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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress. Friends. We are joined today

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Speaker 1: by a guest who's been here before, who absolutely moved me,

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Speaker 1: inspired me, got me so fired up about everything from

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Speaker 1: art to existence, and he's back today to do it again.

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Speaker 1: We are joined by none other than David o'yelowo. He's

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Speaker 1: here to talk to us today about his new Apple

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Speaker 1: show Government Cheese, which is set in nineteen sixty nine

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Speaker 1: in the San Fernando Valley here in Los Angeles. The

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Speaker 1: series follows the Chambers family, an African American family living

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Speaker 1: here in the valley, and the chaos that arises after

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Speaker 1: burglar turned inventor Hampton Chambers, laid by mister o Yellowo

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Speaker 1: return from prison. David is an exceptional human and an

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Speaker 1: exceptional artist who you know from winning I mean so

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Speaker 1: many awards it would take me too long to list

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Speaker 1: them all, but who you also know from coming on

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Speaker 1: the show to share about his upbringing in London and Nigeria,

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Speaker 1: his path to artistry, fatherhood and faith. And today we're

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Speaker 1: going to dive into what it really means to be

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Speaker 1: creating and to trust in where we're going as a

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Speaker 1: society any year.

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Speaker 2: Like this one.

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Speaker 1: Let's dive in with David. Hi, David, I'm so happy.

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Speaker 2: To see you in person this time. I know.

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Speaker 1: It's so nice to be off of zoom and sharing

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Speaker 1: a couch and also not on strike anymore.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we can talk freely this time. I know

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Speaker 3: I was having to be very cady about it. I

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Speaker 3: think it was Bass Reeves back then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was an interesting time to interview you about

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Speaker 1: this beautiful project you'd made because we were technically also

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Speaker 1: not allowed to promote things. Yeah, and I remember feeling

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Speaker 1: a bit like we were playing mad libs, yeah, being like,

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Speaker 1: so the thing I know on the box looks cool,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I know we had to dance around it a bit.

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Speaker 3: But I you know, the reason I was so keen

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Speaker 3: to kind of talk to you again is actually, weirdly,

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Speaker 3: not being able to promote a project. Man, we got

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Speaker 3: to talk about such far reaching subjects and it was

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Speaker 3: it was actually cool to have just a really good conversation.

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Speaker 1: It was so nice. It was fun when the team,

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Speaker 1: you know, we do the overviews every couple months of

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Speaker 1: Who's coming, and I was like, David's coming back. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and my whole team was like, we really feel like

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Speaker 1: the two of you bonded, I said, we did.

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Speaker 2: I just love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, likewise, yeah is

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Speaker 2: your wonderful spirit?

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Speaker 1: Oh you too, my friend. So, as you know, normally,

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Speaker 1: when when we sit down with people, I really like

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Speaker 1: to go back and you know, talk about your childhood.

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Speaker 1: And you've shared those stories with us, you know, our

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Speaker 1: work in progress. Audience knows many beautiful details about your background.

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Speaker 1: But you shared something with me just before we started recording,

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Speaker 1: which kind of feels like a I don't know, a

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Speaker 1: little energetic connection to that. You were talking about how

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Speaker 1: since we've last seen each other, now you've got two

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Speaker 1: kids out of the house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is it sort of surreal as a father, you know,

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Speaker 1: to look at these young people that you've raised and

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Speaker 1: see them kind of out in the world beginning to

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Speaker 1: figure out their own life and education and journey when

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Speaker 1: they're not coming home and you know, you don't get

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Speaker 1: to make sure they're safe and tucked into bed anymore.

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Speaker 3: Not only does it feel surreal, it feels both very

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Speaker 3: natural and also really unnatural all at the same time,

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Speaker 3: which is a very discombobulating feeling. You know, the pandemic,

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Speaker 3: as we all know, was an incredibly challenging time for

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Speaker 3: the world globally speaking, but there were some really beautiful

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Speaker 3: things that came out of that. I think for a

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Speaker 3: lot of people. Certainly that was the case for my family.

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Speaker 3: We were suddenly in the house together for a very

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Speaker 3: long period of time, and the thing we came to

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Speaker 3: discover is we really like each other. And it was

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Speaker 3: the kind of proximity to each other that we never

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Speaker 3: would have had without that kind of generational event. And

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Speaker 3: you know, my wife and I have four kids, three

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Speaker 3: boys and a girl, and we just became even closer

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Speaker 3: than we already were. And the extraordinary thing was, even

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Speaker 3: though community and friendships and family is a big thing

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Speaker 3: in our lives, it was a moment where we kind

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Speaker 3: of went, gosh, we are enough for each other. You know,

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Speaker 3: we we were thankfully we were blessed with a lovely

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Speaker 3: property where we have a decent amount of space. We

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Speaker 3: had four dogs and six chickens and two parrots, and

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Speaker 3: you know, we sort of had this whole existence. But

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Speaker 3: it meant that that when the pandemic was over and

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Speaker 3: when life started gaining some kind of semblance of normal

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Speaker 3: normality again, we really missed each other when we weren't

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Speaker 3: in proximity to each other in the same way. So

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Speaker 3: to have had that and then suddenly we go from

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Speaker 3: six in the house to four in the house was

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Speaker 3: really difficult. I remember taking my because if my second

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Speaker 3: son left first, he's now at drama school in London.

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Speaker 3: He's in his second year now, and we were at

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Speaker 3: Lax dropping him off, and I was trying to be

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Speaker 3: very brave, and it was a real outer body experience

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Speaker 3: for me because one of my most stark memories is

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Speaker 3: the moment I was leaving home to go to the

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Speaker 3: exact same drama school at pretty much the same age

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Speaker 3: as Caleb, my second son, and it's the only time

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Speaker 3: I can remember seeing my mom sob with tears, and

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Speaker 3: it's an indelible memory of mine. And we were at

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Speaker 3: the airport and I was like, and I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be strong, you know, I don't. Let's not make this

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Speaker 3: about me, and my wife was taking him to London,

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Speaker 3: so they turned a corner and the moment they were

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Speaker 3: out of sight, I made a sound I will not

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Speaker 3: replicate here because it's incredibly ugly, but out loud in

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Speaker 3: the airport, and my daughter was holding my hand.

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Speaker 2: She went, Dad, are you okay? And I was not okay. No,

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Speaker 2: I just was not okay.

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Speaker 3: And it was three weeks of real devastation I felt.

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Speaker 3: And my wife is sort of better at these things

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Speaker 3: than me, certainly when it comes to our kids. She

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Speaker 3: has a delayed reaction. I'm instantaneous. It's like right there.

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Speaker 3: So and then my eldest son thought, oh, well, my

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Speaker 3: younger brother's at the house. It's time for me to

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Speaker 3: leave as well. So in like but this was three months.

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Speaker 3: You know, we were half empty nesters, as I like

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Speaker 3: to say. And yeah, but that's exactly what you're training

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Speaker 3: your kids, so you or you're cultivating your kids into

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Speaker 3: the ability to be able to leave and hopefully fend

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Speaker 3: for themselves and beg citizens and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So that's the natural part. The unnatural part is just

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Speaker 3: how hollowed out I felt anyway, with them no longer

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Speaker 3: in the house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, their whole lives, they've been with you,

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Speaker 1: and you get used to the rhythm of your home

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Speaker 1: as a parent, and the sounds and the footsteps, and

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Speaker 1: you know, when they're little, their little heartbeats when they

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Speaker 1: fall asleep at night, I can't. I sort of can't

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Speaker 1: imagine it. But what an amazing thing that the in

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what the word is I'm looking for.

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Speaker 1: It's surreal, but it's also so real. Yes, that you

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Speaker 1: got to stand and know exactly how your mom felt,

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Speaker 1: you know, you got to be in that moment you're

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Speaker 1: watching one of your sons go to the exact same school,

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Speaker 1: Like does it sort of take you back to when

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Speaker 1: and you did it and then also just feel like

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Speaker 1: a completely new journey at the same time.

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Speaker 3: Well, it really typifies that we are part of this

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Speaker 3: cycle of life, this web that's been beautifully woven over

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Speaker 3: time generationally speaking, the fact that a school I went

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Speaker 3: to and I remember going to the London Academy of

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Speaker 3: Music and Dramatic Arts and being the only black student

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Speaker 3: in three hundred students, and my son is now there

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Speaker 3: with diversity as a real thing at that school and

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Speaker 3: he doesn't even have a thought about that. Like when

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Speaker 3: I tell him what I my situation was, he can't

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Speaker 3: get his head around it because it's just so antithetical

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Speaker 3: to what his is. And that's beautiful. It's beautiful to

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Speaker 3: see progression in a generation. But similarly, my dad did

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Speaker 3: not want me to be an actor at all.

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Speaker 1: What did he call you a jester?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly remember that? Or he said what do you

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Speaker 3: Why do you want to go and be a jester?

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Speaker 3: You know so, but that was it's that thing where

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Speaker 3: you cannot be what you cannot see, so to speak.

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Speaker 3: And my dad couldn't see a path for me. My

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Speaker 3: son could see a path for him through me and

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Speaker 3: was able to take it for granted. So that's beautiful.

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Speaker 3: That's something I just feel so proud of. And people

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Speaker 3: often ask me if I'm trepidacious about him becoming an actor, because,

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Speaker 3: as you know, it's a very very trepidacious profession. But

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Speaker 3: I can't be that way because it would be hypocritical,

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Speaker 3: bearing in mind my parents' attitude towards it. Thankfully, he's

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Speaker 3: very good. You know, I would have told him if

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Speaker 3: he wasn't. It's all subjective, but I definitely would have

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Speaker 3: done him that favor, and he's genuinely passionate about it,

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Speaker 3: so you know, it's kind of a beautiful thing to witness.

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Speaker 3: Do you.

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Speaker 1: As you prepared him to go off to drama school,

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Speaker 1: did you work with him? Did you give him any

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Speaker 1: sort of inside tips on how you get into a script?

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Speaker 1: How did you do that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's incredible. Kids absorb so

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Speaker 3: much more of what you do than what you say.

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Speaker 3: So it's extraordinary just how much just from watching me

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Speaker 3: prepare for a role, or how I research, or you know,

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Speaker 3: being on set with me. It's extraordinary how much he

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Speaker 3: had already internalized. But you know I did help him

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Speaker 3: with his audition pieces and things like that, and also

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Speaker 3: just with advice. You know, drama school is a very

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Speaker 3: vulnerable circumstance to find yourself in because often you're the

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Speaker 3: big fish in a little pond where you've come from,

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Speaker 3: and you're a tiny fish in this big pond. All

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, everyone there is talented. Everyone has gone

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Speaker 3: a journey to be accepted into this prestigious conservatoire, and

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Speaker 3: that in and of itself is quite discombobulating. But there

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Speaker 3: are syndromes. You know, the first year there's a stripping

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Speaker 3: away because you've picked up bad habits. Your body is

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Speaker 3: something that is being pushed, pulled and prodded in order

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Speaker 3: for it to be able to, as we call it,

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Speaker 3: find your zero. You know, you need to be able

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Speaker 3: to play the Prince and the pauper. In order to

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Speaker 3: do that, you have to know what neutral is, and

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Speaker 3: so you're stripping away a bunch of stuff. You feel

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Speaker 3: incredibly vulnerable because everyone else in your class it feels

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Speaker 3: like they're better than you at being an actor, whether

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Speaker 3: it's dance or fight or accents or whatever. And he's

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Speaker 3: going at the age of eighteen nineteen, so you're still

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Speaker 3: forming as a person. So I was able to really,

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Speaker 3: through my own experience, talk to him about what he

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Speaker 3: to anticipate, so to speak, but also just to help

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Speaker 3: him realize that his journey is very different, is going

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Speaker 3: to be different than anyone else's journey. He actually didn't

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Speaker 3: want to go to Lambda because I had gone there,

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Speaker 3: because he's very allergic to the idea of anyone thinking

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Speaker 3: of him as gaining anything because of who his dad

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Speaker 3: is or where his dad has been. But ultimately Lambda

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Speaker 3: was just the best of the schools, or he felt

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Speaker 3: it was the best of the school the audition that

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Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, that's been the joy is to now,

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Speaker 3: especially because now he's in his second year. We have

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Speaker 3: very in depth conversations about acting, and because he's so

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Speaker 3: he's drunk with it. In that way that I remember

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Speaker 3: being when I was his age. And that's a really

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Speaker 3: wonderful thing because I am a forever student of acting

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Speaker 3: and storytelling, and so to have those kind of conversations

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Speaker 3: with my own son is really beautiful.

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Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I think there's something there's something so beautiful

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Speaker 1: about being an artist because it is it is that

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Speaker 1: the potential at least of being able to remain an

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Speaker 1: eternal student, being able to be curious forever. And I

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Speaker 1: would imagine there's a there's kind of a purity of,

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Speaker 1: you know, a nineteen year old boy finding his way

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Speaker 1: and as you said, you're developing, your brain is still developing.

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Speaker 1: He's finding his voice and his art and then also

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Speaker 1: able to talk to his dad. It it must put

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Speaker 1: you to in this really interesting dance together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I can always feel the moment where he

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Speaker 3: pushes away because he wants to find his own way,

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Speaker 3: and the moments where he leans in because he recognizes

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Speaker 3: and appreciates he has a bit of a cheat code

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Speaker 3: in terms of having a dad who's experienced.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the specifics.

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Speaker 3: Of what it is to be an actor, because it's

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Speaker 3: incredibly nerve wracking, especially what he's dealing with now in

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Speaker 3: the second year is you're already coming to the end

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Speaker 3: of your training, because the third year is you're now

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Speaker 3: doing shows, and those shows are where agents are coming, Producers,

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Speaker 3: directors are coming basically potential employers of yours, or people

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Speaker 3: or facilitators of yours in terms of agents, and so.

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Speaker 2: There is no real way.

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Speaker 3: That a drama school can fully train you for what

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Speaker 3: it is to be a professional actor in terms of

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Speaker 3: the day to day.

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Speaker 2: Like, no.

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Speaker 3: One can teach you how you are going to react

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Speaker 3: to the shit amount of rejection that you will have

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Speaker 3: to endure, the financial insecurity that comes with that. How

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Speaker 3: do you deal with bad reviews? How do you deal

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Speaker 3: with doing eight shows a week? You know, when you've

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Speaker 3: been at drama school and you do three performances of

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Speaker 3: a show, Now you're professionally expected to turn up every

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Speaker 3: day at a certain amount of time, and no matter

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Speaker 3: whether you've had a cold, a bereavement, whatever it is,

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Speaker 3: you're expected to be on that stage at a certain

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Speaker 3: time and giving a performance that is worthy of the

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Speaker 3: money paid by the people who are coming to see

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Speaker 3: the show. Those are all things that you learn on

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Speaker 3: the job, even silly things I remember the first time

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Speaker 3: being on a movie set and seeing all these different

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Speaker 3: colored bits of tape on the floor, and I are

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Speaker 3: those I don't I know they're important, but I don't why.

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Speaker 3: And then I would see other actors walk up to

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Speaker 3: this colored tape and hit that mark perfectly without looking

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Speaker 3: down at it. That's something that I hadn't been taught

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Speaker 3: at drama school. I think they do that more now

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Speaker 3: at drama schools. They teach screen acting and the technicality

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Speaker 3: is of it. But you know, there was like such

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Speaker 3: a vulnerable making moment he has. I mean, I remember

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Speaker 3: the day, the moment actually when I thought, oh, I

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Speaker 3: think I think he's got the bug. And it was

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Speaker 3: on the set of Selma. He was playing my son

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Speaker 3: in it. There was no dialogue, and they'd set up

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Speaker 3: this scene. The camera was facing this dining table and

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Speaker 3: the chairs were all around the table. I watched my

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Speaker 3: son and he gosh, that was so. He probably was

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Speaker 3: seven eight something like that, maybe maybe maybe yeah, eight,

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Speaker 3: And he walked onto the set, looked at where the

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Speaker 3: camera was, and then found the chair that was.

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Speaker 2: Directly in line with the camera.

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Speaker 3: Sat in that chair, regardless of anyone else who is

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Speaker 3: going to be in the scene and just looked down

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Speaker 3: the barrel of the lens smiling, and I thought, oh, dear,

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Speaker 3: here we go.

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Speaker 2: Here we go.

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Speaker 3: And you know, he was sort of on a trajectory

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Speaker 3: to being an actor ever since, but he has been

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Speaker 3: on set, so for him, he knows what a mark

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Speaker 3: looks like. Yes, because he's he's been there. He's so

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Speaker 3: comfortable in that environment, which I think has given him

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Speaker 3: a leg up to speak in a good way. But again,

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Speaker 3: you know, talking about talking about these things with him

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Speaker 3: is a real joy for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors who make

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Speaker 1: the show possible. One of the things that excites me

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Speaker 1: about about it about for our friends at home Government Cheese,

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Speaker 1: is it's this world that is so delicious to step

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Speaker 1: into and look at, and all of these people is

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Speaker 1: quirky and hilarious. And there was a moment when I

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Speaker 1: first started watching you going what is it? What is

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Speaker 1: it about this show? And I like to watch them

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Speaker 1: before I you know, read the reviews. But then after

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Speaker 1: the first episode, I'm like, Okay, let me go read

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Speaker 1: all the articles you've been doing about it. And you

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Speaker 1: talked about how you've been in the time period before

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Speaker 1: and yes, how important the time period is to reflect

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Speaker 1: on truthfully, you know, our history matters to us. If

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Speaker 1: it didn't, they wouldn't be trying to ban all the

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Speaker 1: history books. But also how refreshing it is for you

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Speaker 1: as an to be in this period with no trauma, strife,

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Speaker 1: no civil rights fight, no, you just get to be

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Speaker 1: this family in this time and place. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: I think that's what it is. I haven't seen it

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Speaker 1: when it hasn't been historic with the real heaviness of

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Speaker 1: the history, and I was like, God, I'm having so

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Speaker 1: much fun watching you have fun.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, right right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's incredibly astute because one of the phrases

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Speaker 3: that has come up time and again from people who've

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Speaker 3: watched the show is I haven't seen anything quite like

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Speaker 3: it before. And I think that's to do with the tone.

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Speaker 3: That's to do with the characters, that's to do with

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Speaker 3: this black family in the San Fernando Valley in the sixties.

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Speaker 3: But I think that's also to do with how indelible

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Speaker 3: from an African American standpoint, the sixties are in relation

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Speaker 3: to strife, civil rights, racial unrest, trauma. And I have

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Speaker 3: been someone who's participated in projects that I am deeply

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Speaker 3: proud of that have showcased that very important part of

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Speaker 3: America's history. But that is not the totality of what

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Speaker 3: black people or people generally were experiencing in this country

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Speaker 3: at that time. And that's a product or a by

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Speaker 3: product of being marginalized. When you're marginalized, your story tends

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Speaker 3: to be told in very compartmentalized ways. So if you're Hispanic,

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Speaker 3: you are just constantly subjected to the narcos kind of

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Speaker 3: narrative or.

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Speaker 2: Being You're very rarely seeing.

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Speaker 3: Hispanic characters that are lawyers and doctors and presidents and

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Speaker 3: you know, captains of industry and who are aspirational. But

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Speaker 3: in a narrative, they will they will be the house

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Speaker 3: cleaner or the or the gardener or the whatever, which

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Speaker 3: is a part of that experience. It's not the totality

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Speaker 3: of that experience. If you're a woman, you're constantly objectified,

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Speaker 3: or you're friend, Yeah, you're the arm candy of the

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Speaker 3: you know, and that is part of the experience, it's

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Speaker 3: not the totality of the experience. If you're African American,

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Speaker 3: you're you're a criminal, you're a drug dealer, you're a slave,

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Speaker 3: you're whatever. You know that there are black people who

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Speaker 3: have been those things in American history and life. That

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Speaker 3: is not the totality. As someone of of African descent myself,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's it's the African despot, It's the flies

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Speaker 3: on the little baby's face. It's all of those tropes

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Speaker 3: and caricatures, which the more prevalent they become, the more

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Speaker 3: oversized and out blown they are in people's minds as

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Speaker 3: the truth of what those people are experiencing.

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Speaker 1: Well, when the when the oppression becomes the identity, when

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Speaker 1: the suffering becomes the identity, you know, when when for

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Speaker 1: so long I remember hearing Naomi Watts talk about this

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Speaker 1: that you know, I don't even remember what the script was.

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Speaker 1: Just the thing she said rocked me when she said, oh,

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Speaker 1: this was the first script I'd read in however many

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Speaker 1: years of my early acting career where the woman I

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Speaker 1: was auditioning to play was not the victim of a

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Speaker 1: sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: Wow. And I was like, wow, Oh.

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Speaker 1: You know, because when you were trying to get a

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Speaker 1: role on TV or whatever the case of the week,

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Speaker 1: if you're a woman and it's that, it's that you stop,

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Speaker 1: you start to forget, not that it's not incredibly important

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Speaker 1: to always know our history, to tell those stories, to

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Speaker 1: not shy away from them or sanitize them or whitewash them.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's important also to understand how things

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Speaker 1: are sized in our kind of mind's eye. When you

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Speaker 1: look at the flat map of the world, why have

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Speaker 1: the America's been drawn so enormously and why has the

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Speaker 1: African continent been shrunken on the map. It's the human

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Speaker 1: version of that to me, where we've outsized the reality

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Speaker 1: of people's experiences. And you know, I think back to

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Speaker 1: years ago, you know, when Moonlight was nominated for everything.

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Speaker 1: I loved that movie, and I really love movies and

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Speaker 1: TV shows that allow my black friends and actors I

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Speaker 1: admire to shine and that don't have to be about trauma.

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Speaker 1: I like watching a group of women. You know, the

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Speaker 1: reason I think Sex in the City was so revolutionary

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Speaker 1: to women in my age range is because these were

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Speaker 1: four successful women meeting for lunch on breaks from their

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Speaker 1: high powered jobs and their busy lives, and they were

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Speaker 1: just crushing it as these women, and we were.

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Speaker 2: Like, what what does this mean?

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Speaker 4: And you know, now we.

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Speaker 1: Look back and we're like, no, not all of that

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Speaker 1: age So well, but at the time it felt like

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Speaker 1: a shock. And it's important to see people, as you said,

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Speaker 1: spread into other spaces of their totality. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think I would have necessarily put my finger on it

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Speaker 1: so quickly had I not read all the things you

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Speaker 1: said about it after I watched the first episode. But

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm that's it.

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Speaker 1: I don't get to see this a lot. And you

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Speaker 1: know the I mean, you know, wardrobe, the cars, the

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Speaker 1: set deck, it's like every department head on your show

409
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Speaker 1: deserves an award. It's so beautiful. But it must be

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it must be just like a different

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Speaker 1: kind of joyful to get to go and do that

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Speaker 1: that comedy in that time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you've hit on the word. It's joy.

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Speaker 3: It's joy to be able to celebrate character, a family,

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Speaker 3: a show that genuinely colors outside the lines. The quirk

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Speaker 3: factor is something that you know, you very rarely see

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Speaker 3: with a black family because there are so few at

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Speaker 3: bats for.

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Speaker 2: Us as a people group. And so.

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Speaker 3: The reality is you're constantly feeling the need to explain

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Speaker 3: your existence because you feel that, you know, if you're

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Speaker 3: writing a script and you have a character who does

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Speaker 3: something extraordinary, you feel the need for your first act

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Speaker 3: to be contextualizing who that person is. That by the

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Speaker 3: time they do the amazing thing, you go, oh, that

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Speaker 3: is amazing because they started here, and then they did this,

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Speaker 3: and then they did that, and then that happened, and

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Speaker 3: then there's the ending. Now, if you're a white male

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Speaker 3: actor storyteller, the cheekode you have is you have one

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Speaker 3: hundred and something years of cinema and television that has

431
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 3: given so much context to your existence and experience. That

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Speaker 3: means that you can get to the dramatic stuff very quickly.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: So when you see Robert de Niro and Taxi Driver,

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Speaker 3: you see Daniel day Lewis in There Will Be Blood,

436
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 3: or you see Joaquin Phoenix and Walk the Line, and

437
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: they're playing these anti heroes. Those are not heroes, the

438
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: anti heroes. Or when you watch the work of Martin

439
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 3: Scorsese and you see people doing bad staff but you

440
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 3: still go the journey with them. The reason you do

441
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 3: that is because you have context for who that people

442
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: group is, and so you are giving them the benefit

443
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: of the doubt when you're watching them going. But they're

444
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 3: a human beings, So let me invest in why they're

445
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: making those choices.

446
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: So would you say that context also gives you the

447
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: space to imagine their.

448
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 3: Redemption, absolutely, because you're used to that people group being

449
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: worthy of redemption. If primarily what you've seen of Hispanic

450
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 3: people is that they are domestic servants, or they're criminalized,

451
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 3: or they're a part of some drug cartel, there's a

452
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: part of your brain that is not disposed to their

453
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 3: redemption when they are central in a narrative. So when

454
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 3: you put them central in a narrative, you feel the

455
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: need to do more legwork to contextualize why you should

456
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: tether yourself to that protagonist, and that ladens down the story.

457
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 3: So there is literally, in my opinion, and a correlation

458
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 3: between what streaming has afforded and us having more of

459
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 3: these stories, because what happened in Hollywood is that for

460
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 3: many years there was network which did what network did,

461
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 3: which is to make sure that the advertisers were happy,

462
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 3: and so the storytelling was, in my opinion, fairly basic,

463
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 3: because you just want it to be the kind of

464
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 3: storytelling that you know, you go to make a cup

465
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 3: of tea, you grab a drink, doing the commercials or whatever,

466
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: or even better, still stay for the commercials. Let us

467
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 3: sell you the soft drinks and all that that stuff.

468
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 3: And so it was a sort of a transactional way

469
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 3: to watch a story, whereas film elevated, I've got to

470
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 3: get you out of the house. I've got to get

471
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: you into the movie theaters. So I've got to cultivate

472
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 3: movie stars that are rarefied in a way whereby you,

473
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 3: as the audience, go, that is an event. So I'm

474
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 3: going to leave my house. So who gets to be

475
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: an event, well, a certain demographic of person, and who

476
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 3: gets to select who is an event? A certain demographic

477
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: of person, who then dictates whether something gets the requisite

478
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: marketing and gets to be international. And so these are

479
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: all circumstances where people are using their own bias to

480
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: decide what is going to be culturally impactful.

481
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: Now, and then they tell you it's equated with value exactly.

482
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: Oh, and they are not even having to tell you that.

483
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: The billboard, the post suits, the marketing, the production value,

484
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: the budget attributed to the show or the film is

485
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 3: all telling you that. And the lack thereof for other

486
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 3: people groups is also telling you how they are valued

487
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: or not as well. But what streaming has done it

488
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: has come along and giving us data of who's actually

489
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 3: watching what. So I can clearly see an uptick in

490
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 3: representation on screen the projects I've been afforded the opportunity

491
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: to be a part of. I don't think bass Reefs

492
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: happens in a world before streaming. I don't think government

493
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 3: Cheese does either, because you now have data that's saying

494
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 3: people like these shows, and not just black people want

495
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 3: to see black stuff. You know, people when they see

496
00:29:54,680 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 3: humanity represented in a fun, dramatic, entertaining, thought provoking way,

497
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: they will tune in. Now when twelve guys in burbank

498
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: somewhere are just making all those decisions and deciding no,

499
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 3: they're not going to watch that, or they're not or

500
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: that that story doesn't have value, and we're all sort

501
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: of internalizing that lie that then becomes the cultural norm.

502
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: So how do you? I mean, listen, You've got to

503
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: do your thing as who you are as an artist,

504
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: as an individual. Then there is the beautiful you know,

505
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: partnership not only in your family but in your work

506
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: that you and your wife have. You know, your production company,

507
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: You've done this deal with Apple, which is where the

508
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: show comes from. You obviously understand it because you've done

509
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: this as talent, you've done this as a producer. You

510
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: have this hybrid world where you do it all at

511
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: the same time. How did this show come to be

512
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: in the first place, Like, because you do have the

513
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: day now, you do know there isn't a hypothetical. Well,

514
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: we don't know if the demo's going to like that.

515
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: I laugh.

516
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: I think about years ago when Nia, who's you know,

517
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: my best friend in my better half, when we started

518
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: our business, she would hear a lot of like, well,

519
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: you're not exactly the demo, And now we walk into

520
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: rooms and do panels and she's like, I'm a black

521
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: woman in my forties with expendable income, I'm exactly the demo.

522
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: And every panel she says it on the whole audience.

523
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: Goes crazy and it's like, my favorite moment of the day.

524
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: And so for us, even when we analyze how to

525
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: support women in the workplace, how to close the gender

526
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: lending gap in the world of finance, the data is

527
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: invaluable to us. Finance is hard enough, and a lot

528
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: of people say entertainment's harder. So for people at home

529
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: that are like, but then, how did you get on

530
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: the other side of it. How did you figure this out?

531
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: You know, how did you begin to say this is

532
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: my moment, this is time to pitch this show. Did

533
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: the show come to you? Did you go out and

534
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: find it?

535
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: Like?

536
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: How does it come to be that we're sitting here

537
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: in May of twenty twenty five talking about this show

538
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: that is on streaming, you know, showing people these other avenues, metrics, families, worlds.

539
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: It's a great, great question, and the primary element is tenacity.

540
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: This show came to me in twenty eighteen. End of

541
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen as a short film script. Paul Hunter sought

542
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: me out and said, I have this idea based on

543
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 3: my childhood growing up in the valley, and you're the

544
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: guy who I really want to do it with, and

545
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: it's to play a version of my dad. He was

546
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: in and out of prison, but he was this amazing guy.

547
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 3: He was an inventor, he was a visit And I

548
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 3: read the script and I hadn't read anything.

549
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: Like it before.

550
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: I was actually dissuaded by my manager at the time

551
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 3: from doing it because it's like, why do you want

552
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: to go and do this little thing? But I saw

553
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 3: something in it that was so unique and I thought, that,

554
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: to me is what artistry looks like. When I find

555
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: something that I haven't seen the likes of before, or

556
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: I find something that I think has a special quality,

557
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: that of course is what you're looking for. So you know,

558
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 3: I didn't have any expectations that it was going to

559
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: spin into a show. But we made this short film

560
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: over four days in early twenty nineteen, and that quirky,

561
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 3: unique quality that I felt on the page manifested in

562
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: what we shot, and that became a proof of concept

563
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: that we ended up taking to Apple and we spun

564
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: into a show, and that has been the mark of

565
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 3: a lot of the key elements in my career. It

566
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: was the same thing with how I got to work

567
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: with Ava Duvernet on Selma. It was sitting next to

568
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 3: a guy on a plane, him watching on his iPad

569
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: me in a show that I'd done back in the UK,

570
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: turning to me and saying, is this you I'm watching

571
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 3: on my iPad? I said yes. He goes is putting

572
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: money into movies a good idea? I said, well, give

573
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: me some context. He said, Well, this is lady called

574
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: aver Duna. She's doing a film called Middle of Nowhere.

575
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: She asked me for fifty thousand dollars towards her film.

576
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 3: I said, okay, let me read it.

577
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 2: I read it.

578
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 3: I thought this was fantastic. I said, not only am

579
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 3: I going to tell you to put money into that,

580
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: I'm calling this lady and asking her if I could

581
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 3: do her movie. Called her up, because you know, it

582
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: was the title, her name and her number was on

583
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,959
Speaker 3: the cover of the script. Called her up and she said,

584
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I cannot believe you're calling me about

585
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 3: You were on my list. But I was like, there's

586
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: no way you would ever do this. I said, this

587
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 3: is exactly the kind of film I grew up wanting

588
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: to be in because it feels like early Spike Lee.

589
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: To me, it feels like she's got to have it more,

590
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: better blues. It feels like like that. And that's how

591
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: it ended up doing that film for one hundred dollars

592
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 3: a day. Again, my reps at the time told me literally,

593
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: the phrase was, this is not the kind of movie

594
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 3: you want to be seen doing because it was a

595
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 3: smaller movie. W I was like, I beg to differ there,

596
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 3: and so that was a film I did with her.

597
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: We made it for two hundred thousand dollars all in,

598
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 3: but she ended up winning Best Director at Sundance for that,

599
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: and that gave me the tools I needed when we

600
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 3: were struggling to get Selma off the ground to say,

601
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 3: I found the lady to direct this movie. And that's

602
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 3: how Ava ended up directing Selma.

603
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 2: So the point being that how I.

604
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: Have been very blessed to be where I am now

605
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 3: is the projects that have been most meaningful to me

606
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: have taken an average of five to ten years to

607
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,479
Speaker 3: get off the ground. You know, Bastris was ten years,

608
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 3: Selma was seven years, Government Cheese was six years, The

609
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: United Kingdom was seven years. And it's all about going, Okay,

610
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 3: I belie leaving that and every single day I'm going

611
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 3: to do something to move the needle towards it coming

612
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 3: to fruition. And the entertainment industry is inherently fear based,

613
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: not faith based. And if you are able to go

614
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 3: into rooms with a degree of faith rooted in tenacity

615
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 3: and how much energy you have put into the project,

616
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: that's something people feel able to bank on. Yeah, because Okay,

617
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 3: if you believe in it that much, I'm skeptical about it.

618
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: You've done work that I respect. The combination of your

619
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 3: advocacy for it, the things I've seen you do, and

620
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: my slight trepidation about it, which is being offset by

621
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 3: your disposition, is the thing that's going to make me

622
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 3: lean towards you. And you know, Bastrie has got rejected

623
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 3: by the entire industry three times before it came to fruition.

624
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 3: I put on the Way I needed to play Doctor

625
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 3: King twice and had to then drop the weight because

626
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 3: the film didn't go. So you know, those are all

627
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 3: moments where you could have gone, you know what, I

628
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 3: just can't do this anymore. That's what it takes. It's tenasty.

629
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: I love that. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors.

630
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: When you talk about and you've said this a few times,

631
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: that the things that you produce or gifts to your

632
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: younger self, I think about that in terms of what

633
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: you said about representation, how different it was in your

634
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: class at Lambda versus how it is for your son.

635
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: I think about what it means to get to see

636
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: yourself and to know that your younger self is seen

637
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: in the work you do. And now I think about

638
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: how that tenacity, that self assuredness, in a way has

639
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: to be a gift to him too. Yes, to know

640
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: that that thing you were convinced of when you were

641
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: young and didn't have the proof but had the feeling

642
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: is true.

643
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that's cultural. The gift of that,

644
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 3: I think came from having about seven years in my

645
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 3: youth where we moved back to Nigeria, and just to

646
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 3: be in an environment where your marginalization, your anomalization is

647
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 3: not prevalent. Where you go, oh, everyone looks like me,

648
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 3: Every opportunity on offering this society is mine for the taking.

649
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 3: And to have that be something you're around enough for

650
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: it to become internalized mentally. Even though I now found

651
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: myself back in the UK now in America, in environments

652
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 3: where that is not necessarily the case being a black man,

653
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: but I've felt it in my body enough. I have

654
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: muscle memory. I have muscle memory of what it feels

655
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 3: like to walk into rooms and not have to explain

656
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 3: my existence or apologize my existence. And then what starts

657
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 3: to happen, or what happened for me, is that that

658
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 3: disposition started being rewarded with people leaning towards you. Because

659
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 3: you know, there's a phrase I use often which is

660
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: people treat your home the way you treat it and

661
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 3: people treat you the way you treat yourself to a

662
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 3: certain degree, and it's a quality that I recognize hugely

663
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 3: with Sydney Poitier, for instance. You know, there's no way

664
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: he's achieving what he achieved when he did, considering the

665
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 3: levels of racial discrimination that were going on in this

666
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 3: country at that time, if he's not in a disposition

667
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: that defies expectation, which has people kind of.

668
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 2: Going, Okay, I guess we'll give.

669
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 3: It to you, you know. And I think there is

670
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 3: a degree of that the way you move through the world.

671
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a generalization to a certain extent, but

672
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 3: it's my lived experience, so it is specific to me

673
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: that I know, those years living in Nigeria were formative

674
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: for me. And I will say this, it's something that

675
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: you know, you have to be careful about from a

676
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 3: generalization standpoint, but slavery in this country, one of the

677
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: things that it set out to do is to destroy

678
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 3: the the the agency, the power, the self esteem of

679
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 3: black people. It didn't succeed in doing those things, not totally,

680
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 3: but it certainly stimied those things. And that is an

681
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: active It is an active.

682
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: Means of engendering supremacy. You know.

683
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 3: The way you achieve supremacy is for everything you do

684
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 3: to suggest that you are supreme over the person you

685
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 3: want to subjugate, and so you have that disposition of supremacy,

686
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 3: and then you subject the person you're oppressing to feeling

687
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 3: lesser than and that's the way you gain control. And

688
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,959
Speaker 3: we see it even till this very day. The things

689
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 3: that are being attacked currently in this culture is all

690
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: about a certain section of society feeling like it has

691
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 3: power and supremacy over another.

692
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: I don't care how you reframe it, how you try

693
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: to excuse it. That's what it is.

694
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: Well, you can't reframe it or excuse it, because it's

695
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 1: simply true when you see a decorated general get fired

696
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: and replaced with an alcoholic from Fox News, right, Like,

697
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: what are we talking about?

698
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: Right?

699
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: Just what are we talking about?

700
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 3: But there's very very clever language that gets used to

701
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 3: excuse those things. There are very clever qualifiers, and systems

702
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: of oppression are becoming more and more sophisticated. Yes, and

703
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 3: you see that with slavery migrating into the prison industrial complex,

704
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 3: you know, so it's it's it's different phraseology you're you're

705
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 3: you're not a slave, You're a sharecropper, you know, And

706
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 3: and these are these are all things to be mindful of,

707
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 3: because the central thought is the same.

708
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: And when you really think about the fact that for

709
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: all of it requires a both and right, like a

710
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: willingness to hold dialectics, that many things can be true

711
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: at the same time. And I think about what for

712
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: me is sort of the seesaw of America, which is

713
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: some of the most exquisite ideals of any nation in

714
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: the world that we have often failed to achieve, and

715
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: some of the most horrific acts done in the building

716
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: of a nation with really incredible ideals, but that sought

717
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: them out at the time it was founded for very

718
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: few people, certainly not you and certainly not me. And

719
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: when you see the kind of cyclical violence of white supremacy,

720
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: you see the cyclical violence of patriarchy. It is not

721
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: lost on me that when you talk about what a

722
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: different world your son is experiencing, what a different world

723
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: I experience as a woman and a woman who is

724
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: a CEO of my life and all of the things,

725
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: the difference in my life to my mother's, the extreme

726
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: difference in my life to my grandmother's my grandmother who

727
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 1: was born in a stone farmhouse in the middle of

728
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: nowhere in Italy with no running water and no electricity.

729
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: Wow.

730
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: And I think about how so much of what fueled

731
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: the building of this country that was hidden, the history

732
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: they didn't want to teach, and they really don't want

733
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: to teach now, is that we used bodies as fuel,

734
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: largely black bodies. And by happenstance, the harm done by

735
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: the people doing that was also done to the women

736
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: who look like me, who unfortunately have often cozied up

737
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 1: to white supremacist patriarchy because they think it will protect them.

738
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: And I'm like, girly pops, it has nothing for you either.

739
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: Run.

740
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: And what's fascinating to me is the backlash we see,

741
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: the fact that you were no longer allowed to discriminate

742
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: against the best applicant, if that applicant were a woman,

743
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: if that applicant were a black man, and so on

744
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: down the line. No one wants to talk about the

745
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: fact that the greatest recipients of DEI in America are

746
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: white women. It is not lost on me that just

747
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: in a generation where we have certainly not achieved equity

748
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: to four hundred years of a power structure for white men,

749
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: but where we've gotten to pretty decent places as other groups.

750
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: The backlash is so crazy. They want to eradicate diverse

751
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: classes in colleges, They want to take away women's access

752
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: to birth control and healthcare.

753
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 2: And I just.

754
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 1: I wonder to what end? Because I also look around

755
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: and I know they don't have it the hardest. But

756
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: I also know white men in this try are killing

757
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: themselves at higher rates than anybody else. So I'm like, well,

758
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: clearly this isn't working for you either. I don't know.

759
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: I don't know where. I don't really know where we

760
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: go or what we do necessarily when the backlash to

761
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: even the illusion of more equitable power systems is so intense.

762
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you are on the outside of

763
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: it as a man of color, but also on the

764
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: inside of it as as a man as a patriarch?

765
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: Do you do you kind of have to figure out

766
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: how to hold all of these truths at the same time,

767
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: Because you strike me. I know we don't know each

768
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: other that well, but I do feel like we did

769
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: the energetic, like sparkly thing, and now we're connected.

770
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 2: In that way.

771
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: Like you strike me as a as a non toxic man.

772
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: Yes you are. You are I think a wonderful father,

773
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: a wonderful husband. You exemplify if a really what appears

774
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: to be healthy, kind patriarchal energy. I'm like, that's a

775
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: good dad.

776
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 2: That's my kind of guy.

777
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: So like, how do you I don't know, how do

778
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: you wrestle with all of this stuff? And also how

779
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: do you leave all this stuff at the door and

780
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: just find joy in the way you talk about with

781
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: your show? How do you do it all?

782
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 3: It's challenging. I don't feel on the periphery of it.

783
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 3: I feel very much in the center of it. But

784
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 3: the thing I know to be true is that foundations

785
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: are incredibly important. Foundations dictate what the building is, how

786
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 3: strong it's going to be, how integracy is going to be,

787
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 3: and whether anyone cares to admit it or not. The

788
00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 3: foundation the building blocks of America pretty gnarly. You stole

789
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: the country and then stole the people to build that country,

790
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 3: and that's foundational, regardless of the tenets and the philosophies

791
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 3: that came after that that, some of which are incredibly

792
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 3: beautiful around equity, around how to build a society, but

793
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 3: If the foundation is so compromised, if in the soil

794
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 3: is murder and pillage and rape and all of these

795
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 3: things that are also foundational to the creation of this country,

796
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 3: whether people care to admit it or not, which again

797
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: is why the history is being obfuscated, then the only

798
00:48:54,239 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 3: way to offset that truth is repentance is to go, oh,

799
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 3: I didn't commit those things, but my forefathers, who we

800
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: are lionizing in this country and celebrating and therefore suggesting

801
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 3: that they were above reproach, did perpetuate these things.

802
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: And then there are.

803
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 3: Descendants of people who are alive today who were the

804
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 3: victims of what those forefathers perpetuated. At some point there

805
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 3: has to be some kind of acceptance of the fact

806
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 3: that what we all get to enjoy is built on

807
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 3: an incredibly questionable foundation. And the only way you can

808
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 3: move forward from that in a healthy way is the

809
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 3: acceptance of that, the repentance on behalf of your forefathers

810
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 3: for that, in order that you can have a chance

811
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 3: to move forward better than that was.

812
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 4: And now, for our sponsors this week on Dear Chelsea

813
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 4: with me Chelsea Handler, Sophia Bush's here, tell me how

814
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 4: that feels to be a hot considered a hot lesbian.

815
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 1: Quite an honor. You know what's funny when you're actually

816
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: more fluid with your sexuality, the swing goes from nobody

817
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: gives a shit who you're sleeping with too. You better

818
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 1: identify exactly who you are so we can figure out

819
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: what name to call you. And it's like, is nobody

820
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: been paying attention to like all the hot girls I've

821
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: been kissing on camera? Hi, I've always been here.

822
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 4: Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts

823
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts.

824
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: Listen, these are the times, right, you've had like the

825
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: most hopeful and happy sections of the discussion, and we

826
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: have to have the heavy and the real because that's life. Yeah,

827
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: as you try to balance all of it for yourself

828
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: and you mentioned earlier to be in joy in the

829
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: work that you make, you have it with your family?

830
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: How do you do it? How do you balance? Are

831
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 1: there practices you have not just as you know David

832
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: the performer, but as David the man? What are your

833
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: practices for keeping your sort of sphere space joyful?

834
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: Well? I count my blessings and you know a.

835
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 3: Huge part of that is my wife my kids, my health,

836
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 3: I get to do for work that which I love

837
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 3: and would probably do for free.

838
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 2: Don't tell Apple and never never for free.

839
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: A raise in season two.

840
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 3: But it's that, it's that it's counting my blessings. My

841
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 3: faith is a huge component of my life personally. But

842
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 3: you know, my wife and I have a two week rule.

843
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 3: Were never apart for more than two weeks. So yeah,

844
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 3: so no matter where I am in the world, like

845
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 3: we we recently, so she had to be so she

846
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 3: had to be in Hawaii for a retreat, and then

847
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 3: I was going to Katar to set up a film,

848
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 3: and then I had to be in London. And this

849
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 3: meant that we were going to go over by fourteen hours. No,

850
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 3: fourteen days. No, we weren't going to go over. We

851
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 3: were going to be apart for fourteen days, in like

852
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 3: six hours or something like that.

853
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: And it was the.

854
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 3: Assistance phones were blown up, right, Okay, so I am

855
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 3: going to I have to take her to the airport

856
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 3: at this time that you have to change my flight

857
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 3: because we can't. Oh no, we're still an hour over.

858
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 3: We're still at an hour no, because we went over

859
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 3: by eleven hours once and I can't.

860
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 2: I can't do it.

861
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 3: It's for me like a once I commit to something,

862
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 3: that is it. Yeah, And you know, I've been married

863
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 3: for twenty six years now.

864
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: So it's working.

865
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: It's working. But honestly it is.

866
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 3: It can sound a little cheesy, it can even sound

867
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 3: like it's work, but love is something you work out.

868
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:23,919
Speaker 2: Yes.

869
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 3: And when I talk about counting your blessings, it's going

870
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 3: I have someone I want to be back in proximity.

871
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 2: Of no, like yeah, no more than you're really in

872
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 2: trouble after like two days.

873
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 3: So so the point being, and we worked it out

874
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 3: and we were well within the fourteen days at the.

875
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: End of the day.

876
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: But it's it's it's the small things actually, you know.

877
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 1: But what that says to me is also it's promise

878
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: is made, promises kept. Yes, love is something you work at.

879
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

880
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: And I think if you wake up in your life

881
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: and you realize you quote have love.

882
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, No one's working at yeah.

883
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 1: Then you don't have love. Then you have a business

884
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: partner or a roommate or whatever. And so even the

885
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: fact that after twenty six years you two are like

886
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: hold on six hours too many for me, I'm tickled

887
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 1: by that because what it is to me, is that

888
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: the promise is so important. Yeah, it's not just the

889
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: rhythm you keep, it's that you commit to keeping the

890
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 1: rhythm correct.

891
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 3: It's beautiful, right, Thank you, thank you? And you know,

892
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 3: and I have kids who are healthy and who love

893
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 3: mommy and daddy and like being in proximity of them.

894
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 3: You know, I've seen what I've been around, great wealth,

895
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 3: I've been around great fame. I've been around the things

896
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 3: that people truly seem to value or aspire to. I'm

897
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 3: telling you right now for anyone listening who thinks that

898
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 3: there is something out there in those realms that is

899
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,720
Speaker 3: going to transcend. If you have someone you like curling

900
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 3: up on a couch with, and you have food in

901
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 3: your stomach, and you are happy and keen to be

902
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 3: in proximity of people who maybe your kids, maybe your spouse,

903
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,959
Speaker 3: maybe your family, maybe your friend, and the notion of

904
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 3: not having to talk to each other and yet be

905
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 3: comfortable around each other is yours. You have heaven on earth, Yeah,

906
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 3: because you're not having to work to be safe, to

907
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 3: feel loved, to love, to touch to you know.

908
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 2: All of those things. Nothing.

909
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 3: There is no place. I've been to so many places

910
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 3: in the world. There's no place I feel more like

911
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 3: I'm in a heaven on Earth situation than curled up

912
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 3: on my couch with my kids, with my wife, maybe

913
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 3: watching movie, maybe we're just all laughing at each other,

914
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 3: whatever it is. That's as good as it gets here

915
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 3: on earth. Guys. That's as good as it gets. And

916
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 3: it's not to do with the couch. It's not to

917
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 3: do with the movie. It's to do with the people. Yeah,

918
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 3: and that you want to be in proximity of those people.

919
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 3: And so those are the blessings I count amongst other things,

920
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 3: and that's where my joy comes from. And the reality

921
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 3: is those things are finite. You know, I've lost both

922
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 3: my parents. I know that these things are finite, and

923
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 3: so every day you have them, they are to be

924
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 3: embraced with a veracity that is just you know, every

925
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 3: ounce of energy within you.

926
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: It's beautiful and it's a lovely reminder to focus on

927
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: the right things. Yeah, it seems that you're so practiced

928
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: at it. That's a muscle that you work. That gratitude.

929
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

930
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: Does it Does it feel like something that will always

931
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: be your work in progress? Or is or is that

932
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: something else? Is it a project? An idea.

933
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 3: It will always be a work in progress because you

934
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 3: don't know what's going to come along to upend it.

935
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 3: You know, when I lost my mom, that was that

936
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 3: took my peace for years. You know, she had a

937
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 3: brain aneurysm and she was in a vegetative state for

938
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 3: three years. And I'm the eldest son, and I felt

939
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 3: the need to sort of look after my brothers and

940
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 3: my dad, and I didn't do grieving particularly healthily. I

941
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 3: sort of tried to push it away, and so I

942
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 3: am still a work in progress when it comes to that,

943
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 3: just just forgiving myself for things that I probably don't

944
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 3: need to forgive myself for in relation to.

945
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 2: My Oh oh gosh, maybe.

946
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 3: I should have been there to make sure she was

947
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 3: taking the high blood pressure medicine or all the things

948
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 3: you know that that are tied to love. You know,

949
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 3: how much you miss someone is relative to how much

950
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 3: you loved them, So that's kind of healthy. But also

951
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 3: if you're if you're crippled by that feeling, that's unhealthy.

952
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 3: So that's that's a working progress. All of it is

953
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 3: a work in progress. I think that's the gift of life.

954
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 3: I think you know you're given this project which is

955
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 3: your life. And you know you're I'm never going to

956
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 3: be the totality of the actor I aspire to be,

957
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 3: or the father I aspire to be, or the husband

958
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 3: that I aspire to be, or the human being, because

959
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 3: fallibility is what is by definition, what makes you a

960
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 3: human being. And so but the journey of that is

961
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 3: it was where the excitement lies and the days where

962
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 3: oh gosh, I think I was a pretty good father today,

963
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 3: and then most days, oh gosh, I didn't think I

964
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 3: was a very good dad today, you know. So I

965
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 3: to be alive is to be in a work in

966
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 3: progress circumstance, and I like being alive. So being being,

967
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 3: being a work in progress is indicative that we're still here.

968
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: I love it.

969
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing all of your wisdom and heart

970
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: with us again today.

971
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 2: Thank you. I always love speaking to me too,