1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Jonathan Ferrow, along 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: with Lisa Bromwitz and Amrie Hordern. Join us each day 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: for insight from the best in markets, economics, and geopolitics 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 2: from our global headquarters in New York City. We are 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from six to nine 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: anywhere else you listen, and as always on the Bloomberg 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: Terminal and the Bloomberg Business App. We begin with our 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 2: top story, the S and P five hundred notching its 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: longest winning street since November as Trader's Way the Fed's 12 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: path ahead, Bob Michael of JP Morgan Accid Management letting 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 2: out his timeline right in the following. We expect twenty 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 2: five basis point ray cuts at each FMC meeting in 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, and then quarterly in twenty five. A 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: consistent rate cutting cycle is the essential ingredient in our 17 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: forecast of a soft landing. On just now for more, 18 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: Buck and Mornic, good morning, everything and nothing has changed 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: since we last spoke, Because I think we lost spoke 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: on federalzerv Decision Day two days before that scary job support, 21 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: which we've all moved on from what's your take on 22 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: where things have been over the last couple of weeks. 23 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 3: But so much has changed. We were sitting here on 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 3: FED Day and we were saying, just get through this meeting. 25 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 3: You have a free inter meeting meeting with Jackson Hole. 26 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 3: You can wait and watch the data and have a 27 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 3: do over before this September meeting. And here we are 28 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 3: at Jackson Hole, and they should take the do over. 29 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: They've they looked at the employment data, it's softened up. 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 3: You look at the inflation data, it's come into where 31 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 3: they would like. 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 4: To see it. 33 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 3: I would use this Jackson Hole conference to set the 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 3: time frame and expectations for the market. We're going to 35 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: cut rates. This is the shape it's going to take. 36 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 3: These are the things we're looking at. There's a gift. 37 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 3: On the other hand, I think they should just do nothing. 38 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 3: All the data has come their way. They've guided us 39 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: to a feathery soft landing. Just don't mess it up. 40 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 3: Start cutting rates in September and let's get on with you. 41 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: You're talking about what's needed, the essential ingredient for that 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: feathery soft landing, and it's quite a cool Still you're 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: looking for three cuts this year at twenty five basis points, 44 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: and then again through twenty twenty five. Just this consistent 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: rate cutting cycle you've described. Why is that the essential ingredient? 46 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: Where do you think neutral is? What is restrictive, what's accommodative? 47 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: What do we need for this economy that we have? 48 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 3: Because inflation has come from here down to here, and 49 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 3: it's still on that downward trajectory. If you look at 50 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: the three month annualized rate of course CPI and the 51 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 3: expectation on where a core PC is going to be, 52 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: there's sub two percent. So inflation has come down a lot. 53 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 3: You're hearing from a lot of the retail marketers. They're 54 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 3: announcing earnings, there's some consumer pushback on pricing. They're choosier 55 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 3: about what they're spending on, and that's it the top line. 56 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 3: So inflation is coming down. You look at the labor market, 57 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: slack has been created. We've got unemployment up at four 58 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 3: point three percent, we're not at three point four percent. 59 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 3: You look at wages, Wages dropped from three point nine 60 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 3: percent year every year to three point six percent year 61 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 3: every year. If you leave restrictive rates at the level 62 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: they're at currently, then that worsens the labor market, and 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 3: then you've got not a problem with inflation, but the 64 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: pace of disinflation. You've got to start relieving the pressure 65 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 3: on businesses and households. 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 5: Why do you think that we haven't seen a more 67 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 5: aggressive slow down then? If this really is because of 68 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 5: the rates? And I ask this because I was looking 69 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 5: at data compiled by Evercore, isis Julian and Manuel showing 70 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 5: that you're seeing the S and P five hundred and 71 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 5: second quarter a year over year earnings per share growth 72 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 5: at ten percent, You're seeing profit margins that are expanding. 73 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 5: How does this scream a market that's on the brink 74 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 5: of falling off if you don't get those rate cuts 75 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 5: that are significant. 76 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: Well, there's still a lot of money sloshing around in 77 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 3: the system. What I'm talking about is slowing down to 78 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: trend and then bringing policy in line with stabilizing growth 79 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: and inflation around trend. What Julian's talking about is, hey, 80 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: there's still a lot of economic activity out there. He's right. 81 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 3: I was listening to Mary Powell earlier from sun Roun 82 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: she's talking about everyone accessing the wonderfully named Inflation Reduction 83 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 3: Act to spend and invest in solar. There's all that 84 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 3: money still in the system. It is creating an underlying 85 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 3: level of economic activity. It's probably one of the things 86 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 3: you need to ensure that a soft landing actually occurs 87 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 3: and you don't have recession. 88 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 5: So you said that Jay Powell should both do nothing 89 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 5: but also should sort of telegraph some kind of path 90 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 5: ahead in the Jacksonville. 91 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: That's what I want. I want a very clear road, 92 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 3: all right. 93 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 5: So you want to clear them map, but you don't 94 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 5: expect him to do it because there's absolutely no advantage 95 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 5: to him doing that. Okay, So what do you think 96 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 5: actually could be the roadmap beyond this year that you 97 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 5: could give with any clarity, Given the fact that you're 98 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 5: talking about some of that income that people received that 99 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 5: has helped fuel some of the price inflation, that could 100 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 5: reprise itself next year depending on some of the policies 101 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 5: that may or may not be fact that we're hearing 102 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 5: from both candidates. 103 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 3: Well, that keeps a twenty seven trillion dollar economy operating 104 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: at twenty seven trillion dollars. That's okay, But how do 105 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: you start building some real growth upon that. You need 106 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: the housing market to reignite again. Clearly there's demand for housing. 107 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 3: There's a three to four million unit housing shortage in 108 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 3: the US. You bring down rates, it pulls down mortgage rates. 109 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: That suddenly makes housing affordable again, and you get the 110 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 3: first time buyers to step in there and all the 111 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 3: things that you talk about, building decks and stuff like 112 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: that begins to happen. So it's one of the things 113 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 3: that bringing rates down actually does. It's not that a 114 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: quarter fifty basis point cut doesn't do anything. It actually 115 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 3: does a lot. A lot of businesses and households fund 116 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 3: themselves off of the floating rate market. 117 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 6: Well, when it comes to housing, what about twenty five 118 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 6: thousand dollars for new homeowners? Also in what you love 119 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 6: to hear this week but unlikely, is a detailed economic 120 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 6: plan from Kamala Harris. 121 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 4: What do you make of what we heard so far? 122 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 3: I think the DNC is in the same position as 123 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 3: the FED. The data has come their way in a 124 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 3: big way and they're well ahead in the polls. So 125 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 3: just get through this conference with a lot of platitudes 126 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 3: and euphoria and take that momentum. I don't think we're 127 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 3: going to see a detailed economic agenda. I think twenty 128 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: five thousand housing credit, it's a great idea. Who ends 129 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 3: up paying that bill? Does it just get sent to 130 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 3: the Treasury and there's more funding that comes out? Probably? 131 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: Will it ever get through a split Congress? 132 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 4: Maybe not. We don't have detailed proposals. 133 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 6: But he is basically running on the Biden platform and 134 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 6: Trump was already president before they are incumbents. How do 135 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 6: you think about twenty twenty five when you think about 136 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 6: these two individuals potentially being in the White House. 137 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: I think we've gone through periods where the administration has 138 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: had very clear views on what they've want to do. 139 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 3: But if you have a split Congress, they've got a 140 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: very different mindset and it's very difficult to get legislation through. 141 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: So I think the real focus should be looking at Congress, 142 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,119 Speaker 3: looking at the House, looking at the Senate, and seeing 143 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 3: how those elections go. 144 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 4: Let's work through your calls. 145 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: Just to wrap it up, long duration, curve, steepness, stay 146 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 2: overweight credit. I just want to pick up on the 147 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: duration point. Explore this with Calsie Barrow yesterday. I want 148 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: an idea from you on where you think yields are 149 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: heading this time next year, What kind of yield curve 150 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: are we going to be looking at, What kind of 151 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: numbers are along the bondom? 152 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 4: What are you looking for? 153 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 3: So intuitively, I want to say where yields are today? 154 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: The FED has to bring rates down to three and 155 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 3: a half percent. That's two hundred basis points. That's a lot. 156 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: That's pretty normal in a cutting cycle, and cutting cycles 157 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 3: are usually coincident with recession. We don't see a recession, 158 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 3: but a three and a half percent FED funds rate 159 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: is one and a half real That seems to be 160 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: a fair level in the curse price for that. Then 161 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 3: I look at all the money still sitting in cash 162 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 3: that's out there. I think of every single client conversation 163 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 3: I have every day. It doesn't matter if it's institutional 164 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 3: or it's in a wealth management platform. It doesn't matter 165 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 3: if it's domestic or international. Everyone is looking for a 166 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 3: way to get into the bond market and frustrated beyond 167 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 3: belief because they never got to buy it. Yields a 168 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 3: five to six percent, and once rates start coming down 169 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 3: and money market fund returns start to drift lower, that 170 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 3: money will come in, and that money's not thinking about, Oh, 171 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: I want to buy the ten year, I want to 172 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: put on a two ten steepener or flattener. The market's thinking. 173 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 3: Put me in an aggregate bond fund. Put me in 174 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 3: a general muni bond fund. Do you have an income fund? Okay, 175 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 3: put me in there. What kind of ETF do you have? 176 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: Do you have a core plus etf? Put me in there, 177 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 3: And that money comes into the market in a big way, 178 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 3: And asset managers may sit there and say, oh, you know, 179 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 3: yields are a little rich. I'm going to be underweight 180 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 3: duration by a quarter of a year. So they're still 181 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: buying six years of duration. They're under by a quarter 182 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 3: of a year. And that money's coming in, So I 183 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 3: wear yields could get down to three percent. 184 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 4: Or even lower. 185 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: Three point zero yep, three point zero on tens on tens. 186 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: Is that process started. 187 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: It's started in just the tiniest drip of ways, which 188 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 3: I've always turned around, said look where yields are, and 189 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 3: everyone's telling you, oh, we don't like them. Here, we 190 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 3: don't like them. 191 00:09:58,720 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 4: Here. 192 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: Look how far through the fed funds radar. Look how 193 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: cozy it is at five and a half percent in cash, 194 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: then who the heck is buying to take the entire 195 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 3: yal curve down through four percent. There's a lot of 196 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 3: buying of money that's leaking in, but it is not 197 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 3: come in in earnest. That process hasn't started. 198 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 4: Bob. 199 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 2: This was fun, Thank you, sir. Going to catch you. 200 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 4: Appreciate it, Bob, Michael. 201 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: There JP Morgan as a management with some very interesting 202 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: cause on what isn't happening and will happen in fixed 203 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 2: income over. 204 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 4: The next year or so. 205 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 2: Vice President Kamala Harris looking to rebrand Bidyomics as she 206 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: develops her own economic policy, zeroing in on the middle class. 207 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: She's pledging to expand caps on prescription drug casts, revamp 208 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: child tax credits, and eliminate price scout chick. Mike Pile, 209 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 2: a former Biden Administration Deputy National Security Advisor for International Economics, 210 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 2: is currently an economic advisor for Kamala Harris and joined 211 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 2: US now. Mike is going to see you, sir. 212 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 4: Great to be here. 213 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: Black Rock also worked in the Vice President's office, so 214 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 2: you're an experienced guy to ask this first question too. 215 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: There are already some laws around price gouging, particularly at 216 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: the state level across this country. What would a Harris 217 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: administration look to achieve that we don't already have. 218 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 7: Yes, I think you're right to point to those state laws. 219 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 7: I think if you look at the principles that the 220 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 7: Vice president's thinking about when she thinks about it in 221 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 7: an action like this, you know there are a few. 222 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 7: You know, One, this has got to be focused on 223 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 7: the food and grocery industry. Two, this is really about emergencies. 224 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 7: This is about very acute moments of dislocation, like after 225 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 7: a hurricane or natural disaster. 226 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 4: Three. 227 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 7: Going to build off of those state laws. There are 228 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 7: forty state laws on the books that go to price 229 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 7: gouging and emergency situations, Red and blue states alike. That's 230 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 7: going to be a model for her. You know, she's 231 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 7: also really focused on bad actors, nefarious actions. 232 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 4: This is not price controls. 233 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 7: There is no preset metric or other kind of quantitative 234 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 7: target she's looking at. 235 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 4: It's really bad action. 236 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 7: And lastly, she recognizes that the food industry in general 237 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 7: is one that needs more competition, and she's going to 238 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 7: work hard to spur small providers both of food and 239 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 7: groceries to really work on that competition. 240 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: All let's unpack some of that piece by pace we 241 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: can get into the industry and just the moment, I 242 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 2: want to talk about the word emergency and how you 243 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: defined it. Would you define the pandemic as an emergency? 244 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: And at what point did the pandemic start and at 245 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 2: what point did it end? Because I'm just trying to 246 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: work out how this rule might be applied, how people 247 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 2: might define things going forward. 248 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I think that the type of emergency 249 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 7: that we have in mind is much more like an 250 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 7: acute natural disaster. I think, much more like hurricane, earthquake, 251 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 7: a very acute dislocation. Obviously, the pandemic at some level 252 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 7: was everything for two or three years. That's very different 253 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 7: than a very acute dislocation on the back of a 254 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 7: natural disaster. 255 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 6: Does do you or the Vice president right now see 256 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 6: companies that are price gouging? 257 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 7: So yeah, I think, like I said, I don't really 258 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 7: think there are emergency conditions out there. So I think 259 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 7: it's very hard to say that this is anything that 260 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 7: would apply in the here and now. I think she 261 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 7: does look at the food and end grocery industry or at large, 262 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 7: sees one that in particular places has a good deal 263 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 7: of concentration, and I think as a result, is really 264 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 7: focused on spurring competition more broadly, including like I said, 265 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 7: with small providers both on the agriculture and and grocery side. 266 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 7: If we can spur more competitions, spur more supply, that's 267 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 7: going to lead to lower prices for consumers. But that's 268 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 7: different than going after our bad actors in the course 269 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 7: of an emergency. 270 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 6: Speaking of competition, there's a debate within the Democratic Party, 271 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 6: especially the donor class and the progressives about this exact thing, competition, 272 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 6: anti trust and whether or not Lena Khan should still 273 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 6: be the head of the FTC under a Harris administration. 274 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 6: Where is Kamala Harris the Vice president on that right now? 275 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 7: So where the vice president is focused over the next 276 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 7: seventy eight days on unifying the Democratic Party and beating 277 00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 7: Donald Trump. 278 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 4: That is her core focus. 279 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 7: I think, you know, she, alongside the president, over the 280 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 7: last three and a half years, has built a governing 281 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 7: record across a whole range of issues. She's proud of 282 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 7: that record, but right now her focus is on prosecuting 283 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 7: the case for the next seventy eight days. 284 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 4: Let's talk about the record. 285 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 6: You briefed her every day as her economic advisor when 286 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 6: she was vice president before you moved to the west wing. 287 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 6: At one point, when she was running to be president 288 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 6: in the primary, she was against racking. Now she says 289 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 6: she's not healthcare. At one point she's supported to eliminate 290 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 6: private health insurance. She says she's not. Do you know 291 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 6: which Kamala Harris we are going to get if she 292 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 6: becomes president again? 293 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 7: I would say she has built a three and a 294 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 7: half year governing track record with the president. If you 295 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 7: look at issue after issue after issue, she and the 296 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 7: president have made choices to advance the interests of the 297 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 7: middle class, to advance the interests of working people in 298 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 7: this country. I'd say, you know, look at the record 299 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 7: she's built has vice president sitting in office for the 300 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 7: last three and a half years. That's the starting point 301 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 7: for how you should think about how the vice president 302 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 7: would govern wud she's president. 303 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 5: There's a question about the feasibility of some of the proposals. 304 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 5: I'm thinking in particular about the housing market and the 305 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 5: twenty five thousand dollars subsidies for people to be able 306 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 5: to make a down payment, as well as adding three 307 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 5: million homes. A question of whether you can do that 308 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 5: in such a way that giving money to people for 309 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 5: down payments won't just prop up prices and lead to 310 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 5: less affordability. How do you sort of square that circle? 311 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think the most important thing that you heard 312 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 7: the Vice President talk about with respect to housing affordability 313 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 7: is saying, we've got a crisis of building in this country. 314 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 7: We've got to get more units built. We need to 315 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 7: be ambitious with respect to what we're going to target 316 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 7: in terms of eliminating that affordable housing construction gap. And 317 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 7: we're going to work with builders and developers across the 318 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 7: country to get units built. We're going to work with 319 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 7: state and the whole governments to knock down barriers to 320 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 7: construction to get units built. That is the center of 321 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 7: her vision. She also recognizes that as we do that, 322 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 7: it takes time to get tracked, It takes time to 323 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 7: get momentum, It takes time to get things built, and 324 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 7: in the meantime, people are still suffering, are still feeling 325 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 7: that pinch of housing affordability, and something like a buyer's 326 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 7: credit can make a difference for household struggling to reach 327 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 7: the middle class. 328 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 4: In the meantime, while supply ramps up. 329 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 5: I guess that one question that people have is what 330 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 5: we saw during the pandemic, was it some of the subsidies, 331 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 5: some of the money that was sent to people was 332 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 5: done before some of the products were brought online, which 333 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 5: is part of the reason why we saw the surgeon inflation. 334 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 5: How do you sort of get ahead of that type 335 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 5: of response, given that we've seen the difficulty in building 336 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 5: homes consistently, the red tape, etc. It just takes time, 337 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 5: not to mention the lumber costs as well as getting 338 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 5: enough people to build the homes. 339 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 7: Yeah again, I mean, I think that's why it was 340 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 7: so important that you heard the Vice President putting the 341 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 7: supply story at the beginning of the story of housing affordability. 342 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 7: I think she's laser focused on recognizing there are barriers 343 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 7: across this country, Blue states and red states alive to 344 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 7: getting things built. And whether it's new initiatives to help 345 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 7: builders and developers work alongside the federal government to get 346 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 7: things built, whether that's working with statele governments to punch 347 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 7: through red tape, that's going to be your focus because 348 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 7: she recognizes that's the key to affordability, and it's going 349 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 7: to take time and focused energy to get that done. 350 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 2: Just to Stan on Lisa's line of questioning, Ultimately, there's 351 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 2: a duration mismatch here between how quickly you can stimulate 352 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: demand and how quickly you can address supply. Will we 353 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: just have to tolerate higher prices in the meantime? Is 354 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 2: that basically what we're going to see? Isn't that the 355 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: outcome of all of this? 356 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 7: So I think that these things are meant to work 357 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 7: in parallel with one another. That supply is going to 358 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 7: ramp up or going to get traction, There's going to 359 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 7: be a lot of focus there. At the same time, 360 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 7: there's a crisis today. Working in middle class families need 361 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 7: support today, and the Vice President's proposed a way to 362 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 7: do exactly that. 363 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 2: We talk about taxes, Sure, what's a good corporate tax 364 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: right for this country? 365 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 7: I think you saw the Vice president embrace the Biden 366 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 7: Harris proposal. Twenty percent is the proposal that the Vice 367 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 7: President supported, alongside what she and the President have already proposed. 368 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 2: So we move up to twenty eight Is she in 369 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: line with Biden as well on what he would have 370 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 2: done with the taxes that are set to expire, the 371 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 2: tax cuts that expire in twenty twenty five. 372 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that if you look at if you 373 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 7: look at the Biden Harris budget, you see a range 374 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 7: of tax proposals, you see a range of investments, you 375 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 7: see a range of principles around how the TCGA expiration 376 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 7: should be handled. And that's something that has a governing 377 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 7: partner to the President. That the Vice President has embraced. 378 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 2: Is the deficit and ongoing concern for you and the team. 379 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 7: I mean, I think you heard from the Vice President 380 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 7: herself on Friday when she gave her speech. She pointed 381 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 7: to the fact that when you look at the Trump 382 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 7: campaign playbook, it's extending and deepening tax cuts for corporations 383 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 7: in the wealthiest. It is not fully offsetting those with 384 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 7: a set of sales taxes on imported goods that will 385 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 7: hurt working families, and as a result, that's going to 386 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 7: increase and blow up the deficit. On the flip side, 387 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 7: if you look at the Biden Hair Ferris budget, there 388 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 7: is net deficit reduction alongside the investments in the middle class, 389 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 7: and she continues to believe that deficit reduction needs to 390 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 7: be an important part of the pitch. 391 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: We've run out of ton and we've only scratched the surface. 392 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 2: Do you think that the Vice president would sit down 393 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: with Bloomberg TV and actually have a conversation about the economy, 394 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 2: because we'd like to make that happen. 395 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 7: I think that the Vice President looks to go meet 396 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 7: voters wherever she can meet them, and there's a lot 397 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 7: of constraints center time over the next sev of the 398 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 7: eight days, but she wants to go where the voters are. 399 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: Got to make one interview happen might come on Mike Pile, 400 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: economic advisor to Vice President Kamala Harris. Let's turn to 401 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 2: energy and the energy sector. The boom and AI spending 402 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: putting a strain on the US electrical grip as companies 403 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: race the supply power for data centers. Mary Powell is 404 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 2: the CEO of sun Run, a solar rooftop company, and 405 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: says forecasts show the US needing the equivalent of about 406 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 2: thirty four new nuclear plants over the next five years 407 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: to meet rise in demand. Mary's with us around the 408 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: type of American morning to you, Good morning to you. 409 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: Great to have you with us. First question, what is 410 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: the utility exec doing at the largest rooftop solar installer 411 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: in this Oh? 412 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,239 Speaker 1: Well, what she's doing is helping to change America and 413 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: bring more affordable, resilient energy to homes all across America. So, 414 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: as a utility CEO, way back and I would say 415 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 1: mid two thousand, two thousand and five, two thousand and 416 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: six era, it was so obvious, so painfully obvious to 417 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: me that the utility grid itself was not a socioeconomics 418 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: solution for the long term for America. With the pressures 419 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: on costs and then climatic events, it was becoming very 420 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: very clear that we were going to end up where 421 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: we are, which is over one hundred billions spent last year, 422 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: trillions on the horizon, with no solution in sight to 423 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: lowering costs for Americans and delivering resilient power. 424 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 2: Can you talk to us a little bit more about 425 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 2: the initiatives that you'd like to see deployed to stabilize 426 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 2: the grid at times when it's super stress, when a 427 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 2: demand is really really high. What would you like to 428 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 2: see happen? 429 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: Well, what I'd like to see happen is what we're 430 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: doing expanded dramatically. So again part of why I'm passionate 431 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: about what we do. You know, we just hit a 432 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: million customers that represents a million people with the ability 433 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: to generate and in many cases store that clean energy 434 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: and then supply it back to the grid when it 435 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: needs it. And we are doing that all across America. 436 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: In fact, we just did a proof of concept pilot 437 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: using Ford F one fifty lightnings and showing how if 438 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: you have that plugged into your garage, you can also 439 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: support the grid and help make the grid more affordable 440 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: and resilient for all. So the vision has always been 441 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: the same and it's what I did as a utility CEO, 442 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: is that prove that having distributed generation assets all across 443 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: America can help be the solution for bringing down the 444 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: cost of the grid in the future. 445 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 5: There's sort of the next essential question we've been talking 446 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 5: a lot with policymakers, which is how how independent can 447 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 5: the US be while trying to provide renewable energy that's 448 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 5: affordable to the United States. A lot of the supplies 449 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 5: coming from China to create solar panels, to create some 450 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 5: of the renewable energies. How much does the industry really 451 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 5: hinge on ongoing access to those materials, to those supplies 452 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 5: from China. 453 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: Well, there has I mean from a supply chain perspective, 454 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: the story's actually gotten stronger recently, so we're feeling really 455 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: good about robust supply, both in solar and storage, but 456 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: also with the Inflation Reduction Act, as you know, and 457 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: the domestic content adders that are in that. What you're 458 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: seeing is jobs factories expanding in America and so we 459 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: expect to have access to more American made panels in 460 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: the future, and we also are already seeing significant benefits 461 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: in the storage space relative to that. So you know, 462 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: my view is what we do is the ultimate in 463 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: energy independence, and not just for helping America become energy 464 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: and dependent ultimately, but for those consumers. 465 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 4: I mean, it is really. 466 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: Powerful to have the sense of security, safety, and resilience 467 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: in your own home when you're generating and storing that energy. 468 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 4: You talk about the IRA. 469 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 5: There is a sort of pretty massive policy backdrop to this, 470 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 5: and people think of the Biden administration as being more 471 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 5: friendly to certain types of renewable energy sources. How vulnerable 472 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 5: is the industry to some pretty significant policy shifts regardless 473 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 5: of depending on who gets into the White House. 474 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: You know, from a foundational perspective, let's remember that when 475 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: President Trump signed the extension of the ITC which benefits 476 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: the adoption of solar across America. And what I would 477 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: also say is the Inflation Reduction Act has benefited states 478 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: very broadly. In fact, a group of governors, Republican governors 479 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: just signed a letter saying that they really support the 480 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: you know, continuation of the benefits of the Inflation Reduction 481 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: Act because they're seeing jobs in their states, they're seeing 482 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: the kind of development that was expected with the Inflation 483 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: Reduction Act. So we're feeling that when you're doing something 484 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: that's benefiting Americans, the chances are those that represent Americans 485 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: are going to want to see those incentives continued. 486 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 6: Have you seen an uptick of Americans putting solar in 487 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 6: their homes, retrofitting their homes because of the Inflation Reduction 488 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 6: Act because of these subsidies. 489 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 4: One hundred percent. 490 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: I mean, what you're seeing is very much in the 491 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: space of low and moderate income, the energy communities, multifamily housing. 492 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: We are absolutely seeing that it opened up the total 493 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: addressable market and you're seeing it become affordable and accessible 494 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: to even more Americans. 495 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 4: You know, at the end of the. 496 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: Day, our customers are saving money on average, they are 497 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: again having a more energy and dependent, resilient way to 498 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: power their homes and their lives, and that is very powerful. 499 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: So hitting a million customers looks like just the beginning 500 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: from my perspective. 501 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 6: To Lisa's point though, about the supply chain, what is 502 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 6: sixty percent tariffs of imports it's coming from China or 503 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 6: ten percent from around the world. 504 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 4: What would that mean to your business? 505 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: You know, it wouldn't be a positive move in the 506 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: sense of the overall cost deack. But let's remember that 507 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: actually the panels are relatively when you look at the 508 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: total cost stack, they are actually a smaller percentage of 509 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: the pie. So it is something that we absolutely will 510 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: you know, address and work our way through if we 511 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: have to face that. You know, again, it wouldn't be 512 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: a positive for the industry, but we also look at 513 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: it as something that we've had to deal with in 514 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: the past. We find ways to navigate and move forward. 515 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: Can we finish where we started thirty four nuclear plants 516 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 2: over the next five years? How did you think we'll 517 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 2: actually build? 518 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 4: Maybe none? You know. 519 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,239 Speaker 1: So again, a huge part of why I felt it 520 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: was so important to embrace distributed generation as a utility 521 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: executive is I saw firsthand how hard it was to 522 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: build anything anywhere, and it's not getting easier. Actually, what's 523 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: happening happening is it's getting harder every single year, which 524 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: also means it's getting more expensive because there's even more 525 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: you have to do. So again, I was in a state. 526 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: I built the state's largest wind farm. It was not 527 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: large by energy standards and needs. It took four years 528 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: and a lot of a lot of time and money 529 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: to build it in a state that actually really embraced 530 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: renewable energy. So again, these solutions, these big solutions that 531 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: are needed, are very hard, very expensive, and in many 532 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: many cases, particularly in the world of transmission, they're still 533 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: talking about projects that they were talking about twenty years ago. 534 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to walk away from this conversation quite faithful. 535 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 2: So I give you the opportunity to have a correct 536 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 2: course if you want. If you say we need thirty 537 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 2: four new nuclear plants over the next five years to 538 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 2: meet this rising demand, but also say we might get none, 539 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 2: what kind of crisis could we see in this country. 540 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: Well, I think what we're going to continue to see 541 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: is we are going to see utilities come to the table, 542 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: for sure. But it is why I also really believe 543 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: that this customer led revolution to a more modern innovative. 544 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 4: Solution for the fill the gap jet. 545 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: You think so powerful, you know, when you think about it. 546 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: I mean, what we're doing now can power a city 547 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: the size of San Francisco for several hours of a day. 548 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: We are scaling at a level of, you know, in 549 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: solar terms, seven gigawatts a year, and we are installing 550 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: now storage in the context of a couple of gigawatt 551 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: hours a year. So as we scale and as America 552 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: leans into those kinds of innovative technologies one hundred percent, 553 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: they can have a very very powerful impact. 554 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 2: This feels like an ongun convers sanction, So no toubt 555 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 2: we'll catch up soon. Thanks for having us, Thank you 556 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 2: appreciate it. Mary Power there, a CEO of Sunrun. This 557 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 2: is the Bloomberg Sevenmants podcast, bringing you the best in markets, economics, anngiopolitics. 558 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 2: You can watch the show live on Bloomberg TV weekday 559 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: mornings from six am to nine am Eastern. Subscribe to 560 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 2: the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen, 561 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 2: and as always on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg 562 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 2: Business out 563 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 5: Mm hmm.