control of your business and take it to

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Speaker 1: the next level.

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Speaker 2: Shopify has the internet's best converting checkout and their award

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Speaker 2: winning help is there to support your success every step

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Speaker 2: of the way.

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Speaker 1: This is possibility powered by Shopify.

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Speaker 2: Sign up for a one dollar per month trial period

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Speaker 2: at shopify dot com slash trust me all lowercase.

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Speaker 1: Go to shopify dot com slash trust me to take

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Speaker 1: your business to the next level.

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Speaker 2: Today Shopify dot com slash trust Me. Welcome to trust Me,

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Speaker 2: Madison McGee. Thank you for being here in the studio.

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Speaker 3: With us today. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you today about your

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Speaker 2: experience in a sorority? Are we naming the sorority?

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Speaker 3: Are we naming the I mean Google exists. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: went to college to Charleston and I was in Delta Gamma.

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Speaker 1: How does that song go?

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Speaker 3: I think I'm a lot. It's like a recruitment song. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I want to be a DG. Yes, so yes, so yes,

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Speaker 3: I do. I want to be a d I'm wear

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Speaker 3: the browns of pink of drop your ancor come and

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Speaker 3: be part of our sorority. We love DG. So will

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Speaker 3: you if you drop your ankor too? Ingrained in my brain, it's.

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Speaker 2: Honestly pretty catchy. Singing out for the rest of the day.

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Speaker 2: When did you decide you wanted to be in a sorority?

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Speaker 3: Long before I went to college. I think that's like

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Speaker 3: true for most people. I would say, you're like thinking

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Speaker 3: about it at least. So I probably was like young,

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Speaker 3: watching movies and just thinking like I can't wait to

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Speaker 3: go to college so that I can be part of

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Speaker 3: a sorority and like do that whatever that is.

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Speaker 1: Did you have a lineage in one? Like was your

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Speaker 1: mom in one? Or your grandma?

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Speaker 3: No? I was not a legacy. Okay, that's what it's called.

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Speaker 3: I was not And that comes with a slew of

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Speaker 3: options but also issues because it's easy when you know

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Speaker 3: what you want to be and where you want to

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Speaker 3: go and where you're going to fall, but when you

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Speaker 3: have to choose, it's a little more difficult.

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Speaker 2: I don't know anything about sorority culture. We did do

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Speaker 2: one episode generally on fraternities and sororities, but like it's

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Speaker 2: under some reason, it just never entered my psyche or

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Speaker 2: the zeitgeist of my life.

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Speaker 1: What was your I was not allowed?

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Speaker 2: Oh you weren't allowed? Did you want to be in one?

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Speaker 1: So that's the thing like growing up if you're not

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Speaker 1: I wasn't watching the movies that or the TV shows

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Speaker 1: that had anything like that in it, so it wasn't

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Speaker 1: really familiar to me. And then it was just something

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Speaker 1: that like my friends weird moms were obsessed with, do

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like they were always just

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Speaker 1: talking about their sorority and my friends with those moms

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Speaker 1: and they're not weird. They were just enjoying their college years.

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Speaker 1: But to me it seemed weird that they were thirty

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Speaker 1: seven and still thinking about college, right, which is very

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Speaker 1: funny now, But yeah, I didn't even think about it.

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Speaker 2: So for you, was it like what was appealing? Was

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Speaker 2: it like just the friendships, like the parties, like what

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Speaker 2: seemed exciting?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my school was unique, So I'm definitely speaking from

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Speaker 3: like a personal experience here because my school was a

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Speaker 3: little bit smaller. We were in the South, but we

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Speaker 3: weren't like a big SEC school, So the parties weren't

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Speaker 3: really the appeal. It was more like kind of how

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Speaker 3: they frame it, which is purposeful of like sisterhood, friends, community,

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Speaker 3: all of the things you hear like insert any cult

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Speaker 3: here and if all the rules still apply, right, So

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Speaker 3: it was this idea of like, well, we're not like

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Speaker 3: the sororities you hear about. We do philanthropy and we

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Speaker 3: give back and every sorority has their own already associated

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Speaker 3: with it, and you're raising money doing events and you

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Speaker 3: have parties. Sure, but for me, it was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you get all of these other things. You have to

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Speaker 3: keep a certain GPA so they're smart. You know, all

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Speaker 3: the stereotypes of like storty girls being dumb, Well that

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Speaker 3: can't be true because you have to have a certain

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Speaker 3: GPA to be involved. And so all of these things

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Speaker 3: seemed really appealing mm hmm and made you want to

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Speaker 3: be part of it even more.

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Speaker 2: Facing they sound really appealing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would just I want to add like

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be in a sorority. I just wasn't

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Speaker 1: allowed to be. It looked so fun, like living in

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Speaker 1: a house full of girls. That's my dream. You just

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Speaker 1: write like giggle and watch movies.

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Speaker 3: And it's good, right. I mean, it's the same as

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Speaker 3: like organized religion, Like a lot of the morals of religion,

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Speaker 3: be a good person, don't lie, don't kill people. It

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Speaker 3: sounds like, oh, why would this be wrong?

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Speaker 2: And have a community yeah that supports each other.

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Speaker 3: And when you dive deeper into anything that requires such

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Speaker 3: a strict set of rules, I think can go south

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Speaker 3: very quickly.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly why everyone's personal experience is so different. Some

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Speaker 1: people aren't in a cult, some people are in.

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Speaker 3: The same in the same, the same group. Ye, so

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Speaker 3: how did you.

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Speaker 2: Decide on that one? In particular, very funny story the

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Speaker 2: song the song No.

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Speaker 3: So I did what's called informal recruitment. So I transferred

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Speaker 3: into my school halfway through my freshman year. So I

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Speaker 3: came in this like spring semester. But I met a

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Speaker 3: girl before I went to school who was in Delta

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Speaker 3: Gamma at WVU, and she was super cool and really

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Speaker 3: fun and I really liked her and we're still friends.

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Speaker 3: And I just remember being like, oh, you're a DG.

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Speaker 3: I have to be a DG two. And so even

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Speaker 3: before I went to my school, I emailed the president

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Speaker 3: of Delta Gamma and I was like, I'm coming and

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Speaker 3: I want to be in DG. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: rush any other sorority, Like I know that I want

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Speaker 3: to be a Delta Gamma. Madison knows what she wants

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Speaker 3: and goes up and I get what I want. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And that's really how it works, So informal recruitment is

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Speaker 3: a little like less stressful than what you see in

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Speaker 3: like the movies and the TikTok. So formal recruitment happens

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Speaker 3: in the fall, and I participated on the other side,

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Speaker 3: like as a member of the sorority twice. But informal

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Speaker 3: recruitment is a little bit better because they're sort of

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Speaker 3: just like filling gaps. So they're like, oh, we only

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Speaker 3: got like one hundred members in the fall, and we really,

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Speaker 3: in order to like make enough money, should have invited

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Speaker 3: one hundred and six. So, like every sorority will be different.

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Speaker 3: Some sororities don't do informal recruitment at all. They're like,

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Speaker 3: we have enough members. Some will say we really need

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Speaker 3: like five more girls, or we need to bring our

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Speaker 3: GPA up so we need five smart girls, or we

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Speaker 3: need more athletes or whatever it is. And so because

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Speaker 3: I had already kind of established this relationship, they were

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Speaker 3: actually taking quite a large group for DG for that year,

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Speaker 3: and so I was able to kind of slot in.

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Speaker 3: You do the same sort of you go to the

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Speaker 3: house and you meet the girls and they vote and

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Speaker 3: all of that sort of thing, but it's not as

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Speaker 3: you're not going to every house. I didn't talk to

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Speaker 3: any other sorority, right, I only talked to Delta Gamma

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Speaker 3: you are.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's just so funny. So okay, So I

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Speaker 1: watched BAMA last night, the documentary about sororities, and I

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Speaker 1: learned about top tier sororities versus lower tier sororities. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So was this a top tier sorority.

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Speaker 3: No. It's very interesting because I think it's like it

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Speaker 3: was unspoken. We never once would you have heard anyone

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Speaker 3: at my school say top tier sorority, right, but you knew.

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Speaker 3: And I'm curious now where they fall, like if eighty

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Speaker 3: PI is still the number one sorority at College of

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Speaker 3: Charleston or if it's shifted and it's different now. But

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Speaker 3: they were like the number one sorority, okay, And there

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Speaker 3: were a couple others where like they were number one,

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Speaker 3: and then there were kind of like a few that

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Speaker 3: I remember being like just underneath them, like Kyo and

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Speaker 3: Cappa Delta, and then there were the ones that were

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Speaker 3: right underneath that, which were the Delta Gammas, and then

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Speaker 3: there were lower ones. So we were kind of like

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Speaker 3: middle of the A B plus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's a top tier sorority? How would you define that?

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Speaker 3: I mean, gosh, eighty pi, I guess was like really smart,

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Speaker 3: really hot, skinny, A lot of blondes, but they had

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Speaker 3: some brunettes. Diverse, it was very diverse. They just seemed cool.

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Speaker 3: And it's weird because cool is sort of this like undefinable.

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Speaker 2: It's just like the popular girls in high school.

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Speaker 3: You can't define why they got to where they are,

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Speaker 3: but they were the cool girls.

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Speaker 1: Can I take a guess from Bama? Yeah, so Gracie O'Connor,

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Speaker 1: she's the first girl who went viral from Bama. Rush.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the information I gathered from the documentary. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I wasn't like live on the TikTok thing or anything.

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Speaker 1: But they asked her what makes a top chair authority

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Speaker 1: and she said the guys, Oh, the guys.

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Speaker 2: Like were the ones who decided.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She was like, you want to party with the best fraternities,

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Speaker 1: and they are only going to choose to party with

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of girls that year, so you want

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Speaker 1: to get the best group of girls together.

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Speaker 3: That's true to an extent. My school was very interesting

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Speaker 3: because it was seventy percent female, woa.

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Speaker 2: Yes, wow, so there was that.

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Speaker 3: And I can remember, like, there are definitely fraternities I

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Speaker 3: never met a single member of because we never mixed

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Speaker 3: with them ever. Like I wouldn't if someone came up

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Speaker 3: to me tomorrow and I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: we went to college together. I was in insert fraternity here,

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Speaker 3: I'd be like, I didn't even know that you were

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Speaker 3: on our campus. So that's definitely true to an extent.

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Speaker 3: But my school again, and in the uniqueness that it

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Speaker 3: was was so female dominated and like half of the

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Speaker 3: men were.

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Speaker 1: Gay, right, so that happen on Earth?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, my dream, but yeah, very very interesting.

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Speaker 1: Did you have any access to tests and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: I remember my friends in college and soparties were like,

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Speaker 1: we get the tests before to like look at.

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Speaker 3: No, Because as much as it felt like to people

361
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Speaker 3: in Greek life that Greek life was the thing at

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Speaker 3: my school, I think only like I was a tour guide,

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Speaker 3: so I used to know these percentages, But fifteen percent,

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Speaker 3: twenty percent of our campus was Greek it felt like

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Speaker 3: everyone because the people who really weren't involved in greek

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Speaker 3: life weren't involved in anything else. Yes, or they were

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Speaker 3: athletes and you were kind of mixing with them anyways.

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Speaker 3: But other than that, it really was Isn't that heavily

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Speaker 3: dominated even though it felt like that. So we definitely

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Speaker 3: didn't get access to those things. But maybe that's because

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Speaker 3: I wasn't on the ends. I don't know, it's possible.

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Speaker 2: So greek life meaning being a part of a fraternity

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Speaker 2: or sorority, Yeah, I want to go back to the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the process. So you end up choosing this

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Speaker 2: sorority that has some openings, you knew exactly what you wanted,

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Speaker 2: and was there any like was it difficult? Were there

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Speaker 2: any challenges? Did you have any like weird rituals that

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00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 2: they made to do?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean every storty has like weird like the

380
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,959
Speaker 3: initiation is like looking back, you're like, oh, what a

381
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 3: strange thing, and you kind of wonder it's so secretive.

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00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,919
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, is every sorority really the same? But

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Speaker 3: because we can't talk about it, we don't know that, right,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Yeah? So yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 3: and it was just like weird, like just the standing

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Speaker 3: around and being in the room and acting like this

387
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,679
Speaker 3: is some like you know, Mayan culture tradition that if

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Speaker 3: you don't do it, like the world will end in

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Speaker 3: twenty twelve or whatever I need. It was like it

390
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Speaker 3: was taken so seriously, and I'm like looking back and like,

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Speaker 3: I cannot believe that I bought in that this was

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Speaker 3: like the end all be all. And then things like

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Speaker 3: you know, chapter meetings, like mandatory attendant like things where

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Speaker 3: it's like I remember being at like lunch and then

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Speaker 3: being like, oh my god, I have to go because

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Speaker 3: I have to go to this chapter meeting and if

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Speaker 3: I miss it, I'll get fined or in trouble, and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, the amount of time I could have

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Speaker 3: freed up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but honestly, listening to you talk, I'm like, oh,

401
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: a sorority is exactly what I needed, because I just

402
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,919
Speaker 1: took myself totally out of the culture and went to

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Speaker 1: college and like I had friends that we went out

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Speaker 1: that I went out with, but I didn't like have

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Speaker 1: a group, like like have a group of friends to

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Speaker 1: walk to class too, and like totally I have to

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Speaker 1: go to chapter. I have to be responsible like I

408
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Speaker 1: was allowed to theory, you have those things right, right?

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Speaker 1: No one walked with me to class, right.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean. You're told that you'll get

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Speaker 3: these things, and you're told that you'll have this friend

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00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 3: group and this built in two hundred people. When you like,

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00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 3: the beauty of formal recruitment as a freshman is you

414
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Speaker 3: do it before school starts. So in theory, on your

415
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,679
Speaker 3: first day of class, you're going to walk past people

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Speaker 3: that you already know. You're going to feel like, oh,

417
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 3: this is not new for me. I feel comfortable here.

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00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 3: I go to class. Oh, my sorority sisters in.

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Speaker 2: My class, And I wonder if like going through that

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Speaker 2: initiation together maybe forms bonds that it would be harder

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Speaker 2: to get when you come in halfway through. Do you

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Speaker 2: think so.

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Speaker 3: You'd go through the same So, yes, you My pledge

424
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 3: class was smaller than like the more formal recruitment, but

425
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 3: every semester it's the same. So they go through. You

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00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 3: go through like pledge class. You have meetings and you

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00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 3: have to learn about your sorority and the history and

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00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,400
Speaker 3: why the colors are the colors, and who our founders

429
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 3: were and how important these people are and all those things,

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Speaker 3: and you go through that every week with your pledge class,

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Speaker 3: and then at the end of the semester you get initiated.

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Speaker 3: You're kind of proving loyalty in a way where you

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Speaker 3: go to these classes and you go to chapter meetings

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00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 3: and you have to get so many service hours and

435
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 3: you have to do all this stuff. Yeah, and then

436
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 3: you get initiated and then you're a member.

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Speaker 1: Mmm.

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Speaker 3: So for formal chapter you have to do the secret

439
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 3: handshake to get in, and when we were new members,

440
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: before you're initiated, you don't know the secret handshake, so

441
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 3: you're not allowed in, so you have to sit outside. Yeah,

442
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 3: so it's this kind of style. Yes, it's very like

443
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 3: prove yourself, prove your loyalty to us, to your sisters, whatever,

444
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 3: and then there is like a vote like did this

445
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 3: person do what they needed to do? People get dropped

446
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 3: before initiation. I'm not I think people in my plood

447
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 3: class did either choose to leave or were usked to leave.

448
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 3: But you can get dropped before you're initiated, like you're

449
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 3: not in when you're in, right in, when you're initiated.

450
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 2: Right, how many people were in your class?

451
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: Then we had quite a large group for informal recruitment,

452
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 3: probably like thirty. Oh okay, yeah, so it was you know,

453
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 3: some of them were like, we're taking like three right right.

454
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 3: So yeah, we had quite a large group, and I

455
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,439
Speaker 3: thought that was good because we were in a group

456
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 3: chat and like group me was a thing then. So

457
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 3: we had like a group me and we're like, oh,

458
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 3: we'll hang out over the summer and we'll all you know,

459
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 3: we're all kind of bonded by this experience of going

460
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 3: through this together. I couldn't name first and last name

461
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 3: of one girl in my pledge class right now. Oh wow,

462
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 3: if I had to really think about it, maybe I could.

463
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: I mean, you were saying on the in the lock

464
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 1: d some of the girls, you know, every person in

465
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: their wedding is from their Oh yeah, so that's their

466
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: whole life.

467
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 3: Still still, so what.

468
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: Point did this go from like expectation to reality? When

469
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: did the other shoot drop? Per se? Very early on,

470
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: Oh no, the handshake, you learned it and you were

471
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: like it's stupid.

472
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 3: Really early, the handshake is stupid, and I actually do

473
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 3: it for I had a friend no that that in

474
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: secret showed me his fraternity handshake. No, And I remember

475
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 3: going oddly formiliar. They're not the same, but they're very similar.

476
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: Right, That's kind of what happened when I got my mantra.

477
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to say it out loud.

478
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 2: That's how I feel about everyone's mantra.

479
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, don't get blacky it's on your birthday and

480
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: start screaming your mantra because other people will say that's mine. Oh,

481
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: and you'll feel a little less special. Yeah, so the

482
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: hand so okay. So so the handshake wasn't that cool.

483
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 3: None of it was that cool.

484
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: Well, when you when you first got an issue, were

485
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 2: you excited or were you already sort of like, yeah,

486
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: this hasn't been that great.

487
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 3: I think I was revery naive and thinking it hasn't

488
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 3: been that great, but it's definitely going to get better.

489
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 3: I was someone who, if you can't tell, is super

490
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 3: ambitious and like, really, when I'm in something, I'm in it.

491
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 3: And I came from organized religion, so I already had

492
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 3: kind of and we've talked about this. When you're in

493
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 3: a cult like environment and you leave, it's very easy

494
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 3: to unknowingly find another one very quickly.

495
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: So which organized religion were you a part of?

496
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 3: I was non denominational Christian. Okay, so we're talking Hillsong.

497
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: Everyone I know had either been to a Hillsong campus

498
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 3: like in Australia or attended Hillsong College. So I was

499
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 3: very much in that. The high school I graduated from

500
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 3: was also a Christian high school, so like very very

501
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 3: in it. And when I left that's actually kind of

502
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 3: a crazy story, but long story short. I moved to

503
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: Florida to work at a church when I was like

504
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 3: sixteen years old, graduated high school, moved to Florida to

505
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 3: work like full time.

506
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 2: At a church sixteen you graduate, That's.

507
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 3: What I thought, Like, I'm going to be a pastor

508
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: at a church. Like crazy, I can see it crazy times, yes,

509
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 3: So I had to follow. When I got out of

510
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 3: it four months later, I moved to go move into college.

511
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 3: So it's like you kind of don't even realize how

512
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 3: you're attracted to like community. That word like still triggers me.

513
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: It's like the idea of that. You're like, oh, well,

514
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 3: I just lost mine, so I'm going to just go

515
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 3: into the next one. But for me, I think it

516
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 3: all sort of came to a head when I realized

517
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: I wasn't fitting in with these girls, I think it

518
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 3: would have been a lot easier to be really bought in.

519
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 3: So were you.

520
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: Are you saying you were sixteen when you went to college.

521
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 3: I was seventeen.

522
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: You were seventeen. So do you think it had anything

523
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: to do with you being younger?

524
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: Maybe a little? Yeah, that's I mean, like one percent. Yeah,

525
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I think like I would

526
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 3: have had it been a year later, I would have

527
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 3: had the same experience.

528
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,719
Speaker 2: So what was the racial makeup of the sorority that

529
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: you were.

530
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 3: I, as a half black, half white woman, was the

531
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: blackest person in my sorority. Wow, And I think that

532
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 3: was ever Potentially I'd have to really go back and

533
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: look what. I can't imagine in twenty twelve that they

534
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 3: had regressed any So yeah, I would say that I was.

535
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And did you feel that from the beginning or

536
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: was there a certain point where you're like, I feel

537
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: like they are treating me differently? Like what was that experience?

538
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 3: Like I didn't really notice the racial thing until later on,

539
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: and then it was almost like a movie where you're

540
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: like watching back all of these experiences you've had and

541
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 3: you're like, oh my god, Like I didn't notice this

542
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: before that's terrifying. Yeah, yeah, people, I'm paying to be

543
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: my friend.

544
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna ask how much is it?

545
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 3: Mine wasn't as expensive as the Alabama documentary, but it was.

546
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: I mean, and I say that coming from a place

547
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 3: of privilege, where like I was fortunate enough to not

548
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: have to take out as many student loans because my

549
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: family was helpful, and I mean they didn't pay fully,

550
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 3: but I was very fortunate. But even then, it was

551
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: thousands of dollars, you know, and when you're a college kid,

552
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 3: if you're parents aren't paying for it, you're making what

553
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 3: the minimum wage at the time was seven twenty five

554
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: an hour. Yeah, so like, you know, that's a whole

555
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 3: semester of working almost full time on top of school

556
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 3: to pay to be in this sorority. So yeah, it's

557
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 3: a pretty penny. But yeah, I feel like it was

558
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: definitely building up. I didn't feel like I belonged from Jump.

559
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: I definitely felt like and that's where, like it's hard

560
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 3: to say it was because I was black. I don't know,

561
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: they've never said that. Yeah, but immediately there was a divide.

562
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 3: I was watching groups start to form within the larger

563
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: group of oh these girls are friends with each other,

564
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: and these girls are friends with each other, and these

565
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 3: girls are starting to become friends, and there I'm just

566
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 3: around and it was like heartbreaking because you can't swap sororities, right,

567
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 3: you can't just say, well, I don't want to be

568
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: in this one anymore, I want to be in that.

569
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: One, right, I like girls from another one more.

570
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: I had other friends and other sororities. I don't think

571
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 3: I would have joined another one just because my experience

572
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 3: was so heartbreaking, But like, I actually still to this

573
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: day have dreams, like you know, you have those dreams

574
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 3: where like you're late for class and then you're like,

575
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 3: I'm not in school anymore. I have dreams where I'm

576
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 3: in another sorority. Yeah, and you're like and you're like shit, yeah,

577
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: I'm like regrets, regrets, regrets, And I think that as

578
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 3: a twenty seven year old, i'd say I would never

579
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: do it again. But at twenty two, twenty three, twenty four,

580
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: I was living with that regret of would my experience

581
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: have been different if I had just joined a different

582
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: sorority with better people?

583
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: Right? Probably not, But I don't know, the word heartbreaking

584
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: is so powerful. I was wondering, like what you found

585
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: to be the most heartbreaking feeling.

586
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: The most heartbreaking experience I had was not knowingly heartbreaking

587
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 3: until much later in life. So I was on the

588
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 3: other side of recruitment. Formal recruitment. They take it very seriously.

589
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: You have to wear certain colors and certain outfits on

590
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: certain days, and talking points and who have you spoken

591
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 3: to and do you like them? And are they a

592
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: good fit whatever that means, and all of those things.

593
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: And I actually pulled pictures so I could send them

594
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 3: to I wore my hair curly, and that was like

595
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 3: you would have thought the world was going to end.

596
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 3: I was pulled aside by the recruitment director and she

597
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: informed me that if I wore my hair curly again,

598
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: I would be fined what And I remember kind of

599
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 3: like I was very like silent. I never was very

600
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 3: vocal with these girls because I just felt like very uncomfortable.

601
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: Well, there's a power dynamic that's so weird.

602
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: And I remember thinking like why, but I didn't need

603
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 3: to ask. She continued that there is you. There's like

604
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: a standard, so you have to look presentable at recruitment

605
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: or you get in trouble. And she was basically equating

606
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 3: my hair to like if someone didn't wear the right

607
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 3: shoes or wear the right outfit color, whatever, that they

608
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 3: would be fined. And if my hair didn't match, then

609
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 3: I would be fined, equating that to like a choice

610
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 3: I could make as if I'm putting on a shirt, yes, right, yes,

611
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: and also the ignorance of all other things. Aside, if

612
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 3: I were white with curly hair, would we be having

613
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: this conversation. But also we're we're working sixteen hours a day.

614
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 3: You get up, you get ready, you go in, you

615
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: talk to girls all day, and then you go and

616
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 3: vote at night.

617
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: So this is this is when other young like the

618
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: new class of girls is trying to get into this.

619
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 3: Trying to get it. So we're, yeah, we're trying to

620
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: put our best foot forward.

621
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: So you're a little sleep deprived, you see a lot.

622
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: And I remember thinking to myself, with that schedule, even

623
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: if I wanted to blige, when would I have time

624
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: to straighten my hair?

625
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: Right?

626
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: Like, when were you when we leave at midnight, You're

627
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 3: expecting me to go home, wash my hair, straighten my hair,

628
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 3: and come back at five in the morning, right, Like,

629
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: what's the expectation here? And in the moment, it was

630
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: kind of like I was very upset because I was

631
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 3: just so stressed about the logistics. I was just thinking

632
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: about how it was impossible for me to do this.

633
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 3: I wasn't even thinking about how horrible it was that

634
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: she said it.

635
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: Right, It really feels like you woke up later in

636
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: a horror movie.

637
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 3: It's like waking up in a nightmare. Yeah, because you're

638
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: also then like you're complicit in the eyes of other people. Right,

639
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: I never spoke up for myself. Right, So now when

640
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: I wake up years and years later, going, wait, that

641
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: was really messed up. I'm like now having to grapple

642
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 3: with was I complicit in my own abuse? Because I

643
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: never looked at that girl and said, you can't say that?

644
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 3: So because I didn't stand up for myself, did I

645
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 3: allow it to happen? It was like very like, oh

646
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: my god, like what came first, the chicken or the egg?

647
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: Like very mentally traumatize it.

648
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: Isn't it funny how you do that? We're like the

649
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: one in the position of no power compared to the

650
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: people who are above us in the hierarchy, and us

651
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: not stopping them from doing the thing, right, is somehow

652
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: our fault, our fault, even if everyone's doing it.

653
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, like it's very crazy. And then I started to

654
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 3: think about so that that came to mind years later,

655
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: I mean years. It was like during COVID and the

656
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: Black Lives Matter movement and people were sharing their experiences

657
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: and I was like, wait a minute, that happened to me.

658
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: And then I started to think about more things that

659
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: were very off, like, for example, I like, I said,

660
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 3: I really want to to dive in head first and

661
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 3: be like super involved because I came from an environment

662
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 3: where like I was in organized religion and I was

663
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: like in the band church every day, setting up chair,

664
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 3: like doing all the things. So I was like, the

665
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 3: natural progression of my sorority is to hold a leadership position.

666
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: I want to get involved. I want to be on

667
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: the team when they have their little meetings, like I

668
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 3: want to be in the room, Like I want to

669
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 3: contribute to this organization as much as I possibly could.

670
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: I had expressed interest in doing all of those things,

671
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, I started getting called

672
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: into like what's called honorboard. And honor board is where

673
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: you go when you're in trouble, and and trouble is

674
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 3: air quotes because it could be for anything. Oh, you

675
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: were talking badly about a sister. Oh you wore your

676
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: letters to the bar. Oh you like things that are

677
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: like we live in made up land and these are

678
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: made up rules, And now I have to go to

679
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: made up honor board and you're gonna slap me on

680
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: the wrist or give me like a thirty dollars fine

681
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: for what exactly?

682
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: Who is on the honor board The.

683
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: Vice president of social standards, the president. Adult women who

684
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 3: are our advisors for our sorority. Like we're talking like

685
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 3: adults with jobs, right, Women who have been out of

686
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 3: school sit on the honor board? Adult women?

687
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

688
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 3: And I remember getting called in because my big in

689
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 3: the sorority had left.

690
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: What's a big?

691
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 3: A big is? So while you're going through that recruitment

692
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 3: kind of like induction phase where you're a new member

693
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 3: but you're not in yet, you get a big sister

694
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 3: who's supposed to kind of walk you through the ins

695
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 3: and outs of the sorority, someone you can like get

696
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 3: coffee with, be friends with, okay, okay, to make you

697
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 3: feel include.

698
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: And did you like your big I liked my big I.

699
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 3: Picked my big You kind of it's it's a surprise,

700
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 3: but you kind of have an idea of like who

701
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 3: you're going to get. And I wanted someone who was

702
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 3: on the leadership team because I wanted to learn and

703
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 3: grow with my big. And so my big was the

704
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: vice president of finance. She was fabulous. Her name's Caroline,

705
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 3: She lived in the house. She was very integrated. So

706
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 3: I was like, this is perfect because I'll kind of

707
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 3: learn the ropes from you. And we got along really

708
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: well and we had a lot of similar interests and whatever.

709
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 3: She left the school she transferred.

710
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: Oh shit.

711
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 3: So when we came back, I was I was moving

712
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 3: into the house. Now only eleven girls lived in my

713
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 3: sorority house because of the laws in Charleston, South Carolina.

714
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: What if more than I think it's eleven girls live

715
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: in a house, it's a brothel.

716
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: Stuck.

717
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 3: So I was one of the lucky ones who got

718
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 3: to live in the house. Why why did you get

719
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 3: picked to live in the house. You applied so if

720
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 3: you weren't on the leadership team, you could apply and

721
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 3: then they picked people. So they let me. They picked me,

722
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 3: and I was like, this is a good sign.

723
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would I would think that I.

724
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 3: Was like this is a good sign, Like maybe this

725
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: means like I'll eventually be like in and all of this,

726
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: You're gonna be president.

727
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 1: Let's be honest, right, But even.

728
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 3: Then, like I think my my favorite position was like

729
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 3: VP of Social Standards. I think that we're just remembering

730
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 3: that was like my number one, Like.

731
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: You really wanted to like uphold these.

732
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 3: I want it. Yes, I was like I'm in this,

733
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 3: which made everything else feel so strange. Right, You're accusing

734
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 3: me of not wanting to uphold the beauty standard at

735
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 3: recruitment or not wanting to uphold all these things, but

736
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: I'm in it, Like I don't know, you don't need

737
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 3: to be getting mad at me. I'm here. I'm like

738
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 3: trying to ride on the bus with you, you know

739
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 3: what I mean. So it was very strange. But I

740
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: remember getting called in after Caroline had transferred and I

741
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 3: was told that other girls had gone to the honor

742
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 3: board and said Madison is talking badly about Caroline her

743
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 3: big and it's making us feel uncomfortable. And I remember

744
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 3: looking at this honorboard going, no one talks to me.

745
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: Who could I have possibly said anything bad too about

746
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: the only person I actually liked right, And I remember

747
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 3: them specif saying, we know that you're applying for positions,

748
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 3: and it's just not a good look that people are

749
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: saying this to us. And I think that's when it

750
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: clicked for me that oh, you're making this up so

751
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 3: that I will never get a position.

752
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: Wow.

753
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 2: Do you think that there was anyone who like had

754
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 2: it out for you, who was like actually feeding them rumors?

755
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, because the girls that they said said

756
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 3: it are the only people I could think of that

757
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: I have even brought up Caroline too or said like, oh,

758
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: like I wish Caroline, you know, was here still or whatever.

759
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 3: Were people who I really didn't get that vibe from.

760
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 3: But anything is possible.

761
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: Fine, Well, and that Bama duck that there's that girl

762
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: who gets a call from her friend while they're rushing

763
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: and she's like, I just heard you were talking shit

764
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: about me. And I was like, oh my god, this

765
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: is mean girls. And the girl hangs up and she

766
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: was like, I wasn't talking shit about her, And I'm

767
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: kind of believed her and was just like, yeah, they'd

768
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: make that up. They like for sure, separating people and

769
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: dividing and like it's like Game of Thrones.

770
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 3: Out there totally and it was very like I couldn't

771
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 3: believe it. And then a year later, so I lived

772
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: in the house for that whole year, which was the

773
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: first time in my life. I knew that I was

774
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 3: depressed and had anxiety inherently. I never admitted it. I

775
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: hit like a low. I had never had like suicidal

776
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: ideation before until that year when I lived in my

777
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 3: sorority house. Oh my god, I remember, Oh, I might

778
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: need the tissues. I knew that I wasn't getting anywhere

779
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: with my sorority, and I was also involved in student government,

780
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: so I was like, maybe that's just my path. Maybe

781
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 3: I'm just in the sorority till the end and I

782
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 3: just don't need to be involved, and I'll just go

783
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 3: to the mandatory things and maybe my friends aren't in

784
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 3: it and that's okay, and I'll just find my own

785
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 3: path elsewhere. And I ran for student body secretary and

786
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 3: I thought that my sorority was supportive of that, and

787
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: I lost. And I remember there were some girls who

788
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 3: were like bullying me very heavily online. I had never

789
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: experienced cyber bullying before, and I was a college aged woman.

790
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 3: It was shocking, and I was so upset, I went

791
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 3: back to my sorority house and I was like bawling,

792
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 3: and no one asked me if I was okay, Like

793
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 3: no one checked in, no one was like, hey, what's

794
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 3: going on, Like sorry about the written nothing, And that's

795
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 3: when I think I really realized, like, these women are

796
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: not my friends. But I had one or two people

797
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 3: who was like, I think I could try with you.

798
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 3: I think we could try to like actually be friends.

799
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: I think I can try to get you to notice

800
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: that I'm weeping.

801
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I could try to get you to

802
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 3: care about me. And one of those girls. The next year,

803
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 3: we had recruitment. It was our senior year, and that's

804
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 3: the recruitment that I was told my hair couldn't be curly.

805
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 3: So I was already starting to get the vibe right,

806
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: like these girls just don't like me. But it wasn't

807
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 3: until they let me know that for a fact. So

808
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: we were talking about a girl that I went through

809
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,439
Speaker 3: recruitment with and I really liked her and I wanted

810
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 3: her to be in the sorority. And she was someone

811
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: I had already known. She was a sophomore rushing, so

812
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 3: it was like a girl that I had gotten to

813
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 3: know in the past year. And I was like, I

814
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 3: think she'd be really good fit. She's like really awesome.

815
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: And I stood up and said, so you have to

816
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 3: say a pro, a con, another con, and another pro

817
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: so that you end on a positive note about the women.

818
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 3: Now that's me.

819
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: I hate that.

820
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 3: And you can say like anything. So like I could

821
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: stand up and say I have a pro, and then

822
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: someone else could be like, Okay, I have a con,

823
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: and then another person could say a con, and then

824
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 3: someone else and sometimes it's uncomfortable because it's like anybody

825
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 3: have another pro?

826
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 2: Oh no?

827
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

828
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: So I stood up and I said a pro for

829
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 3: this girl. I really liked her. I was like, she's

830
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 3: you know, I think she'd be a really good fit

831
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 3: for our sorority in whatever context that means. You know,

832
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: I was really drinking the kolig and they voted her.

833
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 3: No for this girl, and I remember saying, I just

834
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 3: don't understand. I said, like a long list. I mean,

835
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 3: I think I talked for like three minutes about how

836
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 3: wonderful this girl was. I no one had a con.

837
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 3: Why didn't they vote her in? And they was like,

838
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: they just don't like you very much. Oh, And I

839
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: was like, oh oh. The quote exactly is, oh, well,

840
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: no one listens to you because they just don't like

841
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 3: you very much.

842
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:08,959
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

843
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, okay, geez, yeah.

844
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: Were you still living in the house at this point?

845
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 3: At this point, I was no longer living in the house.

846
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 3: Was my first year not living in the house. And

847
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: but a year later I moved in with that girl

848
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 3: and we graduated college and we lived together and it

849
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 3: was miserable and she stopped being my friend before we

850
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 3: even moved in and made my life a living hell.

851
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: And now we don't speak. I haven't spoken since.

852
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 2: Oh geez, did it sort of crack open for you

853
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: at that point?

854
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 3: Were you like, yeah, for sure. I think that that

855
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 3: recruitment was at the beginning of my senior year, so

856
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: I had pretty much resorted at that point. I'm no

857
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: longer living in the house. I don't have a position,

858
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: and that was sort of the end to get one.

859
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 3: So it was like, you're not going to ever have

860
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: a position, and I was just sort of like, all right,

861
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: I'm checking out. I'll pay the dues, I'll show up

862
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 3: to the mandatory things, just because I didn't want to

863
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: deal with the fallout of actually leaving, right, so I'll

864
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 3: just do the bare minimum, And it was still uncomfortable.

865
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: Even showing up to the things was really uncomfortable because

866
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: it almost felt like it felt like I should have

867
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: just left. That's what they wanted, That's what they were

868
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 3: probably pushing for, and I wasn't giving them what they wanted,

869
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 3: but not even in like a vendetta kind of way.

870
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 3: I just didn't realize that's what I should have done.

871
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's so crazy, and oh there was another rumor.

872
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: I guess, I don't know. I don't know. Obviously, I

873
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 3: wanted to be involved in the leadership team and I

874
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 3: was really set on like VP of Social Standards and

875
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 3: the president at the time, who I thought actually was

876
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 3: like someone I could at least go to for whatever

877
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 3: personal things. Came up to me and was like, are

878
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 3: you telling people that you're president of Delta Gamma And

879
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 3: I was like no, and I'm not even close to

880
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: being president of DG and I never will be. And

881
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 3: she said that she had heard, which I don't know

882
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 3: if she had made it up or if she really

883
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 3: had heard this, that I was telling people that this

884
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 3: is so weird, and I was like, our school is big,

885
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 3: but it's not that big. Like if I was saying that, obviously,

886
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 3: it's not like I thought I would get away with it,

887
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 3: So why would Like it's just such an absurd thing

888
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 3: to hear that, You're like, it's so insane that it's

889
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: not true obviously, And yeah, it was just like it'd

890
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 3: be like, oh, mag and I heard you were like

891
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: going around telling people that the sky is purple, and

892
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 3: I just think that's like really.

893
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: Making stuff up.

894
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: I mean, was there like like did something dramatic happened?

895
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: Was there like some argument over a lever or something?

896
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: Nothing? And I even I even asked like, well, where

897
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 3: did that? Who told you that? I said that? To

898
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 3: that to just kind of be like was I talking

899
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 3: to someone? In my words? Got like I'm just trying

900
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 3: to figure out kind of where things went awry and

901
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: she couldn't tell me. She couldn't think or remember whatever.

902
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 3: And I was like, Oh that's funny.

903
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: Rumors strike me fucking crazy?

904
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, has it?

905
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those tricky things where it's like

906
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: it's so hard to parse, like, is there is there

907
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 2: a bad actor who's spreading rumors active because they hate me?

908
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: Is there a game is telephone, Yeah happening where like

909
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: one person said one thing and then I got twisted

910
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: or is there an active conspiracy to oust me because

911
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: people decided I don't belong whether it's just because they

912
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 2: don't like me or because they're racist.

913
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 3: Right, And it's such a touchy topic that you can't

914
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 3: even make those accusations, right, You can't. I just can't.

915
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 3: And so that's what's made it really difficult. And I

916
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 3: remember the first time I ever really spoke up about

917
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: any of this was just like, I'm not a I

918
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: don't have a massive following, so it was just like,

919
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 3: I think a tweet or like an Instagram post or

920
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 3: something very very subtle, and it was just like, oh,

921
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 3: these things are going around, you know, about sororities and whatever.

922
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 3: And I didn't have a great experience in mind, and

923
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 3: these are like two of the things that happened to

924
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 3: me that weren't so great, bad, nothing crazy. I wasn't

925
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 3: like tagging people or like trying to get people fired

926
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: from their jobs. And I had people messaging me from

927
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: my sorority wow that I knew. Some were apologetic and

928
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 3: some were like how dare you? And I was approached

929
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 3: by one of my advisors, the adults in the rooms

930
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 3: for these conversations that were very traumatic for me, and

931
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 3: they didn't do anything. And she said, oh, you know,

932
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 3: Delta Gamma is really trying to highlight diverse voices and

933
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 3: da da da da dah. And I think that you

934
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: have a really interesting perspective and could be really helpful

935
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 3: in those rooms in those conversations. And as someone who

936
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: is easily manipulated, I was like, I would be down

937
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 3: to talk to someone for sure. When was this twenty

938
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 3: twenty okay, right around the Black Lives Matter summer movement?

939
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: And did you you graduated college?

940
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 3: And I had been done. I graduated in twenty fifteen.

941
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: But you were in the sorority when you graduated.

942
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've you wrote it. Out paid my alumni dues

943
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: for life, so I'm an alumni member until they find

944
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 3: in this interview. So I reached out or I was

945
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 3: put in like an email thread with whomever it was.

946
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 3: I can't even remember her name. And my friend the

947
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 3: advisor who I won't say her name because I do

948
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: kind of like her, she was like, hey, whoever, this

949
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 3: is Madison, had you know a unique experience in Delta Gamma,

950
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 3: Da da da da da, and she'd really, I know

951
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 3: that you're trying to kind of up your you know,

952
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 3: awareness of these things and trying to be proactive and

953
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 3: you know whatever, She's someone maybe you could talk to.

954
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: And I just responded, I said, yeah, like I'm here,

955
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: like I'm interested to hear kind of the initiatives you're

956
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 3: doing and like what's happening moving forward and how I

957
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 3: could be a part of it. And this woman was like, yeah,

958
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 3: we'll let you know if we like do anything, but like,

959
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 3: I don't really need to talk to you right now.

960
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 3: There's no reason to talk to you about any of this.

961
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 3: And I don't really know what happened to you, but

962
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 3: like whatever, we'll we'll talk if there's something that we

963
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 3: can think of for you. And I never heard from

964
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 3: them since.

965
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: Damn. It could have been an opportunity.

966
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 3: It could have been a huge opportunity, a massive opportunity.

967
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 3: Why don't they.

968
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: Take this opportunity if somebody hears this to just email

969
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: you back and say, how can we rectify this with

970
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 1: the next generations of people coming through and not make God?

971
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 3: And I wish that I even had ideas, But the

972
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 3: problem is the literal foundation of these organizations is exclusivity, right,

973
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 3: So I don't really know how in any way they

974
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 3: can exist and not be that. And it's funny because

975
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 3: the women's movement so interestingly correlates with racial movements, and

976
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 3: so the idea of a sorority being founded to give

977
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 3: women a place to gather sounds good, but it's white women. Yeah,

978
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 3: And so you want to feel so strongly in like

979
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 3: your feminism, but sometimes feminism almost is the antithesis of

980
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 3: racial justice, right. And it's an interesting conversation that we

981
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 3: definitely don't have time for today. But it's something that

982
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 3: like I've been trying to rack my brain around of like,

983
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 3: is fixing these organizations the solve or is getting rid

984
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: of these organizations to solve I don't know. And if

985
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 3: they can think of a way to make things right,

986
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: I'm all on board. But also like, I don't have

987
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: the time to help you for free, right, right, Like

988
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: that's not my job, right, You get paid a salary

989
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 3: to work at Delta Gamma headquarters, right? Cool?

990
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean people's jobs and that Bama Rush thing

991
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: are to be what's the word.

992
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 3: They're Smothers are also like, oh yeah, Carrie, yeah, that's

993
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: a witch for women who couldn't bear to leave their sorority,

994
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 3: so now they live in the house as adults.

995
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: A rush consultant, yes, people who help you learn how

996
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: to rush better.

997
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 3: And I'm sure I didn't have this experience, but I

998
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 3: would guess and assume that a lot of those women,

999
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 3: if they're talking black women who want to rush white sororities,

1000
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 3: or coaching them on how to speak, how to wear

1001
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 3: their hair, how to dress, what jewelry to wear, right,

1002
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 3: and all of those things are inherently racist. Yeah.

1003
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: I mean Alabama was segregated at sororities until twenty twelve,

1004
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:19,439
Speaker 1: is what I believe. The documentary said.

1005
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, I mean, and there are black sororities. Yeah,

1006
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 3: there's still are. So the argument there is, well, I

1007
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: could have just joined one of those, right, If I

1008
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: didn't want to deal with that, I could have just

1009
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 3: joined a black sorority. Why should I have to?

1010
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1011
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 3: Right? Like, yeah, black people could have also just gone

1012
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 3: to a different school, I guess, or used a different

1013
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 3: water fountain and gone to a different bathroom. But that's

1014
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 3: not the point, right, And also, given my background and upbringing,

1015
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 3: I was very naive to even those options. My white

1016
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 3: mom raised me. I didn't know about the cultural impact

1017
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 3: and significance of these black sororities at the time. I

1018
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 3: learned a little bit more about it while I was

1019
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 3: in school and I was meeting these women. That's also

1020
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 3: one of those, you know, nightmarish things of do I

1021
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 3: wake up and think, Oh, what if I had just

1022
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 3: joined the black one, I would have probably still felt

1023
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 3: a little different. But they were always very kind to

1024
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 3: me at school, inviting me to things, right.

1025
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 2: So dude, So yeah, I'm like, is I feel like well?

1026
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: Sororities and fraternities probably not going away.

1027
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 3: Definitely not going right because it's an institution. Yeah, exactly,

1028
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 3: it's making money for someone. What do you say to

1029
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: somebody who's going to rush this year. I think that

1030
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 3: the biggest thing that can change immediately about sororities and

1031
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 3: fraternities is the significance people let them hold in their lives.

1032
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: If you want to be a part of it because

1033
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 3: it's cute, you love the letters, you want the Lily

1034
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 3: Pulitzer bag, fine, but don't make it your personality. Yeah,

1035
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 3: because just as quickly as they let you in, they

1036
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 3: will turn you away. And if you don't let it

1037
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 3: become that serious, then it can can't become that serious. Yeah.

1038
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: And the dock they said they want people to be brands,

1039
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: not individual Yeah, and so they just want you to become.

1040
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,959
Speaker 3: Let it be if you're get in and it's fun,

1041
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 3: let it be fun, show up to the things that

1042
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: you have to and sometimes they're annoying, and then go

1043
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 3: make other friends elsewhere. Well.

1044
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: Well, it's like we always say, you say it first, have.

1045
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 2: Multiple sources of identity. And I'm sure there are sororities

1046
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 2: that are doing this responsibly. I'm not gonna shot on

1047
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 2: every sorority and say that no one is doing a

1048
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: good job. I'm sure there are. We'll probably get dms

1049
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: about that.

1050
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 3: Oh but sure i'll get death from the country.

1051
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 2: Really, But like they're I mean hopefully, and again I

1052
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: don't know anything about this world. I'm hoping that there

1053
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: are systems in place for if someone is experiencing racism

1054
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 2: or bullying or whatever, that there is a like a

1055
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 2: pathway to talk about that. Because if it's only the

1056
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: people around you that you're talking to, well of course

1057
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: you're not gonna say anything and they're the ones who

1058
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 2: are against you.

1059
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: And if the only people you're around are people in

1060
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: the Greek system. You start seeing the lens of the world.

1061
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: They're like, you said, twenty percent of your college was

1062
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: in the Greek system, but it looks like one hundred percent.

1063
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. And what's also funny because I'm twenty seven, Yeah,

1064
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 3: and I feel like I need a babysitter, Like I

1065
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 3: need an assistant full time to be like, did you

1066
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: do this? Did you do this? Like whatever, we were

1067
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 3: eighteen years old. It controlling eighteen year old's loves right, right,

1068
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like that is so irresponsible

1069
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 3: and disgusting because it's not like this is just some

1070
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 3: campus club. This is your living situation, your whole life.

1071
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 3: So we're leaving. Like when I was living in the house,

1072
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 3: my president was twenty one, you know.

1073
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 2: What I mean, I'm like, I would just do I'm like, shit.

1074
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 3: You're the person I'm supposed to go to if I

1075
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 3: really have like a racial injustice.

1076
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 2: Issue, right, huh right, that's insane of like twenty one

1077
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 2: year house crazy.

1078
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and so like I couldn't even want that

1079
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,879
Speaker 3: responsibility now in my life to do that then, I mean, yeah,

1080
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 3: I was eighteen thinking I could be vice president of

1081
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 3: social standards. Am I sorority. What on earth are we

1082
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 3: doing here and why are we making it so serious?

1083
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 3: I think that's where, like sororities can be less harmful

1084
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 3: if they aren't so serious. A vice president of social

1085
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 3: standards monitoring your Instagram so that you don't have a

1086
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 3: red solo cup in a picture? Oh is that do it?

1087
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: But I feel like that must offer some sort of

1088
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: safety for so many girls leaving home for the first time.

1089
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: Like I'm being independent and being watched, but I'm still independent,

1090
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: but I'm not because like I have responsibility, I have

1091
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: a role. Yeah, I do remember people telling me that

1092
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: I should rush halfway through my ear. This is all

1093
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: coming back to me and they're like, you can't talk

1094
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 1: to boys for four days, And I was like, well

1095
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: then I'm not going to do it, Like I never

1096
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,439
Speaker 1: do that, But girls really didn't talk to boys.

1097
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 3: For four days. The power you have this is.

1098
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: Coming from a very heteroonormative point of view. Okay, so

1099
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,760
Speaker 1: if what to dangle like so many sex option options

1100
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: in front of a seventeen eighteen year old and they

1101
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: not talk to them at all, that's a powerful hold

1102
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: over you.

1103
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: Four days is not that big.

1104
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: It's not four days.

1105
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 3: It's like a week.

1106
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: Okay, but still still it's like the biggest party week

1107
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: of the year and you're not allowed to go out

1108
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: and you're not allowed to talk to it again.

1109
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 3: It's that like the seriousness of it, right, You're like, Okay,

1110
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 3: then I won't and you're like then you start like

1111
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 3: over analyzing and you're like, well, my professor is a male,

1112
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 3: do I not? And then that's where it becomes this

1113
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: like extreme of like oh yeah, those new members and

1114
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 3: that sorority are like really crazy. They won't. They're like

1115
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 3: taping their mouths shop for the day because they were

1116
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 3: told to. And it's like because they've bought in that much.

1117
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 3: But it's not that serious.

1118
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: Well, and I can imagine, and y'all would know more

1119
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 2: about this than me, but I can imagine it would

1120
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: be conducive to like probably eating disorders and fixations on

1121
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 2: like you know, the way that you present yourself and

1122
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: being perfect and being classy in more quotes, you.

1123
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: Know, the brand.

1124
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 3: I mean, even thinking about my horrific experience I was

1125
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 3: keep in mind amid to low tier sorority, imagine how

1126
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 3: horrifying it would have been if I had to also

1127
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 3: deal with what I was dealing with and lose weight

1128
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 3: and be pretty and be blonde and be whatever, and

1129
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 3: that happens all the time for so many people, most

1130
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 3: of them look like me, because it's you know, I

1131
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 3: think that the racial thing really impacts like mixed girls

1132
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 3: going through white sorority recruitment because you fit in just

1133
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 3: enough that they let you in, and then you have

1134
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 3: to deal with the slew of things that they don't

1135
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 3: like about you. And I just my heartbreaks for people

1136
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 3: who are experiencing what I experienced every day and doing

1137
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 3: what I did, which is nothing, and just feeling like

1138
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 3: I'm paying people to tell me that I can't wear

1139
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 3: my hair curly right, like the year, the years and

1140
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 3: years and years of me chemically straightening my hair, like

1141
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 3: ruining my hair, feeling like if it was curly, I

1142
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 3: was ugly. Like the psychological damage that that one conversation

1143
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 3: did to me and still does to me every day

1144
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 3: from one redheaded bitch I like, And there were probably

1145
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 3: other things, but for whatever reason, that thing stuck in

1146
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 3: my head still sticks in my head, and it's so

1147
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 3: heartbreaking to think about people who are like I watched

1148
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 3: the Bama Doc for whatever it's worth, and watching the

1149
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 3: one girl who was also biracial, Like, it just was

1150
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,439
Speaker 3: heartbreaking because it's like, I just there's nothing that will

1151
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 3: change the beauty standards.

1152
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: And she quit.

1153
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 3: She quit, Yeah, she quit halfway through Rush.

1154
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: Spoiler alert. She was like, fuck this shit.

1155
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: What was her experience?

1156
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: Approximately generally that it was awful, And she was the

1157
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: girl who got called and was like, I've heard you

1158
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: been talking about me.

1159
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 3: No, it is very, very weird, and I really hate

1160
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 3: I'm someone who really does not like to make things

1161
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 3: about race, because I do think that there were thousands

1162
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 3: of other reasons that they could have not liked me

1163
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 3: besides the color of my skin or the fact that

1164
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 3: my dad was black. But watching her go through something

1165
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 3: so specific to what I went through was actually like

1166
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 3: a real like mind twist of like, oh my god,

1167
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 3: Like because I do not have the livable perspective of

1168
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 3: just a white person, is that something that happened? Like

1169
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 3: it was like, oh my god, this does happen, you

1170
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 3: know what I mean? Because that was my experience and

1171
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 3: the exact same thing is happening.

1172
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: So people are like making rumors up about her as well.

1173
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were saying like very similar they Her friend

1174
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 3: called her and was like, oh, like the new like

1175
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 3: the girls in the sorty I'm like trying to get

1176
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 3: into or whatever are telling me that you're talking about me,

1177
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 3: you call me psycho, and that you said all these

1178
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 3: horrible things about me and the girls, Like but I

1179
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 3: never even said that.

1180
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: Because I don't even know what's lies anymore. And then

1181
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: she's seeing this like making like specialist to help you

1182
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: get a consultant to help you get into a sorority,

1183
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: and she's like taking her to his stores for middle

1184
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,919
Speaker 1: aged white women like like what was that like chicos,

1185
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, like like a khaki pant, like chunky necklace,

1186
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: and and it's terrifying.

1187
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 2: That is my nightmare.

1188
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think about like the lack of individualism

1189
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 3: as well, like I very much am an all black

1190
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 3: everything type of person and the fact that these women

1191
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 3: got me to wear florals, like I lost myself, you know,

1192
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 3: like I just can't believe that, like to kind of

1193
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 3: bring it all full circle, Getting into a sorority is

1194
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 3: supposed to feel empowering. It's supposed to feel like you

1195
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 3: are joining a group of people who accept you for

1196
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 3: who you are and everything that they are founded on

1197
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 3: and stand for is the antithesis of that, be the

1198
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 3: same think like us enjoy the things we enjoy, be

1199
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 3: passionate about the philanthropy we're passionate about, and you lose

1200
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 3: yourself in that when you are so desperate to be

1201
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 3: part of it, thinking that you're signing up to be yourself,

1202
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 3: and then you're in it, and you think of all

1203
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 3: the hard work you've just done, and that if you

1204
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 3: decide to be yourself, you lose all of that. It's

1205
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 3: so much easier to just buy in and say whatever, fine,

1206
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I would. I love pink and blue. They're

1207
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 3: my favorite color.

1208
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: Right, The costs lost fallacy of that is way too high.

1209
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: I'd be like, I'm riding.

1210
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1211
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: Group identity is so important, but not at the loss

1212
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 2: of our individual identity. Like it seems like that's what

1213
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: it's really all about, Like, let's find this shared identity

1214
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 2: in this community and also celebrate our difference is.

1215
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,919
Speaker 3: Individuality, And I think that's where they can go, right,

1216
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 3: you know, Like that's where there's so many opportunities for

1217
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 3: these organizations to do better by their members and their

1218
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 3: mental health, but they choose to embrace the things that

1219
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 3: can really be weaknesses and I think that kind of

1220
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 3: goes back to like what can be a strength can

1221
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 3: also be a weakness. And I just think they lean

1222
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 3: too far into these things that it becomes super damaging.

1223
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 3: But it could be powerful. They just go a little

1224
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 3: too far.

1225
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, or a lot. It's so that's the thing

1226
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 2: that's so hard with groups. It's so easy for it

1227
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 2: to go wrong. But they but like, we need groups,

1228
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 2: we are communal creatures, Like this is part of being

1229
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 2: a human. Yeah, so just like, yeah, making sure you're

1230
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 2: doing it responsibly is.

1231
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 3: But how do you know that at eighteen? And that's

1232
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 3: the problem.

1233
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 2: Don't these exactly?

1234
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 3: You don't know And.

1235
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: You don't want your own identity when you're eighteen?

1236
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 3: What what?

1237
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: You want to hide in the crowd and feel like

1238
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: you're an individual by doing the same shit other people

1239
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: like you are doing. And it might be a small

1240
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: group of people. But whatever, you're like not really a

1241
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: person yet.

1242
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 3: You're not a person at all. You're a figment of

1243
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 3: whatever you're around.

1244
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 2: Sorry, eighteen year olds listening, You're not a person. You're

1245
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 2: still evolving.

1246
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 3: You're a mood board.

1247
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're.

1248
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 3: A mood board of every girl in your sorority.

1249
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and they're not that great.

1250
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 2: So are we all the mood board of everyone lives?

1251
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 3: I'm a mood board of that curtain rate, just on

1252
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 3: the inside. Hands. No, But yeah, I think it's it's

1253
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 3: just really sad that like, these organizations in theory were

1254
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 3: founded to be this like wonderful thing, and the things

1255
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 3: that make them wonderful are the things that make them

1256
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 3: actually very damaging.

1257
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 2: If someone from the if someone who was a bully

1258
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 2: to you apologized to you, now, would you accept Probably.

1259
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 3: Just because I don't really even think about these people anymore.

1260
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 3: I actually when you were talking to me about this,

1261
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 3: I had to like open a section of my brain

1262
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 3: to be like, oh my god. Yeah, like there's like

1263
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 3: the traumatizing moments, but then it was like, oh god,

1264
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 3: there were all these other things. No, I would forgive them,

1265
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 3: mostly because I'd be like, please never message me ever again.

1266
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think I already have. But it would

1267
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 3: be nice for them to acknowledge that, you know, they

1268
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 3: feel bad about it. But it's also like an apology

1269
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 3: that's prompted doesn't feel genuine to me regardless, like yeah,

1270
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 3: you know, like, oh I heard you talk on that

1271
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 3: podcast and I'm really sorry that I hurt your feelings

1272
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 3: all that, you know, ten years ago and it's like, okay,

1273
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 3: but if you had never heard the podcast, would you

1274
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 3: have cared? No?

1275
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, but it's hard.

1276
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 3: I welcome it. I welcome it because I do think that, like,

1277
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 3: these women are now at an age where like they're

1278
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 3: getting married and they're gonna have kids, and like they're

1279
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 3: gonna put their kids through the same system that I

1280
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 3: went through, and their kids have the opportunity to be

1281
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 3: the bitchy bully that their moms were or they could not.

1282
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 3: And so, you know, I think any awareness is good,

1283
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 3: and you just have to make sure that you're you know,

1284
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 3: not allowing other people to be so shitty to people.

1285
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, awareness is everything. As I'm so glad you're coming

1286
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 2: on to talk to us about this.

1287
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1288
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: And also you have your own podcast.

1289
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 3: Do you have my own podcastle you.

1290
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 2: Give us the nutshell description of that?

1291
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 3: Sure? Twenty one years ago, almost to the day, my

1292
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 3: dad was murdered in Belmont County, Ohio and it is

1293
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 3: a cold case, completely unsolved. No, no, nothing, there's nothing.

1294
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 3: There weren't really any articles to be found until my

1295
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 3: podcast came out about it and now the articles are

1296
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 3: about the podcast, but it was very neglected and I

1297
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 3: was six at the time, and I didn't know that

1298
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 3: my dad was murdered until right before I went to college.

1299
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 3: Oh tramatic, So.

1300
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 2: What did you think happened?

1301
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: I thought that my dad had a heart attack and died. Wow,

1302
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 3: And that was not true. He was shot in the

1303
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 3: doorway of his home. He never caught the killers. It

1304
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 3: really was just sitting in a desk somewhere until actually,

1305
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 3: right before the Black Lives Matter movement, I felt really

1306
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 3: strongly compelled to look into it, and I started investigating

1307
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 3: it and I found a lot of things, and I

1308
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 3: made a podcast kind of going through my journey investigating

1309
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 3: my dad's murder and hoping that it will get solved.

1310
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 3: And we're hearing from the guy who lives in my

1311
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 3: dad's house messaged me on Facebook the other day, and

1312
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 3: I mean, we're definitely getting reach and people are reaching out,

1313
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 3: and I'm very hopeful that it will get solved and that.

1314
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: The clues are there. It seems like so obvious hearing you, like,

1315
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: but you are on a journey of like solving it

1316
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: with you. When I got here today, I had ten

1317
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: more minutes left your last one, and I was like,

1318
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: I can't come upstairs until I finish this, Like I

1319
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: have to know what happens. So it's called Ice Club

1320
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: Case and it is good.

1321
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, And that was sort of the idea

1322
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 3: was a lot of cases are getting solved through social media,

1323
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 3: but none of those people look like my dad, And

1324
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 3: if I could make a show that sounds just as

1325
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 3: interesting as any of those other ones, maybe people will

1326
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 3: feel compelled like they did for other cases, to tweet,

1327
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 3: to TikTok, to do all of those things, and maybe

1328
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 3: that will help my dad's case get solved since the

1329
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 3: actual officials in Belmont County are very uninterested. Wow. I

1330
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 3: was just hopeful that maybe it could brush up something

1331
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 3: and the or not will quote unquote do what it does.

1332
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 3: But I did feel the pressure because my dad was

1333
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 3: a black man. I had to make this podcast like

1334
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 3: the best podcast anyone's ever heard, or they wouldn't care.

1335
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, sadly, Yeah, but I'm I'm so excited to listen

1336
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 2: to it. Megan says, it's amazing, It sounds amazing. Ice

1337
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 2: Cold Case is available wherever you get podcasts.

1338
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, however you get your podcasts.

1339
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 2: Awesome and where can people find you on social media?

1340
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 3: I am Madison underscore McGee if you wanna tell me

1341
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 3: that this was great and that you're not mad about

1342
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 3: anything I just said, and then the podcast is just

1343
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 3: ice cold case. But I'm Madison underscore megee on literally everything.

1344
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 2: Awesome and McGee is mcg h e e yes, yes, perfect,

1345
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me yes, and that

1346
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 2: concludes our Madison interview. So, Megan, do you think that

1347
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 2: if like you have, I fel like your mom was

1348
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: in a story and you were like a family legacy,

1349
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: what do you I don't know what you call it,

1350
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 2: but would you join.

1351
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, legacy? I think I would. Yeah, I absolutely If

1352
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: I had a mom who was like, I'm a whatever

1353
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: a Kappa, I'd be like, so am I you know,

1354
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 1: I just didn't have a mom that was like that,

1355
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: so I didn't. It didn't really even occur to me.

1356
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, if I if I had some ties to one,

1357
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: I think I'd be more more prone to joining them.

1358
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1359
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: I was in this very weird class at my school

1360
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: at a very weird time where like it was like

1361
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: seven of the coolest girls and I'm including myself. We

1362
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: just weren't in one, and so we were fine. But

1363
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: and the class above us and below is like all

1364
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: the cool girls are in sororities. I don't know, our

1365
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: class missed a beat, but we all lived together and

1366
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: had our own miniagers sorority.

1367
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 2: And I feel like your life is a sorority, but

1368
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 2: just with boys.

1369
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 1: Yeah it used to be all girls, but now my

1370
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: life is a fraternity of boys. But yeah, yeah, I'm

1371
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: in my own sorority. I guess.

1372
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 2: I feel like I alternate between being like so into

1373
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 2: wanting to be a part of a group and like

1374
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 2: wanting to be surrounded by women, and then getting so

1375
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 2: exhausted with just like group dynamics and personality management, you know, like.

1376
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 1: You can't manage personalities.

1377
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,879
Speaker 2: I love it so much, and then once there's conflict,

1378
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh I don't like it anymore, send me away.

1379
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 1: Not at all, Nope, not at all. And yeah, I mean,

1380
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: you know it helps to be blacked out all the time.

1381
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah I should try it for college. Not now,

1382
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: but anyway, Yeah, I would definitely join. I my mom joined.

1383
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I would join one. I would

1384
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: totally join one. I would want to be a part

1385
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 2: of a community that you know I miss like I

1386
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 2: have a void in my heart where church used to be.

1387
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:50,839
Speaker 2: Even though I didn't even really feel like I belonged,

1388
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 2: I still feel like I always want that like community

1389
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 2: where you know you can go. And if I was

1390
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 2: presented with the opportunittunity, I would for sure, Yeah, I

1391
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,919
Speaker 2: would do it amazing, But I never would to real college,

1392
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 2: so I can't. I couldn't.

1393
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 1: That'd be a fun like Billy Madison style movie. You

1394
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,679
Speaker 1: go back to college and join a sorority.

1395
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 2: Isn't that Animal House?

1396
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: Oh? Or no, the House Bunny?

1397
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, House Bunny.

1398
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 1: But the House Bunny she's just joining the sorority. She's not.

1399
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: I mean, she's becoming a house mom. She's not joining

1400
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: the sorority. It'd be funny if you join the sorority.

1401
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 2: Not Animal House. But I do feel like there was

1402
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 2: a more boy centric movie that was about that that

1403
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 2: was later than Animal House. I don't remember what it's called.

1404
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 2: Someone's gonna DM me about it, Yeah, but that you

1405
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,560
Speaker 2: should write it. I'm not gonna write it.

1406
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll get right on.

1407
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: I'll get right on that. Thank you guys so much

1408
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: for spending another week with us. We can't wait to

1409
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: see you here again next week, and as all is,

1410
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: remember to follow your gut watch out for red flax.

1411
01:09:51,640 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 2: I never Ever trust Me Bye. Trust Me as produced

1412
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 2: by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delemator.

1413
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1414
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1415
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1416
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:14,639
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1417
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1418
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1419
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1420
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1421
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.