WEBVTT - How the Alberta NDP Competes In One of Canada's Most Conservative Provinces 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:15.080 Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:19.959 I'm Joe Wisenthal. Unfortunately my co host, Tracy Elloway is 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.400 out today, so it'll just be me solo. But it's 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.119 going to build on some conversations that Tracy and I 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.319 have been having lately on the show. So as everyone knows, 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:31.320 you know, it's a theme that we've really been talking 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.880 about for maybe two years now, or at least a 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:35.880 year and a half, and this idea of like, okay, 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:41.360 supply side expansion. Everybody likes the idea in theory of like, okay, 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.920 expanding productive capacity in the economy, and it's very hot 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.320 right now. You've all kinds of people talk about it. 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.560 We had as a reclient, for example, on the show, 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.680 talk about it recently. We also see it in d C. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.720 There's real action, and the Inflation Reduction Act is specifically 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:01.600 about building out capacity and investing in a new energy 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.240 and so forth. We sell it with the CHIPSACKED that 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:11.480 was also passed about building up US domestic semiconductor capacity, etcetera. However, 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:13.880 that Big said, I still believe that there is this 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:19.160 core tension, particularly among left or liberal parties, and you 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.600 definitely see in Democrats. Clearly, one aspect of building out 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:27.600 supply side capacity is energy and oil, gas and so forth, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.839 and obviously there's interest in renewables, but in the meantime 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.440 this is a real constraint inflation, high gas prices, high 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.560 electricity prices, etcetera. And while on one hand you have, 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.800 you know, there's an impulse to expand supply side capacity, 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.080 there are also climate goals. And so I believe that 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.240 there is this real tension among sort of left liberal 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.640 parties in the West, at least specifically between yes, this 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:58.640 idea of expanding supply side capacity versus meeting climate goals 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.560 and not giving boost per how to put it to 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.320 the fossil fuel industry, And I don't think that parties 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:10.960 have really resolved this tension. That being said, there is 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.960 a party that has been thinking about this tension and 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.200 finding a way to resolve it, both in terms of 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:20.280 policy and politics, for a long time, and that is 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.839 the Alberta n DP. Alberta is historically been a very 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.960 sort of energy Energy is a huge part of the economy, 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:32.160 and it's also seen as a conservative province. And yet 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.040 the Alberta n DP has had a surprising, a shocking 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:40.120 amount of electoral success in the province having been in 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:45.240 power from the rough en sort of this meteoric like shocker, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.440 and it reminds me personally of the fact that you know, 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.160 Joe Mansion can win in West Virginia in some respect 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.919 because you know, there's such a in the US, such 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.400 a red area. Maybe it would be characterized. I don't 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.320 know what the color schemes are in Canada, but similar idea. 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.600 And so I want to learn more about the Alberta NDP, 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.680 how they do it politically, and how they think about 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.000 these potentially competing policy goals. So I'm very thrilled to 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.360 welcome to the podcast today. I am going to be 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.680 speaking with Rachel Notley. She is the leader of Alberta's 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.480 official opposition, the leader of the Alberta NDP, and she 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:26.000 was the provincial chief from the year through nine. An 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.160 election season is gearing up in Alberta once again, could 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.000 be uh the spring, it could be sooner, maybe later 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.600 because of how parliamentary systems work. So we're gonna talk 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.320 about what what's going to come up in this election season. So, Rachel, 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.560 thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Well, 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.840 it's a pleasure to be here, um, Joe, and it 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.440 sounds like you've been having some very interesting conversations as 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:53.040 we go through a lot of economic growth and evolution. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.440 I really do think this is like a really difficult 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.640 um challenge, you know, in the US for example, for 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.320 the Demo Credit Party, and I suspect for the National 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.080 NDP and Canada as well, though you'll tell me more 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.600 about that, But it seems like you've kind of correct 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.440 the code like to some extent, at least electorally, but 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.840 from a policy standpoint, like just let's start big picture, 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.920 like how do you think about balancing the importance of 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.040 the natural resource sector, the importance of energy both from 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:26.520 a sort of employment standpoint and abundant energy perspective with 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:33.120 also thinking about climate goals. Well, um, you know, I 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.000 think probably from the very start one of the things 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.200 we've tried to do is avoid using terms like balance 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.599 because it is it implies the notion that they they 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.800 run against each other. Uh and and the reality is that, 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:49.359 you know, one of the things we have to remember 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.600 is that you know, um, there are a lot of 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.359 things that impact economic activity, and given time, one of 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.960 the things that's impacting that it now is the collective 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.760 need to grapple with climate change. And and so what 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.400 you therefore need to do to continue to grow the 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.320 economy and provide good paying jobs is to also address 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.440 one of the pressures impacting your economic activity, in this 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:20.000 case climate change. And so addressing climate change is part 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.320 of good economic policy. It is not a countervailing force 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.799 to good economic policy. And and so if you start there, 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.840 then you you know, you flow from that this notion 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.760 that pinning one against the other means that you will 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.080 fail on both. And and so that's one thing that's 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:38.680 sort of driven a lot of what we've had to 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.240 say from the very beginning. As as as you describe 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.080 us as sort of a left leaning party, there is 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:51.600 no question that we start our um journey towards economic 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.320 growth and end development from the perspective of wanting to 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.880 ensure that there are good paying jobs for everyone who wants, 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.680 and that there is a high level of prosperity for 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.760 all citizens, not just a few. And and so obviously, 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.880 uh so so we do that. That aligns very much 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.680 with my history, which is long years old in the 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.000 n DP, because I was born into a very political 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.240 family and have worked in the labor movement before getting 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:26.200 into politics, and and so I don't see standing up 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:30.040 for working people as being a in any way, shape 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.240 or form as being in contradiction to my values as 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.159 a new Democrat. And I also believe very strongly that 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.800 respecting and acting on science and reality is also a 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:45.200 fundamental part of being a new Democrat and someone who's 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.560 left leaning and so and and that's why we must 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.160 also work to address the issues of climate change. Well, 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:58.320 there are those who argue that no, Canada can't simultaneously 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:03.800 be a fossil fuel or energy powerhouse and also hit 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:08.000 emissions goals or do what's necessary in order to defeat 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.360 climate change or to reduce emissions enough to bring that 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:17.680 into into appropriate range. Why do you why are they wrong? Well, 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.480 first of all, because you know, a big part of 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.960 Canada's economy not just altbirdas I mean a bird of 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.800 you know, for your viewers, a bird is essentially you know, uh, 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.840 from an economic point of view, it's it's Canada's Texas, 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:30.720 and so it gives you a sense of how much 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.640 of our economy is driven by the non renewable sector. 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.200 And and of course we in turn drive considerably more 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.600 of the Canadian economy than our population or geographic size 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.840 would suggest. And and so the reality is is that, 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:53.200 but we are also a democracy. So you know, should we, uh, 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:58.360 you know, simply act solely on matters of climate change 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:03.880 without doing the hard work to maintain strong employment and 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.960 and strong economic capacity while doing that, then quite honestly, 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.520 the whole issue would fail because in the next election, 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.200 those people who were doing that would get thrown out 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.040 and and uh and and then you know, there'd be 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.800 this this swing back to to the other direction. And 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.240 to be clear, in both cases, not only would we 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.840 meet our our our climate change goals, we would also 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.240 mess around with our economy because the uncertainty created by 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.360 that and the and the stop and go created by 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.040 that would of course undermine our economic growth. So that 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:41.480 being said, there's no question that that there is the 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.079 capacity to create jobs out of the investments that are 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:49.040 necessary to ensure the oil and gas producers and non 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:54.640 renewable resource producers significantly reduce their admissions both in the 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.920 process of production as well as in um in the 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.000 in the application of the product once it's produced. So 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.840 there is money to be made in that and and 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.680 that requires creativity in a number of different ways, and 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.000 that's where you get into issues of carbon pricing, but 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.679 doing so in a way that that still keeps the 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.920 day to day experience of those folks who we owe 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:36.480 our job to in mind. Front center. Can you talk 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.280 a little bit about your experience with carbon pricing and 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.679 how you think it should be applied because in the US, 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.120 of course, again I mentioned we recently passed the Inflation 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.320 Reduction Act, and it feels like the direction here is 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.520 the sort of like all carrots to no sticks approach, 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.840 and there's very little that is would curtail any carbon 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:02.720 intensive energy. It's mostly about subsidies and accelerating the production 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.959 of renewables. What is your view and experience with how 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.679 carbon pricing can work? Well, I mean, I think, first 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.400 of all, what carbon pricing does is it I mean, 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.160 I suppose to a certain degree, as a stick approach, 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:19.360 it provides an incentive for producers of emissions to do 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:23.000 their homework and and and find the easy wins to 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.040 reduce their missions. I mean, it just is what it is, 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.120 and some of that's easier than others. I mean, you know, 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.920 methane for instances, that is sort of the you know, 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.520 commonly referred to low hanging fruit and other stuff is 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.760 more complicated. So there is a bit of a of 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.160 a stick there, but it is also a carrot because 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.160 a good portion of the resources that come in from 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.480 collecting that carbon tax or that carbon price are then 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:53.160 redevoted to assisting and supporting efforts to reduce emissions. And 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.320 it's not necessarily redevoted right in directly to the non 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.960 renewable resource producer, although in some cases it is for 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:05.920 sure we actually support technology that is directly focused on 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.800 extracting oil and gas. But in other cases it also 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.000 helped us, for instance, to fund what we referred to 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.520 as the REP program, which was the renewable Energy program, 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.520 and what we were able to do there because even 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.240 though Alberta is a probably the sunniest place in Canada, 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:21.760 and it's got a lot of wind in certain parts 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:23.400 of the province and blah blah blah, we had a 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.880 very nascent renewable energy industry here and we used some 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.880 of the funds from the Climate Leadership Program, which was 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:32.839 what we referred to We referred to it as the 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.320 c LB when we were charged, and it of course 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.880 created funds as a result of the attacks, and we 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.040 used some of those funds to create a create a 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.000 a reverse auction where we invited renewable energy proponents from 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:50.080 across the continent to bid down the cost of renewable 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.280 energy products into Alberta. And as a result of doing that, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.800 we ultimately we're very excited because we ended up getting 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:03.520 much less expensive renewable energy production then had previously been 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.319 approved in other parts of the continent. We be started 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:11.360 to become a real destination for renewable energy investment. We 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:17.440 encouraged and succeeded in in partnering with indigenous proponents and 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.960 uh in some cases they just were leading the whole thing, 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.920 and we were able to really kick start and industry 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.520 that hadn't existed before. And moreover, some of the biggest proponents, 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:28.640 some of the biggest people who bought into that were 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.719 of course non renewable energy producers themselves setting up their 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:37.040 own renewable energy production in order to help reduce the 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:42.280 energy required for their extraction efforts. You know, you mentioned 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.040 sort of working with the indigenous people's interests. Can you 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.199 talk a little bit more about how you think about that, 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.480 because of course, again this is another area in which, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.320 at least in the US, among liberals and the left. 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.520 There's an increasing weight on this and we do know 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.719 that around the world, and we you know, even if 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.640 you look at say the recent attempt at a referendum 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.800 in Chile, for example, this tension of extractive industries with 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.440 the consideration of indigenous populations, how you think about how 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.480 that works? No, Burn, Well, you know, I think the 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.400 first thing to to to do is to understand that, 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:25.080 you know, the interests and the desired paths of First 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.040 Nations communities across the country are not homogeneous. There is 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.640 a difference between many of them, so that's first thing. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.440 But with respect to but where there is an interest 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:41.000 in participating in economic development in partnership with programs that 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.480 are are being considered by provincial and federal governments as 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.280 well as municipal then I think it's really important for 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.040 provincial governments in our case, we're provincial government, to do 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:54.400 everything we can to offer up opportunities to to partner 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.360 with indigenous groups. Honestly, this is one of the few 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.160 things that that we've agreed with our political opponents over 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.680 when they created the Indigenous Opportunities Corporation, because they put 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.920 aside funding to help provide financing that some Indigenous groups 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.880 wouldn't otherwise get access to to help them partner in 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.040 some of these projects. Now that being said, when even 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.360 notwithstanding that, we were successful in working with groups too. 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.960 You know, in in Fort Mackay we got a community 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.360 off of diesel. We've been working anyway, We've we've been 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.480 able to do a number of different projects. But really 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.040 in the spirit of reconciliation, it's all about offering up 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:39.200 opportunities where they are desired, but certainly working with them 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.680 where they are not. And we know there's not consistency 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.800 across the board, and and there's a lot of work 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.120 to be done. It's very complex, you know, relationship between 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:53.160 Indigenous people, different communities within those indigenous communities, as well 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.440 as the courts and the evolving constitutional law on it. 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:01.680 So it's very complicated. But for sure, where possible, we 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.080 absolutely want to work with First Nations communities to give 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.840 them the kind of economic agency and independence and opportunity 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.800 that that they're seeking. Let's talk more about just sort 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.440 of the Alberta energy industry would you like to see 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.840 or the Canadian and energy industry depending on the framing, 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.000 would you like to see Canada become a natural gas 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.200 export powerhouse, because obviously that's a major focus here in 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.320 the US, and the entire world is sort of clearly 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:37.560 thirsty for any molecule of natural gas that can be produced, 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.480 you know, in the US and Canada. And my understanding 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.240 is that the ellergy export capacity in Canada is not 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.720 as big and not growing as fast as it is 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.960 in the US. Would you like to see that grow? Well? 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.600 I think absolutely. Ellen Gy provides a lot of potential opportunities, 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.760 not only for US as out Burtons in terms of 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.160 exporting a product we have a heck of a lot up, 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.480 but also uh in a larger picture because you know, 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.720 obviously there are energy security issues, which you know just 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.480 and and we know that energy security continues to be 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.800 a front of a front and center issue, and so 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.920 lergy is is an answer to that, and and we 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.800 have a lot of good products. But there is no 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.240 question that our regulatory schemes here in Canada have presented 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.520 a bit of a challenge as well as some of 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.600 the you know, court determined processes that we're compelled to 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:32.480 go through. But I think in the long term it 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.040 does provide an opportunity. It is you know, obviously much 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.120 lower emissions, it's cleaner, it's non renewable, it's cleaner. It 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.600 may not be you know, our long term, permanent, permanent solution, 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.640 but it is absolutely an improvement over a lot of 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.880 different other forms of non renewable energy. It also forms 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:54.360 the basis for hydrogen, which has incredible opportunities and and 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.680 we're our party is doing doing work with a lot 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.800 of stakeholders about our opportunities and hydrogen here in a 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:05.000 Berta again, trying to create and keep jobs here for 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.479 skilled trades people in that industry or in the one 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.600 gas industry as a whole. So so yeah, it definitely 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.639 provides opportunities. It's not the bet, it's not everything, but 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.840 it is absolutely something that we need to be uh, 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.480 taking advantage of for sure. So you mentioned and let's 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.440 talk politics for a second, because you characterized Alberta as 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.680 Canada's Texas, and that seems apt to me. I've never 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.280 been to Alberta, but you know, I've seen pictures of 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.600 the Calgary Stampede and I'm like, yeah, that sounds right. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:36.960 I used to I used to live in Texas myself, 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.320 so you know when I've seen those photos, like, yeah, 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.119 that sounds like an apt analogy. And yet you know 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.600 here you are you you won and you you you 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:48.879 are the premier of the province. From now you're in 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.959 the opposition. You may regain power in the forthcoming elections. 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.439 Like what is it? Is it just in your view? 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.199 Is it just the sort of the energy standpoint? Like 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.560 how do you break through in a region? I mean, 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.200 like the Democrats can't figure out figure it out here 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.399 outside of West Virginia, Like what do you think it is? 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.400 And other lessons for the broader NDP that you think 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.119 they could take from looking at the success of the 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.000 Alberta and paid well, I think I will say, I mean, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.960 it's interesting. I was listening to a different podcast a 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.720 few days ago that was noting that, you know, Alberta 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.600 is a lot more complicated and a lot more multicultural, 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.239 a lot more diverse than than some of it's the 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.520 more traditional characterizations of it. Um so I think that 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.119 that is so is Texas. So is Texas to be fair, 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.720 and you know that's probably so again, Yeah, sorry, we 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.320 go on, But it is true also that people have 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.320 some conception of Texas. But then you know, go to 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.280 the Houston suburbs or something like that. And it's probably 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.359 not what many people have in mind, but sorry, keep going. Yeah, no, 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.320 and that that's absolutely so, because I was going to say, 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.280 I mean, we are in part because of the number 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.520 of people who have flocked to the prosperity historically provided 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.720 by oil and gas. In in Alberta, we we have 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.159 the benefit of having now the youngest, best educated, and 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:13.400 I think second most diverse population in the country. So 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.240 so that that is a little bit about who we are, 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.920 but we're also I mean, you know, even in the industry, 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.040 it's there. There are groups, like in the oil and 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:25.080 gas that are focused on you know, they understand what 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.080 the international markets are looking to and they are focused 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:32.520 on getting to significantly reducing their emissions. You know, the 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:37.000 oil Sands Pathway groups is zero emissions target, you know, 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.560 I mean there are groups that are very genuinely working 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.520 on it. And I think as well in Alberta. One 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.760 of the things about our provinces, you know, there's a 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.040 bumper sticker here that's very common among and it's been 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.760 around for generations. I'm you know, um fifty eight, and 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.359 I think this this bumper sticker has been around since 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.679 I was in high school. In one way, or another, 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.840 and it's like, please God give me another boom, and 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.119 I promised not to piscital way they had that. They 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.440 had that in Silicon Valley after the tech bubble, they 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.760 had their own creatures like please, Please, God give us 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.240 one more bubble or something like that exactly. So, so 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.119 we're on a we're on boom number nine or something 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.160 right now here. Maybe not quite that much, but we 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.439 we've had some pretty profound bus which created a lot 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.240 of of of real suffering for a bird of families. 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.280 You know, since since we sort of first took off 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.080 in the in the I would argue probably the late 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.000 sixties is where it really sort of took over our 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.920 economy in a huge way. And over that time, more 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.880 and more people are taking very seriously the need to 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.160 diversify our economy, both within the wil and gas sector 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.680 for sure, but within the energy sector as a whole. 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:45.879 And that's why I was talking so much about renewable 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.360 and different forms of renewable and low emissions energy as 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.880 well as outside of energy altogether. And so al Burton's 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.280 are interested in the government that is prepared to talk 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:00.920 about diversification, that understands that Albird as a whole. Even 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:02.879 though we have a lot of capital in this province, 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.080 we are relatively small player in an international market. And 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.560 if we are going to establish a foothold in a 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.520 strong foothold hold in other industries, we're gonna have to 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:14.919 work together strategically. And that's the kind of thing and 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.000 the kind of thinking you get from you know, governments 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:22.199 that that believe in the value of government while at 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.679 the same time believing in the value of job creation, 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:30.520 inflation protection, strong public services like health care, which is 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:33.760 very important to people in this province, very very important, 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:38.080 like public education, like access to a good, strong post 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.280 secondary system. These are all values that we also have 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.959 come to care about and and to expect delivery on 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.040 from government in this province. And so it's those kinds 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.159 of things that we've been six we've been able to 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.840 connect with folks about when when we're talking to them 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:57.879 about what they want to see from the provincial government. 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.439 What should be done on inflation? And I've seen you 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.919 tweet about this and you know, talking about food inflation 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.720 in Alberta and so forth, what should be done, but 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.399 what should be done about that? Well, you know, listen, 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.320 I mean, I appreciate you you're speaking to a broader group, 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.080 and we do all understand that that that that inflation is. 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.399 You know, it's a it's a very uh complicated problem 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.720 to solve. But here's the thing within the world of 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.679 things that Alberta's can the Alberta government can do without 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:30.600 you know, contributing to the problem. And I think there's 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:33.879 a lot is you need to have a government that 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:37.520 is going to start by not making the problem worse. 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.520 So in in this province, since the last election, we 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.359 have seen a cap on utilities removed, We've seen a 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.479 cap on car insurance removed, We've seen a cap on 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.400 tuition removed. We've seen school fees go up. We've seen 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:55.600 personal income taxes go up, we've seen property taxes go up. 0:22:55.880 --> 0:23:00.560 We've seen a tremendous reach into the pockets of regular families. 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.240 And so those kinds of things are all things that 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:05.920 can be reversed. We can we can keep money in 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:10.520 folks pockets and we can do that without contributing to 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:15.199 the overall inflationary challenges that we are experiencing. So, you know, 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.880 there's just been a lot of extra costs piled onto 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:24.040 our Burton's even before we entered into the last you know, 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:28.640 a few months and years so of massive inflationary pressures. 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.199 You know, I just speaking of Twitter looking through your 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:33.480 feet right now. Right before you came on the show, 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.560 you pointed out record electricity rates on the way and 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:38.679 you say, the u CP government has done nothing. What 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:41.359 would you do had you been empowered to address the 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.040 surge and electricity prices? Well, to be clear, when we 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:49.320 were in power, we did actually redesign the electricity process, 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:50.880 and we were in the process of doing it. We 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:56.600