WEBVTT - Greg Daniels - Pt. 3 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:15.600 Hi. I'm Greg Daniels. I was the showrunner of the Office. Hello, 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:22.600 Hello everybody, Thank you for diving in to another episode 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:25.919 of the Office Deep Dive. See what I did there. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.920 I am your host, Brian baumb Gartner, and I am 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:34.320 so thankful that you are here. Yes, for those of 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:39.640 you listening in real time. It is Thanksgiving week here 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.519 in the States, and I love this time of year truly. 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:49.520 The Crisp Air, my birthday, the fall Leaves, my birthday, Football, 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:54.880 it is the best, all right. And as I mentioned 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:59.120 last week, working on this podcast with some of my 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.960 favorite people and the whole entire world has just been well, 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.640 it's hard to put into words, but it is definitely 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:12.720 the thing that I am most thankful for this Thanksgiving 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:17.840 my family aside, of course, but know this, my podcast, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:23.640 this podcast, it has truly changed my life. And the 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:28.200 other thing that, without question has changed my life. Who 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:33.280 I'm so thankful to be talking to today is our showrunner, 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:43.560 Greg Daniels. His brilliance, his mentorship, his general aura of greatness. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.640 I am just so happy and feel so blessed that 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.240 this man is a part of my life. So I'm 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.440 going to bring you today the last part of my 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.640 conversation with Greg. As you know, he was the creator 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.280 of the Office, and he has gone on to make 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.160 Parks and Wreck and Upload and Space Force and so 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:10.040 much more. He also wrote the foreword of our new book, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.760 Welcome to dunder Mifflin, So if you get a chance, 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.840 go check that out. But it was important for me 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:21.040 that on this week of giving thanks, that I give 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:27.560 thanks to my boss of almost a decade. And while 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:34.840 famously Michael Scott was the world's best boss, everything he 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:39.640 knew he learned from Greg Daniels. Is that a compliment? 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.520 I don't know, but anyway, give it up for the 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:51.919 best boss on the entire planet the galaxy, the incomparable 0:02:52.600 --> 0:03:05.600 Greg Daniels. Love it bubble and squeak bubble and squeaker 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:21.320 cookie at every moment. Lift over from the nut people. Okay, well, 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.280 here's kind of a fun one. So you worked with um, 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:32.720 Steve Carrell, Yeah, John Krasinski, Rain Wilson, and well myself 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.560 and um I've heard it has been said that your 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:42.280 favorite actor of all time is Paul Aberstein. Paul is 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.600 very good. I mean, I'm certainly not gonna say anything 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.000 negative about Paul. I don't want to rank you guys, 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.920 I don't think that's fair. But Paul is like it 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.840 didn't expect him to be so good. You know, he 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.680 basically just filled in at the table read in season one, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.080 and Kevin would go to the table reads and Paul 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.280 got laughs and Kevin was like, what happened to that 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.240 guy with the red hair? You know? Put him in 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.280 more And that's how he got on the show pretty much. 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:12.080 But he always had an interesting attitude about it. And 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:16.240 you know, Paul is like a jazz vibraphonist. Uh and 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.719 I feel like something about that jazz timing was in 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.039 his performance and was like a little bit unusual. Yeah, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:25.720 I know he's great, but I don't I don't want 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.480 to say like, uh, anybody's better than anybody else. Why 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:34.080 why did you? Why did you choose Paul and Jen 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.479 to run the show after when when you left to 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:42.719 go to Parks. Well, Um, the interesting thing about making 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.159 the writer's performers is that that kind of bites you 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.640 a little bit. Like season one, we wrote all the scripts, 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.599 we shot all the shows, and then I went into 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.039 editing and just did full time editing. And that was 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.640 great because you could be physically presented everything it was 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:04.960 really on. And that was when you know, Paul became 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.320 a character, Mindy became a character. B J was always 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.120 a character, and there was no downside to that. Season 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.120 two we start and then those guys go off to 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.400 the set and I'm suddenly looking around. I've got like 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.680 half the staff, you know, I got Mike and Jen 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.719 and Lee Jean, and that's it. Everybody else is on set, 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.240 you know. And then they'd show up and they obviously 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.040 still did great stuff and wrote great episodes and everything, 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:30.840 but there were times when the room was a little 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:35.520 bit thin because they were acting and Mike was a 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:40.200 very mature, full package, like he could produce, he could write, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.840 and he wasn't one of the main characters. And I 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.880 also felt very much responsible to the cast and to Steve, 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.400 and if Steve was not going to go do movies 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.360 and bug out and was going to stick with it, 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.479 I didn't want to be the guy who was, you know, 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.520 gonna do something to detriment the show, right, So I 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.680 didn't want to haven't be like, oh, you can't find 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:03.960 me into your pall on set because they're doing a 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.720 spin off or whatever, and it and I guess Mike 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.080 could worked there for four years, and he was gonna 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.120 go anyway, do you know what I mean. It's not 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.159 like he was gonna put the rest of his career 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.560 working there. He was pretty icious and headed places. So 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.520 I felt like he would be a good choice to 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.120 do it because I could set it up with him 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.080 and then he could run it and I could still 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:32.240 see the office throom. So and we had different ideas, 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:36.320 like the Parks is the idea of Okay, it's mockumentary. 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.840 Instead of being about business and the private sector, it's 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.640 about the public sector. But at the same time, I 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.080 had an idea that I thought was good, which was 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:52.360 all right, workplace is a good genre of TV comedy, 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.839 But an even bigger genre is family show. What about 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.599 a mockumentary about a family show? And and I had 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.599 a plan after Mike was going to spin off and 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.400 do Parks, I was going to do a show with 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:11.720 Jen and we were going to do the family sitcom 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.480 one And we had worked it out ed Helms was 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.520 gonna maybe be the lead with Catherine Tate as his wife, 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.120 and they were, and it was going to be the 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.440 mockumentary looking at a cul de sac, some kind of 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.240 suburban cul de Sac and then Modern Family came out 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.720 and you know, it was huge hit that kind of 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:34.560 put the end too that plan, right, Mike Sure said 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.800 about being asked to go and develop Parks and rec 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.680 they basically said that it feels like, um, Mozart told 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:48.320 me he wants to design a piano with me. It's 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:53.000 not Steinway Mozart both are designing a piano. Let's are 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.560 very incompetent piano maker. Yeah, but still somebody who probably 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.800 should follow. But yeah, that's cool, that's nice. Yeah, it was. 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.800 It was certainly fun to do Parks. I mean we 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.040 you know, we're so close to the Office that we 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.720 thought Parks was just completely different. I mean like we 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.680 I didn't see it as having any bearing it all 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:17.880 on the office, Like we got a female and it's 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.720 a completely you know, a different world and everything. And 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.960 of course, in the same way like it took season 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.600 one to be able to get free of the English show, 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.200 you know, like season one, Parks was too close probably 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.040 still and I think we figured that out. We didn't 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:39.240 have a pilot because Ben was now running NBC and 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.120 Ben hooked us straight to series for Parks, and so 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.360 by the time we looked at the footage of the pilot. 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.520 We already shooting episode three or something from Parks, but 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.200 we kind of steered it around. Part of it was 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:59.440 I remember thinking, like, Okay, it's not all about a 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:04.080 crazy central character. It's more like thirty Rock maybe, where 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:09.040 the central character is surrounded by crazy and like when 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.720 we kind of made that adjustment, it seemed to work better. 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.080 But but Amy is like very different from Steve. She's 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:19.360 a different type of performer in what way. Well, like 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:23.240 I don't think she can hide her intelligence. Like one 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:29.040 of to me, one of Steve's um real gifts is 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.920 you can stare at his face and he's doing something 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:38.199 really stupid and you can't tell that he is aware 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.600 that is stupid, you know what I mean. He completely 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:44.720 hides his intelligence. And Amy probably could if she wanted to, 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.160 but chooses not to, and she just she doesn't hide it. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.560 And I think maybe it's also being a woman, you 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.640 know what I mean. It's like it means something different 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:57.240 to hide your intelligence. It's more retro and you know, uncool, 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.600 probably to hide your intelligence as a woman. So it 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.520 didn't fit great to have her play naive. She had 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:08.320 to be a little smarter. What do you think was 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:20.199 the bigger loss, Michael or Steve. Huh wow, Oh yeah, well, um, 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.120 I do think that when we said goodbye to Steve, 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.079 it became really clear how much the crew loved him, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.520 and the stories from different crew members was really sweet. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.439 I mean, I remember like when forty year old Virgin 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.000 was still in theaters and he was the biggest movie 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.520 star in the country and we were shooting I think 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.360 the Dundee's, and um, we were in a parking lot 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.840 like of a defunct Black Angus. It's two or three 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.440 in the morning, and his entire role is to drive 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.559 the car away from Jenna after saying his line. And 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.199 he's doing it at three in the morning, take after 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:08.360 take after take to support her in that scene where 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.400 so many people would have been like, yeah, you put 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.600 the photo double in goodbye, And I'm doing a show 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.559 with him now. I'm doing Space Force with him now, 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.640 and he's number one on the call sheet. Same deal. 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:19.720 We just had our rap party. The crew came up 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:21.920 to me. They were all like, it starts at the top. 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.559 The vibe on the set is so beautiful and everybody's 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.560 you know, such a great feeling and and everything, but 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.680 you know, one of the things that I got out 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.880 of working with Steve was like I didn't really have 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.880 an improv background, you know what I mean, Like I 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:44.000 had come from Sketch Comedy and then Simpson's. And when 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.040 we started working together, he told me about this book 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.800 Truth and Comedy, which is kind of like the bible 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.960 of the Chicago improv world, and I found that to 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.280 be really the key to kind of how he worked 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.559 and it saved us a bunch of times. When one 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.480 of my favorite memories of Steve as a producer or 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.760 as a you know, not as an actor, is we 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:12.240 were doing Dundee's and the problem was we went to 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.640 Black Angus and then we went to Chili's restaurant, and 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.160 we didn't actually get any money for it. You know, 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:20.520 it's not like what they paid us a lot of 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.240 money to use Chili's. What they did was they sent 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:28.040 us their branded decorations for set deck. So we say, yeah, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.240 we've got the menus and we got some signs and stuff. Anyway, 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.560 so we're there. We're at this defunct Black Angus for 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.000 three days shooting with all the Chili stuff, and like 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:42.240 on day two, the Chili's lawyers call and they go oh, hey, 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.880 we just looked at the script, the part where Pam 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.439 is so drunk she throws up. That's not gonna work 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:53.600 for us. We're being sued for overserving patrons and we 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.400 can't that's a bad look, So you can't do that. 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.440 And I was like cocky at this point. I was like, yeah, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.680 well we're shot two thirds of our shoot, you know. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.400 And I turned to the Universal executives and I was like, well, 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.800 check the contract with the Chilis because obviously you know, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.319 they don't have editorial control. And they're like, uh, there's 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.320 no contract. There's no written contract. We just thought we'd 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.480 say fifty thou dollars of set deck and we just 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.880 did it on a handshake. So then we were like, well, wait, wait, wait, wait, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.000 what do we do? What do we do? And they 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.640 were like, well, you don't have to take that note, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.200 but in that case, you can't show any of the 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.640 branded set decoration that we sent you, which meant that 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.160 we would have had to shoot go back to the 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.319 beginning and not used the two days that we already shot, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.360 which we couldn't afford right because it was hundreds of 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.640 thousands of dollars. So I was like getting ill in 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.800 the corner freaking out, and Steve notices and it's like, 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.680 what's up. And I told them the situation and the 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.520 thing that was so cool to me was this improv thing, 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.880 like he had utter faith always that he would his 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.120 creativity would never flag, that he would be able to 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.040 find an answer when it was necessary, Like that's what 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.920 all that improv training was. And I completely shut down. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:08.840 I was like going to blow my brains out, and 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.360 he was like, okay, all right, well, all right, and 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.800 then he came up with this notion of the manager 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.080 being interviewed and saying that Pam had a lifetime band 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.240 from Chili's and it solved everything. And I really was like, huh, 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.040 that's a different way to live than I'm used to. 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.680 You know, the overthinker doesn't doesn't do that right. I 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.680 had all my plans had just been thrown for a loop, 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:35.680 and uh so I feel like I tried take that away. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.280 I think it's like a little bit of a religion 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:58.760 for him to be an improv guy. What do you 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:03.040 remember about because you obviously you came back for Goodbye 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.640 my call Um, How did you feel writing him off? 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.400 I mean, did you did you feel like the show 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:14.560 was going to should go on past him. Um, yeah, 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.720 I did, because you know, part of the painful part 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:24.200 of my job is as the showrunner, you're not done 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.040 when the rap right. You've got to go edit all 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.000 of the things. So, like at least the third maybe more, 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.960 my job was sitting with the editors cutting the show 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.200 down and it then it made a huge difference in 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.520 our show because our rough cuts were thirty eight minutes 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:42.600 long and we had to get down to three or whatever. So, um, 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.520 that's an enormous amount to throw out, and it was 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.720 very painful because we could get the show down to 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.720 twenty six minutes or something with with just cutting the fat, 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.720 but then after that you got to cut the muscle. 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.520 You know, there's good scenes that are not going to 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.320 be brought cast. And you know, once we got five 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.200 or six years into the show, the full ensemble was 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:10.600 really working and capable of doing really good stuff. And 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:15.280 so the best argument to me to continue was it 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.760 would let all these people who didn't have as much 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.360 screen time have more screen time. And Steve didn't obviously 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.920 didn't want us to shut down, so I kind of 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:25.920 felt like it was it was good that we would 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:32.520 do Okay, Now, the difficulty is that people are not 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.160 created to be leads and you know, all that stuff 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.960 that I was saying the beginning of positioning Steve in 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:43.240 in season two and finding you know, ways that he 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.120 has good intentions and is more of a lead and everything. 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:53.600 Like I knew the Dwight had been created to be 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.720 the foil to these people and was a charactery creation 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.120 to begin with. Andy Bernard was created to be the 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:09.000 Stanford version of Dwight, you know, in season three, like, uh, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.680 you know, Jim shows up in Stanford and he's got 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.840 this weirdo who's like a preppy weirdo, like a different 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.439 type of weirdo, and um and well and also he 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:24.600 was an idiot, like unlike Dwight, who you know, Dwight 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:26.800 was an idiot in his own way, but I mean, 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.359 like sorry bad at his job, Like he had been 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.639 positioned as being not good at his job. He was 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.200 not very good at his job. He punched holes in walls. 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.280 You know, he would have needed a lot of the 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.280 same kind of moving the character over that we did 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.080 in season two, and I believe Paul was doing that 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.880 with Andy, but it was different because we were everybody 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.639 was paying close attention to the show at that point, 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.119 so there was definitely a lot of like, there was 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.159 a lot of for some reason. The thing with the 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.600 Office is like people get super into it obviously, which 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.119 is great, but then there's then there's so much attention 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.720 and worry about changing it or touching it or you know, 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:10.439 don't touch my my beloved thing. Right. So in the 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.880 same way there was all this negative attention about adapting 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.000 the British show. I think that there was a lot of, 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.760 you know, worry about making any changes to it, right. Well, 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.520 but I think you you think of the Office right 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.080 as this place of stasis, right, and we're all there 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.520 in one room, and there's the whole bullpen and everybody's 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.080 there all the time, and it's all the same. But 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.080 I think one of the special things that you did 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:39.200 was you created sort of a kinetic energy by changing, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.720 by constantly changing it and not keeping it the same. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.520 Bringing in the Stanford Branch and Ed and Rashida or 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.760 Jenna leaving and going to art school or so much 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.919 of that was being driven by Pam and Jim and 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.680 the romantic storyline and the way those two characters were 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:01.600 set up. They were soul mates. And what I didn't 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:07.639 want to do was, like so many shows, they come together, 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.720 they break apart, they come together, they break apart. You know, 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.480 it didn't seem real. I felt like, when they finally 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.640 get together, they're going to be together. I don't see 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.600 anything breaking them up. So then the question was, well, 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.720 how do you spend this out for a certain number 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:24.800 of years? Right? So? Um, you know, so a lot 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.359 of it was what are the obstacles? And we you know, 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.320 when I was trying to figure out what came next 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.840 in the show, I didn't have an entire season broken. 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.199 I would be able to have about a half a 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:43.600 season arked out. And the thought with Pam and Jim was, okay, 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:48.200 you know season one, she's obviously with Roy. Well, actually 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.440 season one there the only kind of thing was he 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.320 was obviously pining, and then he starts dating first girl, 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.920 right right. So season two she's with Roy and he's 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.679 getting closer and close short to confessing his feelings and 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.680 he rolls the dice. And you always feel like when 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.720 you're watching a TV show, we're worry about the yank, 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:10.760 you know, that's what we call it in the writer's 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:15.199 room where the Jeopardy of the episode is something you 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.040 don't really believe because it would change the show. You know, 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.960 like you don't really believe like Rain is going to 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.760 go work for Staples. Why it's going to leave the show. 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.399 It's like, no, he's too important to the show. You're 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.720 not gonna set him to the Staples. So we set 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.280 up the situation where Jim was like, well, maybe I 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:34.520 should take that job in Stanford, and um, we were 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.280 like us, that a yank. I don't know, We're worried, 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.240 is that a yank? And then we were like, let's 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.120 let's put him in Stanford, you know, let's really make 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.800 it happen, and that'll give us a whole new lease 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.480 on the Jim Pam thing because it's a new obstacle. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:50.959 And that cooled it off a lot. And then by 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.479 the time he finally came back, he had Karen and 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.000 that gave us another thing. And then around the like 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.840 Beach Games area, the obstacle was Okay, the obstacle is 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.199 now Pam. It's in Pam's court. She wants to be 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.280 with Jim, but she's too timid, and so then she 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.159 walks on the fire and we were like kind of 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.240 got past that obstacle and then eventually was like, well, 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.880 I can't see any more obstacles. Got to get it together, 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.760 and get them together sooner, like slightly sooner than the 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.520 audience thinks, so that you could preserve you know, a 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.600 surprise to it. Uh yeah, so, but that drove an 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.760 awful lot of the changes and bringing people in and everything. 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.960 Another thing that was super unique about what you did, 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.000 and I remember you talking about it when it was 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.760 going on, but that you wanted the episodes to air 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.000 roughly when they were happening, right, So it's obvious every 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.760 network just show Christmas around Christmas time or whatever, but 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.080 that it was happening sort of within the calendar year, 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.000 and that you chose to keep the form and the 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.840 format of each episode is one day. It takes place 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:58.760 over one day, and in the summer, the camera crew 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.040 goes on their holiday and their vacation and they're not there, 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.600 so we don't see it as opposed to Ross and 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.560 Rachel kissing and then four months passing and the next 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.720 moment is the same moment that we left with, because 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.280 the audience now has to work and find out what happened. 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:19.680 What happened? Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:24.760 that that was um, you know that that works well. Uh, 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.719 I mean obviously Friends did good too, Oh I know, 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.320 but that was a conscious decision for you that it 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:32.760 was important that it seemed real. And again also like 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.760 if you're going to try and stay in the pace, 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:39.480 you got to catch up over the summer somehow. I 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:41.240 mean we did it with weight loss. We we did 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:45.600 a different type thing, yes, but yeah, I don't know. 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:47.639 I mean it helped with the storytelling to jump a 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:50.439 little bit, because the other thing is like, with the 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:56.000 Office being so realistic, sometimes it is hard to do 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:58.359 a restart or to jump and you sometimes you have 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:00.560 to shoot down ideas because you're like, well, how did 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:04.960 they get there from yesterday? So sometimes a little uh 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.720 time jump is really good for that, right, why did 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:18.960 you come back? Well, two questions and two questions one. Um, 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.480 the Office has a beginning, a middle, and an end, 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:25.359 and it was my belief that you knew fairly early 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:27.600 what that end was going to be. Well, it did 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:31.280 shift though, because like my idea for the end in 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:34.919 the beginning was like around season two, I had this 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:37.240 idea that you know, I was a big fan first 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:39.520 of all, I love documentaries and I was a big 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:42.920 fan of seven Up. If you remember that one, well 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:48.000 seven Up changes every seven years. It was fourteen up up. 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.399 And what it is is they are following a group 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.760 of British seven year olds. This is guy Michael Appted 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:57.959 and and he's been doing it. They just did like 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:00.720 sixty nine up or something. Okay, that's that's how old 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:04.000 the segmentary is. They're following these guys for every stage 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:07.720 of their life. And um, I think that is like 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:12.000 a reality show thing too, of like, oh, it's Survivor 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:15.440 Survivors over and let's get them together on a stage 0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:19.080 and see what happened. And I thought, well, this is cool, right, 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.120 we could get them together on a stage and you 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:25.800 think that it didn't work out for certain things that 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:29.679 you want, but the documentary is still filming. Things are 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:31.920 going to happen backstage at the wrap up. That was 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:35.520 kind of my notion was that I would provide an 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:39.480 unhappy ending for Jim and Pam in the last episode 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:41.399 that looked like the series, and then I would do 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:43.119 the wrap up and I'd have a happy ending at 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:45.439 the wrap up something like that. Anyway, this is the 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.560