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Speaker 1: School of Humans.

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Speaker 2: On January seventeenth, twenty twenty three, fifty three year old

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Speaker 2: William Vick was recovering at home in Clarksville, Arkansas. William

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Speaker 2: was in good health. He loved making videos for his

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Speaker 2: YouTube channel. I've been watching them, and obviously William got

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Speaker 2: a lot of joy from making short films with his

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Speaker 2: granddaughter and also riffing on everything from insomnia to pillar reviews,

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Speaker 2: and even interviewing members of law enforcement about infamous Arkansas

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Speaker 2: murder cases. It seems like William may have been a

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Speaker 2: true crime fan. In these videos, William looks fit, healthy,

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Speaker 2: and younger than his fifty three years. I feel like

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Speaker 2: if I had known him in life, we would have

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Speaker 2: been friends. William had gone in for a ton selectomy

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Speaker 2: operation the week before. Apparently he had been experiencing some complications.

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Speaker 2: He had texted his daughter Ashley to say that he

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Speaker 2: believed that something inside him was broken and that he

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Speaker 2: was throwing up a large amount of blood in the sink.

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Speaker 2: Ashley was worried. She told her dad this did not

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Speaker 2: seem normal to her. She encouraged him to go see

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Speaker 2: the doctor, but William's wife, Lareinda, had worked as an

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Speaker 2: ear nurse, and Ashley believed that her stepmother was taking

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Speaker 2: care of her father. Lrenda's mother, Martha MacLean, was also around.

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Speaker 2: She lived in a separate structure on William and Lorenda's property,

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Speaker 2: right behind their house. A lot of what we know

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Speaker 2: is pieced together after the fact from coroner's reports and

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Speaker 2: case notes. We do know that at eleven twenty two,

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Speaker 2: the Johnson County Deputy Coroner, Dave Cogan, arrived at nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty four County Road responding to an unexpected death. He

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Speaker 2: spoke to Lorenda. According to the coroner's report, she told

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Speaker 2: the deputy corner that she had been staying in a

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Speaker 2: separate room from her husband because she had been sick

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Speaker 2: recently and was worried about COVID. The deputy coroner noted

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Speaker 2: that William was already in full rigor mortis, meaning that

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Speaker 2: he had been dead and lying on that floor for

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Speaker 2: a long time. William Vick was fifty three years old.

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Speaker 2: He went in for what was supposed to be a

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Speaker 2: routine operation, and a few days later he was dead.

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Speaker 2: And this was just the beginning of an investigation that

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Speaker 2: involves charges of insurance fraud. Two mysterious deaths and a

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Speaker 2: family torn apart. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five

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Speaker 2: years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've

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Speaker 2: learned that there's no such thing as a small town

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Speaker 2: where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages

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Speaker 2: from people all around the country asking for help with

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Speaker 2: an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities.

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Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my

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Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us

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Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight

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Speaker 2: seven four four six ' one four or five. That's

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Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six one four or five,

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Speaker 2: or you can send us a message on Instagram at

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Speaker 2: Helen gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. The crime

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Speaker 2: scene was not investigated by law enforcement, just the corner,

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Speaker 2: and the report reads that the reason for reporting is

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Speaker 2: natural or sudden death. The coroner's investigator noted that Lorenda

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Speaker 2: had not called nine to one one or the police. Instead,

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Speaker 2: she called the coroner's office directly. Pamela is the corner,

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Speaker 2: Pamela wrote, and I'm quoting the report directly here she

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Speaker 2: meaning Lrenda was an er nurse here in Clarksville at

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Speaker 2: one time, and I believe her to be a nurse

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Speaker 2: at a facility in Pope or Yale County. Now this

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Speaker 2: fact might mean that she is familiar with us as coroners,

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Speaker 2: but she would also know from working IRIR that our

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Speaker 2: protocol is to call nine to one one or the

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Speaker 2: Sheriff's office or a dispatch. The coroner number is not

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Speaker 2: easily found for the normal citizen, but it is not

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Speaker 2: impossible to get. It is not given out to the

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Speaker 2: public by law enforcement or medical personnel. It would not

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Speaker 2: be the obvious or easiest action to take when you

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Speaker 2: find your spouse prone on the bedroom floor. It would, however,

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Speaker 2: be something the average citizen might do to avoid having

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Speaker 2: law enforcement in their home. The report indicates that the

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Speaker 2: deputy coroner found Larinda reaching out to the coroner directly

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Speaker 2: a bit odd because Lrenda was a nurse. The report

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Speaker 2: said they felt that her normal reaction should be to

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Speaker 2: call nine one one, even if it was obvious that

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Speaker 2: her husband was dead. The sheriff's investigators in Johnson County

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Speaker 2: began looking into William Vick's life and asking questions about

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Speaker 2: his relationships, and they were asking about other things, including

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Speaker 2: life insurance policies that William's brother Ted and his daughter

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Speaker 2: Ashley say had been taken out in the year before

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Speaker 2: his death, and the policies totaled eight hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars. William Earl Vick was born on August eighth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine, in Russellville, Arkansas. He had one son,

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Speaker 2: also named William, who will refer to as will and

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Speaker 2: a daughter, Ashley. He also had two step sons who

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Speaker 2: were Larenda's sons from a previous relationship. According to his obituary,

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Speaker 2: Lorenda's sons live in Mississippi, while William's daughter, Ashley lives

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Speaker 2: in Russellville. Will also lives in Arkansas. William was married

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Speaker 2: to Jacinda, Ashley and Will's mother, for eighteen years. They

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Speaker 2: divorced around two thousand and nine. William met Lareinda in

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Speaker 2: the early part of twenty eleven, and then a few

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Speaker 2: months later they were married. As an adult, William worked

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Speaker 2: several different jobs. According to his brother Ted, William was

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Speaker 2: a personal trainer in Jim's for a while. He also

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Speaker 2: did some work in law enforcement. We talked to Ted

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Speaker 2: on the phone.

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Speaker 3: So he was the personal trainer for a long time

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Speaker 3: on gyms and stuff like that, and then he was

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Speaker 3: a deputy or the Johnson County Sheriff's Department for a

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Speaker 3: little while, and then he went over to the university

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Speaker 3: in Clarksville. I think he was actually working for an attorney,

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Speaker 3: and they never really said what he did. I think

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Speaker 3: he did like private investigator stuff for him and kind

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Speaker 3: of ran down leads for him and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: But he was going back to work for the Jonathan

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Speaker 3: County Sheriff's Department just in about a week a week,

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Speaker 3: you know, after he murdered. He had already put his

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Speaker 3: application in, it was accepted, and he was going to

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Speaker 3: go up and be a bailiff in the courthouse.

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Speaker 2: Since William married Larinda, both Ted and William's daughter Ashley

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Speaker 2: say that their relationship with William suffered. Four years before

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Speaker 2: William's death, Ted said that he discovered that money was

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Speaker 2: missing from their parents' bank account, an account that Ted

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Speaker 2: claimed William had access to. Ted is very transparent about

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Speaker 2: the fact that, due to this rift over their parents'

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Speaker 2: money and William's alleged access to it, that they had

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Speaker 2: not spoken in about four years. At the time of

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Speaker 2: William's death, Ted said that he found bank records, records

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Speaker 2: that showed that Lrenda was allegedly using a debit card

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Speaker 2: that was linked to his parents' account. According to Ted,

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Speaker 2: she appeared to be using it to buy gas and clothing.

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Speaker 2: This turned into a family confrontation, but despite this, Ted

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Speaker 2: said that he loved William. We also talked to Ashley,

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Speaker 2: William's daughter, and she said that she was always close

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Speaker 2: to her dad growing up.

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Speaker 1: He got me how to time my shoes. My parents

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Speaker 1: worked all the time, so they worked opposite shifts a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of the time.

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Speaker 1: I think he worked nice when I was learning that stuff,

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Speaker 1: so he taught me that during the day.

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Speaker 2: William was with Ashley and William Junior's mother for eighteen years,

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Speaker 2: and Ashley said that their divorce was tough and they

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Speaker 2: went through a lot, but that they loved each other

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Speaker 2: and always had love for each other even after they

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Speaker 2: split up. But after Larenda came into the picture, ash

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Speaker 2: said that there was tension between her and her stepmother.

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Speaker 2: Ashley said that Lareinda did not like her. She said

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Speaker 2: that because of that, she saw her father less and.

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Speaker 1: Less unless she was at work, then he would call

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Speaker 1: me or if he was going to the store for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason. You know, he would talk to me then

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Speaker 1: and we would text back and forth occasionally, of course,

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Speaker 1: but she said I was a full brat, even though

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Speaker 1: my parents did not have money. They are not rich people.

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Speaker 1: But she would tell me that I was a bull brat,

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Speaker 1: I was a bitch, and all kinds of things she

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Speaker 1: would say to my face end behind my back. Most

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Speaker 1: all of it was behind my back, but you know,

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Speaker 1: family member's shock.

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Speaker 2: During the last year of William's life, Ashley said that

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Speaker 2: they started to get closer again. It seemed like listening

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Speaker 2: to her talk that she finally felt like she had

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Speaker 2: her father back.

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Speaker 1: We would go to lunch together every week. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: he just got a different job. I guess where he

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Speaker 1: was able to do that. He was coming to rest

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Speaker 1: of Ville once a week where I lived, and so

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Speaker 1: he was able to go to lunch with me every week.

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Speaker 1: But she would always call all we were at lunch

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Speaker 1: together and it was good. I mean, I felt like

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Speaker 1: the last two year of his life as an adult,

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Speaker 1: we were closest and I would go over there. She

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Speaker 1: worked a lot, she traveled. He's a traveling nurse, so

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Speaker 1: when she was out of town, me and my three

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Speaker 1: kids would go over there a lot and go hiking,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he had some land and a pond

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Speaker 1: that we'd go over there and fish and just just

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Speaker 1: hang out with him generally.

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Speaker 2: Ashley said that her brother Will was living with Lrenda

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Speaker 2: and their father, but just a few days before her

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Speaker 2: father died, she said Lreinda pressured her father to get

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Speaker 2: Will to move out.

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Speaker 1: And then she was very adamant about getting him to

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Speaker 1: move out. She wanted him to move out. She was

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Speaker 1: pressuring him, pressuring my dad to kick my brother out,

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Speaker 1: and my brother just finally hadn't said in us, and

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Speaker 1: he just moved out. And my dad after that happened

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Speaker 1: and called me. I never heard of fan cry, and

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Speaker 1: he cried and said how he should not have let

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Speaker 1: Lareinda treat my brother that way.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: My dad was like such a strong person.

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Speaker 2: Now I should say that we have contacted Larinda for comment.

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Speaker 2: She said she had no comment, and she referred us

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Speaker 2: to her lawyer, who we have reached out to. My

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Speaker 2: point is we are only hearing one side of the

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Speaker 2: story here, and it's not abnormal for new wives to

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Speaker 2: have conflicts with children, and even in some cases for

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Speaker 2: adult children to blame their stepmother for conflicts with their father,

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Speaker 2: but Ashley claims that Lorenda has tried to paint a

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Speaker 2: picture of her father William, as being abusive in some way,

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Speaker 2: something that she says is absolutely not true.

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Speaker 1: My parents had up and downs. But Arenda, he's trying

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Speaker 1: to put this narrative out there now, like my dad

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Speaker 1: was this terrible person. But she hasn't been screaming at

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Speaker 1: the past year and a half. If anything, I saw

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Speaker 1: the emotional abuse from her end because of how she

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Speaker 1: treated me and how he wasn't allowed to talk to

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Speaker 1: me when she was around. What kind of woman doesn't

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Speaker 1: want a man talking to his children. I thinks it's

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Speaker 1: weird to talk to your daughter, that you were too close.

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Speaker 4: It's true, child.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I don't know she did. I feel

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Speaker 1: like she was trying to control him and he finally

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Speaker 1: had an as and she isn't that That is my

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Speaker 1: personal opinion.

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Speaker 2: Ashley said she was surprised when, just a few weeks

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Speaker 2: before her father died, he talked to her about having

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Speaker 2: a life insurance policy. It turned out that he had

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Speaker 2: taken out a policy with Farmers for five hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars and that in the event of his death, Lareinda

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Speaker 2: would receive fifty percent and each of his children would

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Speaker 2: receive twenty five percent. Now we're going to get a

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Speaker 2: lot more into the intricacies of the insurance policies in

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Speaker 2: next week's episode, but for now, I'll say this is

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Speaker 2: all only one insurance policy. It turns out that there

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Speaker 2: was more than one.

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Speaker 1: So two weeks before he passed, he was talking to

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Speaker 1: me about it, saying, jokingly saying, he's worth more dead

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Speaker 1: than he is alive because his life insurance policy is

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Speaker 1: so much, and he mentioned it. He was very adamant.

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Speaker 1: You know when that gets half fifty percent, but you

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Speaker 1: and your brother each get twenty five percent. I think

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Speaker 1: the most of my dad ever said on me for

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Speaker 1: a holiday was he bought me tennis shoes.

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Speaker 2: But William was only fifty three years old and for

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Speaker 2: the most part in great health. Ted brought this up

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Speaker 2: when we talked to him as well. He said that

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Speaker 2: even though he was not involved in his brother's life

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Speaker 2: at the time, when William took out this latest insurance policy,

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Speaker 2: he felt that the amount was excessive given William's job

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Speaker 2: history and earning potential.

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Speaker 3: My brother had a life insurance policy through the state

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Speaker 3: farm and they couldn't even afford to pay that, And

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Speaker 3: he had had it for five or six years, and

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Speaker 3: they couldn't afford to pay that monthly payment, so they

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Speaker 3: canceled it. And then all of a sudden, you know,

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Speaker 3: a couple of years later, nothing really changes. They didn't

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Speaker 3: come into any money. She still had the same job,

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Speaker 3: he was still doing the same stuff, and then all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden they can afford to post to a million.

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Speaker 2: William's ton selectomy wasn't an emergency. It was something he

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Speaker 2: had scheduled ahead of time. It was a routine operation,

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Speaker 2: and he was sent home afterwards to recover with a

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Speaker 2: prescription drug called tramadol. Now we don't know exactly when

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Speaker 2: he was prescribed that tramadol. We're assuming he was sent

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Speaker 2: home with it after his operation, but we don't have

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Speaker 2: William's medical records, and we do not have a record

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Speaker 2: of exactly when he got that prescription. So far, we

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Speaker 2: have also been unable to confirm the name of the

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Speaker 2: doctor who performed the ton selectomy. The coroner's report noted

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Speaker 2: that they were still attempting to get in touch with

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Speaker 2: the surgeon who performed the tonsol ectomy, but we don't

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Speaker 2: know if they did. They were also trying to get

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Speaker 2: William's medical records. The report noted that they were provided

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Speaker 2: with some records by Laurinda, but that the records they

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Speaker 2: got were several years old and they were trying to

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Speaker 2: get more recent information. Ashley had lunch with William just

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Speaker 2: a day before his operation on Friday, which again was

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Speaker 2: meant to be totally routine. He called her right before

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Speaker 2: he went into surgery on Friday. She never heard her

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Speaker 2: father's voice again.

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Speaker 1: I was Wednesday, and then Thursday, him and Laurenda went

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Speaker 1: out to eat together for his last meal. He called

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Speaker 1: it before surgery, and then he had surgery on Friday.

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Speaker 1: So that Wednesday, yeah, I mean have passed.

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Speaker 2: After having the operation on Friday, William was sent home.

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Speaker 2: But then her father texted her and told her that

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Speaker 2: he was throwing up blood. Then he sent Ashley a

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Speaker 2: picture of a sink full of blood. Ashley was concerned

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Speaker 2: about her dad. William had just had tom selectomy surgery,

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Speaker 2: and he sent her a photo in it his sink

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Speaker 2: was full of blood.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he had sent me a picture of him

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Speaker 1: throwing up blood. In the sink. It was a lot

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Speaker 1: of blood and I was begging him to take you

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Speaker 1: to the hospital. I even reached out to Lorenda and said,

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Speaker 1: don't you know you're a nurse, don't She didn't you

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Speaker 1: need to go to the hospital, And she said, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know how stubborn your dad is. He doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to go. And I said, you're a nurse, You're his wife.

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Speaker 1: Forced him to go to the hospital. He should not

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Speaker 1: be puking blood.

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Speaker 2: Ashley said that she begged Laurinda to take her father

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Speaker 2: to the hospital. The text messages that ashley next exchange

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Speaker 2: with her father haunt her to this day.

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Speaker 1: I said, don't die on me or I'll be traumatized,

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Speaker 1: and he said, loll okay, I'm well. That was one

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Speaker 1: of her last conversations.

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Speaker 2: Ashley assumed that her dad was getting better that weekend.

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Speaker 2: Next week, Ashley said she got a call the completely

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Speaker 2: shocked her. Someone told her that her father was dead

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Speaker 2: William and Dad on Tuesday. Ashley didn't find out until Thursday,

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Speaker 2: and she said that that call did not come from Lorenda.

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Speaker 1: She did not inform me at all. Actually, she did

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Speaker 1: not tell me he passed. I had to find out

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Speaker 1: from somebody else who called me and said, I'm so

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Speaker 1: sorry to hear about your dad, and I said, I've

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Speaker 1: know ide you were talking about. And they were obviously confused,

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Speaker 1: and so I tried to call my dad and of

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Speaker 1: course he didn't answer his phone, and then I called

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Speaker 1: Lorenda and I was like, what's going on? She said,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just didn't know how to tell you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, what do you mean what You

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Speaker 1: didn't know how to tell me what? And she was like,

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Speaker 1: he didn't make it. And I was like, what what

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Speaker 1: do you talk about? What do you mean he didn't

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Speaker 1: make it? And then I just hung up on her

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Speaker 1: because I was like, my first instinct was that she

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Speaker 1: did something to him, But then you think, that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't happen to me, That doesn't happen to normal people.

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Speaker 4: I thought, why would that happen? Things like this don't

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Speaker 4: happen in real life.

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Speaker 1: This is things you see on TV, And then of

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Speaker 1: course I did.

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Speaker 2: Ashley said that a few days later, she mentioned the

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Speaker 2: life insurance policy, the one that she said her father

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Speaker 2: had been talking to her about. She said that Lorenda

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Speaker 2: told her she hadn't even started thinking about life insurance policies,

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Speaker 2: but Ashley insists that she later found out that that

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Speaker 2: wasn't the case.

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Speaker 1: She said, well, let's just thought something I'm even thinking

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Speaker 1: about or worrying about, and then come to find out

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Speaker 1: she asked about it the next I mean the next

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Speaker 1: day after him passing, before she even I knew he passed,

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Speaker 1: she was already asking about the life insurance. So that

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Speaker 1: was just something she whied about.

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Speaker 2: William Vick was cremated, which Ashley said she knew her

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Speaker 2: father wanted. But Ashley said that she was hurt when

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Speaker 2: Lorenda and her children spread her father's ashes without her.

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Speaker 1: He was only cremated, He never had services. He said

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Speaker 1: that was not something he wanted. I'm sure he would

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Speaker 1: have had a visitation, but she said, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was not something he wanted. He wanted to be cremated,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't know that he didn't want to be cremated.

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Speaker 1: We got his ashes A while later. I said, I'm

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Speaker 1: not ready for that yet, can we can? We just

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Speaker 1: pulled off and she just did.

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Speaker 4: It with her kids. She and her kids spread his

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Speaker 4: ashes without me or my brothers. So all I have

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Speaker 4: is the little jar, the heart shaped jar. She'd given me,

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Speaker 4: and so I ended up giving my brothers some of

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Speaker 4: those ashes.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry she didn't want to wait, he didn't.

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Speaker 4: She just wanted to get rid of dashes. Yeah, she could,

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Speaker 4: but it was not very long after we got his ashes.

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Speaker 4: But I just wasn't ready to spreads with yours, but

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Speaker 4: she was. They're legally hers.

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Speaker 2: So Ashley talked about her father's sense of humor. William

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Speaker 2: Vick had a YouTube channel, and in one of those videos,

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Speaker 2: the one I mentioned earlier and actually the last one

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Speaker 2: he posted, he was talking about true crime the Ronald

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Speaker 2: Gene Simmons case. For the thirty fifth anniversary of the murders,

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Speaker 2: William interviewed the lead investigator on the case, named Ray Caldwell.

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Speaker 2: William also made short films about a dystopian future, and

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Speaker 2: in some of his videos he talked about his insomnia

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Speaker 2: and crack jokes. A lot of his riffs are straight

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Speaker 2: to camera, wearing an Arkansas baseball cap and smiling.

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Speaker 1: Everybody that's seen his videos and have heard my tackling

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Speaker 1: laugh think we laughed just alike, which is not I'm

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Speaker 1: getting used to laugh that way. I don't know what,

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Speaker 1: I don't know my laugh, but it's just when my

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00:20:59,165 --> 00:21:01,485
Speaker 1: laugh really hard at some chef like his funny hyena

365
00:21:01,565 --> 00:21:04,925
Speaker 1: laugh that he has, but a man who would crack

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Speaker 1: each other up.

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Speaker 2: At first, Ashley said she was somewhat numb after her

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Speaker 2: father passed away, but it wasn't long before she began

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Speaker 2: to notice things that she believed did not add up.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that bothered her the most was

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Speaker 2: realizing that Lorenda had not called nine one one, but

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Speaker 2: instead called the coroner directly.

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Speaker 1: She was like, well, I'm a nurse. I knew he

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Speaker 1: was dead, okay, but you were a nurse and you

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Speaker 1: didn't take up to the hospital when he was kicking blood.

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Speaker 1: But you're a nurse enough to know that he was dead.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in my panic, if even if I was

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Speaker 1: a nurse and my bouse was dead on the ground,

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Speaker 1: my first thought would be nine to one one, not

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Speaker 1: let me google the coroner and call them directly.

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Speaker 2: Then there was the fact that her father's body was

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Speaker 2: already in full rigor mortis. Lorenda said she had not

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Speaker 2: come in to check on William in over ten hours.

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Speaker 2: Ashley wondered why, if he was sick, if he had

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Speaker 2: been coughing up blood, why Lorenda would not take him

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Speaker 2: to the hospital. Lorenda told the coroners investigator that William

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00:22:06,645 --> 00:22:09,885
Speaker 2: had high cholesterol and may have heart disease, but according

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Speaker 2: to the medical examiner's report, there was no sign of

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Speaker 2: heart disease. The coroner also noted there was no blood

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00:22:16,285 --> 00:22:19,445
Speaker 2: on William's bedroom floor, which they looked for because he

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00:22:19,525 --> 00:22:23,045
Speaker 2: had been vomiting blood days earlier. When they began a

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Speaker 2: toxicology screen, they did find traces of drugs in William's system.

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Speaker 2: Post mortan blood testing showed positive for tramadol, the prescription medicine,

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Speaker 2: but also for lethal levels of lurazapam and massive quantities

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Speaker 2: of morphine and codeine. The cause of death was listed

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Speaker 2: as combined mixed prescription and illicit drug toxicity. William Vick

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00:22:46,165 --> 00:22:48,925
Speaker 2: was not suicidal. He was in good spirits. He was

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Speaker 2: happy about life, and other than a routine operation, he

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00:22:52,285 --> 00:22:56,965
Speaker 2: really had absolutely nothing physically wrong with him. William's family

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Speaker 2: did not believe that he had died of some sort

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00:22:59,005 --> 00:23:03,005
Speaker 2: of accident. They believed that someone killed him, and it

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00:23:03,045 --> 00:23:06,485
Speaker 2: seems like they were right because on jam Anyuary twenty third,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, six days after William was found dead

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00:23:10,205 --> 00:23:15,005
Speaker 2: on the bedroom floor police found a murder confession. Someone

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00:23:15,125 --> 00:23:18,805
Speaker 2: claimed that they tampered with William's medication and injected him

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00:23:18,885 --> 00:23:22,525
Speaker 2: with another drug. But the confession didn't come from Mirenda.

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00:23:23,125 --> 00:23:27,605
Speaker 2: It was written by her mother, Martha MacLean, who everyone

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00:23:27,725 --> 00:23:30,805
Speaker 2: believed was incredibly frail, and he was living in a

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00:23:30,845 --> 00:23:35,125
Speaker 2: separate structure on their property. Officers had been doing a

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00:23:35,125 --> 00:23:38,725
Speaker 2: welfare check on Martha when they found her struggling to

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Speaker 2: breathe with morphine and la razepan bottles scattered around her.

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Speaker 2: She had a handwritten note next to the bed.

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Speaker 1: I want to bust this for my dad. Obviously who

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Speaker 1: would have But it takes a lot out of me.

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 1: I get panic attacks. I just know I I just

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Speaker 1: get panic attacks. Sometimes I random and then sometimes you

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Speaker 1: know it's fard. Some days I'm okay. Like some days

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Speaker 1: I can talk about it and just find like it's

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Speaker 1: not me, like it's not my life. I can detach

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Speaker 1: from it, associate from it. Yet another time, Sorry can't

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Speaker 1: because it is my last.

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Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen

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Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans

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00:24:23,245 --> 00:24:26,605
Speaker 2: and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine

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00:24:26,605 --> 00:24:30,605
Speaker 2: Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts and Miranda Hawkins. Special

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00:24:30,645 --> 00:24:33,965
Speaker 2: thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Noah Camera

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Speaker 2: mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by

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Speaker 2: Ben Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and

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00:24:41,525 --> 00:24:45,245
Speaker 2: Else Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing

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00:24:45,285 --> 00:24:48,325
Speaker 2: to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: If you are interested in seeing documents and materials from

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Speaker 2: the case, you can follow the show on Instagram at

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Speaker 2: Helen Gone Pott. If you have a case you'd like

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Speaker 2: me and my team to look into, you can reach

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Speaker 2: out to us at our Helen Gone Murder line at

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Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six one four five

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Speaker 2: That six seven eight seven four four six one four

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Speaker 2: five

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Speaker 3: School of Humans