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Speaker 1: I'd like to welcome to the stage Francine Lacroix, Editor

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Speaker 1: at large at Bloomberg News, and the right honorable Kiirs Starmer,

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Speaker 1: leader of the Labor Party, to talk about Labour's plans

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Speaker 1: for the tech industry, something I'm sure you'll all be

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Speaker 1: very interested to hear more about with an election looming.

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Speaker 1: Please welcome them to the stage. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: So Cura, Thank you so much for joining us. Now,

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Speaker 2: there are first of all we need to address because

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Speaker 2: there are media reports of a major incident in Nottingham.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people here will probably be seeing the news filtering

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Speaker 3: through and I don't think we can start the session

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Speaker 3: without acknowledging that there has been a serious incident in

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Speaker 3: Nottingham this morning. Information is still coming through, but it's

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Speaker 3: just been reported that three people have lost their lives.

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Speaker 3: So I'm sure I speak for everybody in this room

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Speaker 3: in saying that we'd like to just send our thought

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Speaker 3: though to all those affected at the emergency services who

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Speaker 3: are responding to this as we speak.

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Speaker 4: So I think we.

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Speaker 3: Will get to tech obviously in just a moment. But

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Speaker 3: I just think when there's something that serious happening in Nottingham,

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Speaker 3: we just need to acknowledge it as I say, send

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Speaker 3: our thoughts to those that are affected, and thank those

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Speaker 3: that are responding to it.

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Speaker 4: On behalf of all of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and secure before we get onto tech actually and AI.

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Speaker 2: It's been quite a weekend for UK politics.

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Speaker 3: It has been quite a weekend for everybody following. So

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Speaker 3: on Friday night I was doing a speech for Margaret Beckett,

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Speaker 3: who's one of our longest standing MPs. She's been an

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Speaker 3: MP for forty nine years and I was in Derby

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Speaker 3: with about five hundred and fifty people thanking her for

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Speaker 3: a service. And as I sat down, I've got a

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Speaker 3: note put in front of me that said Boris Johnson

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Speaker 3: has resigned with immediate effect. And then on Sunday I

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Speaker 3: went for lunch as my wife's birthday, went for lunch

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Speaker 3: with a number of friends and just as we were

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Speaker 3: sitting down, I saw my phone ping up that Nichola

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Speaker 3: Sturr have been arrested. So it's quite a lot to

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Speaker 3: pack in to one weekend, and obviously it comes on

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Speaker 3: the back of very turbulent twelve months or so. This

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Speaker 3: time last year Boris Johnson was Prime Minister. We've burnt

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Speaker 3: through three prime ministers, We've had four chancellors of four

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Speaker 3: budgets in the last twelve months, and you know, politically

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Speaker 3: that makes for a lot of material. It is certainly

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Speaker 3: evidence of chaos and a party. Political parties usually fight

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Speaker 3: like this when they're out of office. It's very unusual

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Speaker 3: to have it when they're in office. And now we've

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Speaker 3: got three by elections caused by just political fallout. Often

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Speaker 3: you have by elections because someone sadly dies or is

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Speaker 3: very ill, or there's some finding against them. To have

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Speaker 3: three by elections, which are essentially political tantrums, is really unprecedented,

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Speaker 3: and you know, politically, obviously from our point of view,

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Speaker 3: you know, we look at it and see that.

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Speaker 4: But there is a price to be paid.

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Speaker 3: And everywhere you go across the country, most people are

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Speaker 3: really worried about the cost of living. They're worried about

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Speaker 3: how they're going to pay their bills, and for them

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Speaker 3: to see a government squabbling with itself instead of focusing

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Speaker 3: on what they need addressed, I think is a very

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Speaker 3: serious situation for this government to have got itself into.

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Speaker 3: And there's a deeper price because there's a reputational hit

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Speaker 3: to the UK and I think there's an economic hit

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Speaker 3: as well because many investors, and this is very relevant

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Speaker 3: to what we're discussing this morning, many investors say to me,

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Speaker 3: we're not investing in the UK right now because we

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Speaker 3: don't see the conditions of certainty instability that we need

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Speaker 3: in order to invest. And that will affect people in

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Speaker 3: this room. It will affect startups, businesses, not only in

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Speaker 3: tech but across many, many sectors. So there's a political

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Speaker 3: price of this chaos as well.

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Speaker 2: But with the implosion of the S and P, do

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Speaker 2: you see what kind of opportunity do you see for

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Speaker 2: labor in Scotland.

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Speaker 3: Well, the emplosure of the SPB has been very profound

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Speaker 3: and I think it's done two things. It's now allowed

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Speaker 3: a proper examination of the SMP record in government. Until

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Speaker 3: this point, the SMP was quite able to ensure that

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Speaker 3: the only discussion in Scotland was about independence, about the referendum,

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Speaker 3: constitutional issues, and not about the things that actually, in

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Speaker 3: many respects matter so much more to people. So now

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Speaker 3: that torch, if you like, that light is shone on

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Speaker 3: their record, and it's not a very good record from

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Speaker 3: our point of view, it obviously gives us an opportunity

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Speaker 3: to make an argument about Scotland about the future of Scotland.

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Speaker 3: That means we are more likely to be heard as

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Speaker 3: we go forward. We've got a strong case to put

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Speaker 3: in Scotland, a very positive case to put in Scotland.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't necessarily flow that because the SMP implodes. SMP

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Speaker 3: voters necessarily moved to a different political party. We've got

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Speaker 3: to earn every vote. We've got to make our case.

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Speaker 3: But we've now got the chance to make that case.

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Speaker 2: So we're at London Tech Week. You look at AI.

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Speaker 2: Is it a risk or a benefit?

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Speaker 3: I mean a bit of both. There are huge potential

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Speaker 3: and everybody in this room knows that and incredible opportunities.

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Speaker 3: I did a speech on the future of the NHS

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Speaker 3: a few weeks ago and my main thesis was the

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Speaker 3: NHS is faced down on the floor. It needs to

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Speaker 3: be back up on its feet. But more than that,

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Speaker 3: it needs to be fit for the future, which is

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Speaker 3: a different question. Part of making it fit for the

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Speaker 3: future is using technology to a much greater extent. Is

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Speaker 3: an important report come out this morning on that. And

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Speaker 3: one of the examples I used in my speech, which

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Speaker 3: is about AI, was if a radiologist works with AI

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Speaker 3: when doing scans for cancer, particularly liver scans, they're sixty

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Speaker 3: percent more likely to get them at an earlier stage,

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Speaker 3: which makes a massive difference obviously to the individual patient

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Speaker 3: and a huge difference to the NHS as well. So huge,

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Speaker 3: huge potential, but of course risks, risks of misinforma, risks.

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Speaker 4: That it's used in ways which we wouldn't consider to

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Speaker 4: be good. Risks.

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Speaker 3: More broadly, that AI is accelerating so very fast that.

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Speaker 4: Some of the jobs that are.

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Speaker 3: Being done now by people will almost certainly be being

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Speaker 3: done by AI. Already are to some extent, but I'm

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Speaker 3: really struck by the speed of acceleration of development in AI,

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Speaker 3: and so we need to put ourselves in a position

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Speaker 3: to take advantage of the great benefits, but guard against

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Speaker 3: the risks.

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Speaker 2: Do you use chat GPT, and if so, would you

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Speaker 2: ask it so?

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Speaker 3: I have a masterclass on chat GPT almost every day

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Speaker 3: because I've got a fourteen year old son who looks

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Speaker 3: at it all the time and shows me what it's

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Speaker 3: capable of. And it's really incredible on a number of respects.

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Speaker 3: One that for my fourteen year old son this is

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Speaker 3: not seen to be outlandish. It's something which he thinks

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Speaker 3: is really interesting will be a major part of his life.

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Speaker 3: So I see it developing there, see what it's capable

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Speaker 3: of doing, see what he puts into it, and information

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Speaker 3: that you can get out of it at the drop

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Speaker 3: of a hat.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely incredible.

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Speaker 3: You only have to see that to realize the impact

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Speaker 3: it's going to have on jobs. I've also had I

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Speaker 3: was talked through the example of the radiologist and AI

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Speaker 3: at a cancer around table to understand myself how that works.

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Speaker 4: But it comes up all the time.

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Speaker 3: A week ago Monday, I was at Hinkley Point C,

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Speaker 3: the nuclear reactor that is being built in Somerset, and

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Speaker 3: they've got nine thousand people on that site in the

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Speaker 3: construction site and they have to it's a massive site,

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Speaker 3: biggest construction site I think in Europe, have to bust

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Speaker 3: them around the site the whole time. And already the

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Speaker 3: question is is AI going to be driving used to

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Speaker 3: drive the buses and therefore what's the impact for jobs.

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Speaker 3: So it's all around us. I feel we're slightly behind

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Speaker 3: the curve. I think the government's right to focus on AI,

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Speaker 3: but there's a long way to go in terms of

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Speaker 3: what we do with it. Regulation we're just beginning to

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Speaker 3: have the discussion that's needed both here and internationally, and

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Speaker 3: a much more informed discussion about jobs I think is

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Speaker 3: vitally vitally important, because otherwise, you know, we will risk

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Speaker 3: not addressing one of the key questions, which is who

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Speaker 3: benefits from this? Who benefits? Is it just those that

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Speaker 3: always benefit from advancements in technology or is it everybody

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Speaker 3: that we take with us? And it's got to be

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Speaker 3: the second of those.

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Speaker 2: How many jobs do you think will be last because

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Speaker 2: of AI? I mean, the UK has huge strengths and

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Speaker 2: financial services and creative services which could you know, be

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Speaker 2: fairly wiped out. How do you protect those jobs?

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Speaker 3: Look, I don't know the number as the honest answer,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not sure anybody really does, but the percentages

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Speaker 3: that have been put out there are quite staggering. And

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Speaker 3: you can see why because AI is now moving so fast,

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Speaker 3: capable of doing things drafting contracts, writing documents, assessing financial material,

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Speaker 3: you know, helping with driving buses, radiologists, scanning. So it

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Speaker 3: is obvious it'll have an impact. The question is how

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Speaker 3: do we harness that good? And this is where I

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Speaker 3: think there's a real point of distinction. So do we

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Speaker 3: agree with the government AI as really important.

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Speaker 4: Yes. Do I think it's right.

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Speaker 3: That Rishisunaka's set up a summit here later in the year, Yes,

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Speaker 3: but what's the substance and how do you I mean

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Speaker 3: this is being developed predominantly by the private sector at speed.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've got an advantage. Google Deep Mind is here,

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Speaker 3: We've got brilliant innovation, we've got brilliant universities. So we've

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Speaker 3: got all the attributes if you like, to make a

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Speaker 3: real success of this. But we're nowhere near where we

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Speaker 3: need to be. On the question of regulation. There's a

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Speaker 3: bit of piecemeal sector bisector regulation, you know, in the

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Speaker 3: medical field, the legal field, et cetera, financial services, but

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Speaker 3: we haven't got an overarch and framework and so we've

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Speaker 3: got to get our hands around this. We do need

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Speaker 3: to be clear about what we're doing about jobs, and

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Speaker 3: then there's a mindset. An incoming labor government will be

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Speaker 3: a government that partners with business with a clear long

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Speaker 3: term strategy, a skill strategy, and an industrial strateguy that

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Speaker 3: means that we work together with business. So we will

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Speaker 3: be a government that rolls up its leeves, gets on

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Speaker 3: the pitch and works with business to make sure that

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Speaker 3: we harness the great benefits of AI and together work

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Speaker 3: against the risk. And most businesses I've spoken to in

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Speaker 3: relation to AI say, look here, it would be a

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Speaker 3: good thing to have regulation because we think that that

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Speaker 3: will make it more likely that we can succeed. So

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Speaker 3: I think that working in this way we can make

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Speaker 3: a real success of this. The risk is in a

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Speaker 3: way that we don't take that opportunity.

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Speaker 2: So concretely, what does it look like like an AI

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Speaker 2: ministry focused on regulation? Oh?

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Speaker 3: I think there's going to have to be an overarching

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Speaker 3: regulatory framework of some sort. The government's talking about principles

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Speaker 3: in legislation which then find themselves in each of the sectors.

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Speaker 3: I think we're going to have something stronger than that.

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Speaker 3: I think foundation AI needs regulation as well, and that

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Speaker 3: requires international leadership as well as leadership here, but also

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Speaker 3: working with businesses, because you need a government that's on

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Speaker 3: the pitch, working with business to say, if there are

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Speaker 3: to be changes in jobs. Let's say there are job losses,

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Speaker 3: what are we going to do about the workforce. What's

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Speaker 3: the skilling reskilling agenda? And how does that work at

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Speaker 3: pace as we go forward? And that's something which has

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Speaker 3: not happened now for many years.

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Speaker 2: So does it AI mean we should seriously consider universal

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Speaker 2: basic income?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm not attracted to universal basic income. I think

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Speaker 3: that the advantage here would be for AI to take

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Speaker 3: some of the jobs AI will be able to do,

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Speaker 3: and for us to make sure that we can train

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Speaker 3: and retrain and reskill the workforce into other areas. So

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Speaker 3: that's where I would put my energy. And I think

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Speaker 3: there's almost every business I speak to says to me

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Speaker 3: almost all the time, I haven't got the skills I need.

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Speaker 3: There's a huge, huge opportunity here to.

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Speaker 4: Get this right.

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Speaker 3: The apprenticeship levy is constantly complained about and ought to

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Speaker 3: be changed, so there's stuff we can do there. We've

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Speaker 3: proposed Skills England, which is a body to oversee skills,

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Speaker 3: and I want to devolve skills also closer to where

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Speaker 3: businesses are in their area geographically. So I think we

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Speaker 3: need to seize the skills agenda and see that. So

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't go down the UBI route. I would go

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Speaker 3: down the skills and reskilling route.

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Speaker 2: But how difficult is that given we don't really know

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Speaker 2: the jobs of tomorrow. I mean I should have asked

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Speaker 2: a GBT what they see as the skills need we

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Speaker 2: have to ask you a son to do it for us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But I mean I think rather than sit and

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Speaker 3: try to identify each and every job that might be affected,

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Speaker 3: and there's going to be many, I think it's a

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Speaker 3: sense of what the infrastructure, the framework that a government

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Speaker 3: needs to set up and are we ready for the

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Speaker 3: speed of this, Because I think there's still a bit

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Speaker 3: of a feeling that AI may affect us in five

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Speaker 3: years or six or seven years. I think it's more

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Speaker 3: likely to be in the next twelve months, eighteen months.

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Speaker 4: So we've got a plan for.

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Speaker 3: Rapid change and at the moment under this government, we

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Speaker 3: don't have that infrastructure, that framework in place.

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Speaker 2: So what does that look like for R and D funding?

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Speaker 2: If you look at R and D funding totally in

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Speaker 2: the UK, it's still smaller. If you take government, business

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Speaker 2: and university. I think it's less than Google and Apple

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Speaker 2: between them.

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Speaker 3: I think Google and Apple put in more in R

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Speaker 3: and D than the government does. I think that's well

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Speaker 3: government and business government. I think that's similar in other

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Speaker 3: countries if I'm right, So that's not peculiar to the UK,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's probably wrong to just think well,

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Speaker 3: this should be a competition with each side sort of

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Speaker 3: upping the numbers. I think that's how we work together.

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Speaker 4: This is why.

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Speaker 3: The partnership model that we want in government is vitally important.

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Speaker 3: I mean, assuming we have an election next year, which

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Speaker 3: obviously we will have, we get the opportunity and it

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Speaker 3: is an opportunity if we get the privilege to serve,

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Speaker 3: but we're going to inherit a real mess. The economy

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Speaker 3: has broken, public services are broken, the civil service has

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Speaker 3: lost its sort of confidence in the light of constant attacks.

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Speaker 3: So we've got to pick the country up. And our

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Speaker 3: reputation isn't where it should be to pick the country up.

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Speaker 3: And what I've said is that requires us to be

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Speaker 3: mission driven, to be absolutely clear what are we going

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Speaker 3: to achieve in government? And we've got five clear missions,

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Speaker 3: the first of which is economic growth and how do

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Speaker 3: we achieve that? And technology AI will be part of

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Speaker 3: the story, whether it's on health, whether it's growing the economy.

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Speaker 3: That will enhance and allow us to drive forward with

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Speaker 3: those missions, which and they will require us to partner

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Speaker 3: with business. If you win an election, I think you

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Speaker 3: can legitimately say this is what we will achieve in government,

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Speaker 3: we've set it out, But then you get the choice

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Speaker 3: of saying, well, how will you do that? Will you

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Speaker 3: suck it up to Westminster Whitehall and do it from

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Speaker 3: the center. No, I don't think that model works. Will

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Speaker 3: you simply say well, we've set out what we want

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Speaker 3: to achieve, it's for the market now to determine how

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Speaker 3: that's done. I don't think that model works, and not

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Speaker 3: many businesses believe that's the model that's going to work.

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Speaker 3: Or do you say we're going to have a true

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Speaker 3: partnership between an active, agile labor, government and business, clear

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Speaker 3: about what we're trying to achieve and working together to

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Speaker 3: achieve it. And therefore, when it comes to R and D,

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Speaker 3: the question is how do we jointly make the best

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Speaker 3: of R and D, which we desperately need to do.

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Speaker 2: The UK does have real tech success stories like farm,

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Speaker 2: but they've listed in New York. So how do you

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Speaker 2: make it attractive for a business like that to list here?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 3: I do think that we I mean, we're third in

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Speaker 3: the world and we've got an amazing tech going on

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Speaker 3: in the UK. We need to recognize that and we

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Speaker 3: need to be clear about that and make sure that

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Speaker 3: we don't lose that. Google Deep Mind is fantastic. It's

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Speaker 3: in my constituency. I've seen it a number of times,

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Speaker 3: and as many people here will have done. We've got

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Speaker 3: brilliant universities, we've got startups law that are using tech

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Speaker 3: the whole time. In order to harness that, we've got

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Speaker 3: to have not just the skills that I was speaking abo,

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Speaker 3: I've got to help. The problem with startups is that

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Speaker 3: when they scale up, it tends to go elsewhere. So

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Speaker 3: we've got to capture that problem, which is about access

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Speaker 3: to capital and create the environment where we can succeed

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Speaker 3: on this. I genuinely think we can do it, but

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Speaker 3: it is about creating the environment to do it.

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Speaker 2: Do you think under a labor government a lot of

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Speaker 2: entrepreneurs and investors here will want to stay in the

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Speaker 2: UK and also list in the UK.

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Speaker 3: I hope so, because we want to create the environment

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Speaker 3: which it will be possible to start up, to scale

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Speaker 3: up where we can attract the sorts of innovation, technical

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Speaker 3: innovation and build on what we've got. But the single

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Speaker 3: most important thing is going to be growing the economy.

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Speaker 3: We've had a pretty stagnant economy for thirteen years now,

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Speaker 3: and we've got to kickstart that and get the growth

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Speaker 3: that we need, and that requires a long term plan

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Speaker 3: for growth. I mean it goes back to almost where

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Speaker 3: we started. For growth in this country, the foundational stone

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Speaker 3: is stability and certainty, and that's what we've been lacking

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Speaker 3: under this government. We've been chopping and checking it. It's

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Speaker 3: politically amusing that we've had three prime ministers in a

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Speaker 3: year when it comes to growing the economy and investing

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Speaker 3: is hopeless. It puts people off investing. It creates the

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Speaker 3: sense this isn't an environment where we can be sure

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Speaker 3: what's even going to happen for the next six months.

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Speaker 3: If your business secretary changes all the time, then you

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Speaker 3: can't make key decisions. So stability, long term strategic thinking.

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Speaker 3: That's why I want missions, by the way, which is

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Speaker 3: to answer the question what's the five or even ten

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Speaker 3: year strategy for this government? So everybody in this room,

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Speaker 3: everybody listening to this knows right that's where they're going

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Speaker 3: to put their attention. That's the focus they've got, and

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Speaker 3: we can make investment and other decisions based on that

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Speaker 3: degree of certainty.

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Speaker 2: But how much of your attention would you focus on

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Speaker 2: for example, chip manufacturing. It if you look at Nvidia

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Speaker 2: that makes chips for AI, they became a one trillion

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Speaker 2: dollar company.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, we can do.

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Speaker 3: We do have expertise in some areas here, but obviously

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Speaker 3: we've got to get the relationship with the US right

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Speaker 3: in relation to chips. So there's that international heavy duty

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Speaker 3: pulling as well, and that is another area that I'm

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Speaker 3: worried about because I think the turmoil we've had, the

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Speaker 3: chaos in government, does affect how other countries look at US.

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Speaker 3: I went to Davos earlier this year and one of

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Speaker 3: the big takeaways from me was other countries lamenting the

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Speaker 3: fact that the UK is not on the international stage

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Speaker 3: in the way that it used to be. And I

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Speaker 3: want that wanted there and here to have a statement

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Speaker 3: of intent, which is an incoming labor government will put

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Speaker 3: us right back on the international stage and leading on

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Speaker 3: some of the discussions that will have a profound impact

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Speaker 3: on growth stability. What's our response the Inflation Reduction Act

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Speaker 3: in America was a critical question.

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Speaker 4: I can feel.

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Speaker 3: Investors being drawn towards the US and we need a

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Speaker 3: response in the UK to that. We can't just sit

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Speaker 3: it out saying well, we don't really agree with what

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Speaker 3: they're doing, so we'll look on and do nothing.

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Speaker 4: I think that's completely wrong.

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Speaker 3: So creating those conditions for businesses to thrive is absolutely

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Speaker 3: vital to us.

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Speaker 2: But is that with subsidies and with what money?

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Speaker 3: Well, we've got what we call it a Green Prosperity Plan,

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Speaker 3: which is a plan which sets out what we intend

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Speaker 3: to achieve. One example of that, for example, is green

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Speaker 3: clean power generation by twenty thirty.

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Speaker 4: That's a stretch target.

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Speaker 3: I think it can be done with technology, with AI

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Speaker 3: running towards the problem. It'll give us lower bills, security,

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Speaker 3: independence from tyrants like Putin, and a real chance to

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Speaker 3: grow our economy. And we need money put behind that.

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Speaker 3: But it's also about the partnership working. So we've got

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Speaker 3: a plan that will be our equivalent, if you like,

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Speaker 3: of the Inflation Reduction Act. What I don't believe in

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Speaker 3: is a government that just looks at the problem then

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Speaker 3: sits it out. I think it'll be a huge mistake

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Speaker 3: for our country. We've got to be on the pitch,

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Speaker 3: agile and active, working with business to reap what will

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Speaker 3: be the very great.

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Speaker 4: Rewards if we get this right.

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Speaker 3: This has the potential to be the sort of next

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Speaker 3: generation of jobs, skill jobs in place across the country,

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Speaker 3: all bundled up together. That's a huge, huge prize that

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Speaker 3: we need to go out there and seize it.

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Speaker 2: Well, we talked a bit about the opportunities very quickly

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Speaker 2: as we end up. Are we in an AI terminator

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Speaker 2: or two situation? What are you most afraid of when

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Speaker 2: it comes to AI and technology?

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Speaker 3: Firstly, I don't want to just get into the business

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Speaker 3: saying I'm afraid of it all, because actually I do

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Speaker 3: think it's called brilliant potential. Obviously, misinformation is a problem,

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Speaker 3: and if it gets to a stage where people don't

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Speaker 3: trust the information they've got, I think is a real issue.

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Speaker 3: I do think that we need to fast forward on

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Speaker 3: the regulation side. I don't see that going at anything

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Speaker 3: like the speed and you know, I'm not in the

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Speaker 3: sort of you know, existential question, but I do think,

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Speaker 3: I mean, because I tend to sort of be much

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Speaker 3: more grounded than that. I think most people who are

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Speaker 3: beginning to talk about AAI and understanding what it is

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Speaker 3: will probably be thinking, what does this mean for my job?

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Speaker 3: Will I be all right with my job? What happens

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Speaker 3: if AI does a bit of my job, and it

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Speaker 3: won't just be some of the people have been most

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Speaker 3: affected by tech in the past. It will be I

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Speaker 3: think at all levels. I could see in the legal profession.

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously I was a lawyer before I became

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Speaker 3: a politician.

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Speaker 4: In the legal profession that.

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Speaker 3: AI could have a profound impact on drafting of contracts,

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Speaker 3: you know, the sorts of things that routinely a lawyer

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Speaker 3: might do. And so we've got to answer that question

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Speaker 3: about what's our answer to people say I want a skilled,

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Speaker 3: secure job of the future, which is totally understandable.

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Speaker 4: I know it's going to be affected by AI.

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Speaker 3: What's my government doing working with the sector to ensure

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Speaker 3: that my future is secure and that I benefit along

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Speaker 3: with everybody else in something that could and I'm sure

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Speaker 3: will be a real game changer for the country.

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Speaker 2: Secure Starmer, Thank you so much for your time day,

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: So much, Thank you for having me. Thank you m

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Speaker 3: HM