WEBVTT - RERUN Hell and Gone Murder Line: Barbara Bryan 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:47.921 School of Humans. 0:00:49.241 --> 0:00:53.000 Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.200 an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come 0:00:56.241 --> 0:01:00.121 forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated 0:01:00.121 --> 0:01:03.761 by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and 0:01:03.801 --> 0:01:07.720 community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and 0:01:07.761 --> 0:01:11.560 point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.800 We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.080 guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.080 is intended to state or imply that anyone who has 0:01:22.161 --> 0:01:25.601 not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing. 0:01:26.241 --> 0:01:28.121 Thanks for listening. 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.481 On Friday, December twelfth, nineteen eighty, at approximately six forty 0:01:33.481 --> 0:01:36.680 five in the morning, the Mississippi County Sheriff's Department got 0:01:36.721 --> 0:01:39.481 a call about a female body lying on the side 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.200 of the road. The location of the body was on 0:01:43.281 --> 0:01:46.360 Highway one't eight one, just south of Highway one fifty eight. 0:01:47.921 --> 0:01:51.201 The caller was a man named Arbora dal Watkins who 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:52.921 lived nearby in Manila, Arkansas. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:55.121 He told police he had. 0:01:55.001 --> 0:01:57.081 Been en route to his job at the brown shoe 0:01:57.081 --> 0:02:00.161 factory in Osceola when he turned south on the highway 0:02:00.561 --> 0:02:02.921 and saw the body lying in the edge of a ditch. 0:02:03.641 --> 0:02:06.880 He went to a nearby business, the Reese Wholesale Furniture Outlet, 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.560 in contacted the Arkansas State Police in Jonesborough, who then 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.641 called the Mississippi County Sheriff's Office because the body was 0:02:13.641 --> 0:02:18.281 in their jurisdiction. Officer Richard Nash from the Mississippi County 0:02:18.321 --> 0:02:20.241 Sheriff's Department arrived at the scene at. 0:02:20.161 --> 0:02:23.521 Six fifty six am. He came to meet. 0:02:23.361 --> 0:02:26.481 The guy who had called police and to start processing 0:02:26.481 --> 0:02:29.680 the crime scene. The woman was dressed in a striped 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:33.441 red colored dress and velveteen jacket. She was five foot five. 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.280 She weighed around one hundred and fifteen pounds. The woman 0:02:37.441 --> 0:02:40.201 was carrying a reddish brown clutch bag under her right arm. 0:02:40.761 --> 0:02:43.241 Detectives were able to go into that bag and find 0:02:43.281 --> 0:02:47.041 her ID. That's when they knew who this woman was. 0:02:48.441 --> 0:02:51.361 Barbara and Bryan, a thirty year old mother of two 0:02:51.601 --> 0:02:55.641 from a Pontou, Arkansas. It was not hard to figure 0:02:55.641 --> 0:02:59.281 out the cause of death. Barbara had massive holes blown 0:02:59.321 --> 0:03:02.921 into her body by a shotgun. The shots were so 0:03:03.121 --> 0:03:06.641 violent that pieces of her hair and skull were found 0:03:06.761 --> 0:03:12.721 twenty feet away. So once again in rural Arkansas, we 0:03:12.841 --> 0:03:15.001 have a woman whose body was found in a ditch 0:03:15.041 --> 0:03:18.121 near a highway and her car was found several miles 0:03:18.161 --> 0:03:22.161 down the road. And just like in Amanda Tussing's case, 0:03:22.761 --> 0:03:26.121 which we discussed last week, there were suspicions that a 0:03:26.161 --> 0:03:31.441 police officer may have been involved, and Barbara's murder is 0:03:31.481 --> 0:03:37.561 also still unsolved. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five 0:03:37.641 --> 0:03:40.681 years of making my true crime podcast, Helling Gone, I 0:03:40.721 --> 0:03:42.761 have learned that there is no such thing as a 0:03:42.801 --> 0:03:46.681 small town where never happens. I have received hundreds of 0:03:46.681 --> 0:03:50.241 messages from people all around the country asking for help 0:03:50.281 --> 0:03:53.641 with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and 0:03:53.681 --> 0:03:56.441 their communities. If you have a case you'd like me 0:03:56.481 --> 0:03:58.721 and my team to look into, you can reach out 0:03:58.761 --> 0:04:01.041 to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six 0:04:01.121 --> 0:04:05.241 seven eight seven four four six one four five. That's 0:04:05.281 --> 0:04:08.921 six seven eight seven four four, six one four or five. 0:04:09.961 --> 0:05:01.361 This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Police had responded to 0:05:01.401 --> 0:05:04.161 a murder scene along the shoulder of the road. From 0:05:04.201 --> 0:05:08.201 there things happened fast. The county corner was contacted at 0:05:08.201 --> 0:05:12.041 seven fifteen am arrangements were made to move Barber's body 0:05:12.081 --> 0:05:15.321 so that it could be tested. At seven twenty one am, 0:05:15.521 --> 0:05:18.961 Sergeant J. C. Brewer arrived on the scene. He noted 0:05:18.961 --> 0:05:22.320 the position of Barber's body. It was facing the west 0:05:22.361 --> 0:05:27.361 side of the road shoulder, her feet were facing the highway. 0:05:27.481 --> 0:05:30.601 She had what appeared to be a large shotgun wound 0:05:30.641 --> 0:05:33.561 to the chest and part of her left hand had 0:05:33.601 --> 0:05:38.401 been shot off. They found casings and shotgun shells scattered around. 0:05:38.801 --> 0:05:43.320 They also found buckshot, the casing from Barbara's watch, and 0:05:43.321 --> 0:05:45.921 some her parts of the watch were found several feet 0:05:45.921 --> 0:05:49.561 away from the body as well. In all, police found 0:05:49.681 --> 0:05:53.520 five shotgun shells and powder dividers, and two separate locks 0:05:53.521 --> 0:05:57.241 of blonde hair. All of the hairs they found were 0:05:57.361 --> 0:06:01.841 positively identified as Barbara's. Barbara had a large bloodstain and 0:06:01.921 --> 0:06:05.601 brain material under her head. It was obvious that these 0:06:05.641 --> 0:06:10.081 were catastrophic injuries. Police also noticed something else. They noticed 0:06:10.081 --> 0:06:13.241 a ring. It had a black center mounting with eight 0:06:13.361 --> 0:06:17.601 surrounding clear settings. The interesting thing about the ring was 0:06:17.601 --> 0:06:20.041 that it appeared to investigators that it had been cut 0:06:20.081 --> 0:06:23.841 into and peeled open. From the way they describe it, 0:06:23.841 --> 0:06:26.801 it's not totally clear, but it seems like someone used 0:06:26.801 --> 0:06:29.321 a tool or something to try and remove the ring 0:06:29.401 --> 0:06:32.321 from Barbara's finger, and in the end they couldn't do it. 0:06:33.081 --> 0:06:35.241 I can't be sure because the way the report is 0:06:35.281 --> 0:06:38.561 worded is slightly odd. In my opinion, it makes it 0:06:38.601 --> 0:06:41.801 sound like the center stone may have been missing. Now, 0:06:41.841 --> 0:06:45.161 this would be very interesting because that ring was on 0:06:45.521 --> 0:06:48.641 Barbara's ring finger, the fourth finger of her left hand, 0:06:49.161 --> 0:06:52.561 the finger that's traditionally used for engagement rings and wedding bands. 0:06:53.681 --> 0:06:55.961 The body was taken to the Chickisa Album Morgue at 0:06:56.001 --> 0:06:59.601 the request of the coroner, and then the investigation continued. 0:07:00.521 --> 0:07:03.801 Investigators figured out Barbara had been shot at least twice, 0:07:04.081 --> 0:07:07.721 possibly with a twelve or sixteen gage shotgun, the type 0:07:07.761 --> 0:07:11.841 of shotguns that are used for hunting. Both of these 0:07:11.921 --> 0:07:14.521 gun sizes, by the way, are used for hunting deer 0:07:14.761 --> 0:07:17.521 and for hunting other types of game. The twelve gage 0:07:17.561 --> 0:07:21.601 is slightly larger, but both of these weapons packed serious firepower. 0:07:23.121 --> 0:07:26.401 Barbara was shot at least twice at very close range. 0:07:26.801 --> 0:07:28.281 From the position that she was in. 0:07:28.721 --> 0:07:31.041 It seemed as though she was shot in the chest 0:07:31.241 --> 0:07:35.321 from behind on the left side. This severely damaged her 0:07:35.361 --> 0:07:38.921 lungs and would have been fatal. Then she was shot again. 0:07:39.761 --> 0:07:42.321 From the description of the autopsy report of the powder 0:07:42.361 --> 0:07:45.321 burns on Barbara's hands and the fact that part of 0:07:45.361 --> 0:07:48.161 her left hand was missing, it seems as though she 0:07:48.201 --> 0:07:50.601 may have had her hand near her neck when she 0:07:50.721 --> 0:07:55.241 was shot. The state medical examiner Dan Cook did find 0:07:55.361 --> 0:07:58.681 more wounds on Barber's head, but he said that they 0:07:58.721 --> 0:08:01.721 were most likely the result of the shotgun pellets rather 0:08:01.761 --> 0:08:02.641 than direct shots. 0:08:04.321 --> 0:08:08.361 So when people go hunting deer or other animals, they often. 0:08:08.081 --> 0:08:10.841 Do it with buckshot. That's literally what the ammunition is 0:08:10.921 --> 0:08:13.921 named for. The male deer, the buck. There are several 0:08:14.001 --> 0:08:17.081 large pellets that are packed into a shotgun shell. Now. 0:08:17.081 --> 0:08:21.801 According to Field and Stream, buckshot is ideal for quote 0:08:22.161 --> 0:08:26.521 close ranges inside fifty yards. Buckshot is lethal on thin 0:08:26.561 --> 0:08:30.721 skin targets from bobcats to coyotes, to leopards to people. 0:08:31.201 --> 0:08:33.721 End quote. 0:08:33.761 --> 0:08:37.681 When you use a shotgun and buckshot, it comes out 0:08:37.721 --> 0:08:41.801 in a burst rather than a single shot. Forensic testing 0:08:41.841 --> 0:08:44.841 determined that the bullets had entered Barbara's left shoulder at 0:08:44.841 --> 0:08:48.961 a forty five degree angle, so it would be reasonable 0:08:49.401 --> 0:08:53.560 for police to consider the possibility Barbara knew her killer. 0:08:53.841 --> 0:08:55.401 She was standing there talking to them. 0:08:56.081 --> 0:08:59.401 Then she might have turned around to walk away before 0:08:59.641 --> 0:09:04.361 her killer shot her. Remember, she had her purse under 0:09:04.401 --> 0:09:09.441 her right arm. Police found a chalky white substance on 0:09:09.441 --> 0:09:12.641 the front of Barbara's dress, just below her breast. They 0:09:12.680 --> 0:09:15.801 never really explained what that was. Now, this is just 0:09:15.841 --> 0:09:18.401 a guest since I'm not a gun expert. I do 0:09:18.601 --> 0:09:23.401 know they use buffering powder inside shotgun shells made of polyethylene. 0:09:22.881 --> 0:09:24.321 So that might have been what it was. 0:09:24.921 --> 0:09:27.761 It could have been something totally different, like a deodorant stain, 0:09:27.841 --> 0:09:31.401 for example, So I can't say for sure, but a 0:09:31.401 --> 0:09:33.881 buffer powder is more likely in my opinion, because the 0:09:33.881 --> 0:09:37.521 medical report did point out one of Barbara's wounds had 0:09:37.561 --> 0:09:41.801 powder burnt. What this means is that Barbara's killer shot 0:09:41.841 --> 0:09:46.561 her at very close range. The autopsy also mentioned Barbara 0:09:46.641 --> 0:09:49.201 was not wearing underwear. Now, this could have been a 0:09:49.241 --> 0:09:52.801 fashion choice, but we also have to consider the possibility 0:09:52.841 --> 0:09:55.881 that it might have been removed, possibly by the killer, 0:09:56.481 --> 0:09:59.481 maybe in an attempt to camouflage DNA if the killer 0:09:59.521 --> 0:10:03.001 had any type of sexual encounter with her, either consensual 0:10:03.121 --> 0:10:07.681 or not, before her murder. There were two shots fired, 0:10:08.001 --> 0:10:10.441 so It seems as though either Barbara's killer shot her 0:10:10.481 --> 0:10:13.121 in the back and then turned her over and shot her, 0:10:13.721 --> 0:10:17.001 or shot her and then fired the fatal shot as 0:10:17.001 --> 0:10:20.201 she tried to run away. Either way, this was an 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.401 execution and it was brutal and judging by the way 0:10:23.441 --> 0:10:25.841 that her killer tried to wrench the ring from her finger, 0:10:26.441 --> 0:10:36.281 this was very personal. Barbara Brian's murder happened in the 0:10:36.321 --> 0:10:39.641 same general area as the murder of Amanda Tussing, the 0:10:39.681 --> 0:10:43.721 case that we discussed in a previous episode. As we mentioned, 0:10:44.241 --> 0:10:47.121 Amanda Tussing was making a forty mile drive from her fiance, 0:10:47.321 --> 0:10:51.321 Matt Irvin's home in Jonesboro to her parents house in Dell, Arkansas. 0:10:51.921 --> 0:10:54.641 It was raining hard that night and Amanda never made 0:10:54.641 --> 0:10:58.281 it home. Her car was found part just off Highway 0:10:58.321 --> 0:11:02.121 eighteen near Monette. Her body was found days later in 0:11:02.161 --> 0:11:06.160 a ditch near Lake City. Like Barbara's, Amanda's murder is 0:11:06.201 --> 0:11:09.681 still unsolved, and even though the causes of death are different, 0:11:10.041 --> 0:11:13.321 Amanda may have been strangled and there were no gunshots involved, 0:11:13.641 --> 0:11:18.081 while Barbara was very obviously fatally shot, there are some similarities. 0:11:18.681 --> 0:11:21.721 Both women were petite, both of their bodies were recovered 0:11:21.761 --> 0:11:25.481 miles away from their cars, and both bodies were found 0:11:25.521 --> 0:11:28.841 in locations that made investigators believe the killer had to 0:11:28.881 --> 0:11:31.761 have a lot of local knowledge. A lot of people 0:11:31.761 --> 0:11:33.641 in this neck of the woods have connected Barbara and 0:11:33.681 --> 0:11:35.040 Amanda's cases over the years. 0:11:35.841 --> 0:11:37.041 One of the reasons why I was. 0:11:37.041 --> 0:11:40.161 So fascinated by this case is because while there is 0:11:40.201 --> 0:11:43.441 a ton of information about Amanda Tossing, there is very 0:11:43.441 --> 0:11:46.561 little information out there about the life of Barbara and 0:11:46.921 --> 0:11:50.201 Armstrong Brian. What we do know is that she was 0:11:50.241 --> 0:11:55.040 born in Caraway, Arkansas, in Craighead County, to Fleming's Skinny 0:11:55.161 --> 0:11:56.601 Armstrong and Agnes Armstrong. 0:11:57.561 --> 0:12:00.481 Barbara's dad, Skinny, was a farmer. She grew up in a. 0:12:00.441 --> 0:12:03.321 Baptist's household, like a lot of other kids in that region. 0:12:04.641 --> 0:12:08.161 She had a brother named Gary, and again, very much 0:12:08.241 --> 0:12:11.841 like in Amanda Tussing's case, when police found Barbara's purse, 0:12:12.041 --> 0:12:14.281 it had her car, keys and all of her belongings 0:12:14.321 --> 0:12:18.361 inside it. Barbara's nineteen seventy four brown Chevy Nova was 0:12:18.441 --> 0:12:21.361 parked five miles from where her body was found. All 0:12:21.441 --> 0:12:24.561 of the doors were locked, there was no sign of 0:12:24.601 --> 0:12:29.161 foul play inside the vehicle. Police found items inside the 0:12:29.161 --> 0:12:32.721 car personal items of Barbara's that did give investigators a 0:12:32.761 --> 0:12:37.121 clue about her movements right before she went missing. Inside 0:12:37.201 --> 0:12:39.560 the car, on the middle of the front seat, they 0:12:39.641 --> 0:12:42.521 found a white cloth jacket lying on top of a 0:12:42.521 --> 0:12:45.481 green overnight case. Next to the overnight bag, there was 0:12:45.521 --> 0:12:47.201 an envelope that was addressed to Barbara. 0:12:48.041 --> 0:12:50.001 So the investigator on the case, J. C. 0:12:50.161 --> 0:12:54.401 Brewer, talked to Barbara's closest girlfriend, a woman named Joyce Langston. 0:12:55.241 --> 0:12:58.161 Joyce told police she had been super close to Barbara 0:12:58.241 --> 0:13:01.441 for a long time, but she said she had stopped 0:13:01.481 --> 0:13:04.601 running around with Barbara lately and these are her words 0:13:05.241 --> 0:13:11.241 because Barbara was dating married men. Police continued to process 0:13:11.321 --> 0:13:14.800 Barbara Brian's in nineteen seventy four Chevy Nova. They wondered 0:13:14.921 --> 0:13:17.401 about the location of the car versus the location of 0:13:17.401 --> 0:13:20.961 her body. Why, if it was in fact Barbara driving, 0:13:21.601 --> 0:13:24.081 would Barbara park her car and stop there on that 0:13:24.121 --> 0:13:26.681 deserted strip of road. They took the car to the 0:13:26.681 --> 0:13:30.201 Sheriff's department. Investigators wanted to check out the vehicle's condition. 0:13:30.441 --> 0:13:33.721 They were thinking, maybe the car broke down, Maybe Barbara 0:13:33.841 --> 0:13:36.800 encountered a stranger, Maybe she stopped to pick someone up 0:13:36.841 --> 0:13:39.121 and he pulled a gun on her, or maybe she 0:13:39.161 --> 0:13:41.881 had someone with her in the car. The car broke down, 0:13:41.921 --> 0:13:44.281 something went wrong and they got into an argument. They 0:13:44.321 --> 0:13:47.721 had to consider all different types of scenarios. They saw 0:13:47.801 --> 0:13:50.401 that the gas gauge showed that the car was empty, 0:13:51.161 --> 0:13:53.441 but that was kind of a red herring because when 0:13:53.641 --> 0:13:57.721 police started the car up, it ran fine. Later they 0:13:57.721 --> 0:14:00.401 figured out the gas gauge itself was broken, but the 0:14:00.441 --> 0:14:03.641 car had plenty of gas in it. In the police 0:14:03.641 --> 0:14:07.081 report noted the vehicle exterior had dew on it, so 0:14:07.241 --> 0:14:10.320 they weren't able to lift latent prints. The vehicle was 0:14:10.361 --> 0:14:13.681 impounded to the Sheriff's department for further processing. But then 0:14:14.561 --> 0:14:17.041 I can't find anything more in this report about what 0:14:17.081 --> 0:14:21.401 happened to the car, whether they did take fingerprints. They 0:14:21.401 --> 0:14:23.961 got into her bag. They unzipped the carrier and found 0:14:24.001 --> 0:14:26.801 Barbara's stuff inside. They found a white pair of pants 0:14:26.841 --> 0:14:29.841 and maroon blouse, her makeup, her curling iron, all of 0:14:29.841 --> 0:14:31.961 the stuff that she would need to get ready, as 0:14:31.961 --> 0:14:35.521 well as two small plaster statues and an ankle bracelet. 0:14:36.001 --> 0:14:40.681 They also found photographs of two white men. So police 0:14:40.721 --> 0:14:44.641 got more information from Barbara's girlfriend, Joyce. She looked at 0:14:44.681 --> 0:14:47.201 the photos in Barbara's bag and said that one of 0:14:47.241 --> 0:14:50.841 them was Jerry Shaw. She said that Jerry Shaw and 0:14:50.921 --> 0:14:53.201 Barbara had been dating for several months and that things 0:14:53.201 --> 0:14:56.201 were going well. They found a greeting card inside and 0:14:56.241 --> 0:15:00.441 it was also written by Jerry Shaw. But then Joyce 0:15:00.521 --> 0:15:04.321 told them something shocking. Joyce said that for the past 0:15:04.321 --> 0:15:08.281 several years, Barbara had been dating someone else, a police 0:15:08.321 --> 0:15:13.361 officer named Johnny Williams. Johnny Williams lived in black Oak, 0:15:13.881 --> 0:15:17.281 which was a small town nearby by the way. This 0:15:17.481 --> 0:15:20.681 was very close to the area where Amanda Tussing's body 0:15:20.721 --> 0:15:24.361 was found. Johnny was born in nineteen forty six, so 0:15:24.601 --> 0:15:27.641 by two thousand, when Amanda Tussing was murdered, Johnny would 0:15:27.641 --> 0:15:30.121 have been fifty four years old. He served in the 0:15:30.201 --> 0:15:33.121 Navy in Vietnam and then after that was a police 0:15:33.161 --> 0:15:35.881 officer in black Oak, and he also worked in the 0:15:35.921 --> 0:15:39.081 neighboring county at the Craighead County Sheriff's office. At one 0:15:39.121 --> 0:15:42.801 point he was an Arkansas State trooper. We mentioned that 0:15:42.841 --> 0:15:45.881 he became a suspect and Amanda Tussing's death because of 0:15:45.921 --> 0:15:49.321 his alleged behavior Apparently he had a habit of following 0:15:49.361 --> 0:15:53.961 single women around in his police cruiser. But in nineteen eighty, 0:15:54.161 --> 0:15:57.281 Johnny Williams would have been thirty four, and now we 0:15:57.361 --> 0:16:01.921 find out that he was dating Barbara. Bryan Joyce told 0:16:01.921 --> 0:16:05.321 police that Johnny was not happy about the fact Barbara 0:16:05.361 --> 0:16:09.161 wanted to end things. Joyce told police Barbara had told 0:16:09.201 --> 0:16:13.641 her that Johnny Williams flew into jealous rages. On the 0:16:13.721 --> 0:16:16.241 night Barbara was shot, she had a date with Jerry Shaw. 0:16:16.921 --> 0:16:21.081 Jerry lived in Blible. That's why Barbara had her overnight bag. 0:16:21.481 --> 0:16:24.081 She had her stuff ready for a weekend with her boyfriend. 0:16:25.201 --> 0:16:25.801 Joyce said. 0:16:25.841 --> 0:16:29.201 Two weeks before Barbara was murdered, Barbara called her and 0:16:29.281 --> 0:16:32.801 told her she had a violent confrontation with Johnny. She 0:16:32.961 --> 0:16:35.361 said she had told Johnny she was dating another man, 0:16:35.921 --> 0:16:39.081 and that Johnny got extremely upset and beat on the 0:16:39.161 --> 0:16:42.641 dash of his car. Barbara told Joyce, according to the 0:16:42.681 --> 0:16:47.001 incident report, that Joe was extremely jealous. Last week, when 0:16:47.041 --> 0:16:49.281 we talked about Amanda Tussing's case, we talked about the 0:16:49.321 --> 0:16:53.041 blue light rapist. The blue light rapist impersonated a police 0:16:53.041 --> 0:16:55.761 officer and committed a string of sexual assaults in this area, 0:16:56.241 --> 0:16:58.361 but of course he had already been arrested and sent 0:16:58.401 --> 0:17:02.161 to prison by the time Amanda disappeared. A lot of 0:17:02.161 --> 0:17:06.721 people at that time talked about the possibility that Amanda 0:17:06.801 --> 0:17:10.000 Tussing might have pulled over for a real police officer, 0:17:10.001 --> 0:17:12.721 and that perhaps a real police officer had. 0:17:12.561 --> 0:17:13.160 Been the killer. 0:17:14.201 --> 0:17:18.160 Johnny Williams worked for the Tyronza Sheriff's Department. Tyron'sa is 0:17:18.201 --> 0:17:20.080 a small town in the northeast part of the state. 0:17:20.521 --> 0:17:23.840 The population is only around seven hundred people and there 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.080 are not a ton of jobs. A lot of people 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.400 who live there commute to larger cities nearby, including Memphis 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:30.321 and Jonesboro. 0:17:30.961 --> 0:17:32.721 George Jared, who he worked with. 0:17:32.561 --> 0:17:35.201 On the Rebecca Gould case from season one of heleng Gon, 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.360 wrote about Amanda Tussing's murder in his book Whispers in 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.041 the Willows, and as part of that we mentioned the 0:17:41.041 --> 0:17:44.561 theories that Johnny Williams might have been involved in Barbara 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.840 and in Amanda's murders. It seemed clear from what's out 0:17:47.881 --> 0:17:51.281 there in the public that the police suspected Johnny certainly 0:17:51.321 --> 0:17:54.880 in Barbara's death, but I had a lot of questions. 0:17:55.201 --> 0:17:57.281 It wasn't clear to me how much investigating they did, 0:17:57.281 --> 0:18:00.281 whether they ever questioned him. There was just nothing written 0:18:00.321 --> 0:18:03.801 in the media about it at all. Since Amanda's case 0:18:03.881 --> 0:18:06.961 is still open, police will not release. 0:18:06.681 --> 0:18:07.281 The case file. 0:18:07.881 --> 0:18:09.960 But I hoped if we could get some information on 0:18:10.041 --> 0:18:13.361 Barber's case, maybe we could figure out whether Johnny Williams 0:18:13.441 --> 0:18:17.680 was a viable suspect in her murder or possibly in others. 0:18:18.041 --> 0:18:20.281 We did a Foyer request and we were able to 0:18:20.281 --> 0:18:22.961 get a copy of the incident report on Barbara's death. 0:18:23.481 --> 0:18:26.801 We got that from Mississippi County, Arkansas, and it turns 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.921 out there was a lot more detail on record about 0:18:29.921 --> 0:18:33.761 Barbara Brin's death, enough to make me really question why 0:18:33.801 --> 0:18:37.161 Johnny Williams was never arrested. I'll get back to that 0:18:37.201 --> 0:18:39.401 in a minute. Let's go back to the crime scene. 0:18:40.761 --> 0:18:43.161 Police were trying to figure out what Barbara was doing 0:18:43.241 --> 0:18:45.801 out there on that stretch of highway. They were looking 0:18:45.881 --> 0:18:49.481 for witnesses. Now, they knew from Barbara's friend Joyce, that 0:18:49.601 --> 0:18:52.601 Johnny Williams had been dating Barbara. They wanted to find 0:18:52.601 --> 0:18:55.600 out about his movements on December eleventh and December twelfth, 0:18:55.681 --> 0:18:58.880 nineteen eighty, and they pretty quickly found a lead I 0:18:58.961 --> 0:19:01.121 have actually never seen this happen before in a case 0:19:01.161 --> 0:19:01.920 that I can remember. 0:19:02.521 --> 0:19:03.521 They got a lot of. 0:19:03.401 --> 0:19:07.361 Information from a man named Clyde Eldridge. He told police 0:19:07.561 --> 0:19:12.481 that he would often sleep overnight at the Tyronsa Police Department. Now, 0:19:12.641 --> 0:19:15.641 Johnny Williams also had an office in the Tyrone'sa PD 0:19:16.561 --> 0:19:19.241 at that time. According to what I've been able to find, 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.521 he was an Arkansas State Police trooper. Tyronza was in 0:19:23.561 --> 0:19:28.161 Poinsett County, not in Mississippi County. So once again we 0:19:28.321 --> 0:19:31.120 have a case that crossed county lines and all the 0:19:31.121 --> 0:19:35.721 potential complications that that entails. Police were trying to piece 0:19:35.721 --> 0:19:38.961 together where everyone was on the night of December eleventh. 0:19:39.561 --> 0:19:41.281 Apparently on that night. 0:19:41.561 --> 0:19:44.801 Clyde Eldridge was sleeping in the iron's A Police station. 0:19:45.721 --> 0:19:48.441 He told investigators he got to the police station at 0:19:48.481 --> 0:19:52.241 twelve fifteen am. Clyde said that Johnny Williams was there, 0:19:52.721 --> 0:19:55.041 that Johnny was sitting at his desk at the police 0:19:55.041 --> 0:19:56.360 department watching TV. 0:19:57.641 --> 0:19:59.041 Clyde said he sat. 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.521 Around and talked to Johnny for a few minutes. Then 0:20:01.961 --> 0:20:05.041 he said he noticed a two tone leather gun case 0:20:05.241 --> 0:20:08.761 lying across Johnny's desk, but Clyde said he didn't really 0:20:08.761 --> 0:20:11.840 think anything about it, and I'm not surprised because it 0:20:11.921 --> 0:20:14.080 was super common to have guns in that neck of 0:20:14.121 --> 0:20:17.281 the woods. Johnny was a hunter like a lot of people. 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.880 The report read quote Clyde had asked Johnny if he 0:20:20.921 --> 0:20:23.281 had been hunting. Johnny stated to Clyde that he had 0:20:23.281 --> 0:20:26.881 been to Brandywine Island. Clyde advised he thought brandy Wye 0:20:26.881 --> 0:20:29.840 Island was closed. Johnny Williams stated to him, if you 0:20:29.881 --> 0:20:32.081 know who to contact, you can go hunting there. 0:20:32.361 --> 0:20:32.840 End quote. 0:20:33.361 --> 0:20:36.640 So after they discussed Johnny's hunting plans, Clyde said that 0:20:36.721 --> 0:20:40.521 sometime around one or one fifteen am, Johnny was trying 0:20:40.561 --> 0:20:43.281 to make a phone call from the police department. Clyde 0:20:43.281 --> 0:20:46.001 said he'd he didn't exactly remember who the call was to, 0:20:46.681 --> 0:20:49.001 but he said that at around one fifteen am, it 0:20:49.041 --> 0:20:51.721 did seem like Johnny made contact with the person he 0:20:51.801 --> 0:20:54.840 was trying to call. Clyde said that after that he 0:20:54.961 --> 0:20:57.041 laid down on the couch in the office. He said 0:20:57.041 --> 0:20:59.761 he went to sleep. Sometime around two or two thirty am, 0:21:00.201 --> 0:21:03.120 he heard someone leaving the police station. He explained that 0:21:03.161 --> 0:21:05.120 when the front door is unlocked, it wakes him up. 0:21:05.561 --> 0:21:07.721 He stated he usually wakes up when someone opens the 0:21:07.761 --> 0:21:09.361 door and then gets up to see what they want. 0:21:10.241 --> 0:21:12.241 After he woke up, he walked to the front of 0:21:12.281 --> 0:21:15.801 the police department and looked outside. He noticed Johnny Williams 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.481 was gone. Johnny williams jeep eagle was not parked in front. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.721 Clyde said he wasn't exactly sure of the time. He 0:21:22.761 --> 0:21:24.961 went back to sleep, and the next thing he remembered 0:21:25.001 --> 0:21:27.600 was at four forty five am, when the police chief, 0:21:27.721 --> 0:21:31.161 Floyd White, came into the police department and woke him up. 0:21:32.721 --> 0:21:36.321 This is almost like a movie about smalltown police, complete 0:21:36.321 --> 0:21:38.801 with people admitting to sleeping on their jobs at night 0:21:39.361 --> 0:21:45.441 and people crashing in the police station. Evidently, police were 0:21:45.561 --> 0:21:49.201 very suspicious of Johnny Williams because on the very next day, 0:21:49.201 --> 0:21:52.961 in December thirteenth of nineteen eighty, Johnny Williams was interrogated. 0:21:53.721 --> 0:21:56.881 Investigators gave him a lie detector test. The investigator's name 0:21:56.921 --> 0:22:00.400 was George Stewart. They administered the polygraph at the Mississippi 0:22:00.441 --> 0:22:05.561 County Sheriff's Department. The lie detector examiner said Johnny Williams 0:22:05.561 --> 0:22:09.880 had been deceptive, which means investigators concluded that Johnny Williams 0:22:09.961 --> 0:22:12.761 lied during that test. Again, I think we have to 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.840 be very careful about putting too much faith into light detectors. 0:22:16.241 --> 0:22:18.761 We've talked about that a lot on this podcast. We 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.401 know they're dependent on the skill of the person administering them. Also, 0:22:22.801 --> 0:22:25.360 there's a good reason why they're not admissible in court. 0:22:25.801 --> 0:22:29.201 But I do think it's really interesting that immediately the police, 0:22:29.201 --> 0:22:31.961 who sometimes people criticized for protecting one of their own, 0:22:32.361 --> 0:22:35.721 were suspicious of another officer, they do not hesitate to 0:22:35.761 --> 0:22:40.761 polygraph him. So this brings us to December fourteenth. Barbara 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.080 Bryan's body has been found. Johnny Williams, who she's been 0:22:44.161 --> 0:22:46.921 dating on and off for three years, is immediately pretty 0:22:47.001 --> 0:22:51.721 much a prime suspect. On December fourteenth, they informed Johnny 0:22:51.721 --> 0:22:53.880 Williams that he had failed the light detector test, and 0:22:53.961 --> 0:22:57.880 he agreed to take a second test. This time it 0:22:57.921 --> 0:23:01.241 was administered by the Arkansas State Police, and once again 0:23:01.401 --> 0:23:04.201 Johnny Williams failed that polygraph test, So. 0:23:04.281 --> 0:23:05.961 Now he's zero for two. 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.201 Police found other officers who had seen Johnny Williams that night. 0:23:11.601 --> 0:23:14.840 They found a man named James Miles, a police officer 0:23:15.001 --> 0:23:18.120 in La Ponto, He said he saw Johnny at around 0:23:18.121 --> 0:23:20.961 two thirty am on the morning of December twelfth. He 0:23:20.961 --> 0:23:23.360 said Johnny was traveling north on Highway one forty and 0:23:23.401 --> 0:23:27.561 one thirty five. He saw Johnny driving his Cheep Eagle. 0:23:28.241 --> 0:23:31.761 He recognized Johnny and he recognized the car. He said 0:23:31.801 --> 0:23:34.241 he did not see him again during his shift, which 0:23:34.321 --> 0:23:38.721 ended at three am. Investigators pulled the desklog from the 0:23:38.721 --> 0:23:41.600 Tyronsa Police department from the night of December. 0:23:41.241 --> 0:23:42.441 Twelfth, nineteen eighty. 0:23:43.881 --> 0:23:48.041 They searched Johnny Williams Jeep Eagle in the back seat 0:23:48.161 --> 0:23:50.681 on the left armrest. There was a small piece of 0:23:50.761 --> 0:23:54.201 reddish orange string entangled in the carpeting. This was entered 0:23:54.201 --> 0:23:58.441 into evidence and cataloged. Investigators also found a pair of 0:23:58.481 --> 0:24:02.041 green hip boots and a pair of camouflage coveralls on 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.120 the back floorboard. There was a rust colored vest in 0:24:05.121 --> 0:24:07.841 the back of the car too that had several Western 0:24:07.921 --> 0:24:11.241