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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Hammer Territory Podcast. My name is Sean Coleman. Hope,

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Speaker 1: wherever you are and wherever you are listening, you are

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Speaker 1: having an excellent week so far, and it is good

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Speaker 1: to be back with you. And I don't know whether

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Speaker 1: it's a good thing or a bad thing, but you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna go with it being a good thing.

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Speaker 1: It's my first time being on video as a member

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Speaker 1: of the Hammer Territory Podcast, and once again it's always

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Speaker 1: a pleasure to be with my podcast partner, Stephen Tolbert Steven.

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Speaker 1: It's good to see you for the first time talking braves, Sean.

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Speaker 2: I like that Acuna jersey you got hanging behind you.

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Speaker 2: Also Batman and Captain America. That's quite a setup. I

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Speaker 2: gotta step my.

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Speaker 3: Game up, clearly. But yeah, it's good to be on

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Speaker 3: with you. Man. It's been a little bit since you

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Speaker 3: and I have done a show.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, you guys were both out last week, and so

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Speaker 2: it's good to have the four guys back in action.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, we got some we got an interesting topic tonight.

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Speaker 2: Tonight's going to be a fun show.

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Speaker 1: It absolutely will be. And of course, you know the

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Speaker 1: Hammer Territory part of the Foul Territory Family of podcast.

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Speaker 1: Brad Rowland, Scott Coleman, Steven Tobert have been doing an

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Speaker 1: excellent job looking at several of the big discussion points

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Speaker 1: so far this offseason, and Stephen, let's start here the

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Speaker 1: biggest point of all that the Braves have come into.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're discussing this while Game four of the

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Speaker 1: World Series is going on. Yankees are performing well, finally

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Speaker 1: in a World Series game. So we'll see if it

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Speaker 1: ends tonight. But the point is is that the off

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Speaker 1: season is going to start, likely at some point this week.

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Speaker 1: The biggest domino to fall so far for the Braves

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Speaker 1: is the hiring of Tim Hyers, you know, from the Rangers,

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Speaker 1: had plenty of success with some big teams postseason success

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Speaker 1: as well. He had a lot of interesting comment that

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Speaker 1: he made that really seem like he's going to bring

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Speaker 1: some positive energy towards making this Braves offense once again

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Speaker 1: very dynamic. But to me, Steven, when we look at

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Speaker 1: the biggest thing that Tim Hyers can do, it is

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Speaker 1: going to be helping members of our core get back

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Speaker 1: to the levels that they were before last year. And

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Speaker 1: the biggest position of all that could use that benefit

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Speaker 1: I feel was the catching position, and one person in particular,

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Speaker 1: Sean Murphy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, Murphy was such a massive part

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three. You know, he had an all

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Speaker 2: Star caliber year. He provided depth to the lineup, which

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Speaker 2: I think was arguab with the Braves' biggest strength in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, not just the overall talent, but how

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Speaker 2: deep their lineup was. They were really dangerous basically one

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Speaker 2: through nine. And you know, when you have two catchers

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Speaker 2: like Murphy and Darnault that played the way they did

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Speaker 2: in twenty three, it's just incredibly valuable. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: Darnault missed some time in twenty three, and Murphy arguably

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Speaker 2: had the best stretch of the season when when Darnault

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Speaker 2: was out.

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Speaker 3: I mean, having that.

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Speaker 2: Much depth is is you know, I would argue that

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Speaker 2: Braves have the best catching situation in baseball, even after

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Speaker 2: a down twenty four. I think having two guys of

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Speaker 2: this caliber and then a guy in triple A that

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about here in a minute, the

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Speaker 2: Braves have tremendous talent at that position, at a position

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Speaker 2: that's tough to acquire. Talent Quite honestly, if you look

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Speaker 2: around the league. This has kind of been Brad's thing

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Speaker 2: for years, is that catching around the league is not

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Speaker 2: is not the deepest position you know in baseball. It's

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Speaker 2: it's a it can be a barren position at times

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Speaker 2: for teams. And so the Braves have three guys who

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Speaker 2: are more than capable, which is way better than most

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Speaker 2: teams can say. And so yeah, I mean, this new

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Speaker 2: hitting coach is going to come in and obviously a

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Speaker 2: lot of the attention is going to be on Murphy.

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Speaker 2: And you know, he had injury stuff last year. He

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Speaker 2: had underperformance relative to batterball data. That matters as well,

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Speaker 2: that he might just see positive regression for just on

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Speaker 2: that alone. But yeah, I mean, all eyes are gonna

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Speaker 2: be on Murphy in twenty twenty five because there's no

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Speaker 2: way to there's no way to you know, spin it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he had a bad year. He had a

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Speaker 2: bad year in twenty four. He had the injury on

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Speaker 2: opening day. There was a muscle injury. It was an

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Speaker 2: oblique injury. You know, he missed two months. He came back,

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Speaker 2: he never caught up, He never looked right. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if he was dealing with the injury all year.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if he was just the rust of

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Speaker 2: being out for as long as he was. I will

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Speaker 2: say it is hard for a guy like him to

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Speaker 2: get back because he's a part time player effectively, I mean,

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Speaker 2: he plays sixty percent of the time at the most.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it's fifty to fifty.

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Speaker 2: And when you miss two months and you're trying to

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Speaker 2: catch up and you're only playing fifty percent of the time,

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Speaker 2: you know, that makes it even harder. So you know,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, all eyes are gonna be on Murphy in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five because he had a bad twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: He's locked up for a long time and the Braves

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Speaker 2: need him.

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Speaker 1: To be good, and we know that he can be good,

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Speaker 1: right like we're talking, if we go back to the

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Speaker 1: first half of two twenty twenty three, you know, actually,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the off season of two. After

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty two season. We saw William Contreras have

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Speaker 1: a breakout year in twenty twenty two. True Travis Darna

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Speaker 1: going into the two thousand and before the off season,

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Speaker 1: before twenty twenty three, you could have made an argument

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Speaker 1: that the Braves catching situation was the best in baseball

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Speaker 1: with William Conters and Travis Starna, and yet the Braves

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Speaker 1: still went out and made it a point to get

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Speaker 1: Sean Murphy. One of the big reasons why was because

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Speaker 1: of the changes in stolen base rules that were going

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Speaker 1: to happen. The Braves wanted his defense. They locked him up,

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Speaker 1: and for the first few months of twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: nine to fifty plus ops MVP candidate, it looked like

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Speaker 1: another absolute steal of a move for Alex and Thoppless.

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Speaker 1: But then from that twenty twenty three second half through

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Speaker 1: last year, Sean Murphy saw his OPS drop from I

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Speaker 1: believe around nine to fifty down nearly three hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty points into the five hundreds. Last year it was

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Speaker 1: at a six forty four OPS. And when you look

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Speaker 1: at last year, the other thing that stands out is

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Speaker 1: is that yet there was a bit of bad luck,

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Speaker 1: but launch, angle, barrel rate, hard hit rate all significantly dropped.

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Speaker 1: So there were clear reasons why Sean Murphy's performance was

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Speaker 1: significantly lower than it had been in the past. The

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Speaker 1: injury to me plays a part in it. I definitely

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Speaker 1: think that that injury probably had some things to do

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Speaker 1: with his swing mechanics, but The other thing that stands

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Speaker 1: out to me, Steven is that we talked about it

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. In twenty twenty four, the playing

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Speaker 1: time frequency of Sean Murphy. It seemed as if it

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Speaker 1: may have been a hard adjustment going from him playing

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Speaker 1: seventy five percent of games in Oakland to basically be

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Speaker 1: in a time share with the Braves. And Brian Snicker

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Speaker 1: said something at the end of the year exit interviews

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Speaker 1: that really stood out to me. He said that Murphy

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Speaker 1: was going to catch three out of every four games

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Speaker 1: going into the season, and then that got derailed the

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Speaker 1: first game of the season. So it's really going to

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Speaker 1: be interesting to me to see not only in terms

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Speaker 1: of the change of his mechanics, but are the Braves

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Speaker 1: going to get back to committing to him three out

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Speaker 1: of every four games moving forward? And is that going

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Speaker 1: to allow for him to be more comfortable to have

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Speaker 1: better offense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't love how they've used Murphy

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Speaker 2: overall in terms of, you know, being more of a

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Speaker 2: fifty to fifty player. You know, last year I understood

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Speaker 2: it because the entire offense was so bad and Darnault

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Speaker 2: was one of the only guys hitting that from Snit's

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Speaker 2: point of view, like he just needed guys in the

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Speaker 2: lineup that were hitting, and like he didn't have the

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Speaker 2: luxury of laying out a catching situation exactly the way

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Speaker 2: he wanted to. The offense did not allow him to

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Speaker 2: do that. He had to play Darnault probably more than

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Speaker 2: he wanted to. But overall, Murphy should play seventy five

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Speaker 2: percent of the time. Like that's like you have a

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Speaker 2: you know, long term significant amount of money tied up

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Speaker 2: into Murphy. He's the better player, he's younger, he's got

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Speaker 2: more upside.

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Speaker 3: Like, Murphy should play more.

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Speaker 2: And I do think that one of the reasons Murphy

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Speaker 2: was never able to catch up last year after missing

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Speaker 2: the first two months is because he only played fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of the time. I mean, imagine, you know, if

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Speaker 2: Ronald Unter Junior or Matt Olsen or Austin Riley, if

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Speaker 2: those guys miss a month, when they come back, they're

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Speaker 2: playing every day no matter what.

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Speaker 3: It's not that well, it's not like that. It's not

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Speaker 3: like that for Murph.

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Speaker 2: Murphy's got a you know, he gets a day, he

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Speaker 2: plays a game, and then he takes a game off.

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Speaker 3: He plays a game, he takes a game.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when you're when you're already behind, that's brutal.

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Speaker 2: That's a brutal way to go through a season. And

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Speaker 2: I just don't think he ever caught up. And so

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Speaker 2: I want to see a healthy offseason, a healthy spring training,

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Speaker 2: a new hitting coach, maybe some adjustments, and then I

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Speaker 2: want to see him place like seventy five percent of

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Speaker 2: the time, because this guy has always been good.

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Speaker 3: And this is what.

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Speaker 2: Pisses me off about some Braves fans is that it's

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Speaker 2: been he had one bad season. Basically, I understand he

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Speaker 2: didn't have a great second half in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: but if you go look like month by month, he

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Speaker 2: had a good July and a good August. He just

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Speaker 2: had a really bad September, and he did he had

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Speaker 2: a bad September, but he basically had a bad September

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, and he had a a bad

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, which is totaled about eighty games. Like

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Speaker 2: if you look at all of that, that's about eighty

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Speaker 2: games total, and in about eighty eighty five games total,

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Speaker 2: Braves fans are ready just to be done with a

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Speaker 2: guy who was an All Star last year. And it

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Speaker 2: was awesome basically his entire time in Oakley. And that

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Speaker 2: that that that logic annoys the hell out of me.

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Speaker 2: Like he had an oblique injury last year on opening

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Speaker 2: Day and he never looked the same. Like it's very

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Speaker 2: very likely that twenty twenty four was just an outlier,

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Speaker 2: you know, driven by a tough injury and a guy

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Speaker 2: who never was able to get caught back up.

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Speaker 3: Like the fact that people.

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Speaker 2: Are just ready to be done with him after one

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Speaker 2: bad year, which again totals like not even half a

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Speaker 2: season worth of games, maybe right at half a season

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Speaker 2: worth of games.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy to me.

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Speaker 2: And and by the way, you know, even this year,

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Speaker 2: like Sean Murphy made nine dollars last year, Like even

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Speaker 2: with his down year production wise, he was still basically

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Speaker 2: worth this contract. Like people talk about him like he

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Speaker 2: makes thirty thirty five million dollars a year, Like he

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Speaker 2: makes nine million, and yeah, next year it bumps up

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Speaker 2: to fifteen million, which is a bigger chunk of money.

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Speaker 2: But like he's so good defensively, like he's gonna be

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Speaker 2: worth his contract no matter what. Like that's the it's

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Speaker 2: just it's not a lot of money.

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Speaker 3: Like I know, people think fifteen million dollars a lot

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Speaker 3: of money. It's really not.

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Speaker 2: It's not a lot of money. He's gonna be worth

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Speaker 2: his contract. And people are like, yeah, I'm I'm trade him,

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Speaker 2: you know, get rid of him.

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Speaker 3: But he had a bad year. Trade him.

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Speaker 2: First of all, why the hell would you trade Sean

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Speaker 2: Murphy at his lowest value possible? Like just the logic

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Speaker 2: of that doesn't mean even if you don't like Sean

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Speaker 2: Murphy just from an asset management, like, that's just terrible

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Speaker 2: asset management.

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Speaker 3: You don't sell at the lowest possible price.

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Speaker 2: So that annoyed. Like that whole conference you know Scott

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Speaker 2: was talking about on Twitter today, he was getting killed

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Speaker 2: in his mentions. I saw it. I jumped in it.

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Speaker 2: Just it's some of the fans are just not it's

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Speaker 2: just nonsense. It's absolute nonsense. Like let's get the guy

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Speaker 2: a full healthy season in and see what happens. If

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Speaker 2: he's terrible again in twenty twenty five, then this conversation

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Speaker 2: is valid. But at this point it's extremely premature and

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Speaker 2: quite silly.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, and to back up your point, I

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Speaker 1: think there are three reasons why it should clearly be

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Speaker 1: understood that Sean Murphy coming off his twenty twenty four season. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there are valid reasons that support why he was not

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Speaker 1: at the same level that he was in the past.

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Speaker 1: But to your point, it's one year, it's been a

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Speaker 1: hundred game stretch or maybe one hundred and fifteen hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty game stretch since July of twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about his struggles, and even within that

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Speaker 1: he's still had some good stretches. But three reasons to

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Speaker 1: me as to why it is crucial that when we

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Speaker 1: talk about the Braves as a whole getting back to

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Speaker 1: where we want them to be a clear favorite for

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Speaker 1: the World Series, Sean Murphy is going to be a

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Speaker 1: big reason for that. Number One, the reason why that

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Speaker 1: you know it's so important for the Braves to invest

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Speaker 1: in him is because he still remains one of the

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Speaker 1: best two way catchers in the game. That is the

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Speaker 1: big reason why Alex and THOPPLSS went out to get

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Speaker 1: him when he did, despite already having a really good

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Speaker 1: catching situation. He's great on defense, he's great combating stolen

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Speaker 1: bases when he's healthy, and the offense's potential is certainly there.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that number two. The other reason why

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Speaker 1: I feel that it's very important for him to work

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Speaker 1: with Tim Hires and getting back is because if Sean

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Speaker 1: Murphy is playing to his potential on offense, he is

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Speaker 1: the type of hitting profile that helps the Braves out

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Speaker 1: in those multiple areas. Tim Hiers talked about being able

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Speaker 1: to score runs in multiple ways. Sean Murphy gets on base,

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Speaker 1: Sean Murphy hits for power, and Sean Murphy is a

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Speaker 1: good situational hitter. You need those type of hitters to

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Speaker 1: help you be able to score runs in multiple ways.

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Speaker 1: And the third big reason why to me you hold

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Speaker 1: on to Sean Murphy without any hesitation whatsoever. We talked

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Speaker 1: about it a few weeks ago in the podcast where

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that our pitching staff was absolutely incredible

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Speaker 1: into Thoule in twenty four, there are legitimate questions for

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Speaker 1: each part of the starting rotation going into twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: A healthy, motivated in sync with the pitching staff. Sean

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Speaker 1: Murphy helps out that situation. So I get that it's

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Speaker 1: been struggles in twenty twenty four, but there is so

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Speaker 1: much positivity both in terms of defense, offense and handling

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Speaker 1: the pitching staff that makes it crucial for the Braves

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Speaker 1: to work with Sean Murphy and get him going. And

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Speaker 1: if you can get Sean Murphy back to be in

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Speaker 1: his normal self, there's no option out there. That's where

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Speaker 1: trading four that's going to be better. And I have

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Speaker 1: faith and confidence the Braves are going to be able

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Speaker 1: to do that, especially with his work with Tim Hyers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and fans focus on offense a lot, but offense

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Speaker 2: is not the most important part of catching. Like the

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Speaker 2: Braves had the second best the era in baseball, and

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Speaker 2: Sean Murphy calls a lot of the game, Like Sean

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Speaker 2: Murphy doesn't get any credit for that from fans, but

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Speaker 2: like Chris Sale talked about most times how he just

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Speaker 2: threw what whatever Murphy put down, Like Murphy calls a

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Speaker 2: lot of the games. And again the Brave said the

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Speaker 2: second best era in baseball, Like Sean Murphy gets some

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Speaker 2: credit for that, but not among the fans. Like everybody

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Speaker 2: thinks about offense. Like with catchers, people think about offense,

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Speaker 2: they think about are you throwing out base runners and

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Speaker 2: are you giving up pass balls? Like and that's kind

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Speaker 2: of the beginning and end of it, And that's not

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Speaker 2: actually where catcher's value begins and ends. I mean there's framing,

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Speaker 2: there's pitch calling, there's managing in a staff like, there's

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Speaker 2: a ton that goes into being a catcher that Sean

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Speaker 2: Murphy is fantastic at the fans don't give him any

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Speaker 2: credit for. And so if you know, if you don't

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Speaker 2: think he was a part of having the second best

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Speaker 2: era in baseball, then you're crazy and you're not seeing

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Speaker 2: the whole value of what a catcher does. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I listen, I've always been a Murphy guy.

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Speaker 3: I am going to defend him.

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Speaker 2: But but you know, like I said, if he's bad

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Speaker 2: again in twenty five, if he's healthy and bad, then

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Speaker 2: this is a valid conversation. I mean, we're not gonna

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Speaker 2: like just you know, turn blinders onto Sean Murphy. If

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Speaker 2: he's bad again and he's healthy, then this is fair.

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Speaker 2: This is a fair conversation about should, you know, should

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Speaker 2: they try something else? But one injured season where he

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Speaker 2: played like seventy games and never got caught back up,

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Speaker 2: I'm just not going to overact to I'm just not Now,

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Speaker 2: there are some other interesting aspects of the Brave's catching

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Speaker 2: situation that we're about to talk about that are valid

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Speaker 2: to have a discussion about.

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Speaker 3: But the trade Murphy people drive me crazy.

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Speaker 2: And my mentions and Scott's mentions got torn up with

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Speaker 2: it today and I jumped in and so my mentions

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Speaker 2: got it too. But it just doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 2: I don't even if you don't like Murphy, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: make sense. So that stuff drives me crazy. But again,

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Speaker 2: there are aspects of the catching situation next year that

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Speaker 2: are pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: One key aspect of that, of course, is the person

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Speaker 1: that you know. We talk about a time share that

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Speaker 1: Sean Murphy shares that catching position with, and that's Travis

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Speaker 1: d'arnot now Travis dor now, So we me and you

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Speaker 1: talked about it multiple times throughout the season. If there

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Speaker 1: was one positive storyline to the season, it was the

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Speaker 1: Braves veterans just absolutely coming up in critical moments to

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Speaker 1: keep their head above water for much of the season.

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Speaker 1: Marcelo Zuna at the play, Chris Sail on the mound,

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Speaker 1: Ryce Soliglesias anchoring the bullpen in big hits and big

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Speaker 1: moments from Travis Darno. Travis Darnaut had a very good season.

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Speaker 1: He had a bounce back season in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: compared to his twenty twenty three season and at age

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Speaker 1: thirty five, it was a pretty durned good season, especially

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Speaker 1: when he started the year in a full time, you know,

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Speaker 1: catching situation due to Murphy's injury. But if you go

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Speaker 1: a bit deeper, if you go a bit deeper on

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Speaker 1: Darnau's season he had, he had a better than expected season.

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Speaker 1: You'll take what he did all day long, but it

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Speaker 1: was really really helped by having a nine to fifty

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Speaker 1: ops to start the year and having a nearly eleven

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Speaker 1: hundred ops in July. But in May and June as

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Speaker 1: well as August in September, he did not have an

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Speaker 1: ops above six fifty in any of those months. So

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Speaker 1: what really helped Darnault was a couple of two or

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Speaker 1: three week to two week stretches that really helped him out.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be negative on Darnault. Again, he

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Speaker 1: did better than expected, But my point is is that

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Speaker 1: expecting for him to potentially be a seven fifty to

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Speaker 1: eight hundred ops hitter moving forward that may not necessarily

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Speaker 1: be all that consistent with how catchers age. So the

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Speaker 1: point that I'm getting at is that with Darnaul, I

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Speaker 1: think he still is going to be a fine backup catcher.

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Speaker 1: I think that he still is going to be a

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Speaker 1: fine option pinch hitting and getting the occasional start. But

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Speaker 1: I also think that once again it becomes even more

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Speaker 1: critical for Murphy to bounce back because you could potentially

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Speaker 1: see Darnaul's start to decline again. Not trying to be negative,

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Speaker 1: he had a great twenty twenty four compared to what

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Speaker 1: expectations were, but he also, to me, is someone who

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Speaker 1: you could start to see a bit of regression with,

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Speaker 1: or at the very least, you're not going to get

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Speaker 1: just consistent production. You'll get a few hot streaks, but

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Speaker 1: he's he's not going to be an eight hundred oh

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Speaker 1: ps hitter every month that he plays. So Darnault still

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Speaker 1: is an excellent number two catching option, but I do

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Speaker 1: think with his age, it puts even more emphasis on

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Speaker 1: Murphy getting back to normal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean father time right, father time undefeated. You know,

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Speaker 2: especially at catcher like catcher, catching is such a brutal

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Speaker 2: position physically, it just wears you down, probably faster than

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Speaker 2: any other position. We've seen the last couple of years

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Speaker 2: that Travis has really fallen off a cliff in the

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Speaker 2: second half of the season, especially in September and October.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think some of that is age. Like,

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Speaker 2: like you said, he's thirty five, he's been doing this

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Speaker 2: a long time. He's been you know, beat to death

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Speaker 2: back there for years. He's had concussion problems, like he

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Speaker 2: should be like and that's another reason I think Murphy

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Speaker 2: should catch seventy five percent of the time. Like Darnaul's

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Speaker 2: a backup catcher at this point, Like that's what he

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Speaker 2: should be, that's what he is.

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Speaker 3: And if he's a starting.

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Speaker 2: Catcher, and that's what he should be, and that's what

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Speaker 2: he is. And you know, obviously, when there's injuries and

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Speaker 2: and Darnault has to play more than you know, there's

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Speaker 2: not a lot you can do about that. But when

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Speaker 2: they're both healthy, I just I don't love the fifty

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Speaker 2: to fifty time share that we've seen a bunch in

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Speaker 2: the last two years. And you know, I think you

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Speaker 2: got to give Murph some run. You got to give

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Speaker 2: him three out of four or five out of seven

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is to try to get him. You know,

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Speaker 2: he's got a big, violent swing. It's probably very easy

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Speaker 2: to get that swing off time, you know, the timing

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Speaker 2: off on that swing and you gotta have reps and

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Speaker 2: so yeah, Murr, I mean, I listen, Travis is the

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Speaker 2: most you know, I think Brad said this before, Travis

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Speaker 2: is one of the most overqualified backup catchers in baseball.

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Speaker 2: But he's thirty five years old, he's dealt with a

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Speaker 2: lot of concussions, he's he's kind of fallen off the

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Speaker 2: you know, his production has really fallen off the last

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Speaker 2: couple of years.

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Speaker 3: In the second half of the season, specifically.

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Speaker 2: September and October, like, there are signs that this is

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Speaker 2: kind of coming down to the end. And in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: it's just my opinion, but in my opinion, and I

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Speaker 2: did it was very interesting to me, like it was

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Speaker 2: to you that Snicker said that the original plan for

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Speaker 2: Murphy was seventy five percent of the time before he

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Speaker 2: got hurt.

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Speaker 3: I hope that's what.

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Speaker 2: They do in twenty twenty five, because I think that's

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Speaker 2: the best way to use them both. I think Murphy's better,

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Speaker 2: he's younger, he's got more stamina, and you can preserve

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Speaker 2: Darnault potentially for more of the second half in October

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Speaker 2: if you don't play him so much in April, May

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Speaker 2: and June.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I agree with you completely.

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Speaker 2: I think Darnault is a really good player, but he's

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Speaker 2: on the wrong side of thirty and now he's on

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Speaker 2: the wrong side of thirty five. He's a catcher. These

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Speaker 2: guys break down very quickly. It's an incredibly demanding position.

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00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 3: He just needs to be a backup. He needs to

437
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,400
Speaker 3: be a full time backup.

438
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 2: You know, twenty percent of the time he starts day

439
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 2: game after a night game, you know, Sunday getaway days

440
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 2: or whatever. But other than that, it needs to be Murphy.

441
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 2: And obviously we have another name to talk about here tonight,

442
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 2: but you know, if you're just talking about those two guys,

443
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 2: that's how I would break it down going into next year.

444
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 1: And three things that I want to make sure that

445
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 1: we get across about Darnault as well that are very

446
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 1: important backing up. I completely back up the fact that

447
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: he should be a backup catcher. But Darnaut's clubhouse presence,

448
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,479
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm doing my pinky Darnaul's clubhouse presence.

449
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 3: It's a hell of aoid account.

450
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Darnault's clubhouse presence, Darnault's ability to deliver in big moments.

451
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: He's had big hit after big hit after big hit

452
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 1: as a Brave and again I wrote a piece about

453
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 1: it a few years ago for Battery Power over at

454
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: eSPI Nation. Me and you have talked about it before.

455
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 1: Darnauh legitimately is one of the best offensive catchers in

456
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: postseason history. Like if you look at his numbers, so

457
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: he still could deliver in the postseason. That is a

458
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 1: hell of a source of value. When he adds to

459
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: the clubhouse, adds in big moments, and adds to the postseason.

460
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 1: It has your backup catcher. Ardo clearly has value. It

461
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: just needs to be as a backup catcher. Speaking of

462
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: backup catchers, another name that we've talked about over the

463
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: past few years is of course Chadwick Trump, who in

464
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: my opinion, has done quite well in terms of being

465
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,439
Speaker 1: that third catcher. But that's not the name that we

466
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: want to really get into, because this is a name

467
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: that excites me to talk about and get your perspective.

468
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: Steven the name that I want to talk about who likely,

469
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 1: in my opinion, if he is with the Braves next year,

470
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: he clearly becomes that third catcher and it probably is

471
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: the position prospect for the Braves in recent years. That

472
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: we have seen kind of take off the most, and that,

473
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: of course, is Drake Baldwin. If you were to look

474
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 1: at a Braves position player who had a breakout season

475
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, it's Drake Baldwin. He's also been

476
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: able to show that he can handle the defensive responsibilities

477
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: that comes with being a catcher. He's showing out in

478
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: the Arizona Fall League. He's getting an opportunity in the

479
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: Premiere twelve. I'm not that knowledgeable on that setup, but

480
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 1: more of a Team USA type concept. But the point

481
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: that I'm getting at is Drake Baldwin continues to see

482
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: his prospect profile rise in value among the best young

483
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: catching names in the game, but Stephen. It creates an

484
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: interesting dynamic to this offseason for the Braves because I

485
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: felt that if Alexanthopless was going to make a significant

486
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: move at the deadline, Drake Baldwin was going to make

487
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: it was going to be the prize of the package.

488
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: It made the most sense to trade him at the

489
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: deadline if they were going to get another offensive player

490
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 1: or starting pitcher. I still feel that makes sense in

491
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: the off season in the right situation, but we also

492
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 1: know Alexanthopolis puts so much value in having not only

493
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: catching depth, but quality catching depth, and he's got that

494
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: in these three catchers that we mentioned. But I go

495
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: back again to that that offseason after twenty twenty two,

496
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: he traded William Contreras. He traded Shang Shae Langeleers when

497
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: they were hot catching prospects. So he's traded hot catching

498
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: prospects in the past. Where do you think going into

499
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: next season the best value with Drake Baldwin lies being

500
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: that third catcher and another good hitting prospect that the

501
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: Brads could utilize if they run into injuries again. Or

502
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: is the best opportunity for him now to be as

503
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: a part of a trade package to go get a

504
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: significant return.

505
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is fascinating. Scott brought this up today.

506
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: That's kind of what kicked the whole thing off, is

507
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 2: what to do about Drake Baldwin, Because you know, depending

508
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: on where you have Nacho Alvarez there's you know, or

509
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: a J. Smith, Schalver or Hirsch and Waldrip you know,

510
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: depending on where you ranked them, a lot of people

511
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: have Drake Baldwin is the best prospect in the system

512
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 2: and he destroyed Triple A last year he had a

513
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 2: one thirty five WRC plus and triple A. Even more

514
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 2: important to me is that he had almost as many

515
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 2: walks as strikeouts, which is a huge indicator for having

516
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: success at the major league level. And I think he

517
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: had like a fifteen percent walk grade or something like

518
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: that in triple A last year, which is absurdly good.

519
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: Something the Braves could desperately need.

520
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 3: Maybe more critical.

521
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: Than all that is he's left handed, which the Braves

522
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: desperately need. You know, catcher is typically a spot where

523
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: pretty much everybody's right handed, and you know, having a

524
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: guy that's left handed who throws right handed is very valuable.

525
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 2: And it's a way to balance out your lineup from

526
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: a position where you don't typically get lineup balance unless

527
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,479
Speaker 2: you get a switch hitter like Adli Rushman or somebody

528
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 2: like that. And so that's all of that is extremely

529
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: valuable for the Braves, Like it's not just a you know,

530
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: in a normal situation where you have a long term

531
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: starter locked up for many years and a really serviceable

532
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: backup already on the team and your top prospect is

533
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 2: that is in that position, you would say the best

534
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: thing to do is trade the guy because you don't

535
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: have anywhere for him to play. And there is an

536
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: argument that the best thing the Braves can do is

537
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: to trade Drick Baldwin, but it's impossible to know that

538
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: without knowing what you're getting back, because that's going to

539
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 2: be a huge part of that equation. But in this situation,

540
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 2: Drake Baldwin has very specific things about his profile that

541
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: the Braves desperately need. They need more walks, they need

542
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: guys who don't strike out a ton and have really

543
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: good plate discipline. They need more left handed hitting. You know,

544
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: depending on where you are with Travis Darnault and how

545
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 2: much longer he's going to do this, it's very possible

546
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: they just need another catcher. And that's you know, Darnault

547
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: is the one that complicates this one. Right, Like, if

548
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: Darnault retired tomorrow, this situation gets very simple, Right, Drake

549
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: Baldwin's just your backup catcher, and you probably find way

550
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 2: to utilize them even more than that to get him

551
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: in the lineup. And it's kind of a perfect scenario

552
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: because you can slowly introduce him to major league pitching

553
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: without over exposing him, but you get his bat on

554
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: the team. The problem is Travis Darnault by all accounts,

555
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: is not retiring tomorrow, and Travis Darnaut might play another

556
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: two or three years.

557
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: We have no idea.

558
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: Maybe the team has an idea, but we don't know.

559
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: And that's an interesting situation because Murphy's not going anywhere.

560
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 2: You know, Alex talked about this before, but when guys

561
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 2: signed these team friendly extensions, they don't include no trade clauses,

562
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: but they effectively include no trade clauses because one of

563
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: the things is you don't trade players who signed team

564
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 2: friendly extensions for you. It's a big no no in baseball.

565
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: It's a really good way to piss off the union,

566
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: a way to piss off players in the future. When

567
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: you sign guys to extensions, you don't trade them and

568
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 2: so and Alex has said that in the past, we don't.

569
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: We're not going to trade these guys who've signed these extensions.

570
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: So Murphy's not going anywhere. And if Travis doesn't go

571
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: anywhere for two or three years, then what do you

572
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: do with Drake Baldwin. I mean, he's already dominated Triple A.

573
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: You could probably live with him in Triple A one

574
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: more year as your third guy. In case you have

575
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 2: injuries again in twenty twenty four or Trump sorry, twenty

576
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: twenty five. But there's also an argument that his trade

577
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: value is never going to be higher. I mean, the

578
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: year he had at Triple A, you know, he was

579
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: just in the Arizona Fall League, had a really good

580
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: showing there. He's gonna have a ton of value around

581
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: the league. And like you said, the Braves are not

582
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: shy about trading catching prospects. They've already traded two big ones.

583
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: Some people will say they shouldn't have traded either guy

584
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 2: because both Langeliers and Catres both have done pretty well

585
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: where they've gone. But you know Alex, if Alex feels

586
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: like he's got his guy, then it is very interesting.

587
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 2: I'm interoued to hear what you think because I can

588
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: really beersuaded persuaded both ways. But I would need to

589
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: know what is I would need to know what the

590
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: trade packages are for before I could really give an answer.

591
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: But you know, if the Braves, you know, I don't

592
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: know who's out there. If the Braves found like a

593
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: shortstop or somebody or a long term answer at starting pitching,

594
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, I.

595
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 3: Could be talked into it.

596
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: This is why It's so fascinating to me because I

597
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: could be talked into a lot here and it all

598
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,239
Speaker 2: makes sense. And the thing I don't want to have

599
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: happen is that Darnault plays for three more years and

600
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: Baldwin just to wait at triple A. I think that's

601
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: my least favorite option. So but it's a fascin it's

602
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: a it's a fascinating situation.

603
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: So here's my thought prospect, the thoughts on the situation.

604
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: I think that you've got to expand the outlook for

605
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: Baldwin beyond twenty twenty five. Right, So what I'm getting

606
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: at is is that if you look at it as

607
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: of right now, where could Baldwin play, Where could he

608
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: contribute to the brakes? Or right now it would be

609
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: at the catcher position, and then it would be at

610
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: the DH position. Well, we've got Murphy locked up long

611
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: term as our main catcher, Darnaut signed for the year

612
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: as our backup. We've got a Zooma for two more

613
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: or for another year at DH may extend him, you know,

614
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: after this year, and then we've got Solaire for two

615
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: more years. That's as of right now, though that's entering

616
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five roll the clock in the future twelve months,

617
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: Let's go to next offseason. Does Darnaut fall off a

618
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: cliff and do we re sign him or is he gone?

619
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: After this season? Ozuna becomes a free agent. Does he

620
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: fall off significantly then getting in in his mid thirties,

621
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: does he potentially become too expensive? Do we retain him,

622
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: do we still have Solaire? Or have we traded him

623
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: this offseason? So when I say move forward twelve months

624
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: and look at Baldwin's potential importance to the organization. Right now,

625
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: bald gyms seem may not make it clear where he

626
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: would contribute in Atlanta, but when you look at next offseason,

627
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,719
Speaker 1: you've got multiple ways in which he could contribute in Atlanta.

628
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: So that's the reason why I feel there's a very

629
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: solid case in terms of keeping him. And I also

630
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: think that that kind of really puts in the focus.

631
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: The only situations that you would use Drake Baldwin in

632
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,479
Speaker 1: when it comes to being a trade is if you

633
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: could go get an outfielder that you could play in

634
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: left field in twenty twenty five, or a shortstop that

635
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: you could get for twenty twenty five, and that shortstop

636
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: or outfielder is someone you can control long term that

637
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: you feel has a higher ceiling long term than Baldwin.

638
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: I use him in that situation to get that type

639
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: of offensive player, because then if you go get that outfielder,

640
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: Akunya can become your main DH potentially and you could

641
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: switch him in Baldwin out moving forward at the DH

642
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: position and you can have another reliable outfit or obviously

643
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: have a reliable shortstop. If you don't find that trade package, though,

644
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: hold on to Baldwin and see what you've got next

645
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: off season. That would be where I would focus. When

646
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: you take it beyond next year, the importance of Baldwin

647
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: to the Braves gets higher, And that's why I think

648
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: it makes sense to only move him in the right situation,

649
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, you're already in

650
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: a position to where he can help you out in

651
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: multiple ways, especially after twenty twenty five.

652
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

653
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: No, that's the argument for keeping him, one hundred percent.

654
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: That's the argument for keeping him is that after next year,

655
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: Travis may retire and so Ozuna may be gone. So

656
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: there might be gone before the twenty twenty five season

657
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 2: even starts, you know, I mean, hell, maybe you can

658
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,239
Speaker 2: teach him to play outfield. I mean, I can make

659
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 2: an argument that Drake Baldwin's a better outfitterer than jorgees Hilaire.

660
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: And they played solaira and outfield for forty games, So like,

661
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: who's to say Baldwin couldn't do that at twenty three

662
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: years old. There's yeah, I mean there's a strong, strong

663
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: argument to keep him.

664
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: And they tried it with Contreras. They did that exactly.

665
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: They were in the position three years ago with Contreras,

666
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what they tried to put it in

667
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: the outfit.

668
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: And it would not surprise me if they did it again.

669
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: If they said, you know what, we need a left

670
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: handed outfielder, something I've been you know, clamoring for for

671
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: about three years now. It would not stun me at all.

672
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: If we got to spring training, like we're gonna give

673
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: Drake Baldwin, you know, a left field glove or right

674
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: field glove and see what happens.

675
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: And I would love that.

676
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: I mean, more positional versatility is never gonna hurt you.

677
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 2: But and so yeah, that's the argument for keeping him.

678
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: And I if somebody says this is the best course

679
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: of action, I'm not gonna argue like that's a that's

680
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: a perfectly logical argument to me. But there's also the

681
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: argument like, if a core guy comes up available this

682
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: offseason and they say, we're not making this move without

683
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: Drake Baldwin. You know, again, it's tough to know without

684
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: knowing exactly the name, but it would have to be somebody,

685
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: like you said, who's a core piece that you have

686
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: that you could potentially lock up, you know, like they

687
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: did with Langeliers and matt Olsen effectively. It would have

688
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: to be something like a similar situation to that at

689
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: a positional need. You know, I don't know, people are

690
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: gonna ask for names. I don't know, I don't have names.

691
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: It would need to be probably an outfit or a

692
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: shortstop would be the only thing I could say to that.

693
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: And I don't know who that would be. But there

694
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: is a there is a very real scenario where the

695
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: best thing to do is trade him. But that name

696
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: would have to be a really strong You'd have to

697
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: be a core piece. It have to be somebody you

698
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: could have for a long time. I would love it

699
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: to be somebody who's left handed. The fact that Drake

700
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 2: Baldwin is left hand that a left handed catcher is

701
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: almost more important to me than anything else. Well, no,

702
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: the walk rate and the play discipline are probably more

703
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: important me than anything else. But after that, it's the

704
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: fact that he's left handed. The Braves desperately need more

705
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: left handed hitting. They get exposed by right handed pitching

706
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: every single playoffs they play in because they just don't

707
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: have enough left handed hitting. Said this a million times.

708
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 2: I want them to go get more left handed hitting,

709
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: and Drake Baldwin is that. So I would love for

710
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: him to keep him and maybe give him an outfield glove.

711
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 2: You know, you're probably gonna have an injury to Darnaul

712
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: or Murphy or both at some point next year. I

713
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: have no problem keeping that depth and holding on to

714
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,479
Speaker 2: him and then making a more definitive decision twelve months

715
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 2: from now. That's that's perfectly fine with me. But yeah,

716
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: there is a scenario where trading him also makes the

717
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: most sense, and that's just going to be very player

718
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: in package specific.

719
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and we'll have plenty of you know, time this

720
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: offseason to discuss, you know, those potential names that I

721
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: was just looking at the Fangrafts leader boards for both

722
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: shortstop and outfield, and there were a few names out

723
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: there that you could consider, but I'm not even gonna

724
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: worry about mentioning them just because they're probably not going

725
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: to be available. And I don't know Drake Baldwin is

726
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: the type of prospect that all of a sudden makes

727
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: them available if you put him on the table. But

728
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: it's clear that Baldwin is someone that for the Brave.

729
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: The Braves are kind of in a position of leverage.

730
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: I think when it comes to Baldwin, he, to me,

731
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: is going to be someone that teams are going to

732
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: be interested in because we know that there's not a

733
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: lot of catching prospects out there who can show that

734
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: they can handle the position with significant offensive upside and

735
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 1: possibly the versatility to play elsewhere. But also again, as

736
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: we go in time, the Braves are certainly going to

737
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: need Baldwin, you know, more than they do right now.

738
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: But I want to kind of in with this point, Stephen,

739
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: is that the Braves have had such a legacy during

740
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: since the early nineties when this you know what twenty

741
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: three playoff appearance is over the past three decades, and

742
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: like thirty two, thirty one, thirty two years. If you

743
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: go back and look over that history. The Braves have

744
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: legitimately had this have been the second most productive team

745
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: at the catcher position, I think, after the Dodgers. I mean,

746
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: you go from Hobby Lopez to to to you know,

747
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: Johnny Estrada for a year, then you had Brian McCann.

748
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: Obviously you had some pretty good years with Kurt Suzuki

749
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: and Tyler Flowers, and now obviously you've got you know,

750
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: to Darna and the Murphy such just such a good legacy.

751
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: The thing that I'm getting at is is that, yes,

752
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 1: it was a down year for Braves catching, we were

753
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: still twelveth in WRC plus between our two catchers in

754
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: what was a down year. And I would argue that

755
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: there were a few, if any positions right now with

756
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: as much bounce back potential or as much future projection

757
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: as the Braves are. There. If our catching situation beyond

758
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: next year is Murphy and Baldwin, I put it up

759
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: there with anybody's catching position over the next three to

760
00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: five years. The catching position remains a source of strength

761
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: for this Braves team. We know Alex and Thopless knows

762
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: how to manage from a source of strength. So for

763
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: anybody that's lost space in the Braves catchers position. Moving forward,

764
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: I say to you, whoever you are, have faith it's

765
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: going to bounce back, and the Brave's catching position is

766
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: once again going to be one of the best in

767
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five and beyond.

768
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

769
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: And then the Braves put up like a all their

770
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: catchers together put up like a three war season last year,

771
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: and I think total made about seventeen or eighteen million

772
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: dollars total between everybody that played, So even in a

773
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 2: down year, they still paid for themselves in terms of

774
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 2: value versus production, you know, relative to costs. So and again,

775
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 2: pretty much everything went wrong last year for the catcher.

776
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, Darnault had to play way more

777
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: than the expected, Murphy was never the same after the injury.

778
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: So it's almost certainly going to go better in twenty

779
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: twenty five. So yeah, I mean again, I don't I

780
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: get very annoyed with the people that are just like

781
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: one bad season and just burn it down, trade everybody

782
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 2: start over. Like some of that's like some of that

783
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: stuff just drives me crazy. It just it drives me

784
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: like no perspective, you know, not looking at anything outside

785
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four.

786
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, come on, guys, it's it's it's

787
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 3: it's wild to me.

788
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: But the Baldwin situation is fascinating because there's just so

789
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: many ways it could go, and so many ways that

790
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: I could argue it should go, and some of those

791
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: are opposite of each other. You could really make a

792
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: strong case either way. So it's gonna be a fascinating situation.

793
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: But I do agree with you.

794
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: I think it'll be a strength of the team next year.

795
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: You know, having Baldwin available as a third guy if

796
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: somebody gets hurt is something they didn't have this year.

797
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: You know, Trump is a good player, but he's a

798
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: good kind of backup player. Baldwin could come in and

799
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: legitimately be like an impact player for you if somebody

800
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: gets hurt. And that's what they didn't have this year.

801
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: So you know, you can make a strong case assuming

802
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: they don't trade Baldwin, which is not a guarantee by

803
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: any stretch, but assuming they don't trade him, and they

804
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 2: go into next year with all three that that three,

805
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: those three catchers are I can't think of a better

806
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 2: catching situation in baseball to then have those three guys

807
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: available for you all season. Long, there's probably a better

808
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 2: one that I'm not thinking of, but I not, off

809
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 2: the top of my head can I think of one

810
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: with more talent, So yeah, it should be a strength

811
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty five, there are some questions that are

812
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 2: gonna have to be answered about Baudwin and what they

813
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: do with them.

814
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 3: I would give them an outfield.

815
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 2: Glove and say let's go figure that part out.

816
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 3: But we'll see what they do.

817
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's gonna be It's a it's a fascinating situation.

818
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I'll I'll end with have

819
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: on mind is this is that if you want to

820
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: if you want to discuss, well, what about the question

821
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: of well, what faith should we have in Baldwin transitioning

822
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: or transitioning successfully, translating successfully to the major league leabeal?

823
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: Why I think that you can make an argument, Stephen.

824
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: You know, we're coming up a year in which Shy Lane,

825
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: the leers for the Athletics, had twenty nine home runs.

826
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: We're coming into a year where William Contreras had a

827
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: five and a half f war season, arguably a top

828
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: three catcher in the game. If there are two position

829
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: prospects that have translated the best during the Alexanthopolis era.

830
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: I'm talking about players that he either signed or drafted

831
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 1: since he became GM. I believe that he signed Contraras.

832
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: I may be wrong on that, but he certainly developed

833
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: him in his time. There may not be better examples than

834
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: Langeliers and Contreras, who are both catchers. Alex and Thopolis

835
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: knows how to find catching talent and develop it. So

836
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: I would be confident as well that Baldwin is going

837
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: to translate. And if the Brays want to take advantage

838
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: of that by going to get into the long term

839
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: core piece this offseason or featuring Baldman moving forward, I

840
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: think either way they have to be pretty confident it's

841
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: going to work out. Steven, any final thoughts from you

842
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: as we wrap up this edition of the Hammer Territory Podcast.

843
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 2: Nope, you know, World Series is almost over. Either the

844
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: Dodgers are going to run away with this thing and

845
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 2: the Yankees are going to make it interesting. But either way,

846
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: it's going to be over pretty soon, which means off

847
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: season starts and we really get rolling here on some

848
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: real news. So make sure you're subscribed, make sure you're

849
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 2: you know, following Twitter, following all the audio only accounts.

850
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: We're obviously now on YouTube as well. I think we're

851
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: gonna be on YouTube pretty pretty consistently at this point.

852
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: You know, we were kind of Sean and I were

853
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: kind of the last two holdovers to move to video,

854
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: but we've kind of figured out some of the kinks,

855
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: so I think we'll be on video pretty consistently. Check

856
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 2: out the YouTube channel has grown quite a bit in

857
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: the last you know, a month or so, so, but yeah,

858
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 2: we appreciate all the support as always.

859
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: And hey, I'm gonna say it because because I want to.

860
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: I think that these playoffs have worked out magnificently. The

861
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: Phillies eliminated, the Mets eliminated. We talked about it a

862
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: week or so ago. How it Showhy versus Aaron Judge.

863
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: I know both of them have kind of been quiet

864
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 1: in the World Series.

865
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: Has Aaron Judge been in the World Series?

866
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Speaker 1: I had a good question. It's a good question, But

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Speaker 1: Steven who has been in the World Series? Freddy Freakin' Freeman,

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Speaker 1: Freddie Freeman. I'm excited. Brave's country may not want the

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Speaker 1: Dodgers to win the World Series, but I will sit

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Speaker 1: here and say all day long, love Matt Olson. Absolutely

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Speaker 1: love Matt Olsen, but I can cheer for both of them.

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Speaker 1: And Freddie we've been having the series that he's having.

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Speaker 1: It's been absolutely incredible and it's a lot of freaking

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Speaker 1: fun to see. So congrats to Freeman. Probably gonna win

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Speaker 1: the second World Series and gonna be a big part

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Speaker 1: of it. Probably gonna be World Series MVP. Couldn't happen

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Speaker 1: to the better guy, So happy for him. But for

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Speaker 1: Steven Tolver, you could find him at be Undersquare Outliers

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00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: on Twitter, slash x. My name is Sean Coleman. You

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00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: can find me at Stat's sec and hey, you can

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Speaker 1: actually read now right down here. It's perfect. You know

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Speaker 1: exactly where to find us. You can find the podcast

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Speaker 1: wherever you choose to listen. Find us on YouTube, part

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Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory family of podcasts. And shout out

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Speaker 1: to Brad Rowland doing double duty with the Hawks and

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00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: the Braves now helping us in this episode, our debut

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Speaker 1: episode on the YouTube era of Hamer Territory. Until next time,

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Speaker 1: go Raves. We'll talk to you again soon here on

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Speaker 1: the Hammer Territory podcast