1 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: Take a deep breath in through your nose. Hold it 2 00:00:36,680 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: now release slowly again deep in helle hold release, repeating 3 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I 4 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: am deeply, deeply well. I am deeply well. I am 5 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: deeply wow. I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply 6 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: Well Podcast. Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to 7 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: land on your journey of podcasts for those that are curious, creative, 8 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care. 9 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: This is where we heal, this is where we come. 10 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. I'm Debi Brown and today's 11 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: episode we are deep, deep, deep deep, diving and expanding 12 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: in one of the most beautiful subjects ever to grace 13 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: this planet, one of the most masterful tools to ever 14 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: be given to us, and that is meditation. Today's episode, 15 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: I am joined by a very special guest, one who 16 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: I have loved watching from afar on Instagram and connecting 17 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: with their work and connecting with their daily inspiration. Today's 18 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: guest is Joel Cross, also known as a soul called Joel. 19 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: He's a certified meditation teacher, mindfulness coach, and accomplished musician. 20 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: He has been Grammy nominated for his collaborations with India 21 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: Ari Swoon. As a songwriter and a guitarist, he has 22 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: spent more than a decade immersed in research and practice, 23 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: and his wellness based offerings include the Rise Journal, I 24 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: Got That Poetry Music, and the Beautiful Mindfulness Community, where 25 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: he leads guided meditations every morning. With a practical approach 26 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: to ancient meditation techniques, Joel helps individuals cultivate inner peace 27 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: and emotional stability while honoring their personal truths. A soul 28 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: called Joel, welcome to the show. 29 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 2: M thank you for having me. How is your heart full? 30 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: In yours so expansive? My heart feels really really grounded 31 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: and also vast in some new ways right now. 32 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: So it's a good space to be in. Yeah, yeah 33 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: it is. 34 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: Where do I even want to begin? You know what? Actually, 35 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: the first question I'm going to ask you before we 36 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: dive into all of the questions, what is your favorite 37 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 1: NDR RE album? 38 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: From being really honest, it's still a ustick soul. Oh yeah, 39 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: it's acoustics song. I remember being a teenager. I had 40 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: just barely started playing guitar, didn't have any formal training. 41 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: It was just you know, messing with the instrument and 42 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: I heard the truth. I heard Ready for Love heard 43 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: video of course, and I just remember thinking, that's what 44 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: music's supposed to sound like, that's what music is supposed 45 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: to be about. 46 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: Wow. 47 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: And of course as a guitar player, I totally nerded 48 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 2: out on all of the great musicians ever on the ring. 49 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that was the first time I 50 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: heard someone speak kindly about someone with a gap, which 51 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: was one of my insecurities I was working through as 52 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: a you know, a young man. But yeah, definitely acoustic soul. 53 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: Oh, andier Re, It's just my god, what a gift 54 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: to this planet. Yes, what are her music and teachings 55 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: have just done? Especially I think back like on a 56 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: subconscious level, because there were songs that I connected to 57 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: so deeply at ages that I didn't have any depth 58 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: of self exploration in the way that I do now. 59 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: And I remember hearing those songs and then forgot and 60 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: I heard some recently and I was like, oh, my god, 61 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: like she has been sharing the path for so long. Yeah, 62 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's just like wow, I love her. I 63 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: love her. I love her. My favorite album is I 64 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: Might Butcher This Because I always get a couple words 65 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: switched but Testimony Love and Relationships Volume one, Oh my god, 66 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah yeah that that has been such 67 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: a beautiful homecoming for me for over ten years. Every 68 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: time I get to reconnect with that album, I'm just like, 69 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: what a genius. 70 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: What a genius? Yes, she really is. 71 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: I would love to get started Jel by asking you, 72 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: how did you connect to meditation for the first time 73 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: and how did you start that personal journey with it. 74 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really kind of odd, but I come from 75 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 2: a very spiritual background, but it was very Christian traditional, 76 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: and around my early twenties, I felt myself wanting to 77 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: expand beyond that, not knowing what to do or where 78 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: to go. But meditation was loud in my intuition, just 79 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: like a spotlight on it in my life. And one 80 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: day I was finding like, Okay, I guess I'm going 81 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: to meditate. I have no idea what I'm doing. I 82 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: sit down in the corner of my room. I find 83 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: some meditation music on YouTube. I put it on. I 84 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: was so inflexible I couldn't even sit cross legged. So 85 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 2: I'm just kind of like hunkered down in this corner 86 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 2: and I have the most profound experience. I just start 87 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: intuitively breathing, and with each in breath, I would focus 88 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: on my thought out breath, I would visualize it dissolving 89 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 2: until there was nothing else in my mind. And then 90 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: I had this amazing visualization. It was this intertwined connection 91 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: with all of life. So as I exhaled, whatever that 92 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: last thought was disappeared and I was shown light coming 93 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: down on it, and that light was combined with the 94 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: energy of that thought, of that idea and being dispersed 95 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 2: throughout the cosmos. Right, And then I saw the water 96 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: running through the plants, turning into the air we breathe, 97 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 2: and then someone harvesting that tree, turning it into the 98 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,559 Speaker 2: desk that was in my room, right, And then even 99 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: driving down the road, feeling the energy of the person 100 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: next to me, and how that impacted me very subtly, 101 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: but very profoundly. And next thing I knew it was 102 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: about an hour later. I felt so light I thought 103 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: I was going to take flight. And I came out 104 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: of my room, still had my college roommates, and I 105 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: was like, guys, I don't know what just happened, but 106 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: you got to dry this. Yeah. 107 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: Wow, that was my first experience, your first was the 108 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: awakening Wow wow. Yeah, And so what changed after that? 109 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: Well, after that I started diving more deeply into the practice, certainly. 110 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: But what was interesting about six months later, I was 111 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: still very much a musician and only a musician, and 112 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: I caught tendinitis in my hand, and so my identity 113 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: was very wrapped up in music and only music. And 114 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: there was a bit of a crumbling of that whole 115 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: egoic structure because I went from practicing ten twelve hours 116 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: a day playing very fast jazz music to not being 117 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: able to play very basic songs I had learned when 118 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: I was a teenager. And I dove into the practice 119 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: and actually found this book You Can Heal Your Life 120 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: by Luise Hay, and she started talking about, well, all 121 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: of our illness is coming from where areas we haven't forgiven. 122 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: And in my mind, I'm like, I'm not holding anything 123 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 2: against anyone. I love everybody right, And she has this 124 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: dissolving resentment exercise that's I think it was created by 125 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: emmid Fox, where you're visualizing all the people in your 126 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: life on a stage doing the thing they love to 127 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: try to get into your subconscious And so I'm going 128 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: through different family members friends, and I get to my 129 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: father and I couldn't do it, and I broke down bawling. 130 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: And so that became my meditation practice, just sitting on 131 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: my front porch in North Texas underneath an oldal tree 132 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: and trying to visualize my father having an enjoyable experience 133 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 2: as a way to heal and forgive. And after a 134 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 2: few months I was able to do it, and it 135 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: just kind of broke me open the whole other perspective 136 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: of my life on ways to connect to how I 137 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: perceive my reality, receive the world around me, but also 138 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: how absent I was from my feelings. 139 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that part, you know, Yeah, that piece of 140 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: the dance of surrendering into meditation is it's just so 141 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: beautifully designed, so interesting, and so challenging. Yes, you know, 142 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: I don't. There are so many things that I want 143 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: to bring up right now at the same time about 144 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: things that you said, gosh so much. I think you 145 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: bring up the piece that I think keeps so many 146 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: people from going past that one or two times with 147 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: like a five minute practice or like a five minute 148 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: guided session to doing the deeper part of the truth, 149 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: sitting in silence with self, you know, as a meditation teacher. 150 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: The first thing that I think many of us find 151 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: that we have to deal with is every person, every 152 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: single person that can test that they think too much. 153 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: You know, everyone thinks they're the only one that thinks 154 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: too much. It's like me too before, I before, I 155 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: keep going, you know, but that is to be human. 156 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: It's why we're here. We're constantly processing and churning and 157 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: releasing this lifetime in so many so it's of course 158 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: we have thousands and thousands, but you know, the piece 159 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: about being able to access those deeper levels of our 160 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: own emotional life. I think that's where the fear comes 161 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: in for many that are desiring to start a practice. 162 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: You get through a couple guided meditations, you kind of 163 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: get into that five minute and you're feeling good because 164 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: you're feeling that initial kind of gratefulness for being able 165 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: to do it, noticing that you're not used to being 166 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: that still or that quiet, and then after a couple 167 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: of weeks, like the portal opens for you to start 168 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: releasing and noticing why don't my hips come down when 169 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm first trying to sit in a meditative posture, or 170 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: why does that stiffness come up? And why do I 171 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: judge it and get angry with it? And would you 172 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: speak to some of the ways to approach that feeling 173 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: when it begins and how to meet it, what to 174 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: do with it. 175 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I demystify by reframing the definition of meditation, and 176 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 2: I try to keep it as simple as possible. It's 177 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: self regulating your attention with intension, So I try to 178 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 2: let go of all of the ideas around this is 179 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: how I'm supposed to sit, This is the rigid structure 180 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: of what is kind of the mainstream idea of meditation. 181 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: And then I actually just send them to the journal, like, 182 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 2: don't even worry about how you're sitting, don't worry about 183 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: what's going on in your brain. Be active, right, So 184 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: focus your attention on writing and don't even judge it. 185 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 2: It's kind of how the Rise journal came about, because 186 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: the start of it is all about just really seeing 187 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: stream of consciousness. Writing. You're letting go of what's happening, 188 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: You're being present to what you're thinking, but you're also 189 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 2: detaching at the same time. So from that space it's like, 190 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 2: oh wait, meditation can be journaling. It opens them wide 191 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: and then they start building the confidence in the practice 192 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: still yielding some of the similar results, but from a 193 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: totally different vantage point. Then, of course, as you create 194 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: that space, asking deeper questions, asking hard questions as I 195 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: like to call them, and then holding space to hear 196 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 2: from your heart right just a few breaths opens you 197 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: up in a way where you're not worried about how 198 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: you're sitting or judging yourself. It's like you can do 199 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: it for three breaths. Yeah, and it's been so beautiful 200 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: to hear the feedback from the individuals who have started 201 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: the journal on how much it's really had an impact 202 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: on their journeys. 203 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the journey of meditation. It brings you so 204 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: many things you never knew to know you needed, especially 205 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: getting back into your body. I think that is a 206 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: big piece where when you start a meditation practice, you 207 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: don't realize that that's one of the fruits of it. 208 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: You don't even know that maybe you're out of your body, 209 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: or that you don't feel less connected to your emotional life, 210 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: and that you've never investigated why don't I? And you know, 211 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: then it all pours in slowly over time. You so 212 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: you begin every morning with your opening grading on Instagram 213 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: and as I look at your page, I see how 214 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: much everyone that connects with your work especially connects with 215 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: that invitation to join the experience. So you begin by saying, 216 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: good morning, beautiful soul, how's your heart? How did that 217 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: come to you? 218 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 2: You know? I think the first time someone asked me 219 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: how my heart was, it was a dear friend I 220 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: call her mama A. She's like a second friend, a 221 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: second mom, excuse me. And she's also in the wellness 222 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: spaces icho therapist and a healer and showed up better 223 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: space and she asked me that. I was like, oh, 224 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 2: I feel like I've asked myself that in my journal 225 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: in a way, but I hadn't heard it from the outside. 226 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 2: And you know, this was maybe over a decade go, 227 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 2: and I carried that, it's like someone else really in 228 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 2: my space. I was doing that, and I also at 229 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 2: that same time wanted to do it, but didn't know 230 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: how to initiate it with people. Right. So, as I've 231 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 2: been on this kind of wild journey the last few 232 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: years of kind of transitioning away from this solo identity 233 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 2: as a musician to sharing some of my spiritual, spiritual 234 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 2: parts of my life with the world, it's my creative 235 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 2: process is all about flow. It stems from this book 236 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: Effortless Mastery, which changed my life. Literally, it's actually part 237 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 2: of the way I met India. I'll have to tell 238 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 2: you that story at some point, but it's literally about 239 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 2: getting into this space or understanding this idea that every 240 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: other part of life is happening effortlessly right. And a 241 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 2: lot of those practices were all about channeling the force 242 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: of life as you breathe, own your mastery as Debi, 243 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 2: as Joel, and understanding that's not going to look like 244 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: any other person, and allowing it to float through you right. 245 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 2: And from that place, all you have to do is 246 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 2: connect to the heart, listen, receive, and share. And as 247 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 2: I'm out of my hikes, walking meditation is my jam. 248 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 2: So I get into flow state on my hikes and 249 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: then once I feel connected, I just kind of turn 250 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: on the camera. And one day that came out and 251 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: I started sharing it and people really resonated with it, 252 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 2: and so I shared it more. 253 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, those daily videos are so soothing, I think, especially 254 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: to the nervous system, because you are always in this 255 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: stunning backdrop somewhere where you know it is just like 256 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: the wild natural, you know, experience of being on earth 257 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: and being alive of what does your day to day 258 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: life look like? What is Have you always kind of 259 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: lived on the land or Okay. 260 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: No, definitely not. So my day to day life now 261 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: is very different from how I grew up or how 262 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: I've lived up until about three years ago. I was 263 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: in New York City, living in the middle of Manhattan. Wow, 264 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 2: writing music, playing music, and that's what I did. Was married. 265 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: That marriage didn't work out, and as I transitioned from 266 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: that lifestyle, I went into a deep, deep surrendering to 267 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: my heart. And for a long time I'd wanted to travel, 268 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: I wanted to explore nature and really dive into a 269 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: minimalist lifestyle. And of course it was also the middle 270 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 2: of COVID, so that dream of doing that in Spain 271 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 2: wasn't going to happen. So the next best day was 272 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: the RV. So I got an RV, got a truck, 273 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 2: and my gut was saying, get a field recorder, go 274 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 2: follow the resonance the energy of the space. My intention 275 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: was to be able to navigate the energy of home 276 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: in any space, right And so it led me actually 277 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 2: back to Maine that first summer So I had gone 278 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 2: back to Texas to be with family for a while 279 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: to kind of regroup, and then I drove up to 280 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 2: literally the northern farthest most east point in the country, 281 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 2: and I thought I was going to stay a week, 282 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: ended up staying for two months. Wow. And every day 283 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 2: it was literally, Okay, how's my heart. That's a check in, 284 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: But then it's what does my heart want me to 285 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 2: do today? Be very simple. Sometimes we just go check 286 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: out this trail, go check out that. And I would 287 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 2: always have my guitar in the truck in my chair, 288 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 2: And one day I found some random beach and it's rocky. 289 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 2: I had to like off road. I'm the only person 290 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 2: out there, and I hear very loudly just play. So 291 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 2: I just kind of set up things and I start playing, 292 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: and I'm just in this state of deep connection to 293 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 2: source and nature. And there's this beautiful thing that happens 294 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 2: when you get far enough away from the collective energy 295 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: that you feel this clarity and this piece of just 296 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: being a human animal on this planet. Right, And we 297 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 2: try to separate ourselves from the other animals. We're human animals, right. 298 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: We have a lot of gifts that they don't have, 299 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: but reconnecting to the earth in a way where there's 300 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: no distraction, there's no need to do anything else would 301 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 2: be And in that heart space is where all the 302 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 2: gold lies. It's our seed, right, you're planning seed for 303 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 2: a flower. You give it the proper environment you will grow. 304 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 2: For us, listening to the wisdom and the instructions in 305 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 2: our seed is how we grow. 306 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: That must have felt so extraordinary, especially processing the ending 307 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: of something meaningful to you in the midst of a 308 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: global reckoning. To have this space, like very literally, like 309 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: to be in such an expansive element, all your cells 310 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: kind of follow suit. You know. How did that process 311 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: feel for you? And how do you feel that you 312 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 1: emerged from the pendemic? 313 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's like a cocoon going into a cocoon, 314 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 2: if you will. Yeah, that travel trailer was my cocoon. 315 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 2: It was a deeply challenging process. Right, I don't even 316 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 2: remember what you asked me earlier, totally like went left 317 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: and I'm realizing that now, so you'll have to ask 318 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: me again. But that process felt like a deep shedding 319 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 2: of the disguises and masks and the unconscious manipulation disguises. Yeah, yeah, 320 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: there's a song I wrote with India called the Hour 321 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 2: of Love. It's all about taking an hour each day 322 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 2: for your practice or your prayer, whatever your rituals are. 323 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: And at the end we have the refrain be rid 324 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: of your disguises again, Be rid of your disguises again, 325 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 2: Be rid of your disguises again, because every day we 326 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 2: have this sense memory with all of these spaces and people, 327 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: and we forget, right, we have to forget ourselves to 328 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 2: feel safe or to protect ourselves in those situations, not 329 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 2: realizing that we could reconnect, to hope and transform our 330 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 2: situation or rather set the tone in those spaces deeply. 331 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: Well, how many years have you been in the RV now? 332 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: Three? 333 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: Wow? This is a big question that I know has 334 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: like such a multitude of answers, But I will attempt 335 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: that experience of being by yourself and also very consciously 336 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: being intuitively led about where your next destiny. I just 337 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: you know, I can't even imagine how masterful and healing 338 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: having that as an addition to the process of everything 339 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: else right, because it's like then you are living in 340 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: intuition and you're also not being You're not leaking energy 341 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: in any way, especially from those day to day interactions 342 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: or you know, just bumping up against a lot of 343 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: the fear and the grief that's present in people right now. 344 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 345 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, So looking back who you were when you stepped 346 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: in to right now three years later in this moment, 347 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: what are you noticing as some of the greatest gifts 348 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: of this experience. 349 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: Oh, freedom is the one word answer, but there's so many. 350 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 2: I remember before maybe twenty eighteen, there was a meme 351 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 2: that said I want a life, I don't need a vacation, 352 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 2: and I was like, Oh, that's so great, and then 353 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: I see that with that, I was like, what does 354 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: that even mean for me? You know, what would that 355 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 2: look like? And I knew that I didn't want to 356 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 2: have as spontaneous a schedule as I did as only 357 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 2: a musician, because I wanted to have children one day 358 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 2: and you know that'll come at some point. But a 359 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 2: large part of that was maybe work an hour or 360 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: two each day. I have a lot of time to 361 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 2: connect to nature, have a lot of time to be 362 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 2: with my family and those who I care about, because 363 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: I know that I don't need much, but I also 364 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: know that I'm happiest when I'm connected to those things. 365 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 2: So the greatest gift is that now I'm closer to 366 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 2: that dream than ever, and I feel more embodied than ever. 367 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 2: I had to face a lot of my own demons 368 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 2: through that process, the ways that I created a partnership 369 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 2: that wasn't resonant with who I am because of all 370 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 2: those masks and disguises. Doing some deep soul healing work 371 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 2: with my family. Of course, we all know those things 372 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 2: start in childhood. Yeah, and to face one of my 373 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: greatest fears, which was to be rejected by my family 374 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: as maybe one of the as the only individual in 375 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 2: the immediate family who doesn't adhere to the tradition that 376 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 2: we were brought up in. 377 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: Wow. 378 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: So it's freedom to know that beyond that fear, we 379 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: still love each other. Had a lot of growing pains 380 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: and learning how to accept the things that may or 381 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 2: may not ever be what we want. 382 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: You know, when you speak about especially the dynamic that 383 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: the Christian Church and black family in the Christian Church, 384 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: you know the role that that plays, both the deep 385 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: importance especially historically, and also some of the ways that 386 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: I think collectively were exploring some of the negative aspects 387 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: of that and relationships of that. How has as a 388 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: black man how has that? What have you been noticing 389 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: with that? I don't necessarily have a question around it 390 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: because I've been observing it myself. And you know, as 391 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: someone I didn't grow up in the church, I kind 392 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: of grew up with all beliefs, none that were given 393 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: to me, but I was always exploring them everywhere. But 394 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, I remember when I first started teaching meditation. 395 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: It really caught me by surprise how substantial that part 396 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: of our belief was, and how many spaces I was 397 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: going into and it was being so rejected, and how 398 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: as a teacher I had to really adopt and study 399 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: different ways of teaching this so that people didn't think 400 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: it was a competitor of God. They understood it was 401 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,719 Speaker 1: one and the same. And you know, is often shared 402 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: in this work prayers, when you talk to God, meditation 403 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: is when you listen for the answers. So to take 404 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: up a lifestyle like this in many regards, right, like 405 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: being out alone in nature right, And so many people, 406 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: especially in communities of color, historically haven't always had access 407 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: to nature because of you know, laws during segregation that 408 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: then led us to thinking that that's not for us. 409 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: And so you're you're you're kind of shifting a lot 410 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: of things by existing, by being yourself right now in 411 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: this moment, and so what are I'm just curious any 412 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: thoughts or observations you've had out kind of those polarities 413 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: and navigating conversations with people from more of a Christian community. 414 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so for a more accurate depiction of 415 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,959 Speaker 2: my upbringing, my dad's like a third generation Southern Baptist. Wow, 416 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 2: so's it's thick. Oh, my grandfather at a church in 417 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,239 Speaker 2: New Orleans. My great grandfather started a church and now 418 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: I think my cousin's the lead pastor of the church. 419 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 2: So there's a long, a long history there. And now 420 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: within the black community in general, I think there is 421 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 2: a lot of different misunderstandings. I think because there hasn't 422 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: been a lot of exposure in those spaces, because we 423 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: have a lot of trauma in our community, right and 424 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 2: that's where we found safety. That's where we found ways 425 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: to connect and transcend mentally and spiritually. The injustices and 426 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 2: the hatred and the murders and everything that we endured 427 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: as a community. That was our anchor. And so we 428 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 2: learned through that history that anything other than may disrupt 429 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: that feeling of security, and so my approach now it's 430 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: one of the reasons that I use the language of 431 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 2: the heart, because I wanted to find the language that 432 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: we can agree on. And when I use words like 433 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 2: God or even the divine, it gets there's a lot 434 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: of questions. Right, So when I think I hard, I'm like, well, 435 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,479 Speaker 2: we're all of heart, we all have love. How can 436 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 2: we approach this from a vantage point of connection, right 437 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 2: and harmony? But even still there's those who will be 438 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:08,719 Speaker 2: close to that. But I recognize that it's really about exposure, 439 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 2: and I know that within my community, my family unit, 440 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 2: that I've softened a lot of those rough edges in 441 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 2: a way because as family, even though there were periods 442 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: where we struggled, there was still that pure intention of 443 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: wanting to stay connected, wanted to be as loving as 444 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 2: we knew how, and learning that unconditional love means showing 445 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: up to meet people where they are right, and how 446 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: we find constancy in that is grace and compassion. The 447 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: other thing I wanted to share about our community and 448 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:55,959 Speaker 2: this whole piece of nature, going back to George Floyd, 449 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: for me, I had a deep I think we all 450 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: had a deep awakening of sorts around injustice in our country. 451 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 2: I had to figure out how I wanted to approach 452 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 2: that topic in a way that would transform our community 453 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: while also maintaining who I am. And one of the 454 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 2: intentions around my travel was to embody us reclaiming our 455 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 2: bodies in nature as grounding as we know it is 456 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 2: to see, you know, if I'm in the mountains of 457 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 2: the Pacific Northwest or by a river or whatever it 458 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 2: may be, for us to reclaim a right as humans, 459 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 2: human animals, human species on this planet out of nature. 460 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 2: Because I can tell you when I told my parents 461 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 2: what I was going to do, they were like, where 462 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 2: are you going? What are you doing? Why? 463 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: Right? You know. 464 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,479 Speaker 2: You're going to the remote places. You know, I've been 465 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,719 Speaker 2: way off grid. And but you know, part of that 466 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 2: was healing my own trauma around nature and having those 467 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 2: fears and fixing them. And you had a Resma Minicum 468 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 2: on your show. 469 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: Yes I did, my good brother, Yes, Yes. 470 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 2: Thank you, Resma, in order to learn thank you. But 471 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 2: after doing some work through his book Grandma's Hands, God. 472 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: My Grandmother's Hands. 473 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, like healing some of that trauma around police 474 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 2: and injustice, it shifted my perspective on how to honor 475 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 2: this wow right as a black man out of nature, 476 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: not just the stigma we have around going out, but 477 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 2: also culturally the identity that we bear within a stereotype 478 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 2: as black people don't do certain things. 479 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and how. 480 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 2: Just limiting that can be and misleading, you know. So 481 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 2: that was Those are the ways that I approach those things. 482 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 2: But it's still a journey, journey for sure. 483 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: What are some of the things you like to do 484 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: when you're alone in nature? 485 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 2: I'm alone. I will put on a fire if the 486 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 2: weather's great, make a kettle of tea and play guitar, 487 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 2: or I will write poetry, read are just ground, just ground, 488 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 2: and enjoy it. And of course it's all. All of 489 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 2: that is a meditation to me, it's not separate. Yeah. 490 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 2: I went through this thing of recognizing all these identities 491 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 2: we attached to right as a black man, as a 492 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 2: man of a certain age, assistant mail and realizing I 493 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 2: kind of bust a lot of those things wide open, right, 494 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 2: And realizing on a fundamental level is human animals. We 495 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 2: are supposed to be connected to nature, and the way 496 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: I feel comfortable doing that is by just honoring the pool. 497 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 2: I don't have to overthink it. It doesn't have to 498 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 2: be again this whole life that I don't want to 499 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 2: vacation from. Right, If I'm connected every day, I'm not stressed, 500 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 2: I'm not overworking myself. I'm not stuck in the productivity, 501 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 2: capitalistic identity or pattern. It can be connected the community 502 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 2: in the mornings and enjoy the day deeply. 503 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: Wow. Connecting with nature has been one of the most like, 504 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: surprisingly pleasurable, exciting, incredible experiences. I think of my life 505 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: and I grew up in La so we have a 506 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: beautiful city. You know. It's not that I'm far from nature, 507 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: but it's not outside of the beach. It's not something 508 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: like you're going out of your way to do. But 509 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: that forest energy, like that river energy is crazy. It's 510 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: just like, Wow, I had this experience recently. I just 511 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: shared it on this last episode. But it's so much 512 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: funnier than I've even told it now. But I'm going 513 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: to tell it in more of a basic way. But 514 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: I went. I was visiting Paris a couple weeks ago, 515 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: and by surprise, I found this tiny little forest on 516 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: the outskirts of Paris, which was like, I did not 517 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: expect that to happen. Yeah, And the second I walked 518 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: in it almost felt like a movie like it was like, 519 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: you know, secret garden or something like you push through 520 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 1: this little path and you open up, you know, the branches, 521 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, it's like, ha, you know, 522 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: it's just this whole ancient forest with moss grown over 523 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: all of the bark. And that takes a certain amount 524 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: of years and decades to happen, and you know, it's 525 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: just being able to I love to like bury my 526 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: hands and feet and like the soiler and like especially 527 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: if I'm somewhere like Sedona, but having opportunities for me 528 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,720 Speaker 1: now to be out traveling, whether for work or pleasure, 529 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: and find like a beautiful natural element of that area 530 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: and almost you know, it feels as if I my 531 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: soul longs to pay homage to the earth in that 532 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 1: area and to learn from it while I'm there. So 533 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: it's been exquisite getting to know nature, and for so 534 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: I think for so many of us, that is the 535 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: piece where it's like when we first think of our practices, 536 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: it's kind of your your I'm going to do this, 537 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm 538 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: gonna do something for you know, my mind, my spirit, 539 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: my body, and it's such a checklist kind of thing 540 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: that it can be overwhelming, so it doesn't even feel 541 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: good for quite a while. It feels like a chore. 542 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: But turning your practice into everything that you just said, 543 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: which is it's not rigid, it's flexible, it's based on 544 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 1: your intuition. It's based on the longings of your being 545 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: for that day, for that moment, and then getting out 546 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,720 Speaker 1: and just being at play. 547 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's we're really simple beings. Yeah, 548 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 2: and we live in a world that's been complicated. This 549 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 2: The thing that kind of brought me back was have 550 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 2: you read Miracle of Mindfulness? Team not hon Oh, that 551 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 2: was my first book on meditation. I read very simple manual. 552 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 2: I was inspired by him because he was a mentor 553 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 2: for our Martin Luther King, one of many, I'm sure, 554 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 2: but so I read this book and keeps it very simple. 555 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 2: He's like, when eating an orange, you should know how 556 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 2: to eat an orange. When washing the dishes, you should 557 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,800 Speaker 2: know how to wash the dishes. And at first, like, 558 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 2: I don't get it, what are you talking about? This 559 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 2: is so weird, and he repeats all of these different 560 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 2: daily activities, and then he mentions this manual that a 561 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 2: lot of the monks had, which is called the Essential 562 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 2: Discipline for Daily Use, And they had all of these 563 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,280 Speaker 2: little mantras that they would apply to different daily activities. 564 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 2: And one of the ones I remember well is washing 565 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 2: my hands. I hope that every being has pure hands 566 00:40:52,640 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 2: to receive reality. Yeah, right, right, And so I went 567 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 2: looking for this book, couldn't find it at the time, 568 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 2: so I started writing my own and I would do that. 569 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 2: As I washed my hands, I would have these intentions 570 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 2: or as I brushed my teeth, little daily things a 571 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 2: few moments, right, thirty seconds, whatever it is, a few breasts, 572 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 2: And I realized I developed a sense memory with these spaces, right, 573 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 2: So as I would make my tea, I would just 574 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 2: feel peaceful and drownded as I washed my hands, and 575 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 2: then I would just kind of stay mostly in the 576 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 2: flow throughout the day, where there wasn't this heavy partition 577 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 2: of I need to spend an hour a day because 578 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 2: this week just was like ruined me. I've been so overwhelmed. 579 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 2: But these little moments of all the things you're going 580 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,879 Speaker 2: to do anyway now become a part of the. 581 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 1: Practice that's mastery. Yeah, Like it's devotional, ritualistic to master 582 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: something with ease, with grace, to commit the knowing to 583 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: your body. Yeah, and to make it. The word that 584 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: I keep using for for what I experience in that 585 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: way is like pleasurable, you know, to make it feel 586 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: good throughout that. 587 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is. 588 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:25,399 Speaker 1: That has been the change, the deepening I think I've 589 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: been most excited about in my own life and practice. 590 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: You know, practicing meditation for quite a while, but it 591 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: takes time to get to the places you need to 592 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: get to. And it's been in the last couple of 593 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: years that it's just felt no matter what you could 594 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,760 Speaker 1: be going through, just almost it's just such a craving 595 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: to have this spiritual practice. There's no way I would 596 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,800 Speaker 1: miss a second of it. I'll move anything else around 597 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: in my life to make time for that. You know, 598 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 1: any meeting can be canceled for my meditation and to 599 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: hit that point and to really know what it took 600 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: to get there. For each of us individually, when we 601 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: make it there, whatever that looks like for each of us, 602 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: it's just so beautiful, you know, Just such a pride 603 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: really sets in for what you were willing to dance 604 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: with and let go of. Wow. 605 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so beautiful to hear the stories of others 606 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 2: and when, where and how and their avenue. Even you 607 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 2: describing this little forested area in Paris that was naturally touched. 608 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so avid because on one hand, 609 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 2: you're in Paris, right right, and then there's this natural 610 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 2: area that's just captivating and resonating. 611 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:54,319 Speaker 1: I was ret force for three hours, you know, like 612 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: it was just and I really and there were so 613 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: many tiny paths, there was a there was just this 614 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: like insane amount of crows filling the forest talking to 615 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: each other. And I'm rarely around crows. It was just like, 616 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,800 Speaker 1: oh god, it was so good. 617 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so it's funny, right, Yes, 618 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 2: that's the thing for me. I had this awakening in 619 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, this moment like a third eye thing, 620 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 2: and I went out on this walk, long walk, like 621 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 2: ten miles and the birds. It was like I could 622 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 2: hear the birds. It was like I've lived my whole life, 623 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 2: but I haven't heard the birds. They really taken in 624 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:52,280 Speaker 2: their unique song, their essence, their brightness. They're brilliant and 625 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 2: feeling it like letting it move you, and it was 626 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 2: the most beautiful thing, and so it brings me joy now. 627 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,720 Speaker 2: Just to hear bird songs, I laugh and I'm taken 628 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 2: because I feel like I understand something about them that 629 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 2: I never had access to. 630 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: Oh God, to be alive, be alive, to be awakened, 631 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: what a joy, what a gift to witness it all 632 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: a soul cultural I think. As my final question on 633 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: this episode, I would like to ask you if you 634 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: could share some soul work with us. Is there a 635 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:49,279 Speaker 1: prompt that you can leave with our audience for self awareness, 636 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: for reflection, something to meditate to, to savor throughout today. 637 00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 2: M There is this aercize I shared with my community 638 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 2: over the weekend. It's really simple and it's you know, 639 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 2: you think average lifespan about eighty years. Subtract whatever your 640 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 2: age is, right, and now think of your favorite season. 641 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 2: You have that many of those seasons left? 642 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:23,400 Speaker 1: Wow? 643 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 2: Right? I feel like years for some reason goes over 644 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 2: our head. But if you think of your favorite season 645 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 2: and the scarcity of that season, something turns on. And 646 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 2: now it's very simple, right, So just close your eyes, 647 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 2: breathing into the heart space and simply as the heart, 648 00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 2: what does it want those seasons to be what is it? 649 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 2: Want them to look like I feel like. And then 650 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 2: once that vision arises, simply set the intention to honor 651 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:44,560 Speaker 2: the vision of your heart and with another breath, simply 652 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:55,640 Speaker 2: returning to the room. Thank you, m welcome, Thank you. 653 00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: How can everyone get connected to you? 654 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 2: That's the on all the social media, the Soul Cultural 655 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 2: and a soul Cultural dot com. 656 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: And rise journal and Amazon Primate. Yes, Joel, thank you 657 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:15,720 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today. 658 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,719 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. 659 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: We'll be back next week, no mistay. Connect with me 660 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or 661 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: you can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. 662 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, 663 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: don't forget. Please rate, review, and subscribe and send this 664 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: episode to a friend. Deeply Well is a production of 665 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,400 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jacqueis Thomas, 666 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:51,239 Speaker 1: Samantha Timmins and me Debbie Brown. The beautiful Soundback You 667 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,319 Speaker 1: Heard That's by Jarrelen Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more 668 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,120 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app wherever you listen 669 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows