1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio and unbost Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: So this week we heard from labor reporter Kim Kelly 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: about the wave of union organizing in the United States 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: at places like Starbucks and Amazon warehouses, and it really 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: made me want to revisit our conversation with Talia Jane. 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: Back in Talia Jane became the post or child for 9 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: quote entitled whiney Millennials for asking for yelp, the company 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,639 Speaker 1: where she worked to pay staff a living wage. Her 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: story is fascinating and I think it tells us a 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: lot about what we can expect from how big tech 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: companies treat their employees. So let's listen in to tell 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: you Jane versus YELP. There's a good chance you've heard 15 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: of Talia Jane, even if you don't recognize her name. 16 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: When the country seemed to be having a love affair 17 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: with crapping on millennials, Talia basically became the poster child 18 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: for the whiny entitled millennial brat, but she also ignited 19 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: a conversation about the living wage and took on one 20 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: of the world's biggest tech companies and actually kind of one. 21 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: My name is Talia Jane. I am a low wage worker, 22 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: labor activist and occasional writer. UM my pronouns are she? 23 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: They also and I live in Brooklyn, New York. Um 24 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: my social security number. I don't wait, that's not how 25 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: this works. Tally's upbringing was complicated. To put it mildly, 26 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: when she was a kid, her mom got involved in 27 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: a convoluted criminal plot that left five people dead. You 28 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: probably want to know more about that. There's a Wired 29 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: profile about her that you can find on the episode 30 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: description I lived. My mom was a single mother. She 31 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: was working low wage jobs. She was, you know, like 32 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: a secretary. She worked for Marrymids, the cleaning company. She 33 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: did all sorts of stuff like that. Um. We moved 34 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: around a lot, lived in a lot of low income housing. UM, 35 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: a lot of food insecurity. As soon as I was 36 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: old enough to read, it was expected that I make 37 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: my own food and do my own laundry and kind 38 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: of be the parent very very early on. Um. And 39 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: on top of that, when I was eleven, Uh, my 40 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: mom's three best friends were arrested for murdering five people, 41 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: which I you know, obviously I had a response to 42 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: issues with but it really spoke to her sort of 43 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: chronic need to be liked by people and to go 44 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: along with whatever people wanted, UH, to secure a sense 45 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: of like stability and friendship, which was not translated to me. 46 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: It was not a good environment that I was in. 47 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: And when that happened, UM, I went to live with 48 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: my grandparents in southern California, and I was put in 49 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: a stable environment for the first time in my life. 50 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: Someone else was making dinner and someone else was doing 51 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: my laundry, and they were very they were very firm 52 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: that the only thing I had to focus on was school. UM. 53 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: And then I bounced around a little bit more between 54 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: my mom, family, friends, UM. Finally went back with my grandparents, 55 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: and then when I graduated high school, it was like 56 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: all right, because they, you know, they're from a different 57 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: generation where it's normal as soon as you graduate high 58 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: school you are out and ideally also married for some reason. 59 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: So on graduation day, my grandpa walked into my room 60 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: and he was like, congrats, you have thirty days to 61 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: find a new place to live. UM. And so she's 62 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: been a lot of UM instability, moments of stability that 63 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: are sort of shrouded by this sense that um, the 64 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: circumstances that I'm in are not going to last, and 65 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: that they are not normal. Talia took out loans to 66 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: attend cal State Long Beach, but eventually found herself having 67 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: to decide between going to college and working so she 68 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: could support herself. She chose work. She found a job 69 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: lead that sounded promising at the food delivery site, which 70 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: was then owned by Yelp. She'd be starting out with 71 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: minimum wage, which she said worked out to about eight 72 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: dollars an hour after taxes, but it was a job 73 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: and there was talk of her being able to move 74 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: into a position with better pay. This job also meant 75 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: that she could be closer to her father. I thought 76 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,559 Speaker 1: this would be a good chance to connect with my dad, 77 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: who lives in the Bay Area and who I never 78 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: really had bunch of relationship with UM. So I was like, 79 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna do it. Like I just opened 80 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: a credit card and I put like moving expenses on there. 81 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: I went up there and spent uh two weeks for 82 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: two weekends searching for apartments, and I finally found one 83 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: that was extremely expensive, but at a point like it 84 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: was month to month, so I figured, you know, I 85 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: could live here and I'll find someone at work to 86 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: room with, and then I can move and it'll be fine, 87 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: Like it'll it'll all sort itself out. Tell you did 88 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: something a lot of people have done at some point 89 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: in their life, packed up on the hope that what 90 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: she was leaving for would be worth it when she 91 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: got there, and it was a chance at something that 92 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: she really didn't get much of as a child living 93 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: with her mom stability. Only that stability never came. I 94 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: wasn't able to find a roommate. I did not get 95 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: transferred to the position that would have me earning something 96 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: like a dollar more per hour um. I was working 97 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: full time, minimum wage. I was living thirty miles away 98 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: and paying something like eleven dollars a day to commute 99 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: to and from work. And very quickly it went from 100 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: this is difficult, but if I just keep pushing, something 101 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: will break and it'll be fine, to oh, this is 102 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: not tenable. I was. By the time my letter happened, 103 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: I was I hadn't eaten an actual meal in a while, 104 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: and I had noticed that my hands were shaking constantly 105 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: and all I was doing, Like when I went to sleep, 106 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: I wasn't dreaming. I would just lay down and then 107 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: my alarm would go off and I would wake up. 108 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: And I would have been doing that for a few weeks. 109 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: And I had something like twenty or sixteen dollars in 110 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: my bank account. I had gotten into positions where I 111 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: couldn't afford to get to work because I couldn't afford 112 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: to put money on my Clipper card to take the train, 113 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: and I couldn't have put forward to pay the toll 114 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: because I didn't have any cash. Um. And it just 115 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: the situation devolved very quickly. And on top of it all, 116 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: I didn't even get to like nurture relationship with my dad. 117 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: We got coffee once, um, on our birthday. We share 118 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: a birthday, and we got coffee for like fifteen minutes, 119 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: and I was like cool, Like that's you know. It 120 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: was not great, Um, yeah it was. It was. It 121 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: was a lot of like you know when when people 122 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: read my letter and they responded to it with like, oh, 123 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: this girl so entitled, you know, it's like no, I 124 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: was attempting to create something better, and I had been 125 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: told by numerous institutions and people that if I did 126 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: certain things, and if I followed a certain playbook, and 127 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: if I worked really hard and threw myself completely into 128 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: the work and dedicated everything of myself to that that 129 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: things would work out. And obviously that is not true. 130 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that just because of what happened 131 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: to me. But if we look at like the world, 132 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: that is the whole concept of the American dream and 133 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, like these things aren't 134 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: based in reality. They are pretty lives that we tell 135 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: ourselves to make ourselves feel better for being constantly chronically 136 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: in pain. One day at work, Talis boss YELPS CEO 137 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: Jeremy Stupelman sent out a cheerful all staff video blog 138 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: something you did pretty regularly and something I just have 139 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: to say. It sounds like the kind of soul crushing, 140 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: semi mandatory motivational tactic right out of the movie office space. Seriously, 141 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: Talia says that one of his vlogs is about how 142 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: he styles his hair in the morning. Hearing her boss 143 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: speaks so cheerfully about her company at a time when 144 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: she was struggling was her breaking point. In true Tali fashion, 145 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: it started with a sarcastic little joke Twitter. She tweeted 146 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: at the CEO offering to edit and watch his vlogs 147 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: if he agreed to pay a living wage. Then she 148 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: wrote him a scathing open letter on medium. If you've 149 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: ever found yourself in an economically precarious situation, her letter 150 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: will probably sound very familiar. It's written with Talius trademark 151 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: dark sarcastic humor, but in it she writes about not 152 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: being able to afford groceries or heat and making rice 153 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: for dinner most days. She describes how her coworkers teetered 154 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: on the brink of homelessness and eviction. Your employee for 155 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: your food delivery app that you spent three million dollars 156 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: to buy can't even afford to buy food, she writes, 157 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: So walk me through how you were feeling when you 158 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: wrote that letter in twenty sixteen, Like what was the 159 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: Was there like a moment where you were just like 160 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: I am over this or was it something that was 161 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: just like a slow burn inside of you? So I 162 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: remember I was standing in my kitchen and I was 163 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: drinking some water because I had tried to go to sleep, 164 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: and I couldn't sleep because I was hungry, and so 165 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: I was drinking water because my stomach was cramping, and 166 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: I was waiting for some rice to boil, and I 167 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: noticed that my hands were shaking, and I suddenly realized 168 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: that these things that I had started doing, drinking water 169 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: to get myself through the twenty minutes it takes to 170 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: boil rice, is that way. Then I have food in 171 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: my stomach so I can sleep for a few hours 172 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: while my hands are shaking. And like all these things, 173 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: I suddenly zoomed out very quickly, and I went, oh, 174 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: this is fucked. And I which is like, holy shit, 175 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: I am, I am wait am. I led to cuss absolutely. 176 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: I was like, holy sh it, I cannot believe I'm 177 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: in this situation. And it immediately became clear that I 178 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: had been doing all of the things that we tell 179 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: our else we have to do. And I had been 180 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: putting in the work, and I had been making plans A, 181 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: B and C to make something happened. But the problem 182 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: was that I was in a circumstance and in a 183 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: place where none of those things were going to work, 184 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: because the area in the Bay Area has become unlivable 185 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: for people who earn six figures, and yet there are 186 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: still jobs that pay a minimum wage in that area 187 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: where people have to commute several hours so then they 188 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: can live somewhere slightly more affordable, and they are still 189 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: failing to get by, you know. Like I suddenly like 190 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: it all clicked together and I was like, oh, ship, 191 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: I should be earning a living wage. And I started typing, 192 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: and I thought about saving it as a draft. And 193 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: I remember I like sent a picture to my friend 194 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: of the rice that I was eating with my laptop open. 195 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm venting really hard right now, and 196 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: the picture was blurry because my hands were shaking from 197 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: being you know, malnourished. Um. And I was reading it 198 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: because usually what I do is I will write something 199 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: out just to get the emotion out. And it occurred 200 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: to me that like, there were more people that were struggling, 201 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: Like if I have it bad, there are other people 202 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: at the same job who also have it bad, and 203 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: it's not fair to them to stay silent and to 204 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: just go along with it when it's so clear how 205 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: fucked up things are. And of course there was like 206 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: a part of me I was like, they shouldn't fire me, though, 207 00:13:54,720 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: because this is protected. It concerted activity I'm speaking on 208 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: my circumstances and on the circumstances of my coworkers and 209 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: demanding something better, like I'm taking a stand for all 210 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: of us. They would be very ignorant to um fire me. 211 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: And then, of course, two hours later, my email got 212 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: deactivated and I was like, oh, yep, Bump fired. And 213 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: that's when everything blew up. It was read by over 214 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: two million people in less than two hours, and hitting published, 215 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: she was fired from Yelp. Her time at Yelp might 216 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: have been over, but this was just the beginning. It 217 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: turns out, just asking the question of whether it's okay 218 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: for a company based in one of the most expensive 219 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: cities in the world to be paying staff minimum wage 220 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: was enough to spark a lot of outrage. What was 221 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: the fallout like after that letter went viral? So there 222 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: was two waves to it. The first wave was people 223 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: being like, holy sh it, this is all full Oh 224 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: my god. And there was a lot of people in 225 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley who were like, whoa, this is huge, Like 226 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: the fact that someone said something about Yelp paying minimum 227 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: wage in like to work in San Francisco, one of 228 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: the most expensive cities in the country, that this is 229 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: a whistleblower, and then about four days later, conservative media 230 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: started to pick up on it because their crusty asses 231 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: are always late, and that was when they were like, oh, 232 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: she's entitled, Like who does she think she is? Demanding 233 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: living wage? Who does she think she is? The responses 234 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: were really personal and angry. Talia Jane shows that she 235 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: has a lot to learn about adulthood. One headline sneered 236 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: Talia Jane. She was a Yelp employee. She went on 237 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: medium dot com where this blog post basically calling out 238 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: the CEO and being yeah, blaming the company that is 239 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: actually the one that's paying her bills allowing her to function. 240 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: One of the most popular responses was by Stephanie Williams. 241 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: She wrote the Tali lect work ethic and that if 242 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: only she had hustled harder, like getting a second job 243 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: in the service industry like she did, she could have 244 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: pulled herself up by her bootstraps. Her response made a 245 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: lot of assumptions about Talia's life, like how she was 246 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: probably able to get support from her family, but in 247 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: reality that wasn't really an option. Tal you head After 248 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: her response to Talio went viral, Williams did a series 249 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: of TV interviews about Talia and entitled Millennials. Here's williams 250 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: segment from Fox News called the Osification of America. The 251 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: whole thing kind of sounded very Dickens esque, like I 252 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: am so poor, Oh my god, I'm so poor. But 253 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: when I got to the end and I realized that 254 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: she had included a link to her Venmo account and 255 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: a PayPal account asking for people to help her to 256 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: pay rent, I just sat there and was like, you 257 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: have got to be kidding me. After doing a media 258 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: circuit about Talia, Williams successfully sold a TV show, writing 259 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: on Medium that her viral rebuttal about Talia's lack of 260 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: work ethic had been quote her golden ticket. Well, the 261 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: thing that I had trouble with is that she was, 262 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: you know, listening all the ways that she worked hard, 263 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: but she was also putting it in the context of 264 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: privileges that I don't have access to. Um, she was 265 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: living at home when she was working. She when she 266 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: lost a job, she was able to move back home. 267 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: Those were not options that I had. I, like I said, 268 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: like my grandparents were like all right, Sea, Like I couldn't. 269 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: I didn't have a home where I could share the 270 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: financial burden while getting myself in line. You know, the 271 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: response is to Talia's letter calling her lazy and entitled 272 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: or a woose reveal a big problem about how we 273 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: talk about poverty and work in America. It isn't is 274 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: about individual choices. Are people, and while it's great that 275 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: some folks were able to hustle hard enough out of 276 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: tough situations, if someone is working a full time job, 277 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: they should make a wage they can actually live on. 278 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: And it's not entitled to expect this in America. You're 279 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: not being a wolf by simply posing the question of 280 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: whether things could be better and having to work multiple 281 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: jobs just to get by isn't a badge of honor. 282 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: It's a sign that something larger is a miss. Obviously, 283 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: you should not need to work multiple jobs to survive. 284 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: The minimum wage when it was created was was enough 285 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: to cover a family of three, that's two adults and 286 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: a child. Today it cannot cover a single person by 287 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: themselves working full time, and that is the thing that 288 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: we should be discussing. It's not you as an individual 289 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: are failing. It's the system does not want you to succeed. 290 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: We'll be right back and We're back. After her letter, 291 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: people cone Callia social media to prove she wasn't struggling 292 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: as much as she said she was. They found pictures 293 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: like ones of her eating a homemade roast or ones 294 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: of her using facial scrub to suggest she was exaggerating 295 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: her financial situation. That, too, reveals a big problem with 296 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: how poverty is framed. It doesn't always look how you 297 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: might think, and we've made it seem like it's justified 298 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: to question the financial choices of someone who's poor, and 299 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: we expect that someone who's poor should project that poverty 300 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 1: at all times. You can't be poor and have an 301 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: iPhone or a laptop, or nice nails, or eat the 302 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: occasional good meal. And in the age of social media, 303 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: the problem gets even trickier. Everyone knows the reality we 304 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: present on Instagram is better than the one we actually live. 305 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: So is it reasonable to judge someone's financial situation on 306 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: what's essentially they're digital highlight reel? So I think an 307 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: important thing that people don't realize is that when you're 308 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: struggling financially, you have a limited number of ways that 309 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: you can release stress to help you get through it. 310 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: And for a lot of people that might be drinking 311 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: or um, you know, going to the beach or experiencing 312 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: something beautiful as an escape from the ugliness of your 313 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: day to day. For me, it's cooking, like I made 314 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: these Bang and Ask cupcakes from scratch with like candied 315 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: lime slices or something like like, and it was a 316 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: joyous thing for me to be able to escape all 317 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: the other stuff. So that way then I can take 318 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: a breath and get back into it. And when we 319 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: look at these things and say, oh, well, you're not 320 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: really struggling, we have to consider the fact that people 321 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: need outlets to get through ship. On top of that, 322 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: social media, we every single person curates their social media 323 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: to appear better than it is. You never see someone 324 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: posting a picture of their infant with a huge diaper 325 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: blowout screaming their face off, even though that happens. You 326 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: only ever see those little babies looking cute and drubic, right, Like, 327 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: we tailor our social media to present a better version 328 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: of our lives. And this happens throughout the you know, 329 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: the financial spectrum. What it boils down to is why 330 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: do you feel the need to police other people? Like? Why? Also, like, 331 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: why do you need a ton of context to justify 332 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: someone's experience. Like I had a picture of a oven 333 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: roast that I made and people said that it was 334 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 1: state and I'm like, no, you're just being a cliche. 335 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: I'm not making fucking steak and lobster. It was an 336 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: oven roast. It costs like seven dollars, and someone else 337 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: purchased it for me to cook for us. But I'm 338 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: not going to put that context on social media because 339 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: if my family and friends found out that other people 340 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: were buying food because I couldn't afford a seven dollar roast, 341 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: then it's going to be like a huge thing. And 342 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: I didn't want my family to be worried about me 343 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 1: because they don't have the resources to help me, and 344 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: they would just feel really bad that I was struggling, 345 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to put that on them, Like 346 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: it's just it's just ridiculous, like these assumptions of of 347 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: uh feigning poverty or feigning excess or like anything like that. 348 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: Like who gives a ship if someone on food stamps 349 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: wants to buy themselves steak in lobster, because that steak 350 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: in lobsters the first meal, first real meal that they've eaten. 351 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: That makes them feel human after months of struggle and 352 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: houselessness and all these different things. If they want to 353 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: do that, that's their prerogative. They're a grown up. You're 354 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: a grown up. Act like one. I feel like we're 355 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 1: all most people that I know, even people who are 356 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: pretty comfortable, are all like one or two calamitous things 357 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: from not being so comfortable. And I knew someone who 358 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: was living pretty comfortably and then, like many folks, lost 359 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: their job, and then like many folks lost their health insurance, 360 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: and then like many folks had a health emergency. When 361 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: that person was doing comfortably. Their car was an older 362 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: and earlier model BMW, but so many people were like, 363 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: I can't believe you d have a BMW and you're 364 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: on you're on with for the baby, you're on food stamps. 365 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:51,959 Speaker 1: And she was like, what am I supposed to do? 366 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: Sell my car to make you all feel better about 367 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: me being on food stamps in the government at distance? Like, 368 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: how would that make sense? For? Like, how is that 369 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: a choice that makes sense? Maybe the point of the 370 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: matter is that, like it's not really your business to 371 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: make sure that I have what you assume to be 372 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: the trappings of poverty. To be you know, adequately broke 373 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: down enough that I deserve to eat. I deserve you know, 374 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: government assistance or what have you. We have this like 375 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: really fucked up. I feel like it probably has roots 376 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: in that bullshit thing of the welfare queen. I feel 377 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: like it has roots in that where you have to 378 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: kind of present yourself. You have to put on like 379 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: a performance of your struggle for people to believe it's real. 380 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: You're not allowed to have acrylics or nice hair. You're 381 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: not allowed to have, you know, in fashion clothes or 382 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: things that fit you comfortably and that are clean. You 383 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: can't have any of these things. You have to be 384 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: like dirty, grimy, tattered clothes. Like you have to put 385 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: on this charade for people to be like, oh, yeah, 386 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: you really are struggling. I've been saying all of these things. 387 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: But unless I'm doing the song dance to make you 388 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: think that, you're like to make you believe my reality, 389 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: it's somehow like, oh, well, what's your personal fault, Like, 390 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: what's your failing? Like if you have a laptop, you're 391 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: not poor, like most people in the US have a laptop. Also, 392 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: it's not that hard to purchase a laptop and then 393 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: put it on credit and you're paying like a small 394 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: amount every single month. It's not hard to purchase an iPhone, 395 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: and every single month you're only paying a month to 396 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: pay off that phone. Like you don't see all of 397 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: the other debts that go into just like maintaining an 398 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: existence in modern society. But because you're seeing the aspects 399 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: of existing in modern society, you're just going to assume 400 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: that people are faking it. Like I don't need to 401 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: walk out of nineteen thirty two for you to believe 402 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: that I am depressed because it was like, you know, 403 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: the Great Depression. Um, thank you for that context you Like, 404 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: I don't need I shouldn't need to be like Sepia, 405 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: toned and dusty and like with dingy dirty nails for 406 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: you to recognize that earning a minimum wage is not 407 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: a living wage? Right? Why do I need to live 408 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: in a shack out in the middle of the woods 409 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: for you to believe that my struggling is valid? Like 410 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: we have to, really, I think, examine our biases when 411 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: it comes to what poverty looks like, well pab sounds like, 412 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: and what poverty feels like. Because so many people they 413 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: assume certain types of people are poor. They assume they 414 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: are poor in certain types of way and that there's 415 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: nothing that can be done because it's their own personal failing. 416 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: And it's just like a big funk you to all that, 417 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: because it couldn't be further from the truth. These are 418 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: systemic issues that need systemic fixes, and one of the 419 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: best ways to get started on a systemic fix is 420 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: to recognize your internal personal adherents and enabling of that 421 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: system and to uncouple yourself from it, you know, and 422 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: then you go through and be like, oh, I now 423 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: realize that even though I'm not struggling as hard as 424 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: someone in the third world country, my struggles are valid. 425 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: Or I realized that my income does not reflect my value, 426 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: and I recognize that your income doesn't reflect your value. Yeah, So, like, 427 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: there's so much that we can uncouple in ourselves, and 428 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: when we do that, we are able to remove the 429 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: power that these systems have over us and demand better. 430 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: But if we don't do that, it's not going to 431 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: get better. Two months after hitting published on our open letter, 432 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: tell You a Story faded from the headlines, and for 433 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: as many media outlets rand pieces about entitled millennials like 434 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: Tell You, much fewer followed up on the story and 435 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: the fact that tell You was actually right and that 436 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: her letter triggered real change, not only to tell you, 437 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: I get people talking and thinking about the living wage. 438 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: Two months after her letter, Yelped increased pay from twelve 439 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: to fourteen dollars, They increase the number of paid time 440 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: off to is from five to thirteen, and they had 441 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: eleven paid holidays, up from their previous number of zero. 442 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: Even though a Yelled representative told Recode that the company 443 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: did agree with many of the points in her letter, 444 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: Yelp still says these changes had nothing to do with her, 445 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: and that they were already in the works. Do you 446 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: think this was in response to your letter? Absolutely? Um, 447 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: they'll never tell you that. So here's the thing is that, Um, 448 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: the city of San Francisco had previously enacted a thing 449 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: where the minimum wage was set to increase up to 450 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: fifteen dollars by uh I think or something like that. 451 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: So no matter what, they would have had to raise 452 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: the wages, but that first bump would have been much less, 453 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: and it wasn't going to go into effect until June. 454 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 1: So they raise wages more than the bump that they 455 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: needed to, and prior too, they needed to do it, 456 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: and then they're going to go ahead and claim that 457 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't because of me, when at the same time 458 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: as my letter was going viral, the customer support managers 459 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: were having one on one meetings with all of the 460 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,719 Speaker 1: customer support staff to gauge how they were feeling and 461 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: to basically try and prevent a mutiny. And workers were like, yeah, 462 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: it is fucked. I'm working full time, I should be 463 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: making a living wage, and they were like, oh, we 464 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: need to do some changes real quick, and then that's 465 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: when they rolled it out like it's obvious. They're never 466 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: going to admit it, but it's obvious. Do you feel vindicated. No, 467 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: because the amount that they raised or like the amount 468 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: that they increased it, it's still not a living wage. 469 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: The workers that are working for these tech companies are 470 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: still not earning a living wage. The rental costs in 471 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: they area is still unlivable, and there's still all this 472 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: stupid like Nimby in fighting against building housing and capping 473 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: rental prices and all of these toxic things occurring in 474 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: the Bay Area. So people are still struggling. You know, 475 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: I do feel like it's like, yeah, I was right, 476 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: but also the fight continues, like we're not done yet, 477 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: morn after this quick break, let's get back to it. 478 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: In the last few weeks, workers across industries have been 479 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: speaking at against unfair, racist, toxic work environments. After Matt 480 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: Hunzie at the food publication Bone Appetite tweeted about racist 481 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: workplace practices within the organization, he was put on leave. 482 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,479 Speaker 1: Tally is happy to see more workers, you know, they 483 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: don't have to keep quiet when something bad is happening 484 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: at their job. Every time I see an and letter, 485 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, you're welcome. Like I remember when Medium 486 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: posted like an app update and they in their in 487 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: their debug log, they called it an open letter to 488 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: Medium users talking about talking about like what the update included, 489 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: and I'm like, my legacy. But I do feel like 490 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: people I was. I was early, but I was also 491 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: right on time, I think because obviously I spoke up 492 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: in a very loud and a very um indignant and 493 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: like direct way, which you know you don't usually see. 494 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: You see like leaks from people, uh speaking to media 495 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: off the record or whatever it is, in this sort 496 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: of like closed door method to get the information out there. 497 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: And instead I was like funk that I just got 498 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: all hip post and I think it might not be direct, 499 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: but I think that I did get caught like the 500 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: early part of people realizing that they have the capacity 501 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: to use their own voice and say this stuff out 502 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: loud directly. Um. I'm hesitant to say that I was 503 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: the originator of that, but I do think that people 504 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: can look at it what I said and be like, 505 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: I can do this, but in like a less sarcastic way, 506 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: and and then and they do it, you know, like 507 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: like Hunsie went on, um, you know Matt Hunsie, I 508 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: for b A. He was like, yeah, stuff is racist 509 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: and bad things are bad here. And then they were like, oh, 510 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: we're putting him on paid leave. And he's like, look, 511 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: they're so afraid of people just saying the thing. But 512 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: if you just say the thing, then it's out there 513 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: and people have to uh reconcile with it. If you 514 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: don't say it, who will, you know. I think a 515 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: lesson that a lot of people take for me is like, oh, 516 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: you have to be really scared of like your social 517 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: media presence and like whatever you post on there, and 518 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: it's like, who gives a ship? I make beautiful cupcakes, 519 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: and I say stuff that needs to be said, Like, 520 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: just say it if it needs to be said, put 521 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: it out there. If you're scared of blowback, do it anyway. 522 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: You're gonna have people who are going to come out 523 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: of the woodwork and be like hell yes, you know, 524 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: like the risk that we create in our minds being 525 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: afraid of like uh, like you know, like for me, 526 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: I obviously am still working low wage jobs. Um, but 527 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: that's like I I used to see it as like 528 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: a punishment, like, oh, I'm never going to have a 529 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: good job because I did this thing and I'm and 530 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: now I'm like there are no good job. I don't care. 531 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: I did the things you say, the thing through the 532 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: thing that's it. So thinking about organizations like Uber and 533 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: Amazon and insta Car, you know they're fueled by working people, 534 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: but yet those same people don't really have a loud 535 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: voice in the conversation about those same companies. So what 536 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: could what can we like, how can we make sure 537 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: that we're meaningfully centering those voices um in conversations about 538 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: about things like Uber and Amazon and insta Car. Pay 539 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: them to write the articles about the companies. We just 540 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: have people who you know, went to journalism school, contacting 541 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: workers and asking them questions that other like that journalists 542 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: are thinking of, but that other workers aren't necessarily like, 543 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: the workers know the problem more than a journalist asking 544 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: questions does um. I saw, especially among COVID reporting early on, 545 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: so much of the coverage would detail how hard it 546 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: was at a company for low wage workers, and then 547 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: every single quote from workers boiled down to essentially quote 548 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: like I'm frustrated and scared, and then there was no 549 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: deeper dive. The best thing I have seen, like, the 550 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: best article I've seen about workers in COVID was written 551 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: by an mt A worker who had the piece published, 552 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: I think in the Washington Post, and they wrote about 553 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: the terror of seeing people that they saw every day 554 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: just vanish and die, and like, these are things that 555 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: you are seeing as you're working in it, and you're 556 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: able to mediate like and like think on these things 557 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: as you're experiencing them. The journalist is just popping into 558 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: a space and being like, Hey, how's it going good? No, Dad, okay, 559 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: and then like that's their story. If you want to 560 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: see these stories reflected accurately, pay the people who live 561 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: them to write about it. Get a good editor who 562 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: doesn't mind spending a little bit more time and nurture 563 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: the story. Don't take their voices and put it into 564 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: your mouth and then speak for them. If you knew 565 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: now all the things are going to happen, if you 566 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: published a letter, would you would you do it again? 567 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: That's it? Yes, I mean it's it's the trolley problem, right, 568 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: would you, uh sacrifice one to save a hundred? Yeah, 569 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: I don't mind If I'm the one, that's fine. And 570 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: I mean I've definitely still had issues. But the further 571 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: way I get from it, the more obvious it is that, uh, 572 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: socially and culturally, whether people realize it or not, if 573 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: they were to go back and read my letter today, 574 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: they'd be like, oh, yeah, obviously, Uh, like we've we've 575 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: moved into a place where what I wrote is, like, 576 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: it's not controversial anymore. Tell you us right, For all 577 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: the hate she got for her letter, by a wide margin, 578 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,959 Speaker 1: Americans say they favor raising the federal minimum wage. Two 579 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: thirds of Americans support raising the minimum wage to fifteen 580 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: an hour, including who say they strongly favor that kind 581 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: of increase, according to a twenty nineteen Pew Research Center survey. 582 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: So we'll tell you to be remembered as someone who 583 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: was an early adopter that most people now agree with. 584 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: Do you think that you'll be remembered as a whiney, 585 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: entitled millennial or someone who amplified the conversation around living 586 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: wages and actually made tangible change. I think both. You know, 587 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: Senator Ben Sas in his book he called me an 588 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: entitled millennial, and that book is going to be on shelves, 589 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: you know, and certain people are going to choose to 590 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: read that. He said, Um, what was this quote? Uh? 591 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: The founding fathers would panic at the survivability of the 592 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: nation if we were to have too many ms Janes. 593 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: Think about that. A sitting senator says that there were 594 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: too many people like tell you, our country might not 595 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: have been able to survive. But what she did was 596 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: actually see a problem in her country, and at great 597 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: risk her own comfort and stability, asked why couldn't it 598 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: be better? What's more patriotic than that? If you're looking 599 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: for ways to support the show, check out our work 600 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: store at tangodi dot com. Flash Store. Got a story 601 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to 602 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 1: say hi. You can reach us at Hello at tangodi 603 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode 604 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: at tangodi dot com. There Are No Girls on the 605 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: Internet was created by me Bridget pad It's a production 606 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio and Unboss Creative edited by Joey pat 607 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Terry Harrison is our 608 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: produc and sound engineer. Michael Amata was our contributing producer. 609 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help 610 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For 611 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,399 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, 612 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.