Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 1: These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Done Done, Hi,
Speaker 1: and Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Kara Klink and I'm Liza Traeger. We talk SVU
Speaker 2: week talk crimes. We have guests, celebs. It's really a
Speaker 2: jam packed, amazing podcast and we love that you listen
Speaker 2: to it. What's that bitch? I have not been in
Speaker 2: the country for over three weeks.
Speaker 1: I'm back. I'm back in New York.
Speaker 2: Had an aggressive cab driver and I feel right at
Speaker 2: home where I belong.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 2: But he had the worst toenails I'd ever seen, and
Speaker 2: it might haunt me forever.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, How did you see your cab driver's toenails? Well,
Speaker 1: he put my bag in the car, obviously my bag
Speaker 1: is and he was wearing a man and he was
Speaker 1: wearing a mandle. He was wearing a mandles and it
Speaker 1: was like some of the it was the worst. It was.
Speaker 1: It's gonna haunt me forever. I can't I really can't
Speaker 1: handle a bad toe. I really really can't, Like, I
Speaker 1: just like.
Speaker 2: Put on a clog, sir, what are you doing? Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like a nylon.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was crumbling in front of my eyes.
Speaker 1: My husband gets pedicures like regularly, and he is like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I never did these, Like I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm walking on a cloud and it really has
Speaker 1: improved things. He's got good feet now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice that men have learned, like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: just get your feet done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we have to look at them so fucking
Speaker 1: get it together. It's like the least you could fucking do,
Speaker 1: like nose hair and fucking toes. Just do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: I also say something horrific in London and I don't
Speaker 2: know if you want to be horrified to or not,
Speaker 2: but it's gonna live in my mind.
Speaker 1: See, I want to know it's not that bad. Okay.
Speaker 2: Basically it was unfortunately a man on the street with
Speaker 2: his laying down with his butt fully out covered fully
Speaker 2: and shit everywhere, smeared shit, and there was like a
Speaker 2: crowd around him.
Speaker 1: So I went ooh, I wonder what's going on?
Speaker 2: And then I saw him and then a woman was
Speaker 2: helping him, but I was like, this will not leave me.
Speaker 1: So those are the things that wow, can we put
Speaker 1: like a pickup in where I go. Okay, if you're
Speaker 1: one of those people that got offended at that thing,
Speaker 1: Lisa said a few episodes ago, yeah, LEAs fast forward
Speaker 1: because that's another poop con and I don't even like
Speaker 1: poop humor. But nothing of this fun. You're not laughing,
Speaker 1: You're just telling me the story. But it is wild.
Speaker 2: I was like in Lapland, in the pure forest in
Speaker 2: the Arctic, and that wasn't the first thing I told
Speaker 2: any of our listeners. All I said was there was
Speaker 2: shit in an ugly toe. That's like what I came
Speaker 2: back from.
Speaker 1: Literally, you were on the trip of a lifetime for
Speaker 1: ten days dream trip, and you're like, oh, I saw
Speaker 1: a guy covered in shit in London. First thing first reported.
Speaker 2: My friend got married in a beautiful ceremony. But that's
Speaker 2: what I said because I also was like an amazing
Speaker 2: crew in production and I was obsessed with everyone and
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see them all again. But the
Speaker 2: first story I told you was like the one person
Speaker 2: I didn't get along. Yeah, it's like not a good
Speaker 2: brain time.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, was it? It sounded amazing. Well,
Speaker 1: this one fucking bitch.
Speaker 2: But even that's fun, you know, like we experienced that
Speaker 2: on about threat party once.
Speaker 1: It is fun to have a common enemy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, it keeps the tension off of
Speaker 2: everyone else because no one's gonna hate each other more
Speaker 2: than that bitch.
Speaker 1: So it's like nice, Yes, for sure, a common enemy
Speaker 1: can be fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what did I miss? Your child turned one? You know,
Speaker 2: my child says you don't like Oliver. He's like locked
Speaker 2: in the cupboard like Cinderella cleaning already.
Speaker 1: A little nugget, my little smiley nugget. Oscar turned one.
Speaker 1: I made it to a year. Yeah, I'm excited. We're
Speaker 1: having a little birthday party for him this weekend, joint
Speaker 1: with another one year old. So it's like a little party.
Speaker 1: Because Rosie's birthday was so recently, it's like I just
Speaker 1: can't get involved in another full solo party. I needed
Speaker 1: someone else to share the work with me. So joint
Speaker 1: party this weekend the day I land from New York.
Speaker 1: It's just gonna be great. I can't wait. Yeah, you guys,
Speaker 1: so Kara is meeting.
Speaker 2: Well it's not for me, but we will both be
Speaker 2: in New York together this weekend, so we will probably
Speaker 2: go live. We'll go live, and this is in the past,
Speaker 2: so you'll you will have maybe seen us live together
Speaker 2: in New York.
Speaker 1: We are in the time machine.
Speaker 2: Is so annoying and now it's even more annoying, and
Speaker 2: we're so happy to be at the Wundry family.
Speaker 1: But it has made the time machine even more aggressive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it has made it hard. Yeah. But well, like speaking
Speaker 1: of the time machine, I just want to touch on
Speaker 1: this very briefly because it is annoying. But this is
Speaker 1: time machine, so this will have the old news. But
Speaker 1: the Amber heard verdict and Johnny Depp verdict just came
Speaker 1: out moments before we were recording this podcast, and she
Speaker 1: got found guilty and it's just, I mean not guilty
Speaker 1: because it's not a criminal trial, it's a civil trial.
Speaker 1: She has to pay, she has to pay. She got
Speaker 1: asked to pay him ten million and then three million,
Speaker 1: and he has to pay her two million. So I
Speaker 1: don't even know if this bitch has eleven million dollars.
Speaker 1: I also feel as though she I think they have
Speaker 1: been in a mutually abusive relationship. That's my opinion from
Speaker 1: what I've gathered. But I also think people are acting
Speaker 1: like she completely invented all of her abuse, and I
Speaker 1: don't think that that's true, And I think that that's
Speaker 1: misogyny at its best. So and also bots have been
Speaker 1: taking over the Internet supporting Johnny Depp, like there have
Speaker 1: been troll farms in job.
Speaker 2: But people have loved Johnny Depp for years because like they,
Speaker 2: I mean, people have Johnny Depp. There's a man with
Speaker 2: Johnny Depp tattoos all over his back of all the
Speaker 2: different characters he's played, you know what I mean, Like, yeah.
Speaker 1: I just I've never realized he had such a deep
Speaker 1: fan base. But I also think that right now the
Speaker 1: world is on fucking fire in so many different ways
Speaker 1: that this is like the case that everybody feels like
Speaker 1: they can joke about. Talked about this on Hysteria today,
Speaker 1: but like everybody feels like this is like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is two celebrities that are just like seeing each other
Speaker 1: for money. This is like the funny thing, like the
Speaker 1: punchline news story that we can talk about, and it
Speaker 1: just feels like she's getting Monica Lewinski, that's all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I also do think she's a crazy
Speaker 2: bitch like I do. Sure, And so to me, I'm
Speaker 2: just pissed because also, like what you said with the bots,
Speaker 2: it's like in cell like bait, it's cat NAPTI in cells.
Speaker 2: To them to have a false accusation out there, to
Speaker 2: have one woman lie, it's like this is all they
Speaker 2: need forever and ever. So that's why I'm mad at Emberhurd,
Speaker 2: because it's like, you're gonna make it harder for fucking everybody,
Speaker 2: any women to come forward anymore.
Speaker 1: Now people have to be scared about civil trials. And
Speaker 1: I also think he was abusive to her. You don't,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've been not paying attention because I've been so like
Speaker 2: bummed about what this is gonna do for like victims
Speaker 2: to come for decades.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a bummer. It's a real bummer. And this
Speaker 1: is civil luckily it's not criminal. But like he sued
Speaker 1: her for defamation over something that she wrote in an
Speaker 1: op ed. That's what the whole case was about. She
Speaker 1: wrote and said I'm a victim of domestic violence. She
Speaker 1: did not name him like nothing, and he started this
Speaker 1: whole lawsuit that brought in so much more dirt about
Speaker 1: him that he defamed himself. Like now there's all this
Speaker 1: shit everybody knows, Like he's got old managers and old
Speaker 1: agents saying, this fucking guy orders a case of wine
Speaker 1: to his house every day. He's got a staff of
Speaker 1: forty people, and like they all are on eggshells around
Speaker 1: him because he's a psycho, Like he shows up late
Speaker 1: to set, he punched someone on a set. I mean,
Speaker 1: like he's not He's no angel, fucking Johnny Dutch. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: But you're totally right because I've only just been on
Speaker 2: the internet, like just Twitter, Instagram, and yeah, I did
Speaker 2: not hear or see any of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the.
Speaker 2: Amber being like a dumb bitch, I understand, like calling
Speaker 2: someone that's a victim of abuse like a crazy bitch
Speaker 2: might be seen as bad, but also crazy bitches could
Speaker 2: get attacked, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the whole idea of like perfect and imperfect victims
Speaker 2: that's annoying, where it's like all these people that might
Speaker 2: lie or have records or do other things can still
Speaker 2: be abused.
Speaker 1: People in jail get raped all the time. So I
Speaker 1: like my moments of being a crazy bitch. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: been a crazy bitch in some moments of my life.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if I trust her in
Speaker 2: terms of like I don't know what I let her
Speaker 2: borrow a top.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, on the Amber Heard trust scale,
Speaker 1: it's like I let her borrow a top.
Speaker 2: I don't think i'd let her watch my kids. But
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, and she's allowed to be a crazy bitch.
Speaker 2: I mean that's at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 2: and she could still be someone that deserves empathy.
Speaker 1: And justice and justice in a fair trial. Yeah, it's all.
Speaker 1: And what's wild is like everybody's making money on this,
Speaker 1: Like right wing websites are like post spending all this
Speaker 1: money to push their Amber Herd Johnny Depp shit on
Speaker 1: Facebook and also like Etsy people are making like you know,
Speaker 1: like justice for Johnny shit, and like YouTube people are
Speaker 1: completely pivoting their content. They're like, Okay, no makeup to
Speaker 1: toial today. Instead, I'm just gonna give my hot take
Speaker 1: on the Depth Herd trial. Like everybody's just trying and
Speaker 1: they're getting thousands and thousands of hits. Like everybody's just
Speaker 1: like obsessed with this shit right now. So I just
Speaker 1: figured we had to address it. But it feels like
Speaker 1: it's misogyny, but I also think it was a mutually
Speaker 1: abusive relationship and that she's not completely innocent, but that
Speaker 1: she has been a victim in my opinion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just seem scared what this will do forever,
Speaker 2: Like I'm just so annoyed to sit at any comedy
Speaker 2: club ever again and this topic come up, Like I know,
Speaker 2: but it's just like.
Speaker 1: Me, so I hear exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2: Well, because even so I just went on Instagram obviously
Speaker 2: it's a tick and I'm addicted, and it was Whitney
Speaker 2: Cummings Live with Tiffany Hattish and she was saying the
Speaker 2: craziest shit. I was like, I have to log off
Speaker 2: because I also caught it in the middle. But Whitney
Speaker 2: was pretty much saying like, you need to think twice
Speaker 2: before you come forward, because then your name is going
Speaker 2: to be associated with this person forever. And you need
Speaker 2: to pick your battles and anytime you get abused, you
Speaker 2: better write it down, send an email, tele friend, because
Speaker 2: that's what you need. And it sucks, but you need
Speaker 2: evidence and you need to realize if it's worth it
Speaker 2: or not to come forward because of your name, and
Speaker 2: you'll always be attached to this person. And I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, like, shit's about I just like I
Speaker 2: don't know. Yeah, I'm just nervous for everybody else forever,
Speaker 2: and it's always like one step forward, eighty steps back constantly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because even like years ago, I got into an argument
Speaker 2: with a bunch of comics and they were talking about
Speaker 2: the few women that light about Bill O'Reilly. I was like,
Speaker 2: but didn't dozens of them tell the truth?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I'm like, why is that not more worrisome to you?
Speaker 2: But that's because they're all rapists, so they're like nervous.
Speaker 2: But I don't know, so it might be something I
Speaker 2: skip in terms of being super invested in.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, and no one will talk about
Speaker 1: it in two days. I just feel like this woman's
Speaker 1: life is probably like gonna be you know, who knows.
Speaker 1: Maybe she'll sell a book and that'll be the money
Speaker 1: she has to pay Johnny Depp, who knows. But on
Speaker 1: Hysterio today, after we talked about this fucking train wreck
Speaker 1: for a while, we also did our sanity. They do
Speaker 1: a thing called Sanity Corner, and I talked about All
Speaker 1: Stars seven, which is bringing me a lot of joy
Speaker 1: right now. You just got back and you were able
Speaker 1: to because Lisa has not. Lisa has not quite negotiated
Speaker 1: the world of a VPN, so when she's abroad, she
Speaker 1: doesn't have the access to all of her Famously, she
Speaker 1: thought of VPN was a stick, so you know, like
Speaker 1: we definitely have to give her a little So she
Speaker 1: hasn't been able to tune into what I am finding
Speaker 1: to be a delightful fucking season of television.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean I'm only in the first episode,
Speaker 2: but obviously already cried when Shaikule and Naomi Campbell had
Speaker 2: the moment. Naomi Campbell's eyes turned wet and I was
Speaker 2: like a puddle. And then Jada's crying is she good
Speaker 2: enough or not? And that's actually where I pause to
Speaker 2: get onto our lovely little zoom recording.
Speaker 1: It's just everybody is excellent. It's like, you know, we
Speaker 1: watch these seasons and there's like three or four fillers
Speaker 1: at the beginning, and you're like, Okay, let's get to
Speaker 1: when we get to the compety, like you're not really
Speaker 1: gonna be that competitive, and like everybody's good. Everybody has
Speaker 1: their own strengths. No one goes home, so there's not
Speaker 1: really a lot of like caddy bitchiness. They all love
Speaker 1: each other, They're all awesome, like fucking Raja rules Like
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't even know.
Speaker 2: Raja's always been to my number one fashion queen, and
Speaker 2: I'm just glad she finally gets the chance to.
Speaker 1: Like, I just think she's so slady beautiful, even in confessional,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're gorgeous, like and the like I want.
Speaker 1: This isn't a spoiler, but last night on the episode,
Speaker 1: there was just a voiceover where Raja's coming down the
Speaker 1: runway and it's her own voiceover going, fuck, I look good.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, you're right, Like my husband, I
Speaker 1: just started like cracking up. It was so funny. But yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody's great. I love Jinks. I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know who I'm going for. I think I'm going for
Speaker 1: either Raja or Jinks. And I think that's just because
Speaker 1: they haven't they're they're farther back for me, like they're
Speaker 1: more classic. But like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think everyone thinks Shinx is gonna win, so we'll see,
Speaker 2: but I do want it would be fun if either
Speaker 2: Trinity or Monette took it just to yeah, settle the score.
Speaker 1: Shay are like also amazing competitors, Like they're really well
Speaker 1: Shaye to me.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm only one in but like her confessionals
Speaker 2: are so funny and so like snappy into the point
Speaker 2: and clever, and I'm like, I cannot believe we get
Speaker 2: to talk to her, Like, I know, it is really
Speaker 2: shocking that Shay has taken a love for us, because
Speaker 2: I don't know if we're worthy of it.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: No, But what I watched in the UK, they're drag
Speaker 2: races on Netflix. I just rewatched five, six, seven and eight,
Speaker 2: like you know, while I was in bed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh so.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things in life are people doing
Speaker 2: impressions of me, and like especially non Americans because the
Speaker 2: accents are so good. But my friend Emma did the
Speaker 2: best impression of me. She's like, your stories are always
Speaker 2: one eye open, it's just you going, I don't know
Speaker 2: if I'm gonna make my fly.
Speaker 1: We'll see I made my fly. Yeah, like your bed
Speaker 1: ones were you know, there's a little bit of eyeliner
Speaker 1: on there and one eyes open. They're so funny. And
Speaker 1: then one of the nights in Finland.
Speaker 2: I shared a room with a DT, an Indian comic
Speaker 2: who's incredible, and but I sleep with a laptop. And
Speaker 2: then she the next morning got up and she's like,
Speaker 2: you need help. She's like, you're fucking sick. BoJack Horseman
Speaker 2: the saddest episodes. I go, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: She goes, when Sarah Lynne dies, that's what you're sleeping to,
Speaker 2: just the most tragic episodes of television. I'm like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, and she goes, you know, I woke up
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night and she's like, I
Speaker 2: slowly closed your laptop so quietly, and she said that
Speaker 2: I woke up, Like what's going on?
Speaker 1: Like I fully woke up that I needed the laptop.
Speaker 1: And she's like, laptop is your noise machine? Like for
Speaker 1: my children, yes, Like they need a white noise machine,
Speaker 1: and that's your white noise machine.
Speaker 2: So those are like the twos. Oh I had caviar pasta.
Speaker 2: Now I'm like, have you eaten anything good? But when
Speaker 2: I'm back in.
Speaker 1: La, well, well we're going to San Diego. Fuck. I
Speaker 1: fucking I want bells bagels so bad. I guess I'm
Speaker 1: a saying I'll tell you the soft mic. It's kind
Speaker 1: of boring. What'd you have? No, tell me no. I
Speaker 1: just tried this new place that's in our neighborhood that's
Speaker 1: been saying it was going to open for like two years.
Speaker 1: I think you know what I'm talking about. I don't
Speaker 1: want drug front or not. Well it's not a drug front,
Speaker 1: but they need to work out some kinks. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go back in a few months when the kinks are
Speaker 1: worked out. What's the kink they've been It's a place
Speaker 1: that serves slices. They give you a buzzer. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to wait for a butt, Like heat
Speaker 1: it up and give it to me, like Saborro has
Speaker 1: mastered this, Like give me the piece. And then I
Speaker 1: got a pizza bagel that was just like eh, But
Speaker 1: like I am going to try it again in a
Speaker 1: few months. I just feel like it's cute and like
Speaker 1: they have a great salad. I know that's like not
Speaker 1: really a selling point for like a full pizza place,
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, we can cut this. This is like
Speaker 1: a review of a local of a local. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's that bad. I don't think it's boring.
Speaker 2: I think people need to know about bagels and slices
Speaker 2: that were into and not into.
Speaker 1: I had.
Speaker 2: I had for the first time reindeer reindeer tongue.
Speaker 1: Oh my mo. I definitely haven't had anything remotely cool.
Speaker 1: But like, that's amazing.
Speaker 2: A lot of white fish. I mean I went fishing.
Speaker 2: I fully, like helped a fisherman like nets in the
Speaker 2: lake on his little boat, and I was like pulling
Speaker 2: fish and he was bopping them on the head like unconscious,
Speaker 2: and like some of them were still flopping in this
Speaker 2: bucket and in the water, and like I thought I'd
Speaker 2: have feelings for them, like I am a compassionate person
Speaker 2: that does like animals. I felt nothing for these fish.
Speaker 2: They were flopping for air. It's not a p you're
Speaker 2: not interested. I bled a fish out, he held it,
Speaker 2: and I stabbed it in its neck as blood poured out,
Speaker 2: and I felt nothing.
Speaker 1: You went full yellow jackets over in Finland. Huh.
Speaker 2: I did well because it's like I either Paris Hilton
Speaker 2: and go I don't know, or I fucking act respectful
Speaker 2: and do the job with these fishermen where it's like
Speaker 2: this is this guy's had this fishing company since nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty seven, you know, what I mean. Like, so to me,
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just gonna do what they do.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna like be offensive. But then I also
Speaker 2: had to question, like what's wrong with I felt that
Speaker 2: they were looking at me different.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a pescytarian. I don't know. Fish don't
Speaker 1: make any noise. It's not like they're like no like
Speaker 1: as you you know, like you no just swarming around.
Speaker 1: But it felt great.
Speaker 2: It was just like grabbing these fish with my bare
Speaker 2: hands as they flipped and flopped in my hand.
Speaker 1: I mean it was like it was I challenge. Cannot
Speaker 1: wait to like fucking crash in a plane with you,
Speaker 1: and you keep us alive by catching fish with your
Speaker 1: bare hands. It's gonna be amazing. Yeah. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: a knife soon. Yeah fuck yeah, just don't forget to
Speaker 1: put it in your check luggage. My fucking crazy dad
Speaker 1: always goes through security with a knife on his belt
Speaker 1: and forgets. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: There was a little dog training at the airport today
Speaker 2: learning how to be a drug dog. But it kept
Speaker 2: harassing people that like might have just had lunch, you know,
Speaker 2: cause it was a job that was training. And I
Speaker 2: was like, you're like panicking a lot of people right now,
Speaker 2: can you take your puppy away? Like this old couple
Speaker 2: was having a heart attack.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Watch the old couple just had so much coke strapped
Speaker 1: to the inside of their shirts.
Speaker 2: No, but one of the other comedians I was with
Speaker 2: the park Rangers gifted her an axe. But she's also
Speaker 2: like from South Africa, not a citizen like all of
Speaker 2: these things, and with an axe, and she did get
Speaker 2: held in customs for a while.
Speaker 1: Oh my god because of the axe.
Speaker 2: I didn't ask cause I didn't want to message her
Speaker 2: just in case they were going to use her phone,
Speaker 2: like I didn't know how deep.
Speaker 1: It was going to go.
Speaker 2: I was like yeah, I was like, we can't message
Speaker 2: her about the acts.
Speaker 1: You thought so many steps ahead. I love it. Okay,
Speaker 1: a massive intro because we haven't caught up in a
Speaker 1: long time, because you haven't seen so we're going to
Speaker 1: be in New York.
Speaker 2: So next week's intro is going to be even more
Speaker 2: exciting because it's going to be stories about us being RecA.
Speaker 1: Yes and going to see our friend Allison Levey show,
Speaker 1: which we have plugged a million times, which I believe. Well,
Speaker 1: actually it was extended so I believe it's playing the
Speaker 1: whole second half of June. If you're in New York
Speaker 1: and you haven't gotten tickets to Oh God, an Hour
Speaker 1: about Abortion at the Cherry Lane, please go get them.
Speaker 1: You guys don't want to miss it. We're seeing it
Speaker 1: this week and we're so excited. A couple more little
Speaker 1: pluggy plugs. I am going to be a guest on
Speaker 1: another Exactly Right podcast called parent Footprint, which is a
Speaker 1: podcast about parenting. If you're interested. The host is doctor
Speaker 1: Dan and he is is really charming and lovely to
Speaker 1: listen to. And we just talked about parenting and stuff
Speaker 1: and we had a great time. And that comes out
Speaker 1: on June sixteenth, if you're interested on the Exactly Right Network.
Speaker 1: And then, guys, you know, I'm gonna tell you we
Speaker 1: are coming to Minnesota. Minneapolis this weekend, the nineteenth of June.
Speaker 1: It's Father's Day, but it's in the afternoon. Take a
Speaker 1: break from your dad or your husband, or whoever is
Speaker 1: the father figure in your life and come see us
Speaker 1: at the I don't know, it's the Minneapolis Comedy Festival
Speaker 1: all It's.
Speaker 2: A venue a little too big for us. It's gonna
Speaker 2: be a problem.
Speaker 1: We really need you guys, We really need Minneapolis to
Speaker 1: like turn out because you know, they booked us in
Speaker 1: something that I think was a little ambitious. Where they
Speaker 1: did it book us in a place that was the
Speaker 1: ambitious was Chicago. And we are almost sold out. We
Speaker 1: are very likely going to be sold out on the
Speaker 1: twentieth by the time this episode comes out, but I
Speaker 1: believe there's still a few tickets left for the twenty
Speaker 1: first that's a Tuesday of June twenty first of June.
Speaker 1: Come see us at Zanies Downtown. And yeah, our bio
Speaker 1: has all on Instagram, has all of or that's messed up.
Speaker 1: Live dot com actually is where you can find all
Speaker 1: of our tickets in my hometown. Bitch. Also, this is
Speaker 1: old news, but new news.
Speaker 2: But we did get reports from a costume department person
Speaker 2: from Law and Order SVU or no she works she
Speaker 2: made it was.
Speaker 1: A friend of hers who worked there. Like, so the listeners,
Speaker 1: why don't ask your friend? Well, a listener asked their
Speaker 1: friend who works in the costume department, Like, is there
Speaker 1: anything to this whole purple thing? I listened to this
Speaker 1: podcast where they're obsessed with the fact that everyone's always
Speaker 1: wearing purple, and we know it's the color of domestic violence,
Speaker 1: and there's all these other theories everyone has. And the
Speaker 1: woman that wrote back from a costume department was like,
Speaker 1: literally no, like there's nothing to that. Like a lot
Speaker 1: of times, because it's so dark where they shoot, certain
Speaker 1: colors like teal or red will show up as purple,
Speaker 1: but it's not a conscious thing that they're doing, and
Speaker 1: it's not about domestic violence. I guess that's just a
Speaker 1: coincidence and we're all colorblind. I don't really know, but
Speaker 1: that's that on that I don't know the costume Tea Hunty, Yes, Hunty.
Speaker 2: Did you see the video of Gigi Hadid and Emma
Speaker 2: Chamberlain on the red carpet of the met gala talking
Speaker 2: like two gay men from like two years ago?
Speaker 1: No, it's like pretty funny.
Speaker 2: It's she's just like, oh my god, I saw you
Speaker 2: and you slay. She goes, is slay major, sligh, You're
Speaker 2: a major. So I did see this. I did see this.
Speaker 1: I don't think I knew it was Emmer Chamberlin, but
Speaker 1: I saw I saw the Gigi doing that.
Speaker 2: That way, we have oh my god, Cravis the wedding,
Speaker 2: I mean we have to go. I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do, but do you have any thoughts on the
Speaker 2: Cravis wedding.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I'm happy for
Speaker 1: those two when I see their posts. I'm like the
Speaker 1: Kardashians in general, I'm like enough, but like those two.
Speaker 1: And Corney's always been the most boring one to me.
Speaker 1: And she looks like she seems like she's dead to
Speaker 1: me all the time, like her eyes are dead, her
Speaker 1: voice is dead, and she seems a little bit more
Speaker 1: alive with Travis, and so I like that. I want
Speaker 1: them to live and be alive together.
Speaker 2: I watched his architectural digest on YouTube, and I always
Speaker 2: love when celebrities think things that are very regular only
Speaker 2: special to them.
Speaker 1: So he was like, yeah, we're just so.
Speaker 2: In love and we really go all out on Christmas
Speaker 2: and our birthdays. And I was like, yeah, that's like
Speaker 2: a very normal thing to do to just like get
Speaker 2: your partner a nice gift on holiday and.
Speaker 1: Tell me you're going all out on Flag Day, bitch,
Speaker 1: I want to do something different.
Speaker 2: So then he goes, yeah, she was holding this candle
Speaker 2: and was like, you gave this to me three years ago.
Speaker 2: And he's like we're just so connected, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: you're just so cut off from the regular world, like
Speaker 2: you're truly a regular couple. But it seems sweet and
Speaker 2: they like their kids, all like each other. I just
Speaker 2: wish the best for them. Yeah, yeah, but I don't
Speaker 2: care about that card oct Oh. I do have fucking gossip,
Speaker 2: but I don't know.
Speaker 1: If it's mine, it's hell. And he seems like a
Speaker 1: good guy because I saw him doing a makeup tutorial
Speaker 1: with like his teen child and I thought that was
Speaker 1: really sweet, Like she was doing a tattoo cover up
Speaker 1: on him and he was like her model, and I
Speaker 1: thought that was really cute. So I think he seems
Speaker 1: like a good guy. Anyway, let's start this. We could
Speaker 1: talk about God, we have to start. We have to
Speaker 1: be like we have to literally be like Race Chaser,
Speaker 1: where we start a separate podcast called hot Goss where
Speaker 1: we just talk about other shit that doesn't have to
Speaker 1: do with drag, right, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: they do a podcast, Why would you like talk about
Speaker 1: their own shit? Yeah? Kay, I have to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2: From Sex and the City, just like that. Chay is
Speaker 2: on the cover of a magazine Saw I see that.
Speaker 1: Saw all the fashion. Chay is back in the fucking site. Guys, babies,
Speaker 1: all right, let's start this episode. We've got a good
Speaker 1: one for you, guys. Don't move a muscle, Okay, So
Speaker 1: we are covering today Stolen Season three, episode three. Exciting.
Speaker 1: This is a wow, very close to nine to eleven episode.
Speaker 1: I just realized the air date is ten twelve, two
Speaker 1: thousand and one. And okay. The episode opens in a
Speaker 1: grocery store and this new mom is like carding her
Speaker 1: baby along with her, and she asks the stock boy
Speaker 1: like where's the baby formula? And then she leaves the
Speaker 1: cart with the baby in it at the top of
Speaker 1: the aisle. And I don't really have a problem with that.
Speaker 1: It's just there's no reason for it. Like she walks
Speaker 1: over to a place where there's so much space to
Speaker 1: park a grocery cart and starts loading up formula into
Speaker 1: her arms, and it's like, it's not like it was
Speaker 1: a weird corner where you couldn't fit the stroller. So
Speaker 1: she leaves it at the top of the aisle. And
Speaker 1: I get it that this is a cold open of
Speaker 1: a television show and we have a tragedy to get to.
Speaker 1: But it just seemed weird to me. And then she
Speaker 1: gets all this formula and she starts walking back to
Speaker 1: the cart and done, done, the baby is gone. She's like, Emma,
Speaker 1: she starts, she drops all the formula, starts screaming, my baby.
Speaker 1: Someone stole my baby, and then we cut to Benson
Speaker 1: and Stabler on the scene getting the run down from
Speaker 1: a uniform cop. The baby is six weeks old. It's
Speaker 1: very young. Emma dera check. And Stabler's immediately blaming the mom,
Speaker 1: and I know I kind of did as well, but
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, one second solid takes, but
Speaker 1: mine was just like, logistically, I really don't have a
Speaker 1: problem with leaving a baby for two seconds, but I
Speaker 1: guess someone could take them, and that's what this episode
Speaker 1: is proving. And Stabler's like, oh no, sorry. I wrote
Speaker 1: a note where I was like, okay, Stabler, you never
Speaker 1: answered a call from Live while you were watching Dicky
Speaker 1: at a supermarket like ease up. And then they're searching
Speaker 1: the whole store and the mom has checked all the
Speaker 1: other babies that were in the store and none of
Speaker 1: them are her baby. And then a uniform shows up
Speaker 1: and is like the Motor Vehicle office down the Street
Speaker 1: just found something in the ladies room, and it's like,
Speaker 1: this is the second episode we've done recently where SVU
Speaker 1: likes to act like the DMV is helpful, Like I
Speaker 1: just cannot believe that the DMV is like, hey, we've
Speaker 1: we found some clothes in your case, like right as
Speaker 1: it's unfolding, but you know, we love a good fiction.
Speaker 1: So in the bathroom of the Motor Vehicle office, they
Speaker 1: find baby's clothes and I drop her and some capsules
Speaker 1: which and Live identifies the drug as librium and she
Speaker 1: thinks that they just like watered it down and gave
Speaker 1: it to the baby to be quiet. And they also
Speaker 1: find a baby's pink bow with a lock of hair
Speaker 1: cut off, and it's like, you can just remove the bow,
Speaker 1: like most babies have pretty short hair and it's not
Speaker 1: going to really give away the gender or the sex.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, like it's weird. So anyway, yeah, like you
Speaker 1: could just take the bow out. I get the bow
Speaker 1: as an identifying thing. They're like, so there's the creepy
Speaker 1: like little lock of baby hair that's being sort of
Speaker 1: passed around and you know it's that's the credits, and
Speaker 1: we're like, where's this fucking baby. This is stressful. So
Speaker 1: back at the store, the mom Michelle is like, how
Speaker 1: could this happen? And I looked her up because she
Speaker 1: looked so familiar to me. And her name is Carrie
Speaker 1: Green and she was in Goonies, she was in Summer Rental,
Speaker 1: and she was in the movie Lucas, which are were
Speaker 1: like big movies that came out for me, like around
Speaker 1: the same time. Like I remember watching Lucas all the time.
Speaker 1: It was with one of the Cory's I think is
Speaker 1: in Lucas. I think Corey Haim is in Lucas. And
Speaker 1: she just had a few years of being a teen
Speaker 1: queen in movies and now she just like doesn't act anymore.
Speaker 1: But she that this SV I think was her last
Speaker 1: thing that she did. But I just thought that was
Speaker 1: interesting that I thought I recognized her, and it's from
Speaker 1: her being a literal eighteen year old. And so they're like,
Speaker 1: is anyone do you have you noticed anyone watching you?
Speaker 1: Have you noticed anyone paying attention to the baby? Weirdly?
Speaker 1: And she's like, stop girling me, and she's blaming herself
Speaker 1: and she's really freaking out. And then her husband Tony
Speaker 1: gets there.
Speaker 2: So I really hate when the people are like, stop
Speaker 2: asking me questions and go get my baby. It's like
Speaker 2: they have to ask you some questions.
Speaker 1: Like they have to.
Speaker 2: It's such a trope of like why are you wasting
Speaker 2: your time talking to me? And it's like the one witness, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the one person who was there, we gotta ask.
Speaker 1: You questions completely. Her husband Tony gets there and her husband.
Speaker 2: This is actually a jam packed episode of SV I
Speaker 2: mean at Sex and the City.
Speaker 1: It's like one of the only guys I didn't click on,
Speaker 1: so tell me.
Speaker 2: He is the guy that tells Samantha she needs to
Speaker 2: trim her bush and she gets offended and then she's like, honestly,
Speaker 2: it's like a jungle down there. And then she like
Speaker 2: shaves his bush and he goes, wow, my dick looks huge.
Speaker 2: And so I think they fought in the cab, like
Speaker 2: for a cab. But yeah, one of Samantha's conquests.
Speaker 1: Got this guy. I there's another Sex in the City
Speaker 1: down the line that I'm gonna note too. That's why
Speaker 1: I said it was Jampack. Okay, yeah yeah yeah. So
Speaker 1: he's like, well, good thing you're here. Stabler's like, we
Speaker 1: need your help. Calming your wife down, and the guy's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: story of my life. She's apparently been having a tough
Speaker 1: time because being a mom is hard, but these guys
Speaker 1: are like, I wish you would just chill out. And
Speaker 1: the husband reveals that this is the first time Michelle
Speaker 1: has been out of the house with Emma, so yeah,
Speaker 1: six weeks she's been stuck in the house with a newborn,
Speaker 1: and Stabler is trying to tell the husband that his
Speaker 1: wife is probably going through some postpartum depression and he's like, yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1: if I thought she'd hurt the baby, i'd take her away.
Speaker 1: But that's like, also very much not the point. And
Speaker 1: I think this is another way where sv is ahead
Speaker 1: of its time, Like this is two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: We're talking about postpartum depression on a network show. I
Speaker 1: don't really think that they were doing that a lot
Speaker 1: at that point, So bravo to SVU. And in the
Speaker 1: next scene, they're downloading Craigan and it seems like they're
Speaker 1: talking about Michelle, like how Michelle could be the one
Speaker 1: who got rid of her baby in a postpartum depression
Speaker 1: fuel break of some sort, and Craigan's like, would she
Speaker 1: have been rational enough to plant the clothes, and Stabler's like,
Speaker 1: I can't rule it out, and it's like, actually, yes,
Speaker 1: you can rule it out. The stock boy saw her
Speaker 1: with the baby right there, and then was there two
Speaker 1: seconds later when she was screaming. That's hardly a window
Speaker 1: of time to plant baby clothes at a DMV office
Speaker 1: down the street. So I really think you can rule
Speaker 1: that shit out right now, But I digress. Craigan thinks
Speaker 1: it could just have also been someone desperate for a
Speaker 1: baby who just grabbed the baby, and he tells Stabler
Speaker 1: go back to the mom and figure it out. And
Speaker 1: then Stabler tries to you know, commiserate parent to parent
Speaker 1: with Michelle about how hard it is, and Michelle agrees.
Speaker 1: She's like it is hard, but she's like, I'm so
Speaker 1: blessed to have Emma and I love her so much.
Speaker 1: Like there's absolutely no confession, no breakdown happening here for Michelle.
Speaker 1: Now they've got some kind of mobile unit that's happening
Speaker 1: that they brought to be right outside the grocery store,
Speaker 1: and they're sending out all these apbs for Emma all
Speaker 1: over the place, and Munch is like, all we found
Speaker 1: was a woman with a suitcase in her shopping cart,
Speaker 1: and they're like, go check the and it's like, why
Speaker 1: was this not the very first move before we accuse
Speaker 1: the sad mom? Why did we not go straight to
Speaker 1: the grocery store security tapes. But anyway, Finn's with the
Speaker 1: security guard and he goes, someone's watching this all day
Speaker 1: and the guy goes, this is not a Vegas casino,
Speaker 1: and I thought that was funny. Like, no, nobody's like
Speaker 1: watching the grocery store security cameras like a hawk to
Speaker 1: see if anyone's stealing cucumbers. So they see a woman
Speaker 1: swoop by Michelle's cart grab the baby on tape, but
Speaker 1: they can't see her face. It's like from behind, and
Speaker 1: that obviously clears Michelle. And then they get another camera
Speaker 1: angle on the exit and they see this lady wheeling
Speaker 1: a suitcase out of the store. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the baby is in there. I guess. I don't know
Speaker 1: how she went to the DMV office to drug the baby.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a little bit confusing of an episode.
Speaker 1: It's only season three. I don't know if they've got
Speaker 1: the well oiled machine happening yet. But and now we're
Speaker 1: back in the SVU mobile home, and Craigan's like, all right,
Speaker 1: let's rule out the mom for the moment, and it's
Speaker 1: like maybe forever. And then they found the show where
Speaker 1: this lady bought the suitcase and she paid with a
Speaker 1: credit card under the name Susan Young and she works
Speaker 1: at social services. So now we've tracked down Susan Young
Speaker 1: in a park and she's like, yeah, my purse was
Speaker 1: stolen this morning and from the substance of youth center
Speaker 1: where I work, and they show her a pic of
Speaker 1: the person walking out of the store with a suitcase,
Speaker 1: and she's like, uh, Alicia, And she's like, Alicia's one
Speaker 1: of my clients. She's a crack addict and she was
Speaker 1: doing really well. She'd stopped using since she got pregnant.
Speaker 1: She had the baby last week and it was stillborn.
Speaker 1: And so they're like, do you know where she lives?
Speaker 1: And she's like, of course, I do this as SVU.
Speaker 1: I have her address memorized. And so now we're at
Speaker 1: Alisha's apartment, which looks kind of nice, and so they think, Wow,
Speaker 1: she's got a job, or she's got a sugar daddy,
Speaker 1: you know, And then Stabler's like she's back on the pipe.
Speaker 1: After he finds you know, her like little box of
Speaker 1: drug paraphernalia, and then Live finds a stack of hundreds
Speaker 1: in the closet, so it's like thousands and thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1: And Alisha comes home, sees the cops and makes a
Speaker 1: run for it, so they run down the stairs after her.
Speaker 1: They grab her. They demand to know where the baby is.
Speaker 1: She says she gave Emma away. She had to. She
Speaker 1: promised them a baby and her baby died and they're like,
Speaker 1: who did you promise the baby to, and she's like
Speaker 1: a lawyer, Mark Sandford, I gave the baby to him
Speaker 1: in Chelsea. So now the detectives bust into this brownstone
Speaker 1: in Chelsea where they hear a baby crying. They go upstairs.
Speaker 1: A woman comes to the door and she's on the
Speaker 1: phone with someone saying the police are here. But then
Speaker 1: she tells them, oh, I was on the phone with
Speaker 1: the police, and Olivia's like, really, let me check your
Speaker 1: phone and she did not dial nine one one last,
Speaker 1: So the woman is lying she was calling someone else
Speaker 1: and she's like, I just take care of the babies.
Speaker 1: And then they find this nursery filled with cribs. And
Speaker 1: by the way, this brownstone has nothing in it. It's
Speaker 1: like very sparse, empty brownstone except for like a room
Speaker 1: full of cribs and a woman taking care of them.
Speaker 2: So that definitely like she doesn't even get to sit
Speaker 2: down at work. Yeah there's not one extra chair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even know if there's like a microwave
Speaker 1: to her to make a little ramen. Like this place
Speaker 1: is very empty, and she's like, all these babies were
Speaker 1: given up for adoption. This is just kind of like
Speaker 1: a way station and before they head off to their
Speaker 1: new place, and this is all on the up and up,
Speaker 1: and Elliott goes around looking at all the babies and
Speaker 1: then he IDs Emma from a photo and they arrest
Speaker 1: the caretaker woman for kidnapping. So now at the hospital,
Speaker 1: Elliott and Olivia are downloading Daddy Craigan and they're like
Speaker 1: two girls, one boy is what we found. They're in
Speaker 1: excellent health while taken care of. The brownstone was rented
Speaker 1: to Adoptions Incorporated, very creative, and Mark Sanford signed the lease.
Speaker 1: Someone named Mark Sanford, so they don't know who. So
Speaker 1: like for somebody who is maybe doing something illegal, this
Speaker 1: man's not really covering up very much like everything's under
Speaker 1: his name. Everyone knows his name. It's just Mark Sandford,
Speaker 1: and they don't really know who these other two but
Speaker 1: babies belong to, but they're going to find out. So
Speaker 1: Michelle and Tony get Emma back, and it's a very
Speaker 1: rare happy ending for anyone on Law and Order SVU
Speaker 1: and Tony, you know, side talks to Stabler and goes
Speaker 1: Michelle's going to see a doctor. Oh wow, postpartum depression
Speaker 1: advocate Elliott Stabler everyone, he's done it. And now Munch
Speaker 1: and Finn are interrogating the caretaker and she's like, I'm
Speaker 1: an RN. I was hired to look after the babies.
Speaker 1: And they're like, you didn't think this empty brownstone was
Speaker 1: kind of weird and she's like, they're just chilling there
Speaker 1: before their adopted parents get them. This is all fine.
Speaker 1: Dog Mister Sandford is a saint, she says. And they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: that's very cute. Now give him up or you're an accessory,
Speaker 1: and she's like, okay, his office is in Quegardens. So
Speaker 1: she's very loyal for about two seconds and then she
Speaker 1: gives him right up, as she should well. Also, she
Speaker 1: thinks that nothing is wrong. Why not give him up,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like, exactly, bring him in here,
Speaker 1: clear everything up. This is all normal. Yeah, So they
Speaker 1: catch him, this guy Sandford, leaving his house with his
Speaker 1: briefcase and like a filebox put that he's putting into
Speaker 1: his car, and he immediately is a lawyer, so he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not talking to anyone without my lawyer. So they
Speaker 1: arrest him for kidnapping. And this actor is named Bruce Altman.
Speaker 1: He has a one hundred and eleven credits. I've seen him.
Speaker 1: He was a very big character on Mister Robot, and
Speaker 1: he's also been in Orange as the New Black, and
Speaker 1: this is his only SVU, but he's been on seven
Speaker 1: episodes of Original Recipe as well. So I just thought
Speaker 1: that felt like he was one of these you see
Speaker 1: him everywhere kind of guys. So he's now talking in
Speaker 1: interrogation with his lawyer and he's like, I've never put
Speaker 1: an abducted child up for adoption. And his lawyer is
Speaker 1: our old pal Josh Peis aka Hank Abraham, but in
Speaker 1: this episode he's Robert Sorenson, so he plays He does
Speaker 1: three episodes as Sorensen and then he does seven episodes
Speaker 1: of sv You later as Hank Abraham, and I think
Speaker 1: he looks better with gray hair.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you like a better gray daddie like him
Speaker 2: as a brunette here was very off putting to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he looked weird and young, and yeah, so
Speaker 1: many men just age. They look better at the age.
Speaker 1: And so he's like, listen, Alicia gave a baby to
Speaker 1: me two years ago. She hit me up again when
Speaker 1: she was pregnant again. I had no reason to believe
Speaker 1: that the baby wasn't hers, Like, I've had one successful
Speaker 1: adoption with her. And they're like, oh yeah, and then
Speaker 1: you also like load her up with cash that she'll
Speaker 1: give you her babies or whatever. And he's like, that's
Speaker 1: for expenses and medical fees. And they're like, he gets
Speaker 1: a very nominal fee from the parents, a very modest fee,
Speaker 1: and it's like twenty thousand dollars per couple. So this
Speaker 1: man is getting paid. And then Cabot's watching this all
Speaker 1: go down across the one way glass as usual, and
Speaker 1: she's like, I don't know, guys, kidnapping is a stretch.
Speaker 1: We can't prove he knew what Alicia did. And if
Speaker 1: you prove he sold Emma. It's grand larceny. And Craigin's like,
Speaker 1: this is a person, not a lexus. What are you
Speaker 1: talking about? And Cabot's like, look, we can hold him
Speaker 1: for six days on the kidnapping, can you make a
Speaker 1: case in that time? So off we go to try
Speaker 1: to make that happen. Finn and Munch are to quote
Speaker 1: Craig and surfing the web and they're on Sanford's website
Speaker 1: that looks like a Craigslist for adoption. It's like, here's
Speaker 1: a little blue eyed girl that just wants to make
Speaker 1: you her mommy or whatever. It's weird, and Finn asks
Speaker 1: Munch if he's ever considered adoption, and Munch goes, the
Speaker 1: kindest thing I could ever do for a kid is
Speaker 1: not adopt. So I love that Munch is proudly child free.
Speaker 1: Love that for him. Finn is running down Sanford's history,
Speaker 1: and Munch has a ledger of Sanford's and reads out
Speaker 1: all these babies' birthdays and I don't know why, he's
Speaker 1: just like reading birthdays out loud, and one is a
Speaker 1: baby boy born January second, nineteen eighty nine, and that
Speaker 1: piques Craigan's interest and Craigan's like, how do I find
Speaker 1: out this baby's name? They figure out the corresponding page
Speaker 1: and he's like Steven Talmadge, and Craigan looks like he
Speaker 1: just struck gold, and Munch and Finn are just like,
Speaker 1: nothing's registering for us here. Craig's like, we don't know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. So Craigan takes off, and of
Speaker 1: course this is an old case of Kragan's where he
Speaker 1: remembers the missing baby's birthday exactly, and he's at a diner.
Speaker 1: It's a diner in the title card. It looks like
Speaker 1: much more of like a dark sort of restaurant bar,
Speaker 1: but they're calling it a diner, and he's giving Munch
Speaker 1: and therefore us the viewers the rundown. He's talking about
Speaker 1: how in eighty nine, a woman named Jennifer Talmadge was
Speaker 1: found murdered in her apartment. Her four week old son,
Speaker 1: Stephen was taken from there and never found. Both the
Speaker 1: case of the mom and the child are still open,
Speaker 1: and his old buddy, Max Greevy was the cop on
Speaker 1: the case and he worked it really hard until he
Speaker 1: was murdered on the job in ninety one. And so
Speaker 1: now Munch is like, wow, this case has been kicking
Speaker 1: your ass for twelve years. And Craigan's like, I just
Speaker 1: know Stephen is still alive and this is a huge
Speaker 1: lead after twelve years. And he's like, yeah, Jennifer Talmage's
Speaker 1: parents call used to call me once a year on
Speaker 1: Steven's birthday for updates, but the call stopped three years ago.
Speaker 1: So he's like, Munch, I really need your help with
Speaker 1: the case. And Munch is like, oh yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1: So Craigan shows up at a front door and when
Speaker 1: it opens, the woman goes, oh, my lord. She is
Speaker 1: so happy to see Captain Craigan. And this is an
Speaker 1: actress named Celia Weston, who you've seen in everything, I
Speaker 1: think most recently she was on the Thing about Pam
Speaker 1: on NBC with Rene Zawegger. And their house is really
Speaker 1: big and old and like handcrafted. Look it's like a
Speaker 1: cool sort of like it looks like it would be
Speaker 1: in like Vermont, like Massachusetts or something, but it's probably
Speaker 1: in up Hudson River Valley, New York or something. And
Speaker 1: so they bring Craigan upstairs to show him Steven's room
Speaker 1: and they're like, we celebrate all his birthdays. We buy
Speaker 1: him presents every Christmas. And the room is like a
Speaker 1: full toy store store, like they've never lost hope. They've
Speaker 1: got this whole room with like bikes and all kinds
Speaker 1: of great shit for Steven, like should he ever reappear?
Speaker 1: So now in this holding cell, Craigan and Cabot are
Speaker 1: talking to Stanford and his lawyer again, and Craigan is
Speaker 1: very antsy. He's like, you killed Jennifer and you sold Steven,
Speaker 1: and Cabot is like, let me offer you a deal
Speaker 1: if you cooperate, and Craigan's like, the deal's good for
Speaker 1: ten seconds, and the lawyer's like you're bluffing, and Craigan's like, nah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna nail your ass to the wall. And then
Speaker 1: he bounces out of there, and Stanford and the lawyer
Speaker 1: look kind of concerned, but it's like they barely gave
Speaker 1: them a second to consider a deal. And then Cabot
Speaker 1: chases Craig Craigan out and is like what the fuck, dude,
Speaker 1: Like I could have used that kidnapping charge as leverage
Speaker 1: if you just hadn't gone all macho cop on me,
Speaker 1: Like what the hell, and Cabot's like you're too close
Speaker 1: to this case. And he's like, damn right, So this
Speaker 1: is a Craigan episode. This is a damn Floric heavy episode.
Speaker 1: So Munch is working the case and he's looked at
Speaker 1: the file and he's like most interviews just said Jennifer
Speaker 1: was a great person. No leads. There was only one
Speaker 1: set of prints at the scene and there are no
Speaker 1: matches in you know, Cotis or whatever does fingerprints. And
Speaker 1: Craigan checks in with Elliott and Olivia on the other babies.
Speaker 1: They're all set to join their new homes. Sandford did
Speaker 1: everything by the book. The parents consented to the adoption,
Speaker 1: all the paperwork is good, like he's everything's on the
Speaker 1: up and up. They do find out that Sandford is
Speaker 1: triple dipping. He basically tells three families he's got a
Speaker 1: baby for them, and then he tells two of the
Speaker 1: families the mom changed her mind and keeps the money.
Speaker 1: And that's thirty thousand dollars per couple. So he's making
Speaker 1: ninety k per baby. And this is in two thousand
Speaker 1: and one, and it is fucked up, Like, I do
Speaker 1: have a friend going through the adoption process right now,
Speaker 1: and it is really crazy because you pour a ton
Speaker 1: of money into it, and then you have like literally
Speaker 1: no insurance like it can just so, yeah, he's shady.
Speaker 1: He's not putting up. I don't think he's kidnapping babies
Speaker 1: or killing people per se, but he is shady for sure,
Speaker 1: And it just sucks that there's already no insurance for
Speaker 1: parents that are trying to adopt in the adoption world,
Speaker 1: and then to have lawyers be greedy and dishonest, is
Speaker 1: it's like an extra hurdle to becoming a parent for
Speaker 1: these people. It just sucks. So they find out that
Speaker 1: none of these parents snitch on him because they don't
Speaker 1: want to get blackballed by other baby brokers, and it's
Speaker 1: just really fucked how the whole adoption system is even working.
Speaker 1: But Thinn finds Sandford's old phone records, and Craigan's like,
Speaker 1: all right, everybody dig in, just like handing out thick
Speaker 1: ass folders of phone numbers to everybody, and Munch is like, well,
Speaker 1: there was something about Jennifer's roommate Rebecca in the file
Speaker 1: where Greevy was supposed to file up with him but
Speaker 1: then never did, and so Munch hends that heads out
Speaker 1: to Westchester County to talk to Rebecca, this roommate. This
Speaker 1: seems insane that you would not talk to her college roommate.
Speaker 1: And she said that Jennifer had one boyfriend, a guy
Speaker 1: named Rob, and Rebecca knew he was trouble when he
Speaker 1: walked in. I'm not allowed to sing that, but I
Speaker 1: think you guys know what I'm saying. And she had
Speaker 1: seen him walking around campus with another girl, so she
Speaker 1: knew he was a two timer, but she was like,
Speaker 1: jen was naive. He was her first. They went out
Speaker 1: for two weeks before he broke up with her, and
Speaker 1: then they're like, did he give a reason? And she goes,
Speaker 1: guys never do, okay, and then she says, did you
Speaker 1: know she was pregnant. She's like yeah, she couldn't really
Speaker 1: hide it, and she knew Rob was the father and
Speaker 1: she tells them, yeah, his name was Rob Cook. So
Speaker 1: this woman has all this fucking information and has just
Speaker 1: been sitting there for twelve years just knowing who the
Speaker 1: father of this murdered woman's baby is. And they definitely
Speaker 1: would have found out who the father was in the
Speaker 1: first investigation, Like they would have figured that out somehow, emails,
Speaker 1: phone calls, like they would have figured out who impregnated her,
Speaker 1: because he would have been a suspect. So it's really, well,
Speaker 1: they only dated for time two weeks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if she's pregnant nine months later, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: they should have talked to the roommate, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Like and the roommate is the only one that knows
Speaker 1: about Rob. I don't know. It just doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: two weeks. They only dated two weeks. I know, but
Speaker 1: you're in college and you're like, you've got like a
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I just feel like you wouldn't
Speaker 1: only one, not one friend would know that. Like a
Speaker 1: bunch of my friends would know. If I was dating
Speaker 1: someone for two weeks, or even if I hooked up
Speaker 1: with someone one night, a bunch of my friends would know.
Speaker 1: Probably I don't know, but I just think that this
Speaker 1: something about who the paternity of a father would have
Speaker 1: come up in the investigation, and it's just kind of strange.
Speaker 1: But Rebecca said, oh yeah. They're like, oh, did she
Speaker 1: ever let the father know? And Rebecca goes, yes, she
Speaker 1: sent him a letter. So now Munch and Cragan journey
Speaker 1: back to the Burbs, where they find Rob Cook playing
Speaker 1: catch with his sons on a grassy lawn. It's very Pleasantville.
Speaker 1: And the actor is David Aaron Baker who's playing the father.
Speaker 1: And he's been on Anther SPU called Infected. I don't
Speaker 1: recall that right away who he was or what that
Speaker 1: episode is, but he's a law and order he's a
Speaker 1: dick Wolf standby. He's been on Original Recipe, Criminal Incent,
Speaker 1: Trial by Jury, and two svus. So this man is
Speaker 1: in Dick Wolf's rolodex. And he was also in an
Speaker 1: episode of Sex and the City as Ted in an
Speaker 1: episode called Secret Sex. And he's a sports doctor who
Speaker 1: Miranda fucks, and he likes spanking videos. But you knew
Speaker 1: that right, Yes, I do remember him. I just remember
Speaker 1: her punching him by accident. I just remember that part.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I remember the spanking videos. So
Speaker 1: they want to see a birth certificate for his son
Speaker 1: because his son is around the age that Steven Talmadge
Speaker 1: would be. And Rob Cook says, my wife has it.
Speaker 1: My ex wife. She's in Maya Pak and we were
Speaker 1: recently divorced. And they tell him this is about Jennifer.
Speaker 1: Her son disappeared, and we think you're the father. So
Speaker 1: now they are in interrogation with him, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I read about Jennifer. We were in the paper. I
Speaker 1: didn't think the child was mine. We only slept together
Speaker 1: like one time. And it's like, I guess you don't
Speaker 1: know how pregnancy works, and Munch does back me up
Speaker 1: on that, and he's like, yeah, it just takes one time.
Speaker 1: So again, completely to me, unbelievable that they would not
Speaker 1: have talked to this man. But I guess you're right.
Speaker 1: It has been nine months and they only dated for
Speaker 1: a short amount of time. But he tells just to me,
Speaker 1: they're saying that this man, Max Greeby, worked this case
Speaker 1: for years like it was his own child, and so
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, he should have talked to the roommate.
Speaker 1: He's a dumb bitch.
Speaker 2: But in terms of like lots of people know or
Speaker 2: like who it was, it seems like she didn't have
Speaker 2: friends and was naive, and yeah, that makes sense to me,
Speaker 2: but yeah, yeah, yeah, the roommate.
Speaker 1: Of it all does not make sense. But like, and
Speaker 1: if I were the roommate, I would have gone to
Speaker 1: the police and been like, did you guys ever talk
Speaker 1: to Rob Cook, Like, did you talk to the father
Speaker 1: of the baby, like if my friend from college got murdered.
Speaker 1: But it also seemed like their friendship was weird because
Speaker 1: they were like, were you guys close? And she's like,
Speaker 1: we were roommates. It was weird. So he's like, listen,
Speaker 1: Jennifer was a rebound girl for me, Like I was
Speaker 1: on the ounce with my girlfriend Linda. I did not
Speaker 1: kill Jennifer. I did not know she was pregnant. I
Speaker 1: never got a letter. He's like, I broke up with
Speaker 1: Jennifer because Linda told me she was pregnant. And this
Speaker 1: guy has clearly never even glanced at a condom. And
Speaker 1: he says, we got married as soon as the semester
Speaker 1: was over. And that's Brandon, our son, and that kind
Speaker 1: of explains why he has this baby that's similar age
Speaker 1: to the missing boy. So now we're with Melinda, who
Speaker 1: is swabbing the son Brandon, while his mom, Linda is like,
Speaker 1: do we have to all do this? Like this is
Speaker 1: you know, she's that woman who's very much like against
Speaker 1: finding out who killed someone. And then she bickers with
Speaker 1: Rob about why how he couldn't keep it in his
Speaker 1: pants and Rob is like, we were kids, Like you
Speaker 1: need to let go of this thing that happened twelve
Speaker 1: years ago. And then Linda refuses the swab and wants
Speaker 1: an attorney, and then they threaten her with a contempt charge,
Speaker 1: so she just does it. So back at the precinct, well,
Speaker 1: she has like a killer line hold on. She goes,
Speaker 1: I do have contempt for this or something? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: have plenty of contempt for this. Yeah I thought was fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I looked her up and was like, oh, she seems
Speaker 1: like a kind of like a good play is a
Speaker 1: good bitch? Like who is she? And I don't think
Speaker 1: she's really done much more acting. But back at the precinct,
Speaker 1: the DNA has proven that Brandon is the son of
Speaker 1: Linda and Rob and has nothing to do with Jennifer.
Speaker 1: And then Finn finds something Steven Talmuch's adoption papers signed
Speaker 1: by his mother, and then so that's a twist. We
Speaker 1: did not know that Jennifer was even considering giving her
Speaker 1: baby up for adoption, and now they're like, now it
Speaker 1: looks like they're signed, and that's what was given to Sanford.
Speaker 1: So Craigan's talking to Jennifer's parents and they're like, no way,
Speaker 1: it's impossible Jennifer had considered adoption early on, but had
Speaker 1: changed her mind when we offered her financial support emotional support,
Speaker 1: said we would watch Stephen while she so she could
Speaker 1: finish school, like kind of, you know, a perfect parental
Speaker 1: reaction to a young pregnancy. So when they show the
Speaker 1: adoption papers to the parents, the parents were like, that
Speaker 1: is not her signature. There's no way in how my
Speaker 1: parents know what my signature looks like do you think
Speaker 1: your parents know what your signature looks like, Lisa, No, yeah,
Speaker 1: they would never be able to be like that's not it.
Speaker 1: They would have to for sure bring out a passport,
Speaker 1: which is what they do. They get Jennifer's passport to
Speaker 1: prove that this is not her signature, not even close.
Speaker 1: Back in a holding cell with Sanford, Craigan shows him
Speaker 1: the forged signature and tells him like, you're fucked, Like
Speaker 1: this is not a legal adoption, and he's like, I
Speaker 1: did not forge this signature, and Cabot's like, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: actually just a criminal who defrauds couples desperate for babies,
Speaker 1: so a jury will buy that you did do this,
Speaker 1: so you're definitely screwed. And he nods to his lawyer
Speaker 1: like all right, let's make a deal, and Cabot's like, okay,
Speaker 1: here's what's on the table. No jail time, and you
Speaker 1: pay back all the couples you defrauded. And Craigan adds,
Speaker 1: and you give me Stephen Talmadge. And he says, Okay,
Speaker 1: a woman came to me with a baby claiming to
Speaker 1: be his mother. She had the original birth certificate. I
Speaker 1: had no idea she was a fake. And then I
Speaker 1: saw Jennifer's pick in the paper. But I couldn't risk
Speaker 1: go And they're like, but you couldn't risk going to
Speaker 1: the police because you're a dirt bag and a criminal,
Speaker 1: and he was like, yeah, pretty much. So like you
Speaker 1: could have left him at a firehouse or something, but
Speaker 1: instead you like put him up for adoption when he
Speaker 1: had family out there and you just wanted money. So
Speaker 1: it's pretty fucked up. Cragan demands the adopted family's information.
Speaker 1: So now again we're in the burbs. This is a
Speaker 1: very in and out of the city episode. Craigan rings
Speaker 1: the doorbell and we're at the little sign on the
Speaker 1: door says like, welcome to the Blake's. So we're at
Speaker 1: the Blake's house and inside there's like a bunch of
Speaker 1: boys in baseball uniforms, because apparently that's what everyone's doing
Speaker 1: out there, is playing baseball, America's pastime. And the mom
Speaker 1: comes downstairs and is like, boys, Tyler, go outside with
Speaker 1: your friends and welcomes the cops in because I guess
Speaker 1: in this universe everyone loves the cops. And Craigan looks
Speaker 1: at Tyler like they share a look when he leaves,
Speaker 1: and so like, yeah, this is clearly Steven. And the
Speaker 1: mom confirms that Tyler was adopted by Mark Sandford, and
Speaker 1: after they tell her, she is really really upset. She's like,
Speaker 1: what am I going to tell my husband? What am
Speaker 1: I going to tell Tyler? And then we see that
Speaker 1: Tyler's standing outside the kitchen and he's listening to this
Speaker 1: whole thing, and he looks like his entire world just
Speaker 1: blew up, because it basically did. And she calls for
Speaker 1: Tyler to come into the kitchen and he's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not going, and they're like, you're not in any trouble,
Speaker 1: and his parents are like, we'll go together. His mom says,
Speaker 1: we'll go together. So it's just really sad because this
Speaker 1: kid just seems like he's living a nice little life
Speaker 1: and now these cops blow in to ruin everything, and
Speaker 1: so now we've got Craigan and Rob Cook are looking
Speaker 1: at Tyler through the one way glass and he's confirming
Speaker 1: to Rob like, yes, Tyler is your biological son. And
Speaker 1: Craigan's like, he's had a good life. They raised him
Speaker 1: as their own child. And Rob's like, but I'm his father.
Speaker 1: He belongs with me. I never would have abandoned him.
Speaker 1: And I just I sort of hate this guy. Even
Speaker 1: though they try to act like all the sides are
Speaker 1: right on this one. I don't like this man. I
Speaker 1: hate him too.
Speaker 2: And there is a good point later on the stand
Speaker 2: where I'm like, Okay, good point, but like let him
Speaker 2: live with his parents and then you can see him
Speaker 2: when you want and you can hang out and be
Speaker 2: a part of his life and grow a relationship. But
Speaker 2: just like, steal this kid from his life is insane.
Speaker 2: Yea his friends, his home is like I hate this
Speaker 2: man too, especially like.
Speaker 1: The age of twelve, like twelve to eighteen, Like those
Speaker 1: years are so like itself to have no relationship. It's
Speaker 1: so selfish.
Speaker 2: It's like he's not thinking of the kid at all.
Speaker 2: He's thinking of himself.
Speaker 1: No, because it's like I don't know. I'm judging that
Speaker 1: they're all in New York suburbs. It's not like anyone
Speaker 1: lives across the country or anything. You could definitely arrange
Speaker 1: some kind of visitation schedule where you like build a relationship,
Speaker 1: like you're saying it's crazy, Yeah, go.
Speaker 2: To medieval times, go to his games. Yeah, the boys
Speaker 2: do play dates. Like you could be a part of
Speaker 2: his life. You don't have to snatch him as your own.
Speaker 1: I hate him and just like and also the two
Speaker 1: v one aspect of moving in with two brothers is
Speaker 1: so like fucked up too. So Craigan is explaining what's
Speaker 1: going on to Tyler Slash Steven's adoptive parents, and they're like,
Speaker 1: we didn't do anything wrong, like he's our son, we've
Speaker 1: raised him. And Craigan says, yeah, but Tyler's father never
Speaker 1: consented to the adoption, so it's nullified like that. It's
Speaker 1: just that's it. And they're really really sad, and they're like,
Speaker 1: you can't take him away from us. He's only ever
Speaker 1: known our home and us as his family. How can
Speaker 1: you do this to us? And like, honestly, Craigan, I'm
Speaker 1: just mad that your old pal Greevy didn't do enough
Speaker 1: to find out like who the dad was, because this
Speaker 1: all could have been avoided. But Cragan, I know. Craigan
Speaker 1: and Cabot are walking, so you bet you're ass. They're
Speaker 1: talking and Cabot's saying she can't find him a foster
Speaker 1: home this late, so she's gonna have to put him
Speaker 1: in a shelter, which Craigan calls a hell hole, and
Speaker 1: he's like, why can't he just go with his maternal grandparents,
Speaker 1: who have a right of natural guardianship, and Cabot's like,
Speaker 1: the law does not give automatic custody to grandparents, and
Speaker 1: then Craigan like flips out on Alex and is like,
Speaker 1: don't think about the law, think about the kid, and
Speaker 1: she's like, don't you think I am. It's like very
Speaker 1: tense with Craigan and Cabot, as it has been the
Speaker 1: whole episode, and you know, Cabot's like, everybody wants a
Speaker 1: piece of Tyler right now. Maybe the best place is
Speaker 1: for him to be somewhere neutral, and Craigan's like, tell
Speaker 1: that to his grandparents, and I also don't think some
Speaker 1: more neutral is like a shelter that Craigan describes as
Speaker 1: really shitty and horrible. But the grandparents are now talking
Speaker 1: to Cragan and they're really upset and they're like, we
Speaker 1: lost our daughter and now you're saying we can't have
Speaker 1: our grandson. And Craigan's like, not unless a judge says
Speaker 1: you can, but you can apply for temporary custody. And
Speaker 1: he breaks the news that Tyler's biological dad, Rob is
Speaker 1: also probably going to claim his parental rights and that
Speaker 1: his rights supersede yours, and they're just like so sad.
Speaker 1: They're like, Jennifer was our only child. This is like
Speaker 1: our only you know, family, and she's the grandmother is
Speaker 1: pissed at Craigan for giving them hope and then taking
Speaker 1: it away. So now Tyler's talking to Cragan. They're having
Speaker 1: like a sweet little outdoor moment, and he's like what
Speaker 1: happens to me now? And he's like, you'll be in
Speaker 1: a temporary home until the judge decides, and he's like,
Speaker 1: I just want to go home to my parents, Like
Speaker 1: to the Blake's like, I don't really want any of
Speaker 1: this to be happening, and he's like, I don't care
Speaker 1: that the adoption was illegal. My parents loved me and
Speaker 1: they've always been good to me, and Craigan's like, I
Speaker 1: didn't want to take you away from your family, but
Speaker 1: I was just doing my job. I was just following
Speaker 1: the law. But my job is also to protect you.
Speaker 1: Do you understand? And Tyler's like okay, but like I'm
Speaker 1: still I'm still annoyed. And then Craigan tells him that
Speaker 1: his maternal grandparents want to meet him, so right before
Speaker 1: they go in, Tyler's like, do I have to hug them?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, good instinct, Tyler, old people do smell
Speaker 1: very weird. And so then they open the door and
Speaker 1: the grandparents are standing right there and they're like it's
Speaker 1: like a very sweet moment, Like their eyes are welled
Speaker 1: up with tears, and the grandmother calls him Steven and
Speaker 1: he's like, my name is Tyler, and they're like okay,
Speaker 1: hello Tyler, and it's just really emotional and the parent
Speaker 1: grandparents are crying and Tyler's like, please don't cry, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: really good acting. Yeah. The poor kid is like has
Speaker 1: so many adults. He's carrying the emotions of so many
Speaker 1: adults right now, like these grandparents and all these people,
Speaker 1: and it's just like a lot for a twelve year old.
Speaker 1: So Cabot knocks on Cragan's door. They basically make up.
Speaker 1: They start to plain ice and work together, and Tyler
Speaker 1: is going to need a lag guardian, Cabot says, and
Speaker 1: she's like, what if I volunteer? And Craigan's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but the law favors the biological parents, which is true,
Speaker 1: and then Cabot says, the law also says that the
Speaker 1: kid is old enough and mature enough to decide who
Speaker 1: he wants to live with, and so if I'm his attorney,
Speaker 1: I'll fight for what he wants, which is to live
Speaker 1: with the Blakes. So now dun Dune, we're in court
Speaker 1: and Huang is testifying that Tyler is an articulate, intelligent
Speaker 1: twelve year old, well adjusted, good at school, lots of friends.
Speaker 1: He is definitely the product of a happy home. And
Speaker 1: he says, They're like, oh, would you recommend him going
Speaker 1: to live with his biological dad right now? And he's like,
Speaker 1: actually no, that would be basically like him waking up
Speaker 1: and hearing that his parents had died in a car crash,
Speaker 1: Like it would be a sudden traumatic loss, and that
Speaker 1: could lead at this age, with this kind of trauma,
Speaker 1: it could lead to behavior problems, depression, a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, bad things down the line, and Huang is like,
Speaker 1: I do not recommend at all that he go live
Speaker 1: with his biodad. And next on the stand, Missus Blake,
Speaker 1: the adoptive mother, is on the stand showing a photo
Speaker 1: album of Tyler's milestones, like, you know, talking about his
Speaker 1: first birthday. We had one hundred people. It's like very sweet,
Speaker 1: and he's she says, he's the center of our lives.
Speaker 1: He gets love. We don't have a lot of money,
Speaker 1: but he does not want for anything, and she's terrified
Speaker 1: of losing him and says, please don't punish us for
Speaker 1: someone else's crime. So now Rob's lawyer cross examines and
Speaker 1: is like, but can you imagine how Rob feels losing
Speaker 1: all those years? And it's like no, because he has
Speaker 1: two other sons and he was literally walking around in
Speaker 1: his twenties jizzing and every woman on campus and it
Speaker 1: doesn't really seem like he cares too. He knocked up.
Speaker 1: And then he says, well, if your child was lost
Speaker 1: but taken in by a family and raised well and
Speaker 1: then you found him when you want him back, is
Speaker 1: that what you meant by the good point, Lisa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but now that you say it out loud,
Speaker 2: he wasn't trying to find him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't know he existed. Yes, but so it's
Speaker 1: a little bits a different situation. Yeah, but so she
Speaker 1: has to say yes to that question, even though it's
Speaker 1: killing her the mom she's like, yes, I would want
Speaker 1: him back, and so it's very sad. And then Rob
Speaker 1: is on the stand being like, listen, I'm rich. I
Speaker 1: can provide for him. He'll have brothers his own age.
Speaker 1: I don't know why that matters. Tyler is my flesh
Speaker 1: and blood, which I just find that like very arrogant,
Speaker 1: like just that you feel like because he's your like
Speaker 1: he's your flesh and blood, but like it was like
Speaker 1: from a relationship you didn't even care about, Like you didn't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like you cared when she was murdered
Speaker 1: that much either, like you just saw the pick in
Speaker 1: the paper, like I don't know. And he's like he
Speaker 1: admits that these adoptive parents did just as good of
Speaker 1: a job as he could have done, and he's like,
Speaker 1: it's imagine how hard it is for me to put
Speaker 1: them through this, Like he's kind of making it all
Speaker 1: about him. I just do not like this man, and
Speaker 1: it's and then I wrote in my notes the same
Speaker 1: thing as what you were saying, Lisa, like have visitation,
Speaker 1: let him stay in the life he's used to and
Speaker 1: you just finished a bitter custody battle with your ex.
Speaker 1: That's what Cabot asks him, and then she goes, what
Speaker 1: if your wife had won sole custody like she was
Speaker 1: suing you for and you weren't able to see your
Speaker 1: kids whenever you wanted, And he goes, yeah, it would
Speaker 1: crush me. And then he apologizes to the Blakes on
Speaker 1: the stand. Why doesn't the kid get to decide?
Speaker 2: It's like that's annoying to me too, Like, yeah, if
Speaker 2: you're claiming to care about the kid and he doesn't
Speaker 2: want to go with you, why don't you just leave
Speaker 2: it at that? It's like about this guy, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I think the grandparents would be chill.
Speaker 1: I think the grandparents would just be happy to.
Speaker 2: Be in the in his life and not like, yes,
Speaker 2: you must move into this room, Like I think they
Speaker 2: would be chill.
Speaker 1: So it's just this guy who's doing this all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate I just hate this situation. It's terrible. So
Speaker 1: in Craigan's office. Cabot says, this case is ripping her
Speaker 1: guts out because it's all good people. Again, cab It,
Speaker 1: I don't really think that Rob is a great person.
Speaker 1: And Elliott and Olivia walk in and explain that all
Speaker 1: of Sanford's adoptions have been legit. There are no stolen
Speaker 1: babies that they can find, so this does seem like
Speaker 1: even though this man is a crook, he's not like
Speaker 1: a kidnapper. And then Olivia's got a nice little piece
Speaker 1: of scoop. She's like, you know what, Linda, Rob's ex wife,
Speaker 1: gave birth to her son a month after Jennifer gave birth,
Speaker 1: and her hospital roommate was a client of Sanford's, and
Speaker 1: she said that she recommended Linda to Sandford. How do
Speaker 1: they know this? I don't know how Olivia would have
Speaker 1: possibly tracked down the hospital roommate of Linda and that
Speaker 1: she remembered what she said to her twelve years ago.
Speaker 1: But that's what's happened, I guess. And they compared the
Speaker 1: signature on the adoption papers to Linda's signature on the
Speaker 1: DNA release forms, and Craigan's like, let's get Linda in here.
Speaker 1: So something's going on. The next scene is very classically
Speaker 1: lit dark interrogation scene. Linda looks like she's truly sitting
Speaker 1: under like one of those old timey solitary swinging light bulbs,
Speaker 1: and she's like, why do I care if my ex
Speaker 1: gets to keep his love child. She's very cocky and
Speaker 1: she's very bitchy, and Craigan accuses her of intercepting the
Speaker 1: letter that Jennifer sent informing Rob that he is the
Speaker 1: father of her baby, and they say, why did you
Speaker 1: ask about an adoption attorney? And she goes, I knew
Speaker 1: Rob was cheating, and I didn't know he'd propose, so
Speaker 1: I just like wanted to have my options of maybe,
Speaker 1: you know, getting rid of this baby. Even though Rob says,
Speaker 1: I broke up with Jennifer because you know, Linda was pregnant.
Speaker 1: So the timeline of this doesn't really work out because
Speaker 1: she had her baby a month after Jennifer, and if
Speaker 1: Jennifer was pregnant in that two weeks, that means Linda
Speaker 1: couldn't have been pregnant already. They've only been together for
Speaker 1: two weeks, so Linda, this is just impossible. This timeline
Speaker 1: Linda was in two weeks. No, they were together for
Speaker 1: two weeks, right, and then they broke up because Linda goes,
Speaker 1: I'm pregnant. That's impossible. Her baby's a month younger than
Speaker 1: Linda than Jennifer's. Could she have given birth early? Uh oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess it's possible. You're right. I guess it's possible.
Speaker 1: Jennifer gave birth like a month or two early or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's possible. Okay. I thought I was about to write
Speaker 1: into IMGB with a strip continuity problem. But anyway, so
Speaker 1: it is all confusing this end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I love the twists in turns of
Speaker 2: it all, but it is confusing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Jennifer's signature is on these adoption papers. They
Speaker 1: show it to her and they're like, this is your handwriting.
Speaker 1: We compared it to you know this other signature, Like
Speaker 1: this is yours. So they go, you got the letter,
Speaker 1: you went to see Jennifer. Something happened and Jennifer was dead,
Speaker 1: so you impersonated her and you took her baby to
Speaker 1: Mark Sandford. Craigan goes, just tell me you didn't mean
Speaker 1: to kill her, and I can help you, and she goes,
Speaker 1: I want a lawyer. So guilty as fuck that's exactly
Speaker 1: what happened. Crazy twist, you know. But that's another reason
Speaker 1: why it's so insane that this guy, Oh, he worked
Speaker 1: this case to the bone. He worked it. Like it's
Speaker 1: like that you didn't talk to the roommate who would
Speaker 1: have told you about Rob and you would have found
Speaker 1: out that there was another woman and there was like
Speaker 1: other like either one of them could have been you know, suspects.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like Craig and your friends sucked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's also very much me being like I could
Speaker 1: be a cop. I've watched a lot of SVU, so
Speaker 1: who knows how it was really going back in that
Speaker 1: uh in real life, even though this isn't real. So
Speaker 1: back in court, the judge is like, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: a very different kind of case for me. Most of
Speaker 1: the time, nobody wants the kid, and now everybody wants
Speaker 1: this kid. I like, she's it's rare to see so
Speaker 1: many people pulling to get one kid, and so she
Speaker 1: talks to everybody.
Speaker 2: She's like, I was explaining this episode to someone I
Speaker 2: wish I remembered, but they were like, what's it about
Speaker 2: this kid?
Speaker 1: What does this kid have to offer? What's so great
Speaker 1: about this fucking kid. Yeah, they said he's popular and good,
Speaker 1: makes good grades. Maybe he's like a sweet little boy knows.
Speaker 1: So the judge is like, Rob, you're good, Blake's you're good.
Speaker 1: But the law recognizes the biological rights of the parent,
Speaker 1: so she awards custody to Rob Cook. So Cabot was
Speaker 1: just full of shit when she said that the court
Speaker 1: lets Tyler decide. That's just like not true, Like, well,
Speaker 1: I think the judge gets to overset anything. I guess.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's fucked up. The judge is fucked
Speaker 1: like yeah, like I think that there also should have
Speaker 1: been a part where Tyler took the stand to tell
Speaker 1: the judge what he wanted. But also I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like I am a CASA, so it's my responsibility to
Speaker 1: write a letter. I write a report to a judge
Speaker 1: like every six months, saying this is what she wants,
Speaker 1: and if it was something like this, it's like usually
Speaker 1: I feel like what I've seen in family court is
Speaker 1: like the judge takes into account what the child wants,
Speaker 1: especially if they're of an age where they can decide. Obviously,
Speaker 1: an eight year old might be like I want to
Speaker 1: go live with my grandma, because she doesn't lets me
Speaker 1: do whatever, you know, But like a twelve year old
Speaker 1: can say, this is where I want to be, so
Speaker 1: it's it is. It's kind of surprising to me. This
Speaker 1: verdict also not covered at any point. Now he has
Speaker 1: to live with the two sons of his mother's killer,
Speaker 1: whoa like, are you kidding me? He has to just
Speaker 1: be there with his two brothers and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: so remember when your mom killed my mom and then
Speaker 1: it ruined my whole fucking life because I got adopted
Speaker 1: and then I had to come back to you guys,
Speaker 1: Like this would not pass. Like to me, this would
Speaker 1: not pass like home screening or psychological screening. If that
Speaker 1: woman was on trial for the murder or like ended
Speaker 1: up getting arrested, like getting convicted, this would be considered
Speaker 1: I think, like psychologically unwell circumstances.
Speaker 2: No, I hope mister Cook comes to his senses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the Blakes are crushed when the judge reads
Speaker 1: the verdict and the uh tyler runs to them and
Speaker 1: hugs them. The grandparents look sad, everyone is bummed. It's
Speaker 1: not nice, it's not great. And then Cab walking out
Speaker 1: with Craigan and she's like, I really prefer Pop prosecuting.
Speaker 1: At least then I know who the bad guy is.
Speaker 1: And Rob and the Blakes are standing on the courthouse
Speaker 1: steps and they're at least talking, so it sounds like
Speaker 1: everyone's going to have a relationship with Tyler, whether or
Speaker 1: not he's living under anyone's roof. They're all it's not
Speaker 1: like Rob is saying, Okay, say go bye to your parents.
Speaker 1: You're never going to see them again. And Craigan and
Speaker 1: Tyler like share this sort of sad look and it
Speaker 1: kind of looks like Tyler's like, what's up, dude, I
Speaker 1: thought you were gonna help me, and like that's like
Speaker 1: the look kind of and then they just that's it
Speaker 1: and it's very sad. And then that is dick Wolf.
Speaker 2: Maybe there'll be an episode where Tyler kills Craigan. Yes,
Speaker 2: And are they going to let him go by Tyler?
Speaker 2: Are they going to start forcing Steven upon him? I
Speaker 2: think Tyler. I think Tyler for sure, because it's not
Speaker 2: like Rob named him that, you know, like his dead
Speaker 2: mom named him that. I think the grandparents would be
Speaker 2: the only ones holding on to Steven.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that.
Speaker 2: A good episode for season three, like to have that
Speaker 2: much any twists and turns and fun stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great episode. Yeah, totally right. And I
Speaker 1: know nothing about the crime that this is based on,
Speaker 1: and I like to do that on purpose. I leave
Speaker 1: my Lisa crimes. I like to keep myself virginal for
Speaker 1: those it's fucking sick dude, We'll be right back. Oh right.
Speaker 2: This is mostly based on a crime a murder, bad
Speaker 2: bad man named John Robinson, and of course he was
Speaker 2: seen as the ideal family man. I mean, all these
Speaker 2: articles are just like. He coached his four children's various
Speaker 2: sports teams in the Kansas City area Sunday school teacher
Speaker 2: volunteered as a scout master. He you know, he loved
Speaker 2: to mow his grass and grill burgers. People are like,
Speaker 2: he smiled, he laughed, he told stories, good handshake, congenial
Speaker 2: type of guy.
Speaker 1: This is like literally also the description of BTK.
Speaker 2: Yeah, immaculate yard, elaborate decorations for holidays, which obviously made
Speaker 2: him the most perfect con man manipulator of all time.
Speaker 2: Do not trust anyone with a well manicured lawn that
Speaker 2: is a murderer waiting to happen. Any dude who's like
Speaker 2: I love my lawn. That's a killer. Check his shed.
Speaker 2: So he actually went to prison in nineteen eighty seven
Speaker 2: for fraud and then he got out in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: And then in June.
Speaker 2: Two thousand is when authorities uncovered bodies of multiple women
Speaker 2: in Beryl's Dexter style on his farm and in a
Speaker 2: storage locker.
Speaker 1: Baryl Girls. That season helped me up. Girls. That season
Speaker 1: was really fucked up.
Speaker 2: It was scary because people are like, oh, after the
Speaker 2: Trinity Killer, Dexter was bad, and it's like, no, it's not.
Speaker 2: I mean it had season five is still good.
Speaker 1: Well Julia Styles, because Julia Styles is like a living victim,
Speaker 1: like The Trinity Killer didn't really have living victims, and
Speaker 1: it was Johnny Lee Miller. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I thought it was good in the barrel of it all,
Speaker 2: and just like having a group of men get together
Speaker 2: to murder together, It's just like it was scary and
Speaker 2: believable and like, oh.
Speaker 1: So yeah.
Speaker 2: So then there was barrels and one of the women
Speaker 2: this is how it all ties together, was found that
Speaker 2: she had a baby girl at the time of her murder,
Speaker 2: and the baby was alive and now a teenager living
Speaker 2: with john Robinson's brother no an investigator who worked the case,
Speaker 2: Rick Ross, said he was one of the most dangerous
Speaker 2: criminals that he had ever encountered, and he said that
Speaker 2: to ABC News.
Speaker 1: So this is a done done.
Speaker 2: To like the Max, and now we'll travel back in
Speaker 2: time and learn about this case. So this fucker was
Speaker 2: married in nineteen sixty four and he married a woman
Speaker 2: named Nancy Joe Lynch and he started working at Chicago
Speaker 2: Hospital and Nancy Joe then eventually managed the trailer park
Speaker 2: where they ended up living, which I think was helpful
Speaker 2: to him to get away with stuff, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty four, Robinson put up a help
Speaker 2: wanted ad in the paper for a sales rep job
Speaker 2: and hired nineteen year old Paula Godfrey and let her
Speaker 2: know that she would be traveling to Texas for some training,
Speaker 2: and she disappeared. And the training was for screen printing.
Speaker 2: So I guess in the eighties screen printing you had
Speaker 2: to leave the state like you couldn't learn how to
Speaker 2: screen print. So Godfrey's father confronted Robinson, who said he
Speaker 2: didn't know what he was talking about. But then right
Speaker 2: after that interaction, letters signed by his daughter started arriving
Speaker 2: saying she was safe and fine. So then in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty four, around Christmas time, he then started an organization
Speaker 2: called Kansas City Outreach Program to help down trodden women.
Speaker 2: Is that a word we still use today? Down trodden?
Speaker 2: I don't know sad sad women with no luck. So
Speaker 2: he went to Silver Hospitals and social workers and told
Speaker 2: them about his program that he's starting. And Karen Gaddis
Speaker 2: is a former social worker, and she said that he
Speaker 2: explained the program worked with young pregnant women or women
Speaker 2: with newborns to help them get them back on their
Speaker 2: feet in a place to live. And after Christmas he
Speaker 2: called and said, guess what, I got a girl. I
Speaker 2: got a girl from the women's shelter in Kansas City
Speaker 2: and he met with her and she agreed to go
Speaker 2: into his program. So that woman, her name is Lisa Stassy,
Speaker 2: and she was nineteen years old at the time. And
Speaker 2: there's another social worker named Sharon Turner Jackson.
Speaker 1: So her and.
Speaker 2: Gaddis both were like, yeah, we were definitely suspicious of
Speaker 2: his desire to find needy white women with children right
Speaker 2: before Christmas, like the night before Christmas. So they definitely
Speaker 2: were like, Okay, this is weird, but I guess not
Speaker 2: weird enough. And it seemed like Lisa and John connected.
Speaker 2: So he put up Lisa and her four month old daughter,
Speaker 2: Tiffany up at the Roadway Inn hotel, and he promised
Speaker 2: her to help her get to Texas to train for
Speaker 2: the silk screening job, like everyone wanted a silk screen
Speaker 2: Like I don't understand. So he also offered her eight
Speaker 2: hundred dollars a month for living expenses and promised to
Speaker 2: find her a babysitter. And so he really promised her
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that obviously got her excited to
Speaker 2: like come stay. So then cut to one day, Sassy's
Speaker 2: family got a call from Lisa and she was hysterically
Speaker 2: crying and she was telling them that she had to
Speaker 2: sign four pieces of paper and they're like, don't sign anything,
Speaker 2: don't do it, and she said here, they come now,
Speaker 2: and she hung up and that was the last time
Speaker 2: that her family ever heard from her. But then they
Speaker 2: received a letter that was supposedly from Lisa, but they
Speaker 2: knew it was fucking weird because she sucked it typing
Speaker 2: and she wouldn't have typed a letter. They're like, she
Speaker 2: wouldn't This isn't her And I think computers were like pretty.
Speaker 1: Rare in the eighties, so I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that was eighty four and now it's eighty
Speaker 2: seven and it's time for like his fraud charges in
Speaker 2: prison time and we'll get into more details.
Speaker 1: About the fraud.
Speaker 2: So but right before his arrest, another woman in her
Speaker 2: mid twenties disappeared named Catherine Clampett. So that's what happened
Speaker 2: right before he got into jail. Now he's in prison,
Speaker 2: right and he starts a relationship with the prison librarian
Speaker 2: named Beverly Bonner, who is married to the prison doctor.
Speaker 2: So he's just like this master manipulator. So he starts
Speaker 2: dating the librarian. And once he left prison, Bonner left
Speaker 2: the prison divorced her husband to be with Robinson. But
Speaker 2: also it's like where is Nancy Joe? They are still married,
Speaker 2: So he's still married to Nancy Joe. He is having
Speaker 2: this like affair with this prison librarian he met in
Speaker 2: prison while being a criminal, and also had this other
Speaker 2: relationship right before with this woman named Catherine, and also
Speaker 2: is helping single women. Okay, whatever, So Bonner went missing. Obviously,
Speaker 2: like is anyone surprised Bonner is missing, but he continued
Speaker 2: to collect her monthly alimony checks and then continue to.
Speaker 1: Sought out other women.
Speaker 2: The authority is like, once all the bodies are found,
Speaker 2: think that Bonner was died in nineteen ninety four, but
Speaker 2: they can't really be sure.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Then the Internet happened and he got five computers, and
Speaker 2: he had a ton of aliases, and he started searching
Speaker 2: for sex in the BDSM community. So he was this
Speaker 2: balding grandfather but also was advertising himself as a sadist
Speaker 2: looking for love slaves. And his wife, Nancy was just
Speaker 2: like in the next room, typing away. Like while he
Speaker 2: was typing away searching for victims, she was just living
Speaker 2: her life, like not really suspicious at all, like kind
Speaker 2: of you know whatever, didn't care where this money was
Speaker 2: coming from. From all these checks, he's stealing whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like how'd you get these five computers? We live in
Speaker 2: a trailer part. So in nineteen ninety seven he met
Speaker 2: Isabella Luika and she was a young Polish immigrant and
Speaker 2: art student.
Speaker 1: Do I hear another screen printing coming on? Okay? But
Speaker 1: a young Polish immigrant art student.
Speaker 2: She was living in Indiana and he just was trying
Speaker 2: to convince her to come to Kansas and to be
Speaker 2: his submissive, and she disappears as well, and he like,
Speaker 2: basically he had this whole thing where he's like, I'm rich,
Speaker 2: I travel a lot, I'll take care of everything. Just
Speaker 2: come be my slave and I'll pay for everything. And okay,
Speaker 2: so this is where it's like, I just don't I
Speaker 2: understand when you're desperate and you need help. But like
Speaker 2: he said, listen, you're gonna be so busy. I need
Speaker 2: you to sign some blank pieces of paper. And it's like,
Speaker 2: wouldn't you not do that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like yeah, me question it.
Speaker 2: And you can't like think how you're gonna act in
Speaker 2: these fucked up situations, and maybe it's like, oh this
Speaker 2: is too good to be true, like yeah, I get
Speaker 2: like someone to help pay for me, and I get
Speaker 2: to work and like get fucked. I don't know, like
Speaker 2: hell yeah. But he would later obviously send these letters
Speaker 2: to women's families, posing as them so the relatives didn't
Speaker 2: think they had been killed.
Speaker 1: This reminds me of at my school, I think maybe
Speaker 1: my elementary, my middle school. You were allowed to write
Speaker 1: the note yourself as long as your parents signed it
Speaker 1: like to get out of a homework or get out
Speaker 1: of whatever, and I would go, Dad, can I have
Speaker 1: your autograph? I would like pretend like I was collecting
Speaker 1: autographs of everyone in the family and then like write
Speaker 1: a note above it. I was a con person. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I think it only worked like one time.
Speaker 2: No, that's sweet though, it's like definitely a little bit different.
Speaker 2: And also like I understand that the times were different,
Speaker 2: so like we didn't have constant communication with our families,
Speaker 2: but or these are different types of people. But like
Speaker 2: also just sending a letter would be strange, Like if
Speaker 2: I'm used to talking to my child and suddenly I
Speaker 2: get just these letters without anything. But they had time
Speaker 2: to call, Like they had time to write but not call,
Speaker 2: Like that would just be suspicious. Yeah, it would just
Speaker 2: not It's not normal. But like I said, they didn't.
Speaker 2: It's not like everyone had computers and phones at the time.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So now it's nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: We're in Newport, Michigan, and Robinson scams someone named Suzette
Speaker 2: Troughton who is twenty eight.
Speaker 1: So he is he moving around the country with all
Speaker 1: this well she no, he's convincing people to come to Kansas.
Speaker 1: Oh got it?
Speaker 2: Okay, So he's from Illinois, he works in Chicago stuff.
Speaker 2: But then we're actually going to get to it. So
Speaker 2: he lived in Kansas, but he went back and forth
Speaker 2: and committed crimes in Kansas and Missouri and played a
Speaker 2: lot of jurisdiction games to continue to like.
Speaker 1: Keep getting out of crimes.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, And so he like played the system to keep
Speaker 2: getting away with crimes. But then at the end it
Speaker 2: fucked him because he had to do two trials, one
Speaker 2: in Kansas and won in Missouri for all of his crimes.
Speaker 2: So he thought he was like being so slick, but
Speaker 2: then he ended up getting fucked at the end.
Speaker 1: Okay because of it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he lived in olith Kansas in this trailer
Speaker 2: park that his wife managed, and then was convincing people
Speaker 2: off the internet to come to Kansas because he's rich
Speaker 2: and he just needed help and he would pay for everything.
Speaker 1: Ted, gotcha? Okay? Cool.
Speaker 2: So for Susette, the scam was not b DSM six.
Speaker 2: It was he persuaded her to work as the caretaker
Speaker 2: for his fake elderly father. In reality, his dad had
Speaker 2: been dead for a long long time. But what's so
Speaker 2: wild about this? She went out there and visited him
Speaker 2: to twice. The job seemed legit, so I don't know
Speaker 2: what fucking old man he found. He also showed her
Speaker 2: his mansion and guest house. Don't know what these things were,
Speaker 2: how he did it whatever, Yeah, but he made it
Speaker 2: seem very legit, and she was gonna be making sixty
Speaker 2: two thousand dollars a year and she was super excited
Speaker 2: about it and to use the money to train to
Speaker 2: become a licensed nurse and then eventually and registered nurse.
Speaker 2: He picked her up from the airport in a limo
Speaker 2: like it seemed legit, and then he you know, she
Speaker 2: was told that she'd be traveling for a month to
Speaker 2: start the job. And after she disappeared, her mother started
Speaker 2: getting emails from her. But she knew something was off
Speaker 2: because everything was spelled right, and she goes, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: this is not my daughter because everything was spelled right,
Speaker 2: so she knew something was off. But then the spelling
Speaker 2: games continued. But the things that she did spell wrong
Speaker 2: that was weird was her dog's names, and she would
Speaker 2: never spell her own dog's names wrong. She loved those
Speaker 2: fucking dogs. And so this disappearance is whenever kind of
Speaker 2: came crumbling down. So within days there was a task force.
Speaker 2: Because the mom was like, these are not emails for
Speaker 2: my daughter. She would like where are these dogs? She
Speaker 2: would not leave without the like you need to figure
Speaker 2: shit out. So the authorities released the names and in
Speaker 2: some cases photos of the women and the baby who
Speaker 2: disappeared that might have been linked to Robinson. So just
Speaker 2: as a little recap, there's Paula Godfrey nineteen, reported missing
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four. We have Lisa Stassey nineteen and
Speaker 2: her five month old daughter Tiffany in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2: We have Catherine Klampett twenty seven, reported missing in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty seven, and then Isabella kay Luika twenty two, missing
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine, and all of the women were
Speaker 2: living or staying in Overland Park, Kansas at the time
Speaker 2: they vanished. So then they found the dogs. They found
Speaker 2: Pica and Harry Susette's dogs abandoned at the trailer park
Speaker 2: where Robinson lived. So on March first, two thousand, they
Speaker 2: realized that like these abandoned dogs were found at the
Speaker 2: the trailer park, and that's the same day that Susette disappeared.
Speaker 2: So they found one of the dogs adopted already with
Speaker 2: a new family, and when they called him Pika, his
Speaker 2: ears perked up and his tail started wagging, so he
Speaker 2: responded to his given name, so they knew something was
Speaker 2: they were close to something. I know it's a different spelling,
Speaker 2: but it is the name of the disorder that the
Speaker 2: kid gets when he licks the lead off the cars.
Speaker 1: In the other episode of That's.
Speaker 2: So Funny, I was thinking Pika chew, I was saying, okay.
Speaker 2: So then they made Suzette's mom, Carolyn Trout, and a
Speaker 2: tape recorder. They made her like they didn't make it
Speaker 2: for her, so they gave her this tape recorder to
Speaker 2: call Robinson and to tell her like hey, you know,
Speaker 2: to tell him like listen, where's my daughter. And he's like,
Speaker 2: don't worry, chill out. She left with someone else, Like
Speaker 2: it has you know, she she ditched me, I have
Speaker 2: no idea where she is. And Carolyn kept pushing him
Speaker 2: and was like, I think I need to report her
Speaker 2: to the authority and he's like, don't report her missing.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll hear from her soon.
Speaker 2: And like clockwork, letters started arriving to all the family
Speaker 2: right after the call, and again, they knew it wasn't
Speaker 2: her because the dogs names were not spelled correctly, and
Speaker 2: that's not what she would do.
Speaker 1: She was obsessed with those dogs.
Speaker 2: So they continued to follow him as he brought women
Speaker 2: in from all over the US to put up in hotels,
Speaker 2: and the investigators would rent the adjoining rooms and being
Speaker 2: and like pay attention to what's up, So you are
Speaker 2: right in terms of like he was bringing other women
Speaker 2: to Kansas. They also then went through his trash and
Speaker 2: found shredded documents and there was one that helped them
Speaker 2: locate a storage locker. It's like, how many other people
Speaker 2: were they going to watch him bring until something terrible happened?
Speaker 2: Like it is fucked up to just sit in a
Speaker 2: hotel room like terrorizing these women, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So they had to make a move.
Speaker 2: So after he was trying to lure down women from
Speaker 2: some farm, they decided they'd had enough and moved in
Speaker 2: and they arrested him at the Santa Barbara States Mobile
Speaker 2: Home Park in olaf But I love that it's called
Speaker 2: Santa Barbara Estates. It's like making it sound like coastal
Speaker 2: and this like this trajectory of this crime in this
Speaker 2: recap is like as confusing as the episode.
Speaker 1: Honestly, there's like so much happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So June two thousand, he is held and charged with
Speaker 2: aggravated sexual battery of two out of town women and
Speaker 2: stealing five hundred dollars worth of sex toys from one
Speaker 2: of the women. So two women that he met in
Speaker 2: local hotels for some sado masochistic sex, but he ended
Speaker 2: up assaulting and robbing them, and so he was arrested
Speaker 2: on Friday, and they spent the weekend making all the discoveries.
Speaker 1: So he was bringing in these women.
Speaker 2: The cops had this room they were watching, and still
Speaker 2: these women got assaulted. That's what's so fucked up that
Speaker 2: the cops just kind of like used live women as
Speaker 2: bait without them knowing that they were bait. Like it's
Speaker 2: fucked up. Yeah, but so you would just use rollins. Yes,
Speaker 2: So because of the investigations starting whatever, So Friday, he's
Speaker 2: arrested for harassing these two women, assaulting them, and robbing
Speaker 2: them of all of their sex choice. And during the
Speaker 2: weekend they started like a full hardcore investigation and they
Speaker 2: needed to find evidence. So his farm was fifty seven
Speaker 2: miles south of Kansas City, and some hardworking cadaver dogs
Speaker 2: smelled some stuff around the trash and police found barrels
Speaker 2: and blood started pouring out of the barrel and once
Speaker 2: they looked in, that's where they found Suzette Trappin the
Speaker 2: second barrel was Isabella Luiica. Now in the storage locker
Speaker 2: that was in Raymore, Missouri, was fifty four miles northeast
Speaker 2: of where he lived, and there were three more barrels there.
Speaker 2: And the manager of the storage unit was interviewed by
Speaker 2: the New York Times, and you know, they were like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he would pay his rent on time, often in person,
Speaker 2: and then in quotes he would run through here, I
Speaker 2: guess to check on his bones. And I just thought
Speaker 2: that was, oh my god, he would run through here,
Speaker 2: I guess to check on his bones, maybe just like
Speaker 2: the word bones.
Speaker 1: But it just made me kind of like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's also a very funny quote from a
Speaker 1: person not who does not comprehend that this is like
Speaker 1: a serial killer. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then some of the women they found in there,
Speaker 2: they didn't even know we're missing. So that's like Bonner,
Speaker 2: who is the prison library, and they found they found
Speaker 2: a mother daughter duo named Sheila and Debbie Faith.
Speaker 1: The duo had not.
Speaker 2: Been seen or heard from since nineteen ninety four, and
Speaker 2: Debbie had cerebral palsy and used a wheelchair. So he
Speaker 2: really like went after people that like really couldn't get away.
Speaker 2: He convinced them to come out because they were living
Speaker 2: off of only one thousand dollars a month from the
Speaker 2: government and food stamps, and they were in a really
Speaker 2: desperate situation. So we moved them to Kansas and then
Speaker 2: got her a po box and then continue to collect
Speaker 2: her government checks for years and pulled in over eighty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars in their checks over all of the years.
Speaker 1: So he's like a con man.
Speaker 2: It's basically like I think we talked about this with
Speaker 2: other killers or serial killers, like they don't want to kill,
Speaker 2: or maybe they do. It's like it's just a necessary
Speaker 2: thing they have to do to get what they want,
Speaker 2: you know. It's like, well, yeah, she was making too
Speaker 2: much noise, so I had to kill her. She was annoying.
Speaker 2: So that's what this guy. It's like, it's not even
Speaker 2: about the murder. Maybe it is, but it is about
Speaker 2: like I want that money, so you have to die.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So was he like sexually assaulting them, Like, how
Speaker 1: is he murdering them? Like, oh, I'll tell you about that.
Speaker 2: Oh well, some of them he was meeting up to
Speaker 2: have sex with, right, Like and Bonner he had that
Speaker 2: relationship with. Yeah, And I don't know what he did
Speaker 2: to the other women's It doesn't explicitly say that there
Speaker 2: was like any sort of rape and stuff. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: not like what he's known for, right, Right, So the
Speaker 2: evidence started to pile at this point. There were seats
Speaker 2: from the roadway in from like nineteen eighty five, where
Speaker 2: Lisa Stassey's name was on the receipt of staying there.
Speaker 2: They found these blank letters with the signature of his victims.
Speaker 2: So he was charged with five murders in June two
Speaker 2: thousand and he was held on a five million dollar bond,
Speaker 2: and then his defense attorney would be a great SVU
Speaker 2: character in terms of like evil. A direct quote from
Speaker 2: The New York Times from Robinson's lawyer Byron Cirilla was,
Speaker 2: I resent the fact that people are now claiming that
Speaker 2: mister Robinson, either directly or indirectly, as a serial killer.
Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, you resent that he killed people?
Speaker 2: Like it's just such a crazy out of touch quote
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: Even if you are you killed more than two people,
Speaker 1: you're a serial killer. I mean, like that's just the
Speaker 1: fact multiple barrels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if that Deck season Dexter was like
Speaker 2: kind of inspired by this. To be honest, I would
Speaker 2: want to hit up on some of the writers and
Speaker 2: find out or I guess.
Speaker 1: I guess a lot of people can hold people in barrels.
Speaker 1: But this is just so interesting that this man just
Speaker 1: goes by John Robinson. He doesn't have a middle name,
Speaker 1: which most of these people do, most serial killers do,
Speaker 1: and he was never given a name or anything. But
Speaker 1: I think that's like you usually get a name when
Speaker 1: they can't find you for a long time.
Speaker 2: And maybe he was, but he was killing for a
Speaker 2: long time, but they weren't even looking for him.
Speaker 1: But they weren't even connect it. It wasn't like they
Speaker 1: were like, oh, we're looking for the Green River killer
Speaker 1: because we just keep finding all these bodies in the
Speaker 1: Green River. It was like they found him and then
Speaker 1: they found all his bodies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is scary because that means how many fucking
Speaker 2: how many like Richard Ramirez style without any like actual
Speaker 2: patterns and different things are there, you know.
Speaker 1: But Richard was a creep out and about.
Speaker 2: Like people knew he was shady like this, Like this
Speaker 2: guy was like, oh yeah, he's so funny, grilled a
Speaker 2: lot his long looked great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's scary, like the guys that have like the
Speaker 1: mask on of like me Joe, Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And for just I mean, obviously he like compiled a
Speaker 2: lot of money, but like to kill a mother daughter
Speaker 2: for one thousand dollars a month just like pretty fucked up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: pretty fucked up. So he's a ruthless motherfucker who used
Speaker 2: whatever promised would work as a lure. Like that's the thing.
Speaker 2: He didn't have an MO. It was like come work
Speaker 2: for me, or yeah, come fuck me, or you know. Also,
Speaker 2: they connected to him to four people who had gone missing.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's just like a lot of different connections
Speaker 2: and I just don't know what's going on. But July
Speaker 2: two thousand, Morrison, who prosecuted the case in Kansas, added
Speaker 2: an aggravated interference with parental custody charge involving and carrying
Speaker 2: away of the baby of Tiffany's Stassy. So Tiffany, Lisa's
Speaker 2: daughter from the eighties, was adopted by a Midwestern family
Speaker 2: and at the time of this article living with them,
Speaker 2: and that couple though, was Robinson's brother, so is Donald
Speaker 2: Robinson and his wife. So the police received a tip
Speaker 2: that the adoption had to do with the brother and stuff.
Speaker 2: So that's why they finally went and got DNA samples
Speaker 2: from the family and it was confirmed that the fifteen
Speaker 2: year old was Tiffany. Don't know who tipped off the
Speaker 2: police or in any way, but somebody did and it
Speaker 2: is Tiffany. So her adopted uncle and family member killed
Speaker 2: her fucking mom and gave her to the brother. So
Speaker 2: like they were at fucking family parties and hanging out,
Speaker 2: like she's this little kid hanging out with her uncle John.
Speaker 2: She didn't see him a lot because you know, they
Speaker 2: were in Illinois.
Speaker 1: But that is so fucked.
Speaker 2: She said that she didn't know the truth about John,
Speaker 2: but said she always felt weird around him, with an
Speaker 2: off putting feeling in the gut of her stomach. But John,
Speaker 2: the thing is, he brought fake documents to the couple
Speaker 2: and helped facilitate it and had a certificate of adoption,
Speaker 2: but it was not a legal adoption.
Speaker 1: But he had all of this ready, so is he.
Speaker 1: It's really wild.
Speaker 2: And they do believe that the brother and his wife
Speaker 2: were victims of John Robinson too and were not at
Speaker 2: all in on the crime. And Tiffany says that she
Speaker 2: actually remembers her mom crying when she found out, going
Speaker 2: what did John do? How could he do this to us?
Speaker 2: So it is pretty clear that they were trying to
Speaker 2: have a kid and they couldn't. And I think John
Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to get my brother a kid.
Speaker 2: I think that's what happened.
Speaker 1: So like he thought he was doing Oh so do
Speaker 1: you think he took Lisa on purpose? For Tiffany, it
Speaker 1: wasn't like oops, I killed this woman that has a kid.
Speaker 1: Now I got to get rid of the kid.
Speaker 2: No, that's why those social workers thought it was shady
Speaker 2: that right before Christmas he was looking to help single
Speaker 2: moms and like young like.
Speaker 1: Women my kids Christmas shopping for his brother. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what it was. That's fucked. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So it was the guys of like, oh, I have
Speaker 2: this program and then it's like, oh, look I have
Speaker 2: this baby.
Speaker 1: Here are the forms.
Speaker 2: And then he also did take money from his brother,
Speaker 2: like his brother owed him fees for this adoption, PA,
Speaker 2: like this fake adoption that was not legal. Wow, Like
Speaker 2: no basement for this guy, No, not at all. So
Speaker 2: the trials started in two thousand and two in Kansas. Morrison,
Speaker 2: the prosecutor said that there was over twenty three thousand
Speaker 2: pages of police reports and more than one hundred witnesses.
Speaker 2: Where were those witnesses before? As just rolling the barrels around?
Speaker 2: I like, what so, Kara. They discovered eighteen hammers on
Speaker 2: his property and it was concluded from the autopsies that
Speaker 2: he killed his victims with a hammer, but the technicians
Speaker 2: were not able to connect the specific hammer to the murders.
Speaker 1: Yikes, that's brutal, brutal. It took the jury less than
Speaker 1: a day to deliver a guilty verdict. On October twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, he was sentenced to death. January
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, Won jurer of the death sentence,
Speaker 1: told ABC News that since he was such a good
Speaker 1: con man, like even from jail, he conned Beverly Bonner
Speaker 1: and like, they were afraid to give him life because
Speaker 1: the same thing could happen, and so it was the
Speaker 1: only appropriate thing was death because he, like you said,
Speaker 1: has no basement ceiling. No, Yeah, so more twists, like
Speaker 1: I said, since he committed crimes in Kansas and Missouri.
Speaker 1: Once that trial wrapped, they sent him to Missouri for
Speaker 1: an another one, and with all his scams and crimes,
Speaker 1: he played jurisdiction games, like I said, so this like
Speaker 1: screwed him, which I kind of like. In Missouri, the
Speaker 1: authorities offered him a deal where if he pled guilty
Speaker 1: and then gave infoo where the remains of the three
Speaker 1: women who had not been found yet, And so the
Speaker 1: plea happened and they like he like never gave any
Speaker 1: info at all, but they took so like what did
Speaker 1: they earn if?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I give him a deal if he's not
Speaker 2: even going to give you the names or where they are.
Speaker 2: But a plea deal went through and he still did
Speaker 2: not cooper.
Speaker 1: Also, he was probably like what is it? What deal
Speaker 1: could possibly be good for me? When I am already
Speaker 1: getting the death penalty in Kansas? Maybe yeah, but like
Speaker 1: Missouri can't really really threaten me now because I'm going
Speaker 1: to die in this other state. I don't know.
Speaker 2: But also like fucking I mean, we're asking someone to
Speaker 2: like not be a piece of shit when yeah, really
Speaker 2: a piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He is now in his late seventies on death row
Speaker 2: in Kansas at the El Dorado Correctional Facility and is
Speaker 2: appealing his death sentence. Now updates on Tiffany's stassy. So
Speaker 2: she was sixteen, you know, when she found out the
Speaker 2: truth about her life. So Tiffany was raised as Heather.
Speaker 2: So Heather's biological father wanted to meet her, but she
Speaker 2: was confused and scared and said she didn't want to
Speaker 2: meet him. But she did become really close to her
Speaker 2: maternal grandmother, who is Pat Sylvester, who passed away in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. Since the adoption was not legal, the Robinson's
Speaker 2: actually legally adopted her when she was eighteen, and she
Speaker 2: decided to keep the given name that she got Heather,
Speaker 2: and she liked her parents, so she stayed there. As
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty, she is thirty five. She married a
Speaker 2: man and is a proud mother of some boys. And
Speaker 2: she is also now looking to connect with her biological father, Carl.
Speaker 2: She can't find him, and she's tried really hard and
Speaker 2: wants to make amends and move forward. She just wasn't
Speaker 2: ready at the time of finding out, and she also
Speaker 2: still hoping to hopefully find Lisa's remains one day to
Speaker 2: properly bury her mother.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's intense. Yeah, and that is that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is the case of John Robinson. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: thank you for all of that research. I'm so surprised
Speaker 1: I haven't heard of this man, especially because I know
Speaker 1: about the barrel murders from Dexter.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know why we don't know more about him,
Speaker 2: because it is also like salacious, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there wasn't even that much like articles about him or pieces,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: It was just like a couple of giant newspapers. And
Speaker 1: it's like I can kind of see why someone like
Speaker 1: him would be able to get away with it in
Speaker 1: the eighties. But then it's like in the nineties, it's
Speaker 1: so funny that he like embraced technology because it's like, dude,
Speaker 1: the only reason you're not busted is because there's no
Speaker 1: way to trace you. And now you're just hop you
Speaker 1: have five computers now and you're just gonna let people
Speaker 1: like make a full trail. But maybe people didn't really
Speaker 1: know yet, like that your computer stores everything forever.
Speaker 2: And if there's more, if you want more. There is
Speaker 2: a twenty twenty like there's a twenty twenty eight. Ooh okay,
Speaker 2: good time and they talk to Heather and stop. So
Speaker 2: he's fucked though he's probably one of the worst people
Speaker 2: we've talked about, and we talk about terrible people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well now we you know, we do have a legend.
Speaker 2: We have a true fucking legend coming onto our show.
Speaker 2: So get your fucking panties out of a twist. Untwist
Speaker 2: those panties and get ready, guys. Today's guest has an
Speaker 2: IMDb resume like you wouldn't believe. We are talking the
Speaker 2: talented mister Ripley, snowfalling on Caesar's American Horse Story, Modern Family,
Speaker 2: and Aliza Trigger classic How to Lose a Guy in
Speaker 2: Ten Days? You guys know her today as Margaret Talmadge.
Speaker 2: Please enjoy our chat with legendary Celia Weston.
Speaker 1: Well before us.
Speaker 2: View, I do want to touch on How to Lose
Speaker 2: a Guy in Ten Days, my ultimate favorite movie, and
Speaker 2: my parents were from Russia, but we learned bullshit from
Speaker 2: that movie.
Speaker 1: We play all the time.
Speaker 2: Such an iconic scene and I was wondering if there
Speaker 2: were memories if you get stopped on the street and
Speaker 2: if people think of you when they play bullshit now forever,
Speaker 2: like we do as a family.
Speaker 3: Everyone knows that film. It has never not played and
Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think there's been a day
Speaker 3: since it's released that it was allowed to play on
Speaker 3: television that it hasn't. And I know I watched it
Speaker 3: this past week, you know, I can't.
Speaker 4: Get enough of it.
Speaker 3: But one day, some time ago now, I was going
Speaker 3: to a screening on Houston Street, the Far East theater
Speaker 3: there that has some multiplex and they have special screenings
Speaker 3: there sometimes, And as usual, I was early and I
Speaker 3: haven't looked down at the box office, and I thought
Speaker 3: I saw a familiar figure and I just kind of
Speaker 3: walked towards it, and it was Matthew mcck just deciding
Speaker 3: if he wanted to see a film. You know, he
Speaker 3: has some time to kill, and so I just walked
Speaker 3: up behind him and I said, it's your mom, and
Speaker 3: he turned around and we had a nice big hug
Speaker 3: and I said, that film, my gosh, it's just been
Speaker 3: a cash cow.
Speaker 4: And he said, the gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker 3: I thought, yeah, I bet your gift package is a
Speaker 3: little bit bigger than mine.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I'm not complaining.
Speaker 1: I love it. That's so funny. I love you going
Speaker 1: up to Matthew mcconey on the street for a hug.
Speaker 1: That's so fun. And then we interviewed the actor Daniel
Speaker 1: Sunjata on our podcast a few weeks ago, and he
Speaker 1: mentioned this show Echoes. And then when I was looking
Speaker 1: up what you've been up to, I saw you're going
Speaker 1: to be an Echoes and it looks amazing. What can
Speaker 1: you tell us about that project?
Speaker 3: Well, you probably know a lot more about it than
Speaker 3: I do, but I did have it in my notes
Speaker 3: because I loved doing it.
Speaker 4: I loved my part.
Speaker 3: The writing was beautiful, and we worked with women directors
Speaker 3: and I'm sorry we still have to make that distinction,
Speaker 3: but and women, I second ads and that was thrilling.
Speaker 3: The costume designer was wonderful and helped so much in
Speaker 3: making distinctive my character.
Speaker 4: Because you know, I'm I'm not lit. I don't have
Speaker 4: the Internet.
Speaker 3: Or mart phone, so I can't keep checking in for
Speaker 3: these things. But if you know when it's airing, tell me.
Speaker 1: Oh, we would love to know. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure, but it sounds like it's going to be
Speaker 1: one of those Netflix bingeable shows that everybody's obsessed with.
Speaker 4: To me, of course, I don't have Netflix.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so let me ask you. I mean, I
Speaker 2: waste most of my life on my cell phone, computer, laptop.
Speaker 1: So what are you are you reading?
Speaker 2: What do you do with your lovely days that you're
Speaker 2: not sucked in by a cell phone?
Speaker 3: Well, I text and I'm addicted to television and it's
Speaker 3: an occupational hazard, so I have no shame about it.
Speaker 1: Well, let's let's dive into your Let's dive into this
Speaker 1: episode Stolen that you are a main character in. I
Speaker 1: know it is from many many years ago, season three
Speaker 1: of SVU, so when they were a little baby show
Speaker 1: before they became the juggernaut that they are now. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember, but like you know,
Speaker 1: you your character Captain Cragan comes to see you after
Speaker 1: many many years of your daughter's murder case, like kind
Speaker 1: of going cold. And I've never seen anybody happier to
Speaker 1: see Captain Craigan. You're like, it's Captain Craigan. I was
Speaker 1: just wondering if you liked working with Dan Fluorrek. We
Speaker 1: got to speak to him on our podcast and we
Speaker 1: love him, and we had a lot of scenes with him.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think he's very appealing. Obviously that shows from
Speaker 3: his endurance on the series. I tell you what I remember,
Speaker 3: especially was what a beautiful home we were in. And
Speaker 3: I have no idea where that is in New York?
Speaker 4: Is that does that exist?
Speaker 3: It's like a just after turn of the century, beautiful
Speaker 3: construction and craftsmanship and all these homes.
Speaker 1: Do you know where we shot it?
Speaker 4: You know, they just drove me there.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: That's what all the actors say. We're always like, where
Speaker 1: were you in that scene? And they go, we just
Speaker 1: get in a van and then we're in a new place,
Speaker 1: like we don't.
Speaker 4: Know, we're in a trailer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: Don't call us, We'll call you.
Speaker 3: And but it was beautiful and I was happy for
Speaker 3: them to at least have that having lost their daughter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a beautiful I.
Speaker 3: Do remember this scene, the last scene for us in
Speaker 3: Captain Craigan's office, when our grandson is being introduced to
Speaker 3: us for the first time since his abduction, and we're
Speaker 3: in Craigan's office and the door open send boys brought
Speaker 3: into us, And I do remember how impactful that was.
Speaker 4: And that it was short and sweet.
Speaker 3: I don't even know if we had lines, but I
Speaker 3: do remember I had this amount of time to live
Speaker 3: everything that she was really feeling and was gratified that
Speaker 3: that did happen.
Speaker 4: I felt as an actor.
Speaker 3: But then to see it, to see actual a real
Speaker 3: flood of actually.
Speaker 5: Dropping dripping with a like a shadow as they came
Speaker 5: down on that all right, that you know you want
Speaker 5: to have the real emotion but then also have real
Speaker 5: water works with a shadow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I actually noticed that. I was. I
Speaker 1: thought that scene was so emotional and really powerful, and
Speaker 1: I was like, how did these actors get their eyes
Speaker 1: to like fill up with tears and then only let
Speaker 1: like one or two juicy tears fall like at a
Speaker 1: certain time, Like it's really it was really impressive. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Do you, like, what do you usually do?
Speaker 1: Do you are you good at crying on cue? Do
Speaker 1: you usually think of something super sad in your life?
Speaker 3: Or you know, you just live it and you have
Speaker 3: ways to get yourself there. But I do remember in
Speaker 3: working on Ang Lee's film Ride with the Devil. It
Speaker 3: was a Civil War era film and I was a
Speaker 3: widowed farm wife.
Speaker 4: I won't make you go through the whole story.
Speaker 3: But a battle between union soldiers and renegades non soldiers
Speaker 3: happens in my home and there's a big shootout with
Speaker 3: my young daughter's life and jeopardy and mine, And so
Speaker 3: I remember aang asking me, you know, I was crying
Speaker 3: because of the circumstances, but I remember him asking me
Speaker 3: for a tear on on like a word, and while
Speaker 3: I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna do this shucker, And
Speaker 3: I did. And they didn't use that shot in the
Speaker 3: scene at all, but no, I know, but you know,
Speaker 3: I was glad I could deliver the goods.
Speaker 2: Well, back to SVU, do you have an opinion on
Speaker 2: what should have happened to your grandson?
Speaker 4: What did happen?
Speaker 1: They sent him with his.
Speaker 2: Biological father d Yeah, we didn't know about or the
Speaker 2: biological dad didn't know he existed. So they took him
Speaker 2: from his adoptive parents and gave him to the biological
Speaker 2: dat And we were pissed.
Speaker 4: I see that.
Speaker 3: I guess we just felt just knowing he was alive
Speaker 3: and could be in our lives somehow was what my
Speaker 3: takeaway on it. So and then best and those I
Speaker 3: do remember being in the court scene because I remember
Speaker 3: Stephanie Marsh coming over and introducing herself to me. We
Speaker 3: didn't have anything to do but reaction shots in the gallery,
Speaker 3: you know, in the court scene. But she came over
Speaker 3: and introduced herself, and I thought she was just charming.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, that's all.
Speaker 1: I took away from No, that's totally fine. We were
Speaker 1: just like, let him visit his grandparents and let him
Speaker 1: stay with his adopted parents. We had lots of thoughts,
Speaker 1: you know, but that's our job. And have you always
Speaker 1: lived in New York, well, bless your hearts as Southern gal.
Speaker 4: No, I've been here since drama school, since college.
Speaker 1: Do you tend to just book a lot of Southern roles,
Speaker 1: because I mean, I'm sure you have, like you've gone
Speaker 1: to drama school. I'm sure you can like hide your accent.
Speaker 1: But do you think it's just like something about you
Speaker 1: you just book all these roles as a Southern lady or.
Speaker 3: I know that I bring an authenticity to it, and
Speaker 3: I take a lot of pride in that, because there's
Speaker 3: nothing more heinous to a Southerner than the lack of.
Speaker 4: That and rendering a Southern persona.
Speaker 3: And I have a very good ear so I'm happy
Speaker 3: to be able to delineate pretty specifically between who's from
Speaker 3: where and they're level of education, their economics of their
Speaker 3: lives and things like that. It always just depends on
Speaker 3: the writing, you know, and the role as you guys know,
Speaker 3: That's what draw.
Speaker 1: Is one of my big story.
Speaker 2: I was gonna tell you to tell Celia about seeing
Speaker 2: Palms in the movie theater.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I saw Poems in the movie theater with
Speaker 1: my new baby, Like I had like a two month
Speaker 1: old baby with me, and I took her to see
Speaker 1: Palms with some friends, and I just like loved that
Speaker 1: movie so much, and I guess I kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to know what it sounds like. You really appreciated the
Speaker 1: experience on echoes of having all these female directors, and
Speaker 1: I was wondering, like about your experience on Palms with
Speaker 1: this like powerhouse of actresses and a mostly female cast.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, it was wonderful. It's a third film I've
Speaker 4: done with Diane Keaton.
Speaker 3: On the other two she directed, and I just admired
Speaker 3: her so much. Of course, the location was outside of Atlanta,
Speaker 3: and it was incumbent upon us to make out a
Speaker 3: Southern character.
Speaker 4: But I love that.
Speaker 3: I mean, I knew that woman like mother's milk, you
Speaker 3: know that all of this superficiality of being so welcoming
Speaker 3: and gracious and yet underneath just this is my world
Speaker 3: and you're just maybe in it, but conscribe or get out,
Speaker 3: all couched in that solemn nicety and welcoming.
Speaker 4: So I loved that role that I got to be
Speaker 4: the villain.
Speaker 1: I was wondering, You've played so many characters in so
Speaker 1: many different roles. Is there is there ever like a
Speaker 1: Is there ever like a role that you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I wish I got cast as that like a like
Speaker 1: something you're dying to play.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, let's start over and just talk about that.
Speaker 4: It's a cruel world. Yes, that has definitely happened. And
Speaker 4: I've had.
Speaker 3: Letters, you know, more than one actually from directors after
Speaker 3: did something did not go my way saying, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe we should have done this together.
Speaker 1: Ooh, like letters of regret. That must feel good.
Speaker 4: I'm saying, that must go good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does.
Speaker 3: I mean it's not like I have thirty on a
Speaker 3: wall somewhere, but when it happens, you go, well, yeah,
Speaker 3: me too.
Speaker 2: By way, if you came back to a law and
Speaker 2: order franchise or you know, specifically s view would you
Speaker 2: what kind of character would you like to play?
Speaker 1: Have you played a killer?
Speaker 4: Have I played a killer?
Speaker 2: We need you back as like, oh killer, No one
Speaker 2: would suspect are you gay?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: I probably have to play it in a caller here
Speaker 3: and embraces and canes, just to do the actually take
Speaker 3: a person out without if it's just mashing some pills
Speaker 3: and putting it in a drink.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I could do that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean they don't. They don't show a
Speaker 1: lot of murders in action on us. For you, we
Speaker 1: usually just find a body, you know, that's true. So
Speaker 1: I think we could easily.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I can imagine telling detectives like please leave my house
Speaker 2: without a warrant, you know, family.
Speaker 1: I can see that in my fantasy. This has been
Speaker 1: so wonderful. I don't know if you have anything like
Speaker 1: to add about, you know, an interaction with iced tea
Speaker 1: or something, but you don't. You don't have to if
Speaker 1: you don't.
Speaker 3: We had so little interaction with the actual cast. You
Speaker 3: know just what I said, because Dan Floord came to
Speaker 3: our house and then we're in the courtroom as supernumeraries
Speaker 3: and with cutting to reaction shots. We weren't ever you know,
Speaker 3: being interrogated in a room or those juicy things and
Speaker 3: where they're trying to get our fingerprints on a coke
Speaker 3: can or that stuff.
Speaker 4: Get to do that, didn't get a coke out of it?
Speaker 2: No, no, yeah, we need you back on the show.
Speaker 2: That'll be my request.
Speaker 1: What an icon.
Speaker 2: And obviously love a lady that stays in New York,
Speaker 2: Like I feel like all the coolest actresses we talked
Speaker 2: to are always like.
Speaker 1: She's just like a Southern actress, like swishing around New
Speaker 1: York being like hello, Matthew McConaughey, it's mega mama. I
Speaker 1: love that.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, so accomplished. We really get to talk to
Speaker 2: the best. I was watching Old Drag Race, like I
Speaker 2: set up top and like Dennis O'Hare was a judge,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, we fucking talked to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of wild, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And then our friend Joel Kinbooster was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: shocked that you were able to get him, and I'm like, honey,
Speaker 2: have you seen who else we get Dennis o hair
Speaker 2: should be so lucky.
Speaker 1: No, we loved him. Oh my god, he was a dream.
Speaker 1: This was a twisted one. Yeah, the real life case
Speaker 1: was super twisted. The case in the episode was just
Speaker 1: kind of one of those classic SVU like more like
Speaker 1: morality quandaries that they give you, like what's the right
Speaker 1: move here? You know, I didn't really think what happened
Speaker 1: in the episode was the right move, but whatever.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: I but yeah, they should have given the boys.
Speaker 2: They should He should have been able to stay with
Speaker 2: his adoptive family and just like visit his highlation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then he could have like a big fun family.
Speaker 2: But like what the fuck just being like nope, you're
Speaker 2: out of there. I hate that dad, and I only
Speaker 2: think of him as the sex and the city guy
Speaker 2: who likes to be spanked, so I can't even take
Speaker 2: him seriously as a father. I'm like, go home and
Speaker 2: watch your sick o porn, sir. But yeah, the crime
Speaker 2: was upsetting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean these kind of crimes I feel like,
Speaker 1: don't really happen anymore where someone like is able to
Speaker 1: go untraced, like luring people across the country because like
Speaker 1: they I mean, he started to have like email, right,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of how he got busted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also and it's also twisted and you I
Speaker 2: think you do jokes about this right about like said
Speaker 2: Bundy having a girlfriend, Yeah, quiet girl, Like I also
Speaker 2: this man had a wife as he's just like luring
Speaker 2: women to their deaths.
Speaker 1: I mean, Fritzel had his own daughter in the basement
Speaker 1: and his mom and his wife had no idea her
Speaker 1: mom like it's it's really I wonder if it's like
Speaker 1: they know but they can't face it, or they really
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, like when you hear the Green
Speaker 1: River killer's wife talk about him, she's like he was
Speaker 1: a perfect husband. And this man murdered. I think he's
Speaker 1: one of the most prolific serial killers of all time.
Speaker 1: He murdered like upwards of fifty women and mostly sex workers,
Speaker 1: and he just had this wife who was like, he
Speaker 1: was the best husband. And actually when he was married
Speaker 1: to her, the killings went down. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. That's fucked, Like it.
Speaker 2: Is fucked, and that he is not more known, like
Speaker 2: the fact we didn't know more about him when he
Speaker 2: like inspired Dexter episodes too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with all these yeah, how some of these things.
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting because It's like it's like how we
Speaker 1: talked about how the the shark eyed guy who kill
Speaker 1: all all his kids, Like I forgot the name of
Speaker 1: that Wes Marcus Weston, Like that was buried by the
Speaker 1: the case of Scott Peterson, or like right now, I
Speaker 1: feel like the only reason we're paying attention to Amberherd
Speaker 1: and Johnny Depp is because there's like not really anything else.
Speaker 1: There's like nothing else going on in the news to
Speaker 1: like rival it that. You know that, So there's just
Speaker 1: these certain crimes that dip like that pediatrician that molested
Speaker 1: all those children. Why is that not Why is that
Speaker 1: not something we all know about? You know, Like it's crazy,
Speaker 1: like you're looking up that shit in like Delaware newspapers
Speaker 1: that that's it. Like it's crazy what gets national attention,
Speaker 1: is all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, after talking about Dexter, I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: are we promised to season two for New Blood?
Speaker 1: And I don't think we are. I think that they'll
Speaker 1: do it right.
Speaker 2: I want it. I want some ghost stuff. I want it.
Speaker 2: I just want Michael Seahall working, you know.
Speaker 1: I beg him. I believe in his talent, and I
Speaker 1: just I want him really well, and that could be
Speaker 1: part of the problem is he might have something else
Speaker 1: going on. I mean, it's kind of hit it hinges
Speaker 1: on him.
Speaker 4: You don't think that.
Speaker 1: There's a possible like HBO show in development with that
Speaker 1: guy now, because I would have known about it. I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan. Okay, she's just got Google alerts for
Speaker 1: Michael C. Hall.
Speaker 2: No, I'm gonna look it up right now if he
Speaker 2: has anything in pre production. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong,
Speaker 2: but I feel like I would have known if he
Speaker 2: has an upcoming project, yeah, upcoming projects one? All right,
Speaker 2: he's in the Gettysburg address. Okay, maybe that was about
Speaker 2: Lincoln's getty Burgh. Okay, so he's in something not interesting
Speaker 2: that sucks. Oh, Jason Alexander's in it. Good for him.
Speaker 1: It's just like a historical movie starring a bunch of
Speaker 1: people that we consider to be washed up. I guess. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's see. So I don't know what we've learned from
Speaker 1: this episode is you should let twelve year olds decide
Speaker 1: if they want to live with their fucking mom's murderers
Speaker 1: sons or not, and also wear a condom.
Speaker 2: You fucking loose dicked lunatics in college, pericondom abortions about
Speaker 2: to be illegal, stop willing ill Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, so there's someone who's.
Speaker 2: Been really trying hard to lure me on Instagram, and
Speaker 2: I had a couple of drunk nights in Finland that
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, I'll talk to you. But
Speaker 2: and I've complained about this in the past, the like
Speaker 2: quickness that people want to come inside strangers is shocking
Speaker 2: to me, even like on tender like third messages are
Speaker 2: like can I come inside you? And it's like you
Speaker 2: don't even know my last name. That's insane to me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's insane. That's insane that you're with message that you're
Speaker 2: willing to just like jizz so freely. Yeah, maybe I
Speaker 2: could take some screenshots. Wow, I just don't understand it.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand if the risk involved is really
Speaker 2: worth it to stop jizzing in people, stop being loose
Speaker 2: in college, take responsibility. Yeah, stop marrying women that are
Speaker 2: clear killers.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, be sexually free, but don't you know,
Speaker 1: don't fucking uh. And also yeah, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: feel like this taught me like a little bit more
Speaker 1: about the adoption process and how difficult it is, which
Speaker 1: actually leads us into what would sister peg do? Oh wow,
Speaker 1: look at you. Well, I really didn't even mean to
Speaker 1: do that, but I know, but that was impressive. You
Speaker 1: could be on the view honestly with that kind of transition.
Speaker 1: Have you better watch it?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, we haven't seen each other forever. Megan
Speaker 2: McCain's book was such a flop. That flop, bitch, I
Speaker 2: was so funny you saw about this. She sold three
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty two copies of the book like lejo yes,
Speaker 2: And so then she went to her dad's grave and
Speaker 2: put the book in front of his grave to help
Speaker 2: try to sell it. And then I saw a clip
Speaker 2: online that I reposted that was like someone cut all
Speaker 2: of the time. She goes my father, my father, my father,
Speaker 2: my father, And it was over six minutes long.
Speaker 1: Like everything is on the back of her father, of
Speaker 1: her living off of John McCain's name.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: And I don't even know.
Speaker 2: If he was that well liked. It's like, you're moderately liked.
Speaker 2: Father is who you're name dropping.
Speaker 1: I don't like Lisa, that is a floppy yaw. Oh nah,
Speaker 1: Like I could sell three hundred books.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean just your summer camp friends alone. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you'd be able to sell a thousand books.
Speaker 1: Well, and our listeners, my summer camp friends, my mom group, yeah, like,
Speaker 1: and then I take it to the That's messed up people.
Speaker 1: I bet you guys buy a few copies. I don't know, like,
Speaker 1: but that's wow. Well listen three, I'm actually going to
Speaker 1: talk about a book that you should Actually this isn't
Speaker 1: a book, never mine. I'm going to talk about an
Speaker 1: article that you should read, not a book. Are what
Speaker 1: would Sister Peg do? Segment? Guys, this is every week
Speaker 1: we tell you an organization, we point you to an article,
Speaker 1: a book, some kind of resource that can help flesh
Speaker 1: out what we talked about on today's episode, and we
Speaker 1: wanted to point you towards this article that's called This
Speaker 1: is What Nobody Tells You About Adoption by Andrea Ross.
Speaker 1: It was for the Huffington Post and as an adopted
Speaker 1: child herself, Ross discusses the types of trauma that a
Speaker 1: child can experience when their adoptive parents don't have the
Speaker 1: tools to help them navigate not only the life they
Speaker 1: brought into, but the questions surrounding their heritage, and she
Speaker 1: wants to to reframe the narrative around adoption, which has
Speaker 1: also been centered around a harmful myth that children have
Speaker 1: been like quote unquote rescued or saved, and offer a
Speaker 1: more nuanced perspective that can be helpful for those who
Speaker 1: are raising adopted children. And I have friends who are
Speaker 1: in that process right now, so I know that this
Speaker 1: affects a lot of people, and it's really oh, it's
Speaker 1: like very heavy on a lot of sides, and I
Speaker 1: think this is a great article that will give you
Speaker 1: more infos. So it is in our show notes. I
Speaker 1: can't really read it out to you right now because
Speaker 1: it involves a lot of backslashes and numbers, but check
Speaker 1: out our show notes for a link to that, and
Speaker 1: as always in our Instagram stories called WWSPD.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you all for always getting involved and learning
Speaker 2: about things. Now next week we will be doing Legacy
Speaker 2: and that's season two, episode four.
Speaker 1: Watch it on Hulu, Peacock VPN.
Speaker 2: Not a stick, or you can visit your local library
Speaker 2: maybe even you know who knows. But truly a pleasure
Speaker 2: to have listeners as special as you.
Speaker 1: Keep messaging us, send us emails. We love you guys,
Speaker 1: see you next week.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and.
Speaker 1: At glitter Cheese. As always, please see our show notes
Speaker 1: for sources and more information. Thank you so much to
Speaker 1: our producer an Elis Nelson, and to our mixer John Bradley,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
Speaker 1: at Exactly Right Media. Dune Done