1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Thing from My Heart Radio. South African filmmaker Richard Stanley 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: is hard to define, part anthropologist, part journalist, and part 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: Hollywood outsider, making boundary pushing films. Stanley grew up in 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: apartheid South Africa, shooting tribal dances and rituals, and later 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: filming in war torn Afghanistan, choices that have greatly informed 7 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: his perspective. In the nineties, he wrote and directed the 8 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: film's Hardware and Dust Devil, blending the science fiction and 9 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: horror genres. His next film was the third adaptation of H. G. 10 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: Wells novel The Island of Dr Moreau, a terrifying morality 11 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: play on scientific ethics, starring Marlon Brando and Val Kilmer. 12 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: The troubled production went quickly downhill, and Stanley was removed 13 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: from the project only three days in. The chaos was 14 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: captured in the documentary Lost Soul, The Doomed Journey of 15 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: Richard Stanley's The Island of Dr Moreau. Following the fallout, 16 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: Stanley produced several documentary films and covered events in Rwanda 17 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: and Uganda. He returned to mainstream movie making with the 18 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen film Color Out of Space and Escalating 19 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: Extraterrestrial Spiral, based on the HP Lovecraft short story and 20 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: starring Nicholas Cage. Richard Stanley is one of the most 21 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: intelligent and articulate filmmakers I've ever met, and articulate about 22 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: the actual work itself. So I wanted to know how 23 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: with such an interesting background, Stanley first found his way 24 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: to film. I started messing around with some super eight 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: cameras from early childhood. I think it wanted into my life. 26 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: When I was about four years old, Dad brought home 27 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: a sixteen millimeter Prince of King kong um Um kind 28 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: of fancied himself as a filmmaker and there was sixteen 29 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: million meter equipment lying around and I remember playing on 30 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 1: I say, as a toddler, and cong caught my attention 31 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: very early, and I kind of it was a gateway 32 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: drug to the Ray Harry Housing movies. And by the 33 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: time I was ten, I was messing around with claymation 34 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: dinosaurs like a lot of other kids. Have you know 35 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: that I ordered a copy of the film Fearlessly Scrapbook. 36 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: That's why Harry completely important. Yeah, I ordered a copy 37 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: from online today, We're inspired by you. The Ray Harry 38 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: House and the film Fantasy scrap Book was really the 39 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: first time I saw raised artwork, as well as the 40 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: drawings by Willis O'Brien and Mario Laranaga and some of 41 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: the other folks. And it's just such incredible work that 42 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: even in black and white reproductions, I was mesmerized at 43 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: an early age. I see my own children. So we 44 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: have quite a few kids running around, and my son 45 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: a couple of them have four boys and two girls, 46 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: and the oldest son who's about six. When I think 47 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: about it, and I get honest about it, I shouldn't 48 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: be surprised by his fascination with all things horror. He 49 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: wants to watch Alien, and he wants to watch the 50 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: monster come shooting out of John Hurts Thorax in the 51 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: middle of Alien, and he and and he loves and 52 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: when I think about when you mentioned Harry Housing in 53 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: this book. When I was a child, I had a friend, 54 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: my best friend, and his brother, Kevin and Keith Cornelius 55 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: lived behind me, and they would subscribe to Famous Monsters 56 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: of Filmland magazine. Famous Monsters was hugely significant, absolutely massive. 57 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: I saw my first copy when I was four years old. 58 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: Famous Monsters and the other warrant titles Creepy and Erie 59 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: and Vampirella that came at the same time in the 60 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: late sixties early seventies, just had covers that was so 61 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: bright and so i popping that they completely jumped off 62 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: the stands into your life and my family. We didn't 63 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: have the money, we didn't have the resources to buy, 64 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: but they would buy, like the Latex, like the rubber claws, 65 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: the hands of the creature of the Black Lagoon. They'd 66 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: buy Frankenstein's sutured hands. They'd get the headpiece with the 67 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: bolts for Frankenstein. They get and we would make movies. 68 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: He had a Brownie, he had a little Super eight, 69 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: and we go in the background. We would take two 70 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: picnic benches and we laid them on their side so 71 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: that the legs of the bench were there, and for 72 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: a child, you could lay down in between, and we'd 73 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: put some sheets or towels down and that was the 74 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: casket of Dracula. We made a casket for Dracula, and 75 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: we'd see the hand come up and gripped the side 76 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: of the coffin. Slowly. We'd film We're obsessed and we 77 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: were very young, we were six and seven, with the 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: maccabb and all that other stuff. And I'm wondering, why 79 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: do you think, I mean a lot of kids just 80 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: love that. Is it just the drama? I guess so. 81 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: And there's also a sense of taboo about it. Um. 82 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: The harder that people try to sense of things or 83 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: take things away from you, the more it bestows value, 84 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: and the more you feel that you actually need them. 85 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: I mean, to some extent, horror movies were never any 86 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: fun anymore after I was old enough to watch them. 87 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: Do you understand what they were trying to do to you? Yeah? 88 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: At the moment you hit eighteen, you've got other concerns. 89 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: There's a woman in your life, and you have to 90 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: make money, and life goes out. But and somehow it's 91 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: not important. But up to that point there a kind 92 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: of a forbidden fruit in a way. They also speak 93 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: some kind of truth that you can't get from the 94 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: adults or the school teachers. I think that my kids, 95 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: if they were like me, it was forbidden And it 96 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: was also just the chance to completely occupy someone that 97 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: was not you. You know, you really could play a character. 98 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: But to get back to um, your you go to 99 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: the South African College of Music. Correct well, I got 100 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: I got a job there basically shooting for their archival 101 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: section when I was a teenager who had got me 102 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: posted to some of them what they used to call 103 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: the homeland states in Apartheite era South Africa. I should 104 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: make a note that growing up in Apartheite era South Africa, 105 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: which was essentially a police state, the horror movies, in 106 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: the genre movies and particularly the horror comics of that 107 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: period of the nineties seventies were really the place that 108 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: I acquired my social conscience from. It definitely didn't come 109 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: from my school teachers, or from the government, or from 110 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: my parents, God bless their souls. All of that was 111 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: coming from the comic book writers and California in places 112 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: who are doing a lot of LSD at that point 113 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: in time, and who were writing yeah, super challenging material 114 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: or very politicized at that point in time, and all 115 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: of it came through UM, through the genre. So I 116 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: was super glad for that. Basically ended up was a 117 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: cameraman in UM in the Truant sky shooting tribal dance 118 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: and initiation rituals, which was another area that's always drawn me. 119 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: If it hadn't been for the regrettable geopolitical circumstances, I 120 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: think I might have stayed in South Africa and become 121 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: an anthropologist. When we know in your childhood, when you're 122 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: growing up your mother was an English anthropologist and you 123 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: moved to South Africa. Was it Cape Town? Is at 124 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: the city you grew up in? Yeah, I grew up 125 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: in Cape Town. When my mom initially quit England and 126 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: went to Africa, she went first to m Zimbabwe. She 127 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: went to Bulawayo first because it had the word away 128 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: in it. It was a sufficiently long way from hub. Yeah, 129 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: post war England. She just wanted to get the hell out, 130 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: more or less pected a random but because she trailed 131 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: with her an interest in witchcraft and in the fairy culture, 132 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: the fairy folklore of the West Country, I think she 133 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: um I saw a side of Africa that the other 134 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: um colonial um European settlers were oblivious to. She pursued 135 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: that doggedly and ended up writing a cornerstone book on 136 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: African mythology. But accordingly, in the first few years of 137 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: my life, for the first three or four years she 138 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: was dashing around to one bunch of tribal people after another, 139 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: and always trying to find the sangoma or the the 140 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: traditional healer. Um I guess instilled a set of values 141 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: in me where I came to see these people as 142 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: figures of extraordinary value and power. What about your dad? 143 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: What did he do? He was basically a travel writer. 144 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: UH had a gig for UM mobile oil that ready 145 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: worked for him where he was writing UM kind of 146 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: little travel brochure things for mobile and return for free 147 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: gasoline and doing star rating guides for hotels and campsites. 148 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: So that kept him on the move and kept the 149 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: gas tankful. That's pretty much yeah, what he did the 150 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: whole of his life. Now, um, when you go and 151 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: shoot the tribal dances and initiation which was which was 152 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: did you accompany your mother? Were you working with your mother? Then? 153 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: Now I was out of my own by the time 154 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: I actually got to start shooting material in the tran 155 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: sky and the other Homeland places. This was when I 156 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: was in my early teens, and my mom's interest in 157 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: tribal witchcraft and tribal magic um I guess um influenced 158 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: me hugely, mostly because it was something that none of 159 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: the other kids had any real interest, and when I 160 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: went to when I was old enough to go to 161 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: school and mix with um other European kids, I was 162 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: shocked to find that they didn't believe in any of 163 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: the stuff or had only the the most horrifying kind 164 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:58,479 Speaker 1: of prejudiced notions about it. Now, when you're there, described 165 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: briefly if you can, about these tribal dances in initiation rituals. 166 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: And how did what I'm assuming was the richness on 167 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: any level style, wardrobe, music, the choreography itself. How did 168 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: this What effect did this have on you in terms 169 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: of your own film career? Did you bring some of 170 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: the things you observed to your other films? Almost certainly, 171 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,239 Speaker 1: and in a way it actually pushed me into filmmaking. 172 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: At the at the top, I wasn't sure I wanted 173 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: to be a filmmaker. But the more time I hung 174 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: out in the on the wrong side of the tracks 175 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: in South Africa with long hair and a camera, the 176 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: more trouble I got into was the arm authorities, and 177 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: the more I was construed as basically having a political 178 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: context because that's the only way they saw things back there, 179 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: and eventually did to me basically fleeing the country, Um 180 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: when I ended up finding asylum in London and in England. Um, 181 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: the only thing I had to show for myself was 182 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of deeply weirdly dressed people, um dancing and 183 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: doing strange things a number of yeah, spectacular locations, which 184 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: I was eventually able to translate into a job making 185 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: music videos for the Yeah, the music business. It gave 186 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: me an end, you know what I was going to say. 187 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: Then at some point you go and make music videos 188 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: for Public Image limited s Express Noir Desire. These are 189 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,599 Speaker 1: all African. Ban's South African. These are British bad Son. 190 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: If you went back to this when you went to London, Yeah, 191 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: public Image, it's John Lyden's bound. Yeah. The first It 192 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: was the first proper union shooter I ever did. When 193 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: I graduated from a Super eight coverare to a full 194 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: Union Crew and honey Wagon and you know the makeup fans, 195 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: the full Monty. It was a terrifying day, but it 196 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: was the potential for getting drafted into the the angle 197 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: in war that propelled you don't want to leave and 198 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: go to London? Correct? Yeah. I was in the cadet 199 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: school for two years and I was supposed to go 200 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: straight into the South African Defense Force and become an officer, 201 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: and I'm going to the Golden Bush War. The family 202 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: had a long military tradition that was just like what 203 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: you did at a certain age as you were supposed 204 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: to go in the army. By then, I developed a 205 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: huge antithesis for the Apartheit regime. The notion of having 206 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: to pick up a gun and defend them kind of 207 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: stuck in my craw And I didn't really believe the 208 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: propaganda anyway, which was telling us that the Russian Army 209 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: and the Cubans were across the border in Angola. Unless 210 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: we confronted them, they would be Russian t sixties. Who's 211 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: on the streets and Pretoria in twenty four hours or 212 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: whatever the bullshit was at the time. I chose not 213 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: to believe it and upstakes and left. Now, when you're 214 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: in you go to the UK and you're there, and 215 00:12:53,600 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: then you make your way to Afghanistan to film the 216 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: Soviet Afghan War. What was the impetus for that? Why 217 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: did you want to go do that? And I'm assuming 218 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: put yourself a tremendous risk. Correct, Yeah, it was a 219 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: crazy time. I don't regret it. Unfortunately, the cameraman was 220 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: very badly injured. UM he did make a full recovery. 221 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: So I regret the cameraman's injuries, but I'm glad that 222 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: we took that decision. It was an insane thing to do. Basically, 223 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: it came out of three years of doing music video 224 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 1: work in London and it had gotten to the point 225 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: that in order to pay everyone's rent and keep everything moving, 226 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: we had to do pretty much one music video a month, 227 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: which meant the quality started sliding. We weren't able to 228 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: pick the bands and the songs as well as I 229 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: would have liked. UM I was on a particularly lousy 230 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: music video shoot. I've got a generally in my career, 231 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: I've taken a first on, last off policy. I'd like 232 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: to get their first thing in the morning before the 233 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: crew arrives, and UM I like to stay until after 234 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: all the cable is washed and all the lenses have 235 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: gone safely back into their boxes and everything's wrapped. So 236 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: UM I was coming out of the shoot and the 237 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: last van to UM to leave the location. UM the 238 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: driver was grumbling about the stick shift on the van 239 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: and said, this thing is as hard to drive as 240 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: a BTR sixty, which I recognized as a lightweight Soviet 241 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: troop transporter used in the invasion of Afghanistan. And I 242 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: asked him what the funk you'd been doing driving a 243 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: BTR sixty to begin with, and he told me that 244 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: he was a g hardy uh, that he was down 245 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: his luck and M London was trying to doing odd 246 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: jobs essentially to try and save up enough money to 247 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: go back to Afghanistan and fight the g Hard And 248 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: I was in such a vile mood after the promo 249 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: shoot that day, I said, look, if I give you 250 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: the Boddy to go back to the g Hard, will 251 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: you take me with you and allow us to bring cameras? So, um, 252 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: that's pretty much. Yeah, how it happened. It was the 253 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: spur of the moment. I've been obsessed with Afghanistan for 254 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: a long time ever since, so I guess reading about 255 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: it as a kid and the works of Robert E. 256 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: Howard or U. Rudget Kipling's um Man, it would be king. 257 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: So when you arrive in Afghanistan, when you first give 258 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: him this is eighty nine? Correct? Yeah, what do you mean? 259 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: Is there a lot of is it very furtive? Are 260 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: you sneaking around and you're having to kind of here 261 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: with this guy. You're accompanying him, are you? You're still 262 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: with him when you get there. You we're following him. 263 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: But you had yeah, and we had to. We had 264 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: to trick our way over the over the border and 265 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: UM coming well. First we tried doing it legitimately the 266 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: first way. The first trip we made in we did 267 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: with the Red Cross was the United Nations and UM 268 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: we drove in trucks of flower to UM a bunch 269 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: of locations in Ningraha Province. So we came in first 270 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: ULL saying legit un food delivery. That was the first 271 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: time that I was in country. UM had my first 272 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: um yeah vision of Afghanistan, saw the light and the 273 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: space of the place and got the smell of it. 274 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: But UM, on the first trip out with the u N, 275 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: we deviated from the path. When you're around doing those 276 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: kind of runs for around the u N, you have 277 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: to really stick to the agreed course and we UM 278 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: we made a stop on the way which freaked them out. 279 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: So after the first food run we were stripped of 280 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: that position and grounded back in Frontier Province, Pakistan. We 281 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: then volunteered our services to the Moderate Guerrilla Party to 282 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: the Jamati's dummy under armored Chamasud and they took one 283 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: look at us and refused. So we volunteered ourselves to 284 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: the Who the heck would I want to take us today? 285 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: Over there? You couldn't give it away, but yeah, we have. 286 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: We've eventually gotten in with the servietive party. Instead was 287 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: the Hespis Love Me under Gilbert and Heck Mattia, who 288 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: are kind of the bad guys and in cahoots with 289 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: the CIA at that point in time. But they took 290 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: us and we were able to cross the borders through 291 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: a secret crossing at a place called now Our Pass 292 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: and entered the country indefinitely, stayed through till after the 293 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: end of the Soviet occupation. Now the give me the timeline. 294 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: How long do you last in that area before you 295 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: decided to go home? And where is the home you 296 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: go to? Do you go back to London? Yeah? We 297 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: got zapped after about three months. Um shot. Yeah, meaning 298 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: we got blown up by some kind of missile. It 299 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: hit us on the second day of the Siege of 300 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: jelal About. I don't really know what it was, but 301 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: that um this was it was early in the going. 302 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: You hadn't been there for very long. Yeah, I know 303 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: it was about the Russians left on Valentine's Day on 304 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: February fourteenth, This would have been about three months after. 305 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: It was the onset of the civil war. Essentially there 306 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: was it was, you know, um, our side, the Western backed, 307 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: Saudi backed muja hidden versus the remaining socialist back to 308 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: Afghans who were cornered inside of the city of Jelalabat 309 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: and under massive siege. But they had also been heavily 310 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: armed by the retreating Soviet forces, so there was a 311 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: full on confrontation. Unfortunately our side word where I found 312 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: out later also not taking prisoners and doing terrible things 313 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: to some of the folks they were capturing. So um, 314 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: no one was surrendering. So and when folks know that 315 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: they're fighting to their deaths um, they put everything they've 316 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: got into it. So it's a terrible scene and I 317 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: think approximately a thousand people a day were getting killed 318 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: and in the first week of the civil war. Yeah, 319 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: because thereafterwards devolved into a civil war, which is basically 320 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: between it was a struggle between the different Afghan warlords 321 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: to try to take power over the country. Once the 322 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: once the Soviet army had retreated Um. Eventually the sheer 323 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: chaos of that, which I think finally resulted in a 324 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: tank battle in the streets of couple Um, led to 325 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: the Taliban stepping in and saying, Okay, this has got 326 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: to end. UM. Now we need Shario, we need strict 327 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: religious government, and we need to clean this mess up. 328 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: The civil war kind of created the conditions that enabled 329 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,239 Speaker 1: the Taliban to rise. So you were there for how 330 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: long total? UM? I was probably in country UM, not 331 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: much more than four months in total, and I was 332 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: probably I was probably stuck in Pakistan for about eight 333 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 1: months between are waiting trying to get in. There were 334 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: two different trips in and we've spent most of our 335 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: time trapped in Frontier Province on the wrong side of 336 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: the border. After falling out of Afghanistan, it was a 337 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to actually leave when I did, but 338 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: the Romain was severely engined and had to had to 339 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: be taken to surgery. And then UM because of a 340 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: series of insane events, I've lost my I D I'd 341 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: lost my backpack and passport and had no way of 342 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: proving who I was. So yeah, I ended up in 343 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: a jail cell in Pakistan. Uh was sprung by the 344 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: British embassy and his lamabouts who gave me a fresh 345 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: set of travel documents and got me back to London 346 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: via ab Abu Dhabi is Stadfold and that finally Heathrow 347 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: writer director Richard Stanley. If you enjoy conversations with genre 348 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: bending filmmakers, listened to my episode with William Friedkin, director 349 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: of The Exorcist the films that I've made. I'm more 350 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: interested in spontaneity than anything else, so I don't rehearse. 351 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: I would talk to the actors and find the things 352 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: that move them, either that caused them to laugh or 353 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: cry or be frightened, and I would use those things 354 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: from time to time in the making of the film 355 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: to suggest, whenever it was necessary, some emotion. But I 356 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: would never tell an actor really how to do it. 357 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: Here the rest of my conversation with William Friedkin in 358 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: our archives at Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, 359 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: Richard Stanley tells us his critique of the Island of 360 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: Dr Moreau, film that got made without him. I'm Alec 361 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Writer director 362 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: Richard Stanley had written a low budget horror screenplay when 363 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: he received a call from a high powered Hollywood producer 364 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: while I was away in in insane series of events, 365 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: the screenplay for Hardware, which had been written a while 366 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: before and been pushing around, had gotten passed from hand 367 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: to hand to hand and had somehow come into the 368 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: hands of Harvey Weinstein. Uh. Yeah, Harvey wanted to make hardware, 369 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: which I first found out about while I was still 370 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: in Frontier Province. A very um angry man managed to 371 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 1: get through to me on the switchboard at the Saudi 372 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: Red Crescent Hospital and in um Frontier Province, who was 373 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: a producer named Tricks Warrel and Tricks was freaked out 374 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: because he had been through share hell to actually reach 375 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: me on the telephone. So every third word was an 376 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: F word. You don't have fucking hard've been looking for 377 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: a mate, etcetera, etcetera making this fucking movie. And I 378 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: was trying to explain that hardware was getting set up 379 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: at Mirrormax. And I remember, because the had been long 380 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: and um the hospital was full of people who had 381 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: lost their eyesights, or children with berlins or missing limbs. 382 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: Tom hearing this guy swearing down the phone at me 383 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: was seemed somehow offensive, and my reaction was simply to 384 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: hang up on him, and then I tried to ignore 385 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: it for a while. I'm looking. I'm looking at the 386 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: one liner here on hardware. You shoot this movie it's 387 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: released in you must have gotten to it pretty quickly. 388 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: You must have shot it in eighty nine, or it's 389 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: released in September where you shot it in ninety. Dylan 390 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: McDermott is your lead, that's right? And what was when? When? 391 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: So so? Harvey Weinstein, I would presume and tell me 392 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. He's putting everything together, he's passing the 393 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: script onto the cast, he's producing the film. Uh, you're 394 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: in the Harvey business. Harvey's in control. Correct. Well, thankfully 395 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: not because it wouldn't have been hardware otherwise, but well, 396 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: it obviously became a grapple, the match for control over 397 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: what really happened, with some different schizophrenic forces trying to 398 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: change the material. I fell into it right after the war, 399 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: So I hard ware is what I had in place 400 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: of therapy. Um, that's my way of working out the 401 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: the PTSD. Essentially, Mirrormax put their money through a company 402 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: called Palace Pictures in the UK who brought on a 403 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: super tough, m young producer Joanne Seller, who had never 404 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: produced a movie before, but then did a bang on 405 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: job and produced the hell out of hardware and were 406 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: She was also strong enough to be able to keep 407 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: Harvey at base so that me and Harvey didn't kill 408 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: each other or achieve some kind of state of critical 409 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: mass because these insane directives from Mirrormax were coming in 410 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: on a daily basis, only we had fax machines in 411 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: those days. Like I think after three weeks in they 412 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: decided they didn't like John Lynch, the actor playing um Shades, 413 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: the space jockey of the movie, and suggested can we 414 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: write John out of the movie and replace it with 415 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: a dog, and that because we gave Dylan the dog, 416 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: it would make him bore acceptable to a younger audience 417 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: to pay less money. Well, we don't want kids to 418 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: like this this guy because it's it's an R rated 419 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: movie with shoot a good X rated film here. Uh, Well, 420 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: what's the matter if the kids like the dog? Or 421 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: it just got more more and more crazy as it 422 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: went log I think most of Harvey's directors whether he 423 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: wanted more kids in the movie, younger kids and was 424 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: constantly trying to push it towards a younger audience than 425 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: it was intended. So this is your first film. I 426 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: don't I don't want to dwell too much on Morrow, 427 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: but this is your first film Hardware. And you've got McDermott, 428 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: who has made quite a few films and TV shows. 429 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: I worked with him once and he's a very accomplished actor. 430 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: What was it like for you to go from ritualistic 431 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: dance who war torn a civil war Afghanistan and now 432 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: you're making a movie with an American actor? What did 433 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: you find was your strengths and weaknesses and directing actors 434 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: in narrative films. But I think the pleasure of coming 435 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: surviving the events in Afghanistan stumbling straight onto set was 436 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: that at least Hell held no fear for me. Other 437 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: different circumstances, I would have found it a lot more intimidating. Uh, 438 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: at least McDermot wasn't in the Taliban. Yeah, yeah, indeed, 439 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: And UM didn't brought a lot to it. Um it 440 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: was a mccab's state of affairs because Um. In fact, 441 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: the character each he plays changed a lot in the 442 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: course of setting the movie up. Because Moe is very 443 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: different in the Scriptum, I'd originally wanted Bill Paxton for 444 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: the part for whatever crazy reason. Um, this was coming 445 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: off the time of Near Dark. Um Mirrama's were really 446 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: anti Paxxton kind of dug their heels and and Dylan 447 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: was the best choice out of the very limited field. 448 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: Term there is a term they gave us. I think 449 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: there was three guys. They said you have to have 450 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: one of these three in the movie other as we 451 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: won't make the movie. It was very very very um 452 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 1: tight and um Dylan's came into it very pumped up, 453 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: very clean shaven, short hair. Um moas written was originally 454 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: a heroin addict dying of cancer, who has been irradiated 455 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: the zone and as seriously not well, who has already 456 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: had like one arm replaced the prosthetic limb and is 457 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: on the way out, which Dylan did not seem that way. 458 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: It was a powerhouse of energy and superbuff and just 459 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: didn't resemble the character as written. Um yeah, we essentially 460 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: rewrote it on the on the spot and reworked it 461 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: or so. Dylan came in as a card carrying Christian 462 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: with his copy of the Bible. U immediately noticed that 463 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: the main cyborg in the movie Marked thirteen was a 464 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: publical reference, which is something that had escaped my attention 465 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: up to that point. That that detail became a very 466 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: interesting plot pivot. Now you do this film and uh, 467 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's all the legend and Laura about 468 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: Harvey and his hands on approach to filmmaking. Was the 469 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: film was something you were genuinely willing to take credit 470 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: force that you were filmed by and large or was 471 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: it completely co opted by other people. Hardware is pretty 472 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: much my beast. I'm happy with hardware. The worst that 473 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: happened was we had lost a couple of scenes which 474 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: were trimmed out afterwards in You're in Afghanistan And I'm 475 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: assuming that Moreau, which was released in ninety six was 476 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: probably shot in Have you seen Lost Soul? The Doomed 477 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: Journey of Richard Stanley's Island of Dr Moreau? Have you 478 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: seen the documentary? Oh? Yeah, several any times? The film 479 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: is I mean, I'm a documentary junkie, and this is 480 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: one of my favorite docs of all time. But what 481 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: I realized was this movie is unusual in terms of 482 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: it's almost like everybody involved in the film just wanted 483 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: to get the funk out of there. I mean, nobody 484 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: wanted to be there. They all everybody phoned it in. 485 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: Frankenheimer phoned it in, Brando phoned it in. You know, 486 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: maybe not David Toulis or for Rusa Balk. Maybe they're 487 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: trying to keep their head above order. Val Kilmer phones 488 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: and and everybody just is coming for a paycheck. They're 489 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: all there for the wrong reason. And and the film 490 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: shows the film looks like there's so many missing scenes. 491 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: The film looks like they just slapped this thing together, 492 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: like let's just get this over with. Whatever we got, 493 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: we got shut down. Stop spending money. Initially, your work 494 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: on the film before You're gone involves, you know, a 495 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: lot of your greatest woric I mean the art conceptions 496 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: and all the art design and things like that for 497 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: what you wanted in the film. You were hired to 498 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: do the film, and who hired who was producing Pressman, Yeah, 499 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: it was a big ad ad pressman. Um it's my fault. 500 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I developed Island of Dr Moreau for years 501 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: and years and years. Um. At the point of the 502 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: thing got going, Um, I made another movie between Hardware 503 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: and Moreau, I made a movie called Dust Devil in 504 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: um in the Mabia. By the tail end of Dust Devil, 505 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: which I was convinced Dust Devil was the worst fucking 506 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: thing that could ever happen to anyone. It was really 507 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: a thousand miles of rough road and a nightmare experience 508 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: beyond hell. But by the end of Dust Devil, I 509 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: was about yeah, forty grand in debt and basically on 510 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: my ass in London and needed to sell a property 511 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: fast in order to um basically payoff Dust Devil. Um 512 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: that somehow that became Island of dr Burrow Um. I 513 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: was in no position to hold onto Moreau. I mean 514 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: m coppola could make Apocalypse now and next he was 515 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: coming off the back of Godfather. I was coming off 516 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: I was coming off the back of Dust Yeah, I understand, 517 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: I understand. That's Dust Devil wasn't the ultimate calling card, 518 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: wasn't um. No, it didn't give me any power or 519 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: leverage over the over the majors at that point in time. 520 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: But what's the genesis? Meaning? Did you write the screenplay? Yeah? 521 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: I write the screenplay. But how did somebody get the 522 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: screenplay and say I'm gonna make this movie? Forget about 523 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: Dust Devil? This guy that made Dust Devil pressman's talking 524 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: to his investors or his backers. Everybody. Let's just put 525 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: Dust Devil out of your mind. And this guy in 526 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: this script, they've got it. Meaning how did Ed find 527 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: you or you pitched him? You know how it actually happened. 528 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: Was Ed found me? Um Ed found me and said, 529 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: I want you to direct Judge Dread was sliced alone. 530 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: I was hugely down in my luck and in trouble, 531 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: and he needed a break. Um I said, sure, but 532 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: he has to keep his helmet on. We need to 533 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: do Dread like he has the fucking covert book. Uh. 534 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: This was a sticking point. Uh yeah, that's right, it's 535 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: it's a Dread had to keep the helmet on. And 536 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: because I'm hardware owed and unacknowledged debt to two thousand 537 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: a d and to Judge Dread. I felt I couldn't 538 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: stab the Dread franchise in the back twice. I had 539 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: to be kind. I had to stand by Dread, so 540 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: I had to turn down the project. Um, but I didn't. 541 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: I didn't want to let the opportunity go. So in 542 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: the middle of it, I said, well, why don't we 543 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: do Island of Dr Brow instead. So in that sense, 544 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: were you similar to Brando and Frank and I were 545 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: and other people who they were. You were there for 546 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: a paycheck. You just wanted to do a job and 547 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: get a check and do your best work and get 548 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: the hell out of here. Now, I always wanted to 549 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: do round of Dr Brow. This was a und of 550 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: Dr Brow was a personal obsession that probably came into 551 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: my life when I was when I was a kid. 552 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: And as I mentioned to my producers here, the Island 553 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: of Dr Moreau is too horror films. What a star 554 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: is born is to melodrama, you know. I mean there's 555 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: been three incarnations, Island of the Lost Souls with Charles Lawton, 556 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: one of my favorites, Moreau with Lancaster Lancaster, and then 557 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: your version, which, uh, and you've been dreaming about this 558 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: for quite a while. Yeah, I mean I saw the 559 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: Bert Lancaster version of Cinemas as a kid, and as 560 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: a fan of the Wells novel, I came out so enraged. 561 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: It was probably the first time that I felt I 562 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: wanted my money back after seeing a film, and I 563 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: think that planted the seed in my head that I 564 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: could do a better job. Um, From that point in time, 565 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: I kept thinking about how to improve The mouse Trap 566 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: and what a better Dr Moreau would look like, because 567 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: I mean, there's all kinds of problems with the material. 568 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: For whatever reason, they insistent always playing the beast people 569 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: as monsters. But the potential inherent within giving animals vote 570 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: larynxes and vocal cords and what the hell would the 571 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: animals say and do is so huge, and it's such 572 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: tasty material that I really don't feel that the material 573 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 1: has been well understood or has yet found its cinematic potential. Perhaps, 574 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: and now that the effects and bow cap work has 575 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 1: moved on to the point that it's reached, a better, 576 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 1: more complex adaptation of Wells's book might finally reach the screen. 577 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: How deep into the pre production process did you go 578 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: before you were separated from the material? Shall we say? How? Well? 579 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: How far into where were you? I went all the 580 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,720 Speaker 1: way through. I went through the hall of prep, cast 581 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: the film and we started shooting. Um. Well, the Brando 582 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: was the first to come aboard. The moment we had Brando, 583 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: we figured he was basically an actor magnet that even 584 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: though the script yeah yeah, So I immediately went after 585 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: Bruce Willets for the male lead, and for a while 586 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: Bruce was in and at the point when we had 587 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: Bruce and Brando for Mr Montgomery Um the third lead, 588 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: I went after James Woods Um. So there was there 589 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: was a point in time when Way Um and then 590 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: this enabled us to put together a formidable cast of 591 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: beast people with Ron Pullman as the Sayer of the Law, 592 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: m Frousa Bulkers u Asia the cat Lady, Um Tomorrow 593 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: Morrison as Um as a Zello the chief Dog, the 594 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: Bill Hootkins as the bristly bear Guy Um. It was 595 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: all of the beast people were tremendous actors, which is 596 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: one of the biggest tragedies of the Frankenheim evosionists that 597 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: none of these people get to do anything. They're standing 598 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: around the film and they've all lost everything, like every 599 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: one of them's lust, their scenes, lust, their material, and 600 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 1: it's just a huge number of geniuses on that set 601 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: who are not getting the chance to express themselves. Richard Stanley, 602 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: if you're enjoying this conversation, be sure to subscribe to 603 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,240 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing on the I Heart Radio app, Apple 604 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, 605 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: Richard Stanley tells us what it was like to direct 606 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: Marlon Brando in the Island of Dr Moreau. I'm Alec 607 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: Baldwin and this is here's the thing from my Heart Radio. 608 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: The production snaff foods on the set of the Island 609 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: of Dr Moreau were no secret, so much so the 610 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: documentary film was made about the Troubled movie. I was 611 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: curious about the circumstances leading up to Richard Stanley's termination 612 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: as director of the Island of Dr Moreau and how 613 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: he learned he was being let go. Well, I guess, 614 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: um the first inkling it was the middle of a 615 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: hurricane as well. There was there was a tropical storm 616 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: bright blowing in and we were in the one of 617 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: the worst places in the world. We were in a 618 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: place called Cape Tribulation, which is named that for a reason. 619 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: Um Mount Sorrow as the big mountain brooding over it 620 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: because the places broken the backs of all kinds of 621 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: folk in the past. Um and yeah, the production vehicles 622 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: stopped responding to my orders, so I couldn't basically get 623 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: an uber um. Um. Yeah. That was yeah, the end 624 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: of the wedge then, um, yeah, we've censed it coming 625 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: for a few days particularly was a hurricane. Because we've 626 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: been desperately trying to shoot, but it had really reached 627 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: a point where it was like horizontal rain. We were 628 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: unable to go and get a shot off the set 629 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: and washed away. How much did you shot before they 630 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: fired you? Um? We shot for about two days. I 631 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: shot some basically second unit stuff before the before principal 632 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: photography started, So she didn't shoo, didn't shoot any of 633 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: the principal photography. No, I mean we shot two days 634 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: of principal photography that wasn't used in the eventual films. 635 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: You did? You shot two days? Prince who was in 636 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: those scenes? Val Kilmer and Rob Morrow and yeah some 637 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: bits with some yeah throughs the bulk and Morrow eventually 638 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: left to be replaced by two lists. Correct, that's right. Yeah. 639 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: By the time all this came down to Morrow couldn't 640 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: take it anymore. He was pretty much broken on day one. Um, 641 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: I think, but like all of us, by the circumstances, Um, 642 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: we were on a tramp freighter at sea with a 643 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: hurricane blowing in of off Endeavor Reef by tape tribulation 644 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 1: of tribulation, not sorrow. Yeah, Yeah, it was on a 645 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: tramp freighter full of live animals. Uh yeah, there was 646 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: a puba on board. Um so I would live puba. 647 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: Um so yeah, Rob was I think on day one 648 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: already in the on the telephone and the captain's a wheelhouse, 649 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: desperately trying to get hold of his agent and trying 650 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: to find some way out of there. So just two 651 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: days of principle, you did the prep. You're you're, you're 652 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: really kind of the starter's pistol has been fired and 653 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: you're off to the races here. And who tells you? 654 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,800 Speaker 1: Who gives you the official? Was it ed? It d 655 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: take responsibility and call you and say we're going to 656 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: replace you? Or how did you find it? It It was? 657 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,399 Speaker 1: It just some But I always say that Hollywood likes 658 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: to take a note and they write down you're fired, 659 00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: and they put that note in a bottle and they 660 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: throw off the end of the Santa Monica pear and 661 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: they hope it gets to you. Yeah. I think I 662 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 1: got it from Tim Zinnaman, the line producer faced the facer. 663 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: My phone, It was my phone. Um. Then there was 664 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:22,359 Speaker 1: the followed a desperate scene in a sushi restaurant in Kent's, Queensland, 665 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:28,760 Speaker 1: where um, I seem to recall Um for ruiser. Um 666 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: stood up and passionately. Um defended me. Um cried real tears, 667 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: explained to Tim the bottomless pits of chaos and everlasting 668 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: hell fire that would be opened if they made that decision. 669 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 1: Rue was one hundred percent right. Uh, one hundred percent 670 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: didn't listen to her. I think she said, if you 671 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: do this, I will cut out my heart with the 672 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: sushi life right here. And it was. It was a 673 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: flabboratory scene that but if it's pointless, they weren't gonna 674 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 1: listen to her. They didn't understand what they were doing 675 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: and what was what was coming as a results, So 676 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: then the documentary comes out a lost soul. And one 677 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 1: of my favorite moments is for Rousa talks about going 678 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: in to speak to Brando and she wants to talk 679 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: to Brando, and Brando says, you know, what can I 680 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: do for you? And she said, when we have these 681 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: scenes together and I want to talk to you about 682 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: the scenes, maybe we could chat a little about the 683 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: scenes and maybe run some lines. And there's a pause 684 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,479 Speaker 1: and Brando says, oh no, no, he said, I haven't 685 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: even read the script, and uh, do you feel Um? 686 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: Because I'm somebody who as much as I worshiped Brando, 687 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: and I do worship Brando and I and I went 688 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: to go meet him at his home once and at 689 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: a lengthy meeting, a lunch that went on for four 690 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: hours while I was trying to enlist him to do 691 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: a TV movie with him with me because I knew 692 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: he wanted money. So we were gonna do Cat on 693 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: a Hot Tin Roof for CBS. I was gonna play Brick, 694 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,879 Speaker 1: he was gonna play Big Dead. It was my one 695 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: chance to work with the unensurable Brando. You know, this 696 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: is Brando at a time when nobody would write a 697 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: policy to hire him. And I went to his house 698 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: and he was, you know, unhealthy, he was big. We 699 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about his acting career. He could 700 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: tell he was pretty much done with though he didn't 701 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: have any passion for that. I mean, Brandon was a 702 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: guy who just stopped caring a long, long time ago. 703 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you dodged a bullet that you 704 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: didn't have to deal with that or were you really 705 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: looking forward to working with Brando? Um? Now, I was 706 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 1: vastly looking forward to working with Brando, and I feel 707 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: that one of the great tragedies of the Island of 708 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: Dr Burrows, that we were deprived of a potentially great 709 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: um Swan song performance by the man. I'm super sorry 710 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 1: that I've heard about the chance to try and direct him. 711 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: I did actually direct him a little with because um 712 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: I also went up to Mulholland a bunch of times 713 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: before I did. How did you approach him someone who? 714 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: I mean when you when you go on a set. 715 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 1: I'm not Marlon Brando, and I still go to want 716 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: to set in the latter twenty years of my career, 717 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: and people are reluctant to direct me. Well, they're too 718 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: eager to direct me. They really feel that they have 719 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 1: to come in with a whip and a chair and 720 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: feel like they've got to kind of tame me of 721 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: what I well, what path I might go off on. 722 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: And so relationships between actors, forget about how celebrated you are. 723 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: Relationships between actors who are experienced and directors can always 724 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: be potentially thorny. How did you approach him when you 725 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: talk to him? Well, I guess m We came into 726 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,479 Speaker 1: Morows through the character of Cuts, because Brando is still 727 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 1: very hung up on Cuts from Apocalypse Now and kept 728 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: trying to turn Moreau into cuts, suggesting initially that he 729 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: should be wearing black, just be a face hanging in 730 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,919 Speaker 1: the shadows and disappear into darkness, which he'd done before 731 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 1: on Apocalypse Now, and no intention going down that route. 732 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 1: So instead, I seem to recall we entered into a 733 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: very lengthy roundabout discussion about the horror of whiteness, and 734 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,320 Speaker 1: the particular horror of the ship of the shade of white, 735 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: going through Melville and Moby Dick and Edgar Allen Poe 736 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 1: and um the whole colonialist underpinnings of Well, it's just 737 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: the number of shock horror moments in post stories which 738 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,839 Speaker 1: come down to being white, like Madeline Usher and her 739 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,359 Speaker 1: white dress outside the door and Roderick and the House 740 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: of the Usher opens it, or the death of the 741 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: characters in same manuscript found in the Bottle, or Arthur 742 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: Gordon Perm surrounded by ice, the inhabitants of the black 743 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,319 Speaker 1: Island of Salal and Arthur Gordon Perm who have a 744 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: horror of whiteness, the a bunch of different Yeah, Takidi 745 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: lee is what the seagulls scream, and Arthur Gordon Perm 746 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: keidy Lee, which is apparently the word for white in 747 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,760 Speaker 1: the post story, but even the seagulls scream and scream 748 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,319 Speaker 1: at the explorers. So this horror of whiteness theme and 749 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: yeahs coming around through Melville as well. Um was something 750 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: was I think the way I lead it with some 751 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: brando and that's actually why he's wearing that white gauze, 752 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: the white zinc cream. In the movie. It went to 753 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,239 Speaker 1: the opposite of the black. Um, here's we've got to 754 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: get away from Kurts and go the other way. The 755 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: white zinc cream was because of that. It's meant to 756 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: be in the near future. It's meant to be in 757 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: the original draft that Gottamp things after them a nuclear 758 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: exchange legitimately worried about skin councer and the lack of 759 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,479 Speaker 1: the ozone layer, which but this reasoning has taken away 760 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,319 Speaker 1: in the Frankenheimer movies, so we never get an explanation 761 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,400 Speaker 1: as to wine Burrow is wearing this white zinc cream 762 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 1: and these white veils when he's going outside. But there 763 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 1: there is a legitimate reason for it. It's not just 764 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: because he's screwing around. Um. If there had been something 765 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,400 Speaker 1: resembling a script and if it hadn't been a complete 766 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: abbot far On the actual set, um Brando was also 767 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: coming off the recent death of his daughter's cheyenne and 768 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: was in terrible emotional shape. Um, and he wasn't given 769 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: a lot of help in um in Australia. I don't 770 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 1: think he got a lot of moral support out there. 771 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 1: I think by the time he reached the place and 772 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: found that the island was a total shambles, that the 773 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: script had imploded. Um, yeah, he stopped caring. But there's 774 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,399 Speaker 1: there's the ghost of a performance and there, yeah, where 775 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,399 Speaker 1: you see that in the biography the that wonderful duck 776 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: listened to me Marlon where once the daughter killed herself, 777 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,799 Speaker 1: it was just kind of much of the life went 778 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,720 Speaker 1: out of him. Um. So you take off several years 779 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,719 Speaker 1: before you're back on a set with Nick Cage and 780 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,839 Speaker 1: you're into the love crafty and vain there. I love 781 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,759 Speaker 1: real Lovecraft as well. How did that come together? How 782 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,720 Speaker 1: did you put that film together after how many years 783 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: of taking off a series of events. I've always been 784 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,320 Speaker 1: a lifelong Lovecraft fan, been huge him since I was 785 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: a kid. Really feel that the man's time has come 786 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: the term for whatever reason, A lot of the concepts 787 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,799 Speaker 1: and the Lovecraft stories are landing extremely well now in 788 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,280 Speaker 1: the in the twenty one century, and that there's probably 789 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: some kind of crazy reason for that. So it's been 790 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,799 Speaker 1: something of a crusade. It was. It was largely the 791 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,440 Speaker 1: commitment of Nick Cage that enabled Color out of Space 792 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: to get made the Color out of Spaces of script 793 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,920 Speaker 1: you wrote, Yeah, I adapted Color out of Space from 794 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: the classic HP Lovecraft story myself co writer. How did 795 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: you connect with Nick? Yeah? I was put in touch 796 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 1: with Nick and around about way it was actually I 797 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 1: think the producer Josh Waller who managed to get a 798 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: copy of the script into into Nick's hands. Then he 799 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: read the thing and it turned out he too was 800 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,320 Speaker 1: a Lovecraft fan, uh, connected with the material and wanted 801 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: to be on Nathan Gardner. That then enabled us to 802 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: get the Beast rolling. We only had Nick for four weeks. Um, um, 803 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: we're basically able to put together a two month shoot 804 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,959 Speaker 1: in Portugal which I got the thing done. What's next? 805 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: What do you do next? Well, um, I want to 806 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 1: make another Lovecraft movie and I've got a script and 807 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 1: I think it's the best god damnthing I've ever written. 808 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,319 Speaker 1: I think my entire life has been leading up to it. 809 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 1: And it's a movie called Dunwich. It's much horror away 810 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 1: and it's going to take it. We need to go 811 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,520 Speaker 1: back on campus and we need to go back to 812 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:46,440 Speaker 1: Miss Quoton at university now in the present day, um um, 813 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,160 Speaker 1: confront the things that are in that story. And yeah, 814 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: what I wanted to ask you is, what do you 815 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 1: consider making a Lovecraft movie? Yes, this is ending. I 816 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: mean most of this is ending on a note I 817 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,680 Speaker 1: only dreamed of. I mean, it's very hard for me 818 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,400 Speaker 1: to pitch myself. And here I am with you. I 819 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 1: am a great admirer of yours. I think you are. 820 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 1: I mean, this is an overworked word, but you are 821 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,440 Speaker 1: a visionary. You are a visionary filmmaker. I will come 822 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,120 Speaker 1: and just play the butler. I don't care. I'll ring 823 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: the dinner bell and say, you know, dessert has served, 824 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 1: my Lord, I don't care. I'd like you to read 825 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: for Professor Armitage, who is the lead and he's also 826 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,400 Speaker 1: essentially the script's version of Richard Dawkins. I'm very interested 827 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,879 Speaker 1: in Dawkins, a series about religious memes, and consider that 828 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: the Cosla Mythos is a perfect illustration of his series. 829 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,640 Speaker 1: I think you are an amazing filmmaker and I really 830 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 1: want to explore this with you because I would love 831 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,520 Speaker 1: to work with you. I would love to work with you, 832 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: and I would love to work with you. Sir. I 833 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:54,560 Speaker 1: think you're a super fine actor and it's a run privilege, 834 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,160 Speaker 1: Director Richard Stanley. You can learn more about his work 835 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 1: at the official Richard Stanley dot com. This episode was 836 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: recorded at c DM Studios in New York City. Were 837 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,040 Speaker 1: produced by Kathleen Russo, Zack McNeice, and Maureen Hoban. Our 838 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,440 Speaker 1: engineers Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Daniel Gingrich. 839 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you 840 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 1: by iHeart Radio.