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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and nothing to Stefan

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Speaker 1: never told you production. If I hire Radio and happy

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Speaker 1: Revenge of the Five. If you thought One Star Wars

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Speaker 1: Holiday was too much about you are, Yes, I love

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Speaker 1: Revenge of the Fifth, like the name right. I do

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Speaker 1: feel bad because today is also, as this episode comes out,

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Speaker 1: if you're listening to it when it comes out, my

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Speaker 1: little brother's birthday. And I'm ashamed to admit I thought

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Speaker 1: about Revenge of the Five first and then his birthday.

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Speaker 1: But to be fair, I once asked him. This was

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Speaker 1: years and years ago, but I once asked him name

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Speaker 1: my birthday? But when is it? He said March seven,

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Speaker 1: So that's way, way, way off. It's not even close.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I know any of my siblings. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's not true. I know two of my siblings birthday,

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Speaker 1: so the third one. Sorry. I don't even know my

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Speaker 1: parents birthday really well, my dad's I finally figured it out,

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Speaker 1: and my mom's with hers with four days after mine.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not really good with dates either. I am

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Speaker 1: excellent with dates. Why it is one of my weird things.

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Speaker 1: In fact, there's that weird moment, like I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people use Facebook for birthdays, but I usually

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Speaker 1: just kind of remember there are friends I haven't talked

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Speaker 1: to and forever, and I'll be like, oh, her birthday

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Speaker 1: is today? Should I? And then I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: weird if you haven't talked in a long time, right.

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Speaker 1: I have one person who I kind of mentioned her

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Speaker 1: a little bit when we were talking about the Girl Games,

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Speaker 1: essentially the board games that we had because she was

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Speaker 1: the rich friend I had who had all the games.

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Speaker 1: I know her birthday, I know it so well, and

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Speaker 1: I just I don't know why, and I haven't talked

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Speaker 1: to her in twenty years. Sometimes those things just get Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like Revenge of the Fifth is a relative

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Speaker 1: savely newer because I remember May the fourth being around

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Speaker 1: and I was in high school probably before that. But

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Speaker 1: Revenge of the Five I've only really become aware of

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Speaker 1: in the past few years. I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: was just missing it like the last four years. I

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Speaker 1: think I figured out what it was. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: right there though, it is. But think about them for

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Speaker 1: me is like in sincs it's gonna be my That's

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Speaker 1: the meme that I've seen, the type of thing. Those

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Speaker 1: are the things that Sinco de Mayo, which is a

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Speaker 1: complete excuse for white people to get real trashed. Uh,

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Speaker 1: celebrating something that's not theirs something. Well, today we are

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Speaker 1: celebrating something different. Um all right, yes, Um, so this

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Speaker 1: is a feminist movie. Wednesday two be on the holiday.

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Speaker 1: This has been a very busy week for me as

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Speaker 1: a star. So you can see the past up said

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Speaker 1: we did on the prequel trilogy, because these are a

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Speaker 1: bit than our normal feminist movie Fridays, where we pick

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Speaker 1: one movie and do like themes and plot analysis. This

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Speaker 1: is much more like kind of focusing in on one character. However,

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Speaker 1: and you might remember that we did not one, but

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Speaker 1: two episodes on Princess Leia already and they were quite long,

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Speaker 1: both of them, so you can go find those if

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Speaker 1: you want. We are going to talk about some some

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Speaker 1: more about her in this but we're also going to

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Speaker 1: talk about two women you might not be familiar with

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Speaker 1: who were vital to making these movies, and I'm really

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Speaker 1: really excited to talk about them. Um. We've also done

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Speaker 1: an episode on We've done a lot of episodes on

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Speaker 1: Star Wars. We've done one of the viewing of it,

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Speaker 1: we've done one on the feminism of Star Wars. We're

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Speaker 1: going to do one on the sequel trilogy. They're out there.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about getting Holly on here to talk

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Speaker 1: about Rogue one, which I think would be fantastic. I oh,

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Speaker 1: I totally think we should. I think I could just

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Speaker 1: sit back and drink while you'all do that. Except for

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Speaker 1: when I yelled XP at you for not telling me

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Speaker 1: and warning me of things of the ending, Yes, Holly

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Speaker 1: would give me a stern talking to as well. Actually

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Speaker 1: it was complete, it was nothing malicious behind it. I

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Speaker 1: does get in my own head sometimes and don't realize

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Speaker 1: people don't know everything about Star Wars, as well as

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Speaker 1: the fact that I am not about tragedy, and so

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Speaker 1: I have to get heads up and as when most people,

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Speaker 1: normal people would be like I don't like spoilers, I'm like, god,

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Speaker 1: I need all of them. Yes, well, I've learned my

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Speaker 1: lesson and I'm trying to do better. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: do better. If you've done well, you've done well. This

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Speaker 1: was the one big unforgivable, one unforgivable. Now we'll see,

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Speaker 1: well the unforgivable part doesn't have it for now usually,

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Speaker 1: But all right, I'm just saying right now, it seems

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Speaker 1: like it's gonna be far, far, far far away, like

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Speaker 1: a certain galaxy. I think you did. They're You can

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Speaker 1: also listen to me and Holly talk about the Empire

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Speaker 1: strikes back on movie Crush, which if you want to

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Speaker 1: hear like the most beautiful passionate nerd them that you

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Speaker 1: might not understand. It's for you. Um, we're going to

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Speaker 1: do Return of the Jedi soon. I hope I've already

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Speaker 1: got my outline. It's ready, it's ready. I think the

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Speaker 1: host of that show, Chuck, is a little like he

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Speaker 1: remembers for He won't forget. He won't forget when we're

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Speaker 1: like Chuck, we're talking. Also, I forgot to bring up

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Speaker 1: this when we did the prequels, which I think is

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Speaker 1: actually a really good when we were talking about the

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Speaker 1: trauma and grooming of Anakin Skywalker to become Darth Vader.

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Speaker 1: Point is that a couple of years ago I was

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Speaker 1: at Dragon Con, which is this huge convention in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: and it was the panel of voice actors in this

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Speaker 1: young boy I would say like four years old, came

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Speaker 1: up during the Q and A portion and he asked,

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Speaker 1: why is Darth Vade her and we were all like, oh,

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Speaker 1: how do we explain like evil and temptation and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff to this kid. And I brought this up

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Speaker 1: to my co host Lauren on Saber Podcast and she

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Speaker 1: said something like he is the result of many systems

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Speaker 1: of society failing so hard, which I really appreciated. It

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that's it, So let's get into this episode.

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Speaker 1: But again, we've done a lot on Princess Lea. We've

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about Star Wars, so very brief discussion

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Speaker 1: of the plot. Essentially, the evil Empire is terrorizing a

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Speaker 1: galaxy far far away, and a young human female, Princess

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Speaker 1: Leah played by Carrie Fisher, is one of the political

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Speaker 1: and military leaders of the ragtag group fighting against it,

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Speaker 1: called Rebellion or the Alliance, falls in love with a smuggler.

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Speaker 1: Learned she has a twin brother who happens to be

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Speaker 1: your best friend and they were separated at birth. Discovers

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Speaker 1: her father's actually Vader, a man who tortured her, destroyed

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Speaker 1: her homeworld, and it's the right hand of the fascist

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Speaker 1: entity she's been fighting her whole life. Oh, and she

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Speaker 1: can use the forest, which is this power that you

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Speaker 1: can connect to her cause is victorious, the rebellion, the

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Speaker 1: Alliances victorious. She gets the guy, she's reunited with her twin,

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Speaker 1: happy ending if you do not go beyond that very

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Speaker 1: end of return the Jedi happy ending. So the first

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Speaker 1: installment came out in nineteen seventy seven. Star Wars later

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Speaker 1: renamed Episode four a New Hope, which confused me a lot,

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Speaker 1: followed by episode five, The Empire Strikes Back in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty and Episode six, and then Return of the Jedi

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Speaker 1: in nineteen three. And these films had a huge cultural

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Speaker 1: impact you can tell sometimes called the American myth. If

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Speaker 1: you want to know more about just how enormous of

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Speaker 1: an impact they had, again, check out our layout episodes,

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Speaker 1: both of them, all of them, any of them. It's

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Speaker 1: not exaggerating to say they change our cultural landscape and

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Speaker 1: film forever. And Annie, I know you're already going through

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Speaker 1: all of your lists of how many times Star Wars

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Speaker 1: is referenced, And I now have that in the back

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Speaker 1: of my head all the time too. Yes, I keep

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Speaker 1: every day of how many times I encounter a Star

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Speaker 1: Wars reference that I'm not looking for. It's usually between fifteen.

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Speaker 1: I want to say, I just recently watched a movie

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Speaker 1: just may not long ago. There was a reference and

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Speaker 1: I was like, what what I know that reference? I

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Speaker 1: will say since now I've seen the movie, going back,

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Speaker 1: now that I know that reference, like, oh, there it is,

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Speaker 1: I get it. So Leah Organa's impact was obviously massive too,

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Speaker 1: especially for girls and women, an impact that is still

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Speaker 1: felt and seeing to this day. I see those pictures

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Speaker 1: of Carrie Fisher and I'm just like, yes, give me

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Speaker 1: more of that. I look at the signs of pretty

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Speaker 1: much any woman's protests. Again, yes, you see her as

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Speaker 1: the like center of rebellion. There are very very few

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Speaker 1: other iconic women characters that have had the lasting impact

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Speaker 1: even close to her, So yes, for sure, um and

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Speaker 1: she has appeared in numerous books, comics, video games, and

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Speaker 1: television shows. Leah was the only character mentioned by name

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Speaker 1: in the opening crawl, so that yeah, yellow text iconic

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Speaker 1: Kilo texts going up. She's the only one in episode four,

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Speaker 1: and it's almost immediately established that despite her young age,

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Speaker 1: she is a trouble maker for the Evil Empire. She

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Speaker 1: sets the action of the original trilogy and motion she

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Speaker 1: says death in the eyes and does not flinch. In fact,

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Speaker 1: because some witty comments. She regularly does not bend to

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Speaker 1: mail expectations, especially those expectations around women in the film.

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Speaker 1: Vader expects her to give under torture. She doesn't. Tarkan

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Speaker 1: expects her to break when threatening her planet, and she doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Luke expects her to be a damsel in distress demure,

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Speaker 1: and she isn't. Hahn expects her to fall for his

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Speaker 1: charm and take his lead. Nope, she doesn't. And as

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Speaker 1: the audience, we didn't expect this young, petite princess to

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Speaker 1: be the leader against the fight against the Empire, especially

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Speaker 1: when these movies came out, and she is. She is

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Speaker 1: the leader. She is the one that is getting stuff done,

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Speaker 1: loss after loss. She soldiers on. She is already the

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Speaker 1: hero when we meet her, respected by those around her,

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Speaker 1: and Empire strikes back. Right from the start, we see

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Speaker 1: her commanding troops and overseeing the evacuation of the entire

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Speaker 1: rebellion as the Empire the forces that tortured her destroyed

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Speaker 1: her home planet attack. And when I was a kid

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Speaker 1: that she really stuck out to me that there was

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Speaker 1: this kind of small woman who was commanding mostly men

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Speaker 1: and they were just like okay, Yep, we trust you.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna do what you say. She is a part

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Speaker 1: of the planning and action throughout these films. She's determined

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Speaker 1: to do everything she can for the cause that she

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Speaker 1: believes in, and all these things while still remaining feminine.

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Speaker 1: When these films came out, it was the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, Women's Live. You had Roe v Wade and

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Speaker 1: then the backlash to all of that. Women weren't allowed

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Speaker 1: to serve in the U. S. Army when this came out.

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Speaker 1: And she is for the most part the only woman

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Speaker 1: in these films, but she speaks her mind, refuses to

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Speaker 1: back down. She rises above being the token woman. And

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Speaker 1: I will say Carrie Fisher was a huge part of that.

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Speaker 1: You can see our Princess lay episodes, but she was

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Speaker 1: really like, I know, I think the character would do this.

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Speaker 1: It's like this, let me rewrite stuff for you. So

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Speaker 1: she was really key. Notably, mon Mathma, one of the

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Speaker 1: only other women in the original trilogy, is also a

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Speaker 1: leader of the Alliance, but you only see her very briefly.

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Speaker 1: She does pop up and other Star Wars properties, but

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Speaker 1: in this original trilogy you see her for like a

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Speaker 1: minute maybe, so believe it or not, there were a

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Speaker 1: few aspects of lay his character I did not get

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Speaker 1: to touch on and our two part of her episode

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Speaker 1: on her. Sorry, I don't limit her, y'all. She limited

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Speaker 1: me on this one too. I have even more thoughts,

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Speaker 1: but most of these I've had reading the entire yeah,

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Speaker 1: the entire current comics series. But there are elements that

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Speaker 1: are present in the film that you just get to

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Speaker 1: explore more in the comics, and I thought it could

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Speaker 1: be interesting to do some comparisons now that we've talked

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Speaker 1: about pad Me Amidala in the prequel trilogy feminist movie Friday,

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Speaker 1: who is Leia's biological mother, right, So one aspect that

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Speaker 1: they explored in the comics is this idea of ruthlessness

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Speaker 1: or what it takes for Leia to lead the rebellion

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Speaker 1: and rebellion that is small and struggling and constantly on

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Speaker 1: the verge of being destroyed. There's a storyline where Leia's

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Speaker 1: chooses to sacrifice look and yes, and he has told

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Speaker 1: me this vision a lot. She has a lot of

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Speaker 1: feelings on this that they don't have the Speeders despair

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Speaker 1: in order to kill Darth Vader. She herself is willing

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Speaker 1: to die if it kills him too. Han is appalled

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Speaker 1: and yes he's the one with the emotions in this

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Speaker 1: part right and goes to save Luke and Leia later

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Speaker 1: decides come back for them. Yeah, so I do have

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Speaker 1: a lot of thought about this, she does. There are

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Speaker 1: a couple of things going on here. Obviously, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of reasons Leia would want revenge against Darth Vader,

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Speaker 1: and she is still dealing with a massive trauma. On

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Speaker 1: top of that, she's very young and trying to lead rebellion.

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Speaker 1: This is constantly on the brink of extinction, so she

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Speaker 1: has to make these type calls. Leiah is all about

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Speaker 1: the cause. We talked about that how it's like Lucas

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Speaker 1: playing personal checkers and she's playing like galactic chess. She's

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Speaker 1: much more thinking about this bigger picture of how to

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Speaker 1: defeat the Empire, and Lucas more on this personal path

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Speaker 1: of discovery. But also this whole thing is a part

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Speaker 1: of her art, learning to accept those softer parts of herself,

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Speaker 1: allowing herself to be more open and caring to go

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Speaker 1: after what she wants or even admit she has personal needs,

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Speaker 1: and that that is okay, As I'm watching the rebels,

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Speaker 1: and she's introduced is just a dick the entire time

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Speaker 1: to her. So I guess I'm pushing that button on

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Speaker 1: purpose to make that whole idea. Yeah, I feel like

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Speaker 1: Eztra in that case, they're trying very hard to be

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Speaker 1: like he's got a lot to learn. Okay, Well, going

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Speaker 1: back to the story arc. In that same storyline, Luke

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Speaker 1: crashed the ships into invaders in an attempt to kill him,

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Speaker 1: so well, he's willing to die, and Leah saved him

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Speaker 1: from imperial capture and bounty hunters on more than one occasion.

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Speaker 1: We know this, and in the comics we see Leam

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Speaker 1: making alliances with several strong women who are sometimes at

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Speaker 1: best morally ambiguous, like Afra just does. She has a

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Speaker 1: nemesis who was a woman, and she connects with a

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Speaker 1: woman struggling with her people, only to be betrayed and

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Speaker 1: the alliance losing a devastating amount because of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was a real bummer because she was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm connecting to you. I also feel this way when

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Speaker 1: I was a prisoners the bad on him betrayed every time. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: in that woman's storyline was complicated as well, not to

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Speaker 1: flatten it. She had a lot she was dealing with

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Speaker 1: two and east. I forgot there's a whole part in

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Speaker 1: the comics. So she's looking up at nice sky and

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Speaker 1: she can still see all her on because the explosion.

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Speaker 1: The light from the explosion hasn't reached her so much trauma.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of other instances showcasing the darker

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Speaker 1: side of Leiah as a leader, things that seem cruel

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Speaker 1: or ruthless to the other characters in the story, which

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Speaker 1: could open up a whole discussion on how we view

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Speaker 1: women leaders, because I think a man doing the same

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Speaker 1: things might not be I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that they would be seen the same way. They might

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Speaker 1: be applauded as a man making a tough call, whereas

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Speaker 1: with a woman it might be she's a cruel ice queen. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. And also, to be clear, I have

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Speaker 1: read all these comics, some of them twice, but generally

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Speaker 1: most of them once, so it's a lot of information

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Speaker 1: to take into Samantha. In general. I do appreciate that

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Speaker 1: Leia doesn't shy away from her emotions, including less feminine

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Speaker 1: coded ones like anger, but also she doesn't shy away

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Speaker 1: from the feminine coated ones. Well, really mastering that emotionless mask.

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Speaker 1: It's really good at that too. Something else that is

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Speaker 1: exploring the comics are all always lay a shape at

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Speaker 1: the responsibilities of being a princess, and how the press

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Speaker 1: always reduced her to that label, no matter what she did,

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Speaker 1: the wardrobe, the hair, the expectations. She once said to

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Speaker 1: one of her aunts, who was teaching her etiquette, quote,

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Speaker 1: being a princess had to be about more than silently

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Speaker 1: doing one's duty. And I'm pretty sure the aunt said

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Speaker 1: something like, Nope, that's almost all it is. Um. She

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Speaker 1: was adopted as a baby and raised as a princess

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Speaker 1: by bail and Brea or Gone how to keep her

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Speaker 1: hidden from the Emperor and Darth Vader. From a young age,

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Speaker 1: she rebelled and protested against things she saw us unjust,

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Speaker 1: as well as showed an aptitude for politics like her

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Speaker 1: biological mother. She became a senator as a teenager. She

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Speaker 1: received training in self defense and marksmanship, and started working

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Speaker 1: with rebellion at a young age. She's a tomboy in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways and expressed a fear at being

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Speaker 1: married off. That was an interesting thing, I thought they

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Speaker 1: explored a fear that caused her to run away more

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Speaker 1: than once. Leah did not fit them bold of a

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Speaker 1: princess that when we first see her, she looks very

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Speaker 1: much the part of a princess. And also just a note,

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Speaker 1: I know this is confusing, and when Disney bought Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: there's now two. There's like the old cannon which is

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Speaker 1: Legends and abandoned, and then new cannon, which is official

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Speaker 1: Disney cannon. They still use some stuff from the Legends

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Speaker 1: canon in the Disney canon, but it can get really confusing.

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Speaker 1: But this is mostly Disney can Okay, then in some

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Speaker 1: exce and could be a whole episode on its own

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Speaker 1: about how young women were and are treated in the

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Speaker 1: entertainment industry and the impacts of the treatment when it

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Speaker 1: comes to things like drug abuse and mental health and

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Speaker 1: how we take that seriously or don't and often outright

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Speaker 1: mockt and women. Um and we've seen that and we

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Speaker 1: kind of talked about that about the Women of the

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Speaker 1: nineties episodes. But yeah, that should be a old conversation

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Speaker 1: because we do see that in reference to not only

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Speaker 1: Carrie for sure, but she was mocked I think more

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Speaker 1: than even Mark Hamill and as you told me, the

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Speaker 1: things that were happening on the holiday special that made

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Speaker 1: it obvious, Yeah, some people were altered. Yeah, well there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's just a lot of when she's been she's written

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Speaker 1: about her experience, and there's just a lot of instances

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Speaker 1: where you're like, wow, this is not a good situation

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Speaker 1: for a really young woman to be. So I definitely

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Speaker 1: think that's something we could revisit, But for now, we

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about some women who worked behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes on these movies. But first we're gonna pause for

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Speaker 1: quicklyick for work from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank

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Speaker 1: you sponsored. Since we have talked about Leo a lot

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Speaker 1: in the past, even though I could go on and

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Speaker 1: on and on, clearly we thought we would highlight some

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Speaker 1: important contributions women made to these movies you may not

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Speaker 1: know about, starting with Marshall Lucas. You may have heard

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Speaker 1: people say Star Wars was saved in the edit and

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Speaker 1: they're talking about a New Hope episode four. One of

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Speaker 1: those editors was Marshall Lucas. George Lucas's ex wife. Marcia

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Speaker 1: was born in California in She studied chemistry in college,

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Speaker 1: but through her work as a film librarian, she found

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Speaker 1: a love of film editing. After the previous editor left

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Speaker 1: George lucas nineteen three film American Graffiti, he was really

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Speaker 1: struggling with the structure of it. Marcia, who he had

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Speaker 1: worked with previously they had gotten married in nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: stepped in and got to work editing scenes, combining them,

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Speaker 1: doing away with some altogether. The original run time was

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Speaker 1: three and a half hours long. She got it down

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Speaker 1: to an hour and fifteen minutes. Yeah. The finished product

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Speaker 1: was critically acclaimed and resonated with audiences. Marcia received an

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Speaker 1: Oscar nomination for her editing on that Martin Scorsese took notice,

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Speaker 1: and Marcia works with him on three films Alice Doesn't

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Speaker 1: Live Here Anymore, Taxi Driver, and New York New York

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Speaker 1: Right But First, George Lucas did not hire Marcia to

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Speaker 1: work on Star Wars, but he eventually asked her to

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Speaker 1: replace one of the male editors, and she also helped

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Speaker 1: with story elements as George was writing. She was the

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Speaker 1: one to suggest that ei Wan Kenoby died at the

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Speaker 1: hands of Darth Vader, which is hugely emotional and impactful

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Speaker 1: moment for the audience, and obviously for Luke, although he

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Speaker 1: does move on pretty quickly. She resembled the climactic Death

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Speaker 1: Star Trench sequence so that it built tension and provided

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Speaker 1: a satisfying conclusion and one of the most iconic and

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Speaker 1: well loved moments of the film. I definitely knew about

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Speaker 1: that before I watched it um and in the original

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Speaker 1: version which you can still find, Luke took two runs

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Speaker 1: at the trench and it was too long and not

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Speaker 1: very satisfying. She almost completely reordered it. For her work

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Speaker 1: on this film, she won the nineteen seventy eight Best

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Speaker 1: Editing Academy Award along with two other editors, and Marshall

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Speaker 1: was sometimes called George Lucas's quote secret weapon. In a

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven interview, George said, I was struggling with

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Speaker 1: the problem that I had this sort of climactic scene

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Speaker 1: that had no climax. About two thirds of the way

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Speaker 1: through the film. I had another problem, the fact there

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Speaker 1: was no real threat in the Desk Star. The villains

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Speaker 1: were like tin pins. You get into a gun fight

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Speaker 1: with them and then they just got knocked over. As

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Speaker 1: I originally wrote it, ben Kenobi Invader had a sword

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Speaker 1: fight and Ben hits a door and the door slams

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Speaker 1: closed and they all run away in vaders lift standing

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Speaker 1: there with egg oil on his face. This was dumb.

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Speaker 1: They run into the desk Star and they sort of

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Speaker 1: take over everything and then they run back. It totally

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Speaker 1: diminished any impact that Death Star I had. Anyway, I

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Speaker 1: was rewriting, I was struggling with the plot problem when

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Speaker 1: my wife suggested that I kill off Ben, which she

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Speaker 1: thought was a pretty outrageous idea, and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: that is an interesting idea, and I had been thinking

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Speaker 1: about it. Her first idea was to have three po

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Speaker 1: get shot, and I said impossible, because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: start and end the film with the robots. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to film to really be about the robots and have

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Speaker 1: the theme be framework for the rest of the movie.

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Speaker 1: But then the more I thought about Ben getting killed,

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Speaker 1: the more I like the idea because one, it made

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Speaker 1: the threat of Vader greater, and that tied in with

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Speaker 1: the Force and the fact that he could use the

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Speaker 1: dark side. Both Alec Guinness and I came up with

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Speaker 1: the thing of having been go on afterwards as part

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Speaker 1: of the Force all about them robots. So after that

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Speaker 1: she kind of Scale Back for a minute, providing some

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Speaker 1: uncredited editing for movies like More American Graffiti and The

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Speaker 1: Empire Strikes Back, and was one of the three official

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Speaker 1: editors on the Return of the Jedi, where she edited

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Speaker 1: the deaths of Yoda and Darth Vader slash Annika Skywalker,

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Speaker 1: two of the most emotional moments of the film. It

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Speaker 1: really was um. The story goes that after watching a

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Speaker 1: screening Raiders of the Lost Art, she told director Steven

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Speaker 1: Spielberg that the ending didn't have any emotional resolution, and

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Speaker 1: Spielberg agreed with her and shot an additional scene so

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Speaker 1: that Indiana Jones was reunited with Marion raven Wood. Apparently

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Speaker 1: in the original ending, she just kind of disappeared, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: sinse and part due to the success of things like

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Speaker 1: Star Wars in Indiana Jones, Marcia and George's relationship deteriorated

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Speaker 1: and Marcia asked for a divorce in nineteen eighty two

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Speaker 1: that was announced in nineteen eighty three. After that, she

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Speaker 1: almost entirely dropped off the radar, in her words, to

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Speaker 1: stop and smell the flowers. That basically she'd worked so

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Speaker 1: hard for so long, and she had the money and time,

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Speaker 1: so why not do you all thing? Yeah, exactly. She

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Speaker 1: hardly did any interviews. She she's barely credited on any

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Speaker 1: projects after that, and her work on things like Star

429
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: Wars is it talked about too often. Michael Kaminski's two

430
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: thousand and eight work The Secret History of Star Wars

431
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: has a whole chapter on her. He wrote Marcia, along

432
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: with many of George's friends, critiqued which characters worked, which

433
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: ones didn't, which scenes were good, and Lucas composed the

434
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: script In this way. Marcia was always critical of Star Wars,

435
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: but she was one of the few people Lucas listened

436
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: to carefully, knowing she had a skill for carving out

437
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: strong characters. Often, she was a voice of reason, giving

438
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: him the bad news he's secretly suspected. I'm hard, she said,

439
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: but I only tell him what he already knows. She

440
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: kept her husband down to earth and reminded him of

441
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: the need to have an emotional through line in the film.

442
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: In Marsha said in an interview, I love editing, and

443
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm real gifted at it. I have an innate ability

444
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: to take good material and make it better, or take

445
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: bad material and make it fair. I'm compulsive about it,

446
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: and um, I have worked many years as an editor.

447
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 1: Let me tell you, you you really can do a lot

448
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: in the editing. It can be very, very creative. And

449
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: I think for me that was a misconception I had

450
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: was that it was kind of cold and clinical. Uh

451
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: and just like cut here where there's a mistake. But

452
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: there's so much more to it than that. In two

453
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: thousand five, Mark Campbell, who plays Luke Skywalker, told film

454
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: Freak Central you can see a huge difference in the

455
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: films George Lucas had done since the divorce with Marcia

456
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 1: and in Tin And that Threw does. In five interview,

457
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: he said she was really the warmth and the heart

458
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: of those films, a good person. He could talk up

459
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: to you, bounce ideas off of. He would tell him

460
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: when he was wrong. And that is one of the

461
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: biggest critiques people have of the Pupils, that they needed

462
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: an editor. So I want to tell George Lucas know

463
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: us a bad idea. According to Hamil, I know for

464
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: a fact that Marsha Lucas was responsible for convincing him

465
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: to keep that little kiss for Luck before Carrie Fisher

466
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: and Ice went across the chasm, in the first film, Oh,

467
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: I don't like it. People laugh in the previews, and

468
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: she said, George, they're laughing because it's so sweet and unexpected.

469
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: And her influence was such that if she wanted to

470
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: keep it in. It was in when the Little Mouse

471
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: robot comes up when Harrison and I are delivering Chewbacca

472
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: to the prison and he roars at it and it

473
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: screams sort of and runs away. George wanted to cut that,

474
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: and Marcia insisted he'd keep it. I like that part, yeah,

475
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: And Kaminski wrote quote she warranted, George, if the audience

476
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: doesn't cheer when Han Solo comes in at the last

477
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: second in the Millennium falcom to help Luke when he's

478
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: being chased by Darth Vader, the picture doesn't work. It worked,

479
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: and in a rare interview, Marcia said, I was the

480
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: more emotional person who came from the heart, and George

481
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: was the more collectual and visual, and I thought that

482
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: provided a nice balance. But George would never acknowledge that

483
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: to me. I think he resented by criticisms, felt that

484
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: all I ever did was put him down, and in

485
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: his mind, I always stay the stupid Valley girl. He

486
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: never felt I had any talent. He never felt I

487
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: was very smart, and he never gave me much credit.

488
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: And when we were finishing Jedi, George told me he

489
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: thought I was a pretty good editor. In the sixteen

490
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: years of our being together, I think that was the

491
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: only time he complimented be Yeah, she needed to leave.

492
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: And remember she was editing at a time when there

493
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: were very few women working in that industry, a gap

494
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: that exists to this day. Of the top two fifty

495
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: domestic grossing films of the film editors working on them

496
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: were women. I couldn't find numbers specifically from nine, but

497
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: I would imagine they were lower than Some people argue

498
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: that Marsha's impact is overstated. It's Star Wars. Of course

499
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: people argue about it, but you can't deny she was

500
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: key and an influential element in these films that made

501
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 1: cinematic history. I mean, if she's the one that reordered

502
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: the Death Star trench, that's right. If that, oh my gosh,

503
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 1: there is someone else who wanted to talk about behind

504
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: the scenes. The first wee one more break for word

505
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: from her sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Yeah,

506
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: now let's talk about Lee Brackett, the Queen of the

507
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: Space Opera and sometimes referred to as the first science

508
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: section author to succeed in Hollywood. So Brackett was born

509
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: in California in nineteen fifteen. Her father, who was an

510
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: aspiring writer, actually died during the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic,

511
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: and Brackett did become a writer in nineteen thirty nine,

512
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: and she joined the Los Angeles Science Fiction Society. In

513
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: nineteen forty she published Martian Quest, her first story. Over

514
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: the next few years, she published several stories in science

515
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: fiction magazines, and she wrote Detect the Stories Too, and

516
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: her first novel nineteen forty four, No Good from a Corpse.

517
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: No Good from a Corpse, was also well received, and

518
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: Brackett was asked to work alongside William Faulkner and Jules

519
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: Fostman on the screenplay of the nineteen forty six film

520
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: The Big Sleep. Apparently Howard Hawks had directed it, told

521
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: his assistant to call this guy Bracket, and later praised

522
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: she writes good, she writes like a man, thanks Um,

523
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: and she and her friend Ray Bradberry published the novella

524
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: Laurela of the Red Mess in nineteen forty six. By

525
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: this point she started publishing novel link science fiction and

526
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: magazines over ten In the next decade or so, she

527
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: was still writing mysteries and added westerns into the next

528
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: She got screenwriting credit on several projects like nine nine

529
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: Rio Bravo in nineteen seventy three Is The Long Goodbye.

530
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: Some of her own works were adapted for television. Of note,

531
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: a lot of her sci fi space opera work was

532
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: ridiculed for being lighter takes on sci fi with these

533
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: elements of romance, often called pulpy, and in fact that

534
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: nickname the Queen of Space Opera was largely seen as

535
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: a bad thing. Reminder, Star Wars is labeled as a

536
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: space opera, so this is another example of when a

537
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: woman does something, it's frivolous and worthless. When a man

538
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: does it, it's genius, groundbreaking and award worthy every time

539
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: every time. But okay, we're talking about Star Wars. After

540
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: the success of a New Hope and wanting to avoid

541
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: all the stress working on it caused him, George Lucas

542
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: wanted to ask someone else to write the script for

543
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: the sequel. Plus he was super busy with Industrial Light

544
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: Magic building lucasfilm, and he was paying for it out

545
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: of pocket, so why not? I I've never been able

546
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: to confirm this completely, but I think Holiday Special might

547
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: have something to do with that. It was like, never

548
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: again will a company? Will I be behold into a studio?

549
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: I'm paying for this myself. Technically, The Empire Strikes Back

550
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: is an independent film. Oh interesting. Yeah. He had some

551
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: ideas but no real plot in mind. He tapped the

552
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: Brackett to write it. Lucas and Brackett met several times

553
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: to nail down a very basic plot. A lot of

554
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: it made it into the film. Brackett turned in the

555
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: first early draft for The Empire Strikes Back. While there

556
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: were elements that Lucas liked, there were several that he

557
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: wanted to rework. Unfortunately, Brackett died a breast cancer in

558
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: just a few weeks after she turned in this early draft,

559
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: and Lucas tried his hand at a few drafts that

560
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: were refined by Lawrence Kasten. Her draft and the potential

561
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: of what it would have become it had the potential

562
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: to be come is sometimes referred to as the lost

563
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: version of The Empire Strikes Back or the version you

564
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: never saw. You can find the whole draft online, though

565
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: complete with handwritten note. A fan site called star Wars

566
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: with z dot com acquired the so called Holy Grail

567
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: in and scanned and uploaded it. I know you've read it.

568
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: What do you think it's weird? It's um, it's much more.

569
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: It's got much more fantasy, and it's much more on

570
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: like fantasy side, and it's got a lot more romance.

571
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: But it's beautiful and and it's beautifully written. Some of

572
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: the dialogue is pretty conky, but again, this is the

573
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: first draft, so I think it's probably very like here, Yeah,

574
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: it's recognizable, Like there are some scenes you're like, yeah,

575
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: this is the Empire strikes, but this is what it.

576
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: It ended up in the movie. Nice. So while a

577
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: lot of her story got rewarked or dropped, as you

578
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: can tell, some key elements remain in the film. The

579
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: Battle of hots in it, which was a risky decision

580
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: at the time to put your big budget fight scene

581
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: right at the top, as opposed to the end Luke's

582
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: and our two separation from han Leia Chwi and three EEO,

583
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: you've got Frog like Yoda the backpack by the time

584
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: he was named Buffy. I'm really glad to change that.

585
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: In fact, the whole sequence of Luke training on Dago

586
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: but remains pretty unchanged. Landos in it, the asteroid field chase,

587
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: the love triangle much much more focused on that in

588
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: the first draft, the introduction of the Emperor a city

589
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: in the clouds. The name Vestmin is in the script

590
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: as is Hot, though for different planets. C three p

591
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: O gets blasted apart, han To and Leah are used

592
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: as bait to lure Luke, and the climactic confrontation between

593
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: Loose Skywalker and Darth Vader where Vader tries to turn

594
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: Luke to the dark side. All those big story beats

595
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: are there, minus the I Am your Father thing and

596
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: loss of hand, though he does still fall through cloud

597
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: City to get away from Vader and is rescued by

598
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: the Millennium Falcon. However, even in this early draft, the

599
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: connection between Luke and Vader was integral to the plot.

600
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: Vada a menace hunting Luke throughout. The ending is kind

601
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: of similar too, with Luke and Lea watching on his

602
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: han and Jewlie fly off into space. Yes, that was

603
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: a long list, and those plot points for all they

604
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: even so, George Lucas doesn't really acknowledge it, or he

605
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: kind of does, but not in a good way. I

606
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: feel like maybe he's it's complicated with like unions, So

607
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, Okay. He once said, I didn't like

608
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: the first script, but I gave Lee credit because I

609
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: like her a lot. She was sick at the time

610
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: she wrote the script, and she really tried her best

611
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: during the story conferences I had with my thoughts weren't

612
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: fully formed and felt that her script went in a

613
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: completely different direction, which she is in the credits. Uh.

614
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: And he made sure that she was credited alongside Lawrence

615
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: Casten for writing and to do that because I don't

616
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: know the ins and out of this, but basically the

617
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: rules of the writer's getta America to make sure that

618
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: they gave her screenwriting credit. He intentionally didn't submit draft

619
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: of his own of the script, and I do. I mean,

620
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: I've read it and it is it's weird. It's one

621
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: of those things where it almost feels like a fan

622
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: fiction of because those beats are there, but it is

623
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: much more fantastical. So I don't know, Like I feel

624
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: like I get what are you's saying in terms of

625
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: it when in a completely different direction, but at the

626
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: same time, I'm like a good base. Yeah, it's a

627
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: lot of it is there, But okay, that's not to

628
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: say that some things didn't change from that early draft.

629
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 1: Her version did contain a lot more elements of fantasy

630
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: from the final script, like the big ice creatures in

631
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: the beginning they were like ghosts, they could like disappear,

632
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: and in some of the deleted scenes of The Empire

633
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: Strikes Back, you can really see some leftover elements from

634
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: her original idea, which I do maintain everything they deleted

635
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: from The Empire Strikes Back, thank god they did, but

636
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: there's an attack of the wampas the ice creatures they had.

637
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: The love triangle is more emphasized. In her version. Laya

638
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: was much more damnsely really a love interest, not much else.

639
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: So that's good that that changed, though some people pointed

640
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: out that this minimizing of way A manifested in the

641
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: gold Bikini scenes in Return of the Jedi cr Princess

642
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: Lea episodes for more on that, I don't really think

643
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: you can blame Bracket alone for that, though right absolutely

644
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 1: not so. The Empire is barely in it too, which

645
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: is funny given the title of the movie. But at

646
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: the time it was just Star Wars two, so so

647
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: that is Vader's character wasn't really fleshed out yet, didn't

648
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: have any discernible motivation other than revenge for the Death Star.

649
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: But he was much more active in attacking Luke with

650
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: the Force no matter where the galaxy he was, so

651
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: there's that. Yeah, he could like make him pass out

652
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: by just thinking it was weird. Luke manages to pull

653
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: his ship out in Degaba, so that whole like Doorg

654
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: or not, there is no try. He does wears in

655
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: the movie, he does not. He learns his ability to

656
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: summon force ghosts, so that's different, and he summons his father,

657
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: who is not Darth Vader. Not only that, but his

658
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: father's ghost reveals to him that he does have a

659
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: twin sister, but it is not like it is someone

660
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: named Nelleth who you never hear about again. Most likely

661
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: that was gonna be resolved in the third movie, but

662
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: the twin thing did end up getting used, just not

663
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: in this one. His father, along with Ben Night, lucas

664
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: a Jedi and tell him to face Vaders, so he

665
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: becomes a Jedi Knight in this one. And yeah, when

666
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: you think about it. The forced ghost element is a

667
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: pretty fantastical thing that ultimately survived to the final films.

668
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: I know Lucas said that he and Alt Guinness flushed up,

669
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: but I've never really thought about that as being kind

670
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, it's like a fantasy. And it seems

671
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: like she kind of introduced Kiber crystals too, which are

672
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: the crystals that power lightsabers and did go on to

673
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 1: become pretty important in other media and the Star Wars universe.

674
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: And she also introduced vaders Castle, which, for those of

675
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 1: you don't know, I mean Vader. He's got a castle.

676
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: I didn't know that he does on the planet where

677
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: most of far the lava planet where you off his

678
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: arms and legs. He's got a nice castle with lovely

679
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's volcano side home, volcano outside home. There

680
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: are no Boundy Hunters in her version, so there's no

681
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: Boba Fett, there's no Han getting frozen. Han is much

682
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: more a rebel soldier and much less a smuggler kind

683
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: of sticking around right. And then Lando's character is still

684
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: charming and charismatic, but he's much more lonely, a clone

685
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: leftover from the Clone Wars, which I feel like it's

686
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: like the rebel slash Clone wars. Yeah, h the cartoon.

687
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: He says to Han, quote it didn't seem strange to us,

688
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: but to see our own faces endlessly repeated in the

689
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: streets of our city, it gave us a sense of

690
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: oneness of belonging. Now, when every face is new and different,

691
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 1: I feel truly alone. He also still betrays Han. Bragett

692
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: described Lando as quote handsome, like a Rudolph Valentino who

693
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: was an actor in a sex symbol of his time. Yeah.

694
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: After her death, Bracket received several awards recognizing her impact

695
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 1: on science fiction genre, including a nineteen eighty one Hugo

696
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: Award for Best Dramatic Presentation for The Empire Strikes Back,

697
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: and she was inducted into the Science Fiction Hall of

698
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: Fame in fen and fun fact, the character's shaff Brackett

699
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: from the nineteen seventy film Halloween was named after her. Interesting. Yeah,

700
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: and she was also doing this at a time when

701
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: there weren't that many women working as screenwriter. Is not

702
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: to mention in the genre of science fiction, which was

703
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: much more seen as male dominated genre. Of the top

704
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: two in fifty domestic grossing films in only seventeen percent

705
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: of writers were women, and again I couldn't find numbers

706
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: from when she was doing this, but I imagine even lower,

707
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: even lower. So the Invis Strikes Back is one of

708
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: the most celebrated movies of all time. Is this your

709
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: favorite movie? Any h Right? So I thought all time,

710
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: all time, and it changed not only the cinematic landscape,

711
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: but people's ideas are out sequels and what they could accomplish.

712
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 1: I do hear this one and The Godfather too as

713
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: the better of the trilogies. Just put that out there. Uh,

714
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: so much of its iconic and we owe a lot

715
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: of that to Brackett obviously, and she only had one

716
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 1: crack at the draft. It's interesting to wonder what would

717
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: have happened. And I know that you when we first

718
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: watched the you made sure to go to the credits

719
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: to see her if our name was there. God, I

720
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: was so excited at first time you were. You were

721
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 1: so excited. Oh. I love sharing things that I love.

722
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, yeah, And I hope that you listeners

723
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: maybe have learned something new or that you have enjoyed

724
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: the celebratory episode for Revenge of the Five. And I

725
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: always love talking about this. Clearly, it's been a delight

726
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: and I love it too. It has been a delight. Yes, yes,

727
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: so happy May the fourth and drive into the fifth.

728
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: And remember, without these amazing women, both real and fictional,

729
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: we would not have had this piece of historic and

730
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: beloved entertainment. So their impact on generations of us and

731
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: particularly women and girls, truly cannot be overstated. It's true. Yes,

732
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: it's gonna be my id to do it. You had

733
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: to do it, I don't. So. Listeners, if you have

734
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: any thoughts about any of this or any suggestions, we

735
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 1: do take them. We have a list and we're always

736
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: happy to receive them. You can email us at Stuff Media,

737
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: mom Stuff That I Hurt Me You dot com. You

738
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram and Stuff I Never Told

739
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as

740
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks

741
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You the

742
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: protection about I Heart Radio. For more podcast I Heart Radio,

743
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: visit I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you

744
00:40:52,760 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. The mo