Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories,
Speaker 2: done done. Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up an sv podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Lisa, I am a host of this show.
Speaker 1: My name is Kara, and I'm the other host of
Speaker 1: this show. And you guys hopefully know what we're doing.
Speaker 3: But maybe you.
Speaker 1: Decided to join at episode sixty six and you don't,
Speaker 1: And so I'll tell you that. We talk about an
Speaker 1: episode of Law and Order SVU, we talk about the
Speaker 1: true crime it was based on, and then we interview
Speaker 1: somebody awesome involved with the episode.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and today is a sweet one.
Speaker 2: Yeahday's really that might be a clue, but whatever, Yeah
Speaker 2: it's Yeah, since it's you know, it's not Dean Winter,
Speaker 2: So get your panty. Yeah, put your vibrators back in,
Speaker 2: pack them up. Dean Winters is not here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I wrote off for the caption on
Speaker 1: the Instagram for the home mark I was like, it's
Speaker 1: Cassidy heavy for all you mayhem horn dogs.
Speaker 2: Well, I just yeah, if you guys know him, Please
Speaker 2: help us get him. We cannot get him to do
Speaker 2: this podcast. And obviously we.
Speaker 3: Definitely want Cassidy.
Speaker 1: If you've got the hookup, if you had a one
Speaker 1: night stand with Cassidy. I don't know, he's probably married,
Speaker 1: but just like let us know, Lisa, I have to
Speaker 1: tell you today. I this morning, before seven am, I
Speaker 1: got busted talking shit about somebody in a group chat
Speaker 1: what I thought was a private one on one text,
Speaker 1: and it was my own brother.
Speaker 3: You talked about Colin, Yes.
Speaker 1: And I know he listens to this podcast and he
Speaker 1: and I've already apologized to him, and he was very
Speaker 1: gracious and accepted my apology. It wasn't talking shit about him.
Speaker 1: It was like, it's tough about his wedding. We're just
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, like Rosie's gonna be a flower girl.
Speaker 3: I'm really I know.
Speaker 2: I saw the post, but it didn't hit me what wedding.
Speaker 2: I saw that Lerosi was gonna be a flower girl,
Speaker 2: and I was like what where?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I fucking forgot Colin.
Speaker 1: So my brother's getting married in September and all the
Speaker 1: siblings are in the wedding, which is so cool, like
Speaker 1: because you know, like tech. You know, he could have
Speaker 1: just had a bunch of guy friends or whatever or girlfriends,
Speaker 1: but he has. He's having his sisters in it too,
Speaker 1: so that's cool. So we're all in it, and we're
Speaker 1: all gonna wear black, and I was like, that's fine,
Speaker 1: and then he was like so and I was like,
Speaker 1: so what about the flower girls? Should they wear white
Speaker 1: or like something to offset? And he was like, we
Speaker 1: were thinking black also, and I was like, I like, just,
Speaker 1: I for some reason hated that idea, and so I
Speaker 1: was just so my brother Kevin, whose other daughter, whose
Speaker 1: daughter is the other flower girl, he texted this morning,
Speaker 1: first thing, doesn't all black gonna feel.
Speaker 3: Like a funeral? And I go, oh, yeah, he's texting
Speaker 3: just me because.
Speaker 1: That's such a shit talk. But it was on the
Speaker 1: sibling thread, so I wrote, yes, that's what I said,
Speaker 1: and I think it's kind of insane and it's gonna
Speaker 1: look ugly.
Speaker 3: And I was like going off about these fower girl dresses.
Speaker 1: And then you just get that hit where you're like, fuck,
Speaker 1: this is fully the group thread.
Speaker 3: Colin is in there, Yeah.
Speaker 2: But this is okay. I do like that it's about
Speaker 2: flower girl dresses.
Speaker 1: And oh, I'm not like I hate his fian Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I deeply love his fiance.
Speaker 2: I well, I didn't love you know, I'll never forget that.
Speaker 2: They both ordered duck when we went out to dinner,
Speaker 2: and they're gonna have to work through that for the
Speaker 2: rest of their lives.
Speaker 3: Two duck orders. Yeah, but anyway, did you see the
Speaker 3: three bubbles? No?
Speaker 1: So he did it respond for hours and I side
Speaker 1: texted him.
Speaker 3: First of all, i'mso a doctor. He's busy.
Speaker 1: Well, I wrote into the chat and I said, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. I really thought that I was just talking.
Speaker 1: I was just talking to Kevin on the side. I
Speaker 1: thought I was talking to Kevin on the side. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I'll do whatever you want. It's your wedding, you know.
Speaker 1: And then I sigh texted him and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry. I thought I was just talking to
Speaker 1: Kevin and we were talking shit. I apologize and he
Speaker 1: was like so cool, like Colin always is. He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like, honestly, I was thinking kind of the same
Speaker 1: thing about the funeral thing. It's not a big deal, like,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, still, I feel like I
Speaker 1: was being a jerk, and He's like that's what siblings
Speaker 1: are for, like really truly a prince, like just handled
Speaker 1: it so well. But he didn't write me back for
Speaker 1: like three hours, and I go, Colin, don't silent treatment
Speaker 1: in me.
Speaker 3: I can't take it, and he goes, I'm just busy.
Speaker 1: Like he finally wrote me back and was like, you
Speaker 1: need to calm down, Like I was busy and I'm
Speaker 1: not silent treatment in you at all. So anyway, I
Speaker 1: just you know that feeling where you're just like, fuck,
Speaker 1: I sent this to the wrong person and totally very
Speaker 1: low stakes, like like flower girl dresses.
Speaker 3: What when you first?
Speaker 2: I mean for all the people that we know mutually
Speaker 2: when and all the group chats, I know that you're in. Yes,
Speaker 2: the violence that could have been had, so to me,
Speaker 2: it was like a relief. It's the bride'smaid's dress or
Speaker 2: the flower like I am. I honestly was like yeah.
Speaker 2: The things that were going through my head were, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right, you're right. I should have breakfast it with
Speaker 2: like it's not what you think. But I also love
Speaker 2: a child in a black dress. I think it's chic,
Speaker 2: but who knows when she'll be a flower girl again?
Speaker 3: Put her in a pink dress. Let us have our fancas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he basically did Mortelle green like a gemstone
Speaker 2: a pastel.
Speaker 3: Why not, Well, that's what I said. He said, it's
Speaker 3: a gay wedding. We're doing all black.
Speaker 1: I mean I thought there'd be a pop of color,
Speaker 1: you know, But he did say that the some of
Speaker 1: the flowers are gonna be light pink. So I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna go with light pink. It's honestly just hard
Speaker 1: to find black. Like it's not even like I can't.
Speaker 1: I could find something cute, it's just a little bit
Speaker 1: hard to find. Well, and it's probably like Balenciaga, like yeah,
Speaker 1: and Rosie, it's a lot of when it's black, it's
Speaker 1: a lot of tool. And you fucking know Rosie she
Speaker 1: will not wear poofy fairy princess shit. So I gotta
Speaker 1: find something that's you know, yeah, that matches with her nikes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true. She's totally gonna have to wear sneakers.
Speaker 2: Okay, Wow, they could be glittery. No child fashion, you'll
Speaker 2: go to Nordstrum. I forgot which baby this was. This
Speaker 2: was years. This was like I was in high school
Speaker 2: or college. But I bought someone Bloomingdale's child section sail
Speaker 2: like a black chek Ralph Lauren child dress, and these
Speaker 2: people went nuts. They were they were like, I've never
Speaker 2: seen black for a child and I have remembered that
Speaker 2: like energy, so it is chic.
Speaker 1: But no, and like again this is like sort of
Speaker 1: more of like one of those weddings that's like at
Speaker 1: a barn, and like we're all staying on the property.
Speaker 1: It's like it is I just I worry about a photo.
Speaker 1: We have a huge family. His fiance has a huge family.
Speaker 1: Like a photo of just all black and then two
Speaker 1: little girls like also in black, Like I was like
Speaker 1: they could be a little accent, you know, like color.
Speaker 2: No, that is great. We also did have some drama
Speaker 2: in our messages. We have to address.
Speaker 1: Yes, last week we talked a lot of shit about
Speaker 1: the breathalyzer test and I still do stand by that
Speaker 1: it's junk science and many people have to like written
Speaker 1: us to corroborate that portable breathalyzers.
Speaker 3: I guess there's two kinds.
Speaker 1: There's the kind that the cops carry breathalyzers, and then
Speaker 1: there's a kind that's like a stationary one that's at
Speaker 1: the police station. And I guess the stationary one at
Speaker 1: the police station. According to like a like a toxicologist
Speaker 1: who wrote us that one's very well calibrated, so that
Speaker 1: one is like admissible. But apparently in some states breathalyzers
Speaker 1: aren't even admissible because they're so they're so inaccurate.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so one of the posts, the first one we
Speaker 2: got that you shared, was that like as a she
Speaker 2: was a lawyer, and as a lawyer, like, if you blow,
Speaker 2: you can at least fight it, Yeah, but if you
Speaker 2: don't blow, there's nothing to fight, and you might actually
Speaker 2: get in more trouble for not And then someone from
Speaker 2: a different state was like, actually, no, here, you shouldn't blow,
Speaker 2: and this and that, and so the states are wild,
Speaker 2: And I guess the conclusion is don't drink and drive,
Speaker 2: Like don't know for sure for sure.
Speaker 1: But the thing is is like it's not even about
Speaker 1: drinking and driving, Like if you have one beer and
Speaker 1: then you drive, and you go take a faulty breathalyzer
Speaker 1: and then you have a dui that can like ruin
Speaker 1: your life in a lot of ways, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like that like I don't know, that's I
Speaker 1: guess what I'm worried about is like you're not wasted,
Speaker 1: but maybe you've had one glass of wine or something
Speaker 1: and then you have this bad science. But it's totally
Speaker 1: state by state. Like I remember reading in Connecticut and
Speaker 1: I might be wrong. Or when I took driver's ed,
Speaker 1: I remember them saying like, if you refuse your you're automatically.
Speaker 3: Losing your license if you refuse a breathalyser.
Speaker 1: So I know that that is true in some states,
Speaker 1: but geez, anyway, hopefully no one's taking what we say
Speaker 1: as gospel. We are comedians. We are not law enforcement.
Speaker 1: We are not law professionals. I know, but we can't
Speaker 1: use that excuse anymore. The Ukrainian president is a comedian.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. We're important people, now, that's so true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's really You texted me that you get Barbera
Speaker 1: vibes from him, and I really liked that.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: I've been really going through it. It's really fucked and
Speaker 2: I think the like it's weird to watch a war
Speaker 2: on social media. Yeah, and the memificate like the hot
Speaker 2: girls with guns and like, you.
Speaker 3: Know, him being hot and like and being this hero.
Speaker 2: It was like so, and Russia's fucking up and it
Speaker 2: was like this optimistic, scary but and now it's not.
Speaker 2: And it's like I wish there wasn't that positivity upfront.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I remember hearing all my.
Speaker 1: Stuff like it's gonna be over really quickly because they
Speaker 1: fucked up, and it's not.
Speaker 3: And now it's like not feeling that way. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, it seems very well planned, I would say, and
Speaker 2: I think they were willing to lose these young soldiers
Speaker 2: upfront that were tricked into going. And but so my
Speaker 2: family has Russian television and they have like seven Russian
Speaker 2: channels and it is state news. My dad like he's
Speaker 2: just a he's eighty four, he was born in nineteen
Speaker 2: thirty eight in the Soviet Union.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, watching Russian television, but we're born in Adisa.
Speaker 3: We're from Ukraine.
Speaker 2: Like his family and him as a child escaped the
Speaker 2: Nazis from Ukraine to Central Asia. So it's like it's
Speaker 2: just very mixed up. And then like when I talk
Speaker 2: to my parents about it, they're like everyone hated them,
Speaker 2: like we left because we were Jews.
Speaker 3: So to them, they're like, it's just very.
Speaker 2: Complicated and a lot of feelings. But they do have
Speaker 2: this Russian television, and I don't want them to have
Speaker 2: it because it's lies and it's not real and I
Speaker 2: just can't deal with it. And so I just tweeted
Speaker 2: at Exfinity as a joke, and within twenty minutes all
Speaker 2: their Russian channels were gone.
Speaker 3: Wait, yes, so I tweeted.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I had nothing to do with it, but
Speaker 2: let me live my fantasy. So so last night I
Speaker 2: tweet at Exfinity going yo, a little funny. I go, hey,
Speaker 2: can you also cut off Russian channels in the US,
Speaker 2: more specifically Skochy my dad's television.
Speaker 3: Please? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And then someone responded on like how you could set
Speaker 2: parental control? So I go, great, texting my sister because
Speaker 2: I thought maybe my sister and my brother.
Speaker 3: In law can like, you know, trick them.
Speaker 2: And so I texted her the greenshot of the tweets
Speaker 2: and she texts back, going, Mom just called me in
Speaker 2: a panic.
Speaker 3: All their channels are gone. That's why I don't even
Speaker 3: know what to say.
Speaker 2: I don't either, so I'm sure they were already working
Speaker 2: on I mean, the sanctions. So then right before we
Speaker 2: started recording this, I got a text from my mom.
Speaker 2: We don't have any Russian TV channels. I didn't know
Speaker 2: who removed all programs. Dad is so upset. He didn't
Speaker 2: know what to do. We played backgammon yesterday till one
Speaker 2: thirty am, like they have because they're.
Speaker 1: Lost without Russian television. I'm sure that what happened is Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like sanctions. They're just cutting off Russian television.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like my mom's gonna and my dad got
Speaker 2: a notice for jury duty. I'm like, okay, I don't
Speaker 2: know what excuse.
Speaker 3: He can't go.
Speaker 2: He can barely, he can't. He's lost, lost without it.
Speaker 2: But I wrote, she doesn't understand what sanctions. But I wrote,
Speaker 2: the government shut it down. The world's doing sanctions on Russia.
Speaker 2: I'll call you later.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: But I love the timing of it, like Lie's is
Speaker 1: a Twitter wizard and can just make things happen.
Speaker 3: It was immediate.
Speaker 2: But I also have a hard time because I don't
Speaker 2: really want to talk to my parents, and this is
Speaker 2: making me realize what happened to them. I don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: in a fucked up way, like with the Holocaust statue
Speaker 2: being bombed, I was like, oh that, oh fuck, Like
Speaker 2: everything's just I don't want to retraumatize my parents in
Speaker 2: any way, so I don't I tried talking to them
Speaker 2: a little, and I don't know. They have a you know,
Speaker 2: their friends. My mom's grandson is there. It's her biggest
Speaker 2: thing in her life that she didn't bring him here
Speaker 2: in the nineties, and like, but they're not talking. I
Speaker 2: don't know what. I don't know. I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do because I don't want to. I don't want
Speaker 2: to trigger them in any way. M Yeah, because they
Speaker 2: don't talk about it at all. The only reason I
Speaker 2: know any bits and pieces of my parents' lives is
Speaker 2: when my dad gets drunk or they're a little wasted,
Speaker 2: or my mind has a little bit of wine.
Speaker 3: Like I don't. They do not talk about anything ever. Ever.
Speaker 3: That's so interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just they just like escaped it and they were like,
Speaker 1: it's in the rear view, we're not talking about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's maybe the culture in some way I
Speaker 2: have I have no idea, but it's just watching a
Speaker 2: country be slaughtered like this slowly. Well, no one can
Speaker 2: do anything because of nuclear shit.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And then it's kind of when we call nurses brave
Speaker 2: where it's like you're brave, have fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it feels.
Speaker 2: Like we're celebrating the bravery of the of the Ukrainian
Speaker 2: people and basically going like go march to your depths
Speaker 2: as you protect your country.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's so fucked and the social media of its weird.
Speaker 2: And then it's like some every morning and every night
Speaker 2: reading everything and then.
Speaker 3: And then we chat about regular It's like back and forth.
Speaker 3: It's sick. It's a little bit don't look up? Did
Speaker 3: you watch Don't Look Up?
Speaker 1: On?
Speaker 3: Dystopia? Really isn't for me?
Speaker 1: Right, But I mean, but like it's similar because it's
Speaker 1: like they're trying to warn about something very serious happening,
Speaker 1: and it's like memes, jokes, talk show hosts like making jokes,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's all just like
Speaker 1: is any information serious? Is anything being taken seriously?
Speaker 3: Like what you know? Yeah, that's what it was.
Speaker 2: I go, it's strange mess because then we were messaging
Speaker 2: about wordle. So I'm texting a friend last night about
Speaker 2: what's happening and like all the news and then I'm like, wait,
Speaker 2: what was.
Speaker 3: Your third guest for the word ale? And it's like
Speaker 3: what is happening. Yeah, and it's a luxury to not
Speaker 3: know war, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but for sure it's Wait, can I ask a
Speaker 1: question about the television thing? Can your parents watch like
Speaker 1: Netflix with Russian like voiceover turned on?
Speaker 3: If they could even? Do I pay for their Netflix?
Speaker 3: Did I set up? Then?
Speaker 4: Don't?
Speaker 2: Okay, of course I did. I set up there on
Speaker 2: my folders. I have folders for Sam and Rema. I
Speaker 2: mean I got them Amazon, I set them up. I
Speaker 2: bought them a Roku. I mean I did it. There's
Speaker 2: no that's not gonna happen. Oh my god, that's not
Speaker 2: gonna be possible for them, hopefully.
Speaker 1: I just so they don't have to just play get
Speaker 1: Back Him until one am every day, Like let's get
Speaker 1: them in canto and Russian, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like something.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: I mean they used to watch HBO, but at once
Speaker 2: you retire and you get the Russia, you know, and
Speaker 2: you don't have to think and translate. It's kind of
Speaker 2: like it's hard to go back. I do feel bad
Speaker 2: for them. There are fun channels too, and that's what
Speaker 2: does suck. And there's like a music Russia loves, like
Speaker 2: a musical variety. Yeah, yeah, one person pretending to be
Speaker 2: another performing for this guy. They're voting like they love
Speaker 2: a musical performance, and the host of it is like
Speaker 2: so fucking hot Galkin, and even he spoke out against
Speaker 2: the war.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what also sucks.
Speaker 2: It's like, of course we're all gonna hate Russian and
Speaker 2: fuck Russians, but it's the leader and the people in
Speaker 2: Russia are about to fucking starve to death to I mean,
Speaker 2: these boys, yes, risking their lives to protest, Like I mean,
Speaker 2: my sister came up with the one good point of
Speaker 2: view that I hadn't heard because I don't know, and
Speaker 2: she goes, well, don't repeat it. I go, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: repeat it everywhere. She goes, I'm not a professional. I go,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, none of us are. I'm like, we're
Speaker 2: all just joining this thing. But she goes, the only
Speaker 2: they should do a coup. Russia needs to turn around
Speaker 2: and fucking go after Putin. Yeah, with the Ukrainians, and
Speaker 2: then I think the rest of the world would join
Speaker 2: maybe or nuclear I mean the nuclear thing is not good. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then you and then I feel selfish anytime making
Speaker 2: it personal. But it's like my therapist say, you feel
Speaker 2: what you feel. You feel what you feel, but it's like, no,
Speaker 2: that's why you said it. That's your like hometown, you know.
Speaker 2: But my sister has no connection to it. She truly like,
Speaker 2: I think she just hated she I mean, people hated
Speaker 2: Jews there.
Speaker 3: They weren't nice to her. Like my sister's like.
Speaker 2: I feel the same way I feel watching any other conflict,
Speaker 2: and I do not feel connected in any way.
Speaker 3: I'm like, she lived there for a decade. I did not.
Speaker 2: I was a child, I was very little, and I go,
Speaker 2: I don't know why I feel how I feel right now.
Speaker 2: Maybe because your memories are like theoretical, like your connection
Speaker 2: is sort of theoretical, and hers is more like she
Speaker 2: has actual memories of it sucking, you know. Yeah, Like
Speaker 2: she didn't teach her kids Russian. She hates the language.
Speaker 2: I love the language when you talk to your mom.
Speaker 2: I think it sounds so pretty, I really do. I
Speaker 2: can't say the same for like German, no offense, German listeners.
Speaker 2: I just there's some languages I do not like. But
Speaker 2: Russian I think sounds really nice now.
Speaker 3: But her friend is.
Speaker 2: But I also I always like, I think I guess
Speaker 2: I took it for granted, where I was like, of
Speaker 2: course I'm gonna go back to is yes, yeah one day, Yeah,
Speaker 2: of course I'm gonna see this fucking stairs in the
Speaker 2: opera house and like fucking do it up, like just
Speaker 2: and then what's gonna happen? These people are gonna live
Speaker 2: and then the bell like also, none of this would
Speaker 2: be happening if Hillary Clinton won the election, I'll tell.
Speaker 3: You that much. I love that a million people would
Speaker 3: not have.
Speaker 2: Been dead from COVID this pool. Like to me, I
Speaker 2: it's maybe it's a dumb thing, but I just once
Speaker 2: in a while I'll think, like I wish I Hillary
Speaker 2: Clinton would have been a good president, even I know
Speaker 2: she's not perfect in any way.
Speaker 1: Yeah of course, but yeah she would have. I think
Speaker 1: things would have been things would be different today.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 2: Oh but the thing of like what to do with
Speaker 2: war and like the impending nuclear war not let's say
Speaker 2: or like we're dead in an instant.
Speaker 3: It's like do you save money for the war or
Speaker 3: do you party?
Speaker 2: Great question, like I bought a concert ticket I couldn't
Speaker 2: really afford. You know, I'm just kind of but I'm
Speaker 2: living in I'm living in a trashy like I don't
Speaker 2: know what to do. But do you party and eat
Speaker 2: steaks or do you like save for when we're starving,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't.
Speaker 1: I think that depends on your personality. I think I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're like a burn it all down
Speaker 1: or like, you know, let's get.
Speaker 2: And then on top of all this, then the Ukrainians
Speaker 2: being racist to African and indiany, I know that's.
Speaker 1: Been really tough too. Oh glad the world is so fucked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like have seen videos of them like not letting
Speaker 1: African immigrants like across the border.
Speaker 3: It's fuck. It's fucked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like with everything, you find time to still be racist.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm on a not positive. But today I did
Speaker 2: watch a video of one of the hottest men I've
Speaker 2: ever seen in my life with a British accent joining
Speaker 2: the like foreign forces for Ukraine and hasn't he doesn't
Speaker 2: even have a Ukrainian friend. His friend let him marine
Speaker 2: stuff and he's like tattoo, like truly the hottest man
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. And he's like whatever we got but
Speaker 2: in an accent. You know, I don't do accents. But
Speaker 2: and that's what's weird about this? It's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: you fucking hot, you go fucking protect this country, and
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, but you could be dead, like it is.
Speaker 3: I just don't know it is weird because it is.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 1: It's like if are we watching a movie, like we're
Speaker 1: watching something unfold on social media, like, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's very real, you know, So it is kind of
Speaker 1: it's it's fucking weird. Yeah, but do you want to
Speaker 1: talk about rape and murder to make it feel better? No?
Speaker 2: No, no, we have I would like a positive note.
Speaker 2: And I just remember this. I get to go to
Speaker 2: a virtual Zoom Simpson's table.
Speaker 3: Reading table read.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so surprised you haven't gone to a table
Speaker 1: read yet.
Speaker 3: To be honest, No.
Speaker 2: No one's really but Christine Nangel, who I'm obsessed with.
Speaker 2: She's like a genius writer. But I also love her impressions.
Speaker 2: She does like a Philly girl impression, and she did
Speaker 2: the impression she did a video of like pretending to
Speaker 2: be the like the owner of the Four Seasons landscaping. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and like talking to Rudy Julie. It's the fun it's
Speaker 2: so funny. And someone wrote like an insane tweet to
Speaker 2: her hating the episode. She wrote, because it's about Santa's
Speaker 2: Little Helper, and he's like, no one gives a shit
Speaker 2: about Santa's Little Helper.
Speaker 3: And I do have a Santa's Little Helper tattoo.
Speaker 2: So I sent it to her being well some people
Speaker 2: like him, and she's like, do you want to do
Speaker 2: the table read to my episode? And I was like yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, I wrote, oh my god, and like emotions
Speaker 2: and I heard they really do it. I mean I'll
Speaker 2: be like muted and hidden, but I heard when they
Speaker 2: do it, they really like do the voices and like
Speaker 2: really do it?
Speaker 1: So really yeah, and then like post when when when
Speaker 1: they are doing them in person again, you'll probably go
Speaker 1: do one in person.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. That's so fun.
Speaker 2: Oh and I know we were saying about the war
Speaker 2: being serious, but my lil fres did have a funny meme.
Speaker 2: You know the video of the president and he goes,
Speaker 2: I am here the defense, like minister is here, this
Speaker 2: person's here. She wrote a caption that said, when you're
Speaker 2: facetiming to prove you're really at guys night, And I
Speaker 2: did like that.
Speaker 1: I did like that you got we got a laugh, right,
Speaker 1: we got a laugh at some things.
Speaker 2: We just need them to live. We need everyone to
Speaker 2: kill Putin like what Yeah, but we also sat around
Speaker 2: like I didn't pay attention to anything. We like take
Speaker 2: our safety for grant. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: But why am I bringing it back down?
Speaker 3: Why I don't know. I don't know. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: it's up. It's up. It's up.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a great episode, and we're gonna get
Speaker 1: started right now. All right, everybody, let's get into Chasing Demons,
Speaker 1: Season nineteen, episode fourteen. This is the Peterstone era, very
Speaker 1: brief Peterstone era, and this is a very different opening
Speaker 1: of the show. We are in trial the minute we open,
Speaker 1: and Stone is cross examining Olivia about someone named doctor West.
Speaker 1: And Olivia is explaining that a ten year old boy
Speaker 1: named Sammy Price disclosed that doctor West performed oral sex
Speaker 1: on him in his pediatric office over two years. And
Speaker 1: this is immediately like, oh, my mother's a pediatrician.
Speaker 3: I hate this already so much.
Speaker 1: The investigation led to fifteen patients being interviewed, two other
Speaker 1: boys coming forward saying that they had also had the
Speaker 1: same attack happened to them, and she said that essentially
Speaker 1: what happened was Wes had a playroom full of sports stuff,
Speaker 1: video games, toys, and that while the parents sat in
Speaker 1: the waiting room, Wes would bring the boys into this playroom,
Speaker 1: lock the door, and abuse them. So now we're outside
Speaker 1: the courtroom living Rollins are just gabbing it up like
Speaker 1: a couple of besties, and she's like, so Cassidy's still
Speaker 1: hitting that basically, and because we've just seen Cassidy get
Speaker 1: off the elevator and lives like, hell no, not.
Speaker 3: Since the DA cleared me of child abuse charges.
Speaker 1: So just to recap, in the season nineteen opener called
Speaker 1: Gone Fishing, Gone Fishing, Benson is being investigated for child
Speaker 1: abuse stemming from annoying Noah, sorry, I know that he is.
Speaker 1: We like him now, but also he was annoying because
Speaker 1: he stepped into traffic and his mom grabbed him and
Speaker 1: then he had a bruise, and he like didn't explain
Speaker 1: to people that his mom did it to help him
Speaker 1: from being run over by a taxi. And so she
Speaker 1: came to find out that Cassidy had mentioned her kidnap,
Speaker 1: slash torture at the hands of William Lewis to the
Speaker 1: investigator and Live is like, fuck you, like, never talk
Speaker 1: to me again, Like you're basically gonna be the reason
Speaker 1: that I lose my son if I do, because you're
Speaker 1: airing my dirty laundry out to these investigators. So she's
Speaker 1: very pissed, and she tells Rowlins in their little you know,
Speaker 1: side chat, that he's tried calling her a few times,
Speaker 1: but she just can't deal.
Speaker 3: So Cassidy sidles up.
Speaker 1: He's about to testify in the West case, and we
Speaker 1: find out that Stone only got this case from Barbara
Speaker 1: two weeks ago.
Speaker 3: And then he all he's all.
Speaker 1: Nice to see you Live without looking at her, which
Speaker 1: I feel like is very high school. That's like very
Speaker 1: much how a boy who likes you in high school
Speaker 1: would be like, uh, yeah, great seeing you, and then
Speaker 1: just like he won't make eye contact with her, And
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know, Cassidy annoys me in this.
Speaker 3: He's immature, but oh he is immature.
Speaker 2: He does not handle his anger, his emotions or communicator.
Speaker 3: I mean he is stunted. We find out why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he is immature. Even remember when like she goes, oh,
Speaker 2: let's try a new place for dinner.
Speaker 3: And his response was, what's up with the old one?
Speaker 2: Like he is a he's not an evolved human.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we're about to see exactly what
Speaker 1: happens when you push Cassidy and he is on the
Speaker 1: stand and uh, he's an investigator for the d DA's office.
Speaker 3: That's his role at this time.
Speaker 1: And he states that doctor West threatened to kill Sammy
Speaker 1: and his whole family if he told an Under cross examination,
Speaker 1: West lawyer is like, you worked as a U undercover
Speaker 1: in narcotics, right, And he asks about Carissa Gibson And
Speaker 1: this is the whole Bart Ganzelle double part that we've
Speaker 1: had a few seasons earlier, and that is a sex
Speaker 1: worker who Cassidy had a sexual relationship with while he
Speaker 1: was undercover. I don't understand why this is relevant, Like
Speaker 1: he was undercover, Like to me, the relationship was part
Speaker 1: of work, right. I don't think I love I think
Speaker 1: he was okay. I thought it was just like he was.
Speaker 1: Well remember when Hannah told us that like undercovers are
Speaker 1: allowed to have sex, they just have to do it
Speaker 1: as quick as possible or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like in.
Speaker 1: Another episode, so and the guy's just like and uh,
Speaker 1: what ended up happening to that sex worker, and Cassidy's
Speaker 1: like she was murdered and then and then he was like,
Speaker 1: and what about Heather Riggs another sex worker that accused
Speaker 1: you of rape? And essentially just his whole past is
Speaker 1: just being like blasted at him, and Cassidy's like, I
Speaker 1: was clear to these charges, Like, how about we talk
Speaker 1: about this investigation? And I kind of find it hard
Speaker 1: to believe that Stone wouldn't have anticipated that they would
Speaker 1: go after all this stuff with Cassidy, Like, why would
Speaker 1: you let him testify?
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 1: If this was I guess it's probably so Sammy didn't
Speaker 1: have to. But it seems like if you know that
Speaker 1: this guy has this crazy you.
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, but you said it already. He only had
Speaker 2: two weeks to prep for the trio. Yeah, so that
Speaker 2: could be something that could have been it too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't like Stone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't know you've made You've not made
Speaker 1: that a secret, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then Wes slawyer shows pictures of him from when he
Speaker 1: was arrested. He's got a swollen in face, black eye,
Speaker 1: he's been roughed up, and Cassidy's like he resisted and
Speaker 1: the lawyer accuses Cassidy of slamming West's face into a
Speaker 1: desk and calling him a monkey, which Cassidy says is bullshit,
Speaker 1: and the lawyer's like, you're a loose cannon who can't
Speaker 1: control your animal instincts, and Cassidy's like, your client is
Speaker 1: the only animal in here, and then the lawyer immediately
Speaker 1: spins it and goes so all black men arem animals
Speaker 1: to you, And it's like, Cassidy might be a little
Speaker 1: bit racist, but I don't think here he's being racist.
Speaker 1: I think he's more triggered by the fact that this
Speaker 1: man is a brazen pedophile. And then Cassidy goes off
Speaker 1: and he stands up on the stand screaming he's lucky
Speaker 1: I did and kill him after what he did to
Speaker 1: those boys and to all the others. So then the
Speaker 1: lawyer immediately moves for a mistrial because he brought up
Speaker 1: these other victims, and Stone is like, we could just
Speaker 1: instruct the jury to disregard, and the judge is like,
Speaker 1: too loud of a belt to unring, and she declares
Speaker 1: a mistrial. And so Cassidy just fucked this case up
Speaker 1: beyond recognition and it's not even the credits yet, and
Speaker 1: I know we're going to get to why, but it's
Speaker 1: like even Stabler can stay calm on the stand, like
Speaker 1: you got it. You can't say I would have killed you,
Speaker 1: Like if he had not said that last part, the trial.
Speaker 3: Would have gone on.
Speaker 1: Then, in an even worse turn of events, doctor West
Speaker 1: gets bail. So this is like a full shit show.
Speaker 1: The parents of all the victims are in the courtroom.
Speaker 1: They're all visibly upset. Hector Ramos is another one of
Speaker 1: the victims. His dad is screaming like he's just gonna
Speaker 1: get away with what he did to my son, and
Speaker 1: Cassidy's just like saying sorry over and over and over again.
Speaker 1: And then it's the credit, so very intense courtroom centric
Speaker 1: opening to this episode. So then at the top of
Speaker 1: act one, Stone is in a walk and talk with
Speaker 1: Cassidy like you fuck this up, and they start arguing
Speaker 1: and Stone is like, you're suspended, and Live comes in
Speaker 1: and breaks it up because they're like, you know, posturing.
Speaker 3: At each other. But also can Stone suspend Cassidy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he's an investigator for the DA's office. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I think he can. So he's like, you're suspended.
Speaker 1: So it's like, Wow, You've really just like watched so
Speaker 1: much bad shit happened to Cassidy. It's like, now he
Speaker 1: has his job suspend. It he fucked up this trial.
Speaker 1: He has his job suspended. He has to see his
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend who he loves and she hates him. Like
Speaker 1: it's not a great day for Cassidy.
Speaker 3: So Stone is.
Speaker 1: Like, I can't believe I let Jack McCoy talk me
Speaker 1: into this job, and Live is like, yeah, why did you?
Speaker 1: And he goes, something came up after my father died
Speaker 1: and I didn't see it coming. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's talking about emotional or the fact that his
Speaker 1: like sister is ill. I don't really know what he's
Speaker 1: talking about here. But anyway, now we're at the home
Speaker 1: of Hector Ramos and his dad is still lit up,
Speaker 1: like you hear him in the kitchen like banging around,
Speaker 1: shoving drawers shut and banging cabinets, and the parents are
Speaker 1: really upset, and Carisie and Rollins are there explaining. They're like,
Speaker 1: we'll retry this in a few months, and they're just
Speaker 1: really upset that Hector's going to have to testify again.
Speaker 1: Wes lawyer was really hard on him on the stand
Speaker 1: and it traumatized him. They're talking about how he lost sleep,
Speaker 1: he was wetting the bed, like it sounds awful, And
Speaker 1: I just don't understand how you sleep at night when
Speaker 1: you're that kind of lawyer, when you're the kind of
Speaker 1: lawyer where your job is to go and interrogate children
Speaker 1: victims and make them trip over their words and feel
Speaker 1: like feel stupid, And I just can't imagine how you
Speaker 1: get any'sease. But let me write in and let me
Speaker 1: know if that's who you are, because I understand defending tradelusters,
Speaker 1: everyone deserves a defense or whatever, but it's like, do
Speaker 1: you have to go hard at kids on the stand,
Speaker 1: Like it just seems kind of reprehensive.
Speaker 3: Well, and this says a lot of dramatics, you know.
Speaker 2: I feel like when we talk about in real life,
Speaker 2: I think we mentioned it where a lot of cases
Speaker 2: it's just trying to plead down, like you know your
Speaker 2: client's guilty, and it's kind of like, okay, he's a
Speaker 2: molestor let's try to get him forty or twenty five, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I wonder how often it happens in real
Speaker 2: life that kids are getting treated this way, but I
Speaker 2: bet often Yeah, I don't know. I wonder if you're
Speaker 2: a lawyer, let us know if this is SVW theatrics
Speaker 2: or people bullying children like Judge all habitually.
Speaker 3: Is that happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So now we are talking to Sammy Price's family
Speaker 1: and they're at a basketball court. Sammy's playing basketball with
Speaker 1: his older brother, Reggie, and they're like he's the older
Speaker 1: brother's being really cute and is like, hey, like Sammy,
Speaker 1: and Sammy just looks really like dejected. And Stone and
Speaker 1: Benson are trying to talk to his mom, who's played
Speaker 1: by Purnell Walker.
Speaker 3: She's very talented the mom.
Speaker 1: She's been in a ton of stuff, like sitting on
Speaker 1: a hill the Deuce. I knew I recognized her from something,
Speaker 1: but she has like a lot of credits and she's
Speaker 1: very good in this role. And they're explaining the new
Speaker 1: trial to her and she's like, no, no, he's just
Speaker 1: gonna go live with his dad in North Carolina. I
Speaker 1: gotta get him out of here. He gets bullied at school,
Speaker 1: and I'm starting to think maybe we never should have
Speaker 1: come forward. And Stone's like no, no, no, no no, and
Speaker 1: tries to convince her and Live is just like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: keep us posted because like a Live knows how to
Speaker 1: deal with victims. She's just like, we're not going to
Speaker 1: sit here and badger this woman. Let's give her a
Speaker 1: couple of days to cool out and then we'll talk
Speaker 1: to her again. I'll check in with her, like you
Speaker 1: know and so. And then Live gets a text and
Speaker 1: is like I gotta go. So Liv shows up at
Speaker 1: a pub on the Upper West Side that I forget
Speaker 1: what it's called, but it definitely doesn't exist because I
Speaker 1: would have drank there if it was real. And Olivia
Speaker 1: shows up to defuse the situation where Cassidy is wasted
Speaker 1: and like fighting with other cops. I think this is
Speaker 1: like a cop bar and they all know him and
Speaker 1: he's getting into like scuffles with all these men. Liv
Speaker 1: tries to calm Brian down, but he's being a dick,
Speaker 1: and then she's kind of like, well, you did fuck
Speaker 1: everything up. And then he's like and you're gonna make
Speaker 1: it all better because you're Alivia Benson and you're the best.
Speaker 1: And it's like mm hmm, like I don't know what, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's probably what's gonna happen, Like that's why whoever at
Speaker 1: the bar called her because everyone knows she'll get you,
Speaker 1: get your ass out of bad situations and she is
Speaker 1: a queen. So and then she tells the bartender to
Speaker 1: cut him off and tells another guy to get him in.
Speaker 3: An uber and she just kind.
Speaker 1: Of walks out because he's like, guess what live. She's like,
Speaker 1: go home, Brian, and he's like, I am home, Like okay,
Speaker 1: So dramatically, he wants to just drink his problems away.
Speaker 1: So now they're talking to the mother of the final victim, Tommy,
Speaker 1: and Stone is talking to his mom at.
Speaker 2: A Russian when she works another Tommy drink, Take a drink.
Speaker 3: It is really wild.
Speaker 1: I know we have a listener that I think is
Speaker 1: making a list of all the Tommies. Can you send
Speaker 1: that to us because it is really really like the
Speaker 1: new boss on the current episodes goes by Tommy like
Speaker 1: it's really nuts. So it's a lot of Tommy's So Tommy,
Speaker 1: can you hear me? She is upset that the mom
Speaker 1: is upset that Tommy has to go through all this again.
Speaker 1: This scene is kind of pointless, and Stone just says,
Speaker 1: we'll put him away and she goes you said that
Speaker 1: the first time, so the scene is really just like
Speaker 1: so that Stone can get his ass handed to him
Speaker 1: another time. Now back at lives Place, it's nighttime and
Speaker 1: there is intense banging on the door of her apartment building,
Speaker 1: like middle of the night banging. Live grabs her gun
Speaker 1: and is like slowly walking to the door, looks through
Speaker 1: the people, opens the door. It's Cassidy covered in blood
Speaker 1: saying I need your help. So we're like, not sure,
Speaker 1: what is this? A barfight? Like what's gone on? So
Speaker 1: then the top of AC two, we're at a crime scene.
Speaker 1: We see like a bus and cop cars outside of
Speaker 1: a brownstone and we get a cute little combo between
Speaker 1: Careesi and Rollins about how he's wearing the same clothes
Speaker 1: as the night before and he's like, ah, I dray
Speaker 1: clean a shut down and she's like, oh, too bad.
Speaker 3: I thought you were going night be getting laid.
Speaker 1: And if you guys will recall, intent was just a
Speaker 1: few episodes ago when he was definitely trying to bang
Speaker 1: Rollins at a motel in West Virginia and she opted
Speaker 1: for a stranger bartender instead. So we weren't quite at
Speaker 1: releasey levels at this point, and so they're at a
Speaker 1: crime scene. Obviously, they go inside and it's doctor West.
Speaker 1: He's been stabbed ten times with a thin knife, a
Speaker 1: single edge blade, and he's like just lying there in
Speaker 1: a pool of blood. And yeah, I mean I kind
Speaker 1: of you know, you'll love to see it when you
Speaker 1: see just like a guy who might walk just get murdered.
Speaker 1: I love vigilante justice. I have to say, yeah, put
Speaker 1: it in writing.
Speaker 2: We're a pro vigilante justice on this podcast.
Speaker 1: So Rollin's and Creasy are like, oh, you want to
Speaker 1: take neighbors, I'll take this guy. And then they get
Speaker 1: confronted with this woman's like, or you could just let
Speaker 1: homicide take care of it. And this is Devin Holiday.
Speaker 3: Deetive. She's a bitch. I don't like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Detective Devon Holiday played by a gorgeous actress named
Speaker 1: Kylie Bunbury, who is actually one of the leads in
Speaker 1: Big Sky, which I've mentioned before, is a show that
Speaker 1: I randomly watch, and she's one of the main characters.
Speaker 1: She grows on you in Big Sky because she's just
Speaker 1: as big of a bitch in Big Sky, but she
Speaker 1: grows on you here. It's like she's just a bitch.
Speaker 1: The whole episode pretty much. But she's got a point.
Speaker 1: This is a homicide, and she's like she's giving off
Speaker 1: very like this is my turf energy, you know, and
Speaker 1: she's like they even try to just introduce themselves and
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, I know who you are, and they're like,
Speaker 1: so you know that this is our case and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all over the news. How that racist self destructed
Speaker 1: your case. Like she's very smug. She's really got a
Speaker 1: bad attitude and s view like Rollin's increase. He are like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's like work together, and she's like, no, thanks, I
Speaker 1: don't need you to fuck up my investigation too.
Speaker 3: It's oh, it's all very harsh.
Speaker 1: And then they walk away from her and Creasy goes,
Speaker 1: it's a little early in the morning for a stick
Speaker 1: up your ass.
Speaker 3: I guess that's a burn. All the up your ass stuff.
Speaker 1: It never resonates with me when someone's like we crawled
Speaker 1: up your ass, Like I just that those like little
Speaker 1: comebacks that never really there's other ways to be like
Speaker 1: you're being a bitch, you know.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I never like, oh, this stick up
Speaker 3: her ass all that.
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's something about it. This just doesn't
Speaker 1: do it for me. So if you've got better burns,
Speaker 1: please send them my way. And then Rollins gets a
Speaker 1: nine to one to one text from Olivia. So because
Speaker 1: this is very early in the morning, like it looks
Speaker 1: like the sun is kind of coming up as Rollins
Speaker 1: and Cariesy are arriving at that crime scene. So now
Speaker 1: Rollins is a lives apartment picking up Noah to take
Speaker 1: him to breakfast and school and lives like, I'll be
Speaker 1: in later. But there's no even fake excuse.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 1: She doesn't even really say like, oh fuck, I forgot
Speaker 1: the cable guy is coming or anything, you know, Like
Speaker 1: she's just kind of like, take my kid to school
Speaker 1: and get the hell out of here. And then they leave,
Speaker 1: but you can see on Rolin's face that she's like,
Speaker 1: what the hell is going on here? And then Cassidy
Speaker 1: strolls in wearing these sweats. This is after Rollins has
Speaker 1: left with Noah, by the way, and Noah.
Speaker 3: Does look cute here.
Speaker 1: He's talking about how he likes blueberry pancakes and stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm liking Noah being a cutie here. And then Cassidy
Speaker 1: strolls in wearing these sweats, and he goes, I can't
Speaker 1: believe you kept these, and Live goes, I wear them
Speaker 1: to clean my toilet, and it's just that's a burn.
Speaker 1: I like, I do like that one. And then Live
Speaker 1: is like Live is livid. Basically, she's like, I have
Speaker 1: a kid. You almost had me lose my kid once before,
Speaker 1: and now you're showing up in the middle of the
Speaker 1: night implicating me in crimes, possibly while my kid is sleeping.
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, you used to care about me,
Speaker 1: and she's like, cut the shit, like you know, and
Speaker 1: he's like, if anyone can prove that I didn't kill West,
Speaker 1: it's you.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Oh, now now he's happy that she's Olivia Benson. Now
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it's not a problem that she
Speaker 2: knows everything.
Speaker 1: Right exactly, Like the booze has worn off, and he's like, fuck,
Speaker 1: the only person that can help me as a person
Speaker 1: I just made fun of and told to fuck off
Speaker 1: hours earlier, when I was like under a haze of Jaegermeister.
Speaker 1: So now we're at like some little diner and Rollin's
Speaker 1: and Noah are having like kind of a cutie little breakfast,
Speaker 1: and she's fully manipulating him for details about what's going
Speaker 1: on with Lib. She's like, anything weird happened to you
Speaker 1: this morning at the house and he was like, well,
Speaker 1: my toothpaste was different because my mom's sink is broken,
Speaker 1: and like, you know, I don't know, that's like a
Speaker 1: weird detail, but I guess that you could draw from that.
Speaker 3: Oh why wasn't he allowed in the bathroom?
Speaker 1: And then he's drawing these boots on the place mat
Speaker 1: and she's like, what are those and he's like they're
Speaker 1: boots from they were in the kitchen this morning, and
Speaker 1: Rolin's face is like done done, and then that's like
Speaker 1: we're off of on that shot of rollin, So she's
Speaker 1: clearly knows something's up and someone's at the apartment.
Speaker 3: So now Cassidy is.
Speaker 1: Telling Lib his whole version of the story, and he's like,
Speaker 1: I couldn't get West's smug look out of my mind,
Speaker 1: so I went there to tell him. I was watching
Speaker 1: him again, like dumb ass move after dumb ass move
Speaker 1: from Cassidy, like just so dumb, and uh, he goes
Speaker 1: and if he tried to intimidate these three kids like
Speaker 1: he did to the other victims, and Olivia's like.
Speaker 3: Then what what would you fucking do? Kill him?
Speaker 1: Like you're so so dumb, you're not allowed to go
Speaker 1: threaten a purp? Like what is this the first day
Speaker 1: of the academy that they teach us this?
Speaker 3: Probably? And I do really like Olivia's hair.
Speaker 1: She kind of has like curtain bangs, like they're like
Speaker 1: bangs that sort of separate, like there's a little theater
Speaker 1: show about to tappen on her forehead.
Speaker 3: And so he.
Speaker 1: Tells Olivia that he went to West's brownstone. The front
Speaker 1: door was open, he called out to West, no one responded.
Speaker 1: Then he got blitz attacked from behind, smacked, and he
Speaker 1: woke up on the floor covered in the doctor's blood.
Speaker 1: And this story is absolutely capital be bonkers, and Live
Speaker 1: lets him know it. She's like, that's quite a story, Brian,
Speaker 1: And he's like, you can take me in if you want,
Speaker 1: but I need to know that you know in your
Speaker 1: heart that I would never do something like this, Like
Speaker 1: I know this is fucked up, but like if I
Speaker 1: tell authorities that I went to West house after what
Speaker 1: went down in court, like they'll definitely arrest me. And
Speaker 1: Live is like, okay, well do you remember anything else?
Speaker 1: Like sense sounds like anything, and he's like, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna get any of that shit out of me, Olivia,
Speaker 1: I was blitz attacked. And she's like, if you're gonna
Speaker 1: do come to me for help, we're gonna do it
Speaker 1: my way. Like she's just don't fuck with Olivia Benson.
Speaker 1: This is season nineteen, dude, you know what's gonna happen here.
Speaker 1: So then the only little piece of anything he has
Speaker 1: to help with himself is this little metal ring that
Speaker 1: he found in his boot and it has blood on it. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we don't know what it is. It's just this
Speaker 1: little like a washer almost. It's like a little uh
Speaker 1: not like a ring that you would wear as jewelry.
Speaker 1: So now at the precinct, they're all talking shit about
Speaker 1: the homicide detective Holiday and Finn's like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: her dad is the deputy Missioner of Corrections, and they're
Speaker 1: all like, explains the gold shield and the attitude, and
Speaker 1: it's like she could also just be good at her job.
Speaker 1: But I know, I do get she's a bit and
Speaker 1: we're talking shit. So then Live is in her office
Speaker 1: on an iPad, swiping through gruesome grip scene photos as
Speaker 1: she is wont to do and then Rollins walks in
Speaker 1: and it's like, so did you get that sync fixed?
Speaker 1: And Lives like huh oh no, not yet, like definitely not,
Speaker 1: like it seems like a lie. And then the Rollin's
Speaker 1: is probing and then she's like what about those boots?
Speaker 3: Like what's up?
Speaker 1: And Live just looks at her kind of like and
Speaker 1: she's like, are you really gonna make me tap dance
Speaker 1: for this?
Speaker 3: Like why are you making me work so hard?
Speaker 1: And so Live closes the door and she's like they're
Speaker 1: cassidys and it's not what you think, like we did
Speaker 1: not get it on. She's like basically tells Rollin's the
Speaker 1: whole crazy story, and Rollin's is like, Olivia, please, girl,
Speaker 1: like you gotta get your head on, like this is
Speaker 1: not a good story. This does not seem right, and
Speaker 1: he's got to come in and Lives like he will,
Speaker 1: just not yet. And then they get into this big
Speaker 1: argument and Rollins is like, I kind of have Rollins's
Speaker 1: side on this. I get that we have to trust
Speaker 1: Olivia's judgment, but Rollins is like he is capable of anything,
Speaker 1: like he could totally be playing you, like look at
Speaker 1: how he flew into a rage on the stand today
Speaker 1: under the influence of alcohol. Who says, who's to say
Speaker 1: what he's capable of? And then Live is like, can
Speaker 1: I just have some fucking credit? I am not a
Speaker 1: dumb ass, and Rollins is like yeah, but Cassidy is.
Speaker 1: So it's just like kind of a fun fight. I
Speaker 1: did like to watch them sort of like.
Speaker 2: Their relationship evolving and becoming closer and better. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: Rollins did fuck up a lot and you know, so
Speaker 2: I do like to see them have like girly energy together.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But then Live is like, for now, let's just work
Speaker 1: the case and Rollins is like cool, cool, cool, And
Speaker 1: if our boss finds out, like your fucked and I'm fucked,
Speaker 1: so thanks for putting me in this position. So it's
Speaker 1: like very tense with them. But yeah, they are pals,
Speaker 1: I think, and we know that they'll make it through that.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And Rollins, where does she come off being like we
Speaker 2: might get in trouble. I'm like you straight up, like
Speaker 2: we're gambling illegally covering for your sister, Like she's done
Speaker 2: so much shit she can't yeah, like shit on anyone else.
Speaker 2: Everyone had her back, true, true, true, true.
Speaker 1: So what Live tells the squad to gently like reach
Speaker 1: out to the families and just make sure that like
Speaker 1: nobody from any of the families had anything to do
Speaker 1: with this. So they're at Sammy's place and his mom
Speaker 1: is like super relieved that West is dead.
Speaker 3: Her friend Granville is there changing a light.
Speaker 1: Reggie and Sammy walk in as the mom is saying, well, like, basically,
Speaker 1: last night we went to we watched X Men till ten,
Speaker 1: and then we all went to bed, and so that's
Speaker 1: their alibi, and Reggie's like, hy, mom, kim Me and
Speaker 1: brogo ice skating. The mom pulls out this fat envelope
Speaker 1: of cash and gives them a couple twenties and then
Speaker 1: they're like, I don't know why. The detectives are like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to have an envelope of cash lying around.
Speaker 1: They were like, what's with the envelope of cash? And
Speaker 1: she goes, oh this someone's lifts it under our door.
Speaker 1: It was five thousand dollars and don't know that said
Speaker 1: more if you don't go back to court. So and
Speaker 1: she's like, West is dead, I'm keeping the money. Even
Speaker 1: though he it's clear now that he was definitely trying
Speaker 1: to budge at this family.
Speaker 3: But also five K is not enough to not go
Speaker 3: back to court. You got to give more than that.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, if Wes actually but he's on bay, I
Speaker 2: wonder what the like if he paid someone to do it.
Speaker 3: Someone's doing it.
Speaker 2: He's doing it, and I don't I doubt he thinks
Speaker 2: he did anything wrong.
Speaker 3: He's a molester.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's definitely paying. He's definitely paying some kind of
Speaker 1: messenger career. He's showing up at his old victims houses
Speaker 1: to slip cash under the doors.
Speaker 3: But yeah, he.
Speaker 1: Definitely doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. And I put
Speaker 1: it together that it was him giving the money. I
Speaker 1: think I just realized that, Yeah, no, he fully was
Speaker 1: trying to buy them off. And now Rollins is at
Speaker 1: Hector's father's workplace because remember how worked up he was
Speaker 1: in court, and she's like, so what's up, Like where
Speaker 1: were you last night?
Speaker 3: And he's like, I.
Speaker 1: Went on a walk and I don't, like, I don't
Speaker 1: really have much of an alibi.
Speaker 3: I was just went for a walk to let off steam.
Speaker 1: And she's like, what about your hand because his hand
Speaker 1: looks busted, and he's like, look around because he works
Speaker 1: in some kind of factories like this job is hazardous,
Speaker 1: like you know, I'm getting cut and bandages.
Speaker 3: All the time.
Speaker 1: So then Holiday walks in and is like, what the
Speaker 1: hell are you doing here? Like she shows up at
Speaker 1: the dad's workplace, and Rollins is like, we've worked with
Speaker 1: these families for two years. We're not just going to
Speaker 1: disappear because the case is over. And Holiday's being super snappy,
Speaker 1: and Rollin's just like, I know you're trying to prove something.
Speaker 3: It would be.
Speaker 1: Helpful if you could be a little bit less of
Speaker 1: a bitch about it. And she's like okay. Like Holiday
Speaker 1: doesn't really have any kind of comebacks except for a
Speaker 1: smug look on her face, and then she says, we're
Speaker 1: also looking for your boy Cassidy, So any idea where
Speaker 1: that dumbass is? And Rollins puts this like very fun,
Speaker 1: bitchy smile on her face and goes, I haven't seen him.
Speaker 1: So that same kind of like flirty Southern bell thing
Speaker 1: she does with guys to get stuff she kind of
Speaker 1: did to be a bitch here, and I kind.
Speaker 3: Of liked that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I like that Amanda's giving it back to her.
Speaker 2: But now it is like, you do know where Cassidy is?
Speaker 2: And he was covered in blood. So yeah, like now
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I'm on this bitch's side and
Speaker 2: yeah like that.
Speaker 3: Because she does rub me the wrong way, right and it.
Speaker 1: But it's also, yeah, it's like police covering for each other.
Speaker 1: This is stuff we don't usually like, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: So at the precinct they're talking about all these different
Speaker 1: possibilities and they're like, well, let's bring in Hector Remos,
Speaker 1: like he has no alibi and he has a record,
Speaker 1: and then Stone walks in and is like, Holiday says,
Speaker 1: you're working the West case, Like what's going on? And
Speaker 1: then private combo ex parte in Live's office, Stone is
Speaker 1: like very pissed that Olivia is trying to work this
Speaker 1: case and step on homicides toes and liv gives Stone
Speaker 1: like a very dramatic monologue about how Noah was kidnapped
Speaker 1: and how she can't sleep at night now, and she
Speaker 1: asks like, I don't really know how it ties in.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like I care about these children
Speaker 1: and I want to know what happened. And so like
Speaker 1: she asks Stone like if we can just look at
Speaker 1: his trial your trial prep files to see if there's
Speaker 1: anything else in there. We could possibly find other patients
Speaker 1: that were maybe affected by the mistrial and maybe they
Speaker 1: came they were the ones that killed him. And he says, okay,
Speaker 1: but you find anything, Holiday has to be your first call.
Speaker 1: No more surprises, and it's like, definitely don't mention that
Speaker 1: you're harboring a fugitive Live. So in this next scene,
Speaker 1: Amanda goes into Live's apartment. She just has a key,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, wow, you guys should start a podcast
Speaker 1: together because I like that. And she confronts Cassidy and
Speaker 1: is like I never took you for such a coward,
Speaker 1: and Rollins is like, you're letting Olivia fuck her career
Speaker 1: over for you, and he's like she'll think of something,
Speaker 1: and rollinsays like she shouldn't have to. And I just
Speaker 1: really like Rollin's here. She's completely right. She's like, you're
Speaker 1: a pussy. You did a dumb ass thing, and you
Speaker 1: fucking put your ex girlfriend, my good friend and boss
Speaker 1: into this horrible position and now she's having to clean
Speaker 1: up your mess. You suck, And so Cassidy's like, you've
Speaker 1: got some baggage too, bitch who bailed you out? And
Speaker 1: Rollins is like that is different, and I guess maybe
Speaker 1: some of it well I don't know, it's some of
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 3: Because no one was ever on the line for murder,
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 1: But he goes, if you think I killed West, go ahead,
Speaker 1: arrest me, and she goes, I would never.
Speaker 3: Go against Live. Put that on a T shirt, and.
Speaker 1: Rollins is like, I don't know why she trusts you,
Speaker 1: but if you give a fuck about her, you'll turn
Speaker 1: yourself in. So I do like this very charged interaction
Speaker 1: between these two. So at Stone's office, Holiday shows up
Speaker 1: and she's got an iPad of some very interesting footage
Speaker 1: taken from outside of Wes Brownstone and she is ready
Speaker 1: to show Stone a little movie and so he's looking
Speaker 1: at it and it's just this guy who we don't
Speaker 1: really see throwing a throwing something down a sewer, and
Speaker 1: Stone's like, oh, it looks like somebody getting rid of
Speaker 1: a murder weapon. And then she goes keep watching and
Speaker 1: then done done. He turns and looks in the direction
Speaker 1: of the camera and it's Cassidy. So they've got Cassidy
Speaker 1: on fucking camera throwing something down a sewer drain. So
Speaker 1: now Stone is confronting Live because like, so you know,
Speaker 1: the vice is moving in on Live here the vice grip,
Speaker 1: so they found a hat with blood on it in
Speaker 1: the sewer, So Cassidy was wearing a hat and there
Speaker 1: was blood on it and that's what he was getting
Speaker 1: rid of. And then Stone is like, and you you
Speaker 1: two used to date, Like no one told me this,
Speaker 1: So he's like, Cassidy hasn't been home in two days,
Speaker 1: any idea where he is? And then at that exact moment,
Speaker 1: Cassidy's like, he's right here, and he shows up and
Speaker 1: like Mike drops a bag of bloody clothes in front
Speaker 1: of them, and then Lives like, I'll bring him to interrogation,
Speaker 1: and Stone's like, back off, You're not going anywhere near
Speaker 1: this guy.
Speaker 3: So you can like advise him and tell him what
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: Finn, come get him, take him to interrogation, and he
Speaker 1: tells Lvia to call Detective Holiday. So in interrogation with
Speaker 1: Detective Holiday, Cassidy is doing like his usual yell talking,
Speaker 1: like everything's very one out with Cassidy in this episode.
Speaker 1: He's just like scream talking and is like it's still
Speaker 1: like a sexy, raspy voice, you know, No, he definitely
Speaker 1: still has something about him. But so Live is talking
Speaker 1: to Stone, and she's like, I could have done this,
Speaker 1: Like I could have done this interrogation in Stones like
Speaker 1: did you think I was gonna let you interrogate your
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend? You're insane? And then Live confesses that Cassidy's
Speaker 1: been staying at her place, so even more of a
Speaker 1: reason why of course you shouldn't.
Speaker 3: Have done this.
Speaker 1: And then Cassidy is talking to Holliday and is like,
Speaker 1: why would I kill this guy when I threatened him
Speaker 1: an open court in front of a dozen reporters. And
Speaker 1: then they had this back and forth where he's like,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't I have just shot him? And She's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we would have traced your gun. Like there's
Speaker 1: all this back and forth, and then she just is
Speaker 1: like I just think you're another cop killing an unarmed
Speaker 1: black man. And she doesn't really care about the pedophile
Speaker 1: angle of this at all. She like, she really doesn't
Speaker 1: like that it's a white like that she thinks it's
Speaker 1: a white man that killed a black man, but not
Speaker 1: that this man possibly molested you know, many many children.
Speaker 1: And so Cassidy's like, I think I'll take my iab
Speaker 1: rep now and live in holiday have a little like
Speaker 1: head to head, but Holliday's point is, do you have
Speaker 1: any other suspects? I didn't think so, like if you've
Speaker 1: got someone else, but right now it's looking like your
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend. And then Stone's like, arrest Cassidy for murder.
Speaker 1: So it's not looking great here for Cassidy. And then
Speaker 1: Finn tries to approach Stone and he's like, yo, go
Speaker 1: easy on Live. Finn's like, I'm not a part of this,
Speaker 1: but I would have been if Live had asked me to.
Speaker 1: And Stone's like, okay, great, you're all criminals and they're
Speaker 1: like no, we're all just best friends that work at
Speaker 1: the Law and Order SBU sixteenth Precinct together. And then
Speaker 1: Finn explains how Live does shit and he's like, there's
Speaker 1: just no way she would have gone through all this
Speaker 1: for him if she thought he was guilty. And then
Speaker 1: Justice Finn is talking to Live, going this looks pretty
Speaker 1: bad for you. And it's kind of like an all
Speaker 1: as Lost moment in this episode. The CSU tech walks
Speaker 1: in and I forgot to mention this guy earlier. He's
Speaker 1: kind of like a sort of like a hipstery dorky
Speaker 1: kind of CSU guy.
Speaker 3: I kind of like him.
Speaker 2: Well, I love him, and you know what movie he's
Speaker 2: from what Harry at the Spy.
Speaker 3: He's like the door key Boy and Harry at the Spy.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, says who was like one of the og
Speaker 2: friends that then turns against her.
Speaker 3: But yeah, his face hasn't changed in decades. He's well,
Speaker 3: he's still into the spy way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he's there with you know as always, like
Speaker 1: when there's this moment of like what's going to happen,
Speaker 1: usually Melinda walks in, someone walks in with like DNA
Speaker 1: or some kind of a it's gonna yeah, someone's gonna
Speaker 1: come in and blow the roof off the whole Joel
Speaker 1: dela Fente.
Speaker 3: I mean, we know so many CSU two we do.
Speaker 1: So he says that there are trace amounts of other
Speaker 1: DNA at the crime scene, and they're like, is it
Speaker 1: anyone in the system, And he's like, not unless you've
Speaker 1: got a database for SeaWorld. Okay, maybe I don't like
Speaker 1: him as much. And and essentially the DNA is from
Speaker 1: a fish. So Finn remembers something from Stone's prep files
Speaker 1: at that moment, perfect perfect, that these little details just
Speaker 1: pop into all their heads, and he said, I remember
Speaker 1: Sammy Price once went to doctor West with a fish
Speaker 1: hook injury, like he had gotten sliced by a fishhook
Speaker 1: on the arm or something, and Finn's like, where there
Speaker 1: are fish hooks, there could be a fishing knife. And
Speaker 1: they none of them really think that Sammy's mom is
Speaker 1: the fishing type. But does she have a boyfriend? And
Speaker 1: then Cariesy remembers that when they had gone to visit
Speaker 1: her to talk about how doctor Wes was dead, she
Speaker 1: was washing two wineglasses. Ooh, earlier evidence laid out. So
Speaker 1: they go talk to her and she's like, yeah, my
Speaker 1: friend Glanville was over here. He comes over time to time.
Speaker 1: You got a feeling that maybe there's like a slight
Speaker 1: romance going on between them, and he takes my kids
Speaker 1: fishing all the time. And so then Glanville is like
Speaker 1: willingly showing them his fishing supplies, and Ice is like,
Speaker 1: where's the bait knife and he's like, it's not in there,
Speaker 1: And that's not good news for Glanville. So at the
Speaker 1: top of act four they bring in Glanville. He's in
Speaker 1: cuffs and yeah, it's not a great look for to
Speaker 1: have your fishing knife go missing. So then the mom
Speaker 1: is saying that he would never do this. Live and
Speaker 1: Rollins are talking to the boys, Sammy and Reggie, and
Speaker 1: they're like, he didn't even know about the trial till
Speaker 1: the next day.
Speaker 3: It's not Glanville.
Speaker 1: And then Live notices Reggie sitting on the couch playing
Speaker 1: with a fidget spinner. Everyone remember the fidget spinners from
Speaker 1: a few years ago, And this is truly one of
Speaker 1: the greatest leaps of all time. Like she just sees
Speaker 1: a fidget spinner and is like, huh, I wonder if
Speaker 1: that bloody washer Cassidy gave me, We'll fit into that
Speaker 1: fidget spinner. So she's like, can I see that for
Speaker 1: a second, And she notices that the little area of
Speaker 1: the fidget spinner is the exact same size as the
Speaker 1: ring Cassidy found in his boot. One of the biggest
Speaker 1: evident chery leaps I've ever seen on the show before. Like,
Speaker 1: it's truly wild.
Speaker 2: Now I'm glad the fidget spinner got a moment to shine.
Speaker 3: Yeah this sure, Okay, it's gonna come and go with
Speaker 3: every other trend of little toys.
Speaker 2: You know that happens, that becomes popular, but it will
Speaker 2: live on forever.
Speaker 1: How have they never had. How have they never had
Speaker 1: a Tamagotchi. I would love to to see it be like, well,
Speaker 1: time of death must be two am because her Tomagatchi
Speaker 1: was dead by seven am because she didn't feed it,
Speaker 1: like I would love to see Tomagotchi folded into it.
Speaker 3: That Maybe that's for my specscript.
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, if warn Light doesn't hire you off
Speaker 2: of that alone, I don't know what's gonna happen.
Speaker 3: Wait, should we write an episode and submit it?
Speaker 1: I mean, not a bad idea, we know exactly how
Speaker 1: they go create it.
Speaker 3: Let's write a VU episode. We should you.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take some casting liberties, bring some people in
Speaker 2: and out. Suddenly there's like a hardcore pornographic fucking scene
Speaker 2: with rollins and coreesy. People are like, Wow, something really
Speaker 2: happened on SVU. A turn, A real turn. She getting fisted,
Speaker 2: you know, but.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, stay tuned for Lisa's episode Everybody, season
Speaker 1: twenty five. Okay, So, in the next scene, we see
Speaker 1: Stone popping that little ring right onto the fidget spinner
Speaker 1: while he's talking to someone about being a Mets fan.
Speaker 3: Camera moves.
Speaker 1: It's Reggie, the older brother, who was played by Brett Gray.
Speaker 3: He's a real cutie and he really doesn't want to
Speaker 3: talk about baseball.
Speaker 1: And Stone's like, you know, I used to play for
Speaker 1: the Cubs and then I got an injury and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. My whole identity was baseball, and I blamed myself,
Speaker 1: but there was no one to blame. So he's trying
Speaker 1: to get this kid to open up and it works,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I was so mad. I didn't know
Speaker 1: to where to put my anger, kind of like with
Speaker 1: Sammy and doctor West. And Reggie's like, what happened to
Speaker 1: Sammy is my fault? And doctor Stone is like, well,
Speaker 1: you couldn't have known what was going on, and Reggie's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I actually did, and I didn't do anything to protect him.
Speaker 1: And they're like what do you mean, And he's like,
Speaker 1: I was also a patient of doctor West. So now
Speaker 1: we're finding out Reggie's a victim as well. And he
Speaker 1: said he was eleven when his dad walked out and
Speaker 1: his mom was crying all the time. I couldn't tell
Speaker 1: her what was happening because she was so sad all
Speaker 1: the time. I didn't want to make it work, Like
Speaker 1: it's just very very sad that like a kid felt
Speaker 1: like he couldn't go to his parents and it's and
Speaker 1: he's a victim too, and so.
Speaker 3: He didn't tell anyone.
Speaker 1: He says he didn't want people to think he was
Speaker 1: gay or that he liked it, and he didn't want
Speaker 1: his friends to find out. And he says that the
Speaker 1: abuse went on for a year and then doctor West
Speaker 1: trying to buy him off, like really set him off,
Speaker 1: Like putting that envelope under the door, like that set
Speaker 1: him off. But also the fact that the mom was
Speaker 1: going to send Sammy to North Carolina because no word
Speaker 1: about sending Reggie. And you've already seen just in the
Speaker 1: few scenes they've been together. They're always together, they're hanging out,
Speaker 1: They're very close to these brothers. So he's like, I
Speaker 1: had to do something. I couldn't let him get away
Speaker 1: with this again. And the mom is like, how Like
Speaker 1: you see the mom.
Speaker 3: Through the one way mirror.
Speaker 1: He's basically doing this whole confession to the one way glass.
Speaker 1: So on the other side, his mom is watching him
Speaker 1: and she's like, how did I miss this? Like and
Speaker 1: she's so devastated. It's really really sad. But my feeling
Speaker 1: is in the real world, and I know it's a
Speaker 1: television show. But in the real world, if this kid
Speaker 1: had a lawyer, which he absolutely should have had a
Speaker 1: lawyer immediately, they would have nothing on him. There's like
Speaker 1: no chain of custody with the fidget spinner. It's a
Speaker 1: very weak, uh like connection, you know, like, oh, where
Speaker 1: did that There are one thousand million fidget spinners in
Speaker 1: this city, Like, where did that one come from? It
Speaker 1: was in the boot of this detective who also didn't
Speaker 1: was accused of doing the crime. Like, I just don't
Speaker 1: think it would hold up. I don't think Reggie would
Speaker 1: have seen a second of jail time if he hadn't
Speaker 1: confessed to everything, which he died.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if she gets a lawyer even after you
Speaker 2: now you got me thinking, because it's like he's underage
Speaker 2: and they were not interviewing him as a suspect.
Speaker 3: The mom wouldn't have approved that.
Speaker 2: So they're talking to a minor without a lawyer, without
Speaker 2: parental approval, without acknowledging that he's a suspect of the case.
Speaker 2: So I think the confession could be thrown out as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm liking this because I'm so worried for him. But
Speaker 2: you're right, the fidget spinner was chain of cust It's like, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like that's the only physical evidence linking
Speaker 1: him unless they go in like if there's footage of
Speaker 1: the knife, sure, I bet he ditched the knife. We
Speaker 1: never find the knife again, we never talk about the
Speaker 1: knife again, and then it maybe they found footage of him,
Speaker 1: since they did have footage of what's his name, Cassidy,
Speaker 1: So but I think that kid could have kept his
Speaker 1: mouth shut and walked. But whatever, this is a TV show.
Speaker 1: So we get this beautiful, like tragic scene of him
Speaker 1: doing his confession, and then in the next scene, Stone
Speaker 1: and Cassidy are getting a drink at some very swanky
Speaker 1: bar and Cassidy is like really pushing for Stone to
Speaker 1: go easy on Reggie, like don't punish him too badly,
Speaker 1: and he's like, this kid's gonna be quote unquote chasing
Speaker 1: demons away the rest of his life, which you don't
Speaker 1: often hear the name of the episode right in the
Speaker 1: in a sentence, and there it is, and Cassidy does
Speaker 1: this like whole monologue about the aftermath of abuse, and
Speaker 1: Stone is like, oh, okay, I get it, like Olivia
Speaker 1: never told me, and Cassidy goes, Olivia didn't know, and
Speaker 1: he's like, that's why I left SVU all those years ago.
Speaker 1: I just couldn't handle it. And he says it was
Speaker 1: his little league coach. It went on for a couple months.
Speaker 1: His dad found out and beat the shit out of
Speaker 1: the guy. So Stone is like, I'll see what I
Speaker 1: can do about Reggie. So it seems like Stone's gonna
Speaker 1: try to go easy on Reggie, but like, who knows.
Speaker 1: Then Cassidy leaves the bar, runs into Live on the Street,
Speaker 1: who I guess is on her way to meet Stone.
Speaker 1: I guess Cassidy was just kind of like bombing their meeting,
Speaker 1: and he apologizes for like putting her in that position
Speaker 1: and getting her all involved, and she's like, you would
Speaker 1: have done the same for me, And then he goes
Speaker 1: into all the Noah shit and lives like, don't even
Speaker 1: and he goes, I wasn't airing your dirty laundry to
Speaker 1: the DA, I was airing my own. I was trying
Speaker 1: to explain to Morrison, who I think is the guy
Speaker 1: who was investigating her, what happened between you and I
Speaker 1: and I had no idea you were under investigation.
Speaker 3: I would never do anything to hurt.
Speaker 1: Noah or you, and then he goes, come on, you
Speaker 1: were the love of my life, and that like takes
Speaker 1: Live a back.
Speaker 3: She's very shocked to hear.
Speaker 1: That, and she's like, I don't really know what I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to do with this information right now. And he's like,
Speaker 1: you gotta admit you were never going to bear your
Speaker 1: soul to me.
Speaker 3: Am I right?
Speaker 1: And she goes, yeah, you're right, like I never was,
Speaker 1: So we were never going to work out basically, and
Speaker 1: then they hug it out and Live walks into this
Speaker 1: swankie bar and then she looks back to go to like,
Speaker 1: you know, get a little look back and see Cassidy
Speaker 1: one more time and he's gone.
Speaker 3: And that's dick wolf Baby. Very good episode.
Speaker 1: So yeah, a touching, sad episode, a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of a big twist. I really didn't expect that,
Speaker 1: and I don't know anything about the crime it's based on.
Speaker 1: So after a few words from our sponsors, Lisa will
Speaker 1: take us on that journey.
Speaker 3: Okay, welcome back.
Speaker 2: So this is one of the worst cases I've ever researched.
Speaker 2: I think you guys will be not surprised slash surprised
Speaker 2: at how much oversight and how people just let shit
Speaker 2: happen for fucking decades.
Speaker 3: So this is about Earl Bradley.
Speaker 2: He is a former pediatrician from Delaware, and he's a
Speaker 2: convicted child rapist and some say he's the worst pedophile
Speaker 2: in American history. But of course the Gymnastics Association is
Speaker 2: trying to beat the record as fast as they can.
Speaker 2: But you know, I talked to her about this, like,
Speaker 2: this case is so fucked up, one of the worst
Speaker 2: things I've ever read. Impossible to find information about it.
Speaker 2: I had to subscribe to Delaware Painbers. New York Times
Speaker 2: did not have one thing I could even find, Like
Speaker 2: for a case this huge, maybe the Larry Nassar it
Speaker 2: was just because it was the Olympics and like these
Speaker 2: gymnasts that we really love and admire.
Speaker 3: That it broke out.
Speaker 2: But the amount of victims in this case and how
Speaker 2: horrific this is and what this shows about a lot
Speaker 2: of law, I'm just shocked that I really had to
Speaker 2: dig and it's get ready, I guess, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So he was indicted in twenty ten on four hundred
Speaker 2: and seventy one charges of molesting, raping, and exploiting one
Speaker 2: hundred and three child patients, but over fourteen hundred identified
Speaker 2: victims do exist.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so he wasn't charged for all of it,
Speaker 2: but a lot. And this is really hard and it's
Speaker 2: kind of like the priest situation where people trust their
Speaker 2: pediatricians instinctively and that helps kind of get away with abuse.
Speaker 3: For as long as he did.
Speaker 2: He was the chief of pediatrics at I hate It's
Speaker 2: be Baby, be Baby, the baby. It's like a funny name,
Speaker 2: and there's like a baby dressed as a bee.
Speaker 3: Whatever. So, so he.
Speaker 2: Was the chief of pediatrics at this medical center in
Speaker 2: Sussex County, Delaware, and then he opened his own practice
Speaker 2: called Babyes that's.
Speaker 3: What it is.
Speaker 2: And these babies were dressed as bees, but so it
Speaker 2: looked really cute. They had Volkswagen bugs with little decorations
Speaker 2: in the parking lot. It was like this boy like
Speaker 2: it looked like a real fun pediatric office background on him,
Speaker 2: just like what they say, kind of. He was a loner,
Speaker 2: very intelligent, which makes him more dangerous. He's evil and
Speaker 2: has never ever shown any remorse for any of his actions.
Speaker 2: Classic like his mom's raging alcoholic and then his dad's
Speaker 2: stockpiled photos of naked girls, so I don't know how
Speaker 2: he grew up. And his uncle, actually, at age eighty seven,
Speaker 2: was convicted of exposing himself to young girls in central Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: So he comes from a long line of creeps. I think.
Speaker 2: First accusations go as far back as nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 2: when he was completing his residency, a mom walked in
Speaker 2: on him with his hand down her two year old's diaper,
Speaker 2: and she reported it to the police, but after a
Speaker 2: brief investigation there was not sufficient evidence in the case
Speaker 2: was dropped.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not victim blaming in any way.
Speaker 1: I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't be in
Speaker 1: the room with a two year.
Speaker 3: Old like a ten year old.
Speaker 1: I understand, if they're getting their physical and they're a boy,
Speaker 1: a mom would probably step out of the room maybe,
Speaker 1: but like a two year old, I'm in the room
Speaker 1: the whole time. My pediatricians never alone with my kids.
Speaker 3: I'm just wondering.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of stuff. He actually did some
Speaker 2: of this in front of the parents as well.
Speaker 1: Oh that's that's like the gymnastics guys too, apparently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then also with the leaving alone. Obviously, I
Speaker 2: get that you would. So he basically his molesting he
Speaker 2: had like a room in the basement filled with prizes
Speaker 2: and toys and lollipops and all this fun stuff. So
Speaker 2: his thing was to be like, oh, why don't you
Speaker 2: go pay? Do you want to present?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I gotcha, and you trust your pediatrician.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so he would take the children to this
Speaker 2: room and molest them while the parents were just outside.
Speaker 3: Oh so that's kind of all of it.
Speaker 2: The mom all like did call him a sick bastard,
Speaker 2: and then he accused her of extortion, and that was
Speaker 2: kind of his way out of it. But no one
Speaker 2: also did anything, so who cares. But he was accused
Speaker 2: of this abuse in Pennsylvania, so he just moved to Delaware.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. So he had that accusation and he went,
Speaker 3: I'm out of here.
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety six, a nurse complained that Earl may
Speaker 2: have been inappropriately touching young female patients when taking your
Speaker 2: en samples. Again, nobody did anything, and then in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety eight started this like big path of hundreds of victims.
Speaker 3: Were they mostly female? Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was one hundred and two female and one boy. Wow,
Speaker 2: but that's that's what the ones charged. So we don't
Speaker 2: know the like thousand plus, but the ones charged it
Speaker 2: was ninety nine percent of female.
Speaker 3: So yeah, So in.
Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty eight started like this big path with hundreds
Speaker 2: of victims because it was determined in an internal review
Speaker 2: that his techniques were within mainstream of current pediatric practices,
Speaker 2: and he continued to work at the hospital till two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine. One mother said that he digitally penetrated
Speaker 2: her daughter while she was in the room, and she
Speaker 2: was like, what are you doing? And he had no concern.
Speaker 2: He wasn't even nervous. He's like, oh, I'm just checking
Speaker 2: the hymen. And she didn't report it until she learned
Speaker 2: other parents had seen the same thing happen to their
Speaker 2: children and actually complained. There was a complaint to police
Speaker 2: in two thousand and three and two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: nothing happened, And not only did nothing happen, he was
Speaker 2: able to punish and turn it around on parents. So
Speaker 2: one parent said that her eighteen month old was doing
Speaker 2: things in the bathtub that were not normal, and so
Speaker 2: she asked.
Speaker 3: The doctor about it.
Speaker 2: The doctor left the room, came back and said he
Speaker 2: contacted the Children's Advocacy Center of Delaware and that he
Speaker 2: would not let the mother leave his office until she
Speaker 2: spoke with the center because someone could be sexually harming
Speaker 2: her daughter.
Speaker 3: And it was him. I mean, that's like evil, evil, evil.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't allow her to hold her child and
Speaker 2: made the nurses watch the kid and threaten to call
Speaker 2: the police on the mother, So she was separated from
Speaker 2: an their hour from her child as she was on
Speaker 2: the phone with the center, and again nothing came of it,
Speaker 2: and nothing was resolved. One mother said, and I'm I'm
Speaker 2: saying all of them, so we understand what how much
Speaker 2: people fucking get away with and the idea of sufficient
Speaker 2: evidence or whatever the system is like fuck it, Like
Speaker 2: things need to change.
Speaker 3: This is so fucked up.
Speaker 2: So one mother said, she put her three year old
Speaker 2: kid in the car seat and the kid asked, why
Speaker 2: did doctor Bradley kiss my tongue? And they called the
Speaker 2: police that day, but prosecutors and police concluded there wasn't
Speaker 2: enough evidence to charge him even and there wasn't enough
Speaker 2: to get a search warrant, So that was that. Then
Speaker 2: she and her husband were advised to stay quiet because
Speaker 2: Bradley can sue them for slander.
Speaker 3: So they were and.
Speaker 1: He's picking kids that are like you know, three is
Speaker 1: like verbal. But it's not like you couldn't ever testify
Speaker 1: on the stand, you know, like yep.
Speaker 2: Ugh, Yeah, nothing was done, no action, And like you said,
Speaker 2: not only on young children, but he was smart in
Speaker 2: the ways of that. He prayed on lower income families,
Speaker 2: mother homes, people that were more vulnerable. And he also
Speaker 2: did not charge lower income patients for office visits and
Speaker 2: asked that the bills be paid out of his own salary.
Speaker 3: So he was this hero that was paying for poor
Speaker 3: people to come see him. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: He was caught in twenty ten, like us, after years
Speaker 2: in the field and thousands of patients seen one hundred
Speaker 2: and three child patients, one hundred and two girls, one boy,
Speaker 2: and some as young as three months old. This was
Speaker 2: around thirteen, but like you said, the average age of
Speaker 2: abuse was three years old. So what happened was while
Speaker 2: parents paid their bills, he led infants to a hidden,
Speaker 2: video monitored room, violated these children while muzzling their shrieks
Speaker 2: and sometimes sedating them with nitrous oxide. And he had
Speaker 2: toys and there was like Pinocchio everywhere in Little Mermaid
Speaker 2: and Candy and ice Cream, and it was just kind
Speaker 2: of part of the office. And again, you trust is
Speaker 2: kind of implicitly. So after finally obtaining a warrant, the
Speaker 2: police found video evidence of his crimes in his house.
Speaker 2: There were thirteen hours of footage of himself chasing and
Speaker 2: sexually abusing his victims extreme violence. Oh my god, if
Speaker 2: you want to fast forward, yeah, if you want to
Speaker 2: fast forward, this is like thirty seconds or a minute,
Speaker 2: Like this is pretty fucked up.
Speaker 1: But it's also like, again, this guy probably would have
Speaker 1: gone away with it if he wasn't such a fucking
Speaker 1: sick fuck that needed to have it on video, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like you the need to watch
Speaker 1: yourself do these like horrible crimes is like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even though people said it, but it's like, so
Speaker 2: what evidence do you need? So the kid said this
Speaker 2: guy touched it.
Speaker 1: Like.
Speaker 2: Fine, then come up with a better system, like what, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, I just don't understand
Speaker 2: how it's like, oh well that's it, Like yeah, what
Speaker 2: what I just I don't understand that. So, like, I
Speaker 2: this is pretty fuck So victims were on the verge
Speaker 2: of blacking out turning blue. He forced like he would
Speaker 2: choke them and like hold them down to perform oral
Speaker 2: on him. Some like children and diapers are screaming in terror.
Speaker 2: There is a girl on video being raped four times
Speaker 2: before she turned the age of two, Like the age
Speaker 2: is awful. It's like terrible stuff. And you know we
Speaker 2: talk about the mom in the SVU episode where it's
Speaker 2: like the pain and hector, the hector's dad and these
Speaker 2: parents being upset, and that's so much of the rage
Speaker 2: and guilt. Like obviously these children have trauma for years
Speaker 2: to come, but like being a parent and like knowing
Speaker 2: that you're sitting in the other room reading a magazine
Speaker 2: as this is happening, is like, of course.
Speaker 3: Oh this is like making me feel sick. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, and the lawyers and detectives were forced to watch
Speaker 2: all of this footage are still here the screen like
Speaker 2: they are haunted for life. And then five of the
Speaker 2: Sussex County forensic interviewers that were responsible for rehabing details
Speaker 2: with victims over several months all quit.
Speaker 3: They all quit their job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I can barely hear you talk about this
Speaker 1: right now, Like I can't imagine like, yeah, staying on
Speaker 1: the job.
Speaker 3: How is this not national news? I don't understand how.
Speaker 2: Is I mean, Delaware did a lot because of Bo
Speaker 2: Biden and he will talk about him and a lot
Speaker 2: of legislation and shit changed. But the fact that this
Speaker 2: is not I mean, we know why, you know, it's
Speaker 2: the same thing over and over, Like we fucking do
Speaker 2: this every week and every week is just like victims
Speaker 2: not being believed and people getting away with this crime
Speaker 2: for so long, and we do talk about this a lot.
Speaker 2: There's a reason he became a pediatrician and not a radiologist. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we have to remember that people like this seek jobs
Speaker 2: with children and hopefully for them, positions of power that
Speaker 2: demand trust and respect, like priests.
Speaker 3: And do you be guilty?
Speaker 2: Do you like, are you supposed to be suspicious of
Speaker 2: every doctor and anyone that's a teacher who works with
Speaker 2: children like I Which just how do you balance having
Speaker 2: an open mind in the world and living with an
Speaker 2: open heart and then knowing that these things go on?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you have to protect your children.
Speaker 2: This motherfucker, even with the video evidence, pled not guilty
Speaker 2: like scum. This person is scum. He played the blame game.
Speaker 2: He's like you know, the police didn't do this. He
Speaker 2: criticized the warrant. He said that the warrant didn't actually
Speaker 2: like comprehend where the videos were, like all of this stuff,
Speaker 2: and he kept trying to appeal, appeal, appeal constantly, And
Speaker 2: then they did move the trial to a different place
Speaker 2: because so many people's children were affected. So it's not
Speaker 2: a big town. So it's not a big town at all.
Speaker 2: It's a tiny state. And they couldn't find a like
Speaker 2: they could be touched. Yeah, So they moved from Sussex
Speaker 2: County to Newcastle and on June twenty third, twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: he was indicted on four hundred and seventy one charges.
Speaker 2: He got obviously like life, life, life, life, fourteen life
Speaker 2: sentences plus one hundred and sixty four years. They moved
Speaker 2: him out of Delaware to serve his time because a
Speaker 2: lot of his victims were serving time in the facility.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he just set off like the cycle of
Speaker 1: abuse for fourteen hundred children, Like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: We couldn't even go to jail in the town because
Speaker 2: so many victims Like Okay, So he's at the Cheshire
Speaker 2: Correctional Institution in Connecticut, something that Kara is not going
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm from Connecticut. This isn't the moment.
Speaker 1: No, but there are very famous murders that happened in Cheshire,
Speaker 1: Connecticut that we will be covering. Oh really episode yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: because there's ans for you about it.
Speaker 2: On September sixth, twenty twelve, the Supreme Court of Delaware
Speaker 2: firm the conviction. But this fucker just kept on appealing, like.
Speaker 3: Who is defending him? Like, how is he getting a lawyer?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 2: You know what's wild? And I thought about this, he
Speaker 2: had basic defenders. What are they called public defenders? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Wow, because I'm sure like no one would do it,
Speaker 1: No one, you public defender.
Speaker 3: Has to do it. Yeah, so that's what he said.
Speaker 2: He goes, I was denied my choice of attorney and
Speaker 2: the ones that were provided to me were ineffective.
Speaker 3: But it's like you're rich, so that yeah cares. That's
Speaker 3: how it works.
Speaker 2: So according to the law firm that handled the civil cases,
Speaker 2: they settled for one hundred and twenty three million dollars
Speaker 2: for all the former victims of Earl, and not every
Speaker 2: victim got the same and they were like, how do
Speaker 2: you quantify it? But like the more extreme cases, people
Speaker 2: got around half a million dollars and then some was
Speaker 2: around one to two thousand, so it really varied, but
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty three million is a lot of money.
Speaker 2: The money came from the Medical Center, hospital insures, the
Speaker 2: Medical Society of Delaware, and other defendants who were motherfuckers
Speaker 2: who knew and didn't do anything about it. They did
Speaker 2: demolish the doctor's office in twenty seventeen. They wanted it gone,
Speaker 2: and they fought hard to do it, and considering there's victims.
Speaker 3: Everywhere, they just they wanted to demolish it.
Speaker 2: Delaware did make dramatic changes in how they investigate and
Speaker 2: punish doctors. So the case led to the General Assembly
Speaker 2: passing a series of laws known as the Bradley Bills,
Speaker 2: and bo Biden led this was like the lead prosecutor
Speaker 2: for all of this, Like he truly revolutionized what happened
Speaker 2: in Delaware and protective of children. I didn't know much
Speaker 2: about bo Biden outside of like his father being sad
Speaker 2: that his child is dead, but it was just nice
Speaker 2: to read about this person that I've heard his name about.
Speaker 2: So so he created the Child Predator Task Force as
Speaker 2: soon as he took office and pre like Bradley Bills,
Speaker 2: forty eight doctors were disciplined by the state and since
Speaker 2: then like one hundred and seventy eight halfs so more
Speaker 2: and more people are getting caught in like being taken seriously.
Speaker 1: Because like if you if you listened to like any
Speaker 1: podcasts about this, like Doctor Death or like the second
Speaker 1: season of Doctor Death was like about this doctor who
Speaker 1: was just fully telling people they had cancer when they didn't,
Speaker 1: and like nurses were reporting him, like and they just
Speaker 1: weren't doing anything, you know, like this is Michigan, Like
Speaker 1: obviously it's probably state level unfortunately, but doctors can get
Speaker 1: away with so so much.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because the boards in the review people are
Speaker 2: other doctors. Yeah, and you'll hear some quotes that'll make
Speaker 2: you pretty pissed off. But it made it easier for
Speaker 2: the states to suspend the license of a doctor. And
Speaker 2: it also, which I find very important, increased finds imposed
Speaker 2: on people who fail to report suspicious conduct. This was
Speaker 2: inspired because they found out doctors not only suspected it,
Speaker 2: but would make jokes about it. It was a running
Speaker 2: joke that he was a rapist. Former president of the
Speaker 2: Medical Society of Delaware said it was really a poke
Speaker 2: in the eye to all physicians like this, like he's
Speaker 2: still defending it, Like this dude, like fuck you these doctors.
Speaker 2: I mean, not that women can't be predators at all,
Speaker 2: but like I don't go to men, yeah ever, unless
Speaker 2: I really have to it's a young person, but like
Speaker 2: I always request female doctors.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all my doctors are women.
Speaker 2: Because we covered the Honey episode where it's like this
Speaker 2: woman had evident and like fought so hard to get
Speaker 2: this doctor convicted. Then he's convicted also raping his stepdaughter.
Speaker 2: Still the town is fucking behind this doctor. So this
Speaker 2: guy the like the former president of the medical Society,
Speaker 2: He also said he thinks it's too strict and he
Speaker 2: just believes that the policies they have are already fair
Speaker 2: and strict, and especially like they do a good job
Speaker 2: on unethical subscribing of medication prescribing of medication, but like
Speaker 2: what does that have to do with molesting yea and
Speaker 2: thousands of like what are you talking about? Someone that
Speaker 2: needs to fucking investigate this guy. Outside of this like
Speaker 2: head guy of the medical thing, a handful of the
Speaker 2: local doctors were implicated in the case for not reporting
Speaker 2: the behavior. They all still hold active medical licenses. They
Speaker 2: had no disciplinary actions according to state records. So it's like,
Speaker 2: of course, there needs to be more strict laws and
Speaker 2: review boards and like whatever needs to happen. Considering local
Speaker 2: doctors were implicated, they knew, they didn't report behavior, still
Speaker 2: are able to practice medicine on children.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, bro, I think it needs to be more strict.
Speaker 3: So James P.
Speaker 2: Marvel Junior was an orthopedic surgeon, and he was a
Speaker 2: two time president of the State Medical Society, and he
Speaker 2: was a grandson of the Bebes co founder.
Speaker 3: I think it's just bib Is it just bibe? Okay? Yeah,
Speaker 3: like Bebes kids. Okay, Bibess.
Speaker 2: I I don't even know what it is.
Speaker 3: I only know about it because of you. Yeah, baby's kids.
Speaker 2: So Bibes co founder defended Bradley's record to the police
Speaker 2: and failed to investigate multiple allegations against the pediatricians inappropriate behavior.
Speaker 2: And it's impossible to like reach for comments, but we
Speaker 2: should investigate him.
Speaker 3: The victims are dealing with long lasting effects.
Speaker 2: Of course, you know, we talk a lot about the
Speaker 2: long lasting effects. Things can happen, Like you don't trust
Speaker 2: authority fear of intimacy, They get entangled in abusive relationships,
Speaker 2: hooked on drugs, alcohol, and suffer in a state of
Speaker 2: perpetual high alert. Patti Daily Lewis, who is the executive
Speaker 2: director of the Bo Biden Foundation, said that she had
Speaker 2: a man push her up against a wall and say
Speaker 2: how she was ruining a man's life in defense of
Speaker 2: the doctor.
Speaker 3: And he said, you better have video, and they did.
Speaker 2: So what now, dude, why are we so willing to
Speaker 2: defend rapists?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has to literally be video. It's like video
Speaker 1: or nothing.
Speaker 2: Because it happens constantly, constantly, are we this is so
Speaker 2: stating to pretend this doesn't happen, Like I overly believe everything.
Speaker 2: Now I don't give a shit, Like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: Pushing the investigator up against a wall? Hmm, it's disgusting.
Speaker 2: Child advocate doctor Eli Neuberg. He is a professor at
Speaker 2: Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 3: Hello Neil Bear connect.
Speaker 2: He mentioned that there is a reluctance to act because
Speaker 2: if the purp is one of their colleagues and the
Speaker 2: reporting would ruin that man's life and career, so they
Speaker 2: would much sooner just not report it, even if it
Speaker 2: endangers children, no comment.
Speaker 1: Remember the Hippocratic oath is first do no harm, Like
Speaker 1: you're doing harm by not reporting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would really like to know what your mom
Speaker 2: feels about this case or thoughts are like inside information.
Speaker 3: I will ask her about it. I'll ask him out
Speaker 3: if about it.
Speaker 2: Like why don't all pediatricians learn about this in school?
Speaker 2: Like are people learning about this in medical school? And
Speaker 2: like what happens the signs? Like what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: The state now also requires physicians to undergo state and
Speaker 2: federal background checks and will revoke licenses of those who
Speaker 2: are convicted of felony sex offense, which seems pretty basic,
Speaker 2: but back like, that's what I meant.
Speaker 3: He left from Pennsylvania to.
Speaker 2: Delaware, and I found a few other cases of people
Speaker 2: just moving states. It's very connected, like the priests and
Speaker 2: the medical boards are all different states to states, so
Speaker 2: you can kind of just keep running around molesting people.
Speaker 2: The disciplinary process became more transparent as well. The hearings
Speaker 2: used to be held in like an executive session, and
Speaker 2: now they are public and complaints filed by the state.
Speaker 2: Disciplinary orders and consent agreements are available on the state's
Speaker 2: Licensed Verification website, but for doctors only see it if
Speaker 2: the board takes discipline against them, But for nurses and
Speaker 2: chiropractors it's public even before the hearing happens, which I
Speaker 2: don't understand.
Speaker 3: They get different privileges. Yeah, doctors probably, you know, obviously not.
Speaker 2: But doctors and pilots seem to have the same vibe
Speaker 2: to me, like God complexes, I can save everything, everyone
Speaker 2: needs me to be here like. They act like that,
Speaker 2: so I guess they get treated like that, and then
Speaker 2: all the nurses are doing all the work.
Speaker 3: Yea truly patient care.
Speaker 2: But nationwide it's STI really hard to judge the problems
Speaker 2: because doctors benefit from self regulating. It's a self regulating
Speaker 2: profession and all, and it's a secretive disciplinary process, so
Speaker 2: it's like all these doctors just deciding for each other
Speaker 2: if they are Britists or not. The twenty sixteen Atlanta
Speaker 2: Journal Constitution and Investigation found that the system shielded Bradley
Speaker 2: from at least eight accusations of sexual misconduct from nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety four to two thousand and nine. Also, the hospital
Speaker 2: has now instituted a robust internal reporting and oversight process
Speaker 2: to respond to allegations of doctor abuse.
Speaker 3: According to senior executives at the hospital.
Speaker 2: But lol, like I don't believe it, but they do
Speaker 2: now require chaperones on any intimate exams on patients under
Speaker 2: the age of sixteen. And let's all remember, unfortunately sixty
Speaker 2: percent of children are abused by people that the family.
Speaker 3: Trusts and knows.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, again, how do you be suspicious
Speaker 2: constantly and vigilant and open hearted and what do you do?
Speaker 2: And uh yeah, obviously when you're like, I would never
Speaker 2: leave my kid, Like, if you're listening, I don't know how.
Speaker 3: You leave your kid alone at a doctor's office of
Speaker 3: it or ever. Again, Yeah, I don't know. I would never.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's a million parents that
Speaker 1: are like, I was vigilant, I never did anything, and
Speaker 1: this still happened to my kid, you know, like there's just.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, not blaming them.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying no, no, I know it's precautions, and
Speaker 2: it's just like, yeah, I was a parent hearing this,
Speaker 2: I would never leave a doctor room again ever.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm just like really upset that there's not
Speaker 2: more information about this.
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, like I don't understand why this isn't like
Speaker 1: up with Manson like this is horrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: Sometimes honestly, there are cases like this that are just
Speaker 1: so horrific that it's like the huge like society like
Speaker 1: can't handle hearing about it.
Speaker 3: And there's still me.
Speaker 2: And remember the Larry Nasar case, Like people were mad
Speaker 2: that the judge was a bitch. Do you remember that,
Speaker 2: People were like that judge is being really judgy and bitchy,
Speaker 2: Like people were mad at the female judge.
Speaker 3: For being not nice to Larry Nassar or.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just like the way everyone treated Simone Biles
Speaker 2: when she exited out of the Olympics and being so
Speaker 2: mad at her and you toughen it out and you
Speaker 2: play sports and be at champion, like totally negating and
Speaker 2: not acknowledging the years of systematic abuse these athletes have
Speaker 2: gone through. And how we just refuse to help stop
Speaker 2: the systems of abuse or symptoms of abuse, but also
Speaker 2: like disregard it and don't like it's just fucked, it's
Speaker 2: just fucked.
Speaker 3: I don't know how we do this, to be honest,
Speaker 3: they really yeah, yeah, all right, well I.
Speaker 2: Researched this all day and then I went to do
Speaker 2: shows and people are like, what did you do? All
Speaker 2: day and then I start talking about it, and then
Speaker 2: I see all their faces and I go, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I can't just like tell people this. People are eating
Speaker 2: chicken tenders, dipping sauces, and then everyone's just upset.
Speaker 1: But we do have a like see a lovely interview,
Speaker 1: such a good interview that's gonna cheer you right up.
Speaker 2: This guest really like we left smiling, We left smiling, happy,
Speaker 2: a dream person.
Speaker 3: And I think you guys are gonna love this.
Speaker 1: Guest, like we're ready for you to go, you know,
Speaker 1: back up on the roller coaster after this interview, So see.
Speaker 3: It in a sec.
Speaker 1: We always have fun talking to our guests, but today
Speaker 1: we really had the best time talking to this actor.
Speaker 3: He is very accomplished.
Speaker 1: He's known for his role as Jamal on Netflix's On
Speaker 1: My Block, and you can hear his vocal stylings both
Speaker 1: as a singer and as a voice on the animated
Speaker 1: series Star Trek Prodigy. But you know him from today's
Speaker 1: episode as Reggie Price. Guys, we had the best time
Speaker 1: talking to Brett Gray.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Bett, thank.
Speaker 1: You so much for being here doing tech stuff.
Speaker 4: I love that you guys are obsessed with law and
Speaker 4: orders because me, you are too. You know, I don't
Speaker 4: know if I actually am or if everyone generally is
Speaker 4: and has just seen millions of episodes because they're always
Speaker 4: on yeh, but I like to think I'm I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2: So when you got the part or even the audition,
Speaker 2: do you remember being super jazzed?
Speaker 5: Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 4: I also feel like any actor like coming out of
Speaker 4: New York City Law and Order is like a staple.
Speaker 4: Like if you don't have a Law and Order episode,
Speaker 4: you have not made it as a like film or
Speaker 4: television actor yet in New York City?
Speaker 2: Who are you most excited to me? Do you have
Speaker 2: any scoop? I guess we'll start right away.
Speaker 4: So like really, of course, Marishka because like what like
Speaker 4: I'm sure everyone says that, but also Ice, I was
Speaker 4: really nervous. Yeah, everybody was super cool. Ice like taught
Speaker 4: me how to make crack in our kitchen, was like
Speaker 4: give me the ingredients of the lowdown and like telling
Speaker 4: me what to use and stuff like that, just while
Speaker 4: they were setting up the shot. And then uh, like
Speaker 4: Mariska played basketball with us.
Speaker 5: And ate everyone to pieces he could.
Speaker 4: He scored more than any other person on the crew
Speaker 4: that was playing with us, and like the younger brother
Speaker 4: character of mine, and at like a certain point, I
Speaker 4: just ended up just.
Speaker 5: Like being like, forget it.
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna be good like I'm just gonna sit
Speaker 4: down and watch her do it.
Speaker 3: That's the most shocking thing we've heard.
Speaker 1: But no one has ever told us anything about Marishka's
Speaker 1: athletic abilities.
Speaker 4: I'm not like breaching an NDA or something or like, No,
Speaker 4: the risk of fans are going to come and like
Speaker 4: find me now.
Speaker 3: They're happy to know this, so they love like that
Speaker 3: kind of info. Yeah, where are you though? Is it
Speaker 3: a concrete What's where are you?
Speaker 4: This is my apartment and it's super like industrial.
Speaker 5: It's like right outside the bridge in my city.
Speaker 4: So I get like a total like riverview, but the
Speaker 4: ceiling is concrete.
Speaker 3: Where are you in New York? Philly?
Speaker 5: Philly?
Speaker 3: Oh Philly?
Speaker 1: Sorry, yes, I know you're from Philly. I didn't know
Speaker 1: if you were working.
Speaker 3: Yes, another, this.
Speaker 5: Is like my home base, got it?
Speaker 3: Got it?
Speaker 2: How did you make the decision for home base to
Speaker 2: be Philly versus you know the La New York Classic.
Speaker 5: Well it's close to New York, but nowhere near the
Speaker 5: price of New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I really enjoy like taking my day trips
Speaker 4: to New York City and like not like my apartment
Speaker 4: here would probably be like eighteen million dollars a week
Speaker 4: in New York City. So it just made the most sense.
Speaker 4: And then I just can't do LA. I can't do it.
Speaker 1: That's where we are. But I love LA. But I
Speaker 1: see some people don't like it. It's fine, I'm.
Speaker 3: Trying to get rich so I can go back to
Speaker 3: New York.
Speaker 4: It's great to be there while i'm working, Yeah, But
Speaker 4: then like to just live there as my life, I
Speaker 4: just can't.
Speaker 5: There's something my body needs to be in motion.
Speaker 3: It seems like you are young, You're killing it.
Speaker 2: You're just really succeeding. What are the funnest moments you've
Speaker 2: had so far? We were scrolling your Instagram. You're like
Speaker 2: on the floor seats, You're on SVU, you're a series
Speaker 2: regular in a show. Tell us like the highlights of
Speaker 2: your life or since you've gotten so successful.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm glad it looks like that, because I feel
Speaker 5: like my life is falling apart every day.
Speaker 4: No, I'm just I guess I'm having the time of
Speaker 4: my life. I'm not sure yet. I guess like when
Speaker 4: I look back on this time, I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 4: I was having the time of my life, but yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm having on. It's really cool to like come from
Speaker 4: New York City and then end up like in film
Speaker 4: and TV, because in New York everyone just tells you
Speaker 4: like that's gonna be the hardest possible thing, like needling
Speaker 4: the Haysack thing, to like have any sort of film career.
Speaker 4: So that's super dope. And I love to travel, like,
Speaker 4: I love to go new places. I love food so much,
Speaker 4: and so it's been dope to like get to go around.
Speaker 4: I've been to Korea, I've been all over America at
Speaker 4: this point, Mexico. I've just had so many different experiences
Speaker 4: with other cultures and their sort of cuisine and just
Speaker 4: the civilization of it all. So that's the really fun
Speaker 4: part for me, is like collecting all of these experiences
Speaker 4: that I would never have had I not like been
Speaker 4: in film and so like even like the floor seats
Speaker 4: and stuff like that was my first football game ever,
Speaker 4: So I was like, oh, great, that's that's dope to
Speaker 4: be like on the floor seats my first game and
Speaker 4: I sang the national anthem. So it was just like,
Speaker 4: I never have to ever go back to a football
Speaker 4: game again because what's going to top that experience?
Speaker 5: Oh so it's great?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well okay, wait, So speaking of your singing,
Speaker 1: So I was watching your music video and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy is giving me like very big usher vibes.
Speaker 1: And then I go on your Wikipedia and it's like
Speaker 1: he thinks his music is like Usher, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: it's working. It's obviously working because I immediately thought about Usher.
Speaker 3: So what's the story with your music? Has that always
Speaker 3: been a thing? Is that?
Speaker 1: Like are you going to try to do that? Like
Speaker 1: concurrently with acting? Is one bigger than the other in
Speaker 1: your life or what's up with that?
Speaker 4: I feel like it's one of those things where like, Okay,
Speaker 4: my first dream of what I've always been doing came true.
Speaker 4: Now like I'm trying to be like, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 4: to be selfish and see if I can do two
Speaker 4: things at the same time. And so, like I've always
Speaker 4: been in, I started off acting in like a performing
Speaker 4: arts training camp when I was like six seven, eight
Speaker 4: nine ten.
Speaker 5: All the way uptil high school.
Speaker 4: I would go every single summer after school and like
Speaker 4: on the weekends, and it would be like vocal dance, acting,
Speaker 4: we'd have like a movement class and all different types
Speaker 4: of electives, whether it be like tap or you know,
Speaker 4: African dance or martial arts, just anything like to do
Speaker 4: with your body and like a form of art that
Speaker 4: you're trying to perfect.
Speaker 5: And so like I'd.
Speaker 4: Always had like sort of a well a well rounded
Speaker 4: artistic training experience, so it doesn't necessarily feel like I
Speaker 4: have two things. It feels like I'm just trying to
Speaker 4: like fully encompass the whole world into what all I do.
Speaker 4: Because I don't even know if I would describe myself
Speaker 4: before my film career, even as an actor, I would
Speaker 4: describe it as sort of like an artist, because it
Speaker 4: would go like, ah, I have a show at this
Speaker 4: restaurant called Warm Daddy's and I'm singing, you know, a
Speaker 4: thirty minute set there of cover songs while people eat,
Speaker 4: and then next week I'm doing a commercial, and then
Speaker 4: the week after that, like I'm going to this event
Speaker 4: and talking about something. So it was like the film
Speaker 4: thing just happened to be the biggest thing once the
Speaker 4: show came.
Speaker 5: But it's always been a.
Speaker 4: Variety of all the arts in my life that have
Speaker 4: kept me sort of like affloat financially until now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just say yes to.
Speaker 4: Say yes yes, Like now I want to say he's Regular,
Speaker 4: So you know, I don't have to necessarily have a
Speaker 4: music career, but if I can, yeah, why not?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: So wait, okay, so let's talk about the series Regular.
Speaker 1: You're on the show on my Block with my friend
Speaker 1: Jess Garcia.
Speaker 4: I literally one of the best friends I've ever had
Speaker 4: in my mind.
Speaker 3: I love that she's so great.
Speaker 1: I worked with her on something for a while before
Speaker 1: she was on on My Block, and she like that
Speaker 1: show is like killing it, Like it's so popular.
Speaker 3: You guys are all like it's amazing.
Speaker 1: And we interviewed Paula Garcas on our podcast like a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago.
Speaker 5: She actually directed episode two of the last season.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: She was telling us that she's been getting into the
Speaker 1: director killing the game. Yeah, so awesome. So, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I really have a question. I'm
Speaker 1: just kind of like on my block, what's up? Like
Speaker 1: you loving it?
Speaker 5: It's dope. I loved it. It's over.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, Yeah, it's our season four. We just had season
Speaker 4: four like last October it was our final season, which
Speaker 4: was awesome because it was four years. I was really
Speaker 4: five years because of COVID, But I felt like that
Speaker 4: was my college experience, like on my block, me and
Speaker 4: like my friends putting on this show and sort of
Speaker 4: like learning who we were as people and who we
Speaker 4: wanted to be as actors and artists, and you know,
Speaker 4: getting to see everyone grow up from like hopping off
Speaker 4: the plane and like living together the first season and
Speaker 4: trying to like uber around and figure out the different
Speaker 4: neighborhoods in La So now everyone has their own homes and.
Speaker 5: You know, having children.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like setting roots and like just being a
Speaker 4: part of the journey of everyone's life.
Speaker 5: It feels really dope. Like I feel like I had
Speaker 5: a very lucky, sort of like one in a million experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2: Is there anything you learned on the SVU set since
Speaker 2: it was like early on in your career that you
Speaker 2: have taken with you to your future projects.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, I guess, don't take things too seriously. Like
Speaker 4: observing Mariska of course, was one of the biggest reasons
Speaker 4: why I was excited about being on the show, like
Speaker 4: as opposed to also just watching the show. But there's
Speaker 4: something about her that's super comfortable and collaborative on set,
Speaker 4: and I feel like I've taken that with me now.
Speaker 4: I hope I'm not like annoying to directors and stuff,
Speaker 4: because I always like ask like.
Speaker 5: Oh, what would you think about this or whatever? They say, No,
Speaker 5: it is what it is. But you know, I always
Speaker 5: try and like, you know, collaborate in some way.
Speaker 4: And I feel like I learned that on Law and
Speaker 4: Order even before I started on my block. It just
Speaker 4: was the way she and she jokes in between unless
Speaker 4: the scene is serious, and like there's just like an
Speaker 4: old were all like ethic that she has on set
Speaker 4: that feels approachable but also professional, and so I just
Speaker 4: feel like that's how any like lead or number one
Speaker 4: on a call she should be. Like it's sort of
Speaker 4: like she fully took on the responsibility of like owning
Speaker 4: the culture of the set and making sure that it
Speaker 4: was light and you know, fun, but at the same
Speaker 4: time things were happening and even though they were happening quickly,
Speaker 4: that they were you know, being done effectively.
Speaker 5: So I always take those types of things with me, Like.
Speaker 4: When I get on a set, how I like to
Speaker 4: be to other people, what would I like the feeling
Speaker 4: to be so that it made me super comfortable. And
Speaker 4: I really felt like going on a show like that
Speaker 4: where there's millions of guests a season, it would be
Speaker 4: just sort of like you know, whenever.
Speaker 5: You go and do your thing and then leave.
Speaker 4: And it very much felt like I was a part
Speaker 4: of the family for the week that I was there.
Speaker 4: So I really appreciated that.
Speaker 1: It's just like that's overwhelmingly what people say, and it's
Speaker 1: really cool to you. Yeah, like that everyone loved feels
Speaker 1: so comfortable there. Speaking of family, I like loved your
Speaker 1: relationship with your little brother in this episode. You guys
Speaker 1: like seem like you seemed like it was so close,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, truly you killed for your little brother.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, how was it working with that actor?
Speaker 3: Like the little brother?
Speaker 5: So dope?
Speaker 4: So when I first met him, uh, we instantly clicked
Speaker 4: and I had no idea he was playing my little brother,
Speaker 4: and like we just met kind of at the audition,
Speaker 4: and I kind of think in my mind that that's
Speaker 4: kind of what they saw. Like someone in the waiting
Speaker 4: room was like, you know, those two are like playing
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 5: It sort of like clicks. He had this game out,
Speaker 5: Super Smash Bros.
Speaker 4: That I always used to play growing up, and I
Speaker 4: was like, I just leaned over and was like, I
Speaker 4: will kill you in this game.
Speaker 5: And from then on it was sort of just like
Speaker 5: we were actually brothers.
Speaker 4: And then his parent was there and like she was
Speaker 4: super dope and like I got to meet like some
Speaker 4: of his family and stuff, and we all did dinner
Speaker 4: before we shot.
Speaker 5: So yeah, by the time we got there, I was
Speaker 5: already kind of like, you know.
Speaker 3: Friends, do you remember where you ate?
Speaker 5: I have no idea.
Speaker 4: It was somewhere near Pier whatever that is twenty three.
Speaker 2: We'll get back to SVU. But where shoot. People get
Speaker 2: a Philly cheese steak.
Speaker 5: You're number one, honestly nowhere but Philly. That's number one.
Speaker 4: If you go to Philly, you have to go like
Speaker 4: stay away from the tourist traps, like they're gonna tell
Speaker 4: you like pets and Gino's and gyms and Lorenzo's, but
Speaker 4: it's lies. Those are just the ones closest to like
Speaker 4: the stadium, and people just go there after the stadium
Speaker 4: because there's nothing else to do. But you have to
Speaker 4: go get like a Philly cheese stake from like a
Speaker 4: true mom and pop shop in Philly. You have to
Speaker 4: kind of go sometimes to somewhere that might be a
Speaker 4: little scary.
Speaker 5: But that is where you're gonna get it anywhere, but
Speaker 5: the tourist traps.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, great, all right, good tips. That's good tips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your interaction your brother was amazing. Also your interaction.
Speaker 2: Did you have to learn how to fidget spin naturally?
Speaker 2: And was a fidget spinner a part of your day
Speaker 2: to day life?
Speaker 5: I had to learn how to fidget spin. I actually
Speaker 5: had no idea what it even was or what it
Speaker 5: was for. And now I guess I kind of know.
Speaker 5: It's just one of those anxious things that people do
Speaker 5: because why not. But totally was introduced to that that
Speaker 5: day and never have used it again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you got got from a fidget spinner, you.
Speaker 5: Know, got got from a fidget spinner. It was a
Speaker 5: nice one too. It was like heavy gold. These kids
Speaker 5: are on it.
Speaker 2: Did you ever think what happened to your character after?
Speaker 3: I hope he got a light sentence or off. I
Speaker 3: bet he would have. Do you think about that?
Speaker 4: I feel like he's one of those people who like
Speaker 4: didn't get a light light sentence and like is in
Speaker 4: jail for the rest of his life, and like now
Speaker 4: he has like tattoos, corn rose and straight back braids
Speaker 4: and like you know, stick marks from being like stabbed
Speaker 4: with toothbrushes and ship and just like.
Speaker 3: But his brother needs him.
Speaker 5: He didn't know.
Speaker 4: I do feel like he has like high levels of
Speaker 4: respect because of what happened.
Speaker 5: And I feel like maybe there was some connective tissue.
Speaker 4: To some other inmates there like that know sort of
Speaker 4: what he did and would never say it, but like
Speaker 4: respect him because they knew that whatever. But he definitely
Speaker 4: has hell tattoos and straight back graides and he wraps
Speaker 4: at this point and he's really buff.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 2: You really spoke like a true sv fan, because the episodes,
Speaker 2: do you there's some haunting heart.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 2: Do you have any that stick out in your mind
Speaker 2: that you watch all the time or when it's on
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, hell yeah.
Speaker 3: This one.
Speaker 4: I've seen so many of them that I was absolutely
Speaker 4: devastated by that.
Speaker 5: Like I can even.
Speaker 4: I can't even myself is when like the things that
Speaker 4: really get me, or when stuff happens to Marishka like
Speaker 4: in her life on the show, and.
Speaker 3: What doesn't happen to her. I mean, everything happened to
Speaker 3: that woman.
Speaker 5: Happened.
Speaker 4: But no, I'm gonna like definitely shameless plug and say
Speaker 4: my episode because that was to me super heartbreaking. Like yeah,
Speaker 4: and Pernelle Walker, the woman who played my mother, her
Speaker 4: performance just like learning of this all and understanding was
Speaker 4: just like it's so hard for me to watch.
Speaker 1: But your confession was really really like heartbreak, Like how
Speaker 1: did you gear up for that scene? Like you had
Speaker 1: to like fully just like with I think Philip Winchester, right,
Speaker 1: is that the guys the yeah, the actor that you
Speaker 1: were with, like so.
Speaker 2: And you had to do it in front of a
Speaker 2: mirror looking at yourself crying, which see it was that hard.
Speaker 5: Oh no, that's not actually true.
Speaker 4: So what happened was so first off, this was my
Speaker 4: first day on set, so this scene how I met everyone.
Speaker 5: So I actually it was lucky that it was like.
Speaker 4: That because I was so nervous that I was very
Speaker 4: prepared and so like it was my first day and
Speaker 4: I really wanted to do a good job. So I
Speaker 4: think if it had been like day three and I've
Speaker 4: been comfortable, I wouldn't have been able to like tap
Speaker 4: into the same sort of like emotional availability. But it
Speaker 4: was super scary because when you're shooting through the two
Speaker 4: way mirror, it looks like on camera when you look
Speaker 4: at it this way, it's me, but I can actually
Speaker 4: see Marisko and Parnell on the other side watching my scene.
Speaker 4: So I'm literally staring through the mirror at them even
Speaker 4: though my reflection is there in camera, it doesn't.
Speaker 5: I don't know how that works at all. It was
Speaker 5: really really stressful.
Speaker 3: Well you killed it, thank you.
Speaker 4: And Maria actually said she's like, it's Monday morning and
Speaker 4: it's the first scene.
Speaker 5: Like, who are you?
Speaker 3: You're good?
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, thank you. I hope you're not
Speaker 5: just being nice, but even if you are, I need that.
Speaker 3: And what is what's next?
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm on a new show. It's on a very
Speaker 5: very very popular streaming platform and it's an original series,
Speaker 5: and I don't think I can say what it is,
Speaker 5: but it should be announced like within the next month
Speaker 5: or so.
Speaker 3: Amazing.
Speaker 4: The series regular again, so starting a new journey. And
Speaker 4: the character is kind of like kind of similar to
Speaker 4: what it wasn't on my block, but like a little older,
Speaker 4: a little bit more mature. He's like kind of the
Speaker 4: like he's the teenager of the group that like drives
Speaker 4: the car.
Speaker 5: So there's that like freedom sort of feeling to him
Speaker 5: and stuff like that. So I'm super excited.
Speaker 4: It's all people of color involved and like, so I'm
Speaker 4: keeping that connective tissue with like sort of the type
Speaker 4: of I want to have.
Speaker 5: So I'm excited. And then music, there's so much new
Speaker 5: music coming right now.
Speaker 4: I'm working with some like crazy incredible people that like
Speaker 4: I kind of never would have expected that.
Speaker 5: I don't really know if I can say that either, but.
Speaker 3: I love it. Keep it all a mystery, keep it all.
Speaker 4: I have worked with like super incredible, Like when I
Speaker 4: say legendary artists, the artists I will say I just
Speaker 4: like so I'm super like thankful just like sponging up
Speaker 4: all these amaz experiences.
Speaker 2: And if you were to come back to SVU, what
Speaker 2: kind of character would you like to come back?
Speaker 4: I want like a three episode arc and this time
Speaker 4: I want to play like, you know, like a young
Speaker 4: cop who knows a bunch of the kids in the neighborhood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like maybe a U see like undercover.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I would love to like help a kid
Speaker 4: cover something up because I believe in him or something,
Speaker 4: and then I'm in it too, and then end up
Speaker 4: back into.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's a great idea. Great, these are
Speaker 1: great pictures.
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. And favorite craft service snack.
Speaker 4: Just in case no one has ever said this before.
Speaker 4: The craft services at Law and Order. It is a
Speaker 4: full almost like warehouse of just all different types of
Speaker 4: food and snacks, and there's like a live egg bar
Speaker 4: and salad bar and they will cook you like meat
Speaker 4: in front of your face. It's like ridiculous, wow, But
Speaker 4: my favorite crafty snack. I say all of that to
Speaker 4: say all of those options are available to me, and
Speaker 4: I still will do frosted flakes and some orange juice
Speaker 4: just to take back to my trailer for no reason.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love frosted flakes.
Speaker 1: You can eat them with milk, you can eat them
Speaker 1: without without milk.
Speaker 5: It's a top five cereal and people know it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like a gift of iced tea eating cereal.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen it? He's like going like this.
Speaker 2: Well, and I did get a retweet post by him.
Speaker 2: It was exciting. I was like, what's in the bowl ice?
Speaker 2: And he wrote, you know that's the serial dance. And
Speaker 2: I celebrated that that was a big day.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, wait, speaking of social media, can we talk
Speaker 1: about your you have you have like four million followers
Speaker 1: on TikTok or something.
Speaker 3: What are you doing on there? What's bringing them all in?
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 1: I saw you doing a handstand on your Instagram with
Speaker 1: a joint in your mouth.
Speaker 3: That was fun? Is that what? Oh?
Speaker 5: That was my trainer?
Speaker 3: But everyone you were upside down. I couldn't see and
Speaker 3: I wish that was.
Speaker 5: Me, Like his back looks crazy in that. So I've
Speaker 5: been like just claiming it as my own.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, well I didn't see the face.
Speaker 4: If I could do a handstand with a joint in
Speaker 4: my mouth, that's all you would see me post postal media.
Speaker 4: But unfortunately, no, that wasn't me. But I thought it
Speaker 4: was amazing and had to claim it.
Speaker 3: I like, your trainer is kind of a stoner too.
Speaker 3: That's nice he is.
Speaker 5: And why you know it is what it is? You
Speaker 5: guys are in la.
Speaker 3: Know I O name.
Speaker 5: Just got Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I love Brett Gray. He's gonna be a star, guys.
Speaker 1: I mean he's already a star, but like I think
Speaker 1: he's on the rise.
Speaker 3: Like keep your yeah, you heard it here.
Speaker 2: First, he has the right attitude, you know, he like
Speaker 2: is killing it but doesn't think he is, but is
Speaker 2: still happy and fulfilled. Yeah, that's like the perfect little
Speaker 2: then diagram of creativity.
Speaker 1: Totally such a cutie and so fun and cool.
Speaker 3: What wasn't fun and cool was today's episode?
Speaker 2: I mean, oh, yeah, this is probably the most horrific.
Speaker 2: Like listening to it, I've always mad at myself for
Speaker 2: being so graphic, but I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, No, it was truly one of the most
Speaker 1: horrible like crimes that we've ever covered, and I think
Speaker 1: it's important that we covered it because you said that
Speaker 1: it was so hard to find information, and that's wild
Speaker 1: to me, like that this guy is not more of
Speaker 1: a not household name, but more of a name, because
Speaker 1: when you talk about people like this, then people are
Speaker 1: more like aware and on alert that this kind of
Speaker 1: stuff happens, you know, And it's just sough.
Speaker 2: It's such a horrible, horrible, well, and it begs the question,
Speaker 2: if like this isn't a huge international or national news story,
Speaker 2: what else what other horrific you know, hundreds of people
Speaker 2: victims are also being hidden. That's like what all sparks
Speaker 2: me too. But it's also now every time I passed woods,
Speaker 2: I go how many bodies are in there? I know, Oh,
Speaker 2: if I'm in a name of how many who's trapped
Speaker 2: in a base?
Speaker 3: I see a water tank?
Speaker 1: A water tank, I'm like, oh God, there's a body
Speaker 1: in there.
Speaker 3: Like you know, I'm looking. I'm looking for bodies, I know.
Speaker 2: And last night my friend was like, well, watch something
Speaker 2: fun before bed, and I was like, yeah, you're right,
Speaker 2: And then I was like, I have to read about
Speaker 2: the war.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I know you're vacillating between war and your murder podcast.
Speaker 3: It's a lot going on for you right now. I
Speaker 3: think you need to watch in Canto. I do, but
Speaker 3: let me watch it with a kid. Let me.
Speaker 2: I gotta watch it with one of the kids, because
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'll sit down and watch in
Speaker 2: Canto alone.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Rosie's hyped for it right now, but I want
Speaker 3: to know.
Speaker 2: But you know this, Do we talk about this on
Speaker 2: the potterity that like Disney didn't make any muscle Girl toys? Yeah,
Speaker 2: because they thought no one would like her, and then
Speaker 2: all the kids want the muscle Girl.
Speaker 1: When I tell you that today already. Rosie has made
Speaker 1: me play her song six times. She doesn't like, we
Speaker 1: don't talk about Bruno. She goes, I don't like this.
Speaker 1: Put the pressure song back on. It's the only one
Speaker 1: she likes. And what I heard was that they didn't
Speaker 1: want to make that character have muscles. They wanted her
Speaker 1: to just be skinny and like freakishly strong, and they
Speaker 1: fought for her to like be muscly and big, and
Speaker 1: I it's so funny, like so many kids, she is
Speaker 1: the best character.
Speaker 2: I think, well yeah, and it's like, yeah, Disney kids
Speaker 2: don't have your standards on them yet. Yeah, like their
Speaker 2: children and their babies, and so everyone just thought, I
Speaker 2: guess they would like the young, fun princess or whoever
Speaker 2: in canto is.
Speaker 1: Which, of course our friend No, our friend's daughter loves
Speaker 1: the perfect one because that's how she is. She likes
Speaker 1: perfect shit. Rosie likes the strong one because that's who
Speaker 1: Rosy is. She's into like crazy people that can throw
Speaker 1: donkeys in the air, you know, like that's it's funny.
Speaker 1: But anyway, we're this is not an encanto po.
Speaker 2: No, but Disney now has to like it's like on
Speaker 2: bat like scrambling to make.
Speaker 3: Luisa toys be Yeah, they's good.
Speaker 2: Well, because there was a big moment in the WWE,
Speaker 2: I would say, like four or five years ago where
Speaker 2: it used to be like the Diva Belt and it
Speaker 2: was a butterfly and they would take hot muscle model
Speaker 2: girls and like make them into wrestlers, but they were
Speaker 2: never that good, and it just like that's when people
Speaker 2: would go to the bathroom or jerk off type vibes.
Speaker 2: And then like five years ago, they switched it. It's
Speaker 2: an actual, real belt, it's not a sparkly butterfly. And
Speaker 2: they got like Samoan girls, and they got like real
Speaker 2: fucking wrestlers who had been wrestling for a year, and
Speaker 2: it became like it was just cool, it's awesome where yeah,
Speaker 2: like I get that, it's just not everything has to
Speaker 2: be what men want to fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's other things, especially in Encanto.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I let the women wrestle. It's just let Yeah,
Speaker 2: she's strong, give her muscles. Yeah, And I love that
Speaker 2: little I don't know if it's this movie, but I
Speaker 2: love there's like a photo of circulating on the internet
Speaker 2: and it's a little black child with an afro. In
Speaker 2: the cartoon is a black boy with an Afro and
Speaker 2: he's like so cute, looks just like the cartoon, and.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, that's so cute.
Speaker 3: Back to people children, I mean, just like whatever.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think also what we learned from this,
Speaker 1: I don't know what we learned from Olivia constantly forgiving
Speaker 1: Cassidy's bad behavior.
Speaker 3: I mean that Dick is good, you let some things fly.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, But I mean it's like, you know, the
Speaker 1: episode's a lot about inherited trauma. That's honestly, that's what
Speaker 1: Encanto's about. And Kanto's about inherited family trauma and having
Speaker 1: to break down the walls of like, you know, all
Speaker 1: this trauma that you've built up and build something new.
Speaker 1: And that's that's I don't know, we keep talking about
Speaker 1: fucking Canto, but it really is like relevant here, like
Speaker 1: Cassidy has all this trauma and Reggie has this everyone
Speaker 1: has this trauma that they're hiding, and you know, you
Speaker 1: just I don't know, I think it's like to a degree,
Speaker 1: like it's got to come out, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta watch and Canto and the
Speaker 2: Salt Lake City Reunion.
Speaker 3: I mean, oh yeah, because my.
Speaker 2: Fun show lately has been fucking Jersey Housewives, which is
Speaker 2: no picnic. It's like the jail years now. I'm watching
Speaker 2: families cry and get separated, but they deserved at their criminals.
Speaker 2: I do not feel bad for Teresa. Yeah, but it
Speaker 2: is like still families fighting and like struggling with It's yeah,
Speaker 2: and then I want to do Euphoria so I could
Speaker 2: be with the culture same. I'm about to start You
Speaker 2: for It, which isn't a good time either. I don't
Speaker 2: know what happy show to watch.
Speaker 3: I know it's like all the stuff. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: I think that's what's been keeping me from starting You
Speaker 1: for It is just everyone's like it's good, but it's
Speaker 1: dark as fun and it's like, okay, we have a
Speaker 1: lot of darkness going on. But yeah, I'm gonna watch it.
Speaker 1: I'm I can't wait to start.
Speaker 3: Fashion Star studded.
Speaker 2: Yesterday something was trending that it was like the behind
Speaker 2: the scenes of the makeup and what it meant for
Speaker 2: the care and I was like, oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 2: watch this show.
Speaker 1: I also kind of like that it's giving like like
Speaker 1: it's giving older actors a big jump to like Martha
Speaker 1: Kelly's in it, who I love from stand up also
Speaker 1: Alana you.
Speaker 3: Bo Alana, I've worked with her? Oh you have?
Speaker 2: I didn an an unpicked up pilot with her.
Speaker 3: Oh I was I mean legally Blonde obviously, Yes, she
Speaker 3: was the funniest girl in Legally Blonde. She's one of
Speaker 3: the friends. She's the brunette friend, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I always when I watch that, I go
Speaker 1: what happened to these two women? Like those two women
Speaker 1: are part of the funniest part of a very classic movie.
Speaker 1: And I just know I didn't know what happens to them?
Speaker 1: But she actually has had like a very prolific career.
Speaker 1: Has she been an SVU? We should try to find out.
Speaker 3: No, I like know, I like that.
Speaker 1: Euphoria is like also springboarding, some adults back into like
Speaker 1: not adults, like the twenty two year olds are adults too,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean older like people that
Speaker 1: are older.
Speaker 2: And No, it seems like a cool show with amazing
Speaker 2: acting and stories and everyone is shocked. Anything that brings
Speaker 2: people together, it's exciting. Yeah, I was on the Yellow
Speaker 2: Jackets train. Not so much as Succession but or Game
Speaker 2: of Thrones, but anything that brings people together week by
Speaker 2: week discussion.
Speaker 3: It's fun because like we've talked about it. There's so
Speaker 3: much fractured.
Speaker 1: Television is a fractured landscape, and it's kind of nice
Speaker 1: when there's one thing that we can all be like
Speaker 1: did you see that, and like we can all talk
Speaker 1: about it a little.
Speaker 2: Bit, you know, oh, I know, we're not talking about
Speaker 2: that episode. Whatever, guys. So I after the super Bowl
Speaker 2: downloaded all these super Bowl playlists because I loved the
Speaker 2: halftime show and I had never listened to Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a female vocal pop girl, and I
Speaker 2: loved Kendrick Lamar in the mix. I was like, this
Speaker 2: is so good. And then I'm at the comedy store
Speaker 2: and I'm standing outside and Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe
Speaker 2: came on and I was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: just heard this song last week.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: And like four people turned around and went, what do
Speaker 2: you mean last week? And I went, well, I just
Speaker 2: heard it on the playlist and they're like, this was
Speaker 2: the biggest song in the country three years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 2: They're like everyone, They're like, you've never heard Bitch Don't Go.
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, but I relate and I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Like they couldn't believe it. But then I mentioned Casey Musgraves.
Speaker 2: They had no idea who that was, and I go,
Speaker 2: she's at Staples Center, Like, yeah, we truly don't know any.
Speaker 3: Like I just couldn't believe they didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Or when people don't know Olivia Rodrigo, I'm like, should
Speaker 2: the number one?
Speaker 1: Mind? No, it's just like like music is the same,
Speaker 1: it's fracture. It's like just splintered, you know. Like but yeah, Kendrick,
Speaker 1: if you were I was working out at a CrossFit
Speaker 1: gym three four years ago, you're gonna know Kendrick like
Speaker 1: they were playing him NonStop.
Speaker 2: But also with this, don't break the rules, don't yell
Speaker 2: in court, don't cosmis trials, don't go to pedophiles homes,
Speaker 2: don't get covered in blood.
Speaker 1: I mean, although we did say we love vigilante justice,
Speaker 1: don't really do a vigilante justice.
Speaker 3: I mean probably like don't don't really do it, and
Speaker 3: don't talk to cops without a lawyer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, baby, Brett Gay's character spilling all the beans, and
Speaker 2: you made such good connections that they had actually nothing
Speaker 2: to hold him.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like a fisher from a guy, like you know,
Speaker 1: a washer from a guy's shoe. Who was this another
Speaker 1: suspect not holding up in court? Okay, let's get into
Speaker 1: this week's what would Sister Peg Do? This is our
Speaker 1: weekly segment where we give you guys a resource, a link,
Speaker 1: a book, an organization to check out maybe donate to.
Speaker 1: This week, I really wanted to point out this instagram
Speaker 1: that I've been following for a while, actually that because
Speaker 1: I think with regards to like the crime that Lisa
Speaker 1: talked about, and also the fact that in this episode
Speaker 1: the mom was very like, how did I not see
Speaker 1: this happening?
Speaker 3: Like to both of my children? How did I not
Speaker 3: see this?
Speaker 1: And this woman named Rosalia Rivera has these consent parenting
Speaker 1: workshops and she as an instagram called Consent Parenting, and
Speaker 1: I've been following it for a while. It's just very
Speaker 1: interesting where she points out some of the ways that
Speaker 1: kids can get groomed, and she points out some of
Speaker 1: the ways that rape culture is in like the cartoons
Speaker 1: that we let kids watch and stuff, and how we
Speaker 1: just want to counteract some of that when we see
Speaker 1: it and just be vigilant that we know that we
Speaker 1: recognize strange behaviors in our kids or people that might
Speaker 1: be giving us red flags in our kids' lives. So
Speaker 1: she is a consent educator and abuse prevention expert, and
Speaker 1: again she does these workshops. But I'm a huge fan
Speaker 1: of the Instagram and I just follow it and I'm
Speaker 1: always kind of like at first, I was like, is
Speaker 1: this crazy that I follow this? Like is this am
Speaker 1: I being like like a reactionary or like like paranoid.
Speaker 1: And it's like no, like all these parents of one
Speaker 1: hundred kids from this psychodoctor in Delaware, everyone needs to
Speaker 1: see the signs of this. So her her Private Part
Speaker 1: Safety workshop is designed for parents with kids between ages
Speaker 1: two to eight, so you can teach your kids like
Speaker 1: Private Part Safety and include lessons on how to correctly
Speaker 1: teach your kid about safe and unsafe touch, the right
Speaker 1: language to use. So I don't know, check out the
Speaker 1: Instagram and if it sort of resonates with you, maybe
Speaker 1: you can. You can also learn more at www. Dot
Speaker 1: Consentparenting dot com. That is a really good resource. Thank
Speaker 1: you for finding that. That's so specific and perfect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: When I was doing what with sister Pegs, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh wait, this thing I follow is like perfect for
Speaker 1: this because it's like, you know, like we could do
Speaker 1: another child abuse like we you know, we have a
Speaker 1: lot of child abuse like resources once it's happened. But
Speaker 1: this is like a preemptive like let's learn all the
Speaker 1: resources ahead of time before something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like, also, just believe your kid, like
Speaker 2: that's something, yes, of course, but that's not what this is.
Speaker 3: And this is really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I've talked about this before the episode of
Speaker 2: this is actually happening about this incest survivor how her
Speaker 2: anxiety and like her trauma came out in perfectionism and
Speaker 2: being the best student ever and so no one thought
Speaker 2: that was bad because everyone loves a good student and so,
Speaker 2: but that was signs of like OCD and all these
Speaker 2: things coming up. So there are so many signs that
Speaker 2: parents should be aware of. And this is definitely not
Speaker 2: the same. And I don't know if I drunk sent
Speaker 2: this to you last night or not, but someone sent
Speaker 2: me the cheat sheets. It's an Instagram account that is
Speaker 2: cheat codes for Google sheets and excel Ooh right, so
Speaker 2: I don't know to text you in the middle of
Speaker 2: the night, going wait, how do I search?
Speaker 3: How do I move the tab?
Speaker 2: It's called cheat sheets excel in sheets like a friend
Speaker 2: posted it thinking she was a loser, and I go,
Speaker 2: I need this, I need this.
Speaker 3: The internet wins again, So lots of resources there on
Speaker 3: the Internet.
Speaker 2: Hopefully all of your children are safe, and next week
Speaker 2: we will be doing a classic episode perfect season four,
Speaker 2: episode twenty four. We cannot wait. Hulu Peacock Podcast. All
Speaker 2: the hits. Go to your library, get those VPN sticks charged,
Speaker 2: and yeah, we'll see you next week.
Speaker 3: We're so lucky. We love you guys. Thanks myye. That's
Speaker 3: Messed Up is an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at thots Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank and.
Speaker 3: At Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Analise Nelson and
Speaker 2: to our mixing engineer Ryo boun Anti Henry Kaperski for
Speaker 2: our theme song.
Speaker 1: And to Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our executive producers Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everyone at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3: Dun, dun,