1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission controlled decans. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. We're going on a journey today, 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists. We are traveling to the far North. 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: We're headed to Alaska, and we are looking for a town. 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: It's a place you could easily miss unless you knew 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: exactly where you were going and you knew exactly what 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: you were looking for. This is a story of disaster, 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: it's a story of death, and some would have you 16 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: believe it is a story of monsters. Today's question, what 17 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: happened to port Lock, Alaska before we begin? Uh? Not? Noel? 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: Had you guys heard of this town before before we 19 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: started researching this. I had not. When I first came 20 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: upon the stuff, and you know, shared it around with everybody, 21 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: I had never heard of it. I had never even 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: heard of the peninsula that we're gonna be talking about 23 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: this this whole area. Um, I know nothing. I just 24 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: know it's frontier, it's Alaska. And I remember tiny bits 25 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: of some of the history, uh from do you remember 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: that Discovery show that came out a long time ago, Ben? 27 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: It was like it was the first fiction show that 28 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: Discovery was making and it was about Alaska. Didn't our 29 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: Ceo connal Burne have something to do with that back 30 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: in his Discovery days? I think so. I just remember 31 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: I remember looking up quite a bit of Alaska around 32 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: that time and just learning about how, you know, you 33 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: think the American West as it was, you know, changing 34 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: and as Westerners were moving out to the West, like 35 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: how rough that was, but then realizing just how tough 36 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: it was to exist in Alaska in you know, the 37 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: earth in those earlier times, um, eighteen hundreds, uh even 38 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds, Well, what was the impetus to 39 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: settle out there? Ben, Like, I mean it seemed like 40 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: so inhospitable. Was there Was it about establishing trade or 41 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: were there resources to exploit or a combination? Yeah? Both? 42 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: And then later it became an important and remains an 43 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: important geopolitical barrier. Uh, during the days of the Cold War. 44 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: Alaska is very very US to Russia, right, and so 45 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: it behooves the US at least in their calculations too, 46 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: have something between their continent and Russia. This this place 47 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: is inhospitable, it is still dangerous. Will probably allude to 48 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: this a couple of times in today's episode. But a 49 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: few years back, Paul Michigan trol and I traveled to Alaska, 50 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: and I believe was the first time for both of us. 51 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: This was in the production of a show called Missing 52 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: in Alaska, which also centers around a mystery in the 53 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: far North. And uh, yeah, it's it's very much on 54 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: the edge of the wild in a way that many 55 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: residents of the US would be unfamiliar with and would 56 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:50,839 Speaker 1: perhaps would perhaps uh find dangerous. But I'm sorry. Where 57 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: where did you guys travel to when you made that? Sure? Yeah, 58 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: we were in Anchorage, Alaska. That's where that's the one 59 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: of the easiest places to fly, and and we landed there. 60 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: We were there for about two weeks and we were 61 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: gathering gathering footage, gathering tape, gathering interviews, and Paul traveled 62 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: to I don't want to stay too much without spoiling 63 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: this story, but Paul and our host traveled to a 64 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: incredibly remote location in Alaska on the open ocean and 65 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: UH to an island searching for a plane crash. Those 66 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: are the teasers. The show is available for free on 67 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: your podcast platform of choice, smash that like and subscribe 68 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: button or whatever people say nowadays. I guess my my 69 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: point is you you guys have personal experience just being 70 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: in Alaska, though it is a massive place, and specifically 71 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: on an island, So like experiencing the water, like the 72 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: shores and the water and how frigid and how dangerous 73 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: that can be. Yeah, So it may surprise people to 74 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: know that even in the modern day, UH, life in 75 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: many parts of Alaska is at the mercy of nature 76 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: in the passage of the seasons. So there are times 77 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: where uh the ocean may simply be uh non navigable 78 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: in certain parts right. And there are for instance, when 79 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: we were out working on this, we were racing against 80 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: time because we had seasoned experts and veterans pilots captains 81 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: who were saying, look, I've been doing this for decades 82 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: and if X, Y and Z don't come together before 83 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: you know, this season hits, then you're gonna have to 84 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: wait another year. Uh. And that's just that's just the 85 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: reality of living with nature in a way that many 86 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: people don't nowadays because the majority of human beings live 87 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: in urban areas. But this, this sets the stage just 88 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, we're going to a very rutal place. Here 89 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: are the facts. Nowadays, port Lock, or what port Lock 90 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: used to be. The site where port Lock was located 91 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: is abandoned. This was once a pretty bustling hive of 92 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: activity at the very edge of the frontier. It is located, 93 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, on the on the very southern 94 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: edge of something called the Canai Peninsula. That's right. And 95 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: the closest town is a little bitty place about sixteen 96 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: miles to the north called Seldovia, Um, which has a 97 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: distinctly Nordic quality to the to the name um. And 98 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: just to give you an idea of exactly how remote 99 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: this place is, Seldovia only has around three hundred residents. 100 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: There are no roads leaving in or out, and it 101 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: can only be reached by a small plane or boat 102 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: because there's obviously an airport, so it'd have to be 103 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: one of those like planes that land on the water, 104 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, and the same really goes 105 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 1: for Port Adam or Port Lock. Where what we're talking 106 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: about here, and if you look at it on a map, 107 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: you guys, it's it's at the edge of nowhere. There's ocean. 108 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: There are a few islands right outside of where it is, 109 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: like some tiny little islands, and there's you know, some 110 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: state parks around it, and Port Graham and then like 111 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: you said, Peladovia and that's like, that's it. It's uh, 112 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: it's it's incredible to imagine that people showed up there 113 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: and started work to create any kind of living quarters 114 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: or even a business. Yeah. And the story already gets 115 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: a little bit confusing because this place was known as 116 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: port Lock, and a lot of people outside of Alaska 117 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: and outside of this region will refer to it as 118 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: port Lock, but people who live in the area often 119 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: used the free often use the name Port Chatham interchangeably. 120 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: That's because Portlock is located in Port chat Bay, but 121 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: there's another nearby community called Port Chatham. Additionally, there are 122 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: a ton of places named ports something or other in Alaska. 123 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: Why this sounds a little weird at first, Here's why 124 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: it is important to remember modern exploration of the area, 125 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: by which we mean after native people have been living 126 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: there for thousands of years. Uh, modern exploration of the 127 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: area depended heavily on maritime transportation of resources and people. 128 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: There were no planes, there was any air travel, and 129 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: the brutal realities of overland crossing. Even now with modern 130 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: roads and the internal combustion engine, even even now it's 131 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 1: still difficult. But back then you would be naturally limited 132 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: to how much you could take by like traveling by 133 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: foot or traveling by sled, what have you. And you know, 134 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: also you have to have honest conversations with your fellow travelers, 135 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: like how much are we were willing to risk for this? 136 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: You know, is it is it worth it? Just the 137 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: way a year for a boat, uh, instead of you know, 138 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: just trying to get out there and hope we make 139 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: it back. This is is a crazy time. It's something 140 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: that a lot of people might find hard to understand, 141 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: but it was reality for many, many people for for 142 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: decades and decades and decades, and it's Uh. The town 143 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: itself is named after a guy named Nathaniel Portlock's a 144 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: sea captain maritime fur trader. He was active in the 145 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: area in the late seventeen hundreds, specifically seventeen eighty six. 146 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: They took that that's like the claim to fame, if 147 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: you want to call it that. And this originally started 148 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: out as purely a business town. It was a salmon 149 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: cannering and it later led to some other business operations, 150 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: some kind of more industrial manufacturing. There was a chro 151 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: might mining operation, and they named the site Chrome, I'm assuming, 152 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: which is also what the Google browser is named after. UM. 153 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: Probably not, but led to it really being a place 154 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: of note enough that a post office was established in 155 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: Portlock in ninete, but it would still be sometime twenty 156 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: plus years in fact, well a little less than twenty 157 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: years before it appeared on the U S Census, but 158 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: it was still listed as an unincorporated village with a 159 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: population of thirty one, which as we know, is not 160 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: quite accurate. UM. But most of the town's history UH 161 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: consisted of a population that was largely made up of 162 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: Russian um expats and Allouits, which would be what in 163 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: the indigenous kind of tribal folk of that area of 164 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: that region. And there's a really interesting history in this 165 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: entire area of these Russian allout schools. Uh, that's it's 166 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: not necessarily stuff they don't want you to know, at 167 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: least to my mind right now, but fascinating history. Recommend 168 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: you look into that if you have some time for yourself. Yeah, 169 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: I believe that was a territorial school in the area 170 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: at the time and in that population. Makes sense because uh, 171 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: the the value it. We're already there, as were the 172 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: other indigenous people, and again had been there for a 173 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: very very very long time, and then Russian travelers, Russian 174 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: explorers were the closest other people who could get there, 175 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: So it makes sense that they would show at first 176 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: if we were all to travel there now you listening today, 177 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: and and the stuff they don't want you to know, Gang, 178 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: we would see little more than ruins. There's an old 179 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: mining tunnel and some rusted cannery equipment, sad skeletal remains 180 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: of houses. It's all being slowly eaten away by nature. 181 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: But there's a legend about this town, and it's a 182 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: place some locals don't like to visit. You see. Around 183 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: nineteen nine people started leaving in droves on mass By 184 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty, that post office Noel mentioned had closed and 185 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: this effectively brought an end to port Lock, Alaska. So 186 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: what happened Here's where it gets crazy. We're already here. Yeah, 187 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: well we've got there's a lot of stuff going on. 188 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: So for many people in the area, port Locks mysterious 189 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: depopulation is not just a sad story of gentrification or 190 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: failing business. It's the story of a monster. And what 191 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: we'd like to do with you now, folks, is share 192 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: the story as it's generally presented. So gather around with 193 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: us in your mental camp fire. Get a little closer 194 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: to the flame, not just for the heat, but for 195 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: the light, because there's darkness all around us. A few 196 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: years after the establishments of this salmon cannery, people began disappearing. 197 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: And you can read about this story if you want 198 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: to see the full thing, in places like Alaska Magazine 199 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: and in Today's Alaska a couple other places. So if 200 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: you want to find your own sources, go ahead up 201 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: and head out there, and you'll read very much the 202 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: same stories that we're about to tell you here, and then, uh, 203 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: later on, we'll also tell you the primary source that 204 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: they're all exactly. But here, let's tell the story. As 205 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: you said, Ben, there are many. There are several people 206 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: that met untimely deaths out in Port Lock, at least 207 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: according to the stories or disappearances or disappearances sometimes mangled bodies. 208 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: Who knows. But there's a person named Andrew Camlock who 209 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: was said to have gone out logging in nineteen thirty one, 210 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: and he was discovered dead from a blow to his head, 211 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: and there was some logging equipment found near him that 212 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: may or may not have been part of his death. Sure, 213 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: I mean, there's plenty of accidents that can befall you 214 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: in situations like that, we're working with heavy machinery or 215 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: heavy equipment UM, or even just you know, having to 216 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: climb and maybe take a fall. So there's certainly other explanations. 217 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: But then we get into Tom Larson. Tom Larson went 218 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: out to also chop wood, maybe less of an industrial thing, 219 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: more just like you know, splitting logs um. And he 220 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: claims to have seen something quote large and hairy um 221 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: on the beach. So he went back to his house 222 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: and he got his rifle, uh, and he found this 223 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: this creature to still be kind of lurking around the 224 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: area when he got back, and they got into a 225 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: bit of us staring competition. Uh, and Larson did not 226 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: did not shoot at the time. UM, and so in 227 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: according to some of those stories, they all posit he 228 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: doesn't know why he didn't pull the trigger, right, because 229 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: a lot of that is copy pasted to be candid. 230 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: And the UH, one thing that maybe the more skeptical 231 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: in the crowd would know to already at this point 232 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: is the following. And I'm fine to say it. I 233 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: know it's it's cold, but it's true. People are very 234 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: good at dying. It's the one thing every person successfully 235 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: does at some point. So, UH, we have to what 236 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: we have to endeavor to stick to what what we know. 237 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: There's a lot of speculation surrounding came look, and there 238 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: are a lot of speculation surrounding these other incidents, like 239 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: hunters tracking a moose who found that something else appeared 240 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: to be tracking the same creature, something that left eighteen 241 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: inch human like or primate like footprints. Side note, if 242 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: you have been tracking stuff through snowy whether you know that, uh, 243 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: depending on the climate at the time and how much 244 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: time has passed, Uh, those footprints kind of road and 245 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: look larger than they originally were. And either way, these 246 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: hunters came across a flattened spot in the brush, and 247 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: that's where they believe this large animal this way for 248 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: it big footed animal didn't just kill a moose, but 249 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: was large enough and powerful enough to pick the carcass 250 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: up and carry it away. If you have ever seen 251 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: a moose that is terrifying. It is, and I mean 252 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: they're you know there. This is the kind of thing 253 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: that is the stuff of legends. So you're gonna get 254 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: different accounts of this and people adding their own details. 255 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: But I've certainly heard versions of the story where it 256 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: looked like some sort of you know, melee had taken 257 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: place between these animals or or whatever the other thing was, 258 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: and that there was there were signs of blood even 259 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: in in the snow and on the on the brush. Yes. 260 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: And then there's one little other thing that gets added 261 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: sometimes that they followed the footprints until they vanished. They 262 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: began to vanish into the fog as they went up 263 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: a mountain, and that's why, according to legend, locals will 264 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: still tell you to avoid the area on a foggy day. 265 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: There's also stories of people like a gold miner from 266 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: nearby Port Graham. It's different ports, not Port Chadaman's Port 267 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: Graham who one day went off to the mines or 268 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: when off to look for gold and never returned. You 269 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: also hear again numerous reports of mutilated bodies being found 270 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: as cannary employees disappeared into the hills and the wilderness, 271 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: only to wash up later in nearby streams. In many 272 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: of these cases, as you can probably already ascertain right 273 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: the events have been embellished online or by fringe researchers 274 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: who often are putting a good story over solid facts. 275 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes they will do what I what we sometimes call 276 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: the Ancient Aliens thing, and this is where they'll relay 277 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: the stuff they've read from whatever source they found, and 278 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: almost all of it ultimately comes from as we'll see, 279 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: a really small collection of sources, and then they'll pose 280 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: their own embellishments, not as statements, but in a little 281 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: bit more weasily way as questions. Is like, so if 282 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: you've seen an episode of Ancient Aliens and they'll say 283 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: something like the stone work and the masonry of Machu 284 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: Picchu remains unexplainable by modern standards. What if they had helped, 285 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: what if there was some other civilization at play? Where 286 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: did they come from could it be related to the 287 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: stories of Atlantis or other ancient incredibly advanced civilizations. Could 288 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: it be Aliens? Cut to commercial and we're back. We 289 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: really did it. We did the we did the move 290 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: Commercial African already right. For for those of us who 291 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: were fascinated by cryptids or by the concept of cryptids, 292 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: this feels like it has all the ingredients of a lurid, 293 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: perfect monster story. And that's why if you, like us, 294 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: started reading about port Lock on various internet forums today 295 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 1: or in books about Sasquatch or Bigfoot, you'll a lot 296 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: of people claim, Hey, something like Bigfoot was active in 297 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: this area, was responsible for these attacks. But it's tough because, 298 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: you know, when you go back to primary sources, aside 299 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: from the one witness who survived Larson, it doesn't seem 300 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: like a lot of other people made it to the 301 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: other side of these encounters. And that would seem oddly 302 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: aggressive for Sasquatch, which is, you know, basically the world's 303 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: reigning hide and seek champion if it exists, I mean, 304 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: it's famously reclusive like a lot of other large fauta. 305 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: You know, bears are not bears don't wake up excited 306 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: to come see you. They don't know why you're around, 307 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: and it's irritating and confusing and frightening to them. And 308 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: we can assume the same could be said of a 309 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: lot of other large animals, um except for you know, 310 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: some of the big cats and hippos, uh and crocodiles. 311 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: Those creatures will actively hunt you. I just had an 312 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: image just being hunted the alligators specifically. Okay, push that 313 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: out of my mind. Oh sorry, nile crocodiles will actively 314 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: stock people. Okay, they don't care, they do not care. 315 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: But but it's I mean, it's interesting because I forgot 316 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: to mention this. Like I thought I had never heard 317 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: of port Lock, but I believe I have heard a 318 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: fictionalized version of it. Fictionalized in that it doesn't it 319 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: doesn't purport to be true. It's a horror story called 320 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: The Men from Poor Lock, which is by excellent writer 321 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: named Laird Baron. If you enjoy horror, then do check 322 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: out his short stories. And you know, have a source 323 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: of light nearby if you're easily spooked. Do we know 324 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: do we know roughly when that was published or like 325 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: the era? You know, I'd have to I'd have to 326 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: go back and check, Matt. Yeah, it couldn't have been 327 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: too long ago. I believe it was in maybe this 328 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: uh anthology that comes out every year called Best Horror 329 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: of the Year. That might be it um edited by 330 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: someone Ellen Datlow. So pretty confident it came out after right, Oh, yes, yes, 331 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: very much. The laird Baron is alive. He was not 332 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: writing this in or anything like that. So, which will 333 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: make sense when you see how the legend builds. So 334 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: you'll see books with titles like Abandoned the History and 335 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: Horror of Port Chadom, Alaska, and they lean into this 336 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: idea that a monster attacked the town uh and ultimately 337 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 1: drove everyone out, but they don't dig into a lot 338 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: of the context or details there. And you know that's 339 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: not a ding on the book. That's that's the choice 340 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: these these authors made, and I believe in the case 341 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: of in the case of Abandoned, there's also a video, right, 342 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: there's a video piece of people hunting or attempting to 343 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: find uh, something like bigfoot in the area. Oh, there's 344 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: a whole special you can find titled in Search of 345 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: the Port Chatham harry Man. That's the one. Yeah, is 346 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: is that with Leonard nimoy h Nope, it's not in 347 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: search of Colin. It's just called that I misunderstood. I 348 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: was gonna be like, he's not that Harry. No, No, 349 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: This one, uh was directed by Josiah Martin and written 350 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: by Larry Baxter, and it features what's his name, Stephen T. 351 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: Major person you may may or may not recognize, may not? Okay, Oh, yes, 352 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: Larry Beans Baxter. That's the people call him beans. That's true. 353 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: I was, yes, I was reading about him. But but like, 354 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: here's here's the question, and we'll get into monsters just 355 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: a second. But for now, it's important to remember that 356 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people immediately shut down when they hear 357 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: this sort of explanation. For many people, many people listening 358 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: to the show to a the concept of a violent 359 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: human like creature a bigfoot fighting back against mankind's encroachment, 360 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: or would it be gentrification at that point, I don't know, unclear. 361 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: I guess it depends on how close those are the 362 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: human It's a nonstarter, right, people are saying these things 363 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: don't exist, therefore they could not be a reasonable explanation. 364 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: But either way, wherever you find yourself on the skepticism scale, 365 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is that Port Lock, Alaska 366 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: is abandoned, and for one reason or another, the town 367 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: shut down completely, which means that something had to happen. 368 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: And if you dig into the stories about the town's demise, 369 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: you see that you can trace the sources. Many of 370 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: the lurid tales of the disappearances and the purported deaths 371 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: come from a single author, primarily an article written by 372 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: Naomi cloudah in two thousand and nine for the Homer 373 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: Tribute and Brian Dunning over at Skepti, which of course 374 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: you can tell by the title is a source with 375 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: an angle. Dunning points out that cloud has work itself 376 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: hinges on two sources, and one of those is an 377 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: article that she also wrote way back in three for 378 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: a different outfit, the Anchorage Daily News. So she's taking 379 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: some of that information from the seventies and carrying it 380 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: on to this two thousand nine article, which you can 381 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: read in full online. And I believe you can find 382 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: the text of the full nineteen seventy three article uh 383 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: in in the archive at an Alaskan library. I can't 384 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: remember which one, and I'll just tell you the easiest 385 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: way to find the article that was later written based 386 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: off that. I had to go to the way back 387 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: Machine on archive dot org and you I searched for 388 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: Homer Tribune and her name Naomi Clouda, and you can 389 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: find it. The artic is titled Port Chatham Left to 390 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: Spirits and that's spelled c H A t h A 391 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: m H Holy One. So the second source is a 392 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: little more interesting, I think, because it's closer to the 393 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: actual events. A couple of people who grew up in 394 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 1: Port Lock survived and they moved with their families to 395 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: Port Graham, and they were living in Port Gram at 396 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: the time that they were interviewed by Clouda, and they 397 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: were interviewed through a translator. These interviewees are the inspiration 398 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: for Clouda's speculation on the cryptic angle. It's also fair 399 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: to assume that while they might be the only people interviewed, 400 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: they were sharing a belief that was not uncommon for 401 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: folks at the time and possibly as has been reported 402 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: in the modern day. Let's focus on one of the interviewees, 403 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: Melania helen Kell. She talked about those now typical tales 404 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: disappearance and death. This was regional folklore by this point, 405 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: and it's something that Clouda was well aware of, but 406 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: Kel was able to do something pretty significant. She added 407 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: specific details. She was the person who would say, oh, 408 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: you know that logger, his name was, for instance, Andrew 409 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: Camlock or something like that. And when she was talking 410 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: about this stuff, she and some other people are the 411 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: ones who introduced the idea of supernatural involvement of a 412 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: local supernatural entity, something called the non t knock in 413 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: a N T I I and a Q. It's to 414 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: make it feel a little more like a spelling exactly. 415 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: And then you know, this is something that would have 416 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: been from the lore of of of the indigenous people. 417 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: I mean, so it's interesting to have that detail. And 418 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: not only is this a cryptid type bigfoot creature that 419 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, has corporeal personification, I guess in this you know, 420 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: um potentially violent um animal for lack of a better term. 421 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: It's meant to also be sort of a spiritual deity, 422 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: like a demon of some sort, like some kind of 423 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: malevolent force um. And they believed, according to kell Uh, 424 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: that this was some kind of curse that was escalating 425 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: and it was just going to keep getting worse and 426 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: worse and no worse, and these patterns they were seeing, 427 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: we're just going to continue until something was done about it, 428 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: or until they just you know, said hey, we're out 429 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: of here. Yeah, so she said. Kell says that this 430 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: was this creature was the reason her parents that they 431 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: had to leave town. They said, look, there's an escalating 432 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: pattern of attacks, honey, that's why we're leaving. But we're 433 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: not going far. We're just going over to the next 434 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: port town. And it really isn't that far from from 435 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: where they were living. So it's weird to think that, 436 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, we're we're under attack here in this very 437 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: pacific place. But if we just travel a little bit 438 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: over the land or around, you know, from this port, 439 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: just around to this other port, will be fine. Um, 440 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 1: it's weird to imagine that. So in my mind when 441 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: I think about it, I think of a territorial animal 442 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: that that you know, lives in a very specific place. 443 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: It's not like there are a bunch of these nonto knocks, 444 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: you know, living all around the area the way you know, 445 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: I guess I don't know why I'm thinking squirrel populations, 446 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: but like wolves or or anything you may find out 447 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: there in the wilderness of Alaska. Uh, it's more of 448 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: a like a family or a single thing that lives 449 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: in one spot. Right. Yeah, it's an important point because 450 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: it's supposed to. If we're talking about something that's a 451 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: supernatural entity, then it is completely possible for it to 452 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: be very long lived, perhaps immortal, right, And it is 453 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: possible for it to be a single thing. So that's 454 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: why you don't see a lot of questions about what 455 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: would the active range of this creature be, what would 456 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: it scat look like, where would it nest, how would 457 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: it reproduce? Anyhow? This sounds like big news. Everybody in 458 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: towd left because there's a monster that is killing people 459 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: and mutilating them. If these attacks were happening multiple times 460 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: over a period of years, and they were indeed escalating, 461 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:32,479 Speaker 1: culminating in this exodus from nineteen fifty or so, uh, 462 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: multiple papers of the date would have probably mentioned it, right, 463 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: Probably that would have been a way to sell papers, 464 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: one would think. I mean, if it bleeds, it leads, 465 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: and there was blood all over the snow of of 466 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: port Lock, right. Um. I don't know if we mentioned this, 467 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: but these injuries, I mean, at least according to many 468 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: of these primary sources, which can get deluded in the 469 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: retelling you know of of this tale. These injuries weren't 470 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: typical injury us that you'd see, you know, done by 471 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: like a bear attack or a wolverine attack or something. 472 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,719 Speaker 1: These were much more grizzly and like, you know, like 473 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: essentially being almost mutilated and torn limb from limb in 474 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: some kind of borderline ritualistic way. At least that's what 475 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: that's what people the modern day are saying, right if you. 476 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: The thing is to the point about the idea that 477 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: multiple papers would be highly incentivized to write about this, 478 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: not even not even just for money. Let's not be 479 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: entirely cynical about this. Papers were a way to warn 480 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: people and help them, so there would be an ethical 481 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: journalistic responsibility arguably to spread word of this. But the 482 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: thing is they don't. The Library of Congress has hundreds 483 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: of thousands of archived records from newspapers in Alaska dating 484 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: all the way back to the late seventeen hundreds to 485 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: the time of Nathaniel Portlock himself, and some of these 486 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: stories who actually mentioned this tiny town of Portlock. And 487 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: when they mentioned this tiny town of Portlock, they talk 488 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: about the business there, which is why the town existed. 489 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: They talked about stuff like fishing and the canary, and 490 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: maybe a little bit about mining chro might They do 491 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: not mention anything about a rash of unexplained to deaths, 492 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: disappearances and mutilations the ones because they don't want to. 493 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: They don't want to scare people away from the canary. Dude, 494 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: the salmon is still there. I mean, that's not that's 495 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: not far off from what could possibly be the case. 496 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: I mean, they depended on this for their very existence 497 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: and sustenance, and they had this industry that if no 498 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: one will work, the industry fizzles, and it already was 499 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: a very very small, you know, industry to begin with. Yeah, 500 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: and that's a good point, and a counterpoint to that 501 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: would be that the more powerful newspapers of the time 502 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: would not have been affected by that town getting bad press. 503 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: They would have benefited from it. So but but either way, 504 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: the fact is it didn't get reported. Was it a 505 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: cover up? Was it because in their mind there was 506 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: nothing to report. We'll leave the we'll leave the ultimate 507 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: answer to you folks, as always. But what we did 508 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: find is that there was a story about crime. There's 509 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: one hilarious story about crime, and it's about the postmaster. 510 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: Because remember we said the post office started, which really 511 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: put a stample legitimacy on the town. The guy at 512 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: the time, the postmaster, George Hank, was arrested by g 513 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: men got caught with a gallon of moonshine. No Sasquatch 514 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: was believed to be involved. Yeah, but maybe George and 515 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: some other folks were dealing in some serious moonshine production 516 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: out there somewhere and it was organized and what you 517 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: could even call them organized criminals. Wait, wait a second, now, 518 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: I'm just joking. That's that's my speculation and like coming 519 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: up with ideas because I have this one at just 520 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: an example. Uh So, like as and disappearances, did Good reported, 521 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: there was one reported in nineteen twenty, and then later 522 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: before then there was a report of a boat being 523 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: found in nineteen seventeen. And the boat that washed ashore 524 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: and Port Luck was the same kind of boat that 525 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: these two hunters had set off on from Seward, Alaska 526 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: before they disappeared. You know, it's kind of like saying, 527 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: Paul and Nol leave on a road trip to the Southwest, 528 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: and they were leaving in a Ford Mustang, and then 529 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: later in Texas someone found a Ford Mustang and you 530 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: guys disappeared. Yeah, yeah, that's something we would do. So 531 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't explain you know what I mean, It doesn't 532 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: directly link anybody. So this is so that's the reporting 533 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: you can find from the day that seems to be 534 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: largely like the fact based documentation of that time. That 535 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: doesn't mean these things didn't happen, but it does definitely 536 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: mean the people that we're supposed to be reporting on 537 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: these for some reason to die. Yeah. No, I agree. 538 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: It is weird that there's nothing written there and we've like, 539 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: we can't stress that enough. It is weird, and if 540 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: there was something really going on that is weird. I 541 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: want to talk specifically about this creature, this Nanto Knock 542 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: whatever or non to Knock whatever that thing is, because 543 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: some of the attacks, some of the lore that's been 544 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: generated around this thing doesn't feel so much like a 545 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: big Foot to me. It feels more like stuff I've 546 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: read about a different legendary creature, a when to Go 547 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: and and I know there's some similarities here, but whend 548 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: it goes a very different creature. I just wonder if 549 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: there if we found anything that shows Bigfoot maybe wasn't 550 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: the original culprit or the original legendary creature that. Yeah, yeah, 551 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: that's a great question. So let's go back to the monsters. 552 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: What exactly is a non to know? It is originally 553 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: not a big foot. It comes from a dialect that 554 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: is extant on the Kenai Peninsula and the the languages 555 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: here are rich and diverse. There are a ton of 556 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: different languages. This word itself, none to know seems to 557 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: be a loanword from another language. So the original word 558 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: would be something like nontina, which means literally those who 559 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: steal people. And there's not a connection to cannibalism right 560 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: the way there is often with the wind to go. 561 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: This thing was more like a boogeyman, more like a 562 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: thing you would tell your kids about to make sure 563 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: they didn't go outside, like like a bamba duke in 564 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,280 Speaker 1: a situation. Uh well, it reminds you maybe tales of 565 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 1: witches in you know, the frontiers of the United States 566 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: as it's being settled in the mainland, where the tales 567 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: of witches where that they will steal you away basically 568 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: if you're a child. Um at least some of those 569 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: some of those tales were that. Yeah, and and a 570 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: lot of that's I mean, that's an oral tradition of 571 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: getting kids to bath right. Well, yeah, and just be 572 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: aware of of all the things that can harm you 573 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: if you're a small child, especially predators and real, real, 574 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: real animals. Yeah, whether you're talking about like El Coco 575 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: or the Sacman or the Aswang or whatever. The various 576 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: features of these creatures or entities may differ, but ultimately 577 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: the gist is there's something bad out there in the dark. 578 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: Stay inside and don't wander away, even if it's daytime. 579 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: If I can't keep an eye on you, you're doing 580 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: something bad, kid, and there will be consequences and I 581 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 1: have to chop all that would so we don't freeze 582 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: later this year, so I can't just look at you 583 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: the whole time. So yeah, this this thing did not 584 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: the description of it did not originally fit what we 585 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: understand to be the description of Bigfoot. But over the 586 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: decades since this incident, various authors have conflated the two concepts. 587 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: So now people will understandably but incorrectly assume non is 588 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: another word for sasquatch, which it is not. And the 589 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: question of whether these authors made this conflation as an 590 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: honest error or whether they did it as a purposeful 591 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: embellishment is a little tougher to determine. You'd have to 592 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: go to each person and figure it well. And I 593 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: know this, I know that Sasquatch. You know, myths often 594 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: associate them them having some sort of interdimensional powers where 595 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: they can, you know, move very quickly or do various 596 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 1: things that you might ascribe to a supernatural being or deity. 597 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: And to me, the non to not just takes that 598 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: a step further, like it's almost like a spiritual being 599 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: first and then like uh, embodiment of this creature second, 600 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: which is why I see where you're going with the 601 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: Windigo thing, Matt, because that's sort of very similar to 602 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 1: that where it's a malevolent spirit that is out to 603 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: cause havoc and uh, you know, wreck the lives of 604 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: those in its wake, you know. Yeah, And so we 605 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: see this transformation and this is common in folklore, right, 606 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: Myths com mingle and they speak with one another, so 607 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: well like the the issue, though, is Kell and other 608 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: locals at the times of interviews did seem adamant certain 609 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: that at least in their memory, this monster, this entity 610 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: was the reason the growing up of the time gave 611 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: for leaving Port Lock, Alaska. And as any parents know, 612 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,240 Speaker 1: sometimes these stories you tell your children aren't the hard 613 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: facts of a given situation, right you kind of explain 614 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: it through what feels like the most efficient, comfortable frame 615 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: of reference for that young mind. But there are some 616 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: other details I've found regarding the story of Kell's interview. 617 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: So I mentioned earlier that there was a translator for 618 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: this interview. Believe that translator's name is Sally Ash, and 619 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: Sally was able to speak multiple languages, so she was 620 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: and she was a cousin of Kell's. She said that 621 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: she said that according to the true belief system of 622 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: the people, the non to Nook is not like a sasquatch, 623 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,479 Speaker 1: more of a as we've described, a supernatural being. And 624 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: the idea was that they were reclusive, they didn't really 625 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: want to hang out with people. They had been cited, 626 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: but they were not trying to run up on you, essentially. 627 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: And then for this for this interview for the Homer Tribune, 628 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: the one that you know blew up the story. It 629 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,320 Speaker 1: seemed that Sally Ash wants to clear the air about 630 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: this controversy, and there's a great article about this in 631 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: the Anchorage Press. She said that she She said that 632 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: this story was kind of manufactured, or at the very 633 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: least purposely embellished by Kell, because Kel was getting so 634 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: tired of people always asking her whether the story was true, 635 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: so she made she spun a tale around a campfire, 636 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: And Sally says that my sisters, my cousins, and I 637 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: all were there while this was happening, and we didn't 638 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 1: want her to get mad at us, so we don't 639 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: want to be disrespectful to her. But later we would 640 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: all have a laugh about this. So even this interview 641 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: gets called into question later. Still, given that we know 642 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: something definitely happened, and given that the stories seem at 643 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: least some of the stories hopelessly exaggerated, unprovable, or muddled together, 644 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: already becoming a piece of folklore, it's fair to say 645 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: there's a missing piece of the puzzle here. What could 646 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 1: it be? At this point? Unless we all go camping 647 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: in port Lock, we'll have to make our best guests. 648 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 1: For now. Let's let's get our sleeping bags just in 649 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: our rooms here and take a quicknap while we listen 650 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: to these ads. And we've returned, let's search for some answers. 651 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: Uh Okay, First, make no mistake. As we said at 652 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,320 Speaker 1: the top, Alaska was and is a dangers place. Even now, 653 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 1: even if you were in the capital, you can look 654 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: out on the horizon and you will have a palpable 655 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: sense of being at the edge of the frontier. Even 656 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: though Alaska is sparsely populated. Pulled some statistics that might 657 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: be interesting. It has the highest rate of missing persons 658 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: in the nation. California has the highest number of absolute 659 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: missing persons, but Alaska has the highest rate of missing persons. 660 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: For every ten thousand people, forty one point eight will 661 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: become missing persons. Oh boy, we need we need to 662 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: We need to get our missing four one one guy 663 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: over here again. Serious. Yeah, this is a lot of 664 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: missing people. Okay, that's pretty disturbing. And we talked about 665 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: it before. It's about the environment itself, right, It's about 666 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: when you need something you may not be able to 667 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,240 Speaker 1: get it, like a man made tool or a man 668 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,080 Speaker 1: made vehicle or something like that. You may not be 669 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: able to use a vehicle. And even in you know, 670 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: with the scant kind of infrastructure that they would have 671 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: had in this sort of settlement type situation, you know, 672 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: back before there was modern technology and stuff that certainly 673 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: could make living in Alaska at least a little more 674 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: tolerable and less utterly terrifying and dangerous. I mean, it's 675 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,240 Speaker 1: not out of the realm of possibility that this number 676 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 1: of disappearances might have happened just organically from like going 677 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: out into the wilds and taking a fall, you know, 678 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: or because a lot of I believe a lot of 679 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: these bodies were discovered in lagoon in a lagoon after 680 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: washing down from various rivers that were like higher up 681 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: in elevation. So I mean, you know, again, this the 682 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,240 Speaker 1: mangling and all of that. We don't have firsthand accounts 683 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: or or or images of this, and this is a 684 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,439 Speaker 1: lot of this is hearsay are possibly like a way 685 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: to explain why are so many people dying, But you 686 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: really could just explain it by saying, yeah, it's because 687 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 1: it's a harsh environment. Um, that is a very scary 688 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: place to live, and there's many, many, many ways to die. 689 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: Like you said, Ben, that's something that human beings are 690 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 1: great at doing, from way back when the first humans 691 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 1: were there two right now, the cold is one of 692 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: the biggest things you got to worry about. And if 693 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: you are not fully prepared and experienced to go through 694 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: cold weather like that, especially if you're on foot, then 695 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: it's over and and you're just lost for a while 696 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: until your body shows up. And when you are, when 697 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: you are in a place without infrastructure support easy access 698 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: to medical care, something as small as a broken ankle 699 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: can spell the end of your story. You have to 700 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,720 Speaker 1: be very careful. So just imagine how much more common 701 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,399 Speaker 1: this is back in the day. There's no GPS, there's 702 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 1: no satellite communication, there's someone who's expecting you in a 703 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: month or so, so the stakes are high. And secondly, 704 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: even now, towns across north of across Canada, the US, Mexico, 705 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: and towns across the world only exists when it makes 706 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 1: sense for people to live there. So odds are if 707 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,879 Speaker 1: you are listening in the US right now, you are 708 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: maybe maybe a day or two, maybe three days away 709 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,520 Speaker 1: by a car from an abandoned site near you. And 710 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: many ghost towns become depopulated when they're no longer relevant 711 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 1: on trade routes or when the industries they depended on 712 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,799 Speaker 1: were no longer relevant to the larger economy. Is why 713 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: you see towns across the States that were abandoned when 714 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: new railroad lines by passed them, right, and now now 715 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: the horse and carriage trade that they depended on is 716 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: all going by rail miles and miles north, or miles 717 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,919 Speaker 1: and miles south and west, or what have you. This 718 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: is also why when you see a new stretch of 719 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,760 Speaker 1: interstate passing through a different town, people from the town 720 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: that was no longer convenient by the interstate would tend 721 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 1: to move. There would be brain drain, there would be 722 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,320 Speaker 1: population drain. And with this in mind, it's quite possible 723 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: that the real murderer of port Lock, Alaska may have 724 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 1: been something as simple and as ruthless as progress, that 725 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:21,120 Speaker 1: dastardly progress. I can see this making sense, especially when 726 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: you consider what really did happen in the nineteen forties, 727 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 1: because we're talking about like immediately post World War two, 728 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,360 Speaker 1: right when the mass exodus occurred, or when the last 729 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,919 Speaker 1: people left port Lock, and there's a little coincidence here, 730 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: and or just something that happened around the same time. 731 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: Alaska Route one ZA Highway was built during the nineteen forties, 732 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 1: and it legitimately fundamentally changed the transportation routes, the game, 733 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,399 Speaker 1: the who the whole game of transportation, very very much 734 00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,760 Speaker 1: so because there's like we mentioned, there's so many ports 735 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 1: in that area ports something brothers. Right, that's because overland travel, 736 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,880 Speaker 1: when you're talking about moving weight what it was dangerous, 737 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: It was risky, and it was at times unreliable. So 738 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:20,520 Speaker 1: now you have a way to most more safely transport 739 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,839 Speaker 1: goods in bulk over land. This means you don't need 740 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,600 Speaker 1: as many ships. This means also you don't need as 741 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: many ports. And if you live in a town that, 742 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: like Portlock, is not accessible from this new roadway from 743 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:39,160 Speaker 1: Alaska Route one, then things are starting to look economically 744 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 1: grim because you've got so if you look at the 745 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,359 Speaker 1: map of the peninsula, like matt Side at the top, 746 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,359 Speaker 1: what you can see is that Portlock is at the 747 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: southern tip, kind of um trending a little bit towards 748 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,560 Speaker 1: the western side. And if you look at the way 749 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,959 Speaker 1: that Alaska Route one is built, it's on the other 750 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,920 Speaker 1: side of that peninsa Youla, it's on the opposite side, 751 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,440 Speaker 1: and Port Graham is on the other side of that 752 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,879 Speaker 1: peninsula where there are stories of people moving directly from 753 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: Portlock to Graham. Right. So in this in this way, 754 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: people of port luck we're luckier than some other towns 755 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: because they could move and they didn't have to move 756 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,680 Speaker 1: too far away. When they moved, they were still close 757 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:26,879 Speaker 1: enough to maintain their lifestyles, their family connections right their communities, 758 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 1: their friends, and they were able to relocate their businesses. 759 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,200 Speaker 1: And in fact, there's pretty solid argument to be made 760 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 1: that their businesses would have thrived because of their access 761 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 1: to this new trade route through Route one. So it's 762 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: possible then that people like kills parents just told her 763 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,000 Speaker 1: a story they thought a kid would understand instead of 764 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,560 Speaker 1: walking her through the ins and outs of local economics. Unfortunately, 765 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,480 Speaker 1: it looks like the very same person who translated that 766 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,279 Speaker 1: story is telling us that it was little more than 767 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: a tall tail or a prank. Unfortunately, we'll never know, 768 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,680 Speaker 1: as the parents themselves were not interviewed. It's hard with 769 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,680 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff because so much of it is 770 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,399 Speaker 1: wrapped up in superstition, uh and wrapped up in this 771 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 1: very very harsh existence and this kind of you know, 772 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,719 Speaker 1: combination of these indigenous tales and folks that are, you know, 773 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,240 Speaker 1: very superstitious, so you get these versions of the story 774 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: that really lean into the Oh. But the mutilations were 775 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: made by some some hell fire creature that couldn't possibly 776 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 1: walk the earth. Um, you know that we know of 777 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,799 Speaker 1: and really muddies the waters. But um, there is the 778 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,320 Speaker 1: idea that port Lock simply because again of the nature 779 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,319 Speaker 1: of the size of it and the remoteness of it, 780 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,719 Speaker 1: that it just became less economically viable. Um. And that's 781 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,240 Speaker 1: something that certainly could be leaned into by the skeptical crowd. 782 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 1: But it's still is a place that locals tend to 783 00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 1: avoid there even I mean, there are other, uh, superstitious 784 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: tales wrapped up in this. I wasn't able to find 785 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 1: a direct primary source, but there are you know, people 786 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,160 Speaker 1: who describe the area as haunted and and as of 787 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,000 Speaker 1: seeing apparitions and other kind of spooky stuff. Uh not 788 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:16,720 Speaker 1: just you know, a limb from limb tearing monster. Um. 789 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,279 Speaker 1: So you can explain this stuff away all you want. 790 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,360 Speaker 1: For superstitious people remain superstitious, especially if they're part of 791 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,760 Speaker 1: generations of this kind of superstitious storytelling. Yeah. Yeah, people 792 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: in Seldovia, Port Graham and other places called non walect 793 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: also will You'll find people there saying that the area 794 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: is haunted. But with that, you know, you could say 795 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,840 Speaker 1: you could say that about a lot of places. Honestly, 796 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,799 Speaker 1: you you can go at almost any reach in the 797 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: world and you'll see a lot of people who say 798 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,160 Speaker 1: this part of I don't even know if I believe 799 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,080 Speaker 1: in ghosts, but that abandoned asylum, right, not gonna not 800 00:50:55,120 --> 00:51:00,319 Speaker 1: gonna catch me there fully haunted. But but you know, 801 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,040 Speaker 1: and they always say, it's of the the people who 802 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,440 Speaker 1: died in these mysterious ways. They're the ones that actually 803 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:12,359 Speaker 1: haunt it. Um, not the spirit itself or the creature. Right. 804 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,560 Speaker 1: And in this and in that case, you have to 805 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,239 Speaker 1: ask how much of that has been generated purposely by 806 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: mass media, you know. Um. But but the local aspects, 807 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,640 Speaker 1: the regional folklore is true, and there are people possibly 808 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:29,040 Speaker 1: listening with us to the show today who have personally 809 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 1: encountered these tales. We we would love to hear from you. 810 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,240 Speaker 1: It's it's also possible that people, of course, most people 811 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:42,719 Speaker 1: don't want to seem credulous or silly or superstitious, so 812 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,839 Speaker 1: these beliefs or this discomfort might be something that keep 813 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,120 Speaker 1: largely to themselves, to their close friends or their confidants. 814 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,320 Speaker 1: You know, It's not something that you start a blog about. 815 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,280 Speaker 1: And at the same time, it's possible that various crypto 816 00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:00,120 Speaker 1: zoologists and bigfoot hunters exploring the area are whether or 817 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:06,400 Speaker 1: consciously or unconsciously, prioritizing beliefs that support their own hope, 818 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,279 Speaker 1: the hope that something exists out there on the edge 819 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,920 Speaker 1: of civilization, something both powerful and territorial, more than capable 820 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,840 Speaker 1: of pushing humanity back from the edges of the map. 821 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,960 Speaker 1: If there were something like this, Alaska is not a 822 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 1: bad candidate as a place for it to call home. 823 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean again, if you've seen a moose up close, 824 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,920 Speaker 1: but yeah, just a moose, Yeah, and you just go 825 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,480 Speaker 1: pick it up and take it with you back up 826 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 1: a mountain. But I'm not going to discount the possibility 827 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,799 Speaker 1: that perhaps something exists out there in the peaks, in 828 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,960 Speaker 1: the valleys, in the woods, maybe in a cave system. 829 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: Something might be out there. I'm just I'm not gonna 830 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,640 Speaker 1: say it does I well, I'm gonna say it likely 831 00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: doesn't exist. But I'm one of those people, man, I 832 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:05,960 Speaker 1: think you might be too, that hopes something is out there. Yeah. 833 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,120 Speaker 1: We just don't like poke it. You know, if lots 834 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,359 Speaker 1: up on you because I want to poke it, let's go. 835 00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,960 Speaker 1: I think it's a really bad idea. Matt like you 836 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:21,120 Speaker 1: like those arms? You like those arms? No, okay, because 837 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,319 Speaker 1: it will probably rip them from your body. I just 838 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,719 Speaker 1: want to make friends and have tea. I gotta have 839 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 1: arms and team at I just want to see as 840 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,840 Speaker 1: much as possible, you know what I mean, before the 841 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,960 Speaker 1: last sunsets or the last star goes out, or however 842 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,160 Speaker 1: you wanna wax poetic about the very end of the 843 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:45,239 Speaker 1: brief candle and all that, right, yeah, etcetera, etcetera. Burn 844 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,680 Speaker 1: bright friends. So with this in mind, we pass the 845 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,600 Speaker 1: torch to you. Let us know if you have ever 846 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,320 Speaker 1: been fortunate enough to explore port Lock, Alaska for yourself, 847 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,120 Speaker 1: let us know what you saw. Let us know what 848 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,640 Speaker 1: other stories you have heard, whether you think they have 849 00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,600 Speaker 1: some sand and it doesn't have to be in Alaska. 850 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:13,240 Speaker 1: Every every remote place has some sort of cryptic story. 851 00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,600 Speaker 1: Whether you're talking about the Mongolian deathworm, whether you're talking 852 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,200 Speaker 1: about the abominable snowman or the yety there are. There 853 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:25,680 Speaker 1: are a wealth of stories. Some that are treated just 854 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:30,160 Speaker 1: like tall tales, some that are treated as as realistically 855 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,080 Speaker 1: as you would treat another wild animal and the threat 856 00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,080 Speaker 1: it poses in the wild. We can't wait to hear 857 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,600 Speaker 1: from you. We try to make it easy to find 858 00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,359 Speaker 1: us online, and UH will also the places we're about 859 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,839 Speaker 1: to tell you about online are also where you can 860 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 1: find pictures if we ever make it to Port Look, 861 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,440 Speaker 1: Alaska and more importantly make it back. That's right. You 862 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,560 Speaker 1: can find us on the usual internet places of note. 863 00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy stuff on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube, conspiracy 864 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,760 Speaker 1: stuff show on Instagram. Yes, and we a phone number. 865 00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,560 Speaker 1: You can call it. It's one eight three three s 866 00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,920 Speaker 1: t d W y t K. You can leave a 867 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,640 Speaker 1: voicemail oh yeah, for three minutes up to three minutes. 868 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,319 Speaker 1: And when you do call in, please give yourself a 869 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,279 Speaker 1: cool nickname, whatever you'd like to be called. Leave your 870 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,239 Speaker 1: message and UH. If you've got anything personal to say 871 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,799 Speaker 1: to us or the super producers that work with us, 872 00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,239 Speaker 1: say it right at the end. That's perfect. Just do 873 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,879 Speaker 1: it just like that. If three minutes is not enough 874 00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,360 Speaker 1: time to say everything you want to say, we highly 875 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,880 Speaker 1: recommend you instead send us a good old fashioned email. 876 00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:55,960 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff 877 00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:57,880 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know is a production of 878 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,920 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcast us from my heart Radio, 879 00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,920 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever 880 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,280 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.