1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Live from our nations. This budget thing is going to 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: do nothing space sports. I still think it's interesting President 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Trump not playing his cards yet headlines, Policy and Politics, 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: aligning to Sound On with Kevin cerel the insiders, the influencers, 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: the insides. I would rather see a congressional solution. It's 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: part of my DNA. The Senate map in looks a 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: lot different than it looked in. You really have a 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: divide within Team Trump. The President has to do exactly 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: what people send him here to do, which is to 10 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: get it done. He's sound On with Kevin Currelate on 11 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg one and seven a m h D two boltom 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: are Happy help day, folks, A beautiful day here inside 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: of the Beltway. I'm Kevin Cirelli, Bloomberg News Chief Washington 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: correspondent for Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg Radio. Breaking news as 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: we speak, the President weighing in on those ongoing US 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: China trade talks. This is China's Vice Premier Leo hou 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: Is in washing Tim d c. Plus more fallout tonight 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: for former Vice President Joe Biden. Just within the last 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: hour and a half, he has released a public video 20 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: via his Twitter following criticism of his what many are 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: calling inappropriate behavior, what others are saying is not that 22 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: and just a misunderstanding. We'll dive into the political implications 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: of the race and even more developments now as President 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: Trump's officials are studying options and economic impacts of what 25 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: it would mean to close down the US Mexico border. 26 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: We have an all star panel joining us for the 27 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: hour in studio nerd Alert. As Mattie Doubler, friend of 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: the program, just referred to it as she is a 29 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: senior fellow at the National Taxpayers Union and former Coalitions 30 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: director for the House Republican Conference. A friend of the 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: program and his first time on the Sound On program. 32 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: Robert Shapiro, chairman of Sonic Con, which is located he 33 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: are inside of the Beltway, and he's got a business background. 34 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: He is well a senior fellow at the Georgetown University 35 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: School of Business. He's an advisor to the International Monetary 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: Fund and a host of different other economic developments dating 37 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: back as a principal economic advisor to former President Bill Clinton. 38 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: But before we get into all of that, all right, 39 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 1: NATS fans, we split it, Okay, then that's just one 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: against my Philadelphia Phillies nine to eight. But we won 41 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: last night, and I gotta say I was a little 42 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: bit disappointed to see Mr Harper get pooed. That said, 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot of escalating tension, not just between Philadelphia 44 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: sports fans and the Washington Nationals, but also between the 45 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: US and China. This as Chinese Vice Premier Leo Hua 46 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: has arrived in Washington, d C. To meet with Treasury 47 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: Secretary Stephen Manusian as well as US Trade Representative Bob Leightheizer. 48 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: And if the Financial Times report is correct, which why 49 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: would it be incorrect, they are nearing completion of a deal, 50 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: especially on the issue of enforcement mechanisms. Everybody wants to 51 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: know when ultimately President Trump and President shi Jing Ping 52 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: of China will sit down face to face to finalize 53 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: some type of an agreement. Two of those folks who 54 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: want to know are Maddie Doppler, a Senior Fellow at 55 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: the National Taxpayers Union and former Coalitions director for the 56 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: House Republican Conference, and Robert Shapiro. He is chairman of Sonicon. 57 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: He is also you can find his published works at 58 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: the Brookings Institution. UH He is a Senior Fellow of 59 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: Georgetown University School of Business. You're everywhere, Robert, I mean, 60 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: like your first time on the ship. Yeah, I mean 61 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: it's haways. It's time. I've been telling Christina. I'm like, 62 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: we gotta have Robert Shapiro one favoring talk a little 63 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: bit closer to the mic for us, because we want 64 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: to make sure we hear everything that you have to say, 65 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: especially on US trying to trade talks. But Mattie, let 66 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: me start with you this week with Chinese Vice Premier 67 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: Leo Hua. What are you what? What should folks really 68 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: truthfully be looking for, especially from the market perspective. I 69 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: think everything right now is a game of inertia. You 70 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: saw after the US delegation travel to China last week, 71 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: we got an announcement of China that they would continue 72 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: to make increased purchases of soybeans. In addition to UH 73 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: the rules on fentonel, which of course we know as 74 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: a high priority for the Trump administration. The question is 75 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: what can we continue to see as progress towards a 76 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: final deal in these intervening weeks. I think the expectations 77 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: that Trump UH and j Jim Paying will sit down 78 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: together at the end of the month are malleable. But 79 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: as long as there is still forward progress, I think 80 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: that the markets will tolerate any news rather than no 81 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: news at all. Look, the fact is that China knows 82 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: that the United States cannot afford to put to keep 83 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: these tariffs in place more than of the goods affected 84 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: by it, our intermediate goods. That means they're goods that 85 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: are coming into the United States because they're part of 86 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: something a US company is producing in the United States. 87 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: We got the same problem with this notion of closing 88 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: the border that so much of what comes in from 89 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: Mexico is coming in in order to assemble and produce 90 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: things in the United States. So we've got to find 91 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: an agreement or we're shooting ourselves in the foot as 92 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: well as China in the foot. Coming up, we're gonna 93 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: talk much more about the developments that went on today 94 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: regarding the border talks, but sticking with the trade policy 95 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: for just just a little bit longer. I want to 96 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: play for you what Larry Cudlow had to say at 97 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: the Christian Science Monitor breakfast in Washington, d C. Earlier today. 98 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: He was asked about, uh, the possibility, I'm sorry he 99 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: was asked actually about the possibility of shutting down the 100 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: border and the economic impacts. Here's here's Larry Cublow. He's 101 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: flagging to the American you know, the American people, how 102 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: serious this is and how committed he is to restoring 103 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: some semblance of law and order down there and to 104 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: genuinely protect America's borders and its security. But but, but, Robert, 105 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: I mean, is it really economically worth it to shut 106 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: down even a portion of the ports of entry along 107 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: the two thousand mile US Mexico border. It makes no sense. 108 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: It has no effect on immigration. What it does is 109 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: it disrupts the global supply chains of American companies, just 110 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: as the China's tariffs. Do you know these kinds of 111 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: policies made sense when everything we produced, all the all 112 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: the inputs were made in the United States, when we 113 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: were essentially a closed economy. It makes no sense in 114 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: a global economy. I think I found an area in 115 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: which you and the former senior economy the advisor to 116 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton and Al Gore and John Kerry. I think 117 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: I think there's plenty we could agree on. And also 118 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: I agree on this point in particular, because that is 119 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: not the point that the president is trying to make 120 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: the point the President is trying to make is that 121 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: we have finite resources at the border, and unless there 122 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: is disruption to demonstrate that, he is not going to 123 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: be able to execute on his political political aims. So 124 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: that's why he's making this threat. Do I think he's 125 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: actually going to go and shut on the border, No, 126 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: But I think that advisors like Cudlaw, like your friend 127 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: Kevin Hassett, have been trying to make the case to 128 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,119 Speaker 1: him that the economic pain that it creates would create 129 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: so much disruption that the political leverage that can created 130 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: by that would not be beneficial. So I also find 131 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: it interesting just to see some of the reporting that 132 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: our colleagues have done, and you can find that on 133 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal essentially of how specific they are getting 134 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: in the weeds of these of what it would look 135 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: like to shut down parts of the border, because they're saying, 136 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: now railroads would still be been. Manufacturers are like, thank you, 137 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: And because that would significantly impact manufacturing though yes, yes, absolutely, 138 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: although many more of the inputs and the goods are 139 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: coming in by truck, and they actually some of the 140 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: chatter not to interrupts, to interrupter some of the chatter 141 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: some of the know it's it's Bloomberg show, is that 142 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: the trucks, that trucks would also get some some some 143 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: leeway as well. Well, then what is the point of 144 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: the policy? Right? This is just like the tariffs, Right, 145 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: if we issue enough exclusions, at what point did the 146 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: tariffs not have the political clout that the administration wants 147 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: them to have. That would be the same argument I 148 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: think being made on the border. If you allowed trucks 149 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: in but not cars, then how many resources are being 150 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: deployed to administrate that? Again, this is about leverage and 151 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: what the president is trying to accomplish on border secure. 152 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: This is this is symbolic politics and which has actual 153 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: effects beyond the symbol, and all the effects are negative. 154 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: This will not increase Trump's leverage uh with Congress. It 155 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: will decrease his leverage with Congress because once again there'll 156 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: be another thing for Democrats to blame the president for. 157 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: But see Robert, I don't think that's the audience here. 158 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: I think the audience here is the business community and 159 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: traditional Republican allies who so far have not been a 160 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: part of the immigration debate. They've kind of they've kind 161 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: of helded arms length because they don't want to get 162 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: involved in what the what has been the Trump administration's 163 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: downbr one priority. This is the President's attempt to try 164 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: and rain them in to realize that the stakes are 165 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: high for them too. Well. Would Patrick moynihan have to 166 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: say about this? Coming up, we stick with US China 167 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: trade policy as well as the immigration debate. Much more 168 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: from our all Star panel. Robert Shapiro is on Bloomberg 169 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: Sound On, the Senior Economic Advisor to everybody, he's here 170 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: in studio and of course Maddie Doppler, the Maddie Doppler Stays. 171 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: You can find our latest episodes on Apple iTunes, at 172 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, on the bloom Bird Business app, as 173 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: well as on Spotify. Now. We're on Spotify, folks, as 174 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: well as radio dot com, UH and UH a host 175 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: of other different platforms and I heart Radio. I'm Kevin 176 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: CURRELLI you're listening to Bloomberg. This is Sound On with 177 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: Kevin's he related on Bloomberg one and one oh five 178 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: point seven of m h D two Baltimore. We are 179 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: standing up to China's chronic trading abuses and theft of 180 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: intellectual properties and so many other things that they've done 181 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: to us. That was President Donald Trump speaking earlier about 182 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: the U S. China trade talks. This is Chinese Vice 183 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: Premier Leo Hua is in Washington, d C. This week, 184 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: meeting with US Trade Representative Bob Leightheiser as well as 185 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Stephen Manusian. Remember those two the traders, as 186 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: President Trump likes a playfully call them UH behind the 187 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: scenes and now increasingly out in public. We're in Beijing 188 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: last week continuing to hammer out details of what many 189 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: are hoping will be some type of an agreement between 190 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: the US and China. A lot of people are hoping 191 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: for that, including the markets here to help take us 192 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: through all of this, Maddie Zuppler. She is a senior 193 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: fellow at the National Taxpayers Union and former Coalitions director 194 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: for the House Republican Conference and Robert Shapiro. He's been 195 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: an economic advisor dating back to former President Bill Clinton, 196 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: as well as to Al Gore and John Kerry's presidential campaigns. 197 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: He is the UH. He is also the chairman of 198 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: sonicn Sonic provides a host of different security and risk 199 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: management services to companies internationally. Right, Yeah, So we were 200 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: talking earlier about especially the tone two voters in the electorate, 201 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: and Robert, you as it relates to trade policy and 202 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: potentially shutting down the US Mexico border, especially as the 203 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: president continues to do that. Robert, You've got a piece 204 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: up on uh Democracy Magazine. Uh. It's also you can 205 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: find it at Georgetown's website that really goes into the 206 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: economic analysis and sort of zeitgeist of how folks can 207 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: communicate with white working class voters that President Trump was 208 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: able to win in the last cycle. And the piece 209 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: is called Race, Ethnicity and the job Market. You're really 210 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: dove into it, Robert, Well, you know, it kind of 211 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: bothered me. Um the following problem here. You've got Trump 212 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: as a populist, and it makes perfect sense that populism 213 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: would emerge in this period because we had the financial crash, 214 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: we had more than a decade of stagnating incomes. People 215 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: were very dissatisfied. The question was why did populism in 216 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: which immigrants and minorities were cast as the bad guys work, 217 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: as opposed to populism which targeted financial elites who brought 218 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: about the financial collapse and multinational moguls who were shipping 219 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: shipping jobs abroad. So the question was why did this work? 220 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: And I looked into changes in the workforce, what had 221 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: happened to the composition of the workforce over the last decade. 222 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: And what I found was, for a whole host of reasons, 223 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: there there was a very large shift in the workforce 224 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: at every educational level um of large gains by Hispanics, 225 00:13:55,280 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: very large gains by Asians, moderate gains by African Americans, 226 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: and declines among whites. Now, this is what we're describing 227 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: here is, on the one hand, the increased diversity of 228 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: the American workforce. That's a good thing. What it what 229 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: it revealed, however, was that there were significant losers. And 230 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: the losers in this um were non college educated white workers. 231 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: And in your piece, Robert Shapiro, former or not former, 232 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: he advises virtually every prominent Democrat on economics and has 233 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: dating back to former President Bill Clinton. Uh, you write, 234 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, look, invest in infrastructure, education, basic research, promote 235 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: private as well as public investment by reducing deficits. But 236 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: then I'll read from from this portion of the piece quote. 237 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: The next piece is more challenging. Whatever people feel about 238 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: the global economy, we cannot escape it. So we have 239 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: to welcome foreign investment and reach out to foreign demand, 240 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: a specially for manufactured goods. But in an era where 241 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: people are like, what are the Chinese investing in? What 242 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: are the Russians investing in? You know? I mean, is 243 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: that that's a really tough sell. Well, it may be 244 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: a tough sell, but it's the reality. It's the economic reality. 245 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: It's a reality that President Trump is dealing with right now, 246 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: which is to say, however much he wants to threaten 247 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: China or threatened to close the border with Mexico, he 248 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: cannot actually take these steps without really hurting American workers 249 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: and American companies because everything is now integrated and interrelated 250 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: around the world. Well, so I'm interested to know, though, 251 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: what is the political audience for that argument, because not 252 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: only does the Trump administration seemingly reject that thesis that 253 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: we need to embrace this globalization, Democrats too, I think, 254 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: have typically not been adherents of that worldview either. So 255 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: are there politicians here in Washington who are willing to 256 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: take you at your word here in exact policy that 257 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: coincides with that. Look, you know, Bill Clinton did pretty 258 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: well with that by saying we can out compete everybody 259 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: in the world. You know that there's nothing to be 260 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: afraid of in this competition. And I can see certain 261 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: democratic current Democratic candidates prepared to make that argument. At 262 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: the same time they say nobody's going to make a 263 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: fool of us, etcetera. The kind of I think this 264 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: is the natural pivot, particularly for the Trump administration right, 265 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: is to make the case that America is first, rather 266 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: than trying to argue that we have somehow fallen behind. 267 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: America is first, and we can compete on a global 268 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: scale because of all the things that not only un 269 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: this outline, but because of the unique nature of our country, 270 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: we have the ability to do so. To me, this 271 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: seems like it would be a welcome pivot from the 272 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: arguments that I've been made already. I have to say, 273 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: I look, I would certainly welcome it. Uh actually admit 274 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: to you that I'm an optimist, and that makes me 275 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: somewhat of an outline. Are all optimists on Bloomberg sounds. 276 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: But the issue that the Trump political people have to 277 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: deal with is that his populism is fundamentally and explicitly 278 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: race based, and that interferes with this vision of kind 279 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: of one world and that you would disagree with that. 280 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: I would disagree with that, and I think that to 281 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: your point, though, Robert, the argument Trump made during the 282 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: election was I hear you, I see you to a 283 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: group of people who felt they'd been left behind by 284 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: previous elites. In Washington. Coming up, we're going to talk 285 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: about more of the policy impacts of these populist chatter, 286 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 1: as well as the policy based ideas and the impact 287 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: on this that all of this has on presidential election 288 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: panel stays I'm Kevin Surreally. Download the Sound On podcast 289 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: on Apple it Tunes, at Bloomberg dot com, or by 290 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: downloading the Bloomberg Business app. You can also find us 291 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: on Radio dot com, I Heart Radio and Spotify. You're 292 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to Sound On with Kevin 293 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: Surreally on Bloomberg and one oh five point seven F 294 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: M H D two Boltom. We have our views and 295 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: you can have your views without breaking the independence of 296 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: the FED has never been our intent. Fat is the FED. 297 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: The FED is the FED. That was Larry Cudlow, the 298 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: President's chief economic advisor, speaking earlier today in Washington, d C. 299 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: At the Christian Science Monitor breakfast. He was asked about 300 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: all of the different criticisms that President Trump has lodged 301 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: via Twitter and publicly against FED Chair Jerome Powell. And 302 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: this also comes as he has just nominated literally the 303 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: author of the book he wrote the book called Trump 304 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: and Trump Trump Anmics of course, Stephen Moore of the 305 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation fame UH and Conservative Economic Circle fame. He's 306 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: actually gonna be on tomorrow. I will have that interview 307 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: for us tomorrow. Stephen Moore, the President's nominee to the Fedboard, 308 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: who is not afraid to shake things up, an echo 309 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: President Trump as it comes to the issues of defending 310 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: him against FED Chair Jerome Powell. I was struck, though, 311 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: folks by what Anthony Scaramucci told me earlier this week 312 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: here on the program, which was maybe Stephen Moore doesn't 313 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: agree on tariff, so i'll i'll, we'll get his take 314 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: on that tomorrow. Here with me today to talk about 315 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: what we just heard about regarding the Central Bank. Maddie Duppler, 316 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: she is senior fellow at the National Taxpayers Union and 317 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: former Coalitions director for the House Republican Conference, and Robert Shapiro, 318 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: his first time on the program, hopefully not his last. 319 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: He's rman of Sonicon, which is an international advising firm 320 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: advises companies on how to navigate the political economic implications 321 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: of Washington and regulatory affairs. He's advised really every major 322 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: Democratic president and even some Republicans dating back to former 323 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: President Bill Clinton. He's got this excellent piece that we 324 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: were discussing earlier, uh that is published in the Democracy Journal, 325 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: a journal of ideas about race, ethnicity, and the job market. 326 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: Taking very delicate, delicate subject matters and and talking about 327 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: the numbers on them. So let's talk about some of 328 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: the data in your peace, Robert, especially as it relates 329 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: to the Federal Reserve. What do you make of how 330 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: Stephen Moore could shake things up on the Federal First 331 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: of all, does he get confirmed? My guess is no, 332 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: But that's a fifty five okay. Um, you know, the 333 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: question is all the Democrats will oppose them. The question 334 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: is are there for uh, for Republicans will peel off. 335 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: I think that's just a little more likely than not. 336 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: What's republicans, Maddie, do you think would peel off? And? Oh, 337 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: that's a good question. I haven't contemplated that because frankly, 338 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're following what happened in the Senate today. Uh, 339 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: Leader McConnell once again went to the floor to uh 340 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: to um object to the way Democrats have foiled Repelicans 341 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: ability to get nominees through. You know, we've got folks 342 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: who are sitting on boards who are essentially overseeing Obama 343 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: era policies because the Senate hasn't been able to process 344 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: some of these nominees from the Trump administration. So now 345 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: there's a two hour rule rather than a thirty hour rule. 346 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,479 Speaker 1: On they failed, I thought it passed. It made it 347 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: more difficult in terms of yesterday to reduce the reduction 348 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: of hours. Uh. And Leader McConnell has tried to reduce this. 349 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: Oh yes, so you's I'm sorry. So this is the 350 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: first attempt was to get Democrats on board in order 351 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: to do yes, yes, in order to get Democrats on 352 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: board to do that. So now what they did is 353 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 1: they establish a point of order that would create a 354 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: new protocol for those sorts of nominees moving forward. They 355 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: did two votes today. I think what's five eight? They 356 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: should be those by now. UM, So that's the new 357 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: standard that two hours will be the way that you 358 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: process some of these ominations in an attempt to get 359 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: some of these guys like Daylight Saving senative this year, 360 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, like you spring forward right, not to get 361 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: too in the weeks. But I don't know, I mean, 362 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: if it should should Stephen Moore? I mean, and a 363 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: lot of folks think, oh, no, we haven't had these 364 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: political fights at the Central Bank. Robert Shapiro, I gotta say, 365 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: I totally disagree with this. I'm old enough to remember 366 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: covering Larry Summers versus j Yells Janet Yellen. I shouldn't 367 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: be so disrespectful to the former FED chair Janet Yellen, 368 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: the first female chairwoman of the of the Central Bank. 369 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: So I mean, let's be honest for a second, this 370 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: preen age Twitter, but there have been some political fights 371 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: at the Central Bank. And let's also make the obvious 372 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: point that Stephen Moore is not going to change the 373 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: direction of FED policy. Can we can we just hear that? 374 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: Did everybody hear that that one of the most senior 375 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: economic advisers to Democratic presidential candidates and presidents just said 376 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: that Stephen Moore is not going to change the Central 377 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: Bank policy. He's one of seven governors. He's one of 378 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: twelve members of the Open Market Committee. And this is 379 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: an institution in which the chairman has most of the 380 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: power anyway, the chairman of the staff. It's really a 381 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: staff drift institution. Um. The the larger issue is the 382 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: president's attacks on FED policy. Uh, And we have to 383 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 1: understand what Pal was doing here. The fact is we 384 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: are near the end of this business cycle. It's ten 385 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: years old. Business cycles do a lot last forever. All 386 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: the signs are there. We have an inverted or near 387 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: inverted yield curve, which is the single best sign that 388 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: a recession is likely in the next year. Him and 389 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: gloom right, Well, that's that's the way business cycles work. 390 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: But but what Pal was doing was continuing Yellin's policy 391 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 1: of quote unquote normalizing interest rates. What that means is 392 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: raising interest rates enough so that when we hit the 393 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: next recession, you can cut them enough to help the economy. 394 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: But we've now paused, which so the fete is I 395 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: think nowhere near this whole notion of accommodation any longer. 396 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: And that raises the question of if we do enter 397 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: a recession, do we have the monetary tools available to 398 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: us in order to combat it. But I I again, 399 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: I'm the optimist, right, We're all optimists here on Bloomberg Radio. 400 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: And I think that to go back to your point earlier, Robert, 401 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: to your piece about what's happening in the labor market 402 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: that still continues to be uh unique, it's even if 403 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: the yield curt isn't yield curve is inverting. So what 404 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: does that mean moving forward for the Fed that has 405 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: a mandate to do with him? What does it mean 406 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: should we be on the brink of another recession? For 407 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: the presidential cycle coming up? We're gonna get all of 408 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: this in the context of the crowded Democratic field. Former 409 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: Vice President Joe Biden folks tweeting out a video apologizing 410 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: sort of, sort of for what Summer saying is inappropriate conduct. 411 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: I do want to get a breaking news headline that 412 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: is crossing the Bloomberg terminal now, Christine Barata our EP 413 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: flagging it for US President Trump's Fed picks, Stephen Moore 414 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: questioned by Democrats on unpaid taxes. He'll be on our 415 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: show tomorrow. I'm Kevin Cilli. You can download the Sound 416 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: Dawn podcast on Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg dot com or 417 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: by downloading the Bloomberg Business app. You can also check 418 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 1: us out on radio dot Com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify. 419 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg, you're listening to Sound On with 420 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: Kevin's really on Bloomberg one and one seven F M 421 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: h D two Baltimore. That's Matt Kearney crashing down. And yes, 422 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: my hopes of my Philadelphia Phillies defeating the Washington Nationals 423 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: this afternoon came crashing down. But Congratinats fans. I guess 424 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: on your win. But I was disappointed at the booing 425 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: of Mr Harper last evening, and I'm assuming today. I 426 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: haven't checked to see if he was booed because I 427 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: was at work. But we are talking all things populism 428 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: and politics. I'm Kevin surreally a Philadelphia area native, so 429 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: that's why my bias is showing with the Philadelphia Phillies, 430 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: never with politics. I'm the chief Washington correspondent Bloomberg Television 431 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Radio. We are talking all things populism and 432 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: politics with an all star panel, including Maddie Duppler. She 433 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: is the Senior Fellow at the National Taxpayers Union and 434 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: former Coalitions director for the House Republican Conference and his 435 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: first time on the program. He's advised virtually every major 436 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: Democratic presidential candidate, even some Republican presidents and Democrat presidents, 437 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: from Obama to Clinton. Robert Shapiro, chairman of Sonicon, a 438 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: dominant force and international of bears advising to the international community. 439 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: I gotta dig in here because you were a staffer 440 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: for Senator Daniel Patrick moynihan, the Democrat from New York, 441 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: and take us behind the scenes when you're dealing with 442 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: the White House and dealing with senators of all different 443 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: types of personalities. You are as wonky and as well 444 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: educated as they come. You've been, I mean you've been, 445 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: You've gone to the heart. You're a fellow of Harvard, 446 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: You've I mean, you've been around. But would take us 447 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: like behind the scenes of like how you brief a 448 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 1: president on really dense and some would say boring economic information. 449 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: I don't think it boring, but somewhat Well, it depends 450 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: who the president is, you know. The I was lucky, 451 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: uh Bill Clinton believed that he could use every bit 452 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: of information that anybody would give him, and so he 453 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: wanted he was a sponge for information. And then he 454 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: would synthesize it, so he wanted to know all these things. Um. 455 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: President Obama was much more focused, and he was very 456 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: he is very interested in facts and analysis, but not 457 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: that go beyond the lane that he's focused on, that 458 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: that moment um. But the fact is they're both um 459 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: people who respect expertise, respect data, respect science. I imagine 460 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: advising the current president's a lot different. Well, we're gonna 461 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna ask one of those economic advisors tomorrow when 462 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: Stephen Moore is on the program. President Trump has nominated 463 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: him to the FED Board. So speaking of populism and politics, 464 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: former Vice President Joe Biden offered no apology for the 465 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: touching allegations, but vows to change his style. I'm gonna 466 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: read now by my colleague Jennifer Epstein what she's written 467 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: for the Bloomberg terminal. Former Vice President Joe Biden, faced 468 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: with accusations from several women that he has made them 469 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: uncomfortable with unwanted physical contact, said he understood that social 470 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: norms have changed and that he needs to be more 471 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: respectful of the personal space of others. Take a listen 472 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: to what former Vice President Joe Biden tweeted out in 473 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: a video earlier this afternoon. And I've never thought of 474 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: politics was cold and an aseptic. I've always thought it 475 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: about connecting with people. And I said, shaking hands, hands 476 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: on the shoulder, a hug, encouragement, and now and now 477 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: it's all about taking selfies together. You know, social norms 478 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: have begun to change, They've shifted, and the boundaries of 479 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: protecting personal space have been reset. And I get it. 480 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: I get it. That was former Vice President Joe Biden 481 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: delivering a two minute web video posted Wednesday afternoon. President Trump, well, 482 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: he weighed in on all of this. Uh take a 483 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: listen to what he had to say at the National 484 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: at a Republican gathering last evening when he was well 485 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: the National Republican Congressional Committees annual spring dinner the other night. 486 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: Here's here's President Trump. People tell me two years, what 487 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: do you think? One week? Sir? I said, generals, I 488 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: felt like Joe bi or Maddie Doppler President Trump having 489 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: fun with the Democratic in fighting. Of course, why wouldn't 490 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: he now? I think, uh, Vice President Biden's video non 491 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: apology today was very authentic Biden. I think that he 492 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: is trying to make amends for having the audacity to 493 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: be a white man growing up in the last several 494 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: decades in this country and now times have changed. The 495 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: problem that he has that Democrats have erected a standard 496 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: that makes it impossible to be Joe Biden and not 497 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: have to apologize for exactly what makes Joe Biden Joe 498 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: Biden the fact that he is authentic and likes to 499 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: make politics personal and he acts the way that he 500 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: acts because that's how he relates to people. But that 501 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: certainly stands and start contrast the way Democrats have been 502 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: willing to tolerate behavior, particularly in this new era of 503 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 1: of me too allegations and trying to be respectful of 504 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: any kind of inappropriate behavior on the behalf of Menuh. Well, 505 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: let's see the Democratic primary voters will decide whether Joe 506 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: has been over the line, whether he's two out of 507 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: touch or not. UM. I think the president, however, needs 508 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: to be very careful with this issue. This is a 509 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: man who paid off porn stars who he had affairs with, 510 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: so touch, so rubbing someone's shoulders are a long way 511 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: from the accusations against the president. But to your point, 512 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: the question here is whether or not Democrat primary voters 513 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: care enough about this issue that has been one of 514 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: the center points of a lot of Democrat fundraising and 515 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: certainly the propulsion behind Christian Jellabrand's campaign, Whether they care 516 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: enough about that to make that the thing they vote on, 517 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: or if they want to elect someone who could beat 518 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: President Trump and Joe Biden certainly would give the president 519 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: run for his money. I always remember a supporter of 520 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: candidate Donald Trump who sets to me a fascinating comment 521 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: which was, I don't have Twitter. I'm paraphrasing, I don't 522 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: have Twitter, but I see on the news what the 523 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: president tweets. And we got to remember on both sides 524 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: of the aisle, there are most voters who don't have Twitter. 525 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: Should he get into the race, You've got under like 526 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: two minutes, Robert Shapiro, what what type of candidate with 527 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: the former Vice president b who who would he appeal to? Um? 528 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: I think he appeals to center and center left Democrats, 529 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: who I personally think our majority of the primary electorate. Uh. 530 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: And I think he will appeal to centrists and center 531 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: left in the general election, who I think are a 532 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: majority of the country. Um. But the question is does 533 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: he get the chance, and that depends on how good 534 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: his messages, on how good his organization is, um on 535 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: whether he meets the kind of unarticulated needs of the voters. 536 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: You know a lot of people say that's O'Rourke's talent 537 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: or mayor pezz uh. Yeah. I just think that Biden 538 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: would have a good chance in the general. He's got 539 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: no chance in this primary because of the way the 540 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: rest of the crowd is running. Everyone who's made a 541 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: name for himself, who's posted up big fundraising numbers, has 542 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: gone far, far left, and I'm not sure that the 543 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: audience exists then for Biden to be able to break 544 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: through some of that, We're gonna have to leave it there. 545 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,439 Speaker 1: I want to thank Maddie Doubler. I want to thank 546 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: Robert Shapiro, chairman of Sonic Con, and that does it 547 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: for me. I'm Kevin surreally appreciate our guests. Hopefully they'll 548 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: both come back. Who are listening to Bloomberg