WEBVTT - Microsoft, Labor Unions and OpenAI 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:05.720 From Marhart where Innovation, Money and power Collie in Silicon 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:06.720 Vallet NBN. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:11.120 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hide and Ed Lodlove. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.960 I'm Caroline Heyde of Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York, 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.080 and I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:31.880 This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.440 Coming up. Microsoft and labor Unions. They form a historic 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.440 alliance on artificial intelligence. While the software giant's president says 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.080 there's no guarantee that AI won't displace jobs, will break 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.080 down the announcement, and. 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:49.159 As global regulators examine Microsoft's thirteen billion dollar investment in 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.479 Open AI, the company has a simple response, it doesn't 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.120 own a stake. Will discuss the antitrust concern SLUS. 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.080 The EU reaches a preliminary deal in what's seen as 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.520 a key part of the word well's first comprehensive I 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.360 guessed it artificial intelligence regulation. We'll discuss that and so 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:06.840 much more throughout the hour. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.120 The big piece of news is Microsoft. Actually there were 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.920 two pieces of news. Is news news On the one hand, 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.600 this kind of relationship with afl CIO, a broad agreement 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.640 with unions to cooperate on artificial intelligence. The other more 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.200 specific piece of news is a case study involving a 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.600 few hundred staff and a very specific video games unit 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:31.160 where AI has been brought into the collective bargaining agreement. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.320 I want to bring in Bloomberg's Jackie Davlos. She is 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.720 the host of AIRL on Bloomberg. Let's start with the 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.800 video game unit. Tell us the details of what happened overnight. 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:47.600 Well, the Communication Workers of America basically agreed with Microsoft 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.680 that they will be allowed to incorporate some AI language 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.080 into their collective bargaining agreement. 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.360 And that move was really one. 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.360 Of the first where you saw Microsoft agreeing to have 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.960 some language in those contracts. And that goes hand in 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.320 hand with that broader announcement that we saw today in 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:11.000 collaboration with afl CIO. Now, many people may not realize 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:16.600 that this labor organization encompasses over twelve point five million workers. 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:21.959 That includes other affiliated unions like SAGAFTERRA, like the Writers Guilled, 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.920 the Teachers' Union. So a real broad based organization coming 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:32.320 together with Microsoft in one of the first partnerships of 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.960 its kind that is tackling how to handle artificial intelligence 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.639 impact on workers, what they can do to both come 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.000 to the table and say where are workers being impact 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:45.840 and how can we best prepare them? 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.119 And to that end, we had, of course, President of Microsoft, 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.720 Brad Smith saying, like, look, honestly, I cannot say that 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:57.639 Joels won't be impacted and indeed become obsolete due to AI. 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.440 How straight toolking. We'll see at the announcement Jackie. 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.040 He was very candid because you had a room full 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.079 of people who have serious questions. You had teachers who 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.880 were wondering, how is this going to impact my students? 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:16.320 Randy Weingarten, the president of the American Federation of Teachers, sorry, 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:22.360 the Teachers' Union basically also they're in collaboration with Microsoft, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.840 saying we want to understand how the company is going 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:29.680 to help us understand what artificial intelligence is doing to 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.080 our teachers, to our students, what can we do to 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.600 prepare them? And two things came out of this partnership. 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.920 The first being you have Microsoft agreeing to basically host 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:43.120 some training sessions for workers across the board. How is 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.160 artificial intelligence being developed? 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:46.680 How can it affect you? 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.600 Basically kind of giving them the AI one oh one 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.680 on what the technology is. The next being how can 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.040 we incorporate your feedback into the room where developers are 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.520 creating this technology. And the third is where can we 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.720 team up on policy proposals. They said they want to 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.600 quote join forces on putting forth legislation. When you have 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.760 members of the Senate in Congress basically coming together and saying, well, 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.840 we're accepting suggestions and the two want to create an 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:18.240 alliance of sorts to put together some proposals that are 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.080 the best interest of workers. Now, the other thing is 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.600 that came out of this is basically saying, look, we 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:29.640 Microsoft understand that the collective bargaining process is important and 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.040 we don't want to stand in the way of that. 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:35.920 And so the agreement also includes kind of this neutrality template, 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.320 basically terms that can say we're not going to stand 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:43.279 in the way of or people organizing. And that's a 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.239 big step coming from a technology company. It really puts 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.920 the spotlight on other companies like Amazon, which have not 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.120 taken such a friendly approach when it comes to their 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:53.160 workers organizing. 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.960 Great context, Jackie Davilos, thank you so much on the 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.320 world when it comes to Microsoft and the Laby unions. 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.279 But meanwhile, Smith and Microsoft in general, they've been busy 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.000 because of course having to defend that relationship with open 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:06.960 Ai as well. It's been drawing a lot of scrutiny 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.520 from global regulators, and the software giant has a simple 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.240 argument when it comes to its investment in open Ai, 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.240 and it hopes it will resonate with anti trust officials 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.000 the messages it doesn't own a traditional stake in the 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.520 startup with US. Now to discuss is Rebecca Allensworth, professor 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.440 at Vanderbilt University Law School, And all of this comes 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.160 about from Friday. We understand first the UK the CMA, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:35.000 they're wanting to start sort of requesting people's input as 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:39.039 to whether or not de facto Microsoft controls open Ai 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.800 more than would be well seen on the surface of things. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.400 Then we have the UK, as the US as well 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:50.120 regulators here looking into the relationship more broadly. From your perspective, 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:54.640 from a legal perspective, how strong is the argument that 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.320 Microsoft is some way acquired open Ai. 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.000 I think we don't know the answer to that question 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.440 because we don't know the terms of that deal. I mean, 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.560 you'll notice that he said traditional steak. So what I 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.279 want to know and I think what the FTC would 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.560 want to know, and the CMA is well in what 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.800 sense do they have a non traditional steak. There's some 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:17.279 reporting that they have a non voting seat at the table, 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.159 a position on the board. Is that going to be 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.279 a situation where that member says, hey, I'm not voting 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.440 on this, but if you vote for this, then I 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.360 think Microsoft will pull out. That could be seen as 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.159 de facto having some kind of control, and that could 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:33.960 potentially raise antitrust problems. 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:36.520 So here's what we know about the structure. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:40.360 Based on Boobog's reporting, the thirteen billion dollars to date 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.160 did not equate to taking an equity investment. According to 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:49.200 Boonbo's reporting, Rebecca, it was that Microsoft would derive half 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.440 of the profits open Ai generates up into a capped 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:57.760 limit due to its closed profit model. And that is 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.960 the argument that Microsoft's saying it is not a state 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.040 because it was not an investment in return for equity. 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.960 The question is do regulators or will regulators by that. 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.040 I think it's an open question that we don't really 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.640 know the answer to. So anti trust law is not 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:18.200 well positioned to challenge investments. It actually is specifically said 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:22.160 in the Clayton Act that acquisitions that are merely an 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.800 investment essentially that don't involve any decision making authority are 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.240 not covered by that statute. And likewise, if we're going 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.200 to talk about Section one of the Sherman Act or 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.800 Section two of the Sherman Acts, other ways of challenging 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.960 it under anti trust laws, I think the regulators would 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.120 have to see this as some sort of merging of 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:44.280 decision making authority, and I just don't think that we know. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.960 At the same time, the antrust laws are pretty flexible 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.239 about determining whether or not there is some de facto 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.600 decision making authority, so this won't be decided merely by 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.400 the corporate form. This will be a fact intensive inquiry 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.040 and the facts I think we don't have yet. 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.480 When we have to. Therefore, try not to speculate on facts, 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.800 but instead look at really what legal groundings. The FTC 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:12.200 has pursued a number of well cases of late where 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.240 ultimately they haven't won out, but they've been trying to 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.760 sort of swing the perception of where regulators should start 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.040 to get involved, what really consumer protection looks like. Over 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.160 in the UK, we know the CMA sort of backed 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.920 off from its original view of Microsoft and activision in 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.920 but did force change on that particular deal. What do 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.360 you think ultimately is trying to be got across here? 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.080 Are they worrying about some sort of ultimate monopolization that 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.439 could go into the world of artificial intelligence, and how 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:38.959 do they get ahead of that curve? 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.520 I think that's right, and I think the concern here is, 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.640 like so many of the FTC's actions happening right now, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:50.559 which is a major deep pockets competitor, one might say 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.839 a monopolist, although I think in this case that's a 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.559 little bit of problematic. Holding an input that everybody needs 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:02.920 to effectively compete, and that input here is the GPT model, 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.160 and the idea would be this is going to become 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.679 essential to compete in so many markets actually, and if 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:13.120 it's controlled by one single entity that has the power 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.040 to bring it to market and can exclude other people 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.959 who might compete, that could be really bad for competition. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.040 As you point out, though, that theory of competition, which 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.280 is not about head to head, it's not about Microsoft 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.480 competes with the chat GPT. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:28.960 Product right now head to head. 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.880 That makes it a little bit of a different type 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.280 of challenge than the antitrust laws have been used to 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.319 over the last forty years. It's not precluded by the statute, 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.280 but it is a little bit unorthodox. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.760 How much weight do you think a regulator would give 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.960 to the idea that there are now many companies offering 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.439 similar foundation or large language models. They're not the same 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.040 as GPT, but there are other models out there. 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:56.720 So this is a great. 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.040 Question because this has always been a problem in anti 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.640 trust and what you're talking aout about it's basically market definition. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.160 Is the market the chat GPT model because it is 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:10.160 so different, it is so important, it does not have 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.040 a substitute that we're prepared to call that a market, 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.400 or is the market as I'm sure Microsoft and open 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:20.240 AI will be arguing artificial intelligence, which of course is 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.520 broad and people have been using artificial intelligence, you know, 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.920 for many, many years, and there's a lot of competitors 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.680 within it. The question should be about substitution. Is there 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.800 a substitutable product for open AIS technology? And I think 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.600 that is a pretty good argument that the answer to that. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:36.199 Question is no. 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.640 Oh thanks to Rebecca Allen's work, professor at Vanderbilt Law 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:46.040 School there on potential interrust action against open Microsoft. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.520 Right coming up on the show, European. 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:53.040 Regulators striking a landmark deal to regulate artificial intelligence. We'll 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:57.840 discuss with Ashley Casavan, Managing director at the iapp's AI 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:13.319 Governance Center. That's our conversation to next. This is Bloomberg technology. 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.760 That we lose control of the machines I think to 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:20.360 some extent, and the howser still very much being debated obviously, 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.520 of having the fail safe mechanisms in place that humans 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.360 can override the systems. That's probably the single largest thing 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.560 I think and worry about, is that if the machines 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.600 can be or the algorithms or there was being generated, 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.480 can be developed in such a way that there is 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.840 no fail safe mechanism that it can be overridden by 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:40.240 a human. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:41.720 That's what worries me. 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.640 Those Armed CEO Renee has speaking exclusively to Bloomberg back 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.319 at the end of November about his concerns regarding generative AI. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.040 He shares concerns with European regulators, who over the weekend 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.840 reached a deal to formally regulate the technology. Joining us 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.760 now with more is as Casavan, Managing director of the 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:06.640 International Association of Privacy Professionals AI Governance Center, one of 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:11.400 the largest and most comprehensive resources for global privacy and information. 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.160 There is a lot in this EUAI Act. The top 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.080 lines as I see it, is the acceptable use policy, 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.559 some disclosures about the data. 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:21.600 Used to train models. 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.120 What is your kind of takeaway on the depth of 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.400 how this has been regulated in Europe? 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:32.240 It's quite significant. 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.880 This is definitely a landmark deal that has broad implications, 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:41.120 not just for European companies, but companies all over the world. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.240 I think that the fact that they're really looking to 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:50.800 align with international definitions or following and changing through these 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:55.600 discussions to OECD definitions, indicates just how big of an 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:56.920 impact this will have globally. 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:02.840 The whole difficulty was on one side fostering innovation, on 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.760 the other side, well, protecting the rights of people the user, 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:08.240 and of course this is why what it was a 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.600 thirty seven hours of negotiations that took place. Actually, from 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:16.560 your perspective, does this in any way protect and ultimately 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.719 innovation in Europe because many will worried about some of 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.760 the startup's mistyle for example in France. 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.120 Sure, I think that it's really to be determined how 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.240 this is going to be enforced and the implications. But 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:34.240 I do think that what's been drafted is really what 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.480 we've seen from the dialogues, because we haven't actually seen 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:42.480 the text of the final Act will be left to 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.560 how it's enforced. That said, I do think that really 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:53.360 relying on product safety assurance mechanisms like third party audience 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:59.080 will hopefully provide that balance between innovation for companies and 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.199 then protection of the public. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.920 What's notable, of course, is yes, we've had an EO 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.320 here in the US. Yes we've had much talk of regulation, 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.720 but ultimately this is the first time you get real 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.960 fines being outlined. I mean, look, they only add out 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:13.679 to about thirty five million euros, but that's a lot 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.679 if you're a small company, and indeed it could be 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.640 seven percent of global turnover for big companies. Jerry Breton, 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.760 of course, key negotiator in all of this, trying to 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.560 drive it across the line when it comes to the EU. 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.560 He was talking about basically how much the EU is 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.040 leading here, is it? And how much do you think 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.360 this is going to set the scene for the global 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.600 AI players here, because ultimately it's only open AI that 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:36.720 seems to be affected thus far. 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:39.520 It's a great question. 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.960 It's funny that you're sharing that that post. I guess 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:48.880 is what we're calling tweets now, and the reason why 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.760 is because there's been a lot of conversations in nations 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:53.440 all over the world. 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.000 You mentioned the US's. 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:59.040 Recent AI Executive Order that's really looking to understand the 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:04.320 implications of these systems and drive some good guardrails around 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.960 how to again kind of balance innovation, protect the public, 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.880 but even really think through what different implications of these 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.920 systems are, given that AI is not one specific thing, 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.280 and I think that getting there was a lot of 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.480 countries that wanted to get to the gate first did 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.200 get some regulation out there, and so it's great that 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.880 Europe did that. But I do think that there's actually 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.760 a converging of a lot of these different guard rails 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.560 in different formats all over the world. 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.560 Actually, whether it's at the parliament or commission level in 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:45.440 Europe or Congress here in America, do the people writing 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.880 the rules and the regulation have a deep enough understanding 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:50.800 of what it is that they're regulating. 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:57.560 It's definitely going to be a resource implication in any 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.280 country that's looking to over see some of these rules. 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.320 That said, I don't think that they're doing it alone. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.360 We've seen how there's been a large amount of public 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:13.080 participation in these processes, civil society organizations providing feedback on 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.400 an ongoing basis, companies that are brought to the table 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:22.480 through not just some of this drafting dialogue, but as 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.440 we've seen with some of the voluntary codes that have 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.400 come out and that we're even referenced in this through 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:33.000 in the work from the Commission, the G seven Hiroshima process, 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.840 that those companies are at the table providing inputs, and 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.760 I think we'll start to see that through enforcements. And 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.280 again there's a reliance on standards which are typically developed 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:45.120 by industry. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.840 So I think it's a bit of a misnomer. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.000 To think that it's just going to be relying on 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:53.360 resources provided by the government. 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.880 Public and private relationship one that you know well actually 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.920 of course previously data and digital for the Government of Canada. 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.640 So having to look around the AI and responsible AI 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.359 a long time before all of this. Actually, Kasavan, sorry, 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.320 we thank you so much, Managing director of the iapp's 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:12.399 AI Governance Center. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.760 Time for talking tech and first stuff in the news. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.440 Apple said over the weekend that it shut down third 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:31.000 party applications enabling Android devices to use I Message to 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.280 communicate with iPhone users, citing significant risks to user security 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.560 and privacy, and shares with the South Korean firm wider Planet, 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.760 which uses AI to produce advertising, jumped sixty nine percent 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.000 in two sessions after it said that Squid Games lead 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.480 Star would become its biggest shareholder with three million shares plus. 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.560 TikTok agreed to invest one point five billion dollars to 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.560 combine its shopping businesses with Indonesia's go to group. TikTok 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.320 gets a seventy five percent stay in that combination, which 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.560 will run it shopping features in Indonesia, the company's biggest 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:06.640 online retail market, Carrot. 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.560 And let's talk about e commerce more broadly in the 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.080 globalization of it because a little known PDD or pinto 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.040 duo has been surging in China. Now it's Timu discounts app. 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.880 It's rivaling Amazon and Walmart here in the United States. 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.239 On Bloomberg's latest big take, we take a look at 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.240 how the company's behind the addictive app is actually outpass 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.160 outpacing Jack mars Ali Baba also in terms of market capitalization. 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:32.320 Now it's even earning the celebrity CEO's praise. Bloomberg expensive 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.280 Sofa joins us now for what has become a bit 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.159 of an American addiction too. They might not know that 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.600 PDD is a company behind it, but it feels like 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:41.720 everyone's using Temu. 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.320 Yeah, it's come on into the US by storm in 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.679 a little over a year. Is really starting to gobble 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.040 up spending in market share. It had its big Super 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.440 Bowl advertising blitz back in February, you know, saying shop 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.760 like a billionaire. You can can splurge as if you 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:04.200 have a ton of money, even if you don't. 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:05.920 It's really like. 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:10.560 An online dollar General in your phone, you know, just 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.560 a broad assortment of stuff, very very low prices, and 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.240 then the sacrifice US shoppers have to make is waiting 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:17.080 for delivery time. 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:18.720 So that would be the downside. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.080 You're gonna you're gonna get prices you can't beat anywhere else, 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:22.919 but you're gonna have to you have to wait for 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:24.120 the stuff to come to your doorstep. 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.000 Hey Spencer, what's the threat to your main beat company, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:29.680 Amazon dot Com? 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.520 Well, I think right now that the threat is exactly 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.439 that price sensitivity. Is it going to win some of 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:40.600 the market share from Amazon, especially maybe like a stocking 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.159 stuff from market share Amazon CEO A. D. Jasse has 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.919 given interviews where he says, you know, their customers are 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.200 still being pretty cautious. They're not buying big ticket items. 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.920 They're buying the low cost things. They're buying the consumables. 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.720 That's right where Timu is. You know, most of the 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.560 products are are low cost ten twenty bucks. And then 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.840 they also seem to kind to grab you a little 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.639 more with a social element. They have a lot of 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:04.920 games in the app. If you open it, it could almost 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.159 be like overwhelming and jarring. It's like a like a 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.120 casino in your phone with lots of spinning wheels and 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.200 games about raising fish and farming. So they try to 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.600 kind of suck you in and grab your attention and 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:16.399 not just your money. 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.440 Bloomberg expense is so for a part of the team 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.600 with the big take and all the things findor Duo 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:22.960 and Timu, thank you very much. 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.679 Welcome back to Bluemore Technology. I'm Karen Hide in New 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:34.600 York and. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:35.960 I met Love Low in San Francisco. 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.359 Quick checking in the markets and two stories that have 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.159 been driving moves to start in Europe with Worldline. This 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:43.920 is a fintech company that closed up one point five 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:48.760 percent after Bluebelt, which is basically an activist investor, said 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.200 get rid of the chair and change the board. You'll 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.439 remember Worldline, it was a stock that at the end 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:57.280 of October fell sixty percent in a single day after 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:01.280 it basically dramatically revised its growth for car and everyone said, 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.280 what on earth is going on? Blue Bell saying let's 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:05.720 bring some confidence and trust back to that name in 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.360 the fintech space and calling for those changes, which investors 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.359 responded to positively. The other one is an earning story. 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.879 Oracle is put reporting earnings after the Bell, just a 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.520 big focus on their data center business. It's about a 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.480 third of revenue. But the story is can they get 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.359 access to the high performance GPUs that they need to 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.680 build out data center infrastructure relevant to the AI story 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.320 both on the training and inference side. We have so 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.399 many people on this show, Carr that come on and say, 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:34.960 why are we not talking more about Oracle in the 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:36.959 same context as the other hyperscalers. 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:38.520 They can offer the same thing. 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.160 There's a big addressable market out there for people who 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:45.520 want to train foundation or large language models. Oracle just 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:47.680 needs to build out its infrastructure. 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:47.639 To support that. 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.520 And boy hasn't just AI sucked all the oxygen out 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.280 of this show and likely the entirety of twenty twenty 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:55.320 three when it comes to investment, and let's just go 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.520 from those public market types of investments to the private 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.160 the bench Capital side Green is on today's at VC Spotlight. 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:04.440 He is a founding managing partner of lead Edge Capital 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.240 growth equity firm five billion dollars in assets under management, 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.199 investing across public private tech companies and also looking for 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:12.800 areas of liquidity when it comes to the secondary market. Mitchell, 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.359 I'm interested as to how much you think AI is 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.680 just going to be the play for twenty twenty four, 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.040 whether it's buying on the secondary market or indeed investing 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:21.200