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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class A production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson

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Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. We talked about pelagra. We sure did,

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Speaker 1: I said in the episodes, I was not expecting or

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Speaker 1: planning for two did not know about all the stuff

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Speaker 1: that was involved in Italy. Of course, as we said

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Speaker 1: that there is is, and has been pelagora in parts

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Speaker 1: of the world besides the southern US and Italy, but

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Speaker 1: it became particular problem in those places and still today

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Speaker 1: places where especially people are living mostly on corn, a

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Speaker 1: lot of times corn that has been through well meaning

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Speaker 1: ways donated from the international community to places where there

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Speaker 1: is famine or unrest or war or whatever. Going to

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Speaker 1: talk about Tracy's frustration in this episode, and the frustration

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Speaker 1: is overly reductive Internet videos, Okay, because I watched several

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Speaker 1: videos about nichemalization, and several of them had this sort

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Speaker 1: of narrative of this is how the indigenous peoples of

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Speaker 1: the America's really all across the Americas. Some nuances to

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Speaker 1: how different nations and peoples did things, but like some

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Speaker 1: kind of treatment of the corn with alkaline water, or

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Speaker 1: ash or something that was making the nias and more bioavailable,

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Speaker 1: and then it would be like, but the colonizers thought

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Speaker 1: that was stupid and they didn't want to do it,

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Speaker 1: and that's why there was pelagra. And that's not really accurate, right,

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Speaker 1: because foods like hominy and masa masa arena, all things

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Speaker 1: that are made with with masa like those became foods

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Speaker 1: that the colonists were also eating, how many in particular

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Speaker 1: the poorest people were eating, and that continued to be

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Speaker 1: the case for centuries after colonization started. Like we said

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Speaker 1: in the episode, it is like there seems to be

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Speaker 1: a correlation between milling technologies, particularly the big determinator that

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Speaker 1: was patented in like nineteen oh two. There seems to

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Speaker 1: be a correlation between that and polagorates because now there

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Speaker 1: was a way to give corn a really long shelf

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Speaker 1: life that didn't involve nicheimalizing it that was more labor intensive. So, like,

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Speaker 1: the problem was not that colonizers were being picky about

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Speaker 1: indigenous food ways. The problem was capitalism exploiting people right

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Speaker 1: and trying to give the poorest people the cheapest, lowest

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Speaker 1: quality food possible as they're staple but I watched so

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Speaker 1: many videos that had that as the narrative that I

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Speaker 1: started to second guess myself. I was like, I really

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Speaker 1: thought that people were for sure eating harmony, and poor

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Speaker 1: people for sure eating harmony. I can't speak to Meso

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Speaker 1: America and South America, but like all over North America

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Speaker 1: at least, like, what's going on with this? And I

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Speaker 1: started looking through old recipe books to be like, am

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Speaker 1: I just am I misunderstanding something fundamental? And so now

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read to you from a nineteen twenty

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Speaker 1: four USDA Farmer's bulletin, okay, prepared in the Bureau of

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Speaker 1: Home Economics, a bureau that we have a whole episode on.

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Speaker 1: This is on from a Farmer's bulletin called Corn and

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Speaker 1: Its Uses for Food. And this is a section called

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Speaker 1: lie harmony, or called corn. This is easily made at

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Speaker 1: home from any variety or of white or yellow dent

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Speaker 1: or flint corn. The kinds with fairly large kernels are

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Speaker 1: easier to hull than those with small kernels, and only

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Speaker 1: clean sound ears should be used. The hulls and germs

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Speaker 1: are loosened by steeping the corn in a lye solution,

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Speaker 1: rubbing off the hulls than washing out the lye and

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Speaker 1: finally boiling the corn. Sometimes the kernels are boiled with

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Speaker 1: the lye, but cold soaking is also effacious and gives

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Speaker 1: what many consider a more delicate flavor. The Division of

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Speaker 1: Serial Investigations of the Bureau of Plant Industry recommends the

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Speaker 1: following method. Dissolve five ounces of lye sodium hydroxide or

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Speaker 1: caustic soda in six quarts of cold water, Stir in

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Speaker 1: five quarts of corn, and let it stand fifteen hours.

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Speaker 1: Wash thoroughly to remove the lye and the hulls. Rubbing

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Speaker 1: the hominy in a cloth bag helps to take off

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Speaker 1: the hulls. When the washing is finished, the hull and

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Speaker 1: black tips should be off and the kernel should look clean.

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Speaker 1: The slight discoloration which the lye causes may be removed

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Speaker 1: by soaking the hominy overnight in water to which a

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Speaker 1: little salt has been added. Cover with water to which

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Speaker 1: five tablespoons of salt have been added, and boil in

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Speaker 1: a covered kettle for three to four hours or until

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Speaker 1: thoroughly cooked, making sure that the hominy remains covered with water.

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Speaker 1: Changing the water once or twice during the cooking will

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Speaker 1: lessen the taste of the lye. Five quarts of corn

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Speaker 1: will make from fifteen to twenty quarts of lye hominy.

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Speaker 1: This was just one part of this bulletin that had

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Speaker 1: numerous recipes for things that you can make with hominy.

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Speaker 1: And the Bureau of Home Economics did not advocate for

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Speaker 1: foods that they thought were weird or quote ethnic. We

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Speaker 1: talked about that in our episode on them. So after

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Speaker 1: really just sort of like questioning, I was like, but

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Speaker 1: hominy though, no, real, Like, people really were eating a

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Speaker 1: lot of hominy and it really was not people's personal

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Speaker 1: food preferences that led to corn meal being the only

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Speaker 1: thing that was sold in the company store. Right, So anyway,

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Speaker 1: I got, really, I gotta be in my bonnet about that,

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Speaker 1: Like I get the wanting to make that the narrative.

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Speaker 1: I totally understand that, and there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: Indigenous foods that are totally overlooked or foods that are

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Speaker 1: Indigenous developments that people who are not Indigenous have no

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Speaker 1: idea that's where it came from. All that's valid, But

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is not people were still eating homedy.

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Speaker 1: Though they're still eating homedy today. I could go to

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Speaker 1: the store and I can buy homedy off the shelf.

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Speaker 1: You know what I wondered through this whole thing, what

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Speaker 1: how are people not passing out all the time? Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm a low blood sugar baby, and if I don't

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Speaker 1: have a high pro glow, I'm gonna crash really hard. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I can't even imagine subsisting exclusively off of corn meal,

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Speaker 1: corn meal, or even just all like you know, relatively

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Speaker 1: simple carbohydrates. Yeah, I would not bet a little fat

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Speaker 1: back in there. That might help a little, but for

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Speaker 1: a minute, but eventually I'm gonna stop functioning. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: without pelagra involved it all right, right, I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: the mental illness is because my brain is not getting

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Speaker 1: any of the things it needs to keep going. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's like the scariest to me is like entire diets

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Speaker 1: with no protein in them. I'm like, what is no brain?

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Speaker 1: Something else that I definitely didn't understand until researching this

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Speaker 1: episode is that I was like, Okay, something about corn

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Speaker 1: was made making people develop plagra. I'm imagining that everybody's

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Speaker 1: just like chomping down on ears of corn on the cob.

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't really have a sense that now the

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Speaker 1: corn was being dried it was being milled into corn

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Speaker 1: meal or grits or whatever. As I understand it, historically,

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Speaker 1: prior to colonization, it was a lot more common to

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Speaker 1: in most of the Americas for the corn to be

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Speaker 1: niche themalized, so that it would have this longer shelf

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Speaker 1: life and not so much to like roast up an

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Speaker 1: ear of corn and eat it right, but you could

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Speaker 1: pop it popping it too. We do have that whole

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Speaker 1: episode on popcorn, which I do love popcorn. Before we

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Speaker 1: started recording, Holly and I started talking about all the

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Speaker 1: types of corn that we love to eat, yes and don't,

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Speaker 1: yeah and don't. Yeah. I'm not like the as we

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Speaker 1: said then, I'm not the biggest fan of just like corn.

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Speaker 1: Although I'm coming around something is happening to my taste

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Speaker 1: buds or like now I'm like a roasted corn I'm

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Speaker 1: okay with. But for the longest time, I just did

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Speaker 1: not want whole corn. Yeah. I do not want cream

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Speaker 1: corn by any stretch of the imagination. I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: a food that grosses me out much more than that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I love popcorn and I love things made with

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Speaker 1: ground corn with corn meal. Oh sure, Oh the flavor,

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Speaker 1: Oh goodness, A good masa. Yeah, I love corn on

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Speaker 1: the cob. I love corn grits, which again most of

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Speaker 1: the like the very mainstream North America food companies that

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Speaker 1: are selling like instant grits. It might have the word

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Speaker 1: hominy on the label, but that's probably not nastimalized corn

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Speaker 1: being used. Some of the more specialty producers will specifically

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Speaker 1: say on on the labeling that it is corn that

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Speaker 1: has been treated in some way with like an alkaline processing.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, love corn on the cop love grits, Love

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Speaker 1: like catfish breaded and corn meal so good. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of like Mexican Mesoamerican sort of street food

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Speaker 1: dishes that involve corn and various cheese like elotes and esquites.

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Speaker 1: I think that's how there's a pronounce. I did not

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Speaker 1: look it up before coming in here. I'm sorry, but

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Speaker 1: I love both of those all and various things that

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Speaker 1: have corn as an ingredient in there, very into it.

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Speaker 1: And again, if you're eating a ton of corn that

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Speaker 1: hasn't been niche tomalized, as long as you're also eating

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Speaker 1: a variety of other foods, probably fine. Probably fine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, you know, living in the South,

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Speaker 1: there are strong opinions about grits. Huh, But there's only

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Speaker 1: one grit for me, and it is the flying biscuit, creamy,

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Speaker 1: dreamy gras. Oh so good, Holy Moses. Yeah, if you

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Speaker 1: were in the South and you are near a flying biscuit, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you've never had them. Yeah, get the to flying biscuit,

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Speaker 1: some streaming grits. They're so good. Yeah. Oh man, I

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Speaker 1: also like shrimp and grits. Yeah. Moving to Massachusetts meant

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Speaker 1: less availability of grits. I feel like that's slightly shifted now.

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Speaker 1: But I remember one time, this was shortly after I

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Speaker 1: had moved to Massachusetts. We stopped for some reason, like

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Speaker 1: we were just out and about doing stuff, and for

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Speaker 1: some reason we stopped at a very large but very

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Speaker 1: standard chain grocery store in Massachusetts in Brookline, and they

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Speaker 1: had a whole wall of different varieties of grits in

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Speaker 1: with the oatmeal and all that, and I was my

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Speaker 1: mind was absolutely blown because I had not seen grits

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Speaker 1: in a store in a super long time. And even now,

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Speaker 1: it's like the place that I usually grocery shop has

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Speaker 1: at most one kind of instant grit and that's your option. Tracy.

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Speaker 1: If only you knew someone who still lived in the

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Speaker 1: South and could ship you grit could ship me grits

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Speaker 1: as much as I want. Why don't you just send

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Speaker 1: me your list. We'll get it handled. During the early

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Speaker 1: COVID time, when many of us were mostly at home,

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Speaker 1: we were getting things in bulk through mail order from

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Speaker 1: a place that is sadly no longer in business. And

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Speaker 1: one time, not one time, like they started having like

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Speaker 1: these giant boxes of grits, and I was like, give

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Speaker 1: me the grits all the time, Grits comfort food in

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Speaker 1: these days of uncertainty. Having returned to days of uncertainty, right,

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Speaker 1: what I've actually been doing recently is cream of wheat,

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Speaker 1: which is not it's as good as you remember. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the ad campaign when we were kids for

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Speaker 1: cream of wheat. Yeah, yeah, I don't remember this. I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you. I know all the commercials. Yeah. I was

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Speaker 1: a child raised by television and I love advertising jingles

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Speaker 1: to this day. There is a place in I think

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Speaker 1: this is in Summerville. I don't live there. I don't

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Speaker 1: live in Summerville anymore, so I don't remember this was

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Speaker 1: in Summerville or who was like over the line in

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Speaker 1: Cambridge called the Neighborhood that had a cream of wheat

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Speaker 1: and we would get it sometimes when a bunch of

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Speaker 1: friends we were going to go somewhere and we would

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Speaker 1: stop and get some to go and we would eat

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Speaker 1: it walking down the sidewalk. And I've started trying to

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Speaker 1: mock up their cream of wheat in my own house

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Speaker 1: in breakfast recently. It's got some similarities to grits, but

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Speaker 1: it's not quite the same thing anyway, delicious, yummy foods.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I have to make shrimp and grits

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Speaker 1: for lunch. Thanks Tracy, I'm very excited for you. Shrimp

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Speaker 1: and grits is one of my all time easily in

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Speaker 1: the top ten favorite dish. Yes, and I love I

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Speaker 1: love trying everywhere's version. Yeah, it's the best. We have

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Speaker 1: grits in the house right now, we don't have any shrimp,

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Speaker 1: so sadly for me. So yeah, I like to do

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Speaker 1: grits with a little scallion in the pan. First, fun

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Speaker 1: let that get brown and even a little crispy. Then

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Speaker 1: you do your your grit situation. Yeah, and then there's

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Speaker 1: just scallions spread throughout them making deliciousness. That sounds really good.

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Speaker 1: It is really good. I love it. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I do find more shrimp and grits on restaurant menus,

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, here always I get so excited when we're

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Speaker 1: going somewhere that has shrimp and grits. I remember mentioning

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Speaker 1: in an unrelated conversation, which was actually about Star Wars

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Speaker 1: when I was at a convention in Salt Lake, that

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Speaker 1: I any restaurant I go to that has shrimp and

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Speaker 1: grits on the menu, especially if I'm somewhere I don't go,

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Speaker 1: I almost order always that's the thing I order. And

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Speaker 1: I was surprised at how many people in the audience

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Speaker 1: of that panel were like, I'm sorry, shrimp and what like.

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Speaker 1: They just thought this sounded like the most gruesome dish

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Speaker 1: one could put before a human, And I'm like, come

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Speaker 1: to the shrimp and grits side, it's really quite delicious.

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Speaker 1: While there was, you know, a Southern pride around these

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Speaker 1: foods and the roles that things like fat back and

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Speaker 1: salt pork plating, cooking and all of that, there was

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Speaker 1: also stigma about some of the foods and Harmony's association

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Speaker 1: with poor people made like other people who could afford

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Speaker 1: a richer variety of food like not really want to

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Speaker 1: deal with that. Yeah, makes total sense that the Department

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Speaker 1: of Home Economics was like, yes, this is how you

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Speaker 1: can do this yourself at home, because part of their

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Speaker 1: whole deal was trying to give people who were facing

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Speaker 1: hardship tools to have like more nutritious foods at home.

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Speaker 1: I had its own baggage that we talked about in

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Speaker 1: those episodes because, like we said, they did not get

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Speaker 1: behind foods that they thought were weird or Unamerican. But yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that defensiveness about you know, regional identity and pride probably

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Speaker 1: cost some people their lives. Yeah. Yeah, Well, and then

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Speaker 1: it became a situation of the people who had really

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Speaker 1: criticized that it could be dietarily related, and it became

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Speaker 1: increasingly evident that yes, this was related to diet continuing

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Speaker 1: to double down because then it sort of seemed like

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Speaker 1: they were going to come off as having been backward

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Speaker 1: and stubborn, So just be more so that's what. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've seen it everywhere in our lives, the people who

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Speaker 1: were wrong and can't admit that they were wrong about something. Right,

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Speaker 1: So anyway, eat a variety of foods if you are able. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you are able, donate to your

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Speaker 1: local food bank. Yes, there is a lot of need

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Speaker 1: right now for food at the food banks. There is.

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Speaker 1: This is where I will talk about briefly the made

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Speaker 1: up Star Wars holiday that I do. Okay, Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: just that every year on Mardi Gras, we have started

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Speaker 1: going instead to Walt Disney World and we go to

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Speaker 1: Galaxy's Edge and we celebrate what we call hut Tong's

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Speaker 1: Day essentially Mardi Gras, but it is in Star Wars

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Speaker 1: and part of that that I always tell friends because

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Speaker 1: they're like, can we run around the parks with you?

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, absolutely, We've gotten quite a nice herd together.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that we always do is like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna police you, but please, as part of this,

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Speaker 1: donate to an organization that feeds people. Because the whole

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Speaker 1: point of like having a very yummy time running around

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Speaker 1: and playing should be that, like may we all have plenty.

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Speaker 1: It's my governing thing. So that's just our goofy way

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Speaker 1: that we do it among our like friend group, which

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Speaker 1: you know, it spans delightfully each year and makes it

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Speaker 1: a fun thing out of reminding everyone to take care

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Speaker 1: of each other by donating to food organizations. But everybody

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Speaker 1: celebrate Hot Time's Day with me this year in whatever

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Speaker 1: way you want to. If you're not into Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: you can just donate to a food org on Mardi

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Speaker 1: Gras or anytime. I have a food bank, and also

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Speaker 1: we have a local food rescue organization that goes and

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Speaker 1: gets the stuff that's going to be thrown out from

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Speaker 1: the restaurants and grocery stores and they redistribute that and

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Speaker 1: then also meals on wheels. Yeah, who's federal funding I

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Speaker 1: think was frozen? I think so, yes, Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: don't know what the situation is with that at this point,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure it will be different by the time

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Speaker 1: this episode comes out, because the time we're speaking about

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Speaker 1: it today to when you hear us speaking about it,

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Speaker 1: who knows what will have happened. So we've alluded to

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Speaker 1: the chaos of the times that we're living in. I

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Speaker 1: really hope that everyone is able to find some moments

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Speaker 1: of joy and peace, because there's moments of joy and

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Speaker 1: peace can make the other stuff that we've got to

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Speaker 1: deal with more deal with able. Yes, and we will

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Speaker 1: be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow, and something brand

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Speaker 1: new on Monday. Stuff you Missed in History Class is

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Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows.