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Speaker 1: School of Humans.

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Speaker 2: Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in

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Speaker 2: an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come

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Speaker 2: forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated

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Speaker 2: by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and

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Speaker 2: community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and

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Speaker 2: point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases.

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Speaker 2: We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven

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Speaker 2: guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast

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Speaker 2: is intended to state or imply that anyone who has

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Speaker 2: not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 3: On Friday, December twelfth, nineteen eighty, at approximately six forty

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Speaker 3: five in the morning, the Mississippi County Sheriff's Department got

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Speaker 3: a call about a female body lying on the side

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Speaker 3: of the road. The location of the body was on

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Speaker 3: Highway one't eight one, just south of Highway one fifty eight.

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Speaker 3: The caller was a man named Arbora dal Watkins who

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Speaker 3: lived nearby in Manila, Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: He told police he had.

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Speaker 3: Been en route to his job at the brown shoe

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Speaker 3: factory in Osceola when he turned south on the highway

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Speaker 3: and saw the body lying in the edge of a ditch.

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Speaker 3: He went to a nearby business, the Reese Wholesale Furniture Outlet,

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Speaker 3: in contacted the Arkansas State Police in Jonesborough, who then

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Speaker 3: called the Mississippi County Sheriff's Office because the body was

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Speaker 3: in their jurisdiction. Officer Richard Nash from the Mississippi County

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Speaker 3: Sheriff's Department arrived at the scene at.

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Speaker 1: Six fifty six am. He came to meet.

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Speaker 3: The guy who had called police and to start processing

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Speaker 3: the crime scene. The woman was dressed in a striped

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Speaker 3: red colored dress and velveteen jacket. She was five foot five.

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Speaker 3: She weighed around one hundred and fifteen pounds. The woman

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Speaker 3: was carrying a reddish brown clutch bag under her right arm.

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Speaker 3: Detectives were able to go into that bag and find

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Speaker 3: her ID. That's when they knew who this woman was.

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Speaker 3: Barbara and Bryan, a thirty year old mother of two

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Speaker 3: from a Pontou, Arkansas. It was not hard to figure

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Speaker 3: out the cause of death. Barbara had massive holes blown

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Speaker 3: into her body by a shotgun. The shots were so

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Speaker 3: violent that pieces of her hair and skull were found

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Speaker 3: twenty feet away. So once again in rural Arkansas, we

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Speaker 3: have a woman whose body was found in a ditch

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Speaker 3: near a highway and her car was found several miles

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Speaker 3: down the road. And just like in Amanda Tussing's case,

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Speaker 3: which we discussed last week, there were suspicions that a

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Speaker 3: police officer may have been involved, and Barbara's murder is

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Speaker 3: also still unsolved. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five

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Speaker 3: years of making my true crime podcast, Helling Gone, I

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Speaker 3: have learned that there is no such thing as a

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Speaker 3: small town where never happens. I have received hundreds of

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Speaker 3: messages from people all around the country asking for help

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Speaker 3: with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and

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Speaker 3: their communities. If you have a case you'd like me

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Speaker 3: and my team to look into, you can reach out

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Speaker 3: to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six

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Speaker 3: seven eight seven four four six one four five. That's

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Speaker 3: six seven eight seven four four, six one four or five.

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Speaker 3: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Police had responded to

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Speaker 3: a murder scene along the shoulder of the road. From

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Speaker 3: there things happened fast. The county corner was contacted at

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Speaker 3: seven fifteen am arrangements were made to move Barber's body

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Speaker 3: so that it could be tested. At seven twenty one am,

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Speaker 3: Sergeant J. C. Brewer arrived on the scene. He noted

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Speaker 3: the position of Barber's body. It was facing the west

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Speaker 3: side of the road shoulder, her feet were facing the highway.

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Speaker 3: She had what appeared to be a large shotgun wound

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Speaker 3: to the chest and part of her left hand had

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Speaker 3: been shot off. They found casings and shotgun shells scattered around.

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Speaker 3: They also found buckshot, the casing from Barbara's watch, and

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Speaker 3: some her parts of the watch were found several feet

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Speaker 3: away from the body as well. In all, police found

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Speaker 3: five shotgun shells and powder dividers, and two separate locks

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Speaker 3: of blonde hair. All of the hairs they found were

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Speaker 3: positively identified as Barbara's. Barbara had a large bloodstain and

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Speaker 3: brain material under her head. It was obvious that these

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Speaker 3: were catastrophic injuries. Police also noticed something else. They noticed

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Speaker 3: a ring. It had a black center mounting with eight

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Speaker 3: surrounding clear settings. The interesting thing about the ring was

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Speaker 3: that it appeared to investigators that it had been cut

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Speaker 3: into and peeled open. From the way they describe it,

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Speaker 3: it's not totally clear, but it seems like someone used

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Speaker 3: a tool or something to try and remove the ring

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Speaker 3: from Barbara's finger, and in the end they couldn't do it.

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Speaker 3: I can't be sure because the way the report is

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Speaker 3: worded is slightly odd. In my opinion, it makes it

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Speaker 3: sound like the center stone may have been missing. Now,

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Speaker 3: this would be very interesting because that ring was on

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Speaker 3: Barbara's ring finger, the fourth finger of her left hand,

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Speaker 3: the finger that's traditionally used for engagement rings and wedding bands.

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Speaker 3: The body was taken to the Chickisa Album Morgue at

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Speaker 3: the request of the coroner, and then the investigation continued.

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Speaker 3: Investigators figured out Barbara had been shot at least twice,

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Speaker 3: possibly with a twelve or sixteen gage shotgun, the type

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Speaker 3: of shotguns that are used for hunting. Both of these

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Speaker 3: gun sizes, by the way, are used for hunting deer

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Speaker 3: and for hunting other types of game. The twelve gage

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Speaker 3: is slightly larger, but both of these weapons packed serious firepower.

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Speaker 3: Barbara was shot at least twice at very close range.

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Speaker 1: From the position that she was in.

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Speaker 3: It seemed as though she was shot in the chest

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Speaker 3: from behind on the left side. This severely damaged her

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Speaker 3: lungs and would have been fatal. Then she was shot again.

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Speaker 3: From the description of the autopsy report of the powder

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Speaker 3: burns on Barbara's hands and the fact that part of

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Speaker 3: her left hand was missing, it seems as though she

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Speaker 3: may have had her hand near her neck when she

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Speaker 3: was shot. The state medical examiner Dan Cook did find

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Speaker 3: more wounds on Barber's head, but he said that they

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Speaker 3: were most likely the result of the shotgun pellets rather

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Speaker 3: than direct shots.

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Speaker 1: So when people go hunting deer or other animals, they often.

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Speaker 3: Do it with buckshot. That's literally what the ammunition is

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Speaker 3: named for. The male deer, the buck. There are several

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Speaker 3: large pellets that are packed into a shotgun shell. Now.

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Speaker 3: According to Field and Stream, buckshot is ideal for quote

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Speaker 3: close ranges inside fifty yards. Buckshot is lethal on thin

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Speaker 3: skin targets from bobcats to coyotes, to leopards to people.

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Speaker 1: End quote.

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Speaker 3: When you use a shotgun and buckshot, it comes out

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Speaker 3: in a burst rather than a single shot. Forensic testing

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Speaker 3: determined that the bullets had entered Barbara's left shoulder at

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Speaker 3: a forty five degree angle, so it would be reasonable

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Speaker 3: for police to consider the possibility Barbara knew her killer.

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Speaker 1: She was standing there talking to them.

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Speaker 3: Then she might have turned around to walk away before

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Speaker 3: her killer shot her. Remember, she had her purse under

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Speaker 3: her right arm. Police found a chalky white substance on

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Speaker 3: the front of Barbara's dress, just below her breast. They

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Speaker 3: never really explained what that was. Now, this is just

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Speaker 3: a guest since I'm not a gun expert. I do

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Speaker 3: know they use buffering powder inside shotgun shells made of polyethylene.

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Speaker 1: So that might have been what it was.

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Speaker 3: It could have been something totally different, like a deodorant stain,

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Speaker 3: for example, So I can't say for sure, but a

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Speaker 3: buffer powder is more likely in my opinion, because the

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Speaker 3: medical report did point out one of Barbara's wounds had

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Speaker 3: powder burnt. What this means is that Barbara's killer shot

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Speaker 3: her at very close range. The autopsy also mentioned Barbara

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Speaker 3: was not wearing underwear. Now, this could have been a

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Speaker 3: fashion choice, but we also have to consider the possibility

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Speaker 3: that it might have been removed, possibly by the killer,

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Speaker 3: maybe in an attempt to camouflage DNA if the killer

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Speaker 3: had any type of sexual encounter with her, either consensual

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Speaker 3: or not, before her murder. There were two shots fired,

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Speaker 3: so It seems as though either Barbara's killer shot her

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Speaker 3: in the back and then turned her over and shot her,

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Speaker 3: or shot her and then fired the fatal shot as

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Speaker 3: she tried to run away. Either way, this was an

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Speaker 3: execution and it was brutal and judging by the way

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Speaker 3: that her killer tried to wrench the ring from her finger,

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Speaker 3: this was very personal. Barbara Brian's murder happened in the

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Speaker 3: same general area as the murder of Amanda Tussing, the

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Speaker 3: case that we discussed in a previous episode. As we mentioned,

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Speaker 3: Amanda Tussing was making a forty mile drive from her fiance,

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Speaker 3: Matt Irvin's home in Jonesboro to her parents house in Dell, Arkansas.

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Speaker 3: It was raining hard that night and Amanda never made

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Speaker 3: it home. Her car was found part just off Highway

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Speaker 3: eighteen near Monette. Her body was found days later in

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Speaker 3: a ditch near Lake City. Like Barbara's, Amanda's murder is

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Speaker 3: still unsolved, and even though the causes of death are different,

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Speaker 3: Amanda may have been strangled and there were no gunshots involved,

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Speaker 3: while Barbara was very obviously fatally shot, there are some similarities.

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Speaker 3: Both women were petite, both of their bodies were recovered

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Speaker 3: miles away from their cars, and both bodies were found

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Speaker 3: in locations that made investigators believe the killer had to

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Speaker 3: have a lot of local knowledge. A lot of people

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Speaker 3: in this neck of the woods have connected Barbara and

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Speaker 3: Amanda's cases over the years.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I was.

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Speaker 3: So fascinated by this case is because while there is

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Speaker 3: a ton of information about Amanda Tossing, there is very

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Speaker 3: little information out there about the life of Barbara and

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Speaker 3: Armstrong Brian. What we do know is that she was

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Speaker 3: born in Caraway, Arkansas, in Craighead County, to Fleming's Skinny

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Speaker 3: Armstrong and Agnes Armstrong.

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Speaker 1: Barbara's dad, Skinny, was a farmer. She grew up in a.

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Speaker 3: Baptist's household, like a lot of other kids in that region.

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Speaker 3: She had a brother named Gary, and again, very much

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Speaker 3: like in Amanda Tussing's case, when police found Barbara's purse,

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Speaker 3: it had her car, keys and all of her belongings

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Speaker 3: inside it. Barbara's nineteen seventy four brown Chevy Nova was

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Speaker 3: parked five miles from where her body was found. All

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Speaker 3: of the doors were locked, there was no sign of

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Speaker 3: foul play inside the vehicle. Police found items inside the

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Speaker 3: car personal items of Barbara's that did give investigators a

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Speaker 3: clue about her movements right before she went missing. Inside

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Speaker 3: the car, on the middle of the front seat, they

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Speaker 3: found a white cloth jacket lying on top of a

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Speaker 3: green overnight case. Next to the overnight bag, there was

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Speaker 3: an envelope that was addressed to Barbara.

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Speaker 1: So the investigator on the case, J. C.

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Speaker 3: Brewer, talked to Barbara's closest girlfriend, a woman named Joyce Langston.

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Speaker 3: Joyce told police she had been super close to Barbara

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Speaker 3: for a long time, but she said she had stopped

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Speaker 3: running around with Barbara lately and these are her words

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Speaker 3: because Barbara was dating married men. Police continued to process

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Speaker 3: Barbara Brian's in nineteen seventy four Chevy Nova. They wondered

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Speaker 3: about the location of the car versus the location of

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Speaker 3: her body. Why, if it was in fact Barbara driving,

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Speaker 3: would Barbara park her car and stop there on that

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Speaker 3: deserted strip of road. They took the car to the

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Speaker 3: Sheriff's department. Investigators wanted to check out the vehicle's condition.

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Speaker 3: They were thinking, maybe the car broke down, Maybe Barbara

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Speaker 3: encountered a stranger, Maybe she stopped to pick someone up

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Speaker 3: and he pulled a gun on her, or maybe she

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Speaker 3: had someone with her in the car. The car broke down,

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Speaker 3: something went wrong and they got into an argument. They

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Speaker 3: had to consider all different types of scenarios. They saw

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Speaker 3: that the gas gauge showed that the car was empty,

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Speaker 3: but that was kind of a red herring because when

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Speaker 3: police started the car up, it ran fine. Later they

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Speaker 3: figured out the gas gauge itself was broken, but the

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Speaker 3: car had plenty of gas in it. In the police

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Speaker 3: report noted the vehicle exterior had dew on it, so

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Speaker 3: they weren't able to lift latent prints. The vehicle was

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Speaker 3: impounded to the Sheriff's department for further processing. But then

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Speaker 3: I can't find anything more in this report about what

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Speaker 3: happened to the car, whether they did take fingerprints. They

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Speaker 3: got into her bag. They unzipped the carrier and found

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Speaker 3: Barbara's stuff inside. They found a white pair of pants

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Speaker 3: and maroon blouse, her makeup, her curling iron, all of

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Speaker 3: the stuff that she would need to get ready, as

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Speaker 3: well as two small plaster statues and an ankle bracelet.

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Speaker 3: They also found photographs of two white men. So police

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Speaker 3: got more information from Barbara's girlfriend, Joyce. She looked at

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Speaker 3: the photos in Barbara's bag and said that one of

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Speaker 3: them was Jerry Shaw. She said that Jerry Shaw and

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Speaker 3: Barbara had been dating for several months and that things

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Speaker 3: were going well. They found a greeting card inside and

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Speaker 3: it was also written by Jerry Shaw. But then Joyce

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Speaker 3: told them something shocking. Joyce said that for the past

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Speaker 3: several years, Barbara had been dating someone else, a police

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Speaker 3: officer named Johnny Williams. Johnny Williams lived in black Oak,

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Speaker 3: which was a small town nearby by the way. This

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Speaker 3: was very close to the area where Amanda Tussing's body

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Speaker 3: was found. Johnny was born in nineteen forty six, so

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Speaker 3: by two thousand, when Amanda Tussing was murdered, Johnny would

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Speaker 3: have been fifty four years old. He served in the

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Speaker 3: Navy in Vietnam and then after that was a police

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Speaker 3: officer in black Oak, and he also worked in the

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Speaker 3: neighboring county at the Craighead County Sheriff's office. At one

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Speaker 3: point he was an Arkansas State trooper. We mentioned that

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Speaker 3: he became a suspect and Amanda Tussing's death because of

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Speaker 3: his alleged behavior Apparently he had a habit of following

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Speaker 3: single women around in his police cruiser. But in nineteen eighty,

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Speaker 3: Johnny Williams would have been thirty four, and now we

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Speaker 3: find out that he was dating Barbara. Bryan Joyce told

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Speaker 3: police that Johnny was not happy about the fact Barbara

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Speaker 3: wanted to end things. Joyce told police Barbara had told

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Speaker 3: her that Johnny Williams flew into jealous rages. On the

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Speaker 3: night Barbara was shot, she had a date with Jerry Shaw.

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Speaker 3: Jerry lived in Blible. That's why Barbara had her overnight bag.

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Speaker 3: She had her stuff ready for a weekend with her boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: Joyce said.

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Speaker 3: Two weeks before Barbara was murdered, Barbara called her and

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Speaker 3: told her she had a violent confrontation with Johnny. She

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Speaker 3: said she had told Johnny she was dating another man,

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Speaker 3: and that Johnny got extremely upset and beat on the

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Speaker 3: dash of his car. Barbara told Joyce, according to the

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Speaker 3: incident report, that Joe was extremely jealous. Last week, when

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Speaker 3: we talked about Amanda Tussing's case, we talked about the

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Speaker 3: blue light rapist. The blue light rapist impersonated a police

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Speaker 3: officer and committed a string of sexual assaults in this area,

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Speaker 3: but of course he had already been arrested and sent

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Speaker 3: to prison by the time Amanda disappeared. A lot of

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Speaker 3: people at that time talked about the possibility that Amanda

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Speaker 3: Tussing might have pulled over for a real police officer,

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Speaker 3: and that perhaps a real police officer had.

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Speaker 1: Been the killer.

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Speaker 3: Johnny Williams worked for the Tyronza Sheriff's Department. Tyron'sa is

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Speaker 3: a small town in the northeast part of the state.

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Speaker 3: The population is only around seven hundred people and there

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Speaker 3: are not a ton of jobs. A lot of people

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Speaker 3: who live there commute to larger cities nearby, including Memphis

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Speaker 3: and Jonesboro.

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Speaker 1: George Jared, who he worked with.

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Speaker 3: On the Rebecca Gould case from season one of heleng Gon,

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Speaker 3: wrote about Amanda Tussing's murder in his book Whispers in

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Speaker 3: the Willows, and as part of that we mentioned the

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00:17:41,041 --> 00:17:44,561
Speaker 3: theories that Johnny Williams might have been involved in Barbara

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Speaker 3: and in Amanda's murders. It seemed clear from what's out

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Speaker 3: there in the public that the police suspected Johnny certainly

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Speaker 3: in Barbara's death, but I had a lot of questions.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't clear to me how much investigating they did,

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Speaker 3: whether they ever questioned him. There was just nothing written

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Speaker 3: in the media about it at all. Since Amanda's case

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Speaker 3: is still open, police will not release.

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Speaker 1: The case file.

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Speaker 3: But I hoped if we could get some information on

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Speaker 3: Barber's case, maybe we could figure out whether Johnny Williams

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Speaker 3: was a viable suspect in her murder or possibly in others.

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Speaker 3: We did a Foyer request and we were able to

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Speaker 3: get a copy of the incident report on Barbara's death.

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Speaker 3: We got that from Mississippi County, Arkansas, and it turns

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Speaker 3: out there was a lot more detail on record about

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Speaker 3: Barbara Brin's death, enough to make me really question why

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Speaker 3: Johnny Williams was never arrested. I'll get back to that

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Speaker 3: in a minute. Let's go back to the crime scene.

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Speaker 3: Police were trying to figure out what Barbara was doing

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Speaker 3: out there on that stretch of highway. They were looking

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Speaker 3: for witnesses. Now, they knew from Barbara's friend Joyce, that

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Speaker 3: Johnny Williams had been dating Barbara. They wanted to find

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Speaker 3: out about his movements on December eleventh and December twelfth,

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty, and they pretty quickly found a lead I

306
00:18:58,961 --> 00:19:01,121
Speaker 3: have actually never seen this happen before in a case

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Speaker 3: that I can remember.

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Speaker 1: They got a lot of.

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Speaker 3: Information from a man named Clyde Eldridge. He told police

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Speaker 3: that he would often sleep overnight at the Tyronsa Police Department. Now,

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Speaker 3: Johnny Williams also had an office in the Tyrone'sa PD

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Speaker 3: at that time. According to what I've been able to find,

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Speaker 3: he was an Arkansas State Police trooper. Tyronza was in

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Speaker 3: Poinsett County, not in Mississippi County. So once again we

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Speaker 3: have a case that crossed county lines and all the

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Speaker 3: potential complications that that entails. Police were trying to piece

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Speaker 3: together where everyone was on the night of December eleventh.

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Speaker 1: Apparently on that night.

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Speaker 3: Clyde Eldridge was sleeping in the iron's A Police station.

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Speaker 3: He told investigators he got to the police station at

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Speaker 3: twelve fifteen am. Clyde said that Johnny Williams was there,

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Speaker 3: that Johnny was sitting at his desk at the police

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Speaker 3: department watching TV.

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Speaker 1: Clyde said he sat.

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Speaker 3: Around and talked to Johnny for a few minutes. Then

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Speaker 3: he said he noticed a two tone leather gun case

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Speaker 3: lying across Johnny's desk, but Clyde said he didn't really

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Speaker 3: think anything about it, and I'm not surprised because it

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00:20:11,921 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 3: was super common to have guns in that neck of

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Speaker 3: the woods. Johnny was a hunter like a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: The report read quote Clyde had asked Johnny if he

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Speaker 3: had been hunting. Johnny stated to Clyde that he had

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Speaker 3: been to Brandywine Island. Clyde advised he thought brandy Wye

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Speaker 3: Island was closed. Johnny Williams stated to him, if you

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Speaker 3: know who to contact, you can go hunting there.

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Speaker 1: End quote.

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Speaker 3: So after they discussed Johnny's hunting plans, Clyde said that

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Speaker 3: sometime around one or one fifteen am, Johnny was trying

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Speaker 3: to make a phone call from the police department. Clyde

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Speaker 3: said he'd he didn't exactly remember who the call was to,

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Speaker 3: but he said that at around one fifteen am, it

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00:20:49,041 --> 00:20:51,721
Speaker 3: did seem like Johnny made contact with the person he

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00:20:51,801 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 3: was trying to call. Clyde said that after that he

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00:20:54,961 --> 00:20:57,041
Speaker 3: laid down on the couch in the office. He said

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Speaker 3: he went to sleep. Sometime around two or two thirty am,

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Speaker 3: he heard someone leaving the police station. He explained that

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Speaker 3: when the front door is unlocked, it wakes him up.

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Speaker 3: He stated he usually wakes up when someone opens the

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Speaker 3: door and then gets up to see what they want.

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Speaker 3: After he woke up, he walked to the front of

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Speaker 3: the police department and looked outside. He noticed Johnny Williams

352
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Speaker 3: was gone. Johnny williams jeep eagle was not parked in front.

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Speaker 3: Clyde said he wasn't exactly sure of the time. He

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Speaker 3: went back to sleep, and the next thing he remembered

355
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Speaker 3: was at four forty five am, when the police chief,

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Speaker 3: Floyd White, came into the police department and woke him up.

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Speaker 3: This is almost like a movie about smalltown police, complete

358
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Speaker 3: with people admitting to sleeping on their jobs at night

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Speaker 3: and people crashing in the police station. Evidently, police were

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Speaker 3: very suspicious of Johnny Williams because on the very next day,

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Speaker 3: in December thirteenth of nineteen eighty, Johnny Williams was interrogated.

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Speaker 3: Investigators gave him a lie detector test. The investigator's name

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Speaker 3: was George Stewart. They administered the polygraph at the Mississippi

364
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Speaker 3: County Sheriff's Department. The lie detector examiner said Johnny Williams

365
00:22:05,561 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 3: had been deceptive, which means investigators concluded that Johnny Williams

366
00:22:09,961 --> 00:22:12,761
Speaker 3: lied during that test. Again, I think we have to

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Speaker 3: be very careful about putting too much faith into light detectors.

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Speaker 3: We've talked about that a lot on this podcast. We

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Speaker 3: know they're dependent on the skill of the person administering them. Also,

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Speaker 3: there's a good reason why they're not admissible in court.

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Speaker 3: But I do think it's really interesting that immediately the police,

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Speaker 3: who sometimes people criticized for protecting one of their own,

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Speaker 3: were suspicious of another officer, they do not hesitate to

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Speaker 3: polygraph him. So this brings us to December fourteenth. Barbara

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Speaker 3: Bryan's body has been found. Johnny Williams, who she's been

376
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Speaker 3: dating on and off for three years, is immediately pretty

377
00:22:47,001 --> 00:22:51,721
Speaker 3: much a prime suspect. On December fourteenth, they informed Johnny

378
00:22:51,721 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 3: Williams that he had failed the light detector test, and

379
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Speaker 3: he agreed to take a second test. This time it

380
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Speaker 3: was administered by the Arkansas State Police, and once again

381
00:23:01,401 --> 00:23:04,201
Speaker 3: Johnny Williams failed that polygraph test, So.

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Speaker 1: Now he's zero for two.

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Speaker 3: Police found other officers who had seen Johnny Williams that night.

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Speaker 3: They found a man named James Miles, a police officer

385
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Speaker 3: in La Ponto, He said he saw Johnny at around

386
00:23:18,121 --> 00:23:20,961
Speaker 3: two thirty am on the morning of December twelfth. He

387
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Speaker 3: said Johnny was traveling north on Highway one forty and

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Speaker 3: one thirty five. He saw Johnny driving his Cheep Eagle.

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Speaker 3: He recognized Johnny and he recognized the car. He said

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Speaker 3: he did not see him again during his shift, which

391
00:23:34,321 --> 00:23:38,721
Speaker 3: ended at three am. Investigators pulled the desklog from the

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Speaker 3: Tyronsa Police department from the night of December.

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Speaker 1: Twelfth, nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 3: They searched Johnny Williams Jeep Eagle in the back seat

395
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Speaker 3: on the left armrest. There was a small piece of

396
00:23:50,761 --> 00:23:54,201
Speaker 3: reddish orange string entangled in the carpeting. This was entered

397
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Speaker 3: into evidence and cataloged. Investigators also found a pair of

398
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Speaker 3: green hip boots and a pair of camouflage coveralls on

399
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 3: the back floorboard. There was a rust colored vest in

400
00:24:05,121 --> 00:24:07,841
Speaker 3: the back of the car too that had several Western

401
00:24:07,921 --> 00:24:11,241
Speaker 3: number six shotgun shells inside it, as well as a

402
00:24:11,281 --> 00:24:16,561
Speaker 3: plastic container of rifle cartridges. They had found Johnny Williams

403
00:24:16,641 --> 00:24:27,561
Speaker 3: hunting gear. Immediately after Barbara Bryne's body was found. According

404
00:24:27,601 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: to the incident report, police identified the man she had

405
00:24:31,241 --> 00:24:35,041
Speaker 3: been dating a police officer named Johnny Williams as a suspect.

406
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Speaker 1: He admitted that he had been.

407
00:24:37,761 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: In the Tyronza, Arkansas area, in the early morning hours

408
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Speaker 3: of December twelfth. He said that the chief of police,

409
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Speaker 3: Floyd White, could verify this. The problem with that was

410
00:24:48,321 --> 00:24:51,201
Speaker 3: Chief White told police that he had seen Johnny between

411
00:24:51,201 --> 00:24:53,281
Speaker 3: the hours of four thirty and five am, but not

412
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Speaker 3: before that. Floyd White said that he came back to

413
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Speaker 3: the police station at around seven am that morning. He

414
00:25:00,561 --> 00:25:03,321
Speaker 3: said by that time Johnny was gone, but his jeep

415
00:25:03,401 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 3: was still parked in a lot. Then Floyd said he

416
00:25:07,241 --> 00:25:09,521
Speaker 3: left again and came back a second time at eight

417
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Speaker 3: thirty am. He said by that time, both Johnny and

418
00:25:12,601 --> 00:25:17,481
Speaker 3: his vehicle were gone. Floyd said that Johnny did carry

419
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Speaker 3: a gun, a separate gun, presumably from a service revolver,

420
00:25:20,961 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: in a brown carrying case. Johnny admitted that was his

421
00:25:24,721 --> 00:25:31,241
Speaker 3: deer rifle. Police interviewed Johnny. They asked him about Barbara's death,

422
00:25:31,281 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 3: and he openly admitted he knew that because he had

423
00:25:34,001 --> 00:25:36,641
Speaker 3: dated Barbara that police considered him a suspect in the case,

424
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Speaker 3: but Johnny completely denied having anything to do with her death.

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Speaker 3: He said he had a close relationship with her. He

426
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Speaker 3: said they had d for three years and that at

427
00:25:45,001 --> 00:25:48,001
Speaker 3: one point they were very serious. He said he knew

428
00:25:48,121 --> 00:25:50,801
Speaker 3: she was seeing Jerry Shaw. He knew she had a

429
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,481
Speaker 3: date with Jerry on the night she disappeared. Johnny said

430
00:25:54,681 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 3: that on Thursday night he went to Barbara's home, and

431
00:25:57,921 --> 00:25:59,681
Speaker 3: he said that's when he found out she had a

432
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Speaker 3: Friday night date with Jerry.

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Speaker 1: He said that on that.

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00:26:02,681 --> 00:26:05,321
Speaker 3: Thursday evening, prior to the homicide, he had gone to

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00:26:05,361 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 3: Barbara's house in an attempt to catch her coming in

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00:26:08,121 --> 00:26:11,401
Speaker 3: from work. He said he wanted to talk about their relationship,

437
00:26:11,721 --> 00:26:14,001
Speaker 3: but he said he couldn't find Barbara, so he kept

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00:26:14,041 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: looking for her throughout the night. But his story was

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00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,921
Speaker 3: that he never connected with Barbara. This seems to conflict

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00:26:20,961 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: with him telling officers that he found out about the

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00:26:23,161 --> 00:26:26,601
Speaker 3: date with Jerry on Thursday night. I'm not exactly sure

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00:26:26,601 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 3: what the story there is if he's mixing up Thursday

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00:26:28,761 --> 00:26:30,921
Speaker 3: night and Friday night, but it doesn't seem to make

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00:26:30,921 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: any sense. However, he does not get called on it.

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00:26:35,721 --> 00:26:38,081
Speaker 3: Police were very suspicious of Johnny.

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00:26:38,201 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 1: He was jealous.

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00:26:39,321 --> 00:26:41,881
Speaker 3: He was seen driving around in the early morning hours

448
00:26:41,881 --> 00:26:45,321
Speaker 3: of December twelfth, He admitted that he was in Laponto,

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00:26:45,921 --> 00:26:49,281
Speaker 3: the town where Barbara lived, at two thirty am Friday morning,

450
00:26:49,321 --> 00:26:52,641
Speaker 3: looking for Barbara. You also have an officer from Laponto

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00:26:52,921 --> 00:26:56,481
Speaker 3: saying that he saw Johnny driving on Highway one forty

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00:26:56,761 --> 00:27:02,521
Speaker 3: in that area, and Johnny had an alibi another woman

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00:27:02,721 --> 00:27:05,641
Speaker 3: who apparently came to the police department and picked him up.

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00:27:06,161 --> 00:27:07,961
Speaker 3: He said that he spent the rest of the night

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00:27:08,001 --> 00:27:11,521
Speaker 3: with this other woman. This other woman's name was Gay Couch,

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00:27:11,881 --> 00:27:14,361
Speaker 3: and eventually Gay Couch became Gay Williams.

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00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: She and Johnny Williams got married.

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00:27:18,721 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: We requested an officer fitness report on Johnny Williams and

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00:27:22,121 --> 00:27:25,761
Speaker 3: it came back clean. There is no suggestion that Gay

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00:27:25,961 --> 00:27:28,921
Speaker 3: knew anything, by the way, and even if for argument's sake,

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00:27:28,961 --> 00:27:32,561
Speaker 3: she did suspect something, because they were married, she probably

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00:27:32,641 --> 00:27:35,321
Speaker 3: could not be forced to testify against her own husband.

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00:27:35,761 --> 00:27:38,681
Speaker 3: There's nothing on Johnny Williams record, at least publicly, that

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00:27:38,721 --> 00:27:43,241
Speaker 3: would alert anyone to his fellow officer's suspicions about him. Eventually,

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00:27:43,321 --> 00:27:46,521
Speaker 3: Johnny Williams got cancer. He was sick for several years,

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00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,761
Speaker 3: fought back, but then a few months later he developed

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00:27:49,801 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 3: heart problems. He died in twenty ten. He was sixty

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00:27:53,361 --> 00:27:58,321
Speaker 3: three years old. In George Jared's book Whispers in the Willows,

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00:27:58,881 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 3: George mentions that he heard that on his deathbed, Johnny

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00:28:02,241 --> 00:28:06,121
Speaker 3: was questioned again about Amanda Tussing's murder, but denied having

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00:28:06,241 --> 00:28:09,961
Speaker 3: anything to do with it. After he left law enforcement,

472
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,121
Speaker 3: Johnny founded a company called Williams Trucking Company. And by

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00:28:13,161 --> 00:28:15,961
Speaker 3: the way, there are rumors Johnny was fired from law enforcement,

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00:28:16,281 --> 00:28:19,361
Speaker 3: but I can't find any official record of that. As

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00:28:19,401 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 3: we know from this podcast, there are a lot of

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00:28:21,881 --> 00:28:26,801
Speaker 3: instances where departments choose to quietly allow an officer to

477
00:28:26,881 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 3: leave on his own terms so they can avoid the

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00:28:28,641 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 3: bad publicity. But to me, it's terrifying that these members

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00:28:32,121 --> 00:28:35,481
Speaker 3: of law enforcement, who have such an enormous amount of power,

480
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,081
Speaker 3: are out driving around and the public is completely unaware

481
00:28:40,241 --> 00:28:43,841
Speaker 3: of any of these pretty terrifying suspicions that there fell

482
00:28:43,881 --> 00:28:51,481
Speaker 3: officers have about them. Johnny and Gay eventually had children.

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00:28:52,001 --> 00:28:54,841
Speaker 3: They were still married when he died. From what I

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00:28:54,841 --> 00:28:57,841
Speaker 3: can find in public records, it seems as though Barbara

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00:28:57,841 --> 00:29:01,321
Speaker 3: Brian's parents and her brother Gary have all passed away.

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00:29:01,961 --> 00:29:04,921
Speaker 3: So what are we left with? Because there seemed to

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00:29:04,961 --> 00:29:07,361
Speaker 3: be a lot of missing pieces in this case file.

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00:29:07,961 --> 00:29:10,481
Speaker 3: For example, I never saw any mention of testing those

489
00:29:10,481 --> 00:29:11,601
Speaker 3: fingerprints from the car.

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00:29:11,681 --> 00:29:13,361
Speaker 1: Again. I never found.

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00:29:13,081 --> 00:29:16,081
Speaker 3: Any interviews with Jerry Shaw, the man Barbara was dating.

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00:29:16,921 --> 00:29:20,001
Speaker 3: It seems like everyone kind of forgot about Barbara's case,

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00:29:20,521 --> 00:29:23,281
Speaker 3: but we haven't. I want to see if we can

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00:29:23,361 --> 00:29:27,561
Speaker 3: uncover more information about these police officers who may have

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00:29:27,641 --> 00:29:28,281
Speaker 3: thought their.

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00:29:28,161 --> 00:29:29,481
Speaker 1: Secrets were buried forever.

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00:29:30,361 --> 00:29:33,761
Speaker 3: Barbara Bran, Amanda Tussing, and all the other victims whose

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00:29:33,761 --> 00:29:37,881
Speaker 3: bodies were found along random strips of Arkansas roads deserve that.

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Speaker 3: I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen

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00:29:46,521 --> 00:29:48,561
Speaker 3: Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans

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00:29:48,601 --> 00:29:51,961
Speaker 3: and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine

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00:29:52,001 --> 00:29:56,081
Speaker 3: Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts and Miranda Hawkins. Music

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00:29:56,081 --> 00:29:59,321
Speaker 3: contributed by Ben Solee. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for

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00:29:59,361 --> 00:30:03,121
Speaker 3: her research assistance. Noah Camer mixed and scored this episode.

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00:30:03,801 --> 00:30:07,361
Speaker 3: Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley.

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Speaker 3: Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the

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00:30:10,321 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. You can

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00:30:13,481 --> 00:30:16,761
Speaker 3: follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. If

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00:30:16,801 --> 00:30:18,481
Speaker 3: you have a case you'd let me and my team

510
00:30:18,481 --> 00:30:20,601
Speaker 3: to look into, you can reach out to us at

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Speaker 3: our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven

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Speaker 3: four four six one four five that six seven eight

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Speaker 3: seven four four six' one four Five

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Speaker 2: School Of humans