Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
Speaker 1: and ever though in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up, China Tech on deck.
Speaker 2: We'd take a look at the latest from Beijing's tech sector,
Speaker 2: from earnings to chip developments and US restrictions plus more. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: AI spending is under scrutiny, with Della Marvel falling after
Speaker 2: their earnings, and we hear about the SEC's vision for
Speaker 2: crypto in the United States with Commissioner Mark Vader later
Speaker 2: this hour. But first we check in on these markets,
Speaker 2: which are broadly under pressure in the United States. We're
Speaker 2: not so in China, and that's a story of earnings. Look,
Speaker 2: we're off by one point three percent on the Nasdaq
Speaker 2: one hundred. We are still questioning the overall buildout of
Speaker 2: AI infrastructure. It's lumpiness and what we heard from Nvidio.
Speaker 2: But we spill into what it means AI servers for
Speaker 2: Dell and in d Marvel.
Speaker 3: But I'm looking at the.
Speaker 2: Golden Dragon name there sist, of course, a reflection of
Speaker 2: big tech in China and traded here in the United
Speaker 2: states a lot of ADRs well thanks to Ali Baba's numbers.
Speaker 2: We're hired by one and a half percent by do
Speaker 2: as well, doing well as we understand that their tech
Speaker 2: stack is continuing to flourish as China really looks to
Speaker 2: find domestic competitors building themselves versus being reliant on in
Speaker 2: video for example. Move on and have a look though
Speaker 2: at some of the US numbers that we're getting out
Speaker 2: at the moment. And I say that on the back
Speaker 2: of real worries for in video off by three and
Speaker 2: a half percent today. Yes, their earnings we still digest.
Speaker 2: But actually news reports that Ali Barbara is looking at
Speaker 2: its own AI chips to be made by itself, by
Speaker 2: Chinese manufacturing. We've also got the story of Baidu. As
Speaker 2: I said, Marvell is off by seventeen percent as we
Speaker 2: see concerns about lumpiness with its own demand. How are
Speaker 2: we seeing Marvell's technology and ask chips not be picked
Speaker 2: up in this current environment. Dell is off by eight
Speaker 2: percent as AI servers look lumpy, and that's where we go. First,
Speaker 2: Region can break it all down on the Dell front. Now,
Speaker 2: actually they beat and they raised, but when you dig
Speaker 2: into the detail. AI server bookings were less than the
Speaker 2: previous quarter.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, if we think about the timing of these deals, Caroline,
Speaker 5: there was one big deal that went in and it's
Speaker 5: unclear who it is, but it's probably one of the
Speaker 5: big neocloud vendors, whether it's a core Wave or Xai.
Speaker 5: So it is going to be sequentially down. But if
Speaker 5: we think about it from a second half to first
Speaker 5: half basis, it's ten billion even a second half versus
Speaker 5: first half. So you know, things are going well for
Speaker 5: for Dell.
Speaker 6: In terms of these.
Speaker 2: Deals, things are going well, but many had perhaps baked
Speaker 2: in just numbers up and to the right in terms
Speaker 2: of the market valuation. What is it that investors need
Speaker 2: to hear in terms of clarity on margins in particular
Speaker 2: because there is a bit of a fierce competition between
Speaker 2: Dell's super MicroC computer and others.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's where the issue is, right. I've always
Speaker 5: said that being a leader in the AI servers is
Speaker 5: a double edged sword. What you get in sales, you know,
Speaker 5: you're not getting it in margins.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 5: It's a high calorie, low muscle building type of business.
Speaker 5: And let me give you an example here. The one
Speaker 5: point two billion dollar AI server beat only acquitting to
Speaker 5: two cent beat in EPs, right, and that's going to
Speaker 5: flow through with the with maybe modest improvement even with
Speaker 5: the additional five billion dollars in AI sales in the
Speaker 5: second half.
Speaker 3: Well, Jin, how it's been a very busy week for you.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining senior analysts lue Meg Intelligence. Look,
Speaker 2: let's broaden out because elsewhere in the AI race, the
Speaker 2: US Commis Department has just said it is removing the
Speaker 2: ability for Samsung, s k Heinez Intel to move some
Speaker 2: goods from China without a license, dealing yet another blow
Speaker 2: to China's access to advanced chip making nohow for more.
Speaker 2: Blue Meg executive editor Mike Shephard breaks it all down. Basically,
Speaker 2: this is revoking waivers that they previously had what to
Speaker 2: bring in the chip equipment to the country.
Speaker 3: Break down exactly what this means.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right, Carol.
Speaker 7: The companies have received waivers from the Biden administration back
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty three allowing them under these agreements to
Speaker 7: bring in equipment to China for their massive chip making facilities.
Speaker 7: And most of what was produced there CARA were memory chips,
Speaker 7: and that's critical of course, for sk Heinex and for
Speaker 7: Samsung in particular. In this case, now it's under what's
Speaker 7: called a validated end user agreement, and that essentially is
Speaker 7: sort of like your pass. It's almost like you get
Speaker 7: a free pass based on this agreement and understanding and
Speaker 7: discussions with the government that is being revoked now. And
Speaker 7: the Commerce Department is saying in a statement accompanying the
Speaker 7: notice that was posted to the federal register this morning
Speaker 7: that what they're trying to do is deny to foreign
Speaker 7: chip manufacturers a benefit that wasn't extended to American chip manufacturers,
Speaker 7: and you mentioned Intel there. We have since learned that
Speaker 7: Intel has sold that portion of its China operations to
Speaker 7: sk Heinix, so it really applies only to the two
Speaker 7: South Korean companies in this case.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is in the statement, as you've been surmising
Speaker 2: for US, they said they do not want to allow
Speaker 2: companies to expand capacity or grade technology at manufacturing facilities
Speaker 2: in China. I'm noting that ASML shares for example, are
Speaker 2: down and they seem to accelerate their losses in the
Speaker 2: back of this new is a big chip equipment maker.
Speaker 2: All of this, though, is about the overarching competition that
Speaker 2: the US feels with China.
Speaker 7: It is about the competition with China, and then there
Speaker 7: are also is some push and pull on trade as
Speaker 7: well with other trading partners. And when you think about
Speaker 7: South Korea, Caro, the President of South Korea, was justin
Speaker 7: Washington earlier this week to meet with Donald Trump, and
Speaker 7: the whole question about the trade agreement and where tariffs
Speaker 7: would fall, just like with China, the questions about export
Speaker 7: controls and how semiconductor tariffs that are still to come
Speaker 7: might affect these two industrial champions in South Korea. When
Speaker 7: you think of Samsung and you think of s k Heinix,
Speaker 7: they are really at the vanguard of the economy there
Speaker 7: and that had to have come up in some context
Speaker 7: during those discussions with the US administration. And we have
Speaker 7: heard since from the South Korean Ministry of Trade. They
Speaker 7: say that they were warned ahead of time. According to
Speaker 7: jan Half, the news agency in South Korea, they were
Speaker 7: warned ahead of time bios officials that this would be
Speaker 7: coming down the road. Now, it's interesting if you parse
Speaker 7: the Commerce Department statement, they say that they will not
Speaker 7: be granting licenses to advance technology in China or upgrade
Speaker 7: or expand capacity, but it doesn't necessarily preclude maintenance or
Speaker 7: replacing existing equipment without carrying it to a new levels.
Speaker 7: So it'd be interesting how this affects you mentioned ASML,
Speaker 7: but also took you Electron and ASML competitor in this
Speaker 7: space of chip making equipment, and the impact of course
Speaker 7: also on the broader trade relationship likewise will be worth
Speaker 7: watching as well, Cara.
Speaker 2: Perfect context. As always, Mike Shephard, Happy weekend. We thank
Speaker 2: you talking of China and the chip innovation being forced
Speaker 2: to their men in many ways. Huawei just posted its
Speaker 2: first half profit, getting back into the black after deep
Speaker 2: Seek helped to ignite a wave of AI development across
Speaker 2: the country. Now Huawei has expanded into new areas, including
Speaker 2: electric vehicles, and it has restructured its cloud unit to
Speaker 2: focus more resources on AI and computing as according to
Speaker 2: Chinese media reports coming up it with China, Alibaba reports
Speaker 2: a surge and revenue. You guessed it from China's AI boom,
Speaker 2: But will it last? And let's look elsewhere in China.
Speaker 2: Byd we're just talking about how Pawei is getting into
Speaker 2: the world of evs. BUID currently off by seven percent
Speaker 2: now well post a shot profit drop as the price
Speaker 2: war is really hitting Chinese easy makers from New York.
Speaker 3: That's a blue leg tech.
Speaker 2: A lot of news coming out of Asia tech today,
Speaker 2: including China's warning against excess competition in the AI race. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Ai Chip Darling Camera con is one of its to
Speaker 2: its own investors of the recent run up in its stock.
Speaker 2: All of this as Ali Barber, the tech giant and
Speaker 2: one of the biggest names in global e commerce, reported
Speaker 2: earnings that saw a surgeon revenue, but it stemmed from
Speaker 2: China's AI boom. Blomberg's executive editor of Global Technology, Peter Elstrom,
Speaker 2: can help weave this narrative for us just starting with
Speaker 2: Ali Barber. It did incredibly well, but it seems to
Speaker 2: be on the back of AI demand rather than the
Speaker 2: e commerce to a certain extent.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was a.
Speaker 8: Pretty unusual earnings report. We just got done getting the
Speaker 8: numbers they reported. They actually missed on both revenue and nonprofit.
Speaker 8: In that case, you kind of expect their shares to
Speaker 8: be going down, not up. But what investors saw on
Speaker 8: this that was pretty positive is they saw the increase
Speaker 8: in AI demand and especially cloud services at Alibaba. So
Speaker 8: Alibaba said that AI related demand increased by triple digits,
Speaker 8: their cloud unit overall increased twenty six percent. That was
Speaker 8: quite positive for them. And then on the earnings call, Eddiewuo,
Speaker 8: the CEO, talked in quite a bit of detail about
Speaker 8: how their customers are using AI and some of the applications.
Speaker 8: They talked about automakers, for example, multimedia companies being able
Speaker 8: to develop these very targeted, customized AI models that they
Speaker 8: can use in their expansion. He also talked about agentic
Speaker 8: AI and the movement from chat pots to agenticai and
Speaker 8: how that puts even more pressure on the infrastructure, which
Speaker 8: is exactly what Alibaba does, much like Amazon, and that
Speaker 8: has resulted in a lot of demand for them. So
Speaker 8: it sounds very promising on that front. Just as we're talking,
Speaker 8: I see the shares are going up even more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, three months, we're ut fourteen percent.
Speaker 2: Were up eight percent on the day, Peter and like Hamas,
Speaker 2: and there are reports coming from the Wall Street Journal
Speaker 2: that Alibaba's doubling down on making its own chips, customized chips,
Speaker 2: actually looking for Chinese manufacturing of those chips. The same time,
Speaker 2: camber Con which is seen as market valuation double in
Speaker 2: just a month alone, is wanting its investors to hold
Speaker 2: steady on some of the roomors swirling around how much
Speaker 2: China is leaning in to the domestic chip arena, Peter,
Speaker 2: can you bring that down for us? How much is
Speaker 2: China worried about the sudden enthusiasm around domestic chips.
Speaker 8: Yeah, there's a lot going on in this space. Maybe
Speaker 8: a good way to think about it is that Vision
Speaker 8: is very determined to be able to get their own
Speaker 8: capabilities in AI and by extension, in semiconductors in particular.
Speaker 8: So Hilwei is really their leader in designing the kinds
Speaker 8: of chips that would compete with in Vidia in particular,
Speaker 8: they have their ascense ships. They have been used there
Speaker 8: not as good as in videos, customers there still would
Speaker 8: like to be able to get access to in video chips.
Speaker 8: Cambra Con is another company that's designing chips for AI
Speaker 8: that they are quite good. They're really focused on inferencing.
Speaker 8: They running the model, not as much training the models,
Speaker 8: which is where Nvidia really really excels at this point.
Speaker 8: And as you mentioned, Ali Baba is developing their own ships.
Speaker 8: Is very similar to Amazon, where they'd like to not
Speaker 8: pay the premium for the very expensive chips from somebody
Speaker 8: else if they possibly can. They want to be able
Speaker 8: to design them and then replace some of the more
Speaker 8: expensive chips that they maybe would buy from Huawei. In
Speaker 8: Amazon's case, they're paying premiums to Invidia. They want to
Speaker 8: have some alternatives in house that will be a little
Speaker 8: bit less expensive and also will just loosen their dependence
Speaker 8: and some of these chip makers not make them captive
Speaker 8: to whatever supplies they can get at any moment very much.
Speaker 2: The Chinese government not wanting a repeat of food delivery
Speaker 2: or of the ev battle that's going on, trying to
Speaker 2: restrain some of the over capacity that potentially might get
Speaker 2: built up. Peter Elstrom, perfect to have you today, Thank
Speaker 2: you very much. Indeed, happy week to Ken. Let's get
Speaker 2: back to those Ali Baba numbers and bringing Jacob Cook,
Speaker 2: co Farracy of e Commerce Consultancy WPIC Marketing and Technologies,
Speaker 2: because Jacob, we really let into the AI side of
Speaker 2: the equation with Peter Elstrom. But I really want to
Speaker 2: understand what about the e commerce flavor that we all
Speaker 2: know and love from Ali Baba in many ways, how
Speaker 2: has that performed for the Chinese domestic audience.
Speaker 9: Well, I think there was definitely some bright spots in
Speaker 9: that report. I mean, we were expecting reasonably good news
Speaker 9: after the last six eighteen the second biggest shopping festival
Speaker 9: being up roughly about fifteen percent. But when we look
Speaker 9: at the overall revenue of the company, I mean we
Speaker 9: get rid of the Turkish e commerce platform and a
Speaker 9: couple of their selloffs in the retail space, their revenue
Speaker 9: overall was up ten percent. So I think that's probably
Speaker 9: a lot of the really good news that investors are
Speaker 9: focusing on and why that stock is up so much
Speaker 9: despite the miss overall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the miss was in many ways completely
Speaker 2: digested when you're seeing the stock up more than eleven
Speaker 2: percent on the day. Jacob, give us what your reading
Speaker 2: is on consumer sentiment on the desire to be powering
Speaker 2: into e commerce, because many would say it's not great,
Speaker 2: but you perhaps have different signals.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean on the ground we have seen we're
Speaker 9: well past the years of thirty percent year over year growth.
Speaker 9: I mean we're talking still fifteen percent growth in twenty
Speaker 9: twenty five off the largest already e commerce market in
Speaker 9: the world. Those are obviously incredibly good numbers for businesses
Speaker 9: and brands I mean the instant commerce too, which I
Speaker 9: think is also really important. I mean that's basically since
Speaker 9: April War attention was put on that now too, and
Speaker 9: I think that roughly by our calculations, they could be
Speaker 9: up to fifty percent market share, really starting to compete
Speaker 9: with the likes of Maitlon and whatever else. So it
Speaker 9: shows us the consumers good flicky the travel platforms and
Speaker 9: really good for them. And I think that when we
Speaker 9: look at that restructuring now and being able to get
Speaker 9: back into north of double digit growth, really effective strategies
Speaker 9: on how to compete with PDD, it looks pretty good
Speaker 9: in terms of their core business, their e commerce business.
Speaker 2: How does the flywheel work when you think about adding
Speaker 2: AI and the investment there into all of its other
Speaker 2: offerings that go direct to consumer.
Speaker 9: Well, the AI in terms of especially in terms of
Speaker 9: product recommendations and overall building a profile. And I think
Speaker 9: that's actually why the instant commerce was so such a
Speaker 9: big part of this. If you look at how full
Speaker 9: stack really that product did or the offering is in China,
Speaker 9: You've got everything from the C to SE, the B
Speaker 9: to B, all the platforms, all the purchasing is there,
Speaker 9: including the instant commerce and overnight delivery. They're really gathering
Speaker 9: just a ton of data and I think they're going
Speaker 9: to be a little bit better positioned than the likes
Speaker 9: of May twe and some of the others that are
Speaker 9: focused on the consumer because they're getting so much data.
Speaker 9: And yeah, there was really good news in terms of
Speaker 9: what they're doing with the AI models as well.
Speaker 2: Jacob, what you do is you advise global brands about
Speaker 2: getting into Asia, such as China and Japan and the like.
Speaker 2: So how are global brands accessing a platform like Alibaba
Speaker 2: at the.
Speaker 6: Moment, Well, they're doing it. They're engaging a lot more.
Speaker 9: I mean even you know, overseas revenue was up I
Speaker 9: think almost twenty six twenty seven percent as well too,
Speaker 9: and that's a lot to do with the investments that
Speaker 9: have gone into Singapore. I mean, they're selling a lot
Speaker 9: of AI services to companies too, and they're also helping
Speaker 9: to move a lot of products. I mean they're signed
Speaker 9: now Logistics Network is really helping to connect South East
Speaker 9: Asia too and to be to use kind of China
Speaker 9: as a hub, you know, with their bonded free trades
Speaker 9: ons of really just dumping your products into that market.
Speaker 9: You know, in terms of mass and being able to
Speaker 9: sell all over through the region. Now, I mean they
Speaker 9: also own you know, one of the largest platforms in
Speaker 9: Southeast Asia with Lozada too, so it's pretty exciting in
Speaker 9: terms of what they're building out.
Speaker 2: Talking of dumping of products, Jacob, we're about to have
Speaker 2: a conversation all about Dominimus, but I want to ask
Speaker 2: you about geopolitics. I mean, how has it affected Ali
Speaker 2: Baba and its ability to grow?
Speaker 9: Well, Ali Baba's probably been the one that's been I
Speaker 9: mean there's been a lot of news. It's not just
Speaker 9: Ali Baba, but I mean we saw the ten cent
Speaker 9: releases a couple of weeks, so everybody's growing. Everybody seems
Speaker 9: to be getting the compute that they need. The data
Speaker 9: centers are growing really fast, one of the top growing divisions,
Speaker 9: so it doesn't seem to be affecting the numbers. I mean,
Speaker 9: this isn't the first time they've gone through tariff increases.
Speaker 9: There was you know, the first trade war as well,
Speaker 9: and they've seemed to come through all of that. It
Speaker 9: certainly stronger. Who knows, maybe they would have been growing
Speaker 9: faster without these but you know, it's hard to see
Speaker 9: or it's hard to even think that the damage or
Speaker 9: the the let's say headwinds that they're trying to you know,
Speaker 9: impose with these policies having really any effect. I think
Speaker 9: what you're going to see now is these restrictions really
Speaker 9: start to get lifted. There's there's really no point and
Speaker 9: you know it's hurting you know, US companies, I think
Speaker 9: just as much as as it was designed to impede
Speaker 9: the Chinese ones. So I expect more opening up through
Speaker 9: the rest of the year.
Speaker 2: Interesting, so because you're your expertise so important here, because
Speaker 2: you're on the ground, you're understanding what's going on there,
Speaker 2: and from a US perspective, were seeing limitations to invidio
Speaker 2: an AMD being able to sell in having to give
Speaker 2: fifteen percent away, not getting licenses as quickly as they
Speaker 2: might like, feeling that they're having to give away the opportunity. Jacob,
Speaker 2: you're not feeling that that's going to be in long
Speaker 2: term standing.
Speaker 6: No, I don't.
Speaker 9: I mean, look at you know Quinn three, the coder
Speaker 9: model and a lot of the other models to it.
Speaker 6: They're keeping up internationally.
Speaker 9: So the lack of chips and the lack of compute
Speaker 9: isn't isn't hindering these models, you know. Tencent, you know,
Speaker 9: released a couple of weeks ago said the same thing.
Speaker 9: They have all the chips that they need, you know,
Speaker 9: and that the advance is that this has spurned domestically
Speaker 9: at Huawei and Shanghai Semiconductor have been really strong, so
Speaker 9: they're not serving I think their intended purpose. And there's
Speaker 9: really no point that companies don't want these restrictions on
Speaker 9: anymore and people want to do more business over there.
Speaker 3: But do they even want the chips?
Speaker 6: Jacob, That's another good question.
Speaker 9: I mean, how far are they now, how far are
Speaker 9: they developed in those two years out of necessity? That's
Speaker 9: a really good question. I mean, we're going to see
Speaker 9: developments and we'll find out. I mean, you know, Nvidia
Speaker 9: is not doing very well today on this news. It's
Speaker 9: probably not a very good sign for them. So hopefully
Speaker 9: those doors open up and they can get into that
Speaker 9: market asap, and that they're still demand, you know, at
Speaker 9: those price points compared to what's being produced in China.
Speaker 2: Jacob Cook, C of WPIC Marketing and Technologies, through an
Speaker 2: expertise in the region, we thank you. Let's stick with
Speaker 2: all the e commerce area because today marks the end
Speaker 2: of the US the Minimus exemption nearly a century. We
Speaker 2: allow low value goods recently up to eight hundred dollars
Speaker 2: worth of value to enter the country duty free.
Speaker 3: The change expected to have a wide impact.
Speaker 2: Set some pack with Josh Kettter, his global CEO of Spretail.
Speaker 2: It's an e commerce company specializing in logistics for oversized
Speaker 2: products marketplace management, Josh.
Speaker 3: Have people got ahead of this? Have they changed their
Speaker 3: business models?
Speaker 10: Yeah, Carolyn, I think a lot of folks have. They've
Speaker 10: known this coming for a while. I think others, though,
Speaker 10: were pretty stuck in the business model they had built,
Speaker 10: because they really built it around leveraging the dominamus loophole.
Speaker 10: So I see a lot of businesses who had been
Speaker 10: doing work to kind of prepare themselves for this, and
Speaker 10: I see others basically having to shut down their business model.
Speaker 2: Franklin, why would you have to shut down a business line?
Speaker 2: What kind of products or what were they unable to
Speaker 2: achieve to make it profitable for them?
Speaker 11: Yeah?
Speaker 12: I think it's mostly the smaller sellers.
Speaker 10: So a lot of smaller sellers had they basically have
Speaker 10: to figure out how to do the paperwork in order
Speaker 10: to do the custom clearance and they're just not set
Speaker 10: up for that scale as well as they were really
Speaker 10: competing on the premise that they were able to transact
Speaker 10: at a much lower price point than the rest of
Speaker 10: the digital shelf, and so that gave them a competitive
Speaker 10: advantage to have lower price and now that they they
Speaker 10: don't have that, they didn't have anything else that was
Speaker 10: differentiated enough.
Speaker 12: In order to win. And so I think those are
Speaker 12: the ones who are really at risk here in struggling.
Speaker 3: The ones that have made it work.
Speaker 2: How much have they near shored, reshored, looked at other countries.
Speaker 10: Yeah, you see a lot of that. A lot of
Speaker 10: our brands have been doing that as well. I'd say
Speaker 10: our business model. We do a little over a billion
Speaker 10: online and most of our stuff is not demnimous. But
Speaker 10: the ones that we work with who do it, they've
Speaker 10: already been moving a lot of fulfillment onshore. We've been
Speaker 10: actually helping folks with that as well as they've been moving.
Speaker 12: To other countries.
Speaker 10: And I think really the news today shuts down the
Speaker 10: other country loophole. We already saw the impact to this
Speaker 10: from China back in May, and so I think the
Speaker 10: market already had a chance to see how that would
Speaker 10: play out, and now we're just kind of closing up
Speaker 10: the other port of entries and really forcing that more domestically.
Speaker 2: Okay, so have any decided to make domestically build in America?
Speaker 3: Are they building in Mexico?
Speaker 10: I think there's still a lot of near shoring with Mexico.
Speaker 10: I think there's a lot of brands that I talk
Speaker 10: with that are looking at what they can do domestically,
Speaker 10: but the labor market is so expensive that it can
Speaker 10: be really challenging to do it in a cost efficient way.
Speaker 10: I see some brands that are being successful at it,
Speaker 10: but it's a challenge and it's a multi year journey.
Speaker 10: This is not something that can happen overnight. So the
Speaker 10: real impact here is just raising prices, turning off certain
Speaker 10: products that are not yet ready. They don't have the
Speaker 10: sophistication to handle that compliance, to remit the duties, to
Speaker 10: even get the import bonds. A lot of sellers had
Speaker 10: never had to deal with that type of complexity, and
Speaker 10: so I think you see a mixed bag across the board.
Speaker 10: So what kind of products Josh fast Fashion is certainly
Speaker 10: one of the ones that are hit the most, but
Speaker 10: you see it across the spectrum. You know, Dominimus went
Speaker 10: from in twenty eighteen just a few billion dollars to
Speaker 10: over you know, sixty seventy billion dollars in recent years,
Speaker 10: and you see it across the spectrum a lot of
Speaker 10: hard good sellers as well, but most of it comes
Speaker 10: from China and the areas where you really see it
Speaker 10: as a consumer. You're going to see it on temuchine
Speaker 10: areas that we're really focused on importing those products through
Speaker 10: the diminimous loophole and taking advantage of that as well
Speaker 10: as Etsy kind of this the custom unique products that
Speaker 10: smaller you know, sellers and creators are selling overseas and
Speaker 10: then importing to the US. You also see those products
Speaker 10: impacted in a longer time.
Speaker 2: Do you think this will bolster your own infrastructure e commerce,
Speaker 2: own infrastructure in inside the United States?
Speaker 10: Josh, We've certainly benefited from it because, you know, mostly
Speaker 10: because we were not leveraging the dominamous loophole, if you will,
Speaker 10: We're playing by the rules, and I think almost anybody
Speaker 10: who was playing by the rules will see the benefit here.
Speaker 10: They're going to have less folks undercutting them on price
Speaker 10: because they're not paying the same tariff for duties that
Speaker 10: we're paying.
Speaker 12: I also see in the fulfillment structure.
Speaker 10: We've already seen a lot of brands and companies have
Speaker 10: worked on building more onshore fulfillment capabilities and moving those
Speaker 10: products here. So actually we're also going to benefit from
Speaker 10: having faster ship speeds because a lot of the dominimous
Speaker 10: loopholes will show slower ship speeds coming over from China
Speaker 10: and other countries. And now we're going to really preposition
Speaker 10: those goods and inventory domestically because there's no advantage to
Speaker 10: keeping them, you know, in the country of origin.
Speaker 6: If you will.
Speaker 2: Quicker, maybe a bit more expensive. Josh Kess Global CEOs Freetail.
Speaker 2: Great to get your ex tease, Thanks so much. We
Speaker 2: welcome our TV and radio audiences worldwide. The US government
Speaker 2: has begun distributing economic data on public blockchains, marking the
Speaker 2: latest Trump administration endorsement of the crypto industry. The move
Speaker 2: creates another avenue for publishing the GDP data. According to
Speaker 2: the Commerce Department officials, we here to discuss really the
Speaker 2: regulatory changes affecting the crypto industry after the crackdown of
Speaker 2: the Biden years. Is SEC Commissioner Mark Yuaida. We welcome
Speaker 2: you to radio and TV. And just recently Project Crypto
Speaker 2: was launched, and this really sort of endorses the initiative
Speaker 2: to modernize regulation, to make it fit for purpose for
Speaker 2: current innovations within decentralized finance. Are we getting enough clarity?
Speaker 2: How quickly might we know what tokens of securities?
Speaker 3: For example?
Speaker 13: We have a lot of ground to catch up. The
Speaker 13: last four years in the Biden administration, we saw a
Speaker 13: lot of effort to suppress crypto, at least in the
Speaker 13: United States. That was one of the things that the
Speaker 13: President did, I think was the third dayvid Iss administration,
Speaker 13: Jerreman twenty third one.
Speaker 6: He issued that.
Speaker 13: Executive order with the clear goal, we need to make
Speaker 13: the United States one of the global leaders in innovation
Speaker 13: in crypto and digital assets. That was why, you know,
Speaker 13: one of the things I did immediately upon becoming the
Speaker 13: acting chairman was to name one of my fellow commissioners,
Speaker 13: Hester Purse, who spent an awful lot of time talking
Speaker 13: to the crypto community, You're going to be in charge
Speaker 13: of our efforts, leader of our Crypto task Force, and
Speaker 13: that now under our new chairman, Paul Atkins has now
Speaker 13: pivoted into what we call Project Crypto. We are working
Speaker 13: side by side with our colleagues at the CFTC. They
Speaker 13: announced what they call Cryptosprint, So we're really anxious to
Speaker 13: get some things done.
Speaker 2: In terms of getting things done, there is a sort
Speaker 2: of favorite pitch of innovation going on, and a lot
Speaker 2: of that is to do with perhaps adoption of new ETFs.
Speaker 3: Around things I'm interested in.
Speaker 2: For companies tricycle, treasury companies, companies that are building up
Speaker 2: crypto as their assets, or indeed new ETF springing up.
Speaker 2: Are you comfortable with the pace of innovation as it
Speaker 2: is going far as fast or too fast from your perspective, Well,
Speaker 2: they are.
Speaker 13: Part of the innovation equation, so to speak, but they're
Speaker 13: just only a part of it. We've got a lot
Speaker 13: more to do, you know, with these companies. The SEC
Speaker 13: and it's ninety years of existence, has always been a
Speaker 13: disclosure oriented regulator. That means we don't we're not supposed
Speaker 13: to put our thumb on the scale of whether an
Speaker 13: investment is good or bad. What our concern is is
Speaker 13: whether or not you're telling the truth when you market
Speaker 13: and provide the disclosures with respect to these products so
Speaker 13: they can put crypto in their treasury. They need to
Speaker 13: disclose that, they need to disclose the risks about that
Speaker 13: they need disclose what their intense intentions are is in
Speaker 13: accordance with our rules and regulations. But there's so much
Speaker 13: more that we need to do.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: Important for those companies that are looking to be treasury companies,
Speaker 2: or those that want to put Solana, for example, or
Speaker 2: XRP or even Dogecoin in an ETF how soon will
Speaker 2: they know whether those two are indeed deemed securities or not.
Speaker 13: Well, we've already put out eight number of statements from
Speaker 13: our staff in the Division Corporation Finance which says some
Speaker 13: things are not securities. Now we are working on, as
Speaker 13: Chairman Akins said as part of his Project Crypto Kickoff,
Speaker 13: to provide some commission level guidance. What is and is
Speaker 13: not a security when it comes to crypto, it is
Speaker 13: tied up in a decade's old Supreme Court decision called
Speaker 13: Howie sec Versus Howie, And so whether or not it's
Speaker 13: us an investment contract, the good news is that it
Speaker 13: is what I do as a principles based test. Is
Speaker 13: it an investment in money and a common enterprise with
Speaker 13: the expectation of profits from the efforts of others. How
Speaker 13: do you apply that in the crypto space. That's what
Speaker 13: we're looking to do in the next month. Can't talk
Speaker 13: about timing, but what I can say is this has
Speaker 13: been part of the Crypto Tasks Forces efforts from day
Speaker 13: one this year is you know, we took a position
Speaker 13: which I objected to, put out many descents objecting to it,
Speaker 13: with this idea that every crypto, with exception of Bitcoin,
Speaker 13: which is what our former chairman Gary Gensler testified before Congress,
Speaker 13: was a security. No, we have this whole framework, we
Speaker 13: weren't applying it properly. Said we're going to do this.
Speaker 13: That was what the Crypto Tasks we started doing. That's
Speaker 13: why they held this series of roundtables. In fact, that
Speaker 13: was the very first roundtable was talking about what ought
Speaker 13: to be in and outside the scope of this.
Speaker 2: We're speaking of Marcubator, Commissioner for the United States Securities
Speaker 2: and Exchange Commission.
Speaker 3: I'm interested.
Speaker 2: Previously it was sort of regulation by enforcement, and you said,
Speaker 2: you don't want to put your funb on the scale
Speaker 2: in this way. But how many crypto enforcements are ongoing
Speaker 2: at the moment. Can you tell us in terms of
Speaker 2: the amount of investigation still going. I know that for example,
Speaker 2: you unicoin is being sued for example, and that happened
Speaker 2: in May.
Speaker 13: We have a number of ongoing investigations and actions related
Speaker 13: that would say our cryptocrypto related. We have an offer
Speaker 13: a lot of what one might call fake crypto, which
Speaker 13: is somebody who purports to be involved in crypto, but
Speaker 13: it is nothing more than the types of Ponzi schemes
Speaker 13: and other scams that we have seen since probably the
Speaker 13: creation of currency.
Speaker 2: How many staffers are looking at forcement now compared to
Speaker 2: the prior four years.
Speaker 13: Well, what we've done is we still have a unit,
Speaker 13: although we've changed it from the cyber in Crypto unit
Speaker 13: to be more broadly focused on technology. We have an
Speaker 13: enormous number of tips, complaints, and referrals that come into
Speaker 13: the agency every year. In fact, I think we're on
Speaker 13: track from nearly forty five thousand. A number of them
Speaker 13: relate to crypto. So we deploy it staff appropriately.
Speaker 2: And you said you're working in lockstep almost with the CFTC.
Speaker 2: How is that relationship going at the moment.
Speaker 13: We've got a great relationship, and it's one of the
Speaker 13: things that was very important on the financial regulatory front,
Speaker 13: not only between US and the CFTC, but US with
Speaker 13: Treasury and the banking regulators about how to address crypto.
Speaker 6: You saw this with the.
Speaker 13: Resident's Working Group on Digital Assets they issue the report
Speaker 13: last month. This has been something that has been I
Speaker 13: think really all of the relevant regulators in the Executive
Speaker 13: brand char all communicating with each other and all coordinating
Speaker 13: with each other to make sure that we can make
Speaker 13: this effort successful.
Speaker 2: Now the SEC does more than just look at crypto,
Speaker 2: and I'm interested in at the moment, you're currently suing
Speaker 2: in a musk, and that's to do with alleged violation
Speaker 2: of securities law about when he was taking a significant
Speaker 2: chunk in Twitter, he had owned about five percent.
Speaker 3: In excess of and he was meant to make that declaration.
Speaker 2: Many would say he didn't do it quickly enough.
Speaker 3: He wants that suit dropped. Should it be dropped?
Speaker 13: Well, I'm not going to comment on any particular investigation
Speaker 13: or enforcement action that we currently have, but what I
Speaker 13: will say is, you know we have these scheduled thirteen
Speaker 13: D and thirteen G requirements out there. One of The
Speaker 13: key parts about whether or not you can file on
Speaker 13: a thirteen G is whether or not you are a
Speaker 13: passive investor. And one of the things that we did
Speaker 13: take action is and there are a large number of
Speaker 13: very influential asset managers that hold significant chunks well above
Speaker 13: five percent of a company stock. The question is what
Speaker 13: sort of relationship should they be having that requires additional
Speaker 13: disclosure if they're asking or directing the company and says
Speaker 13: you need to do the following things. For instance, on
Speaker 13: climate change, you need to hit net zero goals, you
Speaker 13: need to have a plan of how you get to
Speaker 13: net zero. You're no longer a passive investor that requires
Speaker 13: additional disclosures of some form because we have concerns whenever
Speaker 13: they're or at least just say Congress pass laws telling
Speaker 13: that we have really large shareholders more than five percent,
Speaker 13: which perhaps doesn't sound a lot, but in the real
Speaker 13: world that is quite a bit for a company that
Speaker 13: they need to provide the appropriate levels of transparencies of
Speaker 13: their discussions with company management.
Speaker 2: Well, plenty more on your agenda other than just the
Speaker 2: long case, and indeed, just ccrypto, it's been wonderful having
Speaker 2: some time time with you let you get back to
Speaker 2: the day job. Marc Veda, of course, Commissioner for the
Speaker 2: United States Securities and Exchange Commission the SEC. Meanwhile, President
Speaker 2: Trump is threatening so called substantial tower some countries that
Speaker 2: impose digital levees, just days after we understand that Meta
Speaker 2: CEO Mark Zuckerberg privately raised concerns during a White House meeting.
Speaker 2: So also say that Zuckerberg met with President Trump last
Speaker 2: week behind closed doors. Let's get more on this with
Speaker 2: Riley Griffin RDY. Is interesting that basically lobbying works, it seems.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 14: I last week we learned from sources that Mark Zuckerberg
Speaker 14: had come to the White House to talk about many
Speaker 14: things that have been on the agenda in previous meetings.
Speaker 14: As you know, Caroline, Mark Zuckerberg has been making frequent
Speaker 14: trips to the White House since the outset of the year,
Speaker 14: talking about artificial intelligence, European regulation. What was new here
Speaker 14: was the discussion about digital service taxes. These are the
Speaker 14: taxes that are imposed on companies related to their revenue
Speaker 14: generated from users abroad, and this takes place in France, Italy, Australia, Spain.
Speaker 11: And the lobbying did indeed work.
Speaker 14: We saw that Donald Trump, the President tweeted on truth
Speaker 14: social rather about these taxes threatening TARIFFSUGG just on Monday.
Speaker 2: Ronnie tell us the context of the relationship between Mark Zuckerberg,
Speaker 2: I met him more broadly with the administration now because
Speaker 2: it's a very different place than it was in the
Speaker 2: previous Trump administration.
Speaker 11: No doubt.
Speaker 14: Remember in the past, Donald Trump had called Mark Zuckerberg
Speaker 14: a criminal.
Speaker 11: He'd threatened to throw him in jail.
Speaker 14: This was some of the conflict that arose after January sixth,
Speaker 14: when Meta suspended Trump from all of its platforms. Since then,
Speaker 14: we've seen a rekindling of that relationship that really began
Speaker 14: in Earnest after the president was re elected. This past November,
Speaker 14: Zuckerberg has made frequent trips to mar Lago, to the
Speaker 14: White House, and he's.
Speaker 11: Donated to the inauguration via Meta.
Speaker 14: He attended the inauguration even co hosted a black tie
Speaker 14: event in the President's honor. This is an ongoing relationship
Speaker 14: where seeing Zuckerberg actually purchase real estate in DC. He
Speaker 14: now owns two homes near the Naval Observatory. They are
Speaker 14: all in and this is just the latest and greatest
Speaker 14: conversation that has happened between the two as that relationship continues.
Speaker 2: So Ronnie, in terms of impediments on revenue growth, is
Speaker 2: digital services tax the biggest one all mag Zocobug's agenda
Speaker 2: when it comes to things that could be changed from
Speaker 2: an administration's level, and or the other areas that he's
Speaker 2: concerned about.
Speaker 14: Well, remember Meta itself, it's the parent company that oversees Instagram,
Speaker 14: it oversees WhatsApp, Facebook. These are products that make the
Speaker 14: most of their revenue from advertising at users. So these
Speaker 14: kinds of taxes set a uncomfortable precedent for Meta. European
Speaker 14: regulation is much more concerning to the company than what
Speaker 14: we're seeing here in the US, especially with a friendly
Speaker 14: administration to Silicon Valley. So between the digital service taxes
Speaker 14: between other regulations in the EU around speech, Mark Zuckerberg
Speaker 14: has been quite concerned there. We're also thinking about AI
Speaker 14: and regulation of AI as the company pivots and really
Speaker 14: makes that perhaps the top priority of this year as
Speaker 14: it invests hundreds of billions in infrastructure.
Speaker 2: And I think it was President Trump and his cabinet
Speaker 2: meetings showing the Louisiana data center that Metro is currently building.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech Reporter Riley Griffin. It's so good to catch
Speaker 2: up with you.
Speaker 3: Thank you. Now coming up, we take a look at
Speaker 3: the state of the secondary.
Speaker 2: Market as investors look to follow Trump's policies when it
Speaker 2: comes to their investments.
Speaker 3: We speak with them and jang a pitchbook.
Speaker 2: While let's just check in on some of the big
Speaker 2: movers of the day of the week in video.
Speaker 3: It's been all about their runnings.
Speaker 2: We're all by three percent now on the day, the
Speaker 2: worst week since May for the company, as we digest
Speaker 2: competition coming from China, lack of access perhaps into China,
Speaker 2: but keep.
Speaker 3: An eye on some other areas.
Speaker 2: Marvel Technology, it makes really specific chips for the likes
Speaker 2: of Amazon. The likes of Microsoft were off by sixteen
Speaker 2: percent as they were unable to really give clarity on
Speaker 2: the future of demand.
Speaker 3: Some lumpiness there.
Speaker 2: We're seeing Dell Technologies off by eight percent as there
Speaker 2: was perhaps slight slow down in bookings for their AI servers.
Speaker 3: This is Blueberg Tech.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the now not so nascent secondary market
Speaker 2: for US startup equity. It's shifting as the Trump administration
Speaker 2: pushes an America First agenda in AI, In crypto and defense,
Speaker 2: Pitchbook data shows demands still outweighs supply investors eager to
Speaker 2: follow these very themes in terms of investing joining us now.
Speaker 2: Emily Jiang, senior venture capital research analyst at Pitchbook, Look,
Speaker 2: many people want to be able to buy shares in
Speaker 2: these hot, hot startups, and few can. But there is
Speaker 2: a secondary market where are people piling into and how Emily.
Speaker 4: There has been a really big concentration in the top companies,
Speaker 4: mainly because information is really hard to combine the secondary market.
Speaker 4: Venture is already opaque. So if you're looking to invest
Speaker 4: adventure and you're nearer to the space and using secondaries
Speaker 4: as a tool, you'll look at companies that are getting
Speaker 4: the most headlines, that are raising the most capital more recently.
Speaker 4: And that's why we're seeing such a heavy concentration. About
Speaker 4: over ninety percent of training volume on hive is in
Speaker 4: the top twenty companies, and.
Speaker 2: I can imagine that's the open Aiyes of the world,
Speaker 2: the Anthropics, the Androlls. If you think are crypto names
Speaker 2: that are still to come out. I think Gemini is
Speaker 2: looking at some sort of exit. Sixty one billion dollars
Speaker 2: in volume. How does that compare to the needs of
Speaker 2: say VC companies that perhaps one to exit certain positions
Speaker 2: or indeed the actual workforce of startups you want to
Speaker 2: be able to sell out and have liquidity on the
Speaker 2: secondary market.
Speaker 4: Sixty one billion dollars is notable, but for comparison, it's
Speaker 4: about two percent of primary unicorn valuations and it's about
Speaker 4: a third of primary VC exit value over the same
Speaker 4: time period. So what it means is that secondaries are
Speaker 4: a vital liquidity valve and have a lot of room
Speaker 4: to grow, but in its current state, it really only
Speaker 4: benefits the select employees and investors that have access to
Speaker 4: these top companies that are driving much of the volume.
Speaker 2: What about the volume changing around IPO expectations. There's reports
Speaker 2: in the Wall Street Journal that as soon as next
Speaker 2: week the marketing once again of Karan is going to start.
Speaker 3: I mean, what will.
Speaker 2: We see in terms of the hype around the secondary
Speaker 2: market if which this company is about to IPO.
Speaker 4: So there is a very strong correlation between primary VC
Speaker 4: exit activity and the secondary market. For example, when space
Speaker 4: and defense company Voyager when parlic Olier this year, immediately
Speaker 4: the secondary market looked at and Yryl, which is also
Speaker 4: a defense company, and they are trading at one of
Speaker 4: the top ten companies across multiple platforms, so there is
Speaker 4: this symbiotic relationship. And that's also because of this pricing transparency.
Speaker 4: Secondary investors are inherently different than primary venture investors because
Speaker 4: they have a lot shorter timelines. They don't want to
Speaker 4: wait ten years for an exit. That's why they're investing
Speaker 4: in the secondary market. So as soon as the IPO
Speaker 4: window opens and they're more activity, then secondary investors will
Speaker 4: probably likely buy more secondaries.
Speaker 3: Who are their secondary investors.
Speaker 4: There is a really wide range, but because secondaries have
Speaker 4: a lower barrier to entry for venture with shorter timelines,
Speaker 4: like I mentioned earlier, Also you're investing in lay stage,
Speaker 4: more mature unicorns that have proven business models. We're looking
Speaker 4: at more family offices, pensions, more non traditional investors. Mostly
Speaker 4: there's also a lot of venture firms that are either
Speaker 4: creating secondaries specific funds or there are already a lot
Speaker 4: of established players in the space that look at secondaries
Speaker 4: as their specific strategies. So there is a wide range
Speaker 4: of investors in the space.
Speaker 2: It is the tale of the haves and have nots
Speaker 2: when it comes to raising money. So is that this
Speaker 2: case in the secondary market, we're seeing certain companies and
Speaker 2: certain sectors totally overlooked.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the companies that are really gaining the most
Speaker 4: attention is correlated with primary VC as well. There are
Speaker 4: a lot of tailwinds from key policy parties of the
Speaker 4: Trump administration, including AI, crypto, fintech, defense, security, and we're
Speaker 4: really seeing a lot of interest in that space through
Speaker 4: the secondary market as well.
Speaker 2: Lastly, IPOs, are we going to get a whole spate
Speaker 2: of them in September?
Speaker 3: Do you think is the window going to remain open?
Speaker 4: Window is slightly open, and it's more of a reset
Speaker 4: rather than a rebound right now, just because a lot
Speaker 4: of the companies that we are seeing filing for IPO
Speaker 4: are aligned with the Trump administration's key sectors, or they
Speaker 4: are incredibly profitable, like Figma had a really strong business model,
Speaker 4: strong fundamental So it's the tales two cities for IPOs
Speaker 4: right now. You have to be aligned with these key
Speaker 4: sectors or you have to have strong fundamentals, profitability, or
Speaker 4: at least a path towards them.
Speaker 2: I mean, Shang's great to catch up with you, I
Speaker 2: pitch Pock. We appreciate it. It's been a big week
Speaker 2: to say the least for AI investment themes. With earning
Speaker 2: video Marvel Dell investors maybe questioning the pace.
Speaker 3: Of the AI infrastructure spend going on right now. Maybe
Speaker 3: they're questioning Chinese domestic competition.
Speaker 2: Joining us now to break it DOWNINU Bak Intelligence senior
Speaker 2: analyst Manny saying money, let's focus in on what, if anything,
Speaker 2: Marvel is telling us. Because they are all about, you know,
Speaker 2: chips specifically designed for an Amazon or for one of
Speaker 2: the hyperscalers. The lumpiness has got people worried about if
Speaker 2: you can't win now, when can you?
Speaker 3: Is this just an idiosyncratic story.
Speaker 15: It sounds like they weren't as polish last night as
Speaker 15: we heard Jensen, you know, talking about the top four
Speaker 15: hyperscaler spending six hundred billion dollars. So I would put
Speaker 15: Amazon in that top four. But look, I mean, you
Speaker 15: will have periods of digestion. That's always been the case
Speaker 15: with data center spend. But the one thing I would
Speaker 15: call out is Jensen's saying data center market will be
Speaker 15: three to four trillion. Now, traditionally that's more like three
Speaker 15: hundred billions, So he's talking that market becoming.
Speaker 6: Ten x by the end of the decade.
Speaker 15: That's huge if that's true, I mean we're talking about
Speaker 15: durable growth.
Speaker 2: And so therefore, looking at Dell's AI server business and
Speaker 2: the fact that the book of the mount booked was
Speaker 2: half of what it was the previous quarter, don't worry
Speaker 2: about that because this is going to come and fits
Speaker 2: and starts.
Speaker 15: Exactly, and you have to think through twenty thirty. Because
Speaker 15: that's what he's saying. Every company will spend more on
Speaker 15: AI infrastructure. The hyperscalers will keep spending on their capex
Speaker 15: because there is so much demand. And look, I mean
Speaker 15: they're the biggest company out there. They have more visibility
Speaker 15: into what the supply is, what the demand side is.
Speaker 15: So if he's saying that and the use cases are emerging,
Speaker 15: the next vector I would point out is the cost site.
Speaker 12: So if Gemini is.
Speaker 15: Able to, you know, do a GENI use case at
Speaker 15: a fraction of a cost that OpenAI can, then that
Speaker 15: will be a durable advantage. And that's where you know,
Speaker 15: a company like Google that is vertically integrating with their
Speaker 15: LAM chips may have an advantage in the long run
Speaker 15: if you know, the LM performance matches at parody quickly.
Speaker 2: The Chinese giants are vertically integrating as well. Is there
Speaker 2: a worry for Nvidia there because the stock is down
Speaker 2: on reports that China's really going at it for domestic chips.
Speaker 15: And that to Ali Baba, I mean, we're talking about
Speaker 15: the largest cloud player developing an in house AI chip,
Speaker 15: and that's where you know, all the hyperscalers, if they
Speaker 15: decide to go in house, will have a bearing on
Speaker 15: the semiconductor companies, whether it's Nvidia, Marvel or anyone else.
Speaker 2: Broadcom in Vidia currently having its worst week since May
Speaker 2: at the moment of by three percent. Man Deep Singh
Speaker 2: has been across our network, I think, on every single
Speaker 2: show throughout this week. We wish him a RESTful weekend
Speaker 2: watching the tennis manage sing of Bloomberg Intelligence. Now that
Speaker 2: does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Do not
Speaker 2: forget to check out our podcast. You can find it
Speaker 2: on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify
Speaker 2: and iHeart.
Speaker 3: Wishing you a wonderful Labor Day.
Speaker 2: For those that are going to celebrate on Monday, We've
Speaker 2: got a day of rest, so big thanks to the
Speaker 2: team here.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Tech