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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a

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Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to

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Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love

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Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me for session two ninety nine of the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into our conversation

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Speaker 1: after word from our sponsors. We've had dozens of therapists

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Speaker 1: on the podcast sharing their perspectives on various topics, from

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Speaker 1: friendships to meditation, and even horror movies. But have you

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Speaker 1: ever wondered what it takes to become a licensed therapist? Well,

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Speaker 1: the road isn't quite paved in goal, more like several

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Speaker 1: years of school and thousands of hours of supervised practice.

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Speaker 1: But don't fret, we'll break it all down. This episode

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Speaker 1: is for our community members who are therapists, sisters looking

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Speaker 1: to answer the field, and everyone interested in learning more

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Speaker 1: about the process. Joining me today our therapist doctor Donna

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Speaker 1: Orio Wo based in the DMV, and Josephine and Paul

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Speaker 1: Greene in Denver, Colorado. In our conversation, we discussed the

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Speaker 1: joys and challenges of becoming a therapist. We got candid

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Speaker 1: about our journeys and talk to all things licensure, private practice, mentorship,

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Speaker 1: and more. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,

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Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag

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Speaker 1: TBG in session or join us over in the sister

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Speaker 1: circle to talk more in depth about the episode. You

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Speaker 1: can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com.

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Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today.

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Speaker 1: I am joined by doctor Orio Wool and Josephine. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for having us. Yes, so excited to be here, indeed

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Speaker 1: so Josephine. I will let you get started since doctor

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Speaker 1: Orio Wool has been here before, but you are a

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Speaker 1: first time guest for us. Can you tell us a

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Speaker 1: little bit about yourself, your educational background, where you practice,

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Speaker 1: and a little bit about your life as a therapist. Yeah, thanks,

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Speaker 1: doctor Joy. My name is Josephine, but most of my

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Speaker 1: clients call me Josie. I am a licensed clinical social worker,

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Speaker 1: a marriage and family therapist candidate, and soon to be

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Speaker 1: addictions counselor. And I also have my master's in education

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Speaker 1: in Curriculum and Instruction, So, in other words, I really

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Speaker 1: like school. My hope is to join the PhD Club

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Speaker 1: and get my PhD in either clinical psychology or in

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Speaker 1: learning sciences and human development. I'm currently an individual, couples

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Speaker 1: and family therapist in Denver, Colorado. I specialize in working

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Speaker 1: with trauma, specifically in couples and families, especially as it

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Speaker 1: relates to identity based trauma and complex PTSD and PTSD.

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Speaker 1: I really love the work that I do because it

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Speaker 1: really allows for me to serve a population that is

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Speaker 1: really really small here in Denver and really be able

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Speaker 1: to hold space for the experiences folks of color experience here,

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Speaker 1: specifically being a minority of a minority, and any times

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Speaker 1: I find that I really like working with trauma, especially

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Speaker 1: identity based trauma with love clients I have because many

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Speaker 1: of them also identify as children of immigrants or immigrants themselves,

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Speaker 1: so for me, it's a therapist. I am the proud

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Speaker 1: child of two getting immigrants who immigrated here in the eighties,

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Speaker 1: and they very much so set the path for me

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Speaker 1: to be able to do the work that I am

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Speaker 1: doing today. So I work with a lot of immigrants

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Speaker 1: as well, a lot of children of immigrants, along with

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks of color and folks in the

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Speaker 1: LGBTQI plus community. So I really enjoy my work. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing more about then in

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Speaker 1: doctor oriole refamiliarize yourself with the community for those who

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Speaker 1: may not have heard you on one of the multiple

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Speaker 1: times you've been here with us. Hey, y'all, I'm doctor

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Speaker 1: Donna Oriolo. I'm a sex and relationship therapist in the Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC metro area helping black women so free, fabulous, and

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Speaker 1: ft because you know, I'm a respective space. I specialize

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Speaker 1: in how colorism and texturism impact mental and sexual health

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Speaker 1: and really just helping the people get back in touch

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Speaker 1: with that pleasure and really resenter it in their lives.

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Speaker 1: Right now, that's not what we'll be doing, so just

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Speaker 1: trying to help people to get back to center and

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Speaker 1: where they actually want to be instead of being where

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Speaker 1: they are. I love that and I can alreadys tell

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Speaker 1: this is going to be such a great conversation. So

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Speaker 1: one of the things I love about kind of being

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Speaker 1: in private practice and like just the multiple different ways

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Speaker 1: we can show up in our spaces, right, So we

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Speaker 1: each practice very very differently, serve different kinds of clients,

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Speaker 1: have a variety of educational backgrounds, and I think as

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Speaker 1: a part of this conversation, we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about things that you wish you knew about being a therapist,

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Speaker 1: and like letting the new generations of sisters and people

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Speaker 1: who are considering becoming therapists are already on the path,

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Speaker 1: sharing some of the wisdom and excitement that we've had

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Speaker 1: as a part of our careers to fully make it

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Speaker 1: a little easier for them as well. So we put

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Speaker 1: out a call on our social media channels to ask

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Speaker 1: people what they wish they had known about being a

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Speaker 1: therapist before they became one, and what kinds of things

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Speaker 1: they would like to know until we got a wealth

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Speaker 1: of information. So I want to share some of those

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Speaker 1: things with you all today and have you kind of

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Speaker 1: expound on those conversations that were started on social So

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Speaker 1: the first area that came up was around mentorship, which

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Speaker 1: I think is huge, I think especially as black women

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Speaker 1: in the field. Right. So, even though because I operate

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Speaker 1: in a lot of like black women therapist spaces, I

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Speaker 1: feel like my world is full of black women therapists,

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Speaker 1: but in the real world, we still make up a

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Speaker 1: very small percentage of people, right, And so I think

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Speaker 1: mentorship really is important. So Breezy b forty five wrote,

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Speaker 1: licensing is hard. Get a mentor who can walk you

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Speaker 1: through the process and make sure you're always taking care

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Speaker 1: of yourself. You can't pour from an empty cup. So

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from you. Maybe you can get

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Speaker 1: us started, Josephine and talking about how mentorship has played

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Speaker 1: a role in your life in becoming a therapist, and

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Speaker 1: what kinds of advice you would offer to new therapists

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Speaker 1: are soon to be therapists in terms of finding mentors. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do not think I would be here without my mentors.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that I would have even an ounce

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Speaker 1: of the confidence that I have without the mentors that

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Speaker 1: I've had. The therapists who've been my mentors, especially the

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Speaker 1: black female therapists I've had, have really taught me that

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Speaker 1: it is not only my knowledge that I've gained in

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Speaker 1: school that I'm bringing into the therapy room, but it's

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Speaker 1: also my lived experience that is so valuable to my clients.

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Speaker 1: And so when I meet with my mentors, who some

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Speaker 1: are in Colorado, some are other parts of the country,

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly reminded that I'm not in this journey alone

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Speaker 1: and I am not in a bought where I have

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Speaker 1: to figure everything out on my own. I think one

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Speaker 1: thing I wish I knew back in grad school when

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Speaker 1: I started in twenty eighteen was that I don't have

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Speaker 1: to figure everything out by myself. And I think I

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Speaker 1: was in a real complex because I was doing fun facts.

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Speaker 1: I did my masters in social work and my master's

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Speaker 1: in education at the same time in three years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who it was tough, and I really thought that I

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Speaker 1: was just going to have to be fighting systems by

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Speaker 1: myself because every quarter I would have to go and say,

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Speaker 1: these are the classes that I'm taking. It's purposeful. I'm

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Speaker 1: getting both these degrees for a reason. And I think

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Speaker 1: when I got mentors, they let me know that they

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Speaker 1: were in my corner and I could run things by them.

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Speaker 1: I could really gain a lot of knowledge and prevent

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Speaker 1: a lot of mistakes that maybe they made, and I

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Speaker 1: could get farther quicker because of the knowledge that they

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Speaker 1: were sharing with me. So how did you meet your mentors, Josephine, Like,

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Speaker 1: where did they come from? Where they professors in your university?

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Speaker 1: Or how did you meet them? Gosh, myriad one Sharie,

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Speaker 1: who is near and near to my heart. She actually

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Speaker 1: reached out to me on psychology today because she's in

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Speaker 1: Colorado Springs, Colorado, which is like Fay South, and she

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Speaker 1: was completely full and she was looking for other black

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Speaker 1: female therapists to refer to. And I kind of mustered

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Speaker 1: up the courage of being like, Hey, I see you're

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Speaker 1: doing what I want to do, and you're doing it

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Speaker 1: really well. Would you mentor me? And I couldn't barely

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Speaker 1: get the words out, and She's like, Josephine, if you

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Speaker 1: just want to be in a mentor like sure, and

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Speaker 1: my whole heart was like, oh my gosh, she's willing

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Speaker 1: to make the time for me, so that time at her.

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Speaker 1: I also did a Postmaster's certificate in marriage of family therapy,

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Speaker 1: and so my other mentors I've met mostly through that

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Speaker 1: actually want ended up becoming my elcis W supervisor and

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Speaker 1: she's also a black woman too. There have been some faculty,

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Speaker 1: especially in terms of research, that have been mentors, but

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Speaker 1: they've usually come from different pockets. And I think there

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Speaker 1: was a willingness to take me in and make sure

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Speaker 1: that I was okay, that I was surprised by, and

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Speaker 1: I think I would let other therapists are soon to

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Speaker 1: be therapists know like this is a field where we're

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Speaker 1: willing to help one another out. Like I'm getting myself

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Speaker 1: ready to become a supervisor, like an elcis W supervisor,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, yeah, I want to be able

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Speaker 1: to do and pay it for the way it was

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Speaker 1: for me. I love that. So the idea of shooting

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Speaker 1: your shot right like you did with this other person

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Speaker 1: in Colorado seems really important. What about you, doctor Orio

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Speaker 1: Will mentorship has been super important in my life, And

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Speaker 1: I would say to steal the title of this book

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Speaker 1: that comes out June twenty twenty three, Sisterhood Heels. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So when I think about the mentors that I have,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about doctor James, doctor Jetta, doctor Melk Desiree,

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Speaker 1: doctor Manda Nicholson, doctor lex Weena Collins, you, doctor Joy.

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Speaker 1: I feel like there has been this space of there's

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Speaker 1: a willingness support into as well as be poured into.

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Speaker 1: So it feels most mutual. And I would say that

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Speaker 1: mentorship is part of what got me to this point

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Speaker 1: in the first place, not being scared to reach out

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Speaker 1: and take the no because sometimes you gotta go through

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Speaker 1: that sea of nose to get to that one. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I have found that there have not been a

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Speaker 1: lot of nose. Sometimes they're not yet. Sometimes you have

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Speaker 1: to pay for the mentorship that you're seeking, a willingness

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Speaker 1: on my end to do that part right to figure

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Speaker 1: out that part, or maybe we could do like a

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Speaker 1: mutual sort of mentorship thing, because I do believe that

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Speaker 1: we all have something to offer. It's just a matter

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Speaker 1: of how we use that information and how we come

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Speaker 1: back around with it. And yes, there are people who

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Speaker 1: are more seasoned in the field who are more than

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Speaker 1: willing to help you out. But sometimes they also have

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Speaker 1: some different limitations than the ones that we have because

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Speaker 1: we may be different generationally. But I have found mentors

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Speaker 1: on the social work side of the degree. I also

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Speaker 1: have a degree in education and my PhD is in

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Speaker 1: human sexuality, so I found people in all three of

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Speaker 1: those realms who have been more than willing to offer

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Speaker 1: some level of mentorship. I would say, though, that on occasion,

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Speaker 1: to whoever might be listening, you might need to go

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Speaker 1: ahead and put some money on it, because sometimes what

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Speaker 1: you think of as mentorship is not mentorship. You keep

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Speaker 1: doing that pick your brain thing. I'm looking like, picking

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Speaker 1: these brains ain't free, and you're gonna pick me all

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Speaker 1: the way out. So a two minute question with a

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Speaker 1: two minute answer is a pick a brain thing, but

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Speaker 1: something that requires more longevity, more in depth knowledge, and

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Speaker 1: it's trying to get you something else. Sometimes people move

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Speaker 1: over away from mentorship and they start moving into coaching,

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Speaker 1: and they don't want to acknowledge that what they're asking

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Speaker 1: for is coaching, that they're trying to get on the

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Speaker 1: free tip. And I'm like, for me, even with my friends,

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Speaker 1: I ask how I can pay them because I know

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Speaker 1: that their time is valuable and they probably would have

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Speaker 1: been doing something else if I wasn't asking the question

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Speaker 1: that I was asking. Very very good points there. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you sharing that and thinking about you know, there

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Speaker 1: are so many different consultation opportunities, so many people offering

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Speaker 1: coaching classes and different kinds of things. So of course

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Speaker 1: you want to do your research to make sure people

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Speaker 1: are coaching you and they actually have lived the thing

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Speaker 1: that they are trying to teach you to do. Right,

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Speaker 1: But there are lots of different opportunities for us to

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Speaker 1: get like our questions answered, whether it be through a

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Speaker 1: mentoring thing or a paid kind of coaching, our consultation option.

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Speaker 1: So I know that we all know the grueling process

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Speaker 1: that is often that of licensure. So listen, Joe, of

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Speaker 1: being your eyes rolling all the way back in your head.

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Speaker 1: It's just so many steps. And so this is the

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Speaker 1: thing that it feels like had the most energy when

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Speaker 1: we talked about it on social just because I feel

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Speaker 1: like a lot of us did not know what we

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Speaker 1: were in for in terms of like you think you

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Speaker 1: go to school and it's like, okay, well I'm good,

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Speaker 1: but no, there are all these like post degree licensure,

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Speaker 1: supervision hours, and like y'all have already talked about, sometimes

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Speaker 1: we have to find people to pay to do those.

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Speaker 1: So let me just read you a couple of the comments.

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Speaker 1: So Crystal George RD wrote, transitioning from a trainee to

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Speaker 1: an associate is a mental hurdle. One minute, you're an amateur,

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Speaker 1: and then when you get a job and you're expected

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Speaker 1: to be the expert. It takes a lot of grounding

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Speaker 1: and self acceptance to know that you're still an amateur

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Speaker 1: that will always be growing and learning through the field.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of imposter syndrome that comes to as

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Speaker 1: you deal with more difficult cases, but eventually, as you

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Speaker 1: become more competent, it passes. Sarah Phoebe wrote the required

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Speaker 1: three thousand hours are a pain off, and then the

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Speaker 1: State of Mind Journal wrote I wasn't prepared for all

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Speaker 1: of the stigma. I also wish someone would have told

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Speaker 1: me that most of the costs came out of your pocket.

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Speaker 1: Beyond just the degrees. Every licensee in North Carolina wants

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Speaker 1: me to pay their rate by the hour for my

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Speaker 1: supervised hours. They only allow a small group of students

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Speaker 1: in to graduate school where they're supervised hours or a

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Speaker 1: part of their degree. I should have gotten a bachelor's

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Speaker 1: in social work so that I could still be making

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Speaker 1: an income while I'll wait, but lessons learned. So talk

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Speaker 1: to me a little bit about your licensure process, Josephine,

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Speaker 1: and it sounds like you're still having a bit of

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Speaker 1: a licensure process as you work to become a supervisor.

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Speaker 1: I mean some of the things or words of wisdom

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Speaker 1: that you would offer to people who are kind of

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Speaker 1: in this journey. Now you are so right, yes my

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Speaker 1: eyes definitely with all the way to the back of

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Speaker 1: my head what you said licensure, Because I finished my

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Speaker 1: licensed Clinical Social Work hours three thousand, three hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty of them. Oh, and that I'm doing the hours

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Speaker 1: for the MFT, which is another two thousand, and then

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Speaker 1: I'm doing the hours for the license Addictions Counselor, which

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Speaker 1: is another two thousand. So I have found that when

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Speaker 1: it comes to licensure, it is a journey that I

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Speaker 1: think it makes me a stronger therapist, like gives me

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Speaker 1: real thick skin in terms of being able to handle

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Speaker 1: the oppressive systems that we operate within. And the silver

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Speaker 1: lining of it is it's really open the opportunity for

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Speaker 1: me to meet other professionals that I don't think I

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Speaker 1: would have otherwise been able to work with. My experience

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Speaker 1: in becoming a licensed clinical social worker was unique in

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Speaker 1: the fact that I was working in many different places

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Speaker 1: at the same time, so I was trying to collect

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Speaker 1: all of these hours, which meant that I had the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to learn from so many different professionals. I implore

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Speaker 1: folks working towards licenshire to not amount their worth as

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Speaker 1: a therapist to the license. There's a huge and at

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Speaker 1: least in my experience, I thought I was less of

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Speaker 1: a therapist because I didn't have the lcs WU yet.

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Speaker 1: But that's just simply not true. You're getting these hours

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Speaker 1: so that you're able to get more experience. But there's

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Speaker 1: a reason why you got into graduate school, let's start there.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason why you got whatever employment that you got,

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Speaker 1: or if you're in private practice, there's a reason why

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Speaker 1: you're doing that. So there's so much that you can

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Speaker 1: offer and that you can give while you're on your

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Speaker 1: way there and when you get there. I threw myself

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Speaker 1: a whole party when I got all of my hours,

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Speaker 1: because it is a huge accomplishment doing it once, doing

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Speaker 1: it twice, doing three times for me, and it's so

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Speaker 1: crucial to know the steps and know exactly what the

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Speaker 1: licensing agencies are looking for and being aware of what

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Speaker 1: changes happen. Because in Colorado, the licensing requirements for social

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Speaker 1: work have changed about three times over since I started

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Speaker 1: with trying to get my license in twenty twenty and

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Speaker 1: now working to be a supervisor. Luckily there aren't a

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Speaker 1: ton of requirements for that, but those things constantly keep changing.

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Speaker 1: So I always impoor folks to really keep your eyes open,

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Speaker 1: subscribe to whatever newsletter your licensing agency has so that

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Speaker 1: whenever there's an update, you're always up to date on it.

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Speaker 1: So those are a couple of things I find. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for that, and I think it is important to

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Speaker 1: talk about. So as therapists, we are licensed in individual states.

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Speaker 1: So as of yet, though there is some movement to

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Speaker 1: talk about like okay, can we have national licenses, like

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Speaker 1: is there really a need to have this, But as

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Speaker 1: of right now, we are licensed in each individual state.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to see clients in Georgia, where

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Speaker 1: I am, then you had to have a license from

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Speaker 1: the Border Social Work, Border Psychology Board of Rage and

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Speaker 1: Family Therapy to be able to see clients. And if

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Speaker 1: you want to do that then in North Carolina you

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Speaker 1: have to have a different license, right, and the states

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Speaker 1: don't all have the same requirements, so some states have

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Speaker 1: like this verbal thing that you have to go and

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Speaker 1: do Most states have like a test that you have

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Speaker 1: to take, but there are lots of different requirements. So

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Speaker 1: that's a great point, Josephinus, to kind of make sure

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Speaker 1: that you know the requirements, especially if you're somebody who's

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Speaker 1: going to be like applying in different states at the

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Speaker 1: same time. You want to make sure you don't miss

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Speaker 1: something because one state requires fifteen hundred dollars versus two thousand.

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Speaker 1: So I think that is important to kind of point

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Speaker 1: out what about you, Doctor Rio will talk to us

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Speaker 1: a little bit about your process. This is such a

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Speaker 1: long time ago because right so I walked across the

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Speaker 1: stage with a license because I took my test before

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Speaker 1: I graduated, because you're allowed to do it so many

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Speaker 1: months ahead of graduation. Stop on ahead, and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I as well, I had to take it the one.

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Speaker 1: If I failed, then I got a little grace Scory

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Speaker 1: could do it again. But I would say, that's that

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Speaker 1: number one strategic thinking. It's my strength, and that was

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Speaker 1: part of my strategy. If I can walk across the

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Speaker 1: stage with my license, then that's one lest thing for

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Speaker 1: me to have to worry about when I got my

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Speaker 1: degree in hand, because I will walk across the stage

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Speaker 1: knowing that I'm licensed, And when it came time to

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Speaker 1: do the clinical licensure, the way I was studying, I

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Speaker 1: was just like, we study a little bit at a time.

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Speaker 1: We don't cram and I took my time. I read books,

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Speaker 1: but I probably did things in a way that some

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Speaker 1: people don't. I took a practice test first before I

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Speaker 1: began studying. I'm like, there's no point in me studying

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Speaker 1: for things that I already know, so let me let

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Speaker 1: the test tell me what I already know. Then I

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Speaker 1: could study to my weaknesses and not study to my strengths.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was still gonna get those strengths anyway,

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Speaker 1: but that was part of my strategy. You're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to do what you do for you, and same thing

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Speaker 1: when I was doing a sex certification, just making sure

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Speaker 1: that you understand exactly what the requirements are, just like

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Speaker 1: Josephine said, like they'll be fed around. You're gonna find

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Speaker 1: yourself in a world a hurt, not knowing what it

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Speaker 1: is that you're doing it for where you're doing it,

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Speaker 1: and knowing that certain licenses do not just automatically transfer.

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Speaker 1: Because I think that a lot of people thought that

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Speaker 1: you could just apply and be given reciprocity. New York.

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Speaker 1: Don't play those games. California. Don't play those games. In California.

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Speaker 1: You gotta take a law class. Stop playing. In New

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Speaker 1: York they require very specific classes as well that a

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Speaker 1: lot of states do not require. So you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to get that first. And if you want to transfer

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Speaker 1: that license, it's ten years. You have to do ten

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Speaker 1: years already as a clinical social worker, because I'm a

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Speaker 1: social worker, in order for that drone to even go

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Speaker 1: over there. So I think that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are not looking when they're doing this thing, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: we're in such a rush to get the thing that

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Speaker 1: we're not sitting down to look at. Okay, whether the requirements,

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Speaker 1: what do I need to do, what is the best

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Speaker 1: order for me to do this end? As opposed to

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Speaker 1: let me just start and hope I don't have to

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Speaker 1: double back. I find that that is a beautiful, delicious,

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Speaker 1: tremendous waste of time and taking the time to sit

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Speaker 1: down and consider what you want where you want it,

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Speaker 1: and also bringing in the why, because I don't think

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Speaker 1: that all of us are fully entrenched in our why.

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Speaker 1: I know some therapists that I look at them, I'm like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: you better than me. They got ten ten licenses in

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Speaker 1: ten different states, and for the life of me, I

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Speaker 1: cannot figure out why, Like, what was the purpose behind

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Speaker 1: ten licenses in ten states? And if you don't know

401
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Speaker 1: your why, then maybe pause, figure out the why, make

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Speaker 1: sure it's in alignment. Was what it is that you're

403
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: saying that you want, and then move forward, because I'll

404
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Speaker 1: say this, I did consider licensing in New York, in

405
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 1: California and Georgia, and then I remember that baby girl

406
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: have been full since twenty eighteen. I've been fos in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. I'm not hurting for clients. Why would I

408
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Speaker 1: get that license in these other states? When I can't

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Speaker 1: see nobody, I'm like, could I hire somebody else? Yes?

410
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Speaker 1: Or just throwing this out there right, or I can

411
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Speaker 1: focus on where I am because I love my sisters

412
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Speaker 1: here in the DMV and we still need stuff. I

413
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Speaker 1: can let people who are in New York handle New

414
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Speaker 1: York and I can handle the DMV. So just throwing

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Speaker 1: that out there as well, because I see everybody going

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Speaker 1: for all fifty states and I'm just like, better you

417
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Speaker 1: than me? Because when it comes time to pay the

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00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: piper on those radnos not I So I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: brought that up because I do think again, this is

420
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Speaker 1: something that I don't think I knew before becoming licensed,

421
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Speaker 1: is that you have to pay for your license every year.

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Speaker 1: So it's not that you pay one time and it's

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Speaker 1: like okay, it's good for your lifetime. So here in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: we have to pay in two hundred and fifty dollars

425
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: every year when it is time to renew our license.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about the cost to

427
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 1: let people know and just kind of generally speaking. So

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00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: again I'm in Georgia, So those are the numbers. I

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Speaker 1: know it's too one hundred and fifty dollars to renew

430
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: your psychologist license in Georgia. But your renewal also requires

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Speaker 1: that you have continuing education credits. So in Georgia, again

432
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: there are twelve hours I believe of continuing education unit.

433
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry it's not every year. We renew on

434
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: a two year basis, so every two years you have

435
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: to pay the two fifth thing. So across those two

436
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: years you have to also get twelve hours of continuing

437
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: education credits, which you typically also have to pay for, right,

438
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: So these are courses that you're taking in the community,

439
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: or if you go to a conference and you get CEUs,

440
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: you're paying for the conference or for whatever the meeting is.

441
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: You both talked about the tests that you have to take.

442
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: So the first step of licensure for most boards is

443
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: some kind of license. So for a psychologist it is

444
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: the E triple P. I will not even guess that

445
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: what those letters mean anymore because I have been so

446
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: far removed from that. But there is a test that

447
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: y'all have to take to become licensed social workers, right,

448
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: Like that's the first step managing family therapist professional consens

449
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: Like everybody has a test they have to take to

450
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: pay for the tests. I feel like it was maybe

451
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: twenty five hundred three thousand when I took it, in

452
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: whatever year I took it. But in addition to the tests,

453
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: y'all have also talked about like these prep classes, right,

454
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: So there are these at least you're looking at probably

455
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: three to five thousand dollars for like a prep class.

456
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: So a prep class that gives you like these practice tests,

457
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: practice materials, like all of these different things. What other

458
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: costs am I forgetting that? We typically pay for it

459
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: to maintain our licenses. While I want to speak to

460
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: the folks who want to get licensed in different fields

461
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: and mental health because that's the process that I'm in

462
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: right now. It is not cheap to do. And I

463
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: think a lot of times folks think that when they're

464
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: an lcs W and an LMFT and a LACK, it

465
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: means that things are just going to be rolled in together.

466
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: In some ways that's true, but in other ways that's not.

467
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: At least in Colorado, you're paying to renew the social

468
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: work license, you're paying knew that MT. You're paying to

469
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: renew that lack, all three separate times. All three in

470
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: Colorado need forty hours of continuing education every two years,

471
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: and those roll over. So I think in terms of cost,

472
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: it's important to know how much it is for your

473
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: specific state. And I think a mentor for me was

474
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: really helpful because it allowed for me to know in

475
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: my state what I needed. Another really big thing to

476
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: think about is the specialized trainings that count for CEUs

477
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: but also have like notoriety that might be the right

478
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: word attached to it. So I'm EMDR trained, I'm considering

479
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: MDR certification. I'm also training Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy. If

480
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: you haven't heard about it, it's really awesome. And that

481
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: came with another big price tag. Both of those trainings

482
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: combined was about five K, and I knocked out all

483
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: of my CEUs in each of those because they have

484
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: like forty fifty cus with it. But it's really important

485
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: to know that a lot of times, especially in our

486
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: field now, it's really important to consider that a lot

487
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: of times these specialized trainings is also another cost and

488
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: things that agencies, sometimes even clients are looking for one

489
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: looking for therapists too, So I think that's another cost.

490
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: I like to throw in gas money because you got

491
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: to drive to some of these trainings because all the

492
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: licensing I was especially pre COVID, right, you had to

493
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 1: show up somewhere because they were saying that you need

494
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: a certain amount face to face versus the amount that

495
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: you can get asynchronous or virtual. I'm in a DC area,

496
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: so you better start thinking about costs. The parking because

497
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: the parking lot to be like twenty five and if

498
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: you're going to a conference, sometimes the overnight parking lots

499
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: are sixty day dollars, So did you add that into

500
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: your money when you were at enough the cost of registration,

501
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: because add that up and then keeping in mind that

502
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: some of these conferences, though you pay for the conference registration,

503
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: it does not necessarily include the cease Some of them

504
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: require you to pay for them cease separate. And in

505
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: addition to the financial costs, I would also say there's

506
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: a mental emotional toll that is also taken in going

507
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: through these processes that we're not often thinking about as well,

508
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: Like you won't pay the pipe one way or the

509
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: other right, So, yes, you can pay your money and

510
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: get these things done, but it's still going to cost

511
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: you in time and energy as well. So making sure

512
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: that you're calculating those costs with the real life things

513
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: that are going on in your life at the same time,

514
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: so that you're able to really consider what that looks

515
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: like to move forward. Great points there, I mean, and

516
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,959
Speaker 1: you're talking about like if the conference is in drivable distance,

517
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: because a lot of them will be maybe on the

518
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: East coast, on the West coast, and if you're not

519
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: on one of those coasts and you gotta fly, you

520
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: gotta think about you know where you're gonna stay. And

521
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: then again, paying for the registration and cease because they

522
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: are not always included. The other thing that we didn't

523
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: talk about was professional liability insurance, Right, So you definitely

524
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: want to make sure you protect all of this hard

525
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 1: work that you have done by carrying insurance every year,

526
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: which covers like should something happen with one of your

527
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: clients or you know that your practice that you've built

528
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: if you're in private practice. But even if you're not

529
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: in private practice, you still need to have liability insurance

530
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: for any clinical setting that you're working, and that is

531
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: an additional cost. And I think that this is sometimes

532
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: a difficult point when we talk about like barriers to

533
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: entry in the field. This is I think a part

534
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: that people often miss because look at all the money

535
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: we just talked about, right, and so it feels kind

536
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: of circular, because how am I paying for this if

537
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: I need to get supervised to actually do the work.

538
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: And so can y'all talk a little bit about like

539
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: how do people pay for this kind of stuff if

540
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: you or like still in training, right, Like, so is

541
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: it that a lot of people are working an additional job?

542
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: What kinds of things do you need to do to

543
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: even be able to pay for some of this? I

544
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: had me a second job. I'll say that for a while,

545
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: I had a second job, and that helped me to

546
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: pay for some of the other things that I really

547
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: wanted to do. I was also strategic about which jobs

548
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: I accepted coming out of school. I needed a job

549
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: that was going to include most of the things that

550
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: I wanted, right, So I worked for a government agency

551
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: when I first got out of school, and I didn't

552
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: have to worry about the cost of supervision. It was included.

553
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: I didn't have to worry about those type of things

554
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: because it was already there. And when you want specialties

555
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: supervision now that was something that I used the job

556
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: that I got to pay for, which means I also

557
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: have to make sure I chose a job that was

558
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: gonna pay me well enough to be able to do

559
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 1: that piece of it, because I did end up paying

560
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: for additional supervision from some other folk, and some of

561
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: it was making sure to have a conversation with them,

562
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: teaming with them, and sometimes asking does that thing slide

563
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: Because while you might have a slid and scale for clients,

564
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: do you have a slide and skill for up and

565
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: coming therapists, Because by the time it's all said and done,

566
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: these things add up in the field of sexuality, specifically

567
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: if you're looking to be an a sex certified sex

568
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: therapist or educator, as I am. Sometimes those supervision hours

569
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: cost two hundred and fifty dollars per hour, and you

570
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: need some like twenty five individual hours, not even talking

571
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: about the number of group hours that you may still

572
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: be required to get. So it can be very cost

573
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: prohibitive up front. And I found that talking to people

574
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: being like, yo, can I don't slide a little bit

575
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: like are you able to do that? Like, no disrespect,

576
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: but your girl can't afford that. This is what I

577
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: can do, and this is how I can also give

578
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: back and pay it forward, because that's what some of

579
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: the mentors required. They're like, well, if I'm gonna gift

580
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: to you, how are you going to make sure that

581
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: you paid this forward? So I was all about paying

582
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: it forward anyways. It wasn't a hardship for me in

583
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: that way, but I did have a second job in

584
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: order to help me to pay for some of that stuff,

585
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: as well as being strategic and finding the jobs that

586
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: were also going to help provide some of the hours

587
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: and things that I needed upfront. Thank you so much,

588
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: for that, doctor Oriole. More from our conversation after the break. So,

589
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: I think the other thing that we want to talk

590
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: about is the supervision hours. And so you made me

591
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: think of something, doctor Oriole, that I think is often

592
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: overlooked in looking at job offerings that can cover some

593
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: of it. And so I will say that a hack

594
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: for me, even though I loved it and it was

595
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: what I wanted to go into. But I have found

596
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 1: that if you go into college counseling centers or some

597
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: kind of like counseling situation connected to a university or

598
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: a college, now, the salary is not often the highest,

599
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: like you can probably get more in a private practice

600
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: or whatever. But what I have found is that there

601
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: are supervisors there who like a part of your work

602
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: is comped, like they are able to supervise you. And

603
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: the training experiences I had in college counseling centers also

604
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: paid for my like e. Triple P licensure test prep.

605
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: So the things that they can't offer you in salary,

606
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: they can sometimes make up for with these benefits you

607
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: already talked about, doctor or will in finding some of

608
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: it through the jobs or there are other hacks that

609
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: y'all would offer people for how to find lower cost

610
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: supervision or test prep or things that people may want

611
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: to consider that they might not have. Well for me,

612
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: I learn the hard way with a lot of these things.

613
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of what I have to

614
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: share is what I would do differently. I wanted a

615
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: supervisor who was a black woman, and in Colorado that

616
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: is very hard to find, so I knew that that

617
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: was something that I would have to pay for out

618
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: of pocket. The way that I was able to swing

619
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: a lot of these trainings was I had multiple jobs

620
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: at the same time. I was working for a group

621
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 1: practice in Colorado Springs, which is south. I was working

622
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: for a college counseling center up north toward the state,

623
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: along with doing some stuff right where I am in Denver.

624
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: So I think really knowing how to maximize on communicating

625
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: what it is that you're needing and reaching out and

626
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: using networking is really really huge. I also have found

627
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of folks who may not

628
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: necessarily know the answer themselves, but they know who knows.

629
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: So when I was looking at different job things, I

630
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: took a job that didn't cover supervision and didn't cover

631
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: SEUs and didn't cover all of those things, so paying

632
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: it out of pocket was what I had to do.

633
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: But I found that if I knew the person who

634
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: had also gone through that that they would be able

635
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: to support me regarding my specific environment and community that

636
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 1: I was working. And so I think finding folks yes

637
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: locally is probably really salient and really important as well.

638
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else to aid? Their doctorial just

639
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: agreed for me. This takes it back to the same

640
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: point that I made earlier was just slow down, consider

641
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: what it is that you're doing while you're doing, where

642
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: you're going, all of these things, what you're wanting, so

643
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: that you can strategically plan and so that you don't

644
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: empty all your pockets all at once. I'm really great

645
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: at the strategic thinking. I'm less great at the execution.

646
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: But anyone that knows me knows that the execution game

647
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: we looking mad good on this end. But that's because

648
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: I break everything down into small steps. It is built

649
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: into my schedule. So just taking the time to really

650
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: consider what it is that you're wanting and what is

651
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: also priority, because sometimes one thing can be used to

652
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: pay for the next thing. So I used my license

653
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 1: as a therapist and the job that I got from

654
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: that to help me pay for the clinical. I got

655
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 1: the clinical and I was able to commence a job

656
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: why I should be made into a supervisor, and they

657
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: sent me to the class for supervisors, so that didn't

658
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: come out of my pocket. But when I got that,

659
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: I stayed on with them for a time. But I

660
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: also took on a couple of people who needed supervision

661
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: at a lower rate but something that would add a

662
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: little something back to my pockets, and I parlayed that

663
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: money to start putting a way toward my ASEX certification hours.

664
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes they'd be saying that you use it

665
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: robbing Peter to pay Paul, or like, I settled my

666
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: debt with Paul, and I'm gonna keep on working because

667
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use this money to now get Peter. So

668
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: I didn't mind in that way. And that's also how

669
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: I ended up paying for EMDR. As I calculated how

670
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: much of a cause for me to do the MDR

671
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 1: process because I really wanted to, and how many clients

672
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: did I need to see in private practice for how

673
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: long to pay for that? So we're talking about looking

674
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 1: at the date when do you want it by now?

675
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: How many clients do you need to see in this

676
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: much time in order to make this happen? So I

677
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: chose what I wanted, I backtracked it, I did the math,

678
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: and then I was like, all right, cool, this is

679
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: the date that I have to start seeing this many

680
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: clients at this rate in order to make this thing

681
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: happen while still being able to keep a roof over

682
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: my head and food in my mouth. I love. Then,

683
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: thank you for breaking it down for us like that.

684
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: So something that you both have also touched on is

685
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: the mental health tool. So you talked about it a

686
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: little bit, doctor orwell in terms of the toll of

687
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: like just trying to keep track of all of this stuff.

688
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: But I think the other thing is the mental health

689
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: told of just being a therapist. Right, So again I

690
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: think that's a lot. We don't always know what we're

691
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: getting into when we become therapists, and part of training

692
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: is like teaching you how to undergo these difficult conversations

693
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: with clients and like how to not take it home

694
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: and like all of these different kinds of things. So

695
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 1: some of our social media comments included and so ask

696
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: Bianca Sig wrote how exhausting it can be, and that

697
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: sometimes I just don't want to talk, which I think

698
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: is a very real you hear a lot of therapists

699
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 1: say stuff like that. Kindly Beated also wrote I didn't

700
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: expect to have so much counter transference and to feel

701
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: the pain as I've struggled with compartmentalization. So I think

702
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: it is important to remember, you know, we are actual

703
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: humans who are operating ins therapists. We are not like

704
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: therapeutic robots. And so some of the times stuff that

705
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: our clients say like, we may have personal experienced with right,

706
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: and it really is a process of kind of learning

707
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: how to separate your stuff from your clients stuff so

708
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: that you can be there to support them doctor orwell,

709
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about some of the

710
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: mental health impact and like what kinds of things Future

711
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: therapists need to be aware of how to take care

712
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: of themselves as they also hold space for clients. I

713
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 1: am a person that believes that proper self care comes

714
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: with great self knowledge. If you don't know yourself, it

715
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: is very difficult to take care of yourself because you

716
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: don't know you well enough to know what you need.

717
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes we learn by trial and error, but sometimes you know,

718
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: they say no better but we don't do better. Right,

719
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: we know better, but we don't change up what we're doing.

720
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: So one thing that I learned is that I had

721
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: to cap how many clients I was actually seeing in

722
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: a day and in a week. There was a magic

723
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,959
Speaker 1: number where I felt good about what I was doing

724
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: and not over tax which means that I was not

725
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: emailing or looking at stuff and had a quiet time

726
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: at the time that I needed it. I don't like

727
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: sem onrning clients first thing in the morning. I'm gonna

728
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to talk to nobody at seven and

729
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: eight am, and yet some of these therapists out here

730
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: they'll be doing that. I'm like, that's your ministry, that's

731
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: not my ministry. So for me and for mine, the

732
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: day started at noon until recently, because now I'm like, oh,

733
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: I like a nine am every other Monday, not every

734
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: single Monday. But I use that knowledge of myself to

735
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: create a schedule that felt good for me and so

736
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: that I wasn't drained. And I definitely agree with what

737
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: you said. I'm a person first, So some of that

738
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: has been making sure that I'm actually properly fed and hydrated.

739
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: Some of it is making sure I'm appropriately rested and

740
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: sometimes looking at the chaos. If there is chaos in

741
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: my life, I have to determine am I really in

742
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: the best position to be doing the work that I'm

743
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: doing right now today in this moment. Do I need

744
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: to reschedule people? Do I need to move people? So

745
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: for me, I like seeing clients on Monday, and I'm

746
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: at a point in my practice now where i only

747
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: see Monday clients. I don't do therapy the rest of

748
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: the week. I kept my day at seven once I

749
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: started getting into at eight nine territory, don't feel good

750
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: no more. And after every two to three clients, I

751
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: have an hour break. So yeah, it might take me

752
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: the entire hire a day to do the therapy day,

753
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: but I'm taking regular breaks for my mental and emotional

754
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: well being. I talked to black women, so if something

755
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: touches me a little extra clothes, I modulate what I'm

756
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: going to say next, and I have to ask myself

757
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: is this for you or is it for them? I

758
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: asked that question and that helps me every single time.

759
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: But I would also say that another way to simply

760
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: just modulate, and I'll give it with a baby story.

761
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: Back when I first started private practice. I took any

762
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: client that would have me. So I was seeing children,

763
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: I was seeing adults, I was seeing people of color,

764
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: I saw black people, I saw white people. Right, I

765
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: was seeing everybody. And it wasn't until I niched that

766
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: I stopped feeling so drained. Because the point is I

767
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: didn't like working with kids. The kids were not the problem.

768
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: I didn't like that they came with parents. Didn't like

769
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: working with their parents because it required extra working, extra

770
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 1: energy that was often not paid for, and it felt

771
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: like there was no real return other than to say, hey,

772
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: you keep undoing the work that I do in the

773
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: therapy room. What you kid like? Please stop? So I

774
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: stopped seeing kids because I knew that wasn't my ministry.

775
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: I did not want to spend an abundance of my

776
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: day seeing white folk and trying to get them to

777
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: understand that you saying the N word to me might

778
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: lead to us having to fight, right because in that moment,

779
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 1: I am a therapist. I'm not your therapist. We could

780
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: get down, but to get down call me an in

781
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: one more time. So I had to realize that I

782
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: needed to niche in. And maybe this is unpopular opinion

783
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: in some way. But I believe that my clients also

784
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: pour into me as I pour into them. I believe

785
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: that there is reciprocity there, and that the reciprocity does

786
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: not come with the payment, but it comes with how

787
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: they show up and see you as a person and

788
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: you are seeing them as a person. The therapeutic relationship

789
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 1: should be a reciprocal relationship. It should still be mostly

790
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: heavy sided on one end, but it shouldn't feel like

791
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm a dumping ground either. I do not do dumping

792
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: ground therapy. I am not your place to lay all

793
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: your stuff and leave. I'm a processing center as then

794
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: you put it down. We're gonna process it, but I'm

795
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: gonna give it back. That stuff is not mine and

796
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: having to make sure that I remember that it is

797
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 1: not mine. But niching down helped me to also feel

798
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: a lot less drained in doing this work. Thank you

799
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: for that. What about you, Josephine. This is a lesson

800
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: that I am learning as I'm going along, because I

801
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: think that with getting all of these hours done, I

802
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: wanted to get them done as quickly as possible. I

803
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: do not want to be working on these hours for

804
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 1: years and years and years on end. So I burned

805
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: myself out getting those hours done. Colorado is one of

806
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: the few states where you can open a private practice

807
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: before your fully licensed, as long as you have a supervisor.

808
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: So I was working in my private practice, working in

809
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of different environments, seeing anyone, mostly anyone who

810
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: would come in the door, because I wanted to get

811
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: those hours done. I highly recommend that that not be

812
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: the process, because once I got to the LCSWU, I

813
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: was barely able to enjoy it because I was so

814
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: tired from what I had put myself through in those

815
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: last two years. So I think in terms of not

816
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: burning out or being able to make sure, I definitely

817
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: agree with doctor Donna that niching is so important, and

818
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: also knowing that just because someone else's client looks one

819
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: way does not mean that it has to look that

820
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: way for you. Especially in the environment that I am in.

821
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: I see some white clients, but they have to be

822
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: a really good fit for me, like they have to

823
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: really be feeding into the work that I do. And

824
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: I say straight up to my clients, if you say

825
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: anything racist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islam, if there's a phobic or

826
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: an ism at the end, you are not going to

827
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: work out because I have to protect my energy and

828
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: I have to protect my well being as a therapist

829
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: in order to be able to serve everyone else that's

830
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: on my caseload along with you. So I think for

831
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: black women who are coming into being therapists, there is

832
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: nothing wrong if you just want to see black women. Frankly,

833
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: if I could go back and do it all over again,

834
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: that's probably the way I would go back and do it.

835
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: I also think that there's a lot of worth in

836
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: being able to learn how to say no, not only

837
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: say no in terms of clients, being able to say no.

838
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: If you're working in an agency, or if you're in

839
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: a training and there's something that is actually harmful, or

840
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: another professional says something that actually is more harmful than

841
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: help full, being able to say that is not okay

842
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: with me. So I think that's how I protect a

843
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: lot of my energy now is by learning how to

844
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: say no and being able to hold that space and

845
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: really prioritize what's important to me. I find that teaching

846
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: brings me a lot of joy. Before being a therapist,

847
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: that was a teacher. So coming back in and teaching

848
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: at the graduate level, I find that brings me a

849
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: lot of peace and a lot of joy. So I'm

850
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: going to put more time into that than to put

851
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: my time into trying to fill up my caseload. So

852
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: I would say, especially if folks are working toward hours,

853
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: like the hours can't come before the mental health and

854
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: the well being. If it takes you two and a

855
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: half years rather than it taking two years, it takes

856
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: you four years rather than two years, that's fine because

857
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: the hope is that you're able to get to the

858
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: finish line in one piece and able to continue doing

859
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: the work after you've finish the hours. Because if you

860
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: get to that point where you're so burned out that

861
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: you can't even continue after the out, then what was

862
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: then what was the point of doing the thing? So

863
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: I find that a lot of times I have to

864
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: remind myself that it's not okay for me to burn

865
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: myself out and I'm worth taking care of to the

866
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: point now where I stick almost pretty strictly to fifty

867
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: five minute sessions, so that I have five minutes to

868
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: go to the restroom, grab a bite to eat, stand

869
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: outside for a few seconds before I come back in.

870
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: I know as a person, I have to replenish myself.

871
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: I can do eight in a row. That's not a

872
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: big problem for me. But I need that forty minutes

873
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: that is comprised into those five minutes to be able

874
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: to decompress, breathe before I go into the next one.

875
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: Very important considerations. Thank you for sharing it. More of

876
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: my conversation after the break. So you both have thriving

877
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: private practices, and so this, I know is the thing

878
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: that nobody teaches us in grad school. I am a surprised.

879
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: I feel like more schools are adding in some of

880
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 1: these kind of business like opening up a practice, but

881
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: for a very long time, there has been no instruction

882
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: on what to do after your actually licensed. Like there's

883
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: lots of preparation about how to see clients, but nobody

884
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: teaches you how to actually run a practice. And so

885
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,439
Speaker 1: some of the comments that we got online, so Rayo

886
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: Nicole wrote the business side of having your own practice.

887
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: If you desire to have your own practice, learn about business,

888
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: engage with console groups, get connected with local counseling groups

889
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: and the state board. And then Sharon Mosley at the

890
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,720
Speaker 1: fit Talk Road you need to understand the business side,

891
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: not just therapy, which I think many both of you

892
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: would agree with. So talk to me a little bit

893
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: about how you actually learned how to have a business

894
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: and what suggestions you would offer two sisters who are

895
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: interested in opening a practice. I found that it is

896
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: not only important to learn the knowledge for yourself, but

897
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: also know who are the experts of the things that

898
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: you don't know. So, for example, I have an incredible

899
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: bookkeeper and an incredible attorney who I turned to and

900
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: I say, hey, I don't know how this works, so

901
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: help me figure out how it works. I don't think

902
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: that owning a business is about being the expert of everything.

903
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: I think owning a business is about knowing who to

904
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: ask for help in the things that you are not

905
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: an expert in. I focus on the therapy, I focus

906
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: on the consulting, I focus on the curriculum, writing, and

907
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: all those things that I was trained in. But when

908
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: I'm able to extend and ask for that help, that

909
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: also prevents burnout for me. I think another piece of

910
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,479
Speaker 1: running a private practice is trial and error. Knowing that

911
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: there is a huge part of knowing that things that

912
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: you try in the beginning don't necessarily have to be

913
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: what you stick with in the long haul. Like if

914
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: you want to see twenty clients a week and you

915
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: change your mind, you say you want to say fifteen

916
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: clients a week and the math math's up, then do

917
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: it if you realize, okay, I have capacity to see more.

918
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: Like no one in private practice should feel like just

919
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: because they started doing something one way, they have to

920
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: continue doing it that way. Like the way that I

921
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: run a private practice now being an LCSW is not

922
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: going to be the way I run a private practice

923
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: when I'm in a doctoral program, which I would love

924
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: to talk to you all about mentorship boom. It's a

925
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: thing right in the moment, and the way that I

926
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 1: do it after I have a PhD is going to

927
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: be very different. So knowing that as we grow and

928
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: evolve as humans, our needs are naturally going to change

929
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: and that's okay, And knowing who the experts are. There

930
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: are tons of folks even on Instagram, on Facebook, on

931
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: TikTok who know and share a lot of knowledge of

932
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: things that we can prevent if we look out for

933
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: the resources. And as business owners, it's important to know

934
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: that answers are not going to come to us. We

935
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: have to go and find them. I know you got

936
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,240
Speaker 1: a lot to say there doctor oriol doctor a Jetta Robinson.

937
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: I joined at the time it was called Private Practice Academy,

938
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: and I learned what I needed to learn right there.

939
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 1: It had a built in community field. She was already

940
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: an expert right with like seven or eight figure private practice.

941
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: Who else can to teach you? And the way that

942
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: she teaches, she thinks about what it takes for you

943
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: to actually learn this information and for you to do

944
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: this in a way that is going to be sustainable

945
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: in the long run. Because let's be real, some of

946
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: these private practices out here that splung up in COVID

947
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: are not private practices. There are a therapists who just

948
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: happened to practice privately. Your business is not a business bull,

949
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: It's not a business bull. I'm looking like some people

950
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 1: are running around here, not an LLC to be seen,

951
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: just a name and the money is deposited into the

952
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: private account while they don't have any insurance. And I'm

953
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: just like, all this is gonna take is one client,

954
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: one to suit you and they get to take everything

955
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: out your bank account because you don't have a business account.

956
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm saying those basic business things, These are not things

957
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 1: that grew up just knowing nor is it just things

958
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: that we just got out of our social work or

959
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: mental health counseling programs. They didn't teach us how to

960
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 1: be business owners. They taught us how to do therapy.

961
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:58,240
Speaker 1: And remembering that you still need someone that has expertise

962
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 1: that is different from yours means that you go find

963
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: the people who have business acumen. So don't just be

964
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: asking you know your friend who also don't have an

965
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: LLLC and who is putting money in their bank account

966
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: or telling their clients just cash at me. Look, I

967
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: don't heard and saint some things right. So I found

968
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 1: that being a part of the Private Practice Academy really

969
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 1: helped me to number one, get my foundations right, so

970
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 1: that when I decided I was going from a solo

971
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: practice to a group practice and one no thing. And

972
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: I definitely agree with what just being said. I have

973
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: people who know what they are doing, so my accountant

974
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: knows what she is doing. They focus on private practices actually,

975
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: so I've been able to just be like, all right, cool,

976
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. Next. They're like, well,

977
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: if you want to hire this thing, you're gonna need

978
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: to figure out this thing first. I'm like, ba, bay,

979
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: you ain't say nothing but the work. I'm gonna figure

980
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: that out and I'm gonna talk to an expert so

981
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: that I can do what I need to do. So

982
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: if you're having a business, you can to reinvest into

983
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 1: your business the same way that you invested into the

984
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 1: knowledge base that you have to be a great therapist.

985
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 1: Don't be shocked about that money coming out that account

986
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: when it's time to learn this business stuff. I'm not

987
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: saying you have to go get an NBA, but certainly

988
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: you have to be willing to put up more than

989
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: fifty dollars a month to get the thing that you

990
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: need from these other people who have an expertise too.

991
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: I had found that people be wanting something for nothing.

992
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: They don't want to put time in, and they don't

993
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: want to put money in, but they still want to

994
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 1: be able to reap all the benefits and get where

995
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: they want to go. But I will say that I

996
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: feel like I got my money back from what I

997
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: invested with doctor Jetta and her crew simply because of

998
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: the way that they sort of outlined everything. That's what

999
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: really worked for me. Now, I had tried some other ones.

1000
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna name them because you know, and trying

1001
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: to hurt nobody's feelings. But I did try some other ones,

1002
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: and for me, those were I call that lesson learned

1003
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: money as and I learned me some lessons. I learned

1004
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: that you're not the one for me, that your approach

1005
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: does not work with what I need, and I needed

1006
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: to do a better job of betting according to what

1007
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: I knew about me and not just what I know

1008
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: about this program. And I will say that this is

1009
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: lifelong learning. As your business grows and changes, you have

1010
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 1: to be willing to continue to invest in that way.

1011
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: So right now I'm a part of two masterminds that

1012
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: are focused on business. I'm also in one that is

1013
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: focused on marketing. This is how I am learning so

1014
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 1: that I can continue to pour into my practice in

1015
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: a way that doesn't take things away from me. If

1016
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: you want your business to be a business and not

1017
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: a hobby and be gone by, I mean what they say,

1018
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: we're in a recession. Recession Proof in yourself also requires

1019
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: you to have some business acumen, and that means that

1020
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to put some money up or you're

1021
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: gonna have to shut up such important points. I really

1022
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: want people to take that seriously, because we go to

1023
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: school for so long, we pay so much money for

1024
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 1: all of the licenses, all the supervision, all the stuff,

1025
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: and then if you do not protect yourself and your

1026
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: entry by not setting up your business appropriately, it can

1027
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: all be gone very very quickly. So it's very important

1028
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: to have an LLC or some other entity outside of

1029
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: your name so that your business is protected and it

1030
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: is not connected to yourself. You know, your family and

1031
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: your house is kind of a compromise. Making sure that

1032
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: you have the separate business account, talking with a bookkeeper,

1033
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: talking with an attorney, like, there's so much paperwork that

1034
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: has to go into your practice, right, so all of

1035
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: your forms and all of those things, like, you need

1036
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: to make sure that you have stuff done correctly and

1037
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: you can take the easy route. What you're hearing from us, though,

1038
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: is that it is not advisable because it is easily

1039
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 1: coming in and then it can just as easily be gone.

1040
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: So do make sure that you're taking the steps like

1041
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: Josephine said, even if it takes a little longer to

1042
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: make sure you're doing things correctly so that you're not

1043
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: just building, you know, not a solid business like you

1044
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: want to actually build a business with a great foundation.

1045
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate all the things that y'all have shared.

1046
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: We have talked a lot about money today in terms

1047
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: of like investing in all the different things, but I

1048
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: have found that this is a very difficult thing, especially

1049
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: when we start private practices, like some of these conversations

1050
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 1: around money about like how much to charge, and oh, am,

1051
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: I really worth charging two hundred dollars an hour and

1052
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: that's skilled enough. Can y'all say a little bit about

1053
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: some of the conversations you had to negotiate for yourselves

1054
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: around money in getting to a place where you feel

1055
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: comfortable with your fees and asking for your fees in

1056
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: your practice, I have to be honest about what I

1057
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: know I was already bringing. Being humble is not always

1058
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: being honest. So I want to make sure I say that,

1059
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: because sometimes we'll be trying to humble ourselves right out

1060
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: of what it is that we already know about the

1061
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: skill sets that we bring, as well as understanding which

1062
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: population it is that we're serving. If you understand these things,

1063
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: you will price yourself accordingly. And that is not to

1064
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: say that you know you got to charge five hundred

1065
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: thousand dollars an hour or that means you don't like yourself,

1066
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: because I'm not saying that either, right, I'm saying who

1067
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 1: it is that you're targeting. I call my client avatar.

1068
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: Her name dangil And or Brittany, depending on which day

1069
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: of the week it is, right, And she's dark skin

1070
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,439
Speaker 1: and she's this and she does this type of job,

1071
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: but she brings in this type of money and she

1072
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: has these type of problems. I've done the work on

1073
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: my avatar and I'm like, you know what my avatar

1074
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: can afford me? So for me right now, individual therapy

1075
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: is two hundred and fifty dollars a session. Couples is

1076
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty dollars a session. I also know

1077
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: what I bring, I know the work that I'm doing,

1078
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: and I also know that when people pay, they pay attention, right,

1079
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: And that's something that I learned on the business side.

1080
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: That's not something that you learn on the other side.

1081
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: And I know that some therapists they have rock bottom

1082
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: prices that have problems filling their practice, and they have

1083
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: not considered that the problem might be those rock bottom prices.

1084
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: You're telling everybody in a MoMA's only twenty dollars to

1085
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: do therapy with you, and they don't value twenty dollars.

1086
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: There's also a psychology behind the pricing. If the pricing

1087
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: is too low, people think it's not worth it, and

1088
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: they're going to be looking for like, well, who costs

1089
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: more than you? Because I don't trust that the work

1090
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: that you're doing is good work if it's that love right,

1091
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: So I would say that number one, Yes, consider some

1092
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: psychology behind pricing, but ultimately I did my numbers backwards.

1093
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: How many sessions do I want to have in a week,

1094
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: what feels good for me? How much money do I

1095
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: want to make in a year? How many sessions is that?

1096
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: How much do I need to charge in order to

1097
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: do that? And when you do the math, the math

1098
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: will tell you the cost per session and how many sessions,

1099
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: especially when you're considering how many days off per week

1100
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: or how many weeks off per year you want to take.

1101
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: We close from Christmas the New Year, every year we're

1102
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: off for things like Juneteenth. I calculated all of those things.

1103
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, these are no longer therapy days. Plus

1104
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: I want two week vacation in September to celebrate me

1105
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: and miss the booth than getting married so I added

1106
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: up the week's left. I'm like, oh, let's count two

1107
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: more for possible sickness. So out of fifty two weeks,

1108
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: I subtracted and said, okay, this is how many weeks

1109
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: that I can conceivably work. And then I did the

1110
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: math on okay, and how much do you want to earn? Now?

1111
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: Divide and figure out the numbers until the numbers make

1112
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: some actual sense. If it felt too high, I recalculator.

1113
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: If it felt too low, I recalculated. But I let

1114
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: math and what I know about me and my household

1115
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: expenses also guide me. Yeah, this is a place of

1116
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: real learning for me. Because I felt like starting a

1117
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: private practice pretty soon out of grad school. I felt like, oh, well,

1118
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: I don't have ten years of experience, so I can't

1119
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: charge that amount in all those things, which, yes, I'm

1120
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 1: still battling within myself. However, I had to realize that

1121
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: my clients are not just getting me. They're getting me

1122
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: and everything that I've learned and all the resources that

1123
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: I have and all the network that I have to

1124
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: be able to support them. And as someone who does

1125
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: a lot of couples and family therapy, it usually means

1126
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: I'm giving referrals for individual therapists. I'm giving referrals for

1127
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: key's management resources. I'm giving referrals for all sorts of

1128
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: things that come with me. And I'm learning that even

1129
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: as I go into supervising, I can't discount myself as

1130
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: a supervisor because of worrying, Oh, what if they don't

1131
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: want to pay or what if it's too much. I

1132
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: have to look at what it is that I can

1133
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 1: afford and not only think about what is it that

1134
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to be able to make to survive, but

1135
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: what I'm going to be able to make to actually

1136
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: have a life and thrive and be able to enjoy

1137
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: all the work that I've put in to actually be

1138
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: able to take a vacation. I didn't take a vacation

1139
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: for the first time until last December, and it was

1140
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: my honeymoon, and I had to learn that after that anymoon,

1141
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't go another twenty someone years

1142
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: on a RULD I am without taking another vacation. That

1143
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: that's just not sustainable. Especially coming out of the field newer,

1144
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: I think it can be a harder hurdle to go over. However,

1145
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: we've invested so much in ourselves that we are worth

1146
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: our clients time. We are worth our client's effort. We

1147
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: are worth the emotional, the mental, and the financial investment

1148
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: from our clients. And I think something that is really

1149
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: important to think about is the cost of living where

1150
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: you are, because the cost of living in one place

1151
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: is going to be very different from the cost of

1152
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: living in another, and knowing that cost of living should

1153
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: be a part of what you're thinking about when you're

1154
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: setting your rates. Along with inflation, everything else is getting

1155
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: more expensive. Duff, like you should be getting more expensive too,

1156
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: And I want to add something because I mean, you

1157
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: was just singing it hang it woo. You also cannot

1158
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: serve well if you are hungry. You can't serve well

1159
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: if you're thirsty. And you all went to your clients

1160
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: as well as to yourself to make sure that the

1161
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: money that you are charging makes sense, because if you

1162
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: are gonna be in therapy but then wondering how you're

1163
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: gonna pay your electricity, then whatever pricing you're probably doing

1164
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: is already unsustainable. If you can have a full week

1165
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like I heard some of these people

1166
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: that say forty five class weeks. So if you're seeing

1167
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: forty forty five people a week and you are still

1168
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: wondering how you're gonna pay the light bill. If you're

1169
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: still worrying about those things, who are you serving well

1170
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 1: when you are half distracted in therapy because you're wondering

1171
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: how you supposed to support yourself. Now, I'm not saying

1172
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: go live outside your means, like maybe don't buy the

1173
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: five million dollar home if you don't even make two

1174
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: hundred thousand a year. I mean simple stuff like that, right,

1175
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,479
Speaker 1: But at the same time, make sure that you are

1176
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: thinking sustainably. And part of the sustainability is also you.

1177
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: This is airplane type knowledge, right, like those airplane announcements.

1178
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: You have to put your mask on before you help others.

1179
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 1: How can you serve from your overflow when your cup

1180
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,959
Speaker 1: is empty? You have to work on filing your cup

1181
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: first and then get the overflow that you need to

1182
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,479
Speaker 1: serve your clients from there. And I very quickly also

1183
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: want to add that good mentors are going to remind

1184
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: you to do this. Good mentors are going to challenge

1185
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: you when you're not doing this. Mine have looked be

1186
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: in the face and said you're working how many hours

1187
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: a week and you're making how much an hour? And

1188
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: you're sleeping how many hour? And it would give me

1189
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: the epitome black woman look of absolutely heck not. Even

1190
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: my supervisors and my mentors who are way or not black,

1191
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: also give me a real side eye that I need

1192
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: when I am overworking myself because I'm prone to doing that.

1193
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: So I think surrounding yourself with folks who will hold

1194
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 1: you accountable so the things that you want to do

1195
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: and to taking care of yourself is really important too.

1196
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, such incredible information, y'all. I have so

1197
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: much more I want to talk to y'all about, but

1198
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: unfortunately we just do not have time today. I do

1199
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: want people to know where they can contact you if

1200
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 1: they have additional questions or you don't want to share

1201
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: the excitement that they get from listening to this episode.

1202
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 1: So Josephine, can you tell us where can we find

1203
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: you online? I wish your website as well as any

1204
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: social media handles you'd like to share. Yes, So most

1205
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: of my social media handles are at the dhe as

1206
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 1: an Apple m AS and Mary Peters and Paul as

1207
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: an Apple wu PC. So the ample PC, I'm pile

1208
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: Psychotherapy and Consulting is my private practice. So I'm on Instagram,

1209
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm on Pinterest, I'm on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn, so

1210
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,080
Speaker 1: you can find me on all those places. Also, my

1211
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 1: website is the same ampowpc dot com. Feel free to

1212
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: reach out. Y'all can find me on Instagram and TikTok,

1213
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,439
Speaker 1: especially because I am very active on those spaces. At

1214
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: doctor dr dot Donna oreo o orio o spelled o

1215
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: r i o wo, and you can hit up Donna

1216
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: oreowe dot com and from there it will direct you

1217
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 1: to almost anyway you need to be So I got you,

1218
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 1: but definitely hit me up on Instagram and you can

1219
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: also slide into my dms. But if you say you

1220
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 1: want to pick my brain, I might ignore you. Thank

1221
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 1: you so much both who you absolutely will be making

1222
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: sure to include all of that in the show notes.

1223
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for sharing your time and expertise

1224
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: with us today. I really appreciate it. I'm so glad

1225
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: Doctor orio Oo and Josephine were able to join me

1226
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 1: for this conversation. To learn more about their work, be

1227
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls

1228
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: dot com slash Session two ninety nine and make sure

1229
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: to keep your eyes peeled for part two of this conversation.

1230
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed it, make sure to text two of

1231
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 1: your girls right now and tell them to check out

1232
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,

1233
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot

1234
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: com slash directory. And if you want to continue digging

1235
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: into this topic or just be in community with other sisters,

1236
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.

1237
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for

1238
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy

1239
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida

1240
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: Lucas and Elise Ellis and editing was done by Dennison Bradford.

1241
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.

1242
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

1243
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: real soon. Take it care