Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today's
Speaker 1: guest is the owner and founder of Freeland Pursuit and
Speaker 1: Treeline Academy. We've all growing up, you know, figured out
Speaker 1: how to use Google Earth, We figured out how to
Speaker 1: use you know, on x Go, Hunt base Map, whatever
Speaker 1: it may be. But Mark may have did the best job,
Speaker 1: maybe the only one that's put all this together in
Speaker 1: a very easy to understand, comprehensive roadmap to how to
Speaker 1: use the tools right, how to use them effectively, what
Speaker 1: you should be looking for. And so today we're going
Speaker 1: to dive into how to use the program to find stuff.
Speaker 1: We're probably gonna dive into the nuts and bolts of
Speaker 1: it and how to find elf. That's what everybody wants
Speaker 1: to skip to and and and kind of get the
Speaker 1: short track too. So welcome to the show. Mark, thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. Jason as good. So Mark and I
Speaker 1: are here at the Hunting Summit. It's going good. Um.
Speaker 1: I've got to hear Mark present. And what I love
Speaker 1: about Mark is his ability to use all of the programs,
Speaker 1: not just you know, the companies that he works with.
Speaker 1: He knows the programs so well in and out. He
Speaker 1: will tell you you know what on X is best
Speaker 1: for you know, you've talked about like roads to the trailheads.
Speaker 1: You know some of these things you've talked about, like
Speaker 1: Guya is better because of the seven and a half
Speaker 1: old school topo. Um, so we want to dive into
Speaker 1: you know, finding elk. How do you use Google Earth
Speaker 1: on X, Go Hunt Gaya, all of these programs, all
Speaker 1: of this technology. We have to make sure that whether
Speaker 1: you're coming out you know, from East on your first
Speaker 1: elk hunt ever, whether you're an experienced Western hunter just
Speaker 1: want to try a new spot, I want to to
Speaker 1: give you some of these tools to make sure when
Speaker 1: you show up that you've you've did your research. You
Speaker 1: have spots A, B, C, D and E all the
Speaker 1: way to Zee if you need them. You have what
Speaker 1: what I would consider a hunt plan. But you've never
Speaker 1: had to, you know, leave your computer desk. So Jason
Speaker 1: thinks it's it's been a really good get to meet
Speaker 1: you over the last couple of years too. And so
Speaker 1: you know you said something about all these tools, and
Speaker 1: just before we get started, you know you don't have
Speaker 1: to use all the tools, right. Um, just like when
Speaker 1: you call ELK, you can make one sound if you
Speaker 1: just make a cow call every now and then it'll
Speaker 1: work for you, right, But that's not the way you
Speaker 1: do it right. You use multiple versions, multiple scenarios, multiple setups,
Speaker 1: different kinds of tactics and guys. I think when it
Speaker 1: comes to East scouting and going about finding elk, at
Speaker 1: least digitally, you've got to think that same way if
Speaker 1: you become tunnel visioned, or I call it like yesterday
Speaker 1: in the in the in the presentation I mentioned if
Speaker 1: you want to be a one dimensional elk hunter, you
Speaker 1: can be a one dimensional, But if you want to
Speaker 1: be a multidimensional and be willing to learn some new
Speaker 1: things and use the right tool for the right job,
Speaker 1: I want to be really clear about that. I am
Speaker 1: pro all the apps. I mean, I I love on X,
Speaker 1: you know, I love go Hunt, I love Guy, I
Speaker 1: love even like base Map for lots of things. But
Speaker 1: it's like when you go to work on your car, Jason,
Speaker 1: would you only use your screwdriver? No you would not,
Speaker 1: so you don't have to use everything. I tell everyone.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, man, I don't know about buying all
Speaker 1: these apps, and I said, absolutely not. But what I
Speaker 1: always almost always recommend is I always I never go
Speaker 1: into the field without running two apps, so that I
Speaker 1: have a primary and a backup, so that I get
Speaker 1: a little different tope over you, Like you mentioned guy,
Speaker 1: I'm get a little different Like if I get a
Speaker 1: snow covered aerial photo layer, then the other app is
Speaker 1: more likely to not have the air the snow because
Speaker 1: they get their aerial photos from different sources. So that's
Speaker 1: just you know, to kind of kick things off. I
Speaker 1: think that one A lot of people misunderstand me and
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, I'm pro one apper I'm
Speaker 1: really negative about I'm not. I'm really focusing on what
Speaker 1: each app excels at and I use it specifically for
Speaker 1: what it's good at. But to do that, you have
Speaker 1: to get organized. You have to get a little organized,
Speaker 1: You have to spend a little time learning the tools,
Speaker 1: and you have to get beyond your comfort zone. People
Speaker 1: get comfortable, you know, and they start using and they
Speaker 1: just like you're talking about we're talking about ELK spots earlier.
Speaker 1: You know the spot and now you don't even need
Speaker 1: to turn on your app and blah bla. You know
Speaker 1: that's fine, but the day you moved to another one, um,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to you might have to. And so
Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of the way it works for me,
Speaker 1: and the way I kind of teach it is I
Speaker 1: I try to teach a multi pronged, multidimensional approach to
Speaker 1: finding out. Yeah, yeah, good And and you're getting to
Speaker 1: sit on this course. I would say me and Mark
Speaker 1: probably are in line of time what we're looking for
Speaker 1: to what we're looking for to find ELK. And in
Speaker 1: my opinion, you only get so many days in September
Speaker 1: if we're if we're trying to you know, you can
Speaker 1: ELK October November, but specifically trying to both hunt ELK
Speaker 1: get to where they want to be during that rut.
Speaker 1: I don't want to waste even a day or two
Speaker 1: trying to find ELK. I need to show up at
Speaker 1: a trailhead being ELK because that starts that game for us. So, UM,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping everybody can can get some great information. We're
Speaker 1: gonna jump into some user questions right off the about.
Speaker 1: If you have your own question, UM either hit us
Speaker 1: up on social, you can email ct D at phelps
Speaker 1: Game Calls dot com. UM send us your own questions.
Speaker 1: So these questions actually stemmed from some of the users
Speaker 1: and from sitting in the class yesterday. But my first
Speaker 1: the first question to you, Mark is if you can
Speaker 1: only pick one elk feature. So we're when we're talking features,
Speaker 1: we're talking wallows, benches, burns. I don't know if we
Speaker 1: can necessarily calculator, you know, count fringes because they're in
Speaker 1: all of these areas. What would be the number one feature?
Speaker 1: Like if you can only hone in on one and say,
Speaker 1: and we all know, we were all gonna agree combinations
Speaker 1: of these features is the most important. But if you
Speaker 1: could hone in on one, what would you say you
Speaker 1: would look for in an area Before I answer that,
Speaker 1: because I get asked that a lot, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I want to be careful about what I say here
Speaker 1: because one of the biggest things I teach in the
Speaker 1: class was exactly what I just said. If you want
Speaker 1: to be a one dimensional Elk hunner, you could expect
Speaker 1: one dimensional success, and one dimensional success for Western d
Speaker 1: i Y public Land now is about ten percent. If
Speaker 1: you want to be a ten percent elk Kunda, then
Speaker 1: you just keep acting like a tempers at elk hunter.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to features, like you know what
Speaker 1: I'm setting in there, what I like to do. I
Speaker 1: call it stacking the odds, And basically what I mean
Speaker 1: by stacking the odds, I mean stacking these features. Right.
Speaker 1: But there are some of my favorites. So, like I mentioned,
Speaker 1: I saved the best for last yesterday and my presentation.
Speaker 1: I like benches um and most areas and in most states.
Speaker 1: It kind of applies across the board. Like water obviously
Speaker 1: is really important in some areas and not so important
Speaker 1: in others. But benches um and the right bench location,
Speaker 1: the right bench set up, the right bench orientation, the asthma,
Speaker 1: the facing direction of the bench, the timber densities, those
Speaker 1: are all pretty consistent I found with all the places
Speaker 1: I'm hunted elk. And one of the reasons I like
Speaker 1: benches and to have the way I evaluate benches is
Speaker 1: elk has been a lot of their time during the
Speaker 1: day in that resting period. Right. So, if you're a
Speaker 1: caller and you love calling out like I do, you uh,
Speaker 1: and of course you do, benches need to be on
Speaker 1: the top of your list because you need even if
Speaker 1: you don't approach the bench, you're gonna try to put yourself.
Speaker 1: Like what we talked yesterday, in that transitional zone between
Speaker 1: the metal feeding are that you tried to identify and
Speaker 1: maybe a water source and maybe those benches and try
Speaker 1: to triangulate what they're gonna do. And so benches, I
Speaker 1: would say, is my number one. I mean, we've we've
Speaker 1: hunted enough country, we've walked enough. You'll be on a
Speaker 1: steep slope, you know, steep up slope, hit that bench,
Speaker 1: steep up and and why elk will bed anywhere. I've
Speaker 1: seen them bed on slopes. They'll dig out the upside
Speaker 1: of a tree and they'll figure out a way to bed.
Speaker 1: But I would say the majority of the time, over
Speaker 1: ninety percent of the the time, those elk are gonna want
Speaker 1: to get to that bench. Um, they've got good shade,
Speaker 1: they've got better bedding area, they've got you know, for
Speaker 1: for their natural defenses. As we mentioned the way the
Speaker 1: tips the wind typically works in these flat areas, they
Speaker 1: can lay on that that downhill edge, um, look for
Speaker 1: any danger. So it just those benches seem to attract
Speaker 1: you know, they whether it's wind, a combination of safety, um,
Speaker 1: more comfortable for the herd to land. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: would and correctly what you think in my observations of
Speaker 1: my I've been hunting out for thirty three years now
Speaker 1: and multiple states a year, so I'm an adventurer, guys.
Speaker 1: I I know I would probably have better success if
Speaker 1: I went back and really hunted some of the amazing
Speaker 1: places I've been, right, But I rarely, rarely do because
Speaker 1: I'm always the grass is greener for me, you know,
Speaker 1: And and it's to my detriment much, but I take
Speaker 1: my lomas. I'm in new places every year all the time.
Speaker 1: So if I've gotten good at East scouting, it's probably
Speaker 1: because out of necessity, because when you hunt three to
Speaker 1: four states a year, you can't do boots on the ground,
Speaker 1: and if you're changing spots every year in those states,
Speaker 1: you got to get good at this or you're not
Speaker 1: going to find them any elk. Right, So bench is
Speaker 1: one thing I've noticed is it's a real um You've
Speaker 1: got a real good chance if you can find these
Speaker 1: prime bench spots. They're very historical, like you'll find years
Speaker 1: and years of rubs on the right like and when
Speaker 1: you find old new intermediate rubs, you know you're in
Speaker 1: the mecca because year after year they've used they've just
Speaker 1: these big bulls don't get big by just running around
Speaker 1: laying in new spots all the time. They have picked
Speaker 1: these bench areas very strategically right, and as long as
Speaker 1: the pressure remains consistent or what they're used to dealing with,
Speaker 1: you can expect to find them there a lot of times,
Speaker 1: do you agree? I mean? And and just just to
Speaker 1: make sure everybody understands what we're talking about benches. UM,
Speaker 1: Let's say you have a two thousand feet you know
Speaker 1: ridge from the crick bottom to the top. We're not
Speaker 1: talking about flat top ridges. We're not talking about flat
Speaker 1: levels in the creek. We're talking about in And I
Speaker 1: would prefer and I know marks the same way cause
Speaker 1: I sat through your course. I want that bench to
Speaker 1: be on Ideally, my ideal benches on a north slope
Speaker 1: or north northwest northeast. It's over halfway up, and it's
Speaker 1: got pretty decent timber on it, um if possible. And
Speaker 1: and the reason I feel is that they can easily
Speaker 1: jump over to the south slope to feed if they
Speaker 1: need be, if that's where their food's at. Um. It
Speaker 1: keeps them cool, cool throughout the day everywhere that we
Speaker 1: get the elk hunt in the northern hemisphere. Um. And
Speaker 1: and it's just that's my ideal bench. And and when
Speaker 1: I show up to an area, if i've if I've
Speaker 1: looked at it, that's one of the first spots I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go hit, just to make sure they're elk in
Speaker 1: the area. I can prove it through that. Now, you
Speaker 1: don't want to go in steak up their bedding area,
Speaker 1: blow it up right off the bat, but you want
Speaker 1: to go investigate around it, make sure there's tracks going
Speaker 1: in and out of it. See see what's around you know,
Speaker 1: so on benches too, you know you we mentioned all
Speaker 1: these tools. So because he's it's really important to understand
Speaker 1: that all of the hunting apps. And we're not gonna talk.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not gonna get into anyone particular. I'm
Speaker 1: just because they're all. They're all I mean to me,
Speaker 1: they're just their tools of the trade. But all topographic
Speaker 1: maps are not created equal, right. Some are more relaxed,
Speaker 1: some are more summarized, some are more the lines are
Speaker 1: more smoothed out. So when it comes to breaking down benches, now,
Speaker 1: some of these what I call modified or adjusted topography maps. Um,
Speaker 1: they're perfect for a lot of things, right, But when
Speaker 1: it comes to finding benches, particularly, I like to look
Speaker 1: at the seven point five minute USGS tobomap with the
Speaker 1: finest index contours and the finest contra lines I can find,
Speaker 1: because some of these elks, like you said, they'll kick
Speaker 1: out of bed. Everybody's always looking at that giant mega bench,
Speaker 1: you know, on that Well, if you see a giant
Speaker 1: mega bench, so has a lot of other hunters when
Speaker 1: they're doing their east gutting. So I now I don't
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I won't go to those places, but
Speaker 1: I'm also looking for these supplemental micro benches that are
Speaker 1: close to other features. Maybe they got a water, maybe
Speaker 1: they gotta look like they've got a drainage run through them,
Speaker 1: or maybe one of my we talked about this in
Speaker 1: the course in the President. One of my favorites is
Speaker 1: when benes are staircase like you've got a bench and
Speaker 1: then it's a little bit of a steep and then
Speaker 1: another bench and another steep, and if you have to
Speaker 1: have any kind of drainage in there, that even adds
Speaker 1: more field to the fire. And like you said, if
Speaker 1: that bench is halfway to three quarters the way up
Speaker 1: the top, that's even better. So basically what we're saying
Speaker 1: here is a bene is not always a bench. I
Speaker 1: like to find benes that stack some of these odd
Speaker 1: multipliers within the bench um identification, like the location of
Speaker 1: the bench, the orientation of the bench of staircases, or
Speaker 1: the chain of it. How what the relationship is to
Speaker 1: an edge habitat or a burn or a beetle kill
Speaker 1: or a feeding area. So what we were seeing earlier
Speaker 1: guys is elk tend. In my opinion, they tend to
Speaker 1: migrate to these benches historically, even when the food sources
Speaker 1: may be adjusting, Like if they're feeding in meadows and
Speaker 1: it starts to turn dry and they start feeding in
Speaker 1: more timber more, they may still be using those same
Speaker 1: bench areas, but they're hitting different feedings um features, right,
Speaker 1: traveling a little farther, Yeah, they're traveling a little farther,
Speaker 1: even water. They'll make some adjustments. But I found those
Speaker 1: benches are really consistent. They're not they're like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: they're you gotta kiss a lot of frogs to define
Speaker 1: those mecca be those uh just mecca um benches. Because
Speaker 1: and it's so funny to me, like you'll see one
Speaker 1: on the map that just looks like there should be
Speaker 1: like a thousand elk there, and you'll go there and
Speaker 1: and it's just whatever. You know, there's not much there.
Speaker 1: You'll go to one that just looks mediocre and they'll
Speaker 1: be a elk can't even that bench, right, So it's
Speaker 1: elk I always. Elk are where they want to be, guys,
Speaker 1: you find them. Yeah, And but there are some things
Speaker 1: that you can do to increase the odds of running
Speaker 1: into them. And that's really what what I'm trying to
Speaker 1: help people with is that trying to help you learn
Speaker 1: some things that will help you turn the tables and
Speaker 1: stack some of these odds in your favor. That's really
Speaker 1: the goal for sure. Well, thanks thanks for taking that question.
Speaker 1: We're gonna jump into now my own question, um for Mark.
Speaker 1: But yeah, if you have your own questions, feel free
Speaker 1: to submit them CTD at Phelps Game Calls dot com. Um,
Speaker 1: we we have another question, but it's actually gonna kind
Speaker 1: of get rolled up in in some of my questions,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna jump forward and get into the discussion.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to rewind those
Speaker 1: thirty three years of elk hunting. Here. If you were
Speaker 1: a brand new elk hunter, you decided this year I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go l hunting. You have no idea where they live. Besides,
Speaker 1: you've seen some off the county highway, you know, our
Speaker 1: county road. What would you recommend to two people too?
Speaker 1: If you're brand new l hunter? Where do you start?
Speaker 1: How do you how do you start to build this
Speaker 1: picture of what elk like where you're gonna find him
Speaker 1: in the mountains, you know, and I'm talking d I
Speaker 1: Y public land, you know OTC type stuff like where
Speaker 1: are these elk? You know? Are they seeking refuge? Are
Speaker 1: they seeking food? You know? You we we've got you know,
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen features as el hunters look for that
Speaker 1: that and then some of them have higher multipliers. Um,
Speaker 1: what would you focus in on your you're looking at
Speaker 1: a new unit, like, how do you start your approach
Speaker 1: to find it? That's a great question because I did
Speaker 1: the prestation on elk fighting features, because I remember I
Speaker 1: told you that I monitor some of the progress in
Speaker 1: my course, and these guys are just jumping to the
Speaker 1: LK finding and they're forgetting about the core hunt area identification.
Speaker 1: They're forgetting about the zones of pressure, they're forgetting about
Speaker 1: the hunt parameters. So there's all these things that I
Speaker 1: have kind of adopted into my plan before I ever
Speaker 1: start looking for a bench. Let's just say one of
Speaker 1: the features. There's so many things that has to happen. Guys,
Speaker 1: Just because there's a bench on the side of the
Speaker 1: mountain that looks good and it's next to a fire
Speaker 1: does not mean there's gonna be out there. There could be.
Speaker 1: So how I start is I spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time in the research phase. Guys. I use all the
Speaker 1: tools available. I don't become one dimensional in the research phase,
Speaker 1: just like I don't become one dimensionally in the app phase.
Speaker 1: I use all the available tools. So what I want
Speaker 1: to do is, let's say we're gonna hunt Montana. Okay,
Speaker 1: we've decided that Montana is the place we want to go.
Speaker 1: We want to figure out where in Montana we're gonna go.
Speaker 1: I gotta start looking at these at these units and
Speaker 1: seeing one, what is the elk population in those units? Now, Guys,
Speaker 1: I don't get so caught up in this. Well, they're
Speaker 1: these you got you can kill a three thirty to
Speaker 1: three sixty bull in this unit. Now there's some truth
Speaker 1: to that. Maybe the guys, the key is getting in
Speaker 1: numbers of ELK for most hunters, right, the select few
Speaker 1: guys that are looking for the for that gemstone. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's fine, but I'm looking for very large numbers of ELK.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at migration data. I'm looking at I'll
Speaker 1: tell you another one that in a second here. But
Speaker 1: so I'm looking at statistics. Obviously I even go to
Speaker 1: this guy. I know this is work, but this is
Speaker 1: how I do it. So I download the last three
Speaker 1: years of statistics in Montana and I put them in
Speaker 1: a spreadsheet of all the units, or even all the units,
Speaker 1: whatever units your interests, and I want to run averages, right,
Speaker 1: because you've got to remember, most of these states do
Speaker 1: not have well I shouldn't say most, but a lot
Speaker 1: of states do not have mandatory surveys. They do some
Speaker 1: random stuff, right, So they might call you one year,
Speaker 1: they might not call you again for five years, and
Speaker 1: I just think they do a poor job. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna call him out, especially Montana. So you can't look
Speaker 1: at those stats and really make predictable calculations on one year. Now,
Speaker 1: I do think with the random surveys, if you did
Speaker 1: an average. So the first thing I like to do
Speaker 1: is I like to prepare my own little spreadsheet. The
Speaker 1: stats are all available if they're PDF. Take the time
Speaker 1: to type of man, guys, it's money or it's time
Speaker 1: well spent. Breakdown some units. So I'm looking for elk populations,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for total hunters. I'm looking for the percentage
Speaker 1: of six point bull killed, not size, just a percentage
Speaker 1: of six point bulls killed, if it's available. But mainly
Speaker 1: what I'm looking at is bull of cow ratio. I'm
Speaker 1: looking for significant numbers of bulls of cow ratio. And
Speaker 1: then I start kind of sorting out those units, right,
Speaker 1: and I'll pick a few and kind of zero in
Speaker 1: on them, and then I'll start google Earth flying guys.
Speaker 1: I do not start looking for elk finding features right
Speaker 1: off the bat. That's kind of all. It's not the
Speaker 1: last step, but it's down the road, right. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: one of the things I like to do is not
Speaker 1: only look at at those elk numbers and then divide
Speaker 1: it by like hunter days in that unit, because I
Speaker 1: want to not only be because there might be a
Speaker 1: great unit, but it may have half the hunters in Montanas, right,
Speaker 1: And so one of the other tips we do is
Speaker 1: then go find that hunter days and then divide, you know,
Speaker 1: the success rate or to buy and come up with
Speaker 1: some sort of a number or an output, like all
Speaker 1: right now, these units are sorted by ELK numbers, bold
Speaker 1: cal ratio numbers. But then how few hunters right there?
Speaker 1: And I've always figured all hunters lie the same. So
Speaker 1: if we're at least using the averages and everybody lying
Speaker 1: that at least the data we've got the best we're
Speaker 1: gonna get, it's what you're gonna get. So then I'll
Speaker 1: tell you. I don't say this very often, but guys,
Speaker 1: every state that has ELK produces an ELK management report,
Speaker 1: and they can be up to two pages long. Guys,
Speaker 1: they're not designed for hunters, but there is so much
Speaker 1: information and then those like oh, the herd here is
Speaker 1: doing this, and the herd here is doing that, and
Speaker 1: then migration is getting bigger here and it is getting
Speaker 1: smaller here. Those things just can if you do the
Speaker 1: stats and then you read through those. It's a quick
Speaker 1: Google search for Montana ELK management report, our ELK management
Speaker 1: study or objectives and all the things will start coming up.
Speaker 1: But you take the time to read through that report,
Speaker 1: you will be amazed with the historical knowledge that you
Speaker 1: just implanting your to help guide you in the process.
Speaker 1: So I kind of do that, and then I then
Speaker 1: I read these reports, I look at objectives kind of
Speaker 1: make you know, I want to hunt areas that have
Speaker 1: good huntable populations about. So then what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1: Really one of the most important things I think is
Speaker 1: EA scouting is and I don't talk about this a lot,
Speaker 1: and I should because it's it's really a big part
Speaker 1: of the course. But the zones of pressure. Now people
Speaker 1: get confused by that. They're thinking, oh, you're trying to
Speaker 1: get away from hunters, You're trying to get far in. Well,
Speaker 1: I do sometimes, but really, what I'm saying, guys, you
Speaker 1: have to understand where the hunters are going to park,
Speaker 1: where they're gonna access, what roads are going to use.
Speaker 1: And if you start marking all that, and I got
Speaker 1: a whole system, we won't really get in that. But
Speaker 1: I had this whole system to help you basically diagram
Speaker 1: out this hunting pressure. If you take time to do that,
Speaker 1: you'll be just amazed again at what will jump out it.
Speaker 1: You'll be like, oh, look at this spot right here.
Speaker 1: So I get guys from Oregon calling me all the
Speaker 1: time about Oregon and Washington. Man, we got roads everywhere.
Speaker 1: I can't really get far from this thing, and you
Speaker 1: always talk about packing in. I'm telling you right now,
Speaker 1: I think it's easier to find ELK in high pressure
Speaker 1: areas than it is in low pressure areas. And everybody's like,
Speaker 1: you're out of your mind. Here's why. Think about it
Speaker 1: in a high pressure area with a lot of roads,
Speaker 1: because there's if you start doing the zones of pressure,
Speaker 1: there's only a few places they can get away right
Speaker 1: to get a little seclusion. If you look, if you
Speaker 1: march into them, I'm just going to the middle of Mattcalf.
Speaker 1: We are, Bob Marshall. Those help can be anywhere, right.
Speaker 1: They haven't seen a person, so they haven't seen a person.
Speaker 1: Thing go anywhere they want. There's nothing moving around. So
Speaker 1: in some ways, guys, if it's done right and you
Speaker 1: take the time to analyze it, finding ELK in high
Speaker 1: pressure areas is almost easier than low pressure areas. UM
Speaker 1: I prefer to hunt low pressure areas because I like
Speaker 1: to call ELK. And one of the problems with the
Speaker 1: high pressure they get you get calling issues right. So
Speaker 1: but that's really the only reason I don't like people.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of anti social, like lampers, and I like
Speaker 1: to call elk that haven't been called to a lot.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just because I'm not a very good caller,
Speaker 1: and it's way I don't know even for I mean,
Speaker 1: it's way easier to call a bull and that's uh
Speaker 1: not been educated and not been messed with. But as
Speaker 1: far as finding elk, right, guys, they're always frustrated with
Speaker 1: Oregon and New Mexico and watching some of these dates.
Speaker 1: Have a lot of road networks and the stuff. Guys
Speaker 1: use it to your vantage, but you've got to approach
Speaker 1: it systematically. I'm telling you, the average guy cannot look
Speaker 1: at a map, cannot just look down and see all
Speaker 1: that road network and say I'm gonna go here, because
Speaker 1: that looks like that's a little a little isolated. You
Speaker 1: might get lucky. But if you do this, I do
Speaker 1: this circle. If you do this, if you put a
Speaker 1: radius around all the trail heads, I do a two
Speaker 1: mile radius around all trail heads. I do a one
Speaker 1: mile radius around all roads, and I mark it with
Speaker 1: markarts and then I look at what's left. If you
Speaker 1: do that, you'll be shocked at what starts jumping out.
Speaker 1: Then I start looking at these pockets like that. That's
Speaker 1: when I start looking for features in those areas that
Speaker 1: makes sense because of the pressure evaluation. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: a great tip. One thing I'd like to do now
Speaker 1: is we both know of all the features we look for. UM,
Speaker 1: we're gonna jump ahead a little bit and now you've
Speaker 1: you've you went to the and Wildlife website, You've figured
Speaker 1: out data that you need to harvest data or the
Speaker 1: best you can. Um, you know, it's not always possible
Speaker 1: to put boots on the ground. The one nice thing
Speaker 1: me and you have is we've been to enough areas
Speaker 1: that have had elk. We go back and it's almost
Speaker 1: like retroactively going back and then re re e scouting,
Speaker 1: like well, why did this area have so many elk?
Speaker 1: So we've got all of this. But if you're a
Speaker 1: new hunter, you've identified an area, you've identified a unit
Speaker 1: you think you can get to where there's no pressure.
Speaker 1: You know, you maybe you've jumped on Google Earth and
Speaker 1: looked at the trailheads in September whatever you need to.
Speaker 1: You're like, all right, I've got this spot. I can
Speaker 1: you know, get water here, I can camp here before
Speaker 1: we get there, Like what makes an elk spot typically good?
Speaker 1: Using all of the elk features and and then kind
Speaker 1: of their multipliers, let's kind of walk through, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of the list of elk features at least what
Speaker 1: we're looking for. You know, it's it's very easy to
Speaker 1: say elkn need three things. They need food, water, and cover.
Speaker 1: Like you you hear that said all the time. I
Speaker 1: say it all the time. But there's more to it
Speaker 1: than that. Like, let's dive into what's food? What kind
Speaker 1: of is it? Is it a migration area? Are these
Speaker 1: elk going to continue to push higher and higher through August?
Speaker 1: Or they maxed out in July? Like? These areas are
Speaker 1: sometimes different. Um, you know those bulls that you scouted,
Speaker 1: maybe you do get a scout all summer. Those bulls
Speaker 1: are gonna move somewhere around August fifteen, Like do you
Speaker 1: know where they're going? Do you know where the groups
Speaker 1: of cows are? Um? Water that can mean different stuff
Speaker 1: to different elk in different regions. You know, some areas
Speaker 1: every creeks plumb full, some areas have springs. Some those
Speaker 1: elk are gonna literally need to live the entire herd
Speaker 1: is going to have to live out of a little seat. UM.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about food, cover, water, um. But then you
Speaker 1: know all of these things. I think everything that we
Speaker 1: talked about ELK features can fault under that in one
Speaker 1: form or another. You know, whether it's a bench that's
Speaker 1: probably security, um. Comfort. Let's just start at the top
Speaker 1: and walk down through the ELK features that we both
Speaker 1: know we're looking for. Let's just let's not spend a
Speaker 1: lot of time talking about each one because we go
Speaker 1: that's a whole for you, you know, um or deal.
Speaker 1: But I think it's important expose everyone to kind of
Speaker 1: the things that I'm looking for. So once we've you know,
Speaker 1: identified or spot and we've determined that we are interested
Speaker 1: in it, guys, I look at a ton of places
Speaker 1: that I never hunt. It just doesn't pan out. Even
Speaker 1: though it met the It met the criteria for the stats,
Speaker 1: it met the criteria for the pressure right the roads.
Speaker 1: Everything I had some remote and as I had everything
Speaker 1: I was looking for, but the feature set just didn't
Speaker 1: support what I was looking for. And when I say
Speaker 1: feature said, I do about ten to twelve things, depends
Speaker 1: on the region. Um. But the first thing I do
Speaker 1: is it's part of the pressure evaluation is trailhead and
Speaker 1: trail analysis. Not many hunters do this, and I don't
Speaker 1: know why, but they should, and I, like I said yesterday,
Speaker 1: there's really only one tool you can use to do it,
Speaker 1: and that's Google Earth. You need that in order to
Speaker 1: look at that level of detail. You need the highest
Speaker 1: zoom capability that you can get, and currently that's with
Speaker 1: Google Earth. Now, as these apps get better and better
Speaker 1: and better, that may change, but it presently um that's
Speaker 1: still the best tool for getting fine detail worked on.
Speaker 1: I look at every trailhead. Is it a Walmart parking
Speaker 1: lot or does it look like there's only room for
Speaker 1: two cars? That tells you so much right there. Most
Speaker 1: guys just look at the maps. I'm gonna go to
Speaker 1: trailhead be and they show up and it looks like,
Speaker 1: you know, it looks like Costco and they're like, oh man.
Speaker 1: And then and then they're immediately in a negative mindset,
Speaker 1: right They're deflated, which you know, and maybe there's reason,
Speaker 1: but maybe there's not reason. So I analyze every trail head.
Speaker 1: I'm really I'm really picky about that. The next thing
Speaker 1: I do is all the trails that are on the
Speaker 1: map on the U S G S topo map that
Speaker 1: are in my hunt area. I zoom in on every
Speaker 1: one of them. I want to see. Can I see
Speaker 1: the brown line? Is there grass in it? Are there
Speaker 1: multiple lines meaning side parallel lines? That can mean one
Speaker 1: of two things. If you start seeing a trail that has,
Speaker 1: for example, multiple lines, that means there's either outfitters or
Speaker 1: there's cattle. So because if it's just a hiking trail,
Speaker 1: you won't see that, right, there's just little nuances like that.
Speaker 1: The lot of guys don't really probably think about putting
Speaker 1: in their arsenal. So I kind of break down the
Speaker 1: area and that tells me a lot about I've already
Speaker 1: done my pressure analysis, like I've said, now, now I
Speaker 1: kind of have an idea of where everyone's parking, how
Speaker 1: many people are parking there, and how they're using those
Speaker 1: networks of trails. And if I see a really really
Speaker 1: prime like the example I showed yesterday, really really prime unit,
Speaker 1: one of the best in Montana, and a really obvious trail,
Speaker 1: but there was no sign of anybody walking on this trail,
Speaker 1: and we started breaking it down and it was this
Speaker 1: giant Beetle Kill area. So we immediately knew there's probably
Speaker 1: a good chance the reason is not being used is
Speaker 1: because it's gonna be difficult, right, Yeah, So that's that
Speaker 1: start their second Well, and not in any particular word,
Speaker 1: I don't want to say second, just you know, these
Speaker 1: are just the features I'll try to make sure I
Speaker 1: remember in the right order. So, um, candians, creeks, and drainages.
Speaker 1: I evaluate all the drainages. They're very important, ELK, what
Speaker 1: direction they faced, the flat bottoms, how steep they are? Um,
Speaker 1: do they have appropriate topography? What? How are they how
Speaker 1: are they relate into the zones of pressure? Are their
Speaker 1: trails in the bottom? Are there no trails in the bottom?
Speaker 1: Those kind of features, the trails and canyons, creeks and drains,
Speaker 1: and I would include basins and bowls and in that
Speaker 1: as well. The next thing is probably, um, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think off the top of my head here, Um
Speaker 1: what I would want to say next, Well, we'll just
Speaker 1: jump into it. So fires, guys, fires and ELK just
Speaker 1: go hand in hand, and a lot of hundreds know it.
Speaker 1: So they look for fire zones. You've gotta be methodical
Speaker 1: when you're researching, and it's not I hear so many
Speaker 1: people say all the time, Oh, fire zones are great
Speaker 1: for elk. I'm like, okay, that's good. Well why weren't
Speaker 1: what time? When? How well does the fire have to be?
Speaker 1: How steep does the fire? I mean, there's so many things.
Speaker 1: Giant fires, guys, and some of these fires are huge.
Speaker 1: Where they how do they come in and out? Where?
Speaker 1: Where are they most likely to come in and out?
Speaker 1: We talked a lot about that, so breaking down fires
Speaker 1: and the edges of those fires. What does the edge
Speaker 1: look like? Is it a straight edge or is it
Speaker 1: a jagged edge? Are there burned timber patches, unburned timber patches.
Speaker 1: All these things kind of stack up within fires to
Speaker 1: make them more desirable to help for me. Beetle kills
Speaker 1: one of my favorites, you know, But beetle kills, as
Speaker 1: we talked about, they're very difficult to evaluate because you
Speaker 1: in order to hunt a beetle kill, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: you have to know when it started. Right. If you
Speaker 1: go into a year old beetle kill is gonna be
Speaker 1: a problem. It's gonna be very difficult. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: very very strenuous physical. It doesn't mean the I was
Speaker 1: gonna say some of the toughest hunt of my hunts
Speaker 1: of my life have been in beetle kill where you
Speaker 1: don't touch the ground for a week at a time.
Speaker 1: But then the old hunting is just great. And so
Speaker 1: it's just really what you're after on the hunt, Like,
Speaker 1: is it going to frustrate you to high hell to
Speaker 1: have to be, you know, dodging logs, But as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get into kind of the prime time in
Speaker 1: your opinion, to hunt beetle kill. That's right. I like
Speaker 1: the window. And one of the one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I think I like beetle kills is I think guys hunters,
Speaker 1: a lot of hunters are super scared beetle kills, and
Speaker 1: I think it's a limit that you can use to
Speaker 1: your advantage. I think it's something to people. Oh, I
Speaker 1: don't have any interest in that, and uh or I
Speaker 1: think a lot of guys they don't even know they're
Speaker 1: hunting a beetle kill until they get there and then
Speaker 1: they see it. Um. But there are a lot of
Speaker 1: studies guys on beetle kills, and I've read almost everything
Speaker 1: I can find about it, but most of the studies
Speaker 1: are showing that the elk prefer the beetle kill to
Speaker 1: a certain point. Once it becomes the jackpine type situation,
Speaker 1: the elk use it less and less and less. There's
Speaker 1: high pressure situation. Elk and low pressure do not tend
Speaker 1: to go into those match stick environments as much or
Speaker 1: more than they will UM in a high pressure. So,
Speaker 1: for example, a lot of research in Colorado being done
Speaker 1: on beetle kills because the whole state's pretty much wiped out. Well,
Speaker 1: these elk are learning how to live in these beetle kills.
Speaker 1: Like mass they've piled up beetle kills. These elk are
Speaker 1: just living year round. They're not even migrating anymore, and
Speaker 1: they're adapting. And guys that are capable and willing to
Speaker 1: do it UM are having good luck with that. And
Speaker 1: so beetle kills is one UM. Slopes, you know, UM
Speaker 1: the right degree of slope, the right orientations. I spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time on slopes. And you know, there's
Speaker 1: some apps that are coming out now that have tremendous
Speaker 1: slope analysis tools. Cal Tobo is a free site you
Speaker 1: can use. It's got tremendous slope analysis. You know, elk
Speaker 1: really prefer they really like that twenty degree. It's like
Speaker 1: their magic zone. Once it gets up to closer to six. Now,
Speaker 1: I say, here's the other thing I want to make
Speaker 1: sure everyone knows, is I interchange percent and degree. But
Speaker 1: that's not the way I should be doing it because
Speaker 1: percent in degree or not the same. Guys, make sure
Speaker 1: you understand that. So when you like looking Google Earth,
Speaker 1: it's in percent when you look at most other things
Speaker 1: in degree, I want to say it's about half, but
Speaker 1: it's not quite half. So twenty degrees. That's not complete,
Speaker 1: but you can kind of work off of that. But
Speaker 1: you know, people say, oh, I see Helk on super steep,
Speaker 1: so of course you do. Of course you do what
Speaker 1: puts them on that super steep. Well, pred ation people
Speaker 1: pressure will cause late season, even because the snow being
Speaker 1: um when blown off the slopes. There's reasons that Elks
Speaker 1: starts spending time on more steeper slopes, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: but during archery season, where they can go wherever they want,
Speaker 1: it seems like that twenty is the magic and so
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time kind of like Okay,
Speaker 1: there's this bench area, what's the slope, what's the slope?
Speaker 1: Bang in this area, and uh, do I hunt an
Speaker 1: area only because it has twenty degree slopes? No, it's
Speaker 1: just another one of these. But I see it. I
Speaker 1: just added to the list of features. And what are
Speaker 1: we doing. We're stacking the odds, right, So we already
Speaker 1: mentioned benches, um, funnels, and saddles. I spend quite a
Speaker 1: bit of time on funnels and saddles, mainly because in
Speaker 1: high pressure areas, if I'm hunting, I'm just gonna give
Speaker 1: you guys a really good tip. If you're hunting Colorado,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people there are guys, but there's
Speaker 1: a lot of elk. We were talking, I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of elk. Saddles and funnels are at the top
Speaker 1: of my list. In Colorado. There's a lot of them,
Speaker 1: and the mountains are steep, the terrain is big, elevations
Speaker 1: are big, and they you know, when given the chance,
Speaker 1: they love the path of least resistance. Right, So, saddles
Speaker 1: and funnels, travel corridors, timber connections, those are all really
Speaker 1: important in high pressure areas. You know, in low pressure states,
Speaker 1: you get you draw my primo tag in Nevada, in Utah,
Speaker 1: you'll see elk walking across giant meadows all the time, right,
Speaker 1: And that's what you always see on TV, But in
Speaker 1: OTC States, you just don't see that as much, right
Speaker 1: you would, you agree? And they use these corridors, you know,
Speaker 1: to move around, so I always want to identify those
Speaker 1: as well. So that's a few of them, um that
Speaker 1: I look for. Yeah, and I want to elaborate a
Speaker 1: little bit on and maybe this is fast forward and
Speaker 1: a little bit um. When I show up to a
Speaker 1: to a trailhead, it's hunting season, now we're scouting is done.
Speaker 1: You had made mention of passes and saddles. Um. One
Speaker 1: thing we we did talk about is the fringes which
Speaker 1: you like to look out on, you know, big timber
Speaker 1: to fire edges. You're looking at meadow to timber edges
Speaker 1: when I show up to a trail head, to very
Speaker 1: quickly proof the area. Now we don't want to go
Speaker 1: blow them out of their beds and whatnot, but I
Speaker 1: want to go check and and I will have I
Speaker 1: told you I've burned it into my mind this area,
Speaker 1: so I don't I don't have my apple marked up.
Speaker 1: I know I'm gonna walk down this drainage. I want
Speaker 1: to check this meadow edge and then I've almost got
Speaker 1: my route pre planned. If there's elk there, then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna climb, you know, at a forty five, I've got
Speaker 1: a saddle up here I want to hit. I want
Speaker 1: to see if these elk a flip flopping from this
Speaker 1: drainage to that drainage, and just by checking fringe areas.
Speaker 1: And when I when I say fringe, what I think is,
Speaker 1: you know, feed, which is meadows, alpine meadows not always
Speaker 1: the biggest giantese meadow where they can feed secluded and comfortably.
Speaker 1: I want to go check that edge. I want to
Speaker 1: go check passes and saddles. I want to go check
Speaker 1: potential bench edges or fringes. I don't necessarily want to
Speaker 1: get right in there. And then I want to go
Speaker 1: check for what I thought maybe potential water sources, if
Speaker 1: there's wallows in the area, if there is like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, drinkable where I think elk have to go
Speaker 1: to drink versus a crick a crick. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: go run. Maybe I will run the bottom, but I
Speaker 1: want to run fringes. I want to run ridgelines, And
Speaker 1: then I want to go check on these other feature
Speaker 1: rich areas. Or feature to feature areas just to see
Speaker 1: if they're elk in there, and then otherwise back and
Speaker 1: you know I'm wasting time there. Um. One of the
Speaker 1: things we both get a bunch of questions is guys
Speaker 1: and gals will go to a trailhead set with plan A.
Speaker 1: They don't have a plan B, C or D. They
Speaker 1: will put all over their eggs in that basket and
Speaker 1: they will I don't want to say waste, but they
Speaker 1: will use up all of their ten days at that
Speaker 1: trailhead and never really be in them. You know, those
Speaker 1: Elko move, and so you want to quickly go there
Speaker 1: if my spot a maybe for some reason. You know,
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of a time on this now,
Speaker 1: so I usually don't guess wrong where I think elk
Speaker 1: are gonna be. But if I do, like I'm loading up,
Speaker 1: like we're not sitting at this spot from more to day.
Speaker 1: We we talked about the be out there at prime
Speaker 1: time if I gotta get up two hours early, But
Speaker 1: that two hours is gonna save me twenty four hours
Speaker 1: or forty eight or seventy two of staying in an
Speaker 1: area that doesn't have all I want to be out
Speaker 1: there listening in the dark. I want to be out
Speaker 1: there and looking for you know, be in their spots
Speaker 1: in primetime. Run these areas, give it maybe a night
Speaker 1: to see if things don't feed out in different locations
Speaker 1: them out of there. I'm going, as you mentioned, we
Speaker 1: did this EA scouting for multiple spots one, two, three, four, A, B, C,
Speaker 1: and D and we're moving to the next spot. Man.
Speaker 1: You man, you almost just preached right out of my course.
Speaker 1: So that's one of the things, one of the you know,
Speaker 1: at the end, our goal is have a hunt plan, right,
Speaker 1: and so my idea of a hunt plan is a
Speaker 1: collection of hunt areas like and hunt areas are exactly
Speaker 1: as you described. It's a place that you could conduct
Speaker 1: your entire hunt within. I never go on anything less
Speaker 1: than a ten day hunt without four to five options.
Speaker 1: Now everybody's like, oh man, that's a lot of work.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, maybe, let's say you go to number
Speaker 1: one and there's elk everywhere and you you never touched two,
Speaker 1: three or four. Who cares? You've got those for next year.
Speaker 1: They're always in your pocket. It's not you're not wasting
Speaker 1: time developing hunt areas. So I see so many guys,
Speaker 1: you know, one another tip, guys, stay as mobile as
Speaker 1: you freaking can live like a gypsy. Don't set up
Speaker 1: the giant wall tens and put the carpet in, build
Speaker 1: the decks. I see just outrageous things. You know, you
Speaker 1: are anchoring yourself to a spot you have automatically, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, you've automatically decreased your odds for success. Now
Speaker 1: you might get lucky from time to time, or you might. Everybody,
Speaker 1: and I every guys tell me, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you ever Yeah, we're gonna we're kind of waiting for
Speaker 1: him to move in. I'm I, you ever heard that
Speaker 1: you're gonna be here any day? I'm like, you're gonna
Speaker 1: You're gonna bet your entire ten days of elk hunting
Speaker 1: that you waited the entire year on that they might
Speaker 1: roll in. Now, if you are super familiar with an area,
Speaker 1: I guys, I always get these, Well this happened to me.
Speaker 1: I got it. But unless you really really really really
Speaker 1: know an area and you and it's and it's happened
Speaker 1: to multiple times, I I certainly wouldn't bet on that
Speaker 1: for sure. I'm not even willing to give up. You know,
Speaker 1: these guys are gonna show up. If you have a
Speaker 1: ten day hunt, I'm not even willing to give four
Speaker 1: to eight hours waiting. Like those elk are alive, bigling running,
Speaker 1: living somewhere in that unit, Like, let's go find him.
Speaker 1: It's just it's the other thing. I mean, not necessarily
Speaker 1: with this podcast about but time is is like the
Speaker 1: number one contributor to once the seasons here. Of course
Speaker 1: you have to find elk, but it's just time and opportunity.
Speaker 1: Like no matter how good a caller you are, no
Speaker 1: matter how good a shot you are. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: the wind does what the wind does. The elk do
Speaker 1: what the elk do. You can't control them. It's gonna
Speaker 1: take multiple times, and and I've got to be in
Speaker 1: the game every day, um, in order for these things
Speaker 1: to pan out. You know. There me and Ryan in
Speaker 1: New Mexico, we were there for eight days, you know,
Speaker 1: and and we got a shot. It was just like well,
Speaker 1: and everybody else was kind of packing up. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna call name names, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it was just that point where it's you know, even
Speaker 1: guys in one of the better units, it just takes
Speaker 1: time for some of this stuff to all come together,
Speaker 1: you know, There's been many times where I might not
Speaker 1: even decide. I'm pretty aggressive, so usually this doesn't happen,
Speaker 1: but there may be an instance where I want to
Speaker 1: watch these elk for a day or two to pattern him.
Speaker 1: If I know nobody's gonna go pressure, and it's to
Speaker 1: my advantage to see what these things do before I
Speaker 1: finally like go blow the spot up. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's all or nothing, And I do that a lot too.
Speaker 1: That's kind of my per now. One of the reasons
Speaker 1: that we're able to do that, guys, is we get
Speaker 1: a lot of days a hunt. And I understand, I'm blessed,
Speaker 1: you're bled, we're all we're blessed to be doing what
Speaker 1: we do, right. But when I was coming from Missouri hunting,
Speaker 1: sometimes I had to get a little more aggressive. I
Speaker 1: didn't have the luxury to wait for days and days
Speaker 1: and days, or I didn't think I did. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Ryan said it. We were talking and that
Speaker 1: they were asking Ryan last night about stalking that olk
Speaker 1: and what he would do. What he in every time
Speaker 1: they kept trying to change the scenario so he would
Speaker 1: change his answer, right, But what did he say every time?
Speaker 1: He said, I would sit there, I'm waiting, waits I
Speaker 1: would wait, wait wait. Patience kills out guys. Most people.
Speaker 1: They act way too quick, they call too frequently, they
Speaker 1: make a move too much, and sometimes guys slow it down.
Speaker 1: They you're right where you need to be. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: almost have to let the elk kill themselves. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: we talked about it yesterday quite a bit, and multiple scenarios.
Speaker 1: Once you decide to call, once you decide to let
Speaker 1: that elk hear you, whether it's breaking brush, you've now
Speaker 1: giving you you at that point, you've given up seclusion
Speaker 1: and and you're no longer fly on the wall. You're
Speaker 1: now an active part of the game versus a very
Speaker 1: very passive part of the game. Whether and that affects me,
Speaker 1: even if I'm gonna go in there and rip a
Speaker 1: bugle like, I do not want him to know why
Speaker 1: I'm on the ground anywhere that I'm in existence until
Speaker 1: I'm ready to a bugle. Um. You know, if we've
Speaker 1: had you know, glunk and bowls running circles around cows,
Speaker 1: and either're doing the same path, they're doing the same loop.
Speaker 1: You know, why would you disrupt him being completely unfocused
Speaker 1: on you, him giving you you know, multiple shots after
Speaker 1: shots to give up your position, you know. And and
Speaker 1: so we're we're on a little tangent there, but um yeah,
Speaker 1: uh so to close here, we're we're winding up. We
Speaker 1: got a lot of a lot of events going on
Speaker 1: here and in places to get But if you could
Speaker 1: give one single tip to help a new elk hunter
Speaker 1: this year, Um, it doesn't even have to be in
Speaker 1: line with finding elk or apps. Um, what would be
Speaker 1: your your bit of advice here, I'm gonna go back
Speaker 1: real quickly. I'm gonna go back to that multiple hunt plans.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing I've talked to so many people. If
Speaker 1: you invest in plan a a lot of guys become
Speaker 1: emotional about it, right, Like they put a lot of work,
Speaker 1: they scouted it. It just looks amazing. They just they
Speaker 1: know there's gonna be a four hund inche bowl that
Speaker 1: just standing in that meadow. When they get that right,
Speaker 1: and then they get there and something people not no
Speaker 1: elk whatever, something derails him and it's psychologically damaging. It
Speaker 1: really is, especially the passion that we have for hunting elk.
Speaker 1: When it when we when this passion gets interrupted, we
Speaker 1: don't deal with it well, right, as elk hunters. Guys,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you right now, UM, take the time work
Speaker 1: out three or four options completely. So when the time comes.
Speaker 1: Here's this scenario when you've got no plan and you're
Speaker 1: driving into town to get sales service, to download some
Speaker 1: maps and try to figure out what you're gonna do.
Speaker 1: You're at a low of low. Right, we've all always
Speaker 1: I've done it, I'll met it. But when you when
Speaker 1: you say you hike in, like you said, you spent
Speaker 1: twenty four hours and nothing turns up, and you're like,
Speaker 1: but you know that you you've got a complete mapped
Speaker 1: out plan. B make a move. You know how long
Speaker 1: it's gonna take you to drive there. You know how
Speaker 1: long it's gonna take you to hike into camp. You say,
Speaker 1: if I leave right now, I can be there. I
Speaker 1: can be at camp by three, I can even hunt
Speaker 1: the evening. Your spirit as lifted right then you're ready
Speaker 1: to move. But if you don't have in your maps
Speaker 1: already downloa, everything is prepped, all your way points, all
Speaker 1: your finding features, all your roots, your glass and spots,
Speaker 1: everything is pre done, right, pre done. You are at
Speaker 1: a comfort level. That is so I can't explain it's
Speaker 1: almost euphoric that you're almost ready to move to plan too.
Speaker 1: But when you don't know what you're gonna do, you're
Speaker 1: very resistant to move. I'm gonna give it one more day, right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait. They're gonna they're gonna be here any day,
Speaker 1: like we just said, and you'll start falling into those tracks.
Speaker 1: And it's it's a mental compounding trap. Guys. There's so
Speaker 1: many things that can go wrong without cunning. We have
Speaker 1: to take control of the things that we can control.
Speaker 1: And guys, hunt planning, that's stupid. If you do not
Speaker 1: have your hunt planned together, that's just that's laziness, in
Speaker 1: my opinion. You can't control where they are are gonna be.
Speaker 1: You might be able to can't control what people are
Speaker 1: gonna do. You can't control the masses, where, what the
Speaker 1: trailer e they're gonna show up, But you can't control
Speaker 1: what you're going to do and how you're going to
Speaker 1: do it. And if you have a systematical approach to
Speaker 1: start working through, you stay mobile, you stay fluid, you
Speaker 1: can move quickly from one to the other, and you've
Speaker 1: got progression. You know. One of the things I'll tell you,
Speaker 1: if you're hunting with a buddy. One other tip that
Speaker 1: I this has just proved out to be so good
Speaker 1: to me too, is you know, the last thing that
Speaker 1: if I would tell somebody to do is when you
Speaker 1: look at planning your like an assault into an area,
Speaker 1: try to do I call it progressive hunting, where you
Speaker 1: can park a rig at one spot and hunt to
Speaker 1: that rig because when you go in and out on
Speaker 1: the same trail, you're you're I'm not saying it's not productive,
Speaker 1: but you're seeing the same territory and a lot of guys.
Speaker 1: It's just it's a little more work to plan that out. Now,
Speaker 1: sum areas just don't work out like that, right, the
Speaker 1: trails don't connect riders too far or whatever. But one
Speaker 1: of my most successful tactics with my llamas is to
Speaker 1: start a trail at a and do like I do,
Speaker 1: like thirty forty miles through, but I have rigs it
Speaker 1: both in. If I only make it two miles in,
Speaker 1: there's everywhere, great, I go back to that rig. If
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle, I just try to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: which way is the roughness? Yeah? And you know, guys,
Speaker 1: it's it's incredibly productive because you're seeing new country and
Speaker 1: allows you to work through a progression. You might not
Speaker 1: get elk here here here, but sometimes hiking in five
Speaker 1: miles and coming out five miles, you know, it takes
Speaker 1: up a lot of time to do it waiting and
Speaker 1: your your own So you've now hiked ten miles, right,
Speaker 1: but you've only got to see five miles from the country,
Speaker 1: and you I feel like it's a deadhead on the
Speaker 1: five miles back because you've already wrote that country off
Speaker 1: as we're walking through it. And so now, guys, don't
Speaker 1: get me where. You can't do that most of the time,
Speaker 1: and if you're solo, that may not work as well.
Speaker 1: But if you're hunting in the group and you've got
Speaker 1: multiple vehicles, guys, don't forget that strategy. It's a good one.
Speaker 1: And you know, kind of the piggyback and and kind
Speaker 1: of close the loop on this hump planning. I agree
Speaker 1: hunt plan number one. Know what you're going to do
Speaker 1: if spot one, two, three, and four don't pan out
Speaker 1: where you're going. But the other part is, as he
Speaker 1: had mentioned, you show up and there's you know, trees
Speaker 1: all over the trail. You had this pretty picture in
Speaker 1: your mind, you're gonna hike. It's gonna take you two
Speaker 1: point three four you know, three or four hours to
Speaker 1: hike the five miles. This is what we're gonna set
Speaker 1: up your tent. And um, it just it's a psychology issue.
Speaker 1: You know you instantly fall apart. But um to piggyback
Speaker 1: on that is, don't give up because that drive to
Speaker 1: town you're instantly thinking about, is this hunt already over?
Speaker 1: Like it's very easy unless you're just mentally prepared to
Speaker 1: to to keep fighting through it. Um, don't give up
Speaker 1: like I would. I would challenge you to just spend
Speaker 1: a day on the mountain and enjoy it, Like, don't hunt,
Speaker 1: just hang out, listen, drive the road system, glass and
Speaker 1: just give yourself a day. Because time is is. Ultimately
Speaker 1: we can talk about finding elk, we can talk about
Speaker 1: being the best bowshot, the best color. Um, Ultimately you
Speaker 1: have to keep punching that time clock. And that's days
Speaker 1: in the field and more importantly, days on elk, not
Speaker 1: in your truck, not in your especially not at home
Speaker 1: right when you've given up and take that drift home.
Speaker 1: Like my wife would kill me if you hear me
Speaker 1: you say this, But I would rather have a ten
Speaker 1: day vacation, hanging out on the road in Elk country
Speaker 1: where I can physically then to be home. Um Like,
Speaker 1: at that point, I've now lost my ability to kill anything.
Speaker 1: We had to, you know, we had the cast asked
Speaker 1: us that question as we never hunted out right, he's
Speaker 1: here at this summent. He goes, what's the one thing
Speaker 1: I could do? What's the one thing I could do?
Speaker 1: While there's so many we could have said, But what
Speaker 1: did we say? Just stay in the game, get out
Speaker 1: there at first, like, get out of stay until dark,
Speaker 1: you know, move around. I mean, guys, good things happen
Speaker 1: if you put yourself in play. If you're in your
Speaker 1: truck and you're driving around or you're at home, you're
Speaker 1: certainly not going to kill an alp. And I can't
Speaker 1: tell you know elk cutting. I say this about bear
Speaker 1: hunting as well, But it's boredom and one percent freaking
Speaker 1: crazy adrenaline. Right, you work for that one percent. You
Speaker 1: never know when that one percent is gonna happen. It
Speaker 1: can happen at any moment. I've been in areas I
Speaker 1: haven't seen any sign, No, well haven't heard it, And
Speaker 1: all of a sudden there's a giant bulls screaming in
Speaker 1: front of me or just out of nowhere. Now, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying it happens all the time, but guys, you
Speaker 1: just gotta stay in the game, don't get discouraged, don't
Speaker 1: give up any The way not to get discouraged is
Speaker 1: by planning. The more planning you have, the better. And
Speaker 1: I guess if we got time, I'll say one more, guys,
Speaker 1: don't get out of your capabilities. I have an entire
Speaker 1: module in my course dedicated to realities and limitations, and
Speaker 1: the reason I see so many guys eight nine miles
Speaker 1: in the background try and I'm like, what are you
Speaker 1: guys gonna do if you're killing out well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, guys, if you go beyond your capability, you're
Speaker 1: gonna wear yourself down. You're gonna limit the days you're
Speaker 1: gonna be able to hunt. You can kill Elk one
Speaker 1: or two miles on the road, right, if that's your limit,
Speaker 1: work a plan that works with your capabilities. If you're
Speaker 1: out of shape, who cares. That doesn't mean you can't
Speaker 1: hunt Elk. It just means you gotta work maybe a
Speaker 1: little more strategic, maybe cross a creek that nobody's willing
Speaker 1: to cross. Maybe you're gonna do somethings like that, but
Speaker 1: work a plan that works in your bill. Don't don't
Speaker 1: try to be Ryan Lambers if you're not Ryan Lamber's right,
Speaker 1: And because you're gonna get over your head and you're
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna be negative and you're gonna be it's
Speaker 1: gonna wear you down and you're gonna quit hunting. Yeah, early,
Speaker 1: really early, God forbid you kill an elk or something
Speaker 1: back there and then really having a big issue on
Speaker 1: your hands to stay in your ability. You owe it
Speaker 1: to the elk, right, It's not only about I mean
Speaker 1: I feel like I owe it to the elk to
Speaker 1: get all that meat out. And it takes a while
Speaker 1: for new hunters to build that understanding and like mental capacity,
Speaker 1: like I think some of us have moved, Like I
Speaker 1: can kill an milk anywhere, and I'll devise a plan
Speaker 1: like I need to get it to a creek, Like
Speaker 1: I will figure out a way to take care of
Speaker 1: this elk. But I think until you've did it enough
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, it's it's it's just as much of
Speaker 1: of a mental game. And I think as you hit
Speaker 1: the nail on the head by planning, you're at least
Speaker 1: taking some of that mental pressure off of yourself not
Speaker 1: to give up on the hunt. So you're not gonna
Speaker 1: let yourself. Guys, when you're hunting, you're dehydrated, you're stressed,
Speaker 1: your wife's texting in your in reach. When you're gonna
Speaker 1: come home, you got all these they got work, you
Speaker 1: know you're thinking about. You have so many things on
Speaker 1: your mind. The more you can take the decisions out
Speaker 1: of your the equation when you're out cutting, I make
Speaker 1: when I go elk cutting, by the time I get
Speaker 1: to the trailhead right, my decisions are made. I know
Speaker 1: where I'm going pretty much every day until something happens. Now,
Speaker 1: I'll make modifications, but I've got a systematic strategy that
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work through. And when you're laying in your
Speaker 1: tent and you you haven't seen anything yet, when and
Speaker 1: you pull out that hunt plane, you're looking at it,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I forgot about this little spot that
Speaker 1: I had. I'm gonna go there tomorrow, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're an elk. But if you don't have it,
Speaker 1: you're gonna make bad decisions. You're gonna give up while
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're going to You're going to be
Speaker 1: more likely to. Well, I really appreciate having you on
Speaker 1: today market we get back to some of the other um,
Speaker 1: you know, classes and stuff going on. Really appreciate. Can
Speaker 1: you tell everybody how to find out a little bit more,
Speaker 1: how to get ahold of you, how to find out
Speaker 1: more about Treeline Pursuits, Treeline Academy, and uh, I've got
Speaker 1: to sit on you know, some of mark stuff both
Speaker 1: Elk Shape Now and at Western Hunting Summit. Um a
Speaker 1: wealth of information. You know. I think it's we've got
Speaker 1: to talk here for a little over half hour, but
Speaker 1: you've got forty hours plus of material. Um you dive
Speaker 1: and then he dives way deeper into some of this
Speaker 1: stuff on you know features specifically how to use some
Speaker 1: of the apps to find that. Let everybody know how
Speaker 1: to find you, how to check check out more of that.
Speaker 1: So start with you can I mean on Instagram, I
Speaker 1: I really do. I try to do a pretty good
Speaker 1: job of keeping my content up and what's going on.
Speaker 1: Some of the film Al was in Bear Hunts and
Speaker 1: all the things we've been doing, but tree Line pursued
Speaker 1: tree Line Underscore pursues his Instagram and then tree Line
Speaker 1: Pursuits dot Com is kind of my my landing page
Speaker 1: for a lot of my you know, d hy dehydrat
Speaker 1: meals recipes and articles and blah blah blah. But tree
Speaker 1: Line Academy dot net is where the course sets. You
Speaker 1: can get to it through tree Line Pursuits dot com
Speaker 1: if you just remember that. But you know the main
Speaker 1: thing it Just check out my Instagram page. I've got
Speaker 1: linked tree with all the access to all these things.
Speaker 1: So we're really appreciate once again having you Mark take
Speaker 1: care of um great information. And like I say, I
Speaker 1: would bet you know what I've heard Mark say of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's the exact same stuff I use. I'm just not
Speaker 1: is organized as him, but we're looking for the same
Speaker 1: exact things. You just made sure to save everything a
Speaker 1: little better and tidy it up. You already going to
Speaker 1: the city. You're already got these places work down, so
Speaker 1: you've already done the work. So alright, thanks for having
Speaker 1: Thanks m