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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today's

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Speaker 1: guest is the owner and founder of Freeland Pursuit and

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Speaker 1: Treeline Academy. We've all growing up, you know, figured out

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Speaker 1: how to use Google Earth, We figured out how to

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Speaker 1: use you know, on x Go, Hunt base Map, whatever

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Speaker 1: it may be. But Mark may have did the best job,

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Speaker 1: maybe the only one that's put all this together in

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Speaker 1: a very easy to understand, comprehensive roadmap to how to

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Speaker 1: use the tools right, how to use them effectively, what

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Speaker 1: you should be looking for. And so today we're going

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Speaker 1: to dive into how to use the program to find stuff.

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Speaker 1: We're probably gonna dive into the nuts and bolts of

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Speaker 1: it and how to find elf. That's what everybody wants

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Speaker 1: to skip to and and and kind of get the

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Speaker 1: short track too. So welcome to the show. Mark, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me. Jason as good. So Mark and I

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Speaker 1: are here at the Hunting Summit. It's going good. Um.

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Speaker 1: I've got to hear Mark present. And what I love

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Speaker 1: about Mark is his ability to use all of the programs,

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Speaker 1: not just you know, the companies that he works with.

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Speaker 1: He knows the programs so well in and out. He

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Speaker 1: will tell you you know what on X is best

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Speaker 1: for you know, you've talked about like roads to the trailheads.

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Speaker 1: You know some of these things you've talked about, like

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Speaker 1: Guya is better because of the seven and a half

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Speaker 1: old school topo. Um, so we want to dive into

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Speaker 1: you know, finding elk. How do you use Google Earth

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Speaker 1: on X, Go Hunt Gaya, all of these programs, all

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Speaker 1: of this technology. We have to make sure that whether

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Speaker 1: you're coming out you know, from East on your first

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Speaker 1: elk hunt ever, whether you're an experienced Western hunter just

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Speaker 1: want to try a new spot, I want to to

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Speaker 1: give you some of these tools to make sure when

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Speaker 1: you show up that you've you've did your research. You

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Speaker 1: have spots A, B, C, D and E all the

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Speaker 1: way to Zee if you need them. You have what

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Speaker 1: what I would consider a hunt plan. But you've never

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Speaker 1: had to, you know, leave your computer desk. So Jason

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Speaker 1: thinks it's it's been a really good get to meet

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Speaker 1: you over the last couple of years too. And so

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Speaker 1: you know you said something about all these tools, and

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Speaker 1: just before we get started, you know you don't have

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Speaker 1: to use all the tools, right. Um, just like when

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Speaker 1: you call ELK, you can make one sound if you

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Speaker 1: just make a cow call every now and then it'll

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Speaker 1: work for you, right, But that's not the way you

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Speaker 1: do it right. You use multiple versions, multiple scenarios, multiple setups,

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Speaker 1: different kinds of tactics and guys. I think when it

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Speaker 1: comes to East scouting and going about finding elk, at

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Speaker 1: least digitally, you've got to think that same way if

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Speaker 1: you become tunnel visioned, or I call it like yesterday

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Speaker 1: in the in the in the presentation I mentioned if

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Speaker 1: you want to be a one dimensional elk hunter, you

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Speaker 1: can be a one dimensional, But if you want to

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Speaker 1: be a multidimensional and be willing to learn some new

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Speaker 1: things and use the right tool for the right job,

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Speaker 1: I want to be really clear about that. I am

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Speaker 1: pro all the apps. I mean, I I love on X,

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Speaker 1: you know, I love go Hunt, I love Guy, I

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Speaker 1: love even like base Map for lots of things. But

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Speaker 1: it's like when you go to work on your car, Jason,

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Speaker 1: would you only use your screwdriver? No you would not,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have to use everything. I tell everyone.

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh, man, I don't know about buying all

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Speaker 1: these apps, and I said, absolutely not. But what I

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Speaker 1: always almost always recommend is I always I never go

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Speaker 1: into the field without running two apps, so that I

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Speaker 1: have a primary and a backup, so that I get

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Speaker 1: a little different tope over you, Like you mentioned guy,

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Speaker 1: I'm get a little different Like if I get a

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Speaker 1: snow covered aerial photo layer, then the other app is

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Speaker 1: more likely to not have the air the snow because

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Speaker 1: they get their aerial photos from different sources. So that's

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Speaker 1: just you know, to kind of kick things off. I

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Speaker 1: think that one A lot of people misunderstand me and

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Speaker 1: the fact that you know, I'm pro one apper I'm

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Speaker 1: really negative about I'm not. I'm really focusing on what

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Speaker 1: each app excels at and I use it specifically for

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Speaker 1: what it's good at. But to do that, you have

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Speaker 1: to get organized. You have to get a little organized,

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Speaker 1: You have to spend a little time learning the tools,

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Speaker 1: and you have to get beyond your comfort zone. People

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Speaker 1: get comfortable, you know, and they start using and they

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Speaker 1: just like you're talking about we're talking about ELK spots earlier.

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Speaker 1: You know the spot and now you don't even need

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Speaker 1: to turn on your app and blah bla. You know

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Speaker 1: that's fine, but the day you moved to another one, um,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to you might have to. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of the way it works for me,

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Speaker 1: and the way I kind of teach it is I

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Speaker 1: I try to teach a multi pronged, multidimensional approach to

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Speaker 1: finding out. Yeah, yeah, good And and you're getting to

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Speaker 1: sit on this course. I would say me and Mark

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Speaker 1: probably are in line of time what we're looking for

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Speaker 1: to what we're looking for to find ELK. And in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, you only get so many days in September

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Speaker 1: if we're if we're trying to you know, you can

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Speaker 1: ELK October November, but specifically trying to both hunt ELK

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Speaker 1: get to where they want to be during that rut.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to waste even a day or two

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Speaker 1: trying to find ELK. I need to show up at

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Speaker 1: a trailhead being ELK because that starts that game for us. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping everybody can can get some great information. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna jump into some user questions right off the about.

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Speaker 1: If you have your own question, UM either hit us

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Speaker 1: up on social, you can email ct D at phelps

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Speaker 1: Game Calls dot com. UM send us your own questions.

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Speaker 1: So these questions actually stemmed from some of the users

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Speaker 1: and from sitting in the class yesterday. But my first

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Speaker 1: the first question to you, Mark is if you can

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Speaker 1: only pick one elk feature. So we're when we're talking features,

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Speaker 1: we're talking wallows, benches, burns. I don't know if we

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Speaker 1: can necessarily calculator, you know, count fringes because they're in

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Speaker 1: all of these areas. What would be the number one feature?

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Speaker 1: Like if you can only hone in on one and say,

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Speaker 1: and we all know, we were all gonna agree combinations

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Speaker 1: of these features is the most important. But if you

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Speaker 1: could hone in on one, what would you say you

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Speaker 1: would look for in an area Before I answer that,

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Speaker 1: because I get asked that a lot, and I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to be careful about what I say here

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Speaker 1: because one of the biggest things I teach in the

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Speaker 1: class was exactly what I just said. If you want

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Speaker 1: to be a one dimensional Elk hunner, you could expect

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Speaker 1: one dimensional success, and one dimensional success for Western d

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Speaker 1: i Y public Land now is about ten percent. If

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Speaker 1: you want to be a ten percent elk Kunda, then

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Speaker 1: you just keep acting like a tempers at elk hunter.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to features, like you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm setting in there, what I like to do. I

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Speaker 1: call it stacking the odds, And basically what I mean

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Speaker 1: by stacking the odds, I mean stacking these features. Right.

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Speaker 1: But there are some of my favorites. So, like I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: I saved the best for last yesterday and my presentation.

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Speaker 1: I like benches um and most areas and in most states.

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Speaker 1: It kind of applies across the board. Like water obviously

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Speaker 1: is really important in some areas and not so important

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Speaker 1: in others. But benches um and the right bench location,

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Speaker 1: the right bench set up, the right bench orientation, the asthma,

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Speaker 1: the facing direction of the bench, the timber densities, those

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Speaker 1: are all pretty consistent I found with all the places

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Speaker 1: I'm hunted elk. And one of the reasons I like

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Speaker 1: benches and to have the way I evaluate benches is

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Speaker 1: elk has been a lot of their time during the

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Speaker 1: day in that resting period. Right. So, if you're a

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Speaker 1: caller and you love calling out like I do, you uh,

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Speaker 1: and of course you do, benches need to be on

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Speaker 1: the top of your list because you need even if

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Speaker 1: you don't approach the bench, you're gonna try to put yourself.

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Speaker 1: Like what we talked yesterday, in that transitional zone between

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Speaker 1: the metal feeding are that you tried to identify and

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Speaker 1: maybe a water source and maybe those benches and try

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Speaker 1: to triangulate what they're gonna do. And so benches, I

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Speaker 1: would say, is my number one. I mean, we've we've

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Speaker 1: hunted enough country, we've walked enough. You'll be on a

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Speaker 1: steep slope, you know, steep up slope, hit that bench,

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Speaker 1: steep up and and why elk will bed anywhere. I've

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Speaker 1: seen them bed on slopes. They'll dig out the upside

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Speaker 1: of a tree and they'll figure out a way to bed.

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Speaker 1: But I would say the majority of the time, over

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Speaker 1: ninety percent of the the time, those elk are gonna want

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Speaker 1: to get to that bench. Um, they've got good shade,

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Speaker 1: they've got better bedding area, they've got you know, for

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Speaker 1: for their natural defenses. As we mentioned the way the

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Speaker 1: tips the wind typically works in these flat areas, they

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Speaker 1: can lay on that that downhill edge, um, look for

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Speaker 1: any danger. So it just those benches seem to attract

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Speaker 1: you know, they whether it's wind, a combination of safety, um,

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Speaker 1: more comfortable for the herd to land. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would and correctly what you think in my observations of

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Speaker 1: my I've been hunting out for thirty three years now

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Speaker 1: and multiple states a year, so I'm an adventurer, guys.

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Speaker 1: I I know I would probably have better success if

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Speaker 1: I went back and really hunted some of the amazing

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Speaker 1: places I've been, right, But I rarely, rarely do because

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Speaker 1: I'm always the grass is greener for me, you know,

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Speaker 1: And and it's to my detriment much, but I take

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Speaker 1: my lomas. I'm in new places every year all the time.

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Speaker 1: So if I've gotten good at East scouting, it's probably

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Speaker 1: because out of necessity, because when you hunt three to

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Speaker 1: four states a year, you can't do boots on the ground,

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Speaker 1: and if you're changing spots every year in those states,

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Speaker 1: you got to get good at this or you're not

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Speaker 1: going to find them any elk. Right, So bench is

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Speaker 1: one thing I've noticed is it's a real um You've

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Speaker 1: got a real good chance if you can find these

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Speaker 1: prime bench spots. They're very historical, like you'll find years

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Speaker 1: and years of rubs on the right like and when

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Speaker 1: you find old new intermediate rubs, you know you're in

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Speaker 1: the mecca because year after year they've used they've just

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Speaker 1: these big bulls don't get big by just running around

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Speaker 1: laying in new spots all the time. They have picked

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Speaker 1: these bench areas very strategically right, and as long as

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Speaker 1: the pressure remains consistent or what they're used to dealing with,

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Speaker 1: you can expect to find them there a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: do you agree? I mean? And and just just to

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Speaker 1: make sure everybody understands what we're talking about benches. UM,

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Speaker 1: Let's say you have a two thousand feet you know

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Speaker 1: ridge from the crick bottom to the top. We're not

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Speaker 1: talking about flat top ridges. We're not talking about flat

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Speaker 1: levels in the creek. We're talking about in And I

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Speaker 1: would prefer and I know marks the same way cause

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Speaker 1: I sat through your course. I want that bench to

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Speaker 1: be on Ideally, my ideal benches on a north slope

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Speaker 1: or north northwest northeast. It's over halfway up, and it's

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Speaker 1: got pretty decent timber on it, um if possible. And

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Speaker 1: and the reason I feel is that they can easily

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Speaker 1: jump over to the south slope to feed if they

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Speaker 1: need be, if that's where their food's at. Um. It

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Speaker 1: keeps them cool, cool throughout the day everywhere that we

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Speaker 1: get the elk hunt in the northern hemisphere. Um. And

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Speaker 1: and it's just that's my ideal bench. And and when

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Speaker 1: I show up to an area, if i've if I've

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Speaker 1: looked at it, that's one of the first spots I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go hit, just to make sure they're elk in

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Speaker 1: the area. I can prove it through that. Now, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to go in steak up their bedding area,

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Speaker 1: blow it up right off the bat, but you want

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Speaker 1: to go investigate around it, make sure there's tracks going

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Speaker 1: in and out of it. See see what's around you know,

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Speaker 1: so on benches too, you know you we mentioned all

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Speaker 1: these tools. So because he's it's really important to understand

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Speaker 1: that all of the hunting apps. And we're not gonna talk.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not gonna get into anyone particular. I'm

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Speaker 1: just because they're all. They're all I mean to me,

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Speaker 1: they're just their tools of the trade. But all topographic

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Speaker 1: maps are not created equal, right. Some are more relaxed,

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Speaker 1: some are more summarized, some are more the lines are

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Speaker 1: more smoothed out. So when it comes to breaking down benches, now,

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Speaker 1: some of these what I call modified or adjusted topography maps. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're perfect for a lot of things, right, But when

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Speaker 1: it comes to finding benches, particularly, I like to look

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Speaker 1: at the seven point five minute USGS tobomap with the

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Speaker 1: finest index contours and the finest contra lines I can find,

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Speaker 1: because some of these elks, like you said, they'll kick

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Speaker 1: out of bed. Everybody's always looking at that giant mega bench,

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Speaker 1: you know, on that Well, if you see a giant

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Speaker 1: mega bench, so has a lot of other hunters when

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Speaker 1: they're doing their east gutting. So I now I don't

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying I won't go to those places, but

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Speaker 1: I'm also looking for these supplemental micro benches that are

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Speaker 1: close to other features. Maybe they got a water, maybe

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Speaker 1: they gotta look like they've got a drainage run through them,

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Speaker 1: or maybe one of my we talked about this in

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Speaker 1: the course in the President. One of my favorites is

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Speaker 1: when benes are staircase like you've got a bench and

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Speaker 1: then it's a little bit of a steep and then

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Speaker 1: another bench and another steep, and if you have to

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Speaker 1: have any kind of drainage in there, that even adds

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Speaker 1: more field to the fire. And like you said, if

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Speaker 1: that bench is halfway to three quarters the way up

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Speaker 1: the top, that's even better. So basically what we're saying

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Speaker 1: here is a bene is not always a bench. I

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Speaker 1: like to find benes that stack some of these odd

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Speaker 1: multipliers within the bench um identification, like the location of

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Speaker 1: the bench, the orientation of the bench of staircases, or

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Speaker 1: the chain of it. How what the relationship is to

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Speaker 1: an edge habitat or a burn or a beetle kill

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Speaker 1: or a feeding area. So what we were seeing earlier

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Speaker 1: guys is elk tend. In my opinion, they tend to

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Speaker 1: migrate to these benches historically, even when the food sources

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Speaker 1: may be adjusting, Like if they're feeding in meadows and

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Speaker 1: it starts to turn dry and they start feeding in

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Speaker 1: more timber more, they may still be using those same

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Speaker 1: bench areas, but they're hitting different feedings um features, right,

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Speaker 1: traveling a little farther, Yeah, they're traveling a little farther,

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Speaker 1: even water. They'll make some adjustments. But I found those

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Speaker 1: benches are really consistent. They're not they're like, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're you gotta kiss a lot of frogs to define

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Speaker 1: those mecca be those uh just mecca um benches. Because

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Speaker 1: and it's so funny to me, like you'll see one

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Speaker 1: on the map that just looks like there should be

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Speaker 1: like a thousand elk there, and you'll go there and

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Speaker 1: and it's just whatever. You know, there's not much there.

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Speaker 1: You'll go to one that just looks mediocre and they'll

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Speaker 1: be a elk can't even that bench, right, So it's

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Speaker 1: elk I always. Elk are where they want to be, guys,

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Speaker 1: you find them. Yeah, And but there are some things

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Speaker 1: that you can do to increase the odds of running

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Speaker 1: into them. And that's really what what I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: help people with is that trying to help you learn

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Speaker 1: some things that will help you turn the tables and

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Speaker 1: stack some of these odds in your favor. That's really

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Speaker 1: the goal for sure. Well, thanks thanks for taking that question.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna jump into now my own question, um for Mark.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, if you have your own questions, feel free

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Speaker 1: to submit them CTD at Phelps Game Calls dot com. Um,

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Speaker 1: we we have another question, but it's actually gonna kind

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Speaker 1: of get rolled up in in some of my questions,

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna jump forward and get into the discussion.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to rewind those

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Speaker 1: thirty three years of elk hunting. Here. If you were

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Speaker 1: a brand new elk hunter, you decided this year I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go l hunting. You have no idea where they live. Besides,

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Speaker 1: you've seen some off the county highway, you know, our

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Speaker 1: county road. What would you recommend to two people too?

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Speaker 1: If you're brand new l hunter? Where do you start?

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Speaker 1: How do you how do you start to build this

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Speaker 1: picture of what elk like where you're gonna find him

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Speaker 1: in the mountains, you know, and I'm talking d I

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Speaker 1: Y public land, you know OTC type stuff like where

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Speaker 1: are these elk? You know? Are they seeking refuge? Are

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Speaker 1: they seeking food? You know? You we we've got you know,

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Speaker 1: ten to fifteen features as el hunters look for that

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Speaker 1: that and then some of them have higher multipliers. Um,

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Speaker 1: what would you focus in on your you're looking at

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Speaker 1: a new unit, like, how do you start your approach

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Speaker 1: to find it? That's a great question because I did

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Speaker 1: the prestation on elk fighting features, because I remember I

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Speaker 1: told you that I monitor some of the progress in

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Speaker 1: my course, and these guys are just jumping to the

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Speaker 1: LK finding and they're forgetting about the core hunt area identification.

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Speaker 1: They're forgetting about the zones of pressure, they're forgetting about

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Speaker 1: the hunt parameters. So there's all these things that I

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Speaker 1: have kind of adopted into my plan before I ever

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Speaker 1: start looking for a bench. Let's just say one of

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Speaker 1: the features. There's so many things that has to happen. Guys,

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Speaker 1: Just because there's a bench on the side of the

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Speaker 1: mountain that looks good and it's next to a fire

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Speaker 1: does not mean there's gonna be out there. There could be.

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Speaker 1: So how I start is I spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time in the research phase. Guys. I use all the

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Speaker 1: tools available. I don't become one dimensional in the research phase,

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Speaker 1: just like I don't become one dimensionally in the app phase.

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Speaker 1: I use all the available tools. So what I want

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Speaker 1: to do is, let's say we're gonna hunt Montana. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we've decided that Montana is the place we want to go.

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Speaker 1: We want to figure out where in Montana we're gonna go.

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Speaker 1: I gotta start looking at these at these units and

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Speaker 1: seeing one, what is the elk population in those units? Now, Guys,

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Speaker 1: I don't get so caught up in this. Well, they're

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Speaker 1: these you got you can kill a three thirty to

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Speaker 1: three sixty bull in this unit. Now there's some truth

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Speaker 1: to that. Maybe the guys, the key is getting in

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Speaker 1: numbers of ELK for most hunters, right, the select few

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Speaker 1: guys that are looking for the for that gemstone. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, but I'm looking for very large numbers of ELK.

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Speaker 1: So I'm looking at migration data. I'm looking at I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you another one that in a second here. But

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Speaker 1: so I'm looking at statistics. Obviously I even go to

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Speaker 1: this guy. I know this is work, but this is

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Speaker 1: how I do it. So I download the last three

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Speaker 1: years of statistics in Montana and I put them in

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Speaker 1: a spreadsheet of all the units, or even all the units,

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Speaker 1: whatever units your interests, and I want to run averages, right,

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Speaker 1: because you've got to remember, most of these states do

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Speaker 1: not have well I shouldn't say most, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of states do not have mandatory surveys. They do some

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Speaker 1: random stuff, right, So they might call you one year,

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Speaker 1: they might not call you again for five years, and

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Speaker 1: I just think they do a poor job. I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna call him out, especially Montana. So you can't look

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Speaker 1: at those stats and really make predictable calculations on one year. Now,

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Speaker 1: I do think with the random surveys, if you did

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Speaker 1: an average. So the first thing I like to do

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Speaker 1: is I like to prepare my own little spreadsheet. The

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Speaker 1: stats are all available if they're PDF. Take the time

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Speaker 1: to type of man, guys, it's money or it's time

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Speaker 1: well spent. Breakdown some units. So I'm looking for elk populations,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for total hunters. I'm looking for the percentage

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Speaker 1: of six point bull killed, not size, just a percentage

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Speaker 1: of six point bulls killed, if it's available. But mainly

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Speaker 1: what I'm looking at is bull of cow ratio. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for significant numbers of bulls of cow ratio. And

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Speaker 1: then I start kind of sorting out those units, right,

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Speaker 1: and I'll pick a few and kind of zero in

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Speaker 1: on them, and then I'll start google Earth flying guys.

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Speaker 1: I do not start looking for elk finding features right

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Speaker 1: off the bat. That's kind of all. It's not the

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Speaker 1: last step, but it's down the road, right. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: one of the things I like to do is not

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Speaker 1: only look at at those elk numbers and then divide

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Speaker 1: it by like hunter days in that unit, because I

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Speaker 1: want to not only be because there might be a

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Speaker 1: great unit, but it may have half the hunters in Montanas, right,

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Speaker 1: And so one of the other tips we do is

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Speaker 1: then go find that hunter days and then divide, you know,

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Speaker 1: the success rate or to buy and come up with

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Speaker 1: some sort of a number or an output, like all

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Speaker 1: right now, these units are sorted by ELK numbers, bold

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Speaker 1: cal ratio numbers. But then how few hunters right there?

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Speaker 1: And I've always figured all hunters lie the same. So

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Speaker 1: if we're at least using the averages and everybody lying

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Speaker 1: that at least the data we've got the best we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get, it's what you're gonna get. So then I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you. I don't say this very often, but guys,

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Speaker 1: every state that has ELK produces an ELK management report,

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Speaker 1: and they can be up to two pages long. Guys,

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Speaker 1: they're not designed for hunters, but there is so much

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Speaker 1: information and then those like oh, the herd here is

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Speaker 1: doing this, and the herd here is doing that, and

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Speaker 1: then migration is getting bigger here and it is getting

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Speaker 1: smaller here. Those things just can if you do the

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Speaker 1: stats and then you read through those. It's a quick

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Speaker 1: Google search for Montana ELK management report, our ELK management

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Speaker 1: study or objectives and all the things will start coming up.

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Speaker 1: But you take the time to read through that report,

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Speaker 1: you will be amazed with the historical knowledge that you

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Speaker 1: just implanting your to help guide you in the process.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of do that, and then I then

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Speaker 1: I read these reports, I look at objectives kind of

402
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,199
Speaker 1: make you know, I want to hunt areas that have

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Speaker 1: good huntable populations about. So then what I'm going to do.

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Speaker 1: Really one of the most important things I think is

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Speaker 1: EA scouting is and I don't talk about this a lot,

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Speaker 1: and I should because it's it's really a big part

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00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 1: of the course. But the zones of pressure. Now people

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Speaker 1: get confused by that. They're thinking, oh, you're trying to

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Speaker 1: get away from hunters, You're trying to get far in. Well,

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Speaker 1: I do sometimes, but really, what I'm saying, guys, you

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Speaker 1: have to understand where the hunters are going to park,

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Speaker 1: where they're gonna access, what roads are going to use.

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Speaker 1: And if you start marking all that, and I got

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Speaker 1: a whole system, we won't really get in that. But

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Speaker 1: I had this whole system to help you basically diagram

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Speaker 1: out this hunting pressure. If you take time to do that,

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Speaker 1: you'll be just amazed again at what will jump out it.

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Speaker 1: You'll be like, oh, look at this spot right here.

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Speaker 1: So I get guys from Oregon calling me all the

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Speaker 1: time about Oregon and Washington. Man, we got roads everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I can't really get far from this thing, and you

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Speaker 1: always talk about packing in. I'm telling you right now,

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Speaker 1: I think it's easier to find ELK in high pressure

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Speaker 1: areas than it is in low pressure areas. And everybody's like,

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Speaker 1: you're out of your mind. Here's why. Think about it

426
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: in a high pressure area with a lot of roads,

427
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,959
Speaker 1: because there's if you start doing the zones of pressure,

428
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: there's only a few places they can get away right

429
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: to get a little seclusion. If you look, if you

430
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 1: march into them, I'm just going to the middle of Mattcalf.

431
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: We are, Bob Marshall. Those help can be anywhere, right.

432
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: They haven't seen a person, so they haven't seen a person.

433
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 1: Thing go anywhere they want. There's nothing moving around. So

434
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 1: in some ways, guys, if it's done right and you

435
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: take the time to analyze it, finding ELK in high

436
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: pressure areas is almost easier than low pressure areas. UM

437
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 1: I prefer to hunt low pressure areas because I like

438
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: to call ELK. And one of the problems with the

439
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: high pressure they get you get calling issues right. So

440
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 1: but that's really the only reason I don't like people.

441
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 1: I'm kind of anti social, like lampers, and I like

442
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 1: to call elk that haven't been called to a lot.

443
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just because I'm not a very good caller,

444
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: and it's way I don't know even for I mean,

445
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 1: it's way easier to call a bull and that's uh

446
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: not been educated and not been messed with. But as

447
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: far as finding elk, right, guys, they're always frustrated with

448
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 1: Oregon and New Mexico and watching some of these dates.

449
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: Have a lot of road networks and the stuff. Guys

450
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: use it to your vantage, but you've got to approach

451
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 1: it systematically. I'm telling you, the average guy cannot look

452
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: at a map, cannot just look down and see all

453
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 1: that road network and say I'm gonna go here, because

454
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: that looks like that's a little a little isolated. You

455
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: might get lucky. But if you do this, I do

456
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: this circle. If you do this, if you put a

457
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: radius around all the trail heads, I do a two

458
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: mile radius around all trail heads. I do a one

459
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: mile radius around all roads, and I mark it with

460
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: markarts and then I look at what's left. If you

461
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: do that, you'll be shocked at what starts jumping out.

462
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: Then I start looking at these pockets like that. That's

463
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 1: when I start looking for features in those areas that

464
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: makes sense because of the pressure evaluation. Yeah, that's that's

465
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: a great tip. One thing I'd like to do now

466
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: is we both know of all the features we look for. UM,

467
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna jump ahead a little bit and now you've

468
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: you've you went to the and Wildlife website, You've figured

469
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: out data that you need to harvest data or the

470
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: best you can. Um, you know, it's not always possible

471
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: to put boots on the ground. The one nice thing

472
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: me and you have is we've been to enough areas

473
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 1: that have had elk. We go back and it's almost

474
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 1: like retroactively going back and then re re e scouting,

475
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: like well, why did this area have so many elk?

476
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: So we've got all of this. But if you're a

477
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: new hunter, you've identified an area, you've identified a unit

478
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: you think you can get to where there's no pressure.

479
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: You know, you maybe you've jumped on Google Earth and

480
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: looked at the trailheads in September whatever you need to.

481
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: You're like, all right, I've got this spot. I can

482
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, get water here, I can camp here before

483
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: we get there, Like what makes an elk spot typically good?

484
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: Using all of the elk features and and then kind

485
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: of their multipliers, let's kind of walk through, you know,

486
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 1: kind of the list of elk features at least what

487
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: we're looking for. You know, it's it's very easy to

488
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: say elkn need three things. They need food, water, and cover.

489
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: Like you you hear that said all the time. I

490
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: say it all the time. But there's more to it

491
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: than that. Like, let's dive into what's food? What kind

492
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: of is it? Is it a migration area? Are these

493
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: elk going to continue to push higher and higher through August?

494
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: Or they maxed out in July? Like? These areas are

495
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 1: sometimes different. Um, you know those bulls that you scouted,

496
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: maybe you do get a scout all summer. Those bulls

497
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: are gonna move somewhere around August fifteen, Like do you

498
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: know where they're going? Do you know where the groups

499
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: of cows are? Um? Water that can mean different stuff

500
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: to different elk in different regions. You know, some areas

501
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: every creeks plumb full, some areas have springs. Some those

502
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: elk are gonna literally need to live the entire herd

503
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: is going to have to live out of a little seat. UM.

504
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: Let's talk about food, cover, water, um. But then you

505
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: know all of these things. I think everything that we

506
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: talked about ELK features can fault under that in one

507
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: form or another. You know, whether it's a bench that's

508
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: probably security, um. Comfort. Let's just start at the top

509
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: and walk down through the ELK features that we both

510
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: know we're looking for. Let's just let's not spend a

511
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: lot of time talking about each one because we go

512
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: that's a whole for you, you know, um or deal.

513
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: But I think it's important expose everyone to kind of

514
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: the things that I'm looking for. So once we've you know,

515
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: identified or spot and we've determined that we are interested

516
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: in it, guys, I look at a ton of places

517
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: that I never hunt. It just doesn't pan out. Even

518
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: though it met the It met the criteria for the stats,

519
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: it met the criteria for the pressure right the roads.

520
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: Everything I had some remote and as I had everything

521
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: I was looking for, but the feature set just didn't

522
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: support what I was looking for. And when I say

523
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: feature said, I do about ten to twelve things, depends

524
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: on the region. Um. But the first thing I do

525
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: is it's part of the pressure evaluation is trailhead and

526
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: trail analysis. Not many hunters do this, and I don't

527
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: know why, but they should, and I, like I said yesterday,

528
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: there's really only one tool you can use to do it,

529
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: and that's Google Earth. You need that in order to

530
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: look at that level of detail. You need the highest

531
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: zoom capability that you can get, and currently that's with

532
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: Google Earth. Now, as these apps get better and better

533
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: and better, that may change, but it presently um that's

534
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: still the best tool for getting fine detail worked on.

535
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: I look at every trailhead. Is it a Walmart parking

536
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: lot or does it look like there's only room for

537
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: two cars? That tells you so much right there. Most

538
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: guys just look at the maps. I'm gonna go to

539
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: trailhead be and they show up and it looks like,

540
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: you know, it looks like Costco and they're like, oh man.

541
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: And then and then they're immediately in a negative mindset,

542
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: right They're deflated, which you know, and maybe there's reason,

543
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: but maybe there's not reason. So I analyze every trail head.

544
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: I'm really I'm really picky about that. The next thing

545
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: I do is all the trails that are on the

546
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: map on the U S G S topo map that

547
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: are in my hunt area. I zoom in on every

548
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: one of them. I want to see. Can I see

549
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: the brown line? Is there grass in it? Are there

550
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: multiple lines meaning side parallel lines? That can mean one

551
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: of two things. If you start seeing a trail that has,

552
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: for example, multiple lines, that means there's either outfitters or

553
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: there's cattle. So because if it's just a hiking trail,

554
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: you won't see that, right, there's just little nuances like that.

555
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: The lot of guys don't really probably think about putting

556
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: in their arsenal. So I kind of break down the

557
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: area and that tells me a lot about I've already

558
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: done my pressure analysis, like I've said, now, now I

559
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: kind of have an idea of where everyone's parking, how

560
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: many people are parking there, and how they're using those

561
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: networks of trails. And if I see a really really

562
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: prime like the example I showed yesterday, really really prime unit,

563
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: one of the best in Montana, and a really obvious trail,

564
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: but there was no sign of anybody walking on this trail,

565
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: and we started breaking it down and it was this

566
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,959
Speaker 1: giant Beetle Kill area. So we immediately knew there's probably

567
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: a good chance the reason is not being used is

568
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: because it's gonna be difficult, right, Yeah, So that's that

569
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: start their second Well, and not in any particular word,

570
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to say second, just you know, these

571
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: are just the features I'll try to make sure I

572
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: remember in the right order. So, um, candians, creeks, and drainages.

573
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: I evaluate all the drainages. They're very important, ELK, what

574
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: direction they faced, the flat bottoms, how steep they are? Um,

575
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: do they have appropriate topography? What? How are they how

576
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: are they relate into the zones of pressure? Are their

577
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: trails in the bottom? Are there no trails in the bottom?

578
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: Those kind of features, the trails and canyons, creeks and drains,

579
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: and I would include basins and bowls and in that

580
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: as well. The next thing is probably, um, I'm trying

581
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: to think off the top of my head here, Um

582
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: what I would want to say next, Well, we'll just

583
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: jump into it. So fires, guys, fires and ELK just

584
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: go hand in hand, and a lot of hundreds know it.

585
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: So they look for fire zones. You've gotta be methodical

586
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: when you're researching, and it's not I hear so many

587
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: people say all the time, Oh, fire zones are great

588
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: for elk. I'm like, okay, that's good. Well why weren't

589
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: what time? When? How well does the fire have to be?

590
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: How steep does the fire? I mean, there's so many things.

591
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,959
Speaker 1: Giant fires, guys, and some of these fires are huge.

592
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: Where they how do they come in and out? Where?

593
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: Where are they most likely to come in and out?

594
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: We talked a lot about that, so breaking down fires

595
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: and the edges of those fires. What does the edge

596
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: look like? Is it a straight edge or is it

597
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,479
Speaker 1: a jagged edge? Are there burned timber patches, unburned timber patches.

598
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: All these things kind of stack up within fires to

599
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: make them more desirable to help for me. Beetle kills

600
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: one of my favorites, you know, But beetle kills, as

601
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: we talked about, they're very difficult to evaluate because you

602
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: in order to hunt a beetle kill, in my opinion,

603
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: you have to know when it started. Right. If you

604
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: go into a year old beetle kill is gonna be

605
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: a problem. It's gonna be very difficult. It's gonna be

606
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: very very strenuous physical. It doesn't mean the I was

607
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: gonna say some of the toughest hunt of my hunts

608
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: of my life have been in beetle kill where you

609
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: don't touch the ground for a week at a time.

610
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: But then the old hunting is just great. And so

611
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: it's just really what you're after on the hunt, Like,

612
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: is it going to frustrate you to high hell to

613
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: have to be, you know, dodging logs, But as you mentioned,

614
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna get into kind of the prime time in

615
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: your opinion, to hunt beetle kill. That's right. I like

616
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: the window. And one of the one of the reasons

617
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: I think I like beetle kills is I think guys hunters,

618
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: a lot of hunters are super scared beetle kills, and

619
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: I think it's a limit that you can use to

620
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: your advantage. I think it's something to people. Oh, I

621
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: don't have any interest in that, and uh or I

622
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: think a lot of guys they don't even know they're

623
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: hunting a beetle kill until they get there and then

624
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: they see it. Um. But there are a lot of

625
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: studies guys on beetle kills, and I've read almost everything

626
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: I can find about it, but most of the studies

627
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: are showing that the elk prefer the beetle kill to

628
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: a certain point. Once it becomes the jackpine type situation,

629
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: the elk use it less and less and less. There's

630
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: high pressure situation. Elk and low pressure do not tend

631
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: to go into those match stick environments as much or

632
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: more than they will UM in a high pressure. So,

633
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: for example, a lot of research in Colorado being done

634
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: on beetle kills because the whole state's pretty much wiped out. Well,

635
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: these elk are learning how to live in these beetle kills.

636
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: Like mass they've piled up beetle kills. These elk are

637
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: just living year round. They're not even migrating anymore, and

638
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: they're adapting. And guys that are capable and willing to

639
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: do it UM are having good luck with that. And

640
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: so beetle kills is one UM. Slopes, you know, UM

641
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: the right degree of slope, the right orientations. I spent

642
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: a lot of time on slopes. And you know, there's

643
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: some apps that are coming out now that have tremendous

644
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: slope analysis tools. Cal Tobo is a free site you

645
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: can use. It's got tremendous slope analysis. You know, elk

646
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: really prefer they really like that twenty degree. It's like

647
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 1: their magic zone. Once it gets up to closer to six. Now,

648
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: I say, here's the other thing I want to make

649
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: sure everyone knows, is I interchange percent and degree. But

650
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: that's not the way I should be doing it because

651
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: percent in degree or not the same. Guys, make sure

652
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: you understand that. So when you like looking Google Earth,

653
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: it's in percent when you look at most other things

654
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: in degree, I want to say it's about half, but

655
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: it's not quite half. So twenty degrees. That's not complete,

656
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: but you can kind of work off of that. But

657
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, people say, oh, I see Helk on super steep,

658
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: so of course you do. Of course you do what

659
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: puts them on that super steep. Well, pred ation people

660
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: pressure will cause late season, even because the snow being

661
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: um when blown off the slopes. There's reasons that Elks

662
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: starts spending time on more steeper slopes, in my opinion,

663
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: but during archery season, where they can go wherever they want,

664
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: it seems like that twenty is the magic and so

665
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time kind of like Okay,

666
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: there's this bench area, what's the slope, what's the slope?

667
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: Bang in this area, and uh, do I hunt an

668
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: area only because it has twenty degree slopes? No, it's

669
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: just another one of these. But I see it. I

670
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: just added to the list of features. And what are

671
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: we doing. We're stacking the odds, right, So we already

672
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: mentioned benches, um, funnels, and saddles. I spend quite a

673
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: bit of time on funnels and saddles, mainly because in

674
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: high pressure areas, if I'm hunting, I'm just gonna give

675
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: you guys a really good tip. If you're hunting Colorado,

676
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people there are guys, but there's

677
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: a lot of elk. We were talking, I mean a

678
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: lot of elk. Saddles and funnels are at the top

679
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: of my list. In Colorado. There's a lot of them,

680
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: and the mountains are steep, the terrain is big, elevations

681
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: are big, and they you know, when given the chance,

682
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: they love the path of least resistance. Right, So, saddles

683
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: and funnels, travel corridors, timber connections, those are all really

684
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: important in high pressure areas. You know, in low pressure states,

685
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: you get you draw my primo tag in Nevada, in Utah,

686
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: you'll see elk walking across giant meadows all the time, right,

687
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: And that's what you always see on TV, But in

688
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: OTC States, you just don't see that as much, right

689
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: you would, you agree? And they use these corridors, you know,

690
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: to move around, so I always want to identify those

691
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: as well. So that's a few of them, um that

692
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: I look for. Yeah, and I want to elaborate a

693
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: little bit on and maybe this is fast forward and

694
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: a little bit um. When I show up to a

695
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: to a trailhead, it's hunting season, now we're scouting is done.

696
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,479
Speaker 1: You had made mention of passes and saddles. Um. One

697
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: thing we we did talk about is the fringes which

698
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: you like to look out on, you know, big timber

699
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: to fire edges. You're looking at meadow to timber edges

700
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: when I show up to a trail head, to very

701
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: quickly proof the area. Now we don't want to go

702
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: blow them out of their beds and whatnot, but I

703
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: want to go check and and I will have I

704
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: told you I've burned it into my mind this area,

705
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: so I don't I don't have my apple marked up.

706
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: I know I'm gonna walk down this drainage. I want

707
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 1: to check this meadow edge and then I've almost got

708
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: my route pre planned. If there's elk there, then I'm

709
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: gonna climb, you know, at a forty five, I've got

710
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: a saddle up here I want to hit. I want

711
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: to see if these elk a flip flopping from this

712
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: drainage to that drainage, and just by checking fringe areas.

713
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: And when I when I say fringe, what I think is,

714
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, feed, which is meadows, alpine meadows not always

715
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: the biggest giantese meadow where they can feed secluded and comfortably.

716
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: I want to go check that edge. I want to

717
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: go check passes and saddles. I want to go check

718
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: potential bench edges or fringes. I don't necessarily want to

719
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: get right in there. And then I want to go

720
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: check for what I thought maybe potential water sources, if

721
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: there's wallows in the area, if there is like, um,

722
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, drinkable where I think elk have to go

723
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,479
Speaker 1: to drink versus a crick a crick. I'm not gonna

724
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: go run. Maybe I will run the bottom, but I

725
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: want to run fringes. I want to run ridgelines, And

726
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: then I want to go check on these other feature

727
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: rich areas. Or feature to feature areas just to see

728
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: if they're elk in there, and then otherwise back and

729
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: you know I'm wasting time there. Um. One of the

730
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: things we both get a bunch of questions is guys

731
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: and gals will go to a trailhead set with plan A.

732
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: They don't have a plan B, C or D. They

733
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: will put all over their eggs in that basket and

734
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: they will I don't want to say waste, but they

735
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: will use up all of their ten days at that

736
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 1: trailhead and never really be in them. You know, those

737
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: Elko move, and so you want to quickly go there

738
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: if my spot a maybe for some reason. You know,

739
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of a time on this now,

740
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: so I usually don't guess wrong where I think elk

741
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: are gonna be. But if I do, like I'm loading up,

742
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: like we're not sitting at this spot from more to day.

743
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 1: We we talked about the be out there at prime

744
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: time if I gotta get up two hours early, But

745
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: that two hours is gonna save me twenty four hours

746
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: or forty eight or seventy two of staying in an

747
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: area that doesn't have all I want to be out

748
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: there listening in the dark. I want to be out

749
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: there and looking for you know, be in their spots

750
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: in primetime. Run these areas, give it maybe a night

751
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: to see if things don't feed out in different locations

752
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: them out of there. I'm going, as you mentioned, we

753
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: did this EA scouting for multiple spots one, two, three, four, A, B, C,

754
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: and D and we're moving to the next spot. Man.

755
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: You man, you almost just preached right out of my course.

756
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: So that's one of the things, one of the you know,

757
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: at the end, our goal is have a hunt plan, right,

758
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: and so my idea of a hunt plan is a

759
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: collection of hunt areas like and hunt areas are exactly

760
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: as you described. It's a place that you could conduct

761
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: your entire hunt within. I never go on anything less

762
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: than a ten day hunt without four to five options.

763
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: Now everybody's like, oh man, that's a lot of work.

764
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, maybe, let's say you go to number

765
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 1: one and there's elk everywhere and you you never touched two,

766
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: three or four. Who cares? You've got those for next year.

767
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: They're always in your pocket. It's not you're not wasting

768
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: time developing hunt areas. So I see so many guys,

769
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: you know, one another tip, guys, stay as mobile as

770
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: you freaking can live like a gypsy. Don't set up

771
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: the giant wall tens and put the carpet in, build

772
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: the decks. I see just outrageous things. You know, you

773
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: are anchoring yourself to a spot you have automatically, in

774
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: my opinion, you've automatically decreased your odds for success. Now

775
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: you might get lucky from time to time, or you might. Everybody,

776
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: and I every guys tell me, I don't know if

777
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: you ever Yeah, we're gonna we're kind of waiting for

778
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: him to move in. I'm I, you ever heard that

779
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna be here any day? I'm like, you're gonna

780
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: You're gonna bet your entire ten days of elk hunting

781
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: that you waited the entire year on that they might

782
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: roll in. Now, if you are super familiar with an area,

783
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: I guys, I always get these, Well this happened to me.

784
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: I got it. But unless you really really really really

785
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: know an area and you and it's and it's happened

786
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 1: to multiple times, I I certainly wouldn't bet on that

787
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: for sure. I'm not even willing to give up. You know,

788
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: these guys are gonna show up. If you have a

789
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: ten day hunt, I'm not even willing to give four

790
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: to eight hours waiting. Like those elk are alive, bigling running,

791
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: living somewhere in that unit, Like, let's go find him.

792
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: It's just it's the other thing. I mean, not necessarily

793
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: with this podcast about but time is is like the

794
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: number one contributor to once the seasons here. Of course

795
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: you have to find elk, but it's just time and opportunity.

796
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: Like no matter how good a caller you are, no

797
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: matter how good a shot you are. Um, you know,

798
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: the wind does what the wind does. The elk do

799
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: what the elk do. You can't control them. It's gonna

800
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: take multiple times, and and I've got to be in

801
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: the game every day, um, in order for these things

802
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: to pan out. You know. There me and Ryan in

803
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: New Mexico, we were there for eight days, you know,

804
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: and and we got a shot. It was just like well,

805
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: and everybody else was kind of packing up. I'm not

806
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: gonna call name names, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean

807
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: it was just that point where it's you know, even

808
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: guys in one of the better units, it just takes

809
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: time for some of this stuff to all come together,

810
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, There's been many times where I might not

811
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: even decide. I'm pretty aggressive, so usually this doesn't happen,

812
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: but there may be an instance where I want to

813
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: watch these elk for a day or two to pattern him.

814
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: If I know nobody's gonna go pressure, and it's to

815
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: my advantage to see what these things do before I

816
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: finally like go blow the spot up. You know, it's

817
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: it's all or nothing, And I do that a lot too.

818
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 1: That's kind of my per now. One of the reasons

819
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: that we're able to do that, guys, is we get

820
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: a lot of days a hunt. And I understand, I'm blessed,

821
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: you're bled, we're all we're blessed to be doing what

822
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 1: we do, right. But when I was coming from Missouri hunting,

823
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: sometimes I had to get a little more aggressive. I

824
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: didn't have the luxury to wait for days and days

825
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: and days, or I didn't think I did. And uh,

826
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, Ryan said it. We were talking and that

827
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: they were asking Ryan last night about stalking that olk

828
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: and what he would do. What he in every time

829
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,919
Speaker 1: they kept trying to change the scenario so he would

830
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: change his answer, right, But what did he say every time?

831
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: He said, I would sit there, I'm waiting, waits I

832
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 1: would wait, wait wait. Patience kills out guys. Most people.

833
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: They act way too quick, they call too frequently, they

834
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: make a move too much, and sometimes guys slow it down.

835
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: They you're right where you need to be. Sometimes you

836
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: almost have to let the elk kill themselves. Yeah, we

837
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: we talked about it yesterday quite a bit, and multiple scenarios.

838
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: Once you decide to call, once you decide to let

839
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: that elk hear you, whether it's breaking brush, you've now

840
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: giving you you at that point, you've given up seclusion

841
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: and and you're no longer fly on the wall. You're

842
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: now an active part of the game versus a very

843
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: very passive part of the game. Whether and that affects me,

844
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: even if I'm gonna go in there and rip a

845
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: bugle like, I do not want him to know why

846
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: I'm on the ground anywhere that I'm in existence until

847
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm ready to a bugle. Um. You know, if we've

848
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: had you know, glunk and bowls running circles around cows,

849
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: and either're doing the same path, they're doing the same loop.

850
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: You know, why would you disrupt him being completely unfocused

851
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: on you, him giving you you know, multiple shots after

852
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: shots to give up your position, you know. And and

853
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: so we're we're on a little tangent there, but um yeah,

854
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: uh so to close here, we're we're winding up. We

855
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: got a lot of a lot of events going on

856
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: here and in places to get But if you could

857
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: give one single tip to help a new elk hunter

858
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: this year, Um, it doesn't even have to be in

859
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: line with finding elk or apps. Um, what would be

860
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: your your bit of advice here, I'm gonna go back

861
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: real quickly. I'm gonna go back to that multiple hunt plans.

862
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: Here's the thing I've talked to so many people. If

863
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: you invest in plan a a lot of guys become

864
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: emotional about it, right, Like they put a lot of work,

865
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: they scouted it. It just looks amazing. They just they

866
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: know there's gonna be a four hund inche bowl that

867
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: just standing in that meadow. When they get that right,

868
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: and then they get there and something people not no

869
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: elk whatever, something derails him and it's psychologically damaging. It

870
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: really is, especially the passion that we have for hunting elk.

871
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: When it when we when this passion gets interrupted, we

872
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: don't deal with it well, right, as elk hunters. Guys,

873
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: I'm telling you right now, UM, take the time work

874
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: out three or four options completely. So when the time comes.

875
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: Here's this scenario when you've got no plan and you're

876
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: driving into town to get sales service, to download some

877
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: maps and try to figure out what you're gonna do.

878
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: You're at a low of low. Right, we've all always

879
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: I've done it, I'll met it. But when you when

880
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: you say you hike in, like you said, you spent

881
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: twenty four hours and nothing turns up, and you're like,

882
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: but you know that you you've got a complete mapped

883
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: out plan. B make a move. You know how long

884
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: it's gonna take you to drive there. You know how

885
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: long it's gonna take you to hike into camp. You say,

886
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: if I leave right now, I can be there. I

887
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: can be at camp by three, I can even hunt

888
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: the evening. Your spirit as lifted right then you're ready

889
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: to move. But if you don't have in your maps

890
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: already downloa, everything is prepped, all your way points, all

891
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 1: your finding features, all your roots, your glass and spots,

892
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: everything is pre done, right, pre done. You are at

893
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: a comfort level. That is so I can't explain it's

894
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: almost euphoric that you're almost ready to move to plan too.

895
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: But when you don't know what you're gonna do, you're

896
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: very resistant to move. I'm gonna give it one more day, right,

897
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait. They're gonna they're gonna be here any day,

898
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: like we just said, and you'll start falling into those tracks.

899
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: And it's it's a mental compounding trap. Guys. There's so

900
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: many things that can go wrong without cunning. We have

901
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: to take control of the things that we can control.

902
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: And guys, hunt planning, that's stupid. If you do not

903
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: have your hunt planned together, that's just that's laziness, in

904
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: my opinion. You can't control where they are are gonna be.

905
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: You might be able to can't control what people are

906
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: gonna do. You can't control the masses, where, what the

907
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: trailer e they're gonna show up, But you can't control

908
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: what you're going to do and how you're going to

909
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: do it. And if you have a systematical approach to

910
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: start working through, you stay mobile, you stay fluid, you

911
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: can move quickly from one to the other, and you've

912
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: got progression. You know. One of the things I'll tell you,

913
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: if you're hunting with a buddy. One other tip that

914
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: I this has just proved out to be so good

915
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: to me too, is you know, the last thing that

916
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: if I would tell somebody to do is when you

917
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: look at planning your like an assault into an area,

918
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: try to do I call it progressive hunting, where you

919
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: can park a rig at one spot and hunt to

920
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: that rig because when you go in and out on

921
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: the same trail, you're you're I'm not saying it's not productive,

922
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: but you're seeing the same territory and a lot of guys.

923
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: It's just it's a little more work to plan that out. Now,

924
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: sum areas just don't work out like that, right, the

925
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 1: trails don't connect riders too far or whatever. But one

926
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: of my most successful tactics with my llamas is to

927
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: start a trail at a and do like I do,

928
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: like thirty forty miles through, but I have rigs it

929
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: both in. If I only make it two miles in,

930
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: there's everywhere, great, I go back to that rig. If

931
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle, I just try to say, Okay,

932
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: which way is the roughness? Yeah? And you know, guys,

933
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: it's it's incredibly productive because you're seeing new country and

934
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: allows you to work through a progression. You might not

935
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: get elk here here here, but sometimes hiking in five

936
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: miles and coming out five miles, you know, it takes

937
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: up a lot of time to do it waiting and

938
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: your your own So you've now hiked ten miles, right,

939
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: but you've only got to see five miles from the country,

940
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: and you I feel like it's a deadhead on the

941
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: five miles back because you've already wrote that country off

942
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: as we're walking through it. And so now, guys, don't

943
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:47,959
Speaker 1: get me where. You can't do that most of the time,

944
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: and if you're solo, that may not work as well.

945
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: But if you're hunting in the group and you've got

946
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 1: multiple vehicles, guys, don't forget that strategy. It's a good one.

947
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: And you know, kind of the piggyback and and kind

948
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: of close the loop on this hump planning. I agree

949
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: hunt plan number one. Know what you're going to do

950
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: if spot one, two, three, and four don't pan out

951
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: where you're going. But the other part is, as he

952
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: had mentioned, you show up and there's you know, trees

953
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: all over the trail. You had this pretty picture in

954
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: your mind, you're gonna hike. It's gonna take you two

955
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: point three four you know, three or four hours to

956
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: hike the five miles. This is what we're gonna set

957
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: up your tent. And um, it just it's a psychology issue.

958
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: You know you instantly fall apart. But um to piggyback

959
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: on that is, don't give up because that drive to

960
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: town you're instantly thinking about, is this hunt already over?

961
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: Like it's very easy unless you're just mentally prepared to

962
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: to to keep fighting through it. Um, don't give up

963
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: like I would. I would challenge you to just spend

964
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: a day on the mountain and enjoy it, Like, don't hunt,

965
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: just hang out, listen, drive the road system, glass and

966
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: just give yourself a day. Because time is is. Ultimately

967
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 1: we can talk about finding elk, we can talk about

968
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: being the best bowshot, the best color. Um, Ultimately you

969
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 1: have to keep punching that time clock. And that's days

970
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: in the field and more importantly, days on elk, not

971
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: in your truck, not in your especially not at home

972
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: right when you've given up and take that drift home.

973
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: Like my wife would kill me if you hear me

974
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: you say this, But I would rather have a ten

975
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: day vacation, hanging out on the road in Elk country

976
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 1: where I can physically then to be home. Um Like,

977
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: at that point, I've now lost my ability to kill anything.

978
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: We had to, you know, we had the cast asked

979
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: us that question as we never hunted out right, he's

980
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: here at this summent. He goes, what's the one thing

981
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: I could do? What's the one thing I could do?

982
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: While there's so many we could have said, But what

983
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: did we say? Just stay in the game, get out

984
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: there at first, like, get out of stay until dark,

985
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: you know, move around. I mean, guys, good things happen

986
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: if you put yourself in play. If you're in your

987
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: truck and you're driving around or you're at home, you're

988
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: certainly not going to kill an alp. And I can't

989
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: tell you know elk cutting. I say this about bear

990
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: hunting as well, But it's boredom and one percent freaking

991
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: crazy adrenaline. Right, you work for that one percent. You

992
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: never know when that one percent is gonna happen. It

993
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: can happen at any moment. I've been in areas I

994
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: haven't seen any sign, No, well haven't heard it, And

995
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: all of a sudden there's a giant bulls screaming in

996
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: front of me or just out of nowhere. Now, I'm

997
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: not saying it happens all the time, but guys, you

998
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: just gotta stay in the game, don't get discouraged, don't

999
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: give up any The way not to get discouraged is

1000
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: by planning. The more planning you have, the better. And

1001
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: I guess if we got time, I'll say one more, guys,

1002
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: don't get out of your capabilities. I have an entire

1003
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: module in my course dedicated to realities and limitations, and

1004
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: the reason I see so many guys eight nine miles

1005
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: in the background try and I'm like, what are you

1006
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: guys gonna do if you're killing out well, I don't know.

1007
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: I mean, guys, if you go beyond your capability, you're

1008
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: gonna wear yourself down. You're gonna limit the days you're

1009
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: gonna be able to hunt. You can kill Elk one

1010
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: or two miles on the road, right, if that's your limit,

1011
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: work a plan that works with your capabilities. If you're

1012
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: out of shape, who cares. That doesn't mean you can't

1013
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: hunt Elk. It just means you gotta work maybe a

1014
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,479
Speaker 1: little more strategic, maybe cross a creek that nobody's willing

1015
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: to cross. Maybe you're gonna do somethings like that, but

1016
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: work a plan that works in your bill. Don't don't

1017
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: try to be Ryan Lambers if you're not Ryan Lamber's right,

1018
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: And because you're gonna get over your head and you're

1019
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna be negative and you're gonna be it's

1020
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: gonna wear you down and you're gonna quit hunting. Yeah, early,

1021
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 1: really early, God forbid you kill an elk or something

1022
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: back there and then really having a big issue on

1023
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: your hands to stay in your ability. You owe it

1024
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: to the elk, right, It's not only about I mean

1025
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: I feel like I owe it to the elk to

1026
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: get all that meat out. And it takes a while

1027
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: for new hunters to build that understanding and like mental capacity,

1028
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 1: like I think some of us have moved, Like I

1029
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: can kill an milk anywhere, and I'll devise a plan

1030
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: like I need to get it to a creek, Like

1031
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: I will figure out a way to take care of

1032
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,919
Speaker 1: this elk. But I think until you've did it enough

1033
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, it's it's it's just as much of

1034
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: of a mental game. And I think as you hit

1035
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: the nail on the head by planning, you're at least

1036
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: taking some of that mental pressure off of yourself not

1037
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: to give up on the hunt. So you're not gonna

1038
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: let yourself. Guys, when you're hunting, you're dehydrated, you're stressed,

1039
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: your wife's texting in your in reach. When you're gonna

1040
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: come home, you got all these they got work, you

1041
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: know you're thinking about. You have so many things on

1042
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: your mind. The more you can take the decisions out

1043
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: of your the equation when you're out cutting, I make

1044
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: when I go elk cutting, by the time I get

1045
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: to the trailhead right, my decisions are made. I know

1046
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: where I'm going pretty much every day until something happens. Now,

1047
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: I'll make modifications, but I've got a systematic strategy that

1048
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work through. And when you're laying in your

1049
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: tent and you you haven't seen anything yet, when and

1050
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: you pull out that hunt plane, you're looking at it,

1051
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I forgot about this little spot that

1052
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: I had. I'm gonna go there tomorrow, and all of

1053
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're an elk. But if you don't have it,

1054
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna make bad decisions. You're gonna give up while

1055
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're going to You're going to be

1056
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: more likely to. Well, I really appreciate having you on

1057
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: today market we get back to some of the other um,

1058
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, classes and stuff going on. Really appreciate. Can

1059
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 1: you tell everybody how to find out a little bit more,

1060
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: how to get ahold of you, how to find out

1061
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,399
Speaker 1: more about Treeline Pursuits, Treeline Academy, and uh, I've got

1062
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: to sit on you know, some of mark stuff both

1063
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: Elk Shape Now and at Western Hunting Summit. Um a

1064
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: wealth of information. You know. I think it's we've got

1065
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: to talk here for a little over half hour, but

1066
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: you've got forty hours plus of material. Um you dive

1067
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: and then he dives way deeper into some of this

1068
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: stuff on you know features specifically how to use some

1069
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: of the apps to find that. Let everybody know how

1070
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: to find you, how to check check out more of that.

1071
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: So start with you can I mean on Instagram, I

1072
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: I really do. I try to do a pretty good

1073
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: job of keeping my content up and what's going on.

1074
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: Some of the film Al was in Bear Hunts and

1075
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: all the things we've been doing, but tree Line pursued

1076
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: tree Line Underscore pursues his Instagram and then tree Line

1077
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: Pursuits dot Com is kind of my my landing page

1078
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: for a lot of my you know, d hy dehydrat

1079
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 1: meals recipes and articles and blah blah blah. But tree

1080
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: Line Academy dot net is where the course sets. You

1081
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 1: can get to it through tree Line Pursuits dot com

1082
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: if you just remember that. But you know the main

1083
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: thing it Just check out my Instagram page. I've got

1084
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,240
Speaker 1: linked tree with all the access to all these things.

1085
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: So we're really appreciate once again having you Mark take

1086
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: care of um great information. And like I say, I

1087
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: would bet you know what I've heard Mark say of stuff.

1088
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: It's the exact same stuff I use. I'm just not

1089
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: is organized as him, but we're looking for the same

1090
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: exact things. You just made sure to save everything a

1091
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: little better and tidy it up. You already going to

1092
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: the city. You're already got these places work down, so

1093
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: you've already done the work. So alright, thanks for having

1094
00:52:54,200 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: Thanks m