WEBVTT - Sleepy Wall Street Session, True Classic CEO Ben Yahalom 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:06.760 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.680 Welcome to Bloomberg Market. It's a special holiday edition. It 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:13.640 is a holiday shortened week. I'm Vonne Quinn along with 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.800 Shanale Masak, and we are just seconds away from those 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.759 closing bells that you could hear ring at the exchanges. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.880 And it's another up date at least for the Dow, 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:27.080 but we just flipped negative shenale for the other major indusices, 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:28.800 including then I was like one hundred. 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.600 Absolutely fascinating day because you did see that drop off 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.600 in the ten year yield, but you did still see 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.639 the S and P five hundred, let lower, the Dow 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.120 Jones just in the green, the Nasdaq lower, where you 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.800 saw little lover was outside of those major indexes. You 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.000 saw the Russell two thousand with that lower yield story 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.560 up almost one percent, about nine tenths of one percent body. 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.840 So there was green in the screen somewhere in the market, 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:55.400 just not at those major indexes. 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.480 There were people nibbling today and maybe at the codes 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.160 they were just taking profits because they're didn't have a 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.120 long weekend before the beginning of a new year. But 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.200 joining us now to breakdown today's market moves. Is Bloomberg's 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:10.120 Alexandra Semenova and Natalia Kenietievich. So Alex talk to us 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:11.720 a little bit about some of the gainers that we saw, 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.679 because we did see some very very very happy companies today. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:15.440 Yeah, Vanni. 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:17.800 Even with the Nasdaq one hundred down today, there is 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.479 a tech a technology sector that has been a big 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:24.760 winner in this session. Quantum computing stocks broadly up across 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:26.720 the board, a sector that has become an area of 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.240 intense interest on Wall Street and certainly one to watch 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.759 in twenty twenty five. DWave Quantum up more than twenty percent, 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.120 Rerigetti Computing up more than thirty percent, in Quantum Computing 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:38.760 up more than ten percent. All these stocks have seen 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.119 very pronounced moves here to date, up one thousand percent, 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.200 two thousand percent on some of these names, and again 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.440 though it's not on fundamentals here, but on the transformative 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.920 potential of the technology. Take QBTS, for example, a DWave Quantum. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.160 This is a company with a two point two billion 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.160 dollar market cap and just nine million dollars in revenue. 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.559 Another name, speaking of tech that I'm looking at today 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.480 is it's up about three tenths of a percent. This 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.120 is after its price target was raised to a street 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.639 high of three hundred and twenty five dollars by Wedbush 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.200 Security Securities by none other, of course, than Dan Ives. 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.480 He says that the company is heading into a multi 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.000 year AI driven upgrade cycle. This upgrade cycle, he says, 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.040 is being underestimated by Wall Street. He has an outperform 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.240 rating on the stock, of course, and even though the 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.000 move today was pretty modest on this upgrade, it is 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.160 up more than thirty percent this year. And finally I'm 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.440 taking a look also at game Stop. Shares rose as 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.920 much as ten percent today, up about six percent into 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.280 the close. And this is of course, after a post 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.480 on x from Keith Gill, also known as Roaring Kitty. 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.040 You guys remember him from the game stock saga back 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.720 in twenty twenty one. This post was an image of 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.440 a gift on Twitter without any text, so no real 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.359 reason that the stock is moving higher, and trading volume 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.720 today was almost five times the twenty day average for 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.359 this time of day, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.280 The stock also rose for a fifth straight session for 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.680 its longest winning streak since November first, and game Stop 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.200 shares are up about eighty six percent this year. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.720 Guys appreciate it so much, Natalia. Let's take a look 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.760 at the decliners on the day. We bring in Italian 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:16.320 Nazevich for that, right. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.560 So, I'm looking at energy producers guys, specifically companies that 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.640 are related to natural gas industry. We see stocks like Targa, 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.600 it's one of the worst performance in the s and 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.560 P five hundred AQT is also lower, and the main 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.240 reason for that is natural gas futures. We see that 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.360 natural gas posted almost a seven percent decline on Thursday, 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:41.040 and that was driven by forecasts. Now, forecasters expect a 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.520 little bit warmer than expected weather in the last couple 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.480 days of twenty twenty four. As a result, it always 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:52.440 built concerns about some oversupply, and futures of natural gas 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.720 move lower. As a result. We see that natural gas 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.800 companies are moving lower as well. And another stock that 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.200 I'm keeping an eye on is of course, micro Strategy. 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.680 We watch closely what's been happening with bitcoin. It's not 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.440 moving lower. Micro Strategy shares are down by four percent, 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.920 almost five percent. Investors are also reacting to companies news 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:21.840 to issue additional shares to fund further Bitcoin purchases. Just 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.560 a reminder, micro Strategy is seeking a permission to increase 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.800 a number of authorized shares of Class A common stock 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.840 and preferred stock. That's according to December twenty twenty three filing. 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:39.800 And of course Bitcoin will be still volatile tomorrow as 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:44.200 well because we see a huge option expiration tomorrow. As 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.280 a result, we will keep an eye on all cryptorelated stocks. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.440 Yes, there's going to be a lot of vilesilcy between 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.000 now and the end of the year. It looks like Natalia. Also, 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.320 the VIX index itself not shoining too much fear. Today 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.359 the VIX was down to under fifteen. Of course, we 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.840 know that that can move pretty quickly. So in general, 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:02.880 we had a sort of a mixed day, about two 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.680 hundred stocks lower and nearly three hundred stocks higher, but 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.880 not hugely higher. But that's still pretty good breath. 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.200 Right, still pretty good breath. Yes, and again we are 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:17.160 still looking at final trading days of this year if 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:21.720 we will see more potential upside move driven by the 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.760 so called Santa Claus rally. And now, as you mentioned, 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.440 volatility is also on traders radar. What I heard from 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.400 sources I spoke with next year will be a little 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.400 bit different. This year was volatile. We saw huge moves 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.800 in the Vigsy index. But they say that next year 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.440 volatility will be a little bit more predictable because they 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.760 it will be driven by Donald Trump's It will be 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.080 driven by Donald Trump's policies, and as soon as traders 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.880 know what exactly he will implement, it will cause of 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.800 course volatility. But you can play volatility in a little 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.760 bit different way and potentially again more because this year, 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:04.520 for example, when we looked at those role control funds, 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.359 those funds typically follow the market direction, they were lagging 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.440 because it was so hard to predict volatility moves in 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.760 twenty twenty four. So lots of expectations that next year 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:16.960 will be a little bit different. 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:19.599 Ladies, thank you so much for joining us today. Of course, 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.599 hard at work into the end of the year. We're 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.640 all just kind of wiping off our calendars and playbooks 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.640 to prepare for twenty twenty five and the end of 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:29.279 the trade. 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:30.559 This year has certainly been strong. 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.800 We're going to now be joined by Aaron Gibbs, she's 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.280 chief investment officer at main Street Asset Management, to talk 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.640 about that playbook. So you think about the gains that 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.400 we've seen this year how much the S and P 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.960 has been driven by those megacap tech names, and a 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.800 lot of people are scouring the market for other opportunities. 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.680 How do you see those other opportunities playing out, especially 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.479 when you see how sensitive some of the small cap 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.720 names have been to the interest rate movements today, the 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.920 Russell two thousand was your relative gainer exactly. 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.160 I think now that we have a better sense of 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.640 where the FED is heading, we're seeing obviously a more 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:16.120 stable inflationary environment of slow and steady, and we're also 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.760 looking at reduction of fiscal stimulus. 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:21.880 Where we're really going to see. 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:26.400 Productivity are obviously potentially from AI gains, But where we 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:31.400 might see company profitability would more likely be within some 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.880 of your small caps, as some of the larger caps 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:38.280 are starting to face some headwinds, And from an investor standpoint, 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.440 not only MA I'm looking at where companies might grow, 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:45.240 where that profitability might come from, but also just where 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.640 the value is because as we have had such big 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:53.560 run ups from these high expectations of increased productivity within 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.960 these megacaps, there really is a lot of money on 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:01.760 the table from some of the small our companies. Some 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.160 of the lesser known companies even within the s and 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.080 P five hundred, where if they even if they just 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.680 meet let's say, fifteen percent growth, they don't have to 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.040 be twenty twenty five percent growth, but they're undervalued by 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:18.480 twenty five percent compared to historical gains. Those are the 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.000 companies that could do really well if we finally see 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.720 some expansion of market breath. 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.120 You really started to see Marcus largely shake off many 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:29.680 of the risks we've seen out there. 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:30.560 That was interest rate. 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.320 Risk, it was geopolitical risk. Yet we're sitting here at 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:38.360 an SMP five hundred at your end, well above six thousand. Still, 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.760 what are the risks you're looking at next year that 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.280 could particularly throw investors off this more bullish course. 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.600 So two of two big issues I see. 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.840 One is just a slowing global economy. We're seeing some 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:57.160 major economies really facing some headwinds, so China, South Korea, Europe, 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.719 and so those larger cap company is particularly multinational where 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:03.640 they do have to worry about revenue risks, they do 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:08.679 have to worry about dollar the dollar currencies. Those of 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.559 the companies that might face more headwinds than some of 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.119 the more domestic focused smaller companies. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:19.280 Another issue is just the reduction of fiscal stimulus. 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.600 Is this really looks like from an economic standpoint, we're 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.080 starting to hit that peak of the cycle and that 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.200 the economy might slow down. So you need companies that 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.719 are able to operate efficiently, that aren't so focused on 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:36.840 the fiscal stimulus and can really drive from other organic 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.719 revenue sources and more perhaps more domestically. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.680 So those are the two big. 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.880 Headwind headwinds for those or lack of slowing fiscal stimulus 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:53.520 and then slowing global external trade that might really potentially 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.680 debrail some of the larger CAB companies next year. 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.600 Yeah, Aaron, you say earnings may start to disappoint, does 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.120 that up? And already in Q one of next year? 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.480 After all, Jack Morgan is out January fifteenth, it's only 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.680 a couple of weeks away. 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.520 Yes, Well, we did have a rather a low beat 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.160 rate for Q three already, and we know that analysts 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:15.520 are obviously lowering some. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.679 Of their expectations for Q four. Right now, Earning's expectations 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.920 for next year are pretty darn optimistic. 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.040 We're looking at fourteen percent growth for the S and 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.800 P five hundred and twenty percent growth for the SMP 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:29.880 small cap. 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.800 For earnings profit, those are some high numbers. 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:38.400 Whenever we're looking at mid teens to even twenties, they 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:39.280 have often. 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:43.040 Been revised down. So we'll see. Obviously we have a 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:43.440 lot to. 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.080 Be able to deal with next year, even though at 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:51.040 least the FED part of that story seems to be 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.360 more stable. But certainly I think people should be prepared 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.680 for disappointment and when the stock market really is price 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.600 per perfection, as we're seeing in many of the sectors 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.040 right now, particularly within. 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:06.360 The large caps, not within the small caps, investors. 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.199 Should be very weary if we do see some weakening 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.120 or some deterioration within the economy and within some of 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:13.679 these industries. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.600 Where do you anticipate any weakening in the economy? Erin, 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:19.680 we haven't seen any really at all this year. 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.480 No, we've been very fortunate, and I, like I said, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.920 a lot of it has been through physical stimulus through 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.440 dollar trade. I think if some of the tariffs come 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.120 through that Trunk has promised, that could be a huge 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:39.960 negative impact, particularly on materials, industrials, consumers, just a host 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.800 of industries. And so that's something that I think investor 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.400 should be very wary of and just remain up to 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.800 date and be ready to switch if that changes, because 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.040 that type of policy could have a significant impact on 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.400 company's profitability for next year. 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.400 What do you think your favorite trades are to set 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.240 up for the new dynamic under a new president. 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.960 Yes, so one I would like to say again small apps, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.839 they're a little more insulated from tariffs. They might be 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:19.560 again more domestically focused, less exposure to dollar and burrency trades. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:21.760 So that's one of my favorites. 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.360 And again there's such a low value that just have 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.160 less downside risk. On the other side, I do like 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.640 some of the stable industrial sort of the growth at 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:37.800 a reasonable price means like Honeywell, Caterpillar, nice stable earnings quality. 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.280 They can weather the storm, that can weather a. 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:45.839 Few quarters of potential volatility and still beat expectations. 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:48.719 All right, erin thank you so much for joining us 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.920 on this holiday week. That is Aaron Gibbs, chief investment 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.880 officer at Main Street as a management joining us there. 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:03.000 All right, that's move on now to another sticking point 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.040 in Washington. One of President Biden's final acts in office 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.840 will be deciding the fate of Nippon Steele's proposed acquisition 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.119 of US Steel. A government panel. 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:13.559 Deadlocked on the deal earlier this week. 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.760 Well, this morning Nippon Steele delayed the closing date of 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.800 the deal into twenty twenty five, joining us from Washington, DC. 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.440 Now is John Harney, John, will Biden get this done 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.319 and decided in the next you know, twenty thirty days? 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.559 Does it have to be done or might it actually 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:29.880 bleed into the next administration. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:38.240 Well, he has fifteen days from Monday to say whether 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:40.560 or not the deal should go forward. He is not 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.240 you know, he has not said flatly he's going to 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.959 kill it, but he has made plenty of indications that 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:53.679 that will be his decision. The announcement today that the 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:58.680 closing has been put off simply faces reality. They Nippon 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:05.319 Steele has put off the closing before this as this 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:12.840 huge twelve plus billion acquisition has become further ensnared in 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:18.160 American politics in the election. It remains unlikely at this 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:24.480 point that Donald Trump will have a say on killing 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.840 the deal or not. But both companies say that if 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.040 President Biden says no, they will go to court and 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.760 then who knows where it will end. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.600 To that end what happens from here, because this, of 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.680 course is a very politically sensitive deal has a lot 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.680 to do in terms of how steel workers in America 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.360 feel about foreign ownership, and a lot to do with 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.880 how the Committee on Foreign Investment CIPIUS operates in relation 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.280 to how they seek to block deals moving forward. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.720 What does it say about areas. 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.600 That are sensitive to the American to me as it 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.200 comes to foreign for foreign investment. 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.800 Well, all those realms, if you will, are important. Certainly, SITHIUS, 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:13.400 by the way, deadlocked over whether or not the acquisition 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.520 should go forward, leaving it, you know, leaving it to 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.120 the White House, and that was a step that had 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.320 to be taken. But also there's a there's an international 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:28.640 there's also international relations. Japan is not an adversary like 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:34.440 say China, but a very close ally Prime minister issue 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:40.120 of Japan today urged President Biden to approve the deal. Now, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.120 whether or not he'll do that or not, you know, that's. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:44.480 We'll see what happens. 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.840 But but you're right in that this became a very 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:53.320 political issue, as as as many other parts of American 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.400 American business and culture have you know, many steel workers 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.680 have this you know, you know, and other Americans have 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:08.000 a strong you know, there's a strong history behind US 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:13.360 Steel's an iconic American company, you know, but Upon Steel 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.600 and US Steel say, there are many good reasons for 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.640 this acquisition to go forward, apart from politics, apart from 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.200 for lack of a better word, in nostalgia. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:25.600 John, we have to leave it there. We thank you 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.600 so much for joining us today. That is John Harney 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:36.440 of Bloomberg New Jennifer Gregel, she's associated their associate professor 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.880 of Communications in Syracuse University. For more on Musk, Trump 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:43.800 and the future of social media under the new administration. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.520 So we're looking at what the president elect might do 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.840 moving forward. We're trying to read the tea leaves. 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.320 How do you think social media is going to play 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:58.360 a role in the upcoming in the upcoming world, I mean, 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.960 how do you think they are going to really use 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.280 Musk platforms relative to some of the other more established 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:05.200 ones you've seen out there. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:10.560 Yeah, I love, Well, maybe a little context because I know, 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:12.760 over the last four years, you know, I've kind of 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.919 been sitting back a little bit more and watching this 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.000 all play out, and I know Musk is the person 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.040 of the moment, and we're throwing around these like sophisticated 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:25.240 terms like retail investors, you know, but like it's really 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.440 about the public. Sometimes the market's trying to make sense 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.520 of what's going on. And for me, the one piece 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.800 that I've seen lacking in the media over the last 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.080 four years and especially this past year, is any critique 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.680 of really the Biden administration and how they've handled not 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.119 just like their leverage over social media, but even this 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.400 upcoming potential TikTok. 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.080 Band that's looming and now it's going to. 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.120 The Supreme Court, and I know you're just talking about 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.639 meme stocks and also bitcoin, like you know, like it 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.920 or not. President Trump is coming to power next year, 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.240 and he has an incredible amount of leverage ability to 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:07.159 cut deals, not just with TikTok, but any of those competitors. So, 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.880 you know, again circling back to Facebook, you know, it's 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.040 no surprise that you know, kind of late in the 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.400 last election you saw like Mark Zuckerberg, you know, kind 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.920 of maybe you know, kind of posing up a little 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.600 bit more. And I think it's because we were missing 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.840 that context. I know, for me, it was really difficult 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.160 to cut through at times and to provide that critique. 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.919 But I'm not sure the markets or the public have 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.880 really heard enough critique going into this. It's it's been 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:39.040 really focused on Musk and obviously he has the president's ear, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.280 you know again, I know there's jokes about him being 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:46.119 the unelected president. Of course he's incredibly rich and he 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.399 has Twitter, but he has again he has made that 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.359 work for him. So for me, I think we just 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.600 need a little bit more history and looking into you know, 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.840 those who were in power. They I think they they 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.840 had a lot of confidence going into this that Biden 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.040 would continue and then they pass laws like that too. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.760 So I think it's going to be actually unsettling to 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.960 some of those those larger social media companies. I'm not sure, 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.760 you know again their future is so sure and that 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.640 we should only be talking about TikTok for example. 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.399 Yeah, Jennifer, I mean, what would Donald Trump like to do? 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.199 Because on the one hand, he needs leverage with the 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.600 country like China, especially if he's going to be imposing 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.479 extra tariffs and so on, and this seems sort of 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:30.439 like a you know, easy pickings if you. 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:35.200 Like, it's exactly, and he's got easy pickings with bitcoin, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:36.240 you know, do you make a. 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:38.000 Reserve or don't you? 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:38.400 Right? 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.480 So he man, he has so many levers going into 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:47.320 this next term, right, So I think when we think 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.679 about you know, it's taking some notes looking at the 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:55.479 last section, this is not a moment of clarity, like 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:59.639 we do not have confidence, we don't have certainty, and 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.719 I think I think the markets are reacting to that 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:03.520 more than. 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:05.760 Just this fed you know, announcement. 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.240 Obviously we saw a major market moment there, but I 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.840 see uncertainty coming into the end of the year, not 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.440 just because it's the end of the year, but because 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:15.360 we really. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.479 Don't know how President Trump is going to play his cards. 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:20.480 We just know that he has a lot in his hand. 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.159 And Jennifer, all these tech executives that are visiting mar 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.160 Alago and you know, digging deep for their million dollars 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.240 or whatever it's costing them. Well, in these US executives, 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.080 I mean, in particular, what will that buy them? 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.960 Yeah, Well, that was what was interesting about the TikTok 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:40.440 case was that they went to extraordinary lengths to legislate 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:44.719 the carve out TikTok. Otherwise it would have looked just 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.439 like every other platform, you know, Facebook would have been 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.240 in the same situation. 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:51.160 And that was kind of what I think. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:55.360 Gave TikTok comfort for a while. I think going into 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:02.000 this legislative path was incredibly risky. It is a huge 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:07.600 threat to freedom of information, freedom of expression. Unfortunately, you 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.080 know again that even the expiration day, it was. 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.000 Right in front of the next term. 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:17.840 It was I believe it just an incredibly dangerous piece 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.480 of legislation to target. 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.000 One platform like that. It doesn't matter. 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.760 If it was an external kind of foreign actor or 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:30.200 whatever the reasoning was. It's it was very, very targeted. 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.639 And the timing, you know, would have given the Biden 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.879 administration some leverage not only with TikTok, but with maybe 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.120 the sitting platforms going into. 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.440 The last election. They could have maybe you know again. 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.879 Struck as some type of sweetheart deal with Facebook. So 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:47.920 it's it's really, you know, again, we have to look 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:50.000 at the timing of all that that was passed in 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:54.000 April last year, March. You know, we knew in March 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.200 Trump was taking the helm at the RNC. 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:58.560 Again, I just I. 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.840 Don't like it. I don't like it. 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.240 You know, you look at how TikTok has been treated 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:07.320 by lawmakers, and you've seen both parties really voice their concerns. 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:09.200 At the end of the day, do you think that 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.159 whether or not there is a full on band that 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.560 is pursued in the early days of Trump administration, or 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:20.840 a wholesale sale of the platform, does that pressure really 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:21.399 go away? 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:23.879