WEBVTT - Work in Progress: David Oyelowo 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:14.960 Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.520 back to Work in Progress. Friends. We are joined today 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:24.400 by a guest who's been here before, who absolutely moved me, 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:29.200 inspired me, got me so fired up about everything from 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.280 art to existence, and he's back today to do it again. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.720 We are joined by none other than David o'yelowo. He's 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.080 here to talk to us today about his new Apple 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:43.920 show Government Cheese, which is set in nineteen sixty nine 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.640 in the San Fernando Valley here in Los Angeles. The 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:51.440 series follows the Chambers family, an African American family living 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.480 here in the valley, and the chaos that arises after 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:59.120 burglar turned inventor Hampton Chambers, laid by mister o Yellowo 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:04.840 return from prison. David is an exceptional human and an 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.959 exceptional artist who you know from winning I mean so 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:10.880 many awards it would take me too long to list 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.080 them all, but who you also know from coming on 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.920 the show to share about his upbringing in London and Nigeria, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.840 his path to artistry, fatherhood and faith. And today we're 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.319 going to dive into what it really means to be 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.120 creating and to trust in where we're going as a 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:31.880 society any year. 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:32.240 Like this one. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:46.360 Let's dive in with David. Hi, David, I'm so happy. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.760 To see you in person this time. I know. 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.400 It's so nice to be off of zoom and sharing 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.120 a couch and also not on strike anymore. 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.360 Yeah, yeah, we can talk freely this time. I know 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.080 I was having to be very cady about it. I 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:01.560 think it was Bass Reeves back then. 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:02.440 Yeah. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:06.480 Yeah, it was an interesting time to interview you about 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:10.720 this beautiful project you'd made because we were technically also 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.560 not allowed to promote things. Yeah, and I remember feeling 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.240 a bit like we were playing mad libs, yeah, being like, 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:22.280 so the thing I know on the box looks cool, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:23.840 but I don't know. 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:25.960 I know we had to dance around it a bit. 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.239 But I you know, the reason I was so keen 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.840 to kind of talk to you again is actually, weirdly, 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.359 not being able to promote a project. Man, we got 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.440 to talk about such far reaching subjects and it was 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.239 it was actually cool to have just a really good conversation. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.520 It was so nice. It was fun when the team, 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:45.840 you know, we do the overviews every couple months of 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.720 Who's coming, and I was like, David's coming back. Yes, 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:50.840 and my whole team was like, we really feel like 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:52.720 the two of you bonded, I said, we did. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.040 I just love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, likewise, yeah is 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:57.160 your wonderful spirit? 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:01.080 Oh you too, my friend. So, as you know, normally, 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.360 when when we sit down with people, I really like 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.000 to go back and you know, talk about your childhood. 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.680 And you've shared those stories with us, you know, our 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:14.440 work in progress. Audience knows many beautiful details about your background. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.480 But you shared something with me just before we started recording, 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:23.400 which kind of feels like a I don't know, a 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.799 little energetic connection to that. You were talking about how 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.239 since we've last seen each other, now you've got two 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:30.360 kids out of the house. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:32.760 Yeah. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.720 Is it sort of surreal as a father, you know, 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.640 to look at these young people that you've raised and 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.200 see them kind of out in the world beginning to 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:47.480 figure out their own life and education and journey when 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.800 they're not coming home and you know, you don't get 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.440 to make sure they're safe and tucked into bed anymore. 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:57.440 Not only does it feel surreal, it feels both very 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.320 natural and also really unnatural all at the same time, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.240 which is a very discombobulating feeling. You know, the pandemic, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.560 as we all know, was an incredibly challenging time for 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.920 the world globally speaking, but there were some really beautiful 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.080 things that came out of that. I think for a 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.440 lot of people. Certainly that was the case for my family. 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.440 We were suddenly in the house together for a very 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.560 long period of time, and the thing we came to 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:29.640 discover is we really like each other. And it was 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.200 the kind of proximity to each other that we never 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:37.760 would have had without that kind of generational event. And 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.480 you know, my wife and I have four kids, three 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.960 boys and a girl, and we just became even closer 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:50.440 than we already were. And the extraordinary thing was, even 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.560 though community and friendships and family is a big thing 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.240 in our lives, it was a moment where we kind 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.960 of went, gosh, we are enough for each other. You know, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.400 we we were thankfully we were blessed with a lovely 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.719 property where we have a decent amount of space. We 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.000 had four dogs and six chickens and two parrots, and 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.880 you know, we sort of had this whole existence. But 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:18.120 it meant that that when the pandemic was over and 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:22.480 when life started gaining some kind of semblance of normal 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:29.279 normality again, we really missed each other when we weren't 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.920 in proximity to each other in the same way. So 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.799 to have had that and then suddenly we go from 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.640 six in the house to four in the house was 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:44.839 really difficult. I remember taking my because if my second 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.000 son left first, he's now at drama school in London. 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.719 He's in his second year now, and we were at 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:55.719 Lax dropping him off, and I was trying to be 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.640 very brave, and it was a real outer body experience 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.440 for me because one of my most stark memories is 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.839 the moment I was leaving home to go to the 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.480 exact same drama school at pretty much the same age 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:15.240 as Caleb, my second son, and it's the only time 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:19.520 I can remember seeing my mom sob with tears, and 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.760 it's an indelible memory of mine. And we were at 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.640 the airport and I was like, and I'm going to 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.159 be strong, you know, I don't. Let's not make this 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:33.880 about me, and my wife was taking him to London, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:39.120 so they turned a corner and the moment they were 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.920 out of sight, I made a sound I will not 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:48.440 replicate here because it's incredibly ugly, but out loud in 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.840 the airport, and my daughter was holding my hand. 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.800 She went, Dad, are you okay? And I was not okay. No, 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:57.360 I just was not okay. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:03.000 And it was three weeks of real devastation I felt. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.400 And my wife is sort of better at these things 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.120 than me, certainly when it comes to our kids. She 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.640 has a delayed reaction. I'm instantaneous. It's like right there. 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:17.240 So and then my eldest son thought, oh, well, my 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.040 younger brother's at the house. It's time for me to 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.800 leave as well. So in like but this was three months. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.120 You know, we were half empty nesters, as I like 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:30.800 to say. And yeah, but that's exactly what you're training 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.360 your kids, so you or you're cultivating your kids into 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.160 the ability to be able to leave and hopefully fend 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.840 for themselves and beg citizens and all that kind of stuff. 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:46.000 So that's the natural part. The unnatural part is just 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:50.119 how hollowed out I felt anyway, with them no longer 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:50.560 in the house. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.560 Yeah, I mean, their whole lives, they've been with you, 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.360 and you get used to the rhythm of your home 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.120 as a parent, and the sounds and the footsteps, and 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.720 you know, when they're little, their little heartbeats when they 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.080 fall asleep at night, I can't. I sort of can't 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.920 imagine it. But what an amazing thing that the in 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.160 I don't even know what the word is I'm looking for. 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.040 It's surreal, but it's also so real. Yes, that you 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.840 got to stand and know exactly how your mom felt, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.720 you know, you got to be in that moment you're 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.240 watching one of your sons go to the exact same school, 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:31.560 Like does it sort of take you back to when 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:33.440 and you did it and then also just feel like 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.240 a completely new journey at the same time. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:40.520 Well, it really typifies that we are part of this 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.920 cycle of life, this web that's been beautifully woven over 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:54.320 time generationally speaking, the fact that a school I went 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.080 to and I remember going to the London Academy of 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.520 Music and Dramatic Arts and being the only black student 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:07.480 in three hundred students, and my son is now there 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:13.440 with diversity as a real thing at that school and 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.600 he doesn't even have a thought about that. Like when 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:21.400 I tell him what I my situation was, he can't 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.640 get his head around it because it's just so antithetical 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.040 to what his is. And that's beautiful. It's beautiful to 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:34.520 see progression in a generation. But similarly, my dad did 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:36.320 not want me to be an actor at all. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.000 What did he call you a jester? 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:38.440 Yeah? 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.439 Exactly, exactly remember that? Or he said what do you 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:43.959 Why do you want to go and be a jester? 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.640 You know so, but that was it's that thing where 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.480 you cannot be what you cannot see, so to speak. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.400 And my dad couldn't see a path for me. My 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.720 son could see a path for him through me and 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.359 was able to take it for granted. So that's beautiful. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:06.760 That's something I just feel so proud of. And people 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.600 often ask me if I'm trepidacious about him becoming an actor, because, 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.360 as you know, it's a very very trepidacious profession. But 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.000 I can't be that way because it would be hypocritical, 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.360 bearing in mind my parents' attitude towards it. Thankfully, he's 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.000 very good. You know, I would have told him if 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.720 he wasn't. It's all subjective, but I definitely would have 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.160 done him that favor, and he's genuinely passionate about it, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.880 so you know, it's kind of a beautiful thing to witness. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:35.439 Do you. 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.559 As you prepared him to go off to drama school, 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.320 did you work with him? Did you give him any 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.440 sort of inside tips on how you get into a script? 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:45.280 How did you do that? 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.920 Yeah, I mean, you know, it's incredible. Kids absorb so 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.000 much more of what you do than what you say. 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.400 So it's extraordinary just how much just from watching me 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.640 prepare for a role, or how I research, or you know, 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.440 being on set with me. It's extraordinary how much he 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.640 had already internalized. But you know I did help him 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.240 with his audition pieces and things like that, and also 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.080 just with advice. You know, drama school is a very 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:23.920 vulnerable circumstance to find yourself in because often you're the 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:28.079 big fish in a little pond where you've come from, 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.240 and you're a tiny fish in this big pond. All 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:35.000 of a sudden, everyone there is talented. Everyone has gone 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:39.320 a journey to be accepted into this prestigious conservatoire, and 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.040 that in and of itself is quite discombobulating. But there 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.480 are syndromes. You know, the first year there's a stripping 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.600 away because you've picked up bad habits. Your body is 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.920 something that is being pushed, pulled and prodded in order 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:55.839 for it to be able to, as we call it, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.120 find your zero. You know, you need to be able 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.480 to play the Prince and the pauper. In order to 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.400 do that, you have to know what neutral is, and 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.280 so you're stripping away a bunch of stuff. You feel 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.760 incredibly vulnerable because everyone else in your class it feels 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.280 like they're better than you at being an actor, whether 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.760 it's dance or fight or accents or whatever. And he's 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.640 going at the age of eighteen nineteen, so you're still 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.880 forming as a person. So I was able to really, 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.880 through my own experience, talk to him about what he 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.360 to anticipate, so to speak, but also just to help 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.840 him realize that his journey is very different, is going 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.360 to be different than anyone else's journey. He actually didn't 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.240 want to go to Lambda because I had gone there, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:48.360 because he's very allergic to the idea of anyone thinking 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:53.040 of him as gaining anything because of who his dad 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.720 is or where his dad has been. But ultimately Lambda 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.080 was just the best of the schools, or he felt 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:00.640 it was the best of the school the audition that 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.640 But yeah, you know, that's been the joy is to now, 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.560 especially because now he's in his second year. We have 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.679 very in depth conversations about acting, and because he's so 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.079 he's drunk with it. In that way that I remember 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.679 being when I was his age. And that's a really 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:21.040 wonderful thing because I am a forever student of acting 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.319 and storytelling, and so to have those kind of conversations 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:25.920 with my own son is really beautiful. 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:31.839 That's beautiful. I think there's something there's something so beautiful 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.600 about being an artist because it is it is that 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:40.160 the potential at least of being able to remain an 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:45.520 eternal student, being able to be curious forever. And I 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.000 would imagine there's a there's kind of a purity of, 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.520 you know, a nineteen year old boy finding his way 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.920 and as you said, you're developing, your brain is still developing. 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.440 He's finding his voice and his art and then also 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.400 able to talk to his dad. It it must put 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.920 you to in this really interesting dance together. 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.200 Yeah, it's I can always feel the moment where he 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:14.079 pushes away because he wants to find his own way, 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:19.640 and the moments where he leans in because he recognizes 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.760 and appreciates he has a bit of a cheat code 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.320 in terms of having a dad who's experienced. 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.760 A lot of the specifics. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:30.520 Of what it is to be an actor, because it's 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:35.640 incredibly nerve wracking, especially what he's dealing with now in 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.520 the second year is you're already coming to the end 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.480 of your training, because the third year is you're now 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:45.640 doing shows, and those shows are where agents are coming, Producers, 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:54.960 directors are coming basically potential employers of yours, or people 0:14:55.040 --> 0:15:02.000 or facilitators of yours in terms of agents, and so. 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.520 There is no real way. 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.280 That a drama school can fully train you for what 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.720 it is to be a professional actor in terms of 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:08.520 the day to day. 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:09.080 Like, no. 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.320 One can teach you how you are going to react 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.880 to the shit amount of rejection that you will have 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:22.840 to endure, the financial insecurity that comes with that. How 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.480 do you deal with bad reviews? How do you deal 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.440 with doing eight shows a week? You know, when you've 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.960 been at drama school and you do three performances of 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:36.080 a show, Now you're professionally expected to turn up every 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.480 day at a certain amount of time, and no matter 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.640 whether you've had a cold, a bereavement, whatever it is, 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.480 you're expected to be on that stage at a certain 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:46.880 time and giving a performance that is worthy of the 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:48.880 money paid by the people who are coming to see 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.640 the show. Those are all things that you learn on 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.400 the job, even silly things I remember the first time 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.560 being on a movie set and seeing all these different 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.600 colored bits of tape on the floor, and I are 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:08.480 those I don't I know they're important, but I don't why. 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.520 And then I would see other actors walk up to 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.680 this colored tape and hit that mark perfectly without looking 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.920 down at it. That's something that I hadn't been taught 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.920 at drama school. I think they do that more now 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.600 at drama schools. They teach screen acting and the technicality 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.240 is of it. But you know, there was like such 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:34.200 a vulnerable making moment he has. I mean, I remember 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.760 the day, the moment actually when I thought, oh, I 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.240 think I think he's got the bug. And it was 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:47.040 on the set of Selma. He was playing my son 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:52.800 in it. There was no dialogue, and they'd set up 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.960 this scene. The camera was facing this dining table and 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.160 the chairs were all around the table. I watched my 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.840 son and he gosh, that was so. He probably was 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.680 seven eight something like that, maybe maybe maybe yeah, eight, 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.359 And he walked onto the set, looked at where the 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.040 camera was, and then found the chair that was. 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.680 Directly in line with the camera. 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.240 Sat in that chair, regardless of anyone else who is 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.680 going to be in the scene and just looked down 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.800 the barrel of the lens smiling, and I thought, oh, dear, 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:28.600 here we go. 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:29.080 Here we go. 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.440 And you know, he was sort of on a trajectory 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.360 to being an actor ever since, but he has been 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.880 on set, so for him, he knows what a mark 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.520 looks like. Yes, because he's he's been there. He's so 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.960 comfortable in that environment, which I think has given him 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.800 a leg up to speak in a good way. But again, 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.360 you know, talking about talking about these things with him 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:54.240 is a real joy for me. 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.399 Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors who make 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:07.000 the show possible. One of the things that excites me 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:11.960 about about it about for our friends at home Government Cheese, 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:18.600 is it's this world that is so delicious to step 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.600 into and look at, and all of these people is 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:26.639 quirky and hilarious. And there was a moment when I 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:31.679 first started watching you going what is it? What is 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.000 it about this show? And I like to watch them 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.920 before I you know, read the reviews. But then after 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.600 the first episode, I'm like, Okay, let me go read 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.080 all the articles you've been doing about it. And you 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:45.280 talked about how you've been in the time period before 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:51.080 and yes, how important the time period is to reflect 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.040 on truthfully, you know, our history matters to us. If 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:56.800 it didn't, they wouldn't be trying to ban all the 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.600 history books. But also how refreshing it is for you 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:05.119 as an to be in this period with no trauma, strife, 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.760 no civil rights fight, no, you just get to be 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:13.359 this family in this time and place. And I thought, 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.720 I think that's what it is. I haven't seen it 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:24.679 when it hasn't been historic with the real heaviness of 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.439 the history, and I was like, God, I'm having so 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.400 much fun watching you have fun. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:30.680 Right, right, right right. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:37.160 I mean, that's incredibly astute because one of the phrases 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.040 that has come up time and again from people who've 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.280 watched the show is I haven't seen anything quite like 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.719 it before. And I think that's to do with the tone. 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.560 That's to do with the characters, that's to do with 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.280 this black family in the San Fernando Valley in the sixties. 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:53.480 But I think that's also to do with how indelible 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:58.200 from an African American standpoint, the sixties are in relation 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:05.119 to strife, civil rights, racial unrest, trauma. And I have 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.840 been someone who's participated in projects that I am deeply 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.399 proud of that have showcased that very important part of 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:18.399 America's history. But that is not the totality of what 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.440 black people or people generally were experiencing in this country 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:27.080 at that time. And that's a product or a by 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:33.919 product of being marginalized. When you're marginalized, your story tends 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:40.639 to be told in very compartmentalized ways. So if you're Hispanic, 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:47.760 you are just constantly subjected to the narcos kind of 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.080 narrative or. 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:57.600 Being You're very rarely seeing. 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:01.760 Hispanic characters that are lawyers and doctors and presidents and 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.320 you know, captains of industry and who are aspirational. But 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.119 in a narrative, they will they will be the house 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.600 cleaner or the or the gardener or the whatever, which 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.160 is a part of that experience. It's not the totality 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.920 of that experience. If you're a woman, you're constantly objectified, 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:24.520 or you're friend, Yeah, you're the arm candy of the 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.200 you know, and that is part of the experience, it's 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.760 not the totality of the experience. If you're African American, 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.879 you're you're a criminal, you're a drug dealer, you're a slave, 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.320 you're whatever. You know that there are black people who 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.480 have been those things in American history and life. That 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:44.560 is not the totality. As someone of of African descent myself, 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.880 you know, it's it's the African despot, It's the flies 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.640 on the little baby's face. It's all of those tropes 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:56.280 and caricatures, which the more prevalent they become, the more 0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.720 oversized and out blown they are in people's minds as 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.800 the truth of what those people are experiencing. 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:09.040 Well, when the when the oppression becomes the identity, when 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:14.560 the suffering becomes the identity, you know, when when for 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:16.840 so long I remember hearing Naomi Watts talk about this 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.080 that you know, I don't even remember what the script was. 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.160 Just the thing she said rocked me when she said, oh, 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:25.880 this was the first script I'd read in however many 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.800 years of my early acting career where the woman I 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:30.879 was auditioning to play was not the victim of a 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:31.680 sexual assault. 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.520 Wow. And I was like, wow, Oh. 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:37.760 You know, because when you were trying to get a 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:39.959 role on TV or whatever the case of the week, 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:45.720 if you're a woman and it's that, it's that you stop, 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.720 you start to forget, not that it's not incredibly important 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:52.480 to always know our history, to tell those stories, to 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:56.040 not shy away from them or sanitize them or whitewash them. 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.880 But I think it's important also to understand how things 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.000 are sized in our kind of mind's eye. When you 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:05.280 look at the flat map of the world, why have 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:07.879 the America's been drawn so enormously and why has the 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:11.600 African continent been shrunken on the map. It's the human 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.840 version of that to me, where we've outsized the reality 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:18.960 of people's experiences. And you know, I think back to 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.879 years ago, you know, when Moonlight was nominated for everything. 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:28.040 I loved that movie, and I really love movies and 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:33.320 TV shows that allow my black friends and actors I 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.640 admire to shine and that don't have to be about trauma. 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:41.560 I like watching a group of women. You know, the 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:43.960 reason I think Sex in the City was so revolutionary 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.520 to women in my age range is because these were 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.760 four successful women meeting for lunch on breaks from their 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.960 high powered jobs and their busy lives, and they were 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:59.720 just crushing it as these women, and we were. 0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:00.800 Like, what what does this mean? 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:02.040 And you know, now we. 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:03.639 Look back and we're like, no, not all of that 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.040 age So well, but at the time it felt like 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:12.479 a shock. And it's important to see people, as you said, 0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:17.600 spread into other spaces of their totality. And I don't 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:20.600